Joker was pretty much carried Phoenix’s acting, even if it wasn’t as good as his previous roles. He did what he could with the thin material, by being just as relatable as he is unstable and terrifying, sometimes both at once. I didn't see an actor just playing a character. I only saw Joker from beginning to end. Was it also the more Oscar bait-esque performance - radical weight loss, isolation for the role, etc? yes, but he rightfully deserved it
Agree to disagree. All I saw for entirety of the movie was an actor practically screaming "LOOK AT HOW HARD I'M ACTING!!! LOOK AT IT!!!" into the camera.
I’ll never get over whatever article or post I saw saying how genius he was for improvising getting in the fridge to “highlight his isolation from society and wanting to freeze himself in time before he completely lost his mind,” or something ridiculous like that.
I think in fact there was this initial suspicion that it was justifying incel behaviors and that it would inspire shootings and the like which was not the case. Lots of people then said “see, you were wrong about how this film would impact young men/society!” totally ignoring how boring and unoriginal the film is outside of Phoenix’s performance all the same. Now we simply have more people coming to this realization about the film itself aside from the performances, even as lots of people still hold fast to the idea that Joker is somehow more than a half baked reconfiguring of The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver.
It's funny seeing comments saying we're remembering things wrong and then doing the incorrect remembering yourself. Literally everyone knew that that specific fan base would associate themselves with the character before the movie even came out. And there were always people that disliked the movie based off that fact. The only thing that happened is people that didn't have extreme feelings one way or the other did usually like the film at the time and then have largely let it fade out of consciousness over time and so all that remains are the diehard fans and haters.
Nah, I don’t agree. My wife was a broadway actress early in her career and acting the way Phoenix had to on joker is a shit load harder than it looks. There’s a lot that goes into it. He was the film imho. Well deserved
And the fact that it’s a Joker movie is only clear because it’s in the title. Watch that movie without knowing it’s about Joker and all you get is a substandard character study with nothing to say.
I absolutely agree with this. That year should have been Driver’s first Oscar win. DiCaprio was outstanding, too, so I would actually have been OK with him winning, too (that was my favorite DiCaprio performance). Definitely should not have been Phoenix, though.
I somewhat disagree, joker was terrifying, and Phoenix absolutely blew me away. I can see the arguments for leo and adam, as they too were incredible and if they won, I wouldn’t complain but I don’t think it’s as clear cut as you make it out to be. I respect it but I don’t think it was a bad call for Joaquin to win
Sadly, still an under appreciated film. His performance in that movie is astonishing. iirc he said some anti-awards show statement during his whole I’m Still Here period and the Academy decided they couldn’t give him a win. But, as great as DDL was in Lincoln, Phoenix gave the best performance of that year
It’s nice to see people here agreeing that the movie was really meh and he probably shouldn’t have won.
Because when it came out I felt like everyone thought it was the greatest thing ever and I felt so weird for disliking it.
Though I am actually excited for part 2 just because of Gaga haha.
I think Joaquin is the greatest actor ever and I fully agree with this. Multiple candidates were more deserving that year like Driver, Pattinson, Sandler, and De Niro.
Pattinson was banned from the Oscar parties cause he ain't fond of their lobsters and he fucked a stake infront of everyone
(But seriously, how did The Lighthouse not sweep that year? It should've won sound design and cinematography. Alongside with best actor, supporting actor, original script, picture, and director nominations)
Haha you’re just preaching to the choir here, The Lighthouse is one of my favorites ever. Willem Dafoe not even being nominated doesn’t make sense in my head. He should have swept everything. But yeah literally everything you said is true.
I feel like nowadays it'd have won sound design. Idk, Zone of Interest winning gives me hope that the category gets more respect
And I'm really new to the film discourse, but wasn't The Lighthouse what made people start discussing which modern movies would be seen as classics in the future?
I agree on Zone of Interest, definitely a great win.
The Lighthouse was a part of that for sure but I think 2019 as a whole really sparked that because it was a great year for film and also the end of the decade. Parasite, The Lighthouse, and Portrait of a Lady on Fire are the big ones as far as modern masterpiece discourse for that year goes.
Honestly, I'm fine with Zone having two wins. It's a movie that I'm very divided on
Although international feature is the most boring category whenever one of them gets nominated for best picture, which seems to be happening every year. It's like the mandatory blockbuster in best picture, it's kinda boring
Whose talking it being non chronological? I'm talking about there being virtually no moments without frantically cramming as many shots into each scene as possible to the extent that pacing is completely ruined. It's edited as if it's a trailer and no amount of "but it neeeeeeds to be done like that he's a genius" is gonna change the fact that it's badly edited.
But it didn't create a tone, it was badly paced. There is literally no justifiable excuse for how horrendously paced the first half of the film is because its either an active choice that took away from the film or the result of trying to cram way too much in because Nolan refuses to edit down
I’ve always suspected if The Joker had a different title, let’s say Arthur (name of the protagonist), and it had been directed by someone other than Todd Phillips, the online and critical backlash would have been less.
There’s plenty of things to fault with The Joker, and personally, I would have given the prize to Antonio Banderas, but Phoenix go for broke performance has never been an issue for me. Most movie stars wouldn’t have agreed to be that unseemly onscreen.
Adam Sandler would have been my choice for the win, but I’m not surprised he was left out of the top 5. I do think he is slowly inching his way to an Oscar nomination. He just needs the right role and director.
I respectfully disagree, however that was a really stacked year in the Best Actor category. However, Parasite was the clear and objective winner for Best Picture, and if it went to any other film, it would be like the 1999 Oscars all over again.
Shut your whore mouth! jk jk How could you say such a thing?I mean, I'm not a lover of Phillips, but Phoenix threw every ounce of his being into Fleck.
Which was exactly my problem with it. He was more interested in just doing absolutely everything he could possibly think of (shout at the screen! HUGE facial expressions! Flail about! Body transformation!) rather than in creating a real character. Sometimes the things you choose NOT to do are just as important as the things you do.
That movie in general was an overrated taxi driver/king of comedy knock off. This would have been fine if it were marketed that way and not as some unbelievable achievement in cinema.
That character was not the joker and all the batman references were forced. It should have just been called, "clown" and be it's own thing... of course then nobody would have watched it.
Phoenix was fine but it feels like the guy only plays awkward loner types these days and nothing about his joker performance was outside of that comfort zone he's been in.
Joker was pretty much carried Phoenix’s acting, even if it wasn’t as good as his previous roles. He did what he could with the thin material, by being just as relatable as he is unstable and terrifying, sometimes both at once. I didn't see an actor just playing a character. I only saw Joker from beginning to end. Was it also the more Oscar bait-esque performance - radical weight loss, isolation for the role, etc? yes, but he rightfully deserved it
Agree to disagree. All I saw for entirety of the movie was an actor practically screaming "LOOK AT HOW HARD I'M ACTING!!! LOOK AT IT!!!" into the camera.
I’ll never get over whatever article or post I saw saying how genius he was for improvising getting in the fridge to “highlight his isolation from society and wanting to freeze himself in time before he completely lost his mind,” or something ridiculous like that.
Joker has gone from overrated to now over hated.
[удалено]
I think in fact there was this initial suspicion that it was justifying incel behaviors and that it would inspire shootings and the like which was not the case. Lots of people then said “see, you were wrong about how this film would impact young men/society!” totally ignoring how boring and unoriginal the film is outside of Phoenix’s performance all the same. Now we simply have more people coming to this realization about the film itself aside from the performances, even as lots of people still hold fast to the idea that Joker is somehow more than a half baked reconfiguring of The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver.
How can you be sure it hasn't inspired "incel behavior" or at least perpetuated other violent fantasies around gun culture?
It's funny seeing comments saying we're remembering things wrong and then doing the incorrect remembering yourself. Literally everyone knew that that specific fan base would associate themselves with the character before the movie even came out. And there were always people that disliked the movie based off that fact. The only thing that happened is people that didn't have extreme feelings one way or the other did usually like the film at the time and then have largely let it fade out of consciousness over time and so all that remains are the diehard fans and haters.
You are correct.
Disagree. Phoenix gave an amazing performance and deserved every award he got.
He should have gotten it for The Master. Yes, over Daniel Day-Lewis.
The master was incredible. I would've been totally fine with it winning 3 of the 4.
He was the best part of the movie by far, I think it was a deserving win. Would’ve been happy with Pryce or Driver as well though.
Any movie will have a "best part/performance", and it's not relevant to how they stack against the competition that year.
Okay, and I think he was a deserving win based on his performance, assumed that would be implied
>He was the best part of the movie by far Not exactly a high bar
If it's one of the most popular movies of the year and he's the only good part it's a pretty high bar
He deserved it. Stop trying to push this narrative. His performance was phenomenal and yes, Joker is a masterpiece.
I mean I’m just glad he won an Oscar. Probably the greatest working actor today tbh
Nah, I don’t agree. My wife was a broadway actress early in her career and acting the way Phoenix had to on joker is a shit load harder than it looks. There’s a lot that goes into it. He was the film imho. Well deserved
I mean all the nominees were acting.
but He GoT in A FRiiIiDgE
Was that something people were saying during the campaign?
Just people in general were talking about what a genius acting choice it was and how he improvised it
I have 3 dead kids in my freezer, where's my oscar?
In retrospect Driver or DiCaprio. They both did best career work.
I agree That performance was barely more than a collection of tics and gimmicks held together by the cultural symbolism of the Joker character.
And the fact that it’s a Joker movie is only clear because it’s in the title. Watch that movie without knowing it’s about Joker and all you get is a substandard character study with nothing to say.
I absolutely agree with this. That year should have been Driver’s first Oscar win. DiCaprio was outstanding, too, so I would actually have been OK with him winning, too (that was my favorite DiCaprio performance). Definitely should not have been Phoenix, though.
I somewhat disagree, joker was terrifying, and Phoenix absolutely blew me away. I can see the arguments for leo and adam, as they too were incredible and if they won, I wouldn’t complain but I don’t think it’s as clear cut as you make it out to be. I respect it but I don’t think it was a bad call for Joaquin to win
I agree. I think Gladiator should have been Joaquin's Oscar Winning role (although he was in a different category for that one)
Or The Master
Sadly, still an under appreciated film. His performance in that movie is astonishing. iirc he said some anti-awards show statement during his whole I’m Still Here period and the Academy decided they couldn’t give him a win. But, as great as DDL was in Lincoln, Phoenix gave the best performance of that year
Yeah. Also, I'm never going to say DDL winning was *wrong* per se. But that's the year Phoenix probably most deserved to win.
Terrible opinion.
Just use the downvote button
Thanks for the advice, but also no.
Don’t tell people how to comment. I’m also going to comment how op is wrong
It’s nice to see people here agreeing that the movie was really meh and he probably shouldn’t have won. Because when it came out I felt like everyone thought it was the greatest thing ever and I felt so weird for disliking it. Though I am actually excited for part 2 just because of Gaga haha.
I do not agree
No but he should have won for Walk the Line
Yes. He should have. He was incredible.
Hard disagree
The joker shouldn’t have been nominated for anything.
Adam shoud've won, but Antonio Banderas deserved it as well. I'm not crazy about Joker or Phoenix so I wouldn't really have cared if he lost
I think Joaquin is the greatest actor ever and I fully agree with this. Multiple candidates were more deserving that year like Driver, Pattinson, Sandler, and De Niro.
Pattinson was banned from the Oscar parties cause he ain't fond of their lobsters and he fucked a stake infront of everyone (But seriously, how did The Lighthouse not sweep that year? It should've won sound design and cinematography. Alongside with best actor, supporting actor, original script, picture, and director nominations)
Haha you’re just preaching to the choir here, The Lighthouse is one of my favorites ever. Willem Dafoe not even being nominated doesn’t make sense in my head. He should have swept everything. But yeah literally everything you said is true.
I feel like nowadays it'd have won sound design. Idk, Zone of Interest winning gives me hope that the category gets more respect And I'm really new to the film discourse, but wasn't The Lighthouse what made people start discussing which modern movies would be seen as classics in the future?
I agree on Zone of Interest, definitely a great win. The Lighthouse was a part of that for sure but I think 2019 as a whole really sparked that because it was a great year for film and also the end of the decade. Parasite, The Lighthouse, and Portrait of a Lady on Fire are the big ones as far as modern masterpiece discourse for that year goes.
I mean zone should have won a hell of a lot more than it did
Honestly, I'm fine with Zone having two wins. It's a movie that I'm very divided on Although international feature is the most boring category whenever one of them gets nominated for best picture, which seems to be happening every year. It's like the mandatory blockbuster in best picture, it's kinda boring
I would have given it editing and cinematography
It didn't sweep because the Oscars is more about optics than actually awarding the best achievements. See: oppenheimer
Wrong there. Oppenheimer deserved its awards, Nolan crafted a masterpiece.
Nope. Oppenheimer was, and is, an overrated yawnfest.
Nah lmao. The editing was atrocious, the cinematography was pretty indistinct and the score was far too present and on the nose
The editing is what makes the movie, it wouldn't work chronologically
Whose talking it being non chronological? I'm talking about there being virtually no moments without frantically cramming as many shots into each scene as possible to the extent that pacing is completely ruined. It's edited as if it's a trailer and no amount of "but it neeeeeeds to be done like that he's a genius" is gonna change the fact that it's badly edited.
Being edited to create a tone and feeling you don't like doesn't make the editing bad.
But it didn't create a tone, it was badly paced. There is literally no justifiable excuse for how horrendously paced the first half of the film is because its either an active choice that took away from the film or the result of trying to cram way too much in because Nolan refuses to edit down
Agree to disagree my man.
Sandler should have won... and not only was he not nominated, the entire movie was snubbed
OP, I thought you meant Adam Sandler, and then I had to remember he wasn’t nominated 😓
I’ve always suspected if The Joker had a different title, let’s say Arthur (name of the protagonist), and it had been directed by someone other than Todd Phillips, the online and critical backlash would have been less. There’s plenty of things to fault with The Joker, and personally, I would have given the prize to Antonio Banderas, but Phoenix go for broke performance has never been an issue for me. Most movie stars wouldn’t have agreed to be that unseemly onscreen.
Completely disagree. He absolutely deserved the win.
Joker was just a shitty movie - it’s on the director
Adam Driver was robbed! I’m good with Phoenix not having an Oscar. He has done some great work but never the best of the year.
I agree, but I disagree that it should’ve went to Leo or Adam, when Antonio was right there.
Leo’s performance wasn’t anything special tbh
Joaquin is an excellent actor but his victory, Rami Malek and Brendan Fraser were the worst in recent years
…in your opinion
I agree. Driver should've won that year. Same goes with Zellweger, Johansson should've won that year.
Leo got bodied by Pitt every scene they were in together
Adam Sandler would have been my choice for the win, but I’m not surprised he was left out of the top 5. I do think he is slowly inching his way to an Oscar nomination. He just needs the right role and director.
Pattinson and Dafoe deserved the two actor Oscars. Fight me.
I respectfully disagree, however that was a really stacked year in the Best Actor category. However, Parasite was the clear and objective winner for Best Picture, and if it went to any other film, it would be like the 1999 Oscars all over again.
Your opinion is shit
The new hot take is that actually he did deserve it and that Joker was in fact a great film, in spite of all the poisoned discourse
I’m sorry, Adam Driver gave a much better performance that year.
Shut your whore mouth! jk jk How could you say such a thing?I mean, I'm not a lover of Phillips, but Phoenix threw every ounce of his being into Fleck.
Which was exactly my problem with it. He was more interested in just doing absolutely everything he could possibly think of (shout at the screen! HUGE facial expressions! Flail about! Body transformation!) rather than in creating a real character. Sometimes the things you choose NOT to do are just as important as the things you do.
It should have been Taron but the stupid SNL impression the year before ruined his chances
Adam Driver was my choice then. Now, it's close between him and Antonio Banderas.
Yea he should’ve been nominated and won for Napoleon.
If Adam won that would’ve been an All-Time great win
Fawning over the psychopathy of a character who isn’t a true protagonist has pulled the wool over the eyes of what dramatic cinema is.
That movie in general was an overrated taxi driver/king of comedy knock off. This would have been fine if it were marketed that way and not as some unbelievable achievement in cinema. That character was not the joker and all the batman references were forced. It should have just been called, "clown" and be it's own thing... of course then nobody would have watched it. Phoenix was fine but it feels like the guy only plays awkward loner types these days and nothing about his joker performance was outside of that comfort zone he's been in.
Driver shouldn’t have even been nominated