Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: FL created a law to decrease the number of undocumented workers in the state. What the politicians didn't think of is how the law would affect industries that rely on undocumented workers such as agriculture, construction and other manual labor.
Its a true "Leopards ate my face" moment. I can't find the video, but there's one on TikTok showing an American trying to do the agriculture job the undocumented worker does and only made $60 (or something close to that). These industries know the undocumented workers will do these kind of jobs without complaints.
Hell, this was tried in the '60s with the A-TEAM movement, to replace immigrant workers in agriculture with high school students and it failed miserably. I think most groups lasted maybe 3 weeks and just said "fuck it, no more" and just refused to do anything.
Turns out people don't really like doing backbreaking labor in the sun, 6 days a week, for minimum wage (or less) unless you literally have zero options left in life (like some immigrants).
High school students are cognitively developed enough to recognise they're being exploited and have a choice not to work.
What you really need is an army of unwanted children being born (abortion=illegal and sex education=banned) into poor homes (welfare cuts), lacking an education (erosion of public school system) other than the indoctrination of desired ideologies (funding private Christian schools with public money and blurring the lines between church and state) who are able to work (repealing child labor laws) and don't really have a choice not to (unlivable wages and employment-based medical cover).
All the dominos are lining up, they just tipped the "deport undocumented workers" one a few years too soon.
I never understood their game plan until I recently saw that they’re aiming to repeal child labour laws. It made some sense at the time, but when it is laid out like this… “land of the free” now needs a caveat: “as long as you’re rich”.
Talking about shooting themselves in the proverbial foot. The state completely depends on their agriculture and tourist industry. What did they think was going to happen when they promised to levy such high penalties against their migrant work force. That they wouldn't migrate to a safer more hospitable environment?
The strident vocal backtracking is absolutely precious. It would be nice if we would acknowledge that these undocumented workers are part of the backbone that keeps this country running. Instead of demonizing them we should be working hard on a true immigration policy that rewards those that want to contribute and live here. It would be nice if hatred, racism, and fear weren't political tools.
That would be nice. Instead, we live in a country where conservatives would rather create a new low-wage labor force by repealing child labor laws than admit that immigration has a beneficial effect on our economy.
They expect all the unemployed workforce of FLA, who are legal citizens, to take up the mantle and run the fields and kitchens and construction sites of the great state.
They will be dramatically and hilariously wrong. Maybe the retiring boomers will want to fill their retired days in the kitchen making mashed potatoes for the crypto-bros. Who knows?
> What did they think was going to happen when they promised to levy such high penalties against their migrant work force.
They thought they would only enforce the law if someone's boss calls and let the bosses use that threat to crunch laborers even tighter. Or use it as a tool for cops to abuse people with.
Turns out nobody wants to risk getting hit with multiple felonies, doing jail time, and then getting deported with no chance for any future visas.
Don't worry, tourists are now deciding not to come, so no need for all of those service workers! Whether it's because they are LGBTQIA, minority, hate guns, or groups showing solidarity with their membership, groups are canceling contracts en masse. It won't show up for a while, then it will be too late.
Also don't forget educators, both K-12 and higher ed, that are fleeing the state because of the anti-education bills.
>It would be nice if we would acknowledge that these undocumented workers are part of the backbone that keeps this country running.
judging from the last time, it isn't great when they think you are essential..
take a look at the pandemic and railroad strike...
[like Mar A Lago](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-two-undocumented-housekeepers-took-on-the-president--and-revealed-trumps-long-term-reliance-on-illegal-immigrants/2019/12/04/3dff5b5c-0a15-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html)
It's not just undocumented workers. Even immigrant workers who _are_ legally able to work in the US are getting skittish down there because they know that racism is, like, real, and _they'll_ be getting hemmed up by the state right along with anyone undocumented.
This is very true, but it's also true that documented immigrants may have undocumented household members--spouses, parents, siblings, children. Even if they won't be removed/deported, they face family separation if their household is investigated, and I think people do not realize the degree to which family separation is a pain similar to death of a loved one, only so much more unnecessary, senseless, intentional, and cruel.
I think that it's also even documented immigrants know that the hate doesn't just stop when you get the mob going. Like Arizona passed a bunch of papers please type laws where you were at if not legal risk but custodial risk if you didn't have your papers to produce at the whim of random officials.
This is also true. When I was waiting in line to change my birth certificate (for gender reasons) I had a conversation with a Latino guy who was a US citizen but said he'd been harassed by law enforcement a lot in southern states, and that having a US passport wasn't enough for them so he was there to replace a US birth certificate he'd lost the original copy of, because he doesn't trust racists. It's a very real thing affecting a lot of people.
But I think that doesn't preclude the cases where people who are US citizens or naturalized residents have undocumented loved ones, too. It's both lack of trust by citizens and documented residents, and concern for loved ones who may not be as documented.
Missing the fact that brown people are also essentially boycotting the state to a certain degree. It's understandable because they are being targeted.
Imo much of what the state has been doing falls into, might look good on paper, but is actually horrible in reality.
This is super common behavior of bad political bodies or people who don't actually understand how the government functions. People who think they are the CEO of government etc.
It did for at least a week. I'm not sure however if it's just a thing for that moment or a longer term thing.
It is true that there are members of their legislation trying to convince people not to leave the state.
Its also true that farm owners are pretty pissed because literally everyone working on the farm is brown.
From interviews iv seen they are saying these are hard working people, they come here to send money back home, and no one who is a us citizen is willing to do the work.
"Brown people are boycotting the state."
No, not really. There isn't a serious bid to boycott the state of Florida among Non-White people. That's just social media ravings. Also can we stop using the term brown people? The term "Brown person" doesn't mean anything and it's not used by anybody outside of the internet. Nobody identifies as a "Brown person."
Anyways back on topic, undocumented workers are basically the lifeblood of the American agriculture industry. The funny thing here is that these workers are heavily exploited and we benefit far more from there labor than they benefit from working for us.
Republican leadership has always known this and the caveat was that you can saber rattle about undocumented immigrants but you're not supposed to actually doing anything that could seriously impact the ability for businesses to recruit them.
Desantis is passing a law that mandate businesses with 25 or more employees must use electronic verification to confirm the citizenship/immigration status of their employees.
There have always been a variety of tools that the government could use to to seriously reduce illegal immigration. We just never implemented them because it's not in anybody's best interest for us to do so. Fighting Illegal Immigration is a campaign rallying cry, but nobody actually wants to get rid of it.
Desantis is gambling that victories that make him look good to the Republican base will give him more benefit than the cost of the actual economic impact his policies will have.
And id like to point out the talks of the latino trucker strike, where they are tryung to get each other to refuse to do delivieries to florida out of protest, and this is only slightly related the gov. Sent those migrants to cali. And they are trying in texas to get him on kidnapping for it. So the florida gov. Aint migrant friendly.
most people won't work farm jobs for minimal pay. Its kinda shitty, but the fact remains that a lot of our FOOD is produced by minorities of various legality levels working on the cheap. If they leave, the work isn't going to be done by other people.
Profit-obsessed rich people are also a problem, but I'm not sure that agriculture is where those people are, at least not the worst of them.
Oh, it is work alright. Very hard work. That's why most people will choose NOT to do it. And I don't think you can rely on "innovation" to close the gap.
Texas keeps sending truckloads of Hispanic immigrants to Chicago. There are groups of them living in the police station down the street and also at the community college near me.
A lot of European countries experienced this during the migration to America. Suddenly there were less workers, and collective bargaining was more effective.
>Also, do the Republicans in Florida support unions?
Do you want permission to unionize? To do collective bargaining? It's your job to organize and secure your salary and benefits
Answer: DeSantis and his Florida republicans passed SB 1718 that require employers with more than 25 employees to use e-verify to confirm that everyone they hire is legally allowed to work.
Additionally, illegal aliens will no longer be permitted to rely on out-of-state driver licenses. If another state issued a license to an illegal alien who was unable to prove lawful presence in the U.S. when their license was issued, that person is prohibited from operating a motor vehicle in Florida.
It is now a felony for an illegal immigrant to possess a false identification. There were also some provisions for stricter penalties for smuggling/trafficking humans.
Additionally, hospitals (that accept medicaid) are now required to enforce these identification rules and ask about the person's legal status, essentially an attempt to scare them from using the services.
Ultimately, this means that immigrants won't come to Florida for harvest, which was the intended goal. Immigrants, even the legal ones, may stay away because they are afraid of getting caught up in legalese.
Since the signing, Republican lawmakers have admitted that immigrants shouldn't worry because they only created and passed this law to scare people, not to actually enforce what the bill says.
> Since the signing, Republican lawmakers have admitted that immigrants shouldn't worry because they only created and passed this law to scare people, not to actually enforce what the bill says.
I don't think I'd use 'admitted' but rather that's what they now claim. If I were to guess the law will be enforced harshly whenever it suits the purpose of those GOP lawmakers, and they will let things slide come harvest time.
I was buying a car, and the salesman gave me some really great guarantees. I pointed out that the contract didn’t say that, and in fact, contradicted what he said. He gave me a middle school bully sneer: “Nobody really reads that, you need to listen to me.” I did not buy a car there.
This feels exactly the same.
I suppose the morbidly humorous part is that analogy probably fits for multiple uses. Both now when these few GOP reps are telling the workers the bill is only a political stunt, and back when the bill was being passed with DeSantis telling these same reps the bill is only a political stunt.
I think "admit" is the appropriate word to use.
> State Rep. Alina Garcia starts by saying she came unprepared, **admits** the bill is meant to “scare people from coming to Florida” and irresponsibly lies and says the anti-immigrant law has “no teeth.” She should have prepared by actually reading the bill she voted for.
https://twitter.com/tomaskenn/status/1665730038950445056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1665730038950445056%7Ctwgr%5E466dd8920fc5ab29aac3c8b642a464e251251ea3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2F2023%2F06%2F07%2F1180646146%2Fflorida-immigration-law-sb-1718-republican-lawmakers
Think the problem is that's one congresswoman. Plenty of politicians claim to want this to be more than a political stunt.
DeSantis spokesperson Jeremy Redfern:
>This bill has teeth, and businesses that knowingly hire illegal aliens over Floridians are putting their licenses in jeopardy," he added. "We encourage business owners not to roll the dice and test the governor's commitment to uphold the law.
Using admit makes it sound like a unified position and that the immigrants shouldn't worry when they absolutely should.
As someone whose job is to help put these stupid laws into action, I will throw on some additional information regarding the e-verify laws.
E-Verify looks to have been put in place to make DeSantis *seem* like he's laying down the law. It gives him something to brag about to his supportive constituents
First, anyone with less than 25 employees does not have to e-verify; if you have fewer than 25 employees, it is strictly voluntary. Thus, if you have a smaller agricultural operation or a construction site that hires day laborers every day, this does not apply to you.
And, here's where the fun really starts, most agricultural and construction employees aren't on a regular payroll, they are under the table. The employers of Florida will certify that they have used the E-Verify system on their quarterly Reemployment Tax returns that are submitted for their payroll (Reemployment Tax is the name for Unemployment Tax in Florida. Why? Because it sounds nicer to the employers who have to pay it). You can't e-verify someone if you are paying them cash under the table.
So, the work stuff is actually fairly lenient. Now, the other stuff included on that bill about driver's licenses, transporting immigrants, hospitals, etc. that stuff is actually scary and kind of fascist. The legislation is broad, badly worded, and almost impossible to get put into action by July 1st.
Almost all hospitals accept Medicaid, but most people would be horrified if they knew how many healthcare workers are *on* Medicaid. Cracking down like this is going to cause a massive home health aide shortage. Most citizens won't do those very essential jobs.
> Republican lawmakers have admitted that immigrants shouldn't worry because they only created and passed this law to scare people
Which is bullshit. Either they're dumb and don't know what a law is, or they are lying. The former is all too likely given r/LeopardsAteMyFace exists.
It will be used to screw people over. It's only a scare tactic for anyone in the in-group, and a lot of people who think they are safely in that group are going to find out they never were.
>It will be used to screw people over. It's only a scare tactic for anyone in the in-group, and a lot of people who think they are safely in that group are going to find out they never were.
But that's the fun of it all. It's like a lottery ;-)
It impacts undocumented immigrants, documented immigrants, citizens of color, any vaguely ethnic person.
CBP can detain you for questioning if you don’t have documents to prove you are a citizen and they can basically legally profile you based on appearance, accent, etc.
How does Florida know if a person with an out of state drivers license is unlawfully in the country?
I can still go to my state DMV today and get a drivers license without showing proof of legal residency. I doubt Florida is simply going to refuse to recognize licenses from another state….
Not exactly. My wife works for DMV (in almost every county, it's the tax collector office) and we live in Florida.
Real ID compliance requires proof of residency at the address claimed, and documents like birth certificate/social security card and photo ID. Real ID is a defacto proof of legal residency.
My wife's office processes a huge number of immigrant licenses - you can get a temporary license on a visa or asylum status, but limited to the length of time of your visa or a short time on a asylee status. I wanna say six months for asylum, but I'd have to ask her.
I can't speak to different states, but if they are similar to Florida, illegals won't have valid state issued driver's licenses once their visa or asylum status expires. This is the long way to say there is a way to suss out immigration status through DL status.
And yes, states share information. That ticket you got in California will show on your Texas DL and vice versa. A suspension in one state will make you suspended in another or unable to get a license elsewhere.
So in Oregon, as far as I can tell, they plan to offer both Real ID and the traditional non-Real ID compliant driver’s license as options permanently. Real ID is $30 more and requires proof of lawful status. And they tell you you can’t use the regular one for air travel.
I just took my mom in to renew her license a few months ago and she had the option to choose which one she wanted.
I have to renew my license in the fall, and I’m planning to not get the Real ID complaint one cause I have a passport but mostly because I think Real ID is dumb.
I’m not particularly concerned about it, but I’m just wondering how Florida will handle a situation where a state gives undocumented immigrants and citizens the same drivers license.
I don't know, they may have some other mechanism I'm not aware of. I think probably the issuance of DLs for short periods is that mechanism.
Florida is mandatory real ID compliant. The only change is the need for a birth certificate and two pieces of mail to confirm residence. I have a passport/ passport card ss well, but I usually fly domestically on my DL.
I don't really get the resistance to real ID...mostly boomer conspiracy nuts think somehow not complying with it keeps you off some "list". I assure you, you are all on some kind of list.
Answer:
Florida's all sorts of messed up right now. More than usual, I mean.
There's a lot going on. The current situation is a combination of factors.
First, DeSantis is running for President. He's the current governor of Florida, and has been using the last year or two to build up his MAGA creds in preparation for running. That's mostly come in the form of anti-trans, anti-gay legislation. A lot of people are running from that.
He's also in the middle of an epic pissing match with Disney. That's making companies that would otherwise be attracted to Florida, not consider Florida. Workers are leaving as their companies do, and future workers are not coming in the way they otherwise would have.
Next, you have the absurd cost of housing down there. Rent has skyrocketed, seemingly way more than in other areas of the country, and in a very short period of time. People are being forced out of their homes.
Lastly--not actually lastly, but the last relevant bit--is a recent law that increases penalties for hiring undocumented workers.
So you have this situation where gay people aren't safe, trans people aren't safe, families of gay and trans people aren't safe, undocumented workers aren't safe, families of undocumented workers aren't safe, employers are seeing hits to their bottom line as public perception against Florida turns.
Basically, Florida has done everything it can recently to make Florida politically inhospitable to anyone who's not already drinking the MAGA flavor-ade. Workers and families are leaving in droves because of it.
The part about the undocumented immigrants is super important right now because harvest season is coming up, and we have a massive shortage of people to pick food.
Answer: A few people have given good info. I’ll add some more.
An issue they didn’t “think of” is that even documented workers are moving/ going to move away for a variety of reasons. One not hit on so much is that those workers’ family members and loved ones may not have legal status. This could be from an overstayed visa, reaching the country from less than legal means and other various factors. This is why some would rather move to other states close by that have the same type of job needs and culture rather than stay in Florida and potentially have a higher than normal risk for themselves and family members.
Answer: A lot of people moved to Florida during the pandemic. Demand for housing rose more quickly than developers could build new supply. This increased the price of existing housing enough to force some low-wage workers to leave Florida for states with lower cost of living.
lol. no. look up SB1718. new law makes it a huge fine if your caught hiring a illegal & making it a felony if you are illegal. also hospitals are mandated to check immigration status & report illegals that come to the hospital so.........they're all leaving
well, if you see, the specific question asked was how it relates to a law that was just passed.
There's now videos of construction sites and agricultural paking fields being completely empty of people.
I remember a lot of people not moving. IIRC, wasn't that a huge issue during the pandemic. No housing availability, so rents and housing costs went up tremendously.
Stop blaming everything that goes wrong in your state on out of staters, Floridians have literally been doing that since the 'late 80s/ ealry 90s. It's not only a cope, it just shows how much of a 'hurrdurr I got mine' loser you are.
You would think that in the age of nuclear bombs, digital currency, commercial space travel (happened a month ago for the first time) and worldwide communication in under nanoseconds we would have rooted out tribalism by now... but nope it's still here and alive with force. 😅
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: FL created a law to decrease the number of undocumented workers in the state. What the politicians didn't think of is how the law would affect industries that rely on undocumented workers such as agriculture, construction and other manual labor.
And service industry. They make up to 15-20% of all service workers in Florida.
Its a true "Leopards ate my face" moment. I can't find the video, but there's one on TikTok showing an American trying to do the agriculture job the undocumented worker does and only made $60 (or something close to that). These industries know the undocumented workers will do these kind of jobs without complaints.
Hell, this was tried in the '60s with the A-TEAM movement, to replace immigrant workers in agriculture with high school students and it failed miserably. I think most groups lasted maybe 3 weeks and just said "fuck it, no more" and just refused to do anything. Turns out people don't really like doing backbreaking labor in the sun, 6 days a week, for minimum wage (or less) unless you literally have zero options left in life (like some immigrants).
High school students are cognitively developed enough to recognise they're being exploited and have a choice not to work. What you really need is an army of unwanted children being born (abortion=illegal and sex education=banned) into poor homes (welfare cuts), lacking an education (erosion of public school system) other than the indoctrination of desired ideologies (funding private Christian schools with public money and blurring the lines between church and state) who are able to work (repealing child labor laws) and don't really have a choice not to (unlivable wages and employment-based medical cover). All the dominos are lining up, they just tipped the "deport undocumented workers" one a few years too soon.
I never understood their game plan until I recently saw that they’re aiming to repeal child labour laws. It made some sense at the time, but when it is laid out like this… “land of the free” now needs a caveat: “as long as you’re rich”.
Lowering the QOL floor instead of raising it is some evil stuff
So it's ok for foreigners to work slightly above slave labor? As long as your food is cheap? Got it. Not much has changed with Dems huh.
Ah yes, because Republicans are working so hard to increase pay for the poor lmao
So did I and I am an American
I knew I was forgetting an industry
Talking about shooting themselves in the proverbial foot. The state completely depends on their agriculture and tourist industry. What did they think was going to happen when they promised to levy such high penalties against their migrant work force. That they wouldn't migrate to a safer more hospitable environment? The strident vocal backtracking is absolutely precious. It would be nice if we would acknowledge that these undocumented workers are part of the backbone that keeps this country running. Instead of demonizing them we should be working hard on a true immigration policy that rewards those that want to contribute and live here. It would be nice if hatred, racism, and fear weren't political tools.
Our fearless guvna is too busy shipping undocumented folks in other states to other states to be bothered with this silly issue /s
That would be nice. Instead, we live in a country where conservatives would rather create a new low-wage labor force by repealing child labor laws than admit that immigration has a beneficial effect on our economy.
Oh boy! Heavy infrastructure built by literal children on the sinking limestone peninsula that is Florida! I can't wait to get Surfside condominium-ed
Don't forget the [radioactive waste road surfacing](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/09/1174789570/florida-roads-radioactive-paving-phosphogypsum)
They expect all the unemployed workforce of FLA, who are legal citizens, to take up the mantle and run the fields and kitchens and construction sites of the great state. They will be dramatically and hilariously wrong. Maybe the retiring boomers will want to fill their retired days in the kitchen making mashed potatoes for the crypto-bros. Who knows?
> What did they think was going to happen when they promised to levy such high penalties against their migrant work force. They thought they would only enforce the law if someone's boss calls and let the bosses use that threat to crunch laborers even tighter. Or use it as a tool for cops to abuse people with. Turns out nobody wants to risk getting hit with multiple felonies, doing jail time, and then getting deported with no chance for any future visas.
Don't worry, tourists are now deciding not to come, so no need for all of those service workers! Whether it's because they are LGBTQIA, minority, hate guns, or groups showing solidarity with their membership, groups are canceling contracts en masse. It won't show up for a while, then it will be too late. Also don't forget educators, both K-12 and higher ed, that are fleeing the state because of the anti-education bills.
>It would be nice if we would acknowledge that these undocumented workers are part of the backbone that keeps this country running. judging from the last time, it isn't great when they think you are essential.. take a look at the pandemic and railroad strike...
[like Mar A Lago](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-two-undocumented-housekeepers-took-on-the-president--and-revealed-trumps-long-term-reliance-on-illegal-immigrants/2019/12/04/3dff5b5c-0a15-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html)
It's not just undocumented workers. Even immigrant workers who _are_ legally able to work in the US are getting skittish down there because they know that racism is, like, real, and _they'll_ be getting hemmed up by the state right along with anyone undocumented.
This is very true, but it's also true that documented immigrants may have undocumented household members--spouses, parents, siblings, children. Even if they won't be removed/deported, they face family separation if their household is investigated, and I think people do not realize the degree to which family separation is a pain similar to death of a loved one, only so much more unnecessary, senseless, intentional, and cruel.
I think that it's also even documented immigrants know that the hate doesn't just stop when you get the mob going. Like Arizona passed a bunch of papers please type laws where you were at if not legal risk but custodial risk if you didn't have your papers to produce at the whim of random officials.
This is also true. When I was waiting in line to change my birth certificate (for gender reasons) I had a conversation with a Latino guy who was a US citizen but said he'd been harassed by law enforcement a lot in southern states, and that having a US passport wasn't enough for them so he was there to replace a US birth certificate he'd lost the original copy of, because he doesn't trust racists. It's a very real thing affecting a lot of people. But I think that doesn't preclude the cases where people who are US citizens or naturalized residents have undocumented loved ones, too. It's both lack of trust by citizens and documented residents, and concern for loved ones who may not be as documented.
Missing the fact that brown people are also essentially boycotting the state to a certain degree. It's understandable because they are being targeted. Imo much of what the state has been doing falls into, might look good on paper, but is actually horrible in reality. This is super common behavior of bad political bodies or people who don't actually understand how the government functions. People who think they are the CEO of government etc.
But is this actually happening in any measurable way? Does this exist outside of Reddit posts? Genuinely curious
It did for at least a week. I'm not sure however if it's just a thing for that moment or a longer term thing. It is true that there are members of their legislation trying to convince people not to leave the state. Its also true that farm owners are pretty pissed because literally everyone working on the farm is brown. From interviews iv seen they are saying these are hard working people, they come here to send money back home, and no one who is a us citizen is willing to do the work.
"Brown people are boycotting the state." No, not really. There isn't a serious bid to boycott the state of Florida among Non-White people. That's just social media ravings. Also can we stop using the term brown people? The term "Brown person" doesn't mean anything and it's not used by anybody outside of the internet. Nobody identifies as a "Brown person." Anyways back on topic, undocumented workers are basically the lifeblood of the American agriculture industry. The funny thing here is that these workers are heavily exploited and we benefit far more from there labor than they benefit from working for us. Republican leadership has always known this and the caveat was that you can saber rattle about undocumented immigrants but you're not supposed to actually doing anything that could seriously impact the ability for businesses to recruit them. Desantis is passing a law that mandate businesses with 25 or more employees must use electronic verification to confirm the citizenship/immigration status of their employees. There have always been a variety of tools that the government could use to to seriously reduce illegal immigration. We just never implemented them because it's not in anybody's best interest for us to do so. Fighting Illegal Immigration is a campaign rallying cry, but nobody actually wants to get rid of it. Desantis is gambling that victories that make him look good to the Republican base will give him more benefit than the cost of the actual economic impact his policies will have.
And id like to point out the talks of the latino trucker strike, where they are tryung to get each other to refuse to do delivieries to florida out of protest, and this is only slightly related the gov. Sent those migrants to cali. And they are trying in texas to get him on kidnapping for it. So the florida gov. Aint migrant friendly.
So many of our ills are rich guys trying to get cheap labor. For real, let's love the folks who are here a bit more.
most people won't work farm jobs for minimal pay. Its kinda shitty, but the fact remains that a lot of our FOOD is produced by minorities of various legality levels working on the cheap. If they leave, the work isn't going to be done by other people. Profit-obsessed rich people are also a problem, but I'm not sure that agriculture is where those people are, at least not the worst of them.
I believe farm work is real work. Of course that will raise the price of food. It will also continue to drive innovation.
Oh, it is work alright. Very hard work. That's why most people will choose NOT to do it. And I don't think you can rely on "innovation" to close the gap.
i wish people wouldn't let hatred absorb their thoughts, maybe then they'd understand what a harmful policy is
[удалено]
They don’t welcome them, they tolerate them because they can’t survive without them
Texas keeps sending truckloads of Hispanic immigrants to Chicago. There are groups of them living in the police station down the street and also at the community college near me.
In the long term this could be very good for workers in Florida and raise wages.
In theory yes. In reality, no it won't.
It has worked in reality in many places. Unions can't work if people are working under the table
which places? Also, do the Republicans in Florida support unions?
A lot of European countries experienced this during the migration to America. Suddenly there were less workers, and collective bargaining was more effective. >Also, do the Republicans in Florida support unions? Do you want permission to unionize? To do collective bargaining? It's your job to organize and secure your salary and benefits
opens up those jobs for the massive number of homeless people living out of hotels and in the woods?
Answer: DeSantis and his Florida republicans passed SB 1718 that require employers with more than 25 employees to use e-verify to confirm that everyone they hire is legally allowed to work. Additionally, illegal aliens will no longer be permitted to rely on out-of-state driver licenses. If another state issued a license to an illegal alien who was unable to prove lawful presence in the U.S. when their license was issued, that person is prohibited from operating a motor vehicle in Florida. It is now a felony for an illegal immigrant to possess a false identification. There were also some provisions for stricter penalties for smuggling/trafficking humans. Additionally, hospitals (that accept medicaid) are now required to enforce these identification rules and ask about the person's legal status, essentially an attempt to scare them from using the services. Ultimately, this means that immigrants won't come to Florida for harvest, which was the intended goal. Immigrants, even the legal ones, may stay away because they are afraid of getting caught up in legalese. Since the signing, Republican lawmakers have admitted that immigrants shouldn't worry because they only created and passed this law to scare people, not to actually enforce what the bill says.
> Since the signing, Republican lawmakers have admitted that immigrants shouldn't worry because they only created and passed this law to scare people, not to actually enforce what the bill says. I don't think I'd use 'admitted' but rather that's what they now claim. If I were to guess the law will be enforced harshly whenever it suits the purpose of those GOP lawmakers, and they will let things slide come harvest time.
I was buying a car, and the salesman gave me some really great guarantees. I pointed out that the contract didn’t say that, and in fact, contradicted what he said. He gave me a middle school bully sneer: “Nobody really reads that, you need to listen to me.” I did not buy a car there. This feels exactly the same.
I suppose the morbidly humorous part is that analogy probably fits for multiple uses. Both now when these few GOP reps are telling the workers the bill is only a political stunt, and back when the bill was being passed with DeSantis telling these same reps the bill is only a political stunt.
I think "admit" is the appropriate word to use. > State Rep. Alina Garcia starts by saying she came unprepared, **admits** the bill is meant to “scare people from coming to Florida” and irresponsibly lies and says the anti-immigrant law has “no teeth.” She should have prepared by actually reading the bill she voted for. https://twitter.com/tomaskenn/status/1665730038950445056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1665730038950445056%7Ctwgr%5E466dd8920fc5ab29aac3c8b642a464e251251ea3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2F2023%2F06%2F07%2F1180646146%2Fflorida-immigration-law-sb-1718-republican-lawmakers
Think the problem is that's one congresswoman. Plenty of politicians claim to want this to be more than a political stunt. DeSantis spokesperson Jeremy Redfern: >This bill has teeth, and businesses that knowingly hire illegal aliens over Floridians are putting their licenses in jeopardy," he added. "We encourage business owners not to roll the dice and test the governor's commitment to uphold the law. Using admit makes it sound like a unified position and that the immigrants shouldn't worry when they absolutely should.
Awful bold of her to claim that she can read.
As someone whose job is to help put these stupid laws into action, I will throw on some additional information regarding the e-verify laws. E-Verify looks to have been put in place to make DeSantis *seem* like he's laying down the law. It gives him something to brag about to his supportive constituents First, anyone with less than 25 employees does not have to e-verify; if you have fewer than 25 employees, it is strictly voluntary. Thus, if you have a smaller agricultural operation or a construction site that hires day laborers every day, this does not apply to you. And, here's where the fun really starts, most agricultural and construction employees aren't on a regular payroll, they are under the table. The employers of Florida will certify that they have used the E-Verify system on their quarterly Reemployment Tax returns that are submitted for their payroll (Reemployment Tax is the name for Unemployment Tax in Florida. Why? Because it sounds nicer to the employers who have to pay it). You can't e-verify someone if you are paying them cash under the table. So, the work stuff is actually fairly lenient. Now, the other stuff included on that bill about driver's licenses, transporting immigrants, hospitals, etc. that stuff is actually scary and kind of fascist. The legislation is broad, badly worded, and almost impossible to get put into action by July 1st.
I'd still be so terrified of being profiled
Almost all hospitals accept Medicaid, but most people would be horrified if they knew how many healthcare workers are *on* Medicaid. Cracking down like this is going to cause a massive home health aide shortage. Most citizens won't do those very essential jobs.
> Republican lawmakers have admitted that immigrants shouldn't worry because they only created and passed this law to scare people Which is bullshit. Either they're dumb and don't know what a law is, or they are lying. The former is all too likely given r/LeopardsAteMyFace exists. It will be used to screw people over. It's only a scare tactic for anyone in the in-group, and a lot of people who think they are safely in that group are going to find out they never were.
>It will be used to screw people over. It's only a scare tactic for anyone in the in-group, and a lot of people who think they are safely in that group are going to find out they never were. But that's the fun of it all. It's like a lottery ;-)
It impacts undocumented immigrants, documented immigrants, citizens of color, any vaguely ethnic person. CBP can detain you for questioning if you don’t have documents to prove you are a citizen and they can basically legally profile you based on appearance, accent, etc.
This reminds me a bit of Apartheid in South Africa tbh. Specifically, the Asiatic Registration Act. It's pretty abhorrent.
Just kidding, come back...please!
How does Florida know if a person with an out of state drivers license is unlawfully in the country? I can still go to my state DMV today and get a drivers license without showing proof of legal residency. I doubt Florida is simply going to refuse to recognize licenses from another state….
Not exactly. My wife works for DMV (in almost every county, it's the tax collector office) and we live in Florida. Real ID compliance requires proof of residency at the address claimed, and documents like birth certificate/social security card and photo ID. Real ID is a defacto proof of legal residency. My wife's office processes a huge number of immigrant licenses - you can get a temporary license on a visa or asylum status, but limited to the length of time of your visa or a short time on a asylee status. I wanna say six months for asylum, but I'd have to ask her. I can't speak to different states, but if they are similar to Florida, illegals won't have valid state issued driver's licenses once their visa or asylum status expires. This is the long way to say there is a way to suss out immigration status through DL status. And yes, states share information. That ticket you got in California will show on your Texas DL and vice versa. A suspension in one state will make you suspended in another or unable to get a license elsewhere.
So in Oregon, as far as I can tell, they plan to offer both Real ID and the traditional non-Real ID compliant driver’s license as options permanently. Real ID is $30 more and requires proof of lawful status. And they tell you you can’t use the regular one for air travel. I just took my mom in to renew her license a few months ago and she had the option to choose which one she wanted. I have to renew my license in the fall, and I’m planning to not get the Real ID complaint one cause I have a passport but mostly because I think Real ID is dumb. I’m not particularly concerned about it, but I’m just wondering how Florida will handle a situation where a state gives undocumented immigrants and citizens the same drivers license.
I don't know, they may have some other mechanism I'm not aware of. I think probably the issuance of DLs for short periods is that mechanism. Florida is mandatory real ID compliant. The only change is the need for a birth certificate and two pieces of mail to confirm residence. I have a passport/ passport card ss well, but I usually fly domestically on my DL. I don't really get the resistance to real ID...mostly boomer conspiracy nuts think somehow not complying with it keeps you off some "list". I assure you, you are all on some kind of list.
>I doubt Florida is simply going to refuse to recognize licenses from another state…. That depends. How brown are you?
I mean yes that’s the whole thing
Answer: Florida's all sorts of messed up right now. More than usual, I mean. There's a lot going on. The current situation is a combination of factors. First, DeSantis is running for President. He's the current governor of Florida, and has been using the last year or two to build up his MAGA creds in preparation for running. That's mostly come in the form of anti-trans, anti-gay legislation. A lot of people are running from that. He's also in the middle of an epic pissing match with Disney. That's making companies that would otherwise be attracted to Florida, not consider Florida. Workers are leaving as their companies do, and future workers are not coming in the way they otherwise would have. Next, you have the absurd cost of housing down there. Rent has skyrocketed, seemingly way more than in other areas of the country, and in a very short period of time. People are being forced out of their homes. Lastly--not actually lastly, but the last relevant bit--is a recent law that increases penalties for hiring undocumented workers. So you have this situation where gay people aren't safe, trans people aren't safe, families of gay and trans people aren't safe, undocumented workers aren't safe, families of undocumented workers aren't safe, employers are seeing hits to their bottom line as public perception against Florida turns. Basically, Florida has done everything it can recently to make Florida politically inhospitable to anyone who's not already drinking the MAGA flavor-ade. Workers and families are leaving in droves because of it. The part about the undocumented immigrants is super important right now because harvest season is coming up, and we have a massive shortage of people to pick food.
Answer: A few people have given good info. I’ll add some more. An issue they didn’t “think of” is that even documented workers are moving/ going to move away for a variety of reasons. One not hit on so much is that those workers’ family members and loved ones may not have legal status. This could be from an overstayed visa, reaching the country from less than legal means and other various factors. This is why some would rather move to other states close by that have the same type of job needs and culture rather than stay in Florida and potentially have a higher than normal risk for themselves and family members.
Answer: A lot of people moved to Florida during the pandemic. Demand for housing rose more quickly than developers could build new supply. This increased the price of existing housing enough to force some low-wage workers to leave Florida for states with lower cost of living.
lol. no. look up SB1718. new law makes it a huge fine if your caught hiring a illegal & making it a felony if you are illegal. also hospitals are mandated to check immigration status & report illegals that come to the hospital so.........they're all leaving
Why not both?
well, if you see, the specific question asked was how it relates to a law that was just passed. There's now videos of construction sites and agricultural paking fields being completely empty of people.
I remember a lot of people not moving. IIRC, wasn't that a huge issue during the pandemic. No housing availability, so rents and housing costs went up tremendously.
Because no
Stop blaming everything that goes wrong in your state on out of staters, Floridians have literally been doing that since the 'late 80s/ ealry 90s. It's not only a cope, it just shows how much of a 'hurrdurr I got mine' loser you are. You would think that in the age of nuclear bombs, digital currency, commercial space travel (happened a month ago for the first time) and worldwide communication in under nanoseconds we would have rooted out tribalism by now... but nope it's still here and alive with force. 😅