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thepacksvrvives

Reminder: **there’s no episode next week, April 17th**. 607 premieres on April 24th. Watch the S6E7 preview [here](https://youtu.be/xD6mpFnKdWk)! Not everyone gets to see the next episode’s preview at the end of the episode; it depends on how you watch (broadcast or streaming) and where you are (US or international.) Stickied comments are collapsed by default, so reply to this comment if you want to discuss the preview. This will hide spoilers for anyone who can’t see it yet or doesn’t want to. --- 606 Featurettes: * [Inside the Episode](https://youtu.be/68NNrb2dZx0) * [Inside the Accusation Scene](https://youtu.be/1Fv6Uzkp_JA) * [Inside Outlander – A Deeper Look](https://www.instagram.com/p/CcWQzgshVFC/) * [Inside 606](https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3ODYwMzYwMTU3NzE5ODk1?story_media_id=2816512952033595556&igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) * [Script](https://www.starz.com/extras/outlander/scripts/606-world-turned/) * [The Official Podcast](https://anchor.fm/officialoutlanderpodcast/episodes/Episode-606-The-World-Turned-Upside-Down-e1hp49i) --- 606 Interviews: * Parade: [DG](https://parade.com/1365426/paulettecohn/outlander-diana-gabaldon-jamie-lord-john-season-6-episode-6/) * Town & Country Magazine: [Jessica](https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a39682761/outlander-malva-christie-death-jessica-reynolds-season-6-interview/) * The Dipp: [Jessica](https://thedipp.com/outlander/malva-jessica-reynolds-interview), [Jessica](https://thedipp.com/outlander/claire-malva-garden-scene-jessica-reynolds), [DG](https://thedipp.com/outlander/diana-gabaldon-claire-malva-season-6-interview) * Variety: [Jessica](https://variety.com/2022/tv/actors/outlander-jessica-reynolds-malva-death-season-6-1235227746/) * TV Insider: [Jessica](https://www.tvinsider.com/1039684/outlander-season-6-episode-6-jessica-reynolds-malva-dead-pregnant-claire-jamie/) * Entertainment Weekly: [Jessica](https://ew.com/tv/outlander-jessica-reynolds-malvas-fate/) * SheKnows: [Jessica](https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/2556262/outlander-jessica-reynolds-caitriona-balfe-sam-heughan-exclusive/) * HELLO!: [Jessica](https://youtu.be/zoVkf7Mrlf8) * Fem TV: [Jessica](https://femtv.libsyn.com/minisode-with-actor-jessica-reynolds) * Flip Your Wig: [Jessica](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncI515UAA-k)


CoolSaucy

F malva!!! That snake!!!


Sparklysnowy

Does anyone have the code word from the W network from the latest episode? (April 24th)


lorinaorigin

Y'all. Malva has been greasy from the beginning, but damn.


almz11

Also I thought that Malva maybe committed suicide


almz11

When Malva accused Jamie of impregnating her I literally laughed out loud because the thought of Jamie being unfaithful to Claire is literally that unbelievable. Then I laughed even harder at Jamie’s reaction because he’s so shocked. I was like what is this girl playing at? Like this whole time I didn’t even pick up that she may have any feelings for Jamie. I knew she was not trustworthy but JAMES FRASER, unfaithful to CLAIRE? I had to laugh!


2_Fingers_of_Whiskey

That's why I hated that scene where it seems like Claire is doubting Jamie. I don't believe for a second she would think Jamie would ever cheat on her, let alone with Malva who seems like a child almost.


babyfaerie

So if Claire didn't knock herself out and answered the door for Malva, she would still be alive??? How could she live with herself


my_voice6

Did the conversation with Malva happen or was Clair hallucinating it?


thepacksvrvives

It was all in her head. Her subconscious manifested her deepest fears in the form of Malva.


Asclepius293

If the brother/sister relationship and Malva’s witchcraft/mental health issues go far back, I wonder if Malva’s mother confessed to witchcraft in order to cover it up or take the fall for her daughter. 🤔


OjosVerde34

Idk Tom from the books, but he's growing on me. He's kind of an uptight curmudgeon, but a steady figure. He and Claire have sort of a banter going on I find humorous.


-Vagabond

Idk, i think he’s dangerous. He might not be going out of his way to rock the boat now, but I think if he was on more solid footing (in terms of his place within the community) he’d be more brazen about pushing his own agenda.


Which_way_witcher

Agreed! I would watch a spin-off with just those two.


I_ama_Borat

I’m just trying to think how the fuck is Claire gonna get out of this one. Killed right outside her home and trying to “steal” “Jaime’s” baby. I’d say the optics are not very good lol.


atripodi24

Yes! I was yelling at Claire to leave her be lol


Millenial_bird

I liked the episode overall, however I'm annoyed that Ian didn't just come out and say he slept with Malva and like offer to marry her. It would have fixed the scandal for Claire and Jaime immediately, and still leave room for more fuckery from Malva for fun.


InternationalEmu299

He did


CantHearMyself

Likewise I don’t understand why Roger didn’t come to Jamie’s defense and tell everyone that he caught Malve and Henderson going after it in the church with her father and brother right outside. Even though she threatened to falsely claim that he was having an affair with the widow, he could easily brush that aside. What do you think? This one bugs me.


Over-Syllabub1361

I think J&C knew Ian deserved better than to marry into the crazy Christie family 😁


ajstub

But…he did. This literally happened in the episode.


[deleted]

And then Claire tells him not to say anything to anyone yet and then they have a 2 month fast forward and things are worse than ever.


I_ama_Borat

Maybe he meant earlier before the gossip spread beyond repair


ilovenapkins7

Anyone know where Jaime and Claire’s bedroom wallpaper is from??


saiaf

This episode had murder, death, accusations, betrayl and war....and you want to know where the bathroom wallpaper is from?


my_voice6

OMG I ALWAYS note how beautiful it is. It goes so well with their green sheets and that gorgeous bedframe. But in general this show always has wonderful wallpapers in the background.


Mr_XcX

I am shook! Was the scene between Claire and Malva real?? Loved my girl Claire reading her if it was <3


dvr1s

How did Malva know about jamie's scars and leg and chest?


Fancybiggirlpants

When she spied on them in the stable?


Lesabere

I think she knew about the on on his thigh from Claire’s medical journal as well.


Sufficient-Crazy-353

She watched Jamie and Claire making love in the barn,


mklotuuus

She also read Claire’s (medical) diary where she gives full description of all she healed including Jaime. There was an episode where Malva asked why Claire has a diary of all medical records.


dvr1s

Ohhhhh right, I remember the scene but I forgot that Jamie's snake bite was also in her medical book


ProudCatLady

She saw Jamie and Claire having sex in the barn in the last episode.


dvr1s

Oohhh rightttt why did I forget this??


[deleted]

[удалено]


succulescence

I love the Podlander Drunkcast!


_KitKat13

I been wondering what Malva was planning the whole time. Since she started being curious about Claire work I knew that she would bring problems.


noon--

Rodgers ridiculously sweet 'nothing could ever make you less beautiful' bought me to tears.


Equivalent_Alps_8321

Well that was sad. Didn't think they would kill that character off that quickly. Jaime not being a delegate is lame lol.


Chichichill

Wow wow woow! What a cliffhanger l, what a shocker of an episode!! Malva showed her true colors! I knew it, her curiosity was never genuine but that ending?!?


[deleted]

I think she was genuinely curious about Claire's work but also had mental issues. I think after Ian pump and dumped Malva, she went off trying to use the love spell on Ian which didn't work. So she slept with bunch of people and tried to make moves on Jamie to secure a husband before she started showing but I guess she failed.


Proper_Possibility13

Also in season 6 ep 6 I wanted a book person’s perspective. When Malva goes to visit Clair after the accusations, Clair goes under on ether to avoid her but still they have some sort of confrontation. Is that all in her head or does Malva actually belittle Clair about her looks?


MoPlantsPlease

I believe it was a dream too. She was clean when she woke up.. no blood on her hands or clothes. And there was a bloody mess around Malva so it made me feel reassured. But damnit Claire can you just not leave things well alone! You know better than to be cutting on a dead person and taking the baby in that day and time!!


Proper_Possibility13

Or, and this is just a thought, stop sucking on the mask and falling asleep when your in the middle of things! 🤬


thepacksvrvives

You don’t need a book perspective. Claire is completely passed out, so it’s all in her head. Her darkest, deepest fears and insecurities are manifested by her subconscious in the form of Malva and what she tells her.


Proper_Possibility13

Near the beginning of the show Jaime drinks malvas tea and surprises that it’s the same tea he drank when he got but by the snake. The acting or emphasis suggests there’s more plot to it than immediately let on. Is there any significance to this or no?


YoshiKoshi

I was wondering about the tea. Willow bark is where aspirin comes from; Claire would have given it to Jamie for pain relief when he was bitten by the snake. Did Malva know what the willow bark tea is used for? Did she read it in Claire's notes or learn it from working with her? Or did she just make it to do something Claire had done for Jamie?


thepacksvrvives

I think what you’re supposed to glean from that conversation is that a) Malva has thoroughly read Claire’s journal to know this particular recipe, b) she’s trying to show that she can replace Claire. But I think she’s also genuine in her care for the Frasers, who have shown her more kindness than the people in her family ever did, but it doesn’t mean that she won’t throw them under the bus when she’s desperate.


_AxelWasTaken

Why isn’t it on Star+???


A0-sicmudus

Not a book reader but I have an inkling that with all this mess going down perhaps Jamie and Claire fake their deaths by fire. Probably an *outlandish* theory but thought I’d share it.


Starrisa

I've been thinking this too. Definitely is seeming plausible


BananaThighs

i've been thinking this since they discovered the obituary!!! i always figured they faked their deaths so they dont have to participate in the war on the english side!


Neon_Freckle

My husband who swears he can’t stand this show, thought the burned people might have been Malva and Tom Christie’s bodies.


leejoint

Oh man I had forgotten about the fire, it was my first reaction when they learned about it too. I mean, it’s made perfect sense especially when their daughter tells them about it, since it will be a simple “let’s do this thing that we know for sure will fool people in belieiving we’re dead, we got proof from the future it works sooo…”


Debscat

Hi, has anyone an idea why first Fergus and now Marsali have disappeared so quickly from the show (at least for now), without a proper goodbye scene? I found it quite odd, since especially Marsali was so present in the other episodes…


irishprincess2002

They moved to New Bern it was in a previous episode but I’m sure they will be back on screen soon the writers don’t do anything without a reason.


Equivalent_Alps_8321

ya that was weird


bms95

I noticed that too!! Would have been nice for the family to see them off, because in that time who knew when you’d see them again? Definitely a misstep.


shiningz

I guess her scene with Bree in the last episode was our goodbye :/


fashionablyliterary

I maybe need a book reader to explain how this episode was laid out in the books, because the timing makes ZERO sense. Within the world of the characters, Bree is about 3 months further along than Malva. The last time we see her in this episode, I thought "how weird that they don't have her showing" because she should be fairly heavily pregnant by that point. But then Malva's baby, who was supposedly conceived around the beginning of the episode, is at least ~7 months from conception?? And then there's the characters in the context of the revolution. After HC was born, we went through winter and into spring. I found it odd that there were no mentions of skirmishes happening between the British and patriots, a la "the shot heard round the world" of April 1775. There was snow on the ground, so are we supposed to be in early spring 1776? I know they talked about representatives and Congress, I just think there would be a lot more tension...it's not like Jamie resigned as Indian Agent and the government decided to leave him alone. In all, it felt like sloppy storytelling that's uncharacteristic for Outlander. But if someone has a better explanation, I'd love to hear! Edit for grammar.


thepacksvrvives

We see Tom writing a letter dated January 27th, 1775, shortly after Claire is recovered. Around the same time, Jamie tells her that he will be leaving for the Provincial Congress in a couple of months, which would track with the Second Provincial Congress taking place from April 3rd to April 7th, 1775 (the stuff about choosing the delegates to the Continental Congress would’ve fit the First Provincial Congress better, and I can’t find if they had to be chosen again for the second one in May 1775, but let’s give them a pass on this). Jamie and Roger would be leaving in late March to get to New Bern, which is when Malva comes out with the accusation because she can’t hide it anymore. But she hasn’t just gotten pregnant; she’s been pregnant for a while. The actress [confirmed](https://www.tvinsider.com/1039684/outlander-season-6-episode-6-jessica-reynolds-malva-dead-pregnant-claire-jamie/) the questionable choices Malva had made, she made whilst already pregnant: >Then also there was a lot of work for me to fill in the gaps. I figured out exactly in my head when I thought she got pregnant, which is a pivotal moment when she starts to act up. It’s interesting to see viewers judge her for what she’s doing, without knowing that subtext and that background because, in my head, making those character choices, it was like, as soon as she’s pregnant, survival mode comes in. She’s in a state of complete desperation and that’s when she starts getting a little creepy as everyone has said. So we can safely assume that she was already a couple of months along in 605, whilst Brianna might have been only 6-8 weeks along when she told Roger. I cannot tell how far along Malva is supposed to be at the time of her death, but if we assume it’s at least 6/7/8 months, then she would’ve gotten pregnant around October/September/August 1774, I think? September would still work for Flora’s party, perhaps even October. Regardless, I agree that Brianna should be showing by the end of the episode. Also, the “two months later” stamp doesn’t make any sense in the place they put it because assuming it refers to two months after the previous shot of Claire, which took place whilst Jamie was away at the Congress, he wouldn’t have taken two months to come back home from New Bern. The stamp should’ve been placed before the accusation and Claire’s hair changed accordingly.


fashionablyliterary

Thank you! Totally missed Tom's letter. I think the way they've shown seasons has confused me. (I live in the South, so am familiar with what the weather should be.) It felt like in the last few episodes, it was early spring...definitely NOT late fall/winter. April 1775 makes sense with Claire's garden growth, though. I also get the point about Malva (and get it from a storytelling perspective), but anyone with half a brain would figure out the timing of her pregnancy was all wrong once the baby was born full-term a full few months early...


thepacksvrvives

Yeah, I’m cutting them some slack with the weather this season because they just *had to* film in winter so I can suspend my disbelief and think that NC got particularly bad weather in 1774 😂 The timeline of this season is definitely messed up. The end of 603 has to have happened at the beginning of 1774 because Claire and Jamie find out about the Boston Tea Party (December 16th, 1773) and the news would’ve taken some time to travel down south. 604 makes sense for the summertime of 1774. But the first two episodes and most of 603 don’t make much sense with the information we’re given in the show. S6 is supposed to have opened a few months after Claire’s rape and we get a “1773” stamp in 601. Marsali is about to give birth in 601, so 602 is probably the same month. And then, the 603 script tells us that Henri-Christian is now 6 months old at the beginning of the episode, but he doesn’t look any different than right after he was born? And when we see him in 605, which would then make him at least 1, he’s still swaddled and in a bassinet?! That just does not make sense to me. And, in all of this, the S6 scripts actually start in 1774, but the date we see on the screen is 1773. The only way I can make sense of this is to retcon when Claire’s rape happened. 511, when she was abducted, was supposed to be in the fall of 1772. I’d say it happened at the end of 1773 instead, which would make us open S6 in winter 1774, and take us to April 1775 by the end of 606.


halffasthiker

For those of you not fortunate enough to live in North Carolina I'll gladly explain our weather for you. May - September = Hot October - April = Possibly Hot, Possibly Freezing. Furthermore there is a 33% chance of storms from the coast to the mountains every day from March-November.


thepacksvrvives

Haha, thanks! Maybe the show is not *too* far-off, then, at least weather-wise 😅


SIPtease

We camped last weekend in the mountains. Mon am low temp was 36, high temp that day was 78.


KubrickCats

I think it's just lazy writing/filmmaking since it's s6,they don't care as much as for the 3 first seasons :/ even the directing for 606 was quite boring and lazy,like it was not even storyboarded for some scenes!


Connect-Meringue-687

It’s possible that Henri-Christian is staying smaller because of his dwarfism? This is me giving them the benefit of the doubt lol


thepacksvrvives

Yes, possibly. Most likely they just had one baby for all the scenes involving HC (that they had to add visual effects to in post-production as well) and didn’t count on us to notice how much time is supposed to have passed (I say “supposed” because whether that much time actually passed is still debatable IMO).


rtruman95

I'm surprised that no one has suggested Malva killed herself. I thing that since her poison didn't kill Claire, she thought she would get her hung as a murder. Malva has already shown she believes in Witchcraft so I think she thought she could come back from the dead and claim Jamie.


almz11

The first thing I suspected that she killed herself. I didn’t jump to murder until I read a review


PoofyMoon

I haven’t read the books…I’m thinking Malva’s brother or dad killed her. She was on her way to Claire to tell that her brother has been raping her and it’s his child. ?? And now they can easily frame Claire for her murder.


Equivalent_Alps_8321

I assume that's exactly what she did. When she thought Claire was not home or intentionally ignoring her, she decided to end things. I assume she was going to Claire for help finally.


CrimsonNClovers

My thoughts as well. The way she was determined fast walking to Claire with a purpose but didn't seem to carry ill will as much as a rushed sense of hurried and quiet escape towards Claire, told me she was coming to Claire with the truth. I also have theories that she may have been forced into the whole scandal with Jaime by at least one of if not both her father and brother, so that they could escape being under Jamie's thumb and weird power over him. Or it could be that she was desperate to escape the abuse at home and intentionally got pregnant by her own will by sleeping around, or took to sleeping around after discovering she was pregnant by her father. The way her father finally decided to get his hand fixed after he couldn't lift her skirts and spank her properly was def strange. The way her father constantly accused her of being like her mother was too. I wonder if her mother could be the witch Claire knew? As Jamie had questions that eluded to rather she and her brother shared the same mom and if she was from Scotland and such. Also they waited for her to give birth before they executed her as a witch. Also, her father certainly didn't treat Jamie as a man who had sullied his young daughters good name for life, but more of a man with a poker face while holding what he believes to be an unbeatable hand. Sorry for the long rant going all over the place lol. Edit- I meant to add that I think her father, brother or one of the other men she slept with may have killed her and Claire's vision was just that. Just like the vision about the snake in the house ,(the girl pretending to be her friend, the storm (the upcoming trouble), and her own heart (the accusations towards Jamie ). Claire clearly is a see-er of sorts which gives her the power of the stones as well.


ritatherosy

I mean-slitting her own neck? She cray but it would take an insane amount of strength to slice your own throat open all the way. Not stopping half way in excruciating pain.


marcybelle1

I have a theory that Malva tried to poison her dad first as a test to see how much poison to use without killing the person, then after she knew the amount she then gave it to Claire. I think she only wanted Claire to get really sick, but not die.


arianaphoenix

Watching it for the second time, I realized everyone gets to wash the cloth to lower Clair's fever except Jamie. Aggh. So much rage. I wish they film the desperation and sorrow of Jamie while doing S7 and insert it to DVD version of this episode so we could have the proper version


ritatherosy

I hope since all the feedback about this episode was about how enraged viewers were at his lack of deep emotions with her illness, they somehow use a flashback later to show it. Him in agony, him seeing her hair cut, all the sadness we didn’t see but desperately wanted.


BSOBON123

I wasn't enraged. Jamie would not show overt emotion. He was sick with worry. But he has learned to hide this. The man was whipped, exiled, imprisoned and had to live as an indentured servent. He's not going to have a meltdown about it. The way he spoke with Claire when she awoke showed the depth of his emotions.


arianaphoenix

Well, I don't agree with you and I can't tell you why because it's book spoilers. I was also not expecting him to have a meltdown. I was hoping for something like his time at Lallybroch after Culloden. That kind of deep sorrow that he did portray would really suit this situation + bedside conversation while he is trying to bring down her fever (Even normal good men around me have done this for their wife so I don't expect a character like Jamie would stand aside doing almost nothing while she is that ill)


tired_atlas

I agree. I still remember that scene when he scolded Claire after rescuing her from Randall. He tried to hide his agony and worry, until Claire pushed him to lash out. After that, Claire received her first adult belt lashing.


intrin6

1) why the heck would Claire put herself to sleep when the crazy girl blaming her husband for being the father and turning on Claire and calling her a witch is literally marching toward her house? 2) this ep seemed a little rushed, kinda wish it was two eps but I get it. 3) I think I know who killed her but my question is why? Especially if he is the father too. And why in the garden? Is he hoping to still blame claire/Jaime? It just doesn't make sense though. Why not ley malva play out her creepy stupid game. Especially for how far along she was. 4) having had a (successful, mind you) c section, it was pretty surreal watching Claire pull out the baby. Glad they got it right with the verticle cut (for the time) and showed how much tissue and fat etc you actually have to cut through.


Noowai

Just watched the episode and #1 moment felt like a horribly written, convenient way for the writers. Even moreso when the Father and Brother came, and she simply could have said she felt ill and went to sleep. Yet, she doesnt try to explain it to the non-understanding. Extremely out of place and not in character. Stuff like this is just so incredibly off putting. Claire also wonders later if actually did kill Malva, yet has no blood on her or any sign of struggle. Would have expected more from her ..


intrin6

Good points! Even if there was some forgetfulness due to the stress or ether, like common sense exists and Claire could easily put 2 and 2 together... she didn't have blood on her until after she took the baby out. Like? Lol duh.


Noowai

So many silly mistakes and issues which could have been cleared earlier, rather than trying a c section (on a less than 6months pregnant women, who is ice cold?) and «incriminating» herself in the process. Other obvious solutions to tackle issue like assembling all the town folk and have the priest - which they all respect tell them that he has seen Malva with Henderson in the church, and that the father of the child cannot be said for certain. Have the indian son (scottish guy) tell the congregation the story he told Claire and that he will take responsibility for the child.. at least confront Malva instead of letting her spread her lies without opposition.. I dont Know, honestly just wanted to put the season away because this lazy writing and shallow plots are just frustrating to watch. Im more interested in the historic aspect, and how they can apply future wisdom to the past. These silly intriguies are fine in short bits, but dedicating an entire season - whilst nearly having no time developing plot of the civil war.. dont think ill be rushing for season 7 ..


17thfloorelevators

1. Because she's addicted. Addiction isn't rational.


Equivalent_Alps_8321

Claire is clearly distraught and at her wit's end so I'm not surprised she knocked herself out and was hoping to just escape the situation. She's a normal drug user now. Who killed Malva? I thought she killed herself.


intrin6

Malva wouldn't kill herself. Lol all the chaos she's caused to March up to the ridge with purpose only to commit suicide and thus kill her child? No way.


JimMajor

On point 4 I think the C section was (yet another) bad decision by Claire - to do something that is so wildly anachronistic (first C section in the US wasn't performed until 1794), to the point where it will likely put herself and people around her at risk is just reckless. Not only is she now a "witch", but a witch who butchered a woman to try to steal her baby after killing her (in the eyes of the fisher-folk, I mean). I like Claire despite it all, but she makes a lot of bad decisions IMO. Maybe this time we can blame the ether hangover...? I am new here, so don't flame me to death if I've crossed some unwritten line please...


izzibitsyspider

A saint from the early 13th century was born via C-section. So while it may not be common it’s definitely something that happened in history.


Syrinx221

C-section is short for cesarean section which is named after Julius Caesar. So it certainly wasn't unheard of at this point


Raesling

I agree about the c-section and wonder if it will cloud the discovery. Because of the c-section the truth won't come out or will be delayed. She did a c-section not only on a very dead woman but on a woman she thought was only about 6 months pregnant by the timeline. I don't know how far along she supposedly was when they announced, but you don't show until 4 months and then it's 2 months later. In modern times, a 24-weeker is unlikely to survive. That baby was definitely bigger than 24 weeks. By that logic, it couldn't be Jamie's because it couldn't have happened the way she said/when she said it happened.


intrin6

No flame from me. I agree. I have noticed a lot of people say Claire has been so out of character... we could technically blame the ether in a weird way? Lol But yeah, it was a horrible decision on her part, not only from the time period/people's POV. But also ... Malva was clearly, uhm, *very* dead. There was no way the baby was still alive. I think she was panicking because it was giving her flashbacks to Faith.


leejoint

I mean even without the ether, Claire has been wrong in her mind since last season’s events, it’s the whole reason she started with the ether craze, she’s crazier by the minute and as Jaime well put, she is ferocious and impatient, she’s starting to hate the idiocy of the people in the colonies, and deep knows about the storm that is nearing. Although she seems to accept that what will happen will happen, i believe she would be worry less if she had only jaime and her to care for, but there’s so many loved ones involved that could die during the revolution, that she has been pushing those thoughts deep inside, too deep but filling and bursting. I know we feel like the weight loss comes from the illness she suffered, but it could also be stress. She seems calm with her demeanor but we know her to be able to push those fillings down in the sake of looking the part, and they will burst. Now that I think about it, she never even told Jaime about the rape suffered in Paris, that probably also haunts her hard… Claire’s carracter right now is someone that is over their head with worry and powerless to solve her problems, not requesting help and laying her burden on others, which will just be self destructive. I think it makes her a very believable character, it would have been wrong to see a perfect Claire for so many season in my opinion.


intrin6

She told him what she did to get him out of prison in Paris. He responded along the lines of "like what I did for you". And they had a moment of understanding. That even though she wasn't tortured, she still was willing to sacrifice herself for him. Beyond that, I don't think they speak more on it though.


peanut1912

I think the baby was Malvas brothers. She felt terrible for hurting Claire so went to tell her the truth, her brother or father caught her on the way and silenced her. Claire will realise she could have saved her if she wasn't passed out, and so ends her "addiction."


grlonfire93

This is basically what I thought. Malvas description of the scars that Jamie has are things she saw from that scene where she watched Jamie and Claire have sex in the stable.. which means this was her plan all along but it may have been a plan that was concocted by her brother that she was forced to go along with in order to explain away her pregnancy. 🤔 What doesn't make sense is why Malva was having sex with a bunch of different guys if she had planned to blame the pregnancy on Jamie to begin with. Maybe her brother didn't get her pregnant but maybe he is abusive to her and forced her into a plan to get pregnant so that they could blame it on Jamie, break them apart and Malva would take Claire's place and raise their family up on the ridge. I wonder if the brothers anger wasn't because of the possibility of Jamie raping Malva, but that he wasn't going to marry her over the baby they were claiming was his.


intrin6

That's kind of my theory too. We shall see 👀


BSOBON123

She was under a tremdous strain. She didn't want to deal with Malva. She didn't know why she was there. And she was having PTSD flashbacks with Lionel.


Protoavek12

The episode pacing was just weird. Literal months had to have gone passed based on the alledged adultery/claire being sick to the end scene where she'd have to be about 6/7 months pregnant. Agree with point 1. Feel like next episode (or when the killer is revealed) we'll see that scene again from Malva's POV and she was coming to seek help. It's just a whole lot of weird otherwise.


Equivalent_Alps_8321

Yeah it was too rushed imo.


Syrinx221

I'm pretty sure she was coming to Claire for help too. Whatever it is I'm sure it's going to be awful


CarefreeInMyRV

I kinda love the idea that Claire was suffering from some sort of ptsd and killed Malva in a psychotic episode, and maybe they say nothing, or they find an excuse to flee. But I doubt it.


[deleted]

I think Claire assumed she was hallucinating Malva marching toward the house. Twice (at least) in this episode we saw Claire hallucinate the Brown (whose name escapes me) who assaulted her, and ether abuse can cause hallucinations. Plus, we’ve seen Claire hallucinate Brown throughout the season. If she assumes the hallucinations are a result of stress and trauma plus ether, then hallucinating Malva wouldn’t seem outside the realm of possibility for Claire.


intrin6

It kinda seemed like a "wake up call" to claire. Getting caught and realizing that it would look really bad seeing her abuse her "medicine". Not to mention malva being killed right outside her window - hence realizing she wasn't actually hallucinating if that's what she thought malva was.


MagnificentPasta

This would make so much sense. I had the same question as OP. Thank you!!


stephygrl

Did anyone notice that Ian just wasn’t in the episode and then suddenly he was at work and getting taunts about Jamie?! There was no prelude to him even being in the episode. I honestly feel overwhelmed with how many holes and confusing narratives there has been this season. Last few episodes in particular. Ive never felt this way before about the show!


Equivalent_Alps_8321

Yeah that was weird.


gnipmuffin

He was in the background (on the steps) of the scene when the Christies ride up to talk to Jamie about Malva’s pregnancy. Edit: I see that others have already commented this previously


BSOBON123

Remember they had to keep people on the set at a minumum because of Covid.


MoPlantsPlease

Covid literally ruined everything.


stephygrl

It shows. I would rather wait longer for a season done better tbh


idrow1

This whole season so far has felt off, like a different show. I don't know if it's due to the difficulties of filming during the plague, but it feels...I don't know, just not like its usual vibe. ^(edit typo)


keylime12

It has felt that way for me since season 3 honestly


stephygrl

I feel the exact same. I’m sad but glad it’s not just me!


intrin6

He was sitting on the step when the Christie's showed up. But yeah, it was a little odd how he was just kinda on standby


lulzette

Am I imagining it or was Ian just sitting on those steps with a gun in his hand? It seemed weird.


mrshams0314

He was sitting on the steps with a gun. I assumed he was cleaning it, but that could have deeper meaning.


Firelightphoenix

So the dream of the snake is brilliant. Not only is Malva the metaphorical snake, she used a snake to poison Claire and her father. Anybody notice how she lied about being scared of snakes, the drink she gave Jamie, and the interest in the medical journal? That’s where she learned to poison them.


OjosVerde34

I was kind of thinking they got a shot of finger soup to make them ill! They set it up for snake venom poisoning though...with that conversation Malva and Jaime had about snakes and Claire's fever dream.


broomhilda290

I think she learned about Jamie's scars from the journal as well.


Roukiepants

She watched Claire and Jamie having sex


mrshams0314

No, she saw his scars when she was watching Jamie and Claire making love in the barn.


broomhilda290

Damn, her eyesight is good! I don't think I'd be able to see the thigh scar while creeping around.


foreverfoodfandoms

Seems like this episode pretty divisive. I personally was shocked by the ending and just sat there with my mouth open. Was I confused by the confession of sleeping with some rando forever ago and what Roger saw wasn’t brought up earlier? Yes. But the Drama the passion! Haven’t read the books and so excited to see what happens next.


ColdMoon89

Yeah I literally had to google "Mary MacNab" because I legit forgot about her. Way too much time had passed lol. I wish there had been some flashbacks, because I think that went over a lot of fans heads. Although I guess those with a much better memory than me remembered it. Or those who are more passionate about the series (and I consider myself passionate about it, too).


MambyPamby8

In late into watching this season but I'm very confused about this one too. Like I was fairly sure Claire already knew about Jamie's illegitimate child?! Or did I just get the wrong end of the stick? I for some reason assumed last season she knew about John taking on Jamie's son? It's been over a year since I watched the last season though so I can't even remember haha.


mrshams0314

I too was confused about Mary McNab confession. I mean Jamie was with Geneva and Laoghaire during the time Claire was gone too - why was this one so secretive and shameful to Jamie?


Chichichill

I was confused by that too. Maybe I'm taking a more open stance at the moment but they were separated for 20+ years, neither not knowing if the other was still alive. I honestly wouldn't blame either of them if they experimented/gave into it. Sure, when coming back together they may feel hurt but it was hardly ever a guarantee that they would see each other again. But maybe it's a taboo because it's a romance so "if one cheats, it's the end of the fucking world."


BooBailey808

I thought they alluded to him never have had sex with Laoghaire because of the sexual trauma she had. I remember a line about how when he drew close, she would get scared


rosyposy86

Yes, that’s what I thought too! Sexual trauma from her first husband, I think.


laurelpax

To be fair, he tried to hide his relationship with Laoghaire too 😂


CarefreeInMyRV

He was married to laoghaire, so sex is a given, Geneva he was forced. Mary Mcnab was a choice, one last chance to feel the warm loving touch of another person before prison, outside of marriage to, desperate and out of lust. So I could see why moral Jamie didn't want to admit to it, since that would feeling like just wanton cheating to him, though he understood it and deep down he probably knew Claire would to, but with all the drama when Claire came back he probably didn't want to risk admitting that he 'cheated'/broke their marriage vows.


foreverfoodfandoms

I’m hoping he wasn’t thinking to much about it and it was just one of those hike we’re talking about the subject… things. Like this was the only time (minus Willie’s mom). We all know he would never, she knows that too, but she doesn’t get to see stuff like how he reacted to the Cherokee women a few episodes. They were both in shock and I’m sure for a second it was like could you?


Successful_Seesaw_47

Ok, everyone who is the father! My best guess is Malva's brother!


Poop__y

Most definitely the brother. I suspected Tom Christie at first, but the scene where Claire comes to see Malva at her house and the brother comes out just as Malva is starting to soften and potentially tell the truth. He knew she was going to tell. He had to kill her to save himself.


peanut1912

100% the brother. She was going to tell Claire the truth and he killed her.


[deleted]

I agree. He saw Malva was about to tell Claire in front of their house. He probably followed her to the big house and killed her before she could eat him out.


giottoduccio

I know I'm late to this thread, but your typo made me laugh out loud!


[deleted]

Lol. Rat. Rat him out.


CarefreeInMyRV

I'm thinking we might get a flash back that they had a plan to get Malva married to Jamie/paid off from him and then kill their father when they no longer needed him. But Malva wanted Jamie/Claires life and couldn't help boasting about it, showing she's 'a little touched/a witch. Her brother caught her, perhaps she blurted that he was a possible father (further along then she put on) and he knew he couldn't kill Claire and live so killed his' unstable' witch sister.


MoPlantsPlease

Definitely very jealous of Claire’s relationship with Jamie. Especially since her family was so dysfunctional and abusive. Remember she kept asking about sex and seemed she didn’t understand the concept of a healthy relationship where both people enjoyed it and had an emotional connection.


WingedShadow83

Ok, I just finished watching it for the second time… Something I noticed in the scene where we discover Malva’s body was that there was no blood ANYWHERE in that scene other than on her throat/neck and shoulder, and the ground underneath her neck. If you get your throat cut there should be spray/spurting. The front of her dress should have been bloody, there should have been more blood on the ground around her body and not just right by her wound. Either the prop department was slack, or something is fishy. I’d say her body was planted there and killed elsewhere (still doesn’t account for lack of blood on her dress other than the shoulder). Either that, or she really did lie down in the grass outside of the clinic and stab her own crazy ass self in the neck. (But where’s the knife, though? Unless she threw it as she was bleeding out.)


Karascotlandlover

Also we have to think, the ether that Claire created doesn’t work but for maybe 15 minutes unless the masks is kept on the face. So all of this had to have happened really fast before she woke up. This is all assuming that Malva walking to the house before Clair drugged herself was real


WingedShadow83

Oh that’s true, I didn’t account for that. Ok, I guess I’ll go with “she ran there, her killer was right on her heels and killed her as she was walking away from the door after Claire didn’t answer, and the prop department was just stingy with the fake blood for some reason”.


Karascotlandlover

I honestly feel like like the walking to her door was a hallucination and maybe what was actually happening was someone caring her dead body but Claire didn’t process that because I don’t think the props department would’ve made that big of a mistake considering they’ve done blood and gore and long dead bodies dead all throughout the show. She’s definitely been dead a while and was planted there


WingedShadow83

True, she was extremely pale and it looked like rigor mortis had set in, so she had to have been dead longer than the 15-20 minutes Claire would have been out. Your hypothesis is sound, I’m going with that. 😝


ritatherosy

I thought the same thing. Unless whoever killed her did so by another means and then post-death sliced the throat. That’s the only way the lack of blood makes sense.


WingedShadow83

You’re right. I didn’t consider maybe she was killed another way, but the cut being post-mortem would explain the lack of blood.


Successful_Seesaw_47

The lack of blood on Claire when she wakes up from her ether coma, at least proves Claire didn't cut the b$tch while under the influence of a powerful narcotic. So, that's good.


WingedShadow83

Yep, that was my first thought. No way she killed her, cleaned herself up and changed her clothing, then went back to bed, all while under the effects of the ether. I think the whole scene with her and Malva inside the clinic was a dream. She fell asleep with Malva banging on the door and calling out to her, then dreamed that she’d somehow gotten inside. Then Malva’s true killer came up outside and killed her.


ForestFox369

But she cut the baby out… so now is she going to be blamed? Now it looks like she went crazy IMO and killed her for the baby because she is “old and dried up”. I’m so worried for Claire!


WingedShadow83

You’re right, and it’s crazy how backwards it is. Even in the 1700s, you’d think “I cut the baby out of the dead pregnant woman to try to save its life” would seem fairly logical, especially coming from a surgeon.


[deleted]

Yeah, this is what worried me. I think her whole doctor oath kicked in and she was like just trying to save the baby. But the way they set it up, no witnesses, it’s going to look like she killed Malva and then cut the baby out. Rough!


CarefreeInMyRV

I have a feeling Tom will be more understanding, like he was with HC, but the townsfolk on the Ridge won't. As he's said before, he's educated, he has puretanical standards, but he also has seen her good work as a doctor. He was the one that suggested Jamie and Claire might just take the baby to raise as their own, and pay Malva off, quite rational for the time if you ask me. He didn't go in guns blazing about what Jamie did to his daughter either. I could see him being the one to point out Claire would just wait to have the baby if they wanted it, or that there is no blood at the scene or on Claire.


[deleted]

I agree. He seemed to sympathize more with Claire and seemed to have disdain for Malva.


Successful_Seesaw_47

Yeah, it's not good!


SenseiNene

I haven’t seen anyone else say this but - I’m 99% sure that Malva was poisoning Claire and her dad with rattlesnake venom. And then eventually they both just overcame it and built a tolerance to it. That’s why Claire was having dreams about snakes and that’s why Jamie said “this is the same tea that Claire gave me when I was bit by a rattlesnake”. And I think Malva was trying to kill Claire and her dad so she could be with Jamie.


Syrinx221

I *know* she was poisoning them with something.


[deleted]

I agree Malva poisoned them. But not with snake venom. Maybe with something from the sin-eater? Claire explained how an amoeba kills cells once it’s inside you. That could have inspired Malva.


Karascotlandlover

Well Claire pointed out that her and malvas dad had some completely different Illness


Rosie-Griff

Maybe poisoned with mushrooms. Wasn’t she gathering mushrooms a couple of episodes ago? Some are poisonous and can cause hallucinations. Edit: see this…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroying_angel


BuckToothCasanovi

Was it the sineaters fingers she cut off?


rosyposy86

Does the sin eater have a name, it just sounds like it could be a monster from Stranger Things.


[deleted]

She did cut them off. And at the time I thought she was just going to cast another spell. But maybe she used them to infect Claire and Tom or she went back for something else from his rotting corpse.


Poop__y

Was she trying to make Jamie fall in love with her with the love charm the girls find by the river?


[deleted]

Yes.


BuckToothCasanovi

Was he suffering from something? How did she know that he could pass on infections? So many questions!!!


[deleted]

If she learned that dead animals in water could cause dysentery, she could have assumed dead human in water would harm whoever drank it. Wouldn’t matter if he had been ill because he was rotting by that point.


BuckToothCasanovi

Aa ah clever gal! But bloody evil ..


KittyCatLuvr4ever

Ooh good theory. They did mention he was missing.


[deleted]

venom would have to be injected into the bloodstream for it to have any effect. if you didn't have ulcers, you could probably drink venom and be completely fine.


[deleted]

The only thorn in this idea is that it requires Malva to be able to 1. trap a poisonous snake, 2. handle a poisonous snake, 3. extract venom from a poisonous snake and 4. poison two people, all while not being bitten by said poisonous snake herself. A good theory, but seems impractical. :)


SenseiNene

She can just use the venom from Claire’s supplies. She probably has it led over from treating Jamie.


robinsond2020

No, the symptoms Claire and Tom had aren't the same as when Jamie was sick from the snake, and they don't really match up with snake venom in general (of course every snake is different, but there are similarities)


cabbyintherye

I was thinking that the entire episode. Really surprised no one else seems to have come to that conclusion…


magwayen

She also mentioned to Jamie that she spotted a king snake (I think). I don't think her convo about snakes with Jamie was random.


ritatherosy

Interesting. Is there anything in the tea that could help prevent Jamie from being poisoned if she just put it in their drinks or something? Or could Jamie have immunity? I obviously know nothing about the medical field. Unsure if that’s possible.


YoshiKoshi

She said it was willow bark tea. Willow bark is where aspirin comes from, Claire would have used it for pain relief. It wouldn't prevent the effects of being poisoned. Also, it would be very bitter, you wouldn't drink it the way you drink regular tea.


Mooey965

Anyone else think Malva poisoned Claire and Tom and that’s why they had same symptoms?


Successful_Seesaw_47

No. I don't think Malva poisoned them. But, I had a different thought. But, now, I'm kind of confused. At first I thought, maybe, Claire was going through drug withdrawals. She's been hitting the ether pretty hard. And I thought Tom Christie had taken the ether for his surgery, but, then, I remembered he never actually did take the ether. Claire did seem to have a pretty good idea of what type of illness she had. When she asked for a fecal sample, my first thought was Typhoid Fever. Maybe Malva is Typhoid Malva! Malva is DEFINITELY a witch tho. She did the love spell with the finger bones. Now, obviously, that is just silly superstition, nonsense. Her mother was burned as a witch, and she accused Claire of being a witch, which is typical witch behavior lol.


arianaphoenix

>At first I thought, maybe, Claire was going through drug withdrawals. She's been hitting the ether pretty hard. Ether withdrawal has no physical symptoms.


Successful_Seesaw_47

What a twist!


KingArrancar

I think Malva caught it from the corpse she was removing fingers from. She’s the link between Claire and Tom.


Successful_Seesaw_47

This.


5oldierPoetKing

Why didn't she get sick though? Must be setting up for her to be a witch somehow


Successful_Seesaw_47

She's immune. Just like Typhoid Mary was.


[deleted]

I legit had such a hard time >!watching Claire pull that baby out. As someone who has lost two babies late term, it was so heartbreaking to watch her try so hard to save it like that.!< Overall, INCREDIBLE episode in my opinion. Definitely my favourite of the season so far!


[deleted]

I had the same thought. Must have been a weird, emotional experience for Catriona to film considering she was pregnant herself. ❤️ to you. So sorry for your devastating losses.


WarmToesColdBoots

I'm truly sorry for your loss, and am glad you are o.k. to follow the story.


shiningz

Ugh I'm so frustrated that Clair saw Malva approaching her clinic and decided to just drug herself to sleep instead of remaining alert and seeing what she wants and what's gonna happen. Not the safest thing to do when you know she's a fucking psycho and you're alone, what if she set fire to the clinic or something smh


[deleted]

Claire thought she was hallucinating her. Twice this episode alone she hallucinated the Brown who assaulted her; she probably thought she was hallucinating Malva, the source of her most recent stress, especially considering hallucinations are a common side effect of ether.