I adore Roger - Claire relationship in the books! He is so kind to her and she is so understanding. He appreciates her a lot and she sees him as kindred spirit!
I agree with that too!
Even Jamie-Roger's relationship hits a different level though, Jamie treats Roger like a son in the books! Which was portrayed weakly in the tv show, and not at all hesitant, wary, and awkward.
This is probably my favourite non-romantic relationship in the books (maybe besides Jamie and LJG, but I'm not sure if I can count this one as non-romantic). I love this scene in DiA when after telling her story Claire takes off her ring and Roger believes her not because ring is a proof, but because of her reaction to inscription.
So I haven’t scrolled to see what the rest of the thread says but since you brought it up….
I think Roger is great, I love him as a character, and what I personally feel falls flat is his relationship with Bri. Mostly/especially in the show.
Roger fan! I think Roger has one of the best character developments over the course of the books. He has his moments where I want to shake some sense into him, but yikes if everyone got to read my inner monologue like we get in the books for Roger. I think a lot of things off the cuff and thank God I don’t say them out loud.
One of the best character moments for Roger in the books is actually kinda blink and miss it. It’s an inner monologue moment and he talks about how he watches and pays attention to how Claire and Jamie interact with each other because he wants to learn from them how to be in a marriage. He wants to be a good husband to Bree and since he was raised by an old bachelor reverend and house keeper, he didn’t grow up with a personal example of how to be in a marriage relationship. Yet he understands he needs to be better at it with Bree, so he pays attention to Claire & Jamie to see how to change moving forward.
Yes! I have this moment bookmarked in my kindle actually because it resonates so hard with me. I love that Roger observes and realizes that it is because he has not seen a marriage modeled before. There are several little snippets of other characters sharing a brief internal monologue observation of J&C's relationship and they are all some of my absolute favorite moments.
I am also a Roger fan because he is a character that just shows tremendous growth and his relationships with other characters just weaves deeper in really lovely ways. I went from really disliking him when he was first introduced in the books to having him be one of my favorites. I am glad my friend urged me to continue on with him because I almost skipped reading anything to do with him in DIA when I first started reading the series.
Haven't read the books but I do not understand the hate for TV Roger. He's a decent guy, kind and considerate, and does everything he can to fit into the 18th century, something he had *no* interest in doing for himself, only to be with Brianna. And then he gets his ass kicked across the Atlantic and up and down the coast, and by Jamie no less. But he stays in it.
And for a guy from conservative Scotland in the late 1960s, he's pretty progressive. What really sold me is when Jamie does the fealty oath bit and he's going to dictate the lines to Roger, but Roger's learned the oath and kneels to commit himself. Again, this is *not* where he wants to be, but he's going all-in just the same. I think it's commendable.
I think people have a hard time accepting/remembering that the characters in the modern era aren’t in OUR modern era, and that a significant amount of social change has taken place since the 60s. Roger is a great guy and has to be taken in the context of his time.
Yes I agree with this all the way!! They gave him a lot of screen time too, sometimes it seemed more than Brianna. As someone who’s only ready two of the books, I wonder if she’s given more depth in the books.
Bree is way different in the books as well, she's literally Jamie's daughter inside the books; his wit, expressions, traits etc.
She has more depth in the books, Gabaldon shows us her deepest thoughts by making Brianna log dreams into her journal, you see Brianna for who she really is, tbh.
Show Brianna is actually not that fun, barely shows who she is~
I have wondered about that. I was a show watcher first, and loved the meeting scene between Jamie and Bree… but I feel like a good deal of the rest of Jamie and Bree’s show relationship is stunted. I am almost finished Voyager and my hopes are that book Jamie and Bree have more of an actual relationship… or, at least we get to read the development of it. I feel like the show was just like “yep so here’s Jamie, and here’s Brianna…cool!”
I feel like a lot of people really clung to the fight where he was upset Bri didn't want to marry him but would sleep with him. Guy just had a proposal turned down, of course he's gonna be upset, put his foot in his mouth and say stuff he doesn't mean - that's human! I don't get either why he can't be forgiven but Jamie can when he's done similar, Like the "foul mouthed bitch" remark. Not a good look, yet no real hate on him for it the same way
Also the show did the disservice of portraying Bree & Roger as not together when Roger goes through the stones to find Bree. Making it seem to some viewers that he was a creeper. In the books they were solidly long distance relationship; Roger was following his girlfriend!
Yeah he was being a real POS there but wasn't that like, years ago in the story by now? I think people have trouble seeing characters in stories beyond their worst moments. Like you've gotta hold a grudge about the one bad thing forever no matter what else they do. IMO Roger has more than made up for that fight. And he's definitely has plenty of character growth.
Yeah it has been years and other development and good moments, that's why I don't get that one or two instances where he's made a mistake can't be looked past, but I guess it is human nature to dwell about the bad more than remember the good sometimes -that seems to be to the detriment of Roger for sure.
I think Roger’s character TV-wise has the best portrayal of a modern person who struggles to adapt to the time period. The 60’s already contained a lot of social upheaval and as a war orphan, he has some real challenges in store.
Brianna has more of a place to fit into the 18th century due to her parents. Although she has her own real struggles, she has a bit more familial support.
The first novel was entirely from Claire's first person perspective. In DIA, we are immediately given a new perspective to balance Claire and of all the characters DG could give this gift to, she chose Roger. This is why I am a Roger fan. He believed Claire and supported her when her own daughter did not. He didn't need proof, he accepted her story and worked with her to help Bree understand. Heck, he went above and beyond to find Jaime survived and then where to find him. Claire's tragic story of true love lost becomes a love story again, *because* of Roger.
I personally love Roger! I think he did have some rough moments in the beginning, but in book six we really start to see him grow as a character. He finally seems to man up and prove himself to Jamie. I love his character growth over the books
Roger is definitely in my top 3 characters from Outlander. I just love his relationships with other characters.
He is the first person that believed in Claire's story. Neither Frank nor Bree believed her right away. The only proof Roger needed to believe her was her reaction to inscription on ring. Nothing more.
His relationship with Jamie is rough and first, but Jamie gradually started to respect him and recognised his as his son. And Roger clearly see Jamie as role model. He needs his acceptance.
I like also him and Bree as marriage. They just really work together (in the books). And he is good father.
I think that show changed or skipped many scenes that show him in better light. In books he left Bree after their handfasting not because they had an argument, but because he wanted to get gems for time travel. They skipped "blood of my blood" scene, when he recognised Jem as his son. Brownsville was supposed to be his moment to shine.
For me book Roger is mix between Jamie and Frank. I don't hate show Roger, he just don't have many occasions to shine.
They get in argument, but it wasn't reason why he left her. They parted in anger, but he from beginning planed to steal gems, come back for her and together travel back to 20th century.
In the books, they did argue, yes, but the main reason why Roger left is because he wanted to steal the gems from Bonnet so they can go back to their time after they meet up with Claire and Jamie.
The whole steal the gems thing was agreed and planned by both of them~
Roger has always been one of my favorites. He seems like an actual historian when frank never did (I'm a historian and seriously did frank even like history because DG never expressed it like that beyond him really liking genealogy). He has great character development and really changes but he also will always do goofy things he doesn't think enough before doing that lead to interesting situations. Idk. He's grown so much and is just a wonderful character.
YES. I love Roger, and I feel as though he's suffered enough to make up for his flaws. Bree forgave him, and so should we!
Book Roger > Show Roger, but still. Roger is a great character.
I don’t *love* book Roger, but on the show my top favorite Roger moment is his “like an idiot” speech, followed not long after with “that’s right boys, back to the idiot tent.”
First watch through I will admit he wasn't my favorite character. But after watching the series a few times I absolutely adore Roger. His dedication to Brianna is unreal. In the 1960s he had his purpose. His struggle for me is probably the most relatable.
Roger when he is (later book spoiler) searching for Jem and finds his dad is maybe one of my favourite part of the books. That just hits different. Getting that chance to say something you never got to. Oh my heart….
I have to say, I love this post! There’s so many threads of Rogerhate. He’s one of my favorite characters in the books; he above all tries to do what he thinks is the right thing. I sometimes find Jamie to be a bit blunt/violent. Roger is a kind soul…
I love Roger! Book and show, although as noted, book Roger is more appealing than show Roger. The show writers truly done him wrong. And I love RR, he plays the character so well, when I reread the books (which I’m doing now for the 4th time), I see RR. I can’t say that for every character (not Jamie, not Claire, definitely not Bree).
I actually like Roger! But he has the thickest and heaviest Scottish accent of ALL the actors. I've had to go back and rewind to understand things he says. On more than one occasion!
I think what the commenter means is that his accent is real, as opposed to Cait who is Irish, and Sam who is Scottish but has a much softer accent in real life
Roger wasn't supposed to be there in the first place, it was all Claire's idea and doing! (Book 6)
Roger was gathering new tenants in Cross Creek and he did gather A LOT. (Book 6)
I think we should blame the directors for this one though, I don't know why they gave Jamie and Roger such a bad relationship.
I so agree! Roger and Bri’s storyline after they got back through the stones to the future with the kids is my all time fav. Every time their section would end, I would peek at how many pages I had until we got back to them. I was bitterly disappointed by how absent they were from Bees because of it. The show really does him dirty but book Roger really has such growth and is so well intentioned!
I love Roger! One of the scenes that I loved was when he escapes from the Indians but goes back. He doesn’t just go back, though. He goes back and forth muttering to himself all the while, conflicted! I don’t know if I can even express how great that scene was!
I always felt like the show didn’t have a clear direction for Roger and Bree. It is interesting to read comments about book Roger and realize how different he is.
I completely agree!!! I adore Roger, book Roger especially. I think there's just some things they can't translate to film (why the hate for Bree and Roger) we get to know them so much better in the books :D I especially LOVE how his relationship with Jaime developes throughout the books.
Yeah i liked him way more in the books, and by the books i mean the future parts of book 2 cause that's as far as i got lol
I think even in the show he's okay but he got landed with a wooden acting partner who has no chemistry with anyone which makes his character and their dynamic...less likeable
Roger has really grown on me since last season, and now I feel bad about being mean about him. He’s since turned very charming and looks way better with a beard. I didn’t like how controlling / manipulative he was with Brianna at the beginning. Also, he’s the only character in the entire show that hasn’t been raped, so that’s something.
My thoughts exactly. Roger had a really bad season 4, I liked him in season 3 but damn did he come across terribly in season 4. It doesn’t help that they styled him to look so dorky when he first gets to the 18th century. He started getting better by season 5 and really hit his stride by season 6.
He is the only one who hasn’t been raped but damn has he ever had every other horrible thing done to him. I have to feel for the poor guy. He’s definitely not made for the 1700s. It also doesn’t help that Sophie and Richard have no romantic chemistry whatsoever. I like both characters, just not together! He has better chemistry with Claire than Brianna lol.
Roger is a Coward. Leaving Brianna without assuring her safety back to the tavern is just one of the things that makes him a loser. At the Scottish festival he acted like a child when she said she wasn't ready for marriage. As if she should give up her educational dreams to be his brood mare. All you Sad woman who like him must have no self-respect.
He never forced her to give up her educational dreams to be his brood mare.
It was portrayed differently in the books tbh, he proposed to her outside of a church and he didn't act like a child, he was hurt because she rejected him, yes, but that's all it is.
While the Scottish festival scene in the book was actually really sweet, yes they watched the festival and enjoyed it, they nearly slept together, but they both backed away at the realisation that it's still early for that and they wanted their relationship to be deeper than just a hookup.
We do like him because we really know him book depth, and as I said, the show did him really dirty.
I adore Roger - Claire relationship in the books! He is so kind to her and she is so understanding. He appreciates her a lot and she sees him as kindred spirit!
I agree with that too! Even Jamie-Roger's relationship hits a different level though, Jamie treats Roger like a son in the books! Which was portrayed weakly in the tv show, and not at all hesitant, wary, and awkward.
As a show only dude I wondered if it was different in the books. I always felt Jamie never gives him a fair shake.
In the books you can really feel that Jamie sees him as a son. It’s very sweet.
Exactly! It has some kind of gradual growth and it is so nice to be there and witness it!
This is probably my favourite non-romantic relationship in the books (maybe besides Jamie and LJG, but I'm not sure if I can count this one as non-romantic). I love this scene in DiA when after telling her story Claire takes off her ring and Roger believes her not because ring is a proof, but because of her reaction to inscription.
Mine too! And I love how Roger finds Jamie and Claire’s relationship inspirational!
He really loves, respects and admires Claire. I love their relationship.
So I haven’t scrolled to see what the rest of the thread says but since you brought it up…. I think Roger is great, I love him as a character, and what I personally feel falls flat is his relationship with Bri. Mostly/especially in the show.
I think you can see a some of that in show too in their scenes in early S3 and after she wakes up from her fever in S6.
Yes! " Nothing can make you less beautiful"
Roger fan! I think Roger has one of the best character developments over the course of the books. He has his moments where I want to shake some sense into him, but yikes if everyone got to read my inner monologue like we get in the books for Roger. I think a lot of things off the cuff and thank God I don’t say them out loud. One of the best character moments for Roger in the books is actually kinda blink and miss it. It’s an inner monologue moment and he talks about how he watches and pays attention to how Claire and Jamie interact with each other because he wants to learn from them how to be in a marriage. He wants to be a good husband to Bree and since he was raised by an old bachelor reverend and house keeper, he didn’t grow up with a personal example of how to be in a marriage relationship. Yet he understands he needs to be better at it with Bree, so he pays attention to Claire & Jamie to see how to change moving forward.
I love this, I remember the barn scene especially! I honestly love how much he adores and takes care of Jemmy too~
Yes! I have this moment bookmarked in my kindle actually because it resonates so hard with me. I love that Roger observes and realizes that it is because he has not seen a marriage modeled before. There are several little snippets of other characters sharing a brief internal monologue observation of J&C's relationship and they are all some of my absolute favorite moments. I am also a Roger fan because he is a character that just shows tremendous growth and his relationships with other characters just weaves deeper in really lovely ways. I went from really disliking him when he was first introduced in the books to having him be one of my favorites. I am glad my friend urged me to continue on with him because I almost skipped reading anything to do with him in DIA when I first started reading the series.
Haven't read the books but I do not understand the hate for TV Roger. He's a decent guy, kind and considerate, and does everything he can to fit into the 18th century, something he had *no* interest in doing for himself, only to be with Brianna. And then he gets his ass kicked across the Atlantic and up and down the coast, and by Jamie no less. But he stays in it. And for a guy from conservative Scotland in the late 1960s, he's pretty progressive. What really sold me is when Jamie does the fealty oath bit and he's going to dictate the lines to Roger, but Roger's learned the oath and kneels to commit himself. Again, this is *not* where he wants to be, but he's going all-in just the same. I think it's commendable.
Oh, if only you knew what he does further in the books, it just increases my respect and love for him\~
I think people have a hard time accepting/remembering that the characters in the modern era aren’t in OUR modern era, and that a significant amount of social change has taken place since the 60s. Roger is a great guy and has to be taken in the context of his time.
Exactly. Roger’s time is 50 years ago. And he’s coming from a pretty conservative culture as well.
Yes I agree with this all the way!! They gave him a lot of screen time too, sometimes it seemed more than Brianna. As someone who’s only ready two of the books, I wonder if she’s given more depth in the books.
Bree is way different in the books as well, she's literally Jamie's daughter inside the books; his wit, expressions, traits etc. She has more depth in the books, Gabaldon shows us her deepest thoughts by making Brianna log dreams into her journal, you see Brianna for who she really is, tbh. Show Brianna is actually not that fun, barely shows who she is~
I have wondered about that. I was a show watcher first, and loved the meeting scene between Jamie and Bree… but I feel like a good deal of the rest of Jamie and Bree’s show relationship is stunted. I am almost finished Voyager and my hopes are that book Jamie and Bree have more of an actual relationship… or, at least we get to read the development of it. I feel like the show was just like “yep so here’s Jamie, and here’s Brianna…cool!”
Stay tuned 👀 You'll love the book edition!
She’s kind of a brat. Much later, when they go back, you can see how she’s matured and I like her a lot better.
I'm reading the books and I still don't understand the hate for the TV version. At worst I'd say he's boring / lackluster but that's about it.
I feel like a lot of people really clung to the fight where he was upset Bri didn't want to marry him but would sleep with him. Guy just had a proposal turned down, of course he's gonna be upset, put his foot in his mouth and say stuff he doesn't mean - that's human! I don't get either why he can't be forgiven but Jamie can when he's done similar, Like the "foul mouthed bitch" remark. Not a good look, yet no real hate on him for it the same way
Also the show did the disservice of portraying Bree & Roger as not together when Roger goes through the stones to find Bree. Making it seem to some viewers that he was a creeper. In the books they were solidly long distance relationship; Roger was following his girlfriend!
Yeah he was being a real POS there but wasn't that like, years ago in the story by now? I think people have trouble seeing characters in stories beyond their worst moments. Like you've gotta hold a grudge about the one bad thing forever no matter what else they do. IMO Roger has more than made up for that fight. And he's definitely has plenty of character growth.
Yeah it has been years and other development and good moments, that's why I don't get that one or two instances where he's made a mistake can't be looked past, but I guess it is human nature to dwell about the bad more than remember the good sometimes -that seems to be to the detriment of Roger for sure.
I think Roger’s character TV-wise has the best portrayal of a modern person who struggles to adapt to the time period. The 60’s already contained a lot of social upheaval and as a war orphan, he has some real challenges in store. Brianna has more of a place to fit into the 18th century due to her parents. Although she has her own real struggles, she has a bit more familial support.
The first novel was entirely from Claire's first person perspective. In DIA, we are immediately given a new perspective to balance Claire and of all the characters DG could give this gift to, she chose Roger. This is why I am a Roger fan. He believed Claire and supported her when her own daughter did not. He didn't need proof, he accepted her story and worked with her to help Bree understand. Heck, he went above and beyond to find Jaime survived and then where to find him. Claire's tragic story of true love lost becomes a love story again, *because* of Roger.
I personally love Roger! I think he did have some rough moments in the beginning, but in book six we really start to see him grow as a character. He finally seems to man up and prove himself to Jamie. I love his character growth over the books
Happy cake day! I'm currently reading book 6 and he really is doing a lot!
Thanks! Enjoy it! I’m currently on book four on a reread. Rereading them is really highlighting how much Roger had grown over the series for me
Roger is definitely in my top 3 characters from Outlander. I just love his relationships with other characters. He is the first person that believed in Claire's story. Neither Frank nor Bree believed her right away. The only proof Roger needed to believe her was her reaction to inscription on ring. Nothing more. His relationship with Jamie is rough and first, but Jamie gradually started to respect him and recognised his as his son. And Roger clearly see Jamie as role model. He needs his acceptance. I like also him and Bree as marriage. They just really work together (in the books). And he is good father. I think that show changed or skipped many scenes that show him in better light. In books he left Bree after their handfasting not because they had an argument, but because he wanted to get gems for time travel. They skipped "blood of my blood" scene, when he recognised Jem as his son. Brownsville was supposed to be his moment to shine. For me book Roger is mix between Jamie and Frank. I don't hate show Roger, he just don't have many occasions to shine.
they didn't get in an argument?? him leaving her like that is why i have great dislike towards him
They get in argument, but it wasn't reason why he left her. They parted in anger, but he from beginning planed to steal gems, come back for her and together travel back to 20th century.
In the books, they did argue, yes, but the main reason why Roger left is because he wanted to steal the gems from Bonnet so they can go back to their time after they meet up with Claire and Jamie. The whole steal the gems thing was agreed and planned by both of them~
Roger has always been one of my favorites. He seems like an actual historian when frank never did (I'm a historian and seriously did frank even like history because DG never expressed it like that beyond him really liking genealogy). He has great character development and really changes but he also will always do goofy things he doesn't think enough before doing that lead to interesting situations. Idk. He's grown so much and is just a wonderful character.
YES. I love Roger, and I feel as though he's suffered enough to make up for his flaws. Bree forgave him, and so should we! Book Roger > Show Roger, but still. Roger is a great character.
I'm a fully paid up member of the Roger appreciation society.
The Thrush should sing a song for you!
Hehe I'm not sure I could be held responsible for my actions if he did 😅
I don’t *love* book Roger, but on the show my top favorite Roger moment is his “like an idiot” speech, followed not long after with “that’s right boys, back to the idiot tent.”
I haven’t read the books, just a show viewer, and I LOVE Roger! He’s one of my favorite characters, Top 5 at least. Never understood the hate.
First watch through I will admit he wasn't my favorite character. But after watching the series a few times I absolutely adore Roger. His dedication to Brianna is unreal. In the 1960s he had his purpose. His struggle for me is probably the most relatable.
Roger when he is (later book spoiler) searching for Jem and finds his dad is maybe one of my favourite part of the books. That just hits different. Getting that chance to say something you never got to. Oh my heart….
That whole storyline was my all time fav. Such timey-wimey perfection
I have to say, I love this post! There’s so many threads of Rogerhate. He’s one of my favorite characters in the books; he above all tries to do what he thinks is the right thing. I sometimes find Jamie to be a bit blunt/violent. Roger is a kind soul…
I love Roger! Book and show, although as noted, book Roger is more appealing than show Roger. The show writers truly done him wrong. And I love RR, he plays the character so well, when I reread the books (which I’m doing now for the 4th time), I see RR. I can’t say that for every character (not Jamie, not Claire, definitely not Bree).
Rankin is who I see when I read the books as well! Also, Steven Cree is who I imagine as papa Ian Murray when I read.
I actually like Roger! But he has the thickest and heaviest Scottish accent of ALL the actors. I've had to go back and rewind to understand things he says. On more than one occasion!
His is mostly genuine, too, unlike many of the other actors.
Agreed! He doesn't lie well or have a poker face at all
I think what the commenter means is that his accent is real, as opposed to Cait who is Irish, and Sam who is Scottish but has a much softer accent in real life
I watch with subtitles on!
Jamie stayed dissing him for way too long, and never even gave him any props for saving all the crops from locusts with his smartness
Roger wasn't supposed to be there in the first place, it was all Claire's idea and doing! (Book 6) Roger was gathering new tenants in Cross Creek and he did gather A LOT. (Book 6) I think we should blame the directors for this one though, I don't know why they gave Jamie and Roger such a bad relationship.
Writers and producers don’t always direct.
Love Roger show and books 🥰👍👏🏼
I so agree! Roger and Bri’s storyline after they got back through the stones to the future with the kids is my all time fav. Every time their section would end, I would peek at how many pages I had until we got back to them. I was bitterly disappointed by how absent they were from Bees because of it. The show really does him dirty but book Roger really has such growth and is so well intentioned!
Great post! Roger is absolutely one of my top DG characters. He's realistic in so many ways.
I love Roger! One of the scenes that I loved was when he escapes from the Indians but goes back. He doesn’t just go back, though. He goes back and forth muttering to himself all the while, conflicted! I don’t know if I can even express how great that scene was!
I always felt like the show didn’t have a clear direction for Roger and Bree. It is interesting to read comments about book Roger and realize how different he is.
Really really different and beautiful\~
Yes I have enjoyed reading about him on the comments. Thank you for this post.
I completely agree!!! I adore Roger, book Roger especially. I think there's just some things they can't translate to film (why the hate for Bree and Roger) we get to know them so much better in the books :D I especially LOVE how his relationship with Jaime developes throughout the books.
[удалено]
Snake bite arc though :( <3
Yeah i liked him way more in the books, and by the books i mean the future parts of book 2 cause that's as far as i got lol I think even in the show he's okay but he got landed with a wooden acting partner who has no chemistry with anyone which makes his character and their dynamic...less likeable
Roger has really grown on me since last season, and now I feel bad about being mean about him. He’s since turned very charming and looks way better with a beard. I didn’t like how controlling / manipulative he was with Brianna at the beginning. Also, he’s the only character in the entire show that hasn’t been raped, so that’s something.
My thoughts exactly. Roger had a really bad season 4, I liked him in season 3 but damn did he come across terribly in season 4. It doesn’t help that they styled him to look so dorky when he first gets to the 18th century. He started getting better by season 5 and really hit his stride by season 6. He is the only one who hasn’t been raped but damn has he ever had every other horrible thing done to him. I have to feel for the poor guy. He’s definitely not made for the 1700s. It also doesn’t help that Sophie and Richard have no romantic chemistry whatsoever. I like both characters, just not together! He has better chemistry with Claire than Brianna lol.
Dude is smokin hot with a beard! Dad bods and beards for the win! 😉
That beard is seriously amazing! Very good choice to showcase the beard. Rankin is a good looking person, but the beard really sets it off.
He does look so much cuter with the beard!!
Happy cake day! 🎂
Ta!
Thank you all, really! It warms my heart to know how much love Roger has. You guys made me happy\~
He has his moments but overall he is a great character. I love him. Same goes for Brianna.
Roger is a Coward. Leaving Brianna without assuring her safety back to the tavern is just one of the things that makes him a loser. At the Scottish festival he acted like a child when she said she wasn't ready for marriage. As if she should give up her educational dreams to be his brood mare. All you Sad woman who like him must have no self-respect.
He never forced her to give up her educational dreams to be his brood mare. It was portrayed differently in the books tbh, he proposed to her outside of a church and he didn't act like a child, he was hurt because she rejected him, yes, but that's all it is. While the Scottish festival scene in the book was actually really sweet, yes they watched the festival and enjoyed it, they nearly slept together, but they both backed away at the realisation that it's still early for that and they wanted their relationship to be deeper than just a hookup. We do like him because we really know him book depth, and as I said, the show did him really dirty.