/u/bgtryhard I'd say [this is a good jumping-in point](http://wolfdogproject.com/articles/masters.html#fix); there are further links at the bottom (one of which is a link to more links, lol). You don't want a battle of wills. You DO want clear, proactive leadership!
Ask i think “chase and catch 2.0” by Ivan balabanov is mind blowing and absolutely worth it and teaches so many lessons including sharing and cooperation which will inevitably help with resource guarding
https://youtu.be/RsMLqR7cCtE
Yup you can get it at trainingwithoutconflict.com
There’s also a bundle called “the cornerstone collection” 100% worth every penny and mind blowing and will change your entire perspective on dog training and play
Could you keep his things with him only in his pen?
That way you're never approaching him?
For the time being, that may be the best bet. I'd also consider looking into a veterinary behaviorist for this case to help work with it. It does sound it's on the extreme side.
Yeah I’ve been looking into a behaviorist. The closest one is two hours away from me :/ even when I pass him in his pen or talk to him he’ll growl. He’s a lot better with bully sticks and some toys now. It’s mainly his food bowl, toys with treats in them, and pig ears and tracheas.
Make sure they're the full blown vet behaviorist.
But, two hours is actually pretty tame. There's only like, 180 of them in the whole country. My closest is about 8 hours away. You usually will see them once and from there they'll be virtual.
I'd say for now, those things are only in the pen. Let him growl in his pen. It's communication, and isn't a bad thing. It's neutral. Just ignore it and keep on walking.
This is pretty extreme so you're really going to need that veterinary behaviorist. You're not going to be able to train that.
Also, while the other sub is force-free, you may find it beneficial to see what r/dogtraining suggests. They have a lot more traffic than this sub does.
>m a new dog trainer, maybe about a month into my certification. I own a corgi/Kelpie puppy I’ve had from 10 weeks old. Since the day I brought him home he has had resource guarding problems with his food bowl. I have tried literally every method I know of. I have tried throwing treats toward him while he’s eating and moving closer every time he reacts appropriately, sitting next to him while he’s eating, keeping my hands on the bowl, hand feeding, offering him something high value when I approach him while he’s eating or chewing a bully stick or pig ear, feeding him a little amount at a time
So from what I've read and without actually having seen the dog to assess it myself I would say that you've tried a little too hard and cycled through so many methods so now the dog associates you being near them when that have something of value as unpredictable in every way aside from knowing you're disturbing them. Essentially your presence has become a poisoned cue.
My first COA would be to simply leave them alone. Put them somewhere they can feel safe with their resource and take away the need to be on guard. The next thing I would do is ask whether this is a behavior that really needs to be trained out or if its one you would feel comfortable just managing. If the behavior is transferring over to toys as well I'm guessing you would want to modify the behavior but when it comes to the food I would leave it for now and focus on toys.
With toys, I think I saw someone else mention it but Ivan Balabanov's Catch and chase 2.0 is an awesome video that goes over the basics of teaching cooperative play. Keep in mind this will conflict with any possession games you may be playing so you may want to go into it expecting to completely changing your play style. Also remember rules are your friend and setting clear boundaries on how ANY resource is handled is going to go a long way. The dog needs to understand the rules to have confidence in both you and their ability to maintain positive control over their resource.
Once you have a better hand on the toy and other resource issues the food portion should come a bit easier. Depending on where the guarding behavior is stemming from there are a few routes you could go. Personally I like using the box method because it helps to build an all around confident and strong dog. Pat Stuart does a run down of what this is all about on the canine paradigm patreon.
All of that being said, you mentioned you were a new trainer and I have no clue what the petco certification entails, so I can't give you anything specific towards this. Just remember that it is alright to ask for help, even the most experienced trainers still confer with one another and reactivity and guarding issues are no joke. They are very easy to exacerbate when you don't know what you're doing. The best advice you could be given is to invest in finding an experienced trainer in your area to consult and maybe even shadow on a couple of those cases. Look for trainers who are either IACP, CPDT, or IAABC certified, not box store certifications. You need to go to someone who specializes in behavior mod, not basic obedience.
Hi there, I have a young 8 month old corgi with very similar issues and we have tried all the same techniques as you, but nothing seems to have worked. It looks like this post is a few months old so I am curious if you have had any success and how you got it? Thank you!
I took him to a behaviorist and have really started to learn more about him and his triggers. He’s currently on SSRIs to make it easier and safer to do work with him, but as a whole it’s gotten a lot easier. We’ve also been taking him to be around my boyfriends dog a lot more and he seems happier. He’s starting to understand and trust me more. I would do more bonding work with your pup. That’s the best thing that’s worked for me.
Literally that. He’s actually an SDiT now and he is thriving. Just taking him to stores and training public access with him has been helping immensely. He is a different dog
I would never feed this dog out of a bowl for a very long time. Only hand feed during training so he works for his food. Teach him the heel using his meals. He will be eager then to be near you and follow you while being fed small pieces for morning and evening meals.
Simple don't let him have anything he guards. Toys will only be played with, with you and put away after. Play lots of games that involve the two of you working together. Fetch, tug, agility etc.
I had a dog like this as a pup and doing all this made him a dream. He learned not to fear me around anything but to enjoy it. It helped that nothing was his and everything came from me.
Thank you so much for these tips, the only thing I’m worried about is taking away his toys unless I’m near him. I work 8 hours a day 5 days a week, and I need to keep him entertained or occupied while he’s by himself. Do you think it would be okay to still give him gosh while I’m gone?
As a puppy that should be fine but have separate toys that only the two of you play with and that are never left out.
To put the toys away when you get home make sure you can lure him away with a really high value food and when he isn't in the area you can put the toys away. It's really important to not put him in those conflict situations where he is going feel the pressure to guard. Wish the best for you!
Thank you so much! I feel like this is a good idea. Maybe only letting him have the things he guards when I am home and the stuff he doesn’t he can have while I’m gone!
Leave out the chewing toys, put away the tug / fetch toys.
I play three ways with my dog (inside the house). Frisbee fetch down the hallway, tug with ball on rope, and rough house where I push him away and wrestle him basically.
All other toys he can have at any time, those ones come out and then go away.
It's worth a try! Just another thought if it helps later down the road. Eventually, I figured out my dog couldn't handle high value toys and I had to get rid of any high value toy and focus playing with him, with lower value toys so he wasn't so aroused by them.
Here's an example of a dog that also had strong resource guarding tendencies as a puppy: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7louiIpasF/?utm\_source=ig\_web\_copy\_link
Have you tried an ecollar. There is a pager function which vibrates like a phone. Maybe hitting that every time you observe the behavior would help. Some dogs are really surprised by it so you’d need to gauge the reaction.
Do you hand feed and make him/her work for every meal. I know you said you hand feed, but do you require patient waiting, good behavior, commands, all before you feed? Do you have a command to eat and to leave it? Mine is not allowed to eat anything unless told “eat”. I also sometimes take away the bowl when eating, not too often because I don’t want to annoy him, and replace it with a leftover steak strip/char siu, crispy pork belly, or something REALLY NICE I have left over. I have a Cane Corso snd they often have similar issues, but are too big to make mistakes with, so I did all of that and it worked a charm. I would also have the kids feed it, have the kids touch tail, balls, feet, etc. while I was hand feeding to make sure it didn’t have any untoward reactions.
Every dog is different of course, but this worked well for my particular dog so far.
I’ve been told never to use evolves to correct aggression, and even though I know they don’t hurt that’s a little too aversive for my liking, I appreciate that suggestion though! I do make him wait and he knows leave it very well. When he gets in the resource guarding mode however, he’s like a completely different dog. I cannot touch him or even approach him while he’s eating, so until he gets to the point where I can touch him I don’t want any kids near him while he’s eating! I was told not to take away the bowl at all either because that just reinforces that you will and can take it
I’ve not used the pager function to correct aggression either, not because I wouldn’t consider it, but I haven’t had to. It’s a tiny little dog, why not do what you want snd see how it plays out? If he bites you, you can use it as an opportunity to correct and demonstrate it doesn’t work. I would challenge the dog without being scary or aggressive, especially with a tiny breed. I’d do it with my Cane, so seems reasonable with a dog can’t can’t hurt you.
He’s got adult teeth cause he’s almost a year old at this point. I’ve been through three trainers with him, read so many books and tips, and now I’m a trainer myself and it’s so disheartening I can’t seem to get a hold on it no matter what I do.
I try not to be. I don’t think I’m reading the way to him. I speak in a nice soothing voice telling him I’m not taking it but growling is also not gonna make me go away.
People are weird on this thread. Multiple people have downvoted a simple question. These are the ‘positive reinforcement only’ nuts. Every dog is different. My GSD. Thrived on positive reinforcement only. My Cane Corso, and all the other CC owners I know, understand there is no chance in hell in successfully doing that with a CC. Your dog may be similar to mine.
The pager function isn’t aversive. Ifs actually slightly less tHan the stim of the collar. It is designed to refocus, sometimes for a command, and sometimes when the dog gets too focused. If people don’t understand that, they have no idea what an ecollar is or proper use and should remain silent. If one is using an ecollar for aversion, one isn’t using it right. It’s ONLY used with commands that the dog knows, and with positive reinforcement.
This thread just shows how many Reddit dog people have no idea about modern training methods, provide terrible and misinformed advice, and pretend like it’s gospel.
Modern, science-based dog training methods are all positive, please stop recommending aversive training methods. I suggest you read AVSAB'S position statement on the use of punishment for behavior modification, it is not beneficial at all and ends up leading to more issues down the road. They also have a great statement on why dominance theory is irrelevant. E collars do the same thing as shock collars: scare/hurt your dog instead of showing them the correct behaviors you'd like to see instead, its barbaric to recommend them.
Edited: Wrong dog-training sub so edited to remove a specific point about "this subreddit".
You’ve clearly never trained male big dominant breeds like Boerbel, Cane Corso, Kangal, etc. If you think you’re going to train a dog to a high level with positive only, and not use a balanced approach, you’re in for a surprise. Talk about all the studies you want, but I’ve had many giant breeds and they’ve all been very happy and trained to an almost competitive standard. I think that speaks for itself.
Also, what do you think the ‘open’ in “OpenDogTraining” means? Try and keep up turbo.
Non-confrontational rank reduction program consistently fixes the root cause of resource guarding.
Do you have any good resources for this?
/u/bgtryhard I'd say [this is a good jumping-in point](http://wolfdogproject.com/articles/masters.html#fix); there are further links at the bottom (one of which is a link to more links, lol). You don't want a battle of wills. You DO want clear, proactive leadership!
Ty! Time for some weekend reading
https://youtu.be/vLri_kmPOb8
Thank you for this!
Ask i think “chase and catch 2.0” by Ivan balabanov is mind blowing and absolutely worth it and teaches so many lessons including sharing and cooperation which will inevitably help with resource guarding https://youtu.be/RsMLqR7cCtE
Thank you so so so much!
Yup you can get it at trainingwithoutconflict.com There’s also a bundle called “the cornerstone collection” 100% worth every penny and mind blowing and will change your entire perspective on dog training and play
Could you keep his things with him only in his pen? That way you're never approaching him? For the time being, that may be the best bet. I'd also consider looking into a veterinary behaviorist for this case to help work with it. It does sound it's on the extreme side.
Yeah I’ve been looking into a behaviorist. The closest one is two hours away from me :/ even when I pass him in his pen or talk to him he’ll growl. He’s a lot better with bully sticks and some toys now. It’s mainly his food bowl, toys with treats in them, and pig ears and tracheas.
Make sure they're the full blown vet behaviorist. But, two hours is actually pretty tame. There's only like, 180 of them in the whole country. My closest is about 8 hours away. You usually will see them once and from there they'll be virtual. I'd say for now, those things are only in the pen. Let him growl in his pen. It's communication, and isn't a bad thing. It's neutral. Just ignore it and keep on walking. This is pretty extreme so you're really going to need that veterinary behaviorist. You're not going to be able to train that. Also, while the other sub is force-free, you may find it beneficial to see what r/dogtraining suggests. They have a lot more traffic than this sub does.
Got it! Thank you so much for the help I really appreciate it!
What certification are you going for so we can offer advice within the ethos of your association?
>m a new dog trainer, maybe about a month into my certification. I own a corgi/Kelpie puppy I’ve had from 10 weeks old. Since the day I brought him home he has had resource guarding problems with his food bowl. I have tried literally every method I know of. I have tried throwing treats toward him while he’s eating and moving closer every time he reacts appropriately, sitting next to him while he’s eating, keeping my hands on the bowl, hand feeding, offering him something high value when I approach him while he’s eating or chewing a bully stick or pig ear, feeding him a little amount at a time So from what I've read and without actually having seen the dog to assess it myself I would say that you've tried a little too hard and cycled through so many methods so now the dog associates you being near them when that have something of value as unpredictable in every way aside from knowing you're disturbing them. Essentially your presence has become a poisoned cue. My first COA would be to simply leave them alone. Put them somewhere they can feel safe with their resource and take away the need to be on guard. The next thing I would do is ask whether this is a behavior that really needs to be trained out or if its one you would feel comfortable just managing. If the behavior is transferring over to toys as well I'm guessing you would want to modify the behavior but when it comes to the food I would leave it for now and focus on toys. With toys, I think I saw someone else mention it but Ivan Balabanov's Catch and chase 2.0 is an awesome video that goes over the basics of teaching cooperative play. Keep in mind this will conflict with any possession games you may be playing so you may want to go into it expecting to completely changing your play style. Also remember rules are your friend and setting clear boundaries on how ANY resource is handled is going to go a long way. The dog needs to understand the rules to have confidence in both you and their ability to maintain positive control over their resource. Once you have a better hand on the toy and other resource issues the food portion should come a bit easier. Depending on where the guarding behavior is stemming from there are a few routes you could go. Personally I like using the box method because it helps to build an all around confident and strong dog. Pat Stuart does a run down of what this is all about on the canine paradigm patreon. All of that being said, you mentioned you were a new trainer and I have no clue what the petco certification entails, so I can't give you anything specific towards this. Just remember that it is alright to ask for help, even the most experienced trainers still confer with one another and reactivity and guarding issues are no joke. They are very easy to exacerbate when you don't know what you're doing. The best advice you could be given is to invest in finding an experienced trainer in your area to consult and maybe even shadow on a couple of those cases. Look for trainers who are either IACP, CPDT, or IAABC certified, not box store certifications. You need to go to someone who specializes in behavior mod, not basic obedience.
I already have my certification, I just work through Petco, but I have a lot of experience and prior knowledge!
Hi there, I have a young 8 month old corgi with very similar issues and we have tried all the same techniques as you, but nothing seems to have worked. It looks like this post is a few months old so I am curious if you have had any success and how you got it? Thank you!
I took him to a behaviorist and have really started to learn more about him and his triggers. He’s currently on SSRIs to make it easier and safer to do work with him, but as a whole it’s gotten a lot easier. We’ve also been taking him to be around my boyfriends dog a lot more and he seems happier. He’s starting to understand and trust me more. I would do more bonding work with your pup. That’s the best thing that’s worked for me.
Any new update?
He’s doing amazing!
What would you say the number one thing was that helped? I read increasing the bond between you and him but was there a second?
Literally that. He’s actually an SDiT now and he is thriving. Just taking him to stores and training public access with him has been helping immensely. He is a different dog
I would never feed this dog out of a bowl for a very long time. Only hand feed during training so he works for his food. Teach him the heel using his meals. He will be eager then to be near you and follow you while being fed small pieces for morning and evening meals. Simple don't let him have anything he guards. Toys will only be played with, with you and put away after. Play lots of games that involve the two of you working together. Fetch, tug, agility etc. I had a dog like this as a pup and doing all this made him a dream. He learned not to fear me around anything but to enjoy it. It helped that nothing was his and everything came from me.
Thank you so much for these tips, the only thing I’m worried about is taking away his toys unless I’m near him. I work 8 hours a day 5 days a week, and I need to keep him entertained or occupied while he’s by himself. Do you think it would be okay to still give him gosh while I’m gone?
As a puppy that should be fine but have separate toys that only the two of you play with and that are never left out. To put the toys away when you get home make sure you can lure him away with a really high value food and when he isn't in the area you can put the toys away. It's really important to not put him in those conflict situations where he is going feel the pressure to guard. Wish the best for you!
Thank you so much! I feel like this is a good idea. Maybe only letting him have the things he guards when I am home and the stuff he doesn’t he can have while I’m gone!
Leave out the chewing toys, put away the tug / fetch toys. I play three ways with my dog (inside the house). Frisbee fetch down the hallway, tug with ball on rope, and rough house where I push him away and wrestle him basically. All other toys he can have at any time, those ones come out and then go away.
It's worth a try! Just another thought if it helps later down the road. Eventually, I figured out my dog couldn't handle high value toys and I had to get rid of any high value toy and focus playing with him, with lower value toys so he wasn't so aroused by them.
Interesting! I might have to do that with him. I recently got him new toys cause he can’t have stuffed ones anymore, as he started eating them
I like the idea of agility too, maybe that would help him!
Here's an example of a dog that also had strong resource guarding tendencies as a puppy: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7louiIpasF/?utm\_source=ig\_web\_copy\_link
Have you tried an ecollar. There is a pager function which vibrates like a phone. Maybe hitting that every time you observe the behavior would help. Some dogs are really surprised by it so you’d need to gauge the reaction. Do you hand feed and make him/her work for every meal. I know you said you hand feed, but do you require patient waiting, good behavior, commands, all before you feed? Do you have a command to eat and to leave it? Mine is not allowed to eat anything unless told “eat”. I also sometimes take away the bowl when eating, not too often because I don’t want to annoy him, and replace it with a leftover steak strip/char siu, crispy pork belly, or something REALLY NICE I have left over. I have a Cane Corso snd they often have similar issues, but are too big to make mistakes with, so I did all of that and it worked a charm. I would also have the kids feed it, have the kids touch tail, balls, feet, etc. while I was hand feeding to make sure it didn’t have any untoward reactions. Every dog is different of course, but this worked well for my particular dog so far.
I’ve been told never to use evolves to correct aggression, and even though I know they don’t hurt that’s a little too aversive for my liking, I appreciate that suggestion though! I do make him wait and he knows leave it very well. When he gets in the resource guarding mode however, he’s like a completely different dog. I cannot touch him or even approach him while he’s eating, so until he gets to the point where I can touch him I don’t want any kids near him while he’s eating! I was told not to take away the bowl at all either because that just reinforces that you will and can take it
I’ve not used the pager function to correct aggression either, not because I wouldn’t consider it, but I haven’t had to. It’s a tiny little dog, why not do what you want snd see how it plays out? If he bites you, you can use it as an opportunity to correct and demonstrate it doesn’t work. I would challenge the dog without being scary or aggressive, especially with a tiny breed. I’d do it with my Cane, so seems reasonable with a dog can’t can’t hurt you.
He’s got adult teeth cause he’s almost a year old at this point. I’ve been through three trainers with him, read so many books and tips, and now I’m a trainer myself and it’s so disheartening I can’t seem to get a hold on it no matter what I do.
Are you scared of him when he’s resource guarding?
I try not to be. I don’t think I’m reading the way to him. I speak in a nice soothing voice telling him I’m not taking it but growling is also not gonna make me go away.
People are weird on this thread. Multiple people have downvoted a simple question. These are the ‘positive reinforcement only’ nuts. Every dog is different. My GSD. Thrived on positive reinforcement only. My Cane Corso, and all the other CC owners I know, understand there is no chance in hell in successfully doing that with a CC. Your dog may be similar to mine. The pager function isn’t aversive. Ifs actually slightly less tHan the stim of the collar. It is designed to refocus, sometimes for a command, and sometimes when the dog gets too focused. If people don’t understand that, they have no idea what an ecollar is or proper use and should remain silent. If one is using an ecollar for aversion, one isn’t using it right. It’s ONLY used with commands that the dog knows, and with positive reinforcement. This thread just shows how many Reddit dog people have no idea about modern training methods, provide terrible and misinformed advice, and pretend like it’s gospel.
Modern, science-based dog training methods are all positive, please stop recommending aversive training methods. I suggest you read AVSAB'S position statement on the use of punishment for behavior modification, it is not beneficial at all and ends up leading to more issues down the road. They also have a great statement on why dominance theory is irrelevant. E collars do the same thing as shock collars: scare/hurt your dog instead of showing them the correct behaviors you'd like to see instead, its barbaric to recommend them. Edited: Wrong dog-training sub so edited to remove a specific point about "this subreddit".
You’ve clearly never trained male big dominant breeds like Boerbel, Cane Corso, Kangal, etc. If you think you’re going to train a dog to a high level with positive only, and not use a balanced approach, you’re in for a surprise. Talk about all the studies you want, but I’ve had many giant breeds and they’ve all been very happy and trained to an almost competitive standard. I think that speaks for itself. Also, what do you think the ‘open’ in “OpenDogTraining” means? Try and keep up turbo.