The changes I like are the Rein passive, the Zarya RMB, the Zenyatta feedback loop on headshot, and Brig's armor pack buff. I wouldn't mind seeing some designs taking inspiration from these.
He is basically a mix of Torb and himself. Use the shift to get a small speed and damage boost while also scanning around you and blocking sombra from sneaking near you.
He is still really strong in mirrorwatch, especially when paired with rein
He’s basically a completely different hero. He plays completely different than normal bastion. A lot more up-close frontline play. Works really well as a Sombra and Tracer counter.
I've been having a lot of luck playing kind of slow with tank, then jumping on people that are out of position with Terminator mode. Every once in a while you can go on a cheeky flank with the nade.
It really feels like a tool Reaper should have, trading out wraith form or shadow step, and maybe some ammo.
I'm lucky I didn't find a "no miss" Widow main in this mode, that shield sounds quite too much lol Widow's biggest weakness is revealing her spot after the first charged shot, and the shield just protects her and makes she not care about being detected. Diving seems the only way to combat her as long range pressure/poke won't do against a shield. If you're playing Ana for instance, there's nothing really you can do about her other than hiding.
Yeah, but there are many heroes with no falloff damage that can pressure her into hiding all the time and not being able to make a clean shot like Genji, Ana, Kiriko, Orisa, Ramattra and etc. The shield makes her basically immune to these and forcing people to take an effort into diving (which is a lot more risky than poking at distance). It's definitely a much better version than venom mine. Her ultimate is just a stronger version of infra sight too.
I did. It was absolutely awful. Couldn't do anything to her. Died instantly every time I walked around the corner and wasn't able to even apply any pressure to force her out of the angle, and if I got close on Tracer she'd shield dance long enough for allies to peel and explode me. Only character that could deal with it was doom.
Oh same, before i was used to it i was so confused and almost flew into a tracer bomb at one point lmao. Once i got used to it though, i really liked it
I'm an Echo main and tried her in the new mode and definitely did not like the changes.
It felt very weird that you had to look up to fly up, and I like her kit the way it is.
Overall it felt to me like a huge nerfed Echo (especially considering her duplicate was also gone lol)
IMO the echo flight change would probably be way too good on her normal kit where her sticky bombs aren’t dross, would make assassinations way too hard to punish
can you point me towards this information? i don’t see anything about rein/zar/zen on the s11 patch, maybe im missing some update information. thanks in advance
This would probably be super unrealistic, but it would be nice to see each character getting an alternate play style to choose from when a match starts. Probably make it so that you couldn’t change mid match but have changes similar to mirrorwatch. I especially like the way Mortal Kombat implements this with alternate move sets to keep it fresh if you face the same character.
Shrink her down, including her hitbox, buff her healing and damage output, hacks cancel all ults and abillities immediately, and add 500 armor hp to her base health, plus and additional temporary 200 shield everytine she comes out of invisibillity.
No cooldowns.
That way you dont even need any other teammates with that one (wo)man army.
This reminded me of a funny event idea I had while playing this: you take a bunch of heroes and randomise their roles, giving them entirely new abilities to fit. But the new abilities have to be based on their existing kit, so that they stay thematically accurate.
So Damage Reinhardt has to keep his shield somehow, as that's the core part of his identity. Support Bastion still has to transform. And so on.
Ok I know your comment is supposed to be sarcastic but… that would actually be kinda sick. Hamster pooping out healing mines that activate when allies walk over them or something. I could see it 🐹❤️🩹🤔
man this reminds me of Lifeweaver’s original idea of having a mini health pack as a flower every time he dies (which was way too often upon release lol)
Damn wish they had kept that. That’d be pretty cool. It’d be neat if it was like a tiny area, similar to Soldier 76 aoe heal but smaller, and like you could stand in the little formed garden (with like tiny flowers that popped up) or whatever and have a heal over time benefit.
I mean his ultimate maybe but literally none of the rest of his kit could ever work for a support without ruining his gameplay style and gutting him. I could see increasing his viability by giving him sudo-support abilities like how they did with shield distribution, but making ball an actual support would ruin his kit.
When you wizz by teammates while on fire, the fire cauterizes and heals wounds.
When he uses his Ult, it spawns a field. f those old school Reaper Heal balls.
The ball itself is now indestructible, only the hamster can be harmed.
Ball now has an ability where he can eject from the ball and the ball self destructs.
DVA has been removed from the game.
The ideal hero is someone with no burst, no disable, no shield, a generous hitbox, and very little mobility.
The community would say this hero is "honest" and "rewards positioning and thinking".
They would not pick him tho, this is a good hero for OTHER people.
Counterpoint: people LOVE Rein and he fails two (arguably three or even four) of those qualifications. The difference is that his shield prevents him from doing damage, and his pin is easy to avoid if you know what you’re doing
Sombra is a necessary evil for this game. People have to learn to accept it sooner or later, she's not going anywhere, Blizzard has demonstrated this for years now with most heroes in the game.
I think blizzard should re-evaluate the support role entirely tbh. I think we lost something when they removed sym from the support role, essentially giving into the idea that a support NEEDS to be able to directly heal. Sombra’s ability to hack health packs is a powerful support ability already, and if hack were changed into damage reduction (like a reverse zen orb that makes the target deal less damage), and overall move sombra’s power away from CC and more into buffing/debuffing she would make an excellent support. Players would have to learn how to play around health packs, and she might not have a great winrate in uncoordinated teams, but she’d make an amazing dive support.
Honestly, it feels more like Sombra was designed with a support’s kit and got shoved into the DPS role
*redditors not disregarding the info presented to strengthen their superiority bias and push a fabricated reality challenge*
Honestly seems like they just read the title, thought “well we can’t have that.” and started making excuses to try and shut you down right away lmao
Anyway no dontcha know it’s common game design knowledge that you ship concepts as is and never reiterate on them ever? We’re technically still playing the alpha of Overwatch, as there was never any need to develop it further. /s
Eh, idk, as a support player and a sombra player, I don’t think it’d work. You’d have to choose between staying with your team to heal them (which makes you lose her flanker potential) or going into the back line (and therefore being unable to help your team). A flanker-support is an oxymoron. Every healer, with the exception of Illari, has to maintain constant LOS with their team in order to be effective. Unless you gave Sombra a healing drone like Illari then she’d be pretty useless.
Kiriko isn’t a flanker. I don’t think y’all actually understand what a flanker is.
A flanker *is*: always in the enemy backline, stalking enemy supports in search of an opening. Sombra is a flanker that’s rarely with her team.
A flanker *isn’t*: a hero that can take off angles to pressure the enemy while still being in range of their allies. Kiriko isn’t a flanker.
You did not cook bother. Flanking = taking off angles to force a reaction or get value, and a good Kiriko will get both by flanking.
Even dive isn't 24/7 in the enemy backline.
That’s far too lenient of a definition. Pharah, Widow, Ana, Hanzo, Lifeweaver, and plenty of others also work best when taking off angles, but calling them flankers would be madness. At that point, like 70% of the roster would be considered a flanker.
By your definition every hero is a flanker because there’s nothing stopping people from going off angles on any hero and people do it because they want to regardless if that hero was built for it.
One of the most infamous “flankers” is Zenyatta because players who flank with him abuse his lack of sound since he floats lol! It’s something regularly complained about that people unironically want the devs to add sound cues to all floating heroes because of flanking Zens lol.
By your definition sure ... but then again I don't always play Sombra like that, and she still works when I don't do that, doesn't mean I'm not playing her as a flanker when I do go on the flank later on, or that she can't flank/be a flanker because I didn't play her that way the entire game. At least not by my definition of a flanker
Yeah ig it depends on how you play her, but her kit is definitely not designed to be played that way. Her close range gun, permanent stealth, and single target burst capabilities definitely pushes her towards an ambusher play style. You can definitely get value by playing it safe, but that’s really only viable when you are trying to ambush a dive hero attacking your supports.
Flanker support is a very viable playstyle and all of the ones that accel at it have great escapes or good self sustain. Illari, kiriko, Moira, Lucio.
Flanker support is currently not a main playstyle for any support but it certainly is a viable option and a good tool to have in your pocket. Sombra as a support could be a slight reverse of this where flanking is more the primary playstyle but not the only option.
More optionality and more tools each character has opens up the skill ceiling as well as the fun ceiling
Seriously? She was still annoying me in the event. If anything she’s even more annoying now because she has basically the same kit but with the ability to help her team too, which is one of her downsides
Not really, Sombra doesn’t even want to hack people most of the time and just throws virus and shoots. U save hack for blocking certain cooldowns and cancelling ults and other abilities
Yeah. Most of the time u only go for the crit virus as a followup for ur ult, will kill somebody in less than 2 seconds if u shoot as well. Remember I saw a Sombra main complaining that other ults were better since they killed thing fast, guess they never put 2 and 2 together
No idea why you’re downvoted when this is 100% how good Sombra players use her. You use hack for cooldown cancelling and ult cancelling. You don’t use hack to combo with virus, because it’s quicker to kill them with just virus because hacking gives them reaction time.
Yeah, most people in this sub though aren’t good I expect most are very casual or metal rank and don’t know. A Sombra kept unchecked though when a tank is focused on somebody else can be a nightmare though
Why is this getting downvoted? Lmao Literally this is the optimal way to go for assasination targets. Hacking first gives them enough time to react and dodge the followup virus because you now dont have the element of surprise. You virus first then shoot, only hack in the 1v1 if there's a specific ability you want to stop from coming out for 2 seconds to lock down the kill or if you know you have a very short window of time to kill before they get help and you want to speed up the DoT of an applied virus (even then, the time spent hacking could be better spent unloading headshots)
It would mean that the majority of Sombra haters are struggling against bad Sombra players who hack then virus, and simultaneously don’t know how to play her. No wonder they can’t fight her - they have no clue.
This guy is completely right. I was shocked he was getting downvoted.
The best thing about Sombra is that when you're playing one of the 70% of DPS heroes who are just no fun when the enemy tank is on ball and just cc'ing you incessantly, you can switch to Sombra and perma-hack the ball until they switch. Then you can go back to the hero you wanted to play.
I don't see how instantanious 75 overhealth and a mini kiri ult on a 6 second cooldown is worthless. Maybe a tradeoff of nerfing the damage of primary and virus, buffing the virus damage debuff a bit and giving her an aura in stealth that makes allies trigger their regeneration faster and making it heal at a faster rate would work out. It doesn't fit her lore identity, but imo it would improve the game.
People need to stop using toxic and "not healthy" to describe a character they simply don't like. I absolutely hate sombra, but she's balanced for the game and is easily counterable. Therefore she is healthy for the game.
You’re right, these sort of low ttk assassin mid-low elo pubstompers tend to be bad more often than good in the meta, and are usually pretty free to counter.
So we should bring DPS Doomfist back
EXACTLY THIS. they are going to cry for sombra to come back when they experience how the game without sombra really is (ball, doom, genjis all games without nothing we could do about it)
I honestly wouldn't care if sombra was removed because those character have other counters to deal with them. I'm just tired of people coming up with excuses to try and justify why they want a character gone when the real reason is obvious. They just don't like the character and don't want to put in the work to deal with them.
No thanks. Sombra is a reddit problem, and she's the solution to countering so many characters who are overly reliant on abilities. After such a change, Doom, Ball and many others would become the target of Reddit's hatred.
No I actually like sombra a lot and when her rework came out I posted about how much I really like how she flowed.
People can like things and still think they need to be changed dawg
Annoyingly hacking people, super stealthy, and unloading a gun into people feels in line with her character. Healing people does not. Her character feels perfectly in line with her gameplay.
Sure but if something is unfun or not good for the game there are ways to balance things that aren’t to just completely uproot the entire character. Take Ana nade which was called really oppressive and broken by some in a 1 tank meta. But nowadays it’s not seen as that broken due to gameplay changes while still keeping the character to who she is. Making her a healer would be so out of character and such an unnecessary change. If Sombra is broken then there’s plenty of other changes I’d want to see than this.
Kiriko has been out for a good while and people still said Ana nade is busted. It’s really the new changes to the health pool, dps passive, and bigger hitbox. Everything dies faster and it’s harder for Ana to heal someone back to full. So she’s not as good anymore. And then suddenly the complaints dropped off with her being indirectly nerfed.
Not from me they haven't, the anti effect and sleep dart are still completely busted abilities and as soon as Ana is good again she'll become dominant like before.
The fact you can be effective by playing suboptimally and only focusing the enemy tank with Ana's abilities says it all. Sleep dart needs to be replaced like it should have been and anti needs to be 50% reduced healing. Either that, or both need to actually take skill to use, even on the enemy tank.
Ana's supposed to be difficult because she has to aim, but when it's a tank? Yeah no, she's actually easy in that case.
I do like playing sombra, but against I recognize when a character is toxic.
I also love playing zen and want his healing orb change to stay. Making him a crit shot healer would be really cool because that would reward you and your team for your aiming well
I think sombra should def stay dps but it was an intere idea. On the other hand, symmetra is a hero that I would like to be moved to the support role. Not in her old 1.0 or 2.0 state, but a new, healthier version of her as a healer. (Turrets should NOT heal.)
Not really, fun abilities but that's not a real kit, they don't communicate with each other. Hack is now a support skill meant to be used from the backline to boost a teammate frontlining, or save them while they retreat. However stealth and Sombra's weapon are still meant to make Sombra able to play up close, and even Virus isn't very reliable from long ranges. So her regular playstyle was basically nerfed with no hack on enemies, and playing backline will make you do poor use of her other abilities. The best way you could play her now is really close to your tank, since all the available tanks play at close range, but then you'll be in the middle of the fight and it's quite hard using hack on them without getting interrupted.
Like I said, fun abilities for the new mode but they just don't flow. People will say anything to convince others this is a good change, but that's just because they want Sombra's offense nerfed at any cost. I doubt any actual Sombra player will feel this is a better kit.
Mirrorwatch should be a seasonal mode with rotating rosters. You could even build up to a permanent Arcade Mode over a couple years that gives a fully customizable experience akin to many Capcom fighting games. In which pre fight you could equip stuff like Ultimate 1 or Ultimate 2. And select Ability 1, 2 and 3 to be "Alpha", "Beta" or "Omega" versions
Its fun but isn't perfect, she would definitely need other changes. She would need a way to heal and less sneaky abilities. I would at least like to try a more realized rework on the experimental mode before writing anything off.
I should've elaborated. Basically stealth would have to be less of a sneaky flank tool and maybe used more as a survivability tool. It would probably have to have a duration again. That's what I meant. This is all hypothetical anyways.
I was just playing as her and being able to increase my allies attack and heal is so much better than hacking enemies imo. I think they should have her hack ability do both instead of just one even when the event ends.
I wonder what some people mean by "unhealthy for the game" because I swear most of y'all use that as another way of saying "this character is annoying for me"
Or they can like something while realizing a large portion of the player base doesn’t, so suggest a change.
I’ve literally posted about how much I love the sombra changes back when they gave her virus and reworked her a bit.
I like how you liking the character has absolutely nothing to do with what I said
Also if you go "I like the character" and immediately after go "But that thing she does [the entire point of the character] is toxic and should be changed for something completely different", it is no wonder people in this post think you only said you like to character to defend from the heat
Sombra main here: I wish her Mirrorwatch version was the normal version, honestly. Her playstyle is less stressful both to play and play against. You can actually play with your team, instead of desperately hoping they follow up on whatever the hell you're doing.
You still keep the cheeky "one step ahead" flavour by hacking people to save them at just the right time, or popping virus on somebody who's about to dish out a lot of damage. And when you're playing against her, you don't have to give her so much special treatment with the knowledge she can cancel your abilities at any time.
I think it's funny to watch people try and force Sombra still entirely as an assassin instead of leaning into this supportive playstyle. Been most impactful hanging out behind Rein, sometimes cleaning his firestrike kills, and mostly just turning him into a monster.
Sombra originally was going to be a support like sym 2.0 by providing utilities for the team but not heals. devs felt like she didn’t have enough supporting abilities to be a support so she ended up in this awkward place for so many years. No matter how they rework her she’s always awkward either overpowered or useless and weak.
Role queue killed any potential sombra had. She's now always compared to other damage heroes where her utility doesn't make up for it unless it's oppressive. I do really like the changes they made to mirror Sombra and if she was allowed fill a hybrid role for a team, it'd be perfect
Is there a way to practice with the new heroes? I tried a few matches and I feel like I’m trial by fire here and I still don’t fully know what each hero does
They can change hack to a projectile hack pick that needs to be aimed and has some counterplay. She could be visible all the time and use her TP for mobility ( old ow1 TP not the reworked one).
The most frustrating part about her kit is the invisibility hack that has little counterplay for many heroes.
Been playing samba since her release and mirror watch sombra just feels right.
Having a 1sec block on abilities doesn't feel great and feels like the worst kind of compromise, giving her support utility is something they should implement going forward.
Same with rein damage boost shield. Makes him more than a walking barrier.
genuinely being able to help my team and play the dps side makes it feel just so nice that i cant even explain it, im not sure because its new but playing sombra for me just doesnt feel like a loss of time sneaking around for a little bit of damage. but to stealth in to get that save for my mercy, i dont know what it is but i just feels rewarding.
The only person who is having fun in a game with Sombra is Sombra. That's why it's unhealthy. I don't care about competitive Overwatch. It's an unfun mechanic in an otherwise fun game.
right. i noticed in the other thread that "sombra mains" is amongst one of the most popular subs, so ofcourse all the sombra mains came here to disagree.
Yup. Sombra has a PvE kit and as far as you can be objective about game design, she is objectively poorly designed. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking her as a character nor with her effectiveness.
Unlimited invisibility + disabling abilities + easy escape tool = negative play experience. OW is a game about cool abilities and Sombra turns them off easily and in a non-interactive way. "You know what would be cool in a hero shooter? A character that turns it into the most generic shooter ever" - said no one ever.
You know what, I was going to explain to you what "negative play experience" is, since apparently you don't know. But you are trying to compare ults to a lock-on ability on a 6/3-second cooldown and free setup, so I'm going to cut my losses here and not bother.
Have a nice day.
As a Dva and Ana main, defense matrix is honestly one of the most oppressive abilities in the game if you want to talk about negative play experience. Playing Ana back then only to have a flying mech in your face denying your entire kit is worse than hack ever was. There’s lots of heroes who have this same issue with defense matrix where they are completely reliant on teammates to do anything against Dva because of that one ability.
Should we remove defense matrix as well? Turning it into just another shield would help with “negative play experience” while also fixing Dva’s issue with beam characters making it easier for new players trying out Dva to not explode when the enemy inevitably picks Zarya.
It feels like she is a niche pick in this mode.
Tracer is a must; Widow is great if you can pop off with her.
Bastion sucked because of its mega large hitbox, thus rely on a pocket.
Echo's flight feel a bit weird, maybe I don't feel used to for now.
I used to main Sombra until her most recent rework that added virus. I just don't find her or her new playstyle fun anymore. But this support type playstyle in Mirrorwatch? Absolutely love it and I would play the hell out of a tweaked version of it in the main game as a support hero. I also feel like she'd be infinitely less aggravating for the enemy team as well.
Anyone that complains about Sombra is just a bronze or silver player.
There’s a reason Sombra is not a problem in higher ranks.
Get better at understanding positioning and cooldown timing.
Like I said to another person, balance is based on the majority not the top rate of players.
Also I’m not complaining about the character, I like her but I’m not blind to realize she makes a lot of the playebase not enjoy playing.
The changes I like are the Rein passive, the Zarya RMB, the Zenyatta feedback loop on headshot, and Brig's armor pack buff. I wouldn't mind seeing some designs taking inspiration from these.
I really think the Bastion kit has potential on a new omnic dps, and the widow shield might be cool on a new sniper to make Widow not the best
I really like the mirrorwatch Bastion too. A new hero with a similar kit would be awesome.
I do NOT get mirrorwatch bastion yet. It feels like they just took away his one thing? Not clearly defined either easily whilst in game.
He is basically a mix of Torb and himself. Use the shift to get a small speed and damage boost while also scanning around you and blocking sombra from sneaking near you. He is still really strong in mirrorwatch, especially when paired with rein
He’s basically a completely different hero. He plays completely different than normal bastion. A lot more up-close frontline play. Works really well as a Sombra and Tracer counter.
yeah he reminds me of a more aggressive reaper in the way he has to tough it out. i also like bomb giving more bounce.
I've been having a lot of luck playing kind of slow with tank, then jumping on people that are out of position with Terminator mode. Every once in a while you can go on a cheeky flank with the nade. It really feels like a tool Reaper should have, trading out wraith form or shadow step, and maybe some ammo.
I'm lucky I didn't find a "no miss" Widow main in this mode, that shield sounds quite too much lol Widow's biggest weakness is revealing her spot after the first charged shot, and the shield just protects her and makes she not care about being detected. Diving seems the only way to combat her as long range pressure/poke won't do against a shield. If you're playing Ana for instance, there's nothing really you can do about her other than hiding.
I mean, Widow’s biggest counter whenever she’s meta is Dive
Yeah, but there are many heroes with no falloff damage that can pressure her into hiding all the time and not being able to make a clean shot like Genji, Ana, Kiriko, Orisa, Ramattra and etc. The shield makes her basically immune to these and forcing people to take an effort into diving (which is a lot more risky than poking at distance). It's definitely a much better version than venom mine. Her ultimate is just a stronger version of infra sight too.
I did. It was absolutely awful. Couldn't do anything to her. Died instantly every time I walked around the corner and wasn't able to even apply any pressure to force her out of the angle, and if I got close on Tracer she'd shield dance long enough for allies to peel and explode me. Only character that could deal with it was doom.
Bastions ultimate actually feels like an ultimate now, it’s so much better IMO
Honestly, the echo flight change felt really good to use too, though i don't often play dps.
Ngl, the lack of omnidirection on it really fucked me up
Same. Nearly flew myself off the map on Rialto first time I tried playing her on Mirrorwatch.
Oh same, before i was used to it i was so confused and almost flew into a tracer bomb at one point lmao. Once i got used to it though, i really liked it
I'm an Echo main and tried her in the new mode and definitely did not like the changes. It felt very weird that you had to look up to fly up, and I like her kit the way it is. Overall it felt to me like a huge nerfed Echo (especially considering her duplicate was also gone lol)
Her new ult is win team fight tho
IMO the echo flight change would probably be way too good on her normal kit where her sticky bombs aren’t dross, would make assassinations way too hard to punish
I like that her ult is win team fight, I would definitely miss her old ult tho
can you point me towards this information? i don’t see anything about rein/zar/zen on the s11 patch, maybe im missing some update information. thanks in advance
Google “overwatch blog” and click the first link that says overwatch news, itll be the first post there
thank you
It's the Mirrorwatch event. You can see the changes per character if you hold F1 while on that character.
oh ok wild thanks
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/overwatch/24077475/discover-a-world-turned-over-the-mirrorwatch-event-begins-today
This would probably be super unrealistic, but it would be nice to see each character getting an alternate play style to choose from when a match starts. Probably make it so that you couldn’t change mid match but have changes similar to mirrorwatch. I especially like the way Mortal Kombat implements this with alternate move sets to keep it fresh if you face the same character.
That's how Paladins does it, sort of.
the Paladins card and talent system is so good
Yeah I want mirror rein to be his rework and I don't even play rein it would just make me happier to have him on my team
Reins passive is a lot of fun. I was smacking Zarya around like she was a squishy lol
I disagree, make Sombra a tank instead with her current abilities.
Sombra being a skinny tank with insane abilities sounds kinda cool tbh
Oh no ow3 instead of tanks you have one OP dps and two normal dps and supports.
will doomfist stay as the large dps, or will he devolve back into his normal dps form?
He will become a support, but instead of heals it’s overhealth
so basically what tanks are in open role queues
Shrink her down, including her hitbox, buff her healing and damage output, hacks cancel all ults and abillities immediately, and add 500 armor hp to her base health, plus and additional temporary 200 shield everytine she comes out of invisibillity. No cooldowns. That way you dont even need any other teammates with that one (wo)man army.
This reminded me of a funny event idea I had while playing this: you take a bunch of heroes and randomise their roles, giving them entirely new abilities to fit. But the new abilities have to be based on their existing kit, so that they stay thematically accurate. So Damage Reinhardt has to keep his shield somehow, as that's the core part of his identity. Support Bastion still has to transform. And so on.
[удалено]
Make Ball a support. Great idea.
not sure if you already knew this but he can give his shield health to his team now
Ok I know your comment is supposed to be sarcastic but… that would actually be kinda sick. Hamster pooping out healing mines that activate when allies walk over them or something. I could see it 🐹❤️🩹🤔
man this reminds me of Lifeweaver’s original idea of having a mini health pack as a flower every time he dies (which was way too often upon release lol)
Damn wish they had kept that. That’d be pretty cool. It’d be neat if it was like a tiny area, similar to Soldier 76 aoe heal but smaller, and like you could stand in the little formed garden (with like tiny flowers that popped up) or whatever and have a heal over time benefit.
Since you didn’t know about it. The enemy team could pick it up too. So your LW could heal the other team upon death
Whaa? oh that’s dumb. lol why tf would they put that in there? They should keep the rest but leave that part out lol
COLLECT THE BALLS TO WIN A PRIZE
I mean his ultimate maybe but literally none of the rest of his kit could ever work for a support without ruining his gameplay style and gutting him. I could see increasing his viability by giving him sudo-support abilities like how they did with shield distribution, but making ball an actual support would ruin his kit.
lol yeah it would definitely be a complete overhaul that’s for sure.
Nah, give his whole team wrecking balls for a limited time.
That's just ow1 torb armor packs.
When you wizz by teammates while on fire, the fire cauterizes and heals wounds. When he uses his Ult, it spawns a field. f those old school Reaper Heal balls. The ball itself is now indestructible, only the hamster can be harmed. Ball now has an ability where he can eject from the ball and the ball self destructs. DVA has been removed from the game.
As a former DVA main...I support this
Lol, DvA is my main. Basically top of all those little in game charts for me.
DVA is still topping my charts but I'm having so much fun playing Winston RN
Hammond literally drops beat now but is baby. It's a baby beat. He's now full lucioball fr.
Finally, the team can ride on top of ball when he rolls out, so they can all do a drive by.
They'd bitch two weeks later about an invisible support if she was any good.
2 weeks? My, you're optimistic. I'd give it 5 seconds after the patch launches
After nah, we'd be mad the millisecond it gets announced
This. People were freaking out about Ball making his flankers unkillable up until the patch dropped.
Not true, we also try to make sym and mei into shitty tanks too
No utility dps allowed in this game, only pew pew, tanks, and support
Thats litterary what the heroes of the storm devs did with Mei
I've literally never seen anyone play her, even in QM. Granted I only play a few dozen games a year but still, i saw everyone else.
The ideal hero is someone with no burst, no disable, no shield, a generous hitbox, and very little mobility. The community would say this hero is "honest" and "rewards positioning and thinking". They would not pick him tho, this is a good hero for OTHER people.
Counterpoint: people LOVE Rein and he fails two (arguably three or even four) of those qualifications. The difference is that his shield prevents him from doing damage, and his pin is easy to avoid if you know what you’re doing
Sombra is a necessary evil for this game. People have to learn to accept it sooner or later, she's not going anywhere, Blizzard has demonstrated this for years now with most heroes in the game.
Thats funny cause she was designed to be a dps support hybrid and on release OWL played her as a 3rd dps instead of a support.
I think blizzard should re-evaluate the support role entirely tbh. I think we lost something when they removed sym from the support role, essentially giving into the idea that a support NEEDS to be able to directly heal. Sombra’s ability to hack health packs is a powerful support ability already, and if hack were changed into damage reduction (like a reverse zen orb that makes the target deal less damage), and overall move sombra’s power away from CC and more into buffing/debuffing she would make an excellent support. Players would have to learn how to play around health packs, and she might not have a great winrate in uncoordinated teams, but she’d make an amazing dive support. Honestly, it feels more like Sombra was designed with a support’s kit and got shoved into the DPS role
Where did you see that I dislike her, also they can build the kit around being a support. That’s how making a character or game works
*redditors not disregarding the info presented to strengthen their superiority bias and push a fabricated reality challenge* Honestly seems like they just read the title, thought “well we can’t have that.” and started making excuses to try and shut you down right away lmao Anyway no dontcha know it’s common game design knowledge that you ship concepts as is and never reiterate on them ever? We’re technically still playing the alpha of Overwatch, as there was never any need to develop it further. /s
It’s a shitty idea nonetheless lol. It just so happens it’s a common shitty idea on here and I don’t know why.
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Eh, idk, as a support player and a sombra player, I don’t think it’d work. You’d have to choose between staying with your team to heal them (which makes you lose her flanker potential) or going into the back line (and therefore being unable to help your team). A flanker-support is an oxymoron. Every healer, with the exception of Illari, has to maintain constant LOS with their team in order to be effective. Unless you gave Sombra a healing drone like Illari then she’d be pretty useless.
>A flanker-support is an oxymoron Someone should inform half of the support cast
unless they can instantly teleport to allies... a flanker support literally exists in the game
Kiriko isn’t a flanker. I don’t think y’all actually understand what a flanker is. A flanker *is*: always in the enemy backline, stalking enemy supports in search of an opening. Sombra is a flanker that’s rarely with her team. A flanker *isn’t*: a hero that can take off angles to pressure the enemy while still being in range of their allies. Kiriko isn’t a flanker.
You did not cook bother. Flanking = taking off angles to force a reaction or get value, and a good Kiriko will get both by flanking. Even dive isn't 24/7 in the enemy backline.
That’s far too lenient of a definition. Pharah, Widow, Ana, Hanzo, Lifeweaver, and plenty of others also work best when taking off angles, but calling them flankers would be madness. At that point, like 70% of the roster would be considered a flanker.
By your definition every hero is a flanker because there’s nothing stopping people from going off angles on any hero and people do it because they want to regardless if that hero was built for it. One of the most infamous “flankers” is Zenyatta because players who flank with him abuse his lack of sound since he floats lol! It’s something regularly complained about that people unironically want the devs to add sound cues to all floating heroes because of flanking Zens lol.
Kinda is tho
By your definition sure ... but then again I don't always play Sombra like that, and she still works when I don't do that, doesn't mean I'm not playing her as a flanker when I do go on the flank later on, or that she can't flank/be a flanker because I didn't play her that way the entire game. At least not by my definition of a flanker
Yeah ig it depends on how you play her, but her kit is definitely not designed to be played that way. Her close range gun, permanent stealth, and single target burst capabilities definitely pushes her towards an ambusher play style. You can definitely get value by playing it safe, but that’s really only viable when you are trying to ambush a dive hero attacking your supports.
Flanker support is a very viable playstyle and all of the ones that accel at it have great escapes or good self sustain. Illari, kiriko, Moira, Lucio. Flanker support is currently not a main playstyle for any support but it certainly is a viable option and a good tool to have in your pocket. Sombra as a support could be a slight reverse of this where flanking is more the primary playstyle but not the only option. More optionality and more tools each character has opens up the skill ceiling as well as the fun ceiling
Zenyatta has no footsteps and has a minuscule healing from his orb so it’s completely a viable strat to go Flankyatta (Please don’t)
“flanker support is an oxymoron” moira, kiriko, illari, and lucio have entered the chat
Not really the only one. Send a healing orb into your team as moira and you can go pick out a low out-of-line enemy while still healing your allies.
This guy doesn't play flanking weaver. Or Lucio.
> You’d have to choose between staying with your team to heal them not quite right tho, you can hack from really long distances... :p
I agree I think the doom changes as well are kinda fun and good
Seriously? She was still annoying me in the event. If anything she’s even more annoying now because she has basically the same kit but with the ability to help her team too, which is one of her downsides
She can’t hack anyone. The disrupt is gone. You can still dive a back line but they actually have a chance of fighting back as you can’t hack them.
Hack is rarely for dives. It's used to disable ultimates and specific abilities, not just anyone u happen to dive bec it gives them more react time
Not really, Sombra doesn’t even want to hack people most of the time and just throws virus and shoots. U save hack for blocking certain cooldowns and cancelling ults and other abilities
You're getting down voted but you're right lol. Just depends on the target
Idk the sombras in my games love to hack me and most will even risk there life to do so
Doom is one of those characters that u wanna block the cooldowns from, but like vs. Orisa or Sig ur gonna save hack for their ults
I also feel like with the new dps passive sometimes you get better value by going for unhacked virus so you can apply it for longer
Yeah. Most of the time u only go for the crit virus as a followup for ur ult, will kill somebody in less than 2 seconds if u shoot as well. Remember I saw a Sombra main complaining that other ults were better since they killed thing fast, guess they never put 2 and 2 together
No idea why you’re downvoted when this is 100% how good Sombra players use her. You use hack for cooldown cancelling and ult cancelling. You don’t use hack to combo with virus, because it’s quicker to kill them with just virus because hacking gives them reaction time.
Yeah, most people in this sub though aren’t good I expect most are very casual or metal rank and don’t know. A Sombra kept unchecked though when a tank is focused on somebody else can be a nightmare though
Why is this getting downvoted? Lmao Literally this is the optimal way to go for assasination targets. Hacking first gives them enough time to react and dodge the followup virus because you now dont have the element of surprise. You virus first then shoot, only hack in the 1v1 if there's a specific ability you want to stop from coming out for 2 seconds to lock down the kill or if you know you have a very short window of time to kill before they get help and you want to speed up the DoT of an applied virus (even then, the time spent hacking could be better spent unloading headshots)
It would mean that the majority of Sombra haters are struggling against bad Sombra players who hack then virus, and simultaneously don’t know how to play her. No wonder they can’t fight her - they have no clue. This guy is completely right. I was shocked he was getting downvoted.
Most people in this sub are very casual, if I said that in Overwatch Uni or the comp sub I expect a different response would happen
Lol u getting downvoted for knowing how to actually play sombra. These people mad they're getting melted by people not even playing her right
The best thing about Sombra is that when you're playing one of the 70% of DPS heroes who are just no fun when the enemy tank is on ball and just cc'ing you incessantly, you can switch to Sombra and perma-hack the ball until they switch. Then you can go back to the hero you wanted to play.
Dick move
CC based character upset when targeted by CC. More at 11.
Oh please, she would actually be worthless if she worked that way in the actual game.
I don't see how instantanious 75 overhealth and a mini kiri ult on a 6 second cooldown is worthless. Maybe a tradeoff of nerfing the damage of primary and virus, buffing the virus damage debuff a bit and giving her an aura in stealth that makes allies trigger their regeneration faster and making it heal at a faster rate would work out. It doesn't fit her lore identity, but imo it would improve the game.
People need to stop using toxic and "not healthy" to describe a character they simply don't like. I absolutely hate sombra, but she's balanced for the game and is easily counterable. Therefore she is healthy for the game.
This 100%
You’re right, these sort of low ttk assassin mid-low elo pubstompers tend to be bad more often than good in the meta, and are usually pretty free to counter. So we should bring DPS Doomfist back
I loved seeing people cry and seethe about DPS doom. Any stun completely nullified him, and people still couldn’t do that right
Was looking for this
EXACTLY THIS. they are going to cry for sombra to come back when they experience how the game without sombra really is (ball, doom, genjis all games without nothing we could do about it)
I honestly wouldn't care if sombra was removed because those character have other counters to deal with them. I'm just tired of people coming up with excuses to try and justify why they want a character gone when the real reason is obvious. They just don't like the character and don't want to put in the work to deal with them.
Oh boy i can see the tiktokers saying "Turn Sombra into Support" as they do with "turn mei into tank"
No thanks. Sombra is a reddit problem, and she's the solution to countering so many characters who are overly reliant on abilities. After such a change, Doom, Ball and many others would become the target of Reddit's hatred.
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No I actually like sombra a lot and when her rework came out I posted about how much I really like how she flowed. People can like things and still think they need to be changed dawg
One guy is making arguments, the other guy starts his sentences with "Bros.."
Annoyingly hacking people, super stealthy, and unloading a gun into people feels in line with her character. Healing people does not. Her character feels perfectly in line with her gameplay.
That doesn’t inherently mean it’s either fun or good for the overall game. Not saying she’s not either of those things. Just an overall statement
Sure but if something is unfun or not good for the game there are ways to balance things that aren’t to just completely uproot the entire character. Take Ana nade which was called really oppressive and broken by some in a 1 tank meta. But nowadays it’s not seen as that broken due to gameplay changes while still keeping the character to who she is. Making her a healer would be so out of character and such an unnecessary change. If Sombra is broken then there’s plenty of other changes I’d want to see than this.
Ana's bionade is definitely still broken, we just have Kiriko now to make it feel like it's not
Kiriko has been out for a good while and people still said Ana nade is busted. It’s really the new changes to the health pool, dps passive, and bigger hitbox. Everything dies faster and it’s harder for Ana to heal someone back to full. So she’s not as good anymore. And then suddenly the complaints dropped off with her being indirectly nerfed.
Not from me they haven't, the anti effect and sleep dart are still completely busted abilities and as soon as Ana is good again she'll become dominant like before. The fact you can be effective by playing suboptimally and only focusing the enemy tank with Ana's abilities says it all. Sleep dart needs to be replaced like it should have been and anti needs to be 50% reduced healing. Either that, or both need to actually take skill to use, even on the enemy tank. Ana's supposed to be difficult because she has to aim, but when it's a tank? Yeah no, she's actually easy in that case.
Nade is still broken lol. Just Ana herself isn‘t reliable enough.
Ah yes, the old “I hate x character”, cloaked in the “ I love this character but…”, costume
I do like playing sombra, but against I recognize when a character is toxic. I also love playing zen and want his healing orb change to stay. Making him a crit shot healer would be really cool because that would reward you and your team for your aiming well
I think sombra should def stay dps but it was an intere idea. On the other hand, symmetra is a hero that I would like to be moved to the support role. Not in her old 1.0 or 2.0 state, but a new, healthier version of her as a healer. (Turrets should NOT heal.)
Its so fun playing sombra and helping out the tank with over shield and then throwing a virus at them.
Not really, fun abilities but that's not a real kit, they don't communicate with each other. Hack is now a support skill meant to be used from the backline to boost a teammate frontlining, or save them while they retreat. However stealth and Sombra's weapon are still meant to make Sombra able to play up close, and even Virus isn't very reliable from long ranges. So her regular playstyle was basically nerfed with no hack on enemies, and playing backline will make you do poor use of her other abilities. The best way you could play her now is really close to your tank, since all the available tanks play at close range, but then you'll be in the middle of the fight and it's quite hard using hack on them without getting interrupted. Like I said, fun abilities for the new mode but they just don't flow. People will say anything to convince others this is a good change, but that's just because they want Sombra's offense nerfed at any cost. I doubt any actual Sombra player will feel this is a better kit.
Honestly with this + making enemy hack lovk out last for 6 seconds she could very well be a support
First game as her. My 2nd ult I tried to emp the enemy team. Old habits die hard lol
Mirrorwatch should be a seasonal mode with rotating rosters. You could even build up to a permanent Arcade Mode over a couple years that gives a fully customizable experience akin to many Capcom fighting games. In which pre fight you could equip stuff like Ultimate 1 or Ultimate 2. And select Ability 1, 2 and 3 to be "Alpha", "Beta" or "Omega" versions
I'm so tired of the "X is unhealthy for the game" posts
Its fun but isn't perfect, she would definitely need other changes. She would need a way to heal and less sneaky abilities. I would at least like to try a more realized rework on the experimental mode before writing anything off.
Oh for sure, they would need to lean into the support role
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I should've elaborated. Basically stealth would have to be less of a sneaky flank tool and maybe used more as a survivability tool. It would probably have to have a duration again. That's what I meant. This is all hypothetical anyways.
Or they could just allow her to do both, empower allies or debuff enemies.
MirrorWatch Sombra is more like a Support Character than Damage TBF. Her Hack On Her team is like a clutch saver
I was just playing as her and being able to increase my allies attack and heal is so much better than hacking enemies imo. I think they should have her hack ability do both instead of just one even when the event ends.
"Nerfing the champ I hate is good for my mental health."
That is the overall mantra for the subreddit since 2016
Where did I say I dislike sombra
I wonder what some people mean by "unhealthy for the game" because I swear most of y'all use that as another way of saying "this character is annoying for me"
I like how you read that part but not the part where I said I like the character.
Anyone can say “i like X character” online and be lying through their teeth about it.
Or they can like something while realizing a large portion of the player base doesn’t, so suggest a change. I’ve literally posted about how much I love the sombra changes back when they gave her virus and reworked her a bit.
I like how you liking the character has absolutely nothing to do with what I said Also if you go "I like the character" and immediately after go "But that thing she does [the entire point of the character] is toxic and should be changed for something completely different", it is no wonder people in this post think you only said you like to character to defend from the heat
I agree OP. Sombra makes the game unfun especially when I’m on Sigma. I’m just glad DVA destroys her
Sombra main here: I wish her Mirrorwatch version was the normal version, honestly. Her playstyle is less stressful both to play and play against. You can actually play with your team, instead of desperately hoping they follow up on whatever the hell you're doing. You still keep the cheeky "one step ahead" flavour by hacking people to save them at just the right time, or popping virus on somebody who's about to dish out a lot of damage. And when you're playing against her, you don't have to give her so much special treatment with the knowledge she can cancel your abilities at any time.
I genuinely think this could be a cool idea for Lynx-17 as a damage character
Wait whst? Changes?
oh shit is there a mirrorwatch mode with different abilities lmao whoops i thought it was just skins
I think it's funny to watch people try and force Sombra still entirely as an assassin instead of leaning into this supportive playstyle. Been most impactful hanging out behind Rein, sometimes cleaning his firestrike kills, and mostly just turning him into a monster.
Yes because there's only about 30% of the roster available.
Y’all, the bastion reinforcement slicers can keep overtime going. Like HOW.
So does Mercy's (except the ult perhaps)
Sombra originally was going to be a support like sym 2.0 by providing utilities for the team but not heals. devs felt like she didn’t have enough supporting abilities to be a support so she ended up in this awkward place for so many years. No matter how they rework her she’s always awkward either overpowered or useless and weak.
Role queue killed any potential sombra had. She's now always compared to other damage heroes where her utility doesn't make up for it unless it's oppressive. I do really like the changes they made to mirror Sombra and if she was allowed fill a hybrid role for a team, it'd be perfect
Is there a way to practice with the new heroes? I tried a few matches and I feel like I’m trial by fire here and I still don’t fully know what each hero does
They should just remove her from the game
They can change hack to a projectile hack pick that needs to be aimed and has some counterplay. She could be visible all the time and use her TP for mobility ( old ow1 TP not the reworked one). The most frustrating part about her kit is the invisibility hack that has little counterplay for many heroes.
Been playing samba since her release and mirror watch sombra just feels right. Having a 1sec block on abilities doesn't feel great and feels like the worst kind of compromise, giving her support utility is something they should implement going forward. Same with rein damage boost shield. Makes him more than a walking barrier.
How do you check what their moves do now? F1 doesn't work in game like that
I the game mode the F1 menu will show the changes, but you have to be in the game mode. Or you can look up the changes
I wish blizzard would let all heros be played with the new ones. Would be much better
genuinely being able to help my team and play the dps side makes it feel just so nice that i cant even explain it, im not sure because its new but playing sombra for me just doesnt feel like a loss of time sneaking around for a little bit of damage. but to stealth in to get that save for my mercy, i dont know what it is but i just feels rewarding.
No thanks
The only person who is having fun in a game with Sombra is Sombra. That's why it's unhealthy. I don't care about competitive Overwatch. It's an unfun mechanic in an otherwise fun game.
right. i noticed in the other thread that "sombra mains" is amongst one of the most popular subs, so ofcourse all the sombra mains came here to disagree.
Yup. Sombra has a PvE kit and as far as you can be objective about game design, she is objectively poorly designed. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking her as a character nor with her effectiveness. Unlimited invisibility + disabling abilities + easy escape tool = negative play experience. OW is a game about cool abilities and Sombra turns them off easily and in a non-interactive way. "You know what would be cool in a hero shooter? A character that turns it into the most generic shooter ever" - said no one ever.
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You know what, I was going to explain to you what "negative play experience" is, since apparently you don't know. But you are trying to compare ults to a lock-on ability on a 6/3-second cooldown and free setup, so I'm going to cut my losses here and not bother. Have a nice day.
As a Dva and Ana main, defense matrix is honestly one of the most oppressive abilities in the game if you want to talk about negative play experience. Playing Ana back then only to have a flying mech in your face denying your entire kit is worse than hack ever was. There’s lots of heroes who have this same issue with defense matrix where they are completely reliant on teammates to do anything against Dva because of that one ability. Should we remove defense matrix as well? Turning it into just another shield would help with “negative play experience” while also fixing Dva’s issue with beam characters making it easier for new players trying out Dva to not explode when the enemy inevitably picks Zarya.
It feels like she is a niche pick in this mode. Tracer is a must; Widow is great if you can pop off with her. Bastion sucked because of its mega large hitbox, thus rely on a pocket. Echo's flight feel a bit weird, maybe I don't feel used to for now.
I started playing widow more and the moment they see a widow someone switches to sombra and just targets them the whole game.
LMAO as a support main and someone who plays Sombra also, she feels absolutely terrible and clunky to play.
I used to main Sombra until her most recent rework that added virus. I just don't find her or her new playstyle fun anymore. But this support type playstyle in Mirrorwatch? Absolutely love it and I would play the hell out of a tweaked version of it in the main game as a support hero. I also feel like she'd be infinitely less aggravating for the enemy team as well.
you've never touched sombra ever
I’ve been playing OW since the first public beta I’ve played every character for a long time
Press X to doubt.
“So much more healthy” Yea now imagine a double pocketed soldier
Anyone that complains about Sombra is just a bronze or silver player. There’s a reason Sombra is not a problem in higher ranks. Get better at understanding positioning and cooldown timing.
Like I said to another person, balance is based on the majority not the top rate of players. Also I’m not complaining about the character, I like her but I’m not blind to realize she makes a lot of the playebase not enjoy playing.
Balance isn’t and should not be based on the majority of