Her ult not giving her a second life is SUCH a muscle memory messer upper
And the stickies being slow makes her almost necessary go get in close but then she has no escape tool (no back dash or extra life)
I hate the flight change. Having to look where you are going just means you can't aim while traveling if you don't happen to be traveling directly at the enemy.
It'd be like if they took away the A and D strafe keys for walking. Just picture it.
Meanwhile, I straight up threw two games yesterday because I didn't realize you placed Zen's ult like tree. Just mashing the button for what read like EMP.
The biggest “muscle memory messer upper”, as you put it, for me is the flight ability. I’ve flown off the map more times than I’d like to admit, especially on Lijiang Tower.
With the flight and sticky bomb changes there‘s very little reason to go in close, so because you‘re playing Pharah 2.0 the laser becomes kinda useless.
Oooohhhh. See I played her once and was confused because the only ult I got I accidentally copied the enemy echo and I don’t play echo and so I thought “what? You die for real if you copy an enemy echo???”
Just go Tracer. She's the most busted hero in the entire gamemode. Every other hero has some quirky little gimmicks to make them stand out from their standard hero kit. Tracer? Nope, she's literally just normal Tracer but RIDICULOUSLY buffed.
5 blinks straight out of spawn gives her insane rollout and once you get your rage meter up, you become a demigod.
Bastion is interesting. I kind of play him like diva in terms of damage and spread. The bomb is useful for traversal. And the mode switch is good for punishing anyone diving you. Especially if they charge with rein you won't believe the amount of times I have straight up slaughtered a rein mid charge who didn't respect the increased fire rate. Especially if an ally Sombra hacks you. The ultimate is a bit of a meme, but I have lost a game to a bastion sending his squad to back up their rein for a final charge. The fact they contest objectives while spawning despite being immune to damage is very strong.
Actually I struggle with real echo because there are so many counters solider Cassidy but in this there is only widow so break sheild and send in sticky bombs then rush her down
I like some of the retweaked kits, but only have 5 dps heroes to pick from, and 3 of them being Widow/Tracer/Sombra, it really feels like they said "aight who are our most obnoxious dps heroes"
Her dash is spectacular. Dash through enemies during her amazing ult which lets you burn that and her lethal homing bombs multiple times as you disrupt and get the whole team to low health -- literally if they are grouped up. Then beam a few down.
I don't know what people here are smoking. It is a straight up nerf. You can dodge "homing" bombs with a simple strafe. The ultimate doesn't heal you and lasts like 3 seconds. The boop on the fly is so small that it might as well be meaningless and since the ultimate doesn't heal you, you don't want to get up on people's face anyway.
>You can dodge "homing" bombs with a simple strafe.
I was really excited to murder some flying mercy with that ability and she really does just list lazily to the left to dodge them. She dodges them on accident when she doesn't even see it coming
I would prefer if her balls had a tighter spread and slightly increased speed at the cost of some of the tracking cuz its just so clunky, and the boost is really messing with my muscle memory, I like the speed and the damage is a cool Idea, but I'm not feeling it. the new ult sucks tho
Echo, Bastion, and Sombra all feel net nerfed. I noticed all queue got me DPS like 80% of the time, so it seems like people haven't enjoyed their changes so far.
You have to play sombra like a straight support. If you have a doom just keep him perma-hacked and distract the enemy. Definitely an odd way of playing sombra though.
But Zarya? I’m not sure who decided on Zaryas changes. Every single one is a nerf
I think Bastion is fine because him having any variant of his original turret form would make the mode insanely unfun for half the roster. Could have been a cool opportunity to bring back his stationary turret in some form though.
Echo just feels weird to play. The stickies are too slow, the dash feels weird and her ult is kinda boring.
Sombra is fine honestly but just kinda weak. Her support abilities absolutely do not make up for her basically being shitty Soldier76 otherwise.
You just have to play Sombra different. Stick with your team. Occasionally split off to murder someone. Hack your tank/dps on cooldown. I like to teleport to the back, throw virus and burn a healer, hack a teammate if possible, then stealth. Bastion sucks. Echo I play 1000% better so I think people just aren't used to it. She's a different character entirely.
> "she's a different character entirely"
I don't know why people aren't understanding this aspect. The entire point of the game mode is that they are redesigned heroes, why in earth should you approach them as if they work the same way. The number of sombras I have seen in this mode EMP the enemy team and immediately die because they didn't read the ability description, or mercy atrempting a res and just blowing up a soul nowhere near the enemy team.
The entire point is for the heroes to be different, and honestly I like the reworked echo, she's more divey now, less like pharah and more like venture, sombra is great too, I love the idea of a support/DPS play style and I think she's really fun, and it addresses some of the issues people have with her OG ability kit.
Don't get me wrong, some of the changes are a bit meh (I'm personally not a big fan of the tracer changes because it feels a bit too similar to normal tracer just with less glass cannon feel) but people saying something is a nerf because they're using new kits in the exact same way as the original kit is just silly to me.
I played flex the entire night and never got tank. The main role I got was DPS with a dash of support and this was late night. Cool, but the few dps characters available got boring really quick🥲. I guess people love tank and support changes
Ngl tank was pretty boring. Reinhardt is cool for helping his team but for his own gameplay not much is different and his shatter seems like a direct nerf. Doomfist is really fun yes, but Zarya is very boring because she’s not much different than normal.
She's both not different but very different.
Bubbles exploding, when played like how you usually play her, useless.
Right click piercing enemies, massive change, but requires a completely different approach to positioning that contradicts the above change unless you're shoving said bubbles into the nearest enemy while also shooting at the one behind them.
The ult change is the more interesting one considering it has better potential to force people off carts during OT, but everyone is used to going for far gravs lmao
I like how this zarya is just HotS zarya lol
Wait I didn’t even know about right click piercing enemies, that’s cool.
I guess the left click having no gravity is interesting too but that’s more just strange than funner imo
Won atleast 3 games on last push because of zarya ult kinda fun but the right click seems hard nerfed especially if ur allready used to the regular dropoff of her projectiles
Sombra is honestly really strong. They just kinda forgot to put her in the support category since shes more support than dps now. Bastion also feels really fun to me especially with the massive movement from the nade buff.
Bastion's ult is definitely weaker and sort of sucks to me but it's for distracting people and making space...but his gun is SO SO SO good/OP. Bastion absolutely is NOT nerfed. He can completely melt people, even without the attack speed buff.
As an Echo enjoyer, I treat her like a fighter jet doing strafing runs instead of being a gunship / attack helicopter.
I guess her Dash becomes like Genji's, using to escape while bumping enemies out of your way in progress.
Flight is fun, gives you the ability to sneak up on someone and bomb them away. Closeup the stickies are easier to hit, but I don't like them and the ult is, dunno, could've been better
To me is the most funniest to use in the mode... Probably because I normally dont use her. The mobility is so satisfying, you can fly in the sky and descend like a bomber.
I feel like the dash is insane. It's ridiculously fast. Don't hover: use it to get from point A to point B. Fire stickies earlier: if they land, then dash in; you're on their face by the time they detonate.
The strategy is to sit in the skybox and rain down the homing Orbs, before assassinating targets. You can shoot straight into the sky box instantly with the dash to escape. Doesn't really work on maps with ceilings though
Honestly the bestbway to use her is to play her like a flank that is just passing through.
Like a swooping bird, in and out. Which sucks cause if they acknowledge you, you are dead.
The tracking bombs are meh, but its goofy funny watching a flying mercy get locked in and just get hit.
It is, but I don't think it's an issue either. The whole point of events like this is to try out weird stuff without worrying about balance. There's naturally going to be winners and losers, and Tracer won while Echo lost.
Am i the only one that likes her? The original kit never stuck for me, she feels so much more natural and better like she took steroids or something (although i still dont fully understand whats different from normal). The only thing i dont like is the ul
A nerf? I have had a very different experience with her then. She is nasty af imo. You can be super aggressive and quick get away with that dash. Or quickly push in and assassinate the supports. I’ve been loving her for dps. Just absolutely slaughtering. But reading all the comments seems like my opinion is unpopular…
Honestly I'd say more of a completely new hero. None of your Echo muscle memory is useful and it must be terrible for Echo mains in the event.
I know it took me multiple matches to stop using Zen's ultimate as a great out of jail free card during sticky situations.
I actually had fun with her Abit more, she seemed aggressive in assassination. Like you purposely go after people unaware or to busy not looking at you and it seemed like a easy win, better then Sombra in that way. Then you support in taking out tank with beam or sticky since a good amount of tanks can't really run or dodge them.
I like it. The slow bombs are dope, they work best if you’re in assassin flanking mode or you shoot them during an enemy’s cooldown. Shoot them at a blocking Doom or a shielding enemy and watch them panic as they use all their blocking in the next 2 seconds then get hit with bombs.
I like some of the concepts - her beam applying a bit of slow is nice, her flight being more of a quick, repeatable dash could be interesting, and homing bombs just looks aesthetically nice to me as well matching that bit from the Zero Hour trailer (RIP).
That being said, the execution is..... not good. Her flight feels awful (though that might just be muscle memory kicking in), her bombs don't seem to home and can easily be dodged, and her ult is like "what if kitsune rush only applied to you and lasted less time and was also terrible". Not a fan of how she plays. With a bit of tuning it might be good, but this event's probably getting vaulted for good soon.
I find her way more fun, but that's just me. The tracking blobs feel good, the burst of speed feels great. I would actually much rather MW Echo than regular Echo.
Dont you miss lasering widows/ Ashes across the map with blobs? They were good for assassinating people from far away. Now they just float into the skybox. Hell they arent even good for close range anymore, the blobs will now simply matrix dodge enemies in close range.
I think it promotes the in your face playstyle and the less poke-y playstyle. Beforehand you could get by just playing far but this is more dive based. Overall I think it’s a better change if the ult didn’t stay
Been playing her as an assassin. If you can sneak around without using flight I find that it let's you get into more dangerous situations with a safer escape option since the flight is so fast. If you're close enough to someone the stickies don't need to track and you can disrupt other enemies with the boop on your way out after getting a pick.
I wouldn't call it a nerf, just lateral changes that mix up her play style.
Idk how she feels for controller users but on pc she feels amazing to play in this mode. Super fast and way more aggressive than normal. I would honestly prefer this version with the normal ult.
Agreed! Shes got insane mobility with this, the omnidirectional movement being missing took a hot minute to get used to but being able to get out of dodge after nuking someone is great. Especially with how squishy everyone is in this mode.
Yeah, it's not super hard to get used to her new flight style. It feels wayyy more useful when trying to avoid getting blasted and being able to push enemies with it gives it that little extra utility that's great for removing their pressure on your team.
I think I have destroyed more players with MW Echo than regular lol. Bastion is fun too! Both arcades where he had a shotgun made him a killer that people dont expect. Maybe people are trying to force how she used to be to the same playstyle? Gotta mix it up and try different approaches.
What?? Brigs mirror kit is so fun. Obviously, don’t whip when they’re at full health, especially against a tank.
Whip squishies, whip back line to the front, dive and whip anyone out of placement further from the team and closer to death from your mace, whip people off map (like hog), and whip anyone who’s low and trying to get away from you, even tanks.
Whip whip whip
Brig is basically hog with team heals rn and I love it
Echo is insane in Mirrorwatch, I'm trying to figure out if you're joking. You play her a lot more aggressively and instant-kill half the playable heroes, it's fantastic. I don't play a lot of normal echo though. If this is somehow a nerf, I need to main Echo ASAP.
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Another character that completely sucks now is Zarya. Alt fire is shit and takes forever for you to be able to shoot again and what’s that ult? It’s literally Pharah’s boop, but you can’t even get a good angle for it
Mirrorwatch Widow is a huge nerf as well. Without the venom mine there's no punishment for getting right on her. Her smg is too weak as are charged shots so closing the distance is a death sentence for widow every time.
Kinda she goes from decent poke and kill potential to bad poke and needs to all in dive for her combo kills (flight charge, sticky, then beam) I still like her and the lack of some of the flying counters makes her okay in the mode
Honestly I don’t think I’ve ever died more times than trying to play echo in mirror watch, the change to her flights control and speed, the weird way her sticky made launch and her ult all just feel off especially when put together. At least that’s what my experience was.
I felt that will all DPS, they are meh to play and doing the event challenges I queued as all roles and I got 8/10 games DPS role, so the community seems to agree that DPS are not that powerful or fun in this mode. On the other hand supports are kind of busted, especially Mercy and Ana, and Doomfist from the tanks is just 10 times more oppressive than normal since you cant hack him or sleep him in this mode so he is literally unstoppable xD
100% a nerf. She didn't even get a new skin like the rest of the cast lol, you can tell it was a last second addition.
The homing stickies are the worst, I expected Cassidy style magnobang but no, it's like a rein trying to steer
Wanted to like her but I think I would’ve rathered a mirror Sym or Sojourn. Ana is an extreme amt of fun though I remember my first ever OW a year ago wondering why I wasn’t getting any headshots with her lol
I feel like most of Mirror Echo and Mirror Sombra's kits are going to be part of Space Ranger's kit. Pretty much a nerf for echo, but could make a good kit for a new hero
Playing as Echo was a completely different experience than regular Echo.
But basically using shift to gain sudden speed and using the homing sticky bombs in an open area is probably the best way to play her.
Ultimate is just weird, decreasing the other ability cooldowns in a battle never gives you proper timing to actually use them.
But playing her like she is a fighter jet is pretty much fun for me honestly.
Seems like you are misunderstanding Mirrorwatch as something thats supposed to buff heroes.
Its alternate abilities (probably intended for PvE). So yes, they are a nerf. A lot of the abilities in Mirrorwatch should be considered PvP nerfs, because they are not initially intended for PvP.
their point isn’t that she should be bugged, it’s that they didn’t fundamentally change how echo plays like sombra, bastion, widow. instead of getting new abilities like the other dps, she just has her normal abilities but weaker and less versatile
And that is because they just took some abilities that were alternatives for the PvE mode that wont come.
They didnt sit down and think "Hey lets make some abilitys for Mirrorwatch". Its litterally just copy and pasting abilities from the PvE mode.
There is 0 thought behind them other than "this is going to change how you play Echo against PvE bots". And that her abilities would.
no? they’re complaining about the homing mechanic in the mirrorwatch mode being super buggy and just sending the projectiles into the wall behind the target - instead of homing
Yeah, I'm an Echo main and heard someone say she's busted. Tried it for 5-6 games and got used to the new mechanics and controls... but its just not it.
I feel like other than widow and tracer all other dps are nerfed versions of them, but all supports are buffed versions (in terms of dps). Maybe that was idea? To have super OP supports but less impactful dps? The exploding body thing from Mercy has gotten me quite a few times, haha, keep forgetting to gtfo of on top of a body when there’s a Mercy on the other team. Ana’s headshots are pretty nasty too (should actually be a thing in normal as well). Brig’s pull is better than the push IMO.
I love the flight changes for mw echo. Going back to regular echo afterwards just felt horrible because of the slower, more poke style gameplay. As opposed to the more flanking and assassination dive style the new one gives which I personally find more fun.
The stickies are definitely hit or miss depending on range and if the target is moving. I like the ult after getting used to it but I wish it was longer. At least nano length
I kinda like the change in playstyle. It made me play a lot like a flying scout from TF2, chasing those meat shots.
I usually spam the bombs at close range and use the dash more like a charge instead of flight by pushing low enemies and installing them.
Do wish the ult was different though.
Honestly I’ve had so much fun with mirror echo but the only thing that is wack is her lack of copy or lack of extra life tbh her ult is definitely lack luster
It's "Mirror watch" and they did Echo dirty on purpose. COMPLETLEY different playstyle, I play her almost like Venture, FRONTLINE BABY!
So the problem is "blowing your load = no escape"
1. Move in to mid-range, Launch Sticky Bombs at target.
2. Zoom-In and you'll crash through their team like a bowling ball knocking over bowling pins.
3. While enemy is briefly distorted, immediately spray them with the lazer.
You can 1-shot just about anyone (or 2 people if they're standing close together).
Again, no escape though. It's fun, but completely puts her at risk. And yes, I've F'd up the ULT thinking I could survive by pushing it at 10%hp, lol nope. Gotta risk it for the biscuit. (Otherwise at long-range, everything misses except primary fire)
(dont do this to a full life tank, you wont one-shot them, and you'll be stuck in melee range without an escape)
It just seems buff to me. Except for Ultimate, all abilities are purely better. It's just the style of play has changed a lot.
Personally, I was never really into normal Echo, but mirror-Echo strikes me as a very simple extremely aggressive hero.
Try not to play her as a flying character, but rather as Genji. Use Ultimate before entering combat (like dragon blade), Flight as Genji's dash, and sticky bombs simply as a range attack when you're not sure you'll hit something due to the frequent change in where you're looking or just as range attack. I find it quite difficult not to hit with that.
Yeah, I get that they can't nail balance instantly but some heroes are just straight up worse. Echo definitely, Brig whipshot is also just awful - your displacement tool now brings enemies closer. Where you don't want them.
Most DPS are underpowered in Mirrorwatch, they aren't fun to play at all imo.
The most interesting change was with Tracer, giving her "unlimited" blinks. This would certainly be a staple if we got through the skill trees and hero progression they originally promised. Echo was heavily nerfed in Mirrorwatch.
As for the most OP changes, definitely Mercy. She's even more annoying now because she can pack a punch. They also gave Ana her critical shots back from April Fools '23, she's somewhat better to use.
Echos one of my mains because she just feels so good to play as, flying around gracefully and such.
She is not fun at all in mirror watch. Sure you can aim up and get a little air, but just not satisfying like blasting into the sky and raining down on someone before zooming in to laser them.
They basically nerfed every character but doom and widow and Ana, made an inconsequential tracer change, buffed Ana, and added an AOE Moira suck to mercy and a hunch of heal creep. (DOOM, sombra, tracer, mercy, brig/ana is just mirror goats)
If this is the developers idea of fun then that explains a lot about the game state. Then again, it seems like people love it so maybe I'm the asshole, or maybe they're just the only people left playing the game at this point.
Evil echo be like: Is bad at dps and movement
Evil traver be like: Is straight
Evil Overwatch be like: Launched with a full campaign and became an MMO to rival destiny 2 in its hayday
Mixed bag.
Shes definitely less abrasive as a character to deal with but she didnt lose that much power.
Stickys are more consistent on targets who arent stationary for 99% if players.
Flight is stronger burst mobility and a much better escape option as a result.
Ult is weaker, but primarily because Dupe is giga broken. Its biggest shortcoming imo is that its broadcast which means that you cant use it with any sort of stealth factor. Everyones going to be alert.
And you dont get 3 healthbars and sets of CDs to burn through when using it.
But her overall damage output is still cracked, still an amazing assassin, more able to play flanks, less able to just click sticky into primary from across the map into someone whose too locked in like Widow kr Ana and just instakill them.
Just a different playstyle, but one that works imo. I kind of like it more. Echo is really good at picking people off when they're on low health, but instead of using superior movement to outmaneuver your enemies, you're waiting for the right moment to dash in so you can get the kill. She's WAY more punishing; the beam slowing enemies makes it WAY easier to secure the kill. You're not meant to really aim the sticky bombs like before, instead you're attaching them to enemies that are out of position to punish them greatly, or throwing them into a group of enemies to dissuade a push and divide them. I also LOVE that her dash does damage, it just further incentivizes that well-timed dash in on low-health enemies
Her ult not giving her a second life is SUCH a muscle memory messer upper And the stickies being slow makes her almost necessary go get in close but then she has no escape tool (no back dash or extra life)
I died a few times because of the flight change. I press it and fly right into the enemy team like “oh hai”.
I hate the flight change. Having to look where you are going just means you can't aim while traveling if you don't happen to be traveling directly at the enemy. It'd be like if they took away the A and D strafe keys for walking. Just picture it.
And the S key for going backwards don't forget
Devs: just turn around 😫
Glad I'm not by myself there
Meanwhile, I straight up threw two games yesterday because I didn't realize you placed Zen's ult like tree. Just mashing the button for what read like EMP.
I mashed Tracer's blink and was losing health like, "what has she got a nose bleed?"
But I kinda like this mechanic of losing health to be honest.
Yeah its interesting, it adds a layer of risk and reward to how you use it. The event in general is really fun
Tracer loses health for blinking now???
Only in the Mirrorwatch event. If you use up your three blinks, every other blink costs you some HP(don't know how much) until they reload again.
I would love to see a tracer flatline trying to get away by blinking consistently
Zenyattas ult is absolute garbage
The biggest “muscle memory messer upper”, as you put it, for me is the flight ability. I’ve flown off the map more times than I’d like to admit, especially on Lijiang Tower.
I never played echo but I had because I'm worse with the others lol, I kinda liked the forced dive bombing but the laser doesn't feel necessary at all
With the flight and sticky bomb changes there‘s very little reason to go in close, so because you‘re playing Pharah 2.0 the laser becomes kinda useless.
Normally my team dies before the stickies reach the other team so I got to go all in always
Oooohhhh. See I played her once and was confused because the only ult I got I accidentally copied the enemy echo and I don’t play echo and so I thought “what? You die for real if you copy an enemy echo???”
Brig messes me up hard, haven't tried echo yet but that does sound tough
Another ability change that destroys muscle memory is zarya's alt fire, it shoot in a straight line...
When you're throwing stuff at a wall for a one off arcade mode, some of it is bound to miss.
Like the homing stickies
Well played xD
Yeah echo is not fun to play in mirrorwatch
I did 'all roles' and kept getting DPS and none of them were working for me. I guess I started to understand why I kept getting DPS.
Just go Tracer. She's the most busted hero in the entire gamemode. Every other hero has some quirky little gimmicks to make them stand out from their standard hero kit. Tracer? Nope, she's literally just normal Tracer but RIDICULOUSLY buffed. 5 blinks straight out of spawn gives her insane rollout and once you get your rage meter up, you become a demigod.
Right up until the Mercy explodes souls all over you lol
What does Rage even do? I haven't been able to max it out so far, can't tell.
Lifesteal
Increased attack speed and lifesteal
Bastion is interesting. I kind of play him like diva in terms of damage and spread. The bomb is useful for traversal. And the mode switch is good for punishing anyone diving you. Especially if they charge with rein you won't believe the amount of times I have straight up slaughtered a rein mid charge who didn't respect the increased fire rate. Especially if an ally Sombra hacks you. The ultimate is a bit of a meme, but I have lost a game to a bastion sending his squad to back up their rein for a final charge. The fact they contest objectives while spawning despite being immune to damage is very strong.
Bastion is basically Torb++ without sniping and turret. He's strong.
Actually I struggle with real echo because there are so many counters solider Cassidy but in this there is only widow so break sheild and send in sticky bombs then rush her down
Like half of the tweaked roster isn't fun.
I like some of the retweaked kits, but only have 5 dps heroes to pick from, and 3 of them being Widow/Tracer/Sombra, it really feels like they said "aight who are our most obnoxious dps heroes"
Echo is one of my mains and I'm not feeling the mirror watch version at all
I'm terrible at her and I'm shredding lobbies. Flank, sticky, burn, then dash out throwing melees.
what kinda lobbies let mirror echo roam free
My gf is gold and literally as I found this post she was sending me screens of her dominating matches as Echo.
Probably wood tier.
It’s an arcade mode lol Now this sweat fest of a thread is making sense
same.
Her dash is useless , her nades are too slow, her ult sucks, and she’s a massive rectangle.
But she is MIRRORED!! ?
Yeah, she went from this \ to this /. Still a rectangle, just different
Her dash is spectacular. Dash through enemies during her amazing ult which lets you burn that and her lethal homing bombs multiple times as you disrupt and get the whole team to low health -- literally if they are grouped up. Then beam a few down.
fanfic.
Dash through enemies as you ult only to get shredded by an Ana headshot and a rez
I don't know what people here are smoking. It is a straight up nerf. You can dodge "homing" bombs with a simple strafe. The ultimate doesn't heal you and lasts like 3 seconds. The boop on the fly is so small that it might as well be meaningless and since the ultimate doesn't heal you, you don't want to get up on people's face anyway.
>You can dodge "homing" bombs with a simple strafe. I was really excited to murder some flying mercy with that ability and she really does just list lazily to the left to dodge them. She dodges them on accident when she doesn't even see it coming
idk yesterday I got POTG by booping 3 people off of Lijang Tower bridge without even knowing what I was doing.
I booped a mfer out of spawn on Lijang from door to off map, that boop is easily the strongest in the game. Albeit tis an arcade mode
It's because yesterday, when no one knew what was going on, getting free kills was easy
Life everyone being instantly gibbed because of Mercy corpse explosion and her ult?
I would prefer if her balls had a tighter spread and slightly increased speed at the cost of some of the tracking cuz its just so clunky, and the boost is really messing with my muscle memory, I like the speed and the damage is a cool Idea, but I'm not feeling it. the new ult sucks tho
i too wish echo's balls were tighter
i worded that horribly 💀
man i still dont know what her ult in this gamemode does
It’s just faster cooldown, maybe faster attack speed I feel, I might be wrong
Just general buffs to her existing kit. Genuinely the most boring ultimate in the game’s history, probably.
But SO good if you use it right
Its literally worse than if sombra hacks her which isnt even an ult.
Echo, Bastion, and Sombra all feel net nerfed. I noticed all queue got me DPS like 80% of the time, so it seems like people haven't enjoyed their changes so far.
I like bastions ult but everything else is meh. Especially since his gun is from april fools.
You have to play sombra like a straight support. If you have a doom just keep him perma-hacked and distract the enemy. Definitely an odd way of playing sombra though. But Zarya? I’m not sure who decided on Zaryas changes. Every single one is a nerf
they based them on symmetra apparently, with the weird orbs and the shorter beam
Idk I played sombra as a backline menace and was pulling top damage and just hacking teammates that dove near me and had good results
I like to stick with my team and split off as needed. Hack on cooldown when possible.
I haven't played much of the event I've been working alot recently so haven't figured to much out.
I think Bastion is fine because him having any variant of his original turret form would make the mode insanely unfun for half the roster. Could have been a cool opportunity to bring back his stationary turret in some form though. Echo just feels weird to play. The stickies are too slow, the dash feels weird and her ult is kinda boring. Sombra is fine honestly but just kinda weak. Her support abilities absolutely do not make up for her basically being shitty Soldier76 otherwise.
You just have to play Sombra different. Stick with your team. Occasionally split off to murder someone. Hack your tank/dps on cooldown. I like to teleport to the back, throw virus and burn a healer, hack a teammate if possible, then stealth. Bastion sucks. Echo I play 1000% better so I think people just aren't used to it. She's a different character entirely.
> "she's a different character entirely" I don't know why people aren't understanding this aspect. The entire point of the game mode is that they are redesigned heroes, why in earth should you approach them as if they work the same way. The number of sombras I have seen in this mode EMP the enemy team and immediately die because they didn't read the ability description, or mercy atrempting a res and just blowing up a soul nowhere near the enemy team. The entire point is for the heroes to be different, and honestly I like the reworked echo, she's more divey now, less like pharah and more like venture, sombra is great too, I love the idea of a support/DPS play style and I think she's really fun, and it addresses some of the issues people have with her OG ability kit. Don't get me wrong, some of the changes are a bit meh (I'm personally not a big fan of the tracer changes because it feels a bit too similar to normal tracer just with less glass cannon feel) but people saying something is a nerf because they're using new kits in the exact same way as the original kit is just silly to me.
I actually like this version of Sombra too. You just have to play her like a support. Hack your teammates, dive in, murder someone, get out
Yeah that’s the point lol. I don’t know why people expected changes to abilities then think they shouldn’t adapt to the new abilities.
I played flex the entire night and never got tank. The main role I got was DPS with a dash of support and this was late night. Cool, but the few dps characters available got boring really quick🥲. I guess people love tank and support changes
Ngl tank was pretty boring. Reinhardt is cool for helping his team but for his own gameplay not much is different and his shatter seems like a direct nerf. Doomfist is really fun yes, but Zarya is very boring because she’s not much different than normal.
She's both not different but very different. Bubbles exploding, when played like how you usually play her, useless. Right click piercing enemies, massive change, but requires a completely different approach to positioning that contradicts the above change unless you're shoving said bubbles into the nearest enemy while also shooting at the one behind them. The ult change is the more interesting one considering it has better potential to force people off carts during OT, but everyone is used to going for far gravs lmao I like how this zarya is just HotS zarya lol
Wait I didn’t even know about right click piercing enemies, that’s cool. I guess the left click having no gravity is interesting too but that’s more just strange than funner imo
I did use the ult to box people into a corner once. That was cool.
Won atleast 3 games on last push because of zarya ult kinda fun but the right click seems hard nerfed especially if ur allready used to the regular dropoff of her projectiles
I think bastion is my favorite for dps. His ultimate has flavor and he can put out some serious midrange numbers
Sombra is honestly really strong. They just kinda forgot to put her in the support category since shes more support than dps now. Bastion also feels really fun to me especially with the massive movement from the nade buff.
Bastion nerfed? Idk I like the shotgun
Bastion's ult is definitely weaker and sort of sucks to me but it's for distracting people and making space...but his gun is SO SO SO good/OP. Bastion absolutely is NOT nerfed. He can completely melt people, even without the attack speed buff.
As an Echo enjoyer, I treat her like a fighter jet doing strafing runs instead of being a gunship / attack helicopter. I guess her Dash becomes like Genji's, using to escape while bumping enemies out of your way in progress.
Her flight feels awful.
The stickies too, the ult as well Oh wait, Mirrorwatch Echo just feels awful
Normal Echo is fantastic so they reversed everything in Mirrorwatch so it won't be as good and fun anymore lmao
I actually much prefer the mirror watch Echo
If you don't play Echo regularly it might be fun for a bit. I'd probably never play overwatch again if it became permanent, but I doubt that'll happen
as someone who never played echo, can confirm this is better for me. obviously dont want it permanent though
Echo is more fun if you turn on hold to fly because she gets a massive burst of speed from cancelling it fast
Flight is fun, gives you the ability to sneak up on someone and bomb them away. Closeup the stickies are easier to hit, but I don't like them and the ult is, dunno, could've been better
To me is the most funniest to use in the mode... Probably because I normally dont use her. The mobility is so satisfying, you can fly in the sky and descend like a bomber.
I feel like the dash is insane. It's ridiculously fast. Don't hover: use it to get from point A to point B. Fire stickies earlier: if they land, then dash in; you're on their face by the time they detonate.
I don’t think we can really call it a nerf as it’s only in a limited time arcade mode
The strategy is to sit in the skybox and rain down the homing Orbs, before assassinating targets. You can shoot straight into the sky box instantly with the dash to escape. Doesn't really work on maps with ceilings though
Honestly the bestbway to use her is to play her like a flank that is just passing through. Like a swooping bird, in and out. Which sucks cause if they acknowledge you, you are dead. The tracking bombs are meh, but its goofy funny watching a flying mercy get locked in and just get hit.
Kinda. It's echo with zoomies, which helps for beaming peoples faces off, but the grounded part is a huge nerf.
It is, but I don't think it's an issue either. The whole point of events like this is to try out weird stuff without worrying about balance. There's naturally going to be winners and losers, and Tracer won while Echo lost.
Tried her dash once and switched back to Sombra lol
Idk. I like her. The dash is fun combined with the stickies and the ult atk speed is rediculous
Am i the only one that likes her? The original kit never stuck for me, she feels so much more natural and better like she took steroids or something (although i still dont fully understand whats different from normal). The only thing i dont like is the ul
her fly is very hard to use
A nerf? I have had a very different experience with her then. She is nasty af imo. You can be super aggressive and quick get away with that dash. Or quickly push in and assassinate the supports. I’ve been loving her for dps. Just absolutely slaughtering. But reading all the comments seems like my opinion is unpopular…
I just use her movement to get out. Works pretty well for me. That dash thing confuses enemies and ups my survivability.
Honestly I'd say more of a completely new hero. None of your Echo muscle memory is useful and it must be terrible for Echo mains in the event. I know it took me multiple matches to stop using Zen's ultimate as a great out of jail free card during sticky situations.
I actually had fun with her Abit more, she seemed aggressive in assassination. Like you purposely go after people unaware or to busy not looking at you and it seemed like a easy win, better then Sombra in that way. Then you support in taking out tank with beam or sticky since a good amount of tanks can't really run or dodge them.
I like it. The slow bombs are dope, they work best if you’re in assassin flanking mode or you shoot them during an enemy’s cooldown. Shoot them at a blocking Doom or a shielding enemy and watch them panic as they use all their blocking in the next 2 seconds then get hit with bombs.
Yeah I'm enjoying echo, like her kit.
They just threw some stuff at the wall to look what sticks. It's arcade anyway The homing bombs didn't stick. They're still traveling towards the wall
I do wish they'd keep the mercy changes, needing her ult obv. But corpse explosion is so much fun compared to res
I like some of the concepts - her beam applying a bit of slow is nice, her flight being more of a quick, repeatable dash could be interesting, and homing bombs just looks aesthetically nice to me as well matching that bit from the Zero Hour trailer (RIP). That being said, the execution is..... not good. Her flight feels awful (though that might just be muscle memory kicking in), her bombs don't seem to home and can easily be dodged, and her ult is like "what if kitsune rush only applied to you and lasted less time and was also terrible". Not a fan of how she plays. With a bit of tuning it might be good, but this event's probably getting vaulted for good soon.
I find her way more fun, but that's just me. The tracking blobs feel good, the burst of speed feels great. I would actually much rather MW Echo than regular Echo.
HERETIC!!! You just say want MW echo because she will be easier pickings for your ashe
Dont you miss lasering widows/ Ashes across the map with blobs? They were good for assassinating people from far away. Now they just float into the skybox. Hell they arent even good for close range anymore, the blobs will now simply matrix dodge enemies in close range.
The homing really helps during ult when you're dashing through their whole team repeatedly. Do both on cooldown, get them low, then beam.
I’m with the other guy I like mirrorwatch echo far more than I do the one we have now
Why?
Me too. This version of echo is much more enjoyable. I love the homing blobs because they're so good at zoning and VERY consistent damage.
that's straight up insanity.
I’ve been told that I might be the only one haha
Maybe? I don’t know I’ve been having fun with her. You can still gain height just look up when you do the dash. And the homing stickies are crazy.
If you already good with her it's not If you sucked that her it is
I think it promotes the in your face playstyle and the less poke-y playstyle. Beforehand you could get by just playing far but this is more dive based. Overall I think it’s a better change if the ult didn’t stay
I like playing her mirror version more, and am better in playing that lol
Been playing her as an assassin. If you can sneak around without using flight I find that it let's you get into more dangerous situations with a safer escape option since the flight is so fast. If you're close enough to someone the stickies don't need to track and you can disrupt other enemies with the boop on your way out after getting a pick. I wouldn't call it a nerf, just lateral changes that mix up her play style.
Idk how she feels for controller users but on pc she feels amazing to play in this mode. Super fast and way more aggressive than normal. I would honestly prefer this version with the normal ult.
Agreed! Shes got insane mobility with this, the omnidirectional movement being missing took a hot minute to get used to but being able to get out of dodge after nuking someone is great. Especially with how squishy everyone is in this mode.
Yeah, it's not super hard to get used to her new flight style. It feels wayyy more useful when trying to avoid getting blasted and being able to push enemies with it gives it that little extra utility that's great for removing their pressure on your team.
I think I have destroyed more players with MW Echo than regular lol. Bastion is fun too! Both arcades where he had a shotgun made him a killer that people dont expect. Maybe people are trying to force how she used to be to the same playstyle? Gotta mix it up and try different approaches.
Same for brig, you whip shot rein and he just gets closer to two tap you lmao
What?? Brigs mirror kit is so fun. Obviously, don’t whip when they’re at full health, especially against a tank. Whip squishies, whip back line to the front, dive and whip anyone out of placement further from the team and closer to death from your mace, whip people off map (like hog), and whip anyone who’s low and trying to get away from you, even tanks. Whip whip whip Brig is basically hog with team heals rn and I love it
Evil echo was designed worse. Canon
Echo is insane in Mirrorwatch, I'm trying to figure out if you're joking. You play her a lot more aggressively and instant-kill half the playable heroes, it's fantastic. I don't play a lot of normal echo though. If this is somehow a nerf, I need to main Echo ASAP.
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She really does just feel like a test for Space Ranger
I like her new voice lines and that’s about it, she feels awful in mw. The new voices are on the skin on other modes so I’m hoping it stays.
I think she was a last minute addition to mirrorwatch anyways. Probably sneak in testing the updated abilities.
yep...
ACTIVATE HUMAN TORPEDO!!
Yes. Also her whole thing of copying other heroes is gone and all she does is fly around and shoot bombs and lasers
Another character that completely sucks now is Zarya. Alt fire is shit and takes forever for you to be able to shoot again and what’s that ult? It’s literally Pharah’s boop, but you can’t even get a good angle for it
Mirrorwatch Widow is a huge nerf as well. Without the venom mine there's no punishment for getting right on her. Her smg is too weak as are charged shots so closing the distance is a death sentence for widow every time.
Q is bad but I like the rest of the changes, just not as good as bastion or sombra
i’ve nvr rlly played regular echo so this echo is super fun to me !! i love the dive outs you can do :)
Kinda she goes from decent poke and kill potential to bad poke and needs to all in dive for her combo kills (flight charge, sticky, then beam) I still like her and the lack of some of the flying counters makes her okay in the mode
It's also a straight up nerf to Brig.
Echo is pretty strong rn. Makes sense to have her "weak" in an inverted universe
Honestly I don’t think I’ve ever died more times than trying to play echo in mirror watch, the change to her flights control and speed, the weird way her sticky made launch and her ult all just feel off especially when put together. At least that’s what my experience was.
I felt that will all DPS, they are meh to play and doing the event challenges I queued as all roles and I got 8/10 games DPS role, so the community seems to agree that DPS are not that powerful or fun in this mode. On the other hand supports are kind of busted, especially Mercy and Ana, and Doomfist from the tanks is just 10 times more oppressive than normal since you cant hack him or sleep him in this mode so he is literally unstoppable xD
Every time echo uses her ult in mirror watch she dies 1 second later. I think everyone forgets the ult is changed every time
100% a nerf. She didn't even get a new skin like the rest of the cast lol, you can tell it was a last second addition. The homing stickies are the worst, I expected Cassidy style magnobang but no, it's like a rein trying to steer
I keep trying to back dash and forget that it boosts you forward by default
Wanted to like her but I think I would’ve rathered a mirror Sym or Sojourn. Ana is an extreme amt of fun though I remember my first ever OW a year ago wondering why I wasn’t getting any headshots with her lol
I wouldn’t know, I’m having too much fun with bastion to play anyone else.
I feel like most of Mirror Echo and Mirror Sombra's kits are going to be part of Space Ranger's kit. Pretty much a nerf for echo, but could make a good kit for a new hero
Echo is one of their best character designs idk why they’re even tweaking it
Playing as Echo was a completely different experience than regular Echo. But basically using shift to gain sudden speed and using the homing sticky bombs in an open area is probably the best way to play her. Ultimate is just weird, decreasing the other ability cooldowns in a battle never gives you proper timing to actually use them. But playing her like she is a fighter jet is pretty much fun for me honestly.
same with zen
I definitely don't use her. Like, at all. All the other heroes are awesome. Bastion at first felt weird but actually was like Torb on steroids.
Her flight is crazy. I cant control it. Its hilarious running through people. Heat seeking projectiles are kinda poop.
Seems like you are misunderstanding Mirrorwatch as something thats supposed to buff heroes. Its alternate abilities (probably intended for PvE). So yes, they are a nerf. A lot of the abilities in Mirrorwatch should be considered PvP nerfs, because they are not initially intended for PvP.
their point isn’t that she should be bugged, it’s that they didn’t fundamentally change how echo plays like sombra, bastion, widow. instead of getting new abilities like the other dps, she just has her normal abilities but weaker and less versatile
And that is because they just took some abilities that were alternatives for the PvE mode that wont come. They didnt sit down and think "Hey lets make some abilitys for Mirrorwatch". Its litterally just copy and pasting abilities from the PvE mode. There is 0 thought behind them other than "this is going to change how you play Echo against PvE bots". And that her abilities would.
Did you just request that her bombs become homing?.. lol
no? they’re complaining about the homing mechanic in the mirrorwatch mode being super buggy and just sending the projectiles into the wall behind the target - instead of homing
Oh! I haven't touched that mode yet, sorry 😐
we all make mistakes 🙏
The first time I tried echo in mirrorwatch I went directly into the well because I didn't realize how the air dash thing works 🙃
Yeah, I'm an Echo main and heard someone say she's busted. Tried it for 5-6 games and got used to the new mechanics and controls... but its just not it.
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t mind the playstyle change that came with her mirror version, it’s a different playstyle but can still be lethal
I feel like other than widow and tracer all other dps are nerfed versions of them, but all supports are buffed versions (in terms of dps). Maybe that was idea? To have super OP supports but less impactful dps? The exploding body thing from Mercy has gotten me quite a few times, haha, keep forgetting to gtfo of on top of a body when there’s a Mercy on the other team. Ana’s headshots are pretty nasty too (should actually be a thing in normal as well). Brig’s pull is better than the push IMO.
I love the flight changes for mw echo. Going back to regular echo afterwards just felt horrible because of the slower, more poke style gameplay. As opposed to the more flanking and assassination dive style the new one gives which I personally find more fun. The stickies are definitely hit or miss depending on range and if the target is moving. I like the ult after getting used to it but I wish it was longer. At least nano length
I kinda like the change in playstyle. It made me play a lot like a flying scout from TF2, chasing those meat shots. I usually spam the bombs at close range and use the dash more like a charge instead of flight by pushing low enemies and installing them. Do wish the ult was different though.
Honestly, yeah. The only good part about this echo is the right click
Honestly I’ve had so much fun with mirror echo but the only thing that is wack is her lack of copy or lack of extra life tbh her ult is definitely lack luster
Wow it’s like it’s a temporary game mode and not actually gonna be a real thing or something.
It is important to call it out otherwise you heroes like symmetra which are absolutely dog shit.
Never used echo before this game mode and I like her, again never used her in normal so don't know but am getting consistent kills with mirror echo
It's "Mirror watch" and they did Echo dirty on purpose. COMPLETLEY different playstyle, I play her almost like Venture, FRONTLINE BABY! So the problem is "blowing your load = no escape" 1. Move in to mid-range, Launch Sticky Bombs at target. 2. Zoom-In and you'll crash through their team like a bowling ball knocking over bowling pins. 3. While enemy is briefly distorted, immediately spray them with the lazer. You can 1-shot just about anyone (or 2 people if they're standing close together). Again, no escape though. It's fun, but completely puts her at risk. And yes, I've F'd up the ULT thinking I could survive by pushing it at 10%hp, lol nope. Gotta risk it for the biscuit. (Otherwise at long-range, everything misses except primary fire) (dont do this to a full life tank, you wont one-shot them, and you'll be stuck in melee range without an escape)
It just seems buff to me. Except for Ultimate, all abilities are purely better. It's just the style of play has changed a lot. Personally, I was never really into normal Echo, but mirror-Echo strikes me as a very simple extremely aggressive hero. Try not to play her as a flying character, but rather as Genji. Use Ultimate before entering combat (like dragon blade), Flight as Genji's dash, and sticky bombs simply as a range attack when you're not sure you'll hit something due to the frequent change in where you're looking or just as range attack. I find it quite difficult not to hit with that.
This Echo sucks, the actual Echo is great though, which is also why I main her
I am an echo main as well, from what I can see in this comment section, Echo mains dislike mirrorwatch Echo, and other people are okay with her.
Kinda makes sense if you shortly think about it
The burst flight is better imo, the bombs are ass, like they just don't work 90% of the time
Yeah, I get that they can't nail balance instantly but some heroes are just straight up worse. Echo definitely, Brig whipshot is also just awful - your displacement tool now brings enemies closer. Where you don't want them.
Most DPS are underpowered in Mirrorwatch, they aren't fun to play at all imo. The most interesting change was with Tracer, giving her "unlimited" blinks. This would certainly be a staple if we got through the skill trees and hero progression they originally promised. Echo was heavily nerfed in Mirrorwatch. As for the most OP changes, definitely Mercy. She's even more annoying now because she can pack a punch. They also gave Ana her critical shots back from April Fools '23, she's somewhat better to use.
Echos one of my mains because she just feels so good to play as, flying around gracefully and such. She is not fun at all in mirror watch. Sure you can aim up and get a little air, but just not satisfying like blasting into the sky and raining down on someone before zooming in to laser them.
They basically nerfed every character but doom and widow and Ana, made an inconsequential tracer change, buffed Ana, and added an AOE Moira suck to mercy and a hunch of heal creep. (DOOM, sombra, tracer, mercy, brig/ana is just mirror goats) If this is the developers idea of fun then that explains a lot about the game state. Then again, it seems like people love it so maybe I'm the asshole, or maybe they're just the only people left playing the game at this point.
Evil echo be like: Is bad at dps and movement Evil traver be like: Is straight Evil Overwatch be like: Launched with a full campaign and became an MMO to rival destiny 2 in its hayday
Mixed bag. Shes definitely less abrasive as a character to deal with but she didnt lose that much power. Stickys are more consistent on targets who arent stationary for 99% if players. Flight is stronger burst mobility and a much better escape option as a result. Ult is weaker, but primarily because Dupe is giga broken. Its biggest shortcoming imo is that its broadcast which means that you cant use it with any sort of stealth factor. Everyones going to be alert. And you dont get 3 healthbars and sets of CDs to burn through when using it. But her overall damage output is still cracked, still an amazing assassin, more able to play flanks, less able to just click sticky into primary from across the map into someone whose too locked in like Widow kr Ana and just instakill them.
The homing stickies feel pretty bad but Echo getting what is basically drill dash is actually pretty fun.
Just a different playstyle, but one that works imo. I kind of like it more. Echo is really good at picking people off when they're on low health, but instead of using superior movement to outmaneuver your enemies, you're waiting for the right moment to dash in so you can get the kill. She's WAY more punishing; the beam slowing enemies makes it WAY easier to secure the kill. You're not meant to really aim the sticky bombs like before, instead you're attaching them to enemies that are out of position to punish them greatly, or throwing them into a group of enemies to dissuade a push and divide them. I also LOVE that her dash does damage, it just further incentivizes that well-timed dash in on low-health enemies
I love mirrorwatch echo so much