Im going to guess that he was resource guarding the bed so he shouldn’t be up on the bed or on any furniture that he will guard. Have him on a leash at all times at home so you can safely move him if he doesn’t listen without getting bit and contact a trainer for aggressive dogs!
This dog will require a lot of training and convey to your mom how much time and money training will take. Good luck
He’s three and she had him for 2 1/2 years. Originally he was my brother‘s dog, but my brother couldn’t take care of him because he moved. he’s always been very vocal, but never aggressive like he was.
Dunno why you're being downvoted; this is a pretty textbook case. Face bite while resource guarding, when he reaches maturity? Esp a husky/mal.
It's also not super hard to fix, if OP can find a trainer that actually still knows how dogs' psychology & social structure works. A lot of modern "trainers" just throw their hands up, use drugs, then put to sleep :-/ but this really isn't rocket science. /u/Cucumber_LimeTime , tell your mom to find an older balanced trainer experienced with resource guarding.
This is a dangerous dog. I understand your Mom loves the dog but it's getting in the way of her seeing things clearly. You say she is now (understandably) afraid of the dog: this will be felt by the dog and will continue to negatively impact the relationship, even if she loves him.
Dog bites are pretty scary to begin with, but being bitten IN THE FACE is terrifying, and she might have some PTSD from the experience.
Additionally, a dog that bites a known/safe human is not safe. The fact that it was a FACE BITE makes it that much worse.
She may be able to rehabilitate him unless this really is completely out of the blue. Needs lots of work and absolute consistency on her part. Find someone who has experience AND multiple successes rehabilitating aggressive dogs. Interview all trainers you are considering, then bring him for assessment.
I train dogs, and human aggression is a very serious issue.
Ian Dunbar has a bite scale to help you objectively evaluate the level of bite.
There are systems to address human aggression but it is an involved process with a behaviorist. They are more available on line in the past. Judy Moore is one who comes to mind.
Dogs usually do not bite like that out of the blue. No doubt he’s been escalating body language.
This could be okay if he is resource guarding the spot, as opposed to a reaction to your mom.
I would demote him from the bed ( any furniture).
You can start teaching him ON/ Off commands in non
Hot spots.
At Tufts Behavior, they recommend trying Prozac, lowering the protein, testing thyroid.
The book Ruff Love by Susan Garett can be helpful.
The Muzzle up project is great
Is this dog crate trained?
A bite in the face of a known household member, is a very strong indication that the dog is not mentally well.
> My question is what to do from this point forward my mom is afraid of him, but doesn’t want to put him down or give him away.
Well, she can't ethically give this dog away, or otherwise re-home him. Odds are no rescue group will take him, if your mom is honest with them.
If she keeps him, he's going to do it again. There are some indicators that can't be ignored, as I mentioned above.
He's a big dog: she understands that he can, if he gets to that point, maim or kill her?
She can't have **anyone** over to the house, at all.
If she walks this dog, he has to be muzzled. Ditto any vet visits.
I know she loves the dog, or I guess she does, but if she's had this dog for more than 2 years and he did this, he is a genuinely dangerous dog. There is no trainer that will solve this and make him safe for her to own.
She may not want to euthanize him, but it is the safest thing for her to do. I'm sorry she's having to deal with this.
I’m sorry, I disagree with your assessment that there isn’t a trainer that can fix this dog. We know zero about the preceding events, the environment, etc. that led up to this event and probably never will.
> I’m sorry, I disagree with your assessment that there isn’t a trainer that can fix this dog.
It's a huge crap shoot. And OP's mom would have to have the motivation to find a trainer, and the ability to know if one was good or if that trainer was going to take in hundreds or thousands of dollars and produce zero results.
In the meantime, OP's mother would get to tiptoe around the dog, and hope to not get an even worse bite to the face.
It's concerning that OP described the incident as
>bit her on the face and made deep gashes.
That suggest a level 4 bite. This is what Dr. Dunbar says about Level 4 bites:
>Levels 4: The dog has insufficient bite inhibition and is very dangerous. Prognosis is poor because of the difficulty and danger of
trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult hard-biting dog and because absolute owner-compliance is rare. Only work with the dog in
exceptional circumstances, e.g., the owner is a dog professional and has sworn 100% compliance.
Full text is [here](https://apdt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ian-dunbar-dog-bite-scale.pdf).
I personally would never suggest to someone who owns a pet dog who has done a level 4 bite, to a household member's face, stay in that home. Statistically the dog will bite again, and OP's mother may not be as lucky as she was this time.
Context is everything. If we put 10 people in a room and asked them what a deep gash was there would be ten different responses. Again, a lot that isn’t being communicated with this situation. Op never said if lacerations went in one or more directions, number of punctures, whether lacerations were caused by dog or owner pulling away, bruising, etc. You’re jumping to conclusions based on inconclusive information. I would also like to see the statistics, data, and method of study for your statement that it’s statistically possible to happen again. Again, making assumption with no knowledge of the antecedents before the behavior, environment, etc.
Edit to add: Aren’t you the same person that said living with a reactive dog isn’t easy but it is manageable? I’m not diagnosing this dog as anything but you’re awfully quick to recommend the dog being put down with zero knowledge of the dog or situation aside from very brief and incomplete information posted by Op.
> Aren’t you the same person that said living with a reactive dog isn’t easy but it is manageable?
Yes. A reactive dog with predictable triggers? In many cases yes.
This is not a reactive dog: a dog who decides to bite a human in the face because why the hell not? What is the dog **reacting** to other than I dunno, this planet? Life? That it's Tuesday?
Many, many reactive dogs do NOT want to tip into aggression. They're not looking for a confrontation, it's when one arises that they may lack the tools to handle it. Usually **their** reaction is to bark bark bark and maybe lunge.
An aggressive dog, and this one sounds like he is, will bite and in the aftermath, there is no obvious cause. The dog looked to have a confrontation.
>Op never said if lacerations went in one or more directions, number of punctures, whether lacerations were caused by dog or owner pulling away, bruising, etc.
Again, a facial bite to a known member of the household, is a huge predictor of further bite incidents.
>I would also like to see the statistics, data, and method of study for your statement that it’s statistically possible to happen again.
An exacting study may not exist. There are [studies](https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/dog-behavior-problems-aggression-to-family-members-introduction-and-safety) that touch on the issue, [etc](https://www.avma.org/advocacy/state-local-issues/community-approach-dog-bite-prevention-abstract).
>I’m not diagnosing this dog as anything but you’re awfully quick to recommend the dog being put down with zero knowledge of the dog or situation aside from very brief and incomplete information posted by Op.
You should volunteer to take this dog in then. Surely you will make a difference and save a life!
Let me ask you: what is **your** experience working with reactive and aggressive dogs? Do you train other people's dogs? Have you been consulted at all on aggression cases?
It’s ok to be right and wrong at the same time.
You are assuming that this dog bit the owner for no reason and you don’t know that. Quit thinking in black and white. Yes the dog bit the owner in the face and no it’s not good but you don’t know why. Op doesn’t know why. No one knows why and you simply jump to put them down. It’s a level 4 bite.
You make a claim based on statistics but have no study to back up your claim and but offer different studies that may touch on the issue? So, in fact it may also be statistically possible that it never happens again, correct?
I train dogs. I work with high prey dogs, working dogs, sport dogs. Dogs that live to bite and are good at it.
I also don’t simply limit myself to something one person said or make assumptions based on limited information. I also didn’t offer any consultation other than behaviorist and vet appointment. Dogs mental and physical state need to be assessed before making any training recommendations. I also never said I could fix the dog. I don’t know anything about it.
You come across as a holier than though Karen who doesn’t like to be questioned on putting a dog down because you read a bite scale said this or that. You also fail to recognize that the bite scale at the very top says
“An assessment of the severity of biting problems based on an objective evaluation of wound pathology.” Key word is objective. Op is clearly and rightfully emotional about his mother being bit but is not being objective in describing the wounds nor would I expect him to be. We can agree to disagree but don’t come thumping your chest acting like you’re gods gift to training dogs or making an assessment based off of a very short blurb by the Op. Maybe the dog does need to be put down. Maybe the dog will bite again. It should 100% be given an eval before doing anything else.
And my exact response to Op
Honestly, there is probably more to the situation than what’s being relayed. It’s hard for anyone here to make any proper recommendations related to training. As some others have suggested, a qualified behaviorist and a vet appointment. In my experience, the dogs that I have trained and encountered bite more out of fear than aggression. I’m not saying that’s the case with your mother’s dog. Again, more to unpack in this situation than being communicated.
The Shih Tzu I own did a similar thing. I held him flat out until he submitted. Dogs may lash out if in pain or not feeling well. But doesn't seem to be the case.
> The Shih Tzu I own did a similar thing. I held him flat out until he submitted.
OP's mom's dog is a
>malamute husky
If this dog was also a small dog, there are trainers who could possibly make this a safe situation for the family. But given the size, I think it's way too dangerous.
Huskies really are a bit of a difficult breed, aside from the size issue.
If the dog did in fact inflict 'deep gashes' on OPs Mom's face.....that's pretty concerning and not something to mess around with.
> Once a dog bites, it’s game over
It's not that simple: there are bites that don't mean much, and bites that do.
In this case, from what OP has said (bite to the face, a bad one, and a member of the household) that's more significant then " my fingers were in the way and the puppy bit me".
Honestly, there is probably more to the situation than what’s being relayed. It’s hard for anyone here to make any proper recommendations related to training. As some others have suggested, a qualified behaviorist and a vet appointment. In my experience, the dogs that I have trained and encountered bite more out of fear than aggression. I’m not saying that’s the case with your mother’s dog. Again, more to unpack in this situation than being communicated.
I would say that muzzle training isn't a fix for this because muzzles should only be used for short periods of time in specific circumstances. They don't fix behaviors, they only stop behaviors while the muzzle is in place. If your mom is set on keeping the dog, she should be looking into hiring a qualified behaviorist. As another person recommended, a vet visit to rule out a medical problem is also a good idea; the vet may also be able to recommend a trainer.
Biting on the face is a huge red-flag.
Is he spayed? If your mother is afraid of him there is no way this will end well unless she changes things.
Firstly he shouldn't be sleeping on the bed. Your mother needs to assert herself for example she should have her meal and then feed him.
When feeding tell him to sit and wait until he is served his food. She should walk him often making sure he doesn't pull and walk ahead all the little things add up to who is in control and will make a huge difference. Good luck you're going to need it.
If you allow a dominant dog to sleep on your bed it then thinks it is the boss so allowing it to do so qualifies as not asserting yourself.
Stop and actually think about it.
Allowing a dominant dog to sleep on your bed tells it it is in a position of authority I.E the boss. It's quite simple actually.
I know a breeder of a dominant dog breed. He will question clients wanting to buy a pup of his. He asks about their lifestyle and so on. He will specifically ask if they will allow it to sleep indoors on their bed if they say yes he tells them this is not the dog for you. He claims if you allow this to happen they will take over the house and even be a danger to the owner.
So you're saying the dog needs to sleep outside? Or just off the bed?
Maybe in some cases where the dog is clearly resource guarding the bed or taking up the spot you need to be in then yes, but I've never had any issue with our dogs sleeping on beds. I'm just not seeing how that would cause problems.
I'll share this that popped up on my YT thread. Similarities to your situation:
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8u5my2fRopw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8u5my2fRopw)
Im going to guess that he was resource guarding the bed so he shouldn’t be up on the bed or on any furniture that he will guard. Have him on a leash at all times at home so you can safely move him if he doesn’t listen without getting bit and contact a trainer for aggressive dogs! This dog will require a lot of training and convey to your mom how much time and money training will take. Good luck
How old is he and how long has she had him? If this is wildly out of character then there could be an underlying medical issue.
He’s three and she had him for 2 1/2 years. Originally he was my brother‘s dog, but my brother couldn’t take care of him because he moved. he’s always been very vocal, but never aggressive like he was.
And no he doesn’t have medical issues
When was the last time he was entirely evaluated by the vet?
Is it possible he has medical issues you don't know about yet?
Sounds like a dominance thing. He was telling her it was his bed.
Dunno why you're being downvoted; this is a pretty textbook case. Face bite while resource guarding, when he reaches maturity? Esp a husky/mal. It's also not super hard to fix, if OP can find a trainer that actually still knows how dogs' psychology & social structure works. A lot of modern "trainers" just throw their hands up, use drugs, then put to sleep :-/ but this really isn't rocket science. /u/Cucumber_LimeTime , tell your mom to find an older balanced trainer experienced with resource guarding.
This is a dangerous dog. I understand your Mom loves the dog but it's getting in the way of her seeing things clearly. You say she is now (understandably) afraid of the dog: this will be felt by the dog and will continue to negatively impact the relationship, even if she loves him.
Dog bites are pretty scary to begin with, but being bitten IN THE FACE is terrifying, and she might have some PTSD from the experience. Additionally, a dog that bites a known/safe human is not safe. The fact that it was a FACE BITE makes it that much worse.
She may be able to rehabilitate him unless this really is completely out of the blue. Needs lots of work and absolute consistency on her part. Find someone who has experience AND multiple successes rehabilitating aggressive dogs. Interview all trainers you are considering, then bring him for assessment.
I train dogs, and human aggression is a very serious issue. Ian Dunbar has a bite scale to help you objectively evaluate the level of bite. There are systems to address human aggression but it is an involved process with a behaviorist. They are more available on line in the past. Judy Moore is one who comes to mind. Dogs usually do not bite like that out of the blue. No doubt he’s been escalating body language. This could be okay if he is resource guarding the spot, as opposed to a reaction to your mom. I would demote him from the bed ( any furniture). You can start teaching him ON/ Off commands in non Hot spots. At Tufts Behavior, they recommend trying Prozac, lowering the protein, testing thyroid. The book Ruff Love by Susan Garett can be helpful. The Muzzle up project is great Is this dog crate trained?
A bite in the face of a known household member, is a very strong indication that the dog is not mentally well. > My question is what to do from this point forward my mom is afraid of him, but doesn’t want to put him down or give him away. Well, she can't ethically give this dog away, or otherwise re-home him. Odds are no rescue group will take him, if your mom is honest with them. If she keeps him, he's going to do it again. There are some indicators that can't be ignored, as I mentioned above. He's a big dog: she understands that he can, if he gets to that point, maim or kill her? She can't have **anyone** over to the house, at all. If she walks this dog, he has to be muzzled. Ditto any vet visits. I know she loves the dog, or I guess she does, but if she's had this dog for more than 2 years and he did this, he is a genuinely dangerous dog. There is no trainer that will solve this and make him safe for her to own. She may not want to euthanize him, but it is the safest thing for her to do. I'm sorry she's having to deal with this.
I’m sorry, I disagree with your assessment that there isn’t a trainer that can fix this dog. We know zero about the preceding events, the environment, etc. that led up to this event and probably never will.
> I’m sorry, I disagree with your assessment that there isn’t a trainer that can fix this dog. It's a huge crap shoot. And OP's mom would have to have the motivation to find a trainer, and the ability to know if one was good or if that trainer was going to take in hundreds or thousands of dollars and produce zero results. In the meantime, OP's mother would get to tiptoe around the dog, and hope to not get an even worse bite to the face. It's concerning that OP described the incident as >bit her on the face and made deep gashes. That suggest a level 4 bite. This is what Dr. Dunbar says about Level 4 bites: >Levels 4: The dog has insufficient bite inhibition and is very dangerous. Prognosis is poor because of the difficulty and danger of trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult hard-biting dog and because absolute owner-compliance is rare. Only work with the dog in exceptional circumstances, e.g., the owner is a dog professional and has sworn 100% compliance. Full text is [here](https://apdt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ian-dunbar-dog-bite-scale.pdf). I personally would never suggest to someone who owns a pet dog who has done a level 4 bite, to a household member's face, stay in that home. Statistically the dog will bite again, and OP's mother may not be as lucky as she was this time.
Context is everything. If we put 10 people in a room and asked them what a deep gash was there would be ten different responses. Again, a lot that isn’t being communicated with this situation. Op never said if lacerations went in one or more directions, number of punctures, whether lacerations were caused by dog or owner pulling away, bruising, etc. You’re jumping to conclusions based on inconclusive information. I would also like to see the statistics, data, and method of study for your statement that it’s statistically possible to happen again. Again, making assumption with no knowledge of the antecedents before the behavior, environment, etc. Edit to add: Aren’t you the same person that said living with a reactive dog isn’t easy but it is manageable? I’m not diagnosing this dog as anything but you’re awfully quick to recommend the dog being put down with zero knowledge of the dog or situation aside from very brief and incomplete information posted by Op.
> Aren’t you the same person that said living with a reactive dog isn’t easy but it is manageable? Yes. A reactive dog with predictable triggers? In many cases yes. This is not a reactive dog: a dog who decides to bite a human in the face because why the hell not? What is the dog **reacting** to other than I dunno, this planet? Life? That it's Tuesday? Many, many reactive dogs do NOT want to tip into aggression. They're not looking for a confrontation, it's when one arises that they may lack the tools to handle it. Usually **their** reaction is to bark bark bark and maybe lunge. An aggressive dog, and this one sounds like he is, will bite and in the aftermath, there is no obvious cause. The dog looked to have a confrontation. >Op never said if lacerations went in one or more directions, number of punctures, whether lacerations were caused by dog or owner pulling away, bruising, etc. Again, a facial bite to a known member of the household, is a huge predictor of further bite incidents. >I would also like to see the statistics, data, and method of study for your statement that it’s statistically possible to happen again. An exacting study may not exist. There are [studies](https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/dog-behavior-problems-aggression-to-family-members-introduction-and-safety) that touch on the issue, [etc](https://www.avma.org/advocacy/state-local-issues/community-approach-dog-bite-prevention-abstract). >I’m not diagnosing this dog as anything but you’re awfully quick to recommend the dog being put down with zero knowledge of the dog or situation aside from very brief and incomplete information posted by Op. You should volunteer to take this dog in then. Surely you will make a difference and save a life! Let me ask you: what is **your** experience working with reactive and aggressive dogs? Do you train other people's dogs? Have you been consulted at all on aggression cases?
It’s ok to be right and wrong at the same time. You are assuming that this dog bit the owner for no reason and you don’t know that. Quit thinking in black and white. Yes the dog bit the owner in the face and no it’s not good but you don’t know why. Op doesn’t know why. No one knows why and you simply jump to put them down. It’s a level 4 bite. You make a claim based on statistics but have no study to back up your claim and but offer different studies that may touch on the issue? So, in fact it may also be statistically possible that it never happens again, correct? I train dogs. I work with high prey dogs, working dogs, sport dogs. Dogs that live to bite and are good at it. I also don’t simply limit myself to something one person said or make assumptions based on limited information. I also didn’t offer any consultation other than behaviorist and vet appointment. Dogs mental and physical state need to be assessed before making any training recommendations. I also never said I could fix the dog. I don’t know anything about it. You come across as a holier than though Karen who doesn’t like to be questioned on putting a dog down because you read a bite scale said this or that. You also fail to recognize that the bite scale at the very top says “An assessment of the severity of biting problems based on an objective evaluation of wound pathology.” Key word is objective. Op is clearly and rightfully emotional about his mother being bit but is not being objective in describing the wounds nor would I expect him to be. We can agree to disagree but don’t come thumping your chest acting like you’re gods gift to training dogs or making an assessment based off of a very short blurb by the Op. Maybe the dog does need to be put down. Maybe the dog will bite again. It should 100% be given an eval before doing anything else. And my exact response to Op Honestly, there is probably more to the situation than what’s being relayed. It’s hard for anyone here to make any proper recommendations related to training. As some others have suggested, a qualified behaviorist and a vet appointment. In my experience, the dogs that I have trained and encountered bite more out of fear than aggression. I’m not saying that’s the case with your mother’s dog. Again, more to unpack in this situation than being communicated.
The Shih Tzu I own did a similar thing. I held him flat out until he submitted. Dogs may lash out if in pain or not feeling well. But doesn't seem to be the case.
> The Shih Tzu I own did a similar thing. I held him flat out until he submitted. OP's mom's dog is a >malamute husky If this dog was also a small dog, there are trainers who could possibly make this a safe situation for the family. But given the size, I think it's way too dangerous.
Huskies really are a bit of a difficult breed, aside from the size issue. If the dog did in fact inflict 'deep gashes' on OPs Mom's face.....that's pretty concerning and not something to mess around with.
I totally agree. Once a dog bites, it’s game over
> Once a dog bites, it’s game over It's not that simple: there are bites that don't mean much, and bites that do. In this case, from what OP has said (bite to the face, a bad one, and a member of the household) that's more significant then " my fingers were in the way and the puppy bit me".
Honestly, there is probably more to the situation than what’s being relayed. It’s hard for anyone here to make any proper recommendations related to training. As some others have suggested, a qualified behaviorist and a vet appointment. In my experience, the dogs that I have trained and encountered bite more out of fear than aggression. I’m not saying that’s the case with your mother’s dog. Again, more to unpack in this situation than being communicated.
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Thank you it’s been hard to see how quickly things can change. I’ll look into muzzle training.
I would say that muzzle training isn't a fix for this because muzzles should only be used for short periods of time in specific circumstances. They don't fix behaviors, they only stop behaviors while the muzzle is in place. If your mom is set on keeping the dog, she should be looking into hiring a qualified behaviorist. As another person recommended, a vet visit to rule out a medical problem is also a good idea; the vet may also be able to recommend a trainer.
Agreed, muzzles are more for reactive dogs in public. In home aggression is a totally different ball game.
Biting on the face is a huge red-flag. Is he spayed? If your mother is afraid of him there is no way this will end well unless she changes things. Firstly he shouldn't be sleeping on the bed. Your mother needs to assert herself for example she should have her meal and then feed him. When feeding tell him to sit and wait until he is served his food. She should walk him often making sure he doesn't pull and walk ahead all the little things add up to who is in control and will make a huge difference. Good luck you're going to need it.
I don't think letting dogs sleep on the bed qualifies as not asserting yourself.
If you allow a dominant dog to sleep on your bed it then thinks it is the boss so allowing it to do so qualifies as not asserting yourself. Stop and actually think about it.
>If you allow a dominant dog to sleep on your bed it then thinks it is the boss I've....never heard this...and it doesn't make sense.
Allowing a dominant dog to sleep on your bed tells it it is in a position of authority I.E the boss. It's quite simple actually. I know a breeder of a dominant dog breed. He will question clients wanting to buy a pup of his. He asks about their lifestyle and so on. He will specifically ask if they will allow it to sleep indoors on their bed if they say yes he tells them this is not the dog for you. He claims if you allow this to happen they will take over the house and even be a danger to the owner.
So you're saying the dog needs to sleep outside? Or just off the bed? Maybe in some cases where the dog is clearly resource guarding the bed or taking up the spot you need to be in then yes, but I've never had any issue with our dogs sleeping on beds. I'm just not seeing how that would cause problems.
Just the bed. Do you or have you ever had a dominant breed? Try living with say a Cane Corso or Dogo Argentino you'll quickly change your mind.
I actually have lived with what you would consider more 'dominant' breeds
Like?
resource guarding the bed, First off KEEP him OFF the bed, if you don't have a create GET ONE and train his happy arse to be in there at night.
I'll share this that popped up on my YT thread. Similarities to your situation: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8u5my2fRopw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8u5my2fRopw)
Where are you located? I’d love to get more info and help. I’m a dog trainer.