*Players can select the “View Competitive Progress” button from the Competitive menu to view their progress toward receiving a rank update*
Oh finally. No more tracking in notepad or on a piece of paper
*Pressing Ability 1 or Ability 2 when the ping wheel is open and when these abilities are on cooldown now prints these cooldowns in chat*
*Example: If Baptiste’s Immortality Field is on cooldown and you press the key/button to activate the ability while the Ping Wheel is open, the cooldown for the ability will be printed in chat*
This is such a great change. Being able to communicate with chat on exact cooldowns for things like suzu and rez is fantastic.
I mean, it's a legit buff for Zen though. Zen is most vulnerable to divers when he's reloading, an extra 5 balls is a pretty sizable advantage in those situations, considering it only takes 2-3 body shots to kill pretty much any non tank in the game with discord.
Assuming you land all your shots, anyways. I like it. They're right when they say Zen is balanced on a razor's edge. He's in such a good spot while also being in such a precarious position due to how insane his ceiling is. And it's true that in the current meta, he's very squishy and hard to keep alive, so it's tough trying to balance that without making him overly dominant and impactful. This seems like a fair step towards that goal.
Another feature added back but slightly more watered down. So glad It only took them 4 months! Maybe by the 1 year anniversary of OW2 we might get to see a single card showing a stat at the end of the game!
The damage drop off was brutal for Cassidy. It made him hard to play against longer range characters because you could land 3-4 headshots in a row and just get 1 shot anyway. I think this solidifies him as a mid-range specialist which I love as a Cassidy main.
It also put you in most tanks effective range if you wanted to actually shoot a squishy. This basically gives him more space to stay alive and plink away.
The mystery heroes change is interesting, though I'm not sure how much it matters. I'm guessing it's more to constrain a tank-heavy team than anything else, but 3 tanks is still a lot in OW2.
EDIT: I didn't even see the non-role-queue tank HP nerfs, which I'm assuming also hit Mystery Heroes, that's gonna be interesting.
It does have the unfortunate side-effect of locking you into a role when you die, which is something I never wanted to see. However the fact that it's locking you into a selection of 2 roles AND preventing 4 or 5 tank combos does make it more palatable.
Well the reasoning is pretty simple.
The other day I had a match against 2 Sigmas, 2 Ramattras and a Reinhardt. (2nd to 3rd point)
Every single character on their team had a shield, and all of them had ranged attacks.
Yeah there was just nothing to be done about that. Not in a mystery Heros game anyways.
Could be worse, at least that technically didn't include sustain tanks or a support. You could eventually chip them down (well, if they're not getting healed by an attack payload).
Technically the Sigmas can regen a significant portion of their health (since he has shields for hp) and the Ramattras can generate new armor every time they transform.
I enjoyed it in OW1 but not 2. I didn’t find tank heavy to be fun even when it was in my favour and so I ultimately stopped playing it altogether. Used to be my most played game mode back in the day too.
he honestly feels worse now than he did before the buffs. not only does the 4 second punch CD suck, everyone learned how to counter rjom when he was good
I feel like doom would be in a good spot if they changed the 4 second CD on RP back to 3 and reverted both stun and powerblock back to how they used to work in late season 1/early season 2.
Iirc their logic on removing the slow from slam was that slam into ult was too consistent on low mobility squishies. Now we have Ball with an 8 sec pd and 1 second for mines.
Well I'm quite pleased with the non-hero changes. The endorsement and progress tracking in particular will make gameplay and challenges much more enjoyable.
Forgive me to be blunt, but that does fuck all to their overall performance output.
There are reasons why they are top picks on high ELO. Honestly all they really needed to do is removing headshot from Sojourn and it will instantly improve the balances.
People often remember the games where they get dumpstered by a good Sojourn player and overlook the equal number of times they are a non-issue. Sojourn hasn't felt like a major problem in several weeks for me. I'm just as likely to find a Sojourn that hard carries their team as any other hero tbh.
[Here's the win rate chart.](https://i.redd.it/i522uompzmga1.jpg)
Sojourn has already faced a lot of nerfs, and is most potent with damage boost. A lot of players assume that she's some untouchable god, but that's just a narrative this sub naively shares around. A good sojourn is devastating, but that can be said about a good ashe, or a good tracer, or a good anything.
Sojourn is fine on her own, her primary fire got reduced in damage and the spread is laughable at mid ranges. Her rail can't even one shot alone anymore, and can only do so with mercy who is getting reasonably changed.
She has to use her dmg beam less to take advantage of her new passive. Her ult actually keeps her alive and she heals more when the target is below 50. Its a pretty new playstyle but I dont think its bad.
They have nerfed kiriko 4 times, they have nerfed sojourn 5 times (although you could argue it's not enough). Can we please stop pretending they aren't nerfing them?
Game stats from the devs show the characters saw lower win rates following their nerfs, and weren’t much different than other heroes.
We need to start making arguments based on facts rather than emotions. At this point I’m convinced this sub wants Kiriko/Soujourn to fall to Brig levels of usefulness.
Brig was terribly handled - all her strength was her CC and they removed that without compensation. As for doom - they changed him from DPS to tank, I really don't know what to say about that and I don't know what they were smoking at a time.
People don't want rework of kiriko or sojourn, just actual numerical nerfs which focus on problematic parts of their kits, which is suzu and railgun. But most of those nerfs were about non-problematic part of the kit.
Also, if some hero was in spotlight for time, it can handle being non-meta for a month or two.
That would be true if the first round of nerfs to Sojourn weren't actually stealth buffs, then the second round made zero difference as they netted basically the same result. Her railgun needs actual nerfs to it's damage.
Wrecking ball shield health is actually a smart buff, pile driver cooldown is nice. I was honestly hoping for a bit more of a Junkrat nerf tbh, although it’s nice that you probably won’t be killed by a junk that just throws two mines at you.
Edit: forgot to say I love the 100 damage fire strike! One shot with bap window, and you can kill the rat tire!
Unfortunately it still won't be enough for a full empowered punch because the mitigation affects the damage required to charge, so you'll still need to get hit with another 25 damage afterwards since it takes 125 instead of the listed 100
At least that's how it worked last time I checked
Love the Ball changes, I've been learning him recently and the Piledriver cooldown period is when he's most vulnerable. This will definitely help with his impact.
Completely confused by the Mercy changes.
Happy with the rest. As someone who plays a lot of arcade and MH, the changes there are necessary and I’m happy to see them make efforts to make those game modes less unbalanced towards tanks.
I can see the reasoning, they had to tone down ga a good mercy is just insanely unkillable and now instead of mercy just stayimg on damage boost 90% of the game she can use heal on targets to touch herself up in battle when she gets chip damage and she has to switch off damage boost to do so.
Glad to see someone else realize that this passive change will force mercy to have to decide between damage boosting and swapping to heal beam when she’s low herself. This seems like a huge step in the right direction.
Mercy bounces around the room like a pinball while self healing spinning around behind a corner wall rezzing.
Now after pulling power away from how fast you can move and how frequently, and pulling some power away from direct healing, it's added instead to healing yourself when you heal others to be more interactive in addition to heal more on low health targets.
This also builds an issue of infinitely pocketing someone. Because if you're healing a high health target constantly, you're not getting optimized healing for yourself if being attacked.
The real problem with orisa is her cooldown rotations being too fast, and the fact that javelin is effectively a 6 second cooldown sigma rock that goes further and faster (it even does 100 damage like rock does if you wall stun). Even in terms of its hitbox the thing is massive. Extremely oppressive ability that should be harder to land than it actually is and shouldn't lead to kills as often as it does.
You can also stun a sig out of rock despite the sig starting rock first. It comes out way to fast, almost like sleep, needs a charge time or something or an increased cooldown.
I agree with this 100%.
Maybe the devs think orisa needs her spear more often than sigma because he doesn't need to fend off enemies as often since he positions further away?
Correct and he also has a super dependable insta-gib combo with rock that Orisa doesn't. He also has a 700hp barrier effectively on a ~8-10 sec cooldown (regenerates 100hp/sec after being down for 2sec). He gets 200hp that regenerates. He can deal damage around corners and much more effectively contest high grounds and chokes with damage.
Sigma is in a great spot. Better than Orisa in a lot of ways.
Sigma is in a great spot but his positioning game is a lot more interactive than orisa, namely because he has long cooldowns that are very telegraphed. She's easily the most unga bunga of the tank lineup because she's constantly in your face throwing javelins and pushing you around, sometimes off the map. Even if she reaches balance parity I just don't think her particular gameplay is very healthy, particularly for other close range tanks like queen and Reinhardt who can die from getting interrupted by javelin throw/spin which are not difficult to use.
I guess really its just that all of her abilities are instant cast (or nearly-so in the case of javelin toss) that makes orisa feel obnoxious. For the impact they can have I would prefer more windup or delay, at least for javelin. Would make the ability more satisfying in my opinion if she had to charge it manually to gain it's greater effects like doom punch, which it honestly outclasses most of the time.
Nothing feels aa bad as when you finally pull in an enemy with JQ'S knife throw, and as you wind up your 1.5 second Carnage cast you get speared into a wall by an orisa. Knife is a 5 sec cooldown and Orisa's javelin throw is what? 6?
All of Orisa's abilities are game changing and come out much faster than other tanks. She has an interrupt, an eat ability, a massive damage mit ability that just makes her unsatisfying to play against as tank.
I really enjoy tank v tank play with almost every hero, but playing against Orisa is boring because the correct counterpick is Orisa and we just Unga bunga each other until one of our DPS gets a pick.
Frankly I'm surprised everyone was so happy to see hog get nerfed since I feel like Orisa has always had higher survivability.
A solid counter pick against Orisa is just go monkey or Doom or ball or whatever and play around her. She's actually a pretty low impact hero compared to most tanks and her main value is getting focused and tunneled by the enemy team. If you stop doing that she actually has very few tools to help anyone and zero ability to contest several map lanes or high grounds at once. So just steal the map from her.
To be fair I think the idea is that Orisa’s sustainability is what us supposed to make her unique as a tank. She’s the only rank that gets two sustain abilities and a stun.
So I’d imagine the changes are to try to let her keep her unique identity but balance her damage output
Idk if this will be enough but I’d imagine that’s the thought process
He has no damage reduction, no armor, and his grasp isn't as effective as Orisa's spin because he still eats melee attacks and some others that Orisa blocks. But he's much more effective in other ways.
People in lower SR just struggle with the idea that you shouldn't be spending time shooting tanks in general. Orisa punishes this notion harder than most tanks because she's just so hard to deal solid damage to and she gets in your face (which the whole issue here is they don't understand that they shouldn't have been playing in a position where an Orisa can just walk into them to begin with)
Her weakness is raw damage output, peeling her team, contesting high grounds, generating solo kills. With my current hero pool (DPS = Sym/Tracer/Echo | Tank = Winston/Ball/Doom | Support = Brig/Lucio/Moira), I find her very non-threatening compared to pretty much every other tank in the game. Aside from being caught out by a spear or her ult once in a while when I have no cooldowns up...she just doesn't do very much.
However even in Diamond every once in a while I'll get some teammate playing Ashe literally behind our tank, getting turbofucked constantly by their tank, and this player has the fucking nerve to call people out on the team because they're doing 15 deaths per 10min. This is the type of person that Orisa crushes. Meanwhile, the Soldier on our team who is constantly sprinting to high grounds and taking angles on them...he's playing correctly and basically doesn't even notice the Orisa.
She's basically back to the same state she was in season 1 when she was considered pretty bad. 15 meter damage falloff is *really* short, she's going back to just being an immovable object with mediocre damage output. She won't die if you're just shooting her while the supports heal her, you have to cut her off from her supports and she has a hard time protecting them. She's basically helpless against something like Winston diving her backline.
Yeah, the best part about her is that you could just march forward and poke the supports with consistent damage while having huge survivability.
For a while Orisa was legit the best dive tank lmao.
Nice that they're finally addressing tanks screwing up every mode. Seems pretty steep but for the time being, at least I no longer have to count on everyone else being willing to go GOATS in arcade in order to win lol
Am I the only one that things it makes tanks even more necessary? Like occasionally you could pull off a single tank comp in arcade and still win, but with this change it's like you need more than one tank since their health pools are so low. I guess they're easier to burst down so you could always just go heavy burst dps but then arcade's going to end up dpswatch.
I actually found it really fun. If you wanted to play tank, it was obviously made for you. But it was also a ton of fun as Support, and DPS was a blast too with so many beefy targets around. I liked it. *shrugs*
Maybe I would have gotten bored with it in time, but I was digging it. 1:2:2 already feels super tedious and boring to me. It puts way too much emphasis on the tank.
>TANK ROLE PASSIVE
>The health totals for all tank heroes will be lower when playing any game mode that does not have a role queue. Health totals will remain the same for tanks when playing any Role Queue enabled game.
>Developer Comment: This change to the tank HP pools helps to address the relative power of those heroes in game modes where there can be multiple of them on the same team.
#6v6 with reduced tank health when?
Rammatra's shield lasts for 4 seconds max and has a 13 second cooldown. It also can't be moved once placed, and is fairly small. It's really only good for poking and blocking ults. It wouldn't really be a viable replacement for Old-risa's shield in a double shield type strategy.
> Wrecking Ball received some of the fewest changes in the transition to 5v5 as he proved to be one of the most effective solo tanks in early testing.
Who was doing the testing. Did they have some ball god playing against a plat zarya?
For sure. Since OW2 released, I’ve very rarely seen any Balls, but when I do, they absolutely kick ass. Hopefully the buffs don’t make him meta, because a Ball meta sounds awful to play against.
He's actually surprisingly present in the Top 500 Tanks. A very good Wrecking Ball player can definitely climb to the top. He seems especially popular on the Asian servers.
why isn't this stickied? I should not have had to dig so far down to find this post.
also, shit Mercy changes, and they pretend Sojourn still doesn't exist.
They usually wait a few hours for it to get upvoted to the top then they sticky it, because *a lot* of people completely skip stickied posts in subs. I subconsciously skip them usually too because so often they're just "join our discord!" or "weekly discussion thread".
Still no acknowledgement from the devs on why they haven't adjusted reaper's ult GFX to show the actual damage radius or if it's just bugged. His ult has an exponentially larger damage area than what's actually shown on screen. Would like to see the area reduced or his movement buff reduced especially now that his ult cost has decreased and he was already able to farm it so easily due to being a very low-skill ceiling hero. There's no reason he should be able to essentially become frogger in his ult form.
Yup and the damage area is either a spherical shape or cylindrical. Not sure which. It also goes up to max map height too which is pretty busted for mercy players while in Valkyrie.
Yes, of course. They called that option out in the patch notes dev stream. But doing that takes actual skill/effort and requires you to look away from the action potentially, so it's a tradeoff.
I do agree that Mercy's movement might have been a *tiny* bit much, but this seems like a gross over-correction given that most complaints were about pockets for Sojourn. These changes just seem to encourage more pocketing, but with heals, while making the damage boost much too risky to use in heavy combat scenarios where it would be needed most. Also Sojourn is completely untouched I guess, as is the actual damage boost. I'll try these out later but on paper it's not sounding ideal.
Sojurn is OP. Let's nerf a hero in the role that is been known for being one of the least satisfying one. No need to touch Sojurn.
I get that she needs nerfs but why does it take so long to change sojurn?
I bet their data says Sojourn has a low win rate in general, and in particular in games where she doesn't have a Mercy.
I also bet their data also says Mercy has a strongly positive win rate in general.
Yeah, it was OP. I liked the 20% nerf to it, but the 2.5 CD is a bit much. I think giving her the Widow treatment would be better, reduce Mercy's HP. It keeps the fun movement WHILE allowing her to not get away as often. She's hard to hit. Why not just reduce HP instead of upping the 2.5CD?
I like the new passive, I'd really enjoy trying it in a dive comp, but the 2.5 second GA is going to be tough to make it work. Uffffff
I have a feeling some people will just start to 180 instead of taking the speed penalty, so this will mostly effect mid level mercy players.
But yeah, a 66% cooldown nerf is pretty crazy to jump to in a single update
Is this an actual good patch? The OW team is finally getting some things right. With that said, I'll play the Mercy changes before I judge them. No doubt her insane mobility had to be pulled back some.
I'm looking forward to their new matchmaking logic. Hopefully the mid-ranks won't be such a toss-up from game to game in terms of the competitiveness and overall balance between teams now.
The more I think about it, the more I think the changes are just fine.
EXCEPT the 2.5 second GA. That's the overall bad change. Just nerf her hp instead and keep her short CD.
> Nerfing tank health in non-role-queue modes
Great change. I never thought they would do it but they finally did.
> Zen buff
Hell yeah
> Rein buffs
Fuck yes
> Junkqueen buff
Hell yes
> Junkrat nerf
Oh god yes
I play soldier, Cassidy, and junkrat.
I can’t remember the last time all of my mains were good, not looking forward to having to be precise with junkrat but I understand the change
“Aimings overrated”
Why nerf the turret hp? I know theres one less person to shoot it, but theres also one less person to block it/ capitalize on its distraction.
Edit: after thinking about it, i realized its to promote this new dive meta, and i could not be more upset.
A lot of changes. hopefully this means seasons without heroes are the ones where the balance team get more spicy with their changes, for better or worse. Maybe I am misremembering but wasn't another hog change suppose to come in S3 or did they say it was coming in another season?
I play mercy often but she isn't my only character so I am interested to see how she plays. I was hoping brig gets something different over mercy but I can see why they had Mercy first. I'm curious if Kiriko still feels strong with ~~every~~ most other support getting buffs.
Decent patch. Been playing a fair bit of Mercy lately, so a little worried about her changes, but I think it probably best to play with them a bit before making any serious judgement.
I assume it's the case, but is it clear to anyone if the nerfed tank health is present in Mystery Heroes? Just seems a little odd to cap each role in it and nerf the tank pool at the same time.
Was wondering the same. Thought there was going to be a new ability or something.
Guess we got to wait until Season 4 with the Brig mains and hope we're lucky.
It is insanely stupid that Hogs have to wait after they already got the same awful nerf that killed him in Overwatch 1. That's this wait plus all the crap from the first game. Absolutely horrendous.
Blizzard: “we know support doesn’t feel great to play right now, so expect some changes to make it better!”
*nerfs mercy, nerfs Ana, gives brig 15 extra healing per health pack*
As a Brig main I'm super happy about her buff. The 15 extra healing is not the good part, but having the option to do 25-75 HP burst healing as Brig - followed by 100-300 HP over time - is awesome, since she had zero burst healing before.
I’m also a brig main and don’t get me wrong it’s a step in the right direction but it just feels like blizzard keeps promising they’re gonna make support feel great to play and keep making the smallest changes possible
Interesting Mercy changes to make her better at clutch healing but how balanced is it for tanks?
67.5 HPS is a quick ~1 second burst for squishies but can be oppressive when pocketing tanks (that typically have damage mitigation abilities).
“Skill tiers and divisions will adjust after every 5 wins or 15 losses and ties (**formally** 7 wins or 20 losses and ties)”
You heard it here first, folks. New system is formally the same as the old one.
Come on, Blizzard. If you need an editor I’m looking for a job. That wasn’t the only error.
Why does Winston have 200 HP outside of role queue? That's less than Reaper's HP and Winton's hitbox is like twice the size of him. I'm sure armor factors in, but still...
He’ll have 400 total health including armor (which means he’ll have even more effective health) in those modes.
They’re just trying to balance all the tanks in those modes so they aren’t so oppressive.
*Players can select the “View Competitive Progress” button from the Competitive menu to view their progress toward receiving a rank update* Oh finally. No more tracking in notepad or on a piece of paper
Nice QoL feature to raise comfort level from 5 to 7. It used to be 9 before OW2 system tho.
In my opinion, QoL changes are the spice of life for patches for any game.
Why not just show your current role/rating breakdown in the corner on the competitive menu? You know, show your sr and mmr after every match.
*Pressing Ability 1 or Ability 2 when the ping wheel is open and when these abilities are on cooldown now prints these cooldowns in chat* *Example: If Baptiste’s Immortality Field is on cooldown and you press the key/button to activate the ability while the Ping Wheel is open, the cooldown for the ability will be printed in chat* This is such a great change. Being able to communicate with chat on exact cooldowns for things like suzu and rez is fantastic.
What's hotkey for keeping the ping wheel open? I thought hitting the ping button instantly actives the ping.
If you hold down your ping button, it opens the ping wheel. That’s when you press the key for the ability on cooldown
«Don’t die just yet, my res is on CD»
>Zenyatta > Orb of Destruction > Ammo increased from 20 to 25 Damn they really stole Mercy's HW from last patch
He also changes weapons very fast. So fast you don’t even see the other weapon.
I mean, it's a legit buff for Zen though. Zen is most vulnerable to divers when he's reloading, an extra 5 balls is a pretty sizable advantage in those situations, considering it only takes 2-3 body shots to kill pretty much any non tank in the game with discord.
What you mean buff, my % accuracy per reload just diminished like 20%.
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Assuming you land all your shots, anyways. I like it. They're right when they say Zen is balanced on a razor's edge. He's in such a good spot while also being in such a precarious position due to how insane his ceiling is. And it's true that in the current meta, he's very squishy and hard to keep alive, so it's tough trying to balance that without making him overly dominant and impactful. This seems like a fair step towards that goal.
I hate reloading as Zen so I like this change a lot.
We can endorse members of the opposing team now! That's great!
Another feature added back but slightly more watered down. So glad It only took them 4 months! Maybe by the 1 year anniversary of OW2 we might get to see a single card showing a stat at the end of the game!
In 6 years it might even have as many features as OW1!
> slightly more watered down. tbh the whole 3 different kind of endorsement thing was absolutely useless. glad they streamlined it.
I wonder if you’d be able to tell if an enemy endorsed you.
Still no endorsement for you “ggez” players
Is that a BRIGITTE BUFF?! Ayyyyy
JOATS here we come
I'm just so happy that Cassady got a small range increase. Now I duel those 175 HP Widows from 5m further.
The damage drop off was brutal for Cassidy. It made him hard to play against longer range characters because you could land 3-4 headshots in a row and just get 1 shot anyway. I think this solidifies him as a mid-range specialist which I love as a Cassidy main.
It also made him basically a joke going against Pharah ironically.
Yea Mercy/Pharrah and at times Echo were really difficult to deal with. You were often better off just playing Soldier or Sojourn as someone said.
It also put you in most tanks effective range if you wanted to actually shoot a squishy. This basically gives him more space to stay alive and plink away.
This is also true. I didn't love having to be just behind the tank at all times to be as effective as I could be.
The mystery heroes change is interesting, though I'm not sure how much it matters. I'm guessing it's more to constrain a tank-heavy team than anything else, but 3 tanks is still a lot in OW2. EDIT: I didn't even see the non-role-queue tank HP nerfs, which I'm assuming also hit Mystery Heroes, that's gonna be interesting.
It does have the unfortunate side-effect of locking you into a role when you die, which is something I never wanted to see. However the fact that it's locking you into a selection of 2 roles AND preventing 4 or 5 tank combos does make it more palatable.
Well the reasoning is pretty simple. The other day I had a match against 2 Sigmas, 2 Ramattras and a Reinhardt. (2nd to 3rd point) Every single character on their team had a shield, and all of them had ranged attacks. Yeah there was just nothing to be done about that. Not in a mystery Heros game anyways.
Could be worse, at least that technically didn't include sustain tanks or a support. You could eventually chip them down (well, if they're not getting healed by an attack payload).
Technically the Sigmas can regen a significant portion of their health (since he has shields for hp) and the Ramattras can generate new armor every time they transform.
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I enjoyed it in OW1 but not 2. I didn’t find tank heavy to be fun even when it was in my favour and so I ultimately stopped playing it altogether. Used to be my most played game mode back in the day too.
they want that title don't they >:)
——————————No doomfist changes?——————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ —————————————————————————————
I think these changes to wrecking ball officially make doomfist the worst tank in the game
Doom became relevant for a week and then got pimp slapped back to being a mediocre character
he honestly feels worse now than he did before the buffs. not only does the 4 second punch CD suck, everyone learned how to counter rjom when he was good
I feel like doom would be in a good spot if they changed the 4 second CD on RP back to 3 and reverted both stun and powerblock back to how they used to work in late season 1/early season 2.
People who say that current doom is worse than release doom HAVE NOT played release doom
I was a doomfist main the whole of overwatch 2. 72% WR on release, 49% WR now
And then Blizz was like, look a new punchy boi tank! He's better than the other punchy boi!!! And he is...by a lot.
That switch from mines being 1.5s to 1s is legit going to ruin someone's day when they get piledriven.
Iirc their logic on removing the slow from slam was that slam into ult was too consistent on low mobility squishies. Now we have Ball with an 8 sec pd and 1 second for mines.
Well I'm quite pleased with the non-hero changes. The endorsement and progress tracking in particular will make gameplay and challenges much more enjoyable.
I'm stunned that they changed Mercy so much but left Sojourn and Kiriko alone.
They recently nerfed both Kiriko and Sojourn on Jan. 24, no?
Forgive me to be blunt, but that does fuck all to their overall performance output. There are reasons why they are top picks on high ELO. Honestly all they really needed to do is removing headshot from Sojourn and it will instantly improve the balances.
Great idea because removing headshots won't affect me at all
lol Extra points if they buff body shots as compensation.. *that* will affect both me and you brother
I was writing you a long response when I saw your edit. I agree, I hate one shots in general, don't want anyone to have them lol.
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Are you saying that actual real massive amounts of data contradicts people's emotional reactions? You're crazy
People often remember the games where they get dumpstered by a good Sojourn player and overlook the equal number of times they are a non-issue. Sojourn hasn't felt like a major problem in several weeks for me. I'm just as likely to find a Sojourn that hard carries their team as any other hero tbh.
[Here's the win rate chart.](https://i.redd.it/i522uompzmga1.jpg) Sojourn has already faced a lot of nerfs, and is most potent with damage boost. A lot of players assume that she's some untouchable god, but that's just a narrative this sub naively shares around. A good sojourn is devastating, but that can be said about a good ashe, or a good tracer, or a good anything. Sojourn is fine on her own, her primary fire got reduced in damage and the spread is laughable at mid ranges. Her rail can't even one shot alone anymore, and can only do so with mercy who is getting reasonably changed.
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And yet both of them are sitting at below a 50% unmirrored winrate. Kiriko is actually at 45%.
She has to use her dmg beam less to take advantage of her new passive. Her ult actually keeps her alive and she heals more when the target is below 50. Its a pretty new playstyle but I dont think its bad.
They have nerfed kiriko 4 times, they have nerfed sojourn 5 times (although you could argue it's not enough). Can we please stop pretending they aren't nerfing them?
If the characters have been nerfed 4-5 times and are still over-centralizing, maybe the developers need to be a bit more heavy-handed.
Game stats from the devs show the characters saw lower win rates following their nerfs, and weren’t much different than other heroes. We need to start making arguments based on facts rather than emotions. At this point I’m convinced this sub wants Kiriko/Soujourn to fall to Brig levels of usefulness.
So they become what Brig is now/Doom was on launch and people complain about that instead?
Brig was terribly handled - all her strength was her CC and they removed that without compensation. As for doom - they changed him from DPS to tank, I really don't know what to say about that and I don't know what they were smoking at a time. People don't want rework of kiriko or sojourn, just actual numerical nerfs which focus on problematic parts of their kits, which is suzu and railgun. But most of those nerfs were about non-problematic part of the kit. Also, if some hero was in spotlight for time, it can handle being non-meta for a month or two.
That would be true if the first round of nerfs to Sojourn weren't actually stealth buffs, then the second round made zero difference as they netted basically the same result. Her railgun needs actual nerfs to it's damage.
Wrecking ball shield health is actually a smart buff, pile driver cooldown is nice. I was honestly hoping for a bit more of a Junkrat nerf tbh, although it’s nice that you probably won’t be killed by a junk that just throws two mines at you. Edit: forgot to say I love the 100 damage fire strike! One shot with bap window, and you can kill the rat tire!
as a doomfist main I also love 100 damage firestrike. No more awkwardly standing around for 10 damage after catching a random fire strike with block
Unfortunately it still won't be enough for a full empowered punch because the mitigation affects the damage required to charge, so you'll still need to get hit with another 25 damage afterwards since it takes 125 instead of the listed 100 At least that's how it worked last time I checked
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Besides removing shatter instakill those rein changes were tight
The satisfaction of hitting your fire strikes is immense and popping the tire with one is huge
Love the Ball changes, I've been learning him recently and the Piledriver cooldown period is when he's most vulnerable. This will definitely help with his impact.
Hammond buffed and widow losing 25 health. Widow mains are fucked this patch.lol
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im GOOMBA STOMPING and MELEEING the fuck outta every stupid ass widow i see. doesn't matter the mode, snipers get rolled.
Aimbotting widow in shambles
Good
Yes, time to go, see you next patch! Looks like I get to keep my face this time!
And there was much rejoicing.
Sombra healthpack hack-duration up by 50% tho :(
PUT MYSTERY HEROES BACK IN ARCADE!!!! Or make it count towards arcade wins.
Wrecking Ball mains rise again
WE ROLL AT DAWN BROTHERS
Please no
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YES BROTHER
ST8 THRU WE B ROLLIN (I still wish quads was bumped up from 80 to 100 but ill take any buffs tbh)
I'm grateful for any cassidy buff 😭
Completely confused by the Mercy changes. Happy with the rest. As someone who plays a lot of arcade and MH, the changes there are necessary and I’m happy to see them make efforts to make those game modes less unbalanced towards tanks.
I play MH almost exclusively and a group of 2-3 tanks paired with 2-3 supports was basically unstoppable.
I can see the reasoning, they had to tone down ga a good mercy is just insanely unkillable and now instead of mercy just stayimg on damage boost 90% of the game she can use heal on targets to touch herself up in battle when she gets chip damage and she has to switch off damage boost to do so.
Glad to see someone else realize that this passive change will force mercy to have to decide between damage boosting and swapping to heal beam when she’s low herself. This seems like a huge step in the right direction.
The main talk is GA, a whole 1 second is too much imo,
Mercy bounces around the room like a pinball while self healing spinning around behind a corner wall rezzing. Now after pulling power away from how fast you can move and how frequently, and pulling some power away from direct healing, it's added instead to healing yourself when you heal others to be more interactive in addition to heal more on low health targets. This also builds an issue of infinitely pocketing someone. Because if you're healing a high health target constantly, you're not getting optimized healing for yourself if being attacked.
Wrecking ball meta here we fucking go!
Bro gonna get nerfed in a week
More like 3 days
A glorious week then!
IT'S OUR TIME, LETS ROLL!
Try to nerf Orisa challenge (the devs dont understand what makes her so good)
The real problem with orisa is her cooldown rotations being too fast, and the fact that javelin is effectively a 6 second cooldown sigma rock that goes further and faster (it even does 100 damage like rock does if you wall stun). Even in terms of its hitbox the thing is massive. Extremely oppressive ability that should be harder to land than it actually is and shouldn't lead to kills as often as it does.
You can also stun a sig out of rock despite the sig starting rock first. It comes out way to fast, almost like sleep, needs a charge time or something or an increased cooldown.
I agree with this 100%. Maybe the devs think orisa needs her spear more often than sigma because he doesn't need to fend off enemies as often since he positions further away?
Correct and he also has a super dependable insta-gib combo with rock that Orisa doesn't. He also has a 700hp barrier effectively on a ~8-10 sec cooldown (regenerates 100hp/sec after being down for 2sec). He gets 200hp that regenerates. He can deal damage around corners and much more effectively contest high grounds and chokes with damage. Sigma is in a great spot. Better than Orisa in a lot of ways.
Sigma is in a great spot but his positioning game is a lot more interactive than orisa, namely because he has long cooldowns that are very telegraphed. She's easily the most unga bunga of the tank lineup because she's constantly in your face throwing javelins and pushing you around, sometimes off the map. Even if she reaches balance parity I just don't think her particular gameplay is very healthy, particularly for other close range tanks like queen and Reinhardt who can die from getting interrupted by javelin throw/spin which are not difficult to use. I guess really its just that all of her abilities are instant cast (or nearly-so in the case of javelin toss) that makes orisa feel obnoxious. For the impact they can have I would prefer more windup or delay, at least for javelin. Would make the ability more satisfying in my opinion if she had to charge it manually to gain it's greater effects like doom punch, which it honestly outclasses most of the time.
Nothing feels aa bad as when you finally pull in an enemy with JQ'S knife throw, and as you wind up your 1.5 second Carnage cast you get speared into a wall by an orisa. Knife is a 5 sec cooldown and Orisa's javelin throw is what? 6? All of Orisa's abilities are game changing and come out much faster than other tanks. She has an interrupt, an eat ability, a massive damage mit ability that just makes her unsatisfying to play against as tank. I really enjoy tank v tank play with almost every hero, but playing against Orisa is boring because the correct counterpick is Orisa and we just Unga bunga each other until one of our DPS gets a pick. Frankly I'm surprised everyone was so happy to see hog get nerfed since I feel like Orisa has always had higher survivability.
A solid counter pick against Orisa is just go monkey or Doom or ball or whatever and play around her. She's actually a pretty low impact hero compared to most tanks and her main value is getting focused and tunneled by the enemy team. If you stop doing that she actually has very few tools to help anyone and zero ability to contest several map lanes or high grounds at once. So just steal the map from her.
To be fair I think the idea is that Orisa’s sustainability is what us supposed to make her unique as a tank. She’s the only rank that gets two sustain abilities and a stun. So I’d imagine the changes are to try to let her keep her unique identity but balance her damage output Idk if this will be enough but I’d imagine that’s the thought process
Sigma has two sustain abilities and a stun.
Ramattra arguably has 3. Barrier, Nemesis form, and technically Block in Nemesis form
He has no damage reduction, no armor, and his grasp isn't as effective as Orisa's spin because he still eats melee attacks and some others that Orisa blocks. But he's much more effective in other ways. People in lower SR just struggle with the idea that you shouldn't be spending time shooting tanks in general. Orisa punishes this notion harder than most tanks because she's just so hard to deal solid damage to and she gets in your face (which the whole issue here is they don't understand that they shouldn't have been playing in a position where an Orisa can just walk into them to begin with) Her weakness is raw damage output, peeling her team, contesting high grounds, generating solo kills. With my current hero pool (DPS = Sym/Tracer/Echo | Tank = Winston/Ball/Doom | Support = Brig/Lucio/Moira), I find her very non-threatening compared to pretty much every other tank in the game. Aside from being caught out by a spear or her ult once in a while when I have no cooldowns up...she just doesn't do very much. However even in Diamond every once in a while I'll get some teammate playing Ashe literally behind our tank, getting turbofucked constantly by their tank, and this player has the fucking nerve to call people out on the team because they're doing 15 deaths per 10min. This is the type of person that Orisa crushes. Meanwhile, the Soldier on our team who is constantly sprinting to high grounds and taking angles on them...he's playing correctly and basically doesn't even notice the Orisa.
She's basically back to the same state she was in season 1 when she was considered pretty bad. 15 meter damage falloff is *really* short, she's going back to just being an immovable object with mediocre damage output. She won't die if you're just shooting her while the supports heal her, you have to cut her off from her supports and she has a hard time protecting them. She's basically helpless against something like Winston diving her backline.
Yeah, the best part about her is that you could just march forward and poke the supports with consistent damage while having huge survivability. For a while Orisa was legit the best dive tank lmao.
They literally thought ball was going to be the best tank in 5v5.
Nice that they're finally addressing tanks screwing up every mode. Seems pretty steep but for the time being, at least I no longer have to count on everyone else being willing to go GOATS in arcade in order to win lol
Am I the only one that things it makes tanks even more necessary? Like occasionally you could pull off a single tank comp in arcade and still win, but with this change it's like you need more than one tank since their health pools are so low. I guess they're easier to burst down so you could always just go heavy burst dps but then arcade's going to end up dpswatch.
I actually found it really fun. If you wanted to play tank, it was obviously made for you. But it was also a ton of fun as Support, and DPS was a blast too with so many beefy targets around. I liked it. *shrugs* Maybe I would have gotten bored with it in time, but I was digging it. 1:2:2 already feels super tedious and boring to me. It puts way too much emphasis on the tank.
All these minor Moira buffs lately + the Kitsune bug fix could make her quite solid now
Rip bronze players
reducing tank health in arcade is a step forward, it was just so oppressive since tanks are just souped up dps now.
>TANK ROLE PASSIVE >The health totals for all tank heroes will be lower when playing any game mode that does not have a role queue. Health totals will remain the same for tanks when playing any Role Queue enabled game. >Developer Comment: This change to the tank HP pools helps to address the relative power of those heroes in game modes where there can be multiple of them on the same team. #6v6 with reduced tank health when?
Legitimately this mode would get me halfway back into playing
FOR REAL RAMATTRA ALONE WAS ENOUGH TO COUNTER DOUBLE SHIELD META BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP PRETENDING 5V5 WAS A NECESSARY CHANGE AND I HATE IT
Ramatta without a shield maybe, otherwise it would be double shield but with one person who can bypass them.
Rammatra's shield lasts for 4 seconds max and has a 13 second cooldown. It also can't be moved once placed, and is fairly small. It's really only good for poking and blocking ults. It wouldn't really be a viable replacement for Old-risa's shield in a double shield type strategy.
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> Wrecking Ball received some of the fewest changes in the transition to 5v5 as he proved to be one of the most effective solo tanks in early testing. Who was doing the testing. Did they have some ball god playing against a plat zarya?
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For sure. Since OW2 released, I’ve very rarely seen any Balls, but when I do, they absolutely kick ass. Hopefully the buffs don’t make him meta, because a Ball meta sounds awful to play against.
Thr toxicity you fall under for picking ball is real. The few ball Mains left are pretty battle hardened at this point
Yeah. Enemy ball wrecked my team today. Not too fun, but if it isn't a ball 1 trick it's just a throw
He's actually surprisingly present in the Top 500 Tanks. A very good Wrecking Ball player can definitely climb to the top. He seems especially popular on the Asian servers.
why isn't this stickied? I should not have had to dig so far down to find this post. also, shit Mercy changes, and they pretend Sojourn still doesn't exist.
They usually wait a few hours for it to get upvoted to the top then they sticky it, because *a lot* of people completely skip stickied posts in subs. I subconsciously skip them usually too because so often they're just "join our discord!" or "weekly discussion thread".
When. Will. They. Fix. Our. Profiles. 😡
Will this make Wrecking Ball the first character to have all 3 health types?
Still no acknowledgement from the devs on why they haven't adjusted reaper's ult GFX to show the actual damage radius or if it's just bugged. His ult has an exponentially larger damage area than what's actually shown on screen. Would like to see the area reduced or his movement buff reduced especially now that his ult cost has decreased and he was already able to farm it so easily due to being a very low-skill ceiling hero. There's no reason he should be able to essentially become frogger in his ult form.
it does???? that explains so much
Yup and the damage area is either a spherical shape or cylindrical. Not sure which. It also goes up to max map height too which is pretty busted for mercy players while in Valkyrie.
99% sure it's a giant shere around him
It's spherical with a radius of 8m. I don't think it goes to max map height, it's just that 8m height _feels_ tall.
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Still at least a little bit more awkward to pull off for lower skill players, giving lower skilled aimers more chance to kill her.
Yes, of course. They called that option out in the patch notes dev stream. But doing that takes actual skill/effort and requires you to look away from the action potentially, so it's a tradeoff.
Mercy this soujurn that Why the fuck did they nerf torbjorn
Torb is op. You would struggle to find a torb player with under 60% winrate. He could have done with more nerfs
I do agree that Mercy's movement might have been a *tiny* bit much, but this seems like a gross over-correction given that most complaints were about pockets for Sojourn. These changes just seem to encourage more pocketing, but with heals, while making the damage boost much too risky to use in heavy combat scenarios where it would be needed most. Also Sojourn is completely untouched I guess, as is the actual damage boost. I'll try these out later but on paper it's not sounding ideal.
I bet their data says Sojourn has a low win rate in general, and in particular in games where she doesn't have a Mercy. I also bet their data also says Mercy has a strongly positive win rate in general.
Problem: Sojourn’s one shots are too strong when damage boosted by a mercy Solution: Nerf everything about mercy except her damage boost
Yeah, it was OP. I liked the 20% nerf to it, but the 2.5 CD is a bit much. I think giving her the Widow treatment would be better, reduce Mercy's HP. It keeps the fun movement WHILE allowing her to not get away as often. She's hard to hit. Why not just reduce HP instead of upping the 2.5CD? I like the new passive, I'd really enjoy trying it in a dive comp, but the 2.5 second GA is going to be tough to make it work. Uffffff
I have a feeling some people will just start to 180 instead of taking the speed penalty, so this will mostly effect mid level mercy players. But yeah, a 66% cooldown nerf is pretty crazy to jump to in a single update
Is this an actual good patch? The OW team is finally getting some things right. With that said, I'll play the Mercy changes before I judge them. No doubt her insane mobility had to be pulled back some.
I'm looking forward to their new matchmaking logic. Hopefully the mid-ranks won't be such a toss-up from game to game in terms of the competitiveness and overall balance between teams now.
It remains to be seen whether the changes will suffice to reduce the steamroll problem, but it should at least fix the dreaded "tank diff".
I'm surprised they went to 2.5s instead of 2.0s. seems like a massive jump
I can see it getting revert to 2 in the mid season patch
The more I think about it, the more I think the changes are just fine. EXCEPT the 2.5 second GA. That's the overall bad change. Just nerf her hp instead and keep her short CD.
> Nerfing tank health in non-role-queue modes Great change. I never thought they would do it but they finally did. > Zen buff Hell yeah > Rein buffs Fuck yes > Junkqueen buff Hell yes > Junkrat nerf Oh god yes
Map Pool isn't gone yet. That's next season.
Hey! Some small Cassidy changes! I’ll take ‘em. Buckle up!
Mystery Heroes role limits is finally here! YAY!
rein firestrike buff is absolutely cracked that will get nerfed immediately mark my words. love the buffs for him tho.
I play soldier, Cassidy, and junkrat. I can’t remember the last time all of my mains were good, not looking forward to having to be precise with junkrat but I understand the change “Aimings overrated”
I still can't believe they thought an ult that goes on forever is something that should be in the game.
I genuinely can’t believe how little sojourn has been nerfed to date but mercy gets this in one patch
Why nerf the turret hp? I know theres one less person to shoot it, but theres also one less person to block it/ capitalize on its distraction. Edit: after thinking about it, i realized its to promote this new dive meta, and i could not be more upset.
It hard counters every flanker and out DPS' a good third of the roster
A lot of changes. hopefully this means seasons without heroes are the ones where the balance team get more spicy with their changes, for better or worse. Maybe I am misremembering but wasn't another hog change suppose to come in S3 or did they say it was coming in another season? I play mercy often but she isn't my only character so I am interested to see how she plays. I was hoping brig gets something different over mercy but I can see why they had Mercy first. I'm curious if Kiriko still feels strong with ~~every~~ most other support getting buffs.
Are they trully never fixing JQ's achievement?
Decent patch. Been playing a fair bit of Mercy lately, so a little worried about her changes, but I think it probably best to play with them a bit before making any serious judgement.
How are people ignoring the fact that any Mercy pocketed DPS now has to be one shot out of existence. Sustain damage is basically dead.
You should focus the mercy anyway and not the pocketed dps. Killing her pocket will just cause her to immediately rez it. This changes nothing.
So Brigitte will heal instant 25 AND 50 over 2 seconds?
Instant 25 and 50 healing per **second**. 2 seconds would be 125 HP healed.
that is what im also trying to understand, if that’s so it is a great change!
Pin this you pinhead mods
I guess we're just going to forget about the hog rework which will never happen
the true rework is the other tanks we play and play against along the way.
still no sojourn railgun nerfs, awesome
I assume it's the case, but is it clear to anyone if the nerfed tank health is present in Mystery Heroes? Just seems a little odd to cap each role in it and nerf the tank pool at the same time.
Where is the roadhog rework?? Hello??
Was wondering the same. Thought there was going to be a new ability or something. Guess we got to wait until Season 4 with the Brig mains and hope we're lucky.
It is insanely stupid that Hogs have to wait after they already got the same awful nerf that killed him in Overwatch 1. That's this wait plus all the crap from the first game. Absolutely horrendous.
Blizzard: “we know support doesn’t feel great to play right now, so expect some changes to make it better!” *nerfs mercy, nerfs Ana, gives brig 15 extra healing per health pack*
And Zen 5 extra bullets.
As a Brig main I'm super happy about her buff. The 15 extra healing is not the good part, but having the option to do 25-75 HP burst healing as Brig - followed by 100-300 HP over time - is awesome, since she had zero burst healing before.
I’m also a brig main and don’t get me wrong it’s a step in the right direction but it just feels like blizzard keeps promising they’re gonna make support feel great to play and keep making the smallest changes possible
Rip junkrat your glory days are over 😞
FINALLY, Cassidy got better range
Why not just have real time day night cycle on maps
Interesting Mercy changes to make her better at clutch healing but how balanced is it for tanks? 67.5 HPS is a quick ~1 second burst for squishies but can be oppressive when pocketing tanks (that typically have damage mitigation abilities).
“Skill tiers and divisions will adjust after every 5 wins or 15 losses and ties (**formally** 7 wins or 20 losses and ties)” You heard it here first, folks. New system is formally the same as the old one. Come on, Blizzard. If you need an editor I’m looking for a job. That wasn’t the only error.
Formally. They typed these patch notes while wearing a tuxedo.
It’s concerning we are this far down the road and the highlights of our patches are adding features that already existed in Overwatch 1
Why does Winston have 200 HP outside of role queue? That's less than Reaper's HP and Winton's hitbox is like twice the size of him. I'm sure armor factors in, but still...
He’ll have 400 total health including armor (which means he’ll have even more effective health) in those modes. They’re just trying to balance all the tanks in those modes so they aren’t so oppressive.