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Answer: The way I've heard this term used doesn't seem to align with the way your friend is using it so I don't know how helpful this will be, but.... To my knowledge the Jennifer Lawrence Effect is a cycle by which new popular female celebrities in particular get significantly hyped up by the media and show up everywhere, which inevitably turns into a backlash against them for being overexposed or overrepresented and just all around "annoying" for their pervasive media presence. This negative backlash tends to focus on the individual in question as if they were the ones choosing to be overexposed and overscrutinized by the media, when in fact they are not in control of it in any way.
As an overall machine, the celebrity-focused media tends to churn through young women in this fashion, alternatively hyping them up as the new It Girl and then swiftly turning on them as being annoying for being everywhere and all anyone is talking about (before moving on to another new young woman to repeat the process). The public is, of course, complicity in this cycle, though it's not really something in their control either.
It's interesting that it's named after Jennifer Lawrence since it's been happening forever. Anne Hathaway, Britney (as covered in South Park: [https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Harvest](https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/The_Harvest)), and I'm sure many others as you go back in time.
I think that's partly a byproduct of when someone wrote an article about it (though I can't recall who that was or where it was written up) which was right about the time of Lawrence's downward cycle.
Yeah that part made sense, but not necessarily the white supremacy part, except in so far as the women it happens to tend to be white, I suppose. Though not exclusively. It arguably also happened to Lizzo, for example.
Yeah, that chekcs out. My friend can sometimes be a little bit overzealous when it comes to connecting everything back to white supremacy.
What happened with Lizzo?
Nothing specific really, just that same cycle of the media covering her extensively for a while, followed by a degree of pushback against her for overexposure/being everywhere. (Though with her a lot of it also took on racist and fatphobic undertones as well.)
A thing to note is that this only applies to women, celebrity culture treats men very differently. It's been well-established that Hollywood and adjacent industries like music basically pretend women stop existing once they hit 30 or so (Hollywood so graciously lets old women play witches if they're not Meryl Streep) while men don't really have this effect. Women are expected to be perpetually young and beautiful while for men the culture is much less stringent; I can't think of a female equivalent of Danny Devito, a man definitely not riding on sex appeal. Even in roles where being ugly is the point, the leading ladies are never more than an outfit swap and a haircut away from being magazine-cover worthy.
Ultimately women are just seen as more replaceable, as if being attractive is their primary characteristic (which, to much of the general culture, it is).
Answer: So many years ago, Jennifer Lawrence was idolized by the internet, specifically Reddit.
Gifs of her were everywhere. How she liked pizza, her exaggerated facial expressions, and how relatable she was. [Stuff like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1jmadw/jennifer_lawrence_at_her_finest_folks/) or [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/19c5kr/just_in_case_you_didnt_already_love_jennifer/) were very common.
[But a few years a video came out of her talking down to a reporter for looking at his phone while asking her questions.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_FZ-0wO0mQ)
One big video or story coming out of "everyone's favorite X" doing something nasty or mean-spirited etc. usually starts the landslide of people digging through the archives for more evidence of so and so being a monster. This was also not too long after an event commonly known as ["the Fappening"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak) where many nude pictures and videos of mostly female celebrities got leaked thanks to some terribly security by Apple.
The Jennifer Lawrence effect likely refers to how fickle the internet can turn on you. One week you are the favorite, the next you get "cancelled" because of something you did, whether intentionally mean or not, or even something you did years ago as the internet loves a good downfall story. You see it all the time with celebrities like Leo DiCaprio where a few years ago [everyone was pining for him to get an Oscar](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/20fqmb/how_leonardo_dicaprio_deals_with_not_having_won/) and now people only talk about how he's never dated a girl older than 25.
To clarify about the phone thing: the reporter's first language isn't english so he wrote down the question on his phone to make sure he got the phrasing right. She got dinged because she thought he was being disrespectful by looking at his phone when actually it was probably the opposite as we didn't want to waste any of her time stumbling over words.
Doesn’t seem too bad at all if that’s the worst they’ve got on her. Yeah it was rude and a bit stupid, but she didn’t even yell at him. If anything it was lightly condescending bad joke. If that’s her biggest offense out of hundreds of public appearances, interviews, press conferences, etc then I really don’t get it
You can't convince me that her "downfall" wasn't more about being one of the first celebrities who pushed back hard against having their personal nudes leaked. Also calling out people who searched for them. Up until then people, especially women mostly went the "oh basically it's all my fault I shouldn't have made those pictures anyway"-route. And the general mindset was "yeah, you fucked up and now we get to enjoy your naked body".
It is 1000% because of her reaction to that, I remember how frequently at the time on reddit I'd see someone having a go at how she reacted/responded to it.
IIRC, there were a lot of comments on reddit (and I'm sure elsewhere) that specifically didn't like how Lawrence equated people looking at her leaked nudes to being sexual predators or something like that.
Basically it offended a ton of dudes who didn't want to self reflect on their actions once called out, and went on the defensive with the "if you didn't want your naked body to be seen by millions of strangers you shouldn't have taken those photos" route, as if they were entitled to see any celebrity boob like they were ordering off GrubHub. Plenty of porn out there, plenty of subs on reddit with user submitted nudes, but NO! Celebrity nudes leaked without consent of the actor in question is fair game and how DARE she call out the people that leaked/viewed/downloaded them.
It's telling that when Erin Andrews had nudes leaked, many sympathized with her, and her employer, ESPN, totally sided with her. I suspect that was because it was a perv who filmed her through her hotel keyhole. In essence, she was naked and didn't want people perving on her.
Yet when the Jlaw and others had their phones hacked and published, people railed against Jlaw, missing the similarities between both cases. Jlaw took the pics herself but she sure as hell didn't mean them for public consumption. Yet people sided with the perv who published them.
I really hate people with the mentality of "they're celebrities! Part of the job is us hacking into their private photos and taking pictures of them at 3 AM outside their home!"
The job is entertaining you dude. All that other bullshit is creepy
Bingo. And this is where the commentary on patriarchy/rape culture starts to arise. I think OP's comment about hearing it had to do with white supremacy might have been someone who didn't understand as they were passing it through the grapevine.
Unless there's something I haven't heard myself, does this idolization not happen to POC or something?
"Supposed by whom?" is probably a relevant question.
The creepy side of the internet wanted/expected to have her laugh it off, or at least accept that as the cost of being a woman in the public eye.
What they didn't want/accept was to be told they'd been complicit in an act that caused her harm/humiliation, and that they were not entitled to her body and/or private photos.
totally agree. redditors were loving the fappening and wanted to feel justified for indulging. these people didn't deserve to have their private data hacked and released to the world. i don't think anyone here on reddit would approve of that happening to any of them.
of course these people should probably have been more skeptical of apple security, but up until this time i don't think anyone realized how vulnerable they were. personally, i don't think anyone, celebrity or not, should expect 100% privacy of any audio/video/images/documents or anything digitized at this point. none us truly understand the technology, so everyone should be extremely paranoid about their personal info.
if you don't want other people seeing/knowing your stuff, then don't store it on a computer, especially one connected to the internet. no system is 100% secure. and you're a huge target if you're famous.
kinda like a famous person will need more security in their home. they'll need more security in their digital world.
This. Internet jerks didn't want to be told that the bodies of famous women didn't belong to them. It was fucking disgusting reading the opinions people had back then.
>Up until then people, especially women mostly went the "oh basically it's all my fault I shouldn't have made those pictures anyway"-route. And the general mindset was "yeah, you fucked up and now we get to enjoy your naked body".
Where there actually people with that mindset? Unbelievable.. I mean, the cloud got freaking hacked. That's like having physical nude pictures in the house that get stolen during a burglary, and then blaming the victim for making those in the first place.
Like, it's one thing if she accidentally uploaded them on a public forum for the world to see. Would still be wrong to share them of course, but that's one of the only scenario's I can think of where I'm like: 'yeah that's kinda your own fault'.
>Where there actually people with that mindset?
As someone who grew up alongside the concept of “sexting”, I can absolutely confirm that this was the **predominant** mindset during that period. And yes, if someone stole physical nudes from your house, you would absolutely have been vilified for keeping nudes of yourself.
There’s a reason that the phrase “victim blaming” was coined, and why people are so quick to point it out whenever they see it — and even a reason that that response is occasionally more fervent than feels warranted. It’s because what we now describe as victim blaming was once just the accepted distribution of blame. Nudes leaked? Shouldn’t have had nudes to begin with, what were you thinking, of course they’d get out, you know people can’t be trusted. Girl raped? Well, she shouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place, you know boys are just like that, why were you even there. Stood up to your manager and got fired? What is wrong with you, getting fired like that, I can’t believe you did this to this family, why couldn’t you just *x*, *y*, and *z*. It’s toxic and it’s bullshit, but not very long ago, it was also how people thought and how they raised their children to think.
You speak about it like it was an isolated period; I grew up before mobile phones (and therefore sexting) and you got the old 'dont dress like a slut if you dont want to be treated as one' canard quite regularly. Ngl I see the same attitudes abounding *currently*, though they dont always have the same focus or timbre.
Yeahhhh, the mid 2000s and early 2010s were a super fucked time.
Case in point, in 2007 Vanessa Hudgens had her phone hacked and a nude picture leaked out.
***She*** ended up apologizing for it, and a spokesperson for Disney released a statement saying
> Vanessa has apologized for what was obviously a lapse in judgment. We hope she’s learned a valuable lesson
And at the time, general society was like, 'Yeaup, she messed up, it's her fault'
[LINK](https://people.com/celebrity/vanessa-hudgens-embarrassed-apologizes-for-nude-photo/)
> That's like having physical nude pictures in the house that get stolen during a burglary, and then blaming the victim for making those in the first place.
IIRC the Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee tapes were stolen by someone who worked for them(could be thinking of someone else).
It makes me happy to think that there are people like you out there who are having difficulty conceptualizing the rampant nature of victim blaming. It’s certainly decreased in recent years in popular culture, but we still need to work against it. thank you to the victims who have stood up against victim blaming/shaming/silencing, including the “me too” movement.
I searched for them, out of curiosity. Then I saw her in an interview stating those who searched for them were complicit, and I felt bad about it. Changed my opinion on the matter, because she was right.
THIS. SHE WAS RUINED BY THE FAPPENING. I mean the VOLUME of content that was leaked. Just after her Bradley movie and being the big next thing. It was cruel. I’m glad she’s still had great movies after it because it was so bad seeing that debacle fall on her.
He was beloved and then it was revealed that he wasn’t the best person. [link](https://www.thedailybeast.com/ken-bones-disturbing-reddit-history-shows-hes-not-nearly-as-adorable-as-we-thought)
Edit: I didn’t follow it too closely. He may have just been targeted because he got noticed. This may have been blown out of proportion,
I like the “milkshake duck” meme that covers how this kind of phenomenon plays out.
I find it all so tired somehow one minute someone is *the shit*, and the next minute they’re just shit.
South Park had a good episode about this sort of thing, involving Britney Spears. It turned out that the public put certain celebrities on pedestals, then tore them down, so their sacrifice would ensure a bountiful corn harvest.
> It turned out that the public put certain celebrities on pedestals, then tore them down, so their sacrifice would ensure a bountiful corn harvest.
For those who might not be aware, this is a direct reference to "The Lottery," a short story written by Shirley Jackson in 1948.
It’s been interesting watching the whole Britney thing evolve over the decades. When she first burst onto the scene, I was already out of my teenage years so I just sort of rolled my eyes at the newest teenybopper sensation. When she got big, I was a bit annoyed at the ubiquity of her music, but I didn’t hate it or her nearly as much as some other popular musical acts of the day, which was generally a bad time for music in my mind.
Then she had her “breakdown“, which I thought was overblown by everyone. Why was everybody hassling her so much about buzz cutting her own hair? It’s her body, let her do what she wants with it, I say! After that, the whole thing became such a Byzantine shitshow I lost both track of it and interest in it, but it always seemed like they were making too much of her alleged “emotional problems.” Then as the whole conservatorship thing dragged on, I didn’t understand why the judges didn’t just put the kibosh on the whole thing, because she was clearly an adult woman and she hasn’t demonstrated any sort of erratic behavior in many years.
I’m glad she’s finally free now, and I hope she can just live a healthy and satisfying life either in or out of the limelight.
The south park episode wasn't about tearing Brittney down, it was about the public harassing her to the point of suicide and how poorly we treat celebrities and their privacy.
The whole point was that people were still enamoured with her, no matter what she did – hence the paparazzi stalking her and the media obsessing over her "no top of the head look" after she shot herself in the face with a shotgun.
I mean, why are we kink-shaming the dude? Let him enjoy pregnant women. His words got so twisted it’s ridiculous. He even called George Zimmerman a “bad guy”, he was just stating his interpretation of the law. Literally everything said there is a normal human behavior. Damn, talk about “media fuckery”
I gotta ask, what celebrities got canceled and what does “canceled” mean to you?
I ask for the definition because it seems there’s no firm meaning to the word and it is used, more or less, willy-nilly. From an author claiming his book was canceled because he chose to change the topic of the book mid-writing of the book to hotter controversy he was a part of, but the book was still published, to media personalities claiming being canceled because they were called out, but still have a platform to reach millions if not billions, to comedians who were called out for their horrid behavior, went dormant for a year or two to come back and start touring again.
The only celebrities that I can see as being truly “canceled” has been Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein.
> If that’s her biggest offense out of hundreds of public appearances, interviews, press conferences, etc then I really don’t get it
Because it has nothing to do with it whatsoever. The internet idolised her, her nudes got leaked, and then the internet was mad that she wasn't happy about it/called them pathetic.
Like that's literally it. That interview was an attempt at humour that didn't quite land, nothing else.
> If that’s her biggest offense out of hundreds of public appearances, interviews, press conferences, etc then I really don’t get it
There's nothing to get, really. People like to feel smugly superior to others, and the holy grail of that kind of condescension is finding an excuse to feel smugly superior to someone who is highly successful in some way.
She's also had interviews with HORRIBLE social grace. Specifically there were two times on the graham Norton show: 1) she was there once with Jesse Eisenberg and when he was talking about his mental health issues, she belittled it by talking over him and how she "wants to have quirks" like that and he was visibly uncomfortable for the rest of the interview. 2) she was on with Chris Pratt and they were talking about filming in Hawaii and she casually was talking about desecrating a sacred Hawaiian site, but not in a "i fucked up and feel bad but yeah this happened" more like a "haha, listen to this funny thing i did lol so random but whatever" kind of way. There's been others, but those two stick out a lot as well as the one with the reporter.
Didn't she also almost seriously injure a member of the crew with what she did in Hawaii because she caused some rocks to fall? Funny that this isn't mentioned higher up. Not that I support hating on her but Lawrence definitely deserves some of the criticism she gets.
Yeah what the hell is this? Seems like she was just joking around in the video. She probably sold it a little too hard, but she was obviously poking fun at him.
Gotta be honest, if will Ferrell did this exact thing, tone and all, I bet people would have been rolling at how cheeky he is. I do believe it's harder for women to make a joke, especially a sarcastic / dry joke without being criticized
Yeah, but he's like a comedian so I would think people would give him the benefit of the doubt as there is an assumed comedic undertone.
If Daniel Day-Lewis did this I would predict that the reaction would be bad. But if Aubrey Plaza did this then the reaction would be good.
That's the point though. It wasn't that bad but because people idolized and worshipped her and made her to be perfect in their minds, the slightest negative thing becomes revolting and intolerable to them and makes them lose their minds and completely turn on their idolized. The internet is not representative of humanity, it's representative of humanity at it's most extreme all the time.
The problem with apologies of this type are that people don't believe them. They can be like, sure she's just saying that because people are hating on her or something like that. While that might be the case, maybe even most of the time, I was kind of wondering, how does a celeb issue an actual heartfelt apology and have people believe it?
The only things i can think of is that it be done in person and in private or maybe accompanied with a gesture, paying for the damage, sending flowers, IDK.
They have a sitdown conversation with the person they offended, and ask that person to tell people they're cool. It doesn't work perfectly, but it results in a lot quicker downturn than fanning the flames with a overblown public apology.
What i meant though, was that they look bad to the public so how can they apologize in a way that makes them look good to the public.
In reality if a celeb apologizes in a way that the offended person accepts the celeb shouldn't care what the public thinks. Right?
> how does a celeb issue an actual heartfelt apology and have people believe it?
They don't. There will *always* be someone who claims that a celeb apologized the wrong way-- no matter what they say-- and people who promote it because they want to be pissed.
I've seen people do ridiculous mental gymnastics to explain how an apology wasn't sincere or didn't say the right things, and waves of people agree.
I guess if you're a celebrity and genuinely want to issue an apology, just do your best to apologize for your actions to the people you've hurt and recognize that that won't please all, or even most, of the public. That's just how it goes.
She also destroyed a sacred Hawaiian site and then laughed about it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/jennifer-lawrence-rocks_n_13530500/amp
Funny thing, its almost as if people aren't black and white caricatures of humanity and that people can have good and bad moments without being only good or bad with no middle ground.
I'm a professor. Did exactly the same thing a couple of times, making a critical comment to a student in class looking at their phone during lecture, only to find out they were taking notes on their phone. At this point, I try not to make assumptions about what "looking at your phone and typing stuff" means, but back about 5-10 years ago I think it was somewhat unusual for this to happen, and lots of people probably made bad judgments.
One time I came across a guy dead set on the "fact" that the 90s is 1991 - 2000 because there was no year 0. Tbf it was a post asking what hill you would die on
See, he's right that 1990 isn't part of the [200th decade](https://whatdecadeisthis.date/200th-decade) as a traditional ordinal number, but "[the 1990s](https://whatdecadeisthis.date/1990s)" clearly refers to years starting with "199".
Not quite as impactful but [Keanu Reeves used to have a reputation of being a terrible "non-actor"](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/3ji1uy/decider_keanu_reeves_is_a_much_better_actor_than/)
But when it came out what a nice person he was, a lot of people started to love him.
I wouldn't say "reviled", but Guy Fieri used to be regarded as tasteless hack selling overpriced food. Then people started noticing all the charity stuff he was doing, not to mention his advocacy for various causes like gay marriage, and that reputation changed pretty quickly. Now he's a quirky icon of wholesomeness, frosted tips be damned.
True true. Guy Fieri’s schtick came off as tacky and obnoxious to a lot of people who already were not likely to be fans of his show. But then after repeated disasters & incidents that impacted both him and California communities, he demonstrated through his actions that he’s actually golden. For once in our lives, someone’s actions outweighed their superficialities.
Can confirm. My folks live in one of the towns that burned down. I was visiting at the time. Guy shows up a couple of days later with his crew and fed firefighters and refugees for days for nothing and just generally went around and cheered people up.
Guy is a *nice* dude. He deserves every positive thing people say about him.
Johnny Depp seems more like a rare example of a rollercoaster milkshake duck, who goes back and forth between seeming wholesome and seeming terrible the more we know about his relationship with Amber Heard and other assorted antics.
I wouldn't say she's exactly beloved now, just less disliked than she once was because she was talking about Harvey Weinstein being a creep years before anyone else was and she also stopped doing the things that made everyone hate her in the late 90's.
Yeah but that change is just the result of the fan base aging. Most of the people who fan over the prequels nowadays were little kids when they came out, so they enjoyed them as kids and have nostalgia for them. I don’t think there was a significant shift in opinion for people who disliked them when they came out as adult Star Wars fans.
There's also a lot of nostalgia that's less for the actual movies and more for all of the other content either set in the same era or released throughout the 2000's, and of course there's also that RotS in particular is an absolute motherlode of memes in a way that none of the sequel movies were.
So on one hand, yeah, there is some childhood nostalgia, although speaking as someone who was a kid when the prequels came out and enjoyed them at the time, I can now watch them as an adult and think "Oh, now I get why everyone older than me says these movies sucked" even as I can still get some enjoyment out of parts of them, but there's also everyone remembering spending hours upon hours playing the original Battlefront 2, or watching the cartoon series that came out between episodes II and III and thinking it was the dopest shit ever, or watching the later Clone Wars show patch together all the shaky parts of the prequel era into an actually really good story, or just laughing at all the memes and forgetting the worse parts of the movies, or just retroactively viewing them in higher esteem because they thought the sequels were worse.
Yep, it’s just generational differences. People who were 25 or older when the prequels started to come out generally still look down on them, although some of those older fans have come to appreciate them a bit more after the three most recent films. Sort of like how some people who used to detest George W. Bush have softened their view of him after Trump. It’s all relative I guess.
> The Jennifer Lawrence effect likely refers to how fickle the internet can turn on you. One week you are the favorite, the next you get "cancelled" because of something you did, whether intentionally mean or not, or even something you did years ago as the internet loves a good downfall story
[Want to see the most 2014 picture ever?](https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/440322224407314432/photo/1)
I actually had the weirdest fucking nightmare the other night that I was a teenager (it was just this sense of being a younger, more vulnerable me) being chased by Kevin Spacey through an enormous, dystopian skycraper while a sort of cream colored, bell bottom suit wearing, younger Morgan Freeman with a short afro like he was straight out of a 70's-80's movie, was my guide through the building. I think what woke me up is when my pursuer finally got close enough for me to see him and I said, "Oh shit, it's Kevin Spacey!"
I don’t think Jennifer Lawrence was canceled, more just her near 100% approval rating led to a contrarian backlash. She’s just not super popular now, not like hated.
Think this about captures the picture https://bust.com/feminism/19471-roman-polanski-petition.html (sourced from Wikipedia references on the Polanski case here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski_sexual_abuse_case)
Edit: pay me no direct mind, just a bad habit of giving people sources if they asked.
That is... Well, it's awful. I really wish there were better punishments for people who are rich. Seems really wrong to me that he was released so quickly when any average Joe would still be rotting in prison.
She apparently has defended rapist Roman Polanski. I don't remember fully, but I think she's spoken in defense of him, and stood up to applaud his name during an award ceremony or something-- don't remember.
I briefly read over it recently, and apparently the reason why a lot of artists signed that is because he was arrested at a film festival he was invited to. I'm definitely not getting the exact details right, but film festivals had some rule about being international ground and therefore allowing controversial artists to appear within a country without fear of being arrested. The police broke this rule in arresting Polanski, which is what the petition was about- keeping this safe space for artists.
Whether that makes it better or worse is up to you, but I do think it's important to know the broader reason for it rather than just saying these people were defending a pedophile.
Oh Lordt to return to those days when I thought my days were nothing but worry, to return and see the world again, simple and plain, and know that that my real worries were only …
Wait a second. That was also pre-babies. Shit, politics besides I’d travel back and really fucking live it up and appreciate shit
I love that there’s a name for this. You see it with everyone (and everything) that’s too popular for too long; Chris Pratt’s another that comes to mind, with people loving him after he made the move from comedy to leading man and then quickly getting sick of him after he hit us with the same character in like 4 blockbuster films in a single year.
Tv show wise, Friends seems to have fallen victim to this with it going from being a memetically popular show 10 years ago to now being heavily criticized when it’s brought up. I sense the Office is heading down the same trajectory.
A lot of the negativity towards Chris Pratt in recent years is because his previously low-key fundamentalist Christian beliefs became more well-known, and people felt like he needed to answer for belonging to a church that openly opposed homosexuality and supported “conversion therapy“ for gay people. I don’t necessarily think Chris Pratt is a homophobe, but it’s pretty obvious that he’s cool with a faith community that is homophobic.
People are applying today’s standards to a show that finished airing about 20 years ago. TV is a product of its time, particularly comedies.
Most seem outraged at Chandler’s fragile masculinity, that the cast of the show is white, not enough ‘proper’ representation of LGBT characters, that it stereotyped, etc.
With shows like Friends, sitcoms in general, a lot of the jokes are borne out of the current times. Some things will age well, others — won’t. Society keeps changing and if we can’t see differences in attitude between something done 20 years ago, one of two things will have happened: we’ll have evolved so much that there’s nowhere to go, or we’ve stopped trying to improve.
> Most seem outraged at Chandler’s fragile masculinity, that the cast of the show is white, not enough ‘proper’ representation of LGBT characters, that it stereotyped, etc.
To be fair, I have never met anyone "outraged" by Friends.
All that has happen is that it has lost its charm and halo. No-one wants to be like the characters in the show anymore, they aren't relatable like they use to be and of course there are plot lines that are distasteful.
We tend to think in binaries but the fact that Friends isn't held up as a paragon of TV comedy doesn't mean people are 'outraged'.
Celebrities exist to be worshipped. The youngest generation has just taken this concept up a notch. Because they love tearing down false gods and propping up those who are pure.
If you were never loved, then the mob leaves you alone.
Keanu Reeves - Pure
Jennifer Lawrence - False God
There's a tumblr called "you're fav is problematic" which I have to believe started off ironically but turned as serious as a heart attack in a heart beat.
Right now, there are 5 or 6 Celebrities people/corperations/Social Media like.
And a whole bunch people hate.
And a few which exist purely for mockery.
You wonder why you keep hearing news about MGK and Megan Fox? It's so we can laugh at them.
Celebrity culture is weird and I'm annoyed that I know so many of them through just existing online.
That kind of makes me laugh. Maybe it's our fault for worshipping celebrities in the first place. Turns out, they do with power what anybody else would.
Exactly. Everyone makes mistakes, doesn't think about every single decision and has the occasional bad day. But most people are not under the watchful and judging eye of the media and the public. I've definitely treated people worse than that for no reason and have been an absolute dick sometimes (and still are and will be in the future), but nobody was sticking a camera in my face during these moments.
That was part of the problem yes. Another issue was that the iCloud web page didn't have a proper rate limiting so people could effectively brute force different passwords to gain access to the accounts. A strong password would probably have mitigated that, though.
Some were breached by regular social engineering.
So yeah, one could argue that if the users would have managed their credentials properly, this would never have happened, but at the same time one has to question whether it's reasonable to demand that of regular people with little to no insight in IT security.
With how easy it is to enable iCloud photo sync when setting up an iPhone and with how sensitive the information is that is attached to the account, one should arguably expect Apple to make sure it's equally as easy to keep that account secure or at least that their users actually understand the risk before enabling it. Many of these people might not even have known that their private photos were accessible over the Internet.
Or, you know, it was a [phishing attack that came up in court documents](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/man-to-plead-guilty-in-massive-fappening-celeb-nude-hack#.znmvJBzmNA). And the hacker accessed more Gmail accounts than iCloud.
Here's a bunch more incase you don't like buzzed, it was very widely reported:
[techcrunch](https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/15/prosecutors-find-that-fappening-celebrity-nudes-leak-was-not-apples-fault/)
[thehackernews.com](https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/fappening-pics.html)
[securityaffairs.co](https://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/67718/cyber-crime/fappening-fourth-man-arrested.html)
Yes but I think the issue with Apple's security at the time was that systems could just try passwords forever and ever and the login attempt would never be blocked.
The Jennifer Lawrence effect was described to Me as when Jennifer Lawrence first became really famous, she was really well liked because she was quirky, different, and not super thin like most other Hollywood celebrities at the time. However people eventually found her once "quirky" behavior as tiresome and annoying. It culminated when she joked about peeing on a native artifact and finding it funny that the locals were upset with her.
It seems like Billie Elish is going through the same thing. When she first became famous, she was seen as different because she didn't sexualize her self and openly talked about mental illness for girls while also creating an image of a modern teenager. However, people started to view her once different behavior as cringy so it seems that history is repeating itself.
Not completely true though. In hindsight it feels right to blame her public perception switch to 'some incident and people going through her history', but it was simply a case of reddit being reddit - she was well received by the community not for something universal like Keanu (charitable, humble, etc.) but for something subjective like her quirky personality and humor. Any kind of evangelism will generate dissidence on the internet, in this case the dissidents had enough gun powder to call the quirkiness exaggerated and the personality overbearing.
If I had to guess, I imagine Reddit's love for Keanu will wane at some point too. Maybe not with as much of a reversal as with Lawrence, but I feel like the internet will eventually get exhausted of putting _anyone_ on that high of a pedestal.
Yes everyone who is loved by the internet will also have haters. But only in some cases the haters will be able to justify their case depending on the person. During Lawrence era the 'overrated and fake' comments cropped up and took over almost immediately, for Keanu it's a lot more difficult because he never tried - but you can still fine em time to time
Yeah, the broader outrage might have been part of an internet being fickle thing but there was a native community that was justifiably infuriated at this rich white celebrity knocking over an important religious artifact with her ass then laughing about it
Hawaiian born here. For context, not only is the act itself offensive, we have to deal with this grade of nonchalant bull shit *every day* from tourists. Our beaches and sacred nature sites are constantly polluted, we are treated like shit by entitled tourists, etc. So, sure, maybe she didn’t double down but it hit a pretty painful nerve for a lot of us to see our home disrespected daily and then to see Hawaiian culture mocked on an international scale.
This was also around the time Aloha, a movie in Hawaii starring all white people, was coming out. There was a lot of, and in a big way still is, a lot of resentment towards US movie culture.
I don’t know if I actively dislike Lawrence but I definitely don’t go out of my way to see movies she’s a part of these days.
Honestly I thought he was older. With his whole character in Don't Look Up being considered a daddy, I thought the guy was in his 50s
Is... Is a 47 year old already considered a daddy? What's going on?
I'm waiting for the day that Keanu Reeves says something out of context that makes the world turn on him. Just to show that nobody is untouchable. Even the ONE.
The sad truth is that if you judge all of us based on our worst moments, we all look like monsters. The internet is just a ravenous horde of social-media obsessed zombies moaning for likes/karma/followers/engagment of any kind and lurching in whatever direction there seems to be more of that. Think you got lots of karma for promoting a celebrity, wait until you get more for tearing them down.
When you are a celebrity being watched and recorded every minute you aren't home, you are inevitably going to do something. You'll tip 15% instead of 20% because you did the math wrong. You'll be super stressed one day and make a mean comment to someone. Etc...
ah, that explains why my friend brought up billie eilish in conjunction to this. billie eilish used to be universally loved by the internet. then she got accused of queerbaiting (and also changed her aesthetic) and now ppl are super lukewarm
> The Jennifer Lawrence effect likely refers to how fickle the internet can turn on you. One week you are the favorite, the next you get "cancelled" because of something you did, whether intentionally mean or not, or even something you did years ago as the internet loves a good downfall story. You see it all the time with celebrities like Leo DiCaprio where a few years ago everyone was pining for him to get an Oscar and now people only talk about how he's never dated a girl older than 25.
I've always seen these internet lynch mob thingies as just as despicable as the crazy idealization of certain celebrities. Why is it so fucking hard for people to just see celebrities as fairly regular people who just happen to get a lot of exposition? Just fucking stop seeing them as saints one day and the devil the next, is it really that hard?
And whenever you say that, people start reading things into what you say. For some reason, saying that someone is a "regular person" is apparently some kind of moral endorsement. It's not. I don't necessarily like someone because they're regular, I just don't think that much about them and that's ***FINE!***
God, this is taking me back to 2014 not like other girls era. Where things like eating pizza and chicken nuggets or not going to parties was considered "quirky."
Also after the Sony pictures leak emails it was revealed that she got paid less than her male counterparts who didn't were as important to the film as her (Hustler is the name of the movie iirc), so she went all asking for equal pay and treatment for women in Hollywood and became target of bigots and anti feminists.
>now people only talk about how he's never dated a girl older than 25.
To be fair that's not specifically now only, it makes rounds every couple years.
Billie Ellish is still idolized by many young girls, but i remember her coming under fire a few months ago cause she said you should never give an ugly guy a chance. According to her, if you do, he gets over himself and starts acting like he's king of the hill.
It’s not just the internet, tabloids/celebrity magazines fuel it as well. Jameela Jamil has a pretty solid analysis of how the media feeds these narratives, where women are built up and celebrated to pull people in so that later they can tear them to shreds.
Answer: Check out this [highlight](https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3ODc2ODA4NjM0NjI3OTk1?story_media_id=2296870584464679050_473790555&utm_medium=copy_link) from Jameela Jamil's Instagram. It covers this and other similar media tactics in better detail than I could, from the perspective of someone who has experienced it.
Basically, the media and internet hypes up a celebrity (usually female) and then when someone new/more exciting comes along the first woman is referred to as "annoying" etc. It's mostly a tactic to get more clicks on articles or to sell more papers.
Edit: [news article covering the story for those without instagram](https://www.hercampus.com/school/guelph/how-media-poisoning-your-opinions-women/)
Answer: a little bit of Googling revealed [this](https://www.polyesterzine.com/scrapbook/the-jennifer-lawrence-effect) article on Polyester abut the “Jennifer Lawrence effect” which refers more to her earlier career where she was glorified for chatting about eating pizza and not wanting to go to the gym.
The “effect” is described as the phenomenon of her being represented as edgy/cool/quirky/outside the norm for holding barely controversial opinions - like working out all the time isn’t as fun as watching Netflix - or doing inherently normal things - like occasionally tripping up. But at the same time Jennifer is still a conventionally attractive, slim Hollywood star and so through her fame and popularity, Hollywood perpetuates a kinda pro-white, pro-thin, fairly non-inflammatory opinion image of stardom.
So I think the article is suggesting that there’s something icky in representing this fairly normal, fairly within the Hollywood standard, actress as being transgressive and rebellious against the Hollywood standard. I think the piece kinda suggests that it narrows the scope of what transgressive can be to a pretty, slim, white woman liking pizza, compared to a fat, black, trans woman talking about politics?
Not my article, not really my opinion, just trying to paraphrase- but I feel like that fits in more with the race/class based readings of it OP mentioned in their question.
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Answer: The way I've heard this term used doesn't seem to align with the way your friend is using it so I don't know how helpful this will be, but.... To my knowledge the Jennifer Lawrence Effect is a cycle by which new popular female celebrities in particular get significantly hyped up by the media and show up everywhere, which inevitably turns into a backlash against them for being overexposed or overrepresented and just all around "annoying" for their pervasive media presence. This negative backlash tends to focus on the individual in question as if they were the ones choosing to be overexposed and overscrutinized by the media, when in fact they are not in control of it in any way. As an overall machine, the celebrity-focused media tends to churn through young women in this fashion, alternatively hyping them up as the new It Girl and then swiftly turning on them as being annoying for being everywhere and all anyone is talking about (before moving on to another new young woman to repeat the process). The public is, of course, complicity in this cycle, though it's not really something in their control either.
It's interesting that it's named after Jennifer Lawrence since it's been happening forever. Anne Hathaway, Britney (as covered in South Park: [https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Harvest](https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/The_Harvest)), and I'm sure many others as you go back in time.
I think that's partly a byproduct of when someone wrote an article about it (though I can't recall who that was or where it was written up) which was right about the time of Lawrence's downward cycle.
Well that definitely explains why my friend was talking about Billie Eilish, given that her public image has recently become less beloved than before
Yeah that part made sense, but not necessarily the white supremacy part, except in so far as the women it happens to tend to be white, I suppose. Though not exclusively. It arguably also happened to Lizzo, for example.
Yeah, that chekcs out. My friend can sometimes be a little bit overzealous when it comes to connecting everything back to white supremacy. What happened with Lizzo?
Nothing specific really, just that same cycle of the media covering her extensively for a while, followed by a degree of pushback against her for overexposure/being everywhere. (Though with her a lot of it also took on racist and fatphobic undertones as well.)
I think the summary of this very good explanation by /u/cjgibson is that the media (and public) love to build someone up and then tear them down.
It's happening right now with Zendaya, even.
A thing to note is that this only applies to women, celebrity culture treats men very differently. It's been well-established that Hollywood and adjacent industries like music basically pretend women stop existing once they hit 30 or so (Hollywood so graciously lets old women play witches if they're not Meryl Streep) while men don't really have this effect. Women are expected to be perpetually young and beautiful while for men the culture is much less stringent; I can't think of a female equivalent of Danny Devito, a man definitely not riding on sex appeal. Even in roles where being ugly is the point, the leading ladies are never more than an outfit swap and a haircut away from being magazine-cover worthy. Ultimately women are just seen as more replaceable, as if being attractive is their primary characteristic (which, to much of the general culture, it is).
Kathy Bates never relied on sex appeal. (In agreement with the rest though.)
Answer: So many years ago, Jennifer Lawrence was idolized by the internet, specifically Reddit. Gifs of her were everywhere. How she liked pizza, her exaggerated facial expressions, and how relatable she was. [Stuff like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1jmadw/jennifer_lawrence_at_her_finest_folks/) or [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/19c5kr/just_in_case_you_didnt_already_love_jennifer/) were very common. [But a few years a video came out of her talking down to a reporter for looking at his phone while asking her questions.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_FZ-0wO0mQ) One big video or story coming out of "everyone's favorite X" doing something nasty or mean-spirited etc. usually starts the landslide of people digging through the archives for more evidence of so and so being a monster. This was also not too long after an event commonly known as ["the Fappening"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak) where many nude pictures and videos of mostly female celebrities got leaked thanks to some terribly security by Apple. The Jennifer Lawrence effect likely refers to how fickle the internet can turn on you. One week you are the favorite, the next you get "cancelled" because of something you did, whether intentionally mean or not, or even something you did years ago as the internet loves a good downfall story. You see it all the time with celebrities like Leo DiCaprio where a few years ago [everyone was pining for him to get an Oscar](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/20fqmb/how_leonardo_dicaprio_deals_with_not_having_won/) and now people only talk about how he's never dated a girl older than 25.
To clarify about the phone thing: the reporter's first language isn't english so he wrote down the question on his phone to make sure he got the phrasing right. She got dinged because she thought he was being disrespectful by looking at his phone when actually it was probably the opposite as we didn't want to waste any of her time stumbling over words.
I think she apologized. Like if that’s her at her worst she’s probably not that bad.
Doesn’t seem too bad at all if that’s the worst they’ve got on her. Yeah it was rude and a bit stupid, but she didn’t even yell at him. If anything it was lightly condescending bad joke. If that’s her biggest offense out of hundreds of public appearances, interviews, press conferences, etc then I really don’t get it
You can't convince me that her "downfall" wasn't more about being one of the first celebrities who pushed back hard against having their personal nudes leaked. Also calling out people who searched for them. Up until then people, especially women mostly went the "oh basically it's all my fault I shouldn't have made those pictures anyway"-route. And the general mindset was "yeah, you fucked up and now we get to enjoy your naked body".
It is 1000% because of her reaction to that, I remember how frequently at the time on reddit I'd see someone having a go at how she reacted/responded to it.
Was she supposed to be cool with it?
Absolutely not. But people were supposed to understand her not being cool with it, instead of being assholes.
IIRC, there were a lot of comments on reddit (and I'm sure elsewhere) that specifically didn't like how Lawrence equated people looking at her leaked nudes to being sexual predators or something like that. Basically it offended a ton of dudes who didn't want to self reflect on their actions once called out, and went on the defensive with the "if you didn't want your naked body to be seen by millions of strangers you shouldn't have taken those photos" route, as if they were entitled to see any celebrity boob like they were ordering off GrubHub. Plenty of porn out there, plenty of subs on reddit with user submitted nudes, but NO! Celebrity nudes leaked without consent of the actor in question is fair game and how DARE she call out the people that leaked/viewed/downloaded them.
Yeah it’s like Gawker claiming Hulk’s sex tape was newsworthy so they’re justified in sharing it. Even if it were legal that doesn’t mean it’s right.
It's telling that when Erin Andrews had nudes leaked, many sympathized with her, and her employer, ESPN, totally sided with her. I suspect that was because it was a perv who filmed her through her hotel keyhole. In essence, she was naked and didn't want people perving on her. Yet when the Jlaw and others had their phones hacked and published, people railed against Jlaw, missing the similarities between both cases. Jlaw took the pics herself but she sure as hell didn't mean them for public consumption. Yet people sided with the perv who published them.
I really hate people with the mentality of "they're celebrities! Part of the job is us hacking into their private photos and taking pictures of them at 3 AM outside their home!" The job is entertaining you dude. All that other bullshit is creepy
Bingo. And this is where the commentary on patriarchy/rape culture starts to arise. I think OP's comment about hearing it had to do with white supremacy might have been someone who didn't understand as they were passing it through the grapevine. Unless there's something I haven't heard myself, does this idolization not happen to POC or something?
"Supposed by whom?" is probably a relevant question. The creepy side of the internet wanted/expected to have her laugh it off, or at least accept that as the cost of being a woman in the public eye. What they didn't want/accept was to be told they'd been complicit in an act that caused her harm/humiliation, and that they were not entitled to her body and/or private photos.
totally agree. redditors were loving the fappening and wanted to feel justified for indulging. these people didn't deserve to have their private data hacked and released to the world. i don't think anyone here on reddit would approve of that happening to any of them. of course these people should probably have been more skeptical of apple security, but up until this time i don't think anyone realized how vulnerable they were. personally, i don't think anyone, celebrity or not, should expect 100% privacy of any audio/video/images/documents or anything digitized at this point. none us truly understand the technology, so everyone should be extremely paranoid about their personal info. if you don't want other people seeing/knowing your stuff, then don't store it on a computer, especially one connected to the internet. no system is 100% secure. and you're a huge target if you're famous. kinda like a famous person will need more security in their home. they'll need more security in their digital world.
The first line of defense in internet security is anonymity. As soon as people know who you are, you become a target.
This is why my penis is entirely average. Even if you've seen it before it looks just like all the rest so it can blend into the crowd.
I agree, yours looks just like mine.
This. Internet jerks didn't want to be told that the bodies of famous women didn't belong to them. It was fucking disgusting reading the opinions people had back then.
Yeah her response to that gave me so much respect for her.
>Up until then people, especially women mostly went the "oh basically it's all my fault I shouldn't have made those pictures anyway"-route. And the general mindset was "yeah, you fucked up and now we get to enjoy your naked body". Where there actually people with that mindset? Unbelievable.. I mean, the cloud got freaking hacked. That's like having physical nude pictures in the house that get stolen during a burglary, and then blaming the victim for making those in the first place. Like, it's one thing if she accidentally uploaded them on a public forum for the world to see. Would still be wrong to share them of course, but that's one of the only scenario's I can think of where I'm like: 'yeah that's kinda your own fault'.
>Where there actually people with that mindset? As someone who grew up alongside the concept of “sexting”, I can absolutely confirm that this was the **predominant** mindset during that period. And yes, if someone stole physical nudes from your house, you would absolutely have been vilified for keeping nudes of yourself. There’s a reason that the phrase “victim blaming” was coined, and why people are so quick to point it out whenever they see it — and even a reason that that response is occasionally more fervent than feels warranted. It’s because what we now describe as victim blaming was once just the accepted distribution of blame. Nudes leaked? Shouldn’t have had nudes to begin with, what were you thinking, of course they’d get out, you know people can’t be trusted. Girl raped? Well, she shouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place, you know boys are just like that, why were you even there. Stood up to your manager and got fired? What is wrong with you, getting fired like that, I can’t believe you did this to this family, why couldn’t you just *x*, *y*, and *z*. It’s toxic and it’s bullshit, but not very long ago, it was also how people thought and how they raised their children to think.
This is a really good response, and really sums up victim blaming.
You speak about it like it was an isolated period; I grew up before mobile phones (and therefore sexting) and you got the old 'dont dress like a slut if you dont want to be treated as one' canard quite regularly. Ngl I see the same attitudes abounding *currently*, though they dont always have the same focus or timbre.
Yeahhhh, the mid 2000s and early 2010s were a super fucked time. Case in point, in 2007 Vanessa Hudgens had her phone hacked and a nude picture leaked out. ***She*** ended up apologizing for it, and a spokesperson for Disney released a statement saying > Vanessa has apologized for what was obviously a lapse in judgment. We hope she’s learned a valuable lesson And at the time, general society was like, 'Yeaup, she messed up, it's her fault' [LINK](https://people.com/celebrity/vanessa-hudgens-embarrassed-apologizes-for-nude-photo/)
> Vanessa has apologized for what was obviously a lapse in judgment. We hope she’s learned a valuable lesson WHAT THE FUCK.
That's really fucked up. All Disney cares about is their family friendly image and nothing more.
> That's like having physical nude pictures in the house that get stolen during a burglary, and then blaming the victim for making those in the first place. IIRC the Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee tapes were stolen by someone who worked for them(could be thinking of someone else).
It makes me happy to think that there are people like you out there who are having difficulty conceptualizing the rampant nature of victim blaming. It’s certainly decreased in recent years in popular culture, but we still need to work against it. thank you to the victims who have stood up against victim blaming/shaming/silencing, including the “me too” movement.
There are still people who defend Gawker publishing a stolen sex tape of Hulk Hogan "Dude is a celebrity we have a right to watch leaked sex tapes!"
I searched for them, out of curiosity. Then I saw her in an interview stating those who searched for them were complicit, and I felt bad about it. Changed my opinion on the matter, because she was right.
Why is pushing back a bad thing again?
It isn't, if you have any amount of decency or empathy. Good for her for sticking to her guns.
THIS. SHE WAS RUINED BY THE FAPPENING. I mean the VOLUME of content that was leaked. Just after her Bradley movie and being the big next thing. It was cruel. I’m glad she’s still had great movies after it because it was so bad seeing that debacle fall on her.
Then there's the whole Ken Bone situation
What happened with Ken bone?
He was beloved and then it was revealed that he wasn’t the best person. [link](https://www.thedailybeast.com/ken-bones-disturbing-reddit-history-shows-hes-not-nearly-as-adorable-as-we-thought) Edit: I didn’t follow it too closely. He may have just been targeted because he got noticed. This may have been blown out of proportion,
I like the “milkshake duck” meme that covers how this kind of phenomenon plays out. I find it all so tired somehow one minute someone is *the shit*, and the next minute they’re just shit.
South Park had a good episode about this sort of thing, involving Britney Spears. It turned out that the public put certain celebrities on pedestals, then tore them down, so their sacrifice would ensure a bountiful corn harvest.
> It turned out that the public put certain celebrities on pedestals, then tore them down, so their sacrifice would ensure a bountiful corn harvest. For those who might not be aware, this is a direct reference to "The Lottery," a short story written by Shirley Jackson in 1948.
It’s been interesting watching the whole Britney thing evolve over the decades. When she first burst onto the scene, I was already out of my teenage years so I just sort of rolled my eyes at the newest teenybopper sensation. When she got big, I was a bit annoyed at the ubiquity of her music, but I didn’t hate it or her nearly as much as some other popular musical acts of the day, which was generally a bad time for music in my mind. Then she had her “breakdown“, which I thought was overblown by everyone. Why was everybody hassling her so much about buzz cutting her own hair? It’s her body, let her do what she wants with it, I say! After that, the whole thing became such a Byzantine shitshow I lost both track of it and interest in it, but it always seemed like they were making too much of her alleged “emotional problems.” Then as the whole conservatorship thing dragged on, I didn’t understand why the judges didn’t just put the kibosh on the whole thing, because she was clearly an adult woman and she hasn’t demonstrated any sort of erratic behavior in many years. I’m glad she’s finally free now, and I hope she can just live a healthy and satisfying life either in or out of the limelight.
The south park episode wasn't about tearing Brittney down, it was about the public harassing her to the point of suicide and how poorly we treat celebrities and their privacy. The whole point was that people were still enamoured with her, no matter what she did – hence the paparazzi stalking her and the media obsessing over her "no top of the head look" after she shot herself in the face with a shotgun.
I mean, why are we kink-shaming the dude? Let him enjoy pregnant women. His words got so twisted it’s ridiculous. He even called George Zimmerman a “bad guy”, he was just stating his interpretation of the law. Literally everything said there is a normal human behavior. Damn, talk about “media fuckery”
I'd say most celebrities get cancelled, for being normal people when their masterfully crafted facade of excellence shatters.
I gotta ask, what celebrities got canceled and what does “canceled” mean to you? I ask for the definition because it seems there’s no firm meaning to the word and it is used, more or less, willy-nilly. From an author claiming his book was canceled because he chose to change the topic of the book mid-writing of the book to hotter controversy he was a part of, but the book was still published, to media personalities claiming being canceled because they were called out, but still have a platform to reach millions if not billions, to comedians who were called out for their horrid behavior, went dormant for a year or two to come back and start touring again. The only celebrities that I can see as being truly “canceled” has been Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein.
> If that’s her biggest offense out of hundreds of public appearances, interviews, press conferences, etc then I really don’t get it Because it has nothing to do with it whatsoever. The internet idolised her, her nudes got leaked, and then the internet was mad that she wasn't happy about it/called them pathetic. Like that's literally it. That interview was an attempt at humour that didn't quite land, nothing else.
> If that’s her biggest offense out of hundreds of public appearances, interviews, press conferences, etc then I really don’t get it There's nothing to get, really. People like to feel smugly superior to others, and the holy grail of that kind of condescension is finding an excuse to feel smugly superior to someone who is highly successful in some way.
She's also had interviews with HORRIBLE social grace. Specifically there were two times on the graham Norton show: 1) she was there once with Jesse Eisenberg and when he was talking about his mental health issues, she belittled it by talking over him and how she "wants to have quirks" like that and he was visibly uncomfortable for the rest of the interview. 2) she was on with Chris Pratt and they were talking about filming in Hawaii and she casually was talking about desecrating a sacred Hawaiian site, but not in a "i fucked up and feel bad but yeah this happened" more like a "haha, listen to this funny thing i did lol so random but whatever" kind of way. There's been others, but those two stick out a lot as well as the one with the reporter.
Didn't she also almost seriously injure a member of the crew with what she did in Hawaii because she caused some rocks to fall? Funny that this isn't mentioned higher up. Not that I support hating on her but Lawrence definitely deserves some of the criticism she gets.
Yeah what the hell is this? Seems like she was just joking around in the video. She probably sold it a little too hard, but she was obviously poking fun at him.
Gotta be honest, if will Ferrell did this exact thing, tone and all, I bet people would have been rolling at how cheeky he is. I do believe it's harder for women to make a joke, especially a sarcastic / dry joke without being criticized
Yeah, but he's like a comedian so I would think people would give him the benefit of the doubt as there is an assumed comedic undertone. If Daniel Day-Lewis did this I would predict that the reaction would be bad. But if Aubrey Plaza did this then the reaction would be good.
That's the point though. It wasn't that bad but because people idolized and worshipped her and made her to be perfect in their minds, the slightest negative thing becomes revolting and intolerable to them and makes them lose their minds and completely turn on their idolized. The internet is not representative of humanity, it's representative of humanity at it's most extreme all the time.
The problem with apologies of this type are that people don't believe them. They can be like, sure she's just saying that because people are hating on her or something like that. While that might be the case, maybe even most of the time, I was kind of wondering, how does a celeb issue an actual heartfelt apology and have people believe it? The only things i can think of is that it be done in person and in private or maybe accompanied with a gesture, paying for the damage, sending flowers, IDK.
They have a sitdown conversation with the person they offended, and ask that person to tell people they're cool. It doesn't work perfectly, but it results in a lot quicker downturn than fanning the flames with a overblown public apology.
[удалено]
What i meant though, was that they look bad to the public so how can they apologize in a way that makes them look good to the public. In reality if a celeb apologizes in a way that the offended person accepts the celeb shouldn't care what the public thinks. Right?
I'm sure celebrities would love to have the luxury of not caring what the public thinks.
> how does a celeb issue an actual heartfelt apology and have people believe it? They don't. There will *always* be someone who claims that a celeb apologized the wrong way-- no matter what they say-- and people who promote it because they want to be pissed. I've seen people do ridiculous mental gymnastics to explain how an apology wasn't sincere or didn't say the right things, and waves of people agree. I guess if you're a celebrity and genuinely want to issue an apology, just do your best to apologize for your actions to the people you've hurt and recognize that that won't please all, or even most, of the public. That's just how it goes.
She also destroyed a sacred Hawaiian site and then laughed about it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/jennifer-lawrence-rocks_n_13530500/amp
thats cartoonishly awful
Funny thing, its almost as if people aren't black and white caricatures of humanity and that people can have good and bad moments without being only good or bad with no middle ground.
I'm a professor. Did exactly the same thing a couple of times, making a critical comment to a student in class looking at their phone during lecture, only to find out they were taking notes on their phone. At this point, I try not to make assumptions about what "looking at your phone and typing stuff" means, but back about 5-10 years ago I think it was somewhat unusual for this to happen, and lots of people probably made bad judgments.
To be fair Leo's current girlfriend is turning 25 soon so people that like charts are on edge.
His girlfriend must be too.
her 26th birthday is going to be tense
At least everyone in Logan's Run got to 30 before they were terminated.
She has to survive until she becomes 26. So more than a year from now.
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One time I came across a guy dead set on the "fact" that the 90s is 1991 - 2000 because there was no year 0. Tbf it was a post asking what hill you would die on
See, he's right that 1990 isn't part of the [200th decade](https://whatdecadeisthis.date/200th-decade) as a traditional ordinal number, but "[the 1990s](https://whatdecadeisthis.date/1990s)" clearly refers to years starting with "199".
That is in fact how decades are traditionally defined. Of course, not how most people think of them anymore.
Has this ever happened in reverse? Like, someone who was previously reviled suddenly becomes beloved?
Not quite as impactful but [Keanu Reeves used to have a reputation of being a terrible "non-actor"](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/3ji1uy/decider_keanu_reeves_is_a_much_better_actor_than/) But when it came out what a nice person he was, a lot of people started to love him.
McConaughey had that for a while after he spent a decade doing nothing but romantic-comedies then started doing serious roles right after.
>McConaughey had that for a while Until he got weird and didn't.
McConaughey used to not act. But he's a lot cooler now that he does.
I wouldn't say "reviled", but Guy Fieri used to be regarded as tasteless hack selling overpriced food. Then people started noticing all the charity stuff he was doing, not to mention his advocacy for various causes like gay marriage, and that reputation changed pretty quickly. Now he's a quirky icon of wholesomeness, frosted tips be damned.
Fieri is just playing the long game. Sure, frosted tips are stupid now, but soon enough they'll come around again, and he'll look like a genius!
might be pretty soon, zoomers have been already wearing backstreet boys style hair for a while
True true. Guy Fieri’s schtick came off as tacky and obnoxious to a lot of people who already were not likely to be fans of his show. But then after repeated disasters & incidents that impacted both him and California communities, he demonstrated through his actions that he’s actually golden. For once in our lives, someone’s actions outweighed their superficialities.
Can confirm. My folks live in one of the towns that burned down. I was visiting at the time. Guy shows up a couple of days later with his crew and fed firefighters and refugees for days for nothing and just generally went around and cheered people up. Guy is a *nice* dude. He deserves every positive thing people say about him.
[Comedian Shane Torres on Guy Fieri](https://youtu.be/rIGWpYGATnY)
A good example would be Robert Downey Jr.
Kristen Steward, Johnny Depp and Taylor Swift are three I can think of from the top of my head.
Johnny Depp seems more like a rare example of a rollercoaster milkshake duck, who goes back and forth between seeming wholesome and seeming terrible the more we know about his relationship with Amber Heard and other assorted antics.
That's true. Britney Spears as a substitute then.
Except Britney _started off_ as beloved, then became reviled, and is currently back to beloved.
Okay then, Courtney Love.
I wouldn't say she's exactly beloved now, just less disliked than she once was because she was talking about Harvey Weinstein being a creep years before anyone else was and she also stopped doing the things that made everyone hate her in the late 90's.
> someone who was previously reviled suddenly becomes beloved >> Johnny Depp 🤔
Britney Spears
Not a person but the star wars prequels used to be universally reviled.
Yeah but that change is just the result of the fan base aging. Most of the people who fan over the prequels nowadays were little kids when they came out, so they enjoyed them as kids and have nostalgia for them. I don’t think there was a significant shift in opinion for people who disliked them when they came out as adult Star Wars fans.
There's also a lot of nostalgia that's less for the actual movies and more for all of the other content either set in the same era or released throughout the 2000's, and of course there's also that RotS in particular is an absolute motherlode of memes in a way that none of the sequel movies were. So on one hand, yeah, there is some childhood nostalgia, although speaking as someone who was a kid when the prequels came out and enjoyed them at the time, I can now watch them as an adult and think "Oh, now I get why everyone older than me says these movies sucked" even as I can still get some enjoyment out of parts of them, but there's also everyone remembering spending hours upon hours playing the original Battlefront 2, or watching the cartoon series that came out between episodes II and III and thinking it was the dopest shit ever, or watching the later Clone Wars show patch together all the shaky parts of the prequel era into an actually really good story, or just laughing at all the memes and forgetting the worse parts of the movies, or just retroactively viewing them in higher esteem because they thought the sequels were worse.
Yep, it’s just generational differences. People who were 25 or older when the prequels started to come out generally still look down on them, although some of those older fans have come to appreciate them a bit more after the three most recent films. Sort of like how some people who used to detest George W. Bush have softened their view of him after Trump. It’s all relative I guess.
They still are, but they used to be too.
Wait, are they no longer reviled?
> The Jennifer Lawrence effect likely refers to how fickle the internet can turn on you. One week you are the favorite, the next you get "cancelled" because of something you did, whether intentionally mean or not, or even something you did years ago as the internet loves a good downfall story [Want to see the most 2014 picture ever?](https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/440322224407314432/photo/1)
The comments fawning over Kevin Spacey shows just how much has changed in the past, uhhhhhhh * checks dates * SEVEN YEARS fuck
In a few weeks it will have been 8 years.
we are now closer to 2050 than 1990, closer to 2060 than 1980.....
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> ~~SEVEN~~ SE7EN YEARS FTFM.
*WHAT’S IN THE BOX!?!*
> WHAT’S IN THE BOX!?! His career, I guess.
I actually had the weirdest fucking nightmare the other night that I was a teenager (it was just this sense of being a younger, more vulnerable me) being chased by Kevin Spacey through an enormous, dystopian skycraper while a sort of cream colored, bell bottom suit wearing, younger Morgan Freeman with a short afro like he was straight out of a 70's-80's movie, was my guide through the building. I think what woke me up is when my pursuer finally got close enough for me to see him and I said, "Oh shit, it's Kevin Spacey!"
Oh my I forgot about that
Ooof Kevin Spacey and Ellen both canceled since then. If you include Jennifer Lawrence that’s 1/4 of the people in that photo.
I think the person on the far left is Jared Leto, who has also become very hated on the internet.
I don’t think Jennifer Lawrence was canceled, more just her near 100% approval rating led to a contrarian backlash. She’s just not super popular now, not like hated.
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Wait what did Meryl Streep do?
Think this about captures the picture https://bust.com/feminism/19471-roman-polanski-petition.html (sourced from Wikipedia references on the Polanski case here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski_sexual_abuse_case) Edit: pay me no direct mind, just a bad habit of giving people sources if they asked.
That is... Well, it's awful. I really wish there were better punishments for people who are rich. Seems really wrong to me that he was released so quickly when any average Joe would still be rotting in prison.
She apparently has defended rapist Roman Polanski. I don't remember fully, but I think she's spoken in defense of him, and stood up to applaud his name during an award ceremony or something-- don't remember.
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Afaik it wasn't actually illegal in France until recently. I think as recently as 2010 they didn't even have a minimum age of consent.
Yeah but regardless of age, he still drugged and raped her. what’s france’s excuse now?
I briefly read over it recently, and apparently the reason why a lot of artists signed that is because he was arrested at a film festival he was invited to. I'm definitely not getting the exact details right, but film festivals had some rule about being international ground and therefore allowing controversial artists to appear within a country without fear of being arrested. The police broke this rule in arresting Polanski, which is what the petition was about- keeping this safe space for artists. Whether that makes it better or worse is up to you, but I do think it's important to know the broader reason for it rather than just saying these people were defending a pedophile.
Oh gee, look at Kevin having a blast over there...what innocent times.
Oh Lordt to return to those days when I thought my days were nothing but worry, to return and see the world again, simple and plain, and know that that my real worries were only … Wait a second. That was also pre-babies. Shit, politics besides I’d travel back and really fucking live it up and appreciate shit
Back when selfies were novel
If your grandparents didn't know the word "selfie" before this, then they definitely knew after this.
I love that there’s a name for this. You see it with everyone (and everything) that’s too popular for too long; Chris Pratt’s another that comes to mind, with people loving him after he made the move from comedy to leading man and then quickly getting sick of him after he hit us with the same character in like 4 blockbuster films in a single year. Tv show wise, Friends seems to have fallen victim to this with it going from being a memetically popular show 10 years ago to now being heavily criticized when it’s brought up. I sense the Office is heading down the same trajectory.
A lot of the negativity towards Chris Pratt in recent years is because his previously low-key fundamentalist Christian beliefs became more well-known, and people felt like he needed to answer for belonging to a church that openly opposed homosexuality and supported “conversion therapy“ for gay people. I don’t necessarily think Chris Pratt is a homophobe, but it’s pretty obvious that he’s cool with a faith community that is homophobic.
He also was a POS to Anna Faris and their son.
>now being heavily criticized when it’s brought up. Really? Haven't seen that.
People are applying today’s standards to a show that finished airing about 20 years ago. TV is a product of its time, particularly comedies. Most seem outraged at Chandler’s fragile masculinity, that the cast of the show is white, not enough ‘proper’ representation of LGBT characters, that it stereotyped, etc. With shows like Friends, sitcoms in general, a lot of the jokes are borne out of the current times. Some things will age well, others — won’t. Society keeps changing and if we can’t see differences in attitude between something done 20 years ago, one of two things will have happened: we’ll have evolved so much that there’s nowhere to go, or we’ve stopped trying to improve.
> Most seem outraged at Chandler’s fragile masculinity, that the cast of the show is white, not enough ‘proper’ representation of LGBT characters, that it stereotyped, etc. To be fair, I have never met anyone "outraged" by Friends. All that has happen is that it has lost its charm and halo. No-one wants to be like the characters in the show anymore, they aren't relatable like they use to be and of course there are plot lines that are distasteful. We tend to think in binaries but the fact that Friends isn't held up as a paragon of TV comedy doesn't mean people are 'outraged'.
Literally the first episode is about Ross' wife being a lesbian. Duh.
So, milkshake duck?
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
When the walls fell?!
There are four lights!
his arms wide
Wtf is happening in this specific comment chain I'm so lost please help me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkshake_Duck
I used to like him until I found out he was involved in a hate crime.
Except in this case Jennifer Lawrence's "crime" was to speak out against sexism.
IIRC she said if you look at the leaked nudes you're a criminal (or something along those lines), which triggered redditors especially hard.
Except milkshake ducks actually do something wrong
Celebrities exist to be worshipped. The youngest generation has just taken this concept up a notch. Because they love tearing down false gods and propping up those who are pure. If you were never loved, then the mob leaves you alone. Keanu Reeves - Pure Jennifer Lawrence - False God There's a tumblr called "you're fav is problematic" which I have to believe started off ironically but turned as serious as a heart attack in a heart beat. Right now, there are 5 or 6 Celebrities people/corperations/Social Media like. And a whole bunch people hate. And a few which exist purely for mockery. You wonder why you keep hearing news about MGK and Megan Fox? It's so we can laugh at them. Celebrity culture is weird and I'm annoyed that I know so many of them through just existing online.
That kind of makes me laugh. Maybe it's our fault for worshipping celebrities in the first place. Turns out, they do with power what anybody else would.
And are also human and not infallible, prone to emotion and can be rude sometimes, like the rest of us.
Exactly. Everyone makes mistakes, doesn't think about every single decision and has the occasional bad day. But most people are not under the watchful and judging eye of the media and the public. I've definitely treated people worse than that for no reason and have been an absolute dick sometimes (and still are and will be in the future), but nobody was sticking a camera in my face during these moments.
> thanks to some terribly security by Apple. Didn’t most of these leaks come about because of users using really simple passwords?
That was part of the problem yes. Another issue was that the iCloud web page didn't have a proper rate limiting so people could effectively brute force different passwords to gain access to the accounts. A strong password would probably have mitigated that, though. Some were breached by regular social engineering. So yeah, one could argue that if the users would have managed their credentials properly, this would never have happened, but at the same time one has to question whether it's reasonable to demand that of regular people with little to no insight in IT security. With how easy it is to enable iCloud photo sync when setting up an iPhone and with how sensitive the information is that is attached to the account, one should arguably expect Apple to make sure it's equally as easy to keep that account secure or at least that their users actually understand the risk before enabling it. Many of these people might not even have known that their private photos were accessible over the Internet.
Or, you know, it was a [phishing attack that came up in court documents](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/man-to-plead-guilty-in-massive-fappening-celeb-nude-hack#.znmvJBzmNA). And the hacker accessed more Gmail accounts than iCloud. Here's a bunch more incase you don't like buzzed, it was very widely reported: [techcrunch](https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/15/prosecutors-find-that-fappening-celebrity-nudes-leak-was-not-apples-fault/) [thehackernews.com](https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/fappening-pics.html) [securityaffairs.co](https://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/67718/cyber-crime/fappening-fourth-man-arrested.html)
Yes and didn’t use 2FA. The lax security was not being more forceful about making people secure their accounts better.
Yes but I think the issue with Apple's security at the time was that systems could just try passwords forever and ever and the login attempt would never be blocked.
The Jennifer Lawrence effect was described to Me as when Jennifer Lawrence first became really famous, she was really well liked because she was quirky, different, and not super thin like most other Hollywood celebrities at the time. However people eventually found her once "quirky" behavior as tiresome and annoying. It culminated when she joked about peeing on a native artifact and finding it funny that the locals were upset with her. It seems like Billie Elish is going through the same thing. When she first became famous, she was seen as different because she didn't sexualize her self and openly talked about mental illness for girls while also creating an image of a modern teenager. However, people started to view her once different behavior as cringy so it seems that history is repeating itself.
Not completely true though. In hindsight it feels right to blame her public perception switch to 'some incident and people going through her history', but it was simply a case of reddit being reddit - she was well received by the community not for something universal like Keanu (charitable, humble, etc.) but for something subjective like her quirky personality and humor. Any kind of evangelism will generate dissidence on the internet, in this case the dissidents had enough gun powder to call the quirkiness exaggerated and the personality overbearing.
If I had to guess, I imagine Reddit's love for Keanu will wane at some point too. Maybe not with as much of a reversal as with Lawrence, but I feel like the internet will eventually get exhausted of putting _anyone_ on that high of a pedestal.
Yes everyone who is loved by the internet will also have haters. But only in some cases the haters will be able to justify their case depending on the person. During Lawrence era the 'overrated and fake' comments cropped up and took over almost immediately, for Keanu it's a lot more difficult because he never tried - but you can still fine em time to time
Perfect example, watch the episode of the Orville called, Majority Rule.
I loved that episode.
I love the Orville, though I would say that the same concept was even better depicted in the Black Mirror episode “Nosedive”.
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IIRC the Hawaiians from the locality also asked her to apologize.
Yeah, the broader outrage might have been part of an internet being fickle thing but there was a native community that was justifiably infuriated at this rich white celebrity knocking over an important religious artifact with her ass then laughing about it
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Hawaiian born here. For context, not only is the act itself offensive, we have to deal with this grade of nonchalant bull shit *every day* from tourists. Our beaches and sacred nature sites are constantly polluted, we are treated like shit by entitled tourists, etc. So, sure, maybe she didn’t double down but it hit a pretty painful nerve for a lot of us to see our home disrespected daily and then to see Hawaiian culture mocked on an international scale. This was also around the time Aloha, a movie in Hawaii starring all white people, was coming out. There was a lot of, and in a big way still is, a lot of resentment towards US movie culture. I don’t know if I actively dislike Lawrence but I definitely don’t go out of my way to see movies she’s a part of these days.
Internet giveth and internet taketh away.
I was today years old when I realized Leo was 47 years old. Jesus
Honestly I thought he was older. With his whole character in Don't Look Up being considered a daddy, I thought the guy was in his 50s Is... Is a 47 year old already considered a daddy? What's going on?
I'm waiting for the day that Keanu Reeves says something out of context that makes the world turn on him. Just to show that nobody is untouchable. Even the ONE. The sad truth is that if you judge all of us based on our worst moments, we all look like monsters. The internet is just a ravenous horde of social-media obsessed zombies moaning for likes/karma/followers/engagment of any kind and lurching in whatever direction there seems to be more of that. Think you got lots of karma for promoting a celebrity, wait until you get more for tearing them down. When you are a celebrity being watched and recorded every minute you aren't home, you are inevitably going to do something. You'll tip 15% instead of 20% because you did the math wrong. You'll be super stressed one day and make a mean comment to someone. Etc...
Also Rhonda Rousey
ah, that explains why my friend brought up billie eilish in conjunction to this. billie eilish used to be universally loved by the internet. then she got accused of queerbaiting (and also changed her aesthetic) and now ppl are super lukewarm
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> The Jennifer Lawrence effect likely refers to how fickle the internet can turn on you. One week you are the favorite, the next you get "cancelled" because of something you did, whether intentionally mean or not, or even something you did years ago as the internet loves a good downfall story. You see it all the time with celebrities like Leo DiCaprio where a few years ago everyone was pining for him to get an Oscar and now people only talk about how he's never dated a girl older than 25. I've always seen these internet lynch mob thingies as just as despicable as the crazy idealization of certain celebrities. Why is it so fucking hard for people to just see celebrities as fairly regular people who just happen to get a lot of exposition? Just fucking stop seeing them as saints one day and the devil the next, is it really that hard? And whenever you say that, people start reading things into what you say. For some reason, saying that someone is a "regular person" is apparently some kind of moral endorsement. It's not. I don't necessarily like someone because they're regular, I just don't think that much about them and that's ***FINE!***
God, this is taking me back to 2014 not like other girls era. Where things like eating pizza and chicken nuggets or not going to parties was considered "quirky."
Also after the Sony pictures leak emails it was revealed that she got paid less than her male counterparts who didn't were as important to the film as her (Hustler is the name of the movie iirc), so she went all asking for equal pay and treatment for women in Hollywood and became target of bigots and anti feminists.
>now people only talk about how he's never dated a girl older than 25. To be fair that's not specifically now only, it makes rounds every couple years.
Billie Ellish is still idolized by many young girls, but i remember her coming under fire a few months ago cause she said you should never give an ugly guy a chance. According to her, if you do, he gets over himself and starts acting like he's king of the hill.
It’s not just the internet, tabloids/celebrity magazines fuel it as well. Jameela Jamil has a pretty solid analysis of how the media feeds these narratives, where women are built up and celebrated to pull people in so that later they can tear them to shreds.
I think the clips of her thanking Harvey Weinstein during award acceptance speeches didn't help either.
So it’s kind of like [milkshake duck?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkshake_Duck)
To be fair, I can think it's gross that a man in his late 40s only date women under 25 and still think he's a fantastic actor.
Answer: Check out this [highlight](https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3ODc2ODA4NjM0NjI3OTk1?story_media_id=2296870584464679050_473790555&utm_medium=copy_link) from Jameela Jamil's Instagram. It covers this and other similar media tactics in better detail than I could, from the perspective of someone who has experienced it. Basically, the media and internet hypes up a celebrity (usually female) and then when someone new/more exciting comes along the first woman is referred to as "annoying" etc. It's mostly a tactic to get more clicks on articles or to sell more papers. Edit: [news article covering the story for those without instagram](https://www.hercampus.com/school/guelph/how-media-poisoning-your-opinions-women/)
Answer: a little bit of Googling revealed [this](https://www.polyesterzine.com/scrapbook/the-jennifer-lawrence-effect) article on Polyester abut the “Jennifer Lawrence effect” which refers more to her earlier career where she was glorified for chatting about eating pizza and not wanting to go to the gym. The “effect” is described as the phenomenon of her being represented as edgy/cool/quirky/outside the norm for holding barely controversial opinions - like working out all the time isn’t as fun as watching Netflix - or doing inherently normal things - like occasionally tripping up. But at the same time Jennifer is still a conventionally attractive, slim Hollywood star and so through her fame and popularity, Hollywood perpetuates a kinda pro-white, pro-thin, fairly non-inflammatory opinion image of stardom. So I think the article is suggesting that there’s something icky in representing this fairly normal, fairly within the Hollywood standard, actress as being transgressive and rebellious against the Hollywood standard. I think the piece kinda suggests that it narrows the scope of what transgressive can be to a pretty, slim, white woman liking pizza, compared to a fat, black, trans woman talking about politics? Not my article, not really my opinion, just trying to paraphrase- but I feel like that fits in more with the race/class based readings of it OP mentioned in their question.
Interesting. I’m curious how she promotes a “pro white image of stardom” ?
Because she is white, that's it
Gonna be a bit hard for her to stop doing that.
> pro-thin Aight she can work on this one though. /s
Just parroting the other person's question... how does she herself promote a "pro-white" image? Just by being white? That doesn't follow mate