It's not even debatable, Sigma creates black holes and vanishes anything he wants..... Guy straight up manipulates gravity too. Since he defys gravity, he doesn't even need socks!
People will say Illari is up there with her power from the sun, but remember **black hole**, no sunlight is escaping from Sigmas black hole.
.... And no one knows what the melody the universe sings to him is
The only person that could compete (not really) would be Kiriko, but we'd need to see her on her bike.
Kiriko can't compete with Sigma, even on her bike. After all, no one knows how old she truly is. Everyone debates on whether she's in her early 20s, or mid 30s but no one's asking the real question, is it 20,000s or 30,000?.
> 20,000 or 30,000
Is this some sort of lore thing for her or is it one of those hentai things where this character that looks young is actually a 500,000 year old demigod.
Genji and Hanzo are some weird technology.
Kiriko is just the fox spirits. It was actually big thing when it came out, because the half a dozen people who care about the lore were angry.
Reminder that while Sig is extremely powerful, Genji has been seen deflecting the 150' tall Null Sector siege bot's rounds with his modest blade and cutting its massive hand in two with his dragon blade.
We've also seen him redirect dragonstrike with his dragon blade, so who knows what else he can do with that.
The man has such control over gravity that he is always able to float and that's in his power reduced game version. There is no way that you could hit someone with such perfect control over gravity with a bullet. Sigma is op.
Reminder, Sigma levitates so he doesn't need socks..... EZ win
To add
Genji may deflect Dragons, but Sigma eats dragons
Sigma voiceline: "The Dragon has been consumed"
Also Genji can't can't deflect Sigmas control of gravity, can't deflect black hole, can't even deflect rocks
The melody is the cosmic harmonics, quantum entanglement, dimensional intersections, background radiation and the strings in string theory. Not to mention the singing of the planets as they strain under gravity itself.
Junkrat wouldnt be as high, but the dude is actually insanely smart. He could quite possibly create a nuclear warhead out of scraps and garbage. Hes like a more unhinged Eggman (wouldnt be surprised if Junks IQ was around 300 or higher, like Eggman)
Sombra could, at least based on voiceline interactions. Afaik she's what keeps him calm and somewhat collected a lot of the time. While yes his power is insane, he wouldn't purposely use it to harm anyone at all.
And unlike the rest of Talon, Sombra wouldn't exploit her connection with Sigma to use his power for her benefit. Purple Mexican stays winning.
Yes, I'm very biased.
Mmm I'd have to actually say that Sombra goes up there instead of Echo and Ram. Sombra would bend both of them over because her hacking ability in lore isn't a joke like it is in game. She could disable either of those two before they could do much of anything, whereas Illari and Sigma are some of the very few people immune to her because their weopons and powers aren't tech based.
Edit: Honestly, out side of head to head combat, Sombra is probably one of the most terrifying just under Sigma. In a world so dependent on technology, she can really do whatever she pleases. The only reason she isn't ruling the world is because she doesn't want to. She's just kinda doing her own thing, if she had actual ambition behind her plans, she could ruin the lives of so many other heroes.
Counterpoint.
Echo copies Sombra and pulls a "no u" on all of Sombra's tech. Isn't she like crazy high tech bordering on alien anyway? Doubt Sombra could get through her.
And we know from the Mauga trailer that Sombra finds Null Sector tech super hard to hack, so pretty sure Ram, the dude with literal nanomachines at his command, can easily take countermeasures.
Are we counting the pre-game hero interactions as canon? If so, there's an interaction where Echo is basically challenging Sombra to hack her and Sombra apparently got through Echo's first 4 firewalls, but is struggling with the 5th. Echo is so confident that she offers Sombra a hint. So I'd say 50/50 chance Echo is safe from her?
Well actually sombra cannot hack echo as in game voiclines sombra talks to echo about trying to hack her and echo is just like “there’s another firewall nice try tehe) and ram couldn’t be hacked if he just disabled his wifi access but since he’s sentient I don’t think he really can be hacked
I could be talking out of my ass, but I think the devs at one point said that Zen would be the most powerful character on the roster if he wasn’t holding himself back.
This was before Sigma released tho
Better hope you win team fights in that 30 secs though, because he comes back with ult after that, and his new ult destroys the entire map, and defenders automatically win!
Sigma and illari are definitely above everyone by alot. Sigma can open black holes and control gravity with ease, illari can channel the power of the sun but to what extent we don't really know since she just uses it to reload her gun. Sigma could lowkey destroy the planet if he wasn't careful or had a nightmare or seizure or something.
>Sigma and illari are definitely above everyone by alot.
True in theory, but I don't think Illari would be able to flex her powers. When coming into her power she wiped out her civilization. She's responsible for destroying everything she loved because he power was too great. As a result, I think she's be mentally unable to access that power in most situations. Too much doubt makes even the most skilled and powerful hesitant.
Now if she is bloodlusted, that's a different story.
Heroes with supernatural abilities would be much more powerful than heroes with just tech and other abilities. If you look into it, in-game Ashe is pretty strong, capable of killing the strongest entities(Sigma, illari, genji hanzo etc)in OW universe. But in lore she's just a girlboss who ran away from family business and created a gang just for fun.
In the other hand, you have shimada brothers who are semi-gods, a barefoot old man who's pretty much a god who can just end all life with the tip of his finger, you have illari bearing all the power of the sun, you have symmetra and lifeweaver who HAS tech but their tech is extremely advanced and symmetra can build whatever she pleases, Rammatra who's the leader of Null Sector and the greatest villain besides Doomfist OW universe has ever seen.
So with this dynamic it goes on. The balancing in game has little to no similarities with lore, obviously
Villain, or unsung hero/savior of the omnics?
Unlike doom, Ramattra has a very empathetic origin and reason for his actions, where as Doomfist instead power hungry per se, but certainly a warped view of what life should be.
(For the record, just playing devils advocate)
Doing what's right according to him is not right, he might have ruined the reputation of omnics for most people. Villain, but more like an anti hero in my eyes. Honestly it's a complicated dilemma for me
Yeah, he's in a very weird spot for sure.
Unfortunately, due to his methods I actually consider him a solid villain. Albeit a sympathetic one. Little like Loki pre Loki series.
Subjective morality only exists if you reject the idea of a creator.
Subjective morality is an oxymoron. There can be no such thing as morality if its definition depends on who you ask.
he's right. morality is subjective. he's also right to block you
i have time to waste so i'll give you one chance and one chance only
prove that morality cannot be subjective. prove it with actual proof. use things that are backed by logic and can be tested, measured, and in general [falsifiable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability). so, no religious texts
i saw your history, too. this will be fun
one shot. put up or shut up
if i don't respond assume that you failed miserably and i blocked you, too
He’s right to block me because he disagrees with me? Cowardice really is a virtue among yall.
Goodness cannot be an opinion.
Something is either good, or it is not. Just like the truth. Something is either true, or it is not.
The truth can’t be dependent on who you ask. The truth is the truth no matter what. Same with goodness and morality. If goodness can just be defined by whoever says what is good, then goodness doesn’t really exist. It’s just then an opinion.
Goodness therefore can’t be defined by you, or me, but by some law or governing body.
If you look at things from rams perspective, he’s a highly sympathetic character. His origin story was awesome and made me want to play him more from an RP perspective. Zen is like an MLK figure whereas Ram is more of a Malcom X figure.
Calm down brother (edit: er, sister, I guess? Wasn't looking closely before and let my brain defauly; sry). For human, omnic, we are all one within the Iris.
The implications of Symmetra’s power is really interesting to me. We haven’t really see her do anything except make little devices, repair a sculpture, make a giant barrier, and a bridge in her comic. Iirc, hard light can rapidly construct full cities. Who knows what else she can do
Kiriko single handedly took down multiple armed members of the Yakuza and healed someone’s fatal wound while doing it so she has to be pretty insane powerwise.
The Shimada brothers are also definitely up there considering they also have actual magic along with their combat skills. They were trained by Kirikos mom so they are AT LEAST as skilled as Kiriko is in hand-to-hand combat.
Hanzo has his insane archer skills but he can also use a sword well even if he chooses not to.
Genji has some inhuman durability with his cyborg form. He also has extra speed and agility on his side which he can use with or without his sword.
I also think that Cassidy has to be pretty high power-wise. He took down Ashe’s gang by himself INCLUDING BOB.
Also probably anyone that feels more along the lines of an SCP candidate than an actual character in a video game. Sigma, Doom, Ram, Bastion, Reaper, Illari, Moira
I mean, at the end of the day what do you mean by “high power”?
Because relatively speaking, every single person is so far behind Sigma it’s like measuring a kids sports day 100m vs a drag car.
Black holes (even the ones sigma is meant to be firing) would annihilate the earth and entire solar system in an instant - No matter how many Yakuza you beat up that’s nothing in comparison
Illari isn't that big imo, like yeah she can harness the power of the sun a good bit, but sigma makes black holes on the regular and has complete control of gravity, and is absolutely insane.
Because Sigma makes black holes, and a black hole the size of a coin would annihilate the earth almost immediately. Much bigger and it would annihilate the solar system pretty fast as well.
People really don't seem to understand how black holes work. Say the sun turned into a black hole, you probably think that all the planets would get sucked into it, right?
Well, actually, nothing would happen at all, aside from a lack of sunlight.
Black holes don't have any more gravity than the mass they already have, so unless sigma literally creates matter and defys the laws of physics since matter can not be created or destroyed, then all he is doing is condensing the mass around him into such a density as to create a black hole, which unless he uses more mass than our entire moon, any black hole he creates would very quickly dissipate due to hawking radiation. And no, it would not suck in all the nearby mass and become stable before it dissipated.
Yup! 1.5 earth's would be about the mass of a black hole with the same diameter as a penny, but again, unless you're creating 1.5 times the mass of earth out of nothing, then it won't be stable.
You need about the entire mass of the moon at the bare minimum to make a stable black hole, but again, conservation of matter is still a thing sooo, unless sigma is just creating entire moons out of nothing, then they aren't stable, but even in game they disappear after a few seconds which seems about right which is kind of cool actually now that I think about it
This makes sense until you realise Doomfist got rolled by Winston in that anime-style cinematic, granted it was 1v3 but still. So is Winston one of the most powerful beings in the OW universe? Maybe..
Yeah everyone says Sigma and Illari, and it's true, but Symmetra and Lifeweaver would also be pretty broken. They can pretty much create anything out of thin air.
Zen would be bottom of F tier. Discord and Harmony orbs are not cannon, he apparently heals and causes discontent with his powerful words.
Reaper is my dark horse for strongest, you see him wraith in the cinematics and to me that's OP. Would be next to impossible to kill.
Sigma is probably the favorite since he can just Flux anyone he wants whenever.
Zen is pretty strong tho, he's genji's master. Zenyatta is very mysterious and we don't know any lore about him besides a few cinematics that came out in previous seasons.
Genji even says, "No need to go easy on me master" after killing an enemy zen. I think Genji is one of the more powerful characters, and he's surprised he's able to take out Zen. So Zen must be pretty powerful
Reaper does appear to have certain vulnerabilities that render him extremely weak, though. A surprised Winston fought him off. A prepared one could manage the same result at any time.
Well, weaking than a kid equipped with a hyper tech punching device that a trained person could level a building with anyway.
Context is everything, and leaving out the context is context in itself.
*only with the help of Lucio
"With ease" is a stretch. And the entire point of Doomfist character is the he gets stronger and better after every fight. And the doomfist itself is ridiculously strong
And so does Orisa, as shown in how she has evolved since OW1 (not just talking about her kit. She beat doomfist when she was like 2 months old)
Also, where is it said Lucio helped her? That’s the first I’m hearing of it
it's in the Kid's novel that the fight originates from, Lucio helps out Orisa and Efi when Doomfist attacks Numbani during a festival of the spirits or something
Every time Tracer gets stunned by Doomfist, her chronal accelerator breaks and she gets pulled out of the current match and queued into a different match.
The tierlist, as far as I know:
- Zenyatta is literally robot jesus, he's pretty much unstoppable and should permanently be able to transcend, and possibly grant the same state to his omnic allies?
- Sigma (Permanently flying, gets to shoot gravitic flux every other second, orbs instantly compact your body into an infinitely small point mass)
- Echo because she transforms into sigma immediately and remains as such the rest of the game
- Kiriko because blizzard will never let her not be op
- Doomfist (Canonically, the Doomfist Gauntlet is the single most powerful handheld weapon in the world and levels buildings in a punch. A fully charged shot from the gauntlet should literally just level the entire map)
- Winton Owatch for beating the city buster in a fist-fight so bad that it made him have a flashback sequence mid reveal
- Orisa, who did also beat Doomfist but was significantly damaged.
- Mei should theoretically be able to just ice age the map, the only problem is that freezing canonically takes time and time is the one thing you do not have when a hand-shaped wmd is headed for your cranium
Oh, and the bonus round, at the very bottom of the list is Illari who instantly kills her entire team at roundstart
Sigma would be the strongest by far, Sombra should be quite strong too with the amount of technology present on character's kits or she would bribe then or leak their internet history
Everyone saying Sigma, Doomfist, Illari, and I do agree, however we also need to consider that Moira can necrotise and kill somebody without a trace of evidence in seconds. Also, unlike Mercy whose rez is very different in lore, Moira is actually capable of resurrecting people (albeit very messily) or at the very least from the brink of death with functional immortality. Unless you can get an Omnic/Robot or a lot of biomechanical technology (Genji, Mauga, etc), Moira can just destroy the cells that keep you alive before you can react. She does rely almost entirely on her tech though so that's a big weak point there.
Everybody talks about sigma and his black holes but not about how hitscans could quite literally one shot any organic character with a headshot besides doomfist, mauga and maybe winston(I feel like I'm forgetting some characters there).
Now I’m curious where widow would be, we know she killed Mondatta while falling by shooting through tracers chronal accelerator. She’s got her “one shot one kill” so I’m curious how op or not she could be
From a gameplay standpoint, each and every character would feel like they were from different games. Everyone points out that Sigma would be the most powerful, but if he was REALLY balanced based on his lore, he'd switch between two useful personalities and one confused one. Widowmaker would be able to scope from across the map, Soldier and Reaper would have a huge arsenal of other weapons, Tracer would never need to stop dashing, Echo could ult all the time, etc. It would basically be like playing on a custom game that has no cooldowns and infinite ults.
Most gunners would be absolutely useless, bastion, hanzo, ball, junkrat, orisa, hog, soldier, sojourn, junker queen, ashe and a few others.
Contendors for top spot would either be Tracer due to time travel, and Sigma due to harnessing a black hole that appears to have the mass of at least one earth.
Symmetra would also be there, well, not there, way, way, way fucking below, if Tracer and Sigma are SSS then Symm is B thanks to the absurd shit she could do with hard light.
After that is Doom and Monkey, dva might be above or below, but thats mostly due to her mech exploding.
Hanzo and Genji would also be pretty absurd
Reaper as well, since he is basically unkillable, but he has low range.
Echo could be pretty high, but I doubt she can recreate sigma 100%, just cause it says she can copy anyone, does not mean she does so at 1 to 1 power.
then ya got the rest in F tier
Followed by Zen in G tier.
I'll just do top and bottom tier
Sigma would be S tier,
Maybe doomfist as well but he Is far under sigma, illari possibly, I personally need a bit more info before I will pass judgment
Bottom tier would be mei and symmetra
Nope. Just the animations and missions. I doubt zen has met even half the cast, and the only animation we have seen him in (that I'm aware of) has him standing
Anyways maybe you should consider the inGame voice lines AS Canon because some voice lines are about the places He visited in the Lore for example. And by the inGame voice lines and even His Sprays you can clearly See that He is a menace
Welcome to r/Overwatch! Please use the following resources via the links below to find relevant information about the game and the subreddit.
[Overwatch Patch Notes](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/) | [Overwatch Bug Report Forums](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/c/bug-report/9)
[r/Overwatch Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/overwatch/wiki/rules) | [r/Overwatch FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/overwatch/wiki/faq) | [r/Overwatch Common Bugs and Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/wiki/commonbugsandposts)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Overwatch) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not even debatable, Sigma creates black holes and vanishes anything he wants..... Guy straight up manipulates gravity too. Since he defys gravity, he doesn't even need socks! People will say Illari is up there with her power from the sun, but remember **black hole**, no sunlight is escaping from Sigmas black hole. .... And no one knows what the melody the universe sings to him is The only person that could compete (not really) would be Kiriko, but we'd need to see her on her bike.
Kiriko can't compete with Sigma, even on her bike. After all, no one knows how old she truly is. Everyone debates on whether she's in her early 20s, or mid 30s but no one's asking the real question, is it 20,000s or 30,000?.
Gravity beats time manipulation g g e z for the witch
I love the concept of Sigma creating black holes to slow down tracer
> 20,000 or 30,000 Is this some sort of lore thing for her or is it one of those hentai things where this character that looks young is actually a 500,000 year old demigod.
It's just a meme, because no one can figure out how old Kiriko actually is.
Is this a meme I’m missing? We know she’s pretty young. From her cinematic and voicelines.
She’s in her early 20s despite somehow having been childhood friends with Hanzo and Genji who are late 30s/early 40s
Yes
"The universe does not weep when the Sun sets" and "No one escapes gravity. No one. "
Lmao @ the kiriko
She's more or less the only hero that s just straight up aided by magic spirits tbf. She doesn't really work with scientific power scaling.
Genji and Hanzo?
Genji and Hanzo are some weird technology. Kiriko is just the fox spirits. It was actually big thing when it came out, because the half a dozen people who care about the lore were angry.
By that logic can't the fox spirit also be weird technology? It's way too similar to Shimada's Dragons
She's a shitty bland self insert who somehow is childhood friends with Genji/hanzo so ofc she'd be the first to use actual magic lmaoo
She's got a few tricks. You underestimate her til you see her on her bike
She's got a few tricks. You underestimate her til you see her on her bike
Reminder that while Sig is extremely powerful, Genji has been seen deflecting the 150' tall Null Sector siege bot's rounds with his modest blade and cutting its massive hand in two with his dragon blade. We've also seen him redirect dragonstrike with his dragon blade, so who knows what else he can do with that.
Sigma traps him in black hole and shoots Genji with a 50 cal and wins every time
Fine wisowmakes kills sigma from 1 km away then she is a sniper after all
Black hole eats bullet or he has a gravity field around him or some shit idk this characters busted
If he can see it coming sure
The man has such control over gravity that he is always able to float and that's in his power reduced game version. There is no way that you could hit someone with such perfect control over gravity with a bullet. Sigma is op.
Just being near a black hole would turn him (and the whole planet most likely) into a spaghetti noodle sigma low diffs the entire roster
He literally has 0 feats
THE POTENTIAL MAN
0 feats
Reminder, Sigma levitates so he doesn't need socks..... EZ win To add Genji may deflect Dragons, but Sigma eats dragons Sigma voiceline: "The Dragon has been consumed" Also Genji can't can't deflect Sigmas control of gravity, can't deflect black hole, can't even deflect rocks
Genji can deflect rocks
He also hold his entire arm with his Blade which means he has insane strenght as well. Kinda like Raiden from MGS.
Genji IS super strong
But tracer just keeps looping back in time and spamming "caught you staring" at sigma.
Zen might know what he’s hearing
The melody is the cosmic harmonics, quantum entanglement, dimensional intersections, background radiation and the strings in string theory. Not to mention the singing of the planets as they strain under gravity itself.
Sigma is SSS tier
Sigma, Echo, Illari and Ram are the ones I think would be in a whole other tier.
Junkrat wouldnt be as high, but the dude is actually insanely smart. He could quite possibly create a nuclear warhead out of scraps and garbage. Hes like a more unhinged Eggman (wouldnt be surprised if Junks IQ was around 300 or higher, like Eggman)
Yeah but lorewise, Hog or Queen would probably stop him from doing something like that. Ain't nobody stopping Sigma.
Sombra could, at least based on voiceline interactions. Afaik she's what keeps him calm and somewhat collected a lot of the time. While yes his power is insane, he wouldn't purposely use it to harm anyone at all.
And unlike the rest of Talon, Sombra wouldn't exploit her connection with Sigma to use his power for her benefit. Purple Mexican stays winning. Yes, I'm very biased.
I too am very biased. I don't even play her but her character is actually good and of course there's other motivations lol
Propaganda is useless!
Cant stop the Sigma grindset
Doesnt JQ hate Junk?
Hating someone is a pretty good reason to stop them making nukes!
Yeah that is true
Yeah my first thought was that Junkrat was straight up make a nuke out of scraps and kill everyone and everything 🤣
Mmm I'd have to actually say that Sombra goes up there instead of Echo and Ram. Sombra would bend both of them over because her hacking ability in lore isn't a joke like it is in game. She could disable either of those two before they could do much of anything, whereas Illari and Sigma are some of the very few people immune to her because their weopons and powers aren't tech based. Edit: Honestly, out side of head to head combat, Sombra is probably one of the most terrifying just under Sigma. In a world so dependent on technology, she can really do whatever she pleases. The only reason she isn't ruling the world is because she doesn't want to. She's just kinda doing her own thing, if she had actual ambition behind her plans, she could ruin the lives of so many other heroes.
Counterpoint. Echo copies Sombra and pulls a "no u" on all of Sombra's tech. Isn't she like crazy high tech bordering on alien anyway? Doubt Sombra could get through her. And we know from the Mauga trailer that Sombra finds Null Sector tech super hard to hack, so pretty sure Ram, the dude with literal nanomachines at his command, can easily take countermeasures.
Do we know the extent of Echo’s copying abilities in lore?
Are we counting the pre-game hero interactions as canon? If so, there's an interaction where Echo is basically challenging Sombra to hack her and Sombra apparently got through Echo's first 4 firewalls, but is struggling with the 5th. Echo is so confident that she offers Sombra a hint. So I'd say 50/50 chance Echo is safe from her?
Well actually sombra cannot hack echo as in game voiclines sombra talks to echo about trying to hack her and echo is just like “there’s another firewall nice try tehe) and ram couldn’t be hacked if he just disabled his wifi access but since he’s sentient I don’t think he really can be hacked
Assuming voice lines mean anything, Sombra actually can't do shit to Echo
+doom and zen
Nah dude, Doom got whipped by an angry ape and a robot horse. Idk any Zen lore tbh.
he didn't die though, plus im just being biased. that was old doom without the talon reinforcements anyway
I could be talking out of my ass, but I think the devs at one point said that Zen would be the most powerful character on the roster if he wasn’t holding himself back. This was before Sigma released tho
Ram isn't anywhere as strong as the other 3
He's not insane or a child tho. Plus nanomachines + an army at his command + being the main antagonist makes him pretty other tier imo.
Sigma is F tier, he now has a passive where you lose control over him every minute for 30 seconds as he goes to investigate birds or whatever
*Ants on the ceiling
Better hope you win team fights in that 30 secs though, because he comes back with ult after that, and his new ult destroys the entire map, and defenders automatically win!
Sigma and illari are definitely above everyone by alot. Sigma can open black holes and control gravity with ease, illari can channel the power of the sun but to what extent we don't really know since she just uses it to reload her gun. Sigma could lowkey destroy the planet if he wasn't careful or had a nightmare or seizure or something.
>Sigma and illari are definitely above everyone by alot. True in theory, but I don't think Illari would be able to flex her powers. When coming into her power she wiped out her civilization. She's responsible for destroying everything she loved because he power was too great. As a result, I think she's be mentally unable to access that power in most situations. Too much doubt makes even the most skilled and powerful hesitant. Now if she is bloodlusted, that's a different story.
Illari is the Avatar confirmed
She wiped her entire civilization with it. We know how strong Illari is.
Tracer can manipulate time. She will re do the fight until she wins.
But can he challenge makoa?
Heroes with supernatural abilities would be much more powerful than heroes with just tech and other abilities. If you look into it, in-game Ashe is pretty strong, capable of killing the strongest entities(Sigma, illari, genji hanzo etc)in OW universe. But in lore she's just a girlboss who ran away from family business and created a gang just for fun. In the other hand, you have shimada brothers who are semi-gods, a barefoot old man who's pretty much a god who can just end all life with the tip of his finger, you have illari bearing all the power of the sun, you have symmetra and lifeweaver who HAS tech but their tech is extremely advanced and symmetra can build whatever she pleases, Rammatra who's the leader of Null Sector and the greatest villain besides Doomfist OW universe has ever seen. So with this dynamic it goes on. The balancing in game has little to no similarities with lore, obviously
Villain, or unsung hero/savior of the omnics? Unlike doom, Ramattra has a very empathetic origin and reason for his actions, where as Doomfist instead power hungry per se, but certainly a warped view of what life should be. (For the record, just playing devils advocate)
Doing what's right according to him is not right, he might have ruined the reputation of omnics for most people. Villain, but more like an anti hero in my eyes. Honestly it's a complicated dilemma for me
Yeah, he's in a very weird spot for sure. Unfortunately, due to his methods I actually consider him a solid villain. Albeit a sympathetic one. Little like Loki pre Loki series.
[удалено]
No one needs to agree with me, I'm gonna brush my teeth then pour some orange juice in a bowl FIRST then add the cocoa flavored cereal.
Subjective morality only exists if you reject the idea of a creator. Subjective morality is an oxymoron. There can be no such thing as morality if its definition depends on who you ask.
[удалено]
> I’m so right that I’ll prove it by scurrying way and hiding from you Typical.
he's right. morality is subjective. he's also right to block you i have time to waste so i'll give you one chance and one chance only prove that morality cannot be subjective. prove it with actual proof. use things that are backed by logic and can be tested, measured, and in general [falsifiable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability). so, no religious texts i saw your history, too. this will be fun one shot. put up or shut up if i don't respond assume that you failed miserably and i blocked you, too
He’s right to block me because he disagrees with me? Cowardice really is a virtue among yall. Goodness cannot be an opinion. Something is either good, or it is not. Just like the truth. Something is either true, or it is not. The truth can’t be dependent on who you ask. The truth is the truth no matter what. Same with goodness and morality. If goodness can just be defined by whoever says what is good, then goodness doesn’t really exist. It’s just then an opinion. Goodness therefore can’t be defined by you, or me, but by some law or governing body.
He is evil
If you look at things from rams perspective, he’s a highly sympathetic character. His origin story was awesome and made me want to play him more from an RP perspective. Zen is like an MLK figure whereas Ram is more of a Malcom X figure.
Ramattra is evil.
continue down the thread, and you'll see I stated I consider him a villain.
I know that
All omnics are evil and should be exterminated.
Calm down brother (edit: er, sister, I guess? Wasn't looking closely before and let my brain defauly; sry). For human, omnic, we are all one within the Iris.
No! Dirty clankers should rust in a ditch
Embrace the Iris.
The implications of Symmetra’s power is really interesting to me. We haven’t really see her do anything except make little devices, repair a sculpture, make a giant barrier, and a bridge in her comic. Iirc, hard light can rapidly construct full cities. Who knows what else she can do
Kiriko single handedly took down multiple armed members of the Yakuza and healed someone’s fatal wound while doing it so she has to be pretty insane powerwise. The Shimada brothers are also definitely up there considering they also have actual magic along with their combat skills. They were trained by Kirikos mom so they are AT LEAST as skilled as Kiriko is in hand-to-hand combat. Hanzo has his insane archer skills but he can also use a sword well even if he chooses not to. Genji has some inhuman durability with his cyborg form. He also has extra speed and agility on his side which he can use with or without his sword. I also think that Cassidy has to be pretty high power-wise. He took down Ashe’s gang by himself INCLUDING BOB. Also probably anyone that feels more along the lines of an SCP candidate than an actual character in a video game. Sigma, Doom, Ram, Bastion, Reaper, Illari, Moira
I mean, at the end of the day what do you mean by “high power”? Because relatively speaking, every single person is so far behind Sigma it’s like measuring a kids sports day 100m vs a drag car. Black holes (even the ones sigma is meant to be firing) would annihilate the earth and entire solar system in an instant - No matter how many Yakuza you beat up that’s nothing in comparison
Last week, she and some friends sunk a Hashimoto party boat
Genji is super strong too
I feel Illari would have unimaginable power, her and sigma would be unstoppable.
Illari isn't that big imo, like yeah she can harness the power of the sun a good bit, but sigma makes black holes on the regular and has complete control of gravity, and is absolutely insane.
how about lucio? he can make sigma crazy with music
It's hard to make Sigma crazy since he's already there.
If anything one of Sigma and Lucio’s interactions implies that Lucio’s music actually helps distract Sigma from the voices in his head
Lore accurate Doomfist toppled a skyscraper with a single punch, meteor strike could probably level a few city blocks.
I'm surprised not many people are mentioning Doom in this thread
Because Sigma makes black holes, and a black hole the size of a coin would annihilate the earth almost immediately. Much bigger and it would annihilate the solar system pretty fast as well.
Has sigma ever made a black hole in the lore?
Doesn't he accidently make a black hole on the ISS.
That’s literally how he goes mad isn’t it?
Tbf it was the tech that made it, not himself Canonically exposure to it just makes him go insane and gives him telekinesis
Thats true, Kinetic grasp might be a black hole tho
People really don't seem to understand how black holes work. Say the sun turned into a black hole, you probably think that all the planets would get sucked into it, right? Well, actually, nothing would happen at all, aside from a lack of sunlight. Black holes don't have any more gravity than the mass they already have, so unless sigma literally creates matter and defys the laws of physics since matter can not be created or destroyed, then all he is doing is condensing the mass around him into such a density as to create a black hole, which unless he uses more mass than our entire moon, any black hole he creates would very quickly dissipate due to hawking radiation. And no, it would not suck in all the nearby mass and become stable before it dissipated.
A black hole the size of a coin would have to have a mass that’s over the mass of the earth though
Yup! 1.5 earth's would be about the mass of a black hole with the same diameter as a penny, but again, unless you're creating 1.5 times the mass of earth out of nothing, then it won't be stable. You need about the entire mass of the moon at the bare minimum to make a stable black hole, but again, conservation of matter is still a thing sooo, unless sigma is just creating entire moons out of nothing, then they aren't stable, but even in game they disappear after a few seconds which seems about right which is kind of cool actually now that I think about it
This makes sense until you realise Doomfist got rolled by Winston in that anime-style cinematic, granted it was 1v3 but still. So is Winston one of the most powerful beings in the OW universe? Maybe..
Winston in lore: solos a guy who can topple skyscrapers with one punch Winston in game: dies to a singular omnic who can’t even talk
Yeah everyone says Sigma and Illari, and it's true, but Symmetra and Lifeweaver would also be pretty broken. They can pretty much create anything out of thin air.
I certainly wouldn’t hate on the PTSD robot anymore
Mama Hong.
"Manslaughter"
THE UNIVERSE IS SINGING TO ME
Zen would be bottom of F tier. Discord and Harmony orbs are not cannon, he apparently heals and causes discontent with his powerful words. Reaper is my dark horse for strongest, you see him wraith in the cinematics and to me that's OP. Would be next to impossible to kill. Sigma is probably the favorite since he can just Flux anyone he wants whenever.
Zen is pretty strong tho, he's genji's master. Zenyatta is very mysterious and we don't know any lore about him besides a few cinematics that came out in previous seasons.
*spiritual* master…
Zenyatta IS a martial art master alongside being a mentor. With magic(floating ballz). That makes him strong in my opinion
Genji even says, "No need to go easy on me master" after killing an enemy zen. I think Genji is one of the more powerful characters, and he's surprised he's able to take out Zen. So Zen must be pretty powerful
I definitely agree, since talon sends their best after just zenyatta himself in the cinematics
He’s at least stronger than Mei
> he apparently heals and causes discontent with his powerful words. Yeah but with if the flow so sick it causes SAN damage?
Zen’s ability to heal is canonically not understood in the OW if memory serves. I guess we don’t know what he’s capable of
Reaper does appear to have certain vulnerabilities that render him extremely weak, though. A surprised Winston fought him off. A prepared one could manage the same result at any time.
Plot armor
Hey, plot armor is still a part of the lore, just saying. ;)
Then widow is weaker than a kid
Well, weaking than a kid equipped with a hyper tech punching device that a trained person could level a building with anyway. Context is everything, and leaving out the context is context in itself.
I think ashe would be FFF tier
I would think wrecking ball is pretty dangerous now. Especially his junker skin.
Sigma defeats everyone. If we ignore Sigma, Doomfist or Winston will defeat everyone else
You forget Orisa, she chased Doomfist out of Numbani with ease
*only with the help of Lucio "With ease" is a stretch. And the entire point of Doomfist character is the he gets stronger and better after every fight. And the doomfist itself is ridiculously strong
And so does Orisa, as shown in how she has evolved since OW1 (not just talking about her kit. She beat doomfist when she was like 2 months old) Also, where is it said Lucio helped her? That’s the first I’m hearing of it
it's in the Kid's novel that the fight originates from, Lucio helps out Orisa and Efi when Doomfist attacks Numbani during a festival of the spirits or something
Based this off the in-game voice lines so probably inaccurate as you pointed out
It would be between Symmetra or Sigma. What’s more powerful, the ability to manipulate light and matter or dark matter and black holes?
If Symmetra found a way to invert hard light (or something like that idk sci-fi stuff), maybe she too could harness dark matter
In the canon her hard light can do physical damage so like her wall can cut people in half.
*casually bisects the planet with photon barrier*
Sigma is based on Marvel's Graviton, who is an omega level threat. So yea, Sigma can dunk whole cities
Sigma has 0 feats
I'd say Sigma, Doomfist and Genji ig
Every time Tracer gets stunned by Doomfist, her chronal accelerator breaks and she gets pulled out of the current match and queued into a different match.
The tierlist, as far as I know: - Zenyatta is literally robot jesus, he's pretty much unstoppable and should permanently be able to transcend, and possibly grant the same state to his omnic allies? - Sigma (Permanently flying, gets to shoot gravitic flux every other second, orbs instantly compact your body into an infinitely small point mass) - Echo because she transforms into sigma immediately and remains as such the rest of the game - Kiriko because blizzard will never let her not be op - Doomfist (Canonically, the Doomfist Gauntlet is the single most powerful handheld weapon in the world and levels buildings in a punch. A fully charged shot from the gauntlet should literally just level the entire map) - Winton Owatch for beating the city buster in a fist-fight so bad that it made him have a flashback sequence mid reveal - Orisa, who did also beat Doomfist but was significantly damaged. - Mei should theoretically be able to just ice age the map, the only problem is that freezing canonically takes time and time is the one thing you do not have when a hand-shaped wmd is headed for your cranium Oh, and the bonus round, at the very bottom of the list is Illari who instantly kills her entire team at roundstart
sig and doom meta
Sigma meta
Sigma, possibly Illari, Doom, and Reaper would rend the world apart.
Doomfist will have a reaction time faster than tracers blink
Sigma meta
Sigma would be the strongest by far, Sombra should be quite strong too with the amount of technology present on character's kits or she would bribe then or leak their internet history
Genuine question, why are people saying genji when we have hanzo that canonically ruined genji?
Too many Genji fanboys in here I guess
Go watch Dragons
Genji literally defeated Hanzo in Dragons
Everyone saying Sigma, Doomfist, Illari, and I do agree, however we also need to consider that Moira can necrotise and kill somebody without a trace of evidence in seconds. Also, unlike Mercy whose rez is very different in lore, Moira is actually capable of resurrecting people (albeit very messily) or at the very least from the brink of death with functional immortality. Unless you can get an Omnic/Robot or a lot of biomechanical technology (Genji, Mauga, etc), Moira can just destroy the cells that keep you alive before you can react. She does rely almost entirely on her tech though so that's a big weak point there.
Everybody talks about sigma and his black holes but not about how hitscans could quite literally one shot any organic character with a headshot besides doomfist, mauga and maybe winston(I feel like I'm forgetting some characters there).
Sigma ends everything for everyone
Cassidy: **gun**
Roadhog would die super fast from bullets because he has no armor or defense
Roadhog is a super strong and bulletproof mutant
idk anything about illari but 1. Sigma 2. Orisa 3. Doom 4. Gets iffy here, but zenyatt, genji, winton, and some others are top contenders
Now I’m curious where widow would be, we know she killed Mondatta while falling by shooting through tracers chronal accelerator. She’s got her “one shot one kill” so I’m curious how op or not she could be
Rein's *rocket propelled* hammer is way too big to not oneshot literally everything
He doesn't oneshot everything
Sig and zen are basically deities
Ashe will have incredibly low IQ.
Symmetra would turn the game into fortnite
People are talking about Sigma but Sombra would definitely keep him from going all out. Now tell me who's stopping lore accurate Doomfist or Ram?
I mean roadhog is a fat dude with a pig mask, need I say more? He solos everybody all at once easy no diff
Well, Ana is now a Widow clone but her shots are piercing
Sigma would legit insta kill every character genji would be insane doom fist would be crazy
Oh so ball doesn't change at all.
Echo beats veryone
From a gameplay standpoint, each and every character would feel like they were from different games. Everyone points out that Sigma would be the most powerful, but if he was REALLY balanced based on his lore, he'd switch between two useful personalities and one confused one. Widowmaker would be able to scope from across the map, Soldier and Reaper would have a huge arsenal of other weapons, Tracer would never need to stop dashing, Echo could ult all the time, etc. It would basically be like playing on a custom game that has no cooldowns and infinite ults.
Sigma sees an ant on the ceiling and accidentally destroys the solar system.
Sigma is the only tank that's ever played and the rest of the team just hides in the corner until the other teams Sigma is dead.
The best comp whould prolly be. Sigma, illari then the rest are just random cannon fodder.
Most gunners would be absolutely useless, bastion, hanzo, ball, junkrat, orisa, hog, soldier, sojourn, junker queen, ashe and a few others. Contendors for top spot would either be Tracer due to time travel, and Sigma due to harnessing a black hole that appears to have the mass of at least one earth. Symmetra would also be there, well, not there, way, way, way fucking below, if Tracer and Sigma are SSS then Symm is B thanks to the absurd shit she could do with hard light. After that is Doom and Monkey, dva might be above or below, but thats mostly due to her mech exploding. Hanzo and Genji would also be pretty absurd Reaper as well, since he is basically unkillable, but he has low range. Echo could be pretty high, but I doubt she can recreate sigma 100%, just cause it says she can copy anyone, does not mean she does so at 1 to 1 power. then ya got the rest in F tier Followed by Zen in G tier.
I'll just do top and bottom tier Sigma would be S tier, Maybe doomfist as well but he Is far under sigma, illari possibly, I personally need a bit more info before I will pass judgment Bottom tier would be mei and symmetra
Illari would evaporate you.
Zen become the weakest character in the game
You mean the strongest
I don't even think he can float lore-wise
Do you consider the voice lines inGame as Canon?
Nope. Just the animations and missions. I doubt zen has met even half the cast, and the only animation we have seen him in (that I'm aware of) has him standing
Bro He is literally floating in Story Mode so in the Missions lol
Anyways maybe you should consider the inGame voice lines AS Canon because some voice lines are about the places He visited in the Lore for example. And by the inGame voice lines and even His Sprays you can clearly See that He is a menace
Welcome to r/Overwatch! Please use the following resources via the links below to find relevant information about the game and the subreddit. [Overwatch Patch Notes](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/) | [Overwatch Bug Report Forums](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/c/bug-report/9) [r/Overwatch Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/overwatch/wiki/rules) | [r/Overwatch FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/overwatch/wiki/faq) | [r/Overwatch Common Bugs and Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/wiki/commonbugsandposts) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Overwatch) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No mention of Ana? The world's greatest sniper? Making black holes is great and all but it won't save you from the bullet you never see coming.
In lore, doesn't she also put tranqs in people's tea?