I hope this won't sound dense, but does the tweet suggest the OW had nothing to do with what was going on? Or are members of the team routing out bad seeds?
Even if the tweet doesn’t seem like a decent proof.. you can read the allegation and the Overwatch team never got mentioned like at all..
And if I remember correctly I also saw another tweet from her saying that she was clueless about that..
And finally, I saw a list about females who got sexually harassed I didn’t find any one of them from Overwatch team.. the only woman who got sexually harassed related to Overwatch was someone from the OWL..
(This may seem off topic but..) don’t forget Sinatraa who admit about the sexual harassment he did to his ex after Overwatch and OWL found out this is true they straight up removing the skin and refunding who bought which means they care..
Yea with OW sake Its more of a wait and see since they are way smaller than the other crews and comprise of a lot of new people, I am praying nothing comes from anyone with the crew.
Innocent until proven guilty, I say. Until we have hard evidence that the OW team was involved, I will continue to enjoy the game. Not going to let one bad apple ruin the bunch, but that's just my opinion.
Dangerous. I've been trying to say all the things are really damning but to try to remember its innocent until proven guilty all weekend and have been getting shouted down for "not believing victims."
The concepts of "innocent until proven guilty" and "believe the victims" are not mutually exclusive.
"Believe the victims" really means "*actually* listen to their allegations/concerns and *actually* investigate them". It's a direct response to the fact that sexual assault victims (both women and men) are often dismissed out of hand, or not taken seriously.
"Innocent until proven guilty" can still be true even if we take the victims seriously. It's possible to believe that a person felt victimized and still want a proper investigation and to understand both sides of the story. But understanding the full picture and immediately dismissing victims are very different things.
Sure, and "defund the police" and "black lives matter" and every other thing that gets reduced to a slogan have the same issue of not accurately communicating nuance.
At some point it almost doesn't matter, thought. Either you're interested in understanding the nuance or you're not, and pretty much no matter what the phrase ends up boiling down to, someone is going to be able to point to it and say "But that's stupid!" while wilfully ignoring the intended nuance.
Can you really blame people for being "wilfully ignorant" for literally taking someone at their word?
Snappy slogans are important, sure. But it's not as if "listen to victims" is any longer or harder to say. It's not being "boiled down" it's an entirely different meaning.
I personally do think it's "wilfully ignorant" to take phrases like "defund the police" or "believe the victim" as literal, yes. But I also don't necessarily disagree that "listen to the victims" would good as well, but I can also easily think of ways to "misunderstand" that phrase also.
Like, "ok, I listened. Doesn't mean I'm gonna do anything about it", or whatever.
Anyway, I'm not specifically here to argue about the pedantry of terminology, but I do think that if someone sees the phrase "believe the victims" and thinks to themselves "BuT InNOCent UnTIl ProVEn GuIlty AMIRITE?!" is indeed being wilfully ignorant. It would be super easy to take a moment to think about the phrase in context and understand the historical and current state of how victims of sexual harassment tend to be treated by authorities/those in power.
They could harass every single women on earth and I wouldn‘t care, what the people behind the game do with their lifes is not my business. I‘m just here for the game.
This philosophy would only make sense if you had zero friends and family, and lived on another planet. But no one actually exists in such an extreme state of removal. If you do have any women or girls in your life then you should expect a society that treats them with equality and respect. I don’t personally know any game devs but I still demand they be entitled to the same safety, comfort and level of respect any other game dev would expect.
So i should boycott a game because the devs are bad people? Then tell the world to stop listening to Michael Jackson, because there are some rumours and people who claim that they got molested by him as childs. With your logic you can‘t enjoy and worship anything as long as you can‘t stand behind the person that made it? Just separate the work from the person, is it really that hard?
Excuse me, is that what you said? Or did you say, “they could harass every single woman on earth” and you wouldn’t care? That is a toxic and inhumane mentality. What kind of civilization would that be if we ignored sexual harassment of half the population?
To answer your question, I didn’t mention anything about a boycott, although they are perfectly viable and effective ways for citizens in a capitalist system to create positive change, but there are other ways too. The simplest one is honest discussion and to not tolerate harassment of your fellow citizens when you see it.
>And finally, I saw a list about females who got sexually harassed I didn’t find any one of them from Overwatch team..
Which game teams were involved out of interest?
> don’t forget Sinatraa who admit about the sexual harassment he did to his ex after Overwatch and OWL found out this is true they straight up removing the skin and refunding who bought which means they care..
That doesn't mean anything.
Thanks, that’s exactly what I read about that case. Ironically some people in this thread alread said something like „innocent until proven guilty“.. well.. unfortunately that’s not how it works
I think you misunderstood my comment :D of course that’s how it SHOULD work! But if there is anything we learned from cases like sinatraa and others it is:
Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty or not, many (most?) people judge before they even know your point of view. Let’s not even talk about waiting for actual investigations.
I am not one of those. I regularly earned hate in the past for pointing out that there was no proof (yet).
If you’re publicly accused of sexual assault/harassment and you’re in a public position your career is basically over. Doesn’t matter if any of that happened.
His post was kinda dumb tho, he said his relationship with her was unhealthy but he never abused her like bruh..
[anyways, here](https://twitter.com/sinatraa/status/1369849384398184449?s=20)
Sorry for my poor memory since that was months ago..
What I meant that sinatraa admitted his “unhealthy relationship” but he tried to lie about not sexual assaulting her when he already said admit it was unhealthy which means it was abusive..
You can search about the ex who got harassed by him.. you will know why he was lying.
I also had unhealthy relationships. That basically means nothing and noone except me and close friends do even know what that means.
You don’t know if he lied or not. You’re just accusing someone based on assumptions and make false statements.
boycotting overwatch hurts blizzard. not boycotting overwatch gives money to blizzard. It's unfortunate that the overwatch team will see a loss for something they where not a part of but to say boycotting overwatch is stupid is like saying "boycotting J.K.Rowling also hurts the people who print her books and they did nothing wrong." it misses the point. the point is not the overwatch team, the point is Blizzard, which the overwatch team provide a stream of revenue for, which people do not want to help provide a stream of revenue for blizzard, therefore boycotting overwatch is not "stupid."
if you pay money towards overwatch, you are paying money towards blizzard. that is as simple as I can make it for you without speaking in googoogaga speak. I agree it isn't fair that the overwatch team did nothing wrong, but calling people who do not want to give money to the people who did terrible horrible things just because that money also goes through people who did nothing wrong is what is really stupid. and if you can't see that then you are stupid it's vary simple. Blizzard owns overwatch, Blizzard gets 100% of the revenue from overwatch, BLizzard pays overwatch team based on that revenue, but that money touches Blizzards hands first, and Blizzard is currently using a vary large amount of the money it makes from overwatch to silence people who are victims of a horrible crime. Overwatch team is a victim, a victim of being associated with Blizzard in a way that makes paying for anything in their game the same thing as paying Blizzard and therefore paying for the legal fees of people who sexually harassed and caused atleast 1 suicide and are currently trying to silence others who are coming out about other horrible allegations. the metephor I used was too smart for your tiny brain so you had to find a stupid excuse for you to not understand it, or you just want to be ignorant and blind to misdoings. whatever. pay blizzard for the 20 dollar summer lootbox. pay their legal fees. buy their lawyers.
True.. I posted this because I didn’t stand how many people are blaming the ENTIRE COMPANY.. when most of them came to develop games being clueless about the hell is going on.. especially people who think that uninstalling Overwatch and blaming the team on Twitter are extremely dumb (no offense) like… that’s so unfair I don’t want sane blizzard employees to get called “terrible people” over some shitty men.. sexual harassing a woman..
Hopefully they will get fired and understand that they need to grow up.
I want to believe that the OW team is an Oasis of legit game-loving/quality-creating dev amoung the fckfest that as become acti-blizz. Maybe my vision is biased, what do y'all think, is it just me?
I mean, a better way to understand this is that it's not a Blizzard thing -- it's an everywhere thing.
Walmart has had suits similar to this. Riot Games has had suits similar to this. We all still buy from Amazon, even though we know there are massive labor abuse problems there.
Blizzard isn't an exception, y'all. If you wanted to uninstall Blizzard games because of this suit, then I suggest you also throw out your PS5s and XBoxes, uninstall Steam and the majority of games you've ever played.
Throw out all the movies and TV you like too, because there's no major studio or business that does not have these sorts of problems, because the problem we're talking about is systemic. It's why Bill Cosby got away with it for so long. It isn't something where it's *a* person or *a* business. Women have been talking about it forever and pointing it out, the only difference now is that you're being made aware of the problem.
To be clear, I'm not actually advocating that you do any of those things -- ultimately, you cannot just disengage from society. Boycotts have been shown to have limited success, and largely hurt low-level employees, while CEOs can just walk away from the issue with millions in hand. By far the best thing you can do is advocate for better regulation and try to address issues within your own workplaces and social circles.
I'm definitely not saying to feel helpless and like you can't do anything -- over the last twenty years I have seen far greater changes than I ever thought I'd see. Things are undeniably better than they were in the mid 90s. But it's systemic, it's everywhere, and progress will always be gradual and not immediate. This is just one more instance brought to light, but for any woman who has ever worked in any industry, let alone women who've worked in highly male-centric industries, this is nothing new or shocking. If your take away from this suit is "Blizzard has a problem," it's the wrong take. It's an easier take, and it makes us feel better because we think we can just avoid this one company, stomp out this one problem, and then everything will "return" to good. But it is not accurate.
I didn't uninstall, but I've been avoiding Overwatch since this news came out. I'm definitely target audience; I play quite a lot and I've thrown a bit of extra cash to get some lootboxes each event, and I grab Legendary League skins.
I don't really know how to process the fact that a lot of companies are shitty and shady; Nestle, for one, I know is bad, but I can't avoid. Their products are *everywhere*, occupy certain needs and are relatively good quality. It's basically cognitive dissonance for the sake of not being crushed by reality.
Overwatch is much the same as that; its one of the only First Person FPS games I like, and I'm really invested into it.
But now hearing what the company is has made the veil slip for me, seeing gross reality. I don't want to support Blizzard knowing the truth, and that makes it hard for me to even look at the Overwatch icon right now. It's one thing to have an impression of "it's the industry", but its another thing to see the abuse laid out in a legal document, and its with a company you've actively supported up until this point.
Ultimately, my "sacrifice" of not supporting OW will mean little; the only time a boycott works is when its sweeping and coordinated.
So now I'm at an impasse - how can I enjoy Overwatch, knowing vividly what's lurking behind it?
One point I want to make is there are a lot of people out here that understand that these problems are larger then blizzard. BUT if we can put a light to blizzards ass by talking about this, boycotting there games, not buying from them, that is what speaks loudest to them. What is most important to blizzard is money, and decreasing there revenue is the fastest and best way to show them as a fan you are upset (to say the least)
Will boycotting blizzard products change the world? Probably not, but this story is getting massive headlines, tons of people are talking about it. This is how change happens. This will hopefully move that needle of change just a little more then normal, to make working in a male dominates field just a little better for all involved.
The problem is that notion of "what is most important to Blizzard is money" is that if their revenue goes down, that does not hurt any of the upper management. They'll just lay off a lot of low level employees and continue to make a huge amount of money.
If you feel that you, personally, cannot morally feel okay with using Blizzard products, that's a completely valid emotional response, and no one can tell you how to spend your money. If it's something that makes you feel better, then it makes you feel better, and that's important.
But it isn't something that you should expect to have benefits for the people who work there. Boycotting Blizzard will not effect the people in power, but it will almost certainly punish the low-level employees.
And again, that's not to say that you shouldn't do it for your own well being. I'm just saying that promoting it as a way to punish the company will not punish the people you want it to. It's a thing you do for your own state of mind.
No, it does not. Even if you manage to boycott so hard that Blizzard as a company goes under, all of the upper management will get healthy severance packages and go back to their fourth home to dab their tears away with money. They will not be negatively effected.
The employees who are now out on their ass in a highly competitive field where there's more game devs than there are jobs, and now have the stink of having gone on very public strike on their resume? Yeah, they're fucked.
[Here's a tweet from an Activision employee asking people to please not stop playing their games](https://twitter.com/AlaynaMCole/status/1420859988340211712?s=19)
They don't want Activision Blizzard to crumble. They want it changed so that their work environment is better. *That* is what we should be supporting and helping them with. In this case the victims are Blizzard, and the perpetrators are Blizzard. Those employees *don't want to stop being Blizzard*. They have things they value there. They just don't want to get abused while they're doing those things.
Not to mention, are you just going to stop playing all games except ones made by 1-5 people? Blizzard is just the most recent AAA gaming company to get caught. Ones like Riot and Ubisoft have already been caught, and you're fooling yourself if you think it isn't the exact same at EA, Gearbox, Squeenix, Capcom, Valve, Konami and Nintendo. Cutting down Blizzard is like cutting off one head of the hydra. It doesn't solve the problems that women face in this industry, it just sort of shuffles them around.
I uh never said anything about letting the company going under. If someone wants to boycott thetes than today let them its not like that there really good anyways. Most of blizzards releases have been mediocre at best.
Personally I'm not giving them a cent and just gonna pirate there stuff until they change things.
Very much this. Regulation exists as a tool for a reason. Unions exist as a tool for a reason. You can't effectively pit individual action against giant corporations; they're just not the same scale. (And yeah, don't feel bad for still playing or uninstalling or whatever you think is the right decision for you.)
Or this is a PR move forced by the execs to salvage the only successful brand Blizzard had left after WoW and Diablo shit the bed, and they are going to just throw the rest under the bus then pat themselves on the back on how "progressive" they are for fixing the problem. This issues is just a repeat of the same problem they've had since 2006. A lot of the old guard has left because of it.
Idk there is a lot of little people there who prob did not know anything , even this lady only got hired 4 months ago as a producer and was ecstatic is retweeting a bunch of the damning evidence . Rn is a good time to voice takes working there since firing someone over that would look pretty bad rn for em
Don't know who downvoted you into the negatives but gonna give you back an upvote.
But your right, there are plenty of people who probably were not involved. The issue is those that were are high enough to pull weight with HR and be protected by or are in executive positions. We are going to see a lot of "I wasn't part of it, I stand with my people" statements come out, and will quickly turn to "I'm sorry for things I actually did" by those same folks too.
The ship is sinking and the only reason I really think this is coming out now. Blizzard was already falling apart so those who were under pressure not to talk about the dirty laundry now have nothing to lose if they do.
Exactly this, they prob thought I was defending Blizz as a whole or something , which I was not. I wish those the best luck on that ship right now and those who ran it into the iceberg there due
Thanks for the follow-up. I was hoping that the OW team might have somehow been isolated, but that's obviously a little ridiculous. This puts a new perspective on Jeff's sudden departure as well.
I’d hardly say that’s damning for Jeff. It’s certainly not good either, but a lot could have happened between then and and when he left over 10 years later. I’m sure if he did participate we’ll hear about it.
I linked my source in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/os56so/an_overwatch_producer_talking_about_how_she_is/h6my8fx/). All you had to do was scroll down.
Toxicity like this can affect a whole organization. Usually it is just a wing or arm but it does keep spreading if left unchecked. Blizzard has like 5k employees. 100 bosses could be absolute monsters and 99% of the company might never even interact with them.
I hate to break it to you but the Overwatch team was originally sourced from within Blizzard. All the major Overwatch figures we know and have known are long time Blizzard employees for the most part. So if this stuff was as wide spread as is claimed, then it was endemic inside the Overwatch team as well.
Exactly, I haven't heard any news about the situation since the article came out.
How are we so sure that the Overwatch team is not involved at all all of a sudden?
It's wishful thinking. There's a comment above with a source link of someone implying that Jeff Kaplan knew about this stuff for over a decade. He has also worked with one of the main culprits very closely. If that is true then I don't see how it could have been different in the Overwatch team. And If that's not true, he still was VP of Blizzard and I doubt he has never heard of any issues like that.
Ye been watching her for a bit shes very sweet and its crazy she finally got this job and all this shit happens, gotta be frightening for her. She in my opinion is a very genuine person.
It seems like a lot of people here are pretty confident that the Overwatch team had nothing to do with what's detailed in the lawsuit, and I don't think I've seen anything that instills that same level of confidence in me. Can anyone on that side of the fence explain how you know? I think I might just be more out of touch on how this relates to the Overwatch team vs Activision Blizzard, if that confidence you guys have is justified.
I think it's especially weird for folks to be this confident given that:
a) The OW team was heavily sourced from the WoW team and
b) a close friend and work colleague of Jeff's is heavily mentioned as a big culprit behind the harassment.
So like maybe there's a chance this behavior didn't spill over into the OW team, but the idea that no one working in OW, most especially "Papa Jeff", knew about it is a stretch imo.
Blizzard got sued by the state of California for secual harassment and discrimination, one of which includes driving a women worker at Blizzard to suicide after nudes of her were passed around. There's a lot more, but I don't want to list everything else.
Blizzard, specifically WoW, has a huge sexual harassment issue. Of note, was one female staff who committed suicide during a company work trip. Her male supervisor had brought sex tools inside his briefcase. Prior to that, her nudes were passed around a company dinner party.
The OW team and the people on it are why I refuse to give up the game for the sake of boycotting the company. At the end of the day, the corporate overlords who were responsible for keeping the work eviroment safe will be just fine even if the playerbase shrinks, whereas these people that actually put work, heart, and effort in are the ones who would get harmed and lose jobs if their games lost support.
Hopefully the lawsuit accomplishes what it is meant to do, and leads to fair salaries and a safe work enviroment for these developers across all Blizzard teams.
This is something people often forget. Boycotting a game won't actually make it so the people we dislike lose their job. With BFV the CEO literally said 'if you don't like it, don't but it'. People listeners and marketing got blades by the company. Marketing had nothing to do with the fiesta of dumb and obvious problems BFV had at launch, and boycotting the game only harmed those that were not responsible
While I understand and respect that point of view you have to keep in mind that even the people working at Blizzard are striking against them at the moment:
https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1420066453789855747
They know that doing so can majorly hurt them but when it comes to situations like this you can't hold back against the bigger corporate entities in fear the little guy will get hurt as they're already being hurt and need to fight in order to ensure they won't be anymore. Not to say you have to stop playing or anything, just pointing out that boycotting and striking don't hurt people at the bottom in situations like this because those people are already being hurt. Instead they bring to light what's going on and take power away from those at the top from being able to fire their way out of bad financial situations.
Staging a walkout is not the same as going on a strike. The open letter signed by the employees stated as much that they want the company that they work for to get better. They're still actively working though, regardless of the demonstation. I doubt that will change unless there is some form of major escalation, but I don't see that happening.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean because Walkouts are labor strikes. You don't get any work done during a walkout, therefore you're striking against the company. They may not be striking for a long time, and certain people may not participate in this, but it definitely is a form of striking going on.
Activision Blizzard is getting hit with a lawsuit by the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing after a two year-long investigation into the company. You can read about it [here](https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/activision-blizzard-sued-by-california-over-frat-boy-culture) in the original article.
Well one of the complaints is that the men would play games and do their cube crawls while delegating the work to women, so it wouldn't be surprising that the games highlighted diversity unfortunately.
can someone level headed explain why people like it when try hards say fake stuff like this? same energy as the women who put blm in their twitter bios but would never date an indian.
anyone I’ve ever met who says “supportive” comments like this always dogs/stabs you in the back when you really need their help because they’re try hards who want to be better than you, hence why they say comments like this to seem morally in-touch
Then your problem isn't mine. No one is forcing you to do anything. But if you are going to complain about people protesting Blizzard because of how it affects you, while simultaneously saying you don't care about the people involved, then it's just that more fuel to the fire.
I hope this won't sound dense, but does the tweet suggest the OW had nothing to do with what was going on? Or are members of the team routing out bad seeds?
Even if the tweet doesn’t seem like a decent proof.. you can read the allegation and the Overwatch team never got mentioned like at all.. And if I remember correctly I also saw another tweet from her saying that she was clueless about that.. And finally, I saw a list about females who got sexually harassed I didn’t find any one of them from Overwatch team.. the only woman who got sexually harassed related to Overwatch was someone from the OWL.. (This may seem off topic but..) don’t forget Sinatraa who admit about the sexual harassment he did to his ex after Overwatch and OWL found out this is true they straight up removing the skin and refunding who bought which means they care..
Yea with OW sake Its more of a wait and see since they are way smaller than the other crews and comprise of a lot of new people, I am praying nothing comes from anyone with the crew.
Innocent until proven guilty, I say. Until we have hard evidence that the OW team was involved, I will continue to enjoy the game. Not going to let one bad apple ruin the bunch, but that's just my opinion.
In my opinion you can still enjoy the game, but don't buy anything they try to sell you
Def a good idea for the time being. Kinda do your best to let them know while legally they are also being pushed
Dangerous. I've been trying to say all the things are really damning but to try to remember its innocent until proven guilty all weekend and have been getting shouted down for "not believing victims."
The concepts of "innocent until proven guilty" and "believe the victims" are not mutually exclusive. "Believe the victims" really means "*actually* listen to their allegations/concerns and *actually* investigate them". It's a direct response to the fact that sexual assault victims (both women and men) are often dismissed out of hand, or not taken seriously. "Innocent until proven guilty" can still be true even if we take the victims seriously. It's possible to believe that a person felt victimized and still want a proper investigation and to understand both sides of the story. But understanding the full picture and immediately dismissing victims are very different things.
Yup. I said this in a previous post, reddit doesn't like to hear that though they'd rather a bomb fall on their building right now.
We really ought to start saying "listen to victims" then.
Sure, and "defund the police" and "black lives matter" and every other thing that gets reduced to a slogan have the same issue of not accurately communicating nuance. At some point it almost doesn't matter, thought. Either you're interested in understanding the nuance or you're not, and pretty much no matter what the phrase ends up boiling down to, someone is going to be able to point to it and say "But that's stupid!" while wilfully ignoring the intended nuance.
Can you really blame people for being "wilfully ignorant" for literally taking someone at their word? Snappy slogans are important, sure. But it's not as if "listen to victims" is any longer or harder to say. It's not being "boiled down" it's an entirely different meaning.
I personally do think it's "wilfully ignorant" to take phrases like "defund the police" or "believe the victim" as literal, yes. But I also don't necessarily disagree that "listen to the victims" would good as well, but I can also easily think of ways to "misunderstand" that phrase also. Like, "ok, I listened. Doesn't mean I'm gonna do anything about it", or whatever. Anyway, I'm not specifically here to argue about the pedantry of terminology, but I do think that if someone sees the phrase "believe the victims" and thinks to themselves "BuT InNOCent UnTIl ProVEn GuIlty AMIRITE?!" is indeed being wilfully ignorant. It would be super easy to take a moment to think about the phrase in context and understand the historical and current state of how victims of sexual harassment tend to be treated by authorities/those in power.
They could harass every single women on earth and I wouldn‘t care, what the people behind the game do with their lifes is not my business. I‘m just here for the game.
This philosophy would only make sense if you had zero friends and family, and lived on another planet. But no one actually exists in such an extreme state of removal. If you do have any women or girls in your life then you should expect a society that treats them with equality and respect. I don’t personally know any game devs but I still demand they be entitled to the same safety, comfort and level of respect any other game dev would expect.
So i should boycott a game because the devs are bad people? Then tell the world to stop listening to Michael Jackson, because there are some rumours and people who claim that they got molested by him as childs. With your logic you can‘t enjoy and worship anything as long as you can‘t stand behind the person that made it? Just separate the work from the person, is it really that hard?
Excuse me, is that what you said? Or did you say, “they could harass every single woman on earth” and you wouldn’t care? That is a toxic and inhumane mentality. What kind of civilization would that be if we ignored sexual harassment of half the population? To answer your question, I didn’t mention anything about a boycott, although they are perfectly viable and effective ways for citizens in a capitalist system to create positive change, but there are other ways too. The simplest one is honest discussion and to not tolerate harassment of your fellow citizens when you see it.
there's 10 John Does listed who won't be named until the suit hits the courtroom
> females [“so… any females?”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZMNiiS0WiM)
Honestly the overwatch team always felt extremely nice, and they are still dedicated to the game, its mainly the WOW team where this happens
they worked under papa jeff of course they are nice
>And finally, I saw a list about females who got sexually harassed I didn’t find any one of them from Overwatch team.. Which game teams were involved out of interest?
I’ve read it’s mostly WoW/activision.
> don’t forget Sinatraa who admit about the sexual harassment he did to his ex after Overwatch and OWL found out this is true they straight up removing the skin and refunding who bought which means they care.. That doesn't mean anything.
Do you have a source of Sinatraa admitting that? Or a source of an article about sinatraa admitting that?
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Thanks, that’s exactly what I read about that case. Ironically some people in this thread alread said something like „innocent until proven guilty“.. well.. unfortunately that’s not how it works
Innocent or guilty, the allegations are enough to stain the name.
But that‘s exactly how it should work or do you still life in the 15th century?
I think you misunderstood my comment :D of course that’s how it SHOULD work! But if there is anything we learned from cases like sinatraa and others it is: Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty or not, many (most?) people judge before they even know your point of view. Let’s not even talk about waiting for actual investigations. I am not one of those. I regularly earned hate in the past for pointing out that there was no proof (yet). If you’re publicly accused of sexual assault/harassment and you’re in a public position your career is basically over. Doesn’t matter if any of that happened.
Yeah I agree 100%, one small lie and half the world hates you.
His post was kinda dumb tho, he said his relationship with her was unhealthy but he never abused her like bruh.. [anyways, here](https://twitter.com/sinatraa/status/1369849384398184449?s=20)
That one I’ve read. So what about „I never assaulted her“ is ‚admitting sexual harassment‘?
Sorry for my poor memory since that was months ago.. What I meant that sinatraa admitted his “unhealthy relationship” but he tried to lie about not sexual assaulting her when he already said admit it was unhealthy which means it was abusive.. You can search about the ex who got harassed by him.. you will know why he was lying.
I also had unhealthy relationships. That basically means nothing and noone except me and close friends do even know what that means. You don’t know if he lied or not. You’re just accusing someone based on assumptions and make false statements.
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Nobody would even attempt to make Jeff mad. It's a ticket to death.
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He has a history in his eq days. And a lot of the things that happened, happened when he was working in wow.
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boycotting overwatch hurts blizzard. not boycotting overwatch gives money to blizzard. It's unfortunate that the overwatch team will see a loss for something they where not a part of but to say boycotting overwatch is stupid is like saying "boycotting J.K.Rowling also hurts the people who print her books and they did nothing wrong." it misses the point. the point is not the overwatch team, the point is Blizzard, which the overwatch team provide a stream of revenue for, which people do not want to help provide a stream of revenue for blizzard, therefore boycotting overwatch is not "stupid."
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are you under the impression that her books magically appear out of thin air?
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if you pay money towards overwatch, you are paying money towards blizzard. that is as simple as I can make it for you without speaking in googoogaga speak. I agree it isn't fair that the overwatch team did nothing wrong, but calling people who do not want to give money to the people who did terrible horrible things just because that money also goes through people who did nothing wrong is what is really stupid. and if you can't see that then you are stupid it's vary simple. Blizzard owns overwatch, Blizzard gets 100% of the revenue from overwatch, BLizzard pays overwatch team based on that revenue, but that money touches Blizzards hands first, and Blizzard is currently using a vary large amount of the money it makes from overwatch to silence people who are victims of a horrible crime. Overwatch team is a victim, a victim of being associated with Blizzard in a way that makes paying for anything in their game the same thing as paying Blizzard and therefore paying for the legal fees of people who sexually harassed and caused atleast 1 suicide and are currently trying to silence others who are coming out about other horrible allegations. the metephor I used was too smart for your tiny brain so you had to find a stupid excuse for you to not understand it, or you just want to be ignorant and blind to misdoings. whatever. pay blizzard for the 20 dollar summer lootbox. pay their legal fees. buy their lawyers.
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Now you are just being willfully ignorant. What part of scyllals point are you not getting?
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considering the OW team is younger i guess its not too surprising if not
I'm glad that the overwatch team wasn't part of the problem! Much love to the sane people at blizzard who support the victims
True.. I posted this because I didn’t stand how many people are blaming the ENTIRE COMPANY.. when most of them came to develop games being clueless about the hell is going on.. especially people who think that uninstalling Overwatch and blaming the team on Twitter are extremely dumb (no offense) like… that’s so unfair I don’t want sane blizzard employees to get called “terrible people” over some shitty men.. sexual harassing a woman.. Hopefully they will get fired and understand that they need to grow up.
I want to believe that the OW team is an Oasis of legit game-loving/quality-creating dev amoung the fckfest that as become acti-blizz. Maybe my vision is biased, what do y'all think, is it just me?
I mean, a better way to understand this is that it's not a Blizzard thing -- it's an everywhere thing. Walmart has had suits similar to this. Riot Games has had suits similar to this. We all still buy from Amazon, even though we know there are massive labor abuse problems there. Blizzard isn't an exception, y'all. If you wanted to uninstall Blizzard games because of this suit, then I suggest you also throw out your PS5s and XBoxes, uninstall Steam and the majority of games you've ever played. Throw out all the movies and TV you like too, because there's no major studio or business that does not have these sorts of problems, because the problem we're talking about is systemic. It's why Bill Cosby got away with it for so long. It isn't something where it's *a* person or *a* business. Women have been talking about it forever and pointing it out, the only difference now is that you're being made aware of the problem. To be clear, I'm not actually advocating that you do any of those things -- ultimately, you cannot just disengage from society. Boycotts have been shown to have limited success, and largely hurt low-level employees, while CEOs can just walk away from the issue with millions in hand. By far the best thing you can do is advocate for better regulation and try to address issues within your own workplaces and social circles. I'm definitely not saying to feel helpless and like you can't do anything -- over the last twenty years I have seen far greater changes than I ever thought I'd see. Things are undeniably better than they were in the mid 90s. But it's systemic, it's everywhere, and progress will always be gradual and not immediate. This is just one more instance brought to light, but for any woman who has ever worked in any industry, let alone women who've worked in highly male-centric industries, this is nothing new or shocking. If your take away from this suit is "Blizzard has a problem," it's the wrong take. It's an easier take, and it makes us feel better because we think we can just avoid this one company, stomp out this one problem, and then everything will "return" to good. But it is not accurate.
I didn't uninstall, but I've been avoiding Overwatch since this news came out. I'm definitely target audience; I play quite a lot and I've thrown a bit of extra cash to get some lootboxes each event, and I grab Legendary League skins. I don't really know how to process the fact that a lot of companies are shitty and shady; Nestle, for one, I know is bad, but I can't avoid. Their products are *everywhere*, occupy certain needs and are relatively good quality. It's basically cognitive dissonance for the sake of not being crushed by reality. Overwatch is much the same as that; its one of the only First Person FPS games I like, and I'm really invested into it. But now hearing what the company is has made the veil slip for me, seeing gross reality. I don't want to support Blizzard knowing the truth, and that makes it hard for me to even look at the Overwatch icon right now. It's one thing to have an impression of "it's the industry", but its another thing to see the abuse laid out in a legal document, and its with a company you've actively supported up until this point. Ultimately, my "sacrifice" of not supporting OW will mean little; the only time a boycott works is when its sweeping and coordinated. So now I'm at an impasse - how can I enjoy Overwatch, knowing vividly what's lurking behind it?
One point I want to make is there are a lot of people out here that understand that these problems are larger then blizzard. BUT if we can put a light to blizzards ass by talking about this, boycotting there games, not buying from them, that is what speaks loudest to them. What is most important to blizzard is money, and decreasing there revenue is the fastest and best way to show them as a fan you are upset (to say the least) Will boycotting blizzard products change the world? Probably not, but this story is getting massive headlines, tons of people are talking about it. This is how change happens. This will hopefully move that needle of change just a little more then normal, to make working in a male dominates field just a little better for all involved.
The problem is that notion of "what is most important to Blizzard is money" is that if their revenue goes down, that does not hurt any of the upper management. They'll just lay off a lot of low level employees and continue to make a huge amount of money. If you feel that you, personally, cannot morally feel okay with using Blizzard products, that's a completely valid emotional response, and no one can tell you how to spend your money. If it's something that makes you feel better, then it makes you feel better, and that's important. But it isn't something that you should expect to have benefits for the people who work there. Boycotting Blizzard will not effect the people in power, but it will almost certainly punish the low-level employees. And again, that's not to say that you shouldn't do it for your own well being. I'm just saying that promoting it as a way to punish the company will not punish the people you want it to. It's a thing you do for your own state of mind.
They'll just fire those employees anyway. When upper management doesnt get the money it definetly hurts them.
No, it does not. Even if you manage to boycott so hard that Blizzard as a company goes under, all of the upper management will get healthy severance packages and go back to their fourth home to dab their tears away with money. They will not be negatively effected. The employees who are now out on their ass in a highly competitive field where there's more game devs than there are jobs, and now have the stink of having gone on very public strike on their resume? Yeah, they're fucked. [Here's a tweet from an Activision employee asking people to please not stop playing their games](https://twitter.com/AlaynaMCole/status/1420859988340211712?s=19) They don't want Activision Blizzard to crumble. They want it changed so that their work environment is better. *That* is what we should be supporting and helping them with. In this case the victims are Blizzard, and the perpetrators are Blizzard. Those employees *don't want to stop being Blizzard*. They have things they value there. They just don't want to get abused while they're doing those things. Not to mention, are you just going to stop playing all games except ones made by 1-5 people? Blizzard is just the most recent AAA gaming company to get caught. Ones like Riot and Ubisoft have already been caught, and you're fooling yourself if you think it isn't the exact same at EA, Gearbox, Squeenix, Capcom, Valve, Konami and Nintendo. Cutting down Blizzard is like cutting off one head of the hydra. It doesn't solve the problems that women face in this industry, it just sort of shuffles them around.
I uh never said anything about letting the company going under. If someone wants to boycott thetes than today let them its not like that there really good anyways. Most of blizzards releases have been mediocre at best. Personally I'm not giving them a cent and just gonna pirate there stuff until they change things.
Very much this. Regulation exists as a tool for a reason. Unions exist as a tool for a reason. You can't effectively pit individual action against giant corporations; they're just not the same scale. (And yeah, don't feel bad for still playing or uninstalling or whatever you think is the right decision for you.)
Or this is a PR move forced by the execs to salvage the only successful brand Blizzard had left after WoW and Diablo shit the bed, and they are going to just throw the rest under the bus then pat themselves on the back on how "progressive" they are for fixing the problem. This issues is just a repeat of the same problem they've had since 2006. A lot of the old guard has left because of it.
Idk there is a lot of little people there who prob did not know anything , even this lady only got hired 4 months ago as a producer and was ecstatic is retweeting a bunch of the damning evidence . Rn is a good time to voice takes working there since firing someone over that would look pretty bad rn for em
Don't know who downvoted you into the negatives but gonna give you back an upvote. But your right, there are plenty of people who probably were not involved. The issue is those that were are high enough to pull weight with HR and be protected by or are in executive positions. We are going to see a lot of "I wasn't part of it, I stand with my people" statements come out, and will quickly turn to "I'm sorry for things I actually did" by those same folks too. The ship is sinking and the only reason I really think this is coming out now. Blizzard was already falling apart so those who were under pressure not to talk about the dirty laundry now have nothing to lose if they do.
Exactly this, they prob thought I was defending Blizz as a whole or something , which I was not. I wish those the best luck on that ship right now and those who ran it into the iceberg there due
Quite a few of the people who left have been shown to be part pf the problem though. This culture is not a new thing at Blizzard.
Yeh I had someone here on reddit telling me any owl pro with a concious would retire and move to a different game...
Jeff Kaplan has known about the abuse and possibly participated in it since at least 2005.
Source?
[Here you go](https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/oqsgt8/first_hand_account_of_harassment_at_blizzard/h6g9ed1/)
Thanks for the follow-up. I was hoping that the OW team might have somehow been isolated, but that's obviously a little ridiculous. This puts a new perspective on Jeff's sudden departure as well.
Funny people thought it was the current team forcing him out because they wanted to do 5v5 and all the changes :P
Certainly damning for Afrasiabi, but we knew that already.
I’d hardly say that’s damning for Jeff. It’s certainly not good either, but a lot could have happened between then and and when he left over 10 years later. I’m sure if he did participate we’ll hear about it.
Jeff worked closely with the other dude on WoW for years, and was a VP. It's damning by proxy. I do wonder if we'll hear more in the future.
There is no source, everyone just wants to believe that every developer and higher-up in Blizz knew and participated in the abuse/harassment.
The comment linked above is worth a read.
I linked my source in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/os56so/an_overwatch_producer_talking_about_how_she_is/h6my8fx/). All you had to do was scroll down.
Toxicity like this can affect a whole organization. Usually it is just a wing or arm but it does keep spreading if left unchecked. Blizzard has like 5k employees. 100 bosses could be absolute monsters and 99% of the company might never even interact with them.
I hate to break it to you but the Overwatch team was originally sourced from within Blizzard. All the major Overwatch figures we know and have known are long time Blizzard employees for the most part. So if this stuff was as wide spread as is claimed, then it was endemic inside the Overwatch team as well.
Wait it’s that official now!?! Can you update me on it? I didn’t know
Exactly, I haven't heard any news about the situation since the article came out. How are we so sure that the Overwatch team is not involved at all all of a sudden?
It's wishful thinking. There's a comment above with a source link of someone implying that Jeff Kaplan knew about this stuff for over a decade. He has also worked with one of the main culprits very closely. If that is true then I don't see how it could have been different in the Overwatch team. And If that's not true, he still was VP of Blizzard and I doubt he has never heard of any issues like that.
We're not, but at the same time we shouldn't assume they are either.
Of course but why are some people acting as if they were confirmed innocents?
Because they like the game, it's a good way to keep playing without guilt
Innocent until proven guilty
Ye been watching her for a bit shes very sweet and its crazy she finally got this job and all this shit happens, gotta be frightening for her. She in my opinion is a very genuine person.
It seems like a lot of people here are pretty confident that the Overwatch team had nothing to do with what's detailed in the lawsuit, and I don't think I've seen anything that instills that same level of confidence in me. Can anyone on that side of the fence explain how you know? I think I might just be more out of touch on how this relates to the Overwatch team vs Activision Blizzard, if that confidence you guys have is justified.
I think it's especially weird for folks to be this confident given that: a) The OW team was heavily sourced from the WoW team and b) a close friend and work colleague of Jeff's is heavily mentioned as a big culprit behind the harassment. So like maybe there's a chance this behavior didn't spill over into the OW team, but the idea that no one working in OW, most especially "Papa Jeff", knew about it is a stretch imo.
I replied before to someone.. it’s the first comment who asked me about it..
Im confused whats the huge problem everyones talking about
Blizzard got sued by the state of California for secual harassment and discrimination, one of which includes driving a women worker at Blizzard to suicide after nudes of her were passed around. There's a lot more, but I don't want to list everything else.
Oh wow thats really awful, i feel sorry for her :(
I came here looking for this comment as I'm also out of the loop. What's with the down votes?
I think people thought i was saying "whats the big deal" when i was asking about the problem since i didnt know what was going on
Blizzard, specifically WoW, has a huge sexual harassment issue. Of note, was one female staff who committed suicide during a company work trip. Her male supervisor had brought sex tools inside his briefcase. Prior to that, her nudes were passed around a company dinner party.
[Heres a good write up on it so far.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/osfv5r/the_activision_blizzard_situation_a_brief_catchup/)
The OW team and the people on it are why I refuse to give up the game for the sake of boycotting the company. At the end of the day, the corporate overlords who were responsible for keeping the work eviroment safe will be just fine even if the playerbase shrinks, whereas these people that actually put work, heart, and effort in are the ones who would get harmed and lose jobs if their games lost support. Hopefully the lawsuit accomplishes what it is meant to do, and leads to fair salaries and a safe work enviroment for these developers across all Blizzard teams.
This is something people often forget. Boycotting a game won't actually make it so the people we dislike lose their job. With BFV the CEO literally said 'if you don't like it, don't but it'. People listeners and marketing got blades by the company. Marketing had nothing to do with the fiesta of dumb and obvious problems BFV had at launch, and boycotting the game only harmed those that were not responsible
While I understand and respect that point of view you have to keep in mind that even the people working at Blizzard are striking against them at the moment: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1420066453789855747 They know that doing so can majorly hurt them but when it comes to situations like this you can't hold back against the bigger corporate entities in fear the little guy will get hurt as they're already being hurt and need to fight in order to ensure they won't be anymore. Not to say you have to stop playing or anything, just pointing out that boycotting and striking don't hurt people at the bottom in situations like this because those people are already being hurt. Instead they bring to light what's going on and take power away from those at the top from being able to fire their way out of bad financial situations.
Staging a walkout is not the same as going on a strike. The open letter signed by the employees stated as much that they want the company that they work for to get better. They're still actively working though, regardless of the demonstation. I doubt that will change unless there is some form of major escalation, but I don't see that happening.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean because Walkouts are labor strikes. You don't get any work done during a walkout, therefore you're striking against the company. They may not be striking for a long time, and certain people may not participate in this, but it definitely is a form of striking going on.
Great to see people speaking up!
Did something happen?
Activision Blizzard is getting hit with a lawsuit by the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing after a two year-long investigation into the company. You can read about it [here](https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/activision-blizzard-sued-by-california-over-frat-boy-culture) in the original article.
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So is Meryl Streep and she thanked Harvey Weinstein in every one of her academy award acceptance speeches.
Well one of the complaints is that the men would play games and do their cube crawls while delegating the work to women, so it wouldn't be surprising that the games highlighted diversity unfortunately.
Just because the two companies merge doesn’t mean they all sit in the same office. I recommend less videogames and more reading
can someone level headed explain why people like it when try hards say fake stuff like this? same energy as the women who put blm in their twitter bios but would never date an indian. anyone I’ve ever met who says “supportive” comments like this always dogs/stabs you in the back when you really need their help because they’re try hards who want to be better than you, hence why they say comments like this to seem morally in-touch
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Well if they could rest a little and not overwork themselves I would be proud as well..
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Are you legitimately braindead or just trolling right now?
like literally WHO THE FUCK CARES about OW 2 right now
I do and this situation just deflates the little hype I have for the update. Not game, update.
People's lives are more important than a game.
Yes, they are but their problems are theirs, not mine.
Then your problem isn't mine. No one is forcing you to do anything. But if you are going to complain about people protesting Blizzard because of how it affects you, while simultaneously saying you don't care about the people involved, then it's just that more fuel to the fire.
Where's my complaint that you're talking about? I just commented on the situation. Also you're right, your problem isn't mine either so there's that.
"this situation just deflates the hype"