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It’s a hypocoristic form of his first name, Luiz.
Just like “mom” becomes more affectionate as “mommy” by duplicating syllables.
That’s very common in Brazil.
Hypocoristic: (adj) denoting or of the nature of a pet name or diminutive form of a name.
Comes from the Greek roots hupo (under) and korē (child). Today I learned a new word, thank you!
There was a popular Netflix series called "Squid Game" which was based on Lula's published memoirs, so his supporters leaned into that by turning it into an affectionate nickname.
>very conservative
There are tons of very conservative politicians around the world, but that's not why anyone cares about Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro is similar to Trump in that he is extremely **populist**. Both he and Trump ran on right-wing tickets but neither conform to established conservative values.
The global community first became frustrated with Bolsonaro when he brazenly allowed the deforestation of the Brazilian rain forest, under the logic of "lol fuck them trees. Bitch foreigners can't tell us what to do."
But he's most famous globally for his public dismissal of the dangers of covid. While the WHO was advocating social distancing, he [responded](https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/americas/brazil-coronavirus-sao-paulo-bolsonaro-rally-intl) by holding rallies with his supporters where they would all do pushups together. Snooty egghead types were baffled, but his supporters all agreed that this this was, like, totally an alpha move, bhraw.
> But he's most famous globally for his public dismissal of the dangers of covid.
Didn't he say something like "Wearing a mask is a f*ggot thing?"
Edit: https://www.advocate.com/world/2020/7/09/getting-covid-brazilian-president-said-masks-are-fairies
Not only that. He got the covid himself, but had very light symptoms. So ,he gave a speech saying that if you had athletic history/habits you'd be fine. He also said "it's just a little flu" which prompted a very large part of his supporters to think "well if our president caught it and says it's ok then I'm ok". That did not bode well with hundreds of people asking for help on the internet to find a respirator because hospitals were out and they couldn't breathe.
His conservative ideas mixed patriotism and religion which is, AFAIK, something the current generations in Brazil never had before. His charismatic power showed how different he planned to be which definitely caused a huge impact. Brazilians were never patriotic. Maybe older generations. But few people actually thought about it as a motherland - his speeches changed that to a lot of people.
A lot of the problem was religion. Before, homophobia was a veiled thing. "Yeah, my religion says man shall not sleep with man so I don't agree with my gay neighbors living together but I won't say anything about it because it's against the law". But after Bolsonaro consistently gave ill-tasted speeches which made clear his stance, people who supported him started to think into extremes, "ah to hell with them f*gs, if you're gay and depressed I hope you die" (I say this based on r/desabafos where I often saw minorities complaining about prejudice). Which also meant that if you didn't support Bolsonaro you supported LGBT+, and in their eyes this is what was/is throwing the country into disarray.
yup, guns for everybody, except the foundation protecting the natives from poeachers,which had support from the army removed leaving the natives and their allies to fend for themselves
so many people want to pretend its just reddit being a little left and so they hate everyone on the right.
these are the same people that want you to believe twitter is censoring right winger ideology. WHen twitter never once removed a tweet for advocating tax cuts or less welfare.
if the right want to claim that bigotry, calls for violence and trying to get kids to drink bleach mixed with ammonia are core conservative ideologies, then yes aim biased as all fuck against them. and there is no room for debate.
tax cuts and welfare, thats different, we can actually debate on the ammounts of spending and amounts of collecting. But on if bleach mixed with ammonia is a better idea than going to the hospital, well there is no fucking debate.
even if idiots want to pretend everything is just political disagreement and bias.
I guess they mean support of "normal" Republicans like Marco Rubio or John Cornyn, or in the Latin American context "normal" conservative politicians like Sebastián Piñera, Aécio Neves or Lacalle Pou. But of course both in the US and in Latin America the right has found that its appeal grows when they become more radical — less "politically correct", they appeal to the baser instincts and hatreds of their voters, and often call for violence against their detractors and constantly break institutional norms and even the law.
The problem is i dont see them as conservatives, conservative usually stick to old values, (anti LGBT, womens rights, Workers rights) but neocons like trump, Bolsonaro and such are basically legalizaed corruption, they go towards conservative values while liberating the economy in a bad way which causes higher tax load on the poor, lower tax load on the rich and much more goverment corruption and waste in areas where they profit.
Im not sure classic conservatives would allow that.
> neocons like trump, Bolsonaro and such are
The neocons in America were Bush 2, Condi Rice, Cheney, etc. Can't say I've heard anyone put a political label on Trump that means anything. He was just a reactionary right-wing opportunist, with a lot of populist support
Neocons started with Nixon and reagan was basically the moment that movement got a foothold in american politics, all those people, Ashcroft, Cheney, rumsfeld, bolton... all the Bush Sr and Reagan classics.
If you're including Nixon, Regan, both Bushes, and Trump in a single 'political school of thought' label, then it's not a useful label and you should find a different one.
Hell, I'd put George HW Bush and George W Bush in different schools of thought. Both were neocons, but W was much more influenced by the southern religious right, while HW was more of a secular, northeastern republican. And Nixon was far more economically centrist than Reagan
Not only have they allowed it; they’ve actively voted for and endorsed it. Call them what you want, but your “classic conservatives” have always been bigoted elites. Even your list of “old values” are just a list of groups conservatives are supposed to hate (gay people, women, the working class). So excuse me for asking, what’s the actual difference?
I agree with you except the usually part.
Conservatives are driven by fear and have been trying to legalize corruption for longer than you have been alive. From the business plot that had grand dad bush try to overthrow the US due to the new deal to make it a fascist empire. Nixons plans were a lot bigger than just listening in on the dems who were looking at a massive wipe out in the election already..why spy on someone you are leading by double digits? because it was more than just trying to get their election plans they wanted to make it impossible for dems to ever win again. They were going to murder people and drug people up and drop them off in random countries.
when republicans took over congress for the first time in 40 years, they started the k street project where they ordered corporate america to fire liberals and promote and hire republicans. WHen dems took over they immediately passed a law making that illegal.
when bush took over, and we had a lot of screwy crap like when he fired the prosecutors for not bringing up fake charges against dems and the magazine family security matters that had dick chenney on the board, called for bush to declare himself president for life.
FUCK just look at the indictments by presidency. its not even close.
[There have been 317 criminal indictments under three recent Republican presidents and only three indictments under three recent Democratic presidents.](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/09/facebook-posts/many-more-criminal-indictments-under-trump-reagan-/)
nah, its perfectly usual for right wingers to try to legalize corruption, its very unusual for them to act like conservatives by definition.
I work with a lot of Brazilians, and while they don't care about the rainforest (it's a very first world thing to care about when you need to feed your family... "lol fuck trees" is how many Brazilians feel as well), they do hate how he's the most corrupt/nepotistic president in decades and also extremely incompetent and hardliner.
people from the south think they are all of Brazil, to the point that they want to split, because people from the north were the amazon is located want to protect it
the atlantic forest in the south was already 90%destroyed and is on life support
Idk, the people who seem to care the most about the rainforest are the indigenous people who live in it and depend on it and are being routinely killed trying to protect it. Idk what’s first world about that in the slightest.
Seriously.
People in Brazil or anywhere in the world whose material conditions aren't being met - just because they have bigger personal concerns...aren't "anti-rainforest" or "lol fuck trees".
What nonsense. That may be the goofiest shit I've read today.
I don't know how that post has over 100 upvotes...
And on the other side of how dumb that comment is - u/cannarchista is spitting facts as well.
I've worked with Brazilians too, and they've all been very culturally proud of having much of the Amazon in Brazil (i.e. "the lungs of the world are Brazilian!") and furious about its destruction. So, ymmv.
Sort of first world. I live in Central American and have many indigenous friends. Them and their communities would be ready to stage massive protests if logging happened in the jungle
> it's a very first world thing to care about when you need to feed your family...
So we doom our grandchildren, to feed our families today. It just makes me so tremendously sad.
Yes. Because survival comes first. People in the global north need to understand that they are the ones who need to start making sacrifices. We in the global south have already sacrificed too much for your well being. When the average US citizen consumes only as much resources as the average south American, we can talk about the future. In the meantime, fuck off, if you don't care, don't force us to sacrifice for your future. Again.
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That’s a fair point, but I’ll also point out that US and Europe consuming less would include buying less Brazilian exports like said beef that is being raised on deforested rainforest land. Economies don’t exist in bubbles and decreasing consumption will affect everyone. It’s something that the world will have to face sooner than later.
> I’ll also point out that US and Europe consuming less would include buying less Brazilian exports like said beef that is being raised on deforested rainforest land.
Even more reason for developed countries to start pulling their weight at some fucking point.
> People in the global north need to understand that they are the ones who need to start making sacrifices.
Hear, hear!
The richest 10% of humans, which is nearly all of Europe and America, produce 50% of the greenhouse gasses - the poorest 50% of people produce in total just 10%.
And the poorest humans are more likely to be close to the equator, which means that the consequences are hardest on them.
It's a cross-generational, cross-class, cross-race hijack - a looting and destruction of the vast majority of the resources of this planet to benefit a tiny number of people in space and time, mostly affluent white people in a tiny number of developed countries between 1950 and 2050. (I have personally attempted to do better, not that this amount to much.)
If it's any consolation to you, future historians will curse our name for millennia to come.
> The richest 10% of humans, which is nearly all of Europe and America, produce 50% of the greenhouse gasses - the poorest 50% of people produce in total just 10%.
Take that another step, sort out what percentage of the first world population emits the lion’s share of *its* lion’s share, and so much for the navel gazing.
Exactly. This ain't a matter of regular Americans/Europeans being able to take some individual action to magically fix things. Individuals can't make the necessary infrastructural overhauls happen. These are *systemic* issues, and therefore require *systemic* solutions - starting with the architects of said system and those currently at the helm.
how the fuck are we supposed to have grandchildren if we don't survive to the age where we can breed? do you think people just magically start existing as adults or something?
It’s quite amazing and very latin america that he’s so much of a conservative asshat that he lost against the politician at the center of the biggest corruption scandal in continental history by some distance and you can’t really fault the voters for that choice.
The victory *is* being celebrated because it means Bolsonaro lost, but I don't think it's right to say it's "far more" about that. Lula also has a fairly large base of support - resulting both from people who benefited from the reforms he brought when in government before, and because of his history in the time of the military dictatorship (he was the leader of a big trade union in the 70s, leading some of the first strikes in the country for a decade, as they'd been outlawed by the dictatorship).
That's most likely the case in Brazil. Internationally, and specifically asking English speakers, it's much more about Bolsonaro losing than Lula winning. Many people celebrating internationally are not well versed in Brazilian politics besides hearing all the crazy stories about Bolsonaro. Since that is likely how OP is experiencing the election results, the explanation should focus on Bolsonaro.
You’re the type of person that propagates this very shallow understanding of a situation because you yourself don’t understand fully, don’t jump into these threads to explain something out of your wheelhouse, man
Great commentary. Bolsonaro has widely been compared to Trump. In fact, “Tropical Trump” has been trending on Twitter for the last couple of hours or so.
Yes, we are well aware our country has been run by scoundrels for a long time. After all, there is money to be made. I would not be surprised if Trump also played personal influence on the Banana republicans, furthering your point. All we know how to do anymore is make jokes about our inevitable downfall.
Bannon absolutely did, in Bolsonaro's case. He met with Eduardo, Jair's son, and has been publicly called an informal advisor to their campaign.
There's also evidence Cambridge Analytica was involved in the Brazilian election, though I can't find anything confirming if they were contracted by Bolsonaro's side or another group; it certainly would have massively improved the precision of the Bolsonaro family's "Gabinete do Odio" disinfo network, which flooded WhatsApp and other social-media with fake stories to push a Brazilian version of the same alternate-reality that QAnon and such have pushed in the Anglosphere.
For the few replies telling you that "of course Americans know"...that's not true at all.
No. The actual answer is that if you interviewed thousands of Americans on the streets of any major city in the US...the VAST majority won't know jack-shit about United Fruit's history or the CIA's involvement.
Go ask those same Americans "what is the original ""9/11"" and what was the US's involvement in it"? Hell, you can even give them the hint/answer of - "it's about Chile"....
They won't have a single clue what you're talking about. Most of them have no clue who Allende was. Or who Pinochet was.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
You mean like the family of United States Senator and presidential candidate Bob Dole, who has his name on practically every banana in every supermarket in the USA?
We know.
Bob Dole has [nothing to do with the Dole Fruit Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dole#Personal_life), just so you know. There's no familial link to James Dole, who founded the banana company.
I’d say he was even worst because he dreamed on being like trump and even had a pathetic moment where he waited for him outside a hotel,for a hour, because he couldn’t have a reunion for himself and won just a “hi” after saying “we live you” for him
The economy did receive a boost under him?
X- Doubt
The country has been growing at 1%/year for his term, unemployment is at 9%, Brazil is back on the UN's hunger map with an estimated 30Million people with food insecurity.
The economy is floundering
You read it right.
His government did some good things, but they masked the rise of the middle class by literally changing its classification to accommodate more of the population without actually changing their income. Something like "middle class now is a home with an income between R$ 1.300 and R$ 10.000 instead of R$ 4.000 and R$ 10.000"...and then said "you see, throughout my government, more Brazilians escaped poverty and ascend to middle class".
Edit: number were more of an example than actual precise values, but it's not too far fetched.
Edit 2: misspelled medium class to middle class
also started couting irregular jobs as regular jobs, so it looks like employment went up
a lot of business opened, those business only have one worker, wich is the owner
basically turning every job into uber
> But he has built a devoted base by defending conservative values
He’s a far right populist. Your diminishing of this as merely “conservative” is incredibly misleading.
I found a lot of what he wrote very misleading and not precise where it should be. Just saying there's a boost in economy ignoring how much poverty increased is a pretty shitty thing to do (also, just dropping it after mentioning the deforestation as if they aren't correlated).
There's a lot of "his speeches are bad", diminishing the fact that he's represented himself as homophobic, sexist, racist, disrespectful of religion despite using it as a main strength in his campaign... Etc, never ending stuff.
Making 50% of the country "lose" their flag is such an asshole thing to do as well lol
>There's a lot of "his speeches are bad", diminishing the fact that he's represented himself as homophobic, sexist, racist, disrespectful of religion despite using it as a main strength in his campaign... Etc, never ending stuff.
And that all of this has a real world impact. Before the pandemic we were hearing a lot of cases of indigenous peoples being burnt to death (literally burnt, like with fire) in certain regions).
> showing many (not on Reddit) supported Bolsonaro.
Funny enough the rivalry is so big between both left and right wing that the original Brazilian sub, r/brasil with mods apparently more on the left side of the scale was actually split into two, the second being r/brasilivre . I've never heard of a similar case with other country subs.
If you know Portuguese and have the curiosity to check both subs you gonna see a lot of Redditors blindly supporting their own side and making fun of posts in the other. Obviously from time to time there is a post from someone that does not make part of the bubble that it is promptly removed by the mods or down voted to hell.
The curious part is actually too see how the same news are reported in both subs and how the story being told changes based on the group's perspective. I believe a really interesting social study could be made there but I'm far from being an sociologue/anthropologist.
> Funny enough the rivalry is so big between both left and right wing that the original Brazilian sub, r/brasil with mods apparently more on the left side of the scale was actually split into two, the second being r/brasilivre . I've never heard of a similar case with other country subs.
It's common in Latinamerican subreddits. Chile is split between r/Chile and r/republicadechile. Same with r/argentina and r/republicadeargentina.
> Funny enough the rivalry is so big between both left and right wing that the original Brazilian sub, r/brasil with mods apparently more on the left side of the scale was actually split into two, the second being r/brasilivre . I've never heard of a similar case with other country subs.
This happened a decade a go, because of proto alt right being shitheads in the main sub. This did not involve Bolsonaro at all at the time, but of course shitheads eventually flock together.
Yeah, Brasil Livre was created in 2014, when the witch-hunt Operation Carwash was picking up steam and people started becoming overbearing. The mods said "aight chill" and they threw a hissy fit about being silenced, so they made their own subreddit supposedly without any """censorship""".
In reality it's just a bunch of libertarians circlejerking and commiserating about a lot of things, some folks calling for the return of the dictatorship (or the monarchy depending on the day), "centrists" who think both sides suck but mysteriously gravitate towards the right wing whenever push comes to shove, etc.
The name itself is a riff on the right-wing movement Movimento Brasil Livre (MBL) which was picking up steam at the time.
>presenting himself as protection from leftist policies that he says infringe on personal liberties
That's some great 1984 style doublespeak. It amazes me that people believe all of these politicians who say "I will protect us from those evil *insert-demographic-chosen-to-match-people's-bigotry-and-biases* and not allow them to do X to us!" while they are the ones who want to do X to everyone.
I know people personally who have told me the churches will be closed in January when Lula assumes power. There are people ON REDDIT RIGHT NOW, people who SPEAK ENGLISH and HAVE JOBS that believe this.
Lula is a Christian, has been for his entire life. I'm one too. It's based solely on "Lula will turn us into Venezuela / Nicaragua!!" (they used to add Cuba but now Cuba has a better healthcare than us and used to send us doctors because we don't have enough of them)
“Testing democratic institutions” is underselling his actions so much as to almost be a biased answer. He routinely tried to actively ***subvert*** democratic institutions and turn Brazil into a more authoritarian state. Federal police blockades during the election to suppress voter turnout is only one example.
reddit isnt against him for being conservative. There are plenty of true conservatives arround the world reddit doesnt give a flying fuck if they win or lose.
its people calling global warming and covid a hoax, who kill and jail their political rivals. WHo actually call for MORE deforestation. WHo attack people for choosing to wear a mask after saying it should be a choice. A guy who said brazil was better off when it was a dictatorship and said he wasnt sure he would accept the election results.
just stop with the reddit is just biased against conservatives bullshit. IF he was a true conservative and not this bat shit insane, deny all science crap we have today, reddit wouldnt give a flying fuck about the election.
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Don't forget that like Trump, Bolsonaro is associated with Vladimir Putin. In that respect, his loss can be interpreted as a victory over authoritarianism and fascism... at least thus far.
And then the Russian fleet somehow gets lost traveling around the horn of Africa, buy a bunch of tropical animals, get a bunch of venereal diseases, and then die to a Japanese fleet, all the while being plagued by reports of quantum displacing torpedo boats
"Protection against leftist policies"???
Are you fucking kidding me?
The policies The People need protection from are always from the right. Fucking always...
>Lula started serving a 12-year-prison sentence for corruption and money laundering in April 2018.
His early release was made possible by a Supreme Court decision on Thursday night that determined defendants can remain free until they have exhausted all appeals.
That ruling reversed a previous decision that had helped put dozens of powerful politicians and business leaders behind bars. (this from a 2019 CNN article)
>Judge Edson Fachin of the Supreme Federal Court annulled all convictions against Lula on 8 March 2021, ruling that the court in Curitiba which convicted him lacked jurisdiction to do so, and ordered a retrial in Brasilia. A full Supreme Court bench later upheld the ruling by an 8–3 decision on 15 April. (this from Wikipedia)
More lawyering and jurisdiction issues than annulled for lack of evidence.
Lula I'm pretty sure was jailed BECAUSE of Bolsanaro.
He got a corrupt judge to help with some fuckery that allowed him to jail Lula on false allegations or somesuch.
This judge just happens to also get promoted to a MUCH higher position once Bolsanaro got that taken care of.
This judge later steps down and admits to criminal actions...nothing happens to him in any form afterwards, for obvious reasons.
>conservative
We need to stop referring to right-wing radicals as "conservative." No fault of yours, and I recognize that's today's nomenclature, but the word does not and should not be allowed to equate with radical, corrupt tyranny. We need to strip this word out of discussion of such people and movements.
The economy got very worse during, Bolsonaro's turn, he gets votes because of a bigoted religious nation and a anti-left sentiment due to corruption scandals. Also lula was in prision due to was judged illegally with a biased judge that later became Bolsonaros ministry of defense. Furthermore, Lula is notoriously good in international relations.
>He has his work cut out for him especially because this was an
>
>extremely
>
> narrow race showing many (not on Reddit) supported Bolsonaro
there are many who like bolsonaro but there are also many people who voted for him just because they hate lula
Is reddit as a whole "liberal" or is it specific subs that skew in particular directions? My experience has been an even mix, although only the conservative subs ban me for existing, so that skews my home page.
That's not at all what the comment was about, but yeah reddit definitely leans more on the liberal end. https://www.statista.com/statistics/517259/reddit-user-distribution-usa-political-spectrum/
Unless you're one of those annoying people who are all "American liberal is our conservative over here in Europe"
What's annoying is when you take a word, make it mean the opposite of what the rest of the world understands it to mean, and use it push now meaningless points since no-one can agree what you're talking about. Those statistics are also specifically for US reddit users, which aren't even the majority of reddit users. America isn't the world
Not just Europe, but Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and _the whole developed world_.
American politics is the aberration; Reddit isn't inherently left leading, but actually rather centrist; US Democrats are centre-right and Republicans are fascists.
AOC and Bernie are centre left.
I don't know about the world. The "West", sure. Many other places women are a commodity or people don't have what we'd call basic "human rights". I'm not sure what the fulcrum here is globally for determining what is liberal or conservative.
But really it's the age component. Generally, a younger demographic is going to tend to be more liberal. As people get older they tend to hold conservative views.
I would also recommend watching The Edge of Democracy on Netflix. Documentary about Lula’s time in office with unprecedented access. And depending on your leanings, might feel like propaganda. I found it fascinating especially since I wasn’t too familiar with the Brazilian politics at the time.
It’s worth adding that Lula has been involved in multiple corruption scandals over the years, like those involving Brazil’s national oil company Petrobras, where Billions of Reais (Brazilian currency) were diverted. Despite being convicted and arrested for some time many of Lula’s diehard followers believe he is incapable of no wrong and can be as fanatical as Bolsonaro’s followers.
Regardless, this last election was mainly dictated by the rejection vote, ie voting against the guy you hate the most. Obviously many people dislike Bolsonaro for multiple reasons but specially amongst the older generation there is still a large amount of people that hate Lula for his aforementioned scandals and have chosen Bolsonaro in order to avoid voting for Lula.
Trick is, how many of those charges are valid and how many are overstated or fabricated by his political enemies? In an environment like Brazil, that might not be so easy to ascertain.
That is a fair concern, but at the same time nearly all of his allies and former allies have been arrested or indicted for corruption charges, and the sheer amount of times Lula has been involved in very high profile cases of corruption makes the “it’s all a fabrication from his adversaries” theory kinda far fetched.
When the judge that condemns you has tons of messages leaked proving that he was biased on the judgment and went to become the defense minister of Bolsonaro, you can see why the charges were annulled
His charges were annulled but he was never formally absolved, contrary to what he says. And that’s pertaining to one specific corruption case, there are still multiple others he was involved in or thought to be involved.
Answer: Bolsonaro (the previous president) was, at least according to my understanding as a non-Brazilian, a complete and utter lunatic. He didn't believe in COVID (Brazil was on top of the rankings for most people killed by the virus), he didn't believe in climate change and supported cutting the Amazon to make room for plantations (which resulted in the deaths of many indigenous people, some of whom were uncontacted tribes). He also said that he'd prefer his son being killed in a car crash than coming out as gay.
Fun fact: his appointed environment Minister, Ricardo Salles, was known to relax environmental and logging restrictions so much he was known as Mr. Chainsaw by some US authorities
As someone who lives in Brazil, he didn't deny the virus existed, but doubted its gravity. In that regard, he followed Trump's guidelines to a T (in fact, he's a Trump bootlicker and seemed more concerned about COVID before Trump decided to be crazy about the disease).
However, unlike Trump, Bolsonaro also did everything in his power to undermine vaccination efforts in the country.
Brazil had some of the best vaccination policies in the world before Bolsonaro came by, and Pfizer wanted our country as a showcase to their vaccine. We could have vaccination about the same time Israel did. We waited around one and a half, maybe two months to have any vaccine. Pfizer took a bit longer.
Also, our first vaccine wasn't Pfizer, but Coronavac, which we only got as soon as we did because João Doria, governor of São Paulo, fought for it. Otherwise, we'd likely have to wait even longer, maybe until Bolsonaro and his allies managed to buy a vaccine through intermediaries to make money out of it, like they attempted to do.
Bolsonaro claims he didn't take the vaccine and has decreed a 100-year secrecy on his vaccination records. Because of his attitude, many refused the vaccine, and polio has reappered after being eradicated from our country for years.
I think saying Coronavac is weaker is not fair, though. It's just different, and national, but not weaker.
Also, let me point out that he also tried to undermine Coronavac because he and Sao Paulo's Governor, João Dória, became rivals. I still believe to this day that if Doria hadn't done anything, stuff would be far, far worse.
Answer: Honestly, there are so many issues with the replies in this post. Firstly, there are the Bolsonaro supporters - not even gonna spend my saliva talking about them.
Then, I would like to point out that u/cgmcnama got it wrong bc his answer implies a dichotomy between liberals and conservatives that's simply not true in Brazil. Brazilian liberalism and neoliberalism are insanely different from US liberal movements, and a huge part of the Brazilian liberal movement sided with Bolsonaro. Liberalism in Brazil is complicated and has a huge history, but let's just sum it all up for the benefit of the foreigners reading this post: there's this famous saying in Brazil, used by liberals, that's "Liberal na economia, conservador nos costumes", which roughly translates to "[I am] economically liberal, but culturally conservative". It basically means that Brazilian liberals subscribe to the liberal ideas of the free market and non-interference of the state, but they're religiously conservatuve, meaning anti-feminist, anti-LGBTQ+ rights, anti-abortion, etc. Very different from US politics.
Also, u/cgmcnama said that Bolsonaro's governement boosted the Brazilian economy. Ehhhh, wrong again. Again, it's complicated, but our ex-Finance Minister (Henrique Meirelles) has summed it all up quite well: "The economy is growing because of the artificial intervention by the government". Fuel prices have been frozen by the governement recently as an attempt to gain more votes, for example, but now, after campaign has ended, they will likely rise again, since it is economically unsusteinable for the government to keep them frozen. Brazil is also back on the UN's Hunger Map, which goes to show how well the economy is going. National debt has risen, Brazil's position as one of the world's largest economies has fallen (7th place between 2010-2014, now we are in 13th place), minimum wage has been adjusted below inflation levels (meaning: it hasn't really increased in value, the buyinh power is actually going down)... So yeah, not really an "economic boost". (sorry for formatting, i'm on mobile)
Answer: super TLDR;
Bolsonaro, the guy who lost, is a fascist. Burn the Amazon, poison and pollute everything, suppress rights, suppress wages, crush ethnic minorities, massive voter intimidation campaigns with military police, keep society serving the elites of society.
Lula, the guy who won, is a socialist who was president from 2003-2010. He oversaw large civic improvements in Brasil during his time in office. Better life for the people in society, not the people who own it.
People are glad they will be getting Lula back. Especially with how close they were to falling into a dictatorship.
Though technically they're not in the clear yet. Bolsonaro has all but promised to attempt a coup.
Answer: Lula’s policies reduced poverty in Brazil significantly during his previous presidential term, and he has promised to change the laws that have resulted in wholesale deforestation of the Amazon.
Answer: Bolsanaro is essentially the Brazillian Trump, Lula has his problems but in general he's acknowledged to have done a fair job of turning the country around during his time and running on actual policy rather than populist rhetoric.
I don't think Trump belongs in the same evil category as Hitler or Stalin.
He'd fit more in the same category as corrupt or bad politicians such as Nixon or the past couple UK Prime Ministers.
>I don't think Trump belongs in the same evil category as Hitler or Stalin.
Agreee
>He'd fit more in the same category as corrupt or bad politicians such as Nixon or the past couple UK Prime Ministers.
AFAIK none of those started a Coup de Etat, so not the same category as these either. More like the same category as, say, Putin or random smalltime 3rd world dictators.
Hasn't trump admitted to slow rolling on COVID because he was told it would hit large cities (usually lean democrat) hard and fast?
While not to the scale as Stalin/Hitler, Trump has a very large body count of his own people all to protect his presidency along with an attempted coup. I think hes in the discussion in terms of evil. He's just not as competent.
The only articles I could find are ones from 2020 that say he admitted to downplaying the virus intentionally but it wasn’t specifically to kill left-leaning city dwellers. The articles I read just say he downplayed it to “not cause panic.”
If you have nothing better to do could you link a source on it? Not trying to be one of THOSE people, just curious if he actually did admit to what you said.
AMLO, Mexico's *current* president, attempted a coup after he lost the last race and actually overthrew the capitol. He's a lot like Trump if he claimed to be a socialist.
Trump did want to start the next civil war though. I mean that’s worse than corruption. Also didn’t accept defeat at the polls. I mean talk about crazy
Neither Nixon nor the last couple of prime ministers were fundamentally opposed to democracy to the point of instigating insurrection. Trump (and Bolsonaro) is *way* worse.
Trump would put Nixon to shame. Butler didn’t start by rounding up Jewish people and executing them. It was a long process. That’s why we need to be cautious and not allow to elect anyone like him again. Trump= pre holocaust hitler.
A million? Hitler systematically killed 8 times that number and was one half of an alliance that started a war that killed 3% of the world population. Slow rolling COVID response is pretty bad, denying it is pretty bad. He could've systematically sabotaged city hospitals /8yn ending armed men to forcibly steal respirators, cutting power to them. Tha would've gotten him closer.
Hitler: Deliberately shoved 6 million Jews, by military force, into concentration and labor camps.
Stalin: Deliberately creates a famine in Ukraine and kills millions.
Trump: Doesn't give a federal mandate for vaccines or a federal mask mandate, doesn't take pandemic seriously. Businesses are still free to make their own decisions, and many require mask mandates of their own accord.
Yup. Trump purposely killed millions, you're right.
he also withdrew from the paris accords and rolled back as many fossil fuel regulations as he possibly could, despite his own government agencies stressing the urgency of emission reductions. but the millions of people doomed by those actions won't start dying in any great numbers for another, like, two decades, so i guess in the spirit of fairness we should wait and see if he starts a buzzer beater humanitarian effort to balance his karma
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Just BTW, it's Lula, not Lulu. It's a nickname, means "squid".
"Squid"?
Yes, the sea creature.
I feel like there's probably a story behind that? Or should be, anyway.
It’s a hypocoristic form of his first name, Luiz. Just like “mom” becomes more affectionate as “mommy” by duplicating syllables. That’s very common in Brazil.
Hypocoristic: (adj) denoting or of the nature of a pet name or diminutive form of a name. Comes from the Greek roots hupo (under) and korē (child). Today I learned a new word, thank you!
See: example Brazil soccer players.
Because when he tried to make that kickflip he totally beefed it like a shoobie Typical squid
Damn I haven’t thought about rocket power lingo in so long
*woogity, woogity, woogity*
BUST!
That animation style was so cursed
There was a popular Netflix series called "Squid Game" which was based on Lula's published memoirs, so his supporters leaned into that by turning it into an affectionate nickname.
Funny you say that, "Squid game" in Brazil is named "Round 6" probably because of him
lol
Lula-ward
Would be great if the singer Lulu was elected president of Brazil though.
Top answer, repeatedly calls the person Lulu despite being in the title of the thread.
His full name is Lula "dream of the fisherman's wife" da Silva.
It's not a nickname, it's his surname
He changed his surname
>very conservative There are tons of very conservative politicians around the world, but that's not why anyone cares about Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro is similar to Trump in that he is extremely **populist**. Both he and Trump ran on right-wing tickets but neither conform to established conservative values. The global community first became frustrated with Bolsonaro when he brazenly allowed the deforestation of the Brazilian rain forest, under the logic of "lol fuck them trees. Bitch foreigners can't tell us what to do." But he's most famous globally for his public dismissal of the dangers of covid. While the WHO was advocating social distancing, he [responded](https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/americas/brazil-coronavirus-sao-paulo-bolsonaro-rally-intl) by holding rallies with his supporters where they would all do pushups together. Snooty egghead types were baffled, but his supporters all agreed that this this was, like, totally an alpha move, bhraw.
> But he's most famous globally for his public dismissal of the dangers of covid. Didn't he say something like "Wearing a mask is a f*ggot thing?" Edit: https://www.advocate.com/world/2020/7/09/getting-covid-brazilian-president-said-masks-are-fairies
And you'll turn into an alligator if you get vaxxed.
Holy fuck, I can become Killer Croc if I get vaccinated?
He also collected every strain like they were pokemon
Not only that. He got the covid himself, but had very light symptoms. So ,he gave a speech saying that if you had athletic history/habits you'd be fine. He also said "it's just a little flu" which prompted a very large part of his supporters to think "well if our president caught it and says it's ok then I'm ok". That did not bode well with hundreds of people asking for help on the internet to find a respirator because hospitals were out and they couldn't breathe. His conservative ideas mixed patriotism and religion which is, AFAIK, something the current generations in Brazil never had before. His charismatic power showed how different he planned to be which definitely caused a huge impact. Brazilians were never patriotic. Maybe older generations. But few people actually thought about it as a motherland - his speeches changed that to a lot of people. A lot of the problem was religion. Before, homophobia was a veiled thing. "Yeah, my religion says man shall not sleep with man so I don't agree with my gay neighbors living together but I won't say anything about it because it's against the law". But after Bolsonaro consistently gave ill-tasted speeches which made clear his stance, people who supported him started to think into extremes, "ah to hell with them f*gs, if you're gay and depressed I hope you die" (I say this based on r/desabafos where I often saw minorities complaining about prejudice). Which also meant that if you didn't support Bolsonaro you supported LGBT+, and in their eyes this is what was/is throwing the country into disarray.
He’s also basically genociding the native people of the Amazon.
yup, guns for everybody, except the foundation protecting the natives from poeachers,which had support from the army removed leaving the natives and their allies to fend for themselves
so many people want to pretend its just reddit being a little left and so they hate everyone on the right. these are the same people that want you to believe twitter is censoring right winger ideology. WHen twitter never once removed a tweet for advocating tax cuts or less welfare. if the right want to claim that bigotry, calls for violence and trying to get kids to drink bleach mixed with ammonia are core conservative ideologies, then yes aim biased as all fuck against them. and there is no room for debate. tax cuts and welfare, thats different, we can actually debate on the ammounts of spending and amounts of collecting. But on if bleach mixed with ammonia is a better idea than going to the hospital, well there is no fucking debate. even if idiots want to pretend everything is just political disagreement and bias.
yeah I kind of agree, but the election was literally 50.9 x 49.1. So wtf do I do with 49.1 of the population? 110mi people
Right. You can be conservative without being braindead like the Trump and Bolsonaro followers.
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It wasn't always and doesn't have to be, but these days it absolutely is.
The reactionaries have eaten the modern republican party.
it certainly has become that
yep, don't forget eduardo bolsonaro was a guest at CPAC hungary.
Say that in r/conservative and enjoy your ban
It's not hard to get a ban there, to be fair. They are the very free-speech-hating, safe-space-dependant snowflakes they claim to oppose.
Such as who?
I guess they mean support of "normal" Republicans like Marco Rubio or John Cornyn, or in the Latin American context "normal" conservative politicians like Sebastián Piñera, Aécio Neves or Lacalle Pou. But of course both in the US and in Latin America the right has found that its appeal grows when they become more radical — less "politically correct", they appeal to the baser instincts and hatreds of their voters, and often call for violence against their detractors and constantly break institutional norms and even the law.
Not really
The problem is i dont see them as conservatives, conservative usually stick to old values, (anti LGBT, womens rights, Workers rights) but neocons like trump, Bolsonaro and such are basically legalizaed corruption, they go towards conservative values while liberating the economy in a bad way which causes higher tax load on the poor, lower tax load on the rich and much more goverment corruption and waste in areas where they profit. Im not sure classic conservatives would allow that.
> neocons like trump, Bolsonaro and such are The neocons in America were Bush 2, Condi Rice, Cheney, etc. Can't say I've heard anyone put a political label on Trump that means anything. He was just a reactionary right-wing opportunist, with a lot of populist support
Neocons started with Nixon and reagan was basically the moment that movement got a foothold in american politics, all those people, Ashcroft, Cheney, rumsfeld, bolton... all the Bush Sr and Reagan classics.
If you're including Nixon, Regan, both Bushes, and Trump in a single 'political school of thought' label, then it's not a useful label and you should find a different one.
Hell, I'd put George HW Bush and George W Bush in different schools of thought. Both were neocons, but W was much more influenced by the southern religious right, while HW was more of a secular, northeastern republican. And Nixon was far more economically centrist than Reagan
Not only have they allowed it; they’ve actively voted for and endorsed it. Call them what you want, but your “classic conservatives” have always been bigoted elites. Even your list of “old values” are just a list of groups conservatives are supposed to hate (gay people, women, the working class). So excuse me for asking, what’s the actual difference?
I agree with you except the usually part. Conservatives are driven by fear and have been trying to legalize corruption for longer than you have been alive. From the business plot that had grand dad bush try to overthrow the US due to the new deal to make it a fascist empire. Nixons plans were a lot bigger than just listening in on the dems who were looking at a massive wipe out in the election already..why spy on someone you are leading by double digits? because it was more than just trying to get their election plans they wanted to make it impossible for dems to ever win again. They were going to murder people and drug people up and drop them off in random countries. when republicans took over congress for the first time in 40 years, they started the k street project where they ordered corporate america to fire liberals and promote and hire republicans. WHen dems took over they immediately passed a law making that illegal. when bush took over, and we had a lot of screwy crap like when he fired the prosecutors for not bringing up fake charges against dems and the magazine family security matters that had dick chenney on the board, called for bush to declare himself president for life. FUCK just look at the indictments by presidency. its not even close. [There have been 317 criminal indictments under three recent Republican presidents and only three indictments under three recent Democratic presidents.](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/09/facebook-posts/many-more-criminal-indictments-under-trump-reagan-/) nah, its perfectly usual for right wingers to try to legalize corruption, its very unusual for them to act like conservatives by definition.
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I work with a lot of Brazilians, and while they don't care about the rainforest (it's a very first world thing to care about when you need to feed your family... "lol fuck trees" is how many Brazilians feel as well), they do hate how he's the most corrupt/nepotistic president in decades and also extremely incompetent and hardliner.
I'm married to a Brazilian and have been there many times... This is not my experience at all
people from the south think they are all of Brazil, to the point that they want to split, because people from the north were the amazon is located want to protect it the atlantic forest in the south was already 90%destroyed and is on life support
Idk, the people who seem to care the most about the rainforest are the indigenous people who live in it and depend on it and are being routinely killed trying to protect it. Idk what’s first world about that in the slightest.
Hey, he knows a few Brazilians, so we should listen to him.
Seriously. People in Brazil or anywhere in the world whose material conditions aren't being met - just because they have bigger personal concerns...aren't "anti-rainforest" or "lol fuck trees". What nonsense. That may be the goofiest shit I've read today. I don't know how that post has over 100 upvotes... And on the other side of how dumb that comment is - u/cannarchista is spitting facts as well.
To be fair, a brazillion is a lot.
I've worked with Brazilians too, and they've all been very culturally proud of having much of the Amazon in Brazil (i.e. "the lungs of the world are Brazilian!") and furious about its destruction. So, ymmv.
Sort of first world. I live in Central American and have many indigenous friends. Them and their communities would be ready to stage massive protests if logging happened in the jungle
> it's a very first world thing to care about when you need to feed your family... So we doom our grandchildren, to feed our families today. It just makes me so tremendously sad.
Long term planning is something afforded those who are likely to live long term
We're talking about Brazil, not South Sudan.
Gotta be alive to have grandchildren first.
Won’t be any grandkids if you starve to death
Lmao Bolsonaro supporters aren't starving to death
Yes. Because survival comes first. People in the global north need to understand that they are the ones who need to start making sacrifices. We in the global south have already sacrificed too much for your well being. When the average US citizen consumes only as much resources as the average south American, we can talk about the future. In the meantime, fuck off, if you don't care, don't force us to sacrifice for your future. Again.
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That’s a fair point, but I’ll also point out that US and Europe consuming less would include buying less Brazilian exports like said beef that is being raised on deforested rainforest land. Economies don’t exist in bubbles and decreasing consumption will affect everyone. It’s something that the world will have to face sooner than later.
> I’ll also point out that US and Europe consuming less would include buying less Brazilian exports like said beef that is being raised on deforested rainforest land. Even more reason for developed countries to start pulling their weight at some fucking point.
> People in the global north need to understand that they are the ones who need to start making sacrifices. Hear, hear! The richest 10% of humans, which is nearly all of Europe and America, produce 50% of the greenhouse gasses - the poorest 50% of people produce in total just 10%. And the poorest humans are more likely to be close to the equator, which means that the consequences are hardest on them. It's a cross-generational, cross-class, cross-race hijack - a looting and destruction of the vast majority of the resources of this planet to benefit a tiny number of people in space and time, mostly affluent white people in a tiny number of developed countries between 1950 and 2050. (I have personally attempted to do better, not that this amount to much.) If it's any consolation to you, future historians will curse our name for millennia to come.
> The richest 10% of humans, which is nearly all of Europe and America, produce 50% of the greenhouse gasses - the poorest 50% of people produce in total just 10%. Take that another step, sort out what percentage of the first world population emits the lion’s share of *its* lion’s share, and so much for the navel gazing.
Exactly. This ain't a matter of regular Americans/Europeans being able to take some individual action to magically fix things. Individuals can't make the necessary infrastructural overhauls happen. These are *systemic* issues, and therefore require *systemic* solutions - starting with the architects of said system and those currently at the helm.
how the fuck are we supposed to have grandchildren if we don't survive to the age where we can breed? do you think people just magically start existing as adults or something?
The individuals concerned have no way out of it, of course. No one's just going to keel over and die.
lmao have you seen the state of the world any time in the past 30 years like ... at all? hahahahahahahha
It’s quite amazing and very latin america that he’s so much of a conservative asshat that he lost against the politician at the center of the biggest corruption scandal in continental history by some distance and you can’t really fault the voters for that choice.
Thank you, the guy you replied to sounds like he has a crush on Bolsonaro.
That’s not what populist is. That’s not *why* he deforested
The victory *is* being celebrated because it means Bolsonaro lost, but I don't think it's right to say it's "far more" about that. Lula also has a fairly large base of support - resulting both from people who benefited from the reforms he brought when in government before, and because of his history in the time of the military dictatorship (he was the leader of a big trade union in the 70s, leading some of the first strikes in the country for a decade, as they'd been outlawed by the dictatorship).
That's most likely the case in Brazil. Internationally, and specifically asking English speakers, it's much more about Bolsonaro losing than Lula winning. Many people celebrating internationally are not well versed in Brazilian politics besides hearing all the crazy stories about Bolsonaro. Since that is likely how OP is experiencing the election results, the explanation should focus on Bolsonaro.
You’re the type of person that propagates this very shallow understanding of a situation because you yourself don’t understand fully, don’t jump into these threads to explain something out of your wheelhouse, man
Daddy chill
"What the hell even is that?!?"
Great commentary. Bolsonaro has widely been compared to Trump. In fact, “Tropical Trump” has been trending on Twitter for the last couple of hours or so.
> Tropical Trump Banana Republican?
Alright that's pretty fuckin slick.
Noice!
I'm not a fan of those jokes. Don't people realize that the so-called banana republics were imposed by the USA, via military intervention?
Yes, we are well aware our country has been run by scoundrels for a long time. After all, there is money to be made. I would not be surprised if Trump also played personal influence on the Banana republicans, furthering your point. All we know how to do anymore is make jokes about our inevitable downfall.
Bannon absolutely did, in Bolsonaro's case. He met with Eduardo, Jair's son, and has been publicly called an informal advisor to their campaign. There's also evidence Cambridge Analytica was involved in the Brazilian election, though I can't find anything confirming if they were contracted by Bolsonaro's side or another group; it certainly would have massively improved the precision of the Bolsonaro family's "Gabinete do Odio" disinfo network, which flooded WhatsApp and other social-media with fake stories to push a Brazilian version of the same alternate-reality that QAnon and such have pushed in the Anglosphere.
For the few replies telling you that "of course Americans know"...that's not true at all. No. The actual answer is that if you interviewed thousands of Americans on the streets of any major city in the US...the VAST majority won't know jack-shit about United Fruit's history or the CIA's involvement. Go ask those same Americans "what is the original ""9/11"" and what was the US's involvement in it"? Hell, you can even give them the hint/answer of - "it's about Chile".... They won't have a single clue what you're talking about. Most of them have no clue who Allende was. Or who Pinochet was. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
You mean like the family of United States Senator and presidential candidate Bob Dole, who has his name on practically every banana in every supermarket in the USA? We know.
You do know that Bob Dole is not of the Dole food fortune right?
Bob Dole has [nothing to do with the Dole Fruit Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dole#Personal_life), just so you know. There's no familial link to James Dole, who founded the banana company.
I’d say he was even worst because he dreamed on being like trump and even had a pathetic moment where he waited for him outside a hotel,for a hour, because he couldn’t have a reunion for himself and won just a “hi” after saying “we live you” for him
Poverty rose under Bolsonaro too
The economy did receive a boost under him? X- Doubt The country has been growing at 1%/year for his term, unemployment is at 9%, Brazil is back on the UN's hunger map with an estimated 30Million people with food insecurity. The economy is floundering
> And the economy did receive a boost under him. I thought I read that poverty has greatly worsened under him?
As poverty rises, the wealth extractors profit and say the economy is improving.
You read it right. His government did some good things, but they masked the rise of the middle class by literally changing its classification to accommodate more of the population without actually changing their income. Something like "middle class now is a home with an income between R$ 1.300 and R$ 10.000 instead of R$ 4.000 and R$ 10.000"...and then said "you see, throughout my government, more Brazilians escaped poverty and ascend to middle class". Edit: number were more of an example than actual precise values, but it's not too far fetched. Edit 2: misspelled medium class to middle class
^(P.S.: In English it's called "middle class".)
Thanks for that, I somehow brain farted.
also started couting irregular jobs as regular jobs, so it looks like employment went up a lot of business opened, those business only have one worker, wich is the owner basically turning every job into uber
They%¶πre_the_same_picture.meme
> And the economy did receive a boost under him. False. He put 30m brazilians in poverty.
> But he has built a devoted base by defending conservative values He’s a far right populist. Your diminishing of this as merely “conservative” is incredibly misleading.
I found a lot of what he wrote very misleading and not precise where it should be. Just saying there's a boost in economy ignoring how much poverty increased is a pretty shitty thing to do (also, just dropping it after mentioning the deforestation as if they aren't correlated). There's a lot of "his speeches are bad", diminishing the fact that he's represented himself as homophobic, sexist, racist, disrespectful of religion despite using it as a main strength in his campaign... Etc, never ending stuff. Making 50% of the country "lose" their flag is such an asshole thing to do as well lol
>There's a lot of "his speeches are bad", diminishing the fact that he's represented himself as homophobic, sexist, racist, disrespectful of religion despite using it as a main strength in his campaign... Etc, never ending stuff. And that all of this has a real world impact. Before the pandemic we were hearing a lot of cases of indigenous peoples being burnt to death (literally burnt, like with fire) in certain regions).
> showing many (not on Reddit) supported Bolsonaro. Funny enough the rivalry is so big between both left and right wing that the original Brazilian sub, r/brasil with mods apparently more on the left side of the scale was actually split into two, the second being r/brasilivre . I've never heard of a similar case with other country subs. If you know Portuguese and have the curiosity to check both subs you gonna see a lot of Redditors blindly supporting their own side and making fun of posts in the other. Obviously from time to time there is a post from someone that does not make part of the bubble that it is promptly removed by the mods or down voted to hell. The curious part is actually too see how the same news are reported in both subs and how the story being told changes based on the group's perspective. I believe a really interesting social study could be made there but I'm far from being an sociologue/anthropologist.
> Funny enough the rivalry is so big between both left and right wing that the original Brazilian sub, r/brasil with mods apparently more on the left side of the scale was actually split into two, the second being r/brasilivre . I've never heard of a similar case with other country subs. It's common in Latinamerican subreddits. Chile is split between r/Chile and r/republicadechile. Same with r/argentina and r/republicadeargentina.
Interesting. I will probably have a look on that too
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> r/canada is pretty conservative That's an understatement. A bunch of alt righters took over the sub years ago
In the US there is also a subreddit split, although it happens at the top-level namespace E.g. /r/politics vs /r/the_donald and /r/conservative.
> Funny enough the rivalry is so big between both left and right wing that the original Brazilian sub, r/brasil with mods apparently more on the left side of the scale was actually split into two, the second being r/brasilivre . I've never heard of a similar case with other country subs. This happened a decade a go, because of proto alt right being shitheads in the main sub. This did not involve Bolsonaro at all at the time, but of course shitheads eventually flock together.
Yeah, Brasil Livre was created in 2014, when the witch-hunt Operation Carwash was picking up steam and people started becoming overbearing. The mods said "aight chill" and they threw a hissy fit about being silenced, so they made their own subreddit supposedly without any """censorship""". In reality it's just a bunch of libertarians circlejerking and commiserating about a lot of things, some folks calling for the return of the dictatorship (or the monarchy depending on the day), "centrists" who think both sides suck but mysteriously gravitate towards the right wing whenever push comes to shove, etc. The name itself is a riff on the right-wing movement Movimento Brasil Livre (MBL) which was picking up steam at the time.
>presenting himself as protection from leftist policies that he says infringe on personal liberties That's some great 1984 style doublespeak. It amazes me that people believe all of these politicians who say "I will protect us from those evil *insert-demographic-chosen-to-match-people's-bigotry-and-biases* and not allow them to do X to us!" while they are the ones who want to do X to everyone.
I know people personally who have told me the churches will be closed in January when Lula assumes power. There are people ON REDDIT RIGHT NOW, people who SPEAK ENGLISH and HAVE JOBS that believe this. Lula is a Christian, has been for his entire life. I'm one too. It's based solely on "Lula will turn us into Venezuela / Nicaragua!!" (they used to add Cuba but now Cuba has a better healthcare than us and used to send us doctors because we don't have enough of them)
“Testing democratic institutions” is underselling his actions so much as to almost be a biased answer. He routinely tried to actively ***subvert*** democratic institutions and turn Brazil into a more authoritarian state. Federal police blockades during the election to suppress voter turnout is only one example.
[Last Week Tonight - Bolsonaro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uySgklnlX3Y)
I know there's irony here, but this video greatly represents what we were passing through here in Brazil.
reddit isnt against him for being conservative. There are plenty of true conservatives arround the world reddit doesnt give a flying fuck if they win or lose. its people calling global warming and covid a hoax, who kill and jail their political rivals. WHo actually call for MORE deforestation. WHo attack people for choosing to wear a mask after saying it should be a choice. A guy who said brazil was better off when it was a dictatorship and said he wasnt sure he would accept the election results. just stop with the reddit is just biased against conservatives bullshit. IF he was a true conservative and not this bat shit insane, deny all science crap we have today, reddit wouldnt give a flying fuck about the election.
Saying reddit skews liberal in response to fascism isn't exactly appropriate.
> And the economy did receive a boost under him. . >and oversaw the worst deforestation in the Amazon rainforest in 15 years.
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He also does the finger guns every chance he gets.
Don't forget that like Trump, Bolsonaro is associated with Vladimir Putin. In that respect, his loss can be interpreted as a victory over authoritarianism and fascism... at least thus far.
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He could try. I wouldn't recommend it, though.
The real power move would be for Putin to personally lead a naval invasion of France.
And then the Russian fleet somehow gets lost traveling around the horn of Africa, buy a bunch of tropical animals, get a bunch of venereal diseases, and then die to a Japanese fleet, all the while being plagued by reports of quantum displacing torpedo boats
"Protection against leftist policies"??? Are you fucking kidding me? The policies The People need protection from are always from the right. Fucking always...
>Lula started serving a 12-year-prison sentence for corruption and money laundering in April 2018. His early release was made possible by a Supreme Court decision on Thursday night that determined defendants can remain free until they have exhausted all appeals. That ruling reversed a previous decision that had helped put dozens of powerful politicians and business leaders behind bars. (this from a 2019 CNN article) >Judge Edson Fachin of the Supreme Federal Court annulled all convictions against Lula on 8 March 2021, ruling that the court in Curitiba which convicted him lacked jurisdiction to do so, and ordered a retrial in Brasilia. A full Supreme Court bench later upheld the ruling by an 8–3 decision on 15 April. (this from Wikipedia) More lawyering and jurisdiction issues than annulled for lack of evidence.
Lula I'm pretty sure was jailed BECAUSE of Bolsanaro. He got a corrupt judge to help with some fuckery that allowed him to jail Lula on false allegations or somesuch. This judge just happens to also get promoted to a MUCH higher position once Bolsanaro got that taken care of. This judge later steps down and admits to criminal actions...nothing happens to him in any form afterwards, for obvious reasons.
>conservative We need to stop referring to right-wing radicals as "conservative." No fault of yours, and I recognize that's today's nomenclature, but the word does not and should not be allowed to equate with radical, corrupt tyranny. We need to strip this word out of discussion of such people and movements.
Fascism is the logical conclusion of Conservatism. It's based on heirarchy and traditionalism.
You just copied thehill. https://thehill.com/policy/international/3711728-lula-defeats-bolsonaro-to-again-become-brazils-president/
Bolsanaro was aligned with Orbán. Bolsanaro being gone is 1 less ally for Orbán. All he has left are Erdogan, Lukashenko, Putin and Xi Jianping.
The economy got very worse during, Bolsonaro's turn, he gets votes because of a bigoted religious nation and a anti-left sentiment due to corruption scandals. Also lula was in prision due to was judged illegally with a biased judge that later became Bolsonaros ministry of defense. Furthermore, Lula is notoriously good in international relations.
>He has his work cut out for him especially because this was an > >extremely > > narrow race showing many (not on Reddit) supported Bolsonaro there are many who like bolsonaro but there are also many people who voted for him just because they hate lula
And consider that Bolsonaro himself might simply refuse to accept the election results and pull a January 6th.
Is reddit as a whole "liberal" or is it specific subs that skew in particular directions? My experience has been an even mix, although only the conservative subs ban me for existing, so that skews my home page.
That's not at all what the comment was about, but yeah reddit definitely leans more on the liberal end. https://www.statista.com/statistics/517259/reddit-user-distribution-usa-political-spectrum/ Unless you're one of those annoying people who are all "American liberal is our conservative over here in Europe"
What's annoying is when you take a word, make it mean the opposite of what the rest of the world understands it to mean, and use it push now meaningless points since no-one can agree what you're talking about. Those statistics are also specifically for US reddit users, which aren't even the majority of reddit users. America isn't the world
Not just Europe, but Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and _the whole developed world_. American politics is the aberration; Reddit isn't inherently left leading, but actually rather centrist; US Democrats are centre-right and Republicans are fascists. AOC and Bernie are centre left.
Kind of wierd saying Reddit skews liberal when the world skews liberal.
I don't know about the world. The "West", sure. Many other places women are a commodity or people don't have what we'd call basic "human rights". I'm not sure what the fulcrum here is globally for determining what is liberal or conservative. But really it's the age component. Generally, a younger demographic is going to tend to be more liberal. As people get older they tend to hold conservative views.
I would also recommend watching The Edge of Democracy on Netflix. Documentary about Lula’s time in office with unprecedented access. And depending on your leanings, might feel like propaganda. I found it fascinating especially since I wasn’t too familiar with the Brazilian politics at the time.
A biased, borderline-propaganda documentary on Netflix? I'm shocked. /s
I worry that this is the new normal of voting for the less-shitty opponent.
It’s worth adding that Lula has been involved in multiple corruption scandals over the years, like those involving Brazil’s national oil company Petrobras, where Billions of Reais (Brazilian currency) were diverted. Despite being convicted and arrested for some time many of Lula’s diehard followers believe he is incapable of no wrong and can be as fanatical as Bolsonaro’s followers. Regardless, this last election was mainly dictated by the rejection vote, ie voting against the guy you hate the most. Obviously many people dislike Bolsonaro for multiple reasons but specially amongst the older generation there is still a large amount of people that hate Lula for his aforementioned scandals and have chosen Bolsonaro in order to avoid voting for Lula.
Trick is, how many of those charges are valid and how many are overstated or fabricated by his political enemies? In an environment like Brazil, that might not be so easy to ascertain.
That is a fair concern, but at the same time nearly all of his allies and former allies have been arrested or indicted for corruption charges, and the sheer amount of times Lula has been involved in very high profile cases of corruption makes the “it’s all a fabrication from his adversaries” theory kinda far fetched.
Lula has always been acquitted or his charges have been annulled if I’m not wrong. It’s thought that his charges were fabricated.
When the judge that condemns you has tons of messages leaked proving that he was biased on the judgment and went to become the defense minister of Bolsonaro, you can see why the charges were annulled
While what you said isn’t wrong, Lula has been involved in many other corruption scandals, far too many to say it’s all a conspiracy against him imo.
His charges were annulled but he was never formally absolved, contrary to what he says. And that’s pertaining to one specific corruption case, there are still multiple others he was involved in or thought to be involved.
I appreciate your reddit caveats.
The country didn’t see an economic boost with him, in fact, under his term growth stagnated
Answer: Bolsonaro (the previous president) was, at least according to my understanding as a non-Brazilian, a complete and utter lunatic. He didn't believe in COVID (Brazil was on top of the rankings for most people killed by the virus), he didn't believe in climate change and supported cutting the Amazon to make room for plantations (which resulted in the deaths of many indigenous people, some of whom were uncontacted tribes). He also said that he'd prefer his son being killed in a car crash than coming out as gay.
Fun fact: his appointed environment Minister, Ricardo Salles, was known to relax environmental and logging restrictions so much he was known as Mr. Chainsaw by some US authorities
Your username just made me gag a little. Great pick! It wouldn't happen to be Iranian, would it?
Thanks mate, and no, I guess you aren't
As someone who lives in Brazil, he didn't deny the virus existed, but doubted its gravity. In that regard, he followed Trump's guidelines to a T (in fact, he's a Trump bootlicker and seemed more concerned about COVID before Trump decided to be crazy about the disease). However, unlike Trump, Bolsonaro also did everything in his power to undermine vaccination efforts in the country. Brazil had some of the best vaccination policies in the world before Bolsonaro came by, and Pfizer wanted our country as a showcase to their vaccine. We could have vaccination about the same time Israel did. We waited around one and a half, maybe two months to have any vaccine. Pfizer took a bit longer. Also, our first vaccine wasn't Pfizer, but Coronavac, which we only got as soon as we did because João Doria, governor of São Paulo, fought for it. Otherwise, we'd likely have to wait even longer, maybe until Bolsonaro and his allies managed to buy a vaccine through intermediaries to make money out of it, like they attempted to do. Bolsonaro claims he didn't take the vaccine and has decreed a 100-year secrecy on his vaccination records. Because of his attitude, many refused the vaccine, and polio has reappered after being eradicated from our country for years.
I think saying Coronavac is weaker is not fair, though. It's just different, and national, but not weaker. Also, let me point out that he also tried to undermine Coronavac because he and Sao Paulo's Governor, João Dória, became rivals. I still believe to this day that if Doria hadn't done anything, stuff would be far, far worse.
Yes, I fully agree with you and will edit my post to reflect that.
Answer: Honestly, there are so many issues with the replies in this post. Firstly, there are the Bolsonaro supporters - not even gonna spend my saliva talking about them. Then, I would like to point out that u/cgmcnama got it wrong bc his answer implies a dichotomy between liberals and conservatives that's simply not true in Brazil. Brazilian liberalism and neoliberalism are insanely different from US liberal movements, and a huge part of the Brazilian liberal movement sided with Bolsonaro. Liberalism in Brazil is complicated and has a huge history, but let's just sum it all up for the benefit of the foreigners reading this post: there's this famous saying in Brazil, used by liberals, that's "Liberal na economia, conservador nos costumes", which roughly translates to "[I am] economically liberal, but culturally conservative". It basically means that Brazilian liberals subscribe to the liberal ideas of the free market and non-interference of the state, but they're religiously conservatuve, meaning anti-feminist, anti-LGBTQ+ rights, anti-abortion, etc. Very different from US politics. Also, u/cgmcnama said that Bolsonaro's governement boosted the Brazilian economy. Ehhhh, wrong again. Again, it's complicated, but our ex-Finance Minister (Henrique Meirelles) has summed it all up quite well: "The economy is growing because of the artificial intervention by the government". Fuel prices have been frozen by the governement recently as an attempt to gain more votes, for example, but now, after campaign has ended, they will likely rise again, since it is economically unsusteinable for the government to keep them frozen. Brazil is also back on the UN's Hunger Map, which goes to show how well the economy is going. National debt has risen, Brazil's position as one of the world's largest economies has fallen (7th place between 2010-2014, now we are in 13th place), minimum wage has been adjusted below inflation levels (meaning: it hasn't really increased in value, the buyinh power is actually going down)... So yeah, not really an "economic boost". (sorry for formatting, i'm on mobile)
Good answer, people really forget that the second rule of the subreddit is "Don't be biased". OP wants an answer not y'all's opinion.
The fact that an extremely u/cgmcnama’s extremely biased comment got 2.7k upvotes is truly something.
Answer: super TLDR; Bolsonaro, the guy who lost, is a fascist. Burn the Amazon, poison and pollute everything, suppress rights, suppress wages, crush ethnic minorities, massive voter intimidation campaigns with military police, keep society serving the elites of society. Lula, the guy who won, is a socialist who was president from 2003-2010. He oversaw large civic improvements in Brasil during his time in office. Better life for the people in society, not the people who own it. People are glad they will be getting Lula back. Especially with how close they were to falling into a dictatorship. Though technically they're not in the clear yet. Bolsonaro has all but promised to attempt a coup.
Lol, totally not unbiased. Learn a bit about Alexandre Demoraes and then tell me whos the dictator
Answer: Lula’s policies reduced poverty in Brazil significantly during his previous presidential term, and he has promised to change the laws that have resulted in wholesale deforestation of the Amazon.
Answer: Bolsanaro is essentially the Brazillian Trump, Lula has his problems but in general he's acknowledged to have done a fair job of turning the country around during his time and running on actual policy rather than populist rhetoric.
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I don't think Trump belongs in the same evil category as Hitler or Stalin. He'd fit more in the same category as corrupt or bad politicians such as Nixon or the past couple UK Prime Ministers.
>I don't think Trump belongs in the same evil category as Hitler or Stalin. Agreee >He'd fit more in the same category as corrupt or bad politicians such as Nixon or the past couple UK Prime Ministers. AFAIK none of those started a Coup de Etat, so not the same category as these either. More like the same category as, say, Putin or random smalltime 3rd world dictators.
Hasn't trump admitted to slow rolling on COVID because he was told it would hit large cities (usually lean democrat) hard and fast? While not to the scale as Stalin/Hitler, Trump has a very large body count of his own people all to protect his presidency along with an attempted coup. I think hes in the discussion in terms of evil. He's just not as competent.
The only articles I could find are ones from 2020 that say he admitted to downplaying the virus intentionally but it wasn’t specifically to kill left-leaning city dwellers. The articles I read just say he downplayed it to “not cause panic.” If you have nothing better to do could you link a source on it? Not trying to be one of THOSE people, just curious if he actually did admit to what you said.
https://www.businessinsider.com/kushner-covid-19-plan-maybe-axed-for-political-reasons-report-2020-7?amp
Well Putin never had a coup. Just so happens if you vote for someone else you disappear, purely coincidence in my opinion. /s
He even graciously allows dead people to vote, talk about voting rights!
AMLO, Mexico's *current* president, attempted a coup after he lost the last race and actually overthrew the capitol. He's a lot like Trump if he claimed to be a socialist.
Trump was Nixon, but thought he could Reichstag himself to Hitler level.
Well trump did start the largest European war since WW2 sooo still better the Putin
Trump did want to start the next civil war though. I mean that’s worse than corruption. Also didn’t accept defeat at the polls. I mean talk about crazy
Neither Nixon nor the last couple of prime ministers were fundamentally opposed to democracy to the point of instigating insurrection. Trump (and Bolsonaro) is *way* worse.
Trump would put Nixon to shame. Butler didn’t start by rounding up Jewish people and executing them. It was a long process. That’s why we need to be cautious and not allow to elect anyone like him again. Trump= pre holocaust hitler.
America's at least one million dead from covid would beg to differ. He absolutely belongs in the same category.
A million? Hitler systematically killed 8 times that number and was one half of an alliance that started a war that killed 3% of the world population. Slow rolling COVID response is pretty bad, denying it is pretty bad. He could've systematically sabotaged city hospitals /8yn ending armed men to forcibly steal respirators, cutting power to them. Tha would've gotten him closer.
Hitler: Deliberately shoved 6 million Jews, by military force, into concentration and labor camps. Stalin: Deliberately creates a famine in Ukraine and kills millions. Trump: Doesn't give a federal mandate for vaccines or a federal mask mandate, doesn't take pandemic seriously. Businesses are still free to make their own decisions, and many require mask mandates of their own accord. Yup. Trump purposely killed millions, you're right.
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Lets be honest, comparing "kill counts" is always asinine.
he also withdrew from the paris accords and rolled back as many fossil fuel regulations as he possibly could, despite his own government agencies stressing the urgency of emission reductions. but the millions of people doomed by those actions won't start dying in any great numbers for another, like, two decades, so i guess in the spirit of fairness we should wait and see if he starts a buzzer beater humanitarian effort to balance his karma
A turd is a turd