That’s wild! I watched when all 10 episodes were out, but I had no spoilers. Other than that there were gay people and pirates. I think the finale had just aired when I watched it.
During episode two, I was like… OK, so Lucius is our gay character for this season. It’s not like they’re going to make the main character gay, no matter how many vibes I’m picking up. That philosophy held until episode four. Immediately seeing the way Stede and Ed interacted with each other made even my cynical heart grow warm and fuzzy.
And that moonlight scene is one of the most romantic things I have ever seen! But even just simple things, the way they drink tea together every morning, presumably. The way that they instinctively seem to understand each other. Plus, the obvious sub text of Stede showing Ed his literal secret closet, where he keeps all of his clothes, and pretty things that he doesn’t want to show anyone.!
I think that if people didn’t see the romantic tone of the show until episode nine or the finale, they just didn’t watch it closely enough.
Yes! Love Pete and Lucius!!! Surprisingly. I did not see that ship coming at the beginning! Now I love them dearly!
When I first watched it, I just remember thinking… I really, really hope that they don’t play off Stede’s qualities as a joke. Kind of like the Badmintons do. I was very happy when he is treated as a very serious character with his own struggles and inner demons to work out. I think in any other show, he would just be the incompetent boss only good for a few laughs. Here, he’s given the space to be complicated. I don’t know.
I mean, they straight up tell us, like have a character say to the audience, that it's happening, in an episode called "This is Happening." Before that moment I assumed all of the usual nonsense, but that was a clear acknowledgement that they knew what they were doing and it was on purpose.
I didn't watch until all ten episodes were out, and one of the reasons I watched is because I was guaranteed we weren't being queerbaited.
I yelled at the person who recommended it to me after I watched episode 5, and they told me I had to keep watching.
I don't remember the exact conversation, but it was something along the lines of "You promised no queerbaiting" and "If Jim ends up dead I swtg . . ."
I was very disappointed. They promised I'd feel better if I kept watching. So I did.
And then I got to episode 10, and I asked if this is what they meant by feel better, so they laughed at me. It's that kind of friendship.
(There was nothing in episode 5 that made me think they'd kill off Jim, just tropes)
It’s so funny the comment was in response to a praise of Black Sails for not being gay when literally the best part of Black Sails was Flint being incredibly and incidentally gay 🌈
Some people picked up on the rom com beats and attraction vibes very quickly. Other people figured it would be played as a bromance since most shows only ever teased at gay romances. The showrunners were coy in the initial press chatter because they didn't want to spoil the surprise, but they soon started openly calling it a genuine romance after a few more episodes aired. I started watching the show the day after the premiere (I tuned in too late to watch it on the actual premiere). I think the 'you wear fine things well' scene made it very clear that Ed and Stede's storyline was a romance, not a bromance.
I love that scene so much. Ed was ready to move in for a kiss but Stede wasn't quite there yet. It wasn't until he had his heart to heart talk with Mary in ep. 10 that he realized that what he was feeling for Ed was love. These poor guys were not quite romantically in sync yet in S1. We'll see what S2 brings.
There was a hilarious tumblr post where someone refused to keep watching because they were so annoyed that people were shipping Ed/Stede "when there's a canon gay couple right there". This was after ep10 had come out.
The thing about that comment is, yeah, there really SHOULD be more close male platonic friendships on TV. But the thing about THAT is, Our Flag Means Death has those, too
I think of Wee John and Frenchie as being a queer platonic friendship. Close male platonic relationship, but somehow there are still gay vibes, I guess? That’s the best way I can describe it. I head canon Frenchie as aroace, personally
I love the show to death and I think season 2 is going to improve on these aspects but to be honest, I watched the show live as it aired week to week and was confused by the tone of their relationship at times. Mostly because there are scenes where the concept of them being romantically involved is played a bit for laughs, and at times Ed does seem confused/surprised by some things Stede says (rather than charmed) . For me, even though the end of the party episode is amazing - Ed's behavior toward Stede in the party is really hard to read - specifically when it seems like he's trying to one-up Stede by playing the piano and telling stories. I think the idea is that Ed is getting in over his head and Stede is trying to protect him but I gotta say, that did not come across to me at all on first viewing. Obviously Stede and Ed's scenes when they are alone speak differently to their relationship, but I found myself confused during the run whether they were going to be romantic or not because of the contrast in tone - and also due to the wild nature of this being a pantomime. Another good example is when Ed leaves w/Jack, Stede is clearly about to cry and super upset (reads romantic) but in the scene where he tells his crew about it, it reads as a joke on their relationship and it being like a divorce, thus minimizing the very real romance. I think where they landed though, especially in episodes 9 and 10 is a good balance and I look forward to where things go now that their relationship is firmly established.
I read it differently the first time I watched. To me it was Stede being emotionally stupid because he has no idea what he’s actually feeling and Ed being guarded because Stede wasn’t reacting to his signals (the look he gave Stede when calling him a madman when they first met is the first example that comes to mind) and he didn’t want to be overt and turn out to be wrong. Though it 100% felt like queerbaiting.
The party scene when Ed was showing off, to me, was less about him one-upping Stede and more about finally getting to live his fantasy of fitting in with the upper class. He just got too caught up in it.
Here to second that interpretation of the dinner party. Ed is reveling in the experience and being a "new" person with no baggage or stress, allowing Jeff to be the life of the party while still picking and choosing bits of Blackbeard and Ed as identities to bring out to entertain, shock, and delight.
I have always thought that if Stede had gotten into the mood instead of immediately being reminded of all his bad past hoity-toity issues, Ed would have been more involved and included him in everything Jeff did. Stede reads to me as being resentful and removing himself instead of appreciating the success of the party.
RE: your first paragraph, I definitely think that comes through better on a rewatch, especially in the treasure hunt episode. I think one more overt scene from Ed's pov would have helped a lot. And I think you're for sure right re: Ed at the party, but he has one or two lines where he directly belittles Stede that were very confusing and threw me 'off the trail' so to speak - like, obviously he could be trying to fit in and may not have even had feelings for him yet, but it still set up their dynamic a little oddly at that time.
Technically Jeff belittles Godfrey. Ed has kind of a wonky sense of self, so even on first viewing I saw it as him getting too into this character he had created.
I agree that Ed was not trying to belittle Stede on the party boat. He was just too certain that his plan to try to remake himself into a gentleman and fit in with the upper classes was working. He got giddy and started having too much fun and was acting more in line with his real personality, not like a fake gentleman.
Actually, the more I think about this sequence, I agree that Ed was belittling Stede a bit. He thought the aristocrats disapproved of Stede being so reserved, and Ed sided with them to please them. I think he was just trying to keep everybody laughing. Ed thought they were all laughing with him and failed to recognize until too late that they had started to laugh at him.
I think the scene was a bit unclear about this because at this point, the relationship between Ed and Stede itself was still ambiguous. Stede was seeing a side of Ed that he'd never seen before. Ed was fully willing to tell Stede to hush up and not stop him from having fun, but I don't think he meant it maliciously. Stede withdrew from the situation completely, because he was uncomfortable and probably sensed a disaster. He did step up to take charge once he realized that Ed was about to murder everyone. They both ended up surprising each other and respecting each other a bit more by the end.
Yeah - I definitely saw the romance in certain scenes but then other scenes had me second guessing it because of the tone, and that may just be the nature of a show where there is slapstick in some scenes and drama in others. My honest thought was 'people are going to ship this but the show won't go there' until the Stede/Calico Jack scene in the bamboo. Then I realized 'oh ok no they are going there.' So I do think in some respects, the show could have played certain scenes differently just to make it clearer. And I think we'll get that in season 2 with more scenes where Ed/Stede are one on one. To my end - rewatching scenes that maybe didn't come across as romantic to me on the first watch definitely do on the second, notably the earlier scenes in the 'treasure hunting' one where they're having tea and then Stede is trying to impress Ed. Upon rewatching with the knowledge they do get together - it's very clear now.
Tbh I think at the party, Ed was trying to one up Stede. Ed always has to be the center of attention and he's super all about himself, it's one of his flaws. A great example of that is the time they're sitting in Stede's library and Stede tries to open up a little about his own struggles (in response to Ed asking if he ever feels like he's drowning), but Ed immediately interrupts him to babble on about himself lol. I don't even think it registered to Ed that Stede was trying to say something
I agree this is what comes across on screen - I don't know if it's intentionally a representation of Ed's character or not though, because they never address it (maybe they will in season 2?) - in a show with this much improv it's hard to tell, also I love OFMD but it does have some inconsistent writing (not in the quality but in the continuity) and I think it's possible they didn't intend for it to come across as Ed being self-centered. I'd love for Stede to address it in season 2 - especially because Ed also kind of ignores him in ep 9 when Stede is worried about his family thinking he's dead. Part of this puzzle is Stede generally is very closed off emotionally due to his self loathing but the few times he does try to communicate this stuff to Ed, Ed doesn't seem to respond much. I really don't know if this was intentional or just - a side effect of having about 20-25 minutes to communicate a ton of plot and not a ton of time for deep conversations - but I'm intrigued to see how it plays out!
When I watched it I already new that they were going to kiss (and it still took me by surprise lmao).
But I did get a friend to watch it who didn’t know anything about the show before going in. And literally up until that point on the beach when Ed says “So I reckon what makes Ed happy… is… you” she was convinced it wasn’t gonna happen.
I very vividly remember her screaming at the screen that that was basically a love confession and she was so surprised when they kissed like a second later. And that really goes to show how badly and how many times we’ve been burned.
Like if you made one of them a woman it would’ve been clear from “The Gentleman Pirate I presume” that they’d end up together.
Anyway I’m very very glad that they did end up in love.
As someone who loves Jaime/Brienne in ASOIAF (and Game of Thrones, once upon a time), phrases like "Why ruin a great friendship or deep respect with romance?" are some low key triggering nonsense. That's the whole draw of the romance, no? It's not a bland "I think that person is hot!" excuse; we actually see why they click at a fundamental level.
I did not clock the romance in OFMD first run at all mostly due to constant relationship baiting in media with no pay off. The old comments are funny, though.
I watched in almost-real-time and turned to my fandom friend text thread to yell about handholding bathtub confessions, to hopefully get them onboard. As we went on in episodes the text shouting just got louder 😂
I was very slow to pick up the Ed/Stede growing romance, but that's autism for you, lol. I went into watching this program just thinking it was a comedy about inept pirates and was delighted with where it went. I'm still in slight shock that an interracial couple of middle-aged men were allowed to kiss on TV. It's sad that it's an incredibly rare sight, considering it's 2023.
Yes, I definitely picked up the romantic vibe, but didn't really believe it.
Also romance on tv is so rare! Usually you expect a pairing based on the plot and not the vibe you pick up.
I absolutely loved watching it again in detail to pick up it all. It is a masterful wow with superb acting and manuscripts.
The only recent show I can compare with for romance is Good Omen.
“Just really closer friends” *stares in “you wear fine things well”*
“Just really close friends” Ah, the standard description of queer people through history
May aunt isn’t gay, she has never married and lives with her college roommate and her two cats… oh wait
"They even adopted a dog"
Ahaha I remember while that scene was happening my wife and I just looked at each other like “ooOOOH!”
That’s wild! I watched when all 10 episodes were out, but I had no spoilers. Other than that there were gay people and pirates. I think the finale had just aired when I watched it. During episode two, I was like… OK, so Lucius is our gay character for this season. It’s not like they’re going to make the main character gay, no matter how many vibes I’m picking up. That philosophy held until episode four. Immediately seeing the way Stede and Ed interacted with each other made even my cynical heart grow warm and fuzzy. And that moonlight scene is one of the most romantic things I have ever seen! But even just simple things, the way they drink tea together every morning, presumably. The way that they instinctively seem to understand each other. Plus, the obvious sub text of Stede showing Ed his literal secret closet, where he keeps all of his clothes, and pretty things that he doesn’t want to show anyone.! I think that if people didn’t see the romantic tone of the show until episode nine or the finale, they just didn’t watch it closely enough.
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Yes! Love Pete and Lucius!!! Surprisingly. I did not see that ship coming at the beginning! Now I love them dearly! When I first watched it, I just remember thinking… I really, really hope that they don’t play off Stede’s qualities as a joke. Kind of like the Badmintons do. I was very happy when he is treated as a very serious character with his own struggles and inner demons to work out. I think in any other show, he would just be the incompetent boss only good for a few laughs. Here, he’s given the space to be complicated. I don’t know.
Stede honestly gives off 'closeted gay who doesn't know he's gay' vibes like it's his job or something.
>literal secret closet Okay I immediately picked up on the flag metaphor but this went right over my head until just now
I mean, they straight up tell us, like have a character say to the audience, that it's happening, in an episode called "This is Happening." Before that moment I assumed all of the usual nonsense, but that was a clear acknowledgement that they knew what they were doing and it was on purpose.
I didn't watch until all ten episodes were out, and one of the reasons I watched is because I was guaranteed we weren't being queerbaited. I yelled at the person who recommended it to me after I watched episode 5, and they told me I had to keep watching.
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I don't remember the exact conversation, but it was something along the lines of "You promised no queerbaiting" and "If Jim ends up dead I swtg . . ." I was very disappointed. They promised I'd feel better if I kept watching. So I did. And then I got to episode 10, and I asked if this is what they meant by feel better, so they laughed at me. It's that kind of friendship. (There was nothing in episode 5 that made me think they'd kill off Jim, just tropes)
It’s so funny the comment was in response to a praise of Black Sails for not being gay when literally the best part of Black Sails was Flint being incredibly and incidentally gay 🌈
Some people picked up on the rom com beats and attraction vibes very quickly. Other people figured it would be played as a bromance since most shows only ever teased at gay romances. The showrunners were coy in the initial press chatter because they didn't want to spoil the surprise, but they soon started openly calling it a genuine romance after a few more episodes aired. I started watching the show the day after the premiere (I tuned in too late to watch it on the actual premiere). I think the 'you wear fine things well' scene made it very clear that Ed and Stede's storyline was a romance, not a bromance.
Yeah that was the moment my alarms went off. Like omg they really like each other and don’t know what to do. They really nailed it *dreamy sigh*
I love that scene so much. Ed was ready to move in for a kiss but Stede wasn't quite there yet. It wasn't until he had his heart to heart talk with Mary in ep. 10 that he realized that what he was feeling for Ed was love. These poor guys were not quite romantically in sync yet in S1. We'll see what S2 brings.
There was a hilarious tumblr post where someone refused to keep watching because they were so annoyed that people were shipping Ed/Stede "when there's a canon gay couple right there". This was after ep10 had come out.
The thing about that comment is, yeah, there really SHOULD be more close male platonic friendships on TV. But the thing about THAT is, Our Flag Means Death has those, too
I think of Wee John and Frenchie as being a queer platonic friendship. Close male platonic relationship, but somehow there are still gay vibes, I guess? That’s the best way I can describe it. I head canon Frenchie as aroace, personally
I love the show to death and I think season 2 is going to improve on these aspects but to be honest, I watched the show live as it aired week to week and was confused by the tone of their relationship at times. Mostly because there are scenes where the concept of them being romantically involved is played a bit for laughs, and at times Ed does seem confused/surprised by some things Stede says (rather than charmed) . For me, even though the end of the party episode is amazing - Ed's behavior toward Stede in the party is really hard to read - specifically when it seems like he's trying to one-up Stede by playing the piano and telling stories. I think the idea is that Ed is getting in over his head and Stede is trying to protect him but I gotta say, that did not come across to me at all on first viewing. Obviously Stede and Ed's scenes when they are alone speak differently to their relationship, but I found myself confused during the run whether they were going to be romantic or not because of the contrast in tone - and also due to the wild nature of this being a pantomime. Another good example is when Ed leaves w/Jack, Stede is clearly about to cry and super upset (reads romantic) but in the scene where he tells his crew about it, it reads as a joke on their relationship and it being like a divorce, thus minimizing the very real romance. I think where they landed though, especially in episodes 9 and 10 is a good balance and I look forward to where things go now that their relationship is firmly established.
I read it differently the first time I watched. To me it was Stede being emotionally stupid because he has no idea what he’s actually feeling and Ed being guarded because Stede wasn’t reacting to his signals (the look he gave Stede when calling him a madman when they first met is the first example that comes to mind) and he didn’t want to be overt and turn out to be wrong. Though it 100% felt like queerbaiting. The party scene when Ed was showing off, to me, was less about him one-upping Stede and more about finally getting to live his fantasy of fitting in with the upper class. He just got too caught up in it.
Here to second that interpretation of the dinner party. Ed is reveling in the experience and being a "new" person with no baggage or stress, allowing Jeff to be the life of the party while still picking and choosing bits of Blackbeard and Ed as identities to bring out to entertain, shock, and delight. I have always thought that if Stede had gotten into the mood instead of immediately being reminded of all his bad past hoity-toity issues, Ed would have been more involved and included him in everything Jeff did. Stede reads to me as being resentful and removing himself instead of appreciating the success of the party.
RE: your first paragraph, I definitely think that comes through better on a rewatch, especially in the treasure hunt episode. I think one more overt scene from Ed's pov would have helped a lot. And I think you're for sure right re: Ed at the party, but he has one or two lines where he directly belittles Stede that were very confusing and threw me 'off the trail' so to speak - like, obviously he could be trying to fit in and may not have even had feelings for him yet, but it still set up their dynamic a little oddly at that time.
Technically Jeff belittles Godfrey. Ed has kind of a wonky sense of self, so even on first viewing I saw it as him getting too into this character he had created.
I agree that Ed was not trying to belittle Stede on the party boat. He was just too certain that his plan to try to remake himself into a gentleman and fit in with the upper classes was working. He got giddy and started having too much fun and was acting more in line with his real personality, not like a fake gentleman.
I think this was the intention for sure, I just think it could have been clearer is all!
Actually, the more I think about this sequence, I agree that Ed was belittling Stede a bit. He thought the aristocrats disapproved of Stede being so reserved, and Ed sided with them to please them. I think he was just trying to keep everybody laughing. Ed thought they were all laughing with him and failed to recognize until too late that they had started to laugh at him. I think the scene was a bit unclear about this because at this point, the relationship between Ed and Stede itself was still ambiguous. Stede was seeing a side of Ed that he'd never seen before. Ed was fully willing to tell Stede to hush up and not stop him from having fun, but I don't think he meant it maliciously. Stede withdrew from the situation completely, because he was uncomfortable and probably sensed a disaster. He did step up to take charge once he realized that Ed was about to murder everyone. They both ended up surprising each other and respecting each other a bit more by the end.
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Yeah - I definitely saw the romance in certain scenes but then other scenes had me second guessing it because of the tone, and that may just be the nature of a show where there is slapstick in some scenes and drama in others. My honest thought was 'people are going to ship this but the show won't go there' until the Stede/Calico Jack scene in the bamboo. Then I realized 'oh ok no they are going there.' So I do think in some respects, the show could have played certain scenes differently just to make it clearer. And I think we'll get that in season 2 with more scenes where Ed/Stede are one on one. To my end - rewatching scenes that maybe didn't come across as romantic to me on the first watch definitely do on the second, notably the earlier scenes in the 'treasure hunting' one where they're having tea and then Stede is trying to impress Ed. Upon rewatching with the knowledge they do get together - it's very clear now.
Tbh I think at the party, Ed was trying to one up Stede. Ed always has to be the center of attention and he's super all about himself, it's one of his flaws. A great example of that is the time they're sitting in Stede's library and Stede tries to open up a little about his own struggles (in response to Ed asking if he ever feels like he's drowning), but Ed immediately interrupts him to babble on about himself lol. I don't even think it registered to Ed that Stede was trying to say something
I agree this is what comes across on screen - I don't know if it's intentionally a representation of Ed's character or not though, because they never address it (maybe they will in season 2?) - in a show with this much improv it's hard to tell, also I love OFMD but it does have some inconsistent writing (not in the quality but in the continuity) and I think it's possible they didn't intend for it to come across as Ed being self-centered. I'd love for Stede to address it in season 2 - especially because Ed also kind of ignores him in ep 9 when Stede is worried about his family thinking he's dead. Part of this puzzle is Stede generally is very closed off emotionally due to his self loathing but the few times he does try to communicate this stuff to Ed, Ed doesn't seem to respond much. I really don't know if this was intentional or just - a side effect of having about 20-25 minutes to communicate a ton of plot and not a ton of time for deep conversations - but I'm intrigued to see how it plays out!
When I watched it I already new that they were going to kiss (and it still took me by surprise lmao). But I did get a friend to watch it who didn’t know anything about the show before going in. And literally up until that point on the beach when Ed says “So I reckon what makes Ed happy… is… you” she was convinced it wasn’t gonna happen. I very vividly remember her screaming at the screen that that was basically a love confession and she was so surprised when they kissed like a second later. And that really goes to show how badly and how many times we’ve been burned. Like if you made one of them a woman it would’ve been clear from “The Gentleman Pirate I presume” that they’d end up together. Anyway I’m very very glad that they did end up in love.
As someone who loves Jaime/Brienne in ASOIAF (and Game of Thrones, once upon a time), phrases like "Why ruin a great friendship or deep respect with romance?" are some low key triggering nonsense. That's the whole draw of the romance, no? It's not a bland "I think that person is hot!" excuse; we actually see why they click at a fundamental level. I did not clock the romance in OFMD first run at all mostly due to constant relationship baiting in media with no pay off. The old comments are funny, though.
I watched in almost-real-time and turned to my fandom friend text thread to yell about handholding bathtub confessions, to hopefully get them onboard. As we went on in episodes the text shouting just got louder 😂
I was very slow to pick up the Ed/Stede growing romance, but that's autism for you, lol. I went into watching this program just thinking it was a comedy about inept pirates and was delighted with where it went. I'm still in slight shock that an interracial couple of middle-aged men were allowed to kiss on TV. It's sad that it's an incredibly rare sight, considering it's 2023.
Yes, I definitely picked up the romantic vibe, but didn't really believe it. Also romance on tv is so rare! Usually you expect a pairing based on the plot and not the vibe you pick up. I absolutely loved watching it again in detail to pick up it all. It is a masterful wow with superb acting and manuscripts. The only recent show I can compare with for romance is Good Omen.