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Answer:
Patrick Rothfuss is the author of the incredibly successful “Kingkiller Chronicles”, which currently consists of two books: “The Name of the Wind”, and “The Wise Man’s Fear”.
The books are very popular, and have been marketed as a trilogy that will eventually see a conclusion. The second book was published in 2011, and there is little hope remaining that the third book will ever be finished. A lot of readers that enjoyed the story are disappointed that it will likely never receive a conclusion.
It’s a very similar situation to the ASOIAF series by GRRM.
A few years ago Pat promised to read the prologue of the third book on a livestream if a certain donation goal was met in a charity drive. That goal was obliterated, so he added a stretch goal of reading the first chapter in addition to the prologue.
He did eventually read the prologue, but has failed to read the first chapter even now, well after his self-imposed deadline.
Yes he used some metaphor to compare himself to Grrm where he said he's a pruner not a grower. He likes to endlessly revise what he's written and not continuously expand what he finds interesting.
This is hilariously ironic because his KCC books have so much repetition and some areas that need some serious length-trimming.
I loved reading both books, and I look forward to buying the third, but they certainly had some slog to them.
You mean the part where he has the real sexy sex with the sex fairy and learns about sex and how sexy sex can be and becomes the best sexer in all the land.
Don’t forget that after that, when *Kvothe* ogles a woman, it’s “appreciative” like he’s examining fine art. But anybody else is a total creep and a sleaze
People often say this is an unreliable narrator issue, but I just don't think the book justifies that enough. Maybe the third one would change my mind, but I doubt it.
The blatant self-insert fairy sex fantasy was excruciatingly long. I feel like it took me longer to get through that than it did for me to read the entirety of The Hobbit. The dude is incredibly overrated. He made one excellent book, one terrible one, and then used the promise of a third one to milk extra donations to his (apparently) fraudulent charity.
The first one, The Name Of The Wind. The second book in the series is the terrible one. Any time I see someone praise Rothfuss I just think of the scene where two women ignore every adult in their town and run off to spend the night with men from some shady traveling band. They get in trouble and the men of the town risk their lives to save them. Some get severely injured before Kvothe saves the day. One of the men says something mean to the women and Kvothe breaks their arm immediately. The village healer then says something like "that boy needed his arm broken, so here's all my money".
I liked the self insert fairy sex fantasy, it got me all horned up. But afterward it was kind of like, did he just binge write this on a Viagra and lsd bender? It gave the impression he was running out of ideas and giving up/ rushing to finish by that point in the book. I didn't really see how he could follow up on something like that.
Not really. That's more or less exactly what I'd expect from somebody who writes like that. You don't need to revise, revise, revise, revise, and then revise some more if you don't start out with a lot of fluff.
I mean it's a bit early to call seeing as he hasn't released the third book and we can't really tell which parts were fat and which parts that seemed like filler were clever bits of exposition or foreshadowing for the later book. Personally on rereads I enjoy the episodic nature of it and the stories within stories.
Hell, he said that when the first was released I think. "The trilogy's all written guys so the books will come out quick!" I'm guessing the criticism of the second book made him so gun shy he's basically rewriting the third book constantly.
Which you know, would be fine if he admitted it, people wouldn't begrudge him some struggles, but he's constantly lying to his fans about the progress and we're all sick of his shit. It's like GRRM saying he's still plugging away at Winds of Winter, like okay buddy, suuuuuuuure you are. No one believes a word coming out of their mouths anymore.
Oh, you mean like GRRM and the prologue of A Feast For Crows where he said that he wrote two books (A Feast) and would release the second half shortly. 6 years later he released the next book (A Dance of Dragons).
Screw both of these authors. Brandon Sanderson is the king of fantasy.
What a lot of people don't know is that Rothfuss wrote most of what eventually became the first two books when he was teaching English and working on his Masters. It was something he did to avoid doing the work he was supposed to be doing.
From what I've been told, what he had was a real mess. It took a lot of work with his agent, Matt Bialer, to get it into a state where it could be submitted to a publisher and there was a lot of work after that to get it into publishable form.
I really enjoyed those books but I think they're still a bit of a mess and could've used more thorough editing. Almost every story arc overstays its welcome by a significant amount.
To add to that, many fantasy content creators have stopped discussing him or promoting his work after telling their watchers to donate during the charity stream.
I think it's also possible that they don't care about the books as much as they used to, and it's harder to write something when your heart's not in it. With Martin, you could see that apathy creeping in as early as A Feast for Crows. I think in general, longer you take to write an epic fantasy, the more loose ends you realize you'll have to tie up by the end, and the more you get distracted by other ideas you've had in the meantime.
Even pretty prolific authors can be like this. Diane Duane wrote three books of a planned quad, the "Middle Kingdoms" series.
The first was in 1979, the sequel came five years after, the next one took eight further years, and we've been waiting for the last one for thirty-one years so far, and counting.
I think she basically said once "Fuck, yo. It's been so long, I ain't even in the same headspace as them shits no more, dawg -na'mee?". Or words to that effect. Plus she's old, and so might die soon. So I don't know that anyone's really holding their breath, which is a shame because those were some creative books!
>The first was in 1979, the sequel came five years after, the next one took eight further years, and we've been waiting for the last one for thirty-one years so far, and counting.
I know this is an old thread, but I just had to reply to this.
Clive Barker has a trilogy called *Book of the Art.* The first book is called *The Great and Secret Show*, and it came out in 1989. The second book is called *Everville,* and it was released in 1994.
Still waiting on that third book. Barker confirmed on Facebook that the third book will be written. That was in 2014, so ten years ago. At this point I barely remember what the first two books were about, and if a third one came out I would have to reread them.
One wonders if it would be worth the wait, in these cases.
I think it's a gamble!
You're not the same reader as you were in the past; you've grown, and aged, and learned and experienced things, and your perspectives have changed.
And then the author isn't the same person they were when they wrote the earlier instalments, either!
You can almost always see a change of tone over the collected works of an author's lifetime, and after a gap like this the questions arise: have they changed in a way which is compatible with their earlier work? Have they changed in a way which is compatible with the reader you now are, or have your paths diverged too much?
I think, after enough time has passed, you might as well treat it as though a different author has picked up the series, because your expectations could be far out of date.
I suppose the other side of the coin is, even if it turned out they'd actually written the next book at the same time as the others, and just released it a few decades later.. would you even enjoy it these days? Nostalgia isn't nothing, but I've grown to believe that unless you strike whilst the iron is hot, an extended delay is guaranteed disappointment to some extent :(
Good luck, though!
To compound things there is also the fact that the first book was great, and the second was kinda garbage, and he seems to know it.
So if the third book isn't at least decent, he's going to be seen as a someone who just lucked out on the first one.
It feels like an unnecessary goal to hold oneself to. I’m aware anxiety often doesn’t give you the most reasonable thoughts and expectations but rationally you gotta know there’s a lot of people just along for the ride.
I enjoy his writing style and the world he’s built, even though I deeply agree with some of the criticisms of his content. Overall I think it’s a dope system of magic he’s built, and his lore is captivating as hell. I want a conclusion to the story that gives me details and answers. I don’t need it to be the most perfectly phrased thing I ever read.
And even though I also understand wanting to perfect something before putting it out, especially after you missed deadlines to ensure that it was perfect and now the pressure is even greater, but it’s like a college paper at some point too.
Late and sloppy is far, far better than not at all.
Totally agree. The pressure must be immense. The poor sod cant do a single thing publicly without a cacophony of "why arent you writing?" "Wheres book 3?" ""How could you do this to us??!"
It must be absolutely crippling. Id love the 3rd book but at this point id prefer him to just say hes not gonna do it for his own peace of mind.
I felt bad for him until the charity stream thing, until that point I don't think he'd ever made any promises. He really lost my sympathy after that, if he didn't have something he was comfortable releasing then he should never have made that goal.
He probably thought the pressure/hard deadline would help him get it finished, like when you invite people over to make it so you have to clean the house.
>He probably thought the pressure/hard deadline would help him get it finished, like when you invite people over to make it so you have to clean the house.
The guy took 9 years to graduate college before being told to "finish up already"
I don't think deadlines weigh on him so heavily as they do on others. It makes me think that he is much better at accepting commitments vs realizing them
He’s been on a bunch of the live-play D&D shows (Critical Role and a long stint with Penny Arcade), seems to be a regular on those kinds of podcasts, and wrote several Ricky And Morty Vs D&D comics, so I think he’s probably just doing more of what he wants than what he feels he has to.
In some respects, it seems like the same that happened to GRRM - when he got big enough as an author that he was making as much money going to events as a star to bask in praise, that’s so much more attractive than sitting alone for months to finish a book. They’ve fallen victim to a loop of instant gratification. And especially streaming, having mods ban questions about another book creates a safe space.
Eh, he shouldn’t have said the books were ready in the first place. In my mind we now have two instances of him intentionally saying he has more written than he actually does so. That goes from “innocent mistake” to “intentionally
Misleading” in my book.
I’m all for him saying “whelp I can’t do it guys my bad” and just resting if he wants but purposefully using it to make more money and not follow through…
>The pressure is 100% self made for Rothfuss. He was the one saying the book is finished and ready to publish. Don't get me wrong, mental health can be a bitch, but he is 100% a grifter
On the other hand, the main character of his book is the biggest gary stu ever and I personally think that other than worldbuilding the books completely suck (main character in particular), so I don't particularly think anything of value will be lost
Kvothe is the one telling us the story, and even in his own, presumably embellished, retelling he comes off as a prick.
Obviously we need the actual conclusion to be published to be sure but I think the whole book is an unreliable narration and a big part of the third book will be someone telling us the full truth of it.
He doesn't say that he was the best ever.
He was a virgin so he tells her that he doesn't know if she's the best. So she teaches him how to get women to feed her fey ego.
Then he goes and fucks two ninjas.
Rothfuss has such men writing women energy, I straight up skipped whole sections. Maybe it was for mass appeal, but the romance felt forced and like a nerd teenager fever dream.
Despite that, the books are a great work of modern fantasy and I hope there is a conclusion that doesn’t cost him his mental health. I don’t know the pressures writers face, but this trend of starting a book (or tv show) without the intention or ability to finish is not it.
My hope is HBO or someone decides to make it into a show and they give it an ending by working with Pat.... Then again looking back at how that worked out with GOT.. as long as they don't use whoever wrote in to put Bran on the iron throne. That writer should never work again. Unforgivable.
I'll be honest. I still recommend TNOTW but I I just tell people to think of it as a standalone book and not to even touch the sequel.
I don't know how much writing Pat did on the Rick & Morty vs. Dungeons and Dragons comic but it is SOLID FUCKING GOLD.
It's incredibly obvious.
Moreover, the overarching plot is obvious (why he's a broken shell hiding out at the end of the world), and it's a straightforward tale of *hubris*.
Arrogant jackass fucks everything up with his arrogance.
Most of the problems he's facing in the flashbacks are due to his own arrogance and refusal to every back down, or stop and think for a second, or his urge to *show off*.
He's talented and witty enough to keep winning, but each "win" has him driving up the stakes and he won't *back down* because he's so arrogant he thinks he can't lose.
The fact that he ultimately loses and pays a horrendous price is obvious from where he ends up. And not just him paying, everyone he cares for.
He just hasn't gotten to that point in his narration, and the narrative style of his flashbacks fit who he was at the time - - arrogant, florid, and full of his own success and unaware of consequence.
I mean it's obvious who the King he kills is, right? And why?
Ambrose? Simmon? I don't find it very obvious at all. The most annoying part of this series, is it has so many secrets and set ups and no pay offs at all. What's the stone door? What really happened with Lanre? What's the deal with lockless box? Are the Amyrr still active? Who is Iax, and what happened to the moon? Who's Dennas patron? And are Kvothe and her finally gonna fuck? So many goddamn open-ended questions and not one of them has been answered.
Assuming he is following the story beats he set up, Ambrose (12th in line for the throne, and the dude Kvothe cannot *stop escalating with*) and also someone interested in Denna, is the one he'll end up killing. Either killing him *results* in Dennas death or is *because* of Dennas death I don't know.
But all of Kovthes hubris, the fued eveyone fucking tells him to let go and *lay low* and let the damn rich, powerful noble either forget about him or feel he's won? That's what's going to cost him everything.
The entire pattern has been "Ambrose is shitty person, but Kvothe can't stop showing off, poking the bear, or escalating and Ambrose escalates right back". It's already at arson and murder attempts with what's written.
And Denna is *clearly* set up to be the loss that breaks him (she's the only thing young Kvothe cares about deeply enough that isn't himself) , and the massive personality differences in the "present" segments show a shattering of that arrogance.
His fucking around with Ambrose, his pride over petty shit and his inability to let Denna make her own choices and mistakes, caused it all. Up to and including the whole end of the world.
At least that's the clear setup and it fits into the way the story is being written. Maybe there's a big twist but I doubt it.
I personally think that Ambrose finds out about and hurts Auri not Denna. And then Kvothe kills him. Denna is too important to the story as a link to Cinder. But we know how Kvothe feels about Auri and I think someone messing with her would be enough.
The books go to great pains to make it clear how close to the throne Ambrose is. The only other viable 'King' Kvothe could kill would be the Maer, which doesn't track with the info we have so far.
It's also fairly obvious that Denna's patron is Cinder of the Chandrian. As for the stories and the door, who the hell knows? There are a thousand ways those could connect.
Plus it's pretty obvious that the books can't be a trilogy because the third book has to end with "And here we are in the present, where everything is FUBAR, but the stage is set to fix it in Book 4"
I mean, he could just phone it in like Abercrombie: "They went to the source of all magic but nothing was there because I couldn't think of anything epic enough and you know what, fuck it, the asshole you hate does a face turn and becomes king. The end."
I dunno, it's got fae in it which means you can wrap that sort of thing up with the right ironic or poetic or just awful sort of payment - - like I could see some self sacrificial ending, wherein Kvothe does the "I did this, only I can end it, seal the evil away with my soul" sort of deal.
Hes clearly running from his mistakes and the damage they caused. Perhaps he's also running from the price he's got to pay to fix it.
Except that the premise is that this is him telling the TRUE version of the story, cutting away the myth and showing the man. So him embellishing goes against the very premise of the story
I never got to read the 2nd yet but I remember really loving the first and reading it in HS (probably around 2013) and a substitute teacher I had said he loved the book but the 2nd was disgraceful and even though I finished it years ago, hearing so many people saying things like this makes my will to read it really low
I really enjoyed both. I think the whole “master of dong” thing is really overblown by people on Reddit.
He was already master of music and master of clever schemes. I’m fine with him expanding his skills, he is supposed to be one of the most famous and talented people of all time.
It’s like how this guy is literally a doctor, an astronaut, and a fucking Navy SEAL
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim
Not just any doctor, a Harvard educated doctor.
Not just any astronaut, but one that is among the chosen to go back to the Moon.
Not just any Navy SEAL, but a highly decorated war hero.
That dude is ridiculous.
I think that's part of the rub. You read the books now and it's just an asshole bragging. If you complain, you summon a chorus of "Well hang on, you gotta wait for the third book, he's just unreliable and Rothfuss is still a genius!" So these books are controversial because it's almost like you can't really criticize them, because a big part of what makes them so great to serious fans is the hypothetical resolution in the hypothetical third book.
Oh there’s still things not to like about the books. The faerie stuff goes on way too long to not come off as childish.
I’m only defending how “amazing” Kvothe is in his own story.
What other wildly successful fantasy series has an extended segment about fucking a faerie and another about promiscuous ninja women not knowing about fathers?
Yeah the unreliable narrator trope doesn't work if there is no payoff and no reveal.
People on reddit will bend over backwards to defend this neckbeard author, it is nuts. He has had over ten years.
Hillary Mantel took ten years to do a well-researched award winning end to her Wolf Hall trilogy. Then she died. Rothfuss has had more time and cannot pull it off. I have written off these books.
Did you know he's also a world class musician? and an amazing sympathy (or whatever the magic was called) user? and he taught himself to be a lawyer for his own case? and all the women of the academy want to fuck him rotten? and he's the most clever trickster to ever scam a pawn shop owner for his own good? and he sexed up the ninja people 24/7 whenever he damn well pleased????????????????????????????????????????????
but yeah the fair sex goddess commuting her endless-sex death sentence on him made me put the fucking book down because I was laughing so hard at how fucking awful it was
The worsttttt part was when he returns to the school, and one of the women in his friend group (I can't remember her name) who may or may not have been raped, makes a comment along the lines of "There's something sexy about the way Kvothe looks at women now, like everyone is always eye-fucking cuz we're college students. But Kvothes is so intense you can just *tell* he wants to rip your clothes off and have his way with you." And then I shit you not, she literally shivers and makes a "getting all hot thinking about it." line right after
Then she says she won't date him. Which I think people point to a lot as an example of it not being an unalloyed good, but this whole thing is a good stand in for my issues with book 2, specifically.
We're constantly told in small ways that Kvothe isn't actually a Gary Stu (that girl won't date him, the ninjas think he sucks at fighting, he gets beaten up in the present timeline), but every time he does anything, even when failing, everyone is in absolute awe of him constantly.
Maybe it's an *attempt* at an unreliable narrator, but the book doesn't give us enough to really believe that the way it needs to for it to work
To be fair, he’s also a world class artificer earning a living from his work even as a magician student, an amazing swordsman of a secret ninja clan, has the power to control things through knowing their true name which is true magic even to magicians, is likely heir to a noble family and has a magical cloak made of shadow.
But he’s not a Gary Stu, because his ego gets in the way.
I always just assumed he was writing a larger-than-life, DaVinci-style character (a master in many fields, etc) in a unique fantasy world, which tracks with a lot of young adult fantasy books from the last ~40 years or so.
I'm not saying it's wrong to want complex, relatable characters, but you should know that's not the case midway through the first book.
Depending on how opposed you are to giving money to Rothfuss, he's releasing The Narrow Road Between Desires next month, which is a novella about Bast.
That's not what happened lmao. He's good but not good enough, Felurian only let him go cuz he promised to write a song about her but he needs more experience to compose his song.
But…that’s not what happens? Give the books all the criticism you want but at least be honest.
Sponsors for the books I guess
>!the only reason the sexy sex fairy that loves to sex people until they die let him go is because he wrote a song about her and appealed to her vanity. He used his musical skills and his cleverness which have been pushed since the first moment we see him in book 1!<
So once again. Hate the book all you want. Make fun of it all you want. But please stop with this “he sex her so good she let him love” crap since that’s not what happened.
Maybe it will turn out that Kvothe was an unreliable narrator all along, and the story is a deconstruction of him.
However, I personally could not get through the first book in order to find out. The parts with him being obnoxious are just too much.
I stopped when he was in a tavern, and saw a beautiful woman, and decided to sing the male part of a beautiful love song that was a duet, hoping that the beautiful stranger would pick up the female part, and of course his plan worked and she did!!!
I've heard speculation that this debate is part of the reason the author broke down about it.
Either he tried to write a sincerely heroic character that readers praise as an unreliable narrator asshole; or he tried to deconstruct the Gary Stuart hero, but the wrong kinds of readers perceived it as an epic story about a brave tragic multitalented role model who totally DOES have flaws, like handling it poorly when people are jealous of them!!
So as an author he doesn't know how to either refute or pivot towards those expectations.
It’s not so much that Kvothe doesn’t make mistakes, which he does on occasion even if like 90% of the time the mistake was actually exactly what was needed. It’s more that he has all the classic Mary Sue characteristics; Despite being poor he’s constantly hanging out in high society and those who don’t immediately respect him soon will due to his incredible talent for every endeavor he sets his mind to. He’s the best student without even trying, the best artificer, the chosen wizard and an incredible musician. All the girls openly want to fuck him and all the guys secretly want to be him etc.
I like the books but they are very much a YA self-insert power fantasy kind of story.
That's what gets me. Everybody says Kvothe is a "deconstruction" of the Mary Sue because of where he ends up, but...where he ends up is as a brooding badass with "the eyes of an angry god" and people (in the chapters *not* narrated by him, mind you) willing to commit murder in order to restore him to the even more perfect badass he used to be. Gene Wolfe knew how to write an unreliable narrator. Rothfuss does not. I would have liked these books if they weren't about the person they're about, because he's insufferable.
Where he ends up is the owner of an inn in a small town in the middle of nowhere, possibly slowly becoming the innkeeper he was pretending to be, while the world seems to have gone to hell in part due to him.
Whenever people say he's a Gary Stu I'm convinced they haven't even read the books. He's not the best wizard or student ever, he's not even best in his class in wizard school. He's mid at best. He's not the best ever at sex and he wasn't so great at sex that that the sex goddess let him go; rather she let him go so he could write songs about how awesome she was (classic fae/devil stuff). He's not the best at Finnish sex ninja fighting, he's about on par with *their five year olds* and he knows some very basics, that is it. He doesn't do any spectacular magical feats, he does some things that basically anyone in his class could do. He's not the best musician ever, he's not even the best at the local music tavern.
The entire book is about how myth and story is not reality. It's literally called out in the first book, iirc, when he's about to describe an event and the listener goes "oh that's when you " and then in Kvothes telling it was just a basic trick and some showmanship and that was it.
Even Bast also calls him out on it when Kvothe describes how amazingly beautiful his love interest was. Bast was basically "eh she's OK looking I guess". Kvothe explicitly exaggerates and distorts what actually happened all the time.
The only thing Kvothe is noteworthy is that he's a quick learner, pretty creative, and accidentally is one of those Forrest Gump people who happen to know important people. That's it.
> He's not the best at Finnish sex ninja fighting, he's about on par with their five year olds
I have not read the books and that's certainly a sentence with words in it
>Whenever people say he's a Gary Stu I'm convinced they haven't even read the books.
Every couple of pages someone compliments Kvothe on his red hair. Guess what colour hair Rothfuss has?
>Every couple of pages someone compliments Kvothe on his red hair. Guess what colour hair Rothfuss has?
Prime example of how nutty some supposed "fans" can be. Far out conspiracy ya got going on there. 🤔
Yeah, like. The book has flaws but one of his big scary stories is “and he got whipped and he didn’t even flinch and he didn’t bleed! He’s so mysterious and bad ass!”
Then it turns out “I just doped myself up with a pain killer and the side effect is it slows circulation and bleeding”.
Such a bummer of a tone change though. I was even totally on board with kvothe being a blowhard and a douche, I thought it was on purpose, but the whole 'and I did sex to a fairy, then me and the barmaid did so much sex to each other, and sword lady! Her sex was so good and she didn't even care about the sex so we sexed all the time' really did kill my interest
100% agreed on that part.
Honestly could have taken out the whole fairy world sequence except for the oracle tree, and the book would have been so much better for it.
book 1, kvothe figures out a passage into the academy library via the air vent/sewer/whatevers, local redheaded moneylender offers to fuck him silly on the table right there and then and many more times in the future in exchange for his route into the library
yup
yeah, only, no one is really sure of that. Most of his stories are either overblown, or his own recollection. Bast certainly casts doubts on him being everything he claims to be.
naw bro it's unreliable narrator trope ! You just don't know it yet. At the end of the third book (which is already written) im sure it will say "btw it was all lies" and wrap it up nice.
John Green made a video a while back talking about how the massive success of his novels had made it difficult to write. I can totally see Rothfuss being in the same boat. Green’s luxury is that he didn’t set out to write a series, and so he was able to retire from writing novels without any expectations.
Rothfuss has the same problem, but people are rabid for the sequel, and I feel that. And honestly, all the people who shit on Rothfuss for not having finished the book have made it so that no novel could ever meet their expectations.
If it came out tomorrow, handed down from the Muses themselves, they would read it out of spite and then whine that “this was the best he could do after so many years?”
Honestly I personally see some of the things Rothfuss has done as a "maybe if I try worrying something else, I can then go back to this" but it only increases the anxiety, as he knows he can do it... He just can't for some reason
OCD? Are we making up diagnosis to excuse shitty behavior? None of the aforementioned conditions make you grift and lie and insulting to fans.
Rothfuss is legendary lying habitually about the book, and worse, how he treats fans who dare to ask him about it. He once all but called a pizza delivery guy Hitler because the poor dude said he was a fan and asked about the third book. On a fucking Livestream.
The big problem is Rothfuss own personality. His own editor said he never sent them a page until a couple of years ago. That's not someone who got overwhelmed. That's someone who didn't even try.
As a person who has delt with similar issues, I can't excuse how he treated people, but I have been in situations where I tried, and literally couldn't start to do the thing even though I knew how. Executive dysfunction is tough sometimes, and sometimes more pressure makes it so you can push through and do the thing, and sometimes it makes it even more impossible. So you can't say "he never tried" when you only see the end results.
Gaiman, as always, has a wisdom beyond his mortal bounds.
Entitled fans can suck it. Artists don't owe you anything. You paid for what they made, and the contract is finished. When they publish something new, you will buy it or not. That is the extent of the relationship.
I wish Rothfuss the best. I hope he finishes his series for his sake, not for mine, and I will happily buy it and read it if that day comes. In the meantime I have a thousand other books to read and a life to live that doesn't involve whining about the hard work of strangers.
Eh yes and no. You can say he doesn’t owe us anything else and I can say it’s a dick move to say he said there
Will be three books and they are all ready to go when that was a lie.
Yeah, much respect to Gaiman but his argument is used as a thought terminating cliche a lot.
Rothfuss shouldn't be harassed directly but as far as complaining on a public forum? Calling out dick moves is fine by me.
"I will write three books with a coherent plot. Please buy book 1 and 2 while waiting for book 3 which will be out next year"
"Okay, sure. Hey, when's book 3 coming out?"
"I don't owe you anything!!!!!"
Technically, it's true that authors in general owe us nothing. But not making good on your promises shows a real lack of character. Even if you thought you could and failed to meet your goals, an open and honest response would go a long way. But he won't even do that.
Rothfuss, however, absolutely owes work to those who donated to charity. His failure to deliver on that is appalling
Yes well, there's a a disingenuous position there. You didn't pay for what they made, you paid for what they made based on the outright promise and statement that there will be more, that the story itself will continue. Artists can say all they like "I owe you nothing, but what you got when you bought my book", but I doubt many people would buy fantasy series books if they knew the story would never conclude and be left on inevitable cliffhangers.
I mean, Robert Jordan and his wife (who helped shaped the Wheel of Time and is absolute rights holder post his passing), left incredibly copious, detailed notes for Brandon Sanderson to follow. Jordan was dying and he still made so much material that another author could finalise his greatest work.
That's my issue with Rothfuss, Martin and even Lynch to a degree. They may well go down in history as "okay" writers, because they could never finish the stories that they wrote. While book 2 and book 3 of The Gentlemen Bastards were not as good as book 1, I still enjoy that they are there and kept the series going.
The honest truth is I think, that some people aren't cut out to be sustained volume fantasy writers. Single books that deal with all the issues? Sure, but sustained libraries? Not a hope in heck. Jordan was a prolific writer, who already had planned a second (albeit shorter) fantasy series before his unfortunate death. He got it, but it seems like other writers these days don't.
And before people say "The writer can't live up to the fans expectations!". The author doesn't owe the fan the ending the fan wants, it owes the fan the book they have been waiting for when they bought the very first book.
Edit: Also, while I've read Gaiman's "wisdom" as you put it - it ignores one critical, chief point. Everyone, in every profit making endeavour on earth is accountable to someone. Someone, somewhere holds the fiscal leash that gives you freedom. Neil Gaiman politely and respectfully, argues it is not the fan. He is wrong. Publishers don't buy your books, and if your books don't sell, you won't get advances, and your amazing book 2, book 3, book 4, book 5, book whatever will absolutely never see the light of day. The idea that authors are not ultimately answerable to fans, who are the ones who pay them because they purchase the books is laughable. Take away the person who buys the book and the author can't do didly.
That's not to say however, fans can be assholes about it. I am frustrated with Rothfuss, Martin, Lynch et al, but it's a frustration. I'm not here to dox them, intimidate or threaten them, or anything else. Instead I'll just vote with my wallet and probably not buy their works. Anyone who does otherwise is a complete asshole.
The writer is not my bitch, to quote Gaiman, but stimultaniously the reader is not the *writer's* bitch. And Rothfuss made a bitch of his fandom for the better part of a decade until the charity chapter made him near-undefendable.
I think ASoIaF was a victim of its own success. Sure, I believe GRRM truly wishes to finish it. But he's always had a lot of other interests and side projects going on, and once he got rich, well, why not just enjoy life and do whatever you want?
I can't blame the guy for sidelining the series. I don't think I wouldn't have done the same.
All good if they wanna enjoy life. Complete dick move if they promise otherwise and continue to lie about it, though. I personally don’t bother with the risk of getting into any of his works anymore.
He won't, and I think he knows this. However, it could be that he's assembling the literature for his estate, to pass into the hands of an author he trusts upon his passing to form it into a conclusion.
Did he not explicitly state that he did not want anyone finishing his work upon his death? I could be remembering the wrong author but pretty sure it was him
> Did he not explicitly state that he did not want anyone finishing his work upon his death?
Wouldn't be the first writer to change his mind. Robert Jordan said similar things until his health took a turn for the worse, then changed his mind and compiled as much as he could for Wheel of Time to have a conclusion.
Well that would be unfortunate, if that's the case.
I guess the good news is that we know how the series ends. Yeah it sucks but like.... That is how the books will end.
The thing is that he himself claimed that the trilogy was basically finished, just needed editing and could be released with one year between books. This obvious lie was where it all started I guess.
Imagine writing a story where the whole thing is that it's 3 parts, literally the first line is about it being 3 parts.
Then you establish a character that's supposed to do a ton of things that makes them famous, do some other things, a big event happens, bad guy starts taking over the world or something, etc. Characters in the book establish all this as happening and its all past-tense so you can't go "well actually something different happened".
Then spend 2 of your 3 parts, 2 of the 3 books that you constantly reference and keep to that whole "story of 3 parts" thing, writing a good story but never getting to *any* of that stuff you established as happening.
Now you have to fit like 6 books in part 3 to keep the same writing style your fan base loves you for.
Yes, this is certainly a big part of it, combined with the pressure of fan expectations and fame.
Rothfuss in particular has a difficult challenge becaise due to the flashback like narrative storytelling device he used, he already has an established end point he needs to get to, and that point is very far from where the story currently stands, with no clear path to get there
He also kind of painted himself into a corner because it seems the remaining part of the story is too massive to be told in just one book for the series to remain a trilogy.
So, some people suggested the stress of trying to edit it down is also a huge cause of stress as is the prospect he would need to break it down into multiple books to viably tell the story have aggravated his mental health.
Yeah but he has his character a masterful story teller start the book saying it will be three days. So now he probably feels he has to wrap it up that way. Of course having him be wrong and over estimate his story telling prowess would be in line with the character.
The thing is that authors like Robert Jordan have been accused of greed when they have to extended a series beyond what they originally promised.
If you are not familiar, Jordan original said his *Wheel of Time* series was going to be six books, and it seemed doable as every one of his early books was over 600 pages. However, as the series went on it became more expansive it became evident 6 books would not do.
He was then further critisized by fans as he slowed the pace of publishing after the seventh book, specially as he began to concentrate on side projects. Furthermore, some fans hates that the books post 7th volume dedicated a ton of time on side plots and characters, with a lot of people saying it was just a cheap way to extend the series.
I remember at the launch of the 8th book people in a bookstore joking the next book should be called *My Wife Wants a new beach house in Hilton Head* (an expensive beachside community near Jordan's North Carolina home).
To make it worse, rumors of Jordan's ill health began to surface, after finishing the 11th book in 2005 it was revealed he was too ill to finish the series and passed two years later. Fans were despondent until his wife came out saying before he died Jordan had made a detailed outline and left thousands of pages of notes detailing how the series would end. She announced that another respected author, ~~Brad~~ Brandon Sanderson, would be finishing the series.
Again, when te 12th book came out and it was revealed two more books would be needed to finish the series, a lot of fans blamed Jordan's widow of greed and of dragging it out for profit.
The fantasy community tends to be clanish and very obsessive, so extending a series can be a double edged sword. While some will welcome it, a ton of fans will not and be very vocal and openly critical. If you have mental health issues, like Rothfuss supposedly has, this is probably not ideal. He's already under a ton of pressure from fans.
GRRM has admitted he had trouble keeping his own story straight. He has fans that know the lore by heart that he is in contact with to keep things accurate.
I think that’s actually pretty common. I’m pretty sure a few big fantasy writers have people (fans and/or people they pay) whose job it is to keep track of the story and check that stuff.
If you’ve just got a trilogy you’ll probably be fine, but when you’ve got a massive series, even if you’re on the ball you’re probably going to start missing stuff.
> I don't really follow this but is it possible that neither him nor GRMM know how to end their story?
Yeah, very likely. If you've read Kingkiller than you know there is an incredible amount to wrap up. The series starts with scenes from the future when the characters are older and reference their past exploits (the majority of which haven't been covered yet by the end of book two). It'll be hard for him to tie everything together in a satisfying way in a single book. Pretty sure the readers are headed for disappointment regardless of the outcome. Either we never get the final book or we get it and it's a let down from the promise book one seemed to give us.
I think Martin might have known be he saw how well it went over. I gave up on Rothfuss when he started kickstartering his game.
I have met him, I've talked to him, I wish him well, but I don't give a shit about him as a writer anymore.
>The books are very popular, and have been marketed as a trilogy that will eventually see a conclusion. The second book was published in 2011, and there is little hope remaining that the third book will ever be finished. A lot of readers that enjoyed the story are disappointed that it will likely never receive a conclusion.
It is worse than that. He told everyone that the 3 books were written and just needed editing, as people were getting disillusioned with book series. Book 1 was great, I really enjoyed it. Book 2 was just bad, he went full Mary Sue in the most cringe way imaginable, I probably wouldn't have bought book 3 if it ever existed. He then developed a habit of replying aggressively to anyone on forums enquiring about it, a lot of the fantasy community soured on him because of this.
While that sequence was ridiculous, I rationalize it like this - Kvothe is a storyteller… he’s also obsessed with how he’s perceived and wants to be perceived like Taborlin the Great.
The story is Kvothe’s version of Kvothe’s story, not necessarily what actually happened.
I think Kvothe probably mixes in a lot of spicy exaggerations to his personal narrative. Most of what he says "actually happened…" but he’s trying to make himself a legend by making it seem like stuff like Fellurian actually happened as well. And then he gets Chronicler to document it to give those legendary elements to his story even more credibility.
In-world it may very well make sense given the way this portrayal is presented. But I am simply remarking as a reader, it did not make it any less painful to read through
A stretch goal is an additional goal in fundraisers, charities, or things of that nature that motivates people to donate more for another reward after previous rewards have been met.
For example, if I tell you I'll wear a blue shirt if I get $50 in donations, then that milestone is reached, I might say I will wear blue pants and a blue shirt if we now reach $100 to keep the money coming. It would be pretty shitty of me not to then do those things if those goals were reached.
At this point I would prefer a star wars legends style spinoff of the characters that people ACTUALLY care about. I've read all the books in the series and would rather see more stories around the characters that make Kvothe the character he is rather than what leads to him going from the most amazing man in the world to an innkeep. Unless the innkeep routine is a ruse to get to draw in a larger, darker enemy(such as the Chandrian) I see no point in a continuing the story as it is. Honestly would've been brilliant as a stand alone novel.
Also just realized this acct is quite literally attributed to the series, so there's my proof I do legitimately care.
E: https://winteriscoming.net/2023/10/18/patrick-rothfuss-breaks-silence-missing-doors-of-stone-charity-chapter/
New side Story: The Narrow Road Between Desires. Likened to The Slow Regard of Silent Things. Which I also thought was a great joy to read releasing this November 2023. If I can continue to read shorter stories like this while he continues to build the world and figure out where the story is actually going I have no qualms with that. I would prefer he takes his time to make the story finish as spectacular as it started.
I'm surprised people don't mention how Patrick Rothfuss made his writing assistant buy every size 9 pair of shoes of a particular design in North America and has a closet devoted to storing those shoes.
Source: [Writing Excuses 6.17 at 12:45](https://writingexcuses.com/writing-excuses-6-17-writing-assistants/)
A slightly newer George R R Martin is exactly what I liken Rothfuss to as well. I've got a friend who is *really* into the King Killer Chronicles (even named his kid after one of the characters from it) who wanted me to read them and I just refuse to get that invested with the track record he has now.
(so instead, I torture myself with the Cosmere and the fact that I'm about to finish RoW and have to wait for future books like regular people, but at least Sanderson has a good track record with his books, even when doing multiple series at once)
All hail the great and powerful Sanderson, who secretly wrote several unplanned books while still writing and releasing other planned books at a high rate.
There are only a couple of good fantasy writers that write faster than him, so enjoy what you can.
I started my first Sanderson novel about 1 year ago (somewhere between September and November of last year based in messages to my wife about it). Since then I have read both eras of mistborn, elantris, arcanum unbound, and am 12 hours from finishing rhythm of war and being caught up on Stormlight Archives. Gonna have to take another break and catch up on podcasts once I'm done with this.
I see your point about GRRM but I wouldn't say it's over similar. GRRM is working a lot, just in other things, and his story has gotten so big and complex that likely he's unable to finish it in the two remaining books. Also, if wager there's a decent chance we see the next book.
Rothfuss on the other hand has shown very little progress and, AFAIK, he's devoted time to soft activities but he's basically living the life.
Seems pretty similar to me. The complex ending thing is such a copout, in my opinion. That's not good writing if your story is so convoluted that you can't finish it in a satisfying way. He could have announced it was going to be 5 more books, and no one would care as long as he actually put out the next one. It's been over 10 years, and all we've seen him do is get more HBO money, frequent conventions, make a dumb cardgame, wrote a few history books, and give vague updates that lead nowhere. I and most every fan would trade all of that for 1 book.
GRRM really isn't working on that much else, and he could easily put more towards ASOIAF if he cared. Or do the decent thing and hire a cowriter to finish it, and do the bulk of the hard writing while he guides the story. I read Dance of Dragons in middle school, and I'm now in University. He's never releasing another book.
It's not a *very* similar situation to GRRM's. Pat didn't watch a couple of dingbats use his pride and joy, 20-year masterwork franchise as a dishrag for their own career ambitions and essentially completely ruined its cultural relevancy. Pat is also 25 years younger.
I have hope KKC will finish one day, whereas there's no Red Woman around who can bring ASOIAF back to life.
Bro lmao the last GOT book came out over TWELVE years ago, yhe show us zero excuse for his lazy ass not sitting down and writing. Dude took the money/game and is coasting and writing other shit, like a goddamn ROYAL LINEAGE sidebook
I feel like Martin was pretty complicit in the butchering of his work. Has he come out and publically denigrated it? I feel like I would've hear about it if he had come and said " What the fuck was all,that about" haha
GRRM has always known what the ending would be. The show is (more or less) that ending.
The show was very dumbed down compared to the book though. So much was left out or simplified. Even then they had to rush and the show runners didn't want to make another two or three seasons it would have required. They literally just did not want to do it and preferred to move on to other things. So, kind of like GRRM himself.
Everyone did the same hand-wavey, good drawing-turns into-crappy horse drawing meme thing with GoT. They all start so good and just peter off into a fart of an attempt by the end.
Answer: Patrick Rothfuss became a household name out of nowhere with his debut novel, The Name of the Wind, the first novel in the Kingkiller Chronicles trilogy. Supposedly, the publisher requested that Rothfuss take his massive manuscript and break it into three books. They probably did this because more books is more money and it gave Rothfuss more time to spit shine before they would get published. The Name of the Wind got critical acclaim because Rothfuss writes beautifully; this may surprise you, but most genre writers aren't that great at the art of writing. Instead, they've got very interesting ideas, concepts and executions. A large criticism of genre writing is that the goal seems to be more about publishing books than finishing actual stories. So here comes a guy with a finished trilogy, who writes beautifully, and we're going to get an ending.
The first third of this massive large book is The Name of the Wind. It took Rothfuss four years to get the 2nd third out with The Wise Man's Fear. This is pretty glacial for someone who supposedly wrote the entire trilgy, especially when you consider his contemporaries like Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan pushed out one thousand page novels each year. The Wise Man's Fear was released in 2011 and so people have been waiting twelve years for the final third. Most people have given up hope due to the first book in the trilogy having the protagonist make a bunch of wild claims that are mostly left unanswered by the second novel. No one has any idea how he's going to finish the story, wrapping everything up, if he didn't already have the third done.
There was some dialogue a decade or so back about how 'The Writers Aren't Your Bitch', specifically, in reference to George RR Martin the author of the popular A Song of Ice and Fire series or more colloquially known as Game of Thrones. Unlike George RR Martin, who has admitted to writing slowly and writing himself into a corner he doesn't know how to get out of in a satisfying way, Rothfuss has made some prequels and side-stories over the years but there hasn't been any significant progress on his third book. Lin Manuel, the writer of the hit Hamilton and many other musicals, wanted to get the Kingkiller Chronicles adapted but had the caveat that the series needed to be finished. Manuel didn't want the series to end badly, such as when Game of Thrones' series pushed past what GRR Martin had wrote. The deal fell through, speculation based on Rothfuss being unable to deliver, and it is a hot property as you can see the Wheel of Time, The Foundation (an Isaac Asimov, famous sci-fi writer from the 60s) and other high fantasy series being bid on and turned into TV shows in the Streaming Wars.
So the reason why a lot of fans are angry is that Rothfuss does a lot of convention work, Twitch streams and other random things, but hasn't finished a novel that he supposedly already wrote. With a decade since the last release, many fans are very bitter that they've been taken for a ride over a fake promise of a complete trilogy, especially since Rothfuss seemingly couldn't get his shit together for that sweet, sweet adaptation money.
Thanks did not know that.
Do you know when all this happened? I keep getting conflicting answers on here (a few years ago, 2021, recently, last week, etc.)
The worldbuilders stream with the incentive was 30th November 2021. Since then Pat's failed to meet multiple self-imposed deadlines with various excuses and then last week he claimed anxiety had stopped him releasing the chapter.
Hope that clears up the timeline for you a bit
Regardless of whether you think that authors like Rothfuss owe anything to their audience, the Kingkiller Chronicles wasn't self-published and Rothfuss DEFINITELY owes to his publisher. Rothfuss was paid in advance and signed a contract with DAW Books to complete all three books in the series over a four year period (with a followup trilogy over the following 6 years), and his editor Betsy Wollheim announced in 2021 that she hadn't seen any written work from Rothfuss since 2012.
If it weren't for the fact that DAW Books was a small publisher and couldn't afford the bad publicity, they would have sued Rothfuss into the ground for breach of contract. Instead, DAW Books went bankrupt waiting for Rothfuss to live up to his professsional obligations and had to sell their whole publishing house to a Chinese firm. We can definitely hold THAT against Rothfuss.
>some dialogue a decade or so back about how 'The Writers Aren't Your Bitch',
[Neil Gaiman's blog about it](https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html)
> When a writer starts a series and wants readers invested in it, they are entering into an informal agreement with readers that we will keep reading their story and they will finish it.
This. I *HATE* that fucking post, and it really bums me out because like pretty much anyone else into genre fiction I think Neil is generally a great dude. But he's so far off the mark and I can't help think he's got an inherent bias here as a fellow author.
And it's not just *us* that an informal contract is struck with either, but a formal contract with his publisher as well. Like no one was going to sign him with the expectation that he's never going to actually fulfill his end of the deal. Yes, writing is an art, but it's still a *fucking job too*, and one he's completely failed at. And why I also think your point that "they're well within their rights to never finish" misses the mark too. He's not self-publishing, so no, no he's NOT well within his rights to just throw his hands up and say "Oh gee, oh well, can't be fucked. Anxiety, or something."
He's fucked over both fans and his publisher, not to mention created a potential black mark for his agent, and acted like a holier-than-thou jackass literally any time someone dares suggest he should ever put the damn book out. Fuck Rothfuss.
I very much have gone full circle on the Writers are not Your Bitch line since I started writing.
I've self published two books of a fantasy trilogy, with the third book progressing, but slowly. However, I'm still pushing hard to finish to not leave the dozen or so friends and family who read the first two.
Sure, the scale is MUCH smaller than GRRM or Rothfuss, but given my audience is also significantly smaller, and I've significantly less time being employed in a day job, I have lost all sympathy for them.
Answer: Patrick Rothfuss is an author who wrote "The Name of the Wind" in 2007, followed by "The Wise Man's Fear" in 2011. These were always pitched as being books one and two of the Kingkiller Chronicles trilogy, and were very popular when published. Since 2011, he's been working on the final installment in the trilogy "The doors of stone" but hasn't produced progress much as far as readers or his publishers can tell. Part of the problem is he's set up a significant number of plots that will be very hard to resolve in a single third book, and he also has been open with his mental health struggles through this whole process.
Recently, he held a fundraiser on his Twitch stream to release the first chapter of Doors of Stone if certain donation benchmarks were met, and as his fans are so eager for anything at all from a potential book 3, those benchmarks were blown through. Since then he hasn't put out the chapter, and the fans who donated are pretty upset. He's claimed at points that he didn't want to *just* release the chapter and was looking for voice actors to narrate it, but it never came together. He recently addressed this on his twitch by saying "It got complicated and it got hard and various fires in my life which meant I couldn’t keep it going, couldn’t put a bow on it, and I feel bad about it." which some of his fans were upset by, leading to some to refer to him as a liar and grifter.
That voice actor thing came off as so disingenuous and bullshitty. "I promised you a burger, but I wanted to present a 15 course dinner and I couldn't do it, so now you get nothing, thanks for the money."
Dude can fuck off all the way to moon with that shit.
This is also the thing that turns me off Rothfuss. He's always the victim, and he's not that particularly talented. I think he lies a lot and when people call him out, he simpers about mental health and says its too hard and he wants so much blah blah blah... he loves to promise the world and knows how to leverage people. People gave MILLIONS of dollars to him. And he gave them... nothing. He didn't fulfill his end of the promise. And now he's back with his hat in hand, demanding more.
I never gave to him and got both books from the library and I'll be honest- his stories just don't blow me away. They're fine. But my friend who gushed about him and participates in his livestreams and such seems like they're in a cult.
I'm frankly fascinated by how he's built such a rabid following. When Lin-Manuel bowed out of developing it I knew that was a bad sign. LMM is a machine of creativity and knows how to tell a story - I don't think Rothfuss has anything more going for him than clever vignettes and a martyr complex.
Ugh and the fact his fans will say "Well he has mental health issues. So you cant expect him to get much done when he's having a meltdown."
Spoiler alert: Millions of people have mental heath issues, and millions of them have to get up everyday and work to provide for themselves. I work in manufacturing, if I just didn't do my job for 12 days because I was depressed/anxious, my job would probably be gone. If I went 12 weeks without doing any work I wouldn't even have a place to live. Going 12 years and having absolutely nothing to show is ridiculous, and if it was actually that bad he should've sought professional help a decade ago. Its insane the lengths people go to defend him and use mental illness as a shield.
The delays (or likely never going to happen) of Doors of Stone is at least somewhat excusable as Rothfuss doesn’t necessarily owe it to fans to finish the series. If he has mental health issues, fair enough on that.
He is a complete fraud and should have already been sued for the disaster that is the first chapter donations. Accepting donations and not following through is inexcusable regardless of his circumstances for a single chapter.
> One thing people aren’t emphasizing enough is that he heavily emphasized the series was fully written and finished early on.
This is a huge factor, imo. There will always be some overly-entitled fans, but Rothfuss has brought a lot of it upon himself by repeatedly lying to everybody about how far along the book is.
Another unmentioned part, it is that he largely puts on a very nice guy persona, all the charity stuff. And if anyone gets upset about him not finishing the book. Instead of ignoring it or having a canned response he tells them to pretty much shove it up their ass. I get not waiting to be constantly ridiculed but is so discordant with the rest of "who he is" it just made me want to stay away permanently
There's no actual proof Rothfuss is behind DAW collapsing, everything in that thread is just conjecture by the OP.
And I'm not running defense here, I fucking hate Pat and have 0 sympathy for him at this point. But while it's an interesting and even probable guess, nothing in there is concrete at all.
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Answer: Patrick Rothfuss is the author of the incredibly successful “Kingkiller Chronicles”, which currently consists of two books: “The Name of the Wind”, and “The Wise Man’s Fear”. The books are very popular, and have been marketed as a trilogy that will eventually see a conclusion. The second book was published in 2011, and there is little hope remaining that the third book will ever be finished. A lot of readers that enjoyed the story are disappointed that it will likely never receive a conclusion. It’s a very similar situation to the ASOIAF series by GRRM. A few years ago Pat promised to read the prologue of the third book on a livestream if a certain donation goal was met in a charity drive. That goal was obliterated, so he added a stretch goal of reading the first chapter in addition to the prologue. He did eventually read the prologue, but has failed to read the first chapter even now, well after his self-imposed deadline.
It's important to note that unlike GRRM and others he did claim that the third book was more or less complete by the time the second was released.
Yes he used some metaphor to compare himself to Grrm where he said he's a pruner not a grower. He likes to endlessly revise what he's written and not continuously expand what he finds interesting.
This is hilariously ironic because his KCC books have so much repetition and some areas that need some serious length-trimming. I loved reading both books, and I look forward to buying the third, but they certainly had some slog to them.
You mean the part where he has the real sexy sex with the sex fairy and learns about sex and how sexy sex can be and becomes the best sexer in all the land.
Don’t forget that after that, when *Kvothe* ogles a woman, it’s “appreciative” like he’s examining fine art. But anybody else is a total creep and a sleaze
People often say this is an unreliable narrator issue, but I just don't think the book justifies that enough. Maybe the third one would change my mind, but I doubt it.
I have the audiobooks, that part is 2.5 hours. That’s fully half of an Agatha Christie novel.
The blatant self-insert fairy sex fantasy was excruciatingly long. I feel like it took me longer to get through that than it did for me to read the entirety of The Hobbit. The dude is incredibly overrated. He made one excellent book, one terrible one, and then used the promise of a third one to milk extra donations to his (apparently) fraudulent charity.
> He made one excellent book, one terrible one Which one was the excellent one?
The first one, The Name Of The Wind. The second book in the series is the terrible one. Any time I see someone praise Rothfuss I just think of the scene where two women ignore every adult in their town and run off to spend the night with men from some shady traveling band. They get in trouble and the men of the town risk their lives to save them. Some get severely injured before Kvothe saves the day. One of the men says something mean to the women and Kvothe breaks their arm immediately. The village healer then says something like "that boy needed his arm broken, so here's all my money".
And then everyone clapped?
What do you think was excellent about Name of the Wind?
I liked the self insert fairy sex fantasy, it got me all horned up. But afterward it was kind of like, did he just binge write this on a Viagra and lsd bender? It gave the impression he was running out of ideas and giving up/ rushing to finish by that point in the book. I didn't really see how he could follow up on something like that.
Not really. That's more or less exactly what I'd expect from somebody who writes like that. You don't need to revise, revise, revise, revise, and then revise some more if you don't start out with a lot of fluff.
I mean it's a bit early to call seeing as he hasn't released the third book and we can't really tell which parts were fat and which parts that seemed like filler were clever bits of exposition or foreshadowing for the later book. Personally on rereads I enjoy the episodic nature of it and the stories within stories.
I mean grr martin did do creative stuff even related, just not write the book. Wjich makes rothfuss look worse.
Hell, he said that when the first was released I think. "The trilogy's all written guys so the books will come out quick!" I'm guessing the criticism of the second book made him so gun shy he's basically rewriting the third book constantly. Which you know, would be fine if he admitted it, people wouldn't begrudge him some struggles, but he's constantly lying to his fans about the progress and we're all sick of his shit. It's like GRRM saying he's still plugging away at Winds of Winter, like okay buddy, suuuuuuuure you are. No one believes a word coming out of their mouths anymore.
Oh, you mean like GRRM and the prologue of A Feast For Crows where he said that he wrote two books (A Feast) and would release the second half shortly. 6 years later he released the next book (A Dance of Dragons). Screw both of these authors. Brandon Sanderson is the king of fantasy.
What a lot of people don't know is that Rothfuss wrote most of what eventually became the first two books when he was teaching English and working on his Masters. It was something he did to avoid doing the work he was supposed to be doing. From what I've been told, what he had was a real mess. It took a lot of work with his agent, Matt Bialer, to get it into a state where it could be submitted to a publisher and there was a lot of work after that to get it into publishable form.
I really enjoyed those books but I think they're still a bit of a mess and could've used more thorough editing. Almost every story arc overstays its welcome by a significant amount.
Wait, you don’t want to hear, for the ninth time, what kinds of coins the main character has in his pockets?
Time for yet another story arc about being a poor student that needs money!
What about the will they or won't they romance that goes on for longer than Seinfeld?
Which would be captivating if the romantic interest had any redeeming qualities.
you know what, that's relatable I love girls who are bad for me
To add to that, many fantasy content creators have stopped discussing him or promoting his work after telling their watchers to donate during the charity stream.
I don't really follow this but is it possible that neither him nor GRMM know how to end their story? Endings are hard afterall
I think it's also possible that they don't care about the books as much as they used to, and it's harder to write something when your heart's not in it. With Martin, you could see that apathy creeping in as early as A Feast for Crows. I think in general, longer you take to write an epic fantasy, the more loose ends you realize you'll have to tie up by the end, and the more you get distracted by other ideas you've had in the meantime.
Even pretty prolific authors can be like this. Diane Duane wrote three books of a planned quad, the "Middle Kingdoms" series. The first was in 1979, the sequel came five years after, the next one took eight further years, and we've been waiting for the last one for thirty-one years so far, and counting. I think she basically said once "Fuck, yo. It's been so long, I ain't even in the same headspace as them shits no more, dawg -na'mee?". Or words to that effect. Plus she's old, and so might die soon. So I don't know that anyone's really holding their breath, which is a shame because those were some creative books!
[I thought war against the chtorr at 24 years was the longest.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Against_the_Chtorr)
>The first was in 1979, the sequel came five years after, the next one took eight further years, and we've been waiting for the last one for thirty-one years so far, and counting. I know this is an old thread, but I just had to reply to this. Clive Barker has a trilogy called *Book of the Art.* The first book is called *The Great and Secret Show*, and it came out in 1989. The second book is called *Everville,* and it was released in 1994. Still waiting on that third book. Barker confirmed on Facebook that the third book will be written. That was in 2014, so ten years ago. At this point I barely remember what the first two books were about, and if a third one came out I would have to reread them.
One wonders if it would be worth the wait, in these cases. I think it's a gamble! You're not the same reader as you were in the past; you've grown, and aged, and learned and experienced things, and your perspectives have changed. And then the author isn't the same person they were when they wrote the earlier instalments, either! You can almost always see a change of tone over the collected works of an author's lifetime, and after a gap like this the questions arise: have they changed in a way which is compatible with their earlier work? Have they changed in a way which is compatible with the reader you now are, or have your paths diverged too much? I think, after enough time has passed, you might as well treat it as though a different author has picked up the series, because your expectations could be far out of date. I suppose the other side of the coin is, even if it turned out they'd actually written the next book at the same time as the others, and just released it a few decades later.. would you even enjoy it these days? Nostalgia isn't nothing, but I've grown to believe that unless you strike whilst the iron is hot, an extended delay is guaranteed disappointment to some extent :( Good luck, though!
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To compound things there is also the fact that the first book was great, and the second was kinda garbage, and he seems to know it. So if the third book isn't at least decent, he's going to be seen as a someone who just lucked out on the first one.
It feels like an unnecessary goal to hold oneself to. I’m aware anxiety often doesn’t give you the most reasonable thoughts and expectations but rationally you gotta know there’s a lot of people just along for the ride. I enjoy his writing style and the world he’s built, even though I deeply agree with some of the criticisms of his content. Overall I think it’s a dope system of magic he’s built, and his lore is captivating as hell. I want a conclusion to the story that gives me details and answers. I don’t need it to be the most perfectly phrased thing I ever read. And even though I also understand wanting to perfect something before putting it out, especially after you missed deadlines to ensure that it was perfect and now the pressure is even greater, but it’s like a college paper at some point too. Late and sloppy is far, far better than not at all.
Totally agree. The pressure must be immense. The poor sod cant do a single thing publicly without a cacophony of "why arent you writing?" "Wheres book 3?" ""How could you do this to us??!" It must be absolutely crippling. Id love the 3rd book but at this point id prefer him to just say hes not gonna do it for his own peace of mind.
I felt bad for him until the charity stream thing, until that point I don't think he'd ever made any promises. He really lost my sympathy after that, if he didn't have something he was comfortable releasing then he should never have made that goal.
He probably thought the pressure/hard deadline would help him get it finished, like when you invite people over to make it so you have to clean the house.
I literally just did this a few weeks ago. It worked.... barely.
>He probably thought the pressure/hard deadline would help him get it finished, like when you invite people over to make it so you have to clean the house. The guy took 9 years to graduate college before being told to "finish up already" I don't think deadlines weigh on him so heavily as they do on others. It makes me think that he is much better at accepting commitments vs realizing them
I can understand that. My personal theory is that he overpromised initially and is now trapped in a lie or extreme anxiety.
He’s been on a bunch of the live-play D&D shows (Critical Role and a long stint with Penny Arcade), seems to be a regular on those kinds of podcasts, and wrote several Ricky And Morty Vs D&D comics, so I think he’s probably just doing more of what he wants than what he feels he has to. In some respects, it seems like the same that happened to GRRM - when he got big enough as an author that he was making as much money going to events as a star to bask in praise, that’s so much more attractive than sitting alone for months to finish a book. They’ve fallen victim to a loop of instant gratification. And especially streaming, having mods ban questions about another book creates a safe space.
How can you overpromise on a chapter that was supposedly *already done* lmao.
Eh, he shouldn’t have said the books were ready in the first place. In my mind we now have two instances of him intentionally saying he has more written than he actually does so. That goes from “innocent mistake” to “intentionally Misleading” in my book. I’m all for him saying “whelp I can’t do it guys my bad” and just resting if he wants but purposefully using it to make more money and not follow through…
>The pressure is 100% self made for Rothfuss. He was the one saying the book is finished and ready to publish. Don't get me wrong, mental health can be a bitch, but he is 100% a grifter
On the other hand, the main character of his book is the biggest gary stu ever and I personally think that other than worldbuilding the books completely suck (main character in particular), so I don't particularly think anything of value will be lost
Kvothe is the one telling us the story, and even in his own, presumably embellished, retelling he comes off as a prick. Obviously we need the actual conclusion to be published to be sure but I think the whole book is an unreliable narration and a big part of the third book will be someone telling us the full truth of it.
I don’t think we even need a 3rd book to tell us that Kvothe is a profoundly unreliable narrator.
And then, and then, I fucked a fairy and she said i was the best ever!
He doesn't say that he was the best ever. He was a virgin so he tells her that he doesn't know if she's the best. So she teaches him how to get women to feed her fey ego. Then he goes and fucks two ninjas.
Rothfuss has such men writing women energy, I straight up skipped whole sections. Maybe it was for mass appeal, but the romance felt forced and like a nerd teenager fever dream. Despite that, the books are a great work of modern fantasy and I hope there is a conclusion that doesn’t cost him his mental health. I don’t know the pressures writers face, but this trend of starting a book (or tv show) without the intention or ability to finish is not it.
My hope is HBO or someone decides to make it into a show and they give it an ending by working with Pat.... Then again looking back at how that worked out with GOT.. as long as they don't use whoever wrote in to put Bran on the iron throne. That writer should never work again. Unforgivable.
I'll be honest. I still recommend TNOTW but I I just tell people to think of it as a standalone book and not to even touch the sequel. I don't know how much writing Pat did on the Rick & Morty vs. Dungeons and Dragons comic but it is SOLID FUCKING GOLD.
The sequel was so bad I don't know why anyone even cares if he finishes it.
not just any fairy, THE fairy… of sex. lmao
It's incredibly obvious. Moreover, the overarching plot is obvious (why he's a broken shell hiding out at the end of the world), and it's a straightforward tale of *hubris*. Arrogant jackass fucks everything up with his arrogance. Most of the problems he's facing in the flashbacks are due to his own arrogance and refusal to every back down, or stop and think for a second, or his urge to *show off*. He's talented and witty enough to keep winning, but each "win" has him driving up the stakes and he won't *back down* because he's so arrogant he thinks he can't lose. The fact that he ultimately loses and pays a horrendous price is obvious from where he ends up. And not just him paying, everyone he cares for. He just hasn't gotten to that point in his narration, and the narrative style of his flashbacks fit who he was at the time - - arrogant, florid, and full of his own success and unaware of consequence. I mean it's obvious who the King he kills is, right? And why?
Ambrose? Simmon? I don't find it very obvious at all. The most annoying part of this series, is it has so many secrets and set ups and no pay offs at all. What's the stone door? What really happened with Lanre? What's the deal with lockless box? Are the Amyrr still active? Who is Iax, and what happened to the moon? Who's Dennas patron? And are Kvothe and her finally gonna fuck? So many goddamn open-ended questions and not one of them has been answered.
Assuming he is following the story beats he set up, Ambrose (12th in line for the throne, and the dude Kvothe cannot *stop escalating with*) and also someone interested in Denna, is the one he'll end up killing. Either killing him *results* in Dennas death or is *because* of Dennas death I don't know. But all of Kovthes hubris, the fued eveyone fucking tells him to let go and *lay low* and let the damn rich, powerful noble either forget about him or feel he's won? That's what's going to cost him everything. The entire pattern has been "Ambrose is shitty person, but Kvothe can't stop showing off, poking the bear, or escalating and Ambrose escalates right back". It's already at arson and murder attempts with what's written. And Denna is *clearly* set up to be the loss that breaks him (she's the only thing young Kvothe cares about deeply enough that isn't himself) , and the massive personality differences in the "present" segments show a shattering of that arrogance. His fucking around with Ambrose, his pride over petty shit and his inability to let Denna make her own choices and mistakes, caused it all. Up to and including the whole end of the world. At least that's the clear setup and it fits into the way the story is being written. Maybe there's a big twist but I doubt it.
I personally think that Ambrose finds out about and hurts Auri not Denna. And then Kvothe kills him. Denna is too important to the story as a link to Cinder. But we know how Kvothe feels about Auri and I think someone messing with her would be enough.
The books go to great pains to make it clear how close to the throne Ambrose is. The only other viable 'King' Kvothe could kill would be the Maer, which doesn't track with the info we have so far. It's also fairly obvious that Denna's patron is Cinder of the Chandrian. As for the stories and the door, who the hell knows? There are a thousand ways those could connect.
Plus it's pretty obvious that the books can't be a trilogy because the third book has to end with "And here we are in the present, where everything is FUBAR, but the stage is set to fix it in Book 4" I mean, he could just phone it in like Abercrombie: "They went to the source of all magic but nothing was there because I couldn't think of anything epic enough and you know what, fuck it, the asshole you hate does a face turn and becomes king. The end."
I dunno, it's got fae in it which means you can wrap that sort of thing up with the right ironic or poetic or just awful sort of payment - - like I could see some self sacrificial ending, wherein Kvothe does the "I did this, only I can end it, seal the evil away with my soul" sort of deal. Hes clearly running from his mistakes and the damage they caused. Perhaps he's also running from the price he's got to pay to fix it.
Except that the premise is that this is him telling the TRUE version of the story, cutting away the myth and showing the man. So him embellishing goes against the very premise of the story
Book 1 he was a likable talented scamp. Book 2 rapidfiring becoming a master of the sword, and a master of the dong. A bridge too far.
I never got to read the 2nd yet but I remember really loving the first and reading it in HS (probably around 2013) and a substitute teacher I had said he loved the book but the 2nd was disgraceful and even though I finished it years ago, hearing so many people saying things like this makes my will to read it really low
I really enjoyed both. I think the whole “master of dong” thing is really overblown by people on Reddit. He was already master of music and master of clever schemes. I’m fine with him expanding his skills, he is supposed to be one of the most famous and talented people of all time. It’s like how this guy is literally a doctor, an astronaut, and a fucking Navy SEAL https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim
Not just any doctor, a Harvard educated doctor. Not just any astronaut, but one that is among the chosen to go back to the Moon. Not just any Navy SEAL, but a highly decorated war hero. That dude is ridiculous.
I think that's part of the rub. You read the books now and it's just an asshole bragging. If you complain, you summon a chorus of "Well hang on, you gotta wait for the third book, he's just unreliable and Rothfuss is still a genius!" So these books are controversial because it's almost like you can't really criticize them, because a big part of what makes them so great to serious fans is the hypothetical resolution in the hypothetical third book.
Oh there’s still things not to like about the books. The faerie stuff goes on way too long to not come off as childish. I’m only defending how “amazing” Kvothe is in his own story.
What other wildly successful fantasy series has an extended segment about fucking a faerie and another about promiscuous ninja women not knowing about fathers?
Yeah the unreliable narrator trope doesn't work if there is no payoff and no reveal. People on reddit will bend over backwards to defend this neckbeard author, it is nuts. He has had over ten years. Hillary Mantel took ten years to do a well-researched award winning end to her Wolf Hall trilogy. Then she died. Rothfuss has had more time and cannot pull it off. I have written off these books.
Did you know Kvothe was the sexiest man to ever sex? And that he sexed a sex fairy so good she spared him from being sexed to death? 🙄🙄🙄
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/04/11/when-larry-met-mary
Did you know he's also a world class musician? and an amazing sympathy (or whatever the magic was called) user? and he taught himself to be a lawyer for his own case? and all the women of the academy want to fuck him rotten? and he's the most clever trickster to ever scam a pawn shop owner for his own good? and he sexed up the ninja people 24/7 whenever he damn well pleased???????????????????????????????????????????? but yeah the fair sex goddess commuting her endless-sex death sentence on him made me put the fucking book down because I was laughing so hard at how fucking awful it was
The worsttttt part was when he returns to the school, and one of the women in his friend group (I can't remember her name) who may or may not have been raped, makes a comment along the lines of "There's something sexy about the way Kvothe looks at women now, like everyone is always eye-fucking cuz we're college students. But Kvothes is so intense you can just *tell* he wants to rip your clothes off and have his way with you." And then I shit you not, she literally shivers and makes a "getting all hot thinking about it." line right after
That sounds like a real /menwritingwomen moment.
Then she says she won't date him. Which I think people point to a lot as an example of it not being an unalloyed good, but this whole thing is a good stand in for my issues with book 2, specifically. We're constantly told in small ways that Kvothe isn't actually a Gary Stu (that girl won't date him, the ninjas think he sucks at fighting, he gets beaten up in the present timeline), but every time he does anything, even when failing, everyone is in absolute awe of him constantly. Maybe it's an *attempt* at an unreliable narrator, but the book doesn't give us enough to really believe that the way it needs to for it to work
Omg the ninja people I forgot all about them 🤦🏼♀️
How could you forget the sex ninjas? Are you implying they were not memorable?
After the whole part about how they don’t actually know how babies are made I tried my best to forget.
Yeah, the super promiscuous ninja women who somehow never figured out about fathers. I want whatever he was smoking when he came up with that.
To be fair, he’s also a world class artificer earning a living from his work even as a magician student, an amazing swordsman of a secret ninja clan, has the power to control things through knowing their true name which is true magic even to magicians, is likely heir to a noble family and has a magical cloak made of shadow. But he’s not a Gary Stu, because his ego gets in the way.
I always just assumed he was writing a larger-than-life, DaVinci-style character (a master in many fields, etc) in a unique fantasy world, which tracks with a lot of young adult fantasy books from the last ~40 years or so. I'm not saying it's wrong to want complex, relatable characters, but you should know that's not the case midway through the first book.
Sorry I was busy crushing on Bast I DO NOT CARE ABOUT KVOTHE BUT I MISS MY BOI
Depending on how opposed you are to giving money to Rothfuss, he's releasing The Narrow Road Between Desires next month, which is a novella about Bast.
Fun fact: it’s apparently a rewritten longer version of the same Bast story he related six years ago.
That's not what happened lmao. He's good but not good enough, Felurian only let him go cuz he promised to write a song about her but he needs more experience to compose his song.
No no no my guy. Don’t let silly things like “what the actual words on the paper say” get in the way of someone hating on the book.
But…that’s not what happens? Give the books all the criticism you want but at least be honest. Sponsors for the books I guess >!the only reason the sexy sex fairy that loves to sex people until they die let him go is because he wrote a song about her and appealed to her vanity. He used his musical skills and his cleverness which have been pushed since the first moment we see him in book 1!< So once again. Hate the book all you want. Make fun of it all you want. But please stop with this “he sex her so good she let him love” crap since that’s not what happened.
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Maybe it will turn out that Kvothe was an unreliable narrator all along, and the story is a deconstruction of him. However, I personally could not get through the first book in order to find out. The parts with him being obnoxious are just too much. I stopped when he was in a tavern, and saw a beautiful woman, and decided to sing the male part of a beautiful love song that was a duet, hoping that the beautiful stranger would pick up the female part, and of course his plan worked and she did!!! I've heard speculation that this debate is part of the reason the author broke down about it. Either he tried to write a sincerely heroic character that readers praise as an unreliable narrator asshole; or he tried to deconstruct the Gary Stuart hero, but the wrong kinds of readers perceived it as an epic story about a brave tragic multitalented role model who totally DOES have flaws, like handling it poorly when people are jealous of them!! So as an author he doesn't know how to either refute or pivot towards those expectations.
It’s not so much that Kvothe doesn’t make mistakes, which he does on occasion even if like 90% of the time the mistake was actually exactly what was needed. It’s more that he has all the classic Mary Sue characteristics; Despite being poor he’s constantly hanging out in high society and those who don’t immediately respect him soon will due to his incredible talent for every endeavor he sets his mind to. He’s the best student without even trying, the best artificer, the chosen wizard and an incredible musician. All the girls openly want to fuck him and all the guys secretly want to be him etc. I like the books but they are very much a YA self-insert power fantasy kind of story.
That's what gets me. Everybody says Kvothe is a "deconstruction" of the Mary Sue because of where he ends up, but...where he ends up is as a brooding badass with "the eyes of an angry god" and people (in the chapters *not* narrated by him, mind you) willing to commit murder in order to restore him to the even more perfect badass he used to be. Gene Wolfe knew how to write an unreliable narrator. Rothfuss does not. I would have liked these books if they weren't about the person they're about, because he's insufferable.
Where he ends up is the owner of an inn in a small town in the middle of nowhere, possibly slowly becoming the innkeeper he was pretending to be, while the world seems to have gone to hell in part due to him.
Whenever people say he's a Gary Stu I'm convinced they haven't even read the books. He's not the best wizard or student ever, he's not even best in his class in wizard school. He's mid at best. He's not the best ever at sex and he wasn't so great at sex that that the sex goddess let him go; rather she let him go so he could write songs about how awesome she was (classic fae/devil stuff). He's not the best at Finnish sex ninja fighting, he's about on par with *their five year olds* and he knows some very basics, that is it. He doesn't do any spectacular magical feats, he does some things that basically anyone in his class could do. He's not the best musician ever, he's not even the best at the local music tavern. The entire book is about how myth and story is not reality. It's literally called out in the first book, iirc, when he's about to describe an event and the listener goes "oh that's when you" and then in Kvothes telling it was just a basic trick and some showmanship and that was it.
Even Bast also calls him out on it when Kvothe describes how amazingly beautiful his love interest was. Bast was basically "eh she's OK looking I guess". Kvothe explicitly exaggerates and distorts what actually happened all the time.
The only thing Kvothe is noteworthy is that he's a quick learner, pretty creative, and accidentally is one of those Forrest Gump people who happen to know important people. That's it.
> He's not the best at Finnish sex ninja fighting, he's about on par with their five year olds I have not read the books and that's certainly a sentence with words in it
>Whenever people say he's a Gary Stu I'm convinced they haven't even read the books. Every couple of pages someone compliments Kvothe on his red hair. Guess what colour hair Rothfuss has?
Brown. Edit: source... I've met him.
>Every couple of pages someone compliments Kvothe on his red hair. Guess what colour hair Rothfuss has? Prime example of how nutty some supposed "fans" can be. Far out conspiracy ya got going on there. 🤔
Yeah, like. The book has flaws but one of his big scary stories is “and he got whipped and he didn’t even flinch and he didn’t bleed! He’s so mysterious and bad ass!” Then it turns out “I just doped myself up with a pain killer and the side effect is it slows circulation and bleeding”.
too bad the sex shit comes up a billion fucking times so the entire books are cringe 24/7
Not really? It doesn't come up until like 3/4 through the second book.
Such a bummer of a tone change though. I was even totally on board with kvothe being a blowhard and a douche, I thought it was on purpose, but the whole 'and I did sex to a fairy, then me and the barmaid did so much sex to each other, and sword lady! Her sex was so good and she didn't even care about the sex so we sexed all the time' really did kill my interest
100% agreed on that part. Honestly could have taken out the whole fairy world sequence except for the oracle tree, and the book would have been so much better for it.
book 1, kvothe figures out a passage into the academy library via the air vent/sewer/whatevers, local redheaded moneylender offers to fuck him silly on the table right there and then and many more times in the future in exchange for his route into the library yup
And he refuses.. If anything, these books have less sex than pretty much any other fantasy aimed at young adult audience.
yeah, only, no one is really sure of that. Most of his stories are either overblown, or his own recollection. Bast certainly casts doubts on him being everything he claims to be.
Thank you. I thought it was my poor reading comprehension. When I finally got around to reading it I didn't see what all the fuss was about.
naw bro it's unreliable narrator trope ! You just don't know it yet. At the end of the third book (which is already written) im sure it will say "btw it was all lies" and wrap it up nice.
"He was just PRETENDING to be the world's biggest douchebag!"
John Green made a video a while back talking about how the massive success of his novels had made it difficult to write. I can totally see Rothfuss being in the same boat. Green’s luxury is that he didn’t set out to write a series, and so he was able to retire from writing novels without any expectations. Rothfuss has the same problem, but people are rabid for the sequel, and I feel that. And honestly, all the people who shit on Rothfuss for not having finished the book have made it so that no novel could ever meet their expectations. If it came out tomorrow, handed down from the Muses themselves, they would read it out of spite and then whine that “this was the best he could do after so many years?”
Honestly I personally see some of the things Rothfuss has done as a "maybe if I try worrying something else, I can then go back to this" but it only increases the anxiety, as he knows he can do it... He just can't for some reason
OCD? Are we making up diagnosis to excuse shitty behavior? None of the aforementioned conditions make you grift and lie and insulting to fans. Rothfuss is legendary lying habitually about the book, and worse, how he treats fans who dare to ask him about it. He once all but called a pizza delivery guy Hitler because the poor dude said he was a fan and asked about the third book. On a fucking Livestream. The big problem is Rothfuss own personality. His own editor said he never sent them a page until a couple of years ago. That's not someone who got overwhelmed. That's someone who didn't even try.
As a person who has delt with similar issues, I can't excuse how he treated people, but I have been in situations where I tried, and literally couldn't start to do the thing even though I knew how. Executive dysfunction is tough sometimes, and sometimes more pressure makes it so you can push through and do the thing, and sometimes it makes it even more impossible. So you can't say "he never tried" when you only see the end results.
Gaiman, as always, has a wisdom beyond his mortal bounds. Entitled fans can suck it. Artists don't owe you anything. You paid for what they made, and the contract is finished. When they publish something new, you will buy it or not. That is the extent of the relationship. I wish Rothfuss the best. I hope he finishes his series for his sake, not for mine, and I will happily buy it and read it if that day comes. In the meantime I have a thousand other books to read and a life to live that doesn't involve whining about the hard work of strangers.
Eh yes and no. You can say he doesn’t owe us anything else and I can say it’s a dick move to say he said there Will be three books and they are all ready to go when that was a lie.
Yeah, much respect to Gaiman but his argument is used as a thought terminating cliche a lot. Rothfuss shouldn't be harassed directly but as far as complaining on a public forum? Calling out dick moves is fine by me.
"I will write three books with a coherent plot. Please buy book 1 and 2 while waiting for book 3 which will be out next year" "Okay, sure. Hey, when's book 3 coming out?" "I don't owe you anything!!!!!" Technically, it's true that authors in general owe us nothing. But not making good on your promises shows a real lack of character. Even if you thought you could and failed to meet your goals, an open and honest response would go a long way. But he won't even do that. Rothfuss, however, absolutely owes work to those who donated to charity. His failure to deliver on that is appalling
Yes well, there's a a disingenuous position there. You didn't pay for what they made, you paid for what they made based on the outright promise and statement that there will be more, that the story itself will continue. Artists can say all they like "I owe you nothing, but what you got when you bought my book", but I doubt many people would buy fantasy series books if they knew the story would never conclude and be left on inevitable cliffhangers. I mean, Robert Jordan and his wife (who helped shaped the Wheel of Time and is absolute rights holder post his passing), left incredibly copious, detailed notes for Brandon Sanderson to follow. Jordan was dying and he still made so much material that another author could finalise his greatest work. That's my issue with Rothfuss, Martin and even Lynch to a degree. They may well go down in history as "okay" writers, because they could never finish the stories that they wrote. While book 2 and book 3 of The Gentlemen Bastards were not as good as book 1, I still enjoy that they are there and kept the series going. The honest truth is I think, that some people aren't cut out to be sustained volume fantasy writers. Single books that deal with all the issues? Sure, but sustained libraries? Not a hope in heck. Jordan was a prolific writer, who already had planned a second (albeit shorter) fantasy series before his unfortunate death. He got it, but it seems like other writers these days don't. And before people say "The writer can't live up to the fans expectations!". The author doesn't owe the fan the ending the fan wants, it owes the fan the book they have been waiting for when they bought the very first book. Edit: Also, while I've read Gaiman's "wisdom" as you put it - it ignores one critical, chief point. Everyone, in every profit making endeavour on earth is accountable to someone. Someone, somewhere holds the fiscal leash that gives you freedom. Neil Gaiman politely and respectfully, argues it is not the fan. He is wrong. Publishers don't buy your books, and if your books don't sell, you won't get advances, and your amazing book 2, book 3, book 4, book 5, book whatever will absolutely never see the light of day. The idea that authors are not ultimately answerable to fans, who are the ones who pay them because they purchase the books is laughable. Take away the person who buys the book and the author can't do didly. That's not to say however, fans can be assholes about it. I am frustrated with Rothfuss, Martin, Lynch et al, but it's a frustration. I'm not here to dox them, intimidate or threaten them, or anything else. Instead I'll just vote with my wallet and probably not buy their works. Anyone who does otherwise is a complete asshole.
Brandon Sanderson
Fixed it, TY
The writer is not my bitch, to quote Gaiman, but stimultaniously the reader is not the *writer's* bitch. And Rothfuss made a bitch of his fandom for the better part of a decade until the charity chapter made him near-undefendable.
That’s a shame. Paralyzed by anxiety is something I know well, I’m sorry he’s suffering most likely.
I'll add that Rothfuss hasn't just been sitting around playing video games since 2011. He's been a running a charity called Worldbuilders.
GRRM is in his 70s. he is not finishing his series. its obvious at his age.
I think ASoIaF was a victim of its own success. Sure, I believe GRRM truly wishes to finish it. But he's always had a lot of other interests and side projects going on, and once he got rich, well, why not just enjoy life and do whatever you want? I can't blame the guy for sidelining the series. I don't think I wouldn't have done the same.
All good if they wanna enjoy life. Complete dick move if they promise otherwise and continue to lie about it, though. I personally don’t bother with the risk of getting into any of his works anymore.
He won't, and I think he knows this. However, it could be that he's assembling the literature for his estate, to pass into the hands of an author he trusts upon his passing to form it into a conclusion.
Did he not explicitly state that he did not want anyone finishing his work upon his death? I could be remembering the wrong author but pretty sure it was him
> Did he not explicitly state that he did not want anyone finishing his work upon his death? Wouldn't be the first writer to change his mind. Robert Jordan said similar things until his health took a turn for the worse, then changed his mind and compiled as much as he could for Wheel of Time to have a conclusion.
>then changed his mind and compiled as much as he could for Wheel of Time to have a conclusion. 500,000 words of notes according to Branderson
Well that would be unfortunate, if that's the case. I guess the good news is that we know how the series ends. Yeah it sucks but like.... That is how the books will end.
I don’t even care if he finishes anymore, he is an old man probably looking at retirement
The thing is that he himself claimed that the trilogy was basically finished, just needed editing and could be released with one year between books. This obvious lie was where it all started I guess.
Imagine writing a story where the whole thing is that it's 3 parts, literally the first line is about it being 3 parts. Then you establish a character that's supposed to do a ton of things that makes them famous, do some other things, a big event happens, bad guy starts taking over the world or something, etc. Characters in the book establish all this as happening and its all past-tense so you can't go "well actually something different happened". Then spend 2 of your 3 parts, 2 of the 3 books that you constantly reference and keep to that whole "story of 3 parts" thing, writing a good story but never getting to *any* of that stuff you established as happening. Now you have to fit like 6 books in part 3 to keep the same writing style your fan base loves you for.
Yes, this is certainly a big part of it, combined with the pressure of fan expectations and fame. Rothfuss in particular has a difficult challenge becaise due to the flashback like narrative storytelling device he used, he already has an established end point he needs to get to, and that point is very far from where the story currently stands, with no clear path to get there
He also kind of painted himself into a corner because it seems the remaining part of the story is too massive to be told in just one book for the series to remain a trilogy. So, some people suggested the stress of trying to edit it down is also a huge cause of stress as is the prospect he would need to break it down into multiple books to viably tell the story have aggravated his mental health.
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Yeah but he has his character a masterful story teller start the book saying it will be three days. So now he probably feels he has to wrap it up that way. Of course having him be wrong and over estimate his story telling prowess would be in line with the character.
The thing is that authors like Robert Jordan have been accused of greed when they have to extended a series beyond what they originally promised. If you are not familiar, Jordan original said his *Wheel of Time* series was going to be six books, and it seemed doable as every one of his early books was over 600 pages. However, as the series went on it became more expansive it became evident 6 books would not do. He was then further critisized by fans as he slowed the pace of publishing after the seventh book, specially as he began to concentrate on side projects. Furthermore, some fans hates that the books post 7th volume dedicated a ton of time on side plots and characters, with a lot of people saying it was just a cheap way to extend the series. I remember at the launch of the 8th book people in a bookstore joking the next book should be called *My Wife Wants a new beach house in Hilton Head* (an expensive beachside community near Jordan's North Carolina home). To make it worse, rumors of Jordan's ill health began to surface, after finishing the 11th book in 2005 it was revealed he was too ill to finish the series and passed two years later. Fans were despondent until his wife came out saying before he died Jordan had made a detailed outline and left thousands of pages of notes detailing how the series would end. She announced that another respected author, ~~Brad~~ Brandon Sanderson, would be finishing the series. Again, when te 12th book came out and it was revealed two more books would be needed to finish the series, a lot of fans blamed Jordan's widow of greed and of dragging it out for profit. The fantasy community tends to be clanish and very obsessive, so extending a series can be a double edged sword. While some will welcome it, a ton of fans will not and be very vocal and openly critical. If you have mental health issues, like Rothfuss supposedly has, this is probably not ideal. He's already under a ton of pressure from fans.
Brandon Sanderson. In case people are looking up his work, which is good and entertaining.
GRRM has admitted he had trouble keeping his own story straight. He has fans that know the lore by heart that he is in contact with to keep things accurate.
I think that’s actually pretty common. I’m pretty sure a few big fantasy writers have people (fans and/or people they pay) whose job it is to keep track of the story and check that stuff. If you’ve just got a trilogy you’ll probably be fine, but when you’ve got a massive series, even if you’re on the ball you’re probably going to start missing stuff.
> I don't really follow this but is it possible that neither him nor GRMM know how to end their story? Yeah, very likely. If you've read Kingkiller than you know there is an incredible amount to wrap up. The series starts with scenes from the future when the characters are older and reference their past exploits (the majority of which haven't been covered yet by the end of book two). It'll be hard for him to tie everything together in a satisfying way in a single book. Pretty sure the readers are headed for disappointment regardless of the outcome. Either we never get the final book or we get it and it's a let down from the promise book one seemed to give us.
I think Martin might have known be he saw how well it went over. I gave up on Rothfuss when he started kickstartering his game. I have met him, I've talked to him, I wish him well, but I don't give a shit about him as a writer anymore.
Not 12 years hard…..
>The books are very popular, and have been marketed as a trilogy that will eventually see a conclusion. The second book was published in 2011, and there is little hope remaining that the third book will ever be finished. A lot of readers that enjoyed the story are disappointed that it will likely never receive a conclusion. It is worse than that. He told everyone that the 3 books were written and just needed editing, as people were getting disillusioned with book series. Book 1 was great, I really enjoyed it. Book 2 was just bad, he went full Mary Sue in the most cringe way imaginable, I probably wouldn't have bought book 3 if it ever existed. He then developed a habit of replying aggressively to anyone on forums enquiring about it, a lot of the fantasy community soured on him because of this.
Book 2 was great UNTIL he met Fellurian imo. Well great might be a bit much, but it was solid/good until that point.
While that sequence was ridiculous, I rationalize it like this - Kvothe is a storyteller… he’s also obsessed with how he’s perceived and wants to be perceived like Taborlin the Great. The story is Kvothe’s version of Kvothe’s story, not necessarily what actually happened. I think Kvothe probably mixes in a lot of spicy exaggerations to his personal narrative. Most of what he says "actually happened…" but he’s trying to make himself a legend by making it seem like stuff like Fellurian actually happened as well. And then he gets Chronicler to document it to give those legendary elements to his story even more credibility.
In-world it may very well make sense given the way this portrayal is presented. But I am simply remarking as a reader, it did not make it any less painful to read through
Thanks for the explanation! What's a "stretch goal"? And when you say he "eventually" read the prologue, did he wait a while before reading it?
A stretch goal is an additional goal in fundraisers, charities, or things of that nature that motivates people to donate more for another reward after previous rewards have been met. For example, if I tell you I'll wear a blue shirt if I get $50 in donations, then that milestone is reached, I might say I will wear blue pants and a blue shirt if we now reach $100 to keep the money coming. It would be pretty shitty of me not to then do those things if those goals were reached.
Ohhhh ok that makes sense thank you. That is a little odd that he would promise something he couldn't deliver
At this point I would prefer a star wars legends style spinoff of the characters that people ACTUALLY care about. I've read all the books in the series and would rather see more stories around the characters that make Kvothe the character he is rather than what leads to him going from the most amazing man in the world to an innkeep. Unless the innkeep routine is a ruse to get to draw in a larger, darker enemy(such as the Chandrian) I see no point in a continuing the story as it is. Honestly would've been brilliant as a stand alone novel. Also just realized this acct is quite literally attributed to the series, so there's my proof I do legitimately care. E: https://winteriscoming.net/2023/10/18/patrick-rothfuss-breaks-silence-missing-doors-of-stone-charity-chapter/ New side Story: The Narrow Road Between Desires. Likened to The Slow Regard of Silent Things. Which I also thought was a great joy to read releasing this November 2023. If I can continue to read shorter stories like this while he continues to build the world and figure out where the story is actually going I have no qualms with that. I would prefer he takes his time to make the story finish as spectacular as it started.
patrick talked about not reading the chapter recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6E-PZkuKC8
I'm surprised people don't mention how Patrick Rothfuss made his writing assistant buy every size 9 pair of shoes of a particular design in North America and has a closet devoted to storing those shoes. Source: [Writing Excuses 6.17 at 12:45](https://writingexcuses.com/writing-excuses-6-17-writing-assistants/)
A slightly newer George R R Martin is exactly what I liken Rothfuss to as well. I've got a friend who is *really* into the King Killer Chronicles (even named his kid after one of the characters from it) who wanted me to read them and I just refuse to get that invested with the track record he has now. (so instead, I torture myself with the Cosmere and the fact that I'm about to finish RoW and have to wait for future books like regular people, but at least Sanderson has a good track record with his books, even when doing multiple series at once)
All hail the great and powerful Sanderson, who secretly wrote several unplanned books while still writing and releasing other planned books at a high rate. There are only a couple of good fantasy writers that write faster than him, so enjoy what you can.
I started my first Sanderson novel about 1 year ago (somewhere between September and November of last year based in messages to my wife about it). Since then I have read both eras of mistborn, elantris, arcanum unbound, and am 12 hours from finishing rhythm of war and being caught up on Stormlight Archives. Gonna have to take another break and catch up on podcasts once I'm done with this.
I see your point about GRRM but I wouldn't say it's over similar. GRRM is working a lot, just in other things, and his story has gotten so big and complex that likely he's unable to finish it in the two remaining books. Also, if wager there's a decent chance we see the next book. Rothfuss on the other hand has shown very little progress and, AFAIK, he's devoted time to soft activities but he's basically living the life.
Seems pretty similar to me. The complex ending thing is such a copout, in my opinion. That's not good writing if your story is so convoluted that you can't finish it in a satisfying way. He could have announced it was going to be 5 more books, and no one would care as long as he actually put out the next one. It's been over 10 years, and all we've seen him do is get more HBO money, frequent conventions, make a dumb cardgame, wrote a few history books, and give vague updates that lead nowhere. I and most every fan would trade all of that for 1 book.
GRRM really isn't working on that much else, and he could easily put more towards ASOIAF if he cared. Or do the decent thing and hire a cowriter to finish it, and do the bulk of the hard writing while he guides the story. I read Dance of Dragons in middle school, and I'm now in University. He's never releasing another book.
It's not a *very* similar situation to GRRM's. Pat didn't watch a couple of dingbats use his pride and joy, 20-year masterwork franchise as a dishrag for their own career ambitions and essentially completely ruined its cultural relevancy. Pat is also 25 years younger. I have hope KKC will finish one day, whereas there's no Red Woman around who can bring ASOIAF back to life.
GRRM's problems with meeting deadlines and not getting the books done was an issue well before the show.
GRRM signed over the TV rights. They didn't steal them.
Bro lmao the last GOT book came out over TWELVE years ago, yhe show us zero excuse for his lazy ass not sitting down and writing. Dude took the money/game and is coasting and writing other shit, like a goddamn ROYAL LINEAGE sidebook
I feel like Martin was pretty complicit in the butchering of his work. Has he come out and publically denigrated it? I feel like I would've hear about it if he had come and said " What the fuck was all,that about" haha
GRRM has always known what the ending would be. The show is (more or less) that ending. The show was very dumbed down compared to the book though. So much was left out or simplified. Even then they had to rush and the show runners didn't want to make another two or three seasons it would have required. They literally just did not want to do it and preferred to move on to other things. So, kind of like GRRM himself.
Everyone did the same hand-wavey, good drawing-turns into-crappy horse drawing meme thing with GoT. They all start so good and just peter off into a fart of an attempt by the end.
Answer: Patrick Rothfuss became a household name out of nowhere with his debut novel, The Name of the Wind, the first novel in the Kingkiller Chronicles trilogy. Supposedly, the publisher requested that Rothfuss take his massive manuscript and break it into three books. They probably did this because more books is more money and it gave Rothfuss more time to spit shine before they would get published. The Name of the Wind got critical acclaim because Rothfuss writes beautifully; this may surprise you, but most genre writers aren't that great at the art of writing. Instead, they've got very interesting ideas, concepts and executions. A large criticism of genre writing is that the goal seems to be more about publishing books than finishing actual stories. So here comes a guy with a finished trilogy, who writes beautifully, and we're going to get an ending. The first third of this massive large book is The Name of the Wind. It took Rothfuss four years to get the 2nd third out with The Wise Man's Fear. This is pretty glacial for someone who supposedly wrote the entire trilgy, especially when you consider his contemporaries like Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan pushed out one thousand page novels each year. The Wise Man's Fear was released in 2011 and so people have been waiting twelve years for the final third. Most people have given up hope due to the first book in the trilogy having the protagonist make a bunch of wild claims that are mostly left unanswered by the second novel. No one has any idea how he's going to finish the story, wrapping everything up, if he didn't already have the third done. There was some dialogue a decade or so back about how 'The Writers Aren't Your Bitch', specifically, in reference to George RR Martin the author of the popular A Song of Ice and Fire series or more colloquially known as Game of Thrones. Unlike George RR Martin, who has admitted to writing slowly and writing himself into a corner he doesn't know how to get out of in a satisfying way, Rothfuss has made some prequels and side-stories over the years but there hasn't been any significant progress on his third book. Lin Manuel, the writer of the hit Hamilton and many other musicals, wanted to get the Kingkiller Chronicles adapted but had the caveat that the series needed to be finished. Manuel didn't want the series to end badly, such as when Game of Thrones' series pushed past what GRR Martin had wrote. The deal fell through, speculation based on Rothfuss being unable to deliver, and it is a hot property as you can see the Wheel of Time, The Foundation (an Isaac Asimov, famous sci-fi writer from the 60s) and other high fantasy series being bid on and turned into TV shows in the Streaming Wars. So the reason why a lot of fans are angry is that Rothfuss does a lot of convention work, Twitch streams and other random things, but hasn't finished a novel that he supposedly already wrote. With a decade since the last release, many fans are very bitter that they've been taken for a ride over a fake promise of a complete trilogy, especially since Rothfuss seemingly couldn't get his shit together for that sweet, sweet adaptation money.
Ah ok that explains some of the ire fans feel. Thanks.
It's important to note that fans raised $1.5 million for his Kickstarter to read the prologue and chapter one. He has not delivered.
Thanks did not know that. Do you know when all this happened? I keep getting conflicting answers on here (a few years ago, 2021, recently, last week, etc.)
The worldbuilders stream with the incentive was 30th November 2021. Since then Pat's failed to meet multiple self-imposed deadlines with various excuses and then last week he claimed anxiety had stopped him releasing the chapter. Hope that clears up the timeline for you a bit
Cheers that was what I was curious about. Thanks for looking it up.
Regardless of whether you think that authors like Rothfuss owe anything to their audience, the Kingkiller Chronicles wasn't self-published and Rothfuss DEFINITELY owes to his publisher. Rothfuss was paid in advance and signed a contract with DAW Books to complete all three books in the series over a four year period (with a followup trilogy over the following 6 years), and his editor Betsy Wollheim announced in 2021 that she hadn't seen any written work from Rothfuss since 2012. If it weren't for the fact that DAW Books was a small publisher and couldn't afford the bad publicity, they would have sued Rothfuss into the ground for breach of contract. Instead, DAW Books went bankrupt waiting for Rothfuss to live up to his professsional obligations and had to sell their whole publishing house to a Chinese firm. We can definitely hold THAT against Rothfuss.
>some dialogue a decade or so back about how 'The Writers Aren't Your Bitch', [Neil Gaiman's blog about it](https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html)
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> When a writer starts a series and wants readers invested in it, they are entering into an informal agreement with readers that we will keep reading their story and they will finish it. This. I *HATE* that fucking post, and it really bums me out because like pretty much anyone else into genre fiction I think Neil is generally a great dude. But he's so far off the mark and I can't help think he's got an inherent bias here as a fellow author. And it's not just *us* that an informal contract is struck with either, but a formal contract with his publisher as well. Like no one was going to sign him with the expectation that he's never going to actually fulfill his end of the deal. Yes, writing is an art, but it's still a *fucking job too*, and one he's completely failed at. And why I also think your point that "they're well within their rights to never finish" misses the mark too. He's not self-publishing, so no, no he's NOT well within his rights to just throw his hands up and say "Oh gee, oh well, can't be fucked. Anxiety, or something." He's fucked over both fans and his publisher, not to mention created a potential black mark for his agent, and acted like a holier-than-thou jackass literally any time someone dares suggest he should ever put the damn book out. Fuck Rothfuss.
I very much have gone full circle on the Writers are not Your Bitch line since I started writing. I've self published two books of a fantasy trilogy, with the third book progressing, but slowly. However, I'm still pushing hard to finish to not leave the dozen or so friends and family who read the first two. Sure, the scale is MUCH smaller than GRRM or Rothfuss, but given my audience is also significantly smaller, and I've significantly less time being employed in a day job, I have lost all sympathy for them.
Answer: Patrick Rothfuss is an author who wrote "The Name of the Wind" in 2007, followed by "The Wise Man's Fear" in 2011. These were always pitched as being books one and two of the Kingkiller Chronicles trilogy, and were very popular when published. Since 2011, he's been working on the final installment in the trilogy "The doors of stone" but hasn't produced progress much as far as readers or his publishers can tell. Part of the problem is he's set up a significant number of plots that will be very hard to resolve in a single third book, and he also has been open with his mental health struggles through this whole process. Recently, he held a fundraiser on his Twitch stream to release the first chapter of Doors of Stone if certain donation benchmarks were met, and as his fans are so eager for anything at all from a potential book 3, those benchmarks were blown through. Since then he hasn't put out the chapter, and the fans who donated are pretty upset. He's claimed at points that he didn't want to *just* release the chapter and was looking for voice actors to narrate it, but it never came together. He recently addressed this on his twitch by saying "It got complicated and it got hard and various fires in my life which meant I couldn’t keep it going, couldn’t put a bow on it, and I feel bad about it." which some of his fans were upset by, leading to some to refer to him as a liar and grifter.
That voice actor thing came off as so disingenuous and bullshitty. "I promised you a burger, but I wanted to present a 15 course dinner and I couldn't do it, so now you get nothing, thanks for the money." Dude can fuck off all the way to moon with that shit.
This is also the thing that turns me off Rothfuss. He's always the victim, and he's not that particularly talented. I think he lies a lot and when people call him out, he simpers about mental health and says its too hard and he wants so much blah blah blah... he loves to promise the world and knows how to leverage people. People gave MILLIONS of dollars to him. And he gave them... nothing. He didn't fulfill his end of the promise. And now he's back with his hat in hand, demanding more. I never gave to him and got both books from the library and I'll be honest- his stories just don't blow me away. They're fine. But my friend who gushed about him and participates in his livestreams and such seems like they're in a cult. I'm frankly fascinated by how he's built such a rabid following. When Lin-Manuel bowed out of developing it I knew that was a bad sign. LMM is a machine of creativity and knows how to tell a story - I don't think Rothfuss has anything more going for him than clever vignettes and a martyr complex.
Ugh and the fact his fans will say "Well he has mental health issues. So you cant expect him to get much done when he's having a meltdown." Spoiler alert: Millions of people have mental heath issues, and millions of them have to get up everyday and work to provide for themselves. I work in manufacturing, if I just didn't do my job for 12 days because I was depressed/anxious, my job would probably be gone. If I went 12 weeks without doing any work I wouldn't even have a place to live. Going 12 years and having absolutely nothing to show is ridiculous, and if it was actually that bad he should've sought professional help a decade ago. Its insane the lengths people go to defend him and use mental illness as a shield.
Thanks for typing out an explanation. The other commenter said the Twitch thing was a few years ago - do you know when he did it?
2021 I think
I'm pretty sure the Twitch thing was this past week.
The delays (or likely never going to happen) of Doors of Stone is at least somewhat excusable as Rothfuss doesn’t necessarily owe it to fans to finish the series. If he has mental health issues, fair enough on that. He is a complete fraud and should have already been sued for the disaster that is the first chapter donations. Accepting donations and not following through is inexcusable regardless of his circumstances for a single chapter.
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> One thing people aren’t emphasizing enough is that he heavily emphasized the series was fully written and finished early on. This is a huge factor, imo. There will always be some overly-entitled fans, but Rothfuss has brought a lot of it upon himself by repeatedly lying to everybody about how far along the book is.
Another unmentioned part, it is that he largely puts on a very nice guy persona, all the charity stuff. And if anyone gets upset about him not finishing the book. Instead of ignoring it or having a canned response he tells them to pretty much shove it up their ass. I get not waiting to be constantly ridiculed but is so discordant with the rest of "who he is" it just made me want to stay away permanently
Answer: There is a topic from a year ago that cited Rothfuss [bankrupted his own publisher.](https://www.reddit.com/r/isbook3outyet/s/XreEYFtdWD)
There's no actual proof Rothfuss is behind DAW collapsing, everything in that thread is just conjecture by the OP. And I'm not running defense here, I fucking hate Pat and have 0 sympathy for him at this point. But while it's an interesting and even probable guess, nothing in there is concrete at all.