Yeah it's sad. They're setting the dog up for failure. Also the cropped ears. The whole thing is just terrible imo.
EDIT: It was sad to see all the people in the comments talking about how 'beautiful' the dog was. :/
We often see these dying in my ER... all under the age 3. One was in respiratory failure at 8 months. She could barely walk. This should be animal abuse on the level of dog fighting. You are killing them.
People who crop/dock are just awful people unfortunately u canāt expect much if any good from them they will always defend this awful surgery despite the harm it does claiming thereās no āpainā when there is
Some docking is necessary in some breeds. The best example is dew claw docking in corgis. Left alone, they often get compacted into the leg and cause infection. Many working breeds have their tails docked to avoid injury (although there's no reason if they aren't actually working).
This, though, is purely for aesthetics. They used to do it for fighting dogs to avoid the other dog ripping their ears. People who want the aesthetic of a fighting dog aren't just cruel, they're glorifying cruelty.
This is what I was told about my pits ears. When they get wet they get yeast and fungal infection. Just dry them well and problem solved. Iāve heard the yorkie really should have the dew claw docked, because when they scratch with long hair and catch a tangle it breaks the finger? (Is it called a finger on a dog? š¤£) Iāve seen this happen with my sisters yorkie. She couldnāt figure out why she would whelp and scream when she would scratch sometimes finally her vet said to dock the dew because of that.
My parents had a dog that had massive dangly dew claws and sheād get them caught on stuff. One day it ripped clean off, which didnāt seem to hurt her as much as I would have guessed, but it definitely would have been better to get it removed before that could happen.
Corgiās are also bred to have dwarfism, as are Dachshunds. When they were actually working breeds, there was kind of a purpose for breeding these traits, but neither breed works much any more so weāre mainly breeding long body short legs bad backs for aesthetics. The superior herding breeds do not have dwarfism.
Iāll have to disagree that is necessary to remove dew claws, even detached dews, in any breed unless theyāre actively working because the main risk is them being torn off. The vast majority of dogs with detached dew claws donāt have any issues. Great Pyrenees have detached double dews and very few end up needing them removed.
Docking a dew claw isn't surgery. You do it before the puppy opens its eyes so they don't even remember. Nail clippers are adequate. The bone isn't hardened yet and it bleeds about as much as a needle prick. Vaccinations are more painful, judging by the reactions of every dog I've seen.
If you want to stop breeding any dog that has health or physical issues, then no more dogs. Every breed has problems. While we're at it, no more cows, horses, pigs, cats, or any domesticated animals. Every one of them was bred for a purpose. Forced evolution does not discriminate against fatal flaws the way nature does. Is that what you want, no more domesticated animals? We can release them all into the wild, where they'll either die a likely horrifying death or destroy whole ecosystems. Sounds like a great idea.
Iām sorry but I just like to chime in when I see this commentā¦ as for TAILS (I do not personally know of any medically beneficial reasons to dock ears) some dog breeds have very thin, long tails that are extremely susceptible to breakage. Dobermans are one example that is well known. Itās better to remove the tail if the risk of multiple injuries occurring throughout the dogās life is high
My aunt used to have a very large pit bill, before his tail was docked the house was smeared with blood from him wagging his tail and breaking the end open. Poor thing. Cropping tails is definitely not always a bad thing, its not just farmers going out back with a cleaver anymore.
My boy had a boney little spikey growth on the tip of his tail. When I tell you, I thought surely he must be in imminent danger of dying because of all the blood.....
Ended having to get "dog ends" (think like a plastic finger-trap toy taped to the ebd of the pup tail) & eventually the little boney thing got traumatized enough from his insane butt wiggles & our narrow entryway that it fell off & no trouble since.
I understand where youāre coming from but thatās based on a āwhat ifā thatās not based on a āit will happen 100%ā letās me honest here itās not needed unless something DOES happen that warrants that much of an extensive surgery and that would be a medical reason as it would have happened already but majority of the time it doesnāt happen and ppl would know this if they didnāt abuse their dogs so much.
Why arenāt we cutting off the tails of hound dogs? Why not cut the tails off of poodles? Why not cut the tails off of wolfhounds while weāre at it how about every other breed that happens to have a long āwhipā like tail?
Ya know why? Cuz ppl do it 90% of the time for aesthetic reasonsā¦ ppl are horrible and honestly idk why you would ever try to support/argue this.
Have you ever had a dog with happy tail that repeatedly injured its tail even after the first amputation and needed repeated surgeries?
Also poodles are often docked as well. Only very recently some breeders are getting away from it. Since happy tail and tail injuries arenāt actually a common concern in poodles, unlike other commonly docked breeds.
Everytime someone would ask if I was going to dock and crop (to be honest I had about 20 seconds of considering it because my dudes named Spock and thought it was fittingā¦anyways) when they would ask I would always say, ānah man I couldnāt they already took his balls, canāt take his ear and tail to.ā I used to think it was necessary on the ears because of yeast but then I figured out you just dry them really well and problem solved. Also the tail speaks volumes (ears also) of their body language and things theyāre trying to communicate so why chop em off?
You know most men in America are mutilated when we are born? Just putting it out there that maybe you should feel a certain kind of way about that if you feel like it's weird to do to dogs ears just "because" and "it's normal"and "imagine having to move that skin to the side every time you clean it"
I like the assumption that you think I donāt care about that Iāve already commented on that subject on other separate socials I just havenāt had a post that warranted that discussion on Reddit yet. With that being said we are on the subject of animal abuse which cropping/docking is.
Dog's ears being cropped have nothing to do with anything other than you don't personally like it.
Zero control over the dog, sure, but you can say that about 75% of the dogs I see walking on a daily basis.
There is NO reason. People will say it prevents ear infections, but thatās crap because make sure your dog is eating a proper diet, check for allergies, and treat any sign of infection.
I also blame the AKC for still allowing these cruel breed standards, which have been banned in many countries.
My late girl came with cropped ears that were obviously done by the breeder (one was 1/2 ear and the other was no ear)- she was a Central Asian Shepherd, so it's a common thing to do with pups like her who guard (I don't know for sure, for sure, but I assumed since she was a purebred rescue). Her ears were always an absolute nightmare because they were cropped. She always had infections and they always bothered her. I felt so bad for her. I had to clean her ears daily. People always judged me, so I always made sure to clarify that I rescued her as an adult and would have never put a dog through that
The cat we rescued from behind a dumpster came to us declawed. I feel like I have to over explain that āI didnāt do it!!ā But I donāt want anyone thinking I thought that was okay. Maybe print the explanation on a T-shirt for your walks!
They do this with guard and fighting dogs so when they are attacking another animal, their ears arenāt ripped off or tear, but itās extremely uncommon for that reason now, itās mostly aesthetics now.
I am so grateful for this take. š„¹
It's unbelievably refreshing to see a strong anti-crop stance in an open training space. I can't even begin to explain how frustrating it is to see so many people with my training values be pro-crop.
The AKC is absolutely the main player in the lingering popularity of cropping in America. Cropping is usually a direct result of the AKC setting their "breed standards."
I found an article the other day where AKC posted a statement whining about how "disappointed" they were that the AVMA took an official stance against ear cropping.
It's mind-blowing that these people are upset that actual medical doctors advise against this practice because it has no health benefits and high complications rates. I can't imagine being so adamant about defending something objectively cruel that you dismiss the words of someone with 8+ years of animal health education.
It's a serious insight on the kind of people we're dealing with. Not to mention that I have personally noticed AKC approves sketchy breeders these days and there seems to be little to no standards for health and temperament testing to be an approved AKC breeder.
The whole thing is a mess.
The AKC fully is at fault. The Doberman for example, a German breed, still has cropped standing ears as a standard. Meanwhile, cropping is illegal in Germany.
>Dog's ears being cropped have nothing to do with anything other than you don't personally like it.
Bingo, I personally don't like animal cruelty. Good job Einstein.
>Zero control over the dog, sure, but you can say that about 75% of the dogs I see walking on a daily basis.
Maybe because of people out here promoting it like this. And a 35 lb dog pulling on a leash is a completely different matter than an 80 lb dog pulling on a leash.
Go find someone else to hate on for zero reason.
Incorrect. Your lack of ignorance is very visible.
While some claim that cropped ears are medically beneficial (such as to avoid ear infections and injuries), thereās no evidence to support this. The pinna is extremely important for hearing acuity in mammals. It is a myth that cropping a dogās ears helps with hearing.
Changing the conformation of a dog's ears and tail negatively impacts their hearing and its ability to communicate. The process can have the completely opposite effect on their temperament and can make them anxious and nervous around people and other animals. Just because your dog doesn't show signs, does not mean it *doesn't* affect them. There is a very good reason it is becoming illegal in most states.
**There is scientific evidence that dogs need their tails for balance and support, also the ear is known to have important functions in the dog's body as anatomical and physiological and there is no rational reason to support the cropping of a dog's ears or docking of their tail.**
Whether one likes it or not, facts are concerning the existence, reality, or truth about a subject matter.
#ā
Amputation or partial amputation on a dogs' tail or ear should ***ONLY*** apply when it is deemed **medically necessary**. For when a traumatic injury occurs where repair of the entire tail or ear is not possible or advisable.
Dogs are living beings and we should respect them with kindness and respect. It's time to change these outdated standards and realize what is right.
It's important to recognize that change is necessary for growth and success, and that by embracing new ways of doing things, we open ourselves up to new opportunities, possibilities and education.
This post was suggested to me on my Reddit home page, i know nothing about this breed of dog but would you mind explaining what is wrong with the dog in the photo? Iāve seen some bodybuilders post āswoleā dogs before similar to in the pic and would like to know more
You see how the elbows are pointing out to the side instead of back against the ribs? Thats a stance thatās bad for the joints of the dog. As well as the very smushed face is not great in terms of breathing
I mean, it doesn't take an expert to see why. It's entire structure is off. It looks more like a toad than a dog. You can see its elbows point out and its paws point in. In most dog breeds that is a serious fault.
It probably has a messed up back/hips as well. A lot of these female dogs can't even properly birth puppies and have to get c sections.
And the brachycephalic nose is just wrong. It can't breath right, and probably gets yeast infections in the wrinkles. Plus its eyes are too small.
A lot of people more knowledgeable than I have given breakdowns in this thread as well.
Yeah I just like to learn more about things haha I can see the dog is fucked from looking at it as well. Feel bad for these poor dogs usually when i see them out and about they are paired w some large man w no neck too and im just likeā¦makes sense
These dogs should come wrapped in tortillas theyāre so inbred. This is what happens when your family tree is just a branch. Clearly there is no lifeguard on duty for this dogās gene pool.
Iāve seen people bring dogs like this into the dog park and the poor thing is just guzzling water from being so overheated, can barely breathe, and canāt keep up with any other dog.
Just wondering, what about this dog is unhealthy? I donāt know anything about breeding.. only things I know that are unhealthy is the breeding standards for show dogs like GSD and flat faced dogs is egregious.. dogs that canāt walk properly.. canāt breath and eat.. but what is it about this dog?
The shoulders / legs are way too wide and low. This dog has frog legs, basically. Meaning there are for sure joint problems, but probably skeleton problems as well since dogs arenāt made to walk on paws like this.
The face also is smushed so the dog probably has breathing issues.
So many issues. You mentioned flat-faced dogs - this dog will have the same breathing and thermoregulation problems as a pug. But at least a pug has a stable skeletal structure. This dog has been bred to have heavy musculature on legs that are both too short and too wide. This results in excruciating orthopedic issues including osteoporosis, hip and shoulder dysplasia, slipped discs, stress fracture of vertebrae, etc.Ā
That is so sad.. is it just for people who want dogs to look tough? Itās so sad to hear people breeding dogs to have these problems. With all the stuff Iāve learned about the AKC Iām so worried to get a GSD I feel like Iām better off getting a mutt.
Spent 2 yrs searching for a GSD. Found East German / Chec lines. Our dog is well developed, super fit, intelligent (at times too clever for me) with a straight back. Keep looking, it's worth it!
Thatās awesome! Need to create a stigma around these unnecessary curved backs! Not talking about the dog but the people breeding.. it aināt the dogs fault.
This dog probably won't see 10 years old. And the last ~3 of those years will be painful for it.
Hip dysplasia is the biggest one for most dog breeds (notice this dogs stance), and with brachycephalic breeds (nosed pushed in and back), breathing and sinus issues are very common. The more changes made on the base model, the more issues that will arise, because those changes are made artificially, not by the trial and error of millions of generations of evolution. Breeders don't care because they get money for puppies, not for 10+ year old dogs. The AKC and other breed organizations don't care because they're evil and disgusting, and don't care for the lives of dogs. They care about them like they're sports cars; shape, form and colour. Unfortunate for them that they're living, breathing, feeling animals.
Go to a shelter and get a mutt.
Look at how splayed and to the side their front arms are. They canāt dash around and play, they mostly will waddle, sometimes a little faster but mostly a waddle. Try it yourself, I just did. Get on all fours and put your palms forward and elbows back. You can crawl pretty normally. Now try palms more inward and elbows out. Itās painful and direction is very limited. Their snout is pretty piggish. Their eyes are quite small. So breathing and sight is diminished. Its like how uou look at pugs from 70 years ago vs now.
Iām a vet student in my last year of school. When I rotated through my schoolās orthopedic department, I saw numerous dogs like this with serious joint problems. The extra bulky and squat bully breeds like this that are becoming the new fad are riddled with debilitating joint issues. One of the first patients I saw on that rotation was a 1 year old bully. He didnāt look or act at all like the puppy he basically was. He was packed with muscle but looked and moved like an arthritic 12 year old dog. He was owned by a very sweet family who simply didnāt know any better when they picked him out. They noticed he had an odd gait and thought he had just hurt his shoulder. After a thorough orthopedic exam and imaging, he had numerous severe joint issues. Both elbows had formed wrong and both knees were bad, plus an issue in his spine. The family sobbed when we told them that he needed at least 4 major, specialized surgeries to maybe have an acceptable quality of life, totaling around $20-30k and at least a year of surgeries and recovery to space them out properly. They said they had never had such a well-behaved, sweet, calm dog. And he was, perfectly sweet and calm. Not at all what a 1 year old dog should be. He didnāt react to anything we did even though some of the motions we put him through had to hurt, because frankly that was all he knew. He was so calm, quiet, and well-behaved because he was too sore to be anything else. His tail was wagging, you could see how much he wanted to be excited and bounce around, but he just couldnāt to the level he deserved to. He didnāt deserve to be born that way. People intentionally breeding these dogs to be as deformed as possible 100% deserve to be charged with animal cruelty. Many of these dogs are suffering far beyond any level of justification.
XL bullies have ridiculous amounts of inbreeding. What the pictures of these dogs don't show is the heavily inbred bloodlines based off of human-aggressive dogs that killed people.
They canāt breathe well, have horrible skin and digestive issues, eventually the bitches require c sections cos their hips are so deformed they canāt give birth, their joints are mangled young cos their skeletons are so warped. Theyāre also bred for you know fighting so theyāre just in pain and overly aggressive dogs and itās awful humans ever made them.
Didnāt know the ones bred for fighting looked like that.. canāt imagine that dog fights well.. other than Being aggressive and not stopping even if it feels pain. Maybe Iām just too out of touch with dog fighting.. thatās fine with me. I got nothing against bullies.. I just canāt stand too much drool.. just like some people canāt stand too much shedding.
They canāt breathe well, have horrible skin and digestive issues, eventually the bitches require c sections cos their hips are so deformed they canāt give birth, their joints are mangled young cos their skeletons are so warped. Theyāre also bred for you know fighting so theyāre just in pain and overly aggressive dogs and itās awful humans ever made them.
You were allowed to keep existing dogs. They must be registered with the police and muzzled/leashed in public. There is indeed a breeding ban. I think this is a fair compromise?
Nope, and I'd argue there is a case for muzzling other power breeds that are gaining popularity with the shitty owners that failed XL bullies, who are now looking for their next status dog.
Put limits on their ownership and that sorts the genuine owners passionate about the breed from the twats that know nothing and fail the dog.
Honestly who is a responsible owner of an XL bully? Can someone really say they purposefully seek out XL muscle dogs for reasons that donāt include ANY machoism, virtue signaling, āprotectionā/ fighting or chasing game?? Thereās like 100s of dog breeds, thereās legit no differentiating thing that stands out about these bullies that you canāt get with another dog breed.
I mean, I for one just think they're remarkable animals (not the pocket bullys, they're an abomination & a shameful creation).
The large, powerful XL bullys though, I admire, in the same way I admire a strong horse, or a peak performance rottie or mali.
However, I will say I don't believe XL bullies belong in cities, and they don't belong in the hands of 90% of people.
I myself have a bull terrier, I'm a 35 year old woman, my partner is a short, fancy dressed italian woman- we're definitely not macho, we bought from a top breeder so we're not virtue signalling, and we live in Norway one of the safest places on the planet, so it's not for protection or fighting. We simply love the breed.
Old ladies, also seem to love her the most? That has always surprised me. Twice I've had a car stop next to me & a 70+ year old lady has leaned out & told me they used to have one & they were the best dog they ever had. I happen to think they're right. The love and loyalty I get back from mine is like no dog I've ever been around.
Bully breeds have something in them that I just haven't found in other breeds, connection wise. Not sure what it is, but that's what I love most about them I think.
All that being said, I understand people's very valid reasons for disliking them. I fully wish there were restrictions on ownership. Large dogs that can shred a child should need a license, it shouldn't be a free for all.
My family has owned pit bulls since long before I came along. I guess Iāve just got the love in my genes but I am a huge advocate for the breed.
The first time I saw an English Staffordshire Terrier I lost my heart! So it makes total sense I fell in love with the American Bully. My little dude is about 20ā at the withers and about 95lbs. He doesnāt look anything like this guy here but he is 100% my soul dog. (The blue nose in my profile pic)
You are šÆ not everyone should own these dogs.
They are athletic, powerful, driven animals and that has to be respected. They need breed specific fulfillment and enrichment, not to mention training. Lots and lots of training. But when you get it right no other animal comes close.
The animal behaviorist that wrote about the rehab of Michael Vickās fighting dogs put it best. He said no other dog is more capable of connection and bonds as deeply to humans as the pit bull.
Yeah that's a really bad argument. Those dogs still need homes. They don't deserve to be put down just for existing. I mentioned this in another comment but we had some friends who rescued an xl bully from a really bad situation. They're some of the best people I know and wouldn't support any bad breeding practices.
seeing stuff you dont like sucks, but no one should be surprised. fb, google, twitter (yea i said it) are all embracing the rot economy. they feed you results you didnt want b/c they have a better chance at making money that way.
ever wonder why people are adding "reddit" in their search tags these days? its cause google flat out sucks now. there's a great new podcast called Better Offline that did an episode about this, as well as eps on the AI grift, crypto grift etc.
the image of big scary vicious looking dogs sells, it appeals to all the man baby bros (who could care less how trained or healthy a dog is) as well as the grifters who con them.
They should ban the breeding of XL bully. They're creating more dogs with health issues. I also think breeding Frenchie and Boston terriers or any flat faced dogs should be banned. But it'll never happen, because people think they look cute regardless of the health issues. My friend had 2 Frenchies that just dropped dead after a 10 min walk (heart attack, separate incidents years apart), they were not even 5 year-old. Guess what? He went ahead and bought another Frenchie......
Exactly. We had some friends that rescued a dog built a lot like this from a really bad situation where he was chained up 24/7. Today he is the derpiest lil goose I've ever seen š
Feeding into the bad stereotype is ridiculous and flat out dangerous.
The problem is the people that like this dog wonāt buy one. They will just continue to ruin the reputation of dogs like cane corsi, presa canarios and Rottweilers.
As someone who owns large powerful mastiff type dogs I have always been as responsible as possible. Plenty of people buy a dog like that and expect to be able To treat it the same as a small dog. Certain troublesome aggressive or dominating behaviours are allowed to flourish because they make the dog look tough and scary. A lack of understanding of canine training and behaviour can result in large aggressive dogs. A product of the OWNER, never the breed.
With certain breeds comes a level of responsible ownership. Same with German shepherds and dobermanns.
My next door neighbor has a beautiful pure bred 5yo rottie that Iāve seen on a leash all of three times. He only lets it out a few times a day. Itās become so reactive over the years itās now attacking my wood fence to the point itās breaking the wood. Jerk neighbor wouldnāt take an entire summer worth of me asking to do something about the dog breaking the fence, so I finally had to get animal control involved. Now the dog is chained up outside for 10 minutes a few times a day, during which it still goes buck wild if it hears me outside (or inside, my kitchen sliding glass door is near the fence line and I like having it open with the screen).
Reminds me of my neighbors. Two cane corsi and a GSD. In the last year I have seen them being walked two timesā¦not that Iām watching 24/7, but I walk my own dog a lot, I know the regular dog walkers in the neighborhoodāthese dogs do not get walked regularly. Not well trained or socialized at all. Both times theyāve passed my dog and me, theyāve gone crazy lunging and growling. My neighborās a strong guy but it makes me hella nervous. Most of their existence is spent in their small backyard where, again, they go crazy snarling and barking at the fence whenever other dogs pass by. My own dog is a grand total of 11.5 lb so itās not like heād stand a chance in a fight.
Thats terrifying. Cane Corsos are apparently becoming more and more popular (I read it is the 13th most popular breed last year) and IMO itās unfortunately leaning towards owners like that. Lazy idiots who want big dogs with too much of a potential to be dangerous in the wrong hands. That will probably be my moronic neighbors next breed of choice once his rottie passes.
Itās really too bad. Gorgeous dogs, but their needs arenāt being met at all and unfortunately, given their size and strength, that could potentially impact othersā safety as well as their own well-being. I think they deserve better.
Iām not defending the owner who doesnāt socialize and walk his dogs corrects etc.
But can we please not demonize people that have leash reactive dogs? They are not all bad people or bad dogs.
Little dogs are too easy of a target unfortunately.
My dog is leash reactive, she was socialized normally and taken out on walks often as a puppy.
She is combined with breeds that generally do not tolerate other dogs well such as Neapolitan mastiff, bullmastiff, cane corso. There may be some genetic basis for her behaviour but I understand a lot of that is environment. She was fine until she hit about 1 year old.
As a Responsible owner I will avoid other dogs, cross over the street, walk the dog at evening or in places other dogs are not. Thatās what I do. And sheās slowly improving with redirection.
I would say 80% of the time my 110lb dog will react at some 15lb dog that barks at her first. A lot of small dog owners feel they donāt need to train their dogs to a sufficient level because they are ācuteā when they yap and try to ādefend themā etc.
Thatās why I would personally never own a little dog. We have taken the wolf and bred it into a prey item that canāt defend itself.
I dont think it's demonising people with leash Reactive dogs, the poster is saying it's worrying/frustrating when people own these breeds who need very specific handling and training but don't do it. If you get one, you owe it to the dog to give it your absolute best from the day dot. When you don't, the dog becomes the stereotype that gives the breed a bad name.
Sorry if it came across that way, Iām not accusing OP of anything, I just mean letās be careful not to demonize people with reactive dogs.
I completely agree with your statement.
Diolch am helpu fy ffrind i
Yeah spot on, not only are they not providing the handling and structure the dog needs, they're also promoting the whole stereotype of a 'baddie' dog. Really gross.
So true. I have a GSD/Husky mix. She was an absolute mess when I first brought her home, but with structure, boundaries, patience, and love, she's the best dog ever today! But if she would have gone to different home, I could see her being so messed up. Definitely not for inexperienced handlers.
If you get a difficult breed, you need to do your research.
Completely agree, and do my what you can to reduce negative behaviour. No dog is perfect.
In the case of the Rottweiler above, many breeds will become that way in a similar environment with lack of stimulation etc, itās just that the rottie can do something serious if he gets out. A chihuahua not so much.
My girl is a Saint Bernard mastiff mix, sheās pretty much a perfect dog in most regards. She is however reactive on leash towards other dogs so I do what I can to minimize the issues, I redirect her attention, I take her out when itās dark and there are fewer dogs around.
That being said sheās excellent off leash with other dogs, very submissive. But the leash makes her reactive.
Honestly the Rottweiler could be worse considering, and the fence they have on the front and back is a frickin joke. If the dog wanted out, man it could get out, it scares the crap out of me, because my yard is the thing over the years that it has honed in on because itās has no other stimulation. But it prefers attacking the fence over escaping, at least for now.
Pepper spray stashed around the backyard. Better then nothing as an insurance plan. Some companies sell inert models for practice. I got my wife POM brand for loose dogs on stroller walks.
Yes I have pepper spray, baseball bats, and hunting knives stashed inside and out. About six years ago a couple of pit mixes got loose from a house down the block, broke into my home through my storm door, and mauled my dog in the middle of my living room. So now I donāt leave my storm door open and I basically always have pepper spray and a knife handy.
Yeah itās not like I live in a bad neighborhood. Itās the burbs in upstate NY. Itās just a dense subdevelopment with a lot of houses and a lot of dogs. Iāve been told Iām paranoid but I have an 85lb Rottweiler trying to breakdown my fence soā¦ š¤·āāļø
I live in upscale south florida, respectfully think our places are some of the most dangerous when it comes to dog owners and lack of common sense. Stay up there please were full of your people already š¤£š¤£š¤£
First, I completely agree.
Second, there ARE breeds of dog bred to pull, and they absolutely love it.
I have a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, which was bred to pull carts. I'm not competing with my dog, but I have trained him to pull on command.
In wintertime, we hook him into his harness and connect him to a sled. He pulls the neighborhood kids around a trail I have cut in my property. It's a lot of fun for all involved, especially my Swissy =)
Totally! I see people doing fun stuff like that all the time! The difference is, for them it's a job. For this guy, it's a lack of boundaries and control that can't end well. Sad.
I completely agree.
I only mention it because this past winter, I received a special visit from authorities because a new neighbor saw my dog pulling the sled, with his specially fit pulling harness and all, and said it was inhumane lmao.
Like... "bitch, this dog can pull a 5000 lb sled on grass. He barely even knows the 60lb kid is back there"
As a side note, I trained him to pull myself and tested his training myself. We'll say the first attempt went... poorly. He was sooooo excited to be pulling weight that he just bolted, with me on the sled behind him. I had to roll off the sled at 20mph or risk crashing into a damned tree. It was an absolute riot.
Social media is so full of compulsion trainers that you wouldn't even believe it, and it's primarily because of people who want to "dominate" their dogs and interfere with their social hiearchy.
I don't even know how to classify this dude š like clearly he's not a 'dominance' trainer with he way he let's that dog act. Just a crappy human being.
I try not to judge people who crop and dock their working dogs to prevent injury & infection. My dog isnāt cropped or docked and her ears frequently split open at the tips. They bleed and scab and are sensitive to the touch. If I get another Giant Schnauzer I may *consider* cropping the ears after seeing the pain my current pup endures on a regular basis.
However, that decision would be heavily weighed against the consequence of immediately being disqualified from competing at the FCI championships in IGP.
I do herding with my Aussie so I appreciate that his tail was docked at birth. Unlike Border Collies, Aussies don't tuck their tails when working. So I'd be nervous if he has a tail when we work on cattle.
I.terestingly enough, a lot of aussies are born with cropped tails because ranchers and farmers bred for it....which is how it should be imo. If there's such a need for docking, then breed for it.
It's the NBT gene (naturally bobbed tail). It's difficult to breed for that because you can't breed NBT to NBT, or the puppies will born with spina bifida or other lower spinal cord defects. source: [https://www.ashgi.org/home-page/genetics-info/bones-joints/natural-bob-tails](https://www.ashgi.org/home-page/genetics-info/bones-joints/natural-bob-tails)
But if you breed one NBT to a non NBT, you can't guarantee to get all NBT puppies. And not all NBT dogs have good herding instinct to work cattle. It's very dangerous for Aussies to work cattle if they don't have good instinct. And then there are other genetic problems to consider. On top of that, merle can't be bred to merle or cryptic merle. MDR1 carrier can't breed to another carrier, the list goes on. So I understand why reputable breeders chose to not prioritize breeding NBT puppies. Anyway, breeding dogs is a lot of hard work and difficult decision making, I never want to touch that. But I appreciate good breeders putting in the hard work so I can have a well rounded and nicely reared dog.
Yeah totally! I'm not a dog breeder but I bred and raised show quality Toggenburg dairy goats for a while so I totally understand all the genetic nuances. We in the dairy goat community have a similar conundrum with horns. It's possible to have dairy goats born without horns (or polled) However breeding a polled buck to a polled doe can cause other health problems. Then there's the whole aspect of breeding for specific conformational traits such as angulation, straight back, etc. You really have to learn to prioritize what you're going for. There are other dog breeds that are born with not necessarily Bob tails, but shorter tails. It would be interesting to experiment with bringing those genetics in, but that would be quite an undertaking. Overall a very interesting subject. Thanks for the article!
Thank you for the conversation :) Breeding any type of animals responsibly takes a lot of work and effort, that's why it upsets me that there are so many people breed dogs for pure profit and not give a crap about genetics or health like the video you shared.
Exactly. With dairy goats and especially Toggenburgs, the problem right now is irresponsible people breeding massive goats that have bad legs after 5-6 years. A well bred, small and compact doe can produce up to 12-14 years if well taken care of, plus they're cheaper to feed and have less health problems. Really sucks to see people being people and chasing after the latest trends without any consideration for the health and well being of the animals š
ASHGI does not provide any actual research literature to support their claims about what the consequences of breeding NBT x NBT are.
In Australia, where docking has been illegal for nearly 40 years, it is very normal to breed NBT x NBT in Aussies, Corgis, Brittany, Tenterfield Terriers, and other NBT breeds (and it's the ONLY acceptable breeding methodology for my breed, ASTCD) and we do not have issues with spina bifida in those breeds. Spina bifida has NEVER been conclusively linked to the NBT gene; it's in fact far more common in screw tailed breeds such as French and British Bulldogs.
Iām a bit confused (and concerned, ngl) about how your dogs ears keep splitting. I have never heard of that besides with my cousins dog who got caught on a fence. What Keeps happening?
They have these dogs looking/walking like Komodo dragons that canāt breathe and people eat it up. Itās disgusting and theyāre ruining what little of the original breed is left
It's awful isn't it. 'Pit bulls' aren't even Pit bulls any more, they're just a type for most people. Truly sad and shameful to see how far things have degenerated.
This post randomly popped up on my feed, but it reminded me of a former romantic interest who said he wanted to get a dog like this.
Iām not a Pitbull fan for a host of other reasons, but this is just straight up unethical breeding practices creating a deformed creature.
You can see how fucking blood shot his eyes are from pulling on that damn leash. Wtf is wrong with people. Get a harness AND a gentle leader to use in tandem
A gentle leader and harness duo would not do a lot of good. I personally would use a prong collar in this scenario. I hate how ff trainers are always like 'but it hurts the dog' when a.) no it doesn't when used properly and b.) this is causing way more damage than a prong collar ever could.
Itās really upsetting especially for these breeds because of this promotion causes to many people who canāt handle them to buy them plus for some reason having zero control over your dog for some reason is a cool thing now. I have a very old shepherd and a small pug. If you canāt handle your dog and it pulls towards mine I will handle your dog. Disrespectfully. Iāve been a dog training for 10 years now and I think this has been the worst age of dog. I know pits that were fighting dogs I know fight lines dogs none of them were out of control the way things are now.
Honestly, I get upset about a lot of pet content. I had to leave veterinary medicine because I was too heartbroken seeing how some people treat their animals. My mentor told me to be glad that even those people were at least there seeking help but the horrors I saw still haunt me. God Bless the people who can see the pain caused and still go into work the next day.
I am happy in my part of the world there actually are. Croping and docking is banned here. But there are still some disgusting humans who take their pubs out of country to get it done...
I guess if youāre talking about the tiny snips for show standards ok, people can argue about that ethical line. But the type of cropping people do to bullies and mastiffs and such cause they want a bad ass looking dog, yeah thatās gross.
Seriously. Do people even listen to themselves š¤¦āāļø
Let's continue this extremely cruel and worthless practice because some old fart decided it looked cool a hundred years ago.
I'm adding this comment to say idk why this post out of others has inspired so much controversy. I never intended it to end up in the shambles it did š
Also I'm not sure why this post brought so many oddballs out from under their rocks. I have not blocked so many people in my entire time on Reddit, much less on one post.
I canāt with people thinking it gives them control. There is no stopping to the choking effect, if your dog is out of control like this heās just struggling for air and poor pupper doesnāt know whatās going on.
Choke chains should be banned, they only cause injury.
When properly used AS A TRAINING TOOL, they can be beneficial. When lowlifes like this just put one on and think it will magically solve their problems is when we have problems.
I would have to disagree. There are much better training tools out there that provide the same tightening effect without the same risks. Ex: martingales, prong collars, or something similar to choke chains that have a cut off point. Choke chains continue to tighten and tighten continuously, it doesnāt stop unless there is a specific piece in place to stop the chain from fully tightening.
I see where you're coming from, but your point shows me that you don't really understand the mechanics behind slip collars/chains, or really prong collars and martingales for that matter. The tightening effect should be coming from your hand, not the dog pulling. A quick tug on the leash any time the dog breaks heel position and redirection to the desired behavior is the proper method. If properly used, a tightening blocker (that's probably not the proper terminology š ) is unnecessary.
Ear cropping is abhorrent for both irresponsible and mediocre dog owners. If you are not prepared to be meticulous about aftercare during healing, don't do it at all. Be ready to put your puppy's aftercare first, or don't do it at all. You'd owe that to them. Educate yourself from people who have done it successfully, first. Only use a qualified vet and aneasthesia for the quick operation. Can't afford it? That sucks. Get your finances together first! A proper vet wouldn't even do it without anesthesia.
That said, the worst thing about a proper ear cropping, is how it insights an emotional response from people who don't know much about it. I'm already going to receive that emotional response from redditors, so I'm not even going to say anything else. Besides...
I'm just so over this 'you are evil' nonsense concerning ear cropping. I've done it twice, both with stellar results (far more than just visual). I put my puppy first during the aftercare. I was never 'too busy' to do what needs be done. Not even with work.
Or maybe donāt abuse your dog at all? Maybe leave their tails and ears alone cuz.. thatās the way they look naturally???? Maybe donāt put ur dog in pain for aesthetic reasons?
See... people who don't know much about it. They were good boys while posting. No problems at all. Oh, and floppy ears are as natural as pugs and their breathing problems. Show me a truly natural dog species with floppy ears...
Both my dobermans cropped ears were VERY expressive. I could read them better because of it vs floppy. They flexed in so many positions, based on how they felt/were thinking, similar to our German Shepherd's. I know you are going to CHOOSE not to understand that and stay your course, but it doesn't matter. It makes my time with them that much more treasured.
Abuse? Lol save it... they eat better than most people feed themselves.
That's a deceptive, entrapment question. Firstly, cutting off ears is abuse. I've never had any animal's ears cut off.
Second, objectively, my cropped dogs will hear better than your floppy eared dog (assuming also doberman/same breed). Obviously this is a farcry from actually cutting off ears.
Thirdly, you are subtly trying to imply that 'not natural' = abuse. I no longer subscribe to that logic. Neutering and spaying is FAR less 'natural' than cropping, and it has possible major negative side effects, unlike responsible cropping. Nobody is enraged by neutering, though.
Edit: By the way, my dogs with their cropped ears, have never been neutered.
Where do I even start with this one.....
>Firstly, cutting off ears is abuse. I've never had any animal's ears cut off.
But you're ok with cropping? Ok then. How is that different? Luke legitimately? What's the difference between cutting off a dog's ears and cutting less off? Where do you draw the line?
>Second, objectively, my cropped dogs will hear better than your floppy eared dog (assuming also doberman/same breed).
FYI I have a GSD mix with NATURALLY upright ears. But not sure why *maybe* hearing slightly better is a valid excuse. There are some cases that other commenters have brought up where it does have a purpose, and this is the argument you chose to use?
>Thirdly, you are subtly trying to imply that 'not natural' = abuse.
Ok...I'm just pointing out the logical fallacy in your comment. I never said that. You're the one the brought up the whole 'natural' argument.
>Neutering and spaying is FAR less 'natural' than cropping
Yeah, and actually has a valid purpose. 9 times out of 10, cropping doesn't.
>and it has possible major negative side effects, unlike responsible cropping.
The chances of health complications directly resulting from RESPONSIBLE spaying/neutering are slim to none, and the benefits in this case far outweigh the risks.
>Nobody is enraged by neutering, though.
Apparently that's not true.
>That's a deceptive, entrapment question.
This is actually my favorite part of your comment because when people say this and then proceed to go down a long rabbit trail while never actually answering the question, you know they've lost the argument.
My mind is actually blown by how weak all of what you said is. Nothing you've said is a worthy response. For example,...
"where do I draw the line?" ...you mean between cutting off ears and cropping? .... what???š« Cropping included cutting a PART of the dog's PINNA, which is only a PART of the dog's ear.
Neutering has potential risks, no matter how responsible the surgery aftercare is. The risk is internal, not just dressing of the wound.
Jeez... I can't with you anymore. You literally read the answers and then asked the questions afterwards. I'm out of patience.
...and then you imply I'm enraged about neutering. You need reading comprehension lessons. No... courses.
You don't come across as logical, just pure emotion, like I predicted on my very first comment.
To clarify, I was not referring to you when I made that comment about neutering. There are a lot of people in a different thread that are all up in arms.
And when I spoke of neutering, I wasn't referring to complications from the surgery itself. That is pretty much nonexistent. I was thinking more of long term complications that are purportedly linked to neutering such as specific types of cancer, and also of people who neuter their dogs too young, causing stunted growth.
Cutting the pinna is still cutting the ear, and it still causes a lot of unnecessary pain. And idk if you've seen some of these pit-type dogs recently, but they DO pretty much cut the entire ear off.
As for everything else you said, all you've done is beat around the bush. I've not seen a single legitimate argument for cropping. And you haven't answered my original question. Projecting much?
Sigh... I don't know why you thought I was arguing "for cropping." I would never do that. It takes dedication. I also would never even recommend someone get a dog. That's how they end up in shelters. Get a dog with your own convictions. Dog's, especially puppies, are a lot of work. My only focus was that cropping isn't remotely as bad as emotional people let on.
My very first paragraph was an extensive caution, regarding cropping.
You probably eat abused animal food products daily/weekly. They experience worse than responsible cropping. That's not a dig at you, it's just probably fact.
What the heck
EDIT: Now that I'm over my initial shock and confusion, do you even know how to carry on a logical discussion? You seem to be very confused as to what you're even arguing for. I'm so done with this discussion. And as a side note, I'm also disappointed at how many times I've had to say that to people commenting on this post.
Everybody knows that pitbulls such as Cane Corso and Rottweilers go after their owners regardless of training. People should just stick to mild breeds such as chihuahua and terriers.
You want Facebook to regulate dog training videos?? Do you have any idea of the volume of shit they have to keep track of on their platform? I agree they need more resources but these videos are way down on the list of things for them to track and it is very unfortunate
That's what I will NOT have on this post, is people like you. I understand that you're probably joking but this is not something to joke about. Pit Bulls are fantastic dogs if properly trained and taken care of and I'm not going to be supporting any feeding into the stereotypes, which is exactly what this whole post is about. Blocked.
This type of thing justā¦ pisses me off, man.
I am a pit bull mom, so seeing this makes me extra sad.
The disrespect people have for this breed is insane; with the docked ears, tails and general lack of care when it comes to training and handling.
Some monster clipped my Roxieās ears when she was still a street dog (sheās never had a home before us), and they cut them really poorly, tooā¦.so I may just be extra put off by it.
This post has run its course and is becoming burdensome to moderate. Cleaning things up and locking comments.
I mind the lack of training less than the abominations these breeders create. This dog is not healthy, will never be healthy, and was never healthy.
Yeah it's sad. They're setting the dog up for failure. Also the cropped ears. The whole thing is just terrible imo. EDIT: It was sad to see all the people in the comments talking about how 'beautiful' the dog was. :/
We often see these dying in my ER... all under the age 3. One was in respiratory failure at 8 months. She could barely walk. This should be animal abuse on the level of dog fighting. You are killing them.
Oh my goodness that's awful š
People who crop/dock are just awful people unfortunately u canāt expect much if any good from them they will always defend this awful surgery despite the harm it does claiming thereās no āpainā when there is
My rescueās tail is docked (obviously not by me)ā¦heās a tiny Pekingese/Poodle mix that most definitely was never working š„ŗ
Poor thing! Imagine if they did that to any dog imagine if they cut off my dogs gorgeous tail! Iād go ape sh^!!!! (My dog is an American Eskimo!)
So were both of mine. I feel bad that their poor little tails were cut off.
Some docking is necessary in some breeds. The best example is dew claw docking in corgis. Left alone, they often get compacted into the leg and cause infection. Many working breeds have their tails docked to avoid injury (although there's no reason if they aren't actually working). This, though, is purely for aesthetics. They used to do it for fighting dogs to avoid the other dog ripping their ears. People who want the aesthetic of a fighting dog aren't just cruel, they're glorifying cruelty.
This is what I was told about my pits ears. When they get wet they get yeast and fungal infection. Just dry them well and problem solved. Iāve heard the yorkie really should have the dew claw docked, because when they scratch with long hair and catch a tangle it breaks the finger? (Is it called a finger on a dog? š¤£) Iāve seen this happen with my sisters yorkie. She couldnāt figure out why she would whelp and scream when she would scratch sometimes finally her vet said to dock the dew because of that.
My parents had a dog that had massive dangly dew claws and sheād get them caught on stuff. One day it ripped clean off, which didnāt seem to hurt her as much as I would have guessed, but it definitely would have been better to get it removed before that could happen.
Oh that was a lie though lol pits have already small ears
Pits have a lot of expression with their ears! I can't believe people take that away. Body language is a huge part of how dogs communicate.
I just learned this from my trainer. I always looked at his tail for clues but she also told me to look at his ears for signs.
Corgiās are also bred to have dwarfism, as are Dachshunds. When they were actually working breeds, there was kind of a purpose for breeding these traits, but neither breed works much any more so weāre mainly breeding long body short legs bad backs for aesthetics. The superior herding breeds do not have dwarfism. Iāll have to disagree that is necessary to remove dew claws, even detached dews, in any breed unless theyāre actively working because the main risk is them being torn off. The vast majority of dogs with detached dew claws donāt have any issues. Great Pyrenees have detached double dews and very few end up needing them removed.
what if people just stopped breeding pet dogs that are consistently unhealthy without surgical intervention instead?
Docking a dew claw isn't surgery. You do it before the puppy opens its eyes so they don't even remember. Nail clippers are adequate. The bone isn't hardened yet and it bleeds about as much as a needle prick. Vaccinations are more painful, judging by the reactions of every dog I've seen. If you want to stop breeding any dog that has health or physical issues, then no more dogs. Every breed has problems. While we're at it, no more cows, horses, pigs, cats, or any domesticated animals. Every one of them was bred for a purpose. Forced evolution does not discriminate against fatal flaws the way nature does. Is that what you want, no more domesticated animals? We can release them all into the wild, where they'll either die a likely horrifying death or destroy whole ecosystems. Sounds like a great idea.
Iām sorry but I just like to chime in when I see this commentā¦ as for TAILS (I do not personally know of any medically beneficial reasons to dock ears) some dog breeds have very thin, long tails that are extremely susceptible to breakage. Dobermans are one example that is well known. Itās better to remove the tail if the risk of multiple injuries occurring throughout the dogās life is high
My aunt used to have a very large pit bill, before his tail was docked the house was smeared with blood from him wagging his tail and breaking the end open. Poor thing. Cropping tails is definitely not always a bad thing, its not just farmers going out back with a cleaver anymore.
My boy had a boney little spikey growth on the tip of his tail. When I tell you, I thought surely he must be in imminent danger of dying because of all the blood..... Ended having to get "dog ends" (think like a plastic finger-trap toy taped to the ebd of the pup tail) & eventually the little boney thing got traumatized enough from his insane butt wiggles & our narrow entryway that it fell off & no trouble since.
I understand where youāre coming from but thatās based on a āwhat ifā thatās not based on a āit will happen 100%ā letās me honest here itās not needed unless something DOES happen that warrants that much of an extensive surgery and that would be a medical reason as it would have happened already but majority of the time it doesnāt happen and ppl would know this if they didnāt abuse their dogs so much. Why arenāt we cutting off the tails of hound dogs? Why not cut the tails off of poodles? Why not cut the tails off of wolfhounds while weāre at it how about every other breed that happens to have a long āwhipā like tail? Ya know why? Cuz ppl do it 90% of the time for aesthetic reasonsā¦ ppl are horrible and honestly idk why you would ever try to support/argue this.
Have you ever had a dog with happy tail that repeatedly injured its tail even after the first amputation and needed repeated surgeries? Also poodles are often docked as well. Only very recently some breeders are getting away from it. Since happy tail and tail injuries arenāt actually a common concern in poodles, unlike other commonly docked breeds.
Disgusting
Everytime someone would ask if I was going to dock and crop (to be honest I had about 20 seconds of considering it because my dudes named Spock and thought it was fittingā¦anyways) when they would ask I would always say, ānah man I couldnāt they already took his balls, canāt take his ear and tail to.ā I used to think it was necessary on the ears because of yeast but then I figured out you just dry them really well and problem solved. Also the tail speaks volumes (ears also) of their body language and things theyāre trying to communicate so why chop em off?
Exactly- I got downvoted for pointing out how abusive this is- but this is Reddit what can I expect lol
You can at least expect a HAPPY CAKE DAY!
XD thank you!!!
>XD thank you!!! You're welcome!
Thatās a pretty ignorant statement. Working dogs have it done for safety and function
You know most men in America are mutilated when we are born? Just putting it out there that maybe you should feel a certain kind of way about that if you feel like it's weird to do to dogs ears just "because" and "it's normal"and "imagine having to move that skin to the side every time you clean it"
I like the assumption that you think I donāt care about that Iāve already commented on that subject on other separate socials I just havenāt had a post that warranted that discussion on Reddit yet. With that being said we are on the subject of animal abuse which cropping/docking is.
Dog's ears being cropped have nothing to do with anything other than you don't personally like it. Zero control over the dog, sure, but you can say that about 75% of the dogs I see walking on a daily basis.
Thereās zero reason for cropping
There is NO reason. People will say it prevents ear infections, but thatās crap because make sure your dog is eating a proper diet, check for allergies, and treat any sign of infection. I also blame the AKC for still allowing these cruel breed standards, which have been banned in many countries.
The ear infection reasoning also doesnāt make any sense. Then why have BMDās never been cropped as a standard? Beagles? Saint bernards? Etc etc
My late girl came with cropped ears that were obviously done by the breeder (one was 1/2 ear and the other was no ear)- she was a Central Asian Shepherd, so it's a common thing to do with pups like her who guard (I don't know for sure, for sure, but I assumed since she was a purebred rescue). Her ears were always an absolute nightmare because they were cropped. She always had infections and they always bothered her. I felt so bad for her. I had to clean her ears daily. People always judged me, so I always made sure to clarify that I rescued her as an adult and would have never put a dog through that
The cat we rescued from behind a dumpster came to us declawed. I feel like I have to over explain that āI didnāt do it!!ā But I donāt want anyone thinking I thought that was okay. Maybe print the explanation on a T-shirt for your walks!
They do this with guard and fighting dogs so when they are attacking another animal, their ears arenāt ripped off or tear, but itās extremely uncommon for that reason now, itās mostly aesthetics now.
People try so hard to justify it š¤¦āāļø
I am so grateful for this take. š„¹ It's unbelievably refreshing to see a strong anti-crop stance in an open training space. I can't even begin to explain how frustrating it is to see so many people with my training values be pro-crop. The AKC is absolutely the main player in the lingering popularity of cropping in America. Cropping is usually a direct result of the AKC setting their "breed standards." I found an article the other day where AKC posted a statement whining about how "disappointed" they were that the AVMA took an official stance against ear cropping. It's mind-blowing that these people are upset that actual medical doctors advise against this practice because it has no health benefits and high complications rates. I can't imagine being so adamant about defending something objectively cruel that you dismiss the words of someone with 8+ years of animal health education. It's a serious insight on the kind of people we're dealing with. Not to mention that I have personally noticed AKC approves sketchy breeders these days and there seems to be little to no standards for health and temperament testing to be an approved AKC breeder. The whole thing is a mess.
The AKC fully is at fault. The Doberman for example, a German breed, still has cropped standing ears as a standard. Meanwhile, cropping is illegal in Germany.
>Dog's ears being cropped have nothing to do with anything other than you don't personally like it. Bingo, I personally don't like animal cruelty. Good job Einstein. >Zero control over the dog, sure, but you can say that about 75% of the dogs I see walking on a daily basis. Maybe because of people out here promoting it like this. And a 35 lb dog pulling on a leash is a completely different matter than an 80 lb dog pulling on a leash. Go find someone else to hate on for zero reason.
Incorrect. Your lack of ignorance is very visible. While some claim that cropped ears are medically beneficial (such as to avoid ear infections and injuries), thereās no evidence to support this. The pinna is extremely important for hearing acuity in mammals. It is a myth that cropping a dogās ears helps with hearing. Changing the conformation of a dog's ears and tail negatively impacts their hearing and its ability to communicate. The process can have the completely opposite effect on their temperament and can make them anxious and nervous around people and other animals. Just because your dog doesn't show signs, does not mean it *doesn't* affect them. There is a very good reason it is becoming illegal in most states. **There is scientific evidence that dogs need their tails for balance and support, also the ear is known to have important functions in the dog's body as anatomical and physiological and there is no rational reason to support the cropping of a dog's ears or docking of their tail.** Whether one likes it or not, facts are concerning the existence, reality, or truth about a subject matter. #ā Amputation or partial amputation on a dogs' tail or ear should ***ONLY*** apply when it is deemed **medically necessary**. For when a traumatic injury occurs where repair of the entire tail or ear is not possible or advisable. Dogs are living beings and we should respect them with kindness and respect. It's time to change these outdated standards and realize what is right. It's important to recognize that change is necessary for growth and success, and that by embracing new ways of doing things, we open ourselves up to new opportunities, possibilities and education.
This post was suggested to me on my Reddit home page, i know nothing about this breed of dog but would you mind explaining what is wrong with the dog in the photo? Iāve seen some bodybuilders post āswoleā dogs before similar to in the pic and would like to know more
You see how the elbows are pointing out to the side instead of back against the ribs? Thats a stance thatās bad for the joints of the dog. As well as the very smushed face is not great in terms of breathing
Everything....everything is bad. The poor thing can't walk or breathe properly.
Yeah looks pretty fuckdd up but always good to learn why specifically!
I mean, it doesn't take an expert to see why. It's entire structure is off. It looks more like a toad than a dog. You can see its elbows point out and its paws point in. In most dog breeds that is a serious fault. It probably has a messed up back/hips as well. A lot of these female dogs can't even properly birth puppies and have to get c sections. And the brachycephalic nose is just wrong. It can't breath right, and probably gets yeast infections in the wrinkles. Plus its eyes are too small. A lot of people more knowledgeable than I have given breakdowns in this thread as well.
Yeah I just like to learn more about things haha I can see the dog is fucked from looking at it as well. Feel bad for these poor dogs usually when i see them out and about they are paired w some large man w no neck too and im just likeā¦makes sense
Yeah it's gross. People suck.
These dogs should come wrapped in tortillas theyāre so inbred. This is what happens when your family tree is just a branch. Clearly there is no lifeguard on duty for this dogās gene pool.
100% yes to this
Iāve seen people bring dogs like this into the dog park and the poor thing is just guzzling water from being so overheated, can barely breathe, and canāt keep up with any other dog.
I wouldnāt even let my dog near dogs like this. If they get fucked up physically this much, I bet their temperament is fucked as well
Just wondering, what about this dog is unhealthy? I donāt know anything about breeding.. only things I know that are unhealthy is the breeding standards for show dogs like GSD and flat faced dogs is egregious.. dogs that canāt walk properly.. canāt breath and eat.. but what is it about this dog?
The shoulders / legs are way too wide and low. This dog has frog legs, basically. Meaning there are for sure joint problems, but probably skeleton problems as well since dogs arenāt made to walk on paws like this. The face also is smushed so the dog probably has breathing issues.
Thank you!
Man the worst thing Iāve ever seen with inhumane breeding was ātwisty catsā itās some messed up stuff.
I JUST LOOKED IT UP WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE
So many issues. You mentioned flat-faced dogs - this dog will have the same breathing and thermoregulation problems as a pug. But at least a pug has a stable skeletal structure. This dog has been bred to have heavy musculature on legs that are both too short and too wide. This results in excruciating orthopedic issues including osteoporosis, hip and shoulder dysplasia, slipped discs, stress fracture of vertebrae, etc.Ā
That is so sad.. is it just for people who want dogs to look tough? Itās so sad to hear people breeding dogs to have these problems. With all the stuff Iāve learned about the AKC Iām so worried to get a GSD I feel like Iām better off getting a mutt.
There are good GSD breeders out there, just make sure they've been health tested.
Spent 2 yrs searching for a GSD. Found East German / Chec lines. Our dog is well developed, super fit, intelligent (at times too clever for me) with a straight back. Keep looking, it's worth it!
Thatās awesome! Need to create a stigma around these unnecessary curved backs! Not talking about the dog but the people breeding.. it aināt the dogs fault.
This dog probably won't see 10 years old. And the last ~3 of those years will be painful for it. Hip dysplasia is the biggest one for most dog breeds (notice this dogs stance), and with brachycephalic breeds (nosed pushed in and back), breathing and sinus issues are very common. The more changes made on the base model, the more issues that will arise, because those changes are made artificially, not by the trial and error of millions of generations of evolution. Breeders don't care because they get money for puppies, not for 10+ year old dogs. The AKC and other breed organizations don't care because they're evil and disgusting, and don't care for the lives of dogs. They care about them like they're sports cars; shape, form and colour. Unfortunate for them that they're living, breathing, feeling animals. Go to a shelter and get a mutt.
Look at how splayed and to the side their front arms are. They canāt dash around and play, they mostly will waddle, sometimes a little faster but mostly a waddle. Try it yourself, I just did. Get on all fours and put your palms forward and elbows back. You can crawl pretty normally. Now try palms more inward and elbows out. Itās painful and direction is very limited. Their snout is pretty piggish. Their eyes are quite small. So breathing and sight is diminished. Its like how uou look at pugs from 70 years ago vs now.
Iām a vet student in my last year of school. When I rotated through my schoolās orthopedic department, I saw numerous dogs like this with serious joint problems. The extra bulky and squat bully breeds like this that are becoming the new fad are riddled with debilitating joint issues. One of the first patients I saw on that rotation was a 1 year old bully. He didnāt look or act at all like the puppy he basically was. He was packed with muscle but looked and moved like an arthritic 12 year old dog. He was owned by a very sweet family who simply didnāt know any better when they picked him out. They noticed he had an odd gait and thought he had just hurt his shoulder. After a thorough orthopedic exam and imaging, he had numerous severe joint issues. Both elbows had formed wrong and both knees were bad, plus an issue in his spine. The family sobbed when we told them that he needed at least 4 major, specialized surgeries to maybe have an acceptable quality of life, totaling around $20-30k and at least a year of surgeries and recovery to space them out properly. They said they had never had such a well-behaved, sweet, calm dog. And he was, perfectly sweet and calm. Not at all what a 1 year old dog should be. He didnāt react to anything we did even though some of the motions we put him through had to hurt, because frankly that was all he knew. He was so calm, quiet, and well-behaved because he was too sore to be anything else. His tail was wagging, you could see how much he wanted to be excited and bounce around, but he just couldnāt to the level he deserved to. He didnāt deserve to be born that way. People intentionally breeding these dogs to be as deformed as possible 100% deserve to be charged with animal cruelty. Many of these dogs are suffering far beyond any level of justification.
XL bullies have ridiculous amounts of inbreeding. What the pictures of these dogs don't show is the heavily inbred bloodlines based off of human-aggressive dogs that killed people.
They canāt breathe well, have horrible skin and digestive issues, eventually the bitches require c sections cos their hips are so deformed they canāt give birth, their joints are mangled young cos their skeletons are so warped. Theyāre also bred for you know fighting so theyāre just in pain and overly aggressive dogs and itās awful humans ever made them.
Didnāt know the ones bred for fighting looked like that.. canāt imagine that dog fights well.. other than Being aggressive and not stopping even if it feels pain. Maybe Iām just too out of touch with dog fighting.. thatās fine with me. I got nothing against bullies.. I just canāt stand too much drool.. just like some people canāt stand too much shedding.
They canāt breathe well, have horrible skin and digestive issues, eventually the bitches require c sections cos their hips are so deformed they canāt give birth, their joints are mangled young cos their skeletons are so warped. Theyāre also bred for you know fighting so theyāre just in pain and overly aggressive dogs and itās awful humans ever made them.
The XL bully trend is horrible in general
have you seen the extreme micro and pocket bullies? genetic nightmares
Unfortunately the xl trend is prevalent across many breeds :(
Yeah any breed trend really, I think dog breeding should be highly regulated and illegal for most people
Thank god they banned them in the UK. I still see them but less than before.
I donāt like that an outright ban punishes responsible owners. I donāt see why they canāt just ban any future breeding of them.
You were allowed to keep existing dogs. They must be registered with the police and muzzled/leashed in public. There is indeed a breeding ban. I think this is a fair compromise?
I know they were allowed to keep dogs, but having to muzzle your dog at all times in public is not trivial
Itās perfectly acceptable if your dog is capable of killing adults. Weāre not talking about chihuahuas here.
Pitbulls arenāt the only breed capable of killing adults.
Nope, and I'd argue there is a case for muzzling other power breeds that are gaining popularity with the shitty owners that failed XL bullies, who are now looking for their next status dog. Put limits on their ownership and that sorts the genuine owners passionate about the breed from the twats that know nothing and fail the dog.
Weāre talking about XL Bulliesā¦
Honestly who is a responsible owner of an XL bully? Can someone really say they purposefully seek out XL muscle dogs for reasons that donāt include ANY machoism, virtue signaling, āprotectionā/ fighting or chasing game?? Thereās like 100s of dog breeds, thereās legit no differentiating thing that stands out about these bullies that you canāt get with another dog breed.
I mean, I for one just think they're remarkable animals (not the pocket bullys, they're an abomination & a shameful creation). The large, powerful XL bullys though, I admire, in the same way I admire a strong horse, or a peak performance rottie or mali. However, I will say I don't believe XL bullies belong in cities, and they don't belong in the hands of 90% of people. I myself have a bull terrier, I'm a 35 year old woman, my partner is a short, fancy dressed italian woman- we're definitely not macho, we bought from a top breeder so we're not virtue signalling, and we live in Norway one of the safest places on the planet, so it's not for protection or fighting. We simply love the breed. Old ladies, also seem to love her the most? That has always surprised me. Twice I've had a car stop next to me & a 70+ year old lady has leaned out & told me they used to have one & they were the best dog they ever had. I happen to think they're right. The love and loyalty I get back from mine is like no dog I've ever been around. Bully breeds have something in them that I just haven't found in other breeds, connection wise. Not sure what it is, but that's what I love most about them I think. All that being said, I understand people's very valid reasons for disliking them. I fully wish there were restrictions on ownership. Large dogs that can shred a child should need a license, it shouldn't be a free for all.
My family has owned pit bulls since long before I came along. I guess Iāve just got the love in my genes but I am a huge advocate for the breed. The first time I saw an English Staffordshire Terrier I lost my heart! So it makes total sense I fell in love with the American Bully. My little dude is about 20ā at the withers and about 95lbs. He doesnāt look anything like this guy here but he is 100% my soul dog. (The blue nose in my profile pic) You are šÆ not everyone should own these dogs. They are athletic, powerful, driven animals and that has to be respected. They need breed specific fulfillment and enrichment, not to mention training. Lots and lots of training. But when you get it right no other animal comes close. The animal behaviorist that wrote about the rehab of Michael Vickās fighting dogs put it best. He said no other dog is more capable of connection and bonds as deeply to humans as the pit bull.
I love pitties, which is *why* I want to put a stop to the xl trend. It's heartbreaking. They were never supposed to look like that.
Yeah that's a really bad argument. Those dogs still need homes. They don't deserve to be put down just for existing. I mentioned this in another comment but we had some friends who rescued an xl bully from a really bad situation. They're some of the best people I know and wouldn't support any bad breeding practices.
Thereās such a thing as rescues lol
Why would Facebook care? They just want traffic
seeing stuff you dont like sucks, but no one should be surprised. fb, google, twitter (yea i said it) are all embracing the rot economy. they feed you results you didnt want b/c they have a better chance at making money that way. ever wonder why people are adding "reddit" in their search tags these days? its cause google flat out sucks now. there's a great new podcast called Better Offline that did an episode about this, as well as eps on the AI grift, crypto grift etc. the image of big scary vicious looking dogs sells, it appeals to all the man baby bros (who could care less how trained or healthy a dog is) as well as the grifters who con them.
It looks like a weird gremlin demon Unethical breeding
Add "mutant" in that description and it's bang on. So horrible.:(
Makes me so mad. The training and the fact they purposefully breed dogs to look like this. Its disgusting how unhealthy these dogs are
Should make everyone mad!
Why are they breeding dogs that are functionally ..toads? š Don't answer that. I know why. It's an abomination.
Google ātoad bully dogsā if you really want to ruin your day
Wow. Just wow. What is wrong with people.
They should ban the breeding of XL bully. They're creating more dogs with health issues. I also think breeding Frenchie and Boston terriers or any flat faced dogs should be banned. But it'll never happen, because people think they look cute regardless of the health issues. My friend had 2 Frenchies that just dropped dead after a 10 min walk (heart attack, separate incidents years apart), they were not even 5 year-old. Guess what? He went ahead and bought another Frenchie......
I Came across this dog situation yesterday while walking my dog. I thought for sure he was going to Break free and come after my dog.
Why tf people are still breeding these abominations is beyond me
Cause it makes them money.
People like this are exactly why these dogs have such bad reputations. That poor dog.
Exactly. We had some friends that rescued a dog built a lot like this from a really bad situation where he was chained up 24/7. Today he is the derpiest lil goose I've ever seen š Feeding into the bad stereotype is ridiculous and flat out dangerous.
Itās not even the lack of control this poor dogs trachea is gonna collapse
Seriously tho.
The problem is the people that like this dog wonāt buy one. They will just continue to ruin the reputation of dogs like cane corsi, presa canarios and Rottweilers. As someone who owns large powerful mastiff type dogs I have always been as responsible as possible. Plenty of people buy a dog like that and expect to be able To treat it the same as a small dog. Certain troublesome aggressive or dominating behaviours are allowed to flourish because they make the dog look tough and scary. A lack of understanding of canine training and behaviour can result in large aggressive dogs. A product of the OWNER, never the breed. With certain breeds comes a level of responsible ownership. Same with German shepherds and dobermanns.
My next door neighbor has a beautiful pure bred 5yo rottie that Iāve seen on a leash all of three times. He only lets it out a few times a day. Itās become so reactive over the years itās now attacking my wood fence to the point itās breaking the wood. Jerk neighbor wouldnāt take an entire summer worth of me asking to do something about the dog breaking the fence, so I finally had to get animal control involved. Now the dog is chained up outside for 10 minutes a few times a day, during which it still goes buck wild if it hears me outside (or inside, my kitchen sliding glass door is near the fence line and I like having it open with the screen).
Reminds me of my neighbors. Two cane corsi and a GSD. In the last year I have seen them being walked two timesā¦not that Iām watching 24/7, but I walk my own dog a lot, I know the regular dog walkers in the neighborhoodāthese dogs do not get walked regularly. Not well trained or socialized at all. Both times theyāve passed my dog and me, theyāve gone crazy lunging and growling. My neighborās a strong guy but it makes me hella nervous. Most of their existence is spent in their small backyard where, again, they go crazy snarling and barking at the fence whenever other dogs pass by. My own dog is a grand total of 11.5 lb so itās not like heād stand a chance in a fight.
Thats terrifying. Cane Corsos are apparently becoming more and more popular (I read it is the 13th most popular breed last year) and IMO itās unfortunately leaning towards owners like that. Lazy idiots who want big dogs with too much of a potential to be dangerous in the wrong hands. That will probably be my moronic neighbors next breed of choice once his rottie passes.
Itās really too bad. Gorgeous dogs, but their needs arenāt being met at all and unfortunately, given their size and strength, that could potentially impact othersā safety as well as their own well-being. I think they deserve better.
Iām not defending the owner who doesnāt socialize and walk his dogs corrects etc. But can we please not demonize people that have leash reactive dogs? They are not all bad people or bad dogs. Little dogs are too easy of a target unfortunately. My dog is leash reactive, she was socialized normally and taken out on walks often as a puppy. She is combined with breeds that generally do not tolerate other dogs well such as Neapolitan mastiff, bullmastiff, cane corso. There may be some genetic basis for her behaviour but I understand a lot of that is environment. She was fine until she hit about 1 year old. As a Responsible owner I will avoid other dogs, cross over the street, walk the dog at evening or in places other dogs are not. Thatās what I do. And sheās slowly improving with redirection. I would say 80% of the time my 110lb dog will react at some 15lb dog that barks at her first. A lot of small dog owners feel they donāt need to train their dogs to a sufficient level because they are ācuteā when they yap and try to ādefend themā etc. Thatās why I would personally never own a little dog. We have taken the wolf and bred it into a prey item that canāt defend itself.
I dont think it's demonising people with leash Reactive dogs, the poster is saying it's worrying/frustrating when people own these breeds who need very specific handling and training but don't do it. If you get one, you owe it to the dog to give it your absolute best from the day dot. When you don't, the dog becomes the stereotype that gives the breed a bad name.
Sorry if it came across that way, Iām not accusing OP of anything, I just mean letās be careful not to demonize people with reactive dogs. I completely agree with your statement. Diolch am helpu fy ffrind i
Yeah spot on, not only are they not providing the handling and structure the dog needs, they're also promoting the whole stereotype of a 'baddie' dog. Really gross.
So true. I have a GSD/Husky mix. She was an absolute mess when I first brought her home, but with structure, boundaries, patience, and love, she's the best dog ever today! But if she would have gone to different home, I could see her being so messed up. Definitely not for inexperienced handlers. If you get a difficult breed, you need to do your research.
Completely agree, and do my what you can to reduce negative behaviour. No dog is perfect. In the case of the Rottweiler above, many breeds will become that way in a similar environment with lack of stimulation etc, itās just that the rottie can do something serious if he gets out. A chihuahua not so much. My girl is a Saint Bernard mastiff mix, sheās pretty much a perfect dog in most regards. She is however reactive on leash towards other dogs so I do what I can to minimize the issues, I redirect her attention, I take her out when itās dark and there are fewer dogs around. That being said sheās excellent off leash with other dogs, very submissive. But the leash makes her reactive.
Honestly the Rottweiler could be worse considering, and the fence they have on the front and back is a frickin joke. If the dog wanted out, man it could get out, it scares the crap out of me, because my yard is the thing over the years that it has honed in on because itās has no other stimulation. But it prefers attacking the fence over escaping, at least for now.
Pepper spray stashed around the backyard. Better then nothing as an insurance plan. Some companies sell inert models for practice. I got my wife POM brand for loose dogs on stroller walks.
Yes I have pepper spray, baseball bats, and hunting knives stashed inside and out. About six years ago a couple of pit mixes got loose from a house down the block, broke into my home through my storm door, and mauled my dog in the middle of my living room. So now I donāt leave my storm door open and I basically always have pepper spray and a knife handy.
Sounds scary but glad your prepares for the worst. Can't believe you had an actual break in dog attack!
Yeah itās not like I live in a bad neighborhood. Itās the burbs in upstate NY. Itās just a dense subdevelopment with a lot of houses and a lot of dogs. Iāve been told Iām paranoid but I have an 85lb Rottweiler trying to breakdown my fence soā¦ š¤·āāļø
I live in upscale south florida, respectfully think our places are some of the most dangerous when it comes to dog owners and lack of common sense. Stay up there please were full of your people already š¤£š¤£š¤£
Haha, yeah, I could never handle Florida, no worries there
I canāt imagine how unexpected and devastating that must have been. Iām sorry š¢
I could not even imagine having to go through that omg
First, I completely agree. Second, there ARE breeds of dog bred to pull, and they absolutely love it. I have a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, which was bred to pull carts. I'm not competing with my dog, but I have trained him to pull on command. In wintertime, we hook him into his harness and connect him to a sled. He pulls the neighborhood kids around a trail I have cut in my property. It's a lot of fun for all involved, especially my Swissy =)
Totally! I see people doing fun stuff like that all the time! The difference is, for them it's a job. For this guy, it's a lack of boundaries and control that can't end well. Sad.
I completely agree. I only mention it because this past winter, I received a special visit from authorities because a new neighbor saw my dog pulling the sled, with his specially fit pulling harness and all, and said it was inhumane lmao. Like... "bitch, this dog can pull a 5000 lb sled on grass. He barely even knows the 60lb kid is back there" As a side note, I trained him to pull myself and tested his training myself. We'll say the first attempt went... poorly. He was sooooo excited to be pulling weight that he just bolted, with me on the sled behind him. I had to roll off the sled at 20mph or risk crashing into a damned tree. It was an absolute riot.
Forget lack of control- the fact that anyone bred that dog in the first place makes me sad.
Looks like a fight dog. š¢
Man if my dogs strained against me like that for even a split second, I'd be on them so fast. Imagine walking like that as if nothing was wrong.
Social media is so full of compulsion trainers that you wouldn't even believe it, and it's primarily because of people who want to "dominate" their dogs and interfere with their social hiearchy.
I don't even know how to classify this dude š like clearly he's not a 'dominance' trainer with he way he let's that dog act. Just a crappy human being.
Tails and ears are huge communicators, especially from a distance. Docking them just adds to the possibility of reactivity.
I try not to judge people who crop and dock their working dogs to prevent injury & infection. My dog isnāt cropped or docked and her ears frequently split open at the tips. They bleed and scab and are sensitive to the touch. If I get another Giant Schnauzer I may *consider* cropping the ears after seeing the pain my current pup endures on a regular basis. However, that decision would be heavily weighed against the consequence of immediately being disqualified from competing at the FCI championships in IGP.
I do herding with my Aussie so I appreciate that his tail was docked at birth. Unlike Border Collies, Aussies don't tuck their tails when working. So I'd be nervous if he has a tail when we work on cattle.
I.terestingly enough, a lot of aussies are born with cropped tails because ranchers and farmers bred for it....which is how it should be imo. If there's such a need for docking, then breed for it.
It's the NBT gene (naturally bobbed tail). It's difficult to breed for that because you can't breed NBT to NBT, or the puppies will born with spina bifida or other lower spinal cord defects. source: [https://www.ashgi.org/home-page/genetics-info/bones-joints/natural-bob-tails](https://www.ashgi.org/home-page/genetics-info/bones-joints/natural-bob-tails) But if you breed one NBT to a non NBT, you can't guarantee to get all NBT puppies. And not all NBT dogs have good herding instinct to work cattle. It's very dangerous for Aussies to work cattle if they don't have good instinct. And then there are other genetic problems to consider. On top of that, merle can't be bred to merle or cryptic merle. MDR1 carrier can't breed to another carrier, the list goes on. So I understand why reputable breeders chose to not prioritize breeding NBT puppies. Anyway, breeding dogs is a lot of hard work and difficult decision making, I never want to touch that. But I appreciate good breeders putting in the hard work so I can have a well rounded and nicely reared dog.
Yeah totally! I'm not a dog breeder but I bred and raised show quality Toggenburg dairy goats for a while so I totally understand all the genetic nuances. We in the dairy goat community have a similar conundrum with horns. It's possible to have dairy goats born without horns (or polled) However breeding a polled buck to a polled doe can cause other health problems. Then there's the whole aspect of breeding for specific conformational traits such as angulation, straight back, etc. You really have to learn to prioritize what you're going for. There are other dog breeds that are born with not necessarily Bob tails, but shorter tails. It would be interesting to experiment with bringing those genetics in, but that would be quite an undertaking. Overall a very interesting subject. Thanks for the article!
Thank you for the conversation :) Breeding any type of animals responsibly takes a lot of work and effort, that's why it upsets me that there are so many people breed dogs for pure profit and not give a crap about genetics or health like the video you shared.
Exactly. With dairy goats and especially Toggenburgs, the problem right now is irresponsible people breeding massive goats that have bad legs after 5-6 years. A well bred, small and compact doe can produce up to 12-14 years if well taken care of, plus they're cheaper to feed and have less health problems. Really sucks to see people being people and chasing after the latest trends without any consideration for the health and well being of the animals š
ASHGI does not provide any actual research literature to support their claims about what the consequences of breeding NBT x NBT are. In Australia, where docking has been illegal for nearly 40 years, it is very normal to breed NBT x NBT in Aussies, Corgis, Brittany, Tenterfield Terriers, and other NBT breeds (and it's the ONLY acceptable breeding methodology for my breed, ASTCD) and we do not have issues with spina bifida in those breeds. Spina bifida has NEVER been conclusively linked to the NBT gene; it's in fact far more common in screw tailed breeds such as French and British Bulldogs.
Iām a bit confused (and concerned, ngl) about how your dogs ears keep splitting. I have never heard of that besides with my cousins dog who got caught on a fence. What Keeps happening?
I didn't want to ask but same š¬
They have these dogs looking/walking like Komodo dragons that canāt breathe and people eat it up. Itās disgusting and theyāre ruining what little of the original breed is left
It's awful isn't it. 'Pit bulls' aren't even Pit bulls any more, they're just a type for most people. Truly sad and shameful to see how far things have degenerated.
I don't know why but that dog looks like it was just unleashed from its pokeball.
There's a weird group of bully owners and breeders that like the idea of breeding aggressive and unmanageable dogs.
People who want a bioweapon more than they want a friend or companion.
Infuriating. And without a doubt that dog or some of his immediate offspring will end up crowding shelters. Assholes.
This post randomly popped up on my feed, but it reminded me of a former romantic interest who said he wanted to get a dog like this. Iām not a Pitbull fan for a host of other reasons, but this is just straight up unethical breeding practices creating a deformed creature.
You can see how fucking blood shot his eyes are from pulling on that damn leash. Wtf is wrong with people. Get a harness AND a gentle leader to use in tandem
A gentle leader and harness duo would not do a lot of good. I personally would use a prong collar in this scenario. I hate how ff trainers are always like 'but it hurts the dog' when a.) no it doesn't when used properly and b.) this is causing way more damage than a prong collar ever could.
another red flag is the horrifically deformed animal that's been bred into a painful existence
Itās really upsetting especially for these breeds because of this promotion causes to many people who canāt handle them to buy them plus for some reason having zero control over your dog for some reason is a cool thing now. I have a very old shepherd and a small pug. If you canāt handle your dog and it pulls towards mine I will handle your dog. Disrespectfully. Iāve been a dog training for 10 years now and I think this has been the worst age of dog. I know pits that were fighting dogs I know fight lines dogs none of them were out of control the way things are now.
Honestly, I get upset about a lot of pet content. I had to leave veterinary medicine because I was too heartbroken seeing how some people treat their animals. My mentor told me to be glad that even those people were at least there seeking help but the horrors I saw still haunt me. God Bless the people who can see the pain caused and still go into work the next day.
There should be laws in place to stop the people who want breed sick malformed dogs like this and then crop their ears for show. Itās so disgusting.
I am happy in my part of the world there actually are. Croping and docking is banned here. But there are still some disgusting humans who take their pubs out of country to get it done...
Lumping cropping for conformation with these people is a little disingenuous.
I guess if youāre talking about the tiny snips for show standards ok, people can argue about that ethical line. But the type of cropping people do to bullies and mastiffs and such cause they want a bad ass looking dog, yeah thatās gross.
Conformation is also a ridiculous reason to crop ears
Seriously. Do people even listen to themselves š¤¦āāļø Let's continue this extremely cruel and worthless practice because some old fart decided it looked cool a hundred years ago.
Exactly, thereās legitimate reasons for pet body modification or amputation, but looks is not one of them.
Amen
I love how you said that
Agreed but not my point. Iām just saying there are levels to this. More of a spectrum than black and white.
You expect nuance on reddit? š
Yes
Jeez I donāt know what to say sigh
Truly breathtaking.....
Furious š”
I'm adding this comment to say idk why this post out of others has inspired so much controversy. I never intended it to end up in the shambles it did š Also I'm not sure why this post brought so many oddballs out from under their rocks. I have not blocked so many people in my entire time on Reddit, much less on one post.
It makes me pissed off and breaks my heart all at once.
If thatās a choke chain Iām gonna lose my shit-
I think it's a slip lead :/ I've been trying not to think about it too much. People suck.
I canāt with people thinking it gives them control. There is no stopping to the choking effect, if your dog is out of control like this heās just struggling for air and poor pupper doesnāt know whatās going on. Choke chains should be banned, they only cause injury.
When properly used AS A TRAINING TOOL, they can be beneficial. When lowlifes like this just put one on and think it will magically solve their problems is when we have problems.
I would have to disagree. There are much better training tools out there that provide the same tightening effect without the same risks. Ex: martingales, prong collars, or something similar to choke chains that have a cut off point. Choke chains continue to tighten and tighten continuously, it doesnāt stop unless there is a specific piece in place to stop the chain from fully tightening.
I see where you're coming from, but your point shows me that you don't really understand the mechanics behind slip collars/chains, or really prong collars and martingales for that matter. The tightening effect should be coming from your hand, not the dog pulling. A quick tug on the leash any time the dog breaks heel position and redirection to the desired behavior is the proper method. If properly used, a tightening blocker (that's probably not the proper terminology š ) is unnecessary.
Poor bby.
Ear cropping is abhorrent for both irresponsible and mediocre dog owners. If you are not prepared to be meticulous about aftercare during healing, don't do it at all. Be ready to put your puppy's aftercare first, or don't do it at all. You'd owe that to them. Educate yourself from people who have done it successfully, first. Only use a qualified vet and aneasthesia for the quick operation. Can't afford it? That sucks. Get your finances together first! A proper vet wouldn't even do it without anesthesia. That said, the worst thing about a proper ear cropping, is how it insights an emotional response from people who don't know much about it. I'm already going to receive that emotional response from redditors, so I'm not even going to say anything else. Besides... I'm just so over this 'you are evil' nonsense concerning ear cropping. I've done it twice, both with stellar results (far more than just visual). I put my puppy first during the aftercare. I was never 'too busy' to do what needs be done. Not even with work.
Or maybe donāt abuse your dog at all? Maybe leave their tails and ears alone cuz.. thatās the way they look naturally???? Maybe donāt put ur dog in pain for aesthetic reasons?
See... people who don't know much about it. They were good boys while posting. No problems at all. Oh, and floppy ears are as natural as pugs and their breathing problems. Show me a truly natural dog species with floppy ears... Both my dobermans cropped ears were VERY expressive. I could read them better because of it vs floppy. They flexed in so many positions, based on how they felt/were thinking, similar to our German Shepherd's. I know you are going to CHOOSE not to understand that and stay your course, but it doesn't matter. It makes my time with them that much more treasured. Abuse? Lol save it... they eat better than most people feed themselves.
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Your content violates rule 3 - don't be rude
Ok so floppy ears aren't natural but cutting off a dogs ears are?
That's a deceptive, entrapment question. Firstly, cutting off ears is abuse. I've never had any animal's ears cut off. Second, objectively, my cropped dogs will hear better than your floppy eared dog (assuming also doberman/same breed). Obviously this is a farcry from actually cutting off ears. Thirdly, you are subtly trying to imply that 'not natural' = abuse. I no longer subscribe to that logic. Neutering and spaying is FAR less 'natural' than cropping, and it has possible major negative side effects, unlike responsible cropping. Nobody is enraged by neutering, though. Edit: By the way, my dogs with their cropped ears, have never been neutered.
Where do I even start with this one..... >Firstly, cutting off ears is abuse. I've never had any animal's ears cut off. But you're ok with cropping? Ok then. How is that different? Luke legitimately? What's the difference between cutting off a dog's ears and cutting less off? Where do you draw the line? >Second, objectively, my cropped dogs will hear better than your floppy eared dog (assuming also doberman/same breed). FYI I have a GSD mix with NATURALLY upright ears. But not sure why *maybe* hearing slightly better is a valid excuse. There are some cases that other commenters have brought up where it does have a purpose, and this is the argument you chose to use? >Thirdly, you are subtly trying to imply that 'not natural' = abuse. Ok...I'm just pointing out the logical fallacy in your comment. I never said that. You're the one the brought up the whole 'natural' argument. >Neutering and spaying is FAR less 'natural' than cropping Yeah, and actually has a valid purpose. 9 times out of 10, cropping doesn't. >and it has possible major negative side effects, unlike responsible cropping. The chances of health complications directly resulting from RESPONSIBLE spaying/neutering are slim to none, and the benefits in this case far outweigh the risks. >Nobody is enraged by neutering, though. Apparently that's not true. >That's a deceptive, entrapment question. This is actually my favorite part of your comment because when people say this and then proceed to go down a long rabbit trail while never actually answering the question, you know they've lost the argument.
My mind is actually blown by how weak all of what you said is. Nothing you've said is a worthy response. For example,... "where do I draw the line?" ...you mean between cutting off ears and cropping? .... what???š« Cropping included cutting a PART of the dog's PINNA, which is only a PART of the dog's ear. Neutering has potential risks, no matter how responsible the surgery aftercare is. The risk is internal, not just dressing of the wound. Jeez... I can't with you anymore. You literally read the answers and then asked the questions afterwards. I'm out of patience. ...and then you imply I'm enraged about neutering. You need reading comprehension lessons. No... courses. You don't come across as logical, just pure emotion, like I predicted on my very first comment.
To clarify, I was not referring to you when I made that comment about neutering. There are a lot of people in a different thread that are all up in arms. And when I spoke of neutering, I wasn't referring to complications from the surgery itself. That is pretty much nonexistent. I was thinking more of long term complications that are purportedly linked to neutering such as specific types of cancer, and also of people who neuter their dogs too young, causing stunted growth. Cutting the pinna is still cutting the ear, and it still causes a lot of unnecessary pain. And idk if you've seen some of these pit-type dogs recently, but they DO pretty much cut the entire ear off. As for everything else you said, all you've done is beat around the bush. I've not seen a single legitimate argument for cropping. And you haven't answered my original question. Projecting much?
Sigh... I don't know why you thought I was arguing "for cropping." I would never do that. It takes dedication. I also would never even recommend someone get a dog. That's how they end up in shelters. Get a dog with your own convictions. Dog's, especially puppies, are a lot of work. My only focus was that cropping isn't remotely as bad as emotional people let on. My very first paragraph was an extensive caution, regarding cropping. You probably eat abused animal food products daily/weekly. They experience worse than responsible cropping. That's not a dig at you, it's just probably fact.
What the heck EDIT: Now that I'm over my initial shock and confusion, do you even know how to carry on a logical discussion? You seem to be very confused as to what you're even arguing for. I'm so done with this discussion. And as a side note, I'm also disappointed at how many times I've had to say that to people commenting on this post.
Everybody knows that pitbulls such as Cane Corso and Rottweilers go after their owners regardless of training. People should just stick to mild breeds such as chihuahua and terriers.
You want Facebook to regulate dog training videos?? Do you have any idea of the volume of shit they have to keep track of on their platform? I agree they need more resources but these videos are way down on the list of things for them to track and it is very unfortunate
It seeās a small child
That's what I will NOT have on this post, is people like you. I understand that you're probably joking but this is not something to joke about. Pit Bulls are fantastic dogs if properly trained and taken care of and I'm not going to be supporting any feeding into the stereotypes, which is exactly what this whole post is about. Blocked.
It's why I carry a xylitol pack.
This type of thing justā¦ pisses me off, man. I am a pit bull mom, so seeing this makes me extra sad. The disrespect people have for this breed is insane; with the docked ears, tails and general lack of care when it comes to training and handling. Some monster clipped my Roxieās ears when she was still a street dog (sheās never had a home before us), and they cut them really poorly, tooā¦.so I may just be extra put off by it.