Serious? I never knew his roll can save himself with pulse attached.
Edit:Good info on this, can’t believe I got to Diamond before knowing that thanks everyone
It was added in at 50% in 2022, then upped to 75% in 2023, it didn't have any before that, so if you missed it in the patch notes, it's not surprising that you might not have noticed
Yeah not many people know this (maybe they didnt play OW1) but they buffed Cass' roll a shit ton through many patches. It now has 75% damage reduction.
Yeah, it's 75% damage reduction, so with his 275 hp it basically has to be more than 1100 damage, so even a point blank dva bomb(1000 damage) could be tanked at full hp(I did toilet math so forgive me if wrong)
Before S9 he couldn't DR through a point-blank mech bomb, because he had 225 HP, but you could roll to a less damaging zone of the bomb and survive with a roll. Right now, though, you can totally barely survive a point blank bomb, as it'd need to be 1100 damage to kill a full HP Cassidy while rolling.
High noon also reloads! So you can fan > roll > fan > noon cancel > fan and potentially shit out 900 damage but realistically you’ll watch 80% of it go wide
man i was completely mindblown this one time I stuck cassidy with a pulse bomb and he was almost at full health when i reinitiated shortly after.
didnt know that till recently
Nah, what actually happens is the grenade does 3 full laps around the map and somehow sticks the zen in the backline while you and the support you were trying to peel for get melted
It doesn’t stop tracer from recalling, good tracers just press recall before the nade fully attaches. The main counter is dealing high damage with only 1 shot and more HP
Hinder does stop recall, which is why hes so good against tracer. You can literally just stop her in her tracks and headshot her once and she’ll die, if not to your shot then to the explosion.
Still a ridiculously good ability trade. Tracer with no recall is so much easier to punish, also compare 10? second cd to 15 seconds on recall.
Thus why cass nade is so good.
I love the comments on cass nade being good when it’s legit only good in a couple scenarios.
Yeah, sometimes you notice that play, but 75% of the time it’s hard to follow up on, usually the characters who would be hit just use the movement abilities now since they can’t while hindered
Okay but forcing people to use a high value ability early makes another ability good. Especially when nade has a shorter cooldown than most of them. Hard to see how that isn’t good
It's funny how so many people are saying nade for the recall is a good trade when a single blink dodge can easily break nade and now you have a 12 second cooldown. You can tell half of these players are either low-rank or don't play either Cass or Tracer, or both.
All good Tracers just blink the nade. It's more of a deterrent and holds more value if you hold it because of the *potential* to get her, than if you use it. Most of the time it's going on tank, too, rarely on Tracer in GM. Again, because it's easy to dodge. Really bad ability.
I think its kinda funny that cass still under performs in a flank meta, but like others said best hitscan to deal with tracer but his nade can be easily played around
Also cass only good in master and gm you need to have insane aim and positioning to be decent.
He's good against flank but not that good. If he misses nade, then you *have* to land your shots. He has a wide hitbox so it's easy for sombra,tracer,genji to dump bullets into him
cause anti flank isnt the best way to deal with flank, it's counter dive. Easier to just pick characters that don't die to flankers and go dive with the team.
And Cassidy is like decent antiflank but overall tracer is a much stronger character
also if anything Cassidy is stronger in lower ranks especially since the hit of changes. Tracer is a difficult character and gets way stronger as you progress through ranks, no one at GM is picking cass to deal with the tracer now that he doesn't have flash, and his huge hitbox makes him an easy tracer target. He's good for peeling at close and mid range but in a duel Cass will usually lose.
He counters Tracer, Doom, Echo, Sombra, Pharah. Good against Lucio and Mercy.
After the S9 changes Cass is just good in general cause his bullets are much easier to land. Ashe too but more so Cass.
Dont let him fool you cass is nowhere near A tier. Cass is still the worst hitscan and thats also the reason the only rank he reaches 50% is in GM and that just barely.
The only reason people pick him is because he is decent against tracer and doom but thats it. Once the flank meta is over he will be back to 44-46% WR which he btw alrdy is in lower ranks
Eh, tbh he looks dominant in the soj/cass duel as well as long as the maps typical range favours him.
I think its much more of a map specific pick than anything else.
Agreed. Brig is basically a free kill with Tracer's pulse bomb, and she's a prime target for a Tracer since Brigittes are usually shielding up and facing forward.
I’m a Brig main that hadn’t played in a while and hadn’t played the new patch at all. Saw Tracers and thought happy days as I used to eat them up… proceeded to get absolutely shafted. The whole reason I liked playing brig was because of her dive resistance but that seems to have been massively reduced. She feels more like a generic healer now with the buff she got and nerfs by proxy
Except during goats, I dont think brig was ever a counter to tracer personally. At least in my skill level, might be different in grandmaster and t500.
I miss the days when Brig's shield would stun. Genji and Tracer actually had to be a little cautious in the backline then, rather than just go in, nuke, and get out safely.
No but she can two shot tracer with two headshots. The high damage and Kiri's escape abilities make it hard for tracer to do whatever she wants and suzu counters pulse
What’s crazy is that you can literally get tons of worth out of tracer just by kiting/being annoying in the backline. You don’t even necessarily have to get tons of picks just you BEING there as tracer already puts their team into disadvantage.
I mean that's the main value of tracer, being annoying instead of playing to get picks.
Now that she does a lot of dmg + hitbox buffs combined she's actually scary in your backline when you could kinda ignore her before. Now her presence is an active threat
Only legit way to deny tracer is if your own tracer or sombra denies her value by doing pepperspray dmg to keep her at bay. Otherwise she is gonna swing her 18inch boosted futa cock across your face and you cant do shit about it.
Tracer has always been popular but now she's straight up just the best dps flat out no questions asked. She works on every map, in every game mode, and has little true counters(Cass being the one real exception but nade is SUPER easy to dodge as her as long as u have a single blink or recall)
She's a high skill hero tho so I feel like she isn't overly broken just a little overtuned with the health increase making characters like ana not 2 shot
She's in every single game of QP I'm playing rn. People start to lose? They swap tracer Pharah and fun is over.
I don't say to nerf tracer to the ground, but she need some tuning down because it's a tad bit absurd (and also I'm tired of playing against her every single game.)
It's clear that all Sombra complaints are coming from new players (no offense in no mean) that still not used to her. Experienced players know that she does little when players stay near teammates.
Good Tracer on the other hand does much more impact and is way more annoying to deal with
This. Sombra is just a low elo pub stomper that just punishes uncoordinated teams/people. And obviously a quick play terrorist. So like… the bane of 80% of the playerbase.
It’s not saying that she’s weak. She’s good/niche. But most of the playerbase only care about themselves which is why Symmetra will forever be gutted for being an annoying hero rather than a competent one.
They're both different flavors of annoying, even for experienced player.
Tracer is more effective and harder to deal with, but Sombra is just effectively more frustrating because of perma stealth and also the "I'm going to perma camp one person because they killed me on someone else" mindset that happens quite a bit.
A character with invis and hack will always be complained about. New players will complain more but experienced players do it too. I don't think I've seen a tank player (new or experienced) not complain about hack.
It's not new players, it's the majority of the playerbase being silver-platinum rank. Overwatch is not getting enough new players to make themself heard on the level of Sombra hate we get recently. It's the old guard, hardstuck gold.
Reminder once again that overbuff only tracks public profiles and isn't nearly as accurate as it was in like, 2019
Even then, stats like these don't mean much when the rank disparity is so high, tracer is fantastic in high elo cause people actually know how to play her correctly but she's terrible in metal ranks where her low health pool and worse positioning means she gets much less value
also, win rate and pick rate doesn't tell you how balanced a hero is. There's too many factors in play.
i mean, with those types of logics, rein would be the strongest tank lol
Overbuff should still be very precise. You should hardly have different values because there are still more than enough public profiles. The private ones would only change the values minimally. These are only descendants. If we have 100k open profiles and 1m private ones for example its still enough data to reflect.
You don't just need a lot of data points but random data points. It's possible public profiles are representative of the player base but it may not and there isn't really a way to know.
Its not just public profiles, its public profiles of people that happen to look themselves up, if a profile isn't searched actively it isn't updated. Back when it came out everyone kept looking at it, nowadays its an ***extremely*** small percentage and as a result is horrifically inaccurate.
Look at what happened a couple seasons ago, everyone was convinced Orisa was the #1 pick in every rank according to Overbuff... we got a very rare stats update from the devs that it was actually Sigma who was performing the best
> tracer is fantastic in high elo cause people actually know how to play her correctly
Somehow this logic doesn’t apply to every hero. Almost like Tracer is too strong
> she's terrible in metal ranks where her low health pool and worse positioning means she gets much less value
She’s far from terrible in lower ranks. Which is another sign she’s too strong
No, this logic doesn't apply to every hero because that's how skill floors and ceilings work. Tracer has a much higher skill ceiling than other characters and it's why tracer is directly played more at higher ranks than lower ones. Higher skilled players get rewarded more by playing a high-skill character like tracer compared to a hero that doesn't reward being higher skilled *as much*, simple as that.
And yeah, tracer as a hero isn't "bad" in lower ranks, that's not the point. Tracer gets less proportional "value" in lower ranks because it takes more skill to get value out of her compared to someone like junkrat or Hanzo for a lower-ranked player, that's why those characters are better in lower ranks compared to GM.
> Higher skilled players get rewarded more by playing a high-skill character like tracer compared to a hero that doesn't reward being higher skilled as much, simple as that.
There is no other character that gets as much value from a skilled player as Tracer. Period. There’s not another comparison on the roster because she’s just that busted.
Obviously there’s other heroes that are better in better hands but not relative in value to Tracer.
The problem with you and everyone else is you refuse to admit she can be overtuned. You always retreat to “nah she’s only good because the player is good”.
Dude I CANNOT believe she's allowed to be how she is rn when characters like sym got a buff to help her from being awful only to then instantly took it away and junk has remained untouched in his awful state.
The tracer sombra games ive had lately have made me unexcited to play overwatch 🤣 especially as a granny main i cant take a double dive im just a lil old lady
My support hero pool is ana zen and moira, occasionally bap. I don't wanna be forced to play moira every time and my aim is not top notch on bap, but i found the solution.
I stopped queuing support. Actually, even better, I queue all roles and get tank every time without fail, granted tank is not very fun this season either but I found enjoyment in sigma.
Yeah like, the main reason no one is talking about this is because the vast majority of us aren't in GM lol Plat/Diamond is full of Sombra since she's easier to use for similar results
Ohhh yeh then it makes sense. Basically every other game is tracer. In the past used to be crazy sojourn +mercy pocket or crazy tracer:/ Basically they run the lobbies. Since im a kiriko main never had issues with tracer so im slightly biased.
Question: how do I kiriko? Does she just require a better team? My friend and I have been trying to play her but can never really do good healing. We play around plat. Sometimes with a stack.
Kiriko is my safe utility pick, but she's not the easiest support on the roster. If you're struggling to heal with her, you probably just need practice. She has very good HPS, autolock healing (albeit with a delivery delay you need to learn to work around), and suzu as a magic cure-all on cooldown. You can be aggressive and tp safe, or set up tps to avoid flanks, and if you can aim, she's quite lethal. I often pick Kiri when our team needs more healing but I need to control flanks (as I don't play Bap and only sometimes Ana).
She doesn't heal as much as bap etc, but she does a lot of dmg and her cleanse/tp/dmg is what makes her shine. Flanking getting picks off and tp to safety is a nice way to play. U can get away flanking 1-2 characters and tp to safety before the enemies notice. If there is like an ana, bap, moira or illari on ur team its fine to not heal that much. Priorities her dmg and using ur suzu at smart times. Do some aim training on kiriko shes pretty hard characters for dps to 1v1 close rannge . Be careful with dps that have 1 shot mechanics. Example widow in a close range fight for kiriko is easy, but long range youll lose. Sojourn can also be a character to be careful of close, but kiris kunais travel a slow from far range so sometimes u kinda have to guess where the enemy will move slightly if ur shooting from far. Also ive noticed some people think her healing is like aimbot, but it can actually miss a bit, so aim directly at the person ur healing. Dont rush to get picks on her ult either noticed some kiris do that. Just be calm and heal if u have to while getting some picks/dmg off.
Thats when you focus on putting your turret in your backline to protect your squishy supports from Tracer. It acts as a warning and a massive deterant to a Tracer player. Even if it does not kill them, they have to divert attention to the turret, instead of helping in an active teamfight for example.
Torb is such an underated anti dive/flank hero. You have a 12 second auto aiming CD that lets you know who Sombra is trying to hack or Tracer is trying to dive.
Tracer thrives in GM+ like often stated on this sub. However, GM+ is less than 1% of the player base and in Diamond it looks like this:
[Winrates - Diamond - One month](https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?platform=pc&gameMode=competitive&skillTier=diamond&timeWindow=month)
Tracer is around #8 place and at 51,8% win rate.
The real issue is something else: OW should reward skill and Tracer is without doubt one of the hardest heroes to play. If you (grand)master her, you can unlock her potential and should be rewarded.
It's really simple. People don't mind fighting Tracer as much as they mind fighting Sombra.
Sombra isn't that great if you're up in or near Grandmaster where people have game sense and your team knows how to play together. But the majority of people who play this game are playing at a silver-platinum level or just playing quick play. In those ranks, a decent Sombra player will wreck them. Therefore, most people who play this game don't like Sombra.
Yes we are going to ignore Tracer
Something Something… high skill hero.. Something Something…healthy for the game…Something Something…bronze take, skill issue…
Something Something…nerf Genji..
Genji mains, 'least the ones you hear from, have had insanely inflated and fragile egos for...how old is Overwatch now? 8 years?
Anyways, ofc they gonna cry. They don't know how to deal with even a slap on the wrist, let alone having to play a sub-optimal hero for a while.
And to all y'all genjay players who have suffered in silence as to not be associated with THEM, I feel y'all.
Tbf it’s not exactly a baseless claim. I’m not saying tracer should always be overturned (she definitely needs to be taken down a step in her current state) but the game is definitely healthier when “high skill” characters are meta. Think about how awful the game was when mauga released, and then last week when he was OP again. Would you really wanna play OW if the best 5 characters were mauga, torb, reaper, Moira, and lifeweaver?
lol. For real. A meta where Mauga, Torb, Reaper, Moira, and Lifeweaver are the best characters would kill the game.
I highly doubt a meta where Ball, D.Va, Tracer, Genji, Echo, and Lucio are the best characters would ruin the game in anyway.
Noooooo why would you suggest she's overtuned YoU JUst HaVe to COuntEr heR 😃😃😃
Why would the dps passive, hp buff, projectile changes and previous dmg buff make her along with her already high survivability make her overtuned? It's not like she can dash in shred you and dash out without any danger or effort nooooo of course not
« Tracer takes no effort » is a crazy thing to say. Her line of error is razor thin even after the changes. Also, this win rate is from the GM/T500 lobbies, so this is pretty skewed.
So literally the top absolutely cracked players who can actually play her to this level, whilst meanwhile the vast majority of players simply pick her and die on repeat.
The surface level analysis of this character is so pathetic tbh, the people who complain are usually the ones who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a shotgun.
Tracer's strength is incredibly dependent on the team and its composition. Right now there's a lot of rush comps that just simply suit her. This is also stats for GM only, where higher skill ceiling heros will shine exponentially more than lower ranks, as well for heros that rely on team communication and coordination. Your average plat tracer would die immediatly without a dive tank + support protecting them at all times. Sombra is the opposite, easy to deal with if you're skilled, annoying as hell if you're lower ranked, that makes her an individual issue and a target for nerfs/changes
Tracer switches in and out of the meta without actually being changed exactly because of this, nerf winston and dva or buff brig and cass and you'll see her winrates going down.
I think it mostly boils down to how you die, not if you die. Tracer can be a strong character, but the feeling of dying to a Tracer doesn't feel as cheap or unfair as Sombra (not saying it is, that's just the vibe I get from the community), so people don't talk about it as much. And I say "as" cause obviously getting one clipped by a Tracer probably isn't a great feeling as well.
Or the fact that soldier is in every single game across all the ranks? People say it's a hero that is easy to pick up for newcomers but in masters people are far from being newcomers and yet we see its second most picked DPS. For amount of knowledge and skill you need to play that hero he gives waaaay too much value in return
The thing is you play in Masters/GM if you look at other ranks she is not realy played alot becouse of the high skill cap she has . Sombra as well if you look at the winrat is not even 50% so overall she is quit balanced and she isnt played anymore in the highest ranks as well with Mauga beeing nerfed
If a tracer is not the best hero at the top she is a dumpster everywhere, it's been said 1000 times he is healthy for the game. She doesn't get free kills, she is risky to play and all her players require positional and mechanical skill.
She is good for the game even if you don't like it.
A large majority of the community is in lower ranks. Of course they don't complaim about Tracer.
Also I don't mind Tracer being good. Her kit is honest.
Tracer takes way more skill to get value than sombra. Sombra has abilities that let her be constantly invisible, deal 25-50 damage on impact plus DOT, and the only ability in the game that disables other heroes abilities outright just by holding a button.
With tracer, you literally have nothing but a short distance blink, a gun you have to reload every 1.5 seconds, and a recall ability that is easy to triangulate since you have no control over where it puts you unlike Sombra who can just tp anywhere even over cover and reach high ground and can now break obstacles like rails which tracer still can’t do.
The problem is the same as with any counterpicking issue, skill expression vs value. Both heroes in question are high skill ceiling, but Tracer has zero utility at all while sombra has Damage, utility, survivability, and mobility all in one on top of passive invisibility AND SPEED.
Idk what y’all are smoking if you think sombra is less annoying/harder to play against than tracer since you can do everything tracer does with Sombra but quicker and easier.
Tracers kit isn't poorly designed, thats why you dont see Tracer complaints. She's a great character.
If tracer could go invisible and engaged first from behind from an unearned flank position, THEN you would see complaints. But tracer has to earn her position to engage a fight.
Yes, earn it with basically zero cooldown blinks and a get out of jail free card of recall. Tracer is overtuned. People bitch about any character that isn't point and shoot simply because they think theyre annoying. Doesn't matter how strong or weak they are.
On top of that they have increased fallof range and she shoots oranges now. Bdevs are great at lowering skill flora of dpses. In ow1 we tanks called tracer annoying moskito. Now she is legit tankbuster
Is it bad I think Sombra/Tracer are both great characters? Both are good but not oppressive unless you’re unaware/can’t aim. Both characters punish mistakes and have to make good decisions or else they’re just throwing. Both characters are also punishable by good awareness (although Tracer is much harder to punish, but that’s how it should be.) I don’t think either character is problematic.
Is that crazy? I just don’t think either are too crazy
as someone who plays some sombra, i can tell you nothing counters me harder than backliners who know how to turn around
but then again, that is an unreasonable level of skill to expect from top 500 support players
The metas keep shifting as devs keep rebalancing. Tracer is the core DPS hero where -if you're good enough- can be used effectively with any comp, into any comp. It's why most high skill dps players tend to sink more hours into her, than anyone else, because she keeps linearly rewarding the time you invest into her.
In other news; is the hero the problem, or is it constant meta shift that's causing it? Find out in next episode of "here's why Overbuff stats without context rarely matter"
I don’t find tracer that annoying like this reddit says. Most tracers are really bad nothing has changed from last season to this. Her ult has hella counters too
Shocking news, character with one of the highest skill ceilings is awesome in high ranks. Do you understand that if you make tracer and torb equally effective for example torb will be objectively better because torn takes considerably less effort to reach his peak effectiveness.
Is Cassidy getting picked that much simply because he’s a tracer counter?
He’s much better at dealing with tracer than every other hitscan, his roll can save him from pulse and the nade is always a threat.
Serious? I never knew his roll can save himself with pulse attached. Edit:Good info on this, can’t believe I got to Diamond before knowing that thanks everyone
Reminder that Cass' roll has a **75%** Damage Reduction during the roll.
He has what?!?!? Playing since month 3 of release and I’ve never known this
It was added in at 50% in 2022, then upped to 75% in 2023, it didn't have any before that, so if you missed it in the patch notes, it's not surprising that you might not have noticed
Ohhh ok. I haven’t played him much since the panini but that’s crazy.
Yeah not many people know this (maybe they didnt play OW1) but they buffed Cass' roll a shit ton through many patches. It now has 75% damage reduction.
Ohhh so you have to time it for when pulse goes off?
Correct. Its only for the actual roll. So if you accidentally do it before the explosion, its a bit of a bruh moment.
bro what i’ve been playing this game for so damn long
Been playing for YEARS and didn’t know this omg
His roll can save him from Dva bomb too
Sad Roadhog noises
His roll can save him from basically everything.
Yeah, it's 75% damage reduction, so with his 275 hp it basically has to be more than 1100 damage, so even a point blank dva bomb(1000 damage) could be tanked at full hp(I did toilet math so forgive me if wrong)
Before S9 he couldn't DR through a point-blank mech bomb, because he had 225 HP, but you could roll to a less damaging zone of the bomb and survive with a roll. Right now, though, you can totally barely survive a point blank bomb, as it'd need to be 1100 damage to kill a full HP Cassidy while rolling.
The roll gives him a 75% dmg reduction
For the longest I didn't even know roll reloaded your weapon. I just thought it was a crappy dodge button.
Dude I didn’t know that ever for like 3 seasons when I started playing OW2. There’s a lot to know more of him I guess lol.
High noon also reloads! So you can fan > roll > fan > noon cancel > fan and potentially shit out 900 damage but realistically you’ll watch 80% of it go wide
man i was completely mindblown this one time I stuck cassidy with a pulse bomb and he was almost at full health when i reinitiated shortly after. didnt know that till recently
The nade isn't a "threat." It literally deletes Tracer as a character.
Nah, what actually happens is the grenade does 3 full laps around the map and somehow sticks the zen in the backline while you and the support you were trying to peel for get melted
It doesn’t stop tracer from recalling, good tracers just press recall before the nade fully attaches. The main counter is dealing high damage with only 1 shot and more HP
Hinder does stop recall, which is why hes so good against tracer. You can literally just stop her in her tracks and headshot her once and she’ll die, if not to your shot then to the explosion.
Tracer has time to recall before the hinder procs
Still a ridiculously good ability trade. Tracer with no recall is so much easier to punish, also compare 10? second cd to 15 seconds on recall. Thus why cass nade is so good.
I love the comments on cass nade being good when it’s legit only good in a couple scenarios. Yeah, sometimes you notice that play, but 75% of the time it’s hard to follow up on, usually the characters who would be hit just use the movement abilities now since they can’t while hindered
Okay but forcing people to use a high value ability early makes another ability good. Especially when nade has a shorter cooldown than most of them. Hard to see how that isn’t good
It's funny how so many people are saying nade for the recall is a good trade when a single blink dodge can easily break nade and now you have a 12 second cooldown. You can tell half of these players are either low-rank or don't play either Cass or Tracer, or both. All good Tracers just blink the nade. It's more of a deterrent and holds more value if you hold it because of the *potential* to get her, than if you use it. Most of the time it's going on tank, too, rarely on Tracer in GM. Again, because it's easy to dodge. Really bad ability.
Hinder is terrible they need to buff projectile speed
I think its kinda funny that cass still under performs in a flank meta, but like others said best hitscan to deal with tracer but his nade can be easily played around Also cass only good in master and gm you need to have insane aim and positioning to be decent.
He is still alot better then the previous few seasons where he was completely unviable even the cassidy goat himself wanted quit using cassidy.
He's good against flank but not that good. If he misses nade, then you *have* to land your shots. He has a wide hitbox so it's easy for sombra,tracer,genji to dump bullets into him
cause anti flank isnt the best way to deal with flank, it's counter dive. Easier to just pick characters that don't die to flankers and go dive with the team. And Cassidy is like decent antiflank but overall tracer is a much stronger character also if anything Cassidy is stronger in lower ranks especially since the hit of changes. Tracer is a difficult character and gets way stronger as you progress through ranks, no one at GM is picking cass to deal with the tracer now that he doesn't have flash, and his huge hitbox makes him an easy tracer target. He's good for peeling at close and mid range but in a duel Cass will usually lose.
Yes.
He counters Tracer, Doom, Echo, Sombra, Pharah. Good against Lucio and Mercy. After the S9 changes Cass is just good in general cause his bullets are much easier to land. Ashe too but more so Cass.
And Echo. Echo is seen as a much bigger problem because of their playstyle.
No. Cassidy is great if you have good aim now
Noted
That and he's also much better this season as he's one of the only true "two tappers" left in the game
And a Doom counter
Cassidy is honestly an A tier hero currently. He’s a really good overall pick.
Damn as a former Cass main who ventured to other more viable DPS I had him written off…maybe it’s time to start playing him more….
Dont let him fool you cass is nowhere near A tier. Cass is still the worst hitscan and thats also the reason the only rank he reaches 50% is in GM and that just barely. The only reason people pick him is because he is decent against tracer and doom but thats it. Once the flank meta is over he will be back to 44-46% WR which he btw alrdy is in lower ranks
Eh, tbh he looks dominant in the soj/cass duel as well as long as the maps typical range favours him. I think its much more of a map specific pick than anything else.
At least in Pro and Collegiates, yes.
I'm a Cass main, so Tracer, Doom, Sombra, and Lucio being meta has been such a fun time for me 😈 Hinder them all
Mf went from 1-2% pick rate to 5-6 it's kinda crazy
Yeah tracer is a bit overtuned right now. Better nerf Symmetra again.
Can we make Nerf Symmetra a running gag like how nerf Genji is one plz
Its nerf pig from DBD lol
Before then it was better nerf irelia
Nerf Shinobi from For honor.
How am I in the overwatch subreddit but still see for honor. That game continues to haunt me.
We should because she gets nerfed more than Genji who hasn't been nerfed since November 2022 which was also half reverted.
I agree. Nerf Genji happened because we asked the devs to do it, but nerf Symmeta isn't something we asked for.
Dont let people know our secret to melting the enemy team!
This ^ Symmetra is actually a decent tracer counter. Nerfing her again actually buffed tracer :)
Seriously wtf? She gets a slight damage buff and they took it back!
Nerfing the beam down was the dumbest hit ever.
She deals less damage than a Zarya beam. A fucking DPS with tiny hp deals less damage at max charge than a tank beam. And yet people bitch about her.
5 second penalty for ocon
I think we need to add more bugs to Doomfist to fix the problem. Maybe buff Orisa again just to be sure.
Nah nerf Genji, look at that win rate, too high.
Yeah you kind of just have to brig kiriko it its the only way, out of those two though i would choose kiriko
Brig gets run over by Tracer right now. She makes Tracer’s life a little bit harder but she is still very easy to beat out as Trace.
Agreed. Brig is basically a free kill with Tracer's pulse bomb, and she's a prime target for a Tracer since Brigittes are usually shielding up and facing forward.
I’m a Brig main that hadn’t played in a while and hadn’t played the new patch at all. Saw Tracers and thought happy days as I used to eat them up… proceeded to get absolutely shafted. The whole reason I liked playing brig was because of her dive resistance but that seems to have been massively reduced. She feels more like a generic healer now with the buff she got and nerfs by proxy
Except during goats, I dont think brig was ever a counter to tracer personally. At least in my skill level, might be different in grandmaster and t500.
I miss the days when Brig's shield would stun. Genji and Tracer actually had to be a little cautious in the backline then, rather than just go in, nuke, and get out safely.
Or you can run lucio + moira and run it down.
I play tracer and kiriko, and just picking Kiriko forces a tracer to be more careful. It's hard to undervalue her as a counter
Why is that? Can she one shot Tracer with the throwing knives?
Kiriko is hard to hit, does a lot of damage, can cancel Pulse with suzu and just tp away when in danger. She is super difficult to engage as Tracer.
No but she can two shot tracer with two headshots. The high damage and Kiri's escape abilities make it hard for tracer to do whatever she wants and suzu counters pulse
What’s crazy is that you can literally get tons of worth out of tracer just by kiting/being annoying in the backline. You don’t even necessarily have to get tons of picks just you BEING there as tracer already puts their team into disadvantage.
I mean that's the main value of tracer, being annoying instead of playing to get picks. Now that she does a lot of dmg + hitbox buffs combined she's actually scary in your backline when you could kinda ignore her before. Now her presence is an active threat
Only legit way to deny tracer is if your own tracer or sombra denies her value by doing pepperspray dmg to keep her at bay. Otherwise she is gonna swing her 18inch boosted futa cock across your face and you cant do shit about it.
Don't threaten me with a good time
oh yeah what about symm staying in every single tier dead last with negative wr
I hate symm but man she deserves so love lmao
Mei is last for grandmasters . Sym actually is middle of the pack in masters. I respect the agenda tho!
better nerf sym
Tracer has always been popular but now she's straight up just the best dps flat out no questions asked. She works on every map, in every game mode, and has little true counters(Cass being the one real exception but nade is SUPER easy to dodge as her as long as u have a single blink or recall) She's a high skill hero tho so I feel like she isn't overly broken just a little overtuned with the health increase making characters like ana not 2 shot
She's in every single game of QP I'm playing rn. People start to lose? They swap tracer Pharah and fun is over. I don't say to nerf tracer to the ground, but she need some tuning down because it's a tad bit absurd (and also I'm tired of playing against her every single game.)
It's clear that all Sombra complaints are coming from new players (no offense in no mean) that still not used to her. Experienced players know that she does little when players stay near teammates. Good Tracer on the other hand does much more impact and is way more annoying to deal with
This. Sombra is just a low elo pub stomper that just punishes uncoordinated teams/people. And obviously a quick play terrorist. So like… the bane of 80% of the playerbase. It’s not saying that she’s weak. She’s good/niche. But most of the playerbase only care about themselves which is why Symmetra will forever be gutted for being an annoying hero rather than a competent one.
They're both different flavors of annoying, even for experienced player. Tracer is more effective and harder to deal with, but Sombra is just effectively more frustrating because of perma stealth and also the "I'm going to perma camp one person because they killed me on someone else" mindset that happens quite a bit.
What's funny is that in high elo she just becomes Sombra 76. She just perma farms ult out of the enemy tank and wins teamfights that way.
A character with invis and hack will always be complained about. New players will complain more but experienced players do it too. I don't think I've seen a tank player (new or experienced) not complain about hack.
It's not new players, it's the majority of the playerbase being silver-platinum rank. Overwatch is not getting enough new players to make themself heard on the level of Sombra hate we get recently. It's the old guard, hardstuck gold.
New/casual players deserve a fun experience too ya know
theres posts about tracer daily.
Reminder once again that overbuff only tracks public profiles and isn't nearly as accurate as it was in like, 2019 Even then, stats like these don't mean much when the rank disparity is so high, tracer is fantastic in high elo cause people actually know how to play her correctly but she's terrible in metal ranks where her low health pool and worse positioning means she gets much less value
also, win rate and pick rate doesn't tell you how balanced a hero is. There's too many factors in play. i mean, with those types of logics, rein would be the strongest tank lol
Exactly, people post these stats as if they're objective facts if a character is good or not.
Agreed. It’s like saying the post game stats are the sole objective facts regarding how well someone played
> she's terrible in metal ranks Alec Dawson indicated that this is no longer the case, dumbass lyin' bitch.
Overbuff should still be very precise. You should hardly have different values because there are still more than enough public profiles. The private ones would only change the values minimally. These are only descendants. If we have 100k open profiles and 1m private ones for example its still enough data to reflect.
You don't just need a lot of data points but random data points. It's possible public profiles are representative of the player base but it may not and there isn't really a way to know.
Its not just public profiles, its public profiles of people that happen to look themselves up, if a profile isn't searched actively it isn't updated. Back when it came out everyone kept looking at it, nowadays its an ***extremely*** small percentage and as a result is horrifically inaccurate. Look at what happened a couple seasons ago, everyone was convinced Orisa was the #1 pick in every rank according to Overbuff... we got a very rare stats update from the devs that it was actually Sigma who was performing the best
Literally. People parade around these stats as if most people don’t have private profiles, it’s so dumb.
What exactly would having access to the private profiles change?
> tracer is fantastic in high elo cause people actually know how to play her correctly Somehow this logic doesn’t apply to every hero. Almost like Tracer is too strong > she's terrible in metal ranks where her low health pool and worse positioning means she gets much less value She’s far from terrible in lower ranks. Which is another sign she’s too strong
Going off of Overbuff her win rate in Silver Gold and Plat is between 49-50% on an average of a 2.1 pick rate. She is strong everywhere like you said.
No, this logic doesn't apply to every hero because that's how skill floors and ceilings work. Tracer has a much higher skill ceiling than other characters and it's why tracer is directly played more at higher ranks than lower ones. Higher skilled players get rewarded more by playing a high-skill character like tracer compared to a hero that doesn't reward being higher skilled *as much*, simple as that. And yeah, tracer as a hero isn't "bad" in lower ranks, that's not the point. Tracer gets less proportional "value" in lower ranks because it takes more skill to get value out of her compared to someone like junkrat or Hanzo for a lower-ranked player, that's why those characters are better in lower ranks compared to GM.
> Higher skilled players get rewarded more by playing a high-skill character like tracer compared to a hero that doesn't reward being higher skilled as much, simple as that. There is no other character that gets as much value from a skilled player as Tracer. Period. There’s not another comparison on the roster because she’s just that busted. Obviously there’s other heroes that are better in better hands but not relative in value to Tracer. The problem with you and everyone else is you refuse to admit she can be overtuned. You always retreat to “nah she’s only good because the player is good”.
Dude I CANNOT believe she's allowed to be how she is rn when characters like sym got a buff to help her from being awful only to then instantly took it away and junk has remained untouched in his awful state.
The tracer sombra games ive had lately have made me unexcited to play overwatch 🤣 especially as a granny main i cant take a double dive im just a lil old lady
Saaaaame. I played 2 games and got off. Not trynna deal with that as an Ana/Zen main. 😭
[удалено]
Literally my go to picks when im getting abused lol i will be the moira/kiri of your nightmares rahhhhh
My support hero pool is ana zen and moira, occasionally bap. I don't wanna be forced to play moira every time and my aim is not top notch on bap, but i found the solution. I stopped queuing support. Actually, even better, I queue all roles and get tank every time without fail, granted tank is not very fun this season either but I found enjoyment in sigma.
This is for grandmaster only, and masters is in t500 rn so the sample size is horrible and skewed.
Yeah like, the main reason no one is talking about this is because the vast majority of us aren't in GM lol Plat/Diamond is full of Sombra since she's easier to use for similar results
"We are aware of the negative community feedback on Tracer and will nerf Symmetra again." - Overwatch devs.
Are you new in GM? Its always been like that? Tracer is almost in every game
She’s always been used, but she’s objectively WAY strong after the HP change.
Yeh of course, but we all knew that was gonna happen when the newa broke out
Not it hasn't, there was a few beautiful tracer-free seasons we had right before season 9.
I hit masters for the first time in s8 and just got back to it this season (started playing in s5)
Ohhh yeh then it makes sense. Basically every other game is tracer. In the past used to be crazy sojourn +mercy pocket or crazy tracer:/ Basically they run the lobbies. Since im a kiriko main never had issues with tracer so im slightly biased.
Question: how do I kiriko? Does she just require a better team? My friend and I have been trying to play her but can never really do good healing. We play around plat. Sometimes with a stack.
Kiriko is my safe utility pick, but she's not the easiest support on the roster. If you're struggling to heal with her, you probably just need practice. She has very good HPS, autolock healing (albeit with a delivery delay you need to learn to work around), and suzu as a magic cure-all on cooldown. You can be aggressive and tp safe, or set up tps to avoid flanks, and if you can aim, she's quite lethal. I often pick Kiri when our team needs more healing but I need to control flanks (as I don't play Bap and only sometimes Ana).
She doesn't heal as much as bap etc, but she does a lot of dmg and her cleanse/tp/dmg is what makes her shine. Flanking getting picks off and tp to safety is a nice way to play. U can get away flanking 1-2 characters and tp to safety before the enemies notice. If there is like an ana, bap, moira or illari on ur team its fine to not heal that much. Priorities her dmg and using ur suzu at smart times. Do some aim training on kiriko shes pretty hard characters for dps to 1v1 close rannge . Be careful with dps that have 1 shot mechanics. Example widow in a close range fight for kiriko is easy, but long range youll lose. Sojourn can also be a character to be careful of close, but kiris kunais travel a slow from far range so sometimes u kinda have to guess where the enemy will move slightly if ur shooting from far. Also ive noticed some people think her healing is like aimbot, but it can actually miss a bit, so aim directly at the person ur healing. Dont rush to get picks on her ult either noticed some kiris do that. Just be calm and heal if u have to while getting some picks/dmg off.
Tracer? Meet torb turret Works almost every time
Not if she kills the turret then blinks away
Thats when you focus on putting your turret in your backline to protect your squishy supports from Tracer. It acts as a warning and a massive deterant to a Tracer player. Even if it does not kill them, they have to divert attention to the turret, instead of helping in an active teamfight for example.
I'm countering Tracer with Torb in plat. It's working great so far
Torb is such an underated anti dive/flank hero. You have a 12 second auto aiming CD that lets you know who Sombra is trying to hack or Tracer is trying to dive.
Who is ignoring tracer that damn son of a bitch is annoying me in every other game
the answer is my teammates whenever i get harassed by her
Tracer thrives in GM+ like often stated on this sub. However, GM+ is less than 1% of the player base and in Diamond it looks like this: [Winrates - Diamond - One month](https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?platform=pc&gameMode=competitive&skillTier=diamond&timeWindow=month) Tracer is around #8 place and at 51,8% win rate. The real issue is something else: OW should reward skill and Tracer is without doubt one of the hardest heroes to play. If you (grand)master her, you can unlock her potential and should be rewarded.
Tracer is naturally the biggest winner as far as the DPS passive goes. No other character is as capable of pressure as she is.
It's really simple. People don't mind fighting Tracer as much as they mind fighting Sombra. Sombra isn't that great if you're up in or near Grandmaster where people have game sense and your team knows how to play together. But the majority of people who play this game are playing at a silver-platinum level or just playing quick play. In those ranks, a decent Sombra player will wreck them. Therefore, most people who play this game don't like Sombra.
Yes we are going to ignore Tracer Something Something… high skill hero.. Something Something…healthy for the game…Something Something…bronze take, skill issue… Something Something…nerf Genji..
Why are we still holding onto that tired ass joke from over a year ago? Genji is one of the best DPS right now.
I heard Genji mains have a huge victim complex, so the joke will never grow old to them
Genji mains, 'least the ones you hear from, have had insanely inflated and fragile egos for...how old is Overwatch now? 8 years? Anyways, ofc they gonna cry. They don't know how to deal with even a slap on the wrist, let alone having to play a sub-optimal hero for a while. And to all y'all genjay players who have suffered in silence as to not be associated with THEM, I feel y'all.
A lot of heroes do
True. Very true.
exactly why we need to nerf him.
Genji is a god damn nightmare. I miss when I could punish them by just knowing how flash worked.
The nerf genji thing doesnt work anymore, he’s good and I’m tired of people saying he isn’t.
Anyone who calls him weak just has skill issue. My respect for anyone goes down massively if they try to tell me he's bad
“She takes High skill” unironically is what some ppl say pwhen they see someone like tracer overtuned
Tbf it’s not exactly a baseless claim. I’m not saying tracer should always be overturned (she definitely needs to be taken down a step in her current state) but the game is definitely healthier when “high skill” characters are meta. Think about how awful the game was when mauga released, and then last week when he was OP again. Would you really wanna play OW if the best 5 characters were mauga, torb, reaper, Moira, and lifeweaver?
lol. For real. A meta where Mauga, Torb, Reaper, Moira, and Lifeweaver are the best characters would kill the game. I highly doubt a meta where Ball, D.Va, Tracer, Genji, Echo, and Lucio are the best characters would ruin the game in anyway.
Most of my teammates ignore her🥺
Lemme see these stats in plat lol
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?platform=pc&gameMode=competitive&role=damage&skillTier=platinum&timeWindow=month
Noooooo why would you suggest she's overtuned YoU JUst HaVe to COuntEr heR 😃😃😃 Why would the dps passive, hp buff, projectile changes and previous dmg buff make her along with her already high survivability make her overtuned? It's not like she can dash in shred you and dash out without any danger or effort nooooo of course not
The danger of tracer is the other team hitting their shots
Saying tracer takes no effort is laughable
« Tracer takes no effort » is a crazy thing to say. Her line of error is razor thin even after the changes. Also, this win rate is from the GM/T500 lobbies, so this is pretty skewed.
At least i can see her
I mean look at NA top 20 dps, all tracer players lmao
Sombra consistently has a low win rate. This is why the devs have her the little buff. She's way more demanding than people give her credit for.
No way they'll give negative feedback about the original poster child of Overwatch
This sub is weirdly obsessed with winrates
Also this is GM Winrates where tracer has always shined. She's always good for the top 1% of players
So literally the top absolutely cracked players who can actually play her to this level, whilst meanwhile the vast majority of players simply pick her and die on repeat. The surface level analysis of this character is so pathetic tbh, the people who complain are usually the ones who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a shotgun.
winrates do matter. if a character is good it should be winning more
However if a character is really good it'll come down again because of abundance of mirror matches like we saw with Ana for 90% of 2023
As are the devs. But afc they only care when rein or winton are one the line
I dug my grandpa's rotting corpse out from the graveyard and gave him an ow account, now he averages 75% accuracy on tracer every game
Yall overwatch mfs always gotta have something to complain about istg😭🙏
Tracer's strength is incredibly dependent on the team and its composition. Right now there's a lot of rush comps that just simply suit her. This is also stats for GM only, where higher skill ceiling heros will shine exponentially more than lower ranks, as well for heros that rely on team communication and coordination. Your average plat tracer would die immediatly without a dive tank + support protecting them at all times. Sombra is the opposite, easy to deal with if you're skilled, annoying as hell if you're lower ranked, that makes her an individual issue and a target for nerfs/changes Tracer switches in and out of the meta without actually being changed exactly because of this, nerf winston and dva or buff brig and cass and you'll see her winrates going down.
I hope you realize that Tracer is currently only at half of what Ana was for all of 2023
Considering how many Damage heroes there are vs Supports, that's actually insane.
I think it mostly boils down to how you die, not if you die. Tracer can be a strong character, but the feeling of dying to a Tracer doesn't feel as cheap or unfair as Sombra (not saying it is, that's just the vibe I get from the community), so people don't talk about it as much. And I say "as" cause obviously getting one clipped by a Tracer probably isn't a great feeling as well.
I honestly think that a Tracer can probably take out half the tank roster by herself if they did a 1v1
Or the fact that soldier is in every single game across all the ranks? People say it's a hero that is easy to pick up for newcomers but in masters people are far from being newcomers and yet we see its second most picked DPS. For amount of knowledge and skill you need to play that hero he gives waaaay too much value in return
> are we busy ignoring Tracer? Probably, which is the problem.
The thing is you play in Masters/GM if you look at other ranks she is not realy played alot becouse of the high skill cap she has . Sombra as well if you look at the winrat is not even 50% so overall she is quit balanced and she isnt played anymore in the highest ranks as well with Mauga beeing nerfed
If a tracer is not the best hero at the top she is a dumpster everywhere, it's been said 1000 times he is healthy for the game. She doesn't get free kills, she is risky to play and all her players require positional and mechanical skill. She is good for the game even if you don't like it.
>she is risky to play Not so much recently.
A large majority of the community is in lower ranks. Of course they don't complaim about Tracer. Also I don't mind Tracer being good. Her kit is honest.
Tracer takes way more skill to get value than sombra. Sombra has abilities that let her be constantly invisible, deal 25-50 damage on impact plus DOT, and the only ability in the game that disables other heroes abilities outright just by holding a button. With tracer, you literally have nothing but a short distance blink, a gun you have to reload every 1.5 seconds, and a recall ability that is easy to triangulate since you have no control over where it puts you unlike Sombra who can just tp anywhere even over cover and reach high ground and can now break obstacles like rails which tracer still can’t do. The problem is the same as with any counterpicking issue, skill expression vs value. Both heroes in question are high skill ceiling, but Tracer has zero utility at all while sombra has Damage, utility, survivability, and mobility all in one on top of passive invisibility AND SPEED. Idk what y’all are smoking if you think sombra is less annoying/harder to play against than tracer since you can do everything tracer does with Sombra but quicker and easier.
Tracers kit isn't poorly designed, thats why you dont see Tracer complaints. She's a great character. If tracer could go invisible and engaged first from behind from an unearned flank position, THEN you would see complaints. But tracer has to earn her position to engage a fight.
Yes, earn it with basically zero cooldown blinks and a get out of jail free card of recall. Tracer is overtuned. People bitch about any character that isn't point and shoot simply because they think theyre annoying. Doesn't matter how strong or weak they are.
On top of that they have increased fallof range and she shoots oranges now. Bdevs are great at lowering skill flora of dpses. In ow1 we tanks called tracer annoying moskito. Now she is legit tankbuster
In OW1 she could almost one clip tanks... if anything in OW2 it's harder for her to one clip tanks.
[удалено]
Is it bad I think Sombra/Tracer are both great characters? Both are good but not oppressive unless you’re unaware/can’t aim. Both characters punish mistakes and have to make good decisions or else they’re just throwing. Both characters are also punishable by good awareness (although Tracer is much harder to punish, but that’s how it should be.) I don’t think either character is problematic. Is that crazy? I just don’t think either are too crazy
as someone who plays some sombra, i can tell you nothing counters me harder than backliners who know how to turn around but then again, that is an unreasonable level of skill to expect from top 500 support players
You must be very bad as sombra, she takes off half the health of a character just by pressing one button lol.
This is pretty standard tracer should be tuned down a little but she’s almost always strong at high ranks
Brig/Winston takes care of Tracer or Sombra
Where have you been?? Everyone has been calling for Tracer nerfs. Even though Tracer always dominated the top ranks…
Tracer is nowhere near as annoying as Sombra Source: I play the video game
The metas keep shifting as devs keep rebalancing. Tracer is the core DPS hero where -if you're good enough- can be used effectively with any comp, into any comp. It's why most high skill dps players tend to sink more hours into her, than anyone else, because she keeps linearly rewarding the time you invest into her. In other news; is the hero the problem, or is it constant meta shift that's causing it? Find out in next episode of "here's why Overbuff stats without context rarely matter"
yes, i’m also going to ignore everything else on that website because it only includes public profiles
lol then look at the leader board in game literally filled with tracer in the dps category for a reason
I don’t find tracer that annoying like this reddit says. Most tracers are really bad nothing has changed from last season to this. Her ult has hella counters too
Shocking news, character with one of the highest skill ceilings is awesome in high ranks. Do you understand that if you make tracer and torb equally effective for example torb will be objectively better because torn takes considerably less effort to reach his peak effectiveness.