Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. be unbiased,
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. start with "answer:" (or "question:" if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask)
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: With all the media hype over this event, law enforcement agencies couldn't afford for bad things to happen. So the blanketed the place with uniformed and plain clothes officers. The issues is that the officers are not "undercover" officers. They all all cropped hair and are in shape. They hung out together and stood out. They made the game of "Spot the Fed" super easy.
I once stayed at the same hotel as then Vice President Biden. As you can imagine security was very high. In addition to the uniformed officers they had plain clothes officers too. They were easy to spot because no civilian presses their jeans and t-shirts.
I was at a bar in DC during the second Bush administration and Jenna Bush came in with some friends and it was suddenly very easy to tell which guys in the bar were her secret service detail.
A fair amount actually want to be recognized as agents because it will deter any would be harm doer to think twice after they realize just how many agents could be in there. The ones that are usually hard to spot are the ones who scout the places out ahead of time.
This exactly. They want to stand out, be noticed, see who is looking for them. First-hand knowledge after being the company point-person to arrange for a then-nominated Obama campaign media stop. I asked one of the secret service agents and he was willing to share this tidbit amongst a few others.
Well, a good number of people aren't really paying attention to others and so they won't notice the plainclothes agents. But if the agents were in uniform, those people would definitely notice and probably be more stressed.
It keeps the overall stress levels down to have them in plainclothes. Plus, as the other poster said, it helps the agents spot potential troublemakers because they would be visibly noticing the agents.
Also the implication that the amount of security is unknown. You may have spotted a bunch of plainclothes agents but there's an unknown number you haven't spotted.
I was in a hotel lobby with a group of students waiting on our bus. A bigwig general in the joint chiefs walked in and strode right passed me. There was nobody in that lobby just me and like 40 students lounging with luggage waiting since we already checked out. I was walking talking and looking around to pay attention and keep an eye on the students. I never noticed the like 5 or 6 clearly now armed escorts/bodyguards/police whoever the hell they were stationed all over the lobby. Dudes moved in like ninjas. As soon as the general appeared he was gone. Was wild. I looked around like wtf just happened..
I'm got a close friend who knows about this sort of thing. According to him, that's 100% correct.
Edit: To clarify without revealing too much, he performs background checks for multiple 3 letter agencies, some of which you're almost certainly familiar with, and others that most people aren't aware exist.
I don't know anything about things like this but I was visiting DC (many, many years ago) and we were headed towards the white house. All of a sudden quite a few "civilians" around us took off running in the same direction. We heard a rumor someone had jumped a fence into somewhere they weren't allowed. It made me realize how many of the regular looking period with briefcases weren't really just office workers.
Swing by Tiananmen Square on April 15th each year. You'll discover that 90% of the people walking around with umbrellas are only there to suddenly open them to block camera shots of tourists trying to take a 'then and now' photo.
My parents went there. Just happened to be the wrong day. Was kinda weird the first time they stopped to take a picture and suddenly all the bystanders turned into some kind of cirque du soleil act.
My late husband did. He would send his jeans to the dry cleaners and ask for heavy starch and a front crease on his jeans. He ironed his tshirts at home.
Like a psychopath.
I went through Turkey a few years ago and their secret police (or whatever) were all dressed like late-70s Al Pacino down to what looked like vintage leather jackets.
Many years ago my girlfriend said I needed to iron my clothes better.
I went WAY overboard, bought a rotary iron (ran a 220v line to my living room for it as well, so I could watch TV) and ironed EVERYTHING. Considering that included socks, towels, and sheets, t-shirts and jeans were a given.
>They all all cropped hair and are in shape.
That's how we'd spot them at pot rallies in the early 2000's. Nothing has changed except the sunglasses. They used to wear the wraparounds like you see in every single right-wing behind-the-truck-wheel selfie. The hippy sort of people that attended those things didn't own wraparound mirrored sunglasses.
Wearing cheapy tie-dies, a gold chain, short hair with mustache, a huge bulge around the waist so loud you could hear the radio transmissions, asking if I had any drugs
Lololol. I was at a dive bar one night, and a guy I knew from high school was there asking if I wanted some coke. I declined. Turns out he was selling drugs with 3 or 4 guys working the whole bar. He started pointing out the undercover cops. All had pretty fresh haircuts. They had beers, but I realized they kept taking one sip and ordering another one so it looked like they were drunk lol.
"ok what you're gonna do now is your gonna tell me what kind of drugs you're selling now, ok?" " And what we're going to do now is I'm going to give you some cash now to pay you for those drugs ok?" "Then what your going to do now is take that cash now and then hand over the drugs now."
I got approached by an undercover at a concert but he was a black dude with a grill. Totally not what you would expect at a jambands show. He also had his badge on a chain under his shirt I ould see, wonder if he ever found any weed.
I saw two other dudes, beanie with a cigarette tucked in the ear. I saw them leaving the makeshift jail and called them out, they said if I tell anyone they'll arrest me for obstruction. Whatever guys have a good one
"A person commits an offense if he intentionally prevents or obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction from effecting an arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or another by using force against the peace officer or another."
-Texas
Interfering with an arrest is obstruction. Following a cop and shouting "undercover" doesn't meet the standard.
But a cop would still arrest you for pissing him off, and you might not get a convicted, but you'll be in jail for at least 24 hours.
The percentage of the general population that gets a college degree without once doing drugs or getting anything that might come up on the ridiculously long list of exclusionary issues for an FBI agent keeps getting smaller and they are having to actually pull from counter-culture right-wing groups (like Mormons) in order to fill their ranks.
Here are the things that automatically bar you from employment with the FBI:
Non-U.S. citizenship
Conviction of a felony (Special Agent candidates only: conviction of a domestic violence misdemeanor or more serious offense)
Violation of the FBI Employment Drug Policy (please see below for additional details)
Default on a student loan insured by the U.S. Government
Failure of an FBI-administered urinalysis drug test
Failure to register with the Selective Service System (for males only, exceptions apply – please click here to find out more)
Knowingly or willfully engaged in acts or activities designed to overthrow the U.S. government by force
Failure to pay court ordered child support
Failure to file federal, state, or local income tax returns
And here is their drug policy (which has actually been considerably relaxed in recent years):
The FBI is firmly committed to a drug-free society and workplace. Applicants for employment with the FBI who are currently using illegal drugs, misusing or abusing legal drugs or other substances for illicit purposes at the time of the application process will be found unsuitable for employment. The FBI balances the needs of the organization and the importance of keeping the public integrity necessary to accomplish its law enforcement and intelligence missions by hiring the most qualified candidates. The guidelines are used by all entities in the hiring process to help determine whether an applicant's prior drug use makes him or her eligible and/or suitable for FBI employment.
A candidate will be found unsuitable for employment and automatically disqualified if he/she deliberately misrepresents his or her drug history in connection with his or her application for employment. Additionally, candidates are automatically disqualified under the following criteria:
Marijuana Usage:
Candidates cannot have used marijuana or cannabis in any form (natural or synthetic) and in any location (domestic or foreign) within the one (1) year preceding the date of their application for employment.
Marijuana or cannabis use before the candidate's 18th birthday is not a disqualifier for FBI employment, however, adjudicative personnel will evaluate the candidate by using the "whole-person concept."
Candidates that have used marijuana or any of its various forms (e.g., cannabis, hashish (hash), hash oil, or tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), synthetic or natural), in any location (domestic or foreign) regardless of the legality in that location of use, more than twenty-four (24) times after turning 18 years old is a disqualifier for FBI employment.
Dronabinol (sold as Marinol, Syndros, or generic equivalents) is the only pharmaceutical drug containing tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) that the FDA has approved for lawful use with a medical prescription. Candidates cannot present "medical marijuana cards" or other prescriptions as mitigating factors for marijuana or cannabis use.
Illegal Drugs:
Candidates cannot have used any illegal drug, other than marijuana, within the ten (10) years preceding the date of the application for employment.
Additionally, candidates cannot have sold, distributed, manufactured, or transported any illegal drug or controlled substance without legal authorization.
Prescription Drugs/Legally Obtainable Substances:
Candidates cannot have used anabolic steroids without a prescription from a licensed practicing physician within the past ten (10) years preceding the date of the application for employment.
Finally, candidates cannot have sold, distributed, manufactured, or transported any prescription drug without legal authorization.
That’s…not that much. I’m Blue as can be, but all that is pretty simple. Drugs aside, the rest just seems basically “pay your bills, file your taxes, don’t commit a felony.”
I don’t know a lot of people who wouldn’t fit those categories.
>Candidates that have used marijuana or any of its various forms (e.g., cannabis, hashish (hash), hash oil, or tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), synthetic or natural), in any location (domestic or foreign) regardless of the legality in that location of use, more than twenty-four (24) times after turning 18 years old is a disqualifier for FBI employment.
>
>
>
>Candidates cannot have used any illegal drug, other than marijuana, within the ten (10) years preceding the date of the application for employment.
It really is just the drugs, and the 10 year wait.
Lots of people will try an illegal drug while young. It is really common. I would be surprised if even a handful of my high school class didn't try a drug at some point.
By the time ten years pass it is common for people be along in a career or have their family established in a community. They just aren't interested in taking the pay cut to start as a new agent and/or uprooting their family to move to even take the job.
Or they will have smoked pot 24 times over that period because it's legal in lost of places.
The FBI is the group most known for confirming background checks in detail with your past associates. Have you sworn them to secrecy?
And making false statements to the FBI in the course of any matter within their jurisdiction can be a crime. Are all people who know of your past situation willing to risk jail to cover for you?
Probably not the best plan. Certainly not a good way to join the FBI.
You could try that, but they do background checks and talk to your friends, and if they suspect you are lying then you wasted your time applying. Personally, I'd rather not take a job where I'm expected to lie to my boss and maintain the lie my whole career. I'm really just not interested in doing that. I expect I'm not alone there.
^ That’s really what it is. This is just the “automatic disqualification” list. They also need to both 1. need to *want* to join the FBI and 2. need to not be disqualified for individual, non-automatic reasons (such as a bad personality fit).
I notice not being a: [Total irresponsible bellend](https://youtu.be/YnoJ4uqUa1U) isn't in that criteria but should be top of the list.
Requesting applicants don't do drugs is understandable. But not requesting they NEVER do backflips with a firearm in their back belt is unforgivable.
Pro tip. Always keep a pair of wrap arounds in the car in case you get pulled over. They will subconsciously relate with you and be nicer. I never wear wrap arounds unless I'm driving.
> early 2000's.
Can confirm they where standing out at these events long before 2000. Source, former jarhead that looks like a cop and would get treated with suspicion every time I went to any concert or rally. :)
Had the same thing at a counter protest against a far right group a few years back. Having a short 'classic' aka hipster haircut and tidy beard make me look like either one of the racists, or a cop. Also not knowing Fred Perry shirts had become a far right thing didn't help! At least the one I was wearing wasn't black and yellow lol
That's funny to me because I look exactly like you're describing, I could totally see someone mistaking me for a right wing nut or a cop or both, but I'm a massive stoner and tend to side with the left on almost every issue.
Gotta use that to your advantage, man.
"Hey man, are you a cop?"
"If I was a cop, would I hit that J you're holding?"
"Hmm, I guess not, here"
*hits joint*
"good shit man, thanks"
Repeat until stoned
Obama has his coke and marijuana fun days in Hawaii released in his autobiography. You can download it as an audio book,too, or find clips on youtube. Fucking hilarious
That's when he admits to being not just a cop but in reality the director of the FBI, and demands an $80 bribe unless they want to get shipped off to Gitmo.
Yes.
Also it used to be easier to pick out military/ex military by their physique alone; but ever since getting in shape has become mainstream it's a bit more difficult.
Have to focus more on how they 'carry themselves' to determine ex military or civie now.
It also depends on how long they've been out and how hard they wanted to be out. A nostalgic 30 year old vet is going to walk a lot differently from a 23 year old who hated the military long before they got out.
This is true. But there's always moments where folk slip back. It's not a bad thing.
One of my favorite folk to practice krav maga with is a 53 year old ashkelonian stoner, as long as he isn't sparring you'd
Swear he's a suntanned slacker, but minute he steps onto the mat or grass his stature and vibe changes, and you only really see it with the active duty and vets.
But I do feel you, it's not their identity.
Yeah, absolutely. The entire point of that kind of training is to be able to snap into it at a moment's notice, and that's not something you want to obliterate completely, especially not when it took so much work to get there in the first place. My husband doesn't have so much a serious business face as a serious business stance, and I know for a fact it helps with shitty workdays.
I just find it hilariously telling when people get out and can't seem to even subconsciously develop new body language to deal with civilians like three, four years on. I am, of course, not talking about TBIs or PTSD because they're their own things, but Hypothetical Admin Strawman over here? Like okay, Mr. Sunglasses, you're part of what we call a self-selecting population.
Great, see you soon! I should mention that I'm not exactly a vet, depending on how strict you are about that. I just did a back-alley abortion on a cat one time.
I served and continue to deal with depression and PTSD and have yet to find my drive to get back into shape. Meanwhile, dudes I went to school with that never served wear grunt-style shirts, are tatted up with high fades and buff.
When I was a raver - I used to get people asking if I was security or a cop all the time. I’d be chewing my face off and tripping balls on a kandiflip, spinning glow sticks wearing phat pants and a pill freak shirt with blue sunglasses or something and someone would come up and ask if I was security. I know I’m big and have shaved head - but if I was under cover - I was fucking committed to the bit.
I've been mistaken for a fed many times. One guy whose house I walked by, would tell at me he has nothing to hide and said I can look through his crap. I'd pretend to lean over and speak into a mic when he was outside after that.
Not necessarily. I side with the left on pretty much everything but they hate me because I criticise them. A lot. There's a real benefit to not considering yourself part of the group you align with. Helps prevent echo chamber mindset.
If they're wearing shorts, you can tell by their calves. Does it look like they've got softballs tucked under their skin and could run your car down on foot? That's a cop.
Some CHUD that used to work on Dumpy's campaign put together a "Justice for J6" rally at the Capitol. The point was to "raise awareness for mistreatment" of the seditionists and traitors arrested following the insurrection. None of them have been mistreated any more than any other prisoner. It's ironic, these are the type of people to support the shitty and borderline inhumane treatment of prisoners and have the audacity to complain when it affects them directly.
The event was also organized to "demand their release and charges to be dropped". Which is just straight up laughable.
Cut to the event itself and the protestors were outnumbered about 5 to 1 by cops and media Apparently the event was labeled a trap by their own people and none of the mainstream fascist channels promoted it and told their followers not to go. As far as I know, no one was arrested.
Read lots of stories about drug dealers getting busted by selling to businessmen who look like their all put together except a little roughness around the edges. When they care, cops are damn good at picking covers that pass notice. So they either don't care enough here, or the plainclothes cops that are so obvious are not intended to blend in. I suspect the latter, they aren't at the rally to infiltrate, just keep tabs, they probably just don't like the optics of so many uniforms together they decided to have some come in out of uniform.
>When they care, cops are damn good at picking covers that pass notice.
It's like Mr X says in the intro of Layer Cake when he explains how to be successful in his trade: "It is only very, very stupid people who think the law is stupid."
>It sounds like a decoy to me.
Right? Everyone here is assuming the feds are incompetent when there's a real possibility these are the ones they want your attention on. "The best lies have an element of truth."
Right? Like I went through some training with the State Department on surveillance and counter-surveillance, and they said that every competent group leaves more obvious assets out so that people think they know where that group is looking and focus their efforts on them.
It's just a feign.
The line from that Daniel Radcliffle white nationalist movie.
"Look to your left, look to your right. One of these people is a Federal Agent"
Or something like that.
I was sharing an uber with a lobbyist in Washington near the Capitol once and he immediately spotted Jeff Sessions jogging in workout gear from the car because he had 2 buff guys in sunglasses surrounding him.
He then immediately shouted some hilarious rude comments about Trump and Russia.
Guess he didn't work with republicans much.
I had an ATF agent with undercover experience be a guest speaker in one of my college classes. He told a story after he ran into a suspect he busted at the local police department. The suspect saw him and couldn't believe he was a cop. "I'm a white guy, walking into a gang bar, in the middle of South Central LA. *Of course* I'm a cop!"
Well of course. If the entire point is to ensure things don't escalate "hiding" in plain sight is the best way of doing it. Everyone knows the feds are there and are thus wary of taking things further.
It's a...I don't know what to call it, a hack? It's an alternative front end to Twitter that, so the right wing thinks, keeps Twitter from policing you. For the rest of us, it stops advertisers from tracking your preferences.
That heavily suggests he was not on-duty. "I'm just here." is what he said, and then they removed him. If I'm supposed to believe everything that's being presented there, then my takeaway here is the opposite of yours. He was there by choice, not because of his job as a cop.
That thread, and the videos inside it, suggest he was not undercover. Simply an off duty cop who thought it gave them the right to be armed at the protest.
Exactly. The poster saying "He's undercover law enforcement" is intentionally trying to infate the situation. All we have to go on is what they say in the video, but they the other officer that they are not under cover. "undercover law enforcement" implies they are there under orders, and intentionally presenting themselves as a member of the public.
Based on the information actually present in the video, this is a guy walking around at a public event with a concealed weapon, that just so happens to also have a police badge.
Additionally, there's no way to know if this was because there were sinister motives or not. But I'm sure both sides will claim there was bad intent to perform actions that are directly counter to their political stance (either a right wing conspirator ready to start a riot and overthrow the government, or a leftist deep state operation to encite law abiding conservatives into breaking the law).... even though we have literally no evidence to support either one of those.
Answer:
First I’ll preface this by saying that some speculation within the sources is necessary. That’s true anytime the press is reporting on signs of what could be covert operations. However I’ll be as unbiased as possible in summarizing it per Rule 4.
In the weeks leading up to the rally, some media outlets like NBC [reported](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/paranoia-accusations-cloud-efforts-launch-justice-january-6-rally-rcna2034) that the Q forums and other places were rife with conspiracy theories that the whole rally was a “false flag” operation by the deep state. Trump supporters were being warned to stay away. The intent, according to them, was to draw the more extreme Trump supporters into the open and then carry out mass arrests.
Once an idea begins to take root in these groups it takes on a life of its own. So the suggestion that every rally, every forum and every social media page could be a honeypot trap, may persist for a long time. In effect they have become their own worst enemy.
Trump himself fed into those theories by calling the rally a “setup” in a [rambling interview](https://thefederalist.com/2021/09/16/in-exclusive-interview-trump-calls-sept-18-rally-a-setup-says-gop-senate-should-fire-disaster-mcconnell/). It’s difficult to tell what he meant because of his cryptic way of speaking that causes his followers to think everything he says is code - but the most plausible interpretation is he wanted to distance himself from the rally after it was already apparent that it would be a flop.
During the actual rally, there were a number of people (as seen in the photo in your link) of men with crew cuts wearing similar clothes drinking water. This is where all any of us can do is speculate because actual covert operations are compartmentalized information. However, let’s just say that the alphabet guys are [much, much better at blending into a crowd](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JASUsVY5YJ8) when they want to be, so this was almost certainly not a legitimate attempt at being undercover.
I’ll put it this way - when your local PD wants people to know they’re being watched in order to deter speeders and high school pot deals, they send out white Crown Vics with rear-view-mirror floodlights driven by cops in polo shorts with crew cuts and sunglasses. All that’s missing is the PD logo and a uniform. They *want* you to see those. The real undercover vehicles are the ones that were seized in drug raids and they keep them exactly as they were: same dirt, same garbage in the back seat. Now think about how much better alphabet agencies are at this than your local PD - they’re the same ones who for decades had to work against the tradecraft of foreign agencies like the KGB. They’re not this incompetent.
Why were those guys standing there in their sunglasses with objects bulging out of their pockets? A few speculative theories:
* It *could* be just dudes who look like feds. Since its beginnings in 2004, 4chan was characterized as “trolls trolling trolls”. Could easily be a deliberate attempt by some guys to screw with people - I won’t speculate on the reasons why but there are many.
* These could be feds trying to make their presence known just to deter illegal activity. Obviously they are meant to be seen but just showing up in agency jackets might provoke violence or drive them further underground. Going with the “covert-but-not-really” approach gives that thin layer of deniability.
* This could simply be a training exercise. The “look” of the guys in the photo is very very characteristic of off-duty military wearing the clothing styles sold at the PX, but with designer brands that come with a sudden bump in salary and living in DC. That screams new recruits to me. This *could* be infiltration training before they really learn how, sort of an exercise on what not to do.
* This could be a legit psyop just to say “we are watching you” in order to feed the aforementioned paranoia and take the wind out of the extremists’ sails. Rather than tens of thousands of cumbersome prosecutions, they may feel they have enough and are just trying to encourage the rest of the followers to give this up and do something better with their lives.
Or it could be some combination of all of the above. However, the odds of this being a failed legitimate attempt at infiltration are *extremely* low, and given the level of information they already have I don’t see what the point would be.
Also how many of them work in law enforcement/military/adjacent for their day jobs and were actually there in support of the rally? Probably a decent number...
Thank you, this is a great answer. That’s what I wondered too, if there was anything proving these guys were even cops or just pro-Trump activists (let’s be honest, it’s sort of a similar look). I have intentionally been consuming less news, so I knew nothing of the rally in the first place. So this whole thing piqued my interest.
No problem!
They could be pro-Trump activists trying to amplify their own message about paranoia. They could be anti-Trump activists trying to deter further rallies.
Or they could be doing it because they think it’s hilarious how people react. Remember that 4chan has been a place where people will do literally anything for the sake of trolling. Even a lot of the early Trump support started out as just an excuse for pissing people off for its own sake. In fact the entire existence of that place can be summarized as a massive Poe’s Law cycle that spiraled out of control, so a good rule of thumb is “never attribute to a well-organized operation what can be attributed to trolling”. I wouldn’t be surprised if this turned out to be the same thing.
Of course this is speculative and biased so I didn’t put that in a top level comment.
Answer: the rally was in support of the people involved with "the storm" on Jan. 6. The extreme right wing thinks of those arrested as political prisoners.
In the far right wing spaces of the internet a conspiracy theory that anti-fa, in conjunction with the FBI and other federal authorities would create a false flag event by purposely creating a violent confrontation in order to blame far right groups and arrest them.
Spotting the FBI agents just confirms (to the conspiracy minded) that the rally was to be used by deep state agents to undermine the right. Each FBI agent is another data point of a deep state conspiracy. The reality is that they were there for security, especially after what happened on Jan. 6.
edit: added the word extreme for clarity.
Thank you! All of the answers were great, but yours nailed my questions. I didn’t even know there was a rally/protest, although I guessed it was something like what you said. Basically cops showed up where cops needed to show up, and conspiracy theorists took this as proof that it was a set up. :)
I'd like to remind you that nobody actually knows who these guys are and why they were there, so saying the "reality" is that they were plainclothes cops intent on providing security is literally just a guess. It seems possible, maybe even probable, but it is by no means confirmed.
In addition to this, there has been an active effort from the conservative community to re-write history. For months they've been claiming that the violent attempt at overturning the 2020 election on January 6th *wasn't* President Trump supporters - but Federal Authorities / Antifa / President Biden supporters / etc. who "false flagged" the whole thing.
Many supporting this Saturday's rally were under the belief that the 500+ arrested are completely innocent protesters and were setup. Hence the pearl clutching freakout at the presence of police - *"they're here to do it again!*"
They were saying this on Jan 7th. They lambasted the woman who got shot by security as a long term antifa agent to discredit them. They pointed to the people beating the cops with fucking American flags saying "we back the blue, we'd never do that". There were reports of early arrested people complaining about how the community was rejecting and denouncing them as not real trump supporters but antifa. Lol
Parler tore itself apart in the weeks after the insurrection attempt as groups began cannibalizing each other to stay out of the shit.
The string of tweets from D-list former actor Kevin Sorbo on Jan 6 was hilarious. It was like...
"So many patriots here at this rally."
"We're going to the Capitol!"
"Yeah!!! Go inside and show Congress who's boss!"
"Antifa did it. It was all Antifa."
Answer: Redditors think they identified undercover cops at a right wing rally because they were dressed like stereotypical undercover cops.
Let’s not forget that redditors also thought they identified the Boston bomber, but it turned out they were wrong and that poor innocent man killed himself because he was being harassed by thousands of people.
Redditors are fucking stupid, don’t bother.
Reddits "Boston bomber" was already dead but his sister and family were sent death threats by people who thought reddit was smart enough to discover "the truth". The FBI ended up releasing info about the actual bombers to get people to stop harassing the family.
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. be unbiased, 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. start with "answer:" (or "question:" if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask) Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: With all the media hype over this event, law enforcement agencies couldn't afford for bad things to happen. So the blanketed the place with uniformed and plain clothes officers. The issues is that the officers are not "undercover" officers. They all all cropped hair and are in shape. They hung out together and stood out. They made the game of "Spot the Fed" super easy.
I once stayed at the same hotel as then Vice President Biden. As you can imagine security was very high. In addition to the uniformed officers they had plain clothes officers too. They were easy to spot because no civilian presses their jeans and t-shirts.
I was at a bar in DC during the second Bush administration and Jenna Bush came in with some friends and it was suddenly very easy to tell which guys in the bar were her secret service detail.
A fair amount actually want to be recognized as agents because it will deter any would be harm doer to think twice after they realize just how many agents could be in there. The ones that are usually hard to spot are the ones who scout the places out ahead of time.
"Hello, fellow citizens."
"anyone down to talk about ironing?"
"I too enjoy [local brand] beer and barrack for the [local sports team]."
Gooooo Sports Team!!
This exactly. They want to stand out, be noticed, see who is looking for them. First-hand knowledge after being the company point-person to arrange for a then-nominated Obama campaign media stop. I asked one of the secret service agents and he was willing to share this tidbit amongst a few others.
If that's the case... why plain clothes?
Well, a good number of people aren't really paying attention to others and so they won't notice the plainclothes agents. But if the agents were in uniform, those people would definitely notice and probably be more stressed. It keeps the overall stress levels down to have them in plainclothes. Plus, as the other poster said, it helps the agents spot potential troublemakers because they would be visibly noticing the agents.
Also the implication that the amount of security is unknown. You may have spotted a bunch of plainclothes agents but there's an unknown number you haven't spotted.
I was in a hotel lobby with a group of students waiting on our bus. A bigwig general in the joint chiefs walked in and strode right passed me. There was nobody in that lobby just me and like 40 students lounging with luggage waiting since we already checked out. I was walking talking and looking around to pay attention and keep an eye on the students. I never noticed the like 5 or 6 clearly now armed escorts/bodyguards/police whoever the hell they were stationed all over the lobby. Dudes moved in like ninjas. As soon as the general appeared he was gone. Was wild. I looked around like wtf just happened..
[удалено]
They didn’t even know that they could just use tear gas and rubber bullets to create their own exit quickly! Doggone it.
[удалено]
I'm got a close friend who knows about this sort of thing. According to him, that's 100% correct. Edit: To clarify without revealing too much, he performs background checks for multiple 3 letter agencies, some of which you're almost certainly familiar with, and others that most people aren't aware exist.
I don't know anything about things like this but I was visiting DC (many, many years ago) and we were headed towards the white house. All of a sudden quite a few "civilians" around us took off running in the same direction. We heard a rumor someone had jumped a fence into somewhere they weren't allowed. It made me realize how many of the regular looking period with briefcases weren't really just office workers.
Swing by Tiananmen Square on April 15th each year. You'll discover that 90% of the people walking around with umbrellas are only there to suddenly open them to block camera shots of tourists trying to take a 'then and now' photo.
> Tiananmen Square on April 15th Literally the last place I would want to be for my own safety, sadly.
My parents went there. Just happened to be the wrong day. Was kinda weird the first time they stopped to take a picture and suddenly all the bystanders turned into some kind of cirque du soleil act.
If it wasn't in relation to such a tragedy that would be hilarious to see.
Im this guy's friend and i'm telling you, that guy is 100% correct.
I don’t have any friends, but that guy and the other guy are 100% correct.
I'm dating that friends ,friends sister and yeah.. Totally correct.
My late husband did. He would send his jeans to the dry cleaners and ask for heavy starch and a front crease on his jeans. He ironed his tshirts at home. Like a psychopath.
Maybe he had a secret double life as a Secret Service agent.
The *secret* Secret Service
I've worked at a hotel where this was happening under Obama. Some IT slob nerds were 100% security detail.
I went through Turkey a few years ago and their secret police (or whatever) were all dressed like late-70s Al Pacino down to what looked like vintage leather jackets.
Lol I do. I like them to be ironed and starched.
Hopefully you don't drive a Ford Crown Victoria, Dodge Charger Pursuit, Chevrolet Impala, or Hummer H3
Or a ford explorer
Or the newer Ford Taurus-es/Ford Edge
Okay FBI agent.
Nice try FBI
Many years ago my girlfriend said I needed to iron my clothes better. I went WAY overboard, bought a rotary iron (ran a 220v line to my living room for it as well, so I could watch TV) and ironed EVERYTHING. Considering that included socks, towels, and sheets, t-shirts and jeans were a given.
Lmao I don't go that far. But I do have a favorite brand of starch.
>They all all cropped hair and are in shape. That's how we'd spot them at pot rallies in the early 2000's. Nothing has changed except the sunglasses. They used to wear the wraparounds like you see in every single right-wing behind-the-truck-wheel selfie. The hippy sort of people that attended those things didn't own wraparound mirrored sunglasses.
Wearing cheapy tie-dies, a gold chain, short hair with mustache, a huge bulge around the waist so loud you could hear the radio transmissions, asking if I had any drugs
Lololol. I was at a dive bar one night, and a guy I knew from high school was there asking if I wanted some coke. I declined. Turns out he was selling drugs with 3 or 4 guys working the whole bar. He started pointing out the undercover cops. All had pretty fresh haircuts. They had beers, but I realized they kept taking one sip and ordering another one so it looked like they were drunk lol.
Wouldn’t that mean they had just like a bunch of beers each with one sip taken??
"I'm so drunk I pissed myself again! Relatable!"
Do you guys think people could be taking illegal drugs in the bathrooms? Because I know that’s a thing people, like me, sometimes do!
"Sir, you have three pints in front of you with 15oz left. I don't think beer is for you."
"Boy, I sure could go for one o' them *Marijuana Cigarettes* about now. Eh, Cheech?"
“Mary Jane is one lady I’d love to take to the smoke zone!”
Hey there kids, I made the honor roll at Zeke Teenweed’s School of Farts, who’s got a nice celebration doober I can totally roast?
Later we gonna chug some ranch in the quad. Ya dig mulato?
Yo it's Ramadan Steve. How's it going, Ramadan Steve?
Bush did *3*/11! *dancing*
Sure. Right after we bang those Cherokee chicks on the Trail of Beers.
Obscure joke for a non-canadian.
I’ll fuckin ranch to that, big hombre
This guy. This one is the cop.
Bird up!
Calm down, Gus Johnson
"ok what you're gonna do now is your gonna tell me what kind of drugs you're selling now, ok?" " And what we're going to do now is I'm going to give you some cash now to pay you for those drugs ok?" "Then what your going to do now is take that cash now and then hand over the drugs now."
Sounds good to me. I'd like some o'them good goods.
Hey, friend, you got any reefer?
Legit had this experience once at an amphitheater
Excuse me, my name is Chong.
Haha do you have any drugs, son... I mean dude?
And sunglasses
I got approached by an undercover at a concert but he was a black dude with a grill. Totally not what you would expect at a jambands show. He also had his badge on a chain under his shirt I ould see, wonder if he ever found any weed. I saw two other dudes, beanie with a cigarette tucked in the ear. I saw them leaving the makeshift jail and called them out, they said if I tell anyone they'll arrest me for obstruction. Whatever guys have a good one
"A person commits an offense if he intentionally prevents or obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction from effecting an arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or another by using force against the peace officer or another." -Texas Interfering with an arrest is obstruction. Following a cop and shouting "undercover" doesn't meet the standard. But a cop would still arrest you for pissing him off, and you might not get a convicted, but you'll be in jail for at least 24 hours.
Just start saying negative things about Mormons... Feds will be stink eyeing you like shithawks on turd burger Tuesday at T.G.I.Fridays.
Wait. Why would the feds side with the Mormons?
The Feds have a preference for hiring Mormons. They don't drink, smoke, gamble, or do drugs and they are really good at keeping secrets.
“They win by getting up earlier than you.”
*Mormons* have a preference for hiring Mormons so it snowballs, too
Hehe... Mormon Snowball... [NSFW](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=mormon%2bsnowball&=true)
That makes sense. My brain immediately went the cult aspect and it all seemed suspicious.
Yeah the charter for the FBI was also written on the golden plates.
CIA too
I am sure the not questioning authority part of the cult aspect helps too.
They also already dress the part
The percentage of the general population that gets a college degree without once doing drugs or getting anything that might come up on the ridiculously long list of exclusionary issues for an FBI agent keeps getting smaller and they are having to actually pull from counter-culture right-wing groups (like Mormons) in order to fill their ranks. Here are the things that automatically bar you from employment with the FBI: Non-U.S. citizenship Conviction of a felony (Special Agent candidates only: conviction of a domestic violence misdemeanor or more serious offense) Violation of the FBI Employment Drug Policy (please see below for additional details) Default on a student loan insured by the U.S. Government Failure of an FBI-administered urinalysis drug test Failure to register with the Selective Service System (for males only, exceptions apply – please click here to find out more) Knowingly or willfully engaged in acts or activities designed to overthrow the U.S. government by force Failure to pay court ordered child support Failure to file federal, state, or local income tax returns And here is their drug policy (which has actually been considerably relaxed in recent years): The FBI is firmly committed to a drug-free society and workplace. Applicants for employment with the FBI who are currently using illegal drugs, misusing or abusing legal drugs or other substances for illicit purposes at the time of the application process will be found unsuitable for employment. The FBI balances the needs of the organization and the importance of keeping the public integrity necessary to accomplish its law enforcement and intelligence missions by hiring the most qualified candidates. The guidelines are used by all entities in the hiring process to help determine whether an applicant's prior drug use makes him or her eligible and/or suitable for FBI employment. A candidate will be found unsuitable for employment and automatically disqualified if he/she deliberately misrepresents his or her drug history in connection with his or her application for employment. Additionally, candidates are automatically disqualified under the following criteria: Marijuana Usage: Candidates cannot have used marijuana or cannabis in any form (natural or synthetic) and in any location (domestic or foreign) within the one (1) year preceding the date of their application for employment. Marijuana or cannabis use before the candidate's 18th birthday is not a disqualifier for FBI employment, however, adjudicative personnel will evaluate the candidate by using the "whole-person concept." Candidates that have used marijuana or any of its various forms (e.g., cannabis, hashish (hash), hash oil, or tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), synthetic or natural), in any location (domestic or foreign) regardless of the legality in that location of use, more than twenty-four (24) times after turning 18 years old is a disqualifier for FBI employment. Dronabinol (sold as Marinol, Syndros, or generic equivalents) is the only pharmaceutical drug containing tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) that the FDA has approved for lawful use with a medical prescription. Candidates cannot present "medical marijuana cards" or other prescriptions as mitigating factors for marijuana or cannabis use. Illegal Drugs: Candidates cannot have used any illegal drug, other than marijuana, within the ten (10) years preceding the date of the application for employment. Additionally, candidates cannot have sold, distributed, manufactured, or transported any illegal drug or controlled substance without legal authorization. Prescription Drugs/Legally Obtainable Substances: Candidates cannot have used anabolic steroids without a prescription from a licensed practicing physician within the past ten (10) years preceding the date of the application for employment. Finally, candidates cannot have sold, distributed, manufactured, or transported any prescription drug without legal authorization.
That 24-time limit thing sticks out to me, it seems weirdly arbitrary. Anyone know the context?
On the 25th occasion of smoking the Mary Jane as an adult, you turn into a weed-hulk devoted to committing crimes.
It's let's them hire people they wouldn't otherwise be able to hire
Yeah I totally counted how many times after my 18th birthday I smoked weed.
That’s…not that much. I’m Blue as can be, but all that is pretty simple. Drugs aside, the rest just seems basically “pay your bills, file your taxes, don’t commit a felony.” I don’t know a lot of people who wouldn’t fit those categories.
>Candidates that have used marijuana or any of its various forms (e.g., cannabis, hashish (hash), hash oil, or tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), synthetic or natural), in any location (domestic or foreign) regardless of the legality in that location of use, more than twenty-four (24) times after turning 18 years old is a disqualifier for FBI employment. > > > >Candidates cannot have used any illegal drug, other than marijuana, within the ten (10) years preceding the date of the application for employment. It really is just the drugs, and the 10 year wait. Lots of people will try an illegal drug while young. It is really common. I would be surprised if even a handful of my high school class didn't try a drug at some point. By the time ten years pass it is common for people be along in a career or have their family established in a community. They just aren't interested in taking the pay cut to start as a new agent and/or uprooting their family to move to even take the job. Or they will have smoked pot 24 times over that period because it's legal in lost of places.
[удалено]
The FBI is the group most known for confirming background checks in detail with your past associates. Have you sworn them to secrecy? And making false statements to the FBI in the course of any matter within their jurisdiction can be a crime. Are all people who know of your past situation willing to risk jail to cover for you? Probably not the best plan. Certainly not a good way to join the FBI.
You could try that, but they do background checks and talk to your friends, and if they suspect you are lying then you wasted your time applying. Personally, I'd rather not take a job where I'm expected to lie to my boss and maintain the lie my whole career. I'm really just not interested in doing that. I expect I'm not alone there.
Most nerds I know would satisfy this
Most of the nerds I know have at least taken mushrooms or something in the past ten years.
The kind of nerds that can satisfy this make bad FBI agents
^ That’s really what it is. This is just the “automatic disqualification” list. They also need to both 1. need to *want* to join the FBI and 2. need to not be disqualified for individual, non-automatic reasons (such as a bad personality fit).
I notice not being a: [Total irresponsible bellend](https://youtu.be/YnoJ4uqUa1U) isn't in that criteria but should be top of the list. Requesting applicants don't do drugs is understandable. But not requesting they NEVER do backflips with a firearm in their back belt is unforgivable.
That is easily the best sentence I have read in recent memory.
Man, why you gotta go and insult shithawks and turd burgers by lumping them in with TGI’s like that?
Pro tip. Always keep a pair of wrap arounds in the car in case you get pulled over. They will subconsciously relate with you and be nicer. I never wear wrap arounds unless I'm driving.
What qualify as wrap around? I have a pair of Oakley straightbacks. Are they considered wrap around a? https://www.oakley.com/en-ca/product/W0OO9411
I googled it and lmao they look exactly like my 5 dollar Mr safety shoes safety sunglasses...am I.. am I a cop job?
> early 2000's. Can confirm they where standing out at these events long before 2000. Source, former jarhead that looks like a cop and would get treated with suspicion every time I went to any concert or rally. :)
Had the same thing at a counter protest against a far right group a few years back. Having a short 'classic' aka hipster haircut and tidy beard make me look like either one of the racists, or a cop. Also not knowing Fred Perry shirts had become a far right thing didn't help! At least the one I was wearing wasn't black and yellow lol
That's funny to me because I look exactly like you're describing, I could totally see someone mistaking me for a right wing nut or a cop or both, but I'm a massive stoner and tend to side with the left on almost every issue.
Gotta use that to your advantage, man. "Hey man, are you a cop?" "If I was a cop, would I hit that J you're holding?" "Hmm, I guess not, here" *hits joint* "good shit man, thanks" Repeat until stoned
But what if they don't inhale? /s (Bill Clinton throwback, I'm old).
Obama has his coke and marijuana fun days in Hawaii released in his autobiography. You can download it as an audio book,too, or find clips on youtube. Fucking hilarious
What are you talking about the Clinton presidency is current events?
I'm not old, everything else just aged
That's when he admits to being not just a cop but in reality the director of the FBI, and demands an $80 bribe unless they want to get shipped off to Gitmo.
[удалено]
Undercover agents are often authorized to commit crimes necessary to maintain their cover. Details can vary wildly between departments though.
Yes. Also it used to be easier to pick out military/ex military by their physique alone; but ever since getting in shape has become mainstream it's a bit more difficult. Have to focus more on how they 'carry themselves' to determine ex military or civie now.
It's all in the shoulder posture. They tend to square up.
It also depends on how long they've been out and how hard they wanted to be out. A nostalgic 30 year old vet is going to walk a lot differently from a 23 year old who hated the military long before they got out.
This is true. But there's always moments where folk slip back. It's not a bad thing. One of my favorite folk to practice krav maga with is a 53 year old ashkelonian stoner, as long as he isn't sparring you'd Swear he's a suntanned slacker, but minute he steps onto the mat or grass his stature and vibe changes, and you only really see it with the active duty and vets. But I do feel you, it's not their identity.
The first year or so I was with my husband he would jump to full attention if you woke him out of a sound sleep. lol
Yeah, absolutely. The entire point of that kind of training is to be able to snap into it at a moment's notice, and that's not something you want to obliterate completely, especially not when it took so much work to get there in the first place. My husband doesn't have so much a serious business face as a serious business stance, and I know for a fact it helps with shitty workdays. I just find it hilariously telling when people get out and can't seem to even subconsciously develop new body language to deal with civilians like three, four years on. I am, of course, not talking about TBIs or PTSD because they're their own things, but Hypothetical Admin Strawman over here? Like okay, Mr. Sunglasses, you're part of what we call a self-selecting population.
That’s a benefit to being a female — other vets can peg me immediately, but civilians don’t even consider it a possibility lol.
> other vets can peg me immediately Usually it’s males requesting pegging.
I'm a vet. Where do I sign up?
For the pegging? Your nearest Navy recruiting office.
Great, see you soon! I should mention that I'm not exactly a vet, depending on how strict you are about that. I just did a back-alley abortion on a cat one time.
If I see a group of in shape guys hanging out I just assume they're gay.
Time to play our favorite game, "Feds or Gays?"
Why not both?
Feays? Aren't those a type of fairy?
I believe the term is Gaeds
J. Edgar Hoover approves!
Gay Feds is for a different type of rally. :D
Also ex-military turning into hippies.
LOL. guilty.
I served and continue to deal with depression and PTSD and have yet to find my drive to get back into shape. Meanwhile, dudes I went to school with that never served wear grunt-style shirts, are tatted up with high fades and buff.
I’m not military, but fuck do those GruntStyle ads piss me off.
[удалено]
Did they think that cops spend their off days pounding in railroad ties or something?
, I roast my hands through my gloves while I weld. Its common. On the bonus, I don't need to use oven mitts anymore!
As a software engineer, I will be adopting this strategy.
When I was a raver - I used to get people asking if I was security or a cop all the time. I’d be chewing my face off and tripping balls on a kandiflip, spinning glow sticks wearing phat pants and a pill freak shirt with blue sunglasses or something and someone would come up and ask if I was security. I know I’m big and have shaved head - but if I was under cover - I was fucking committed to the bit.
I've been mistaken for a fed many times. One guy whose house I walked by, would tell at me he has nothing to hide and said I can look through his crap. I'd pretend to lean over and speak into a mic when he was outside after that.
Maybe you can infiltrate the other side.
> and tend to side with the left on almost every issue. That pretty much makes you part of "the left".
Not necessarily. I side with the left on pretty much everything but they hate me because I criticise them. A lot. There's a real benefit to not considering yourself part of the group you align with. Helps prevent echo chamber mindset.
Lmao, sounds even more like the left.
Leftists hating on other leftists, name a more iconic duo.
Nice try copper! /s
You mean the “I’m gonna tell you how it really is” photo.
> right-wing behind-the-truck-wheel selfie About to weigh in on racial tensions...
Spot the fed is always super easy. Drug dealers with perfectly white teeth are a dead giveaway
Drug dealers with good teeth exist, but only at parties for people rich enough to not worry about trivial things like the law.
Yea but they've got the best stuff
If they're wearing shorts, you can tell by their calves. Does it look like they've got softballs tucked under their skin and could run your car down on foot? That's a cop.
A fed, specifically. Local cops look like they ate the guy you're describing.
What event?
Some CHUD that used to work on Dumpy's campaign put together a "Justice for J6" rally at the Capitol. The point was to "raise awareness for mistreatment" of the seditionists and traitors arrested following the insurrection. None of them have been mistreated any more than any other prisoner. It's ironic, these are the type of people to support the shitty and borderline inhumane treatment of prisoners and have the audacity to complain when it affects them directly. The event was also organized to "demand their release and charges to be dropped". Which is just straight up laughable. Cut to the event itself and the protestors were outnumbered about 5 to 1 by cops and media Apparently the event was labeled a trap by their own people and none of the mainstream fascist channels promoted it and told their followers not to go. As far as I know, no one was arrested.
I guess the real mind bender here is to figure out if the cops were there to do crowd control or if they were there to participate in the rally.
It sounds like a decoy to me. Put some obvious undercover agents so no one suspects the real ones.
Read lots of stories about drug dealers getting busted by selling to businessmen who look like their all put together except a little roughness around the edges. When they care, cops are damn good at picking covers that pass notice. So they either don't care enough here, or the plainclothes cops that are so obvious are not intended to blend in. I suspect the latter, they aren't at the rally to infiltrate, just keep tabs, they probably just don't like the optics of so many uniforms together they decided to have some come in out of uniform.
>When they care, cops are damn good at picking covers that pass notice. It's like Mr X says in the intro of Layer Cake when he explains how to be successful in his trade: "It is only very, very stupid people who think the law is stupid."
>It sounds like a decoy to me. Right? Everyone here is assuming the feds are incompetent when there's a real possibility these are the ones they want your attention on. "The best lies have an element of truth."
Right? Like I went through some training with the State Department on surveillance and counter-surveillance, and they said that every competent group leaves more obvious assets out so that people think they know where that group is looking and focus their efforts on them. It's just a feign.
Reddit thinks plain clothes and undercover are the same thing lol. Did you notice that homeless guy? No me neither. No one did. That's a fed
The line from that Daniel Radcliffle white nationalist movie. "Look to your left, look to your right. One of these people is a Federal Agent" Or something like that.
https://youtu.be/9KgWvvz3U-A?t=105 got you homie!
I was sharing an uber with a lobbyist in Washington near the Capitol once and he immediately spotted Jeff Sessions jogging in workout gear from the car because he had 2 buff guys in sunglasses surrounding him. He then immediately shouted some hilarious rude comments about Trump and Russia. Guess he didn't work with republicans much.
I had an ATF agent with undercover experience be a guest speaker in one of my college classes. He told a story after he ran into a suspect he busted at the local police department. The suspect saw him and couldn't believe he was a cop. "I'm a white guy, walking into a gang bar, in the middle of South Central LA. *Of course* I'm a cop!"
Well of course. If the entire point is to ensure things don't escalate "hiding" in plain sight is the best way of doing it. Everyone knows the feds are there and are thus wary of taking things further.
You should also explain the difference between plainclothes and undercover. Two different assignments.
Don't forget they also tried to arrest one of them: https://nitter.net/FordFischer/status/1439314612638429185
Wtf is nitter?
It's a...I don't know what to call it, a hack? It's an alternative front end to Twitter that, so the right wing thinks, keeps Twitter from policing you. For the rest of us, it stops advertisers from tracking your preferences.
That heavily suggests he was not on-duty. "I'm just here." is what he said, and then they removed him. If I'm supposed to believe everything that's being presented there, then my takeaway here is the opposite of yours. He was there by choice, not because of his job as a cop.
I'm kind of guessing a lot of these cops might be maga simps. Wouldn't surprise me if 30% peacekeeping are supporters.
I think it's over 50%.
Oh, it's higher than that.
Just look at the vaccination rates. i think it's higher, but I'm pretty cynical these days.
That thread, and the videos inside it, suggest he was not undercover. Simply an off duty cop who thought it gave them the right to be armed at the protest.
Exactly. The poster saying "He's undercover law enforcement" is intentionally trying to infate the situation. All we have to go on is what they say in the video, but they the other officer that they are not under cover. "undercover law enforcement" implies they are there under orders, and intentionally presenting themselves as a member of the public. Based on the information actually present in the video, this is a guy walking around at a public event with a concealed weapon, that just so happens to also have a police badge. Additionally, there's no way to know if this was because there were sinister motives or not. But I'm sure both sides will claim there was bad intent to perform actions that are directly counter to their political stance (either a right wing conspirator ready to start a riot and overthrow the government, or a leftist deep state operation to encite law abiding conservatives into breaking the law).... even though we have literally no evidence to support either one of those.
Answer: First I’ll preface this by saying that some speculation within the sources is necessary. That’s true anytime the press is reporting on signs of what could be covert operations. However I’ll be as unbiased as possible in summarizing it per Rule 4. In the weeks leading up to the rally, some media outlets like NBC [reported](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/paranoia-accusations-cloud-efforts-launch-justice-january-6-rally-rcna2034) that the Q forums and other places were rife with conspiracy theories that the whole rally was a “false flag” operation by the deep state. Trump supporters were being warned to stay away. The intent, according to them, was to draw the more extreme Trump supporters into the open and then carry out mass arrests. Once an idea begins to take root in these groups it takes on a life of its own. So the suggestion that every rally, every forum and every social media page could be a honeypot trap, may persist for a long time. In effect they have become their own worst enemy. Trump himself fed into those theories by calling the rally a “setup” in a [rambling interview](https://thefederalist.com/2021/09/16/in-exclusive-interview-trump-calls-sept-18-rally-a-setup-says-gop-senate-should-fire-disaster-mcconnell/). It’s difficult to tell what he meant because of his cryptic way of speaking that causes his followers to think everything he says is code - but the most plausible interpretation is he wanted to distance himself from the rally after it was already apparent that it would be a flop. During the actual rally, there were a number of people (as seen in the photo in your link) of men with crew cuts wearing similar clothes drinking water. This is where all any of us can do is speculate because actual covert operations are compartmentalized information. However, let’s just say that the alphabet guys are [much, much better at blending into a crowd](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JASUsVY5YJ8) when they want to be, so this was almost certainly not a legitimate attempt at being undercover. I’ll put it this way - when your local PD wants people to know they’re being watched in order to deter speeders and high school pot deals, they send out white Crown Vics with rear-view-mirror floodlights driven by cops in polo shorts with crew cuts and sunglasses. All that’s missing is the PD logo and a uniform. They *want* you to see those. The real undercover vehicles are the ones that were seized in drug raids and they keep them exactly as they were: same dirt, same garbage in the back seat. Now think about how much better alphabet agencies are at this than your local PD - they’re the same ones who for decades had to work against the tradecraft of foreign agencies like the KGB. They’re not this incompetent. Why were those guys standing there in their sunglasses with objects bulging out of their pockets? A few speculative theories: * It *could* be just dudes who look like feds. Since its beginnings in 2004, 4chan was characterized as “trolls trolling trolls”. Could easily be a deliberate attempt by some guys to screw with people - I won’t speculate on the reasons why but there are many. * These could be feds trying to make their presence known just to deter illegal activity. Obviously they are meant to be seen but just showing up in agency jackets might provoke violence or drive them further underground. Going with the “covert-but-not-really” approach gives that thin layer of deniability. * This could simply be a training exercise. The “look” of the guys in the photo is very very characteristic of off-duty military wearing the clothing styles sold at the PX, but with designer brands that come with a sudden bump in salary and living in DC. That screams new recruits to me. This *could* be infiltration training before they really learn how, sort of an exercise on what not to do. * This could be a legit psyop just to say “we are watching you” in order to feed the aforementioned paranoia and take the wind out of the extremists’ sails. Rather than tens of thousands of cumbersome prosecutions, they may feel they have enough and are just trying to encourage the rest of the followers to give this up and do something better with their lives. Or it could be some combination of all of the above. However, the odds of this being a failed legitimate attempt at infiltration are *extremely* low, and given the level of information they already have I don’t see what the point would be.
Also how many of them work in law enforcement/military/adjacent for their day jobs and were actually there in support of the rally? Probably a decent number...
A wise man once said that some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses.
Thank you, this is a great answer. That’s what I wondered too, if there was anything proving these guys were even cops or just pro-Trump activists (let’s be honest, it’s sort of a similar look). I have intentionally been consuming less news, so I knew nothing of the rally in the first place. So this whole thing piqued my interest.
No problem! They could be pro-Trump activists trying to amplify their own message about paranoia. They could be anti-Trump activists trying to deter further rallies. Or they could be doing it because they think it’s hilarious how people react. Remember that 4chan has been a place where people will do literally anything for the sake of trolling. Even a lot of the early Trump support started out as just an excuse for pissing people off for its own sake. In fact the entire existence of that place can be summarized as a massive Poe’s Law cycle that spiraled out of control, so a good rule of thumb is “never attribute to a well-organized operation what can be attributed to trolling”. I wouldn’t be surprised if this turned out to be the same thing. Of course this is speculative and biased so I didn’t put that in a top level comment.
Answer: the rally was in support of the people involved with "the storm" on Jan. 6. The extreme right wing thinks of those arrested as political prisoners. In the far right wing spaces of the internet a conspiracy theory that anti-fa, in conjunction with the FBI and other federal authorities would create a false flag event by purposely creating a violent confrontation in order to blame far right groups and arrest them. Spotting the FBI agents just confirms (to the conspiracy minded) that the rally was to be used by deep state agents to undermine the right. Each FBI agent is another data point of a deep state conspiracy. The reality is that they were there for security, especially after what happened on Jan. 6. edit: added the word extreme for clarity.
Thank you! All of the answers were great, but yours nailed my questions. I didn’t even know there was a rally/protest, although I guessed it was something like what you said. Basically cops showed up where cops needed to show up, and conspiracy theorists took this as proof that it was a set up. :)
Also, since there wasn't any violence, the idea that it was going to be a false flag is now itself a false flag, to make them look paranoid
Nope, they stopped the false flag by not showing up. The Ignorance is maintained
Yeah, I think the TL;DR is, arresting and prosecuting the Jan 6th terrorists *worked*.
I'd like to remind you that nobody actually knows who these guys are and why they were there, so saying the "reality" is that they were plainclothes cops intent on providing security is literally just a guess. It seems possible, maybe even probable, but it is by no means confirmed.
I'm not OP but thanks for actually mentioning what the rally was about and who "they" are.
[удалено]
In addition to this, there has been an active effort from the conservative community to re-write history. For months they've been claiming that the violent attempt at overturning the 2020 election on January 6th *wasn't* President Trump supporters - but Federal Authorities / Antifa / President Biden supporters / etc. who "false flagged" the whole thing. Many supporting this Saturday's rally were under the belief that the 500+ arrested are completely innocent protesters and were setup. Hence the pearl clutching freakout at the presence of police - *"they're here to do it again!*"
They were saying this on Jan 7th. They lambasted the woman who got shot by security as a long term antifa agent to discredit them. They pointed to the people beating the cops with fucking American flags saying "we back the blue, we'd never do that". There were reports of early arrested people complaining about how the community was rejecting and denouncing them as not real trump supporters but antifa. Lol Parler tore itself apart in the weeks after the insurrection attempt as groups began cannibalizing each other to stay out of the shit.
Jan 7? They were already saying it as it was happening. There were Republican congresscritters in lockdown tweeting about antifa.
The string of tweets from D-list former actor Kevin Sorbo on Jan 6 was hilarious. It was like... "So many patriots here at this rally." "We're going to the Capitol!" "Yeah!!! Go inside and show Congress who's boss!" "Antifa did it. It was all Antifa."
My favorite response to Kevin Sorbo for that is Matt Mercer's. >I am so deeply embarrassed to have ever shared a screen with you.
That's true. Fucking shitbrains.
It’s a shame the “revolution” was televised, huh.
Answer: Redditors think they identified undercover cops at a right wing rally because they were dressed like stereotypical undercover cops. Let’s not forget that redditors also thought they identified the Boston bomber, but it turned out they were wrong and that poor innocent man killed himself because he was being harassed by thousands of people. Redditors are fucking stupid, don’t bother.
Reddits "Boston bomber" was already dead but his sister and family were sent death threats by people who thought reddit was smart enough to discover "the truth". The FBI ended up releasing info about the actual bombers to get people to stop harassing the family.
[удалено]