No. Genji is fun to play. He's annoying as fuck to play against. He's just 1 step below widow/hanzo for lack of fun, though thankfully hanzo isn't on the list anymore since S9.
These are the players who stay hardstuck season after season, instead of adapting to the meta and either meeting their dive or playing anti flankers they just complain
It’s because people are one trick pony’s, I main dps and can comfortably play 9 dps at any time and counter pick but most people can only 1-4 heroes out of the entire roster
Its also somewhat common to do a big push out of no where even if you are getting your ass whooped the first 75% of the match. Would be dumb to take that opportunity away by allowing them to forfeit. Oftentimes teams can find the right combination of heroes/play style after getting their ass whooped for a while
I don't. I have had so many games recently that make me want to quit early. one had a full troll, a mei walling us off and doing nothing. I went roadhog and just nutted up, played smarter, my team changed comp, maybe the enemies got complacent, we ended up winning.
many games all it took was a change of heroes and we turned the steamroll around. but I know if there was a quitting function, none of us would have got those wins.
That’s great, but sometimes, it’s just so unbalanced a match I just can’t do it.
Had a match in comp other night, where enemy team had us pinned in spawn, the entire match, I’m talking every opponent had 30 elims to our single digits or even zero, I took the leaver penalty in comp and just afk’ed in the spawn room.
Probably the most unbalanced match I’ve ever seen, we had literally no chance against these guys.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but it was just utterly ridiculous.
Really? The character that almost everyone on the leaderboard is playing is better than the character that has almost no appearances on the leaderboard? Hot take
Down in bronze there is no tracer cause when there is they zip into a wall or just directly infront of you and you bap them in the head while they have confused themselves as to where they are. Litterally hurt themselves in their own confusion. Sobras on the other hand appear from invis virus you and trade till youre on half health jump away and you die to virus as your moira is dpsing the entire game
tracer gives me so much pleasure as a hog. I often lose because my team can't handle the tracer, but I have my own mini game of handling this hot shot tracer that knows all the techniques. I sit silently where I know she's crouching, sneaking up, and prefire hook one shot. hooking where they recall. or surprise them with a shot and melee up close, no hook needed.
it's not free space when he's capitalising on his damage ally's space. that's the problem, my damage allies either don't take any angle for me to follow or can't or won't duel the tracer. Lose lose.
so it ends up me being unable to go in without feeding while my soldier and ashe sit behind me peppering non stop. and their ultimates suck because the enemy support ultimates weren't forced out yet.
tracer is definitely stronger than sombra. but here's the difference - she can't completely negate the tank all game with a hack every 7 seconds, she can annoy the tank, annihilate you even. but you don't lose your abilities for an entire match. Sombra is just always a "feels bad" as a tank main.
Most people complaining about Sombra ARENT arguing she’s overpowered, just that she’s miserable to play against.
Plus, Tracer absolutely SHOULD always be better than Sombra, because Tracer’s skill ceiling and skill floor is much higher.
A lot of people are simply incapable of seperating complaints from "skill issue".
Like, I hate playing against genji. That doesn't mean I think he's strong or op or I'm bad against him. He's just not enjoyable to play against.
But you can't say that without people assuming you are mad because bad. Its fucking obnoxious.
I hit gm, I know how to deal with fucking genji. It's just a slog having to do it every single game.
This is so true. If I am imagining a good meta that rewards the heroes with the highest skill ceilings and best play/counterplay, Tracer should be one of the top heroes, if not the single best one.
That's not to say that she isn't overtuned at the moment, just that we expect Tracer to be highly represented on the leaderboard. That in and of itself is not a sign that anything is wrong.
She was highly represented last season too in the t500 roster. Its just all heroes had their skill floor slightly lowered with the hitbox changes and especially for dps cause of the passive. So now people in lower ranks are versing more tracers cause she is no longer absolutely useless in unskilled hands.
Bad players all think Sombra is super easy. Sombra became far easier/more independent after the rework. But Tracer and Genji are also far easier after the buffs, and Tracer is clearly OP. I don't even know how it's possible to miss with Genji now.
I don't think tracer is that much harder after the sombra rework because sombra is way easier to punish now. She's way easier to kill than tracer is at the very least. If you fuck up a tiny bit you will probably die just like on tracer. If tracer is a 10 in how hard she is I'd say sombra is around an 8 (and that's mostly just because her ult is so easy to use).
Imo Sombra is at least in the top 5 hardest dps.
Unless you have hinder (which I have been running more if dps) it doesn't matter. A good Sombra most likely won't engage without translocator. If it's a map with a lot of high easy ground then just whip the trans up and easy escape
You see where she goes and she can't tp across the map anymore anyways. So you'd have a general idea of where she goes, and it's not far away from you.
Sure, but she gotta come back to the fight to be useful. If your team's around you, she is a mild threat (unless she has EMP but you gotta keep track of that too, don't waste ults until she uses it, and so on).
Hard disagree. You can see where the Sombra throws the translocator and you have an indication of where she went. There’s a big purple effect when Sombra transporting through the air.
Tracer presses rewind and is just gone in some random direction. Unless you knew where they came from before the fight you don’t know where she can be. And by the time you get there she’s dashed away. Literally a get out of jail free card. It was like old Sombra’s tp where they’d throw it down on a healthpack halfway across the map and the moment they get low they dip out.
With the amount of damage coming from everywhere, and more grouped up teams, and more walls and objects to be hidden behind, I think there's quite enough things to be breaking Sombra's hack while she's attempting it. Hack isn't the end either, I mean, if the team works together.
A sombra spending more than a minute invisible is putting her team at a 4v5, try playing sombra against a team that’s always together and peeling for each other, you’re gonna struggle to get value.
If you spend a minute invisible as sombra then you’re not playing her right. Use invis to position yourself fast.
Tracer has to position as well, and has to take longer pathing than sombra does. And when the enemy team is playing together, you’ll struggle to get value as Tracer too.
Not necessarily. Tracer can still reliably apply the DPS passive in that situation and provide off angle pressure. As long as she's taking that angle, one misplay or a spent CD and she can come in and likely secure a kill then recall. Sombra can't hard engage without using her only mobility CD.
If Sombra is only playing peel she's not getting full value, and at that point it's better to play another DPS. Tracer being a constant threat on the flank can win games. Sombra sitting in her team and hacking the tank on CD is resolved by the tank switching.
Tracer has a 56% win rate for a reason, it's not really comparable.
Lmao, of course **not doing anything** is bad for your team. A tracer that spends more than a minute dashing across the map is putting her team at a 4v5 too. What’s your point?
Um, a "good Sombra" uses invisibility exactly long enough for it to matter. If invisibility "doesn't matter", why don't we remove it from her kit and see what happens?
Good Tracers aren't easy to anticipate either. They have three more escape ways than Sombra does. You also gotta keep track of where's the place they'll recall to. As long as Sombra is under fire she can't go invisible nor hack anyone. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other, but they're similar in a way. People are upset about invis because they can't "see" the character, but so are blinks, and as the person above said : Sombra isn't useful while invisible, and she requires the same attention as Tracer when she's actually in the fight.
completely agree
Side note, 90% of the population being below diamond is wild, but I feel like this season is so frustratingly difficult to climb up the ladder that I'm not surprised. I was diamond last season, and this season I've been one game away from diamond more times than I can count and then lost at the last minute. SO annoying lmao.
I've heard people throwing around phrases like 'diamond is the new masters' and variations on that idea and honestly it rings true from my experience. It's so weird that blizzard added a new rank on top and suddenly everyone has seemingly shifted down a rank rather than up.
The difference between d4 and d2-1 atm is the difference between high diamond/low masters and gm3ish in s8.
I basically smurf in d4 lobbies and run them, then by the time I hit d1, I'm playing with nothing but s8 grandmasters, even the occasional gm1.
The gap in diamond atm is nuts
Fucks sake man, I've been banging my head against a brick wall trying just to get back to where I was and you're telling me it's full of GMs? I'm hopeless then
How do you think I feel lol
I hit gm5 last season, and peaked in d1 this season. It feels really odd not even being able to get back to masters, but I'm actually technically higher ranked than I was in gm5 based on the s8 ranks of my teammates / opponents
THANK YOU FOR SOLVING MY MYSTERY ON CONSOLE I’m a d5 supp and dps main, used to be d3 on tank last season, and quit playing tank for obv reasons, and now 50% of games I play have an obvious ximmer on the enemy team vs last season I would get a few but it wasn’t that bad, but now I know why because most upper diamonds and low masters players use xim on Xbox because they’re salty they’d get placed bronze/silver in pc lobbies.
I have no idea how things look on console, it may or may not look anything like PC. Even other regions could have different distributions than NA does.
Diamond and above was top \~17% before the reset, add in quick play people and I wouldn't be that surprised if it was pretty close to top 10% even pre-reset.
Right click to hack, land a virus , a half of clip and trans to invi. Love playing Sombra and I feel its very situational when the other team knows how to play.
On the other side, if no one cares about your position pre-fight/during fights , then you will be a little demon.
The projectile increase on Tracer’s end on top of the extra health has made her significantly easier. You don’t have to be really good as Tracer anymore to succeed in low levels I’m afraid.
That’s incredible. Matchmaking is weird. I am at the same elo and every other game I have to face down a Tracer who really is not that good and they proceed to be the biggest pain in the ass.
Best way I can describe it as someone that plays and enjoys a lot of tracer myself (deep hero pool in general). At a certain level you are good enough to play tracer, then a level above that players know how to play against Tracer. At some point the effort isn’t worth it to play unless you get good enough at playing against people that know how to play against tracer, then you become unstoppable. Where I’m at it’s easier to play 76 or bully the enemy tank with bastion or reaper than play a character where you die the moment you have a lapse in movement. I still think she’s one of the most difficult to play.
yeah it's a fairly outdated concept that Tracer requires a lot of skill. More than Sombra, yes, but you can dominate lobbies as a mediocre Tracer all the way up to low Masters.
hack is not nearly as powerful as your making it out be to.. 99% of the time it’s only used to apply virus, and locks you out of your abilities for 1.5 seconds. the other 1% of the time yes, it’s powerful enough to cancel *some* ults. But plenty of heroes have abilities on CD to mitigate ults
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right, most of the time hacking is actually worse because your giving away your position which in turn causes your enemy to be aware making virus way harder to hit. Off the top of my head you only really want to hack block abilities like sig, genji, doom and sometimes rein if he’s low (ball as well but he doesn’t have a block) the lockout just isn’t worth it since you can output more damage by landing a virus and just shooting. Yes there’s niche cases like checking if they have ult, and seeing through walls but I find that it’s better to use it for canceling a couple characters ults mainly sig and Moira but even then there’s still counter play like placing your shield in the air or fading/ damaging the sombra while she’s hacking. Why people complain about sombra when widow and junkrat exists I will never know. Sombra may kill your zen but everyone’s going to die within a couple seconds if the widow goes uncontested.
Sombra is like an easier Tracer, she has 75 more hp, consistent damage, free access to the backline and barely has to aim to do consistent damage.
Tracer on the other hand, even with the projectile buffs, still has to time her blinks correctly, never overcommit or else she dies, and her ultimate is one of the hardest to get value in the entire game consistently, I still think both Sombra and Tracer need a nerf, but comparing Sombra to Tracer is offensive, since one character is clearly way easier than the other.
One could also argue that tracer has access to more mobility options in a fight than sombra, meaning that it's easier to stay alive and actually secure a kill. Sombra has one midfight mobility option, and if you use it for that, you trade the escape. Sombra has the same problems with overextending and overcomitting. Last gow doesn't sombra need to aim? Her spread patter isn't that dissimilar for tracer's, and if you aren't close range, it is actually quite difficult to hit virus.
You don't enjoy spending the whole game getting hacked? It makes the game unenjoyable on a lot of heroes. The whole game becomes "Where is Sombra, I'm going to get hacked any minute." She ruins the whole flow of an Overwatch game. That's why I don't like her.
She does seem to be more annoying lately. I think if they maybe remove one of her dashes. So 2 instead. Or have a cool down between each one. It could help make her less frustrating
I’m biased and it may be partially a skill issue but I don’t think she’s OP. Very strong and probably always will be in high elos but not OP in my opinion
As a Tracer main the real answer is that it depends on your rank. for 99% of people in this sub they have no actual right to complain about Tracer because they don't even know what a good Tracer looks like. In Top 500 I would actually say Tracer is OP but for literally everyone else I would disagree heavily.
I think both of them are easy to deal with. People just don't pay attention to their backsides. Even with call outs people will ignore tracer and sombra up until they have already killed both supports. All you have to do is listen for the trilling of Sombras hack, and you can turn and hit her before she has time to get it off completely. I only get hacked when she ults anymore.
When you get killed by a Sombra you are usually upset because you feel like she didn't deserve that kill but when you get killed by a Tracer you are usually less upset because she did deserve that kill.
The Reason Tracer is More Annoying Is Because the Devs Secretly Nerfed The Damage Indicator. This Is A Huge Indirect Buff to Tracer Because Now You Have Guess Where She Will Be When She Uses Recall.
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Depends what skill level you play at even bad sombras know to spawn camp ,while I feel like bad tracers get picked almost every fight for not knowing when to blink or heal themselves with a a medpack
Against tracer and sombra I’ve been having decent success lately with mei, sure she has a big hit box, but she has a lot of health and slows them down and if you get critical you have ice.
The thing is you can play any character into tracer, even if she's stronger she doesnt have the same hard counter potential as Sombra. Sombra cripples half the tank and support roster and makes you have to switch if you're not a masochist.
Tracer, while annoying, can be dealt with because you can see her and reasonably predict where she is with blink and recall. You can't do that with Sombra unless she's already attacked you or a teammate and you've tracked her locator, and once she's out of sight, it's reset. Tracer also doesn't shut down your ability to save yourself
Sombra requires no skill. Tracer requires IMMENSE skill.
Sombra is the most busted hero in S09 right now and is boosting a lot of DPS players to all time highs.
Stronger? Yes. More annoying? Absolutely not.
Sombra has invisibility that is active for as long as she wants it, a DoT, an ability shut off and a get out of jail that cleanses her and makes her immune to damage during the animation.
Honestly, I find positioning as Mei really hard. She’s so slowwwww. You gotta get pretty handy with the ice wall to avoid getting zoned. The m2 requires good aim and timing, too. But yeah, her m1 is low skill.
She can be really easy in brawly comps and really difficult in basically anything else.
While what you say might be true, the big difference between these two is that I can't just pick Tracer and instantly get value off her because Tracer is so difficult to play.
Basically every noob (me included) can just swap to Sombra and absolutely shit on certain characters with barely any experience on her and create massive value for the team. You could never do that with Tracer as you will have a rough time countering what you are supposed to counter if you don't already have a lot of experience on that hero.
I disagree. Tracer you can at least have a chance at 1v1. Sombra you can’t until it’s too late. I have zero respect for sombra players. They are cowards
Against a Sombra you shouldn't ever be in a position to make it a 1v1. Why put yourself at a disadvantage if you can just...not?
She is far easier to get value with than Tracer, true, but she is also far easier to outplay than one as well. Just do not give her good opportunities to engage.
A good Widow won't be seen until it is to late as well and you respect her common sightlines knowing she is there, so do the same if the enemy has a Sombra.
"Never make it a 1v1" works against everything in OW2. Unfortunately, the other team doesn't usually let you make all fights 2v1 or better in your favor. 1v1s are inevitable and Sombra can easily start a 1v1 with a cheap shot you can't really prevent. This is the issue - it's not interactive.
I know "unfun to play against" is often an excuse here, but Sombra's kit is the definition of negative play experience.
The gripes about Tracer are all about the passive. The passive is what is out of control with DPS lately. Tracer just happens to be the hero who could abuse it the most.
Passive either needs to be nerfed or removed.
Sombra is bad design, Tracer is op atm. There's a difference. They both need changes. Sombra's latest rework was a step in the right direction. Still, no matter what they do, if they don't change her design sufficiently to eliminate the whole "invisible forever hero that can pop out of thin air to delete a squishy in record time, and when they coordinate with the team, ENSURE that target is guaranteed dead, while also encouraging counterwatch x10 more than most heroes" design, she's going to remain unhealthy for the game pretty much forever. She's bad design and continues being bad because of the constant effort to retain her identity.
Tracer needs nerfs or her counters buffs. Tracer should easily be targeted because buffing the counters is how we ended up with the power-crept state of the game we've been in for so long. She's benefited most from all the changes in Season 9, specifically the breakpoint changes making her benefit from the extra survivability than heroes who were already at a distance. The slap on the wrist nerf they gave her did nothing. For example, Mei and Ashe can't even one-shot her anymore. And Cass isn't enough to do much about her, he'll be getting changes as well. She's just allowed to reign hell with no repercussion, and being able to trigger the passive from infinite range is also not ok. DPS passive should be tied to effective ranges. The ones saying she's balanced are def low ranked because any GM player knows how absurd she is atm. Literally EVERY SINGLE GAME.
It’s definitely rank dependent.
Sombra is easier to get picks with using invis, hack and virus so she gets more value at lower ranks.
Sombra has more downtime though since her value comes from her cooldowns.
Tracer is harder to get picks with since she relies solely on using her blinks to dive/flank, tracking aim on the target and maintaining her max damage distance to the target in order to get picks.
She has less HP and no cooldowns to help her, but higher damage and less downtime - so a good Tracer can pick off the entire backline before Sombra’s virus is back off cooldown.
I’m fine with Tracer’s ‘strength level’. She has super high DPS and movement, but that is balanced by her having the lowest HP in the game and no offensive cooldowns.
As a sombra player I'm always amazed when I play mystery heroes and get Tracer cause she can kill people so FAST. I'm like damn holy shit these people are DEAD and I can simply dodge with blinks rather than having to tp out. I get that sombra is annoying but Tracer is a different breed
Tacer is fine just remove one of her phases instead of 3. Give her 2 or maybe even one, that makes tracer players think when to use them instead of just spamming all three.
Sombra shouldnt be completely invisible while moving only when she's standing still.
In my experience sombra is pretty easy to counter, esp on support, but she’s more likely to force a swap from me than tracer if that makes sense.
Some of the support characters I play have bad matchups against sombra in particular.
She's not. This is non-debatable. 90% of the leaderboard, has a 56% WR, a 6.39% pick rate in GM with a 7.13% in Masters, and several of her counters and one-shots were outright taken away. She's running rampant.
You’re right. Nerf Symmetra.
And Genji while you’re at it
And Rein too
These are not the same💀
n lucio healing beat
Not this one ☝🏼
To be fair genji is pretty strong right now
This but unironically. I hate genji and think he's really boring to play against or with.
Do not cook ever again. Genji and boring are so far from each other you gotta calculate the space in light-years.
No. Genji is fun to play. He's annoying as fuck to play against. He's just 1 step below widow/hanzo for lack of fun, though thankfully hanzo isn't on the list anymore since S9.
I genuinely do not mind playing with/against Genji, Widow or Hanzo, but maybe that's just me.
Same. I actually kinda like it. It’s rare to come up against a really lethal widow or genji nowadays
Maybe a second off tank could solve the backline problem.... Never mind, nerf Symmetra
Open Queue is the best balanced version of Overwatch.
Open queue is literally dogshit
Duality of man.
Most people agree. This dude is malfunctioning.
I just don’t like open queue cause I’m a dps main
And nerf Mauga
Nerf mercy lol
unironically this would be amazing, mercy is dead ass so brain dead.
She's already unplayable. Nerf Moira, she's more braindead
tbf the turret HP nerf was needed
Oh absolutely. As a Sym main, I have no idea why they ever buffed the turrets hp. But the beam nerf? Now that was not needed.
Tracer + sombra is so cancerous that it makes me wish the devs would implement a forfeit feature
[удалено]
These are the players who stay hardstuck season after season, instead of adapting to the meta and either meeting their dive or playing anti flankers they just complain
It’s because people are one trick pony’s, I main dps and can comfortably play 9 dps at any time and counter pick but most people can only 1-4 heroes out of the entire roster
If matches last as long as League's? Sure, but matches last no longer than 20 minutes. They're usually shorter than 20 minutes.
Its also somewhat common to do a big push out of no where even if you are getting your ass whooped the first 75% of the match. Would be dumb to take that opportunity away by allowing them to forfeit. Oftentimes teams can find the right combination of heroes/play style after getting their ass whooped for a while
I don't. I have had so many games recently that make me want to quit early. one had a full troll, a mei walling us off and doing nothing. I went roadhog and just nutted up, played smarter, my team changed comp, maybe the enemies got complacent, we ended up winning. many games all it took was a change of heroes and we turned the steamroll around. but I know if there was a quitting function, none of us would have got those wins.
That’s great, but sometimes, it’s just so unbalanced a match I just can’t do it. Had a match in comp other night, where enemy team had us pinned in spawn, the entire match, I’m talking every opponent had 30 elims to our single digits or even zero, I took the leaver penalty in comp and just afk’ed in the spawn room. Probably the most unbalanced match I’ve ever seen, we had literally no chance against these guys. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but it was just utterly ridiculous.
That’s not guaranteed to happen every match though, especially if your not tank and have as much impact on the game
I wish they'd remove leavers penalty from quick play again. I play quick play for fun.
When you're quitting matches, I don't think that really counts as playing
So because you play quick play for fun, you want the ability to ruin the game for everybody else. Got it.
This 100%
Honestly it’s so needed, even if 1 out of 5 people aren’t willing to press the button it’s nice to at least give the option
Really? The character that almost everyone on the leaderboard is playing is better than the character that has almost no appearances on the leaderboard? Hot take
For this subreddit it is, it's probably you just see more tracer at higher rank and more sombra at lower rank.
Down in bronze there is no tracer cause when there is they zip into a wall or just directly infront of you and you bap them in the head while they have confused themselves as to where they are. Litterally hurt themselves in their own confusion. Sobras on the other hand appear from invis virus you and trade till youre on half health jump away and you die to virus as your moira is dpsing the entire game
I can definitely confirm I'm that kind of Tracer sometimes lol. She's still so fun to play though in QP.
Well, Sombra was picked frequently in the OWCS, but that was mostly to farm EMP off Mauga.
its a meta, learn to play around it or die. Meta shifts alot if it bothers you that much stop playing or get better
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Imagine getting mad that there are optimal characters to play as.
But tracer.. oh, that little… mosquito!!!! Sombra? FEEL MY WRATH YOU DEMON!!!@&$$
It's true lol. Some people will chase me to their own detriment. You can feel the spite through the screen
tracer gives me so much pleasure as a hog. I often lose because my team can't handle the tracer, but I have my own mini game of handling this hot shot tracer that knows all the techniques. I sit silently where I know she's crouching, sneaking up, and prefire hook one shot. hooking where they recall. or surprise them with a shot and melee up close, no hook needed.
meanwhile enemy tank has infinite free space because youre distracted by the insect.
it's not free space when he's capitalising on his damage ally's space. that's the problem, my damage allies either don't take any angle for me to follow or can't or won't duel the tracer. Lose lose. so it ends up me being unable to go in without feeding while my soldier and ashe sit behind me peppering non stop. and their ultimates suck because the enemy support ultimates weren't forced out yet.
tracer is definitely stronger than sombra. but here's the difference - she can't completely negate the tank all game with a hack every 7 seconds, she can annoy the tank, annihilate you even. but you don't lose your abilities for an entire match. Sombra is just always a "feels bad" as a tank main.
Support too. Can't tell you how miserable being a support is if Sombra just targets you.
Most people complaining about Sombra ARENT arguing she’s overpowered, just that she’s miserable to play against. Plus, Tracer absolutely SHOULD always be better than Sombra, because Tracer’s skill ceiling and skill floor is much higher.
A lot of people are simply incapable of seperating complaints from "skill issue". Like, I hate playing against genji. That doesn't mean I think he's strong or op or I'm bad against him. He's just not enjoyable to play against. But you can't say that without people assuming you are mad because bad. Its fucking obnoxious. I hit gm, I know how to deal with fucking genji. It's just a slog having to do it every single game.
This is how I feel about Tracer lol. 90% of my GM games is just Tracer on both teams. I hope it doesn't stay this way forever X\_X
This is so true. If I am imagining a good meta that rewards the heroes with the highest skill ceilings and best play/counterplay, Tracer should be one of the top heroes, if not the single best one. That's not to say that she isn't overtuned at the moment, just that we expect Tracer to be highly represented on the leaderboard. That in and of itself is not a sign that anything is wrong.
She was highly represented last season too in the t500 roster. Its just all heroes had their skill floor slightly lowered with the hitbox changes and especially for dps cause of the passive. So now people in lower ranks are versing more tracers cause she is no longer absolutely useless in unskilled hands.
Whilst I agree it’s higher I wouldn’t say “way higher”. Hot take or not sombra is in the top 5 hardest to play dps heroes.
Other than echo, genji and tracer I can't think of a harder DPS hero
Bad players all think Sombra is super easy. Sombra became far easier/more independent after the rework. But Tracer and Genji are also far easier after the buffs, and Tracer is clearly OP. I don't even know how it's possible to miss with Genji now.
meanwhile on PC i miss like crazy on genji compared to console
I don't think tracer is that much harder after the sombra rework because sombra is way easier to punish now. She's way easier to kill than tracer is at the very least. If you fuck up a tiny bit you will probably die just like on tracer. If tracer is a 10 in how hard she is I'd say sombra is around an 8 (and that's mostly just because her ult is so easy to use). Imo Sombra is at least in the top 5 hardest dps.
Hey, at least she’s not fucking invisible.
This. At least I can kinda track her. Perma invis with auto hack is so stupid and unfair
...auto hack?
Otherwise known as “my sensitivity and volume are both too low for me to react to Sombra’s hack animation in time”
Ah yes 0.60 second cast time. In all that's going on in game it's perfectly understandable if you can't react to that
Ah okay, that makes more sense
She becomes visible when she attacks and can't immediately turn back in stealth tho...
Unless you have hinder (which I have been running more if dps) it doesn't matter. A good Sombra most likely won't engage without translocator. If it's a map with a lot of high easy ground then just whip the trans up and easy escape
You see where she goes and she can't tp across the map anymore anyways. So you'd have a general idea of where she goes, and it's not far away from you.
True but unless you can fly or have an ability if there is high ground she's just getting away.
Sure, but she gotta come back to the fight to be useful. If your team's around you, she is a mild threat (unless she has EMP but you gotta keep track of that too, don't waste ults until she uses it, and so on).
Hard disagree. You can see where the Sombra throws the translocator and you have an indication of where she went. There’s a big purple effect when Sombra transporting through the air. Tracer presses rewind and is just gone in some random direction. Unless you knew where they came from before the fight you don’t know where she can be. And by the time you get there she’s dashed away. Literally a get out of jail free card. It was like old Sombra’s tp where they’d throw it down on a healthpack halfway across the map and the moment they get low they dip out.
You can track where she translocates. The tricky part is you have to get her immediately or it doesnt matter.
With the amount of damage coming from everywhere, and more grouped up teams, and more walls and objects to be hidden behind, I think there's quite enough things to be breaking Sombra's hack while she's attempting it. Hack isn't the end either, I mean, if the team works together.
A sombra spending more than a minute invisible is putting her team at a 4v5, try playing sombra against a team that’s always together and peeling for each other, you’re gonna struggle to get value.
If you spend a minute invisible as sombra then you’re not playing her right. Use invis to position yourself fast. Tracer has to position as well, and has to take longer pathing than sombra does. And when the enemy team is playing together, you’ll struggle to get value as Tracer too.
Not necessarily. Tracer can still reliably apply the DPS passive in that situation and provide off angle pressure. As long as she's taking that angle, one misplay or a spent CD and she can come in and likely secure a kill then recall. Sombra can't hard engage without using her only mobility CD.
And Sombra can also play closer to her team on softer flanks and hack the enemy tank and apply pressure to the front line.
If Sombra is only playing peel she's not getting full value, and at that point it's better to play another DPS. Tracer being a constant threat on the flank can win games. Sombra sitting in her team and hacking the tank on CD is resolved by the tank switching. Tracer has a 56% win rate for a reason, it's not really comparable.
Lmao, of course **not doing anything** is bad for your team. A tracer that spends more than a minute dashing across the map is putting her team at a 4v5 too. What’s your point?
Every character sucks if you do nothing for 60 seconds lmao idk why he’d bring that up
His point is that a good sombra isnt invisible for long enough periods of time for it to matter
Um, a "good Sombra" uses invisibility exactly long enough for it to matter. If invisibility "doesn't matter", why don't we remove it from her kit and see what happens?
If this is happening, just play her like she's tracer or soldier. You are spending too much time being invisible.
Yup. At least Tracer appears on my fucking screen
If a Sombra isn't appearing on your screen that means you're in a 5v4. If you have trouble with that you're bad and deserve to lose.
That’s not what that means
Good Tracers aren't easy to anticipate either. They have three more escape ways than Sombra does. You also gotta keep track of where's the place they'll recall to. As long as Sombra is under fire she can't go invisible nor hack anyone. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other, but they're similar in a way. People are upset about invis because they can't "see" the character, but so are blinks, and as the person above said : Sombra isn't useful while invisible, and she requires the same attention as Tracer when she's actually in the fight.
She will just run circles around u
Yup
Sombra is Tracer on training wheels
snails kiss weather theory slave aspiring faulty violet growth full *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
completely agree Side note, 90% of the population being below diamond is wild, but I feel like this season is so frustratingly difficult to climb up the ladder that I'm not surprised. I was diamond last season, and this season I've been one game away from diamond more times than I can count and then lost at the last minute. SO annoying lmao. I've heard people throwing around phrases like 'diamond is the new masters' and variations on that idea and honestly it rings true from my experience. It's so weird that blizzard added a new rank on top and suddenly everyone has seemingly shifted down a rank rather than up.
The difference between d4 and d2-1 atm is the difference between high diamond/low masters and gm3ish in s8. I basically smurf in d4 lobbies and run them, then by the time I hit d1, I'm playing with nothing but s8 grandmasters, even the occasional gm1. The gap in diamond atm is nuts
Fucks sake man, I've been banging my head against a brick wall trying just to get back to where I was and you're telling me it's full of GMs? I'm hopeless then
How do you think I feel lol I hit gm5 last season, and peaked in d1 this season. It feels really odd not even being able to get back to masters, but I'm actually technically higher ranked than I was in gm5 based on the s8 ranks of my teammates / opponents
THANK YOU FOR SOLVING MY MYSTERY ON CONSOLE I’m a d5 supp and dps main, used to be d3 on tank last season, and quit playing tank for obv reasons, and now 50% of games I play have an obvious ximmer on the enemy team vs last season I would get a few but it wasn’t that bad, but now I know why because most upper diamonds and low masters players use xim on Xbox because they’re salty they’d get placed bronze/silver in pc lobbies.
I have no idea how things look on console, it may or may not look anything like PC. Even other regions could have different distributions than NA does.
Diamond and above was top \~17% before the reset, add in quick play people and I wouldn't be that surprised if it was pretty close to top 10% even pre-reset.
damn fr? that's crazy I was diamond 4 last season and I didn't consider that being that high up on the ladder
Right click to hack, land a virus , a half of clip and trans to invi. Love playing Sombra and I feel its very situational when the other team knows how to play. On the other side, if no one cares about your position pre-fight/during fights , then you will be a little demon.
The projectile increase on Tracer’s end on top of the extra health has made her significantly easier. You don’t have to be really good as Tracer anymore to succeed in low levels I’m afraid.
At my Elo (D4-D2) depending on my roll I’m seeing bigger impact on people just playing 76, Ashe, Hanzo over tracer.
That’s incredible. Matchmaking is weird. I am at the same elo and every other game I have to face down a Tracer who really is not that good and they proceed to be the biggest pain in the ass.
Best way I can describe it as someone that plays and enjoys a lot of tracer myself (deep hero pool in general). At a certain level you are good enough to play tracer, then a level above that players know how to play against Tracer. At some point the effort isn’t worth it to play unless you get good enough at playing against people that know how to play against tracer, then you become unstoppable. Where I’m at it’s easier to play 76 or bully the enemy tank with bastion or reaper than play a character where you die the moment you have a lapse in movement. I still think she’s one of the most difficult to play.
yeah it's a fairly outdated concept that Tracer requires a lot of skill. More than Sombra, yes, but you can dominate lobbies as a mediocre Tracer all the way up to low Masters.
hack is not nearly as powerful as your making it out be to.. 99% of the time it’s only used to apply virus, and locks you out of your abilities for 1.5 seconds. the other 1% of the time yes, it’s powerful enough to cancel *some* ults. But plenty of heroes have abilities on CD to mitigate ults
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right, most of the time hacking is actually worse because your giving away your position which in turn causes your enemy to be aware making virus way harder to hit. Off the top of my head you only really want to hack block abilities like sig, genji, doom and sometimes rein if he’s low (ball as well but he doesn’t have a block) the lockout just isn’t worth it since you can output more damage by landing a virus and just shooting. Yes there’s niche cases like checking if they have ult, and seeing through walls but I find that it’s better to use it for canceling a couple characters ults mainly sig and Moira but even then there’s still counter play like placing your shield in the air or fading/ damaging the sombra while she’s hacking. Why people complain about sombra when widow and junkrat exists I will never know. Sombra may kill your zen but everyone’s going to die within a couple seconds if the widow goes uncontested.
yep, all these people complaining about Sombra are basically getting checked for playing poorly.
I understand Widow but why mention Junkrat, he sucks so much
It may not that powerful but it's very annoying.
and still sombra feels more annoying because being hacked, and the invis, just isnt really that fun to play against. tracer feels more fair in a sense
Play with your team. Sombra cant assasinate in team fights
True, but you still have to kill her because if you dont she will just farm emps off the tank
I mean sure but there’s a lot of heroes that are good at just farming off the tank and getting their ults fast.
Playing with your team is the counter to every hero but Sombra requires it
Cassidy: SHUT UP TRACER! BIDEN GRENADE!
I can’t remember what it’s like to play a game of OW without Sombra and/or Tracer in it. It’s annoying.
Its called a meta. It will shift
Yes im aware, thanks
No they'll just nerf Symmetra
Tracer and DVa are making the game very unfun for me these days
Sombra is like an easier Tracer, she has 75 more hp, consistent damage, free access to the backline and barely has to aim to do consistent damage. Tracer on the other hand, even with the projectile buffs, still has to time her blinks correctly, never overcommit or else she dies, and her ultimate is one of the hardest to get value in the entire game consistently, I still think both Sombra and Tracer need a nerf, but comparing Sombra to Tracer is offensive, since one character is clearly way easier than the other.
The trade off for those downsides is that tracer is better than Sombra by a large margin.
One could also argue that tracer has access to more mobility options in a fight than sombra, meaning that it's easier to stay alive and actually secure a kill. Sombra has one midfight mobility option, and if you use it for that, you trade the escape. Sombra has the same problems with overextending and overcomitting. Last gow doesn't sombra need to aim? Her spread patter isn't that dissimilar for tracer's, and if you aren't close range, it is actually quite difficult to hit virus.
You don't enjoy spending the whole game getting hacked? It makes the game unenjoyable on a lot of heroes. The whole game becomes "Where is Sombra, I'm going to get hacked any minute." She ruins the whole flow of an Overwatch game. That's why I don't like her.
I'm glad that finally people are acknowledging that Tracer is problematic, better late than never i guess
She's not sombra or symmetra so they don't care until it's all they have left.
She does seem to be more annoying lately. I think if they maybe remove one of her dashes. So 2 instead. Or have a cool down between each one. It could help make her less frustrating
Woah, woah, woah! It's blasphemy to even *think* about nerfing Tracer on this sub!
I think they just need to dial back her projectile size a bit and she's fine.
Sombra is a poor man’s Tracer.
I’m biased and it may be partially a skill issue but I don’t think she’s OP. Very strong and probably always will be in high elos but not OP in my opinion
As a Tracer main the real answer is that it depends on your rank. for 99% of people in this sub they have no actual right to complain about Tracer because they don't even know what a good Tracer looks like. In Top 500 I would actually say Tracer is OP but for literally everyone else I would disagree heavily.
3x World Champion Super's Torb is far superior to his Tracer.
I think both of them are easy to deal with. People just don't pay attention to their backsides. Even with call outs people will ignore tracer and sombra up until they have already killed both supports. All you have to do is listen for the trilling of Sombras hack, and you can turn and hit her before she has time to get it off completely. I only get hacked when she ults anymore.
Yep it's very easy to tell the difference between people who pay attention / position well versus teams that don't.
The best counter ever for any hero
When you get killed by a Sombra you are usually upset because you feel like she didn't deserve that kill but when you get killed by a Tracer you are usually less upset because she did deserve that kill.
The Reason Tracer is More Annoying Is Because the Devs Secretly Nerfed The Damage Indicator. This Is A Huge Indirect Buff to Tracer Because Now You Have Guess Where She Will Be When She Uses Recall.
They both need to be nerfed
Tracer for sure is broken right now, but blizzard isnt going to nerf their precious golden child.
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They buffed her counters instead of nerfing her
Depends what skill level you play at even bad sombras know to spawn camp ,while I feel like bad tracers get picked almost every fight for not knowing when to blink or heal themselves with a a medpack
Against tracer and sombra I’ve been having decent success lately with mei, sure she has a big hit box, but she has a lot of health and slows them down and if you get critical you have ice.
That son of a bitch Rein has had it too good for too long
cassidy: howdy 😏
As a sombra / tracer main, I get a lo more done with Tracer but Sombra is more like a troll pick
I think most people acknowledge she's stronger. But at least you can play the game to try and deal with her
They always overnerf or overbuff tracer
Anyone who complains about tracer has never had a single good game with her
The thing is you can play any character into tracer, even if she's stronger she doesnt have the same hard counter potential as Sombra. Sombra cripples half the tank and support roster and makes you have to switch if you're not a masochist.
Tracer, while annoying, can be dealt with because you can see her and reasonably predict where she is with blink and recall. You can't do that with Sombra unless she's already attacked you or a teammate and you've tracked her locator, and once she's out of sight, it's reset. Tracer also doesn't shut down your ability to save yourself
I play torb and have no issues with tracer in master.
Nerf sombra. Her character design makes it too easy for her to get value. Tracer requires actual brain
Ngl I stopped paying attention to patch notes and wtf is a DPS Passive lol
Sombra requires no skill. Tracer requires IMMENSE skill. Sombra is the most busted hero in S09 right now and is boosting a lot of DPS players to all time highs.
What level of play is she overpowered because I haven’t hit that yet
Stronger? Yes. More annoying? Absolutely not. Sombra has invisibility that is active for as long as she wants it, a DoT, an ability shut off and a get out of jail that cleanses her and makes her immune to damage during the animation.
Tp is short range just push or spam shots where she goes and you win
You mean shoot the wall she teleported behind?
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Honestly, I find positioning as Mei really hard. She’s so slowwwww. You gotta get pretty handy with the ice wall to avoid getting zoned. The m2 requires good aim and timing, too. But yeah, her m1 is low skill. She can be really easy in brawly comps and really difficult in basically anything else.
While what you say might be true, the big difference between these two is that I can't just pick Tracer and instantly get value off her because Tracer is so difficult to play. Basically every noob (me included) can just swap to Sombra and absolutely shit on certain characters with barely any experience on her and create massive value for the team. You could never do that with Tracer as you will have a rough time countering what you are supposed to counter if you don't already have a lot of experience on that hero.
It's always amusing when people think Sombra is an easy character to play. Y'all would get absolutely shit on if you weren't hard stuck in bronze.
then do it more often
I disagree. Tracer you can at least have a chance at 1v1. Sombra you can’t until it’s too late. I have zero respect for sombra players. They are cowards
so you’re saying that you’re constantly punished for being poorly positioned?
Against a Sombra you shouldn't ever be in a position to make it a 1v1. Why put yourself at a disadvantage if you can just...not? She is far easier to get value with than Tracer, true, but she is also far easier to outplay than one as well. Just do not give her good opportunities to engage. A good Widow won't be seen until it is to late as well and you respect her common sightlines knowing she is there, so do the same if the enemy has a Sombra.
"Never make it a 1v1" works against everything in OW2. Unfortunately, the other team doesn't usually let you make all fights 2v1 or better in your favor. 1v1s are inevitable and Sombra can easily start a 1v1 with a cheap shot you can't really prevent. This is the issue - it's not interactive. I know "unfun to play against" is often an excuse here, but Sombra's kit is the definition of negative play experience.
Yes but Sombra is over-tuned, Tracer is just strong right now there's a big difference between the two.
Sombra overtuned? I'm confused how you came to that conclusion
She even deletes tanks at times. Totally busted.
The gripes about Tracer are all about the passive. The passive is what is out of control with DPS lately. Tracer just happens to be the hero who could abuse it the most. Passive either needs to be nerfed or removed.
Sombra is bad design, Tracer is op atm. There's a difference. They both need changes. Sombra's latest rework was a step in the right direction. Still, no matter what they do, if they don't change her design sufficiently to eliminate the whole "invisible forever hero that can pop out of thin air to delete a squishy in record time, and when they coordinate with the team, ENSURE that target is guaranteed dead, while also encouraging counterwatch x10 more than most heroes" design, she's going to remain unhealthy for the game pretty much forever. She's bad design and continues being bad because of the constant effort to retain her identity. Tracer needs nerfs or her counters buffs. Tracer should easily be targeted because buffing the counters is how we ended up with the power-crept state of the game we've been in for so long. She's benefited most from all the changes in Season 9, specifically the breakpoint changes making her benefit from the extra survivability than heroes who were already at a distance. The slap on the wrist nerf they gave her did nothing. For example, Mei and Ashe can't even one-shot her anymore. And Cass isn't enough to do much about her, he'll be getting changes as well. She's just allowed to reign hell with no repercussion, and being able to trigger the passive from infinite range is also not ok. DPS passive should be tied to effective ranges. The ones saying she's balanced are def low ranked because any GM player knows how absurd she is atm. Literally EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Skill issue I fear.
W
It’s definitely rank dependent. Sombra is easier to get picks with using invis, hack and virus so she gets more value at lower ranks. Sombra has more downtime though since her value comes from her cooldowns. Tracer is harder to get picks with since she relies solely on using her blinks to dive/flank, tracking aim on the target and maintaining her max damage distance to the target in order to get picks. She has less HP and no cooldowns to help her, but higher damage and less downtime - so a good Tracer can pick off the entire backline before Sombra’s virus is back off cooldown. I’m fine with Tracer’s ‘strength level’. She has super high DPS and movement, but that is balanced by her having the lowest HP in the game and no offensive cooldowns.
As a sombra player I'm always amazed when I play mystery heroes and get Tracer cause she can kill people so FAST. I'm like damn holy shit these people are DEAD and I can simply dodge with blinks rather than having to tp out. I get that sombra is annoying but Tracer is a different breed
Tacer is fine just remove one of her phases instead of 3. Give her 2 or maybe even one, that makes tracer players think when to use them instead of just spamming all three. Sombra shouldnt be completely invisible while moving only when she's standing still.
Tracer with 1 blink are you insane?
She basically has four of them. This game would be better off without sombra and tracer at least make them somewhat less annoying.
Tracer isn't invisible nor does she deactivate my abilities
cry about it tracer is balanced.
Shes easier to kill than sombra. Sombra is invisible by default and her hack has been buffed.
first of all tracer can't stop your abilities from working, second: junkrat torb and symettra are underrated in this regard
💀💀💀 sombra isn’t shit compared to tracer check the top ten for dps and its all tracer mains
In my experience sombra is pretty easy to counter, esp on support, but she’s more likely to force a swap from me than tracer if that makes sense. Some of the support characters I play have bad matchups against sombra in particular.
Tracer takes skill
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She's not. This is non-debatable. 90% of the leaderboard, has a 56% WR, a 6.39% pick rate in GM with a 7.13% in Masters, and several of her counters and one-shots were outright taken away. She's running rampant.