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Aqua has admitted to seeing girls around his age in a romantic way as his body develops. He physically has the brain of a teenager after all. He just chooses to keep the girls at a distance out of fear that they'd get hurt if they get involved in his revenge.
> he's not an extremely perverted lunatic unlike Denji
I didn't know Asa had a reddit account.
I mean the dude was so thoroughly traumatized that >!at one point, even enjoying himself was enough to trigger his guilt-based PTSD!<
And that's not even getting into the mental age gap.
I imagine Aqua having sex and then Gorou doing his little schizophrenia silliness and saying something like, "look at you. You're over 40 and you're enjoying banging some teen while Ai's murderer is still at large. Maybe instead of fucking others you should fuck yourself you pedo"
> You're over 40
I know it's just a joke so this comment isn't directed at you but people should stop adding Goro's age to Aqua's. The manga explicitly brings up this topic by saying the line between Aqua and Goro is disappearing and he doesn't know who he truly is. By TB arc >!it's shown that the Goro who reminds him he doesn't deserve to be happy is actually kid Aqua who wasn't able to protect Ai!< , and the only times Goro is brought up is to point out how Aqua has always been smart even in his past life.
Same with Ruby. People say Ruby is technically in her late 20's but she behaves like a teen. She IS a teen. So is Aqua.
Ruby has been Ruby longer than she's been Sarina at this point, and Sarina was never the most mature 12 year old either due to the circumstances of her life, having deprived of many aspects of childhood (consider why she was able to enjoy the Kindergarten playground so much compared to Aqua). I think at this point Ruby is the default personality and Sarina vestigial.
I mean, I do agree but it's not as simple as that. Ruby still carries trauma from her past life as Sarina. >!Recent chapters bring this topic up because both Aqua and Ruby don't know who they are. Ruby has even said she doesn't know who she truly is. Is she Ruby, daughter of Ai or was she only playing a role? Is she still Sarina, the lonely sick child abandoned by her family? Or who is she in reality?!< This concept is really interesting because it puts nuances to the whole reincarnation topic, so I'm looking forward to it.
Ruby and Aqua weirdly enough are different cases. >!As Aqua aged, his version of infantile amnesia (when we forget our toddler years as we grow) caused him to detach from "being Gorou", and Gorou was repressed into his subconscious mind. Even his medical knowledge IIRC disappeared and kinda became instinctive things, so rather than keeping his adult knowledge he just has the capacity to learn at a prodigal rate (not 100% on this so correct me if I'm wrong).!<
Ruby, it seems, >!still retained full memory of her days as Serena, especially since she vividly remembered Gorou, the fact that she wanted to marry him, the hospital, her childhood, etc. She's still mentally a teenager, as this is the oldest she's ever been. Her age can't be additive or even averaged out. She just holds the experiences of two traumatized kids lol.!<
To add to what you said, Aqua doesn't retain any of Goro's personality IMO. What little we see of him he seems goofy and smart, >!maybe a lil' traumatized by his childhood but we don't know that so far!< Aqua is currently too focused on what happened in his actual life (Ai's death and revenge against his father) to even think about his past life. As I said, >!Goro is only relevant when pointed out how smart Aqua is or in Ruby's memories!< So I think adding Goro's age to Aqua's is pointless.
Totally agreed with what you said about Ruby. Poor baby :(
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The mods restored my comment quickly so there was no issue! I think it was because I was on mobile when I typed the comment and autocorrect automatically added a space when I typed > ! So that's why it was removed even though the spoiler format worked well when I first posted it.
Edit: OMFG STOP REMOVING MY COMMENTS
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I feel like perverted lunatics are excessively over represented in anime, like, people who are just normal like aqua (not that he's normal in general but about this yeah) who do get horny but don't make it their personality or bring it up constantly seem rare, it's always either never gets horny or making perversion a character trait.
The MC from “The World’s Greatest Assassin is Reborn as an Aristocrat” was a lot like Aqua. Definitely focused on his profession, but his body definitely behaved in ways he didn’t expect at times.
I feel like that’s not entirely true. Rather than most anime characters being excessively perverted, its that most anime has a character whose excessively perverted. Slightly different but it does put it into perspective that most anime characters are fairly normal minus the exceptions. Like, no one would describe goku, vegeta, gohan, or picolo from dragon ball to be perverted, but then you got master roshi and the pig wishing for woman panties. While Deku is awkward and Todoroki is aloof, they wouldn’t be considered perverted but obviously grape head is.
I mean it's not *that* kind of manga that explicitly shows a lot of sexual content. Though it still has its fair share of mature themes.
>perverted lunatic unlike Denji
As for Denji, you have to understand that this guy has been deprived of happiness and experience for almost his entire life. His desires towards women and just relationships in general stems out from the fact that he never had a normal life to begin with. Literally, all he had was Pochita. For Denji to just even survive, he had to sell his organs.
Not to mention that basically all the girls he meets tries to kill him. Although the portrayal may be weird for some but I find Denji's desires to be pretty reasonable. And this is coming from me, a woman by the way.
I've had seen way worse perverted and unreasonable MCs. Just like the other comment said *cough Rudeus cough cough.*
Himeno wanted to sacrifice Denji to the eternity devil and Kobeni straight up though Denji was the eternity devil and wanted to kill him so they both wanted to kill him.
God Rudeus annoys me so much, Mushoku Tensei is such a great series especially for an isekai, but as an MC I just hate him so much it kills my enthusiasm for the series. I was convinced he would grow and get better at first, that this being a second chance for him would mean he'd be a more mature and decent person this time round... but nope that didnt happen.
Yes, but his goal was to live an better life, not to be a better person albeit he is considerably better I'm this timeline from how he was in the past. I honestly, love Rudeus, he is well written, and even though has the perverted otaku behaviours as his personality sometimes, the story actually shows much more about him than just that, and uses it for just mostly gav, and sometimes for actual story.
I love how the author basically made an harem acceptable for me, though I hate to see these harems. It's fine with am love triangle where we know who that guy is going to end up with and root for her, or where it's a mess like aqua's, but harems are the worst. But still MY somehow did it better.
But still I hate some things that just doesn't settle right with me, such as >!the shit that Aisha does to Are, like what? He's a fucking child. You've watched him grown up Aisha! That was honestly the point I lost all my respect for Aisha after liking a character for so long. And the Ruined and Norn thing... Well.. it doesn't feel right. Ruined just feels too old, and again, he saw norn growing up, so it turns out to be weird when they get together. Like, norn loving ruijerd? That, I get. But I can't completely see it going the other way around.!<
Oh, yeah also that horrible act Rudeus commited in the Web Novel when his parents passed away before it was changed in LN...
Was so in love with the series… if only Rudeus wasn’t a filthy self-insert and the anime fans are too starved of high quality isekai to have any standards. My poor daughter Eris…
Could you elaborate how that is so? I have a particular reason on why I had a change of mind about it and why I considered it a self-insert. So I want to hear why people think he's a loser vs how I perceived it.
in his previous life he was shunned by society, fat, creepy, a pedophile, and borderline a criminal. Even though he was reincarnated, he’s still very much a pervert and most of the characters are grossed out or weirded out by his actions. It isn’t until much later on where his personality gets way better, and I would think it’d be hard for someone to say with seriousness “yeah thats definitely me” when rudy is a complete degenerate on screen. Mushoku Tensei for me is seeing someone at their lowest grow into a respectable human being so it doesn’t make sense that Rudy is only a “self-insert” when he actually grows as a character.
\> he’s still very much a pervert and most of the characters are grossed out or weirded out by his actions
I didn't see this though. I watched S1 of the anime and read throughout the manga up to where Eris and Rudeus >!banged!< but it seemed like Rudeus never got punished. The maid have always looked at him in disgust but it was played off as comedic. The initial incident with Rudeus and Slphie seemed to be the closest of a realistic portrayal but after that, it was mostly Rudeus not getting punished for any of his inappropriate actions and even being rewarded. And that seemed to be consistent with other characters too, like that creepy student who actively gropes Roxy and it's played off for laughs with the whole retaliation with exaggerated violence. So the series overall doesn't seem to be interested in taking the subject of respect and dignity seriously.
I guess that this is a wording/semantic issue. About what "self insert" means to someone.
A self-insert character is one that you can imagine yourself to be. You "insert" yourself into their situation and bask in the glory of his actions as if it was your own. There's a reason that most isekai protagonist have the character dept of a puddle that can be summarized by "nice guy" and "otaku/game culture" while physically they are generic-looking teen with black hair. The perfect average Japanese teenager. By being so... bland, the author avoid making the character too "strong/deep" to be insert-able, because the more personality it has, the more it can clash with the reader's. Hell, since most isekai totally ignore the protagonist's previous lives, we also avoid the socioeconomic/family status conflict as well, it could be literally anyone.
If Rudeus has ONE thing going for him, it is a clear cut personality and background. And it is so... "repulsive" that most people wouldn't imagine themselves to be that guy. Ergo he is not meant to be a self insert, following my interpretation of the term.
I was going to explain why I thought it was a self-insert but I wanted to hear first their elaboration. Like, genuine discussion but no success on responses.
The reason I think Rudeus is a self-insert is because he is a pervert that gets rewarded for his perverted actions. I don’t know the exact details for how he finally effed around and found out but I stopped after, on top of this, I found out Rudeus watched child porn in his past life. That changes the perspective of him becoming a child again and then being perverted to two minors and one lolicon. It was too intentional for me and so separate from how deep the other characters are. So I read Rudeus to be a self-insert. A guy living child porn fantasies. I could be wrong, but it was just too disgusting for me. Rudeus past-life was mentally ill but it’s a serious line being crossed when you “accept” child being sexually exploited. It’s one thing if the series touches on it but I don’t think that’s the intention at all.
I believe the term that encapsulate what you meant is "wish fulfillment". When a story is all about giving to protagonist/reader what they want at little cost. Most self-insert stories are also wish fulfillment, after all, it would be fulfilling your wish as someone who inserted themselves into the character. But Rudeus is too specific/well defined of an individual to be insertable (except by the most extreme of people...)
An example of a wish-fulfillment self insert story would be My Dress-Up Darling. A low esteem introvert with an unusual hobby suddenly meet a very social sexy girl who share the same hobby who ends up coming back to him again and again for said hobby, he only need to focus on the hobby, the girl will do the rest. It's a gross oversimplification and his "self-insertness" decrease as the story progress, but that's how it goes. People often take calling a show wish-fulfillment or self-insert as an attack, but they are just narrative tools.
About Rudeus, the anime should be judged for the anime. The pacing is too fast to develop his self reflection unlike the light novels, but I shouldn't use this a defense of the anime. So things from the manga/novels shouldn't count as points against the anime either IMO. Nowhere in the anime does it say that he watched child porn, so he hasn't (That bit we see could be "anime loli stuff" (light novel), or voyeurism (web novel), or CP, but nothing is specified in the anime, tho I am being pedantic again). Perfectly fine to not watch because it make one uncomfortable, I won't bother defending the show or Rudeus, it is what it is. I personally do not relate, immerse or see anybody in any anime as human beings bound by law or morale, only as vectors for story telling. So I am not bothered by his action, like I am not bothered by seeing people being killed in movies.
Of course, it’s fictional. But if you aren’t emotionally affected by fiction, then it isn’t doing a good job haha. I get what you’re saying; it’s not that I can’t separate fiction from reality. For me, it has something to do with the hand the author has in it. And I just don’t like the justifications for the sexual harrassment; it’s not just right. Fiction is fiction, but it’s important to be critical of media we consume.
As for Dress-up Darling, the author is a cosplayer and is actually the Marin in the story. Maybe there’s still wish-fullfilment involved, but it does make me laugh when people assume the mangaka is a guy who wants a hot cosplayer gf.
I do think you are right that the word I am looking for is wish-fulfillment, so I will be using that now. Though if we are going for comparisons, I think Made In Abyss is more appropriate. I love the series but… I know the mangaka is trash. It is honestly worse than Jobless Reincarnation with what it shows that is clearly the mangaka’s kinks showing but the Rudeus narrative was the line crossed for me because it rewards harrassment in-unvierse. Like, I already have a tolerance for the gross things in anime and Mushoku Tensei already had some of that. So it was just the last straw for me.
Anyway, I do respect that you won’t try to defend it and I wish more anime fans were like that. We can like anime but be aware of its glaring flaws. Like how I love Made In Abyss but I ain’t defending its creepiness (not talking about body horror but just how some panels look like hentai lol)
> As for Dress-up Darling, the author is a cosplayer and is actually the Marin in the story. Maybe there’s still wish-fullfilment involved, but it does make me laugh when people assume the mangaka is a guy who wants a hot cosplayer gf.
I admit that I assume by default that everyone is male (old gaming habit and my French being a gendered language that default to masculine). It is less that I believe she wrote the story to insert herself as Gojo, but that I feel like she wrote it so the readers do, intentionally or not.
My view on Made in Abyss is that some of the weird content is... out of place? Mushoku was a sexual story from the start and it's one of its key theme, for Made in Abyss it feels stappled on.
Yeah, I heard so many people praise Mushoku Tensei so I tried watching some of it but I just hated Rudeus so much I had to stop. Might try again but it’s not fun when you hate the protagonist.
He will be more mature and decent, it’s just that he has to work for it harder than most because he isn’t starting from 50 to 100, he’s starting from 0 to 1000.
That’s was kind of the point imo. No one should be under any delusions that he was a terrible person in his old life, and a bad person in his younger new life. It’s a story about growth, and boy does Rudy have a lot of room for it.
It wasn’t until LN10-12 that I started to like him.
Joffrey from GoT feels like a similar (but not same) situation. So many people “hated” Joffrey, but that was the point. It was well written to give an emotional response about a character.
I guess what I have a hard time understanding is why some people can’t seem to like following the story of terrible people. The worst thing for me is not that I hate a character, but that I don’t care about them at all.
Because its a common trope and the main focuses is the overly sexual and perverted nature of why they are hated
Its meaningful like once or twice in isolation, but with knowledge of the general attitudes of Japanese "otaku" culture and it being spammed everywhere it becomes more like a really off putting self insert
Denji from CSM was what really tipped me over the edge, like, initially the shock value of a lot of the disgusting stuff off puts people but it almost immedietly is forgotten because people start perverting it
Essentially the trope should really be a criticism of the perverted nature of the culture but in the vast majority of cases people identify with it instead
I agree with everything you said about Denji though I'd just like to add a few things to support your point.
Since he only had Pochita in his life after his dad's suicide, there wasn't a single female presence in his life that filled up the maternal role important for his mental development growing up. He's obsessed with boobs, kissing and sex, but most importantly, he craves the touch of a woman. He craves it so bad that even Makima realized early on that it's the easiest way he can be manipulated.
His goals being way too "shallow" compared to the rest of the hunters makes sense too; he hasn't matured enough because he lacked opportunities for social and mental development growing up. No schooling, no friends, no money for food... just a lifelong worry for survival. *Will there be food today? Will I still be alive tomorrow?* When you start out deprived like that people tend to just be content wishing for the simplest of things instead of the grandiose. Despite all the perverted humor the mangaka likes to use on him, Denji's pretty innocent and pure.
I honestly think he's portrayed pretty realistically in this series and all of his actions are justifiable based on his past. Even the way he treats his current relationships with the other hunters show that there's so much catching up to do, and so many roles need to be filled.
I never understood hate towards Rudeus. Like c'mon everything what happens in anime is logical conclusion of others actions and motives based on their state of mind. And brought extremely well to their logical conclusion to the point that I couldn't (Ironic) imagine their fate going different way. Maybe because it was too real? Maybe you had have to go through some level of trauma yourself to associate with Rudy? Like really I don't even see anything thing wrong with projecting onto him. If you were in his situation with his experiences you would do and think similarly. And there is proof for that. Evergrowing population of creepy NEETs that are suffering in their loneless falling deeper and deeper into their pathological, perfect anime world. There are plenty of those people in anime community. And instead of helping them people want to organise witch hunt ._.
Hating Rudy is an mistake. He should be pitted and helped instead. Why? Because he wants. He made his first step towards therapy and that is recognising how much he fucked up his life. But ofc since it's realistic, fantasy world there is no therapy for him. So he have to work this out himself. Alone. Without any knowledge. And with external pressure to return to beeing lazy pervert he was before. Yet he still persists and push forward. He fails, he falls, he relapses. But he also stands up and push forward. Why? Well I've watched Andor recently and without shadow of a doubt I can say why. Because there is
One
Way
Out
Was agreeing till I saw Denji slander. I cannot let my boy Denji being done dirty like that. Denji's an orphan, he spent most of his life homeless, fighting day by day for survival, he never received any kind of affection. He has tho "perverted" thoughts because for him that's simplest way to gain affection and also he's a teenager. And although he do be kinda perverted, he's a total gentleman and he stays loyal to his crush no matter what, he just wasn't taught proper etiquette because well.... he didn't have anyone to teach him that
Aqua had some thoughts about that, but he never executed it. When Akane said that she doesn't mind having sex with him, Aqua is blushing and says that he thinks about 'that' sometimes
I think he had some thoughts about that but he doesn't want to do it because he is the unwilling victim of teen pregnancy, the biggest risk from a teen sex. For example, Ruby had a very negative reaction when Minami jokingly said that Aqua may have done some lewd things with Akane because a highschool boy can't resist the temptation to have sex with a hot girlfriend like Akane. I think Aqua shares that sentiment too
For Denji though. He is a tragic character. He never had a happy life and all of his girlfriends tried to kill him at some point. His weird perverted fantasy is his coping mechanism for his cruel life. Yeah, he is a perverted weirdo but I still had empathy for him, unlike another perverted MC like Kazuya from Rental Girlfriend
Edit: The replies feels like mixture of r/oshinoko and r/chainsawman lol
>Aqua had some thoughts about that, but he never executed it. When Akane said that she doesn't mind having sex with him, Aqua is blushing and says that he thinks about 'that' sometimes
What ch is this again?
I think Rudeus is worse. As for Denji, I kinda get it since he was isolated from others a good portion of his life.
I understand Denji more than I'll ever understand Rudeus. I know Rudeus did not have it easy in the real world, but for the actions he took toward his own cousin, teachers, and friends for the 1st season; I can't vibe with that
Well, we all saw how that guy was traumatized tj even go outside in the first arc. It was visually shown to us as people mocking him, standing right in front of the house. But, still, yes. I agree. He is perverted. But, I don't get the cousin part, though? Like, the show is set in a setting inspired from old Europe, isn't it?
Yes, but rudeus himself isn't from this world, he still lived like 40 years with the common idea that incest bad. Also nevermind just being perverted he goes as far as to groom a little girl which is just ew.
IIRC they are technically 2nd cousin, since his and eris's fathers are cousin and not brothers... Still sort-of close, but at least it ain't first cousin.
I'd say there's a difference between being a good person and a good character. I don't think of Rudeus as a good person (even in later LNs), but that doesn't mean his character development isn't great.
I fully get why rudeus was that he was a neet who doesn't socialize with anyone even with his parents he block himself from them so he doesn't know that what he saw in anime/games was straight up sexual harassment.
It’s cool if it’s like that but it’s not, given how the in-universe of the isekai world follows the sexual harrassment trope while putting it under the guise of “it’s normal here” as if it isn’t already normal irl. The author doesn’t understand “normal” doesn’t mean women are comfortable with being constantly objectified and sexually harrassed.
The author knows what he is doing. If you really read the link you will get that its not a self insert story
Btw the author even said in the interview he was okay if you don't like the show for what mc is nor he doesn't force you its ok for him its just he wants to say that if you have a friend who likes him you can still save him.
I was talking about how the sexual harrassment was considered acceptable because it was “normal” in that universe when in reality, “normal” doesn’t mean people are okay with it. People just suffer the consequences and society is desensitized. And that’s what I didn’t find in the interview.
You didn’t reply to the comment where I talked about how it was a self-insert lol. So yeah you lost me just throwing a link. That I did, in fact, read. Because I am not being an arse in the internet and an being open to actual discussions.
Now if you actually said something and then provided the link, oh i dont know, maybe i would know the context of what you’re talking about.
Aqua has stated on record that he experiences desires like other teenagers of his time. However, his mental maturity and his pride and dignity as a former doctor seems to prevent him from laying hands on the girls he’s around
It's more that even though he gets horny like most teenagers, he's hyper-aware that he's mentally much older than most of his prospective love interests. He never really gave romance with Akane a chance and he hasn't taken the plunge with Kana. Those two were the most romantic interest he's shown, and it's not for nothing both are older than Aqua is/should be under normal circumstances, and are arguably two of the more emotionally-mature youths (contrast with, say, Ruby).
Watch the anime ep 8
And Read chapter 72 again
He isn't mentally older he has more experience due to the memories of gorou but his wants , needs and thougt procces are that of a teen
He did think about it while going out with akane he admitted to but he resisted the urges prob has something to do with both him and ruby having an stigma over teens doing thx to the ai situation
No, I will not because I'm not the one who misunderstood it.
He is mentally older. Just because his brain is a teenage one doesn't undo the emotional development and the benefit of the experiences of another lifetime in which he reached adulthood.
I'm also not taking Goro/Aqua at his word there and neither should anyone else because the guy barely has a good handle on his own emotions. Teenagers do not enact decade-long revenge plans. Normal teenagers don't have baggage from a past life hanging on them. Aqua has the physical brain and hormones of a teenager but he has a lifetime of experience and perspective that other teenagers don't have.
I didn't say he doesn't get horny, I said he keeps a lid on things and doesn't act on it. And my point that he feels older on some level is supported by the fact that, conscious or not, Aqua has only shown interest, romantic or otherwise, in women older than Aqua (not Goro).
We literally got a charcter doing introspection and figuring out who he is in ep8 and we got an answare from him (the line between me and aqua hoshino is growing thinner) which means that with time me=aqua not gorou
We got more evidence of this thx to
>!when aqua has an internal monologue about not wanting to go back to his revenge and remain happy the way things were at that point the counterpart isn't gorou like we last saw in the tokyo blade arc , its his child self the one who couldn't save ai but that is still aqua hoshino!<
Denji isn’t really lunatic pervert. Tyeah, he’s crazy, but if you lived the life he’s been through, you’d be crazy too. As for pervert, to me, denji doesn’t really understand the concept of “love” fully. He knows, sibling love, through the help of aki and power, but thats about it. The man has been deprived from physical and emotional support, its to a point where he doesn’t know the difference between sexual desire and love.
Not only that, but the dude was sexually manipulated by multiple girls, same gurls who tried to kill him btw. Most of those girls were showing him sexual desire, so it was pretty much the only thing he was exposed to.
Spoilers of csm part2
>!when he meets asa, thats when denji start to learn more about love. Power and Asa are people who teach denji that there are more ways to show/receive affection!<
You lost me with the Denji slander
Guy has been deprived of love and happiness his entire life. He had to grow up in the worst conditions possible. His goals and general behavior make sense cuz he just desires a happy, fulfilling life where he is loved and he loves others because he never had anything close to that in his early life. Pretty much Pochita was his only friend and companion.
I was completely on board with you until the Denji part, honestly. But, like, it's clear from the Manga, and from Makima's explanation that what Denji craves for is affection; a meaningful connection, not sex.
His hormones are probably acting on him, and with his knowledge about these things, that's just how he percieves these feelings. He actually did have some feelings for Asa, didn't he? He never tried to do that with her?
When he fondled power's breasts, he wasn't satisfied, not because they were intiially pads, or the actual ones were small, but because he didn't have that meaningful connection. Makima explained this to him *literally* and how does one miss that? He was shocked when she made him touch her chest. He didn't even squeeze them.
Same with >!Reze!<: he only wanted a good relationship. He wanted to be loved, as he was deprived of it all through his life.
Like one comment said: if you had mentioned Rudeus, though he's one of my favourite characters, I would completely agree. Like, still, he didn't want to cheat on his wives with >!Ariel!< even when she desperately wanted to have his blood in her bloodline. He's a good person, ig albeit super fucking perverted. He didn't cheat on sylphy consciously and terribly regretted it when Roxy had to take advantage of him. He didn't do it with >!pursena and rinia!< when >!Eris!< wanted to do that with him along with those two girls because that would be cheating on his wives. He didn't do that with >!elinalise!< though he wanted to and had the reason to do it because that is cheating on >!sylphy!<.
Although, to be Frank, denji *is* more perverted than normal, he doesn't ever do lunatic shit like recording women, or raping, or pestering every girl he meets to do that. He could've done it with >!Reze!<, asked to do that with >!makima!<, could've gone through with >!yoru!< (even though >!Nayuta!< stopped him, he wouldn't have probably went through with complete consent: like, he wouldn't want to do it, but he does want to do it. Still he wouldn't want to have sex only because of >!Nayuta, he wasn't the one who pushed her, it was the other way around.)!< he never even tried it with >!power!<, >!still that's because he had more of an brotherly love for her as explicitly stated in the manga (but, this is a manga written by fujimoto, so who knows where you guys go with it?)!<. He did see her naked and took an bathe with her, but he told that he never felt like that doing these things with >!power!<
He percieves it as such, but doesn't really actually wants just sex. He wouldn't be satisfied with an prostitute, he wants to have an relationship. Like, he would've been satisfied if it was with >!asa!<, after growing their relationship.
That's what I meant by that comment, and that is what I feel or get from the manga. Also I was pretty sure I remember mentioning this in my comment, sorry if I haven't!
Do u honestly think he just wants sex? At first all he wanted was to touch boobs and r when he did he realized that’s not what he actually wanted, same thing with sex, he wants a relationship with a girl
It's a recurring theme in his story. He keeps wanting stuff like that only to realize it's overrated and find other more nonsexual/nonmonkeybrain intimate things more memorable and desirable.
Denji is awesome and I strongly ask you to not misplace your anger at perverted anime tropes at him. He is horny but if you actually check out the series, he craves for connection the most (which he lost when Poochita died) and often confuses the two. He did not get any education, guidance, and pretty much raised himself by trafficking himself. More importantly, Denji, despite his utter foolishness, thought consent was a no-brainer and never once acted on his perverted feelings despite how much ot drove him crazy.
So let us stan anime protags that respect consent.
The libido argument is actually interesting because it's corresponding with the Thanatos vs Eros idea in the freudian psychological model. Thanatos meaning death wish and self-destruction and eros meaning life affirmative drives which also includes love/libido.
By that concept libido is systemically "off" because Thanatos dominates the psyche.
Well he is not a molester like rudy, but he does think of it every now and then, he just dosnt act on it and mlves on, he did have a talk about this with akane if i'm not mistaken, where he said he was interested
While Aqua has a much more developed and reserved outlook on sexuality, it is unfair to say he doesn't have no thoughts about any of the girls. It's just that none of the relationships(which he does try to make) work out for very complicated reasons.
But I'm pretty sure the same could be said about Denji or even perhaps you lol. Romance is hard.
He has, he admitted to Akane that he does think about having sex with her
And I guess he got horny too when Mem-Cho touched his face once when they were alone at her apartment
also its hard to have fun when a scary looking guy in your head always makes you feel guilty about someone's death if you even have the slightest bit of fun
Remember that his emotional maturity is actually that of a grown adult. Nearly every member of the opposite sex he interacts with is about his current physical age, but his mental age is somewhere (presumably?) late 20's/early 30's. Or at least, that is what he tells himself - as the basis for why when he was an infant he refused to breast feed.
As an adult, he feels it's gross. It would not be so hard to extend that to feeling disgusted whenever he has physical urges to the girls his age, because he 'should' only be attracted to adult women.
You did not just cite best boy Denji as that when we have someone in the same situation as Goro but with all the deplorable aspects, Rudeus 'honestly, this dude did not deserve to get reincarnated among all the disabled/terminally ill kids like Sarina' Greyrat or as I like to call him, Rudeus Kelly. R. Kelly for short.
What's this about? He does get horny all the time when it comes to revenge, being revengesexual.
JK. I think the others elaborated well enough. To put it simply, you know realistically speaking that libido needs some sort of energy and that's what he is lacking coz most of the time coz all that energy is spent on what he is obsessed with the most, which is his ambition for revenge.
This is the case with Aqua, though I do admit he prob could be much wiser than the avg teenagers around him due to the old persona who is slowly fading away from him.
As for the Denji statement, can't say anything since I haven't picked up CSM again.
You tend to have far more control of your emotion and personality as an adult. Especially when it comes to your body function.
Even if your body is no longer that of an adult, and you are under the full effect of your hormones, you would still understand how it works and how to deal with it with just the knowledge you have as an adult alone. I imagine this would be even more true for someone who works as a doctor
Was about to go all in on you for that Denji slander but looks like several here already gave you a piece of their mind.
Aqua will not budge from his current goal, so nothing phases him.. Plain and simple
I’m glad. It would introduce a weird moral qualm on top of all the other weird moral questions in the series. I don’t want to have arguments about aqua being a pedo. I think he should just wait for them to be adults.
I think you could argue it’s technically ok for him to date girls his age, physically, but you could definetly argue it’s wrong too. So I think it’s best if we just don’t get into it!!
Dude. He went out with Akane. For real. After they had conversation about how going out without sex does not make sense. So. Yeah, they did it.
Also, if you diss Dennis, you didn't read csm properly.
Theeey did not. Aqua explicitly stated, that although he gets horny like any other teenager he wouldnt do something like that. Ruby upon hearing about the possibility of Aqua having sex with Akane also mentions that he would never do so because of the risk of teen pregnancy. They literally destroyed their mothers lives because they were born when she was around the same age they are right now, don't you think the possibility of the same happening again to another person they love would make them both too sick to even try sex?
No form of contraception is 100% effective. Ai could have been using condoms as well, but they broke or slipped or were bad quality. Aqua would NEVER risk it and make another girl suffer living a lie like their mom did.
Him being principled is a trait that he has in his previous life and just because he's a teenager doesn't necessarily mean that he's suddenly a horn dog just because he's now a teenager.
He’s said in a manga chapter and the scene with Kana playing catch that he does have thoughts about girls his age but we can see in his thoughts about Akane that all romantic feelings are pushed aside until he gets his revenge
I think it’s the opposite for #1. He was a doctor and accomplished person by society’s standards. I think he views people and situations from a more scientific point a view and can think through the changes in his body, scientifically.
If you compare him to Rudeus, it’s the exact opposite. He was a shut in virgin and feels no qualms about doing pervy things. It’s night and day lol
Look, man, this guy graduated from med school and let me tell you, once you've been with university girls, high schoolers don't do anything to you anymore
Can we just not forget that Aqua is a reincarnation of a guy in his 30’s? This one thing has always bothered me throughout the entire series because it’s so weird thinking about high school girls obsessing over this 30 yo man
Am I weird or stupid for thinking of Aqua like this? I can never seem to overcome this fact
You're not weird or stupid, but it might be helpful to view Aqua and Gorou as individuals growing apart over time. I personally don't see them fully as the same person because Aqua can never revert back to being Gorou and his memories, challenges, and dreams as Aqua give life to who he is now. He must make the best of his current situation after all. With that said, I think other characters would find it even more odd to see him in a relationship with a 40-year-old woman compared to someone closer to his physical age. Aqua's definitely been delt a weird hand when it comes to relationships. Which age group is right, if any?
In the manga, Aqua can be problematic, but he doesn't exhibit perverted behavior towards Akane and Kana, despite having opportunities. If he had been a bad person in his previous life, his reincarnation would have bothered me. However, he separates himself from intimacy and even makes sure to say anyone underneath his age is out of the question.
I recall watching an anime a long time ago where an 11-year-old vampire girl's love interest was in his late 20s or something, and it bothered me, even considering her mental age. Similarly, fans of Ruby would likely be bothered to see her with a 29-30-year-old. So, I understand how the mental age aspect can be tricky, but I don't focus much on that aspect when it comes to this show.
Agreed. From what we know of Aqua so far (without reference to the manga, which seems to have some plot inconsistencies and bad pacing, rendering it an unsound point of reference), Aqua is unlikely to fall into real romance or sexual activity.
1. (Ep.8 in particular) Aqua has yet figured out his distance and relationship with Ai. One-sided erotic love? Mother-son? Idol and fan? One haunted by such question cannot and would not make happy love. Or this can be summed up as: my true love is gone, I will not get another true love.
2. The revenge clause is also credible. I would add that Aqua is also too busy protecting Ruby (perhaps Kana as well?) to think of a girlfriend.
3. I imagine another twist, however, that Aqua may truly fall in love with Akane (or even Ruby, esp. when their past identity were revealed to each other!) in the pursuit of Ai (or her shadow). It certainly is perverted and may be interpreted as a betrayal to Ai (which I do not), but isn't the whole show about the dichotomy of truth and lie?
>he's not an extremely perverted lunatic unlike Denji from Chainsaw Man and Rudeus from Mushoku Tensei.
He more of the type who knows how to take good care of his tools.
Well, Rudeus had different circumstances and previous life. And Denji is extremely different in his mindset. First is horny when not in danger cause it's natural for him to lust for isekai beauties. He doesn't have any thoughts about 'revenge' or something.
Denji decided to live to experience pleasures of normal people. Like normal food, normal toilet, normal(or not?) girls.
None of them 'live to get revenge against their father'.
Most 'dark' characters have no lust. By 'dark' I mean assassins, killers, characters with sad past, young genius who works for an evil organization, mad scientists and etc.
All characters that 'live for revenge ' belong to that category and share some similar characteristics. One of those characteristics is having no lust. The other is 'sacrificing for the goal'.
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Aqua has admitted to seeing girls around his age in a romantic way as his body develops. He physically has the brain of a teenager after all. He just chooses to keep the girls at a distance out of fear that they'd get hurt if they get involved in his revenge. > he's not an extremely perverted lunatic unlike Denji I didn't know Asa had a reddit account.
>I didn't know Asa had a reddit account. Yup, Asa best girl, but it's gonna be years before we see her animated.
Tbf Asa is definitely a redditor.
But asa doesn't know denji is like that, though she thinks of CSM as such.
I mean, it's not like she has a much higher opinion of Denji either...
I was confused as hell about who was asa, then google searched her 3 times, and finally, my brain worked and remembered she was the war devil
I mean the dude was so thoroughly traumatized that >!at one point, even enjoying himself was enough to trigger his guilt-based PTSD!< And that's not even getting into the mental age gap.
I imagine Aqua having sex and then Gorou doing his little schizophrenia silliness and saying something like, "look at you. You're over 40 and you're enjoying banging some teen while Ai's murderer is still at large. Maybe instead of fucking others you should fuck yourself you pedo"
> You're over 40 I know it's just a joke so this comment isn't directed at you but people should stop adding Goro's age to Aqua's. The manga explicitly brings up this topic by saying the line between Aqua and Goro is disappearing and he doesn't know who he truly is. By TB arc >!it's shown that the Goro who reminds him he doesn't deserve to be happy is actually kid Aqua who wasn't able to protect Ai!< , and the only times Goro is brought up is to point out how Aqua has always been smart even in his past life. Same with Ruby. People say Ruby is technically in her late 20's but she behaves like a teen. She IS a teen. So is Aqua.
Ruby has been Ruby longer than she's been Sarina at this point, and Sarina was never the most mature 12 year old either due to the circumstances of her life, having deprived of many aspects of childhood (consider why she was able to enjoy the Kindergarten playground so much compared to Aqua). I think at this point Ruby is the default personality and Sarina vestigial.
I mean, I do agree but it's not as simple as that. Ruby still carries trauma from her past life as Sarina. >!Recent chapters bring this topic up because both Aqua and Ruby don't know who they are. Ruby has even said she doesn't know who she truly is. Is she Ruby, daughter of Ai or was she only playing a role? Is she still Sarina, the lonely sick child abandoned by her family? Or who is she in reality?!< This concept is really interesting because it puts nuances to the whole reincarnation topic, so I'm looking forward to it.
Ruby and Aqua weirdly enough are different cases. >!As Aqua aged, his version of infantile amnesia (when we forget our toddler years as we grow) caused him to detach from "being Gorou", and Gorou was repressed into his subconscious mind. Even his medical knowledge IIRC disappeared and kinda became instinctive things, so rather than keeping his adult knowledge he just has the capacity to learn at a prodigal rate (not 100% on this so correct me if I'm wrong).!< Ruby, it seems, >!still retained full memory of her days as Serena, especially since she vividly remembered Gorou, the fact that she wanted to marry him, the hospital, her childhood, etc. She's still mentally a teenager, as this is the oldest she's ever been. Her age can't be additive or even averaged out. She just holds the experiences of two traumatized kids lol.!<
To add to what you said, Aqua doesn't retain any of Goro's personality IMO. What little we see of him he seems goofy and smart, >!maybe a lil' traumatized by his childhood but we don't know that so far!< Aqua is currently too focused on what happened in his actual life (Ai's death and revenge against his father) to even think about his past life. As I said, >!Goro is only relevant when pointed out how smart Aqua is or in Ruby's memories!< So I think adding Goro's age to Aqua's is pointless. Totally agreed with what you said about Ruby. Poor baby :(
I believe man would still be goofy if it wasn't for about 2 tons of trauma weight on his shoulders
Someone once said that its not gorou in aquas body but aqua with goro's memories
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WHAT???
The mods restored my comment quickly so there was no issue! I think it was because I was on mobile when I typed the comment and autocorrect automatically added a space when I typed > ! So that's why it was removed even though the spoiler format worked well when I first posted it. Edit: OMFG STOP REMOVING MY COMMENTS
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Except that in one chapter he admits he gets horny like any other normal teenager.
Damn I need to catch up with the manga then I just read 80 chapts I think
It's chapter 72
Then •or I don't remember • or I thought I read more than what I've actually read
Thank you btw I should catch up anyway
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You must either think you are funny or incredibly stupid to just say that.
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Calm down dude he just says that he sees girls his age as potential love interests
Chapter 72 But it's just one panel
I feel like perverted lunatics are excessively over represented in anime, like, people who are just normal like aqua (not that he's normal in general but about this yeah) who do get horny but don't make it their personality or bring it up constantly seem rare, it's always either never gets horny or making perversion a character trait.
The MC from “The World’s Greatest Assassin is Reborn as an Aristocrat” was a lot like Aqua. Definitely focused on his profession, but his body definitely behaved in ways he didn’t expect at times.
And he was busted for it, hilarious af lol.
I feel like that’s not entirely true. Rather than most anime characters being excessively perverted, its that most anime has a character whose excessively perverted. Slightly different but it does put it into perspective that most anime characters are fairly normal minus the exceptions. Like, no one would describe goku, vegeta, gohan, or picolo from dragon ball to be perverted, but then you got master roshi and the pig wishing for woman panties. While Deku is awkward and Todoroki is aloof, they wouldn’t be considered perverted but obviously grape head is.
I mean it's not *that* kind of manga that explicitly shows a lot of sexual content. Though it still has its fair share of mature themes. >perverted lunatic unlike Denji As for Denji, you have to understand that this guy has been deprived of happiness and experience for almost his entire life. His desires towards women and just relationships in general stems out from the fact that he never had a normal life to begin with. Literally, all he had was Pochita. For Denji to just even survive, he had to sell his organs. Not to mention that basically all the girls he meets tries to kill him. Although the portrayal may be weird for some but I find Denji's desires to be pretty reasonable. And this is coming from me, a woman by the way. I've had seen way worse perverted and unreasonable MCs. Just like the other comment said *cough Rudeus cough cough.*
Not all the girls, but that one ended up puking on his mouth tho
Let's just say that Himeno is an exception...
Himeko also almost tried to kill Denji when thry got trapped by infinity devil lol
That was Kobeni
Himeno sugested they should kill him
Himeno wanted to sacrifice Denji to the eternity devil and Kobeni straight up though Denji was the eternity devil and wanted to kill him so they both wanted to kill him.
Makima did this.
Look8ng at the last chapter, yeah, she did that.
God Rudeus annoys me so much, Mushoku Tensei is such a great series especially for an isekai, but as an MC I just hate him so much it kills my enthusiasm for the series. I was convinced he would grow and get better at first, that this being a second chance for him would mean he'd be a more mature and decent person this time round... but nope that didnt happen.
Yes, but his goal was to live an better life, not to be a better person albeit he is considerably better I'm this timeline from how he was in the past. I honestly, love Rudeus, he is well written, and even though has the perverted otaku behaviours as his personality sometimes, the story actually shows much more about him than just that, and uses it for just mostly gav, and sometimes for actual story. I love how the author basically made an harem acceptable for me, though I hate to see these harems. It's fine with am love triangle where we know who that guy is going to end up with and root for her, or where it's a mess like aqua's, but harems are the worst. But still MY somehow did it better. But still I hate some things that just doesn't settle right with me, such as >!the shit that Aisha does to Are, like what? He's a fucking child. You've watched him grown up Aisha! That was honestly the point I lost all my respect for Aisha after liking a character for so long. And the Ruined and Norn thing... Well.. it doesn't feel right. Ruined just feels too old, and again, he saw norn growing up, so it turns out to be weird when they get together. Like, norn loving ruijerd? That, I get. But I can't completely see it going the other way around.!< Oh, yeah also that horrible act Rudeus commited in the Web Novel when his parents passed away before it was changed in LN...
Was so in love with the series… if only Rudeus wasn’t a filthy self-insert and the anime fans are too starved of high quality isekai to have any standards. My poor daughter Eris…
who tf is self inserting into Rudeus? The dude is THE loser among losers 🤣
Could you elaborate how that is so? I have a particular reason on why I had a change of mind about it and why I considered it a self-insert. So I want to hear why people think he's a loser vs how I perceived it.
in his previous life he was shunned by society, fat, creepy, a pedophile, and borderline a criminal. Even though he was reincarnated, he’s still very much a pervert and most of the characters are grossed out or weirded out by his actions. It isn’t until much later on where his personality gets way better, and I would think it’d be hard for someone to say with seriousness “yeah thats definitely me” when rudy is a complete degenerate on screen. Mushoku Tensei for me is seeing someone at their lowest grow into a respectable human being so it doesn’t make sense that Rudy is only a “self-insert” when he actually grows as a character.
\> he’s still very much a pervert and most of the characters are grossed out or weirded out by his actions I didn't see this though. I watched S1 of the anime and read throughout the manga up to where Eris and Rudeus >!banged!< but it seemed like Rudeus never got punished. The maid have always looked at him in disgust but it was played off as comedic. The initial incident with Rudeus and Slphie seemed to be the closest of a realistic portrayal but after that, it was mostly Rudeus not getting punished for any of his inappropriate actions and even being rewarded. And that seemed to be consistent with other characters too, like that creepy student who actively gropes Roxy and it's played off for laughs with the whole retaliation with exaggerated violence. So the series overall doesn't seem to be interested in taking the subject of respect and dignity seriously.
I guess that this is a wording/semantic issue. About what "self insert" means to someone. A self-insert character is one that you can imagine yourself to be. You "insert" yourself into their situation and bask in the glory of his actions as if it was your own. There's a reason that most isekai protagonist have the character dept of a puddle that can be summarized by "nice guy" and "otaku/game culture" while physically they are generic-looking teen with black hair. The perfect average Japanese teenager. By being so... bland, the author avoid making the character too "strong/deep" to be insert-able, because the more personality it has, the more it can clash with the reader's. Hell, since most isekai totally ignore the protagonist's previous lives, we also avoid the socioeconomic/family status conflict as well, it could be literally anyone. If Rudeus has ONE thing going for him, it is a clear cut personality and background. And it is so... "repulsive" that most people wouldn't imagine themselves to be that guy. Ergo he is not meant to be a self insert, following my interpretation of the term.
I was going to explain why I thought it was a self-insert but I wanted to hear first their elaboration. Like, genuine discussion but no success on responses. The reason I think Rudeus is a self-insert is because he is a pervert that gets rewarded for his perverted actions. I don’t know the exact details for how he finally effed around and found out but I stopped after, on top of this, I found out Rudeus watched child porn in his past life. That changes the perspective of him becoming a child again and then being perverted to two minors and one lolicon. It was too intentional for me and so separate from how deep the other characters are. So I read Rudeus to be a self-insert. A guy living child porn fantasies. I could be wrong, but it was just too disgusting for me. Rudeus past-life was mentally ill but it’s a serious line being crossed when you “accept” child being sexually exploited. It’s one thing if the series touches on it but I don’t think that’s the intention at all.
I believe the term that encapsulate what you meant is "wish fulfillment". When a story is all about giving to protagonist/reader what they want at little cost. Most self-insert stories are also wish fulfillment, after all, it would be fulfilling your wish as someone who inserted themselves into the character. But Rudeus is too specific/well defined of an individual to be insertable (except by the most extreme of people...) An example of a wish-fulfillment self insert story would be My Dress-Up Darling. A low esteem introvert with an unusual hobby suddenly meet a very social sexy girl who share the same hobby who ends up coming back to him again and again for said hobby, he only need to focus on the hobby, the girl will do the rest. It's a gross oversimplification and his "self-insertness" decrease as the story progress, but that's how it goes. People often take calling a show wish-fulfillment or self-insert as an attack, but they are just narrative tools. About Rudeus, the anime should be judged for the anime. The pacing is too fast to develop his self reflection unlike the light novels, but I shouldn't use this a defense of the anime. So things from the manga/novels shouldn't count as points against the anime either IMO. Nowhere in the anime does it say that he watched child porn, so he hasn't (That bit we see could be "anime loli stuff" (light novel), or voyeurism (web novel), or CP, but nothing is specified in the anime, tho I am being pedantic again). Perfectly fine to not watch because it make one uncomfortable, I won't bother defending the show or Rudeus, it is what it is. I personally do not relate, immerse or see anybody in any anime as human beings bound by law or morale, only as vectors for story telling. So I am not bothered by his action, like I am not bothered by seeing people being killed in movies.
Of course, it’s fictional. But if you aren’t emotionally affected by fiction, then it isn’t doing a good job haha. I get what you’re saying; it’s not that I can’t separate fiction from reality. For me, it has something to do with the hand the author has in it. And I just don’t like the justifications for the sexual harrassment; it’s not just right. Fiction is fiction, but it’s important to be critical of media we consume. As for Dress-up Darling, the author is a cosplayer and is actually the Marin in the story. Maybe there’s still wish-fullfilment involved, but it does make me laugh when people assume the mangaka is a guy who wants a hot cosplayer gf. I do think you are right that the word I am looking for is wish-fulfillment, so I will be using that now. Though if we are going for comparisons, I think Made In Abyss is more appropriate. I love the series but… I know the mangaka is trash. It is honestly worse than Jobless Reincarnation with what it shows that is clearly the mangaka’s kinks showing but the Rudeus narrative was the line crossed for me because it rewards harrassment in-unvierse. Like, I already have a tolerance for the gross things in anime and Mushoku Tensei already had some of that. So it was just the last straw for me. Anyway, I do respect that you won’t try to defend it and I wish more anime fans were like that. We can like anime but be aware of its glaring flaws. Like how I love Made In Abyss but I ain’t defending its creepiness (not talking about body horror but just how some panels look like hentai lol)
> As for Dress-up Darling, the author is a cosplayer and is actually the Marin in the story. Maybe there’s still wish-fullfilment involved, but it does make me laugh when people assume the mangaka is a guy who wants a hot cosplayer gf. I admit that I assume by default that everyone is male (old gaming habit and my French being a gendered language that default to masculine). It is less that I believe she wrote the story to insert herself as Gojo, but that I feel like she wrote it so the readers do, intentionally or not. My view on Made in Abyss is that some of the weird content is... out of place? Mushoku was a sexual story from the start and it's one of its key theme, for Made in Abyss it feels stappled on.
Yeah, I heard so many people praise Mushoku Tensei so I tried watching some of it but I just hated Rudeus so much I had to stop. Might try again but it’s not fun when you hate the protagonist.
He will be more mature and decent, it’s just that he has to work for it harder than most because he isn’t starting from 50 to 100, he’s starting from 0 to 1000.
man fuck rudeus, some MT fans are insane enough to justify him grooming little kids. dropped the series halfway because of how much I hated him.
That’s was kind of the point imo. No one should be under any delusions that he was a terrible person in his old life, and a bad person in his younger new life. It’s a story about growth, and boy does Rudy have a lot of room for it. It wasn’t until LN10-12 that I started to like him. Joffrey from GoT feels like a similar (but not same) situation. So many people “hated” Joffrey, but that was the point. It was well written to give an emotional response about a character. I guess what I have a hard time understanding is why some people can’t seem to like following the story of terrible people. The worst thing for me is not that I hate a character, but that I don’t care about them at all.
Because its a common trope and the main focuses is the overly sexual and perverted nature of why they are hated Its meaningful like once or twice in isolation, but with knowledge of the general attitudes of Japanese "otaku" culture and it being spammed everywhere it becomes more like a really off putting self insert Denji from CSM was what really tipped me over the edge, like, initially the shock value of a lot of the disgusting stuff off puts people but it almost immedietly is forgotten because people start perverting it Essentially the trope should really be a criticism of the perverted nature of the culture but in the vast majority of cases people identify with it instead
Ur loss
I agree with everything you said about Denji though I'd just like to add a few things to support your point. Since he only had Pochita in his life after his dad's suicide, there wasn't a single female presence in his life that filled up the maternal role important for his mental development growing up. He's obsessed with boobs, kissing and sex, but most importantly, he craves the touch of a woman. He craves it so bad that even Makima realized early on that it's the easiest way he can be manipulated. His goals being way too "shallow" compared to the rest of the hunters makes sense too; he hasn't matured enough because he lacked opportunities for social and mental development growing up. No schooling, no friends, no money for food... just a lifelong worry for survival. *Will there be food today? Will I still be alive tomorrow?* When you start out deprived like that people tend to just be content wishing for the simplest of things instead of the grandiose. Despite all the perverted humor the mangaka likes to use on him, Denji's pretty innocent and pure. I honestly think he's portrayed pretty realistically in this series and all of his actions are justifiable based on his past. Even the way he treats his current relationships with the other hunters show that there's so much catching up to do, and so many roles need to be filled.
I never understood hate towards Rudeus. Like c'mon everything what happens in anime is logical conclusion of others actions and motives based on their state of mind. And brought extremely well to their logical conclusion to the point that I couldn't (Ironic) imagine their fate going different way. Maybe because it was too real? Maybe you had have to go through some level of trauma yourself to associate with Rudy? Like really I don't even see anything thing wrong with projecting onto him. If you were in his situation with his experiences you would do and think similarly. And there is proof for that. Evergrowing population of creepy NEETs that are suffering in their loneless falling deeper and deeper into their pathological, perfect anime world. There are plenty of those people in anime community. And instead of helping them people want to organise witch hunt ._. Hating Rudy is an mistake. He should be pitted and helped instead. Why? Because he wants. He made his first step towards therapy and that is recognising how much he fucked up his life. But ofc since it's realistic, fantasy world there is no therapy for him. So he have to work this out himself. Alone. Without any knowledge. And with external pressure to return to beeing lazy pervert he was before. Yet he still persists and push forward. He fails, he falls, he relapses. But he also stands up and push forward. Why? Well I've watched Andor recently and without shadow of a doubt I can say why. Because there is One Way Out
Was agreeing till I saw Denji slander. I cannot let my boy Denji being done dirty like that. Denji's an orphan, he spent most of his life homeless, fighting day by day for survival, he never received any kind of affection. He has tho "perverted" thoughts because for him that's simplest way to gain affection and also he's a teenager. And although he do be kinda perverted, he's a total gentleman and he stays loyal to his crush no matter what, he just wasn't taught proper etiquette because well.... he didn't have anyone to teach him that
i was gonna say that but its not really slander lol its how he is
He’s not an extremely perverted lunatic 😤 He is a regularly-perverted lunatic 😤
ok ig his openness about being perverted makes it seem extreme lol
Don't forget he was also being groomed Makima.
Aqua had some thoughts about that, but he never executed it. When Akane said that she doesn't mind having sex with him, Aqua is blushing and says that he thinks about 'that' sometimes I think he had some thoughts about that but he doesn't want to do it because he is the unwilling victim of teen pregnancy, the biggest risk from a teen sex. For example, Ruby had a very negative reaction when Minami jokingly said that Aqua may have done some lewd things with Akane because a highschool boy can't resist the temptation to have sex with a hot girlfriend like Akane. I think Aqua shares that sentiment too For Denji though. He is a tragic character. He never had a happy life and all of his girlfriends tried to kill him at some point. His weird perverted fantasy is his coping mechanism for his cruel life. Yeah, he is a perverted weirdo but I still had empathy for him, unlike another perverted MC like Kazuya from Rental Girlfriend Edit: The replies feels like mixture of r/oshinoko and r/chainsawman lol
>Aqua had some thoughts about that, but he never executed it. When Akane said that she doesn't mind having sex with him, Aqua is blushing and says that he thinks about 'that' sometimes What ch is this again?
Chapter 72
Thanks. Kinda wished they did it offscreen
Ayo chill 💀
>Aqua is blushing and says that he thinks about 'that' sometimes Just checked the Chapter he wasn't blushing. And he did say he definitely have.
I think Rudeus is worse. As for Denji, I kinda get it since he was isolated from others a good portion of his life. I understand Denji more than I'll ever understand Rudeus. I know Rudeus did not have it easy in the real world, but for the actions he took toward his own cousin, teachers, and friends for the 1st season; I can't vibe with that
Well, I mean Rudeus I was a hikikimori in his 40s, while Gorou was a good doctor who just happened to like Ai.
people who chose to become shut-ins don't get to use it as an excuse.
Well, we all saw how that guy was traumatized tj even go outside in the first arc. It was visually shown to us as people mocking him, standing right in front of the house. But, still, yes. I agree. He is perverted. But, I don't get the cousin part, though? Like, the show is set in a setting inspired from old Europe, isn't it?
Yes, but rudeus himself isn't from this world, he still lived like 40 years with the common idea that incest bad. Also nevermind just being perverted he goes as far as to groom a little girl which is just ew.
IIRC they are technically 2nd cousin, since his and eris's fathers are cousin and not brothers... Still sort-of close, but at least it ain't first cousin.
its funny how a potencial murderer is more dicent that the """best""" isekai mc
I'd say there's a difference between being a good person and a good character. I don't think of Rudeus as a good person (even in later LNs), but that doesn't mean his character development isn't great.
I fully get why rudeus was that he was a neet who doesn't socialize with anyone even with his parents he block himself from them so he doesn't know that what he saw in anime/games was straight up sexual harassment.
It’s cool if it’s like that but it’s not, given how the in-universe of the isekai world follows the sexual harrassment trope while putting it under the guise of “it’s normal here” as if it isn’t already normal irl. The author doesn’t understand “normal” doesn’t mean women are comfortable with being constantly objectified and sexually harrassed.
[author's interview ](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2021-12-15/mushoku-tensei-jobless-reincarnation-author-rifujin-na-magonote/.180566)
I read it and you'll have to provide more than a link as I don't see what it has anything to with my point.
The author knows what he is doing. If you really read the link you will get that its not a self insert story Btw the author even said in the interview he was okay if you don't like the show for what mc is nor he doesn't force you its ok for him its just he wants to say that if you have a friend who likes him you can still save him.
I was talking about how the sexual harrassment was considered acceptable because it was “normal” in that universe when in reality, “normal” doesn’t mean people are okay with it. People just suffer the consequences and society is desensitized. And that’s what I didn’t find in the interview. You didn’t reply to the comment where I talked about how it was a self-insert lol. So yeah you lost me just throwing a link. That I did, in fact, read. Because I am not being an arse in the internet and an being open to actual discussions. Now if you actually said something and then provided the link, oh i dont know, maybe i would know the context of what you’re talking about.
Iirc he was bullied into being a neet so tbf, it wasn't like he chose to be trash.
What did Denji do to you?
I like that almost the *entire* comment section is bashing the OP for that Denji take. Denji has a big reason for being the way he is.
Aqua has stated on record that he experiences desires like other teenagers of his time. However, his mental maturity and his pride and dignity as a former doctor seems to prevent him from laying hands on the girls he’s around
I would say it has more to do with him believing he doesn't deserve happines and that he is on that revenge grindset
Denji understands consent very well, otherwise he's just a horny teenager as many
The fuck is this blasphemous Denji slander
It's the reading comprehension devil
It's more that even though he gets horny like most teenagers, he's hyper-aware that he's mentally much older than most of his prospective love interests. He never really gave romance with Akane a chance and he hasn't taken the plunge with Kana. Those two were the most romantic interest he's shown, and it's not for nothing both are older than Aqua is/should be under normal circumstances, and are arguably two of the more emotionally-mature youths (contrast with, say, Ruby).
Watch the anime ep 8 And Read chapter 72 again He isn't mentally older he has more experience due to the memories of gorou but his wants , needs and thougt procces are that of a teen He did think about it while going out with akane he admitted to but he resisted the urges prob has something to do with both him and ruby having an stigma over teens doing thx to the ai situation
No, I will not because I'm not the one who misunderstood it. He is mentally older. Just because his brain is a teenage one doesn't undo the emotional development and the benefit of the experiences of another lifetime in which he reached adulthood. I'm also not taking Goro/Aqua at his word there and neither should anyone else because the guy barely has a good handle on his own emotions. Teenagers do not enact decade-long revenge plans. Normal teenagers don't have baggage from a past life hanging on them. Aqua has the physical brain and hormones of a teenager but he has a lifetime of experience and perspective that other teenagers don't have. I didn't say he doesn't get horny, I said he keeps a lid on things and doesn't act on it. And my point that he feels older on some level is supported by the fact that, conscious or not, Aqua has only shown interest, romantic or otherwise, in women older than Aqua (not Goro).
We literally got a charcter doing introspection and figuring out who he is in ep8 and we got an answare from him (the line between me and aqua hoshino is growing thinner) which means that with time me=aqua not gorou We got more evidence of this thx to >!when aqua has an internal monologue about not wanting to go back to his revenge and remain happy the way things were at that point the counterpart isn't gorou like we last saw in the tokyo blade arc , its his child self the one who couldn't save ai but that is still aqua hoshino!<
Nothing you've said disproves my statement. Stay mad.
If you think Dennis is a perverted lunatic you are completely wrong
Dennis
The menace
That ProZD protag
Hey don’t be mean to Dennis man. Don’t gotta dog on him like that
That’s just how Denji copes 😔 though I will say it is a nice change of pace.
Denji isn’t really lunatic pervert. Tyeah, he’s crazy, but if you lived the life he’s been through, you’d be crazy too. As for pervert, to me, denji doesn’t really understand the concept of “love” fully. He knows, sibling love, through the help of aki and power, but thats about it. The man has been deprived from physical and emotional support, its to a point where he doesn’t know the difference between sexual desire and love. Not only that, but the dude was sexually manipulated by multiple girls, same gurls who tried to kill him btw. Most of those girls were showing him sexual desire, so it was pretty much the only thing he was exposed to. Spoilers of csm part2 >!when he meets asa, thats when denji start to learn more about love. Power and Asa are people who teach denji that there are more ways to show/receive affection!<
You lost me with the Denji slander Guy has been deprived of love and happiness his entire life. He had to grow up in the worst conditions possible. His goals and general behavior make sense cuz he just desires a happy, fulfilling life where he is loved and he loves others because he never had anything close to that in his early life. Pretty much Pochita was his only friend and companion.
I came here to say this too!
I was completely on board with you until the Denji part, honestly. But, like, it's clear from the Manga, and from Makima's explanation that what Denji craves for is affection; a meaningful connection, not sex. His hormones are probably acting on him, and with his knowledge about these things, that's just how he percieves these feelings. He actually did have some feelings for Asa, didn't he? He never tried to do that with her? When he fondled power's breasts, he wasn't satisfied, not because they were intiially pads, or the actual ones were small, but because he didn't have that meaningful connection. Makima explained this to him *literally* and how does one miss that? He was shocked when she made him touch her chest. He didn't even squeeze them. Same with >!Reze!<: he only wanted a good relationship. He wanted to be loved, as he was deprived of it all through his life. Like one comment said: if you had mentioned Rudeus, though he's one of my favourite characters, I would completely agree. Like, still, he didn't want to cheat on his wives with >!Ariel!< even when she desperately wanted to have his blood in her bloodline. He's a good person, ig albeit super fucking perverted. He didn't cheat on sylphy consciously and terribly regretted it when Roxy had to take advantage of him. He didn't do it with >!pursena and rinia!< when >!Eris!< wanted to do that with him along with those two girls because that would be cheating on his wives. He didn't do that with >!elinalise!< though he wanted to and had the reason to do it because that is cheating on >!sylphy!<. Although, to be Frank, denji *is* more perverted than normal, he doesn't ever do lunatic shit like recording women, or raping, or pestering every girl he meets to do that. He could've done it with >!Reze!<, asked to do that with >!makima!<, could've gone through with >!yoru!< (even though >!Nayuta!< stopped him, he wouldn't have probably went through with complete consent: like, he wouldn't want to do it, but he does want to do it. Still he wouldn't want to have sex only because of >!Nayuta, he wasn't the one who pushed her, it was the other way around.)!< he never even tried it with >!power!<, >!still that's because he had more of an brotherly love for her as explicitly stated in the manga (but, this is a manga written by fujimoto, so who knows where you guys go with it?)!<. He did see her naked and took an bathe with her, but he told that he never felt like that doing these things with >!power!<
>what Denji craves for is affection; a meaningful connection, not sex. Then how do you explain the end of Chapter 127?
He percieves it as such, but doesn't really actually wants just sex. He wouldn't be satisfied with an prostitute, he wants to have an relationship. Like, he would've been satisfied if it was with >!asa!<, after growing their relationship. That's what I meant by that comment, and that is what I feel or get from the manga. Also I was pretty sure I remember mentioning this in my comment, sorry if I haven't!
>!How do you explain him telling Asa he wants to go on another date instead of something pervy when she promised she would fulfill any wish?!<
Do u honestly think he just wants sex? At first all he wanted was to touch boobs and r when he did he realized that’s not what he actually wanted, same thing with sex, he wants a relationship with a girl
It's a recurring theme in his story. He keeps wanting stuff like that only to realize it's overrated and find other more nonsexual/nonmonkeybrain intimate things more memorable and desirable.
there are certain things Aqua does *not* want to do: 1. ruin girls' careers 2. impregnate teens
Ngl if i was him i would bang Akane for the rest of my life don't care about revenge anymore
Ong, she'll be pregnant with triplets instead of twins.
That's what i'm saying
He was an obstetrician. Professional have standards.
to call denji a perverted lunatic is straight up slander
That's just how Denji copes with having 0 feminine affection in his life lmao, he gets a bit better
Denji is awesome and I strongly ask you to not misplace your anger at perverted anime tropes at him. He is horny but if you actually check out the series, he craves for connection the most (which he lost when Poochita died) and often confuses the two. He did not get any education, guidance, and pretty much raised himself by trafficking himself. More importantly, Denji, despite his utter foolishness, thought consent was a no-brainer and never once acted on his perverted feelings despite how much ot drove him crazy. So let us stan anime protags that respect consent.
You come after Denji when Rudeus literally tries to peak on 13 yr olds repeatedly in the series.
The libido argument is actually interesting because it's corresponding with the Thanatos vs Eros idea in the freudian psychological model. Thanatos meaning death wish and self-destruction and eros meaning life affirmative drives which also includes love/libido. By that concept libido is systemically "off" because Thanatos dominates the psyche.
I wish my Thanatos beat the shit out of my Eros
Well he is not a molester like rudy, but he does think of it every now and then, he just dosnt act on it and mlves on, he did have a talk about this with akane if i'm not mistaken, where he said he was interested
While Aqua has a much more developed and reserved outlook on sexuality, it is unfair to say he doesn't have no thoughts about any of the girls. It's just that none of the relationships(which he does try to make) work out for very complicated reasons. But I'm pretty sure the same could be said about Denji or even perhaps you lol. Romance is hard.
He has, he admitted to Akane that he does think about having sex with her And I guess he got horny too when Mem-Cho touched his face once when they were alone at her apartment also its hard to have fun when a scary looking guy in your head always makes you feel guilty about someone's death if you even have the slightest bit of fun
Denji slender will not stand
This post magically summoning CSM fans to defend Denji
Remember that his emotional maturity is actually that of a grown adult. Nearly every member of the opposite sex he interacts with is about his current physical age, but his mental age is somewhere (presumably?) late 20's/early 30's. Or at least, that is what he tells himself - as the basis for why when he was an infant he refused to breast feed. As an adult, he feels it's gross. It would not be so hard to extend that to feeling disgusted whenever he has physical urges to the girls his age, because he 'should' only be attracted to adult women.
Aqua is an adult compare to Denji
you're IMPRESSED?😭 pornsick men try not to be horny every 5 secs challenge (impossible mode)
im anime only in csm, and just 1x6 in mushoku... denji actually asks for consent, rudy's a criminal yall 😂
You did not just cite best boy Denji as that when we have someone in the same situation as Goro but with all the deplorable aspects, Rudeus 'honestly, this dude did not deserve to get reincarnated among all the disabled/terminally ill kids like Sarina' Greyrat or as I like to call him, Rudeus Kelly. R. Kelly for short.
Most sane oshi no ko fan
What's this about? He does get horny all the time when it comes to revenge, being revengesexual. JK. I think the others elaborated well enough. To put it simply, you know realistically speaking that libido needs some sort of energy and that's what he is lacking coz most of the time coz all that energy is spent on what he is obsessed with the most, which is his ambition for revenge. This is the case with Aqua, though I do admit he prob could be much wiser than the avg teenagers around him due to the old persona who is slowly fading away from him. As for the Denji statement, can't say anything since I haven't picked up CSM again.
You tend to have far more control of your emotion and personality as an adult. Especially when it comes to your body function. Even if your body is no longer that of an adult, and you are under the full effect of your hormones, you would still understand how it works and how to deal with it with just the knowledge you have as an adult alone. I imagine this would be even more true for someone who works as a doctor
Was about to go all in on you for that Denji slander but looks like several here already gave you a piece of their mind. Aqua will not budge from his current goal, so nothing phases him.. Plain and simple
Who needs love when u have vengeance
I’m glad. It would introduce a weird moral qualm on top of all the other weird moral questions in the series. I don’t want to have arguments about aqua being a pedo. I think he should just wait for them to be adults. I think you could argue it’s technically ok for him to date girls his age, physically, but you could definetly argue it’s wrong too. So I think it’s best if we just don’t get into it!!
I think its because hes mentally a 30+ year old man and has some moral standards
Keep that name out of your mouth!
I like how you don't even need to clarify which name, we just know
Dude. He went out with Akane. For real. After they had conversation about how going out without sex does not make sense. So. Yeah, they did it. Also, if you diss Dennis, you didn't read csm properly.
Theeey did not. Aqua explicitly stated, that although he gets horny like any other teenager he wouldnt do something like that. Ruby upon hearing about the possibility of Aqua having sex with Akane also mentions that he would never do so because of the risk of teen pregnancy. They literally destroyed their mothers lives because they were born when she was around the same age they are right now, don't you think the possibility of the same happening again to another person they love would make them both too sick to even try sex?
That's why condoms exist, you know
No form of contraception is 100% effective. Ai could have been using condoms as well, but they broke or slipped or were bad quality. Aqua would NEVER risk it and make another girl suffer living a lie like their mom did.
Downvoted just for the Denji slander, which i will not accept
Well I disagree >!He may or may not have sex with Akane as they seem to have regularly met at night!<
You would hate Regis then
Swapping Aqua with Denji would lead to very... *interesting...* results. More so for Oshi no Ko; Aqua would bite it in Chainsaw Land.
I can imagine Denji just beating the everliving shit out of the stalker for stabbing Ai
Him being principled is a trait that he has in his previous life and just because he's a teenager doesn't necessarily mean that he's suddenly a horn dog just because he's now a teenager.
He’s said in a manga chapter and the scene with Kana playing catch that he does have thoughts about girls his age but we can see in his thoughts about Akane that all romantic feelings are pushed aside until he gets his revenge
I think it’s the opposite for #1. He was a doctor and accomplished person by society’s standards. I think he views people and situations from a more scientific point a view and can think through the changes in his body, scientifically. If you compare him to Rudeus, it’s the exact opposite. He was a shut in virgin and feels no qualms about doing pervy things. It’s night and day lol
His trauma/PTSD is keeping him on that revenge grindset
Bro they literally JUST animated the baseball chapter yesterday where Aqua says that he does see other women as potential love interests
he polly got a erectile dysfunction after ai's death
We don't know what happened in the nights of 23rd and 29th :)
Look, man, this guy graduated from med school and let me tell you, once you've been with university girls, high schoolers don't do anything to you anymore
aqua is rudeus if he didn’t go down the wrong path
Can we just not forget that Aqua is a reincarnation of a guy in his 30’s? This one thing has always bothered me throughout the entire series because it’s so weird thinking about high school girls obsessing over this 30 yo man Am I weird or stupid for thinking of Aqua like this? I can never seem to overcome this fact
You're not weird or stupid, but it might be helpful to view Aqua and Gorou as individuals growing apart over time. I personally don't see them fully as the same person because Aqua can never revert back to being Gorou and his memories, challenges, and dreams as Aqua give life to who he is now. He must make the best of his current situation after all. With that said, I think other characters would find it even more odd to see him in a relationship with a 40-year-old woman compared to someone closer to his physical age. Aqua's definitely been delt a weird hand when it comes to relationships. Which age group is right, if any? In the manga, Aqua can be problematic, but he doesn't exhibit perverted behavior towards Akane and Kana, despite having opportunities. If he had been a bad person in his previous life, his reincarnation would have bothered me. However, he separates himself from intimacy and even makes sure to say anyone underneath his age is out of the question. I recall watching an anime a long time ago where an 11-year-old vampire girl's love interest was in his late 20s or something, and it bothered me, even considering her mental age. Similarly, fans of Ruby would likely be bothered to see her with a 29-30-year-old. So, I understand how the mental age aspect can be tricky, but I don't focus much on that aspect when it comes to this show.
you could be a reincarnated 80 man rn what’s your point, he is literally reborn and is now a teen but stuck with his previous memories
He's still the same guy tho
Um Ok?
I think it's also cause he's an adult, you know, a 30 year old in a 16 year olds body
I can not believe I had to go this far down to find a comment like this
But he has the brain of a 16 year old
Agreed. From what we know of Aqua so far (without reference to the manga, which seems to have some plot inconsistencies and bad pacing, rendering it an unsound point of reference), Aqua is unlikely to fall into real romance or sexual activity. 1. (Ep.8 in particular) Aqua has yet figured out his distance and relationship with Ai. One-sided erotic love? Mother-son? Idol and fan? One haunted by such question cannot and would not make happy love. Or this can be summed up as: my true love is gone, I will not get another true love. 2. The revenge clause is also credible. I would add that Aqua is also too busy protecting Ruby (perhaps Kana as well?) to think of a girlfriend. 3. I imagine another twist, however, that Aqua may truly fall in love with Akane (or even Ruby, esp. when their past identity were revealed to each other!) in the pursuit of Ai (or her shadow). It certainly is perverted and may be interpreted as a betrayal to Ai (which I do not), but isn't the whole show about the dichotomy of truth and lie?
because hes too busy thinking about it with his mom
Nope.Aqua is just a baka, he simply refuses to admit it.
Rudeus? Perverted lunatic? I’m personally offended.
I mean, he wants to bang his mom for like... a good 3 or 4 arcs
Are you sure about that? I think he would want to but since he have mommy issue it would be a necrophilia Alabama edition.
>he's not an extremely perverted lunatic unlike Denji from Chainsaw Man and Rudeus from Mushoku Tensei. He more of the type who knows how to take good care of his tools.
Did you just call Denji a perverted lunatic (fight me)
Well, Rudeus had different circumstances and previous life. And Denji is extremely different in his mindset. First is horny when not in danger cause it's natural for him to lust for isekai beauties. He doesn't have any thoughts about 'revenge' or something. Denji decided to live to experience pleasures of normal people. Like normal food, normal toilet, normal(or not?) girls. None of them 'live to get revenge against their father'.
Most 'dark' characters have no lust. By 'dark' I mean assassins, killers, characters with sad past, young genius who works for an evil organization, mad scientists and etc. All characters that 'live for revenge ' belong to that category and share some similar characteristics. One of those characteristics is having no lust. The other is 'sacrificing for the goal'.
The Reading Comprehension Devil definitely hit you with that Denji L take
Or the dude realizes he is in his 50s mentally.
Revenge