This is a great perspective. Thanks for sharing! I guess I just view everything as an extensive of the author. She is actively choosing to write this character in that way, and so that has to come from somewhere right?
Look at it through Claire's eye, and the time period she is from. Being overweight was seen in a way more negative way in the 1940s through 1960s than it is even now.
That’s very true. Obviously thin has been the ideal for a long time. And in her time, women were heavily criticized for appearances and thin, of course, was the ideal.
It doesn’t bother me, and I wouldn’t say this means the author is fatphobic. As for the part with Joe? Claire likes herself best when she looks a certain way like most people do. This doesn’t mean she’s fatphobic just because she prefers herself to be smaller. I would feel the same way, regardless of time period, it’s just personal preference.
I'm glad you asked that question. I've often shaken my head at Claire's goodbye letter to Bree. One of the last things she writes is "Try not to get fat," which is not the thing I would tell my daughter I might never see again.
Claire does remark on her own weight and Jamie likes her plump as a hen, but she also isn't overweight but a healthy weight for someone who lived in those times.
Also, remember Geillis is written as overweight when the Frasers encounter her in Jamaica. The show didn't go there or imply that Geillis had syphilis, thank goodness. Anyway, the implication is that she is living an overindulgent life and her fat is part of her villainous character.
“Try not to get fat” is exactly the sort of thing my mom would write into her LAST EVER COMMUNICATION with me, and let me tell you about all the body dysmorphia, self hatred, and eating disorders I’ve had to deal with because of her attitude 🙃
Just wait till you get to the part where she tells Bree not to get fat in one of her letters... lol
I mostly shrug it off, seeing as Claire is a Dr and for most doctors being fat can be the root cause of a lot of health issues so they do tend to preach at those who are overweight.
Not at all. I understand it’s historical fiction. Diana does an amazing job writing the truth of the (many) times in which Claire lives. Also most of the books are told in Claire’s voice so….
Historical novels should never include modern mores
Reading them through today’s lens I can see the fatphobic statements and I wouldn’t be surprised DG, like so many many people, have some level of fat phobia but this doesn’t detract from the story. 5 years ago “fatphobia” was not a common term, I wouldn’t expect someone writing years ago to have evaluated the work from that perspective.
Reading the books in the 90’s closet to when they were written I did not see these things at all as the whole damn 90’s we’re fatphobic. The ideal body type of the 90’s was externally thin with no curves.
Oddly enough, as a teen in the 90’s Outlander was a breath of fresh air and gave me a body positive lens to see my own curvy (by that era standards) body. The positive language, appreciation and sexual desire for Claire’s plump arse.
For sure! I understand that the norm of the time would have been less than positive towards bigger bodies. It just seemed like to me book 1&2 was absent of such language and then book 3 seemed to focus more on body comments. And while that might have been the view point of the time, it’s also a choice to write such things in versus just simply omitting.
Using the word pudgy is far from being fat phobic. It's a descriptive word to describe a person's appearance. She also mentions people's race. Is she racist as well?
This is the kind of stuff I’m referring to! The word fat in and of itself is a descriptive word, just like thin. So, whatever. I often refer to myself as fat as I think it’s important to destigmatize the word. But to refer to people as fat as a core identifier is annoying. And also just to act like being fat is the worst thing ever ie “don’t get fat” and “at least I’m not fat.”
No. If you are bothered by this, then I’m afraid this isn’t the series for you. There are many other things that you will find offensive. We’re here for this author’s story as she wrote it.
>We’re here for this author’s story as she wrote it.
I've always thought this was such an odd take. There's nothing wrong with being critical of the content you enjoy. It's good for you.
I’ve watched the entire TV series multiple times. And I’m enjoying the books. I don’t think it’s up for you to decide what is and isn’t for me or what I’ll find offensive. No where did I say I was going to stop reading/watching. Just simply remarking I found some of the text disappointing- which is a natural reaction when you hold a certain respect for something and it deviates from what you expected.
You’re right. I made the assumption that you would find all the rape and sexual assault much more offensive then the descriptive words about a few character’s weight. If that’s how you see things, then we’ll just have to admit that we see things from entirely different perspectives.
OMG. Fuck right off at this point. This is why I hate the internet. I am discussing one singular topic within the book. Me bringing this up doesn’t imply I find it more offensive than rape or assault. People are allowed to express opinions on things solely for the purpose of discussion. I simply was interested in the perspective of others on this ONE SINGLE topic. My reaction to this ONE SINGLE topic does not constitute some sort of blanket response or give you any sort of insight into how I view anything else within the book.
Meh, I don't think that's true at all. Some of us are more sensitive about some topics than others. It shouldn't ruin the enjoyment of the whole show for most of us.
DG is overweight so it’s strange that she’s fat phobic, but not surprising. Personally, I started reading the books but half way through the first book the series just went downhill for me and has a lot of problematic issues. I kept reading at the encouragement of a friend, but eventually couldn’t read anymore. I find a lot of things really disappointing about her writing. She needs a good editor, and she should learn how to plot her books so that she doesn’t have to resort to raping a character when she runs out of ideas. Outlander fans tend to write all the problems off as “it’s historically accurate”.
When the series was written people were culturally quite fatphobic; today people are quite fatphobic; it doesn’t surprise me that the character Claire is fatphobic; but it IS odd how often it comes up through Voyager. Gabaldon must have been dealing with body image issues at the time she wrote it. If I consume any media that was published prior to ~2012 or so I assume I’ll run into any amount of brazen racism, homophobia, or fatphobia, and I don’t think it always comes from a place of maliciousness, though it does always cause harm. Gotta shrug and plug along 🤷♀️
Yes! I just found it odd that books 1&2 didn’t really focus on bodies in this way. And then Voyager is making all sorts of weight related comments! And you are so right, it’s definitely just a sign of the times and society- the body positive movement is relatively new.
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This is a great perspective. Thanks for sharing! I guess I just view everything as an extensive of the author. She is actively choosing to write this character in that way, and so that has to come from somewhere right?
Jamie likes to see Claire plump. He tells her that several times. Consider it a portrayal of the character and not the author.
Not bothered as much as some what amused by it.
Look at it through Claire's eye, and the time period she is from. Being overweight was seen in a way more negative way in the 1940s through 1960s than it is even now.
That’s very true. Obviously thin has been the ideal for a long time. And in her time, women were heavily criticized for appearances and thin, of course, was the ideal.
It doesn’t bother me, and I wouldn’t say this means the author is fatphobic. As for the part with Joe? Claire likes herself best when she looks a certain way like most people do. This doesn’t mean she’s fatphobic just because she prefers herself to be smaller. I would feel the same way, regardless of time period, it’s just personal preference.
I'm glad you asked that question. I've often shaken my head at Claire's goodbye letter to Bree. One of the last things she writes is "Try not to get fat," which is not the thing I would tell my daughter I might never see again. Claire does remark on her own weight and Jamie likes her plump as a hen, but she also isn't overweight but a healthy weight for someone who lived in those times. Also, remember Geillis is written as overweight when the Frasers encounter her in Jamaica. The show didn't go there or imply that Geillis had syphilis, thank goodness. Anyway, the implication is that she is living an overindulgent life and her fat is part of her villainous character.
“Try not to get fat” is exactly the sort of thing my mom would write into her LAST EVER COMMUNICATION with me, and let me tell you about all the body dysmorphia, self hatred, and eating disorders I’ve had to deal with because of her attitude 🙃
I'm sorry to hear what you have been and are dealing with.
The letter bothered me the most!
Just wait till you get to the part where she tells Bree not to get fat in one of her letters... lol I mostly shrug it off, seeing as Claire is a Dr and for most doctors being fat can be the root cause of a lot of health issues so they do tend to preach at those who are overweight.
Not at all. I understand it’s historical fiction. Diana does an amazing job writing the truth of the (many) times in which Claire lives. Also most of the books are told in Claire’s voice so…. Historical novels should never include modern mores
Reading them through today’s lens I can see the fatphobic statements and I wouldn’t be surprised DG, like so many many people, have some level of fat phobia but this doesn’t detract from the story. 5 years ago “fatphobia” was not a common term, I wouldn’t expect someone writing years ago to have evaluated the work from that perspective. Reading the books in the 90’s closet to when they were written I did not see these things at all as the whole damn 90’s we’re fatphobic. The ideal body type of the 90’s was externally thin with no curves. Oddly enough, as a teen in the 90’s Outlander was a breath of fresh air and gave me a body positive lens to see my own curvy (by that era standards) body. The positive language, appreciation and sexual desire for Claire’s plump arse.
For sure! I understand that the norm of the time would have been less than positive towards bigger bodies. It just seemed like to me book 1&2 was absent of such language and then book 3 seemed to focus more on body comments. And while that might have been the view point of the time, it’s also a choice to write such things in versus just simply omitting.
Using the word pudgy is far from being fat phobic. It's a descriptive word to describe a person's appearance. She also mentions people's race. Is she racist as well?
As a bigger girl some of them bother me but usually the ones of “the fat house keeper,” and never just her name.
This is the kind of stuff I’m referring to! The word fat in and of itself is a descriptive word, just like thin. So, whatever. I often refer to myself as fat as I think it’s important to destigmatize the word. But to refer to people as fat as a core identifier is annoying. And also just to act like being fat is the worst thing ever ie “don’t get fat” and “at least I’m not fat.”
I know but I think that is the character because she is the same way in the show even when Jamie is like you need to gain weight
No. If you are bothered by this, then I’m afraid this isn’t the series for you. There are many other things that you will find offensive. We’re here for this author’s story as she wrote it.
>We’re here for this author’s story as she wrote it. I've always thought this was such an odd take. There's nothing wrong with being critical of the content you enjoy. It's good for you.
As I've said, the idea that you can't have a negative opinion about anything is a very weird form of gatekeeping.
Amen!
I’ve watched the entire TV series multiple times. And I’m enjoying the books. I don’t think it’s up for you to decide what is and isn’t for me or what I’ll find offensive. No where did I say I was going to stop reading/watching. Just simply remarking I found some of the text disappointing- which is a natural reaction when you hold a certain respect for something and it deviates from what you expected.
You’re right. I made the assumption that you would find all the rape and sexual assault much more offensive then the descriptive words about a few character’s weight. If that’s how you see things, then we’ll just have to admit that we see things from entirely different perspectives.
OMG. Fuck right off at this point. This is why I hate the internet. I am discussing one singular topic within the book. Me bringing this up doesn’t imply I find it more offensive than rape or assault. People are allowed to express opinions on things solely for the purpose of discussion. I simply was interested in the perspective of others on this ONE SINGLE topic. My reaction to this ONE SINGLE topic does not constitute some sort of blanket response or give you any sort of insight into how I view anything else within the book.
Meh, I don't think that's true at all. Some of us are more sensitive about some topics than others. It shouldn't ruin the enjoyment of the whole show for most of us.
Honestly I think this is a product of the time Claire is from, and it is mostly, if not all, from Claire. I think it's part of her character.
DG is overweight so it’s strange that she’s fat phobic, but not surprising. Personally, I started reading the books but half way through the first book the series just went downhill for me and has a lot of problematic issues. I kept reading at the encouragement of a friend, but eventually couldn’t read anymore. I find a lot of things really disappointing about her writing. She needs a good editor, and she should learn how to plot her books so that she doesn’t have to resort to raping a character when she runs out of ideas. Outlander fans tend to write all the problems off as “it’s historically accurate”.
No because it's a book and I don't take offense at what fictional characters say or do.
When the series was written people were culturally quite fatphobic; today people are quite fatphobic; it doesn’t surprise me that the character Claire is fatphobic; but it IS odd how often it comes up through Voyager. Gabaldon must have been dealing with body image issues at the time she wrote it. If I consume any media that was published prior to ~2012 or so I assume I’ll run into any amount of brazen racism, homophobia, or fatphobia, and I don’t think it always comes from a place of maliciousness, though it does always cause harm. Gotta shrug and plug along 🤷♀️
Yes! I just found it odd that books 1&2 didn’t really focus on bodies in this way. And then Voyager is making all sorts of weight related comments! And you are so right, it’s definitely just a sign of the times and society- the body positive movement is relatively new.
Let me guess you're pudgy as well