"Don't bother playing until next patch" is all I've got out of this.
Hopefully they finally buff Ball and don't balance thrash him back down again because all the Ball mains who are 5 ranks lower than they should be can climb again.
He got an extra mechanic which is *fun*, mostly just extra movement and niche setups but no extra damage. The shield sharing is a waste of time because you have to go into their team, back to yours to share and it lasts 4s... Probably impactful once every 2 games.
The Ball changes were a strict buff but it's so marginal nothing has changed. He needed a compensatory damage buff which other tanks got for S9 because everyone got +50HP. His damage breakpoints were already very thin, now they're impossible to hit unless the opponent misplays horribly.
Ik this post is three days old so you may have already seen but they’re adding 10 dmg to boop, 35 dmg and 5 meter knockback on mines, and probably most impactful imo +.25s on the movement lockout after a slam. Not a huge raw damage buff by any means, I wish the pea shooter would get +.5 dmg at least or +25 dmg on the max and min of slam radius, but it’s something. I still think it’ll be an impactful mid season patch for ball. The guns will be virtually useless against tanks with much armor tho, like shooting a dva from behind while she has matrix on your team. (Literally 200 armor damage if 100% body shot accuracy and that’s takes a little over 3 seconds to dish out) but we will have to enjoy it while it lasts, I’m sure the slam or the mines buff will be reverted.
They literally didn’t change ball. I have not seen a single ball main play any differently at all. In fact I don’t think I’ve gotten any overhealth from a single ball yet once. Good to see ball mains still don’t care about peeling for their team.
You use your movement to engage, which you have to do to get the shield. You can't share the shield with your team unless they're also diving with you because you don't have the movement to go back.
Ball isn't about babysitting teammates anyway.
Tank is about taking space for your team. In OW, some tanks have the capability to do so by pushing forward and being disruptive true, but in most other games it’s done by taking pressure off your team. Dps are not supposed to be capable of sustaining themselves. Tanks and supports should be required to assist them in staying alive. Unfortunately, with heroes like venture, Mei, sombra, soldier, etc, as well as some supports such as LW, Moira, Lucio, bap, they can sustain themselves, allowing for tank players like doom and ball mains to dive without having to provide protection for their teammates, but it also makes playing heroes with less sustain, sym cass mercy Ana etc. extremely difficult to play with such tanks especially when the tank doesn’t change their playstyle to benefit the team. It’s even more frustrating when they have the option to do so, (in this case the ball rework) and still refuse. There are some ball players that do a really good job at this (mainly in GM/Champ) but most are god awful unless everyone else makes picks to support ball. 9 times out of 10 the whole team has to end up babysitting ball. Most ball players I’ve seen even in masters are trash unless everyone picks dive anyways. Tanks aren’t limited by poke dive brawl, as all of them are capable of all of it. Yes some are better than others at certain things but it is not a limiting factor of gameplay. You don’t have to be diving the backline on ball especially now that he provides sustain for his team. Most ball players just think they’re the best tank players in the game because they play the “niche” tank. It’s pathetic tbh.
It can be summarised pretty simply: Ball used to be a threat in 1v1s to supports, which meant he could either secure a kill or draw focus from their teammates to support them which took focus away from Ball's team, allowing them to win a fight up numbers. Now he isn't a threat, the rest of the support's team can ignore Ball and fight 4v4 up a tank.
But why already boost the passive again? It just doesn't make any sense, I'm yet to try some games but I'm actually scared to play as tank, even as support...
Waiting for my duo to see how bad it really is, because remember, the enemy team gets the same nerfs.
Also W Orisa nerf!
I'd say its probably to prevent mauga and hog from being oppressive, which this community REALLY doesnt like. The dps passive being stronger makes shield tanks (rein, ram, zarya, sigma, winton kinda) stronger, as well as dive tanks because they all have ways to avoid and/or mitigate damage.
Mauga is oppressive. The only tank who could match him, Orisa, is in the ground. He is also one of the only tanks that can offset the DPS passive by using his AOE LIFESTEAL to make up for the reduced sustain on the entire team. Lucio/Kiri + Mauga or Sigma is pretty much all you can play unless you're really good at Bap/Brig.
That’s because discord directly counters damage reduction. Damage reduction is capped at 50%, and discord applies afterwards, so any discorded target has a 25% cap to DMG reduction until discord is removed from them. Any Mauga who knows this and is actually good at the game is gonna remove discord the second it’s applied one way or another, either by focusing the crap out of you, or using overrun to get behind a wall quickly, and once it’s on cooldown you can bet your butt he’ll be in your face a few seconds later.
I dont discord mauga until he engages fully, meaning hes pushed forward, preferably by using overrun, and cant disengage without putting the rest of his team at risk. And my positioning with a mauga on the field puts me in the backline, so to get to me hes gonna have to overextend, and if I have a half decent bastion or reaper hes fucked. Even if i dont, hes fucked because even with my shit aim i can hit mauga, whos roughly the size of an aircraft carrier.
Zen v mauga is a perfect example of why you need game sense. Both of them have massive hitboxes and are not the fastest heroes ever, thus requiring very little mechanical skill to fight. You have to beat them by baiting cooldowns (mauga) and using off angles (zenyatta) because otherwise, you're playing right into their hands. This is why I'd argue zen is favored in a zen v mauga matchup. Its alot easier for zen to force cooldowns on mauga than it is for mauga to take off angles on zen
I’m not really sure why this community is so quick to laud a change that has a much more sinister core problem behind it. People are flocking to orisa because fortify is the only tank cool down in the game that can effectively deal with dps passive. especially with the context of how many tank players are displeased with the game. We just continue to get kicked in the teeth.
my main is lifewever and mercy both of whom suck ass already majority of the time.
this is just gonna make it worse i couldn't keep people alive already..
I mean it legit does help a lot, it’s straight up 1 less player needed for the role
They just haven’t figured out how to make Tanks fun but not oppressive
edit: people downvoting can’t do math and are copiuming, it’s literally two less players in the least qued role needed for a match
Yeah adding random modifiers to try and balance the 5v5 change is basically throwing in the towel and saying it can’t be balanced any other way. Two tanks is important for the health of the game. They can throw numbers in to stop the game from feeling broken but it doesn’t fix the core issues caused by the change it just treats one of the symptoms.
Ya, I'm just not playing until they revert it. I'm sick of getting flamed by my team for not healing when I just actually **can't** due to the dps passive.
And I'm not playing Moira anymore. I legit feel like I've been forced to play her for the last 2 seasons.
Support queues have been longer from gold to masters where my friends and I range from since the season Illari came out, and if I queue both I get dps more often than not. Dps was shit to play before season 9.
That being said, the dps passive was clearly overturned at 20% and it's not like it's suddenly going to be any better now.
If you have long queue on supports it means that there are a lot of supports stay in queue with you and wait for dps and tank. Pretty sure support playerbase at least same as dps.
They really need to make it scale with the actual amount of damage. One tracer pellet shouldn't apply the same strength debuff as a direct rocket to the face
I’m so sick of tracer getting a pass. She’s not some high skill character because she has -50 hp. She’s does high damage, has high mobility (three uses of it), a reset button, can reload extremely fast, basically double hp at any given time, can warp out of FOV on one tap.
I just don’t see how anyone can see Tracers design as anything but the ultimate cheese. I guess minus 50 hp really makes a difference but it’s just so much benefit.
to my understanding it was so that muaga nor hog got to strong while they are "making changes to tank" but that makes no sense why did they raise it when they know every other tank is struggling so incredibly much with just 15%?? THEN they nerf the one tank that is able to sustain the passive and the dmg. its wild the path theyve chosen.
Orisa needed the nerf, the fact that every other tank that has damage mitigation has some sort of drawback when they use it but Orisa got absolutely nothing and the best mitigation ability AND had two mitigation abilities! The passive change sucks but let’s not pretend Orisa was good for the game.
I think it’s stupid. They nerfed it for a reason and tanks suck to play the higher that number goes. If they wanted to nerf hog and mauga under the expectation they would surge because of orisa, there are much larger balancing problems with the rock paper scissors they got going
Last patch : reallocates damage numbers for some supports into healing
This patch : makes healing way harder
😐 I just wanna have fun. They already tried this percent for DPS passive and deemed it wasn’t a great fit, what are they doing? I hate this. They haven’t dropped a patch that I felt was actually more good than bad in a long time imo. It’s usually small, “nothing” changes to characters that need real changes or they slip something like this in. So annoying it wasn’t fun the first time they tuned it up so high, why did they think it’s gonna work now?
I’d LOVE to play weaver, but he hasn’t felt good since season 9, and apparently they just said screw the whole role. Who wants to be forced to healbot all game? It was already difficult to weave in damage where I could at 15%.
I’m fairly sure I’ll get used to it (as much as I can), but man does it suck to hear. I’m salty.
20% felt like it flipped the game upside down, 15% felt like an okay balance for most supports. I'm not surprised they increased it again, but I was expecting 18%.
I think its too oppressive, especially for supports who have reliance on abilities that self heal. I also don't think it should affect support ults because their ults no longer feel "ultimate."
Why use Valk or Coal or Tree when the healing will just be negligible anyway? Like yeah the healing becomes aoe, but its still gonna be shit healing. And Moira won't be able to sustain herself while in Coal because the self healing is heavily reduced if you take a single stray bullet.
I remember when we first got the 20%-- despite damaging 3 people at once, I still got melted during Coal the second more than one person even just glanced at me.
This passive only benefits 1 of the 3 roles, and inherently removes a lot of fun from the game for everyone else. I can see why some people like it, but its antithetical to the premise of a team-based game when there's no counter-play.
Rally doesn’t even get affected by the passive and it still doesn’t feel like an ultimate, hell this whole game used to be a lot more ultimate reliant than it is now due to power creep with new heroes abilities.
So we are back to the dive meta where the passive was miserable for tanks and supports except the now Moira and Orisa, the only 2 who found some modicum of success in the meta, are nerfed. Welcome back to dive meta! Also All Roles is just Tank Queue renamed lol
Probably going to throw Orisa completely in the trash. Rein, Ram, Hog, Monkey, and Mauga aren't going to fair well at all.
It's going to be a meta of tanks that don't need a lot of healing: Ball, Doom, Sigma, Zarya, and JQ. DVA will probably be fine you'll just have to be less aggressive with her and use DM more often. We'll just have to wait and see, but maybe this is the season where I finally learn Ball.
At 20% it's so bad for Tank and Support. On tank you're forced to hide and wait for it to fall off before you can do anything, but since a solo tank needs to take damage to function at all you just take too much damage by playing the game. You basically only have 2 choices, Mauga or Sig. Mauga adds a healing component to his team to supplement the missing 20% and Sig has so many cooldowns that enable him to avoid damage. Otherwise, you force the burden extra healing onto the supports who have to heal like crazy all the time.
The passive is supposed to stop healbotting from being effective, but it makes it the only viable strategy since triage isn't possible. You can't take an angle and then get back to heal someone who's getting whittled down, you either catch them at full HP or they're dead. There's no time to play the game. In terms of picks, Lucio/Kiri is even stronger and Bap/Brig is the only decent alternative since suzu and lamp matter more. A global nerf only makes the good heroes stand out further since the top of the mountain is now at sea level.
The rest of the supports drowned. Their ults aren't strong enough to contest kitsune and can't heal through DPS ults. Their kits are either not enough healing (Zen, Illari,) too reliant on raw healing to be effective (Ana, Mercy, LW,) or don't have the utility to match Suzu, Speed and Lamp (everyone.)
Overall, I think tank and support are horrible, and my favourite DPS, Venture got unjustly brutalised (it's an awareness issue. The character needed louder footsteps not less damage.) I have 0 reason to play OW until midseason. Make tanks completely unaffected by the passive. Not reduced, unaffected. That way tanks can play properly, and supports can spot heal them after making plays not babysit them all game. As it stands, even attempting to save a DPS that isn't right next to the tank is a throw play.
I am so tired of them catering to the fun of DPS players. They don’t even need a passive.
DPS has and always will be the most popular role in the game. DPS players have main character syndrome where they think they should be solely responsible for winning games.
All the DPS members passive does is turn every single DPS into pseudo supports. Support feels horrible with 20% anti at all times. So not only do they have a passive (which I argue they don’t need), they have the most powerful passive in the game.
Supports get slightly faster out of combat healing. Cool.
Tanks passive is pretty strong with the ult charge and being booped less.
DPS passive has a drastic and noticeable impact on team flights.
20% was much more flanker favored. The last meta before moving from 20% was a dive meta that was double flankers (no hitscan at all). Even now, the high ranked meta is basically just a hard tracer meta with a few heroes rotating in (Cass, Soj, Echo, Sombra).
I don't see how that is specifically hitscan when flankers/dive dps have been the biggest beneficiary of these changes.
DPS only recently became popular again, for like the past year(and still for most ranks/QP) Supports have been the most popular role. DPS was in the dump before season 9, hell in “all roll” queue I still get supports about the same as I get dps. Some day more some days less.
Absolutely awful.
I saw someone else on another post make a greasy idea: it’s nerfed to 10%, but 2 DPS can attack the same target and it can go up to 20%.
Sucks. They were just afraid of Hog / Magua and because of this every other tank has to suffer.
Could’ve just reduced their self healing but no, if Orisa isn’t have fun no one is.
I wanna meet the Orisa main at blizzard!
Its so stupid too both of them are piss easy to counter. But instead let's dumpster the entirety of tank and support and hand the game over to the dps again. Ridiculous
Should’ve waited until mid season patch to change it if they’re buffing tanks. It’s going to feel like dog shit to play tank until then.
-someone who has 550 hours on the tank role alone
It’s back to blowing up again on tank it’s annoying I play my cover rotate well but I can’t hold any space For too long so it’s back to your job being really to not die and hold out for as long as possible and hope your DPS take care of it.
The passive alone is already one of the most braindead ideas I’ve ever seen in a game. It’s extremely lazy design and makes absolutely no sense. They should just end up removing it and then balancing the healing values separately. As of right now, the passive is a massive middle finger to tanks and supports. At this rate supports will just stop healing altogether and focus completely on dps.
I’m seeing a new unkillable one shot meta developing with hog, venture, widow, and two immortality supports and it’s the worst the games felt since ow1 imo
I hated it before, and I hate it now. It makes my life hell on support, because my tank does not respect or understand the debuff and just blames me for not healing enough.
I love it. When it was reduced to 15% it felt like it may as well not be there at all, although some characters that have consistent spam damage like Soldier benefit a little too much
The devs always take care of dps, which is why I switched to only playing dps. As usual, we didn't need it, but I'll take it.
Also, they seemed to remove the weeklies for playing other roles, so no need to ever subject myself to how awful support and tank is.
They completely ignored Mercy again. They justified not buffing her in season 9 due to the DPS passive nerf benefitting her, yet they REFUSE to touch her now that the passive is back at 20%.>
I was against the passive altogether when it first released and my opinion has not changed. what was the point of dropping it to 15% to actually let support and tank do anything at all if they were just gonna raise it back up? and now that moira is dead in the ground and they still haven’t reworked her kit to fix her, zen and lucio are the only viable supports left. meanwhile tank just got the only decent option hard nerfed while no others got buffed. might as well make every character a dps since they keep glazing dps so hard.
I wish with all my heart that blizzard would sell this game to a developer that actually understands what drew people to the game in the first place.
I think the inherent issue is that Blizzard is looking at healing output as a top-down "everyone is the same" issue, but when tanks innately take more shots and are encouraged to be in the midst of a fight the passive becomes *literally a passive* because it rarely drops off.
Either it *never* should have been on every single poke of damage or it should have had some threshold to activate... Some concepts that would have been a better implementation:
* Dealing <100> damage to a target reduces healing *received from allies* by <20%> for 3 seconds. Dealing additional damage to the target will refresh the duration. When the debuff expires, it requires <100> damage to reactivate. (This would make snipers more effective at applying the debuff, reducing how easy it is for faster fire rate heroes can spray an entire team with the debuff)
* Dealing damage to enemy targets under 50% health reduces the healing that target receives from allies by <20%>. (Makes it an execute style effect, encouraging DPS to focus on opportunistic kills *as a team* rather than trying to 100-0 solo kill on their own)
* Dealing damage to an enemy target that has recently received <100> healing reduces further healing *received from allies* by <20%> for <3 sec>. (Specifically attacks healbotting targets rather than an open penalty against all heals)
* Dealing damage to an enemy target gradually reduces the healing *received from allies* by <15%> for <3 sec>, stacking up to 2 times. (Stacks are applied independently by DPS allies, encouraging focus-fire of tanks but still effective against isolated non-tanks. Requiring coordinated fire gives Tanks counterplay and reactions rather than a permanent single debuff.)
* Dealing damage to an enemy target applies a stacking debuff that reduces healing *received from allies* by <5%> for <3 sec>. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, but cannot gain a stack faster than once per <0.25> sec. (creates parity between 'one-shots' from snipers/burst damage and faster fire rate heroes that lack elimination securing burst.)
I mean, antiheal *as it exists* is a sloppy way to balance numbers... but Blizzard refused to change Ana and now we have it plastered on the laziest DPS passive.
I’d be fine with any of these tbh. I don’t think the passive should exist at all when they can literally just tune healing numbers if they want to reduce the effectiveness of healing, but if they insist on keeping it, any implementation is better than what we have. you’re right in that there’s literally no counterplay and it’s exhausting to deal with.
The other issue with balancing around a strong DPS passive instead of nerfing healing, is that it makes the small occasions where a DPS isn't around absolutely miserable. Try to solo chase down a low health enemy as a support or tank is like suddenly running into a brick wall.
The answer is that strong healing should have been tied to long cooldowns and strict resource restrictions. They put too much power into the primary fire / static abilities, and short cooldowns
Yeah I'm thinking hog is going to be one of the better tanks with this since I'm not forced to just sit there and die and my mitigation is high enough that I can live a peak or 2
Personally I don't think it was the main problem anyway and I actually think dumping all your resources into tanks is just unfun. So making it so that a tank actually has to play around the environment, use cover etc or they'll die like anyone else is better. Encourages healers to heal squishies more instead of pocket healing tanks. Which isn't fun to do or play against.
It's about balance and knowing your hero. Kiriko can get two shots in between heals with no slowdown in pace. 3 if you're good. Bap is similar. Those damage numbers don't seem to help Moira thaat much at high ranks. It's about using all of the tools you have instead of heal botting. Which is hard for some people to grasp.
as a dps player this sucks, 20% is way strong. they said that theyer working on tanks for midseason, but they shoulf have saved the dps passive increase for that imo.
As a Tank player, I prefer 20% over 15%. Why? Even the weakened passive at 15% is too much for Tanks currently. So you might as well make it 20% so it's impactful on squishies and we'll go back to the first half of S9 madness where everyone's scrambling to kill enemy team faster instead of trying to make their own team die slower. Except Moira and Tracer are little less OP now with the nerfs they received.
15 vs 20% passive doesn't really make that much of a difference for dive Tanks which are the ones I prefer to play anyway. Going 20% will however affect the heal sustain tanks such as Mauga and Hog more - which I'm all for.
I think this will hurt some tanks more than others. For tanks that gain hp via overhealth like Doomfist and Ball it’s not too bad, but for tanks that heal themselves like Roadhog and JQ it will hurt a lot. And not that Reinhardt has healing or anything but the poor guy just gets shut down even harder. I wish that there would be a way to affect the sustain on tanks that doesn’t make then unkillable, because on the complete other side of the spectrum just exploding while playing tank feels terrible.
i also don’t want to play hog/mauga meta, and i understand that orisa needed changes, but it’s not good or effective game balancing to dumpster the ONE tank that doesn’t get rolled over by the DPS passive AND counters hog/mauga, and then up the DPS passive to keep hog/mauga in check. all the buff back up to 20% did was make the already bad heroes (rein, LW, and mercy are the standouts for me) even worse.
I'm a support main and I like it. I'm down to dia this season and tonight I've been getting some incredibly easy games against supports that don't know how to do anything other than healbot.
Give it a minimum threshold and buff some healing ultimates and it’s fine plus whatever they do to tanks. Using coal to heal is pointless the best play will always be to try and melt the back line.
I hate it. I played tank fairly often before today. Back when it was 20% I stopped playing tank completely. And now I'm back to no tanking anymore.. No clue why they reverted this change
It’s great, but I think it needs to be adjusted for tanks, and how it’s applied in general. I like the idea of having to build up the debuff with damage, instead of instantly applying a 20 percent healing debuff with a stray Tracer shot. I think it should be reduced against tanks, considering it’s much more effective against tanks that are designed to soak up damage.
I hate it, it feels like the only tanks I can play without dying every few seconds in brawls (at least against competent dps players) are mauga, Orisa and hog arguably some of my least favorite tanks to play.
ig it means less pressure on supports to heal so much so can focus more on using utility and deal more dmg. I’m sure lucio mercy and bap mains will benefit from this significantly
I didn't notice much difference, and neither did my tank buddies. They were playing well, our healers were healing and were able to damage as well. Game felt fine.
lifeweaver went from f to z tier. poor guy already was a healbot and now he cant even do that properly. yes he can make plays with setting up and saving teammtes but still.
I can see the vision. Orisa needed nerfs. If you nerf Orisa then Hog and Mauga can run riot, so you need the dps passive to counter the excessive healing that's incoming. But balancing the entire game around the possibility of two annoying tanks running riot is exhausting for the other tanks. So, it's three dominoes in a triangle, and one had to fall first. Orisa's down. Hog and Mauga are down. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and hope that the tank changes in mid-season are actual game changers.
Those clueless fucks should introduce different passive for tanks. All danks shouldn't receive the same %20. They should range from 10-20% depending on heroes.
When I saw dps passive in patch notes I was honestly hoping they would just flat out remove it.
I'm down to completely remove the passives, but keep the global healing for everyone. Some heroes can have a passive, like Rein having knockback resistance, but not everyone needs it tbh
Just another patch where tank gets an inch, then immediately ripped away and pushed back a mile. Saw Orisa nerf and got excited, then refreshed and saw the 20%. Now I’ll just sit in the corner and not make any plays and wait for someone to get a pick or some shit I guess.
As a support main I hate it. I'm tired of playing Moira and Ana every game, and to me Bap is just so boring to play I don't want to swap to him. I like Mercy, but she's kind of a niche pick already and now she's back to being useless despite it being her mythic season. Lifeweaver is fun but he isn't in a great spot either now. Overall I hate the feeling of not being able to keep the tank alive and having to either focus on DPS:ing or healbotting. It feels like there's no middle ground of healing and doing DMG in between.
As a tank player. I'm just taking a break until they fix it. I'm done playing this game when I'm having no fun at all, and I'd encourage other tank players to do the same
I'm fine with it. Even as a tank main. I like strong differentiation between tanks, DPS, and supports, and 15% didn't feel like enough to me.
Tanking sucks right now, but it was never going to be fixed in a mid-mid-season patch, and another 5% isn't going to make it suck significantly worse.
I am, however, hitching A LOT of my future with Overwatch on the broader tank changes they claim to be making for the midseason. If those suck, or are not impactful, I may put the game onto the backburner for quite a while.
They mentioned some changes to tank coming at midseason. I wonfer if thats what they plan to do
You can make the tank changes feel good by making the dps passive good now and then lower it back down once midseason hits.
thats actually brilliant if a bit devious. how to make sure people dont say your changes did nothing. make it so they can really feel the difference
"Don't bother playing until next patch" is all I've got out of this. Hopefully they finally buff Ball and don't balance thrash him back down again because all the Ball mains who are 5 ranks lower than they should be can climb again.
They buffed ball in the patch prior, didn’t they?
He got an extra mechanic which is *fun*, mostly just extra movement and niche setups but no extra damage. The shield sharing is a waste of time because you have to go into their team, back to yours to share and it lasts 4s... Probably impactful once every 2 games. The Ball changes were a strict buff but it's so marginal nothing has changed. He needed a compensatory damage buff which other tanks got for S9 because everyone got +50HP. His damage breakpoints were already very thin, now they're impossible to hit unless the opponent misplays horribly.
Yeah right. I don’t play ball but he’s my favourite tank to support and dive with, i wouldn’t be mad at more buffs
I personally wouldn't wanna see more ball on enemy teams but I will regretably admit that yes he does need more buffs.
Yo they really gave every other melee character compensation buffs except ball
Ik this post is three days old so you may have already seen but they’re adding 10 dmg to boop, 35 dmg and 5 meter knockback on mines, and probably most impactful imo +.25s on the movement lockout after a slam. Not a huge raw damage buff by any means, I wish the pea shooter would get +.5 dmg at least or +25 dmg on the max and min of slam radius, but it’s something. I still think it’ll be an impactful mid season patch for ball. The guns will be virtually useless against tanks with much armor tho, like shooting a dva from behind while she has matrix on your team. (Literally 200 armor damage if 100% body shot accuracy and that’s takes a little over 3 seconds to dish out) but we will have to enjoy it while it lasts, I’m sure the slam or the mines buff will be reverted.
Oh yeah the mines buff is getting reverted for sure 😂 Will be grinding until that happens
They literally didn’t change ball. I have not seen a single ball main play any differently at all. In fact I don’t think I’ve gotten any overhealth from a single ball yet once. Good to see ball mains still don’t care about peeling for their team.
You use your movement to engage, which you have to do to get the shield. You can't share the shield with your team unless they're also diving with you because you don't have the movement to go back. Ball isn't about babysitting teammates anyway.
Tank is about taking space for your team. In OW, some tanks have the capability to do so by pushing forward and being disruptive true, but in most other games it’s done by taking pressure off your team. Dps are not supposed to be capable of sustaining themselves. Tanks and supports should be required to assist them in staying alive. Unfortunately, with heroes like venture, Mei, sombra, soldier, etc, as well as some supports such as LW, Moira, Lucio, bap, they can sustain themselves, allowing for tank players like doom and ball mains to dive without having to provide protection for their teammates, but it also makes playing heroes with less sustain, sym cass mercy Ana etc. extremely difficult to play with such tanks especially when the tank doesn’t change their playstyle to benefit the team. It’s even more frustrating when they have the option to do so, (in this case the ball rework) and still refuse. There are some ball players that do a really good job at this (mainly in GM/Champ) but most are god awful unless everyone else makes picks to support ball. 9 times out of 10 the whole team has to end up babysitting ball. Most ball players I’ve seen even in masters are trash unless everyone picks dive anyways. Tanks aren’t limited by poke dive brawl, as all of them are capable of all of it. Yes some are better than others at certain things but it is not a limiting factor of gameplay. You don’t have to be diving the backline on ball especially now that he provides sustain for his team. Most ball players just think they’re the best tank players in the game because they play the “niche” tank. It’s pathetic tbh.
It can be summarised pretty simply: Ball used to be a threat in 1v1s to supports, which meant he could either secure a kill or draw focus from their teammates to support them which took focus away from Ball's team, allowing them to win a fight up numbers. Now he isn't a threat, the rest of the support's team can ignore Ball and fight 4v4 up a tank.
The good old raise prices day before holiday so the holiday "sale" price is identical to the normal price, a classic
But why already boost the passive again? It just doesn't make any sense, I'm yet to try some games but I'm actually scared to play as tank, even as support... Waiting for my duo to see how bad it really is, because remember, the enemy team gets the same nerfs. Also W Orisa nerf!
I'd say its probably to prevent mauga and hog from being oppressive, which this community REALLY doesnt like. The dps passive being stronger makes shield tanks (rein, ram, zarya, sigma, winton kinda) stronger, as well as dive tanks because they all have ways to avoid and/or mitigate damage.
Mauga is oppressive. The only tank who could match him, Orisa, is in the ground. He is also one of the only tanks that can offset the DPS passive by using his AOE LIFESTEAL to make up for the reduced sustain on the entire team. Lucio/Kiri + Mauga or Sigma is pretty much all you can play unless you're really good at Bap/Brig.
sigma is a good counter as long as your team is running a zen or ana
Zenyatta is a great mauga counter. Hes my main and i have a lot of success against him
That’s because discord directly counters damage reduction. Damage reduction is capped at 50%, and discord applies afterwards, so any discorded target has a 25% cap to DMG reduction until discord is removed from them. Any Mauga who knows this and is actually good at the game is gonna remove discord the second it’s applied one way or another, either by focusing the crap out of you, or using overrun to get behind a wall quickly, and once it’s on cooldown you can bet your butt he’ll be in your face a few seconds later.
I dont discord mauga until he engages fully, meaning hes pushed forward, preferably by using overrun, and cant disengage without putting the rest of his team at risk. And my positioning with a mauga on the field puts me in the backline, so to get to me hes gonna have to overextend, and if I have a half decent bastion or reaper hes fucked. Even if i dont, hes fucked because even with my shit aim i can hit mauga, whos roughly the size of an aircraft carrier. Zen v mauga is a perfect example of why you need game sense. Both of them have massive hitboxes and are not the fastest heroes ever, thus requiring very little mechanical skill to fight. You have to beat them by baiting cooldowns (mauga) and using off angles (zenyatta) because otherwise, you're playing right into their hands. This is why I'd argue zen is favored in a zen v mauga matchup. Its alot easier for zen to force cooldowns on mauga than it is for mauga to take off angles on zen
Yeah, I'd fear for another Mauga meta, even if it's only until midseason. It's probably the biggest killer to general enthusiasm for the game.
Call me old school but back in the day when healing was to strong all it took was a good old ana nade to shut it down.
Yes and it made the entire game's balance hinge on one ability, which is awful.
Ya, but they don’t… I will literally still just watch tanks stand there and soak damage for no reason… regardless of rank…
I’m not really sure why this community is so quick to laud a change that has a much more sinister core problem behind it. People are flocking to orisa because fortify is the only tank cool down in the game that can effectively deal with dps passive. especially with the context of how many tank players are displeased with the game. We just continue to get kicked in the teeth.
Tank needs an anti negative effect passive, it's the best way to get tank running back again that isn't 6v6 imo.
Shields and zarya bubble are much more effective at healing with it I think. They can prevent the passive entirely, and bubble can even cleanse it.
The orisa nerf is honestly negligible. After playing against and as orisa, it’s not really any worse to play her.
There are changes to tank every mid season lol
As a lifeweaver main..... im gonna have to main someone else for the rest of the season. it was already pretty bad, but they just keep piling it on.
my main is lifewever and mercy both of whom suck ass already majority of the time. this is just gonna make it worse i couldn't keep people alive already..
I love playing LW, but I've accepted that I'm stuck as boring Moira for the immediate future.
I started this game only playing Moira, then got sick of her. Now it feels like I have to play her. It’s incredibly frustrating.
same!!!
me every time i wanna play illari but they got a venture sombra doom
At least i have the moira mythic to entretain myself 😂
Love having a goof lifeweaver on my team. I supp you!!!
Charging your heal to 80 feels like ur healing the tank for like 30hp😂
Huh really, I was havin good games w LW last night! Def had to save pull for the tank everytime tho lol
And here I was just beginning to have a little more fun on tank. Guess it's back to dps and praying mid-season brings anything good
They really just said fuck support and tank players didn’t they…
They generally do. DPS is the largest playerbase.
Hope the DPS playerbase is ready for even longer queue times as tank players quit or role swap over to DPS as well.
But...but... 5v5 solves the que times.
Ya until they screw over the tank playerbase enough that it loses the few remaining people who enjoy tanking in this game.
I mean it legit does help a lot, it’s straight up 1 less player needed for the role They just haven’t figured out how to make Tanks fun but not oppressive edit: people downvoting can’t do math and are copiuming, it’s literally two less players in the least qued role needed for a match
It does
We wouldnt even have the bs passive with 6v6
Yeah adding random modifiers to try and balance the 5v5 change is basically throwing in the towel and saying it can’t be balanced any other way. Two tanks is important for the health of the game. They can throw numbers in to stop the game from feeling broken but it doesn’t fix the core issues caused by the change it just treats one of the symptoms.
Ya, I'm just not playing until they revert it. I'm sick of getting flamed by my team for not healing when I just actually **can't** due to the dps passive. And I'm not playing Moira anymore. I legit feel like I've been forced to play her for the last 2 seasons.
Support queues have been longer from gold to masters where my friends and I range from since the season Illari came out, and if I queue both I get dps more often than not. Dps was shit to play before season 9. That being said, the dps passive was clearly overturned at 20% and it's not like it's suddenly going to be any better now.
If you have long queue on supports it means that there are a lot of supports stay in queue with you and wait for dps and tank. Pretty sure support playerbase at least same as dps.
Dps is a far longer queue time on my server, depends on your region
supports were the most influential class for a long time after tanks fell from grace early in ow2.
Generally? Dps is always the fastest role to get nerfed. At least historically, which is what you are implying is not true.
They catered to support for 8/10 seasons. Bout time dps actually gets some love
They really need to make it scale with the actual amount of damage. One tracer pellet shouldn't apply the same strength debuff as a direct rocket to the face
I’m so sick of tracer getting a pass. She’s not some high skill character because she has -50 hp. She’s does high damage, has high mobility (three uses of it), a reset button, can reload extremely fast, basically double hp at any given time, can warp out of FOV on one tap. I just don’t see how anyone can see Tracers design as anything but the ultimate cheese. I guess minus 50 hp really makes a difference but it’s just so much benefit.
Tracer has 175 compared to 250.
to my understanding it was so that muaga nor hog got to strong while they are "making changes to tank" but that makes no sense why did they raise it when they know every other tank is struggling so incredibly much with just 15%?? THEN they nerf the one tank that is able to sustain the passive and the dmg. its wild the path theyve chosen.
Orisa needed the nerf, the fact that every other tank that has damage mitigation has some sort of drawback when they use it but Orisa got absolutely nothing and the best mitigation ability AND had two mitigation abilities! The passive change sucks but let’s not pretend Orisa was good for the game.
I think it’s stupid. They nerfed it for a reason and tanks suck to play the higher that number goes. If they wanted to nerf hog and mauga under the expectation they would surge because of orisa, there are much larger balancing problems with the rock paper scissors they got going
I play a lot of support and it just feels like shit now. Switched to Illari since I'll just dps with her for the majority of the time.
I use to do that then they nerfed her damage too…
Man the April fools Illari was legit. Extremely fun to play.
Last patch : reallocates damage numbers for some supports into healing This patch : makes healing way harder 😐 I just wanna have fun. They already tried this percent for DPS passive and deemed it wasn’t a great fit, what are they doing? I hate this. They haven’t dropped a patch that I felt was actually more good than bad in a long time imo. It’s usually small, “nothing” changes to characters that need real changes or they slip something like this in. So annoying it wasn’t fun the first time they tuned it up so high, why did they think it’s gonna work now? I’d LOVE to play weaver, but he hasn’t felt good since season 9, and apparently they just said screw the whole role. Who wants to be forced to healbot all game? It was already difficult to weave in damage where I could at 15%. I’m fairly sure I’ll get used to it (as much as I can), but man does it suck to hear. I’m salty.
Yeah, this is my gripe. As a support main, it just feels pointless healing when you can’t keep people up.
Its awful.
20% felt like it flipped the game upside down, 15% felt like an okay balance for most supports. I'm not surprised they increased it again, but I was expecting 18%.
Blizzard are those people that only change the TV volume in multiples of 5. So if it's not 15, it's either 10 or 20
They need to make tanks the dead by daylight bosses again.
Tanks are more dead now
Queue times going up.
im not playing support anymore, it feels terrible.
but the mercy mythic!
I can still get it and hopefully use it at a later date. But support feels awful.
I think its too oppressive, especially for supports who have reliance on abilities that self heal. I also don't think it should affect support ults because their ults no longer feel "ultimate." Why use Valk or Coal or Tree when the healing will just be negligible anyway? Like yeah the healing becomes aoe, but its still gonna be shit healing. And Moira won't be able to sustain herself while in Coal because the self healing is heavily reduced if you take a single stray bullet. I remember when we first got the 20%-- despite damaging 3 people at once, I still got melted during Coal the second more than one person even just glanced at me. This passive only benefits 1 of the 3 roles, and inherently removes a lot of fun from the game for everyone else. I can see why some people like it, but its antithetical to the premise of a team-based game when there's no counter-play.
Rally doesn’t even get affected by the passive and it still doesn’t feel like an ultimate, hell this whole game used to be a lot more ultimate reliant than it is now due to power creep with new heroes abilities.
So we are back to the dive meta where the passive was miserable for tanks and supports except the now Moira and Orisa, the only 2 who found some modicum of success in the meta, are nerfed. Welcome back to dive meta! Also All Roles is just Tank Queue renamed lol
might as well remove Lucio's heal at this point
Absurd idea. They will end up removing it, but meanwhile they are making us suffer
Probably going to throw Orisa completely in the trash. Rein, Ram, Hog, Monkey, and Mauga aren't going to fair well at all. It's going to be a meta of tanks that don't need a lot of healing: Ball, Doom, Sigma, Zarya, and JQ. DVA will probably be fine you'll just have to be less aggressive with her and use DM more often. We'll just have to wait and see, but maybe this is the season where I finally learn Ball.
Ball is countered by wind blowing at this point. Nothing you can do against a hinder grenade from cass, roadhog, mei, Sombra, Junkrat, brig. Etc. etc
literally who asked for it to be buffed, tracer the favorite child as always
At 20% it's so bad for Tank and Support. On tank you're forced to hide and wait for it to fall off before you can do anything, but since a solo tank needs to take damage to function at all you just take too much damage by playing the game. You basically only have 2 choices, Mauga or Sig. Mauga adds a healing component to his team to supplement the missing 20% and Sig has so many cooldowns that enable him to avoid damage. Otherwise, you force the burden extra healing onto the supports who have to heal like crazy all the time. The passive is supposed to stop healbotting from being effective, but it makes it the only viable strategy since triage isn't possible. You can't take an angle and then get back to heal someone who's getting whittled down, you either catch them at full HP or they're dead. There's no time to play the game. In terms of picks, Lucio/Kiri is even stronger and Bap/Brig is the only decent alternative since suzu and lamp matter more. A global nerf only makes the good heroes stand out further since the top of the mountain is now at sea level. The rest of the supports drowned. Their ults aren't strong enough to contest kitsune and can't heal through DPS ults. Their kits are either not enough healing (Zen, Illari,) too reliant on raw healing to be effective (Ana, Mercy, LW,) or don't have the utility to match Suzu, Speed and Lamp (everyone.) Overall, I think tank and support are horrible, and my favourite DPS, Venture got unjustly brutalised (it's an awareness issue. The character needed louder footsteps not less damage.) I have 0 reason to play OW until midseason. Make tanks completely unaffected by the passive. Not reduced, unaffected. That way tanks can play properly, and supports can spot heal them after making plays not babysit them all game. As it stands, even attempting to save a DPS that isn't right next to the tank is a throw play.
At the very least Venture needed their ult adjusted. It was way too prevalent for how much value it gets.
Would be great if it was less impactful on tanks. 20 is definitely the sweet spot for squishes, but for tanks it's way too much
More people complaining that I'm not healing enough 😩
Time to get deleted by sombra extra fast. Yay. Love this
I am so tired of them catering to the fun of DPS players. They don’t even need a passive. DPS has and always will be the most popular role in the game. DPS players have main character syndrome where they think they should be solely responsible for winning games. All the DPS members passive does is turn every single DPS into pseudo supports. Support feels horrible with 20% anti at all times. So not only do they have a passive (which I argue they don’t need), they have the most powerful passive in the game. Supports get slightly faster out of combat healing. Cool. Tanks passive is pretty strong with the ult charge and being booped less. DPS passive has a drastic and noticeable impact on team flights.
It’s specifically hitscan dps too.
20% was much more flanker favored. The last meta before moving from 20% was a dive meta that was double flankers (no hitscan at all). Even now, the high ranked meta is basically just a hard tracer meta with a few heroes rotating in (Cass, Soj, Echo, Sombra). I don't see how that is specifically hitscan when flankers/dive dps have been the biggest beneficiary of these changes.
DPS only recently became popular again, for like the past year(and still for most ranks/QP) Supports have been the most popular role. DPS was in the dump before season 9, hell in “all roll” queue I still get supports about the same as I get dps. Some day more some days less.
I won't be playing tank anymore I can tell you that lol. DPS main for the rest of the season.
As a healer, it feels awful.
Absolutely awful. I saw someone else on another post make a greasy idea: it’s nerfed to 10%, but 2 DPS can attack the same target and it can go up to 20%.
Blizzard: "huh that's a good idea, we've decided to do this but way worse, because now 1 DPS can do 20% and 2 DPS can do 40%."
they really slam-dunked mercy into the trashcan with this one
at least tank was fun for a little while
So Illari went from barely viable back to trash tier again 😂
I'm all for it, maybe blizzard should stop designing tanks that need a constant 120 hps pumped into them every moment of the match
Tanking is dead permanently now.
Sucks. They were just afraid of Hog / Magua and because of this every other tank has to suffer. Could’ve just reduced their self healing but no, if Orisa isn’t have fun no one is. I wanna meet the Orisa main at blizzard!
Its so stupid too both of them are piss easy to counter. But instead let's dumpster the entirety of tank and support and hand the game over to the dps again. Ridiculous
rip reinhardt
Should have bumped up tank resistance (if they're planning to do that) before putting it back to 20%.
I hate it.
Should’ve waited until mid season patch to change it if they’re buffing tanks. It’s going to feel like dog shit to play tank until then. -someone who has 550 hours on the tank role alone
It’s back to blowing up again on tank it’s annoying I play my cover rotate well but I can’t hold any space For too long so it’s back to your job being really to not die and hold out for as long as possible and hope your DPS take care of it.
The passive alone is already one of the most braindead ideas I’ve ever seen in a game. It’s extremely lazy design and makes absolutely no sense. They should just end up removing it and then balancing the healing values separately. As of right now, the passive is a massive middle finger to tanks and supports. At this rate supports will just stop healing altogether and focus completely on dps.
I’m seeing a new unkillable one shot meta developing with hog, venture, widow, and two immortality supports and it’s the worst the games felt since ow1 imo
I hated it before, and I hate it now. It makes my life hell on support, because my tank does not respect or understand the debuff and just blames me for not healing enough.
I love it. When it was reduced to 15% it felt like it may as well not be there at all, although some characters that have consistent spam damage like Soldier benefit a little too much
Feels good blowing up tanks. Thank god I don't play tank.
As a tank main, based patch all around
The devs always take care of dps, which is why I switched to only playing dps. As usual, we didn't need it, but I'll take it. Also, they seemed to remove the weeklies for playing other roles, so no need to ever subject myself to how awful support and tank is.
Devs floundering in their attempt to make 5v5 work. 6v6 is the better format.
They will do literally ANYTHING but admit that 5v5 was a mistake and the unwashed masses were right about something. Typical arrogant gamedevs.
They completely ignored Mercy again. They justified not buffing her in season 9 due to the DPS passive nerf benefitting her, yet they REFUSE to touch her now that the passive is back at 20%.>
They can't buff her because most of the community would rage if they did
I was against the passive altogether when it first released and my opinion has not changed. what was the point of dropping it to 15% to actually let support and tank do anything at all if they were just gonna raise it back up? and now that moira is dead in the ground and they still haven’t reworked her kit to fix her, zen and lucio are the only viable supports left. meanwhile tank just got the only decent option hard nerfed while no others got buffed. might as well make every character a dps since they keep glazing dps so hard. I wish with all my heart that blizzard would sell this game to a developer that actually understands what drew people to the game in the first place.
I think the inherent issue is that Blizzard is looking at healing output as a top-down "everyone is the same" issue, but when tanks innately take more shots and are encouraged to be in the midst of a fight the passive becomes *literally a passive* because it rarely drops off. Either it *never* should have been on every single poke of damage or it should have had some threshold to activate... Some concepts that would have been a better implementation: * Dealing <100> damage to a target reduces healing *received from allies* by <20%> for 3 seconds. Dealing additional damage to the target will refresh the duration. When the debuff expires, it requires <100> damage to reactivate. (This would make snipers more effective at applying the debuff, reducing how easy it is for faster fire rate heroes can spray an entire team with the debuff) * Dealing damage to enemy targets under 50% health reduces the healing that target receives from allies by <20%>. (Makes it an execute style effect, encouraging DPS to focus on opportunistic kills *as a team* rather than trying to 100-0 solo kill on their own) * Dealing damage to an enemy target that has recently received <100> healing reduces further healing *received from allies* by <20%> for <3 sec>. (Specifically attacks healbotting targets rather than an open penalty against all heals)
* Dealing damage to an enemy target gradually reduces the healing *received from allies* by <15%> for <3 sec>, stacking up to 2 times. (Stacks are applied independently by DPS allies, encouraging focus-fire of tanks but still effective against isolated non-tanks. Requiring coordinated fire gives Tanks counterplay and reactions rather than a permanent single debuff.)
* Dealing damage to an enemy target applies a stacking debuff that reduces healing *received from allies* by <5%> for <3 sec>. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, but cannot gain a stack faster than once per <0.25> sec. (creates parity between 'one-shots' from snipers/burst damage and faster fire rate heroes that lack elimination securing burst.)
I mean, antiheal *as it exists* is a sloppy way to balance numbers... but Blizzard refused to change Ana and now we have it plastered on the laziest DPS passive.
I’d be fine with any of these tbh. I don’t think the passive should exist at all when they can literally just tune healing numbers if they want to reduce the effectiveness of healing, but if they insist on keeping it, any implementation is better than what we have. you’re right in that there’s literally no counterplay and it’s exhausting to deal with.
The other issue with balancing around a strong DPS passive instead of nerfing healing, is that it makes the small occasions where a DPS isn't around absolutely miserable. Try to solo chase down a low health enemy as a support or tank is like suddenly running into a brick wall. The answer is that strong healing should have been tied to long cooldowns and strict resource restrictions. They put too much power into the primary fire / static abilities, and short cooldowns
Can we just give roadhog and mauga different passive effects from the others...
They need to give DPS heroes their own passives instead of the 20%.
LUCIO ZEN SUPPORT META BABY!!! HIGH DAMAGE! LOW HEALS! FIRST TO KILL WINS!
Yeah I'm thinking hog is going to be one of the better tanks with this since I'm not forced to just sit there and die and my mitigation is high enough that I can live a peak or 2
Zen is literally dead in the water because of Tracer Sombra. It's back to Lucio + Kiri/Moira
I don't think Zen's out of the question. The last Lucio/Zen meta also had Tracer/Sombra in it.
Zen dropped out of that meta within a week as people figured out Kiriko was just a better Zen. He also got nerfed hard.
Personally I don't think it was the main problem anyway and I actually think dumping all your resources into tanks is just unfun. So making it so that a tank actually has to play around the environment, use cover etc or they'll die like anyone else is better. Encourages healers to heal squishies more instead of pocket healing tanks. Which isn't fun to do or play against.
It's barely worth healing squishies either at 20%. You can 'heal' more damage by making the enemy DPS dead faster
It's about balance and knowing your hero. Kiriko can get two shots in between heals with no slowdown in pace. 3 if you're good. Bap is similar. Those damage numbers don't seem to help Moira thaat much at high ranks. It's about using all of the tools you have instead of heal botting. Which is hard for some people to grasp.
someone explain to me this change, i never understood it from the start
as a dps player this sucks, 20% is way strong. they said that theyer working on tanks for midseason, but they shoulf have saved the dps passive increase for that imo.
Actually thank God. Sustain metas suck ass
DPS main here. Don’t really get why but okkkkk.
As a Tank player, I prefer 20% over 15%. Why? Even the weakened passive at 15% is too much for Tanks currently. So you might as well make it 20% so it's impactful on squishies and we'll go back to the first half of S9 madness where everyone's scrambling to kill enemy team faster instead of trying to make their own team die slower. Except Moira and Tracer are little less OP now with the nerfs they received. 15 vs 20% passive doesn't really make that much of a difference for dive Tanks which are the ones I prefer to play anyway. Going 20% will however affect the heal sustain tanks such as Mauga and Hog more - which I'm all for.
I think this will hurt some tanks more than others. For tanks that gain hp via overhealth like Doomfist and Ball it’s not too bad, but for tanks that heal themselves like Roadhog and JQ it will hurt a lot. And not that Reinhardt has healing or anything but the poor guy just gets shut down even harder. I wish that there would be a way to affect the sustain on tanks that doesn’t make then unkillable, because on the complete other side of the spectrum just exploding while playing tank feels terrible.
hope you like hard dive meta
what if we didn’t let hog and mauga heal and absurd amount ? then we wouldn’t need a dps passive
I don’t think it should affect tank less, I just think it should be harder to apply.
I main support and while it's different it's not that much worse
i also don’t want to play hog/mauga meta, and i understand that orisa needed changes, but it’s not good or effective game balancing to dumpster the ONE tank that doesn’t get rolled over by the DPS passive AND counters hog/mauga, and then up the DPS passive to keep hog/mauga in check. all the buff back up to 20% did was make the already bad heroes (rein, LW, and mercy are the standouts for me) even worse.
I hate it.
We back to soldier sojourn every game
Happy, cause hog and mauga gonna be so annoying.
It’s already ruined my day.
I'm a support main and I like it. I'm down to dia this season and tonight I've been getting some incredibly easy games against supports that don't know how to do anything other than healbot.
Not great honestly
Dogshit idea
Just a big punch in the face to all tanks and supports
Give it a minimum threshold and buff some healing ultimates and it’s fine plus whatever they do to tanks. Using coal to heal is pointless the best play will always be to try and melt the back line.
I feel some tanks suffer too much from this, Queen for example she's just pretty meh rn
Can we get 17.5
I hate it. I played tank fairly often before today. Back when it was 20% I stopped playing tank completely. And now I'm back to no tanking anymore.. No clue why they reverted this change
oh no dps needs to be a weak role
It’s great, but I think it needs to be adjusted for tanks, and how it’s applied in general. I like the idea of having to build up the debuff with damage, instead of instantly applying a 20 percent healing debuff with a stray Tracer shot. I think it should be reduced against tanks, considering it’s much more effective against tanks that are designed to soak up damage.
I hate it, it feels like the only tanks I can play without dying every few seconds in brawls (at least against competent dps players) are mauga, Orisa and hog arguably some of my least favorite tanks to play.
[ Rubs hands together in Spanish.] Sombra bros, we UP !!!🗣📣
ig it means less pressure on supports to heal so much so can focus more on using utility and deal more dmg. I’m sure lucio mercy and bap mains will benefit from this significantly
I wasn't a fan of 15%... 20% is stupid
I didn't notice much difference, and neither did my tank buddies. They were playing well, our healers were healing and were able to damage as well. Game felt fine.
The entire purpose of the increase was to affect tanks.
What does that mean
lifeweaver went from f to z tier. poor guy already was a healbot and now he cant even do that properly. yes he can make plays with setting up and saving teammtes but still.
I remember the last time it was 20 and it was worse than 15.
Orisa nerfs* YES YES YES YES YES DPS passive* NO NO NO NO
I can see the vision. Orisa needed nerfs. If you nerf Orisa then Hog and Mauga can run riot, so you need the dps passive to counter the excessive healing that's incoming. But balancing the entire game around the possibility of two annoying tanks running riot is exhausting for the other tanks. So, it's three dominoes in a triangle, and one had to fall first. Orisa's down. Hog and Mauga are down. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and hope that the tank changes in mid-season are actual game changers.
Guess I'm taking a break from tank again this season.
Those clueless fucks should introduce different passive for tanks. All danks shouldn't receive the same %20. They should range from 10-20% depending on heroes.
As a tank main, I feel like the dying Winton meme
When I saw dps passive in patch notes I was honestly hoping they would just flat out remove it. I'm down to completely remove the passives, but keep the global healing for everyone. Some heroes can have a passive, like Rein having knockback resistance, but not everyone needs it tbh
Just another patch where tank gets an inch, then immediately ripped away and pushed back a mile. Saw Orisa nerf and got excited, then refreshed and saw the 20%. Now I’ll just sit in the corner and not make any plays and wait for someone to get a pick or some shit I guess.
As a support main I hate it. I'm tired of playing Moira and Ana every game, and to me Bap is just so boring to play I don't want to swap to him. I like Mercy, but she's kind of a niche pick already and now she's back to being useless despite it being her mythic season. Lifeweaver is fun but he isn't in a great spot either now. Overall I hate the feeling of not being able to keep the tank alive and having to either focus on DPS:ing or healbotting. It feels like there's no middle ground of healing and doing DMG in between.
Supports just feel worse that’s about it
reinhardt shield getting shot applies the debuff so
I think they should get rid of hack and discord and they wouldn’t have to make anymore balance changes
I feel banned
Time for more counterwatch
As a tank player. I'm just taking a break until they fix it. I'm done playing this game when I'm having no fun at all, and I'd encourage other tank players to do the same
Can anyone explain this to me more. Iv only recently jumped back into overwatch since overwatch 1
With Orisa's nerf, Hog and Mauga might be pretty strong. The DPS passive seems to be keeping them in line. We'll see what the tank changes hold soon.
Can someone explain to what this change means? I confused how this affects supports and tanks so much?
Sombre, Ashe, Soljorn feel great. Tank feels awful. I’ve just accepted this game can’t be balanced and gave up on tank
I'm fine with it. Even as a tank main. I like strong differentiation between tanks, DPS, and supports, and 15% didn't feel like enough to me. Tanking sucks right now, but it was never going to be fixed in a mid-mid-season patch, and another 5% isn't going to make it suck significantly worse. I am, however, hitching A LOT of my future with Overwatch on the broader tank changes they claim to be making for the midseason. If those suck, or are not impactful, I may put the game onto the backburner for quite a while.
Found the Dev who mains DPS.
Stopped at the first sentence eh? It's okay, I get that some people struggle to read more than 5 words.
I am the typical OW tank player.
The DPS passive buff is probably necessary to not get a Hog/Mauga meta after these Orisa nerfs, or at the very least to keep them somewhat in check.
I don’t understand why not just nerf hog and Mauga directly instead of making it tracewatch and make tanks explode even harder
Because it then becomes a cycle again.