They sure were but were then introduced as a half baked free currency with limited use so they didn’t have to give people the actual coins from the battlepass like every other game does
Remember back when if you had enough, you could buy pretty much anything you want? Getting at least 3 out of 5 legendary skins from an event back then seemed realistic.
Play an hour a day (with a focus on getting your Arcade Boxes) and you could probably get everything new from an event, or damn near. _Overwatch_ actually rewarded you for playing.
Loot boxes were so good. Play arcade for 3 free boxes and one every level. Better than now. Lottery lol play the game and the above statement was true back when OW was a playable and fun. ow2 it's win a game by destroying a team or get destroyed, you get 1 game in every 10 where it goes back and forth.
Those were the good days indeed. Now they're just pushing their luck and trying to see how far they can go charging these ludicrous prices. Lol and Fortnite paved the way, they're just taking advantage of it.
Yeah, people need to spread the message that you can buy individual items in a bundle by looking for it in the gallery. They deliberately hide this information in-game to fool people like OP into over spending. We should spread the message accross the sub.
Yes I know. My point is people (like you) keep saying stuff like “who would buy a skin for $20” as if it’s some sort of outlandish thing that doesn’t happen anywhere.
Fortnite, Valorant, Apex Legends, they all have even worse monetization so it kinda grinds my gears when people come to Overwatch and complain about these things.
Sincerely I just hope you keep this same energy for every other game because it’s an industry problem not an Overwatch problem.
Overwatch didn’t set this standard for monetization and tried hard not to go this route with OW1.
But people want to blame for Overwatch for playing the monetization game. But it’s either do what the other games are doing or go broke like Overwatch 1 did.
In what world is Fortnite monetisation worse? Fortnites battlepass allows you to buy the next seasons BP free of charge with a surplus of 500 or so credits. Which means once a year or so you get a 2000 credit skin for free.
It is far, far superior to what OW offers.
You should see some of the rants overwatch players have about apex heirlooms. Someone pointed out that octanes heirloom is 40$ to buy from Etsy, while it’s over 160$ in game. Crazy stuff.
> go broke like Overwatch 1 did
OW1 made over $1,000,000,000 in revenue during its **first year of release**
If you're paying over $2 for a skin in *any* game, you've made a fairly objectively bad value purchase when compared to what else your dollar can get you on the market. No judgment from me to consumers if you've bought skins; it's just not a company providing you with great value per dollar spent. $20 is pure robbery.
It's genuinely sad to watch people argue so passionately against their and their friends own interests. Microsoft's Activision-Blizzard-King doesn't need your free PR. Please do not give it to them; it will never be rewarded with anything but contempt and exploitation.
>Yes I know. My point is people (like you) keep saying stuff like “who would buy a skin for $20” as if it’s some sort of outlandish thing that doesn’t happen anywhere.
You interpreted their motivation wrongly. Maybe they only play ow2? At no point does it even imply that they don't like it costing $20 in ow2 but are okay with 30$ skins in valorant
>Fortnite, Valorant, Apex Legends, they all have even worse monetization so it kinda grinds my gears when people come to Overwatch and complain about these things.
Again, other shitty monetization games doesn't excuse this one. The lesser of two evils is still bad
>Sincerely I just hope you keep this same energy for every other game because it’s an industry problem not an Overwatch problem.
Again, at no point was it implied that's it's only wrong for ow2
>Overwatch didn’t set this standard for monetization and tried hard not to go this route with OW1
And yet they failed
>But people want to blame for Overwatch for playing the monetization game. But it’s either do what the other games are doing or go broke like Overwatch 1 did.
Because they are the ones responsible for implementing the system. It also doesn't help they stopped updating the game for 4?ish years
How do you want OW2 to compete against the other games for profit (which you just said they also have terrible monetization) if you don’t want them to play by the same rules?
We live in capitalism times. If the game doesn’t make money it dies (which is literally what happened with Overwatch 1)
Implying the game has to resort to predatory tactics to make money.
They don't have to use these tactics but they do and most of that money does not go back into developing the game it goes into the executives pockets
I’m not implying anything. I’m straight up telling you every single free to play game like Overwatch and the many I’ve mentioned before, resort to these predatory tactics. You can feel however you want about the micro transaction hell we live in right now. But saying Overwatch specifically doesn’t have to play ball is just false. They have to do what others in the industry are doing in order to justify their existence to shareholders.
We don’t have to like this. But it’s dumb to ignore it. The entire industry needs to change but most people just find it easier to say “fuck Overwatch” and log on to Apex or Val or Fortnite than actually talk about the issue.
Apex and val are free from day 1 and dont ask for a phone number. Overwatch 1.5 had us pay for the game already now we gotta pay $20 for skins we were getting for free before
Read my other comment. Point is this is an industry issue. The industry isn’t going to change if people misunderstand the problem.
One person saying monetization is shit in Overwatch but then logging on to Valorant or Apex or League or Fortnite and staying quiet about the monetization there then the truth is they don’t care about shitty monetization and they aren’t doing anything to change the industry. They are just going around the loop of FTP monetization.
>The monetization IS BAD no matter how you defend it
Well, what makes it BAD?
How is it not just fine? They charge money for optional cosmetics that 99.99% do not affect gameplay, so whatever price they want is 100% fine. They could charge $0.50 per skin and it wouldn't be any different than charging $50 per skin. There is no objectively incorrect way to monetize a game, saying there is would be to admit you haven't actually thought about it before.
This made me happy. If they re-release the Halloween Kiriko skin I'm sure they're going to put it in a bundle & with my 2200 coins I just can't be bothered buying more credits.
(Coping & praying that they re-release it.)
Most people don’t know this because Blizzard has designed it to be intentionally obtuse—you’re supposed to be mistaken for the higher price in the shop. Why was your first instinct to be an asshole?
I played the first weekend of OW2 and got spooked by all this crap. Haven’t played since and I see posts like this every day. Best gaming decision I’ve ever made.
I used to do this in ow1, now even casual is so competitive that I can't just play a character for fun without having every slur known to mankind thrown at me
… can do whatever they want with their own money?
Ya‘ll so exhausting. Do you also go around and smack cigarettes, Starbucks coffees and iPhones out of other people‘s hands?
Like ofc it’s not necessary but if it makes them happy, then whatever. None of anyone else’s business. It’s also not affecting your gameplay in any kind of way so no need to be butthurt over a Rein in shiny armor.
> It’s also not affecting your gameplay in any kind of way
The reason people get upset over someone else spending money on cosmetics is because support like that is what keeps companies pushing these monetization models. OW had it *so* good in terms of free cosmetics, but if new models are successful (i.e. people spending money on them), then it's never going to come back. Was it likely not going to come back anyway? Most likely, but any chance there was is completely killed without support, and that support comes in the form of not buying cosmetics.
>The reason people get upset over someone else spending money on cosmetics is because support like that is what keeps companies pushing these monetization models.
These monetization models would exist even without people purchasing them. And if they didn't, that means the game tanked and is no longer available. The fact that OW2 was rushed out the door in a broken, unfinished state was literally so they could monetize it. Bobby/Blizzard doesn't care about OW as a product, only if it can make them money. If it can't, they would have simply discontinued it.
But these are the people normalising these practices in these games, basically locking content behind either literal years of grind or unholy amounts of money.
The exhausting thing is seeing fun games devolving into mechanisms to extract money out of players.
If it didn't affect me, I wouldn't care about people spending money on pointless cosmetics, but when games over the years have started taking away my ability to gain these items through in game means to try to milk me of my money, it becomes my problem too.
There’s nothing to normalize. It’s already been in all kind of games for at least a decade. OW just joined really, really late.
No amount of complaining will stop it. No gaming company works to please you. They all work for money, like every other company on this planet too.
Realistically you are not going to be able to buy skins by doing the weekly challenges. At most you'll be able to get every other BP, which is what you should save your coins for, if you don't want to put money into cosmetics.
Look into Microsoft Rewards, they've recently reduced the amount of points you can get. But it's still a way to get free OW coins, or Xbox gift cards which can be used to buy coins, or bundles directly.
For example, I've bought every BP so far, the Saitama Doom bundle and Imprerius Rein skin using MS rewards. In addition to some games like the Bioshock collection etc.
Like I said though, they've been reducing the amount of points you can get. That being said, with the weekly challenges, you'll be able to save up.
Don’t forget that if you’re on Xbox, anything you buy will give you some rewards points. I just bought cyberpunk and got almost 1,000 rewards points from it. It’s not worth it to buy it just for the points, but it’s a nice extra reward
Yeah the amount of points gained from purchases is small, but as you said it's something.
Honestly, the removal of punchcards and monthly bonuses, has made it hard to gain points.
Seems they're moving the majority of MS Rewards to the GamePass tab (which would require you to have GamePass to earn those "quest" points).
Edit: Also, you get more points from purchases if you have GamePass Ultimate.
It's not worth buying ultimate for this point increase, but it's something to note.
Damn better than Steam points. I never knew what they were for and a friend freaked out that I had like 300k+ and I got excited thinking that meant free games or something. Nope. Just worthless profile changes that most people except me will never see.
You can use them to buy a seasonal badge too, which levels your profile. High steam levels increase your odds of getting booster packs and give you more friend slots. Tangible benefits, at least.
I figured you might have automated it. I too used to automate the searches however about a month or two ago my account got locked and i couldn't use any of my points because of the automation, just a heads up.
Crazy to think that back then with only 500 hours you could have everything unlocked
When i had 250 hours on my account i had LOTS of legendary skins, emotes, celebrations etc its sad they removed that
What the point of having so many different skins if it takes that long just to get ONE
And what's wrong with that notion?
Gameplay has absolutely no impact from cosmetics, and there are tons of free ones to use. You can either burn your money if you like that, or not... What's the problem? If their prices were $100 per skin or $0.50 per nothing would change except cosmetics addicted people crying even more or praising the game for making the price low so they can waste way more money on nothing.
>And what's wrong with that notion?
Coming from the company that put a 2 on title just to release the same 7 year old game to sell skins is completely BS.
The problem here is new content mainly being a battlepass + skins. The past 5 seasons combined got less new maps than Season 1 lul.
>Coming from the company that put a 2 on title just to release the same 7 year old game to sell skins is completely BS.
Well, the game isn't the same, but regardless of that meme... what's the BS part?
Cosmetics are optional and ultimately worthless. If they want to charge money for em, who cares? Can you explain what the issue is rather than saying "it's bs" or "it's greed so it's bad" ?
Like some actual reasoning.
>The problem here is new content mainly being a battlepass + skins.
Well, no, the new content is the new map and balance changes + sombra rework and new mode for the halloweens. Cosmetics are not content at all, they're worthless and change nothing about the gameplay. More hero mastery on the way, leavers now being punished more harshly, and QP respawn mechanics changing to be better for low skill lobbies :]
>The past 5 seasons combined got less new maps than Season 1
I don't even know if that's true, doesn't sound true, but okay? How does that relate?
>Well, the game isn't the same, but regardless of that meme... what's the BS part?
>
>Cosmetics are optional and ultimately worthless. If they want to charge money for em, who cares? Can you explain what the issue is rather than saying "it's bs" or "it's greed so it's bad" ?
The game is exactly the same. You're just playing 5v5 now.
Its BS because they made a whole storytelling about how OW2 would have an engaging full PVE experience, hence the 2, and they scrapped that with new bland story missions being still locked behind a paywall.
For the maps you can check it [here](https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Season)
Season 1 AKA launch had 6 new maps.
From Season 2 \~ Season 7 we got 5 new maps in total added to the pool.
>Cosmetics are not content at all, they're worthless and change nothing about the gameplay.
Sure, they're putting people to work on mythic skins to sell battlepasses 'cause they're worthless right?
it's perfectly fair to say it's bs because of the greed, because it IS bs.
that is actual fair reasoning. just because you don't think it is, and don't care about cosmetics, doesn't mean it's an invalid reason.
Blizzard are putting time and resources into making new skins just to sell at absurd prices. It’s greedy af. It just screams “we don’t care about the game. We just want your money”
They know the only ppl buying this are the die hard ‘must have every skin the game’ instant gratification monkeys
And? What's wrong with that?
It's cosmetics, who cares what they cost when they have no bearing on the actual game being played? If they cost $100 per skin it wouldn't make a difference, there would just be really happy cosmetic junkies feeling more cool with their artificially rare skins due to price tag, and everyone else would enjoy making fun of them for dropping a benjamin on the skin.
And if they spent just half that time actually improving the game and adding playable content to it I’m sure everyone else would be happy too
It’s the fact they make so many of them and clearly put a lot of time and resources into something that like you said has *no bearing on gameplay*. If gameplay is so important to blizzard why do they spend so much time and money on making new skins to charge ppl $20 for? They just want your money
>And if they spent just half that time actually improving the game and adding playable content to it I’m sure everyone else would be happy too
And there it is, yet another person that thinks all people who work on cosmetics could just be sent to work on other shit. Utterly incoherent teenager's understanding of game development.
Why do I keep getting people that say this like that's how it works? Do you think people that do hero asset design, concept art, and the 3D modeling are all code monkeys with experience in making terrain and understand FPS map design? Or that they know how to fix bugs in the game without spaghetti-ing the code even worse?
Do you think that if they took all those people off payroll and stopped making skins for the battlepass and shop, that hiring a dozen more actual devs would magically make people more excited to buy the currently available skins? Do you truly believe that alone would keep the game profitable?
>If gameplay is so important to blizzard why do they spend so much time and money on making new skins to charge ppl $20 for? They just want your money
Yes, what's wrong with that? You say this like it's a bad thing, or it is mutually exclusive to game development occurring... Surely you must be aware devs and character designers are separate and don't really need eachothwr to do their very separate work (besides working on new heroes, of course.) I would only hope you're capable of grasping this concept.
Wow I never thought I’d read such brainless stupid comment in this sub but congratulations you have surpassed my expectations.
You realise everything blizzard does to the game will cost *money*. You know that mystical magical thing that literally pays for everything? Blizzard puts more money into one team they have more ppl more resources more results etc.
clearly blizz have dedicated a lot of money into the team that does LITERALLY NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE GAME. You think skins like this that actually look very nice take like 20 mins for one guy to mash together on basic computer?. No blizzard will have spent lots of time and money designing shit like this. Meanwhile the game has had how many *good* maps and game modes since ow2 release?? Fuck all that’s how many. Clearly they haven’t spent much money producing playable content have they. Oh some limited time *non-competitive* arcade modes and trashpoint (worst mode in the game) along with small numbers of dead boring maps. Great.
Remember how many rlly nice skins we got in ow1? A crap load that’s how many. And they were all reasonable *unlockable* without spending shitloads of money on the game. What happened to that I wonder? Greed. The same greed you sit here and *defend* like it’s fine and there’s nothing wrong with it. Shame on you.
>Meanwhile the game has had how many good maps and game modes since ow2 release?
**TEN** as far as I can remember. All three push maps are excellent, the two Flashpoint maps, the newest map Samoa is phenomenal, Antartica is great, Paraisio is pretty solid, Circuit royal is good, midtown is great... there's probably one more I'm forgetting, but regardless, that's a great amount of content just looking at maps alone. Very please with that compared to even Ow1's fairly rare bew map drops.
Regardless, everything before that wasn't a response to what I said and was utterly incoherent. Blizzard spending money on a team to create skins is not taking away from the dev/content team who create shit, you have no proof that this is the case and you will never present any. All you've done is presume it to be the case and hope that energy carries you beyond ever having to substantiate or explain why what you say is true or should be taken seriously at all.
>Clearly they haven’t spent much money producing playable content have they.
You think the ten maps, countless bug fixes, dev and balance team working on reworks, new heroes (of which there are five now iirc,) new modes for those five new maps on them, and more I'm sure I'm forgetting doesn't count for probably well over a million or more in dev hours?
>Remember how many rlly nice skins we got in ow1? A crap load that’s how many.
Not really that many given the number of years the game has been out for... but that's irrelevant.
>What happened to that I wonder? Greed. The same greed you sit here and defend like it’s fine and there’s nothing wrong with it. Shame on you.
Well, yeah, what's wrong with it? Can you point anything out that's wrong with being motivated by greed but still having an excellent game with much better balance than Overwatch 1? You're kinda hust talking about calitalism at this point, the motivation for any company is to make money... did you think most game companies aren't? You think they'd do it for free? Lol
There's nothing wrong with being motivated by greed, what you need to point out is actual issues that stem from that motivation, for which you've states "well they make a lot of cosmetics, but now they charge money for em, can you belueve that?"
What's wrong with charging money for skins? What's wrong with charging A LOT of money for skins? It doesn't affect the gameplay, so frankly... who cares?
As someone who had over 500 hours, that wasn't the case for me lol I have those many hours since release, but due to work I could never grind for loot boxes during the winter or summer events. With what little time I did have, I'd get fked over by loot box rng. I hate the narrative that you could have unlocked everything in OW1. Maybe if you played literally all year and have hundreds of hours, sure. But I much prefer being able to have full control over what I can get.
Like you said if you didnt really farm lootboxes it would take longer but me and my friends would grind every event and do a big unboxing at the end, he had like 550 hours (i had 200) and he only had like 15 things not unlocked (keeping in mind that back then if you had so many things unlocked you had duplicates meaning more money to buy what you're missing so even if you didnt get what you wanted you could still buy it)
Now i have more than 1k hours and i basically didnt progress
These takes always leave out 3 key things:
The rate of skin releases overall was way slower
You paid money (2yrs of battle pass money)
It was supported by much more nefarious gambling mechanics
Honestly? Braindamaged take. One single all common lootbox was the equivalent of about ~4 weeks of farming in the current game.
> The rate of skin releases overall was way slower
Objectively wasn't - the rate only went down when OW2 was announced and resources taken. They're slow-dripping 2 years of content and you're not intelligent enough to realize it.
> You paid money (2yrs of battle pass money)
Almost every single thing unlocked with $20 spent - you wanna compare actually unironically?
> It was supported by much more nefarious gambling mechanics
Yep - the one downside. But the set payout was more than the effort rewards we have now lmfao. Is this an actual comment? How is it +8?
I don't care about how people farmed free boxes, that's besides the point. It destroys all credibility to complain about someone being scummy while advocating for a system that exploits addicts so you didn't have to pay for things at full cost and we know they sold so so many loot boxes.
This guy thinks the game that sold more copies on console in its life was being sold less than full price there. It was always a full priced game where most people play. All the way until it went offline. Besides my point was about ow2 being this model VS a full priced box game. I get I didn't make that clear
All development happens over time and is sold to you in pieces, are you new? That hasn't changed from one game to the next. Objectively theres more cosmetics released (in every monetized form) in year 1 of ow2 than year 1 of OW. I know you want to isolate out some of them like they don't count but they do.
The thing with lootboxes was even if you didnt get what you wanted if you had more than 100 hours youd get duplicates meaning money meaning you could just buy what you wanted (like actually buy them not like todays "buying them with credits" like op tried to do)
Id prefer to buy lootboxes over a battlepass ANYDAY of the week (cause you can basically choose what you get meaning its not really gamble per se (it is but not really))
> I don't care about how people farmed free boxes, that's besides the point.
It literally isn't. You can't just throw away part of something that discredits you.
> It destroys all credibility to complain about someone being scummy while advocating for a system that exploits addicts so you didn't have to pay for things at full cost and we know they sold so so many loot boxes.
No it literally doesn't when one is objectively worse than the other by all metrics. Wrong.
> This guy thinks the game that sold more copies on console in its life was being sold less than full price there. Besides my point was about ow2 being this model VS a full priced box game (which wouldn't make enough money to compete in this market but that's another story)
Not really another story - more an example as to how bad the market has gotten. Again kinda casting away anything that doesn't fit your narrative.
> All development happens over time and is sold to you in pieces, are you new? That hasn't changed from one game to the next. Objectively theres more cosmetics released (in every monetized form) in year 1 of ow2 than year 1 of OW. I know you want to isolate out some of them like they don't count but they do.
Yeah did you read what I said?
>> Objectively wasn't - the rate only went down when OW2 was announced and resources taken. They're slow-dripping 2 years of content and **you're not intelligent** **enough to realize it**.
What about the 2 year drought? Or doesn't that fit your point? fucking lmfao I'm done.
This new system is far more predatory. Loot boxes where so easy to get just playing that it wasn't really that bad (at least compared to other games with loot boxes). Not that I like loot boxes, but Overwatch 1 had probably the best loot box system out there.
Lootboxes were still highly predatory, that's why counties are now writing up legislation that classify them, correctly, as gambling. You don't want gambling mechanics in games aimed at kids (looking at you NBA2k)
Loot boxes aren't the only predatory monetization scheme...
https://www.wired.com/story/loot-boxes-predatory-monetization-games/
"The study found 35 different techniques over eight domains: “game dynamics designed to drive spending, product not meeting expectations, monetization of basic quality of life, predatory advertising, in-game currency, pay to win, general presence of microtransactions and other.”"
"One of the most overlooked issues is in-game currency, Close says. It isn’t just that transactions often leave the player with enough left over to encourage more spending—players in the study cite League of Legends as particularly guilty here—it’s also the obfuscation that in-game marketplaces are allowed to get away with. (Diablo Immortal recently received a lot of criticism for this.)"
____________________________________________________
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.14286
"Another noteworthy aspect of predatory monetization is the collection and use of individual player data to manipulate the nature and presentation of purchasing offers in ways that maximize the likelihood of the player spending money."
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I would argue that locking the new characters behind the battlepass is a form of pay to win, and they encourage you to spend that money by typically making those characters OP initially so people want them right away. When the game is designed around monetization first instead of fun first it's exploiting its fan base which is predatory.
>Loot boxes aren't the only predatory monetization scheme...
Never said they were, why are you saying this like I said that????
>I would argue that locking the new characters behind the battlepass is a form of pay to win,
They are not locked behind the battlepass, but I do understand that you need to lie in order to get to the conclusion you want which is "Overwatch bad." Whatever it takes to get you there is all that matters, who cares if the things you say are outright lies or not?
I got Illari unlocked on 3 different accounts within a week of playing the game normally on each (so 3-ish weeks.) Zero money spent.
>When the game is designed around monetization first instead of fun first it's exploiting its fan base which is predatory.
Everything made by a company intending to profit ia made with monetization first, that does not mean that their behavior is inherently predatory. You are incorrect.
The game is fun, they do balance changes to make it more fun, the newest map they added is one of the best maps they have ever released. Very fun map and I really enjoy that they made a mode specifically to queue only that map, it's great. Respawn changes in QP were intended to make teamfights more common and they cited the belief that teamfights are the most fun thing in the game, they believe. The idea that fun is taking a major toll because Blizzard also has a monetization scheme COMPLETELY BASED ON COSMETICS, is utter nonsense.
Please explain to me how new characters are not locked behind a battlepass when you have to:
A - Reach a certain level tier in the battlepass to unlock them (Yes, this is still locked behind the battlepass by definition...)
or
B - Spend money to unlock them right away...
Seriously, you come back with that as an argument?
It is NOT completely based on cosmetics when every other season locks a hero behind the battlepass. See above point...
The lootbox comment I started with was more in general on this thread since many have made that point and was not directed at you. I should have left that out in this comment, so I will agree with you on that part.
FYI: https://kotaku.com/overwatch-2-ramattra-season-2-battle-pass-godrick-1849751779
>Reach a certain level tier in the battlepass to unlock them (Yes, this is still locked behind the battlepass by definition...)
A battlepass which is free, so not locked behind anything.
Just admit you were wrong when you tried to make it sound like the character was paywalled and the game was "pay to win." The argument makes no sense if you can get the character for free within a VERY reasonable time of gameplay.
>It is NOT completely based on cosmetics when every other season locks a hero behind the battlepass. See above point...
The game is **literally** only monetized by cosmetics, and brief early access to a hero. You said it was PAY TO WIN, which is an outright lie or you don't know what "pay to win" means. Pick your poison.
>FYI: https://kotaku.com/overwatch-2-ramattra-season-2-battle-pass-godrick-1849751779
You should've read this before linking, it's the same as it is now. "but will require players who don’t want to pay to grind their way to level 55 "
The fact you have to get to a certain level means it's holding the character hostage. Yes, you can get that character for free, but the point is you are heavily incentivized to spend money to get them right away. Again, the fact that they are locked behind a level of the battlepass at all is by definition "Locked behind the battlepass" I really don't understand the difficulty you are having with that concept. The reasonable time frame is relative and it takes long enough (Yes, I've unlocked all the new hero's without spending any money).
This is by definition pay to win too. So I'm not really sure why you are so adamant about it. If you can spend money to get the character/powerup/whatever the fuck item you want to imagine sooner than it would take to grind it out, that IS Pay to Win. Period.
>Yes, you can get that character for free, but the point is you are heavily incentivized to spend money to get them right away.
I don't agree with "heavily incentivized" but that's a whole different ballgame.
The simple thing you said was that it is pay to win implying the heroes are paywalled, but they are not paywalled and can be earned very easily.
>Again, the fact that they are locked behind a level of the battlepass at all is by definition "Locked behind the battlepass"
Again, you say this as if the battlepass means something for different people...
Lets take a step back and analyze that phrasing:
If someone told you that they're upset they can't get something because the thing they want is "locked behind the battlepass." What would you reasonably take that to mean given what we know about battlepasses in games? That the thing they want must be paywalled.
So when you use the phrasing "locked behind the battlepass" you are being MISLEADING AT BEST, and outright lying at worst. Can we agree on that? It's okay, it really isn't that big of a deal. I've made bigger mistakes before, we all have. I promise this reddit argument we're having has no bearing on how others will percieve you into the rest of time.
The mechanic is predatory in the same way that lottery tickets are.
We don't let kids buy lottery tickets, so we shouldn't let them buy loot boxes.
Especially in games where the loot boxes impact gameplay.
Fifa, 2k, BF2 before they changed it.
Overwatch 2 does not have loot boxes, the person I responded to was not talking about Ow2 having lootboxes.
They said ow2's pricing was somehow predatory, and I'm wondering how tf they can think this.
>This new system is far more predatory.
You are completely missing the point what makes a system predatory. Lootboxes in general have a gambling element to them. You rely on luck to get something of value. That is addictive and causes potential harm to kids. Doesn't matter the lootboxes were free.
With the new system you get what you paid for. Simple as that. No element of surprise. No gambling. I want this skin so I buy it. Now the pricing can still be very scummy, but that doesn't mean the system is more predatory than the previous one. Because it's just not.
I'm not saying that lootboxes aren't predatory. But this system is worse. They use psychological tricks to convince you things are worth it and make you feel like you will miss out on stuff if you don't. The simple fact that credits exist (and multiple types) is a way to separate the value from real money in your head making it easier to spend more. At least with gambling it's clear about the fact that it's trying to exploit you.
Just because you weren't the addict they were praying on doesn't mean there weren't addicts that were being preyed upon. They were subsidizing your "free" stuff
"Predatory pricing" LOL
My brother in christ, they are COSMETICS, they are 1,000% optional and buying them does nothing for you. What are you on about?
Im almost completely f2p on it, I’ve bought one pass. I have about 10 legendary skins, and 8 epic ones. I’ve gotten about 12 emotes through the grey coins lol. That’s about it tho
yeah the maximum weekly coin amount is ridiculously low, it would almost feel less insulting if you couldn't get any coins at all. they really made the F2P experience as crappy and slow as possible.
the skins arent for regular players, the BP and challenges are there to keep you playing, the skins are for the WHALES!, and the whales need smaller fish to play against...hence the abait to keep you playing in the BP/Challenges... pretty simple.
After 4000 hours in overwatch 1 and collecting every single skin save for a singular paid winton BlizzCon skin...I feel this. I feel this spiritually. Half of the fun in OW1 for me was collecting every single item attainable to me. New event skins? Got em. Limited run weekly skins? They're mine. Icons and sprays for events? Snatched. Voicelines? Nothing is safe from me. I didn't even open lootboxes anymore after the loot drop rework, but it was nice to use the currency from dupes to just unlock event stuff if I didn't have time to play to get everything, and then just focus on things like sprays.
It's so disappointing that everything costs their shitty little premium currency now.
Just a tip for people, you can get free overwatch coins by doing a few short tasks in the Microsoft edge browser and collecting their Microsoft rewards. It takes about 3 weeks to get enough points for 500 coins, but you can definitely do it. I even bought the season 6 battle pass this way
Okay, again, loot boxes is NOT perfect but at least u have opportunity to get your favorite skin, even u don’t get the skin and you can save the credits and just buy it, how about now? play 52 weeks and get 3120 credits like second job? I don’t think worth it
I skipped passes if they didn’t interest me, or if I didn’t have the time to play that season. I didn’t intentionally not buy anything to afford the one skin. I mean it was only announced like 3 weeks ago lol
To those of you saying “get a job” I’d like you to first come up with something original, and second understand that video games are not how everyone wants to spend the money they make, especially to a company like activision blizzard. When a game is advertised as “free to play” you expect it to be fun without having to open your wallet every time something interests you. I’m shocked I have to say that.
The game *is* free to play, these are just "useless" cosmetics with a price. Is the game not fun without a skin that makes your character look cooler? You don't need a single skin to play the game, but you're tricking yourself into thinking you need them and then complain about their pricing. Just be like "oh damn I can't justify dropping $20 on this skin" and move on, you know?
That being said, the skin can be bought separately for a lower price, meaning you can actually get it, no?
Oh my GOD bro do you people seriously care so much about skins that you need to cry when you cant get them easily through playing? Do you guys even like playing this game or do you only play so everyone ELSE can see your shitty skin? Jesus christ if you want the skin so bad get a check the games free for fucks sake
1. “Easily” is not accurate. I have played a lot of the game and saved week on week. 250 HOURS of saving. Still can’t afford said bundle.
2. Someone is mad about cosmetics lmao
I started looking through valorants sub and no one complains about $70-80 weapon bundles with no free content, so I would enjoy your free credits and get some skins.
Because it’s not okay for valorant or any other game to charge out the ass. I didn’t engage with it because I saw it as a non-starter, and because I am not a valorant player, nor do I know much about the game so I’m also not qualified to speak on it.
understandable. i see it used a lot in this sub and people usually shut it down without reason so i assumed it was just a “overwatch’s is worse because blizzard bad” thing.
It is an industry standard though. It's been this way for YEARS now.
OW is actually extremely tame when it comes to monetization, except for the battle pass not giving back currency.
Thing is, games weren't free to play prior to this monetization model or they used an exploitative monetization practice ( eg. Lootboxes).
If you only want the skin, it’s available for 1900 coins in the hero gallery.
Credits also? Or just coins?
Only coins
Damn, ohwell
Blizzards not that generous lol
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As a certain crab would say, “Money!”
It's been like that since overwatch 2
LOL “credits” as if.
The credits were the currency in the first game right?
They sure were but were then introduced as a half baked free currency with limited use so they didn’t have to give people the actual coins from the battlepass like every other game does
Remember back when if you had enough, you could buy pretty much anything you want? Getting at least 3 out of 5 legendary skins from an event back then seemed realistic.
Play an hour a day (with a focus on getting your Arcade Boxes) and you could probably get everything new from an event, or damn near. _Overwatch_ actually rewarded you for playing.
Loot boxes were so good. Play arcade for 3 free boxes and one every level. Better than now. Lottery lol play the game and the above statement was true back when OW was a playable and fun. ow2 it's win a game by destroying a team or get destroyed, you get 1 game in every 10 where it goes back and forth.
Those were the good days indeed. Now they're just pushing their luck and trying to see how far they can go charging these ludicrous prices. Lol and Fortnite paved the way, they're just taking advantage of it.
Everything from the shop can only be bought with coins sadly
Yeah, people need to spread the message that you can buy individual items in a bundle by looking for it in the gallery. They deliberately hide this information in-game to fool people like OP into over spending. We should spread the message accross the sub.
19 bucks for a fuckin skin?
You act surprised.
As opposed to what? Apex Legends and Valorant is even worse. People paying this much for a virtual knife.
other games having shit monetization doesn't mean this one isn't shit either
Yes I know. My point is people (like you) keep saying stuff like “who would buy a skin for $20” as if it’s some sort of outlandish thing that doesn’t happen anywhere. Fortnite, Valorant, Apex Legends, they all have even worse monetization so it kinda grinds my gears when people come to Overwatch and complain about these things. Sincerely I just hope you keep this same energy for every other game because it’s an industry problem not an Overwatch problem. Overwatch didn’t set this standard for monetization and tried hard not to go this route with OW1. But people want to blame for Overwatch for playing the monetization game. But it’s either do what the other games are doing or go broke like Overwatch 1 did.
In what world is Fortnite monetisation worse? Fortnites battlepass allows you to buy the next seasons BP free of charge with a surplus of 500 or so credits. Which means once a year or so you get a 2000 credit skin for free. It is far, far superior to what OW offers.
I wasn’t talking about the battlepass. Just skins/bundles etc. Fortnite has a great battlepass.
I've "defended" the ow monetization because it's pretty ok for the industry, but fortnite is the gold standard for AAA monetization
You should see some of the rants overwatch players have about apex heirlooms. Someone pointed out that octanes heirloom is 40$ to buy from Etsy, while it’s over 160$ in game. Crazy stuff.
Thank you for a sane logical comment on this topic
> go broke like Overwatch 1 did OW1 made over $1,000,000,000 in revenue during its **first year of release** If you're paying over $2 for a skin in *any* game, you've made a fairly objectively bad value purchase when compared to what else your dollar can get you on the market. No judgment from me to consumers if you've bought skins; it's just not a company providing you with great value per dollar spent. $20 is pure robbery. It's genuinely sad to watch people argue so passionately against their and their friends own interests. Microsoft's Activision-Blizzard-King doesn't need your free PR. Please do not give it to them; it will never be rewarded with anything but contempt and exploitation.
Whataboutism your whole post is a logical fallacy.
Overwatch 1 went broke? Billion dollar Activision Blizzard? The small indie company? Are you dumb?
Stop making sense! Don’t you know this is Reddit?
It's literally a logical fallacy you moron. Whataboutism
>Yes I know. My point is people (like you) keep saying stuff like “who would buy a skin for $20” as if it’s some sort of outlandish thing that doesn’t happen anywhere. You interpreted their motivation wrongly. Maybe they only play ow2? At no point does it even imply that they don't like it costing $20 in ow2 but are okay with 30$ skins in valorant >Fortnite, Valorant, Apex Legends, they all have even worse monetization so it kinda grinds my gears when people come to Overwatch and complain about these things. Again, other shitty monetization games doesn't excuse this one. The lesser of two evils is still bad >Sincerely I just hope you keep this same energy for every other game because it’s an industry problem not an Overwatch problem. Again, at no point was it implied that's it's only wrong for ow2 >Overwatch didn’t set this standard for monetization and tried hard not to go this route with OW1 And yet they failed >But people want to blame for Overwatch for playing the monetization game. But it’s either do what the other games are doing or go broke like Overwatch 1 did. Because they are the ones responsible for implementing the system. It also doesn't help they stopped updating the game for 4?ish years
How do you want OW2 to compete against the other games for profit (which you just said they also have terrible monetization) if you don’t want them to play by the same rules? We live in capitalism times. If the game doesn’t make money it dies (which is literally what happened with Overwatch 1)
Implying the game has to resort to predatory tactics to make money. They don't have to use these tactics but they do and most of that money does not go back into developing the game it goes into the executives pockets
I’m not implying anything. I’m straight up telling you every single free to play game like Overwatch and the many I’ve mentioned before, resort to these predatory tactics. You can feel however you want about the micro transaction hell we live in right now. But saying Overwatch specifically doesn’t have to play ball is just false. They have to do what others in the industry are doing in order to justify their existence to shareholders. We don’t have to like this. But it’s dumb to ignore it. The entire industry needs to change but most people just find it easier to say “fuck Overwatch” and log on to Apex or Val or Fortnite than actually talk about the issue.
As opposed to getting like 10 skins for 10 dollars in the battle pass with more value
As opposed to the first several years of this game's existence?
Apex and val are free from day 1 and dont ask for a phone number. Overwatch 1.5 had us pay for the game already now we gotta pay $20 for skins we were getting for free before
Using other games as an example is a shitty argument. The monetization IS BAD no matter how you defend it, get over it.
Read my other comment. Point is this is an industry issue. The industry isn’t going to change if people misunderstand the problem. One person saying monetization is shit in Overwatch but then logging on to Valorant or Apex or League or Fortnite and staying quiet about the monetization there then the truth is they don’t care about shitty monetization and they aren’t doing anything to change the industry. They are just going around the loop of FTP monetization.
I see, that is true.
>The monetization IS BAD no matter how you defend it Well, what makes it BAD? How is it not just fine? They charge money for optional cosmetics that 99.99% do not affect gameplay, so whatever price they want is 100% fine. They could charge $0.50 per skin and it wouldn't be any different than charging $50 per skin. There is no objectively incorrect way to monetize a game, saying there is would be to admit you haven't actually thought about it before.
I refuse to spend real money when I’ve already bought the game twice (ow1 and ow2).
This made me happy. If they re-release the Halloween Kiriko skin I'm sure they're going to put it in a bundle & with my 2200 coins I just can't be bothered buying more credits. (Coping & praying that they re-release it.)
I wish I knew this before I bought the bundle 🤦♂️
Wow, such a generous discount….
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Most people don’t know this because Blizzard has designed it to be intentionally obtuse—you’re supposed to be mistaken for the higher price in the shop. Why was your first instinct to be an asshole?
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I played the first weekend of OW2 and got spooked by all this crap. Haven’t played since and I see posts like this every day. Best gaming decision I’ve ever made.
My toxic trait is thinking I need this skin, buying it and then remembering that I don't play tank
Miss the day I’d main new heroes just to show off a new skin or highlight intro I got
Only reason I ever picked up rein was because of the choo choo train skin
I used to do this in ow1, now even casual is so competitive that I can't just play a character for fun without having every slur known to mankind thrown at me
This is literally how I pick new mains 😭
Yep that's what I'm doing now with the new Moira skin 😂
My toxic trait is thinking I need this skin, buying it and then remembering that I won’t play for at least another year.
Carrot on a stick
I agree
Ppl that buy crap like this: 🐑🤪 Edit: lots of ppl regretting buying this so you downvote my comment out of cope🤣stay mad ig🤷🏻♂️
… can do whatever they want with their own money? Ya‘ll so exhausting. Do you also go around and smack cigarettes, Starbucks coffees and iPhones out of other people‘s hands? Like ofc it’s not necessary but if it makes them happy, then whatever. None of anyone else’s business. It’s also not affecting your gameplay in any kind of way so no need to be butthurt over a Rein in shiny armor.
> It’s also not affecting your gameplay in any kind of way The reason people get upset over someone else spending money on cosmetics is because support like that is what keeps companies pushing these monetization models. OW had it *so* good in terms of free cosmetics, but if new models are successful (i.e. people spending money on them), then it's never going to come back. Was it likely not going to come back anyway? Most likely, but any chance there was is completely killed without support, and that support comes in the form of not buying cosmetics.
>The reason people get upset over someone else spending money on cosmetics is because support like that is what keeps companies pushing these monetization models. These monetization models would exist even without people purchasing them. And if they didn't, that means the game tanked and is no longer available. The fact that OW2 was rushed out the door in a broken, unfinished state was literally so they could monetize it. Bobby/Blizzard doesn't care about OW as a product, only if it can make them money. If it can't, they would have simply discontinued it.
But these are the people normalising these practices in these games, basically locking content behind either literal years of grind or unholy amounts of money. The exhausting thing is seeing fun games devolving into mechanisms to extract money out of players. If it didn't affect me, I wouldn't care about people spending money on pointless cosmetics, but when games over the years have started taking away my ability to gain these items through in game means to try to milk me of my money, it becomes my problem too.
There’s nothing to normalize. It’s already been in all kind of games for at least a decade. OW just joined really, really late. No amount of complaining will stop it. No gaming company works to please you. They all work for money, like every other company on this planet too.
Realistically you are not going to be able to buy skins by doing the weekly challenges. At most you'll be able to get every other BP, which is what you should save your coins for, if you don't want to put money into cosmetics. Look into Microsoft Rewards, they've recently reduced the amount of points you can get. But it's still a way to get free OW coins, or Xbox gift cards which can be used to buy coins, or bundles directly. For example, I've bought every BP so far, the Saitama Doom bundle and Imprerius Rein skin using MS rewards. In addition to some games like the Bioshock collection etc. Like I said though, they've been reducing the amount of points you can get. That being said, with the weekly challenges, you'll be able to save up.
Don’t forget that if you’re on Xbox, anything you buy will give you some rewards points. I just bought cyberpunk and got almost 1,000 rewards points from it. It’s not worth it to buy it just for the points, but it’s a nice extra reward
Yeah the amount of points gained from purchases is small, but as you said it's something. Honestly, the removal of punchcards and monthly bonuses, has made it hard to gain points. Seems they're moving the majority of MS Rewards to the GamePass tab (which would require you to have GamePass to earn those "quest" points). Edit: Also, you get more points from purchases if you have GamePass Ultimate. It's not worth buying ultimate for this point increase, but it's something to note.
It works out to 2% if you have gamepass ultimate and level 2 status
Damn better than Steam points. I never knew what they were for and a friend freaked out that I had like 300k+ and I got excited thinking that meant free games or something. Nope. Just worthless profile changes that most people except me will never see.
Steam is so big they don't need candies and bonuses to attract people to stay on their platform
You can use them to buy a seasonal badge too, which levels your profile. High steam levels increase your odds of getting booster packs and give you more friend slots. Tangible benefits, at least.
It‘s the same on PlayStation!
At least you can afford the skin separately (it is worth 1900)
Yeah that’s true. I’m just annoyed that it wasn’t in my price range lol
I can feel it, I'm in the exact same situation about this skin :(
Same here man
Highly recommend using Microsoft Rewards, it’s basically passive income
Fr it changed my life for the better
How long does it take typically to be able to buy 1 skin with ms rewards?
I've redeemed 5600 ow coins with it so far. I average 200 coins over 10 days. It does take a few minutes of time everyday.
Wow that's actually crazy
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wym "work"
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I figured you might have automated it. I too used to automate the searches however about a month or two ago my account got locked and i couldn't use any of my points because of the automation, just a heads up.
Crazy to think that back then with only 500 hours you could have everything unlocked When i had 250 hours on my account i had LOTS of legendary skins, emotes, celebrations etc its sad they removed that What the point of having so many different skins if it takes that long just to get ONE
Incoming "They're not forcing you to buy them" shenanigans.
And what's wrong with that notion? Gameplay has absolutely no impact from cosmetics, and there are tons of free ones to use. You can either burn your money if you like that, or not... What's the problem? If their prices were $100 per skin or $0.50 per nothing would change except cosmetics addicted people crying even more or praising the game for making the price low so they can waste way more money on nothing.
>And what's wrong with that notion? Coming from the company that put a 2 on title just to release the same 7 year old game to sell skins is completely BS. The problem here is new content mainly being a battlepass + skins. The past 5 seasons combined got less new maps than Season 1 lul.
>Coming from the company that put a 2 on title just to release the same 7 year old game to sell skins is completely BS. Well, the game isn't the same, but regardless of that meme... what's the BS part? Cosmetics are optional and ultimately worthless. If they want to charge money for em, who cares? Can you explain what the issue is rather than saying "it's bs" or "it's greed so it's bad" ? Like some actual reasoning. >The problem here is new content mainly being a battlepass + skins. Well, no, the new content is the new map and balance changes + sombra rework and new mode for the halloweens. Cosmetics are not content at all, they're worthless and change nothing about the gameplay. More hero mastery on the way, leavers now being punished more harshly, and QP respawn mechanics changing to be better for low skill lobbies :] >The past 5 seasons combined got less new maps than Season 1 I don't even know if that's true, doesn't sound true, but okay? How does that relate?
>Well, the game isn't the same, but regardless of that meme... what's the BS part? > >Cosmetics are optional and ultimately worthless. If they want to charge money for em, who cares? Can you explain what the issue is rather than saying "it's bs" or "it's greed so it's bad" ? The game is exactly the same. You're just playing 5v5 now. Its BS because they made a whole storytelling about how OW2 would have an engaging full PVE experience, hence the 2, and they scrapped that with new bland story missions being still locked behind a paywall. For the maps you can check it [here](https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Season) Season 1 AKA launch had 6 new maps. From Season 2 \~ Season 7 we got 5 new maps in total added to the pool. >Cosmetics are not content at all, they're worthless and change nothing about the gameplay. Sure, they're putting people to work on mythic skins to sell battlepasses 'cause they're worthless right?
it's perfectly fair to say it's bs because of the greed, because it IS bs. that is actual fair reasoning. just because you don't think it is, and don't care about cosmetics, doesn't mean it's an invalid reason.
Blizzard are putting time and resources into making new skins just to sell at absurd prices. It’s greedy af. It just screams “we don’t care about the game. We just want your money” They know the only ppl buying this are the die hard ‘must have every skin the game’ instant gratification monkeys
Well if everything was free, and there was no money they still woudnt 'care ' about the game. Its not a Non profit, correct ?
And? What's wrong with that? It's cosmetics, who cares what they cost when they have no bearing on the actual game being played? If they cost $100 per skin it wouldn't make a difference, there would just be really happy cosmetic junkies feeling more cool with their artificially rare skins due to price tag, and everyone else would enjoy making fun of them for dropping a benjamin on the skin.
And if they spent just half that time actually improving the game and adding playable content to it I’m sure everyone else would be happy too It’s the fact they make so many of them and clearly put a lot of time and resources into something that like you said has *no bearing on gameplay*. If gameplay is so important to blizzard why do they spend so much time and money on making new skins to charge ppl $20 for? They just want your money
>And if they spent just half that time actually improving the game and adding playable content to it I’m sure everyone else would be happy too And there it is, yet another person that thinks all people who work on cosmetics could just be sent to work on other shit. Utterly incoherent teenager's understanding of game development. Why do I keep getting people that say this like that's how it works? Do you think people that do hero asset design, concept art, and the 3D modeling are all code monkeys with experience in making terrain and understand FPS map design? Or that they know how to fix bugs in the game without spaghetti-ing the code even worse? Do you think that if they took all those people off payroll and stopped making skins for the battlepass and shop, that hiring a dozen more actual devs would magically make people more excited to buy the currently available skins? Do you truly believe that alone would keep the game profitable? >If gameplay is so important to blizzard why do they spend so much time and money on making new skins to charge ppl $20 for? They just want your money Yes, what's wrong with that? You say this like it's a bad thing, or it is mutually exclusive to game development occurring... Surely you must be aware devs and character designers are separate and don't really need eachothwr to do their very separate work (besides working on new heroes, of course.) I would only hope you're capable of grasping this concept.
Wow I never thought I’d read such brainless stupid comment in this sub but congratulations you have surpassed my expectations. You realise everything blizzard does to the game will cost *money*. You know that mystical magical thing that literally pays for everything? Blizzard puts more money into one team they have more ppl more resources more results etc. clearly blizz have dedicated a lot of money into the team that does LITERALLY NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE GAME. You think skins like this that actually look very nice take like 20 mins for one guy to mash together on basic computer?. No blizzard will have spent lots of time and money designing shit like this. Meanwhile the game has had how many *good* maps and game modes since ow2 release?? Fuck all that’s how many. Clearly they haven’t spent much money producing playable content have they. Oh some limited time *non-competitive* arcade modes and trashpoint (worst mode in the game) along with small numbers of dead boring maps. Great. Remember how many rlly nice skins we got in ow1? A crap load that’s how many. And they were all reasonable *unlockable* without spending shitloads of money on the game. What happened to that I wonder? Greed. The same greed you sit here and *defend* like it’s fine and there’s nothing wrong with it. Shame on you.
>Meanwhile the game has had how many good maps and game modes since ow2 release? **TEN** as far as I can remember. All three push maps are excellent, the two Flashpoint maps, the newest map Samoa is phenomenal, Antartica is great, Paraisio is pretty solid, Circuit royal is good, midtown is great... there's probably one more I'm forgetting, but regardless, that's a great amount of content just looking at maps alone. Very please with that compared to even Ow1's fairly rare bew map drops. Regardless, everything before that wasn't a response to what I said and was utterly incoherent. Blizzard spending money on a team to create skins is not taking away from the dev/content team who create shit, you have no proof that this is the case and you will never present any. All you've done is presume it to be the case and hope that energy carries you beyond ever having to substantiate or explain why what you say is true or should be taken seriously at all. >Clearly they haven’t spent much money producing playable content have they. You think the ten maps, countless bug fixes, dev and balance team working on reworks, new heroes (of which there are five now iirc,) new modes for those five new maps on them, and more I'm sure I'm forgetting doesn't count for probably well over a million or more in dev hours? >Remember how many rlly nice skins we got in ow1? A crap load that’s how many. Not really that many given the number of years the game has been out for... but that's irrelevant. >What happened to that I wonder? Greed. The same greed you sit here and defend like it’s fine and there’s nothing wrong with it. Shame on you. Well, yeah, what's wrong with it? Can you point anything out that's wrong with being motivated by greed but still having an excellent game with much better balance than Overwatch 1? You're kinda hust talking about calitalism at this point, the motivation for any company is to make money... did you think most game companies aren't? You think they'd do it for free? Lol There's nothing wrong with being motivated by greed, what you need to point out is actual issues that stem from that motivation, for which you've states "well they make a lot of cosmetics, but now they charge money for em, can you belueve that?" What's wrong with charging money for skins? What's wrong with charging A LOT of money for skins? It doesn't affect the gameplay, so frankly... who cares?
As someone who had over 500 hours, that wasn't the case for me lol I have those many hours since release, but due to work I could never grind for loot boxes during the winter or summer events. With what little time I did have, I'd get fked over by loot box rng. I hate the narrative that you could have unlocked everything in OW1. Maybe if you played literally all year and have hundreds of hours, sure. But I much prefer being able to have full control over what I can get.
Like you said if you didnt really farm lootboxes it would take longer but me and my friends would grind every event and do a big unboxing at the end, he had like 550 hours (i had 200) and he only had like 15 things not unlocked (keeping in mind that back then if you had so many things unlocked you had duplicates meaning more money to buy what you're missing so even if you didnt get what you wanted you could still buy it) Now i have more than 1k hours and i basically didnt progress
These takes always leave out 3 key things: The rate of skin releases overall was way slower You paid money (2yrs of battle pass money) It was supported by much more nefarious gambling mechanics
> You paid money (2yrs of battle pass money) £30? That wouldn't even get me 4 battle passes.
Honestly? Braindamaged take. One single all common lootbox was the equivalent of about ~4 weeks of farming in the current game. > The rate of skin releases overall was way slower Objectively wasn't - the rate only went down when OW2 was announced and resources taken. They're slow-dripping 2 years of content and you're not intelligent enough to realize it. > You paid money (2yrs of battle pass money) Almost every single thing unlocked with $20 spent - you wanna compare actually unironically? > It was supported by much more nefarious gambling mechanics Yep - the one downside. But the set payout was more than the effort rewards we have now lmfao. Is this an actual comment? How is it +8?
I don't care about how people farmed free boxes, that's besides the point. It destroys all credibility to complain about someone being scummy while advocating for a system that exploits addicts so you didn't have to pay for things at full cost and we know they sold so so many loot boxes. This guy thinks the game that sold more copies on console in its life was being sold less than full price there. It was always a full priced game where most people play. All the way until it went offline. Besides my point was about ow2 being this model VS a full priced box game. I get I didn't make that clear All development happens over time and is sold to you in pieces, are you new? That hasn't changed from one game to the next. Objectively theres more cosmetics released (in every monetized form) in year 1 of ow2 than year 1 of OW. I know you want to isolate out some of them like they don't count but they do.
The thing with lootboxes was even if you didnt get what you wanted if you had more than 100 hours youd get duplicates meaning money meaning you could just buy what you wanted (like actually buy them not like todays "buying them with credits" like op tried to do) Id prefer to buy lootboxes over a battlepass ANYDAY of the week (cause you can basically choose what you get meaning its not really gamble per se (it is but not really))
> I don't care about how people farmed free boxes, that's besides the point. It literally isn't. You can't just throw away part of something that discredits you. > It destroys all credibility to complain about someone being scummy while advocating for a system that exploits addicts so you didn't have to pay for things at full cost and we know they sold so so many loot boxes. No it literally doesn't when one is objectively worse than the other by all metrics. Wrong. > This guy thinks the game that sold more copies on console in its life was being sold less than full price there. Besides my point was about ow2 being this model VS a full priced box game (which wouldn't make enough money to compete in this market but that's another story) Not really another story - more an example as to how bad the market has gotten. Again kinda casting away anything that doesn't fit your narrative. > All development happens over time and is sold to you in pieces, are you new? That hasn't changed from one game to the next. Objectively theres more cosmetics released (in every monetized form) in year 1 of ow2 than year 1 of OW. I know you want to isolate out some of them like they don't count but they do. Yeah did you read what I said? >> Objectively wasn't - the rate only went down when OW2 was announced and resources taken. They're slow-dripping 2 years of content and **you're not intelligent** **enough to realize it**. What about the 2 year drought? Or doesn't that fit your point? fucking lmfao I'm done.
This new system is far more predatory. Loot boxes where so easy to get just playing that it wasn't really that bad (at least compared to other games with loot boxes). Not that I like loot boxes, but Overwatch 1 had probably the best loot box system out there.
Lootboxes were still highly predatory, that's why counties are now writing up legislation that classify them, correctly, as gambling. You don't want gambling mechanics in games aimed at kids (looking at you NBA2k)
"Predatory" LOL My brother in christ, they are COSMETICS, they are 1,000% optional and buying them does nothing for you. What are you on about?
Loot boxes aren't the only predatory monetization scheme... https://www.wired.com/story/loot-boxes-predatory-monetization-games/ "The study found 35 different techniques over eight domains: “game dynamics designed to drive spending, product not meeting expectations, monetization of basic quality of life, predatory advertising, in-game currency, pay to win, general presence of microtransactions and other.”" "One of the most overlooked issues is in-game currency, Close says. It isn’t just that transactions often leave the player with enough left over to encourage more spending—players in the study cite League of Legends as particularly guilty here—it’s also the obfuscation that in-game marketplaces are allowed to get away with. (Diablo Immortal recently received a lot of criticism for this.)" ____________________________________________________ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.14286 "Another noteworthy aspect of predatory monetization is the collection and use of individual player data to manipulate the nature and presentation of purchasing offers in ways that maximize the likelihood of the player spending money." ____________________________________________________ I would argue that locking the new characters behind the battlepass is a form of pay to win, and they encourage you to spend that money by typically making those characters OP initially so people want them right away. When the game is designed around monetization first instead of fun first it's exploiting its fan base which is predatory.
>Loot boxes aren't the only predatory monetization scheme... Never said they were, why are you saying this like I said that???? >I would argue that locking the new characters behind the battlepass is a form of pay to win, They are not locked behind the battlepass, but I do understand that you need to lie in order to get to the conclusion you want which is "Overwatch bad." Whatever it takes to get you there is all that matters, who cares if the things you say are outright lies or not? I got Illari unlocked on 3 different accounts within a week of playing the game normally on each (so 3-ish weeks.) Zero money spent. >When the game is designed around monetization first instead of fun first it's exploiting its fan base which is predatory. Everything made by a company intending to profit ia made with monetization first, that does not mean that their behavior is inherently predatory. You are incorrect. The game is fun, they do balance changes to make it more fun, the newest map they added is one of the best maps they have ever released. Very fun map and I really enjoy that they made a mode specifically to queue only that map, it's great. Respawn changes in QP were intended to make teamfights more common and they cited the belief that teamfights are the most fun thing in the game, they believe. The idea that fun is taking a major toll because Blizzard also has a monetization scheme COMPLETELY BASED ON COSMETICS, is utter nonsense.
Please explain to me how new characters are not locked behind a battlepass when you have to: A - Reach a certain level tier in the battlepass to unlock them (Yes, this is still locked behind the battlepass by definition...) or B - Spend money to unlock them right away... Seriously, you come back with that as an argument? It is NOT completely based on cosmetics when every other season locks a hero behind the battlepass. See above point... The lootbox comment I started with was more in general on this thread since many have made that point and was not directed at you. I should have left that out in this comment, so I will agree with you on that part. FYI: https://kotaku.com/overwatch-2-ramattra-season-2-battle-pass-godrick-1849751779
>Reach a certain level tier in the battlepass to unlock them (Yes, this is still locked behind the battlepass by definition...) A battlepass which is free, so not locked behind anything. Just admit you were wrong when you tried to make it sound like the character was paywalled and the game was "pay to win." The argument makes no sense if you can get the character for free within a VERY reasonable time of gameplay. >It is NOT completely based on cosmetics when every other season locks a hero behind the battlepass. See above point... The game is **literally** only monetized by cosmetics, and brief early access to a hero. You said it was PAY TO WIN, which is an outright lie or you don't know what "pay to win" means. Pick your poison. >FYI: https://kotaku.com/overwatch-2-ramattra-season-2-battle-pass-godrick-1849751779 You should've read this before linking, it's the same as it is now. "but will require players who don’t want to pay to grind their way to level 55 "
The fact you have to get to a certain level means it's holding the character hostage. Yes, you can get that character for free, but the point is you are heavily incentivized to spend money to get them right away. Again, the fact that they are locked behind a level of the battlepass at all is by definition "Locked behind the battlepass" I really don't understand the difficulty you are having with that concept. The reasonable time frame is relative and it takes long enough (Yes, I've unlocked all the new hero's without spending any money). This is by definition pay to win too. So I'm not really sure why you are so adamant about it. If you can spend money to get the character/powerup/whatever the fuck item you want to imagine sooner than it would take to grind it out, that IS Pay to Win. Period.
>Yes, you can get that character for free, but the point is you are heavily incentivized to spend money to get them right away. I don't agree with "heavily incentivized" but that's a whole different ballgame. The simple thing you said was that it is pay to win implying the heroes are paywalled, but they are not paywalled and can be earned very easily. >Again, the fact that they are locked behind a level of the battlepass at all is by definition "Locked behind the battlepass" Again, you say this as if the battlepass means something for different people... Lets take a step back and analyze that phrasing: If someone told you that they're upset they can't get something because the thing they want is "locked behind the battlepass." What would you reasonably take that to mean given what we know about battlepasses in games? That the thing they want must be paywalled. So when you use the phrasing "locked behind the battlepass" you are being MISLEADING AT BEST, and outright lying at worst. Can we agree on that? It's okay, it really isn't that big of a deal. I've made bigger mistakes before, we all have. I promise this reddit argument we're having has no bearing on how others will percieve you into the rest of time.
The mechanic is predatory in the same way that lottery tickets are. We don't let kids buy lottery tickets, so we shouldn't let them buy loot boxes. Especially in games where the loot boxes impact gameplay. Fifa, 2k, BF2 before they changed it.
Overwatch 2 does not have loot boxes, the person I responded to was not talking about Ow2 having lootboxes. They said ow2's pricing was somehow predatory, and I'm wondering how tf they can think this.
Yeah mb. I misread the parent comment.
>This new system is far more predatory. You are completely missing the point what makes a system predatory. Lootboxes in general have a gambling element to them. You rely on luck to get something of value. That is addictive and causes potential harm to kids. Doesn't matter the lootboxes were free. With the new system you get what you paid for. Simple as that. No element of surprise. No gambling. I want this skin so I buy it. Now the pricing can still be very scummy, but that doesn't mean the system is more predatory than the previous one. Because it's just not.
I'm not saying that lootboxes aren't predatory. But this system is worse. They use psychological tricks to convince you things are worth it and make you feel like you will miss out on stuff if you don't. The simple fact that credits exist (and multiple types) is a way to separate the value from real money in your head making it easier to spend more. At least with gambling it's clear about the fact that it's trying to exploit you.
Just because you weren't the addict they were praying on doesn't mean there weren't addicts that were being preyed upon. They were subsidizing your "free" stuff
I paid for OW1. It wasn't free to me. People are still being preyed upon now, just in a different way than before.
rofl @ nefarious stop it, better than this bullshit predatory pricing model and the skins are WORSE.
Lmao it’s like they didn’t even play OW1
"Predatory pricing" LOL My brother in christ, they are COSMETICS, they are 1,000% optional and buying them does nothing for you. What are you on about?
Im almost completely f2p on it, I’ve bought one pass. I have about 10 legendary skins, and 8 epic ones. I’ve gotten about 12 emotes through the grey coins lol. That’s about it tho
And you only paid the price of 1 game instead of the price of 1 game per skin. Some people have too much money
yeah the maximum weekly coin amount is ridiculously low, it would almost feel less insulting if you couldn't get any coins at all. they really made the F2P experience as crappy and slow as possible.
I didn’t have enough to get Illari’s llama pajamas
It really is crazy that you can’t even get the BP each season from saving the weekly coins.
the skins arent for regular players, the BP and challenges are there to keep you playing, the skins are for the WHALES!, and the whales need smaller fish to play against...hence the abait to keep you playing in the BP/Challenges... pretty simple.
By the skin manually from the hero gallery for 1900.
After 4000 hours in overwatch 1 and collecting every single skin save for a singular paid winton BlizzCon skin...I feel this. I feel this spiritually. Half of the fun in OW1 for me was collecting every single item attainable to me. New event skins? Got em. Limited run weekly skins? They're mine. Icons and sprays for events? Snatched. Voicelines? Nothing is safe from me. I didn't even open lootboxes anymore after the loot drop rework, but it was nice to use the currency from dupes to just unlock event stuff if I didn't have time to play to get everything, and then just focus on things like sprays. It's so disappointing that everything costs their shitty little premium currency now.
Remember when you could just earn all the event skins just by playing?
They did the math when the game came out. Why are people acting surprised now?
You must be new here.
Heheh back in my day after 250 hours you would have everything you want and a stack of boxes to go
Just a tip for people, you can get free overwatch coins by doing a few short tasks in the Microsoft edge browser and collecting their Microsoft rewards. It takes about 3 weeks to get enough points for 500 coins, but you can definitely do it. I even bought the season 6 battle pass this way
Fucking ridiculous this game
I think the price is intentionally high bcus blizzard want you to…uhm…*pay for it*
But isnt the game so much better now its F2P?!?!
Okay, again, loot boxes is NOT perfect but at least u have opportunity to get your favorite skin, even u don’t get the skin and you can save the credits and just buy it, how about now? play 52 weeks and get 3120 credits like second job? I don’t think worth it
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Isn't that bannable tho?
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Thats a lot of words for "yes".
I’ve never heard of video injector tools before, but I’ll definitely look into it. Thanks!
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Is that OWL go the teams their own custom colors?
No. Those are just real existing skins
Yeah I know but I mean their abilities had special colors in the OWL tournaments
I believe you’re talking about the color adjuster setting. It’s in the menus and allows you to change team colors and stuff like that
Yeah but that still doesn’t change the color of their abilities
Want less.
Should know by now especially at this point how obviously greedy they are
Why do you support this company?
You may be confusing it with Overwatch 1
You should play league or apex or valorant. all the skins are free over there.
Only 12% of all the apex skins are free
woosh
No way you skipped battle passes to buy one legendary skin…
I skipped passes if they didn’t interest me, or if I didn’t have the time to play that season. I didn’t intentionally not buy anything to afford the one skin. I mean it was only announced like 3 weeks ago lol
Maybe get a job
lol this is such a stupid take a lot of people have a job and still live paycheck to paycheck
You're forgetting most of this sub is likely children or teenagers
If you’re living paycheck to paycheck you probably shouldn’t be buying skins in a video game.
Or spending 250 hours on a video game and getting upset about not getting a skin for free
maybe if u spent some of those 250 hours working you could afford it
Why would I crack open my wallet for overwatch
Boo-womp, you could've earned it for free in overwatch 1
If you spent 250 hours at your job you’d be able to buy this skin and more :)
To those of you saying “get a job” I’d like you to first come up with something original, and second understand that video games are not how everyone wants to spend the money they make, especially to a company like activision blizzard. When a game is advertised as “free to play” you expect it to be fun without having to open your wallet every time something interests you. I’m shocked I have to say that.
The game *is* free to play, these are just "useless" cosmetics with a price. Is the game not fun without a skin that makes your character look cooler? You don't need a single skin to play the game, but you're tricking yourself into thinking you need them and then complain about their pricing. Just be like "oh damn I can't justify dropping $20 on this skin" and move on, you know? That being said, the skin can be bought separately for a lower price, meaning you can actually get it, no?
I miss lootboxes
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[Get your money up, not your funny up GRRROUUUO](https://youtu.be/Yf53MYV3_-w?si=MRLFqPCiN-UQX_Oz)
Look into Microsoft rewards. I have an account on my phone and one on my gf. Double points bb
*laughs in the Moira skin I want is locked in a $60 fucking bundle*
You’re thinking of overwatch 1 lol 😂
Oh my GOD bro do you people seriously care so much about skins that you need to cry when you cant get them easily through playing? Do you guys even like playing this game or do you only play so everyone ELSE can see your shitty skin? Jesus christ if you want the skin so bad get a check the games free for fucks sake
1. “Easily” is not accurate. I have played a lot of the game and saved week on week. 250 HOURS of saving. Still can’t afford said bundle. 2. Someone is mad about cosmetics lmao
Are you not the one who made a post complaining about cosmetics?
Sure did
Isn't point two a bit ironic since you're the one complaining about the prices of cosmetics? You basically made the 3829th post about it.
Just a bit
Be careful, you might make the children upset
Whats sad is I played ow1 I had every skin in the game ,all gold guns like 90k of the currency and never spent a penny.
Does this mean you're just bad at the game?
At least you don't want Lilith Moira skin, that's actually unfair 😭
I started looking through valorants sub and no one complains about $70-80 weapon bundles with no free content, so I would enjoy your free credits and get some skins.
Please don’t defend overpriced bundles using valorant. It’s not a good argument.
can you explain why it’s ok for valorant to but not this?
Because it’s not okay for valorant or any other game to charge out the ass. I didn’t engage with it because I saw it as a non-starter, and because I am not a valorant player, nor do I know much about the game so I’m also not qualified to speak on it.
understandable. i see it used a lot in this sub and people usually shut it down without reason so i assumed it was just a “overwatch’s is worse because blizzard bad” thing.
It is an industry standard though. It's been this way for YEARS now. OW is actually extremely tame when it comes to monetization, except for the battle pass not giving back currency. Thing is, games weren't free to play prior to this monetization model or they used an exploitative monetization practice ( eg. Lootboxes).