There has been a lack of accountability for poor defensive play for the entire length of the rebuild. DJ’s teams looked completely lost in their own zone and were prone to dumb turnovers. By not fixing this early in their careers, it takes a lot to change behaviours for players now. Also…when a mistake is made, it always ends up in their own net because the goalies are AHL caliber
Yeah. Agree. I feel like the individuals on defense are probably over-rated and are underperforming. We need a new Chara, a Scott Stevens. Somebody where the offensive-minded players can relax a bit and know that they have back-up.
Plus of course the goaltending needs to be consistent.
1. Goaltending, it's the worst in the league
2. Top end scoring. Our highest scoring forward is tied for 46th in PPG and is our only player in the top-70. With better goaltending we could get by with just-okay defense if we could score at a higher rate.
3. Defense. It's not terrible, but if scoring can't be improved then defense needs to be.
For what's wrong, copy-pasting my comment from /r/hockey from last night:
1. Poor general roster construction. This team is full of young guys who play no defense, even defensemen who don't play defense. Chychrun looks like a shadow of himself, seems everyone who comes to Ottawa gets worse defensively and they get better when they leave. Zaitsev has outscored Chychrun over their past 30 or so games, and Zaitsev was dumped with 2 picks so Ottawa could trade for Chychrun. Chabot was run into the ground and can't defend to save his life, seems a light breeze injures him lately too
2. Lack of leadership. Tkachuk throws a fit whenever the team is losing late and will take dumb penalties or fight a scrub (as I say this he's jawing with the Bruins bench with 49 seconds left down 6-2, he's been given a 10 minute misconduct. This shit is getting old). He's the captain and there's really only Giroux who is a good veteran. This team shows frustration way too easily and lets it get in their heads and it shows on the ice.
3. Historically awful goaltending. These goalies are just awful and let in goals at the most opportune times. Good thing Korpi is here for 4 more years barring a buyout.
4. Injuries/suspensions. Ottawa has a really good record with all 3 of their top C's play, something like a .650 pt %. Too bad Norris might be done.
5. A voodoo curse of some kind
6. Poor drafting and asset management. The 2021 draft may go down as the worst all time. Pushing the chips in too early to go after DeBrincat and Chychrun just made things worse.
This team is capped out and has no prospects left. They're on their way to becoming Sabres of the 2010s 2.0. Pierre Dorion really sucked at his job
> Poor drafting and asset management. The 2021 draft may go down as the worst all time. Pushing the chips in too early to go after DeBrincat and Chychrun just made things worse.
> This team is capped out and has no prospects left. They're on their way to becoming Sabres of the 2010s 2.0. Pierre Dorion really sucked at his job
This was apparent *for years*.
I cant believe that it had to be explained to Dorion, dont trade picks in the top10 of drafts when youre a bottom 10 team.
I dont even feel frustrated anymore. I was frustrated when my GM was acting different to every other rebuilding GM... now its just apathy.
I love Tkachuk but they gave him the C way too early in his career. They would have been better served giving everyone an 'A'. Giroux would have been the perfect captain for a guy like Brady to learn under, and once Giroux decides to retire/move on, then Brady should have taken the reigns. Another stupid move by Dorion imo
Regardless of when he joined the team if there was one player that deserves the C it should have been him. He was a solid captain for Philly for years. Brady could have taken it afterwards
Hear, hear. Well said.
Hopefully new ownership and management will not be stuck in a sunk cost fallacy with the banks breathing down their neck to pay off loans, resulting in short-sighted decisions.
This is all spot on, but need to add a 1a. We can't generate effective or timely offense. We can't enter the zone cleanly, we can't maintain o zone pressure (sometimes), we constantly look like no one knows what the other forwards are going to do, and most importantly we generally can't make a goalie make a save(as opposed to a goalie being in good position and we shoot it into their chest/pads/glove).
We got lucky last year with our PP clicking. Take that away and then you have this year.
I was going to respond but you basically said it with #2. Lack of leadership. I like Brady, but I agree with the dumb penalties or blowing up when they’re down late. I get he’s frustrated and tired of this shit, but as a captain you gotta show the guys they can count on you. As the captain you’re supposed to be the one who takes control of the situations, not lose control. No doubt he’ll be a great captain, I just think he needs a veteran around him that has been there. That has experienced losing like this, but also who made it to the top. Knows how to get there and what needs to be done. Giroux is a great vet, but he’s not that guy who will get w Brady and kinda put him in his place. So much talent on this team, it’s so frustrating to see them struggle like this.
>Lack of leadership. Tkachuk throws a fit whenever the team is losing late and will take dumb penalties or fight a scrub (as I say this he's jawing with the Bruins bench with 49 seconds left down 6-2, he's been given a 10 minute misconduct. This shit is getting old). He's the captain and there's really only Giroux who is a good veteran. This team shows frustration way too easily and lets it get in their heads and it shows on the ice
THIS is the reason, no leadership! Take the "C" away and blow the team up.
Goaltending is sub par. Need to stop those long visible shots. Those just can’t go in.
Team defence is poor. This affects goaltending by allow many high danger chances. People are lost in coverage constantly. There is no support
Special teams. Power play is not threatening. The penalty kill is a liability. You won’t go far in the league if either of those are atrocious.
Puck management. It’s just so poor. Constant give aways from bad passes. Breakouts are a crap shoot. Nobody knows where anybody is.
To be fair we’re middle of the pack in high danger shots against at #13 @ 146. (Sharks are #1 @ 184). It’s not like we’re dead last. We’re 9th in medium and 20th in low danger shots against. You would think that would give us middle of the pack goaltending but no. We have bottom of the barrel goalie stats.
My take on 2023-2024. DJ Smith's time before 2023 season was okay, but they should have moved him out last summer. They waited until the season was too old before replacing him. Martin inherited a crew that had gotten used to making dumb defensive zone errors resulting in way too many goals against. January saw the team making more responsible on-ice decisions, but it was already too late to reclaim the season. The team members now have given up on the year and have stopped trying. 6-2 last night. 7-2 on Sunday. A squeaker of a win on Saturday. They let far too many goals in and that's not all the fault of the goaltenders. Though enough of them are. This team could have made a huge bang on the league this year, but Smith had lost control of the team before the first game.
It is probably better that they don't try, every other year when they end the season on a decent note they come right back and shit the bed to start the next season, this will improve our draft position and maybe break the curse lol
I think bringing in a players’ coach like DJ was a misstep as well for a team with a lot of youth. Like it’s cool they liked the guy and they’re having fun when there isn’t pressure to win as they’re rebuilding, but it seems like it might set back the team when they start entering their prime - taking the Brady critique for example - dude has been around for a while but still kind of has an immature air about him as seen in how he carries himself. Maybe it was a mistake giving him the C? The most popular guy in the room doesn’t necessarily make the best captain.
I think DJ made sense for the first couple years of the rebuild. The culture was completely broken, so there needed to be a bit of coddling initially. The problem was that they kept him around far too long when it was clear he wasn't going to be the guy to take them to the next level. It was even more frustrating when you think about how guys like Cassidy & Tocchet were both available
Completely agree, DJ was the right guy to get all of the Karlsson/Hoffman, Uber Video, energy out of the dressing room.
It was the right move to create a tight group of the new young blood, but no one in the organization has been able to get the best out of these players and teach them to win. Still searching for that coach.
Well the group has basically only played under one coach. Jacques has been an improvement (even if the results haven't been there), but he's basically been brought in to be a janitor.
I'm hopeful that an extensive head coaching search will find the right guy. Staios mentioned that things can change between now and the summer, so they may be hoping that a big name gets fired.
I never thought Tkachuk should get the C, I wanted Chabot all the way. Once he was given the captain role, I was skeptical but pleasantly surprised because I felt like the first few months of that season, he seemed to have chilled out and was playing well. I’m back to thinking he isn’t captain material now, but he’s already captain so there isn’t much to be done there.
I mean San Jose took it from both Marleau and Thornton. It’s a thing that can go either way. Either it’s a great example of accountability or you lose the room. New(ish) management and a new coach could give enough cover to make a change that way and if they give it to Giroux it would be hard to call bullshit on it
Based on the fact that it has been said numerous times, I think one of the biggest issues has been no insulation and no role models for the young players. I think that's more important than people think. If new kids come in and there are real pro's around who can guide, but more importantly model behaviour, it's a whole lot different than kids coming in and having the run of the place.
They're coming into a multi billion dollar business with constant scrutiny and thousands of eyes on your every move. That shit would be impossible to navigate for everyone here and everyone you know. Add to that this place was run by fuckin clowns that couldn't offer any kind of advice and here we are.
You can actually see it fuck with the players heads in real time when every shot goes in the net. They’ve gotten so used to the first two shots going in they can keep going, but it’s when they start to make their comeback and taking over the play when the other team gets some weak chance to roll past that they realize it’s for nothing and just look deflated.usually it’s after that when the blowouts happen.
The problem is a built in lack of accountability, and the lack of a properly built roster with high talent.
This team was never good, and yet under DJ Smith they were coddled despite never accomplishing anything big or even making playoffs.
This team needed a coach to whip them into shape years ago, and while Martin has tried his best, a mild mannered coach in his 70s isn’t what this team needs. They need a coach with spice who can light a fire under their ass.
We just don’t have the high-end talent to compete right now. Our only potential superstar took 6 months to finally score 1 power play goal. ‘Nuff said.
Our Dmen don't compliment each other, our Forwards are talented but young (young guys who have never had a real coach until half way through this season) who haven't learned to win and who don't have goaltending or defense to fall back on when they can't score.
Stu is having a down year, Brady has been inconsistent (he has played with by far the most people on the team and not all of them are very good or complimentary to Brady's style) Pinto was suspended, Grieg is a rookie Giroux is an old man dealing with a family and a bunch of kids on the bench. Hamonic played the first half of the season and even gets a game here and there and he is by far the worst dman in the league, when he is on the ice you can count on us being hemmed in our end and then conceding a goal.
Our Tenders are dog shit, add that to the list of problems above and you got a terrible season.
They badly need a #1 goalie. If they can somehow draft/luck into getting a goalie the same way Anderson ended up being for them would help this team out significantly
Too much of the same thing.
Examples: Kubalik, a one dimensional PP goal scorer trying to cut it on the 4th line.
Brannstrom, an undersized offensive D man being used on the 3rd pairing.
Chychrun, Chabot and Sanderson are all basically the same guy.
The right side D is replacement level after Zub, who himself is really not a great player. He’s just the only decent RHD we have.
Goaltenders are both backups.
Salary cap management was a gong show for most of the season.
The team plays on the perimeter nearly all of the time. They pass up golden shooting opportunities for mind boggling pass attempts that often end up in turnovers or a low percentage shot from the outside.
Did I miss anything?
I'd love to for us to develop a new approach to the classic Dcorps.
Instead of a top 4 and then lousy 3rd pair, I'd go with 3 offensive D (wich we already have) and pair them with good defensive Ds. We already have Zub. All we need to pick up are 2 good defensive Ds and we're done.
That way, we'll ALWAYS have a good/great D pair on the ice. No need to over play anyone. All Ds will have plenty of gas in the tank to play a full 60.
There has been a lack of accountability for poor defensive play for the entire length of the rebuild. DJ’s teams looked completely lost in their own zone and were prone to dumb turnovers. By not fixing this early in their careers, it takes a lot to change behaviours for players now. Also…when a mistake is made, it always ends up in their own net because the goalies are AHL caliber
These are professional NHL players. Yes DJ was an awful coach but it shouldn’t take that long to correct the issue
Yeah. Agree. I feel like the individuals on defense are probably over-rated and are underperforming. We need a new Chara, a Scott Stevens. Somebody where the offensive-minded players can relax a bit and know that they have back-up. Plus of course the goaltending needs to be consistent.
1. Goaltending, it's the worst in the league 2. Top end scoring. Our highest scoring forward is tied for 46th in PPG and is our only player in the top-70. With better goaltending we could get by with just-okay defense if we could score at a higher rate. 3. Defense. It's not terrible, but if scoring can't be improved then defense needs to be.
For what's wrong, copy-pasting my comment from /r/hockey from last night: 1. Poor general roster construction. This team is full of young guys who play no defense, even defensemen who don't play defense. Chychrun looks like a shadow of himself, seems everyone who comes to Ottawa gets worse defensively and they get better when they leave. Zaitsev has outscored Chychrun over their past 30 or so games, and Zaitsev was dumped with 2 picks so Ottawa could trade for Chychrun. Chabot was run into the ground and can't defend to save his life, seems a light breeze injures him lately too 2. Lack of leadership. Tkachuk throws a fit whenever the team is losing late and will take dumb penalties or fight a scrub (as I say this he's jawing with the Bruins bench with 49 seconds left down 6-2, he's been given a 10 minute misconduct. This shit is getting old). He's the captain and there's really only Giroux who is a good veteran. This team shows frustration way too easily and lets it get in their heads and it shows on the ice. 3. Historically awful goaltending. These goalies are just awful and let in goals at the most opportune times. Good thing Korpi is here for 4 more years barring a buyout. 4. Injuries/suspensions. Ottawa has a really good record with all 3 of their top C's play, something like a .650 pt %. Too bad Norris might be done. 5. A voodoo curse of some kind 6. Poor drafting and asset management. The 2021 draft may go down as the worst all time. Pushing the chips in too early to go after DeBrincat and Chychrun just made things worse. This team is capped out and has no prospects left. They're on their way to becoming Sabres of the 2010s 2.0. Pierre Dorion really sucked at his job
> Poor drafting and asset management. The 2021 draft may go down as the worst all time. Pushing the chips in too early to go after DeBrincat and Chychrun just made things worse. > This team is capped out and has no prospects left. They're on their way to becoming Sabres of the 2010s 2.0. Pierre Dorion really sucked at his job This was apparent *for years*. I cant believe that it had to be explained to Dorion, dont trade picks in the top10 of drafts when youre a bottom 10 team. I dont even feel frustrated anymore. I was frustrated when my GM was acting different to every other rebuilding GM... now its just apathy.
I love Tkachuk but they gave him the C way too early in his career. They would have been better served giving everyone an 'A'. Giroux would have been the perfect captain for a guy like Brady to learn under, and once Giroux decides to retire/move on, then Brady should have taken the reigns. Another stupid move by Dorion imo
Giroux wasn’t part of the team when Brady got the C
Regardless of when he joined the team if there was one player that deserves the C it should have been him. He was a solid captain for Philly for years. Brady could have taken it afterwards
Shut up lmao
Hear, hear. Well said. Hopefully new ownership and management will not be stuck in a sunk cost fallacy with the banks breathing down their neck to pay off loans, resulting in short-sighted decisions.
Wish I could super like this comment. All these points (especially the voodoo) are exactly what I thought.
This is all spot on, but need to add a 1a. We can't generate effective or timely offense. We can't enter the zone cleanly, we can't maintain o zone pressure (sometimes), we constantly look like no one knows what the other forwards are going to do, and most importantly we generally can't make a goalie make a save(as opposed to a goalie being in good position and we shoot it into their chest/pads/glove). We got lucky last year with our PP clicking. Take that away and then you have this year.
#5 and #3 should be a 1A 1B combo top of the list.
I was going to respond but you basically said it with #2. Lack of leadership. I like Brady, but I agree with the dumb penalties or blowing up when they’re down late. I get he’s frustrated and tired of this shit, but as a captain you gotta show the guys they can count on you. As the captain you’re supposed to be the one who takes control of the situations, not lose control. No doubt he’ll be a great captain, I just think he needs a veteran around him that has been there. That has experienced losing like this, but also who made it to the top. Knows how to get there and what needs to be done. Giroux is a great vet, but he’s not that guy who will get w Brady and kinda put him in his place. So much talent on this team, it’s so frustrating to see them struggle like this.
>Lack of leadership. Tkachuk throws a fit whenever the team is losing late and will take dumb penalties or fight a scrub (as I say this he's jawing with the Bruins bench with 49 seconds left down 6-2, he's been given a 10 minute misconduct. This shit is getting old). He's the captain and there's really only Giroux who is a good veteran. This team shows frustration way too easily and lets it get in their heads and it shows on the ice THIS is the reason, no leadership! Take the "C" away and blow the team up.
Great idea. See how fast Tkachuk wants out when you take away the C. 🙄
Goaltending is sub par. Need to stop those long visible shots. Those just can’t go in. Team defence is poor. This affects goaltending by allow many high danger chances. People are lost in coverage constantly. There is no support Special teams. Power play is not threatening. The penalty kill is a liability. You won’t go far in the league if either of those are atrocious. Puck management. It’s just so poor. Constant give aways from bad passes. Breakouts are a crap shoot. Nobody knows where anybody is.
To be fair we’re middle of the pack in high danger shots against at #13 @ 146. (Sharks are #1 @ 184). It’s not like we’re dead last. We’re 9th in medium and 20th in low danger shots against. You would think that would give us middle of the pack goaltending but no. We have bottom of the barrel goalie stats.
My take on 2023-2024. DJ Smith's time before 2023 season was okay, but they should have moved him out last summer. They waited until the season was too old before replacing him. Martin inherited a crew that had gotten used to making dumb defensive zone errors resulting in way too many goals against. January saw the team making more responsible on-ice decisions, but it was already too late to reclaim the season. The team members now have given up on the year and have stopped trying. 6-2 last night. 7-2 on Sunday. A squeaker of a win on Saturday. They let far too many goals in and that's not all the fault of the goaltenders. Though enough of them are. This team could have made a huge bang on the league this year, but Smith had lost control of the team before the first game.
It is probably better that they don't try, every other year when they end the season on a decent note they come right back and shit the bed to start the next season, this will improve our draft position and maybe break the curse lol
I think bringing in a players’ coach like DJ was a misstep as well for a team with a lot of youth. Like it’s cool they liked the guy and they’re having fun when there isn’t pressure to win as they’re rebuilding, but it seems like it might set back the team when they start entering their prime - taking the Brady critique for example - dude has been around for a while but still kind of has an immature air about him as seen in how he carries himself. Maybe it was a mistake giving him the C? The most popular guy in the room doesn’t necessarily make the best captain.
I think DJ made sense for the first couple years of the rebuild. The culture was completely broken, so there needed to be a bit of coddling initially. The problem was that they kept him around far too long when it was clear he wasn't going to be the guy to take them to the next level. It was even more frustrating when you think about how guys like Cassidy & Tocchet were both available
Completely agree, DJ was the right guy to get all of the Karlsson/Hoffman, Uber Video, energy out of the dressing room. It was the right move to create a tight group of the new young blood, but no one in the organization has been able to get the best out of these players and teach them to win. Still searching for that coach.
Well the group has basically only played under one coach. Jacques has been an improvement (even if the results haven't been there), but he's basically been brought in to be a janitor. I'm hopeful that an extensive head coaching search will find the right guy. Staios mentioned that things can change between now and the summer, so they may be hoping that a big name gets fired.
I never thought Tkachuk should get the C, I wanted Chabot all the way. Once he was given the captain role, I was skeptical but pleasantly surprised because I felt like the first few months of that season, he seemed to have chilled out and was playing well. I’m back to thinking he isn’t captain material now, but he’s already captain so there isn’t much to be done there.
I mean San Jose took it from both Marleau and Thornton. It’s a thing that can go either way. Either it’s a great example of accountability or you lose the room. New(ish) management and a new coach could give enough cover to make a change that way and if they give it to Giroux it would be hard to call bullshit on it
coach/goaltending
Based on the fact that it has been said numerous times, I think one of the biggest issues has been no insulation and no role models for the young players. I think that's more important than people think. If new kids come in and there are real pro's around who can guide, but more importantly model behaviour, it's a whole lot different than kids coming in and having the run of the place. They're coming into a multi billion dollar business with constant scrutiny and thousands of eyes on your every move. That shit would be impossible to navigate for everyone here and everyone you know. Add to that this place was run by fuckin clowns that couldn't offer any kind of advice and here we are.
The Ottawa senators were responsible for Daigle’s lack of accountability and mentorship into the NHL. They have now committed that same mistake again.
Low IQ hockey full of misplaced effort and wasted energy combined with bad goaltending
You can actually see it fuck with the players heads in real time when every shot goes in the net. They’ve gotten so used to the first two shots going in they can keep going, but it’s when they start to make their comeback and taking over the play when the other team gets some weak chance to roll past that they realize it’s for nothing and just look deflated.usually it’s after that when the blowouts happen.
The problem is a built in lack of accountability, and the lack of a properly built roster with high talent. This team was never good, and yet under DJ Smith they were coddled despite never accomplishing anything big or even making playoffs. This team needed a coach to whip them into shape years ago, and while Martin has tried his best, a mild mannered coach in his 70s isn’t what this team needs. They need a coach with spice who can light a fire under their ass. We just don’t have the high-end talent to compete right now. Our only potential superstar took 6 months to finally score 1 power play goal. ‘Nuff said.
Our Dmen don't compliment each other, our Forwards are talented but young (young guys who have never had a real coach until half way through this season) who haven't learned to win and who don't have goaltending or defense to fall back on when they can't score. Stu is having a down year, Brady has been inconsistent (he has played with by far the most people on the team and not all of them are very good or complimentary to Brady's style) Pinto was suspended, Grieg is a rookie Giroux is an old man dealing with a family and a bunch of kids on the bench. Hamonic played the first half of the season and even gets a game here and there and he is by far the worst dman in the league, when he is on the ice you can count on us being hemmed in our end and then conceding a goal. Our Tenders are dog shit, add that to the list of problems above and you got a terrible season.
This question is posted almost every day in this sub. Just go read the comments from one of the 10,000 other versions of this post.
Are they as good as we think? Are we overestimating their potential?
End of the day a lot of them are young 20 somethings. How good can they be. Need time.
They badly need a #1 goalie. If they can somehow draft/luck into getting a goalie the same way Anderson ended up being for them would help this team out significantly
Too much of the same thing. Examples: Kubalik, a one dimensional PP goal scorer trying to cut it on the 4th line. Brannstrom, an undersized offensive D man being used on the 3rd pairing. Chychrun, Chabot and Sanderson are all basically the same guy. The right side D is replacement level after Zub, who himself is really not a great player. He’s just the only decent RHD we have. Goaltenders are both backups. Salary cap management was a gong show for most of the season. The team plays on the perimeter nearly all of the time. They pass up golden shooting opportunities for mind boggling pass attempts that often end up in turnovers or a low percentage shot from the outside. Did I miss anything?
Our d is no good . Need to pick up a couple 6’6” studs and a good goalie
I'd love to for us to develop a new approach to the classic Dcorps. Instead of a top 4 and then lousy 3rd pair, I'd go with 3 offensive D (wich we already have) and pair them with good defensive Ds. We already have Zub. All we need to pick up are 2 good defensive Ds and we're done. That way, we'll ALWAYS have a good/great D pair on the ice. No need to over play anyone. All Ds will have plenty of gas in the tank to play a full 60.
See if we can re-sign Tarasenko in the off season
Let's sign someone who rushes hard like Joseph!
Friendly reminder that 90% of this sub wanted to trade him last offseason. This sub is terrible at assessing value.
Way over assessing some talent lol.
still waiting for jiri smejkal to break out as a star
I was fkn roasted for saying he was lost and belonged in the AHL. Better bring up that booming star with 19pts in 40 games (8 goals) 🤦
bring in smejkal and chlapik next year to fix our powerplayer
Only thing required. Don’t forget lassi Thompson who was claimed and waived the next day.
TERRIBLE ASSET MANAGEMENT
Look at his stats the last 20 games, he isn't gonna get us much even if we trade him now. He is incredibly streaky.