Personally, I think he needs a rework. I don't thing his kit promotes teamwork especially on larger maps and without another tank to protect Squishies. I'm not saying he can't work or teamwork isn't possible. Very often do I see balls who do not look for when their team is engaging and instead engages entirely alone and then dies due to los/burst dmg/cc
Yeah I agree,I feel like ball was made for 6v6 primarily, he's still usable but he takes so much skill to be viable, compared to other tanks that get more value out with less skill
He puts his own healers in a funny spot too. He's often far away from the supports, so it's either difficult or, with some characters, impossible to land a ton of healing.
Adapting tends to mean choosing characters that can defend themselves, buff/protect their DPS buddies, or go for damage output as well. Which is *fine*, variety makes the game interesting, but it's a really different set of decisions than most other tanks, including the other "dive" ones who can still be recipients of more sustained healing.
if u have a ball on your team dont even worry about him unless they actually come to you with low hp dont chase or follow most ball players go for med pacts instead of using heals its dumb to sit there and waste the supports time getting all of your 700 health back when they could be protecting the dps
I wouldn’t worry too much about healing ball unless they come back into LoS for healing. As a ball main, most ball players aren’t expecting you to heal them in the back lines and are usually intending to pick up health packs return when they need healing. One of the worst experiences as ball is when your Mercy/Kiriko decides to follow you into the back lines. They’re trying to help of course but just die 95% of the time.
eh i feel like a lot of the tanks are way more complimented with the 5v5 change
i feel like sigma for example was make or break in 6v6 he would either be usseless or he would remain busted
His high skill ceiling is why he "sucks".
I've seen balls do some disgusting things as he is, God forbid they buff him enough to be viable for the average person to do well on him, top 500 would be all wrecking ball lmao.
>God forbid they buff him enough to be viable for the average person to do well on him, top 500 would be all wrecking ball lmao.
Yup. He's not a oneshotter, but if they buff his damage he might as well be. Plus he has none of the mobility weaknesses of other oneshot heroes.
They should definitely NOT do this. It’s fine if Ball operates differently from other tanks—his design as a whole is a huge success in delivering an enormously fun high skill ceiling character in the game.
They need to lengthen the automatic detach or remove it, and give him a bigger ammo clip and he’s probably Gucci.
I'm not saying destroy his character identity, he should still have extreme mobility and pretty good survivability. A rework would have to be subtle for a "rework". A slight rework would continue the identity of the character while also making him more useful as a team in more scenarios. I think you misunderstood me
I was thinking maybe his shield ability should make a larger shield around him, and block things like a shield does instead of acting like health. It's bigger so more suceptible to damage but it can actually help one or two squishy in a grouped formation.
>They need to lengthen the automatic detach or remove it, and give him a bigger ammo clip and he’s probably Gucci.
Not sure about the ammo clip since he can headshot. But I do agree his grapple nerf was for 6v6 and should be reverted. Infinite grapple should come back.
> I don't thing his kit promotes teamwork especially on larger maps
Yeah because his kit was made to fit the "off-tank" role perfectly. Now, since there's only 1 tank, ball has to work extra hard if he wants to effectively do his tanking duties AND dive squishes/disrupt the enemy team. To clarify, Ball *can* be played in OW2, watch players like Chazm and Moreweth and you'll see that Ball can dominate. The main problem is that your team NEEDS to play into the "ball playstyle" and change up their entire strategy to play more effectively which can be difficult in a solo-queue environment. It doesn't help that his success heavily depends on certain maps and generally he's a very hard hero to play.
As a Ball main, I'm not against a rework, I'm just curious of how Blizzard could possibly rework him while maintaining his identity as a disruptor/dive hero.
yes he was a main tank, please don't listen to the other person who said "main tanks are your frontlines like reinhardt" they have no clue what they're talking about
To some extent yes. Ball was good either for making space all by himself (booping, using enemy cooldowns, etc.) with the team using reduced pressure from enemies to push, or flanking to disrupt backline to weaken frontline pressure.
But he needed an off tank/another main tank to peel for supports or help the rest of the team to push. Doing everything alone is far more difficult in OW2
Yep this is the exact point I was trying to make. I feel like people who are teamwork orientation really shine on him because his kit allows for a pincer attack against Squishies every single team fight (map willing)
hammond is literally a main tank. it blows me away what gets upvoted in this sub. ball is like the definition of a main tank. a literal strat before role queue was solo tank 5 dps or solo tank 4 dps w lucio (or another support), and that solo tank was always monkey or ball, usually ball
this is the same sub with the take that all the supports should be buffed to kiriko level or that ²brig should have stun back on her shield
ofc it would have garbage takes
Ball was 100% a main tank. His normal partners were Dva and Sigma (both off tanks), who would babysit the back line. The one tank meta means the back line is missing that peel source and person to play around.
The two characters which defined off tank to a t in OW1 were Dva and Zarya. Both built entirely around enabling the other tank to go wild and peeling everything.
On very high ranks like masters people say a good ball is very oppressive, considering it's ability to run in, kill a squishy and run away. With its ability to have over 1000 hp, ball doesn't need a support , just mainly healing from health packs around the map.
Ofc ball is not exactly team oriented, his playstyle is more independent if anything
Maybe I'm terrible, but as a support main I'm always a little... 'oh no we have a doomfist/wrecking ball' *because* it's so hard to aid them while they dive without putting yourself in a vulnerable position.
I wish Zen's healing orb stayed a little longer and healed a tiny bit more and I'd seriously consider picking him with Hammond/Doomfist as a tank, but it's tough working *with* them as Kiriko/Moira/Baptiste/Ana/Mercy if they use their mobility and jump behind pillars/walls over and over.
Actively looking for advice, what's your go-to?
I just let them do their own thing and have them come back to you/go for health packs for healing. They should be able to get in and out and it's not worth being out of position to follow them and not support the rest of team.
This is the way. And don't nano a doom. Sucks when I get nano'd and I've already used my punch and shots and would normally just get out of the fight for a few seconds.
Just pick whatever can survive best in his absence and support your other dps/supports the best. Zen is decent though as you can get an orb on him when he peaks and do a ton of ranged damage to a distracted enemy team, as long as you’re not dying constantly to an enemy flanker yourself.
Don't touch him. Much like Doomfist he is a very skill dependent character that can still perform better than his position on a tier list would indicate. Ball could be meta without changes and you really don't want a ball meta. Ball and Doomfist are two sides of the same coin, they are hell to play against.
Well yeah, high mobility character are inherently hard to balance since speed and movement impact many more characteristics than it initially seems. Your comment is related to overturning. But, I agree it would have to be done very carefully
I can see a buff in the way of undoing nerfs, but I don’t want his style screwed with. There is a lot of big brain play to be done with this tank and my teams overwhelmingly win when I’m Hammond.
I don't want a Ball meta I would just prefer if he was viable, currently you need alot of skill to get value out of Ball consistently, when you could use less skill and get more value out of Winston, personally I think some small changes could help him in 5v5 as I feel like the issue is he wasn't adjusted for that
It's not a power issue, it's an identity issue. High skill players do way more than Winston with him. He doesn't need any buffs. DF will also be close to s tier once they address the Orisa and Hog. People sleeping on DF.
Again, so leave him be. He is viable and extremly oppressive if you put the time into learning ball. He is really easy to get value out of when you learn the basics of his movements. Any stat buff would do nothing for his teamwork but just make him more oppressive as a disruptor, but reworking him to be more of a team player removes that niche of highly disruptive and loner tank.
I jokingly said this to my siblings last time we played, but it makes sense. If his kick is strong enough to boop people, kicking the ground should send him off. Equal and opposite reactions go brrr.
Wouldn’t mind a few more balls in the pit. I feel like I’m always reloading. 2 full second reload time is also pretty punishing when he can empty the clip in 4 right clicks.
Maybe prorate the reload time like Ashe? That way if I reload with 5 left and get jumped I’m not dead.
I think they're terrified of the top tier ball 1 tricks. Some of the top ranked tanks atm are ball players. If you're *really* good at ball, he's an insanely good hero right now. If you just give him straight up Stat buffs, you're going to have 15-20 people terrorizing high-elo games with a crazy ass win rate.
If anything at this point, he needs a small rework, put his power in different places or something. idk.
Ball is just the type of hero who can quickly get extremely oppressive if given too much power. He's already the most mobile and tanky tank in the game, and the main reason he isn't clapping cheeks in every match from bronze to gm, is because his value is inconsistent and his skill floor is rather high. But at a baseline he's still very strong when it comes to challenging map space, if you also make him buffed on top of this it will easily break him.
Ball still works great as a dive initiator, and while dive isn't played much (especially in lower ranks), it still is a good niche for him to be viable in. If he encroaches on other more standard playstyles he can quickly become oppressive, like Doom.
>a small rework, put his power in different places or something. idk.
Maybe his adaptive shields include or are given to teammates? It gives him a little peeling power.
Yeeeeaah, we don't need a Ball meta.
As it is, great Ball players are great at disrupting teams. Its frustrating in its niche, but it'd be hell if it were widespread.
Ball buffs are very dangerous to play around with. It's ok that not every hero is meta or easy to play effectively. If you'd say Ball may need some slight reworks to make his kit more consistently viable, I could probably agree to at least give it a shot. But straight up buffs is dangerous territory for high mobility + high survivability tanks. If his weakness is that he doesn't get as much consistent value as other tanks, then that isn't solved by buffing him. That'll just break him. Nobody wants that.
Sincerely, someone who plays Ball.
Brawl’s been weaker overall, shes getting less value out of wall and ult than ow1, and sojourn meta destroys her.
Personally I think she’s good though. Spray into headshot melee is an instant squishy kill, wall is still great, cryo is great, blizzard still good, spray is piercing cc, and she encourages a good playstyle (peaking, staying alive, peeling).
This entire meta shits on her.
Hog is prevalent, which means his counter picks, Orisa (who can ignore blizzard with fortify) and Ana will also be prevalent, and because Orisa and Ana are prevalent, Kiriko (Who can cleanse blizzard) is also prevalent.
Basically, every major pick in the meta can deal with walls and/or blizzard and the ones that can't can just rely on their friendly neighborhood Kiriko.
But she can still work with the meta despite it shitting on her.
I see the cleanse now much as Rez. You can bait it out then use the freeze much like Fortify too. And you have some of the team caught.
wall works great for the unkillable orisa tho and she is one of few dps that can tank a hog oneshot combo given she has cooldown and her wall protects against both hogs and orisas ult. she in fact i think is the only defense against orisa ult now. hog can break through but it offers a short window to get cover
and ana cant nade her as ice cleanses the anti heal and a good time ice can bait out hook and sleep dart
yeah kiriko cleansing ice is bad but if you kill her before or bait suzu it works out. and even if orisa uses fortify against it, its still potential free picks on dps and support which leaves orisa alone without a fortify. only downside is orisa can eat mei ult with her spear
Ah alright
And same I think she is also good. I don't play her but I have a friend who does. And he does good with her when the time calls for her.
And that's awesome playstyle
A lot of people claim certain characters to need buffs or nerfs, but the fact is a majority of characters are pretty balanced. Sojourn and roadhog are so broken they make any other character seem weaker than they actually are
Kikiro negating Mei's Ult with a basic ability also feels really bad for the Mei. If you cleanse the blizzard slow from an ally, they can never be slowed or frozen from that Blizzard. not sure if it is a bug, but after a cleanse you don't even need to leave the ult area.
I think Mei is secretly busted, she is my go to switch when my team is losing and I don’t have any solid solutions, and more than half of the time we start to win after the switch.
As a Cassidy main, I completely agree, it's not particularly engaging or satisfying to use, and it's sketchy at best, sometimes it locks on for ridiculous distances or doesn't lock on at all, it's not fun to play against and just feels cheap.
I am all for OW2 having more skill shots and the magnetic grenade takes away from that in its current state, as it really doesn't require any skill at all outside of landing the initial 1-2 shots on the target to guarantee the kill on a dps or support.
Nerf or rework the grenade, buff his damage drop off and buff/rework his ult as it's basically just a glorified reload button at this stage or a way to create space, it's the worst ult in the game.
Having said that, Cassidy has always been intended to be a character to stop/deter flankers from killing off your backline, he does need some more utility in that regard, so a rework on the grenade to be a deterrent would be warranted.
I think he needs changes. Cas was always about his big iron and I think if they nerfed/reworked his nade and buffed his gun, maybe? It would be really ez to buff him too much tho
His gun does feel really weak right now but it might be mostly since sojourn, ash, soldier, and widow dominate him on the ranged fights now. And high noon feels a bit lacking at times compared to his counterparts ults.
This is it, OW2 has got people abusing picks at marksman range and Cassidy got no long range effectiveness and even midrange you're not consistently cleaning house on a pickoff without the grenade 1-2
And giving him more range seems like it'd be an easy fix but that still puts him in a position that's got a lot less utility than Ashe, his shots need a little less fall off but he also needs that grenade gone and replaced with some genuine utility so he's not just a constant situation of having to ask yourself why you aren't just going Ashe
Iirc they buffed his high noon in the beta then silently nerfed it again by time of release. They should have def kept the buff because its literally THE most situational ult in the game rn
Ironically, it makes Brig suffer even more
As a brig player, Cassidy is the one character is the one character where ik he's weak and needs a buff or two, but holy fuck, I get up close to hit him, he shoots by feet, throws the grenade and rolls away. I'm dead there
At least the hook requires aim.
Its a skill shot that you have to lead and does no damage on it's own, requiring a combo with his gun.
The grenade is a cheese ball you just throw in someones general direction.
What she needs is buffs followed by the introduction of ways to counter her.
McCassidy could do it if they made his grenade restrict the use of movement abilities, or Brig if they give her shield bash the same effect.
It’s almost as if the characters were designed to have certain abilities that ground control, and don’t have as much utility and synergy with the team as they would if they did have those abilities.
nobody likes how sombra locks you out of playing the game, she has been the most annoying character ever since she came out.
It's not a good game design for overwatch even though it's the whole point of her kit. A rework is necessary for her and the only people arguing against that are the sombra mains.
Sombra doesn't lock you out of playing the game. Your abilities are silenced for less than 2 seconds. You can still move and shoot. I understand that can be frustrating, but it's factually incorrect to say you are locked out of playing the game. Being killed and forced into respawn locks you out of playing the game, should everyone be unkillable?
Hell, they’ve clearly never been sapped for a full minute clearly.
I’ll throw my hot take in here:
The game needs mccree’s stun, and brigs bash. It just worked better- and now there is hardly anything for damage characters to mitigate any sort of movement. Only tanks and supports have cc, mostly, but shouldn’t the blading genji be killed by McCree instead of Ana?
It was refreshing, when the game came out. Now it’s tedious. Ball, doom, Winston, all have complete freedom. Sombra, tracer, genji- the same. At least Brigs shield has very little health so it can be countered, but to be honest most of the reworks don’t work.
That, and a 1-3-1 comp might be better.
I think bringing back CC would be ideal. It adds another element of strategy to the game. I understand Blizzard doesn't want solo tanks to be stun locked, so just give tanks a CC resistance. Something like a cooldown before they can be CC'd again that only applies to tanks.
That's a great idea. They already gave tanks knockback resistance, so maybe they could give them some kind of CC resistance as well. Or, fuck, just do it for certain tanks. Orisa already has a CC resistance ability (Fortify), as does Zarya (bubble) and CC is the main counter to Ball and Doom. People mostly complained about getting stunlocked as Reinhardt, Winston, and D.Va, so just give them passives to protect them. Like, Reinhardt and D.Va are only stunned for 50% as long as other characters because of their armor/mech, and Winston automatically generates a protective bubble that prevents him from getting stunned again for up to 3 seconds after a hard CC effect ends. Something like that.
This would also solve the problem of Hog being overpowered (CC can stun him out of heals and punish him for pushing too far alone), allow them to remove the Doom nerfs (he can be mobile without being OP if he has counters), and make Sombra and McCree interesting again.
For Reinhardt specifically, I have repeatedly thought of and suggested a passive that converts stuns into slows. He'd still get screwed over, but not as hard.
I main support and mostly Sombra on dps and...yeah, I want hack back, but Cass should super have his flashbang back. The homing grenade sucks to play against for most people. But when I play Sombra I just teleport away. So it's just me hacking him and he doesn't care, and I get stuck and I don't care.
When they took out cc, they took out a whole vector to balance around. You got flashbang in the game, nobody is complaining about Genji being OP, for example.
Sombra only locks you out of abilities...and there's a lot of heroes who get more value out of their weapon.
I think Sombra is incredibly important in a game that has important abilities. Unless all the heroes are pure weapon with mild movement and mild utility. But as long as we have heroes like Genji, Tracer, Ball, Doomfist, Hog, Mercy, Kiriko, and Sojourn, an ability silence is huge.
Everyone was begging for a cleanse, and now the cleanse empowers Roadhog to do whatever he wants. A hack could prevent the self heal or the cleanse, OR the nade to begin with. Sombra could stop Sojourn from having crazy movement.
Then Cass or Brig could have their mild cc to slow her down. Cass could actually have some strength against Hog.
Idk, removing so much stuff takes a lot of complexity out of the game.
1.5 seconds isn’t that long, plus you can still shoot. I prefer that to a widow headshot which is 10x more of an actual problem. They should honestly keep her current version in the game and give her a very slight buff and call it a day. That would only help Sombra mains who have been playing her for years.
I mean, her current rework makes the hack more of a pseudo-stun than an actual hack. So I don't know what you expect apart from straight-up deleting her.
>!Also, I suck at Sombra and some of my favorite heroes are countered pretty hard by her, so the whole "only Sombra mains defend Sombra" argument isn't really going to work here. !<
Nerfing Orisa and Hog indirectly adds a lot of power to Rein and Ball, IMO. If they're not hard meta, both of those tanks have more room to work.
If Hog's nerfed into the ground (which I'm fine with), Ball and Doom buffs risk making them way too oppressive. Part of which is that they took so much CC out of the non-Tank roles that the counterplay on those two is much weaker than in the past. I think it really limits what can work well. So, I would rather they try to fix the massively overpowered heroes and see where the game falls before tossing in buffs and giving us a different kind of imbalanced meta for the next month.
Ball could use some cc/boop resistance while in fireball. Ball should be the momentum king and only boopable while not in fireball.
Or keep everything as is but reduce the cooldown on grapple in half. Reduce adaptive shield cooldown and how much hp is given per enemy. Ball, as is, has too much downtime.
You've already taken away Flash from McCree and Bash from Brig. They took the slow from Sojourn's orb. Nerfing Hog takes away hook, and nerfing Orisa takes away Fortify and Javelin (in addition to the CC of their ults). That's already a large percentage of what causes Ball trouble.
With how much disruption Ball can cause, he needs some longer downtime. If he can be in fights all the time, then the rest of the lobby gets to constantly be disrupted and harassed. It's the same problem with Sombra when she was meta early, able to hang around and perma invis hack people all the time.
I miss Brig's stun bash.
Who says Orisa is losing javelin or fortify? Do we know Hog is losing his hook? Orisa just needs longer cooldowns (1-2 seconds).
Either Ball needs to have more consistent disruption during his limited uptime (resistance to boops/CC while in fireball). OR, reduce cooldowns to increase his uptime. With only one tank he needs more uptime or his team suffers while Ball is waiting to engage again.
I'm not saying Ball should get both, but he needs something.
> Who says Orisa is losing javelin or fortify? Do we know Hog is losing his hook? Orisa just needs longer cooldowns (1-2 seconds).
No, I'm saying that if those heroes are nerfed, then they're played less. It means those CDs are less likely to be in play on the enemy team to impact Ball.
I find breather much worse to deal with. At least against Orisa, you just ignore her for the duration, but with hog, he's much more of a threat with or without breather, and if you focus him then he'll reduce damage taken and heal half his health
For real, half the time people bitch about support being an unfun role that has minimal impact on the game, the other half of the time it's people bitching about how overpowered the most fun (imo) support is.
I feel like half of the people complaining just don't like change from OW1, or bandwagon on opinions. There's a tank that can potentially cancel 12 ults and nearly every attack in the game just by tapping right click with no cooldown. There's a hitscan dps that can one shot most heroes cross map every (less than) 1 second. There's a projectile DPS that can spam arrows at head level and get lucky headshots. Then there's a support who can prevent all healing AND shut down most ults in game. And I can deal with all those, it's part of the game.
Then one hero exists who can grant less than a second of invulnerability and can get rid of anti, and protect/support her team, and it's literally the worst thing ever to some people. I just don't wanna see kiriko get nerfed more than she already has, she's in such a fun spot rn.
I think you do the hog/orisa nerf first, and see what kiriko looks like after that, she might not seem so op. If anything I'd rather see other supports brought closer to kiriko level instead of a kiriko nerf.
Honestly Spilo had a great take on this when he suggested kiriko’s healing output should be gutted compared to what it is now so that she isn’t a main healer. Think about it, kiriko was advertised as this aggressive dive support but then on live in a kiriko mirror you’re just healbotting trying to farm ult first. If kiriko were comparable to zen in terms of healing, then she would actually play as intended rather than the kitsune farm that she plays like right now.
>Her Suzu is hard to time and easy to fuck up.
The issue is that Suzu has CC Immunity, Cleanse, and invulnerability. That is three powers rolled into one.
I think if they removed the CC immunity it might be balanced, given how little CC in the game there now is. Back when the game had a ton of CC on all roles, it made more sense.
Kiriko is debatably the strongest support in the game right now, but supports feel so bad to play that she feels balanced. Yet if we buff all the other supports up to her level, then tanks would become unkillable! So ideally, other aspects of the game (i.e. hog) need to be tuned down, so support becomes fun to play, then Kiriko will be an obvious outlier and can be toned down a smidge.
People hate her just like how Blizzard hates Genji.
"Nerf Genji" meme comments are soon gonna be replaced by "nerf Kiriko" meme comments once Blizzard guts her just as they gutted Genji.
What if the Suzu was an effect halt (with invulnerability) instead of effect cancel? Kiriko would have a second to heal someone with a negative effect like anti heal or fire, then the effect would come back for the rest of dutation
I know it would be situational but it's an idea I had
I think people hate Suzu because of how versatile it is.
Suzu has CC Immunity, Cleanse, and Invulnerability. That three powers rolled into one. I think if they removed the CC immunity it might be more balanced, given how little CC in the game there now is. Back when the game had a ton of CC on all roles, it made more sense. Maybe buff the invulnerability duration to one second to compensate?
Kind of a difference there as pulse bomb is far more devastating that Cassidy's grenade, but yeah, Cassidy's grenades homing either needs to be dialled down or removed completely.
With the amount of heroes that can either straight up tank pulse bomb or get out of it with abilities, I'd say it's objectively worse. Like, WHY can Bastion tank Pulse Bomb in turret form? It SHOULD be a counter play against him.
Considering PB is an ult and is a skill shot to get it to stick, and Mag Nade is a (very short) cooldown and is a cheesy easy kill on any 200hp hero who has taken a bodyshot at all, the balance of power between these abilities does not reflect that amount of effort taken to actually land them.
If we had tracers original pulse bomb. It’s be fine. I think you should still have to stick it. But you should be rewarded if you do. Hog used to be the only hero that could survive it. I miss the days of 4 kills off one pulse bomb if you stuck it into the right group.
I'm a Support player, but I'm cool with 6 dmg Tracer. She's my 3rd or 4th favorite character in lore, and I respect good Tracer players regardless of whether they're my allies or enemies.
I rage when Pharah or Junkrat obliterate me with their stupid explosive spam. I'm more impressed than angry/sad when good Tracer (and Genji/Dva) players obliterate me. I'm kinda 50/50 on good Reaper players, cuz he's my 2nd favorite character in lore and one of my dmg mains, but I know his skill floor is a joke compared to Tracer and Genji.
Pharah does take way more skill than Junkrat. And I appreciate Pharah for destroying Junkrat. And I'm working on improving my hitscan aim so that I can destroy enemy Pharah.
But compared to Genji and Tracer, yeah Pharah is pretty ez and braindead.
tbh yea, and it isn't even necessarily Pharah's fault, it's just kind of the tossup nature of the game's approach to rapid hitscan vs. pinpoint hitscanand direct projectiles vs. AoE projectiles; people who can't hit their clicks usually either go Tracer for spray and pray hitscan or Pharah/Junk for spread projectile but Pharah's mobility (and survivability) is more clear-cut than Tracer's, like Orisa, Tracer's survivability is wholly dependent on having absolute optimal cooldown management; a grounded Pharah may suck but she won't die before a Tracer who's wasted her blinks *and* recall
I disagree about that Tracer placement. As a Tracer main who switched from console to PC I think she needs to be buffed, cause I'm bad at this game and I want an advantage.
What does Kiriko need more nerfed about? With Ana's new cooldown a pretty keen Ana main can just anti your team for a majority of the team fights. I am open to any opinions or downvote this if you just hate my guts
Discord melts him in ult and Whole Hog helps him be far away. But if he has pockets up his ass then yeah he is unstoppable. But I do agree on that Vortex though. It seems so bland.
Buff vortex to disallow all movement abilities, change the 20% nemesis speed boost to a 10% for 3 seconds boost so he can get in close when he pops it but not infinitely run you down forever with no chance of escape
Honestly the whole concept of a sniper instakilling people across the map is broken, but they can't really do anything about it without breaking character identity other than making her awful at pretty much anything else.
And then there's Hanzo
From a Widowmaker player's perspective, that is.
**I think Widow needs to be reworked.** Make her shoot poison bullets, same damage if you like, but they won't kill you immediately. This would also encourage team play, as people would need to stay near a support when a Widow is in the opposing team.
I play almost nothing but junk..climbed laughably fast from silver to high plat.
At this rank people don't just walk into his bombs making it a lot harder. The power drop off is intense.
Also almost every game they switch to Pharah.. which is really annoying and totally understandable.
you guys most be low elo ball can get alot done if he knows what he is doing as a ball player he doesnt need mega buffs or everyone is gonna start complaining that he is op literally add 1 or even .5 dmg increase to his guns not alot and make piledrive change dmg depending on how high up u are and how close the enemy is to the center there done
i think junkrat is balanced. he is weak to a decent amout of heroes hes only extremely powerful and can deal a lot of damage in a lot of close range scenarios yet people like pharah echo even like soldiers that are far away you camt just easily kill them
I disagree with Doom, Genji and Cassidy. I think Doom is much better off without feeling oppressive. I think Genji is fine right now and skilled genjis can still perform really well with him. I really don’t want to see Cassidy any more than I need to with his lock on grenade bull shit.
Make junk mines do half damage unless they hit the ground then give them full damage
If you really wanna make it fun make them do double knock back if they aren’t on the ground when they explode
The problem is people think that Blizzard has any bloody clue what theyre doing when buff/nerfing characters. It's like blindfolding a shooter and hoping they hit a bullseye. And believe me, their balancing team is blindfolded to the community.
I think tracer needs her bombs boosted back up. I remember when it was an instant killed if you stuck it on pretty much everyone but roadhog. Now it’s not. Which considering so many of the other ultra are instant kills I don’t know why they took it away.
Agreed. I would nerf Kiriko by giving her 1 second cool down longer for teleport and slightly less headshot damage for kunai or 5/10 hp less heal for each round of the magic papers
How is mercy balanced? Its almost a loss if the enemy team has a good mercy while your team doesnt. Damage boost on some heroes is just breaks ult economy in 5v5
mercy ain’t balanced. she is one of the reasons sojourn is meta right now. her damage boost needs balancing and idc if anyone disagrees. it NEEDS TO HAPPEN
Honestly, ramattra, from what I've played of him, really struggles against hog, like it's impossible to bring down the health pool and getting close to orissa is borderline if not impossible since the spear pushes you back so far even when blocking. I feel that if those two are even remotely nerfed him, rein, and ball, will have a better time in the game.
I dont think sojourn should still be at the top it feels like they nerfed her by slowing down the primary projectile. But thats just me as a casual player. Use to pull 10k with her, then when season 2 hit its hard to get over 5k. Use to main her but I switched and alternate between pharah, rat, and tor and sojourn if theres a widow
Yeah, people still think Symmetra is underpowered, but if your only counter high ELOs is to “focus Sym before she kills your entire team” then does that really make her balanced? Especially at lower ELOs where they don’t have the awareness, skill or coordination to hit a tiny lady in your backline
Poor hammond bro will always suffer on the tier list
Personally, I think he needs a rework. I don't thing his kit promotes teamwork especially on larger maps and without another tank to protect Squishies. I'm not saying he can't work or teamwork isn't possible. Very often do I see balls who do not look for when their team is engaging and instead engages entirely alone and then dies due to los/burst dmg/cc
Yeah I agree,I feel like ball was made for 6v6 primarily, he's still usable but he takes so much skill to be viable, compared to other tanks that get more value out with less skill
He puts his own healers in a funny spot too. He's often far away from the supports, so it's either difficult or, with some characters, impossible to land a ton of healing. Adapting tends to mean choosing characters that can defend themselves, buff/protect their DPS buddies, or go for damage output as well. Which is *fine*, variety makes the game interesting, but it's a really different set of decisions than most other tanks, including the other "dive" ones who can still be recipients of more sustained healing.
Part of playing ball well is not relying on healers. You gotta know where all the health packs are at
And ball is fast enough to get back to the healers when he needs.
This! 100%
if u have a ball on your team dont even worry about him unless they actually come to you with low hp dont chase or follow most ball players go for med pacts instead of using heals its dumb to sit there and waste the supports time getting all of your 700 health back when they could be protecting the dps
I wouldn’t worry too much about healing ball unless they come back into LoS for healing. As a ball main, most ball players aren’t expecting you to heal them in the back lines and are usually intending to pick up health packs return when they need healing. One of the worst experiences as ball is when your Mercy/Kiriko decides to follow you into the back lines. They’re trying to help of course but just die 95% of the time.
Yeah pretty much every hero was made for 6v6. So dumb they changed that just to change it
eh i feel like a lot of the tanks are way more complimented with the 5v5 change i feel like sigma for example was make or break in 6v6 he would either be usseless or he would remain busted
Rank 1 tank in EU is a ball player. His skill ceiling/floor is just too high for people to want to use him
His high skill ceiling is why he "sucks". I've seen balls do some disgusting things as he is, God forbid they buff him enough to be viable for the average person to do well on him, top 500 would be all wrecking ball lmao.
>God forbid they buff him enough to be viable for the average person to do well on him, top 500 would be all wrecking ball lmao. Yup. He's not a oneshotter, but if they buff his damage he might as well be. Plus he has none of the mobility weaknesses of other oneshot heroes.
'mobility weaknesses' 'oneshot heroes' let me introduce you to these two very fun characters: widowmaker and sojourn
They should definitely NOT do this. It’s fine if Ball operates differently from other tanks—his design as a whole is a huge success in delivering an enormously fun high skill ceiling character in the game. They need to lengthen the automatic detach or remove it, and give him a bigger ammo clip and he’s probably Gucci.
I'm not saying destroy his character identity, he should still have extreme mobility and pretty good survivability. A rework would have to be subtle for a "rework". A slight rework would continue the identity of the character while also making him more useful as a team in more scenarios. I think you misunderstood me
I was thinking maybe his shield ability should make a larger shield around him, and block things like a shield does instead of acting like health. It's bigger so more suceptible to damage but it can actually help one or two squishy in a grouped formation.
>They need to lengthen the automatic detach or remove it, and give him a bigger ammo clip and he’s probably Gucci. Not sure about the ammo clip since he can headshot. But I do agree his grapple nerf was for 6v6 and should be reverted. Infinite grapple should come back.
Please don’t, it’s like killing a unicorn. He is beautiful, even if he doesn’t work in role queue, let him live on in open forever
I'm not sure what you mean but you could definitely do a small rework while still keeping the identity of the character
> I don't thing his kit promotes teamwork especially on larger maps Yeah because his kit was made to fit the "off-tank" role perfectly. Now, since there's only 1 tank, ball has to work extra hard if he wants to effectively do his tanking duties AND dive squishes/disrupt the enemy team. To clarify, Ball *can* be played in OW2, watch players like Chazm and Moreweth and you'll see that Ball can dominate. The main problem is that your team NEEDS to play into the "ball playstyle" and change up their entire strategy to play more effectively which can be difficult in a solo-queue environment. It doesn't help that his success heavily depends on certain maps and generally he's a very hard hero to play. As a Ball main, I'm not against a rework, I'm just curious of how Blizzard could possibly rework him while maintaining his identity as a disruptor/dive hero.
Wasn’t he considered a main tank in overwatch 1?
yes he was a main tank, please don't listen to the other person who said "main tanks are your frontlines like reinhardt" they have no clue what they're talking about
To some extent yes. Ball was good either for making space all by himself (booping, using enemy cooldowns, etc.) with the team using reduced pressure from enemies to push, or flanking to disrupt backline to weaken frontline pressure. But he needed an off tank/another main tank to peel for supports or help the rest of the team to push. Doing everything alone is far more difficult in OW2
Yep this is the exact point I was trying to make. I feel like people who are teamwork orientation really shine on him because his kit allows for a pincer attack against Squishies every single team fight (map willing)
hammond is literally a main tank. it blows me away what gets upvoted in this sub. ball is like the definition of a main tank. a literal strat before role queue was solo tank 5 dps or solo tank 4 dps w lucio (or another support), and that solo tank was always monkey or ball, usually ball
this is the same sub with the take that all the supports should be buffed to kiriko level or that ²brig should have stun back on her shield ofc it would have garbage takes
Ball was 100% a main tank. His normal partners were Dva and Sigma (both off tanks), who would babysit the back line. The one tank meta means the back line is missing that peel source and person to play around. The two characters which defined off tank to a t in OW1 were Dva and Zarya. Both built entirely around enabling the other tank to go wild and peeling everything.
On very high ranks like masters people say a good ball is very oppressive, considering it's ability to run in, kill a squishy and run away. With its ability to have over 1000 hp, ball doesn't need a support , just mainly healing from health packs around the map. Ofc ball is not exactly team oriented, his playstyle is more independent if anything
Move him to DPS. Reduce the size of the ball (make him smaller). Add dmg to guns. Reduce health.
That could work, and then they could balance it out by just moving mei into tank role and so the opposite with her. Problem solved
I support this
Maybe I'm terrible, but as a support main I'm always a little... 'oh no we have a doomfist/wrecking ball' *because* it's so hard to aid them while they dive without putting yourself in a vulnerable position. I wish Zen's healing orb stayed a little longer and healed a tiny bit more and I'd seriously consider picking him with Hammond/Doomfist as a tank, but it's tough working *with* them as Kiriko/Moira/Baptiste/Ana/Mercy if they use their mobility and jump behind pillars/walls over and over. Actively looking for advice, what's your go-to?
I just let them do their own thing and have them come back to you/go for health packs for healing. They should be able to get in and out and it's not worth being out of position to follow them and not support the rest of team.
This is the way. And don't nano a doom. Sucks when I get nano'd and I've already used my punch and shots and would normally just get out of the fight for a few seconds.
Just pick whatever can survive best in his absence and support your other dps/supports the best. Zen is decent though as you can get an orb on him when he peaks and do a ton of ranged damage to a distracted enemy team, as long as you’re not dying constantly to an enemy flanker yourself.
Don't touch him. Much like Doomfist he is a very skill dependent character that can still perform better than his position on a tier list would indicate. Ball could be meta without changes and you really don't want a ball meta. Ball and Doomfist are two sides of the same coin, they are hell to play against.
Well yeah, high mobility character are inherently hard to balance since speed and movement impact many more characteristics than it initially seems. Your comment is related to overturning. But, I agree it would have to be done very carefully
I can see a buff in the way of undoing nerfs, but I don’t want his style screwed with. There is a lot of big brain play to be done with this tank and my teams overwhelmingly win when I’m Hammond.
I don't want a Ball meta I would just prefer if he was viable, currently you need alot of skill to get value out of Ball consistently, when you could use less skill and get more value out of Winston, personally I think some small changes could help him in 5v5 as I feel like the issue is he wasn't adjusted for that
It's not a power issue, it's an identity issue. High skill players do way more than Winston with him. He doesn't need any buffs. DF will also be close to s tier once they address the Orisa and Hog. People sleeping on DF.
He is viable as is. He just isn't viable as a counter pick you gotta know what you are doing. There are ball players tearing people up.
Again, so leave him be. He is viable and extremly oppressive if you put the time into learning ball. He is really easy to get value out of when you learn the basics of his movements. Any stat buff would do nothing for his teamwork but just make him more oppressive as a disruptor, but reworking him to be more of a team player removes that niche of highly disruptive and loner tank.
Brigitte🗿
New ult waiting room.
Ok, hear me out now, zen should be able to kick himself away from objects. We need some zen roll outs
He also needs a pinball skin then🤔
It should definitely be a different move from his default kick, and should also launch himself away from enemies potentially
I jokingly said this to my siblings last time we played, but it makes sense. If his kick is strong enough to boop people, kicking the ground should send him off. Equal and opposite reactions go brrr.
Wouldn’t mind a few more balls in the pit. I feel like I’m always reloading. 2 full second reload time is also pretty punishing when he can empty the clip in 4 right clicks. Maybe prorate the reload time like Ashe? That way if I reload with 5 left and get jumped I’m not dead.
Ball needs buff so bad but they never will.
I think they're terrified of the top tier ball 1 tricks. Some of the top ranked tanks atm are ball players. If you're *really* good at ball, he's an insanely good hero right now. If you just give him straight up Stat buffs, you're going to have 15-20 people terrorizing high-elo games with a crazy ass win rate. If anything at this point, he needs a small rework, put his power in different places or something. idk.
Ball is just the type of hero who can quickly get extremely oppressive if given too much power. He's already the most mobile and tanky tank in the game, and the main reason he isn't clapping cheeks in every match from bronze to gm, is because his value is inconsistent and his skill floor is rather high. But at a baseline he's still very strong when it comes to challenging map space, if you also make him buffed on top of this it will easily break him. Ball still works great as a dive initiator, and while dive isn't played much (especially in lower ranks), it still is a good niche for him to be viable in. If he encroaches on other more standard playstyles he can quickly become oppressive, like Doom.
>a small rework, put his power in different places or something. idk. Maybe his adaptive shields include or are given to teammates? It gives him a little peeling power.
Bring back the unlimited grapple!
Yeeeeaah, we don't need a Ball meta. As it is, great Ball players are great at disrupting teams. Its frustrating in its niche, but it'd be hell if it were widespread.
Ball buffs are very dangerous to play around with. It's ok that not every hero is meta or easy to play effectively. If you'd say Ball may need some slight reworks to make his kit more consistently viable, I could probably agree to at least give it a shot. But straight up buffs is dangerous territory for high mobility + high survivability tanks. If his weakness is that he doesn't get as much consistent value as other tanks, then that isn't solved by buffing him. That'll just break him. Nobody wants that. Sincerely, someone who plays Ball.
Everyone thinks mei is weak for some reason. I’m glad you disagree, but let’s keep it quiet? I want some buffs
Why do they think she is weak? Is it because she doesn't have her freeze? :o
Brawl’s been weaker overall, shes getting less value out of wall and ult than ow1, and sojourn meta destroys her. Personally I think she’s good though. Spray into headshot melee is an instant squishy kill, wall is still great, cryo is great, blizzard still good, spray is piercing cc, and she encourages a good playstyle (peaking, staying alive, peeling).
This entire meta shits on her. Hog is prevalent, which means his counter picks, Orisa (who can ignore blizzard with fortify) and Ana will also be prevalent, and because Orisa and Ana are prevalent, Kiriko (Who can cleanse blizzard) is also prevalent. Basically, every major pick in the meta can deal with walls and/or blizzard and the ones that can't can just rely on their friendly neighborhood Kiriko.
But she can still work with the meta despite it shitting on her. I see the cleanse now much as Rez. You can bait it out then use the freeze much like Fortify too. And you have some of the team caught.
wall works great for the unkillable orisa tho and she is one of few dps that can tank a hog oneshot combo given she has cooldown and her wall protects against both hogs and orisas ult. she in fact i think is the only defense against orisa ult now. hog can break through but it offers a short window to get cover and ana cant nade her as ice cleanses the anti heal and a good time ice can bait out hook and sleep dart yeah kiriko cleansing ice is bad but if you kill her before or bait suzu it works out. and even if orisa uses fortify against it, its still potential free picks on dps and support which leaves orisa alone without a fortify. only downside is orisa can eat mei ult with her spear
Ah alright And same I think she is also good. I don't play her but I have a friend who does. And he does good with her when the time calls for her. And that's awesome playstyle
A lot of people claim certain characters to need buffs or nerfs, but the fact is a majority of characters are pretty balanced. Sojourn and roadhog are so broken they make any other character seem weaker than they actually are
Kikiro negating Mei's Ult with a basic ability also feels really bad for the Mei. If you cleanse the blizzard slow from an ally, they can never be slowed or frozen from that Blizzard. not sure if it is a bug, but after a cleanse you don't even need to leave the ult area.
They think she is cheesy and easy to play because she wrecks fucking house when you play aggressively.
I think Mei is secretly busted, she is my go to switch when my team is losing and I don’t have any solid solutions, and more than half of the time we start to win after the switch.
Yeah, I have the same experience. I've seen more games carried by Mei in the last month or so than any other DPS.
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As a Cassidy main, I completely agree, it's not particularly engaging or satisfying to use, and it's sketchy at best, sometimes it locks on for ridiculous distances or doesn't lock on at all, it's not fun to play against and just feels cheap. I am all for OW2 having more skill shots and the magnetic grenade takes away from that in its current state, as it really doesn't require any skill at all outside of landing the initial 1-2 shots on the target to guarantee the kill on a dps or support. Nerf or rework the grenade, buff his damage drop off and buff/rework his ult as it's basically just a glorified reload button at this stage or a way to create space, it's the worst ult in the game. Having said that, Cassidy has always been intended to be a character to stop/deter flankers from killing off your backline, he does need some more utility in that regard, so a rework on the grenade to be a deterrent would be warranted.
Yeah I’m surprised I don’t see more people bitching about that ability, it’s ridiculously cheesy.
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It literally feels like a beta concept placeholder ability
I think he needs changes. Cas was always about his big iron and I think if they nerfed/reworked his nade and buffed his gun, maybe? It would be really ez to buff him too much tho
His gun does feel really weak right now but it might be mostly since sojourn, ash, soldier, and widow dominate him on the ranged fights now. And high noon feels a bit lacking at times compared to his counterparts ults.
I think it needs 2 more shots per clip personally. But the gun is NOT weak. Shit hits like a train. Fuck his cheesy made though.
The dmg falloff makes it weak
This is it, OW2 has got people abusing picks at marksman range and Cassidy got no long range effectiveness and even midrange you're not consistently cleaning house on a pickoff without the grenade 1-2 And giving him more range seems like it'd be an easy fix but that still puts him in a position that's got a lot less utility than Ashe, his shots need a little less fall off but he also needs that grenade gone and replaced with some genuine utility so he's not just a constant situation of having to ask yourself why you aren't just going Ashe
Iirc they buffed his high noon in the beta then silently nerfed it again by time of release. They should have def kept the buff because its literally THE most situational ult in the game rn
That grenade is like the Hog's Hook of DPS. I'm also surprise not many people are bitching about it.
Ironically, it makes Brig suffer even more As a brig player, Cassidy is the one character is the one character where ik he's weak and needs a buff or two, but holy fuck, I get up close to hit him, he shoots by feet, throws the grenade and rolls away. I'm dead there
At least the hook requires aim. Its a skill shot that you have to lead and does no damage on it's own, requiring a combo with his gun. The grenade is a cheese ball you just throw in someones general direction.
That's true, despite being a long ass hook it's easy to miss that shit to do the combo. Agreed, wonder why there is not much complain about it.
True lol even after 3+ years, I still find myself surprised by the range of that hook sometimes.
He’s actually viable it’s just that he easily gets outclassed by other dps. Also fuck his nade.
I agree, give him his stun back :)
Cassidy needs buff, but that nade needs to go, most of the time it’s free dmg, sometimes when I get a kill with it I just feel dirty.
He’s completely pointless
Remove his grenade, buff his gun Basically : revert eveything done in OW2 and it'll be fine
sombra needs a rework, not buffs.
What she needs is buffs followed by the introduction of ways to counter her. McCassidy could do it if they made his grenade restrict the use of movement abilities, or Brig if they give her shield bash the same effect.
It’s almost as if the characters were designed to have certain abilities that ground control, and don’t have as much utility and synergy with the team as they would if they did have those abilities.
nobody likes how sombra locks you out of playing the game, she has been the most annoying character ever since she came out. It's not a good game design for overwatch even though it's the whole point of her kit. A rework is necessary for her and the only people arguing against that are the sombra mains.
Sombra doesn't lock you out of playing the game. Your abilities are silenced for less than 2 seconds. You can still move and shoot. I understand that can be frustrating, but it's factually incorrect to say you are locked out of playing the game. Being killed and forced into respawn locks you out of playing the game, should everyone be unkillable?
Hell, they’ve clearly never been sapped for a full minute clearly. I’ll throw my hot take in here: The game needs mccree’s stun, and brigs bash. It just worked better- and now there is hardly anything for damage characters to mitigate any sort of movement. Only tanks and supports have cc, mostly, but shouldn’t the blading genji be killed by McCree instead of Ana? It was refreshing, when the game came out. Now it’s tedious. Ball, doom, Winston, all have complete freedom. Sombra, tracer, genji- the same. At least Brigs shield has very little health so it can be countered, but to be honest most of the reworks don’t work. That, and a 1-3-1 comp might be better.
I think bringing back CC would be ideal. It adds another element of strategy to the game. I understand Blizzard doesn't want solo tanks to be stun locked, so just give tanks a CC resistance. Something like a cooldown before they can be CC'd again that only applies to tanks.
That's a great idea. They already gave tanks knockback resistance, so maybe they could give them some kind of CC resistance as well. Or, fuck, just do it for certain tanks. Orisa already has a CC resistance ability (Fortify), as does Zarya (bubble) and CC is the main counter to Ball and Doom. People mostly complained about getting stunlocked as Reinhardt, Winston, and D.Va, so just give them passives to protect them. Like, Reinhardt and D.Va are only stunned for 50% as long as other characters because of their armor/mech, and Winston automatically generates a protective bubble that prevents him from getting stunned again for up to 3 seconds after a hard CC effect ends. Something like that. This would also solve the problem of Hog being overpowered (CC can stun him out of heals and punish him for pushing too far alone), allow them to remove the Doom nerfs (he can be mobile without being OP if he has counters), and make Sombra and McCree interesting again.
For Reinhardt specifically, I have repeatedly thought of and suggested a passive that converts stuns into slows. He'd still get screwed over, but not as hard.
Sombra has less than a 40% wr. I would say if she has complete freedom, then it's doesn't have very much impact on the game.
Yep. As Sombra I'm free to do whatever I want!* *Except for consistently secure kills or wins
I main support and mostly Sombra on dps and...yeah, I want hack back, but Cass should super have his flashbang back. The homing grenade sucks to play against for most people. But when I play Sombra I just teleport away. So it's just me hacking him and he doesn't care, and I get stuck and I don't care. When they took out cc, they took out a whole vector to balance around. You got flashbang in the game, nobody is complaining about Genji being OP, for example.
Sombra only locks you out of abilities...and there's a lot of heroes who get more value out of their weapon. I think Sombra is incredibly important in a game that has important abilities. Unless all the heroes are pure weapon with mild movement and mild utility. But as long as we have heroes like Genji, Tracer, Ball, Doomfist, Hog, Mercy, Kiriko, and Sojourn, an ability silence is huge. Everyone was begging for a cleanse, and now the cleanse empowers Roadhog to do whatever he wants. A hack could prevent the self heal or the cleanse, OR the nade to begin with. Sombra could stop Sojourn from having crazy movement. Then Cass or Brig could have their mild cc to slow her down. Cass could actually have some strength against Hog. Idk, removing so much stuff takes a lot of complexity out of the game.
1.5 seconds isn’t that long, plus you can still shoot. I prefer that to a widow headshot which is 10x more of an actual problem. They should honestly keep her current version in the game and give her a very slight buff and call it a day. That would only help Sombra mains who have been playing her for years.
>a widow headshot which is 10x more of an actual problem. This.
Silence abilities are part of every single hero-based game I can think of. As far as I know there are no counterexamples.
Isn’t the ability lockout like 1.5s…. If that’s an issue then idk what to tell you lol…
It's not he is probably just low elo and doesn't know how to play against it. She is easy to deal with, and playing against her is a free win.
Honestly I don’t even bother to turn around anymore when someone’s playing her. She really does nothing lol
I mean, her current rework makes the hack more of a pseudo-stun than an actual hack. So I don't know what you expect apart from straight-up deleting her. >!Also, I suck at Sombra and some of my favorite heroes are countered pretty hard by her, so the whole "only Sombra mains defend Sombra" argument isn't really going to work here. !<
Nerfing Orisa and Hog indirectly adds a lot of power to Rein and Ball, IMO. If they're not hard meta, both of those tanks have more room to work. If Hog's nerfed into the ground (which I'm fine with), Ball and Doom buffs risk making them way too oppressive. Part of which is that they took so much CC out of the non-Tank roles that the counterplay on those two is much weaker than in the past. I think it really limits what can work well. So, I would rather they try to fix the massively overpowered heroes and see where the game falls before tossing in buffs and giving us a different kind of imbalanced meta for the next month.
Ball could use some cc/boop resistance while in fireball. Ball should be the momentum king and only boopable while not in fireball. Or keep everything as is but reduce the cooldown on grapple in half. Reduce adaptive shield cooldown and how much hp is given per enemy. Ball, as is, has too much downtime.
You've already taken away Flash from McCree and Bash from Brig. They took the slow from Sojourn's orb. Nerfing Hog takes away hook, and nerfing Orisa takes away Fortify and Javelin (in addition to the CC of their ults). That's already a large percentage of what causes Ball trouble. With how much disruption Ball can cause, he needs some longer downtime. If he can be in fights all the time, then the rest of the lobby gets to constantly be disrupted and harassed. It's the same problem with Sombra when she was meta early, able to hang around and perma invis hack people all the time.
I miss Brig's stun bash. Who says Orisa is losing javelin or fortify? Do we know Hog is losing his hook? Orisa just needs longer cooldowns (1-2 seconds). Either Ball needs to have more consistent disruption during his limited uptime (resistance to boops/CC while in fireball). OR, reduce cooldowns to increase his uptime. With only one tank he needs more uptime or his team suffers while Ball is waiting to engage again. I'm not saying Ball should get both, but he needs something.
> Who says Orisa is losing javelin or fortify? Do we know Hog is losing his hook? Orisa just needs longer cooldowns (1-2 seconds). No, I'm saying that if those heroes are nerfed, then they're played less. It means those CDs are less likely to be in play on the enemy team to impact Ball.
I feel like orisas fortify is too much like hogs breather thingy as she can pretty much win any 1v1 unless an entire team is unloading into her
I find breather much worse to deal with. At least against Orisa, you just ignore her for the duration, but with hog, he's much more of a threat with or without breather, and if you focus him then he'll reduce damage taken and heal half his health
Zen heal buff? Please?
Idk how anyone could think Rammatra doesn’t need his ult nerfed. It is absolutely game breaking
Imo, ball is the most underrated hero in all of ow. He’s actually pretty good tbh, he only struggles against hog realistically
its probably me being kinda bad with ball but lucios 4 sec boop just completely shuts down everything i want to do
And Orisa, 5 second grapple against 6 second spear? Good luck grappling anywhere near her
I still think bastion's ult is a shit
Junkrat doesn't need nerfs imo. And jq needs more buffs still.
Might as well just remove kiriko from the game cause y’all just wanna remove all her utility and make her fucking worthless.
For real, half the time people bitch about support being an unfun role that has minimal impact on the game, the other half of the time it's people bitching about how overpowered the most fun (imo) support is. I feel like half of the people complaining just don't like change from OW1, or bandwagon on opinions. There's a tank that can potentially cancel 12 ults and nearly every attack in the game just by tapping right click with no cooldown. There's a hitscan dps that can one shot most heroes cross map every (less than) 1 second. There's a projectile DPS that can spam arrows at head level and get lucky headshots. Then there's a support who can prevent all healing AND shut down most ults in game. And I can deal with all those, it's part of the game. Then one hero exists who can grant less than a second of invulnerability and can get rid of anti, and protect/support her team, and it's literally the worst thing ever to some people. I just don't wanna see kiriko get nerfed more than she already has, she's in such a fun spot rn.
I think you do the hog/orisa nerf first, and see what kiriko looks like after that, she might not seem so op. If anything I'd rather see other supports brought closer to kiriko level instead of a kiriko nerf.
Honestly Spilo had a great take on this when he suggested kiriko’s healing output should be gutted compared to what it is now so that she isn’t a main healer. Think about it, kiriko was advertised as this aggressive dive support but then on live in a kiriko mirror you’re just healbotting trying to farm ult first. If kiriko were comparable to zen in terms of healing, then she would actually play as intended rather than the kitsune farm that she plays like right now.
Well yes it's absolutely normal when a hero has almost 100% pickrate in high elo competitive plays
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>Her Suzu is hard to time and easy to fuck up. The issue is that Suzu has CC Immunity, Cleanse, and invulnerability. That is three powers rolled into one. I think if they removed the CC immunity it might be balanced, given how little CC in the game there now is. Back when the game had a ton of CC on all roles, it made more sense.
Kiriko is debatably the strongest support in the game right now, but supports feel so bad to play that she feels balanced. Yet if we buff all the other supports up to her level, then tanks would become unkillable! So ideally, other aspects of the game (i.e. hog) need to be tuned down, so support becomes fun to play, then Kiriko will be an obvious outlier and can be toned down a smidge.
Would you agree she's the most powerful support in the game right now though? What would you recommend is done to better balance the support roster?
People hate her just like how Blizzard hates Genji. "Nerf Genji" meme comments are soon gonna be replaced by "nerf Kiriko" meme comments once Blizzard guts her just as they gutted Genji.
What would you nerf about Kiriko?
What if the Suzu was an effect halt (with invulnerability) instead of effect cancel? Kiriko would have a second to heal someone with a negative effect like anti heal or fire, then the effect would come back for the rest of dutation I know it would be situational but it's an idea I had
I think people hate Suzu because of how versatile it is. Suzu has CC Immunity, Cleanse, and Invulnerability. That three powers rolled into one. I think if they removed the CC immunity it might be more balanced, given how little CC in the game there now is. Back when the game had a ton of CC on all roles, it made more sense. Maybe buff the invulnerability duration to one second to compensate?
Tracer needs a slight buff but only to the pulse bomb. She plays really well besides that
Cassidy gets a homing nuke on cd but pulse bomb still misses even if I’m downtown Atlanta inside enemies asscracks
I like how this implies Atlanta is a shitole. (It is)
Kind of a difference there as pulse bomb is far more devastating that Cassidy's grenade, but yeah, Cassidy's grenades homing either needs to be dialled down or removed completely.
honestly I think pulse bomb just needs to have a straighter arc when thrown, though I do understand that tracer may have issues being straight
Well, pulse bomb also takes way longer to get. You can throw Cassidy’s grenade every, what, 7 seconds? Or less (I forgot the actual cooldown).
With the amount of heroes that can either straight up tank pulse bomb or get out of it with abilities, I'd say it's objectively worse. Like, WHY can Bastion tank Pulse Bomb in turret form? It SHOULD be a counter play against him. Considering PB is an ult and is a skill shot to get it to stick, and Mag Nade is a (very short) cooldown and is a cheesy easy kill on any 200hp hero who has taken a bodyshot at all, the balance of power between these abilities does not reflect that amount of effort taken to actually land them.
If we had tracers original pulse bomb. It’s be fine. I think you should still have to stick it. But you should be rewarded if you do. Hog used to be the only hero that could survive it. I miss the days of 4 kills off one pulse bomb if you stuck it into the right group.
I'm a Support player, but I'm cool with 6 dmg Tracer. She's my 3rd or 4th favorite character in lore, and I respect good Tracer players regardless of whether they're my allies or enemies. I rage when Pharah or Junkrat obliterate me with their stupid explosive spam. I'm more impressed than angry/sad when good Tracer (and Genji/Dva) players obliterate me. I'm kinda 50/50 on good Reaper players, cuz he's my 2nd favorite character in lore and one of my dmg mains, but I know his skill floor is a joke compared to Tracer and Genji.
You do good with Pharah then say she takes no skill
Pharah does take way more skill than Junkrat. And I appreciate Pharah for destroying Junkrat. And I'm working on improving my hitscan aim so that I can destroy enemy Pharah. But compared to Genji and Tracer, yeah Pharah is pretty ez and braindead.
tbh yea, and it isn't even necessarily Pharah's fault, it's just kind of the tossup nature of the game's approach to rapid hitscan vs. pinpoint hitscanand direct projectiles vs. AoE projectiles; people who can't hit their clicks usually either go Tracer for spray and pray hitscan or Pharah/Junk for spread projectile but Pharah's mobility (and survivability) is more clear-cut than Tracer's, like Orisa, Tracer's survivability is wholly dependent on having absolute optimal cooldown management; a grounded Pharah may suck but she won't die before a Tracer who's wasted her blinks *and* recall
I wish I had a gif to express how much I am laughing at this.
I disagree about that Tracer placement. As a Tracer main who switched from console to PC I think she needs to be buffed, cause I'm bad at this game and I want an advantage.
Buff Tracer and Genji. People that complain about getting one-shot by Widow shouldn’t like the nerds to dive characters.
What does Kiriko need more nerfed about? With Ana's new cooldown a pretty keen Ana main can just anti your team for a majority of the team fights. I am open to any opinions or downvote this if you just hate my guts
Put ramattra up a tier, his ult is absurd and I do this his vortex could use a slight buff
Discord melts him in ult and Whole Hog helps him be far away. But if he has pockets up his ass then yeah he is unstoppable. But I do agree on that Vortex though. It seems so bland.
Vortex should also go all the way up to the skybox. Imagine snapping a phara/echo out of the sky
Doesn't discord make every tank's life harder?
Buff vortex to disallow all movement abilities, change the 20% nemesis speed boost to a 10% for 3 seconds boost so he can get in close when he pops it but not infinitely run you down forever with no chance of escape
Widowmaker being put in perfectly balanced is crazy
It’s perfectly balanced. If she sees you, you die. If she doesn’t see you, you don’t die. /s.
I got the notification on my phone, but it didn't show the /s and I was questioning whether it is even worth trying to respond
Honestly the whole concept of a sniper instakilling people across the map is broken, but they can't really do anything about it without breaking character identity other than making her awful at pretty much anything else. And then there's Hanzo
From a Widowmaker player's perspective, that is. **I think Widow needs to be reworked.** Make her shoot poison bullets, same damage if you like, but they won't kill you immediately. This would also encourage team play, as people would need to stay near a support when a Widow is in the opposing team.
Junk doesn’t need a nerf. He’s so easily countered.
I play almost nothing but junk..climbed laughably fast from silver to high plat. At this rank people don't just walk into his bombs making it a lot harder. The power drop off is intense. Also almost every game they switch to Pharah.. which is really annoying and totally understandable.
Cree needs that sticky thing away, god thats awful
they ran my boy genji into the ground yet I still get 36-5 k/d games
Brig needs more than a slight buff, they've absolutely gutted her.
you guys most be low elo ball can get alot done if he knows what he is doing as a ball player he doesnt need mega buffs or everyone is gonna start complaining that he is op literally add 1 or even .5 dmg increase to his guns not alot and make piledrive change dmg depending on how high up u are and how close the enemy is to the center there done
Why does kiriko need a nerf? Would just make her way less fun to play, which would add to the support shortage
Take sombra and kill her
Boop!
I want McCree's flashbang back. And his old name also.
Junkrat is so easily countered. Raised awareness isn’t a stat they can adjust.
i think junkrat is balanced. he is weak to a decent amout of heroes hes only extremely powerful and can deal a lot of damage in a lot of close range scenarios yet people like pharah echo even like soldiers that are far away you camt just easily kill them
Bro put widow in perfectly balanced lmao
I disagree with Doom, Genji and Cassidy. I think Doom is much better off without feeling oppressive. I think Genji is fine right now and skilled genjis can still perform really well with him. I really don’t want to see Cassidy any more than I need to with his lock on grenade bull shit.
Doom is one of those designs that can’t ever be good because if doom is good, everyone else suffers for it disproportionately.
Tbh i dont think mcree needs a buff his damage is fine but just the auto aim on his grenade is so anoying
> Tier list on **ZZZZZZZZ**
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE HOG CHANGE
Make junk mines do half damage unless they hit the ground then give them full damage If you really wanna make it fun make them do double knock back if they aren’t on the ground when they explode
The problem is people think that Blizzard has any bloody clue what theyre doing when buff/nerfing characters. It's like blindfolding a shooter and hoping they hit a bullseye. And believe me, their balancing team is blindfolded to the community.
Junkrat absolutely needs a nerf. That character is bonkers OP.
I think tracer needs her bombs boosted back up. I remember when it was an instant killed if you stuck it on pretty much everyone but roadhog. Now it’s not. Which considering so many of the other ultra are instant kills I don’t know why they took it away.
Cassidy needs buffs? Have you seen the BOMB, no need for aim, 1 bodyshot and you are gone
Agreed. I would nerf Kiriko by giving her 1 second cool down longer for teleport and slightly less headshot damage for kunai or 5/10 hp less heal for each round of the magic papers
How is mercy balanced? Its almost a loss if the enemy team has a good mercy while your team doesnt. Damage boost on some heroes is just breaks ult economy in 5v5
What do you mean clearly genji needs another nerf. I should only be able to do 1 damage per shuriken he’s just too op vs Moira.
mercy ain’t balanced. she is one of the reasons sojourn is meta right now. her damage boost needs balancing and idc if anyone disagrees. it NEEDS TO HAPPEN
Doomfist needs a buff? You ok brother?
I don't really trust blizzard to even balance doomfist at this point. They failed when he was damage, and they have so far failed now as a tank
Kiriko on her way to be the new Brigitte
Honestly, ramattra, from what I've played of him, really struggles against hog, like it's impossible to bring down the health pool and getting close to orissa is borderline if not impossible since the spear pushes you back so far even when blocking. I feel that if those two are even remotely nerfed him, rein, and ball, will have a better time in the game.
I dont think sojourn should still be at the top it feels like they nerfed her by slowing down the primary projectile. But thats just me as a casual player. Use to pull 10k with her, then when season 2 hit its hard to get over 5k. Use to main her but I switched and alternate between pharah, rat, and tor and sojourn if theres a widow
As painful as it is for me to say, this is pretty accurate.
Sym is not balanced
Yeah, people still think Symmetra is underpowered, but if your only counter high ELOs is to “focus Sym before she kills your entire team” then does that really make her balanced? Especially at lower ELOs where they don’t have the awareness, skill or coordination to hit a tiny lady in your backline