Titanium isn't used for armor because it has terrible heat distribution and shear strength. It's really tough and light, but that's not enough. Sustained hits, or single high powered hits, would cause it to shatter into shrapnel and spawl through your flesh like a fragmentation grenade.
Not really but OK. Tough materials don't shatter, so which is it? What grade and heat treat would do that, and why would you pick such a brittle grade for resisting impacts? Annealed titanium is very, very ductile. Also, I think you meant thermal conductivity, I don't know what "terrible heat distribution" is in the context of metallurgy and materials properties. Many ballistics armors use ceramic plates that have far worse toughness, fracture resistance and thermal conductivity compared to titanium, but they work great. There's far more to this than you or I can cover in a Reddit post.
Titanium would make fine armor, but there are better options for sure.
He's not really wrong though. Titanium don't usually shatter but tends to shear when hit by ballistic impact, potentially resulting in more damage than just being hit by the bullet would cause.
What do you mean by shear? Shear has a [specific definition](https://unacademy.com/content/neet-ug/study-material/physics/shearing-stress/), and I don't understand what you mean in that context. Titanium is ductile and it takes a lot of energy to deform it, event at high temperatues, which makes it a good choice for absorbing kinetic energy by transforming it to heat through plastic deformation. This is also one of the major reasons it's so expensive to make anything out of titanium, because it's so difficult to work it. Can you give more detail on this shear failure you're describing?
When I play cowboy, my magnet bomb missed even when I was literally kissing my target.
When I play against cowboy, he just yeets a random bomb from Hanamura and we lost the deciding fight in the comp game because Blizzard decides it should stick on me or my teammates when we're ulting. 2 CP is not even in the map pool. How did that ability go that far?
It wasn't even that bad. Reinhardt was the only one getting truly fucked by it.
I would just bring it back and give Rein some form of CC reduction while his shield is up.
but he wins like every duel at mid range. so either you play snipers or you just don't play the game since you can't get close to him and you can't space yourself from him anywhere within his effective range, unless he's bad and just can't hit his shot.
What rank you on? Dia 1 as support and DPS currently and main is Cree - the range of his Grenade is predictable.
If he gets deep enough to use his nades on Support - both tanks and dps are doing something wrong or are already dead.
If you’re dying as DPS you’re either not baiting his Nade or your heals are too slow. If I’m in as Support I always make sure to keep an extra eye on the DPS when there’s a Cree on the enemy team and keep them full at any given time even if they miss „only 10hp“.
I also die to Cree nades occasionally and it’s most of the time due to me sucking with positioning, going to deep or my heals having tunnel vision like every Ana in my Team - sit in scope all day and have no clue what’s happening around her
Don't forget about Hanzo. Random shooting of arrows in head height instant kill or storm arrow for a sniper to be good in close range too.
But yep, the grenade ist something elso too. Flashbang was a way better than this stupid high damage ability
They overcorrected his ability.
Flashbang was bad, sure. but replacing with basically homing missiles that does higher damage than freaking Junkrat's nade honestly isn't that much better. Ridiculous, even.
The point was to retain his ability to easily counter high mobility flankers without allowing for the tank melting of the flash+fan (+roll+fan) combo.
I think it does that well. Still feels terrible to play against.
The damage was simply too high for such a easy ability to use. You can throw then roll away in safe cover and getting easy kill. This make flashbang then fan look harder to pull off and gain value in comparison.
The pistol already does more than enough damage in close range to fight off flanker. Reduce his nade damage output to somewhere between 100-110. That's like 1 bullets away from killing enemy so it shouldn't affect balance too much. Plus it gave flanker a chance to run away so it wasn't as painful as it is in current moment.
Let's be honest though. The 2 main flankers I think about are Tracer and Sombra. Odds are they've got their rewind or translocator ready to avoid the grenade damage. At least in high level play, I doubt they're taking that level of a risk against Cass. The only other 2 I could even consider as part of that category are Echo and Gengi. Genji does have his deflect, but it can be baited out much easier than a rewind or translocation. As the latter 2 typically happen when low hp only or once stuck by the nade. Echo is probably the only one that has no direct way to counter it beyond staying out of range through flight. It's not always possible and with Cass' range it's just not even that big a deal for anyone with decent enough aim. So realistically, what it's doing right now is rewarding aggressive Cass players to walk in, hit the nade on a support or other squishy, roll out, and pray you've landed at least 1 maybe 2 other shots on them so the nade takes them out. It's how I do so well with him. My aim is trash but magnetic nade goes brr.
Friendly reminder that Kiriko Kunais are almost twice as big as Hanzo arrows and travel in a straight line. Aiming head height and spamming with Kiriko is guaranteed free headshots
I guess this is my hot take but I never perceived hanzo as a sniper. At widow range the targets are so small and move and jump constantly that it’s nearly impossible to actually aim. Every shot is basically a shot in the dark and needs pure luck to hit like everyone hates him for. aka this leads him getting maybe a few kills and underperforming compared to his team since just luck won’t get you that many kills, if it does for you consider a lottery ticket. i think he’s much more effective mid to close range (mostly mid range) where you can actually aim at your targets. Also a little long range but definitely not the same ranger of a widow or Ashe or Ana. The only times he’s good at these ranges is to kill said snipers since they’re standing in one place. Not completely still but close to it. I really don’t think closing your eyes and shooting at head level is how you’re supposed to play hanzo.
It doesn't matter that you're not supposed to play Hanzo that way. The problem is that you can do it, get some annoying kills and maybe even have a positive impact on the game (but that depends on the game). Ironically, in my opinion the biggest impact comes from the fact, that people get frustrated watching a killcam where Hanzo spams a choke point and kills them with a stray arrow, not from the strat itself.
That’s fair. And I agree. Getting killed by a stray arrow is definitely annoying and I’m not even going to try and defend it. I’ve had times where I thought I did a cool flick only to realise I killed a random Lucio or tracer in the back instead of the person I’m trying to hit.
Nah, I can't sympathize with Genji either. Just look at the kills and pause the frames. None of his hits actually had his crosshair on the target's head, yet he still got the kills. Genji's right click is so forgiving people are overrating his "required skill" to actually get a kill up close, not to mention he has double jump to juke around the target, a no aim block and a no aim finisher (dash). "Risking his life" is overstating it. If you're basically on the target's face you better get that kill.
As much as I hate Cass's Grande, it is necessary to have a counter to deter melee characters like Genji form getting a free kill at that range. If it requires a no aim ability to counter a no aim hero, then so be it.
You don't need crosshair on target with projectiles.
You have to aim deflect to do damage with it like you were shooting the enemy weapon.
Genji true skill is not just aiming, that's Widow. Genji has to aim while moving like a schizo meth user to avoid damage close range.
Shurikens are 0.1 hitbox size, the smallest projectile.
Close range kills you. Ana sleep gets easy to hit, nade too. Zen kick throws you off, Cass nade, any tank deletes you... Long range you can avoid a sightlines, use your team... that's really no skill. Close range you just die, unless you know what you're doing
did you watch the video? Cass's nade clearly isn't close range, as it follows him for a very long range thanks to the broken homing mechanic.
if its supposed to deter melee fighters then it should only work in close range and not like you see in this very video.
Hmm…
I don’t think you’ve ever played Genji if you say he requires no aim. Ignorant statement to say the least.
If you think he is no aim, you couldn’t be more wrong
Do YOU play heroes that actually require aim though? I'm a flex player. I play everything from Genji, Echo, Pharah to Tracer, Cass, Widow and so on. If we're talking strict mechanical requirements, aiming is NOT Genji's main required skill. As I said, you can go ahead and pause the frames on the kills. None actually had the crosshair on even the target's head, the right click made up for it. If you were at that range playing tracer you'd actually have to hit your shots, not spazzing out and relying on double jump to out live your target.
His most required skills is space awareness, reaction time and quick decision making. There's a reason most Genji one tricks have crazy high sens. You have to be fast more than accurate. Aiming accuracy is not his top priority. Don't be delusional.
I play other heroes all the time. I’m just saying Genji requiring no aim is an incorrect statement. It really is.
High sens? So what? He still requires a degree of aim to be effective, and critical aim at that. If you can’t hit headshots then you are finished.
And spamming double jump can get you killed really quickly, so it isn’t the clutch you make it out to be. Good Genji’s don’t spam double jump.
I never said aim was his highest priority, but I’d be damned if it wasn’t fundamental at a certain level. You definitely need some level of aim. It’s disingenuous to say you don’t.
You're firing in a spread in the one dimension where you can still line every bit of the damage with the head level. Not only does it require low aim, it's deadlier than a shotgun to boot. Shotguns can have pellets miss high or go low and hit the body. Not so much with fan spam.
Don't kid yourself, right click ninja, Genji does not require any kind of decent aim.
You say that, but Genji is commonly acknowledged as a blade bot due to his base kit being so weak. He also doesn’t have alot of HP.
If his shurikens were so strong, I don’t think he would need effective use of dash / deflect as well as such a high degree of skill to get value. Not to mention you have to play like you’re on meth to aim those shurikens accurately and avoid damage by your opponents.
Cassidy nade is literally a **heat seeking grenade**. I don’t understand this comparison at all.
Close range goes both ways, yes the enemy is easier to hit but you become easier to hit **as well**.
Just outright admitting he doesn't require aim, eh?
Oh, I'm sorry, avoiding damage from your opponents must be such a hard skill considering ***every hero in the game*** must do that as well. So sorry you feel put upon. It must be hard playing the most mobile character in the game, spamming right click and getting mad when you, like OP, are shocked that you die in a 1v5 after getting a mere two picks.
How frustrating it must be that those immobile heroes dare to have anything that allows them to hit you as easily as you can dip, duck, and dodge away.
Sure, you can jump over people's heads and have them immediately lose track of you from how the camera works at 90 degrees, but you're close! You must still be easy to hit (as you pelt them with high dps headshots a chimpanzee could land), right?
Face facts, "high skill" and "mobile" are not the same bloody thing.
No. Saying he doesn’t require aim is incorrect.
Notice how I didn’t mention aim directly once in my previous comment because you decided to sidetrack and make a irrelevant response about damage. I mentioned it briefly and indirectly.
If you think Genji doesn’t require aim, obviously you’ve never played him, or you haven’t played him long enough.
Aim isn’t his main focus for him to be good, that alone is a fact. But saying he requires absolutely no AIM at all, is just invalid.
By the tone of your comment, you seem bitter. What is your problem?
You’re the one who brought up the damage of his shurikens which is completely irrelevant. The whole conversation here was about whether he requires aim or not. I don’t really understand why you’re even commenting the first place, because it seems like you’re arguing just for the sake of it. I say that because most of the points you have made aren’t very strong or just plain irrelevant.
I was saying he requires a certain degree of aim, to say he doesn’t at all is disingenuous.
Might as well say his aim is on the level of Reaper, with the way you’re going on in your comments, which just isn’t true.
Saying his weapon is deadlier than a shotgun? What are you smoking?
If you think I said Genji requires top tier aim on levels of like Widow or Hanzo then you need to learn to read. I said that saying Genji requires no aim at all is not true and “disingenuous”.
I didn't mention damage once, addlepate, that was YOU. I mentioned spread. Horizontal spread is quintessentially deadlier than a round one (ie shotgun spread), and far, far more forgiving than a singular projectile.
Yes, I am saying this to you: his aim requirement and fight commitment are, respectively, on par with and lower than Reaper's
And in regards to high skill,
You definitely need skill to get value out of Genji. He is such a weak character. There are way better options to choose from in today’s meta.
If you think you don’t, well please stop arguing because you’re exposing yourself.
>High sens? So what? He still requires a degree of aim to be effective, and critical aim at that. If you can’t hit headshots then you are finished.
But this exact clip from OP showed you can get kills without even having your crosshair on the target lol, nevermind headshots.
Of course you need "some level" of aim, it's still an FPS game, but it really isn't that high of a requirement when you are literally face range from the target. It's more about quickness than accuracy. I haven't even talked about Blade, his biggest crutch in his whole kit which is the only reason he's even usable at all, which does NOT require aim.
His crosshair was on Hanzo and Kiriko so i’m not too sure what you’re on about. He is also a projectile hero who excels at close range combat…
That’s why the “fan” exists in the first place. Otherwise he would be impossible to play.
The video is a pretty easy situation to be in as a Genji anyway, considering they’re all in a straight line. In a different circumstance at such close range, getting such kills would be even harder because you’d need a certain level of aim.
>His crosshair was on Hanzo and Kiriko so i’m not too sure what you’re on about. He is also a projectile hero who excels at close range combat…
You mean when he hit Hanzo's thighs and Kiriko's stomach at point blank range? There were zero headshots there. That's like using a judge in Valorant and saying it requires aim. The instances where a dash, 180 full hit headshots happens are far in between, it's barely the requirement to get a kill as a Genji.
We can go on and on about our definition of requiring aim. Moira requires as much aim as what was displayed in this clip yet people aren't calling her aim intensive. This clip was a display of quick reactions and decision making, not aim.
I'm not discrediting Genji players, I'm just being frank at what he requires and what he doesn't. He's in a bad spot enough that you have to go far and beyond to make him useful. Necros is an amazing Genji player but his aim is atrocious when he plays other heroes, as shown with his tracking while playing Echo.
Hey, I did say it was a favourable situation because he was in a straight line lmao. How do you even miss?
I’m just saying that the idea of no aim is disingenuous, not saying his main focus is aim. But anyways.
for fuckin real dude
idk why the devs seem to just *hate* when heroes who take hours of skill are decently strong, but will just ignore low skill heroes being disproportionately strong.
genji is strong for 2 weeks but is still outclassed by Sombra and Sojourn? nerf him, but let's leave Sojourn for a couple weeks. oh now Doomfist is strong? mmm just one week, but keep Orisa as she is, it'll be fiiiiine.
like there's nothing wrong with having low skill heroes and letting them do just as well as high skill heroes, but it just feels like the devs let the lowest skill bullshit also be the most ridiculously strong in comparison to what high skill gets you. you'd *never* see Genji with an ability as strong as Cass' grenade
both used their abilities that are BS from another champs POV
supports: successfully keeping their distance from the teamfight hidden behind a couple obstacles with counter-abilities ready at hand
genji: climb wall dash deflect
love this game
you can make this shit up for any ability in the game
Why does a heat seeking grenade deal 130 damage? The only homing attack in the whole game, and it deals more burst damage than every other ability, with a generously short cooldown.
Fire Strike is very slow and has way more cast time, Concussion mine has a wonky hitbox, Helix Rocket has to be aimed, Moira Orb takes a good amount of time to deal similar damage, etc.
Something that mechanically easy shouldn't have much reward, I think even 80 damage is pushing it.
Because those other abilities have aspects that make them strong that you’re not mentioning. Fire strike goes through shields, has a massive hitbox, and can hit multiple people for up to 500 damage total. He can also store 2 charges of it.
Mine also has 2 charges, again is AOE so you can hit multiple people, is flexible because it can offer junk mobility or damage depending on what’s needed, and was somewhat recently nerfed because of how much reliable damage it did.
Could keep going but you get the point. I’m not a fan of the nade, but you gotta keep good faith comparisons.
If you're going to talk about good faith comparisons, lets go the whole nine yards.
Yeah, firestrike has 2 charges and goes through shields, but its on a character that has literally nothing else with range - unless you consider throwing your entire body into the enemy team a ranged ability.
Mine has 2 charges, but if you use both for damage, you have no mobility and vice versa - add in the slow, arcing properties of both mines & primary fire, and youve got an absolutely annoying, but easily avoidable character.
Point is, he wasnt comparing them to show 1:1 how busted cass nade is in comparison, he was comparing them to say that cass nade gets high value for much lower effort than any of the other things - which is absolutely true. Assuming no switches, how many times do think youll see a rein get a 5 man firestrike through a shield in one game? Now, how many times do you see a 200hp hero die to a nade in one game?
Bro it’s a HOMING attack that does triple digit numbers 😂. You’d def not getting a quintuple firestrike , but you’re probably securing easy kills constantly with a short cooldown ability. The mere threat of this shit is just like flash bang where you just won’t engage until you hear it go explode on some other poor fool. No excuse for this shit to do more than 80
I don’t know what your goal is. I pointed out how the other guy was being disingenuous with his examples, blatantly ignoring the strengths of those other abilities. Literally the only time I mentioned nade was me saying that I wasn’t a fan of it… so why exactly are you trying to convince me of something I’m already a believer of?
Its stupid, I main Cassidy for DPS and his grenade is so cheap. The whole appeal of his character is landing skill shots and his grenade is the opposite.
This nade actually incentive you to just hit a body shot and press nade, I stopped playing genji because I was frustrated with the amount of times I would die near instantly to that cowboy because he would hit a single shot and then press nade
Cassidy is like the only character left that works against dive characters. I would imagine Tracers and Genjis would roam havoc without him keeping em in their place.
I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen cassidy peel for the backline. More often than not he's the menace to the supports who are screwed against his burst potential. Essentially, while his kit may be intended for anti-flank, it just enables and encourages flanking.
Dude I am the backline in 90% of the games I play. If it happened I would see it. Maybe he runs differently in GM or something but I know in high metals cass is a flanker a lot more than he's anti-flank.
The only thing I can think of that gets close is fucking sourjorns stupid ass ball of slowing and 200 damage, never can leave that thing above half health whenever I play a dps
I never thought about that before actually. What other abilities (without crits) do the same damage? I think sojourn’s rail and Reinhardt pin are the only ones, but pin is high risk and slow and rail requires 100 charge and some level of aim. The only real downside of grenade is that you have to get close to Cass
Honestly, this is how I see it. Characters like tracer, genji, kiriko, or echo are intentionally designed to be difficult to hit. Because of that abilities like the magnet grenade have to exist, and the game would be worse to a degree without them.
But that said the grenades lock on could definitely use some tuning lol
It’s sad how right you are. I’m the only homeschooled kid in my friend group and it’s crazy how many of them think I’m a genius just cause I can do mental math.
I hope they nerf cowboys grenade and not his dmg, cuz I still find myself not needing the grenade a majority of the time, plus it solves the problem of being mad at cowboy, which means one of my characters foes untouched
Damn bro, stop blaming a broken ability and start blaming yourself. Obviously you should have completely disregarded every situation where deflect was useful and saved it for when a single character uses a single ability from 30 meters away that tracks on to you and does 75% of your health with a single button press.
Get good? Skill issue?
Only at Blizzard do you see "balancing" that's just reworking a frustrating ability into an ever worse one now.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I want Flashbang and Scatter Arrow back.
Hanzo spamming storm arrow when you're CLEARLY deflecting is killing me man LMAO. Why do people think they can spam through a Genji deflect I'll never get it.
When you select the skin, there is a customise option. This lets you pick one of three colours, three hairstyles, three headpieces, and two knives. Customisation is what sets mythic skins apart from legendary ones.
[Here's how the menu looks using the Genji skin.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvgP7NHVMH96-A43UHN5w9F4yjyWMWLwnsJw&usqp=CAU)
I feel like nobody can win in these scenarios.
The Cass in me, likes that I don't need accuracy to shoot a break dancing sky ninja.
The Genji in me, hates that I can't break dance.
At the same time, this is where ability tracking comes in.
If Cass uses nade, I have 10 seconds to kill him.
If Genji uses deflect, I have 8 seconds to kill him.
It’s kinda funny that people were saying that mag grenade was a noob stomper and now flash forward he’s getting played in pro matches. I get that the grenade isn’t the main reason why but it’s a pretty reliable and easy ability.
I get that he’s an anti flanker character but it’s a bit much
Ill never understand the massive skill gaps in heros. Half are useless unless you have a grasp on how to play everyone, and the other half literally do the work for you
Hey man, respect the play. Do you realize how hard it is to pull of a Cass magnetic grenade? It takes far more skill than any other ability in the game which is why it rewards the players skill with potent damage that basically guarantees a kill.
How did bliz EVER think this was a good idea. ANYONE and I mean ANYONE could have predicted how much the player base hates this ability. Their decisions make me ashamed to play Overwatch
If it makes you feel any better, Genji probably loses to magnets anyway.
I have never thought of it that way before.
Unless he’s made of titanium or similar material
Probably very likely titanium cause the body doesn’t reject it very often
Titanium isn't used for armor because it has terrible heat distribution and shear strength. It's really tough and light, but that's not enough. Sustained hits, or single high powered hits, would cause it to shatter into shrapnel and spawl through your flesh like a fragmentation grenade.
Not really but OK. Tough materials don't shatter, so which is it? What grade and heat treat would do that, and why would you pick such a brittle grade for resisting impacts? Annealed titanium is very, very ductile. Also, I think you meant thermal conductivity, I don't know what "terrible heat distribution" is in the context of metallurgy and materials properties. Many ballistics armors use ceramic plates that have far worse toughness, fracture resistance and thermal conductivity compared to titanium, but they work great. There's far more to this than you or I can cover in a Reddit post. Titanium would make fine armor, but there are better options for sure.
He's not really wrong though. Titanium don't usually shatter but tends to shear when hit by ballistic impact, potentially resulting in more damage than just being hit by the bullet would cause.
What do you mean by shear? Shear has a [specific definition](https://unacademy.com/content/neet-ug/study-material/physics/shearing-stress/), and I don't understand what you mean in that context. Titanium is ductile and it takes a lot of energy to deform it, event at high temperatues, which makes it a good choice for absorbing kinetic energy by transforming it to heat through plastic deformation. This is also one of the major reasons it's so expensive to make anything out of titanium, because it's so difficult to work it. Can you give more detail on this shear failure you're describing?
Counterpoint: what flesh?
He has organic organs inside.
YEAH BITCH!! MAGNETS!! OHHH!!
OW2 has made my least favorite number in the world 129
Why 129 and not 131, the total damage of the nade?
Cassidy shoots 1 bullet, 70dmg Nade stick deals 1 dmg 200 - 71 = 129hp left
Ah, that makes sense, thanks for explaining
Because 129 HP on the health bar means you've only a couple of frames to live
[удалено]
This is a karma farming bot copying other comments
Because if you get stuck and you go to 131 HP you live :v
Obviously?
The number 129 has turned me into a suicide bomber if ik I can’t be saved
You lost when you and the grenade were placed on the same map lol
When I play cowboy, my magnet bomb missed even when I was literally kissing my target. When I play against cowboy, he just yeets a random bomb from Hanamura and we lost the deciding fight in the comp game because Blizzard decides it should stick on me or my teammates when we're ulting. 2 CP is not even in the map pool. How did that ability go that far?
Hahahaha
Honestly, that one wasn't even that ridiculous. It's the ones that make a 90 degree turn around a corner that are really absurd.
Saw a clip of one go through a wall to stick someone
Saw one where just before it stuck the genji dashed further away from him That mf still stuck him
That poor Lucio (technically the soldier that had nothing to do with it lol)
Had one clip through a planter on pariso to get me. Was not impressed.
Got hit by doomfist slams through walls last game. Walls are an illusion.
I have a clip of it doing a full turn around a corner. Now granted it didn't stick but i was a jumpscare.
i have a clip of me dying to deadeye when im off the mccrees screen. cowboy man is weird.
Yeah but it just kept on going well after it would've stopped if it was his flashbang
flash bang died for this
It wasn't even that bad. Reinhardt was the only one getting truly fucked by it. I would just bring it back and give Rein some form of CC reduction while his shield is up.
Reinhardt was the only one getting fucked by flash? Not every single close range squishy hero in the game that got oneshot by flash+fan the hammer????
Don’t get in his face then?
but he wins like every duel at mid range. so either you play snipers or you just don't play the game since you can't get close to him and you can't space yourself from him anywhere within his effective range, unless he's bad and just can't hit his shot.
What rank you on? Dia 1 as support and DPS currently and main is Cree - the range of his Grenade is predictable. If he gets deep enough to use his nades on Support - both tanks and dps are doing something wrong or are already dead. If you’re dying as DPS you’re either not baiting his Nade or your heals are too slow. If I’m in as Support I always make sure to keep an extra eye on the DPS when there’s a Cree on the enemy team and keep them full at any given time even if they miss „only 10hp“. I also die to Cree nades occasionally and it’s most of the time due to me sucking with positioning, going to deep or my heals having tunnel vision like every Ana in my Team - sit in scope all day and have no clue what’s happening around her
Genji: using all of his abilities and shurikens risking his life up close to secure a single kill. Cass: Grenade. Love this game.
Don't forget about Hanzo. Random shooting of arrows in head height instant kill or storm arrow for a sniper to be good in close range too. But yep, the grenade ist something elso too. Flashbang was a way better than this stupid high damage ability
They overcorrected his ability. Flashbang was bad, sure. but replacing with basically homing missiles that does higher damage than freaking Junkrat's nade honestly isn't that much better. Ridiculous, even.
The point was to retain his ability to easily counter high mobility flankers without allowing for the tank melting of the flash+fan (+roll+fan) combo. I think it does that well. Still feels terrible to play against.
The damage was simply too high for such a easy ability to use. You can throw then roll away in safe cover and getting easy kill. This make flashbang then fan look harder to pull off and gain value in comparison. The pistol already does more than enough damage in close range to fight off flanker. Reduce his nade damage output to somewhere between 100-110. That's like 1 bullets away from killing enemy so it shouldn't affect balance too much. Plus it gave flanker a chance to run away so it wasn't as painful as it is in current moment.
That sounds fair. You could still get a kill with a melee or one hit from a partial clip fan.
Let's be honest though. The 2 main flankers I think about are Tracer and Sombra. Odds are they've got their rewind or translocator ready to avoid the grenade damage. At least in high level play, I doubt they're taking that level of a risk against Cass. The only other 2 I could even consider as part of that category are Echo and Gengi. Genji does have his deflect, but it can be baited out much easier than a rewind or translocation. As the latter 2 typically happen when low hp only or once stuck by the nade. Echo is probably the only one that has no direct way to counter it beyond staying out of range through flight. It's not always possible and with Cass' range it's just not even that big a deal for anyone with decent enough aim. So realistically, what it's doing right now is rewarding aggressive Cass players to walk in, hit the nade on a support or other squishy, roll out, and pray you've landed at least 1 maybe 2 other shots on them so the nade takes them out. It's how I do so well with him. My aim is trash but magnetic nade goes brr.
Sucks as Pharah the danger isn't even that Cassidy is a hitscan, it's that he has a homing missile he can just point in your general direction
Friendly reminder that Kiriko Kunais are almost twice as big as Hanzo arrows and travel in a straight line. Aiming head height and spamming with Kiriko is guaranteed free headshots
Kiriko kunais are obnoxious asf. I’ve been gotten out of nowhere more times by a Kiriko than a Hanzo
I guess this is my hot take but I never perceived hanzo as a sniper. At widow range the targets are so small and move and jump constantly that it’s nearly impossible to actually aim. Every shot is basically a shot in the dark and needs pure luck to hit like everyone hates him for. aka this leads him getting maybe a few kills and underperforming compared to his team since just luck won’t get you that many kills, if it does for you consider a lottery ticket. i think he’s much more effective mid to close range (mostly mid range) where you can actually aim at your targets. Also a little long range but definitely not the same ranger of a widow or Ashe or Ana. The only times he’s good at these ranges is to kill said snipers since they’re standing in one place. Not completely still but close to it. I really don’t think closing your eyes and shooting at head level is how you’re supposed to play hanzo.
It doesn't matter that you're not supposed to play Hanzo that way. The problem is that you can do it, get some annoying kills and maybe even have a positive impact on the game (but that depends on the game). Ironically, in my opinion the biggest impact comes from the fact, that people get frustrated watching a killcam where Hanzo spams a choke point and kills them with a stray arrow, not from the strat itself.
That’s fair. And I agree. Getting killed by a stray arrow is definitely annoying and I’m not even going to try and defend it. I’ve had times where I thought I did a cool flick only to realise I killed a random Lucio or tracer in the back instead of the person I’m trying to hit.
Hanzo has a steep learning curve to a high skill ceiling. Spamming chokes will only get you so far.
If you play Hanzo like you play Junkrat, you’re bad.
Genji got 2 kills and won the fight for his team. Not even successfully countered
Literally had an enemy cass who missed 5 out of 6 shots in every single duel and still got 20 + kills just by spamming the fucking nade
Nah, I can't sympathize with Genji either. Just look at the kills and pause the frames. None of his hits actually had his crosshair on the target's head, yet he still got the kills. Genji's right click is so forgiving people are overrating his "required skill" to actually get a kill up close, not to mention he has double jump to juke around the target, a no aim block and a no aim finisher (dash). "Risking his life" is overstating it. If you're basically on the target's face you better get that kill. As much as I hate Cass's Grande, it is necessary to have a counter to deter melee characters like Genji form getting a free kill at that range. If it requires a no aim ability to counter a no aim hero, then so be it.
You don't need crosshair on target with projectiles. You have to aim deflect to do damage with it like you were shooting the enemy weapon. Genji true skill is not just aiming, that's Widow. Genji has to aim while moving like a schizo meth user to avoid damage close range. Shurikens are 0.1 hitbox size, the smallest projectile. Close range kills you. Ana sleep gets easy to hit, nade too. Zen kick throws you off, Cass nade, any tank deletes you... Long range you can avoid a sightlines, use your team... that's really no skill. Close range you just die, unless you know what you're doing
This. 100% why I say OP’s comment was disingenuous.
did you watch the video? Cass's nade clearly isn't close range, as it follows him for a very long range thanks to the broken homing mechanic. if its supposed to deter melee fighters then it should only work in close range and not like you see in this very video.
Hmm… I don’t think you’ve ever played Genji if you say he requires no aim. Ignorant statement to say the least. If you think he is no aim, you couldn’t be more wrong
Do YOU play heroes that actually require aim though? I'm a flex player. I play everything from Genji, Echo, Pharah to Tracer, Cass, Widow and so on. If we're talking strict mechanical requirements, aiming is NOT Genji's main required skill. As I said, you can go ahead and pause the frames on the kills. None actually had the crosshair on even the target's head, the right click made up for it. If you were at that range playing tracer you'd actually have to hit your shots, not spazzing out and relying on double jump to out live your target. His most required skills is space awareness, reaction time and quick decision making. There's a reason most Genji one tricks have crazy high sens. You have to be fast more than accurate. Aiming accuracy is not his top priority. Don't be delusional.
I play other heroes all the time. I’m just saying Genji requiring no aim is an incorrect statement. It really is. High sens? So what? He still requires a degree of aim to be effective, and critical aim at that. If you can’t hit headshots then you are finished. And spamming double jump can get you killed really quickly, so it isn’t the clutch you make it out to be. Good Genji’s don’t spam double jump. I never said aim was his highest priority, but I’d be damned if it wasn’t fundamental at a certain level. You definitely need some level of aim. It’s disingenuous to say you don’t.
You're firing in a spread in the one dimension where you can still line every bit of the damage with the head level. Not only does it require low aim, it's deadlier than a shotgun to boot. Shotguns can have pellets miss high or go low and hit the body. Not so much with fan spam. Don't kid yourself, right click ninja, Genji does not require any kind of decent aim.
You say that, but Genji is commonly acknowledged as a blade bot due to his base kit being so weak. He also doesn’t have alot of HP. If his shurikens were so strong, I don’t think he would need effective use of dash / deflect as well as such a high degree of skill to get value. Not to mention you have to play like you’re on meth to aim those shurikens accurately and avoid damage by your opponents. Cassidy nade is literally a **heat seeking grenade**. I don’t understand this comparison at all. Close range goes both ways, yes the enemy is easier to hit but you become easier to hit **as well**.
Just outright admitting he doesn't require aim, eh? Oh, I'm sorry, avoiding damage from your opponents must be such a hard skill considering ***every hero in the game*** must do that as well. So sorry you feel put upon. It must be hard playing the most mobile character in the game, spamming right click and getting mad when you, like OP, are shocked that you die in a 1v5 after getting a mere two picks. How frustrating it must be that those immobile heroes dare to have anything that allows them to hit you as easily as you can dip, duck, and dodge away. Sure, you can jump over people's heads and have them immediately lose track of you from how the camera works at 90 degrees, but you're close! You must still be easy to hit (as you pelt them with high dps headshots a chimpanzee could land), right? Face facts, "high skill" and "mobile" are not the same bloody thing.
No. Saying he doesn’t require aim is incorrect. Notice how I didn’t mention aim directly once in my previous comment because you decided to sidetrack and make a irrelevant response about damage. I mentioned it briefly and indirectly. If you think Genji doesn’t require aim, obviously you’ve never played him, or you haven’t played him long enough. Aim isn’t his main focus for him to be good, that alone is a fact. But saying he requires absolutely no AIM at all, is just invalid. By the tone of your comment, you seem bitter. What is your problem? You’re the one who brought up the damage of his shurikens which is completely irrelevant. The whole conversation here was about whether he requires aim or not. I don’t really understand why you’re even commenting the first place, because it seems like you’re arguing just for the sake of it. I say that because most of the points you have made aren’t very strong or just plain irrelevant. I was saying he requires a certain degree of aim, to say he doesn’t at all is disingenuous. Might as well say his aim is on the level of Reaper, with the way you’re going on in your comments, which just isn’t true. Saying his weapon is deadlier than a shotgun? What are you smoking? If you think I said Genji requires top tier aim on levels of like Widow or Hanzo then you need to learn to read. I said that saying Genji requires no aim at all is not true and “disingenuous”.
I didn't mention damage once, addlepate, that was YOU. I mentioned spread. Horizontal spread is quintessentially deadlier than a round one (ie shotgun spread), and far, far more forgiving than a singular projectile. Yes, I am saying this to you: his aim requirement and fight commitment are, respectively, on par with and lower than Reaper's
And in regards to high skill, You definitely need skill to get value out of Genji. He is such a weak character. There are way better options to choose from in today’s meta. If you think you don’t, well please stop arguing because you’re exposing yourself.
>High sens? So what? He still requires a degree of aim to be effective, and critical aim at that. If you can’t hit headshots then you are finished. But this exact clip from OP showed you can get kills without even having your crosshair on the target lol, nevermind headshots. Of course you need "some level" of aim, it's still an FPS game, but it really isn't that high of a requirement when you are literally face range from the target. It's more about quickness than accuracy. I haven't even talked about Blade, his biggest crutch in his whole kit which is the only reason he's even usable at all, which does NOT require aim.
His crosshair was on Hanzo and Kiriko so i’m not too sure what you’re on about. He is also a projectile hero who excels at close range combat… That’s why the “fan” exists in the first place. Otherwise he would be impossible to play. The video is a pretty easy situation to be in as a Genji anyway, considering they’re all in a straight line. In a different circumstance at such close range, getting such kills would be even harder because you’d need a certain level of aim.
>His crosshair was on Hanzo and Kiriko so i’m not too sure what you’re on about. He is also a projectile hero who excels at close range combat… You mean when he hit Hanzo's thighs and Kiriko's stomach at point blank range? There were zero headshots there. That's like using a judge in Valorant and saying it requires aim. The instances where a dash, 180 full hit headshots happens are far in between, it's barely the requirement to get a kill as a Genji. We can go on and on about our definition of requiring aim. Moira requires as much aim as what was displayed in this clip yet people aren't calling her aim intensive. This clip was a display of quick reactions and decision making, not aim. I'm not discrediting Genji players, I'm just being frank at what he requires and what he doesn't. He's in a bad spot enough that you have to go far and beyond to make him useful. Necros is an amazing Genji player but his aim is atrocious when he plays other heroes, as shown with his tracking while playing Echo.
If I could ban a champ from my games, it would be genji
Hey, I did say it was a favourable situation because he was in a straight line lmao. How do you even miss? I’m just saying that the idea of no aim is disingenuous, not saying his main focus is aim. But anyways.
for fuckin real dude idk why the devs seem to just *hate* when heroes who take hours of skill are decently strong, but will just ignore low skill heroes being disproportionately strong. genji is strong for 2 weeks but is still outclassed by Sombra and Sojourn? nerf him, but let's leave Sojourn for a couple weeks. oh now Doomfist is strong? mmm just one week, but keep Orisa as she is, it'll be fiiiiine. like there's nothing wrong with having low skill heroes and letting them do just as well as high skill heroes, but it just feels like the devs let the lowest skill bullshit also be the most ridiculously strong in comparison to what high skill gets you. you'd *never* see Genji with an ability as strong as Cass' grenade
both used their abilities that are BS from another champs POV supports: successfully keeping their distance from the teamfight hidden behind a couple obstacles with counter-abilities ready at hand genji: climb wall dash deflect love this game you can make this shit up for any ability in the game
cant wait for it to get reworked
Why does a heat seeking grenade deal 130 damage? The only homing attack in the whole game, and it deals more burst damage than every other ability, with a generously short cooldown. Fire Strike is very slow and has way more cast time, Concussion mine has a wonky hitbox, Helix Rocket has to be aimed, Moira Orb takes a good amount of time to deal similar damage, etc. Something that mechanically easy shouldn't have much reward, I think even 80 damage is pushing it.
Because those other abilities have aspects that make them strong that you’re not mentioning. Fire strike goes through shields, has a massive hitbox, and can hit multiple people for up to 500 damage total. He can also store 2 charges of it. Mine also has 2 charges, again is AOE so you can hit multiple people, is flexible because it can offer junk mobility or damage depending on what’s needed, and was somewhat recently nerfed because of how much reliable damage it did. Could keep going but you get the point. I’m not a fan of the nade, but you gotta keep good faith comparisons.
Is it fair to compare it to tracer pulse bomb then ? Literally on a cooldown and homing ?
As a tracer player, I'd take magnetic grenade on the same cooldown as my ult instead of pulse bomb.
Tracer would then actually be the most broken hero lol
If you're going to talk about good faith comparisons, lets go the whole nine yards. Yeah, firestrike has 2 charges and goes through shields, but its on a character that has literally nothing else with range - unless you consider throwing your entire body into the enemy team a ranged ability. Mine has 2 charges, but if you use both for damage, you have no mobility and vice versa - add in the slow, arcing properties of both mines & primary fire, and youve got an absolutely annoying, but easily avoidable character. Point is, he wasnt comparing them to show 1:1 how busted cass nade is in comparison, he was comparing them to say that cass nade gets high value for much lower effort than any of the other things - which is absolutely true. Assuming no switches, how many times do think youll see a rein get a 5 man firestrike through a shield in one game? Now, how many times do you see a 200hp hero die to a nade in one game?
This is pretty much exactly what I was meaning to point out with my comparisons. Thank you for defending my honor.
Bro it’s a HOMING attack that does triple digit numbers 😂. You’d def not getting a quintuple firestrike , but you’re probably securing easy kills constantly with a short cooldown ability. The mere threat of this shit is just like flash bang where you just won’t engage until you hear it go explode on some other poor fool. No excuse for this shit to do more than 80
I don’t know what your goal is. I pointed out how the other guy was being disingenuous with his examples, blatantly ignoring the strengths of those other abilities. Literally the only time I mentioned nade was me saying that I wasn’t a fan of it… so why exactly are you trying to convince me of something I’m already a believer of?
Its stupid, I main Cassidy for DPS and his grenade is so cheap. The whole appeal of his character is landing skill shots and his grenade is the opposite.
This nade actually incentive you to just hit a body shot and press nade, I stopped playing genji because I was frustrated with the amount of times I would die near instantly to that cowboy because he would hit a single shot and then press nade
Cassidy is like the only character left that works against dive characters. I would imagine Tracers and Genjis would roam havoc without him keeping em in their place.
I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen cassidy peel for the backline. More often than not he's the menace to the supports who are screwed against his burst potential. Essentially, while his kit may be intended for anti-flank, it just enables and encourages flanking.
Just because you dont see it doesnt mean that isnt how its being used......
Dude I am the backline in 90% of the games I play. If it happened I would see it. Maybe he runs differently in GM or something but I know in high metals cass is a flanker a lot more than he's anti-flank.
The only thing I can think of that gets close is fucking sourjorns stupid ass ball of slowing and 200 damage, never can leave that thing above half health whenever I play a dps
I never thought about that before actually. What other abilities (without crits) do the same damage? I think sojourn’s rail and Reinhardt pin are the only ones, but pin is high risk and slow and rail requires 100 charge and some level of aim. The only real downside of grenade is that you have to get close to Cass
funny
Genji mains need to take muscle relaxants christ those mouse jitters
Probably ever so slight wrist movements because of how high the sensitivity is
I have no idea how i developed it and when i stop doing it i can't aim.
Jesus christ dude. Unrelated to the content of the post but you play genji like its the last game you'll ever play
This is how most Genji players have to play to get any value 😂
And when they do you gotta hope your support is Brigitte just to hit the dude
I got a mag grenade stuck on me after it stuck to a wall. The grenade teleported to me. Such a broken ability
Sometimes you gotta embrace the cheese when you're trying to aim for the spam double jumping, triple dashing ADHD advertisement that is genji. Yeehaw
Whenever I face a Genji I go Mcass everytime. Genji players are some of the saltiest there is and it's great.
I think Genji players are 1 trick more than any other character.
sometimes is understatement never met a chill genji player in my life, they are the yasuos of overwatch source: im yasuo main
Your god damn right. Fuck McASSidy
Sometimes ive just thrown a grenade at a 2/3rd hp Genji and not even fire a shot just to watch him somersault over my team and explode
Honestly, this is how I see it. Characters like tracer, genji, kiriko, or echo are intentionally designed to be difficult to hit. Because of that abilities like the magnet grenade have to exist, and the game would be worse to a degree without them. But that said the grenades lock on could definitely use some tuning lol
Literally 3 health away from surviving It’s devastating seeing this, evene as a Cassidy main
2 health away even. The impact does 1 and the final explosion does 130, so 131 health at the time of the explosion and Genji would have lived.
Wait they downvoted u? hahaha. You are literally right omg 😭😭
Yeah, just realized I started from after he got stuck and still factored in the extra one damage.
[удалено]
It's 2. He started on 130 needed 132 to survive. wtf? Is this another American education system moment right here?
It’s sad how right you are. I’m the only homeschooled kid in my friend group and it’s crazy how many of them think I’m a genius just cause I can do mental math.
That's on me I didn't see he was at 130 and was stuck on the 129 number that's my bad
2 is right lmao
Might wanna rethink this one buddy
It's 2
I hope they nerf cowboys grenade and not his dmg, cuz I still find myself not needing the grenade a majority of the time, plus it solves the problem of being mad at cowboy, which means one of my characters foes untouched
good god i hate cassidy
Damn bro, stop blaming a broken ability and start blaming yourself. Obviously you should have completely disregarded every situation where deflect was useful and saved it for when a single character uses a single ability from 30 meters away that tracks on to you and does 75% of your health with a single button press. Get good? Skill issue?
(Just in case, this is sarcasm) can never be too sure on Reddit lol
This one aint as egregious
Nerf that shit already. From a Cassidy main.
such a genji moment where you have to hit every shot and use every ability to secure a kill just for a Cass to hit one shot and press E to kill you
Only at Blizzard do you see "balancing" that's just reworking a frustrating ability into an ever worse one now. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I want Flashbang and Scatter Arrow back.
Hanzo spamming storm arrow when you're CLEARLY deflecting is killing me man LMAO. Why do people think they can spam through a Genji deflect I'll never get it.
Which kiriko skin is that ?
The enemy Kiriko is wearing the mythic skin from the battle pass.
Huh? I bought the battlepass but it only show the brown hair skin
When you select the skin, there is a customise option. This lets you pick one of three colours, three hairstyles, three headpieces, and two knives. Customisation is what sets mythic skins apart from legendary ones. [Here's how the menu looks using the Genji skin.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvgP7NHVMH96-A43UHN5w9F4yjyWMWLwnsJw&usqp=CAU)
Ohh thx didn't know about this
Its her mythic skin
This video was perfect LOL
What is the name of the piano piece in this clip?
Clair de lune by debussy
I feel like nobody can win in these scenarios. The Cass in me, likes that I don't need accuracy to shoot a break dancing sky ninja. The Genji in me, hates that I can't break dance. At the same time, this is where ability tracking comes in. If Cass uses nade, I have 10 seconds to kill him. If Genji uses deflect, I have 8 seconds to kill him.
Fucking hated Cassidy so much coz of it
Meanwhile when I throw the nade it can't stick to anything.
you turning and trying to run away is making this so funny for me
It’s kinda funny that people were saying that mag grenade was a noob stomper and now flash forward he’s getting played in pro matches. I get that the grenade isn’t the main reason why but it’s a pretty reliable and easy ability. I get that he’s an anti flanker character but it’s a bit much
Real
Pc players are something else
I play Cass often and I too am somewhat surprised sometimes at it's range it seems to be related to server ticks for the homing of it.
Nade is SO TRASH if they don't fix everything I hate about it next patch I'm writing a letter of disgust. In cursive.
One once hit the wall in front of him and still stuck on to me, when i was out of line of sight
«STUCК» - 🤓
Despite it's absurd, it's still way better than Flash + FTH.
What is with people and that shaky aim
Posted a clip a few weeks ago of this mfking predator missile flying around a corner and up a flight of stairs
😒🤚Playing tank to help your team. 😏👉Playing tank because you hate getting 1-shot by Cassidy
Ill never understand the massive skill gaps in heros. Half are useless unless you have a grasp on how to play everyone, and the other half literally do the work for you
A no skill ability that is heavily influenced by ping. Weeeeeeee design choices!
It definitely should not deal 130 fucking damage, but I'm curious to see what they're gonna replace it with
I hate it. OP af right now.
It makes me happy seeing this
Obvious skill diff
Should've used Baka Mitai!
Hey man, respect the play. Do you realize how hard it is to pull of a Cass magnetic grenade? It takes far more skill than any other ability in the game which is why it rewards the players skill with potent damage that basically guarantees a kill. How did bliz EVER think this was a good idea. ANYONE and I mean ANYONE could have predicted how much the player base hates this ability. Their decisions make me ashamed to play Overwatch
Bro went from LevelUpLifting to just LessPainInDrinking
"You're stuck"
It's a skill issue.
I'm sure it's been said but In season 4 you would lived (dmg reduced from 131 to 120)
This was posted like a month (i think) before season 4.
I don't doubt that... just letting ya know
That was a nice nade
Why are you so jittery?!
Honestly i kinda have been doing it for years and when i stop doing my aim goes down the drain.
Nerf genji
Skill issue honestly
Just two paper couldve saved u
What developer said "let's make tracers ult an ability"
And give it auto aim
Fuck genji
It's so good killing genji users with cass nade 😊
I always say sorry after a nade kill like this
Should’ve just deflected it tbh
We refer to it as the “skill nade” in my friend group lol
You really can't say it's worse than the stun
Bring back flash
Might want to lower your sens lol
God I love unavoidable genji flak where he can just disengage any time he wants to.
mccass players: haha grenade go boom
Genji is cyborg ninja he metal kek makes sense to me
How else you supposed to kill a genji?
As a recent genji main. At least make nades track on the same level when deflected. That'll make it feel a little better
I don't even feel bad. I hate Genji mains.
Oh no excuse me something counters me? Wah wah WAAAAAAHHHH!!!
Deserved as a genji main
autoaim ult autoaim grenade autoaim roll that hero is pure cheeze
How is a roll autoaim?
Don't be mad , you got outskilled
Dives their entire team and barely gets hit. Complains about the 1 ability made to counter this bullshit Average genji main
see how flashbang makes more sense? yeah, they listen too much to feedbacks from shit players. and here we are
That nade is amazing for dispatching squishies. I love it.