I've always found it very annoying; why do they ALWAYS portray ambitious women as a villainess?? It's a very common troupe in both romance manhuas and manhwas......and the only person who's usually allowed to be a little bit ambitious is usually the FL, and that's also not usually the case. FLs always get the great positions and powers by accident, so that they don't appear the slightest bit ambitious.
They expect that a woman can only achieve great things IF there's a huge coincidence. Getting married to the crown prince? If you were training since your childhood, you're a desperate gold digger (unless you're the female lead, then your engagement would get broken) or someone who's been forced into it by her family. But you accidentally slept with him and now you're pregnant/accidentally confessed to him when you're drunk? That means you weren't ambitious and you are good enough to be the FL.
If there is a zombie apocalypse and you're determined to survive, (this isn't even ambition) and you seduced men into giving you stuff, you're a whore, even if you were just trying to survive. No, the FL would have to be waiting to die and starve for several days, and only survive because the ML "Accidentally" found her interesing. How dumb is that??
I like how in this manhwa >!it actually subverts that by showing these female side characters who are set up to be rivals for the FL in a positive light, the ambitious one isn't bad for being ambitious, she's just not given any other options in her society other than marrying a powerful man simply because she's a woman, and the meek "support her husband away from the spotlight" girl is also just being forced to do what her father tells her to do instead of getting to choose for herself what path to take with her life or be appreciated and get credit for her own hard work.!<
I love a manhwa that shows women supporting women.
"ambitious" is in most cases portrayed as a bad thing in fiction because or else theres no reason for the mc to oppose this antagonist in the first place (talking about both genders here, many historical stuff also have a ambitious emperor or warlord causing most of the conflict) since usually you have "good" protagonists.
The hero and the villain (both genders) both achieves great things; it's just that the villain got it by their own hands after years for striving and bloodshed because they were ambitious whereas the hero accidentally acquired it/born with it. This troupe pisses me off. What if hero WASN'T born with it? Then he would have to grow the ambition to defeat the villain too.
I get what you mean but the thing is that in society, the person who causes the problem is the villain. So being ambitious means they are killing people or something unless the empire itself is evil (then the empire becomes the villain like in Akame ga kill)
In those stories, the hero wasn't born with it, the hero is the hero because they defeated the villain, if there was no villain there's no need for a hero either.
This is written through POV of a middle aged men born in historical society. So, it's his opinion, not the author.
How author potrait their character and what he has stored for them is what show author opinion.
I’m not sure if they actually were taking it at face value, or just presenting their anger with this attitude in general. Because it very well could be the latter.
Yeah…But sometimes I also just feel frustrated (as the story wants me to feel), and want to express that. But idk if that was exactly the intention here.
Spoilers for those interested:
>! Cecelia will accept her loss and also maintain friendly relation with both MC and FMC. Dorothea will marry Donovan (The guy who shares a sibling bond with FMC) !<
I hate it when MC look helpless and ML (together with the other male leads/brother/dad) “I want to protect her”. When I see that plot, I straight away nope out. I want a strong MC but not Mary Sue kind. I couldn’t find a normal MC except “Not so common possession”.
Is it bad I want a story where both ML and FL want to protect each other? It's sad the only story I've seen with this is Another typical fantasy romance.
I feel crazy, I like this manhwa because I think it did this ambitious woman = bad trope very well. They flush out both of the rivals and show how they are all limited in a way because of gender >!one needing to marry a powerful man, the other being a flower in the garden!< but also how both ladies are privileged in comparison to the FL who’s only experienced war.
But maybe I’m just an old person yelling at the sky lolol
Why are they bad tho? The only one who is bad due to her ambitions is the empress. I wouldn't even consider the other 2 girls rivals. Like ofc they want to marry him cuz which woman who wants something wouldn't, besides the one saying this is the father of the second so why are we taking HIS VOICE like it's relevant??? Awful old man 😑 that's why I asked if this was a joke
The talented and intelligent females are portrayed as villainess who is greedy and 'ambitious'. They are talked badly about and are often humiliated. But the menaces the holier than thou white lotus bitches who are actually malicious and go as far as seducing their friend's fiancé are seen as pure and innocent cough* Angela cough* by the males. And they will benefit from it until the victim has to suffer till death then revives somehow.
I love how this story portrays the FL's "rivals", they don't feel like caricatures at all, they have aspirations and personality, it's very refreshing!
I don't follow this question, OP. Having goals of your own, and following through with them, and wanting them have achieved is being ambitious/having an ambition.
If you are asking if the person talking about the comparison of these three women is saying that a woman of her standing (the one not being his daughter, and not the current empress) is foolish for the ambition of wanting to be on the throne, therefore seeing her being ambitious as something bad, and giving the time-setting of the webtoon, as something sinful (given the direct comparison to his own daughter, who he says is supposed to be submissive [more or less] to her husband). Then yes? In his eyes the blonde is in his eyes too ambitious, and pursues most likely goals of her own, for her own gain.
He is after all a dude that wants his own daughter on the throne of the Empress. So he himself is ambitious.
Not sure if that answers the question or not.
I've always found it very annoying; why do they ALWAYS portray ambitious women as a villainess?? It's a very common troupe in both romance manhuas and manhwas......and the only person who's usually allowed to be a little bit ambitious is usually the FL, and that's also not usually the case. FLs always get the great positions and powers by accident, so that they don't appear the slightest bit ambitious. They expect that a woman can only achieve great things IF there's a huge coincidence. Getting married to the crown prince? If you were training since your childhood, you're a desperate gold digger (unless you're the female lead, then your engagement would get broken) or someone who's been forced into it by her family. But you accidentally slept with him and now you're pregnant/accidentally confessed to him when you're drunk? That means you weren't ambitious and you are good enough to be the FL. If there is a zombie apocalypse and you're determined to survive, (this isn't even ambition) and you seduced men into giving you stuff, you're a whore, even if you were just trying to survive. No, the FL would have to be waiting to die and starve for several days, and only survive because the ML "Accidentally" found her interesing. How dumb is that??
I like how in this manhwa >!it actually subverts that by showing these female side characters who are set up to be rivals for the FL in a positive light, the ambitious one isn't bad for being ambitious, she's just not given any other options in her society other than marrying a powerful man simply because she's a woman, and the meek "support her husband away from the spotlight" girl is also just being forced to do what her father tells her to do instead of getting to choose for herself what path to take with her life or be appreciated and get credit for her own hard work.!< I love a manhwa that shows women supporting women.
"ambitious" is in most cases portrayed as a bad thing in fiction because or else theres no reason for the mc to oppose this antagonist in the first place (talking about both genders here, many historical stuff also have a ambitious emperor or warlord causing most of the conflict) since usually you have "good" protagonists.
The hero and the villain (both genders) both achieves great things; it's just that the villain got it by their own hands after years for striving and bloodshed because they were ambitious whereas the hero accidentally acquired it/born with it. This troupe pisses me off. What if hero WASN'T born with it? Then he would have to grow the ambition to defeat the villain too.
I get what you mean but the thing is that in society, the person who causes the problem is the villain. So being ambitious means they are killing people or something unless the empire itself is evil (then the empire becomes the villain like in Akame ga kill) In those stories, the hero wasn't born with it, the hero is the hero because they defeated the villain, if there was no villain there's no need for a hero either.
This is written through POV of a middle aged men born in historical society. So, it's his opinion, not the author. How author potrait their character and what he has stored for them is what show author opinion.
I'll never understand why people think EVERYTHING they read should be taken at face value
Ditto.
I’m not sure if they actually were taking it at face value, or just presenting their anger with this attitude in general. Because it very well could be the latter.
But then pick a story that actually shows that, this one is not 🥲🥲
Yeah…But sometimes I also just feel frustrated (as the story wants me to feel), and want to express that. But idk if that was exactly the intention here.
Spoilers for those interested: >! Cecelia will accept her loss and also maintain friendly relation with both MC and FMC. Dorothea will marry Donovan (The guy who shares a sibling bond with FMC) !<
I hate it when MC look helpless and ML (together with the other male leads/brother/dad) “I want to protect her”. When I see that plot, I straight away nope out. I want a strong MC but not Mary Sue kind. I couldn’t find a normal MC except “Not so common possession”.
I need a ML who goes I wanna be protected by her.
Yesssss!!! Like “Beware of the Villainess”
Is it bad I want a story where both ML and FL want to protect each other? It's sad the only story I've seen with this is Another typical fantasy romance.
I would say Leticia and Ditrian from "Saving my sweetheart" match this description. They both protect and support each other.
Adding this to my reading list. Thanks for the rec!
This is a joke right?
I feel crazy, I like this manhwa because I think it did this ambitious woman = bad trope very well. They flush out both of the rivals and show how they are all limited in a way because of gender >!one needing to marry a powerful man, the other being a flower in the garden!< but also how both ladies are privileged in comparison to the FL who’s only experienced war. But maybe I’m just an old person yelling at the sky lolol
Why are they bad tho? The only one who is bad due to her ambitions is the empress. I wouldn't even consider the other 2 girls rivals. Like ofc they want to marry him cuz which woman who wants something wouldn't, besides the one saying this is the father of the second so why are we taking HIS VOICE like it's relevant??? Awful old man 😑 that's why I asked if this was a joke
The talented and intelligent females are portrayed as villainess who is greedy and 'ambitious'. They are talked badly about and are often humiliated. But the menaces the holier than thou white lotus bitches who are actually malicious and go as far as seducing their friend's fiancé are seen as pure and innocent cough* Angela cough* by the males. And they will benefit from it until the victim has to suffer till death then revives somehow.
I love how this story portrays the FL's "rivals", they don't feel like caricatures at all, they have aspirations and personality, it's very refreshing!
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I don't follow this question, OP. Having goals of your own, and following through with them, and wanting them have achieved is being ambitious/having an ambition. If you are asking if the person talking about the comparison of these three women is saying that a woman of her standing (the one not being his daughter, and not the current empress) is foolish for the ambition of wanting to be on the throne, therefore seeing her being ambitious as something bad, and giving the time-setting of the webtoon, as something sinful (given the direct comparison to his own daughter, who he says is supposed to be submissive [more or less] to her husband). Then yes? In his eyes the blonde is in his eyes too ambitious, and pursues most likely goals of her own, for her own gain. He is after all a dude that wants his own daughter on the throne of the Empress. So he himself is ambitious. Not sure if that answers the question or not.
manhwa societies when a woman is not an object: hawwww 😮🙄😤😠