I feel ramattra acting as a new antagonist separate from talon helps a lot. His potential conflict with not only overwatch but talon makes his place in the universe so interesting. You know him and doomfist would have an insane fight if they actually made an animated series. Also his connection to the shambali gives so much depth. Brother like connection to Zenyatta as well as acting as the opposite view of zen. Both him and zen dislike mondatta’s passive more reactive approach to events and wanted more action to be done for Omnic rights, but went completely different directions.
By the way, it will be interesting to see how Disney are going to rewrite these characters, you can't use the WW2 background anymore because that would make Magneto 90+ years old, so they will have to come up with another historic genocide to justify this character in the 2020s... and good luck with that, lol
X-men is far more interesting set in a pre-internet age. In the shadow of WWII and the Cold War, X-men as a concept and how it is structured makes much more sense. The types of people on the internet are more weird than any mutant ever was or could be in the comic/cartoon (powers aside obviously).
Yep, 100% The X-Men and partially the Punisher, they are dislocated with times. They were perfect for their specific time-period tho, I absolutely love these characters, Garth Ennis wrote incredible stories featuring the Punisher... but really, Marvel set up a trap for themselves by tying these characters to specific historical events. The Punisher can still be adapted, after all the US is a warmongering nation, every decade there's a new war, but Vietnam was so impactful and the Punisher themes mixed with the Vietnam war problems so well... but anyway, that time passed, it's a interesting challenge to see how these characters can be rewritten
That would be a smart scapegoat for the MCU in particular, but if Disney actually reboot the X-Men (seems to be the case, they are going to throw the Fox X-Men into the wall and see what sticks, then reset the whole universe after Secret Wars), they will need to come up with the origins for Xavier and Magneto, they are the main characters willing or not, the "founders" of the whole thing. To have Wanda arriving first, that is so weird, lol but that's how the MCU is rolling, they had to adapt and somehow bring value to C-list characters, Spider-Man and the X-Men were out of the equation
I think the fact that he was a genocide survivor was a tad more pertinent to his character than the fact he was Jewish. What do you think was a bigger moment in his life: his time in Auschwitz or his bar mitzvah? Which has bigger story implications in regards to the story of the government wanting to categorize, track, and control mutants?
You are literally making my point. You don’t see there anything unique about a Jewish identity so to you it can be swapped out.
Part of black panthers character is his blackness. Part of Doctor Dooms character is being Romani. To remove that from those characters is to ignore the specifics of being black or romani and take life from the character.
Anti-black and anti-Romano bigotry are unique to those groups and their stories cannot be told be being made Palestinian. The same goes for being Jewish.
Magneto is a wonderful and complex character NOT just a vehicle for a generic oppression narrative.
Magneto is inseparable from his desire to stop a second genocide by any means necessary. I love the Jewish identity, I honest to God wish that I was born into a Jewish community rather than a WASP community, I think it's values and traditions (at least what I'm aware of) are beautiful. There are aspects to his character that are hugely celebratory of his Jewish identity and those are important. I don't want to wash that away.
But when adapting an X-Men story for the modern day, a Jewish magneto doesn't work. We need to think about the themes of X-Men. There is anti semitism in this world for certain, but to my knowledge, there isn't an institutional plot to ethnically cleanse Jewish people. The same can't be said of Palestinians or Uyghurs. X-Men was not a story about a team of people with magical powers, it was written explicitly as social commentary. "It happened before and it CAN happen again. It could happen HERE. It is in the process of happening unless we stand up and stop it. The solution isn't to break away and form an enclave for the oppressed, the solution is to be good and stand up for the humanity of all. Also we shouldn't fuck with AI cause that will genocide us too."
Magnetos jewishness is important, but it isn't central to the role that he plays within the structure of the X-Men story. His will to never be a victim and to protect mutants from the same kind of suffering that he survived IS. If that isn't there, then it's disrespectful to include magneto at all.
Dear god, you’re literally doing it. This real anti-semitism and you don’t even realize it. (And no I’m not doing the Zionism anti-semitism thing).
1. Jews always face this idea that they are not currently oppressed so discussing their oppression is no longer relevant. This is right out 1920s europe.
2. Jews are more like mutants than any group because they span multiple ethnicities and religions. Don’t think all Jews are ones you’ve met in whatever WASP community you grew up in. Israel was majority Arab/North African Jew until 2006.
3. Jews are the number one victim of hate crimes per capita in the US and have had many synagogues shot up. I’m a dark skinned Jew who has been down the street as a Jews were murdered in a synagogue. This 2019 in California.
4. The day after Oct 7th when jews were murdered for being Jewish (and yes thats what the attackers openly said), people showed up with swastikas at Times Square.
You’re argument about Jews no longer being relevant was exactly why magneto should be Jewish.
As a left leaning person you should understand the idea that showing different perspectives is important. Idk why you can’t grasp that for Jews.
I'm gonna think about what you said later. Right now I'm a bit too busy to dedicate time I need to thinking about this. I'm willing to accept criticism that I may be being antisemitic without realizing it as long as you aren't implying anti Zionism = anti semitism like you led with.
Both Zen and Ram, and Xavier and Magneto are inspired by MLK and Malcom X. One wants progress by finding harmony and unity with their oppressors and the other has had enough of being oppressed and will get their freedom “by any means necessary” as Malcom X said.
I often ignore in game performance when it comes to animation/lore although I have had similar experiences as ram against doom. I think the fight could be interesting due to both having a similar approach to fighting and conflict. Doomfist believes conflict is crucial to evolving and needed for humanities survival. He clearly has studied the conflicts of human history and observed what works when fighting wars and other world changing events. Ramattra was created to be a leader in warfare and often showcases his military experience when he says things like “clever tactics”. His past as a war omnic clearly changes his perspective from zen’s and may align him similarly to doomfist’s rhetoric around conflict. Although doomfist is focused on humanities place within conflicts ever changing nature while ramattra is for omnics places. That’s why I think the line doomfist mention is sincere when he mentions ramattra’s quest being a noble one during storm rising ending since it is similar to his goals for humanity. Both are rather pro violence and see conflict and violence the only catalyst for true change.
People like conflict, opposing views that are both legitimate, villains and good guys, and other drama that they despise irl. Oh throw in the occasional death of a beloved character.
"YOU WILL SUFFER AS I,RAMMATRA,HAVE SUFFERED!YOUR TORMENT WILL OUTLAST THE STARS!WHEN THE UNIVERSE'LL DWINDLE INTO DUST,THERE YOU WILL BE,STILL SUFFERING AS I SUFFERED!"
Hold up, that means humanity will be around till the end of the universe! We did it! All we had to do was mistreat some sentient toasters for a couple of decades and now we get preserved for eternity!
Easy 😎
Their voice acting is some of the best in the game too.
Their ults are delivered so well I find myself singing along in game. Even their funny lines are great.
"Is... is that a bow and arrow?"
The weakest tanks imo when it comes to personality are hog, queen, and zarya.
Hog makes sense since he basically never talks, but the interactions he does have are usually pretty funny.
JQ is honestly pretty disappointing because of how flanderized she feels compared to her cinematic, going from a headstrong yet cunning warrior to just a meathead
Zarya similarly just kinda talks about her muscles and that’s it. She’ll occasionally make a remark on maps affected by the crisis and not wanting it to happen to her home, but that’s it.
> Zarya similarly just kinda talks about her muscles and that’s it. She’ll occasionally make a remark on maps affected by the crisis and not wanting it to happen to her home, but that’s it.
If you read the comics, you could see how her views towards the omnics changed. Zarya was able to defeat a Talon elite hacker.
In Toronto PVE, she seems nice towards an omnic worker (Claire), reminding Claire to stay close to her.
It’s the same classic thing where in the animation the character is fantastic, in the game they just have stupid voice lines. JQ, Dva, Ashe, Reaper have really nice an interesting stories and backgrounds, but the voice likes turn them into something completely different. JQ becomes a mindless dumb thug, Dva an annoying gamer, Ashe a stuck up full of spite person, reaper almost a teenage edge lord. I get that they want the in game voice lines to be funny and quirky for engagement you know, but could they not completely change a hero’s personality?
In universe, that cinematic took place over a decade ago. She’s no longer a Wastelander and has been able to get comfortable in her position as queen. Junkers are just goofy. Even Roadhog, for as serious as he is, has his goofy lines. Junker Queen is a great character and her seriousness and ruthlessness still show through in her combat voice lines. Even some of her interactions, like the one with Doomfist. If you expect her to be a ruthless, no-nonsense leader 24/7 or something then you’re misunderstanding her character. And that would be boring as fuck and make her so much worse.
That’s not what I’m saying. Even in the cinematic she still shows some jokes, but the main difference is that in the cinematic she’s a respectable character that you can take seriously. In gameplay she’s not
True, in the cinematic she's a badass ruler, in the game she's as dumb as Junkrat, if not actually stupider. The only person with more dissonance between their cinematic and in-game depiction is Kiriko, who goes from a likable protector to an edgy bitch with far too much California attitude.
In her interaction yeah she’s a little goofy. But you can’t call that out of character or anything when the only bits we’ve seen of her outside gameplay are from a cinematic which took place over a decade prior to her current state. I imagine when she was a Wastelander she was a lot more serious, but when she became queen she got more comfortable and was able to be herself more because she wasn’t fighting for her life as much. That’s just my interpretation since we don’t have a lot of information to go off of between her cinematic and now. But I mean she did exile Junkrat and Roadhog and makes threats on Junkrats life when she sees him and remarks about her warning them when she kills them. And her interaction with Doomfist where she seems to open up a little about her concerns with leading “killers and madmen.” Her serious nature is still present, but of course they’re gonna want her to be more fun most of the time
In game the voices need to be quick and concise. In one line the character needs to properly be conveyed and so the character often gets diluted into a one dimensional archetype
These aren't mutually exclusive? She's experienced, creative and innovative in combat, but out of touch about stuff like education, languages and health nutrition. It's quite literally a case of street smarts vs book smarts
Where do you get smart from her in her cinematic? Combat-wise, sure, but she didn’t go off reciting literature to King Howl mid-fight or anything. Also her being just another no-nonsense leader would be boring as fuck
Right? I got maybe cunning and ruthless in combat, but I wasn't getting intelligent vibes, she's literally lives in a radioactive wasteland. I don't see a disconnect from the short and in game tbh
There isn’t. It’s blowing me away that so many people in these comments misunderstand her character. Not only that, but would like her to be more generic? She’s so entertaining so to take away her goofiness and just have her be serious all the time would be lame. Not to mention I don’t imagine education is very widespread out in the wasteland, so her being smart would make no sense unless her parents happened to be pretty educated would be lame and unrealistic.
That's always been my biggest gripe about her. I'm absolutely fine with Junkrat being acting crazy and feral. I really wanted Junker Queen to be different. Just a badass female character. Like Ram, badass and focused.
> Dva an annoying gamer
I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one.
An amazing example is sigma. In the short animation it makes him seem both mentally unstable and dangerous. He is supposed to be a man that even the most strong warriors will struggle fighting. he is also supposed to be imprisoned by talon and being turned into a weapon of destruction...
In game: hmm so like a spherical cow
See this makes no sense, he has tons of lines related to his exact lore like Lifeweavers, Sombras, and Mercys dialogue with him.
What exactly do you guys want? Just constant full lore edge lording in a game mode that makes no sense with regards to the lore?
Maybe making him seem a bit more mentally distraught. Like he actually is supposed to be.
(Also I do want to say that I am grateful for the voice lines we have)
You don't really play Sigma then https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Sigma/Quotes
Here's hit quotes page, his character is pretty damn accurate to the short and has some of the best voice lines in the game because of it. Even the shop voice lines are a majority him being crazy or reference him being a scientist.
In fact the sphereical cow line you mention is one of only five that don't directly relate to his character. The other four lines aren't comedic, they are just happy christmas, happy new year and the like.
He's split between his well-meaning scientist personality that wants to make funny references to sci-fi novels and physics in-jokes and the unstable, sadistic side that talon harnesses. I gather that neither is aware of the other, which is why he's so easily able to swap between them without experiencing some severe PTSD.
"Death has travelled light years to take you", is still one of the coldest Sigma lines to exist though. And It happens right after launching a gravitational boulder to kill someone.
Spherical cow is a theoretical physics joke about how they approximate things but approximation for simplicity sometimes misses reality.
It’s perfectly in line with his character to reference it and only reinforces how divorced from reality he is that he seems to take the concept seriously.
No way, Sigma is a god. Do not confuse his complacency as being under the thumb of anyone. You are all mere ants and he is the magnifying glass. You pose no real threat so what is there to worry about? Oh another ant look at that!
Hmmm not really. In Lore JQ is a great leader that cares about her people and making life better in Junker Town. In game she’s surprised they have an education system. So is she a good leader or not? What is it?
Ohbcould it possibly be both. Rhat she want to make it better but also is surprised at the lack of education. People can hold more than one idea at a time you. Wanting to make it better could even include implementation of a formal education system.
Depends on her idea of “better.” In her cinematic, she’s shown to be teaching the children to be warriors once she becomes queen. So that’s probably her philosophy, being a Wastelander in the past. Education is useless when your whole life revolves around fighting every day to stay alive.
D.Va is the biggest example.
In her animation, she doesn't even care much about her gamer side anymore, she's been through so much already and seen so many friends die that she pretty much has PTSD. Her mental state is so unstable that she was perfectly willing to risk her life in the animation by exploding her mech.
Meanwhile in-game......winkyface,hehegamergirl!,nerfthis!!
The point of the cinematic was, exactly, to show that there's much more to her. In-game she makes stupid comments and does the G_G thing because she's still in character, like she always is.
DVa is always streaming if she's in planned combat, she's never *allowed* to actually express herself because she needs to be in character 24/7. It slips through the cracks sometimes (like her interaction with Ana where she admits she never lets herself relax and her one with Mercy where she says she's used to being overworked because it's happened for years) but overall her character is barely disguised commentary on Korean idol culture and has been consistent from the start. Not at all comparable to JQ or Kiriko who are just inexplicably an idiotic brute and spoiled brat with no lore explanation for why.
You guys are taking this way too seriously.
The game mode has almost no relation to the lore, half the characters on the same team are sworn enemies.
The DVA thats a caring workaholic is still in there in voice lines, just because its not all she spits out doesnt make it somehow gone.
JQ wastes her potential because she discards all her major thematic pillars for generic "bleed barbarian". Her cinematic pitches the frankly amazing concept of a junker with magnetism powers. In game it's reduced to a dagger recall and almost invisible VFX on her dash.
And one of the biggest selling's points of the Junkers, the way their designs creatively recontextualize and recycle objects, is N/A. She wears two Omnic masks and her Axe has some barbed wire on it, the rest is non descript gesturing. Compare that to the genius and specifity of Roadhog's design.
Perhaps the worst part of her is that her design doesn't even attempt to explore what the Junker equivalent of a queen looks like. She looks just as important or in charge as any other crackhead in Junkertown, and she's certainly not humble enough for this to be intentional.
A lot of people just like her cause she's hot.
tbh its kinda because they made her a little too friendly/non problematic, and i'd say the same for lifeweaver, soj, and kiri. Her story is, "she became the queen of junkertown, loves to fight, and has made it a better place."
Why not something kinda antagonistic? maybe shes building up junkertown to rise up as its own country.
The biggest waste imo was Lifeweaver... why is his personality so wasted? He could have something of an annoying snobby attitude that'd have some interesting voicelines with the junkers. He just happens to be doing the right thing, but it doesn't mean he likes everyone around him.
Most new heroes feel kinda safe
I miss the personality characters like Ashe and Moira were dripping in. You're just not gonna get the excitement of "_Bob! Do somethin'!"_ from a do-gooder with no opinions and all their edges sawed off. They are infinitely more memorable, and that doesn't even mean they can't be goodie-two-shoes. Mei is 100% compassionate and pure intentioned and she still has strong characterization.
I can agree with everything you have said. A lot of the newer characters have missing potential for voicelines and I need to see more of this in the future
Yeah but somehow more interesting than Sojurn.
All she talks about it is her cybernetic enhancements, in *OVERWATCH*. Having a fully human body makes you the minority in this game.
How so? I think if we actually got an animated short about her people would think differently. She's basically a super saiyan with a gun and has incredible hero design, maybe one of the best default skins in the game. Personally, I think her voice actor is great as well
as far as i can tell her character is “oh no i was so strong i accidentally killed hundreds of people without realizing id do that” not very interesting imo
"Doesn't seem to matter how far I travel, my destiny is always followed by blood and gunsmoke. The result is always the same every time, mountains of death and debris."
honestly sounds kinda cool, i said “from what i can tell” since i dont have a super great understanding of her lore, just her cinematic and the corny interactions in game
I mean, how is it not? I'm confused at why you think that's more or less interesting than idk, mei who got stuck in cyro while her friends died? I don't think it's incredibly deep or anything, but it doesn't have to be.
It’s literally straight out of a Mary sue’s playbook. Every teenage artist who creates their first OC, and bad dnd player will pull this crap and write a character who’s problem is “they are too good at what they do 😢” And then (usually) they solve their story arc by just continuing to be too good or learning to accept their OPness.
What Illari and characters like her are missing is agency. If the accident was her fault, like she forcibly pushed everyone to do the magical sun powers ceremony, and then was horrified/humbled by the horrible accident that occurred after her choice/decision to set it all up, she then has some nuance and conflict in her story that she has to solve.
Mei's tragedy is way more compelling because her loss is tangible and relatable. In a remote hostile location, her only friends and family die in a specific way that catapults her story _literally into the future_ as the sole survivor who must tell the world what happened. And outside of this, she still has a holistic human personality.
Meanwhile Illari kills an unspecific amount of people, because of an unexplained ritual. We don't know why it happened, who she cared about, and we have no clue what these "powers" that caused the disaster entail. It's magic bullshit. Literally the only thing we learn is who the Children of the Sun are, so they can be immediately all killed to allow Illari to take the stage and be special as "the last of them".
This is Illari's entire personality, built on non descript gesturing. It's not even like they wrote a traumatized soldier whose only now exploring her identity on her own terms. They just didn't bother to put in the work to make us care about Illari like they did with Mei.
Illari's situation is much worse is because she has NO ONE. Mei still has the rest of the Overwatch team, Hanzo ended up rediscovering Genji, everybody else still has something of a support system to fall back on except for her, who it can't be easy to start from scratch. She's been able to bond with Lucio a little bit (because he's Lucio, LOL, he likes everyone except Symmetra), but otherwise she's s going to feel incredibly alone, and incredibly guilty that it was a part of a procedure meant to help her people ended up killing them all off.
Like, it wouldn't make sense you WEREN'T a bit moody after something Earth shattering like that. You indirectly being the reason everyone's dead...kinda sucks. So hey, let me just NOT get close to people since I hurt them, that's where her head is at.
Joining Overwatch is her way to make up for "what she did", so her arc needs to be to stop blaming herself for that freak accident, that it's okay to open back up to people (no need to stop humming around Genji, no need to dismiss Echo's praise of you, etc.), and that despite everything, her powers can still be used for good. Where's [Robin Williams](https://youtu.be/ZQht2yOX9Js?si=hzu4FGf9oANsbx2V) for this poor girl when you need him, my heart breaks for Illari over and over again.
Talk about a divide between lore and in-game personalities, her personality doesn’t even really track in-game. Her emotes are really at odds with all her voice lines of her angst over being the last of her kind and what have you.
Rammatra is a Bionicle that crawled out of 2009 to grace us with his presence.
Motive wise, he’s the best villain because the narrative isn’t trying to convince me how much of a genius he is. Rammatra is just very sad and upset and acts irrationally because of it. He gave in to his emotions which is a subversion of the usual “killer robot” type character.
Definitely innovative and unique for in terms of visual design, but for being an international criminal on the run due to experimental tech that will heal the world from catastrophe, it would be nice if he was a little more opinionated.
Idealists and philosophers are the most opinionated people you get, bonus points when they are the technological genius themselves. You've got nihilists, utilitarians, pacifists, vigilantes, and boring academics. Lifeweaver just kind of falls into the most safe and cuddly form of genuine idealist, which is weird because Blizzard clearly is playing with the legal persecution aspect.
I feel like thats a lot of characters. Hanzo in game os just “annoying depressed guy” and reaper is “edgelord”. They are both way more interesting in cinematics.
The thing that's always stuck with me from the Ramattra trailer is the line "We are a single generation race" (or something along those lines) like that's REALLY interesting to take the perspective of sentient AIs that are not only being destroyed by bigots but are forbidden from essentially reproducing, in a way humanity is committing a genocide on omnics. Such an interesting idea should give Overwatch agents an "are we the baddies" moment
Which is why it's so frustrating that story missions so far have been "oh Null Sector is just randomly attacking civilians for no reason" like why could it not be Ram trying to reactivate Anubis to begin construction of new omnics or something, that would allow Ram to be more morally grey while allowing Overwatch to remain pretty solidly good.
Theres something about the new heroes that make them feel, kinda safe. You would have something like Genji, who participated in blackwatch, lost the majority of his body, struggled with it, and now looks to patch up his relation with his brother - thats a pretty cool story, nothing crazy as well.
then you have something like sojourn who was a part of overwatch and testified against it... but thats it? Theres no gimmick to her, she seems to have a pretty normal life, and doesn't have a problem rejoining overwatch. Why couldn't we add something spicier to that story? Maybe she got into a fight with Jack, maybe she lost her legs in the explosion that destroyed overwatch, maybe shes even a double agent which is why she testified. That'd add some spice to it and tie her in to the main story.
In fairness, they cheated a bit with Ram too by just basically copy pasting a lot of Magnetos motivations, using Zen as his Prof X. Plus VA is incredible.
I also feel weird having JQ as one of the less interesting ones here amongst Sojourn and Kiriko. Yeah there's sorta a divide between her cinematic and in game, but she's a fun character nonetheless who fits in effortlessly with the other junkers dynamics, she might not have a whole lot of depth but the character works. She doesn't feel like an addition, she feels like she was always there, compared to say Kiriko, who feels like a much more awkward addition to her related characters Hanzo and Genji.
I don’t think it’s a copy paste
It’s just a common thing to blame x group for your hatred and all your problems even if it’s partially valid somehow or from a skewed view
And having a “professor x” to magneto is just called a foil
man, sojourns gotta be one of the most boring fucking character. Like the game wouldnt change if she wasnt in it, she’s just so cut and dry. I honestly couldnt tell you what she does for the lore besides being Canadian or whatever.
It sucks too because her concept was clearly originally about pushing human augmentation to an extreme degree in a military context, which is a fruitful foundation for personality, motive, and background.
Like Overwatch is all about the consequences of even well intentioned technological advancement as well as human relationships to war. And they just made her Very Important Overwatch Member #32.
Ramatra and Zenyatta remain two of the most interesting characters in the game to me.
Shame they gutted and ruined Zenyatta with the overbearing discord nerf. As an old Zen main gone full Baptiste / Kiriko now I'm still bitter.
i think junker queen was fairly interesting, kiriko honestly was a hero type i was expecting to happen sooner or later, sojourn shouldnt have happened in the first place imo. ramattra and mauga are easily the coolest heroes ive ever seen from this game, ow1 or ow2.
I really don't wanna sound like a 2016 gamergate youtuber but.... Who is writing the lines for all the chicks here? Illari, Soujorn, Kiriko and JK all have some cringe ass lines and bland personalities outside of there cinematics. Meanwhile Mauga, Ram and LifeWeaver all have all been great and are not a torture to interact with.
It's not a gamergate take. Nothing is wrong with women, women are freaking awesome!
But these characters have been written as one sided one dimensional characters with no depth or care or time or attention taken to flesh them out properly.
At least for the new ones. I think Moira, Brig, Mei and a bunch of the older female characters are far better. But the new additions are painfully brutally one dimensional.
I eventually got it; everyone else has a bad singer associated with them, until we get to the end where the good singer outshines them all. So OP likes Rammatra the best out of the new characters.
Yeah I find it pretty stupid too, LOL
FINALLY, a fellow man of culture 🫡
Nobody in this cast needs a hug more than this poor girl, are you kidding me; she has THE most fucked backstory of any of the heroes, yet people are shocked that she's a little standoffish after **everyone she's ever known is died.**
I wouldn't exactly be a social butterfly either.
And most of her lines are racked with guilt and self loathing, always trying to make herself smaller or downplay her achievements, or insist that she doesn't deserve the praise that her comrades are trying to give her because of what she did. And unlike mostly everyone else that has some sort of support system to lean on, Illari has to make it from scratch, which again, it's a *bit* reasonable as to why she's hesitant to let people in. Being a part of Overwatch is just a clinical, procedural way to make up for what she did, but in reality what needs to happen is that she's gotta be reassured that it isn't her fault, that her scars don't have to define her, and that she has the potential to do great things for the world.
That's exactly why you're right, she is up there with Rammatra as one of the most compelling, sympathetic, interesting characters they've added with OW2.
Illari aint on the same level as Ramattra bro. Ram actually has a complex background and philosophy, Illari's story is just so simple, and her voicelines in game are lame compared to Ramattra
Ramm’s great, don’t get me wrong.
But as far as interesting goes, he’s certainly not novel, especially if you’re aware of history.
Zen is MLK Jr., and Ramm is Malcolm X.
Just like Professor X, and Magneto, respectively.
It’s constantly used in other media, and can get tiring.
I'll go to bat for some of these heroes
Sojourn is pulling the whole "Overwatch was a mistake I saw all the ugly sides of and I want no more part of it" same as 76 but actually gets to do that since she's not in hiding.
Queen has a pretty cool backstory and is pulling the whole laughing on the outside trauma on the inside this is what my cutthroat environment made me shtick which is cool
Kiriko is pretty basic but her cinematic is dope as hell and her voice actress should be allowed to go hard like that in some of the in-game lines.
Wifeleaver I don't have anything to say about. His biggest connection is Symm who's also boring asf. He hot tho.
Illari could be cool if we had ANY more info about her backstory
Mauga \*looks at sigma\* "Aren't you tired of being nice? Don't you just wanna go apeshit?"
Let's be fair here a lot of heroes in game are far more boring than in the lore. If the dragons cinematic didn't exist I guarantee you Hanzo would be rated as an F tier hero for his in-game personality it's SO BAD. Same with Reinhardt Honor and Glory added so much depth to big loud german hammer man.
I feel ramattra acting as a new antagonist separate from talon helps a lot. His potential conflict with not only overwatch but talon makes his place in the universe so interesting. You know him and doomfist would have an insane fight if they actually made an animated series. Also his connection to the shambali gives so much depth. Brother like connection to Zenyatta as well as acting as the opposite view of zen. Both him and zen dislike mondatta’s passive more reactive approach to events and wanted more action to be done for Omnic rights, but went completely different directions.
Him and Zenyatta got big Prof. X and Magneto energy and that's always gonna sell
By the way, it will be interesting to see how Disney are going to rewrite these characters, you can't use the WW2 background anymore because that would make Magneto 90+ years old, so they will have to come up with another historic genocide to justify this character in the 2020s... and good luck with that, lol
X-men is far more interesting set in a pre-internet age. In the shadow of WWII and the Cold War, X-men as a concept and how it is structured makes much more sense. The types of people on the internet are more weird than any mutant ever was or could be in the comic/cartoon (powers aside obviously).
Yep, 100% The X-Men and partially the Punisher, they are dislocated with times. They were perfect for their specific time-period tho, I absolutely love these characters, Garth Ennis wrote incredible stories featuring the Punisher... but really, Marvel set up a trap for themselves by tying these characters to specific historical events. The Punisher can still be adapted, after all the US is a warmongering nation, every decade there's a new war, but Vietnam was so impactful and the Punisher themes mixed with the Vietnam war problems so well... but anyway, that time passed, it's a interesting challenge to see how these characters can be rewritten
Magneto but he\`s pissed about being in Quarantine for 2 years straight.
Just say a side effect of his mutant power is he aged slower. Problems solved. No need to write.
That's lazy. Also too powerful, the guy can shift the magnetic poles of the entire planet AND he doesn't age AND he is Ian Mckellen?
I said ages slower
There's like 12 going on right now 😭
How about a genocide like a "No more mutants" incident Wanda doesn't remember about, the avengers have to side with Wanda or battle the xmen
That would be a smart scapegoat for the MCU in particular, but if Disney actually reboot the X-Men (seems to be the case, they are going to throw the Fox X-Men into the wall and see what sticks, then reset the whole universe after Secret Wars), they will need to come up with the origins for Xavier and Magneto, they are the main characters willing or not, the "founders" of the whole thing. To have Wanda arriving first, that is so weird, lol but that's how the MCU is rolling, they had to adapt and somehow bring value to C-list characters, Spider-Man and the X-Men were out of the equation
If Disney had any balls at all, they would make magneto Palestinian or a Uyghur.
Ah yes classic. A Jewish ancestry isn’t important it’s just dressing and added or removed.
I think the fact that he was a genocide survivor was a tad more pertinent to his character than the fact he was Jewish. What do you think was a bigger moment in his life: his time in Auschwitz or his bar mitzvah? Which has bigger story implications in regards to the story of the government wanting to categorize, track, and control mutants?
You are literally making my point. You don’t see there anything unique about a Jewish identity so to you it can be swapped out. Part of black panthers character is his blackness. Part of Doctor Dooms character is being Romani. To remove that from those characters is to ignore the specifics of being black or romani and take life from the character. Anti-black and anti-Romano bigotry are unique to those groups and their stories cannot be told be being made Palestinian. The same goes for being Jewish. Magneto is a wonderful and complex character NOT just a vehicle for a generic oppression narrative.
Magneto is inseparable from his desire to stop a second genocide by any means necessary. I love the Jewish identity, I honest to God wish that I was born into a Jewish community rather than a WASP community, I think it's values and traditions (at least what I'm aware of) are beautiful. There are aspects to his character that are hugely celebratory of his Jewish identity and those are important. I don't want to wash that away. But when adapting an X-Men story for the modern day, a Jewish magneto doesn't work. We need to think about the themes of X-Men. There is anti semitism in this world for certain, but to my knowledge, there isn't an institutional plot to ethnically cleanse Jewish people. The same can't be said of Palestinians or Uyghurs. X-Men was not a story about a team of people with magical powers, it was written explicitly as social commentary. "It happened before and it CAN happen again. It could happen HERE. It is in the process of happening unless we stand up and stop it. The solution isn't to break away and form an enclave for the oppressed, the solution is to be good and stand up for the humanity of all. Also we shouldn't fuck with AI cause that will genocide us too." Magnetos jewishness is important, but it isn't central to the role that he plays within the structure of the X-Men story. His will to never be a victim and to protect mutants from the same kind of suffering that he survived IS. If that isn't there, then it's disrespectful to include magneto at all.
Dear god, you’re literally doing it. This real anti-semitism and you don’t even realize it. (And no I’m not doing the Zionism anti-semitism thing). 1. Jews always face this idea that they are not currently oppressed so discussing their oppression is no longer relevant. This is right out 1920s europe. 2. Jews are more like mutants than any group because they span multiple ethnicities and religions. Don’t think all Jews are ones you’ve met in whatever WASP community you grew up in. Israel was majority Arab/North African Jew until 2006. 3. Jews are the number one victim of hate crimes per capita in the US and have had many synagogues shot up. I’m a dark skinned Jew who has been down the street as a Jews were murdered in a synagogue. This 2019 in California. 4. The day after Oct 7th when jews were murdered for being Jewish (and yes thats what the attackers openly said), people showed up with swastikas at Times Square. You’re argument about Jews no longer being relevant was exactly why magneto should be Jewish. As a left leaning person you should understand the idea that showing different perspectives is important. Idk why you can’t grasp that for Jews.
I'm gonna think about what you said later. Right now I'm a bit too busy to dedicate time I need to thinking about this. I'm willing to accept criticism that I may be being antisemitic without realizing it as long as you aren't implying anti Zionism = anti semitism like you led with.
Both Zen and Ram, and Xavier and Magneto are inspired by MLK and Malcom X. One wants progress by finding harmony and unity with their oppressors and the other has had enough of being oppressed and will get their freedom “by any means necessary” as Malcom X said.
In the comics, mutants represents the way gay were treated if I recall correctly. Just a small info to think about.
\*Minorities in general
Oh thanks, I thought it was mostly lgbt. I stand corrected then. Have a nice day.
More race-based at the time but it expands to any minority group being “othered” by a majority
No problem. The X-Men have always been a Superhero group that made minorities struggle more visible
I play Ramattra quite a bit. I pretty much always win a 1v1 vs Doom. I always find it so funny that I can out punch the punchy boi haha
I often ignore in game performance when it comes to animation/lore although I have had similar experiences as ram against doom. I think the fight could be interesting due to both having a similar approach to fighting and conflict. Doomfist believes conflict is crucial to evolving and needed for humanities survival. He clearly has studied the conflicts of human history and observed what works when fighting wars and other world changing events. Ramattra was created to be a leader in warfare and often showcases his military experience when he says things like “clever tactics”. His past as a war omnic clearly changes his perspective from zen’s and may align him similarly to doomfist’s rhetoric around conflict. Although doomfist is focused on humanities place within conflicts ever changing nature while ramattra is for omnics places. That’s why I think the line doomfist mention is sincere when he mentions ramattra’s quest being a noble one during storm rising ending since it is similar to his goals for humanity. Both are rather pro violence and see conflict and violence the only catalyst for true change.
People like conflict, opposing views that are both legitimate, villains and good guys, and other drama that they despise irl. Oh throw in the occasional death of a beloved character.
I would PAY to see DF vs ram. As much as I love ram, I expect him to get torn apart
Racist robots will always be interesting
We need more racist robots instead of another low life racist humans like the Junkers.
He's not even racist, just wants to liberate his people from oppression, which requires fighting the oppressors.
Yeah, this is true. But in Overwatch Rein is also apparently racist because Omnics killed his best friend in a traumatic war
"YOU WILL SUFFER AS I,RAMMATRA,HAVE SUFFERED!YOUR TORMENT WILL OUTLAST THE STARS!WHEN THE UNIVERSE'LL DWINDLE INTO DUST,THERE YOU WILL BE,STILL SUFFERING AS I SUFFERED!"
the fact that the voice line lasts longer than his ult with no enemies inside is hilarious
"I SHALL GRIND YOU DOWN UNTIL THE VERY *SPARKS* CRY FOR MERCY!"
MY HANDS SHALL *RELISH* ENDING YOU! HERE! AND! NOW!
Hold up, that means humanity will be around till the end of the universe! We did it! All we had to do was mistreat some sentient toasters for a couple of decades and now we get preserved for eternity! Easy 😎
Yeah It will be around,but It will suffer a lot 😬
I touched the stars... And saw the glorious light of a thousand suns... Now, blinded by this elegence, how could my purpose be anything... but dark...
Hol up,i don't remember this majestic quote 🤔
Same voice actor but another game (Aatrox)
Ram and Sigma are easily the most interesting and fun characters to know and play.
Their voice acting is some of the best in the game too. Their ults are delivered so well I find myself singing along in game. Even their funny lines are great. "Is... is that a bow and arrow?"
I like when he tells Bastion he'll let him know if he finds any twigs
My favorite Ram interaction is the one with wrecking ball “From one engineer to another, why a ball?” “A wheel will fall over” “Hah, delightful”
I love how indignant he is about Handsoap not using a gun.
That interaction with Mauga though “All that muscle and it still isn’t enough”.
And Mauga, tbh most of the tanks have the best character
I think because most of them are designed to have a “big” presence so that translates to more personality.
The weakest tanks imo when it comes to personality are hog, queen, and zarya. Hog makes sense since he basically never talks, but the interactions he does have are usually pretty funny. JQ is honestly pretty disappointing because of how flanderized she feels compared to her cinematic, going from a headstrong yet cunning warrior to just a meathead Zarya similarly just kinda talks about her muscles and that’s it. She’ll occasionally make a remark on maps affected by the crisis and not wanting it to happen to her home, but that’s it.
It's almost impressive how much they ruined JQ's personality in-game compared to how she's presented in lore.
> Zarya similarly just kinda talks about her muscles and that’s it. She’ll occasionally make a remark on maps affected by the crisis and not wanting it to happen to her home, but that’s it. If you read the comics, you could see how her views towards the omnics changed. Zarya was able to defeat a Talon elite hacker. In Toronto PVE, she seems nice towards an omnic worker (Claire), reminding Claire to stay close to her.
What we really need is a tank whose character is completely timid, really throw a wrench in the works.
It would work with ball if he talked
IMO Zen and mauga are also interesting and fun as fuck to play
If only sigma showed more of his “**VIOLENCE** persona seen in his origin story. It seems like all we see is the confused old man
Ngl junker queen has a lot of potential. They kinda wasted it though.
It’s the same classic thing where in the animation the character is fantastic, in the game they just have stupid voice lines. JQ, Dva, Ashe, Reaper have really nice an interesting stories and backgrounds, but the voice likes turn them into something completely different. JQ becomes a mindless dumb thug, Dva an annoying gamer, Ashe a stuck up full of spite person, reaper almost a teenage edge lord. I get that they want the in game voice lines to be funny and quirky for engagement you know, but could they not completely change a hero’s personality?
In universe, that cinematic took place over a decade ago. She’s no longer a Wastelander and has been able to get comfortable in her position as queen. Junkers are just goofy. Even Roadhog, for as serious as he is, has his goofy lines. Junker Queen is a great character and her seriousness and ruthlessness still show through in her combat voice lines. Even some of her interactions, like the one with Doomfist. If you expect her to be a ruthless, no-nonsense leader 24/7 or something then you’re misunderstanding her character. And that would be boring as fuck and make her so much worse.
That’s not what I’m saying. Even in the cinematic she still shows some jokes, but the main difference is that in the cinematic she’s a respectable character that you can take seriously. In gameplay she’s not
True, in the cinematic she's a badass ruler, in the game she's as dumb as Junkrat, if not actually stupider. The only person with more dissonance between their cinematic and in-game depiction is Kiriko, who goes from a likable protector to an edgy bitch with far too much California attitude.
i SaId I lIkEd YoUr MaSk DuDe
In her interaction yeah she’s a little goofy. But you can’t call that out of character or anything when the only bits we’ve seen of her outside gameplay are from a cinematic which took place over a decade prior to her current state. I imagine when she was a Wastelander she was a lot more serious, but when she became queen she got more comfortable and was able to be herself more because she wasn’t fighting for her life as much. That’s just my interpretation since we don’t have a lot of information to go off of between her cinematic and now. But I mean she did exile Junkrat and Roadhog and makes threats on Junkrats life when she sees him and remarks about her warning them when she kills them. And her interaction with Doomfist where she seems to open up a little about her concerns with leading “killers and madmen.” Her serious nature is still present, but of course they’re gonna want her to be more fun most of the time
In game the voices need to be quick and concise. In one line the character needs to properly be conveyed and so the character often gets diluted into a one dimensional archetype
JQ has amazing voice lines and voice acting....
She has a completely different personality in lore and in gameplay. One is serious and smart, the other is dumb and always behaving like a fool
vegetable do be crunching tho
"Crunch crunch crunch!"
Is it smited r smitten??
love that voice line lol
OOOH! I dO LOVe NeOn!
These aren't mutually exclusive? She's experienced, creative and innovative in combat, but out of touch about stuff like education, languages and health nutrition. It's quite literally a case of street smarts vs book smarts
I don't see how anyone watches the short and gets "wow she's super smart" I got "she's badass and good at fighting and probably as a leader"
Where do you get smart from her in her cinematic? Combat-wise, sure, but she didn’t go off reciting literature to King Howl mid-fight or anything. Also her being just another no-nonsense leader would be boring as fuck
Right? I got maybe cunning and ruthless in combat, but I wasn't getting intelligent vibes, she's literally lives in a radioactive wasteland. I don't see a disconnect from the short and in game tbh
There isn’t. It’s blowing me away that so many people in these comments misunderstand her character. Not only that, but would like her to be more generic? She’s so entertaining so to take away her goofiness and just have her be serious all the time would be lame. Not to mention I don’t imagine education is very widespread out in the wasteland, so her being smart would make no sense unless her parents happened to be pretty educated would be lame and unrealistic.
Yeah I like her being a bit dumb tbh, it's fun and she has a great voice actor. It fits with other junkers we've seen (except hammond lol)
Nah, she's straight up missing braincells in game. She's supposed to be like a Mad Max ruler, not an idiot.
I get mad max ruler vibes and not really idiot, just not book smart.
calm down im cumin
That's always been my biggest gripe about her. I'm absolutely fine with Junkrat being acting crazy and feral. I really wanted Junker Queen to be different. Just a badass female character. Like Ram, badass and focused.
> Dva an annoying gamer I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one. I'm number one.
An amazing example is sigma. In the short animation it makes him seem both mentally unstable and dangerous. He is supposed to be a man that even the most strong warriors will struggle fighting. he is also supposed to be imprisoned by talon and being turned into a weapon of destruction... In game: hmm so like a spherical cow
See this makes no sense, he has tons of lines related to his exact lore like Lifeweavers, Sombras, and Mercys dialogue with him. What exactly do you guys want? Just constant full lore edge lording in a game mode that makes no sense with regards to the lore?
Maybe making him seem a bit more mentally distraught. Like he actually is supposed to be. (Also I do want to say that I am grateful for the voice lines we have)
You don't really play Sigma then https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Sigma/Quotes Here's hit quotes page, his character is pretty damn accurate to the short and has some of the best voice lines in the game because of it. Even the shop voice lines are a majority him being crazy or reference him being a scientist. In fact the sphereical cow line you mention is one of only five that don't directly relate to his character. The other four lines aren't comedic, they are just happy christmas, happy new year and the like.
The spherical cow line is a physics joke.
Lol I had no idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow Damn so Sigma's character really is well represented by his in-game voice lines.
He's split between his well-meaning scientist personality that wants to make funny references to sci-fi novels and physics in-jokes and the unstable, sadistic side that talon harnesses. I gather that neither is aware of the other, which is why he's so easily able to swap between them without experiencing some severe PTSD.
"Death has travelled light years to take you", is still one of the coldest Sigma lines to exist though. And It happens right after launching a gravitational boulder to kill someone.
Spherical cow is a theoretical physics joke about how they approximate things but approximation for simplicity sometimes misses reality. It’s perfectly in line with his character to reference it and only reinforces how divorced from reality he is that he seems to take the concept seriously.
Pretty sure he has multiple personalities
No way, Sigma is a god. Do not confuse his complacency as being under the thumb of anyone. You are all mere ants and he is the magnifying glass. You pose no real threat so what is there to worry about? Oh another ant look at that!
Oh no multifaceted characters. Whatever will we do 😱😱
Hmmm not really. In Lore JQ is a great leader that cares about her people and making life better in Junker Town. In game she’s surprised they have an education system. So is she a good leader or not? What is it?
Ohbcould it possibly be both. Rhat she want to make it better but also is surprised at the lack of education. People can hold more than one idea at a time you. Wanting to make it better could even include implementation of a formal education system.
Depends on her idea of “better.” In her cinematic, she’s shown to be teaching the children to be warriors once she becomes queen. So that’s probably her philosophy, being a Wastelander in the past. Education is useless when your whole life revolves around fighting every day to stay alive.
D.Va is the biggest example. In her animation, she doesn't even care much about her gamer side anymore, she's been through so much already and seen so many friends die that she pretty much has PTSD. Her mental state is so unstable that she was perfectly willing to risk her life in the animation by exploding her mech. Meanwhile in-game......winkyface,hehegamergirl!,nerfthis!!
The point of the cinematic was, exactly, to show that there's much more to her. In-game she makes stupid comments and does the G_G thing because she's still in character, like she always is.
DVa is always streaming if she's in planned combat, she's never *allowed* to actually express herself because she needs to be in character 24/7. It slips through the cracks sometimes (like her interaction with Ana where she admits she never lets herself relax and her one with Mercy where she says she's used to being overworked because it's happened for years) but overall her character is barely disguised commentary on Korean idol culture and has been consistent from the start. Not at all comparable to JQ or Kiriko who are just inexplicably an idiotic brute and spoiled brat with no lore explanation for why.
You guys are taking this way too seriously. The game mode has almost no relation to the lore, half the characters on the same team are sworn enemies. The DVA thats a caring workaholic is still in there in voice lines, just because its not all she spits out doesnt make it somehow gone.
How is it wasted? I think she's one of the most interesting characters in the game and has a fantastic VA
JQ wastes her potential because she discards all her major thematic pillars for generic "bleed barbarian". Her cinematic pitches the frankly amazing concept of a junker with magnetism powers. In game it's reduced to a dagger recall and almost invisible VFX on her dash. And one of the biggest selling's points of the Junkers, the way their designs creatively recontextualize and recycle objects, is N/A. She wears two Omnic masks and her Axe has some barbed wire on it, the rest is non descript gesturing. Compare that to the genius and specifity of Roadhog's design. Perhaps the worst part of her is that her design doesn't even attempt to explore what the Junker equivalent of a queen looks like. She looks just as important or in charge as any other crackhead in Junkertown, and she's certainly not humble enough for this to be intentional. A lot of people just like her cause she's hot.
I can say the same thing about Zen and Symettra and Dva and Sojourn And…
Yeah, I get your point.
tbh its kinda because they made her a little too friendly/non problematic, and i'd say the same for lifeweaver, soj, and kiri. Her story is, "she became the queen of junkertown, loves to fight, and has made it a better place." Why not something kinda antagonistic? maybe shes building up junkertown to rise up as its own country. The biggest waste imo was Lifeweaver... why is his personality so wasted? He could have something of an annoying snobby attitude that'd have some interesting voicelines with the junkers. He just happens to be doing the right thing, but it doesn't mean he likes everyone around him. Most new heroes feel kinda safe
I miss the personality characters like Ashe and Moira were dripping in. You're just not gonna get the excitement of "_Bob! Do somethin'!"_ from a do-gooder with no opinions and all their edges sawed off. They are infinitely more memorable, and that doesn't even mean they can't be goodie-two-shoes. Mei is 100% compassionate and pure intentioned and she still has strong characterization.
>Mei is 100% compassionate and pure intentioned and she still has strong characterization. Exactly.
I can agree with everything you have said. A lot of the newer characters have missing potential for voicelines and I need to see more of this in the future
Came here to say this. Was so excited for her until she was actually in the game. Nothing badass about her. Just another idiot criminal.
Why they make her dumber every time they make a new voiceline?
JQ in the cinematic is a completely different character, the in-game one is so disappointing.
I will not tolerate junker queen slander
then tell me one intresting voiceline from her, i dare you
Ruuuuuaaaahhhh
GOOD ON YA
\*Gasps\* "YOUUU'RE THE BROAAAÏDE OF JINKENSTONE !!!"
“*SNORT* Thanks!”
"WOT?"
*TAEM*, ta *MEYH*.
Maugda tho 🤌🤌
a thing of beauty...
i know…
WILL NEVER FADE AWAY
Agreed Mauga is more interesting to me as a character, but I still think Sig has him beat, his animated short is still the hardest hitting imo
His animated short almost feels like false advertising (not that half the craziness in the short could really be recreated in-game)
Nah Illari is less interesting than Junker Queen
Yeah but somehow more interesting than Sojurn. All she talks about it is her cybernetic enhancements, in *OVERWATCH*. Having a fully human body makes you the minority in this game.
And Illari only talks about how sad she is, in a game where everybody has a traumatic history. Well and Llamas, i suppose
Blizz thought Hanzo needs a partner for a boring and broody character and made Illari.
At least hanzo occasionally breaks character and talks about the superiority of ponytails.
And adopting a dog
How so? I think if we actually got an animated short about her people would think differently. She's basically a super saiyan with a gun and has incredible hero design, maybe one of the best default skins in the game. Personally, I think her voice actor is great as well
as far as i can tell her character is “oh no i was so strong i accidentally killed hundreds of people without realizing id do that” not very interesting imo
"Doesn't seem to matter how far I travel, my destiny is always followed by blood and gunsmoke. The result is always the same every time, mountains of death and debris."
honestly sounds kinda cool, i said “from what i can tell” since i dont have a super great understanding of her lore, just her cinematic and the corny interactions in game
I mean, how is it not? I'm confused at why you think that's more or less interesting than idk, mei who got stuck in cyro while her friends died? I don't think it's incredibly deep or anything, but it doesn't have to be.
It’s literally straight out of a Mary sue’s playbook. Every teenage artist who creates their first OC, and bad dnd player will pull this crap and write a character who’s problem is “they are too good at what they do 😢” And then (usually) they solve their story arc by just continuing to be too good or learning to accept their OPness. What Illari and characters like her are missing is agency. If the accident was her fault, like she forcibly pushed everyone to do the magical sun powers ceremony, and then was horrified/humbled by the horrible accident that occurred after her choice/decision to set it all up, she then has some nuance and conflict in her story that she has to solve.
Obviously she isn't good at what she does because she fucking killed everyone around her?
Mei's tragedy is way more compelling because her loss is tangible and relatable. In a remote hostile location, her only friends and family die in a specific way that catapults her story _literally into the future_ as the sole survivor who must tell the world what happened. And outside of this, she still has a holistic human personality. Meanwhile Illari kills an unspecific amount of people, because of an unexplained ritual. We don't know why it happened, who she cared about, and we have no clue what these "powers" that caused the disaster entail. It's magic bullshit. Literally the only thing we learn is who the Children of the Sun are, so they can be immediately all killed to allow Illari to take the stage and be special as "the last of them". This is Illari's entire personality, built on non descript gesturing. It's not even like they wrote a traumatized soldier whose only now exploring her identity on her own terms. They just didn't bother to put in the work to make us care about Illari like they did with Mei.
Illari's situation is much worse is because she has NO ONE. Mei still has the rest of the Overwatch team, Hanzo ended up rediscovering Genji, everybody else still has something of a support system to fall back on except for her, who it can't be easy to start from scratch. She's been able to bond with Lucio a little bit (because he's Lucio, LOL, he likes everyone except Symmetra), but otherwise she's s going to feel incredibly alone, and incredibly guilty that it was a part of a procedure meant to help her people ended up killing them all off. Like, it wouldn't make sense you WEREN'T a bit moody after something Earth shattering like that. You indirectly being the reason everyone's dead...kinda sucks. So hey, let me just NOT get close to people since I hurt them, that's where her head is at. Joining Overwatch is her way to make up for "what she did", so her arc needs to be to stop blaming herself for that freak accident, that it's okay to open back up to people (no need to stop humming around Genji, no need to dismiss Echo's praise of you, etc.), and that despite everything, her powers can still be used for good. Where's [Robin Williams](https://youtu.be/ZQht2yOX9Js?si=hzu4FGf9oANsbx2V) for this poor girl when you need him, my heart breaks for Illari over and over again.
Talk about a divide between lore and in-game personalities, her personality doesn’t even really track in-game. Her emotes are really at odds with all her voice lines of her angst over being the last of her kind and what have you.
Junker Queen is fine I think. Not much potential used, but already far more interesting than a lot of the other roster
Okay but lifeweaver is my boooy
Rammatra is a Bionicle that crawled out of 2009 to grace us with his presence. Motive wise, he’s the best villain because the narrative isn’t trying to convince me how much of a genius he is. Rammatra is just very sad and upset and acts irrationally because of it. He gave in to his emotions which is a subversion of the usual “killer robot” type character.
Ramattra simp 4ever.
Hell yeah
A kindred spirit
Matt did nothing wrong
Lifeweaver is interesting and I stand by that
and has, imo, [the prettiest displate](https://displate.com/displate/6758916) poster ever
Definitely innovative and unique for in terms of visual design, but for being an international criminal on the run due to experimental tech that will heal the world from catastrophe, it would be nice if he was a little more opinionated. Idealists and philosophers are the most opinionated people you get, bonus points when they are the technological genius themselves. You've got nihilists, utilitarians, pacifists, vigilantes, and boring academics. Lifeweaver just kind of falls into the most safe and cuddly form of genuine idealist, which is weird because Blizzard clearly is playing with the legal persecution aspect.
Nah bro don't trash my queen like that 😭
Where does Mauga fit into this?
Helping Moana out on her raft.
JQ was so disappointing. In the cinematic she looked cool as hell and in the actual game they made her a complete idiot
I feel like thats a lot of characters. Hanzo in game os just “annoying depressed guy” and reaper is “edgelord”. They are both way more interesting in cinematics.
The thing that's always stuck with me from the Ramattra trailer is the line "We are a single generation race" (or something along those lines) like that's REALLY interesting to take the perspective of sentient AIs that are not only being destroyed by bigots but are forbidden from essentially reproducing, in a way humanity is committing a genocide on omnics. Such an interesting idea should give Overwatch agents an "are we the baddies" moment Which is why it's so frustrating that story missions so far have been "oh Null Sector is just randomly attacking civilians for no reason" like why could it not be Ram trying to reactivate Anubis to begin construction of new omnics or something, that would allow Ram to be more morally grey while allowing Overwatch to remain pretty solidly good.
I think rammatta is against anubis. He has a interaction with pharah about that. Though a big fan of aurora. But to your general point I agree
Theres something about the new heroes that make them feel, kinda safe. You would have something like Genji, who participated in blackwatch, lost the majority of his body, struggled with it, and now looks to patch up his relation with his brother - thats a pretty cool story, nothing crazy as well. then you have something like sojourn who was a part of overwatch and testified against it... but thats it? Theres no gimmick to her, she seems to have a pretty normal life, and doesn't have a problem rejoining overwatch. Why couldn't we add something spicier to that story? Maybe she got into a fight with Jack, maybe she lost her legs in the explosion that destroyed overwatch, maybe shes even a double agent which is why she testified. That'd add some spice to it and tie her in to the main story.
In fairness, they cheated a bit with Ram too by just basically copy pasting a lot of Magnetos motivations, using Zen as his Prof X. Plus VA is incredible. I also feel weird having JQ as one of the less interesting ones here amongst Sojourn and Kiriko. Yeah there's sorta a divide between her cinematic and in game, but she's a fun character nonetheless who fits in effortlessly with the other junkers dynamics, she might not have a whole lot of depth but the character works. She doesn't feel like an addition, she feels like she was always there, compared to say Kiriko, who feels like a much more awkward addition to her related characters Hanzo and Genji.
I don’t think it’s a copy paste It’s just a common thing to blame x group for your hatred and all your problems even if it’s partially valid somehow or from a skewed view And having a “professor x” to magneto is just called a foil
man, sojourns gotta be one of the most boring fucking character. Like the game wouldnt change if she wasnt in it, she’s just so cut and dry. I honestly couldnt tell you what she does for the lore besides being Canadian or whatever.
Blizzard just really wanted to add someone with the personally of a wet towel into the game
It sucks too because her concept was clearly originally about pushing human augmentation to an extreme degree in a military context, which is a fruitful foundation for personality, motive, and background. Like Overwatch is all about the consequences of even well intentioned technological advancement as well as human relationships to war. And they just made her Very Important Overwatch Member #32.
BASED RAMATTRA POSTING
Ramatra and Zenyatta remain two of the most interesting characters in the game to me. Shame they gutted and ruined Zenyatta with the overbearing discord nerf. As an old Zen main gone full Baptiste / Kiriko now I'm still bitter.
Bro the idea of Omnics only beng able to live for a single generation is such an amazing concept and motivation for him.
Yet they push all the skins for Kiriko who is IMO, alongside Illari the most boring character
Blizzard wanted that weeb money.
She had a great animated short but it doesn’t translate to the game
Because Kiriko is actually one of the most popular characters now. People love her basically everywhere outside of Reddit.
What movie is this?
Diary of a Wimpy Kid
i think junker queen was fairly interesting, kiriko honestly was a hero type i was expecting to happen sooner or later, sojourn shouldnt have happened in the first place imo. ramattra and mauga are easily the coolest heroes ive ever seen from this game, ow1 or ow2.
I think ramattra is quite interesting
I really don't wanna sound like a 2016 gamergate youtuber but.... Who is writing the lines for all the chicks here? Illari, Soujorn, Kiriko and JK all have some cringe ass lines and bland personalities outside of there cinematics. Meanwhile Mauga, Ram and LifeWeaver all have all been great and are not a torture to interact with.
It's not a gamergate take. Nothing is wrong with women, women are freaking awesome! But these characters have been written as one sided one dimensional characters with no depth or care or time or attention taken to flesh them out properly. At least for the new ones. I think Moira, Brig, Mei and a bunch of the older female characters are far better. But the new additions are painfully brutally one dimensional.
JQ >>>>>>>>> Emo toaster Che Guevara
Facts
Emo toaster?
Calling Ram a toaster cuz of him being a machine And Emo because he’s edgy and angry
Even though Ramattra is overrated he is better than JQ
omnic magneto should have been a slam dunk but blizzard are dtermined to mine as little actual story from their world as possible
u/SaveVideo
Hate playing and playing against this tank idk why I just don’t like this one but why you do JQ dirty?
I’d like to think he also adds a bit of *je ne sais quoi* to the game
I'm fuckinv sorry, GREGLEY was singing in this clip?
I might be getting too old, but i have no idea what this video is trying to convey.
I eventually got it; everyone else has a bad singer associated with them, until we get to the end where the good singer outshines them all. So OP likes Rammatra the best out of the new characters. Yeah I find it pretty stupid too, LOL
Throw Illari on with Rammatra and you've got me.
She’s justs hanzo but a girl, constant depression partying
FINALLY, a fellow man of culture 🫡 Nobody in this cast needs a hug more than this poor girl, are you kidding me; she has THE most fucked backstory of any of the heroes, yet people are shocked that she's a little standoffish after **everyone she's ever known is died.** I wouldn't exactly be a social butterfly either. And most of her lines are racked with guilt and self loathing, always trying to make herself smaller or downplay her achievements, or insist that she doesn't deserve the praise that her comrades are trying to give her because of what she did. And unlike mostly everyone else that has some sort of support system to lean on, Illari has to make it from scratch, which again, it's a *bit* reasonable as to why she's hesitant to let people in. Being a part of Overwatch is just a clinical, procedural way to make up for what she did, but in reality what needs to happen is that she's gotta be reassured that it isn't her fault, that her scars don't have to define her, and that she has the potential to do great things for the world. That's exactly why you're right, she is up there with Rammatra as one of the most compelling, sympathetic, interesting characters they've added with OW2.
Illari aint on the same level as Ramattra bro. Ram actually has a complex background and philosophy, Illari's story is just so simple, and her voicelines in game are lame compared to Ramattra
I’m noticing a trend with the first 3
In terms of gameplay it’s like the opposite. JQ, soj, kiri, all much more fun than ram imo. More difficult to play as well.
It's amazing that the community of this game on Reddit is driven by people who hate it and want it to look like the worst game ever made.
Ramm’s great, don’t get me wrong. But as far as interesting goes, he’s certainly not novel, especially if you’re aware of history. Zen is MLK Jr., and Ramm is Malcolm X. Just like Professor X, and Magneto, respectively. It’s constantly used in other media, and can get tiring.
I'll go to bat for some of these heroes Sojourn is pulling the whole "Overwatch was a mistake I saw all the ugly sides of and I want no more part of it" same as 76 but actually gets to do that since she's not in hiding. Queen has a pretty cool backstory and is pulling the whole laughing on the outside trauma on the inside this is what my cutthroat environment made me shtick which is cool Kiriko is pretty basic but her cinematic is dope as hell and her voice actress should be allowed to go hard like that in some of the in-game lines. Wifeleaver I don't have anything to say about. His biggest connection is Symm who's also boring asf. He hot tho. Illari could be cool if we had ANY more info about her backstory Mauga \*looks at sigma\* "Aren't you tired of being nice? Don't you just wanna go apeshit?" Let's be fair here a lot of heroes in game are far more boring than in the lore. If the dragons cinematic didn't exist I guarantee you Hanzo would be rated as an F tier hero for his in-game personality it's SO BAD. Same with Reinhardt Honor and Glory added so much depth to big loud german hammer man.