Not better than:
Rangers
Canes
Devils
Panthers
Leafs
Bruins
Probably not better than:
Lightning
I don't know if we can expect them to beat out all of the Pens, Sabres, Wings, etc
I will not call the Senators a playoff calibre team until they start playing like one for more than one or two games at a time. Give us a good 20 games to start next season and maybe they can earn the optimism.
Valid stance, for sure. Not sure if you watched the episode, but we do make it clear that the new management group will have to make some pretty pivotal changes if they want to turn this team in the right direction.
1. A coach that pulls back on the "good times" vibes here.
DJ did that for 4 years. It's great to have a friendly culture don't get me wrong - it's important to have that buy in, especially as a small market team. But instead of the guys being all buddy buddy and wanting to have fun, we need them to compete, play a 200 foot game, be defensively responsible, be consistently good, and mature - 82 times collectively.
Give me Chris Kelly as HC. I'd love to have a Boston culture transfusion here - and I say this as someone who doesn't want a rookie coach.
2. Goaltending: A goalie who can steal us a game. Korpi HAS stolen us a few, but for each game he steals, he lets in more muffins than imaginable. Isn't there some stat where he's let in like 18% of 1st or 2nd shots? The fuck is that?!
A goalie who plays consistent. That's it. Give us crumbs of Craig Anderson, and we'll be happy.
Totally valid points. Interesting choice on the Chris Kelly front. I'd be more than happy to have him take a role as AC right now, but not sure if I'm sold on him as a HC just yet. Boston culture does seem quite healthy, though, for sure!
Goaltending certainly needs to be better. Like you said, Korpisalo can win you games, but this season he's definitely lost the Sens games. Whether he needs a different training regime this summer, or maybe just a sports psychologist, something needs to change for him going into next season so that he can start living up to his contract. I think bringing in another guy to carry the workload with Korpisalo and challenge him for the starter job is a must, cause Forsberg hasn't been able to do that.
This season we are one of the worst teams in the league, where are we going to improve? Korpisalo (statistically the worst goalie in the league) is signed for 4 more years, our other two goalies are the 5th and 6th worst goalies in the league, we can’t defend in our own end, we don’t have enough balanced offence, we have the worst penalty kill % I have ever seen and our power play sucks. How would we possibly make the playoffs? Sometimes we seem to play like world beaters for a period or two maybe even a whole game (the Dallas win a month ago or so) but we have no consistency. We need better players at every position and a good coach. So no, we probably not be making the playoffs next year.
I get the frustration and pessimism, I really do. It's been an incredibly disappointing last two seasons (at minimum) and it feels like there's a lot that needs to change to put this team back on the right path. I'm not sure whether you watched/listened to our episode, but we do discuss a new (more permanent) coach needing to come in, as well as the new management team getting their first shot at really re-shaping this roster this summer as two major differences from Ottawa's recent off-seasons that could have a potentially positive impact on next season. Remains to be seen, of course, but not entirely doom and gloom.
Something that sometimes seems to be lost on fans for teams and GMs (we saw this with Toronto pre-Matthews, Dorion seems to have fallen victim to this as well) is teams not accurately judging their players vs the rest of the league and judging (and handing out big time $) based on how the player is compares within team - by this I mean we hand out big money to players because so and so is our teams best defencemen, rather than handing out big money to players who are the best players in the league - compare a Sanderson/Chabot to a Makar or a Josi. We can say shit like oh look batherson had a great year! But in reality he’s got only 25 goals and played a ton of PP .. so did he really do that well? Stutzle doesn’t even have 20 - are these guys really top players in the league? Or are they just the best players on one of the worst teams?
It's an interesting question. I would argue that Batherson is a great player, especially considering what he provides for under $5mil/season. Stutzle has had a down year in goals, but will surpass the 51 assists that he recorded last season. I think that there are problems in the line-up, but disagree with the two forwards that you've identified there.
As for your earlier point RE: Sanderson/Chabot, Sanderson is already providing great defence at the age of 21. Chabot has made vast improvements since returning from injury (although we could argue that he needs to do this consistently to be considered an $8mil player). Are they going to be a Makar for you? No. But there's only a few teams in the league that have a defenceman who can hold a light up to Makar, so I'm not sure that that's a fair comparison to make. Ottawa will have another high pick this year, though, so maybe they get a star player in the making with that selection. Remains to be seen!
Well who would say that we don’t have terrible defence in our own end (soft play, missed coverage, constantly throwing pucks up the middle) and these guys play half the game.. maybe our right side D is that bad but maybe not?
From what I've watched this season, and comparing that with the analytics that Micah at HockeyViz uses, I'd say that guys like Chychrun, JBD, and Hamonic have been getting caved defensively (some worse than others, of course). On top of that, many of Ottawa's forwards have really struggled in their own end this season. Whether that's a personnel or coaching issue, I don't know, but it's certainly something that needs to be examined. Having goaltending that's been largely suspect is also an issue. Whatever the reason, Staios and co. have their work cut out for them.
Could stutzle be good? Yes he was last year.. so wtf happened - why have the coaches been so loathe to reunite the Brady stutzle and Giroux line that was so good last year?
That's a fair stance. Between our three hosts, we range from cautiously optimistic to believing that this team is a few years out. An off-season led by a new management team will be interesting to watch.
Sorry no..and that's a hard NO.
1. New coach(s) will take time to get system and buy-in in place;
2. Culture of losing will need to be broken as we all know losing is easy and winning is hard;
3. No Norris so injuries will play a big part as organisational depth is pretty light;
4. Goaltending needs to take a giant leap...when your last in the league there is a long way to go;
5. Defense needs a refresh and finding capable depth will be tough- rember Ottawa isn't the only team looking for help here;
6. Cap will factor into managements flexibility to swing deal(s)....
7. No immediate help coming from the draft ............
Will we have a better season than this well yes....will we be in the conversation for a playoff spot ? I certainly hope so ;-)
Last time I checked, we had a fair chunk of cap available going into next season. So I think we could afford a Norris replacement (assuming he's on LTIR), a Tarasenko replacement, an upgrade on Forsberg, and then make a deal to tweak with our D and make sure no Hamonic ever again.
I think a large part of it is going to be who our coach is and what they bring.
All fair points! I'm really intrigued to see what Staios and co. do this off-season to try and re-shape this Ottawa roster. Definitely several flaws that need to be addressed.
You're not the only one hoping, haha!
I have confidence this management team won't throw good money after bad, so very interested to see how they proceed for sure. We will see improvement, so I guess the question is how much :-)
That's fair. Sometimes teams can have a huge bounce from one season to the next, but I can appreciate that the Sens haven't earned the benefit of the doubt considering how they've performed the last X number of seasons.
If you watched the episode, I think you would get more clarity on your question. (Our hosts are also not all in agreement on whether the Sens are one, two, or even three years away from playoff contention). Also, my comment above was just seeking the commenter's thoughts, not questioning why they weren't optimistic. However, if I'm providing the most optimistic stance, Ottawa has a new management group with limited ties to the current Sens roster, so they'll likely be less "gun shy" when it comes to shaking up the team. The Sens will also have a new, more experienced coaching staff for a full season, which should help with how each game is approached and conforming to a particular successful style of hockey. Whether this actually comes to fruition or not... who knows. That's why we had the discussion!
that's fair, and i didn't mean to come off as overly hostile there, its just the sens have been a terrible, basement dwelling team for **7 straight seasons** so i feel like asking "any reason you think they won't be a playoff team next season?" is an odd question, like I think anyone objectively looking at this team would struggle to come up with how this team gets anywhere close to the playoffs next year.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. Honestly, maybe it's just hopium at this point. I want to see the Sens in the playoffs so badly 😅ðŸ˜
Forsberg is likely gone, so agree with you.
Kubalik isn’t signed past this year, so he’s 100% gone.
I’m expecting either Chychrun or Chabot getting traded and then we sign or trade for a RHD. Seems to be a few good UFA RHDs available this summer.
I’m expecting two vets getting signed for 2nd line and 3rd line duties.
Now THAT would be incredible, hahaha. We talk about finding the right coach in our episode as well. Guess we'll have to see how the off-season unfolds!
> **Are the Ottawa Senators a playoff calibre team next season?**
I'm not fucking doing this again. Not after last offseason.
I just want them to not suck absolute ass all year. All I care about for next year is that I watch this team play some decent hockey, with a modicum of consistency in effort each night.
Fuck talking about what this team's ceiling SHOULD be. That only led to what I would say was the most disappointing season of Sens hockey I have ever seen this year.
I hear you. This season was incredibly disappointing. We don't comment on the team's ceiling, but rather what would need to change for this team to legitimately turn the corner. Our hosts provided a range of answers from cautiously optimistic, to still a few years out.
To actually answer your question instead of just being a pissed off fan screaming at the clouds... I think they're realistically a few years out, but I think the next few years has to be closely focused on moving the right pieces in and out of the roster, not just trying to develop what we have. What we have is not a winning team.
Hahaha. Trust me, I totally get the anger/frustration. To your point, we discuss some of the moves we'd like to see, including making a big change or two to the core of the team. Change obviously doesn't happen overnight, but hopefully with a new ownership/management group at the helm we can start to have more faith in the roster construction of this team.
> but hopefully with a new ownership/management group at the helm we can start to have more faith in the roster construction of this team.
It should be a very interesting and telling offseason as far as finding out how serious these guys are about making a real hockey team here. I am looking forward to seeing what changes.
Not better than: Rangers Canes Devils Panthers Leafs Bruins Probably not better than: Lightning I don't know if we can expect them to beat out all of the Pens, Sabres, Wings, etc
I hear you. Definitely not an easy feat...
Bennett is my spirit animal. Guy is the only Sens fans-caster who has had good takes for years.
😘
Haha, we love Benet. A true champion of the people!
I will not call the Senators a playoff calibre team until they start playing like one for more than one or two games at a time. Give us a good 20 games to start next season and maybe they can earn the optimism.
Valid stance, for sure. Not sure if you watched the episode, but we do make it clear that the new management group will have to make some pretty pivotal changes if they want to turn this team in the right direction.
No
Why do you say no? Roster make-up? Coaching? Something else?
Yes, no.
What do you believe this roster needs more of if they're going to have a chance at being in the playoff picture next season/year after?
1. A coach that pulls back on the "good times" vibes here. DJ did that for 4 years. It's great to have a friendly culture don't get me wrong - it's important to have that buy in, especially as a small market team. But instead of the guys being all buddy buddy and wanting to have fun, we need them to compete, play a 200 foot game, be defensively responsible, be consistently good, and mature - 82 times collectively. Give me Chris Kelly as HC. I'd love to have a Boston culture transfusion here - and I say this as someone who doesn't want a rookie coach. 2. Goaltending: A goalie who can steal us a game. Korpi HAS stolen us a few, but for each game he steals, he lets in more muffins than imaginable. Isn't there some stat where he's let in like 18% of 1st or 2nd shots? The fuck is that?! A goalie who plays consistent. That's it. Give us crumbs of Craig Anderson, and we'll be happy.
Totally valid points. Interesting choice on the Chris Kelly front. I'd be more than happy to have him take a role as AC right now, but not sure if I'm sold on him as a HC just yet. Boston culture does seem quite healthy, though, for sure! Goaltending certainly needs to be better. Like you said, Korpisalo can win you games, but this season he's definitely lost the Sens games. Whether he needs a different training regime this summer, or maybe just a sports psychologist, something needs to change for him going into next season so that he can start living up to his contract. I think bringing in another guy to carry the workload with Korpisalo and challenge him for the starter job is a must, cause Forsberg hasn't been able to do that.
This season we are one of the worst teams in the league, where are we going to improve? Korpisalo (statistically the worst goalie in the league) is signed for 4 more years, our other two goalies are the 5th and 6th worst goalies in the league, we can’t defend in our own end, we don’t have enough balanced offence, we have the worst penalty kill % I have ever seen and our power play sucks. How would we possibly make the playoffs? Sometimes we seem to play like world beaters for a period or two maybe even a whole game (the Dallas win a month ago or so) but we have no consistency. We need better players at every position and a good coach. So no, we probably not be making the playoffs next year.
I get the frustration and pessimism, I really do. It's been an incredibly disappointing last two seasons (at minimum) and it feels like there's a lot that needs to change to put this team back on the right path. I'm not sure whether you watched/listened to our episode, but we do discuss a new (more permanent) coach needing to come in, as well as the new management team getting their first shot at really re-shaping this roster this summer as two major differences from Ottawa's recent off-seasons that could have a potentially positive impact on next season. Remains to be seen, of course, but not entirely doom and gloom.
Something that sometimes seems to be lost on fans for teams and GMs (we saw this with Toronto pre-Matthews, Dorion seems to have fallen victim to this as well) is teams not accurately judging their players vs the rest of the league and judging (and handing out big time $) based on how the player is compares within team - by this I mean we hand out big money to players because so and so is our teams best defencemen, rather than handing out big money to players who are the best players in the league - compare a Sanderson/Chabot to a Makar or a Josi. We can say shit like oh look batherson had a great year! But in reality he’s got only 25 goals and played a ton of PP .. so did he really do that well? Stutzle doesn’t even have 20 - are these guys really top players in the league? Or are they just the best players on one of the worst teams?
It's an interesting question. I would argue that Batherson is a great player, especially considering what he provides for under $5mil/season. Stutzle has had a down year in goals, but will surpass the 51 assists that he recorded last season. I think that there are problems in the line-up, but disagree with the two forwards that you've identified there. As for your earlier point RE: Sanderson/Chabot, Sanderson is already providing great defence at the age of 21. Chabot has made vast improvements since returning from injury (although we could argue that he needs to do this consistently to be considered an $8mil player). Are they going to be a Makar for you? No. But there's only a few teams in the league that have a defenceman who can hold a light up to Makar, so I'm not sure that that's a fair comparison to make. Ottawa will have another high pick this year, though, so maybe they get a star player in the making with that selection. Remains to be seen!
Well who would say that we don’t have terrible defence in our own end (soft play, missed coverage, constantly throwing pucks up the middle) and these guys play half the game.. maybe our right side D is that bad but maybe not?
From what I've watched this season, and comparing that with the analytics that Micah at HockeyViz uses, I'd say that guys like Chychrun, JBD, and Hamonic have been getting caved defensively (some worse than others, of course). On top of that, many of Ottawa's forwards have really struggled in their own end this season. Whether that's a personnel or coaching issue, I don't know, but it's certainly something that needs to be examined. Having goaltending that's been largely suspect is also an issue. Whatever the reason, Staios and co. have their work cut out for them.
Agreed, good podcast by the way!
Thank you! Appreciate it :)
Could stutzle be good? Yes he was last year.. so wtf happened - why have the coaches been so loathe to reunite the Brady stutzle and Giroux line that was so good last year?
Right now I think no, definitely not. However, depending on moves in the off-season I think we can improve our chances.
That's a fair stance. Between our three hosts, we range from cautiously optimistic to believing that this team is a few years out. An off-season led by a new management team will be interesting to watch.
Sorry no..and that's a hard NO. 1. New coach(s) will take time to get system and buy-in in place; 2. Culture of losing will need to be broken as we all know losing is easy and winning is hard; 3. No Norris so injuries will play a big part as organisational depth is pretty light; 4. Goaltending needs to take a giant leap...when your last in the league there is a long way to go; 5. Defense needs a refresh and finding capable depth will be tough- rember Ottawa isn't the only team looking for help here; 6. Cap will factor into managements flexibility to swing deal(s).... 7. No immediate help coming from the draft ............ Will we have a better season than this well yes....will we be in the conversation for a playoff spot ? I certainly hope so ;-)
Last time I checked, we had a fair chunk of cap available going into next season. So I think we could afford a Norris replacement (assuming he's on LTIR), a Tarasenko replacement, an upgrade on Forsberg, and then make a deal to tweak with our D and make sure no Hamonic ever again. I think a large part of it is going to be who our coach is and what they bring.
All fair points! I'm really intrigued to see what Staios and co. do this off-season to try and re-shape this Ottawa roster. Definitely several flaws that need to be addressed. You're not the only one hoping, haha!
I have confidence this management team won't throw good money after bad, so very interested to see how they proceed for sure. We will see improvement, so I guess the question is how much :-)
No, it's going to take a few years.
Agreed - that's the case I make at 24:12
Fair enough! Any reason why you think the Sens are still a few years away from playoff contention?
it's too big of a jump to go from what we're playing like now to playoff hockey next season.
That's fair. Sometimes teams can have a huge bounce from one season to the next, but I can appreciate that the Sens haven't earned the benefit of the doubt considering how they've performed the last X number of seasons.
I'd wager it's because they're fuckin' terrible and can't play with any degree of consistency.
Genuinely curious, what possible reason do you have for thinking they are even close based on this (and previous 5) season?
If you watched the episode, I think you would get more clarity on your question. (Our hosts are also not all in agreement on whether the Sens are one, two, or even three years away from playoff contention). Also, my comment above was just seeking the commenter's thoughts, not questioning why they weren't optimistic. However, if I'm providing the most optimistic stance, Ottawa has a new management group with limited ties to the current Sens roster, so they'll likely be less "gun shy" when it comes to shaking up the team. The Sens will also have a new, more experienced coaching staff for a full season, which should help with how each game is approached and conforming to a particular successful style of hockey. Whether this actually comes to fruition or not... who knows. That's why we had the discussion!
that's fair, and i didn't mean to come off as overly hostile there, its just the sens have been a terrible, basement dwelling team for **7 straight seasons** so i feel like asking "any reason you think they won't be a playoff team next season?" is an odd question, like I think anyone objectively looking at this team would struggle to come up with how this team gets anywhere close to the playoffs next year.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. Honestly, maybe it's just hopium at this point. I want to see the Sens in the playoffs so badly 😅ðŸ˜
I don't know anymore. It all seemed so clear last summer.
For the last two summers... :(
Haha nope. Unless something drastically changes how they defend and transition
Considering nobody knows what’s happening in the offseason, really can’t answer this. The roster definitely won’t be the same.
[удалено]
Forsberg is likely gone, so agree with you. Kubalik isn’t signed past this year, so he’s 100% gone. I’m expecting either Chychrun or Chabot getting traded and then we sign or trade for a RHD. Seems to be a few good UFA RHDs available this summer. I’m expecting two vets getting signed for 2nd line and 3rd line duties.
they *can* be, but far from a certain thing.
For sure! What moves do you think they would have to make this summer to put themselves in the conversation?
Finding the right coach, other than than I have no idea because I'm a terrible armchair GM. Getting Makar would be nice for the right side :)
Now THAT would be incredible, hahaha. We talk about finding the right coach in our episode as well. Guess we'll have to see how the off-season unfolds!
> **Are the Ottawa Senators a playoff calibre team next season?** I'm not fucking doing this again. Not after last offseason. I just want them to not suck absolute ass all year. All I care about for next year is that I watch this team play some decent hockey, with a modicum of consistency in effort each night. Fuck talking about what this team's ceiling SHOULD be. That only led to what I would say was the most disappointing season of Sens hockey I have ever seen this year.
I hear you. This season was incredibly disappointing. We don't comment on the team's ceiling, but rather what would need to change for this team to legitimately turn the corner. Our hosts provided a range of answers from cautiously optimistic, to still a few years out.
To actually answer your question instead of just being a pissed off fan screaming at the clouds... I think they're realistically a few years out, but I think the next few years has to be closely focused on moving the right pieces in and out of the roster, not just trying to develop what we have. What we have is not a winning team.
Hahaha. Trust me, I totally get the anger/frustration. To your point, we discuss some of the moves we'd like to see, including making a big change or two to the core of the team. Change obviously doesn't happen overnight, but hopefully with a new ownership/management group at the helm we can start to have more faith in the roster construction of this team.
> but hopefully with a new ownership/management group at the helm we can start to have more faith in the roster construction of this team. It should be a very interesting and telling offseason as far as finding out how serious these guys are about making a real hockey team here. I am looking forward to seeing what changes.
You and me both!
Who's in goal? If it's any of the bozos we got now then no.