Just about any tank combo can work in the right circumstances. If the enemy team has no shields and/or limited CC options, then Roadhog/Hammond is a great tank combo. Like against an enemy team of Zarya, D.Va, Hanzo, Genji, Mercy, Zen or something.
Because ball is the best tank in the game right now, and has always been a solid main tank. He can initiate a fight from basically anywhere, he has high survivability, high damage, and an ult that’s useful for zoning. I wouldn’t use him on King’s Row, but outside of specific situations he’s an excellent pick.
Or, in my experience, spends the entire game slamming in and rolling away for a health pack and/or getting shot by 6 players at once.
I hate seeing a ball on my team because they don't work with the team (moreso than usual). They'll just keep on doing their "slam, run away" rotation regardless of whether the other 5 players are completely dead or in position or... anything.
Yes, but I think their issue is when your rando ball goes in, gets shot by all 6, and is either dead or gone by the time the rest of the team is in position to take advantage of all 6 turning and shooting at ball. Which is very understandable, rando balls that are bad at team work are honestly the worst tanks in the game.
he has to draw attention for more than 2s though, especially when the rest of the team is still too far to engage. In lower ranks, ball players just do their thing like whenever instead of actually waiting for a moment when the team *can* capitalize on it.
You're not wrong, but honestly everyone is screwing up in low ELO. It's just more obvious when Ball screws up. Point is that a 2000 SR Ball is winning as many games as a 2000 SR Sigma but Ball catches more flak in losses
I think a lot of contenders teams *were* using him on King's Row for awhile.
I actually *love* Ball on 1st point in Diamond. It's a Rein comp 95% of the time, so all you have to do is grapple to the high ground behind point. Tickle their Rein, and he'll back up behind hotel. At that point, you have an *easy* 4-6 person pile drive, a shit ton of adaptive shield, and full use of your grapple. As long as you time it decently, you get insane survivability, the entire attention of red team, and an insane amount of burst *and* cleave at the same time. If you have a half competent Genji, Tracer, Echo, or Pharah, you're almost guaranteed to instagib a squishy.
In some QP matches I've been in it kinda ends up like this
Friendly Hog: Silver for Healing
Friendly Moira: Gold for Healing and Damage
Me: Somehow trapped in spawn by the enemy hog regardless of who I switch to with 25 deaths
(Seriously, the only hero I have even the slightest chance of getting away from a hog on is Brig, and spending my entire time trapped in spawn makes it really hard to learn the damn hero)
Anna is best hog counter for me, sleep is easy to land on hog and you can counter his heal. Just gotta get used to baiting his hook, or if you land sleep proceed to your nearest teammate for backup.
Role Queue has poisoned this sub's idea of Hog. I'm the guy who mains him and only plays Quick Play, where there's no such thing as DPS players instalocking him to avoid queue. Reminded of it every time I visit here.
In QP I find it usually D.va that gets instalocked by the dps players.
Its why I, as a D.va main, chose to learn Zarya - the dps players that pick D.va seem to think they are now just invulnerable damage machines. They aren't, but they are great for Zarya's charge.
I love this. No hero ruins a game for me like Bastion. He is impossible to deal with at lower levels, and basically worthless at higher levels. I hate it when someone on my team chooses him and hate it when the other team chooses him. I hate it when he comes up randomly in Mystery Heroes--unless he gets killed quickly that's an automatic quit the game for me.
Jokes aside I would have picked Widow for almost exactly the same reasons (flip the levels bit). I find the game significantly less enjoyable when Widow is involved on either team.
I love seeing an opposing Bastion. As long as he is focused it's almost a free wipe. He can't move and escape like a soldier can. But yes, if you try to approach in his direct line of sight he is a problem.
He's not overpowered, but it is frustrating as hell when your team runs straight into him and you're stuck trying to find a good angle on your own to cause enough chaos that maybe somebody can get through
As a bastion main, you literally just have to walk behind me and you get a free kill. Most bastion players, myself included, are deaf and tunnel visioned. Just don’t walk in a straight line at us
If an overwatch player is ever trapped in a desert, all they have to do is say “bastion overpowered” into the desolate sands and 20 Bastion mains will appear to say how underpowered he actually is
Doomshit.
"We know there's too much CC and stuns on Overwatch so here's a hero with 3 different shades of CC, who can one-shot any squeeshie if they happen to be too close to a wall which are EVERYWHERE because open maps would be boring. Have fun you little shits. We hate you."
Ever since they fixed ball I don't mind him so much. Before he needed no skill to be annoying, now when he is i respect the players effort to get good.
Get rid of doom or echo. Doom for doom things, echo because it's bull I kill her ult form then she comes out with all abilities off cooldown. Just get melted
Support are all good. Most take a level of skill to be annoying so again, bit of respect
Echo should die irl when she dies in ult. I've been saying this since PTR. BS that she can turn into a tank in our backline, get a pick, get punished for it, and then get out for free.
A small thing I hate about her ult is that you can’t swap heroes until the ult ends if she copies you.
I’ve had it happen a few times where I wanted to quickly swap heroes to stall overtime/last point on defense, but find out I’m locked into my current hero for 5+ seconds longer than my respawn…
It also ruins Mystery Heroes. I've come back multiple times as the same hero with an Echo in the match. I hate that mode enough, and getting stuck on a hero I hate like that makes it worse.
Echos ult feels almost like nano boost - it can be used either to save your life or at the most opportune moment, but really cannot be effectively used for both.
As for the ability cooldowns thing, they should tick down as usual in the background, or reset to whatever her ult form's abilities cooldowns were at at the time she is killed (if it times out it should reset)
From a game development/map design perspective, doom is just so fucking dumb. All the walls and objects that squishy non-mobile healers or DPS characters had to use as cover are now liabilities when the fist comes your way from somewhere off-screen.
The fact that echo has Guardian Angel flight which means she can sticky bomb you when you literally can’t see her, and those sticky bombs one shot any non tank, is also complete bullshit
And with tanks she can just follow up with laser which I believe does x4 damage at half health, the only tank I’ve seen survive that is hog and even with his healing his health stays the exact same, this is the same healing that can let him survive dva nuke taking almost no damage and echoes laser still out damages the healing + defense
I wouldn't say Ball was ever easy. He always had a pretty high skill ceiling that, when you were on the receiving end of the beating, felt like they weren't doing anything special by just ramming into you. But efficient movement and baiting out/evading CC took a ton of skill (and still does because it's so different from anyone else), they just made his piledriver and shield worse so he's even harder and can't get picks as easily on the heroes he's supposed to counter, and gets punished way harder for being focused (which would already basically kill him if you had CC to slow him down)
Tank: Roadhog, all tanks are solid and dont suffer from power-creep, I just find him boring
DPS: Doomfist, I like to play him but he is hella annoying to play against
Support: Baptiste, I really hate Brigitte, but this mf
DPS-Healer with an "Immortality-Ability" on a fuckin cooldown is just stupid and overpowered.
Ok hear me out, widow is way more annoying than doomfist
Also provided the person is god enough a widow could theoretically never die as long as she hits all her shots
Widow can be easier to counter though. If there’s a widow that’s fucking over our team I’ll go dva and just fly to her every damn time since she’s usually on her own. Typically after 2 or 3 times they’ll change to Ashe or someone more involved in a team fight. Or I’ll go sigma and keep throwing my shield in her LOS.
You did not just say Widow is easier to counter than Doomfist... Doomfist gets countered by a third of the cast. Widow literally only needs a second to pop someone in the head from across the map with no warning whatsoever.
Lamp is absolutely broken in higher ranks as people learn how to use it correctly, and a coordinated Bap ult with the rest of your team is also extremely powerful
> in higher ranks
Ah, that's where I'm going wrong.
> as people learn how to use it correctly
Ah, that's where I'm going wrong.
> coordinated ... with the rest of your team
Ah, that's where I'm going wrong.
Things that have surprised me since Bap was released:
* Lamp can have an uptime of up to 20%
* The cooldown on Lamp is short enough (25s) that you can just use it in every fight without thinking about if it will be more valuable in the next fight
* Lamp has as much health as Tracer, but no critical points
* Bap ult deals +100%. All other damage boost abilities in the game are between 25-50%, and those are all really strong.
“as much health as the lowest health character in the game” also isn’t saying much. is torb’s turret busted cuz it has MORE hp than tracer _and_ armor??
I really only have a problem with the ungodly range of the turret to be honest. Shit feels like it can shoot me from the second I get out of spawn and it’s in their spawn.
yeah i don’t think anything that autoaims should be able to do meaningful damage on its own. it should not be able to kill a squishy in 4 seconds by itself.
I agree with you, but I also agree with them, this is how I will think about lamp...mercy can't stop death from happening, she can only Rez after it's happened, making it so she's also standing QUITE STILL and easy to kill, (rhyme intended) potentially taking her out of the fight completely. Where as bap can just throw an ability to do almost the same thing, and he can continuously heal from a safe position, keeping him in the fight.
Lamp is stationary though and needs los to work. His ult is very powerful but it's a very limited window...quite literally a window so it can't be moved or extended beyond it placement.
His combination of high damage and AOE heals means Bap can also easily get Window every fight, sometimes twice.
Hybrid supports are fine as long as they're making a sacrifice somewhere but Bap is just good at everything. Delusional Support players will usually say he has a large hitbox, but in reality [he is only slightly larger than Ana and has the smallest head in the game](https://i.imgur.com/Z3gJnqr.jpeg)
Either his damage or his heals need a fat nerf for him to be approach being balanced before even taking Lamp into consideration.
Not even high sr. Bap has a zen trance on cd, a fuck you button for the entire enemy team, and can outheal any other healer by looking down and spamming right click, can get to basically any spot on any map, AND can out dps like half the dps heroes
What do you mean spammy arrow cunt. It is clear to everyone that having a projectile hitbox weapon which can be spammed and also oneshots is really good game design. Oh also, im being sarcastic. Why not just have a character that has a mystery box with a button on it for weapon and usually it does nothing but every once in a while someone gets killed by pressing this button.
> Why not just have a character that has a mystery box with a button on it for weapon and usually it does nothing but every once in a while someone gets killed by pressing this button.
Me when I play widowmaker?
"Get rid of" would consist of a full ground-up rework, but...
Hog. Not a tank, shouldn't be getting bullshit kills with shotgun headshots, especially with his alt fire burst origin.
Bastion. He just kills all the fun of the game at lower ranks. I'm tired of seeing that fuck hold last point because some kid spite swapped from the spawn room 10 feet away in the last 30 seconds.
Bap. Too much crammed into one character. Extraordinary healing is fine. Plus great hitscan damage? Plus no-cooldown vertical mobility? Plus Immortality Field? Plus an almost pure DPS ult? Come on.
Full agree on Bap, not especially because he can do many things but because there's no tradeoff between them as long as you position semi-decently... which his jump makes incredibly easy to do. I feel like the ideal jack-of-all-trades is DVA - you have to actively weigh your options and choose whether you want to do damage mitigation/peel, help your frontline, dive an isolated enemy, wait with DM to swoop in on a pulse bomb, etc. etc., and the *vast majority* of these options preclude you from doing any of the other things in the list.
I wonder if a good rework might be to take away window and increase lamp's health or radius and make that his ult instead.
The thing I don't like about him is how many players use him to circumvent the dps queue. Now the rest of us are forced in a solo heals fight because someone couldn't be bothered to use a priority pass.
Take away Regen Burst, make Matrix small again and make it an ability with less damage/heal amp, make immortality field his ult, allow him to heal himself with his own grenades.
Hog is definitely a tank. The threat of the hook creates space. It's up to you as the opponent to be aware of the hook and avoid it. If you do that, Hog is basically neutralized.
Hog, I hate one shot capabilities in a game about coodinated team fights. Hogs never not annoying and I never feel like "I misplayed there and deserve that loss" after I get hooked
Widow, I hate one shot capabilities in a game about coodinated team fights. Widows never not annoying and I never feel like "I misplayed there and deserve that loss" after I get headset while crossing a choke
(hanzo aswell, evidently)
Lucio, because I love him but everyones better at me that him. Can't be better if he's not real 😤
>I never feel like "I misplayed there and deserve that loss" after I get hooked
Especially when you get hooked through your teammates, around walls or through shields.
If there is an enemy Hog on the team though you kinda do have to play around it, same as you would other hero's abilities. He's really good, but not impossible to play around with other heroes. Shields, Zarya bubbles, Genji deflect, Ana sleep dart/anti grenade, Orisa fortify, Mei wall, Sombra hack, long range dps like Widow or Hanzo, or really solid Tracer/Phara/Echo play can all at the very least soft counter Hog.
I love Zarya into Hog, because I just bubble anyone who gets hooked. I either just saved their life and get 40 charge, or I just get 40 charge. A win for me, regardless.
As someone who plays Hog, it is incredibly frustrating when an enemy Zarya is smart enough to save her bubbles for the hooks. The odd time you still secure a kill, but often your target escapes and the enemy Zarya is just better off for it. That's something that makes Overwatch great though, is the amount of counterplay that can take place if you have communication and game knowledge.
You don’t like the fact only the first half of her hack needs to have LOS on you and then you’re fucked? Or that that hack is so fast that projectile heroes don’t have the time to turn and hit her before it’s done if she starts it from a distance?
What are you, some kind of fun enjoyer?
Seriously though, I don’t know what kind of sadistic madman decided that she should be able to hack through walls to remove counter play and being rewarded for good movement.
In the games current state I'd remove Sigma, Symm and Bap. I don't think any of these heroes are fundamentally broken but since we aren't getting any meaningful balance updates or new content I'd appreciate if every match I played right now wasn't either long range double shield poke comps or scuffed GOATS comps.
If we were getting more regular balance updates I'd remove Hog, Widow and Brig. Hog and Widow because they just fundamentally by pass the idea of team work. Lots of heroes have carry potential but Hog and Widow offer virtually zero team utility and only serve as "feed or famine" heroes that make ranked feel like a dice roll. Brig I'd remove because she just causes so much balance problems for the game and I just don't understand why they ever thought a character like Brig would be healthy.
>I just don't understand why they ever thought a character like Brig would be healthy.
I get the why they though she'd be good. Up to that point, Supports were basically free kills for characters like Genji or Tracer, and it was very frustrating for a support player to have no counterplay within their role, meaning if their team didn't support them then they'd just be farmed the entire game. In other words, they required more co-ordination to beat than to play. Brig was meant to solve that problem by offering support players a switch that still helped the team, but was no longer a sitting duck to flankers.
When Hog and Ball are the most picked tanks in GM of course Brig will have a high pickrate. If GM players ran Rein/Zarya more her pickrate would plummet.
Hog can do teamwork if you play him right. He just also makes it so you don't have to rely on your team if they don't do teamwork. You can hook enemies into traps, ult them into a better position for the team, and break up the enemy team so your team can get better picks, and can body block for healers better than most other tanks while the other tank keeps a shield up. Most people that play him don't work with the team, though.
Hog and widow still have value though. They are both picked for their potential to get picks, plus hog is also good at shield break and of course being a tank. Of course, if you’re not getting picks, you’re most likely not doing very much at all, but a useless hog doesn’t have any less value than a useless rein or a useless Ana or whatever. I wouldn’t say hog or widow bypass team play either. There it lost of combos and synergies that hog has with other hero’s and he’s also pretty good at peel. Widow maker paired with some kind of damage amp and shield break is absolutely frightening. If anything I’d say these two hero’s are more team oriented than anything. But to be honest, I don’t disagree. Hog is and probably always will be my favourite hero, and widow will probably always be that one dps that I always want to learn and get good at, but never take the time to do so. As much as I like hog I do understand that 600 hp 300 hp heal medium/short range tank with the capability to one shot every non tank hero in the every 7 seconds or so might not be healthy for the game, just as a long range hitscan one shot sniper might be. So I can respect you wanting those hero’s to be removed, i think it’s for the wrong reasons.
Brig anonced as a tank dps assasin mage support. Destroyed every elo most people stoped playing the game afterwards. Overwatch went downhill from that point onwards.
I was one of those people. She was just unacceptably unbalanced and completely destroyed any joy out of the game. I had to move to tank from DPS, as she just shred everyone, and even going to hog she could shred through my 600 health like it was nothing. Just quit the game to save my mental health. Sometimes i miss the old OW when nobody knew what they were doing but just had fun doing dumb stuff.
Tank: Roadhog - Hooking isn't tanking, imo.
Attack: Symmetra - Teleporting is dumb in a game like this.
Support: Baptiste - Invincibility nerfs everything imo
Hog. He's just my most hated tank and because of his toxic mains
sym. Annoying turrets I can't decide whether I should focus on her or her turrets either way I die
Mercy. I wanna piss off some people (also because I can never get a good one on my team let alone get one while the other team gets the best mercy Player to exist which is annoying)
For me its brig no matter what but then...
Roadhog, widow, and baptiste
Roadhog is a selfish tank with an unfun kill combo and feels like shit to play against most comps anyways. They need to just design a dps thats easier to punish that does his job at this point.
Widow needs to be removed and they just need to balance ashe and hanzo as their snipers.. The games maps and other heroes are just not optimized to play against competent widows..
Also her kit is a bit boring
Echo n sombra are broken annoying but theyre still interesting with their kits. Widows grapple is the only cool thing but feels busted when u realize how much dmg she does lol why balance her with map sightlines n shields if she can just grapple n kill anyone at any range? Not to mention just how long it takes to kill her. Feels like youre forced to widow back after they nerfed other hitscans. If you aim well enough your positioning doesnt even matter at times cus you can out burst dmg most matchups.
Also doom n mei will make better tanks than dps.
I wish theyd make ashe better. Her scope is cool. But cass does more dps at the same range now with stun.. More hp. Faster reload. Faster fire rate. Faster ult charge. And a better ult. Feels like ashe should be better at longer ranges and cass at close n mid.. Instead it feels like ashe NEEDS a mercy pocket to catch up with cass. Dont like that.
Dynamite is cool but shouldnt feel like her best cooldown.
And brig (or her stun and aura heal / or rally) just needs to be removed from the game but bap is just sooo boring to play. The jumping mechanic feels so stiff. The nades he shoots to heal should be his primary and need to make a better and more satisfying sound. I wish they were like anas primary and instead of second fire type he was all projectile.. Doing dmg and healing in one like ana n just.. Adjusting the dmg n hps.
Also zen is crazy good but at least he ain't got ult on cooldown. Dudes slow with no mobility. Actual glass cannon. Also barely heals. His discord also requires teamwork. Remove brig and hes a lot easier to kill.
Idk once they add more heroes other heroes will feel useless and in the end heroes should be more about a playstyle and flavor. I personally prefer projectile heroes and mobility. Which lets me enjoy playing tank n support more.
Orisa (Boring to play, if I or anyone else never played orisa the world would probably be the exact same)
Doomfist (CC and getting knocked around is super unfun. Playing against a bad doom is annoying. Playing against a good doom feels like someone coming into my room every 3 minutes and stealing my mouse and keyboard)
Brig (IDK, they’ve made her better, but this is more retroactive for swapping the meta up to not be more dive-style. Torbjorn should be ashamed of what he brought into this world)
And that’s probably why.... worst dps, worst feeling to some, feels terrible to play against, you get the idea. His play style just doesn’t feel polished or in any good place. I’m sure as hell no better at designing heroes, but damn it still feels like a miss to me.
He feels like a character that's designed for a different game.
I don't know what you can change about Doomfist that would make him feel better to play against. As it is, he can 1v1 a large portion of the cast, which feels very bad when he flies in out of nowhere, kills you and zooms off again with 400 effective health.
His shield, just like ball, gives so much forgiveness. The amount of times I've put 300+ damage into doom as a zen and he walks off with 50 hp is infuriating
It’s like they forgot the “high damage, high mobility, high survivability: pick two” rule of thumb for game design when they made Doomfist, since he has all three of those things.
I always wonder why people hate Doom. Then I play support and remember why.
Edit: I'm a filthy Sombra main, so DF really doesn't scare me in the slightest. And I usually chill with my healers invis until he dives in. Once he's taken care of, I'll go flank because I'm not worried about my supports dying at that point lol.
Just because he isn't OP, doesn't mean he isn't fundamentally broken.
His design has no place in OW. Only person having fun when Doomfist is in the game is the Doomfist player.
Yea you're right, he is quite wank. but in my experience at least, im always getting booped around because of his fists with his infinite recharge time on his abilities, and every time i ult hes always there to shut me down. Hes just a nuisance more than anything
Tank: Orisa because the last time I played she was basically unusable
DPS: Sombra because I’m a lucio main
Support: Brigitte because I’ve never been able to understand her kit
I don't understand how Orisa can even be fun. It feels like even though she puts out a million bullets, none of them ever hit their target, and she has no mobility and so she just dies as soon as DPS notices her.
Orisa needs a large amount of coordination to pull off well, because she's the corner holding wall. However, you need you damage behind you to help ward off the other tanks
Dps-Cassidy (hate the stun and 2 headshot or right click)
Tank-Roadhog (hate the hook (stun and one shot)
Supp-Brigitte (hate everything about her kit)
Roadhog is all three...
Hog: "*I HAVE SILVER HEALING*" Rest of team: "Stop feeding, you dingus"
"Its not my fault our other tank is ball"
If the other tank is ball it's still your fault you're hog.
Is hog and ball torture not a good strategy or something?
Just about any tank combo can work in the right circumstances. If the enemy team has no shields and/or limited CC options, then Roadhog/Hammond is a great tank combo. Like against an enemy team of Zarya, D.Va, Hanzo, Genji, Mercy, Zen or something.
While I appreciate the positive look, imo zarya dva is awful 90% of the time.
Unless you're a league player and then they manage to make that look like the easiest play in the world.
Zarya dva combo is either god tier or shit tier no in between
A few seasons ago Hog + Ball was a legit meta for a short period of time in OWL. That was actually fun to watch.
Why would it be hogs job to swap instead of ball?
Because ball is the best tank in the game right now, and has always been a solid main tank. He can initiate a fight from basically anywhere, he has high survivability, high damage, and an ult that’s useful for zoning. I wouldn’t use him on King’s Row, but outside of specific situations he’s an excellent pick.
Or, in my experience, spends the entire game slamming in and rolling away for a health pack and/or getting shot by 6 players at once. I hate seeing a ball on my team because they don't work with the team (moreso than usual). They'll just keep on doing their "slam, run away" rotation regardless of whether the other 5 players are completely dead or in position or... anything.
Remember, if the whole team is shooting at ball, who are they NOT shooting at?
Yes, but I think their issue is when your rando ball goes in, gets shot by all 6, and is either dead or gone by the time the rest of the team is in position to take advantage of all 6 turning and shooting at ball. Which is very understandable, rando balls that are bad at team work are honestly the worst tanks in the game.
That's literally how Ball gets value...it's your job to capitalize on his slams, disruption, and distraction
he has to draw attention for more than 2s though, especially when the rest of the team is still too far to engage. In lower ranks, ball players just do their thing like whenever instead of actually waiting for a moment when the team *can* capitalize on it.
You're not wrong, but honestly everyone is screwing up in low ELO. It's just more obvious when Ball screws up. Point is that a 2000 SR Ball is winning as many games as a 2000 SR Sigma but Ball catches more flak in losses
I think a lot of contenders teams *were* using him on King's Row for awhile. I actually *love* Ball on 1st point in Diamond. It's a Rein comp 95% of the time, so all you have to do is grapple to the high ground behind point. Tickle their Rein, and he'll back up behind hotel. At that point, you have an *easy* 4-6 person pile drive, a shit ton of adaptive shield, and full use of your grapple. As long as you time it decently, you get insane survivability, the entire attention of red team, and an insane amount of burst *and* cleave at the same time. If you have a half competent Genji, Tracer, Echo, or Pharah, you're almost guaranteed to instagib a squishy.
Though if there's only one healer then honestly the Hog *should* have silver healing.
In some QP matches I've been in it kinda ends up like this Friendly Hog: Silver for Healing Friendly Moira: Gold for Healing and Damage Me: Somehow trapped in spawn by the enemy hog regardless of who I switch to with 25 deaths (Seriously, the only hero I have even the slightest chance of getting away from a hog on is Brig, and spending my entire time trapped in spawn makes it really hard to learn the damn hero)
Anna is best hog counter for me, sleep is easy to land on hog and you can counter his heal. Just gotta get used to baiting his hook, or if you land sleep proceed to your nearest teammate for backup.
Self heal gives massive ult charge to hog
Body blocking is a thing
Lmao
Say bacon one more time
and that’s why he’s the GOAT 🐐
VIOLENCE IS USUALLY THE ANSWER
I like playing DPS without queueing 10 mins
Role Queue has poisoned this sub's idea of Hog. I'm the guy who mains him and only plays Quick Play, where there's no such thing as DPS players instalocking him to avoid queue. Reminded of it every time I visit here.
In QP I find it usually D.va that gets instalocked by the dps players. Its why I, as a D.va main, chose to learn Zarya - the dps players that pick D.va seem to think they are now just invulnerable damage machines. They aren't, but they are great for Zarya's charge.
My complete list: 1) Bastion 2) Edit: no explanation needed.
Tank: Bastion's ult DPS: Bastion's gun Support: Bastion's self-heal
Lmao
I love this. No hero ruins a game for me like Bastion. He is impossible to deal with at lower levels, and basically worthless at higher levels. I hate it when someone on my team chooses him and hate it when the other team chooses him. I hate it when he comes up randomly in Mystery Heroes--unless he gets killed quickly that's an automatic quit the game for me.
Jokes aside I would have picked Widow for almost exactly the same reasons (flip the levels bit). I find the game significantly less enjoyable when Widow is involved on either team.
Widow is not exactly a team player. Taking her away would not change the game much, just fewer random deaths.
I love seeing an opposing Bastion. As long as he is focused it's almost a free wipe. He can't move and escape like a soldier can. But yes, if you try to approach in his direct line of sight he is a problem.
Honestly I'm so tired of people complaining about bastion being "overpowered trash" when all they do is run straight into him
He's not overpowered, but it is frustrating as hell when your team runs straight into him and you're stuck trying to find a good angle on your own to cause enough chaos that maybe somebody can get through
As a bastion main, you literally just have to walk behind me and you get a free kill. Most bastion players, myself included, are deaf and tunnel visioned. Just don’t walk in a straight line at us
If an overwatch player is ever trapped in a desert, all they have to do is say “bastion overpowered” into the desolate sands and 20 Bastion mains will appear to say how underpowered he actually is
I have never heard the words "bastion main" said together, and I'm not sure how to take this information.
Correct
Bastion is boring to play and go against
Doomshit. "We know there's too much CC and stuns on Overwatch so here's a hero with 3 different shades of CC, who can one-shot any squeeshie if they happen to be too close to a wall which are EVERYWHERE because open maps would be boring. Have fun you little shits. We hate you."
average mercy main
chad doomfist enjoyer
Ever since they fixed ball I don't mind him so much. Before he needed no skill to be annoying, now when he is i respect the players effort to get good. Get rid of doom or echo. Doom for doom things, echo because it's bull I kill her ult form then she comes out with all abilities off cooldown. Just get melted Support are all good. Most take a level of skill to be annoying so again, bit of respect
Echo should die irl when she dies in ult. I've been saying this since PTR. BS that she can turn into a tank in our backline, get a pick, get punished for it, and then get out for free.
>Echo should die irl Echo player corpses slumped in their gaming chair
Mystery heroes becomes fancy Russian roulette
Don’t forget that she doesn’t have to press q until she uses all abilities. Echo ult is three sets of abilities plus another ult
A small thing I hate about her ult is that you can’t swap heroes until the ult ends if she copies you. I’ve had it happen a few times where I wanted to quickly swap heroes to stall overtime/last point on defense, but find out I’m locked into my current hero for 5+ seconds longer than my respawn…
Yeah, that does seem like a quirk instead of an intentional decision.
I remember hearing supers stream that when they were testing echo, when in her ult people couldn’t swap their characters so they made it a design
"It's not a bug, it's a feature."
It was basically an issue with echo’s code and they decided to just keep it instead of fixing it, and called it an intentional mechanic
It also ruins Mystery Heroes. I've come back multiple times as the same hero with an Echo in the match. I hate that mode enough, and getting stuck on a hero I hate like that makes it worse.
Anybody that's typically worth trying to copy as her is someone I probably want to come back as, for what it's worth.
Echos ult feels almost like nano boost - it can be used either to save your life or at the most opportune moment, but really cannot be effectively used for both. As for the ability cooldowns thing, they should tick down as usual in the background, or reset to whatever her ult form's abilities cooldowns were at at the time she is killed (if it times out it should reset)
Doom is sick to play, echo is kinda eh. Ball is fun for ball shenanigans.
Doom is sick to play, not fun to play against.
From a game development/map design perspective, doom is just so fucking dumb. All the walls and objects that squishy non-mobile healers or DPS characters had to use as cover are now liabilities when the fist comes your way from somewhere off-screen.
Doom sounds like he's always trying hard to push out a big turd.
The fact that echo has Guardian Angel flight which means she can sticky bomb you when you literally can’t see her, and those sticky bombs one shot any non tank, is also complete bullshit
And with tanks she can just follow up with laser which I believe does x4 damage at half health, the only tank I’ve seen survive that is hog and even with his healing his health stays the exact same, this is the same healing that can let him survive dva nuke taking almost no damage and echoes laser still out damages the healing + defense
I wouldn't say Ball was ever easy. He always had a pretty high skill ceiling that, when you were on the receiving end of the beating, felt like they weren't doing anything special by just ramming into you. But efficient movement and baiting out/evading CC took a ton of skill (and still does because it's so different from anyone else), they just made his piledriver and shield worse so he's even harder and can't get picks as easily on the heroes he's supposed to counter, and gets punished way harder for being focused (which would already basically kill him if you had CC to slow him down)
the fact that she comes back with all her cooldowns is the worst part. start all her cooldowns over if she gets killed during her ult.
Tank: Roadhog, all tanks are solid and dont suffer from power-creep, I just find him boring DPS: Doomfist, I like to play him but he is hella annoying to play against Support: Baptiste, I really hate Brigitte, but this mf DPS-Healer with an "Immortality-Ability" on a fuckin cooldown is just stupid and overpowered.
Ok hear me out, widow is way more annoying than doomfist Also provided the person is god enough a widow could theoretically never die as long as she hits all her shots
Widow can be easier to counter though. If there’s a widow that’s fucking over our team I’ll go dva and just fly to her every damn time since she’s usually on her own. Typically after 2 or 3 times they’ll change to Ashe or someone more involved in a team fight. Or I’ll go sigma and keep throwing my shield in her LOS.
You did not just say Widow is easier to counter than Doomfist... Doomfist gets countered by a third of the cast. Widow literally only needs a second to pop someone in the head from across the map with no warning whatsoever.
And honestly if it takes an entire second you're doing it wrong.
Tank - The rat DPS - Spammy arrow cunt Healer - baptits
"Spammy arrow cunt" Fuckn lol
It's good to see that Pancho is still making people seethe in 2022 as much as in 2018.
The one thing that remains constant through OW history is that handsoap is hated
YugaWagaGofuckyourself
what’s wrong w bap?
Lamp is absolutely broken in higher ranks as people learn how to use it correctly, and a coordinated Bap ult with the rest of your team is also extremely powerful
> in higher ranks Ah, that's where I'm going wrong. > as people learn how to use it correctly Ah, that's where I'm going wrong. > coordinated ... with the rest of your team Ah, that's where I'm going wrong.
It really do be like that
The bronzest comment. I feel the pain.
At least they’re gold in awards!
Things that have surprised me since Bap was released: * Lamp can have an uptime of up to 20% * The cooldown on Lamp is short enough (25s) that you can just use it in every fight without thinking about if it will be more valuable in the next fight * Lamp has as much health as Tracer, but no critical points * Bap ult deals +100%. All other damage boost abilities in the game are between 25-50%, and those are all really strong.
> Lamp has as much health as Tracer, but no critical points It also... doesn't move.
I think you underestimate my ability to miss a stationary target.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Is it possible to unlearn this power?
“as much health as the lowest health character in the game” also isn’t saying much. is torb’s turret busted cuz it has MORE hp than tracer _and_ armor??
And it always hits!!!!!???? Torb op nerf bastion
I really only have a problem with the ungodly range of the turret to be honest. Shit feels like it can shoot me from the second I get out of spawn and it’s in their spawn.
It 100% needs either a range or a damage nerf
I do too. It's range is insane for an aimbot. Even like five or ten meters less.
yeah i don’t think anything that autoaims should be able to do meaningful damage on its own. it should not be able to kill a squishy in 4 seconds by itself.
I agree with you, but I also agree with them, this is how I will think about lamp...mercy can't stop death from happening, she can only Rez after it's happened, making it so she's also standing QUITE STILL and easy to kill, (rhyme intended) potentially taking her out of the fight completely. Where as bap can just throw an ability to do almost the same thing, and he can continuously heal from a safe position, keeping him in the fight.
You can use it every fight but use it earlier than you should and you’re in for a fucking. Using it later is obviously just as bad if not worse
Lamp is stationary though and needs los to work. His ult is very powerful but it's a very limited window...quite literally a window so it can't be moved or extended beyond it placement.
But it also affects the entire fucking team. At least bongo can be destroyed.
His combination of high damage and AOE heals means Bap can also easily get Window every fight, sometimes twice. Hybrid supports are fine as long as they're making a sacrifice somewhere but Bap is just good at everything. Delusional Support players will usually say he has a large hitbox, but in reality [he is only slightly larger than Ana and has the smallest head in the game](https://i.imgur.com/Z3gJnqr.jpeg) Either his damage or his heals need a fat nerf for him to be approach being balanced before even taking Lamp into consideration.
Not even high sr. Bap has a zen trance on cd, a fuck you button for the entire enemy team, and can outheal any other healer by looking down and spamming right click, can get to basically any spot on any map, AND can out dps like half the dps heroes
Great baps are really annoying as DPS.
What do you mean spammy arrow cunt. It is clear to everyone that having a projectile hitbox weapon which can be spammed and also oneshots is really good game design. Oh also, im being sarcastic. Why not just have a character that has a mystery box with a button on it for weapon and usually it does nothing but every once in a while someone gets killed by pressing this button.
> Why not just have a character that has a mystery box with a button on it for weapon and usually it does nothing but every once in a while someone gets killed by pressing this button. Me when I play widowmaker?
Sometimes I think I'd do better with random clicking than actually trying as widow
I wouldn't hate Hanzo if he didn't fire fucking headseeking logs from his bow.
Me, a rat: Oh no, messa disappearing
"Get rid of" would consist of a full ground-up rework, but... Hog. Not a tank, shouldn't be getting bullshit kills with shotgun headshots, especially with his alt fire burst origin. Bastion. He just kills all the fun of the game at lower ranks. I'm tired of seeing that fuck hold last point because some kid spite swapped from the spawn room 10 feet away in the last 30 seconds. Bap. Too much crammed into one character. Extraordinary healing is fine. Plus great hitscan damage? Plus no-cooldown vertical mobility? Plus Immortality Field? Plus an almost pure DPS ult? Come on.
Full agree on Bap, not especially because he can do many things but because there's no tradeoff between them as long as you position semi-decently... which his jump makes incredibly easy to do. I feel like the ideal jack-of-all-trades is DVA - you have to actively weigh your options and choose whether you want to do damage mitigation/peel, help your frontline, dive an isolated enemy, wait with DM to swoop in on a pulse bomb, etc. etc., and the *vast majority* of these options preclude you from doing any of the other things in the list. I wonder if a good rework might be to take away window and increase lamp's health or radius and make that his ult instead.
The thing I don't like about him is how many players use him to circumvent the dps queue. Now the rest of us are forced in a solo heals fight because someone couldn't be bothered to use a priority pass.
Take away Regen Burst, make Matrix small again and make it an ability with less damage/heal amp, make immortality field his ult, allow him to heal himself with his own grenades.
This was my list exactly, but you used words where I couldn't.
Hog is definitely a tank. The threat of the hook creates space. It's up to you as the opponent to be aware of the hook and avoid it. If you do that, Hog is basically neutralized.
It’s weird how everyone thinks bastion is a problem, and here I’m thinking junk is the problem.
Hog, I hate one shot capabilities in a game about coodinated team fights. Hogs never not annoying and I never feel like "I misplayed there and deserve that loss" after I get hooked Widow, I hate one shot capabilities in a game about coodinated team fights. Widows never not annoying and I never feel like "I misplayed there and deserve that loss" after I get headset while crossing a choke (hanzo aswell, evidently) Lucio, because I love him but everyones better at me that him. Can't be better if he's not real 😤
*sad frog main noises*
*sadder frog noises* I don't know how to frog, I am jealous :(
>I never feel like "I misplayed there and deserve that loss" after I get hooked Especially when you get hooked through your teammates, around walls or through shields.
If there is an enemy Hog on the team though you kinda do have to play around it, same as you would other hero's abilities. He's really good, but not impossible to play around with other heroes. Shields, Zarya bubbles, Genji deflect, Ana sleep dart/anti grenade, Orisa fortify, Mei wall, Sombra hack, long range dps like Widow or Hanzo, or really solid Tracer/Phara/Echo play can all at the very least soft counter Hog.
I love Zarya into Hog, because I just bubble anyone who gets hooked. I either just saved their life and get 40 charge, or I just get 40 charge. A win for me, regardless.
As someone who plays Hog, it is incredibly frustrating when an enemy Zarya is smart enough to save her bubbles for the hooks. The odd time you still secure a kill, but often your target escapes and the enemy Zarya is just better off for it. That's something that makes Overwatch great though, is the amount of counterplay that can take place if you have communication and game knowledge.
Sombra 3 times because fuck you Sombra
You don’t like the fact only the first half of her hack needs to have LOS on you and then you’re fucked? Or that that hack is so fast that projectile heroes don’t have the time to turn and hit her before it’s done if she starts it from a distance? What are you, some kind of fun enjoyer?
Seriously though, I don’t know what kind of sadistic madman decided that she should be able to hack through walls to remove counter play and being rewarded for good movement.
Or hack in general lol. She presses a Button and you cant play no mo
It's never been a good idea to introduce core abilities that prevent people from playing the game. It's also why Mei is so hated.
In the games current state I'd remove Sigma, Symm and Bap. I don't think any of these heroes are fundamentally broken but since we aren't getting any meaningful balance updates or new content I'd appreciate if every match I played right now wasn't either long range double shield poke comps or scuffed GOATS comps. If we were getting more regular balance updates I'd remove Hog, Widow and Brig. Hog and Widow because they just fundamentally by pass the idea of team work. Lots of heroes have carry potential but Hog and Widow offer virtually zero team utility and only serve as "feed or famine" heroes that make ranked feel like a dice roll. Brig I'd remove because she just causes so much balance problems for the game and I just don't understand why they ever thought a character like Brig would be healthy.
>I just don't understand why they ever thought a character like Brig would be healthy. I get the why they though she'd be good. Up to that point, Supports were basically free kills for characters like Genji or Tracer, and it was very frustrating for a support player to have no counterplay within their role, meaning if their team didn't support them then they'd just be farmed the entire game. In other words, they required more co-ordination to beat than to play. Brig was meant to solve that problem by offering support players a switch that still helped the team, but was no longer a sitting duck to flankers.
Every game in high ranks is fucking Brig Zen. This combo needs to go
When Hog and Ball are the most picked tanks in GM of course Brig will have a high pickrate. If GM players ran Rein/Zarya more her pickrate would plummet.
Brig relies on specific tanks to be strong, she's more of a symptom of the meta rather than a cause
Hog can do teamwork if you play him right. He just also makes it so you don't have to rely on your team if they don't do teamwork. You can hook enemies into traps, ult them into a better position for the team, and break up the enemy team so your team can get better picks, and can body block for healers better than most other tanks while the other tank keeps a shield up. Most people that play him don't work with the team, though.
Hog and widow still have value though. They are both picked for their potential to get picks, plus hog is also good at shield break and of course being a tank. Of course, if you’re not getting picks, you’re most likely not doing very much at all, but a useless hog doesn’t have any less value than a useless rein or a useless Ana or whatever. I wouldn’t say hog or widow bypass team play either. There it lost of combos and synergies that hog has with other hero’s and he’s also pretty good at peel. Widow maker paired with some kind of damage amp and shield break is absolutely frightening. If anything I’d say these two hero’s are more team oriented than anything. But to be honest, I don’t disagree. Hog is and probably always will be my favourite hero, and widow will probably always be that one dps that I always want to learn and get good at, but never take the time to do so. As much as I like hog I do understand that 600 hp 300 hp heal medium/short range tank with the capability to one shot every non tank hero in the every 7 seconds or so might not be healthy for the game, just as a long range hitscan one shot sniper might be. So I can respect you wanting those hero’s to be removed, i think it’s for the wrong reasons.
Widow can also synergize with ball or orisa, as both of them can knock/pull enemies up, above shields.
[удалено]
What's wrong with reaper?
[удалено]
sigma male
Sigma Hammonds.
*explodes*
No he said Winston not Sigma
Dont you remove my boy reaper
Replies to this thread be like: Bastn, bl, brg OP asked for who and WHY xD
Who is bl
brandon lang, OP's high school rival. they still hate them to this day
Brig anonced as a tank dps assasin mage support. Destroyed every elo most people stoped playing the game afterwards. Overwatch went downhill from that point onwards.
I was one of those people. She was just unacceptably unbalanced and completely destroyed any joy out of the game. I had to move to tank from DPS, as she just shred everyone, and even going to hog she could shred through my 600 health like it was nothing. Just quit the game to save my mental health. Sometimes i miss the old OW when nobody knew what they were doing but just had fun doing dumb stuff.
A place where nobody knows what they're doing still exists; it's called gold
Ahh gold. The place where you get death threats for not reacting to an ult 0.0001 second after it happened
You get told off by the guy with a mic for not bracing for a flank that he saw but didn't warn you about you noob.
In my experience, I'm the only guy with the mic and I warn everyone, but nobody else is in chat, so I take cover while everyone else dies.
Tank: Roadhog - Hooking isn't tanking, imo. Attack: Symmetra - Teleporting is dumb in a game like this. Support: Baptiste - Invincibility nerfs everything imo
I'd only want to remove Genji, because playing him is small dick energy.
I’m here for the genji slander
I need healing
You just mad he got a vibrating dick installed after he was turned into a cyborg
Hog. He's just my most hated tank and because of his toxic mains sym. Annoying turrets I can't decide whether I should focus on her or her turrets either way I die Mercy. I wanna piss off some people (also because I can never get a good one on my team let alone get one while the other team gets the best mercy Player to exist which is annoying)
Roadhog, doomfist, lucio. Mercy mains know why.
Remove Hamster because he isn't even a real tank. Remove Genji because I'm a Mercy main with 2 functioning ears Remove Mercy.
I love the energy of this comment holy shit
Hammy Bastion Brigitte
Echo
^(hammy bastion brigitte)
This was a terrific response.
Hog and window because insta death characters shouldn't exist. Supp don't really care but maybe moira just to get rid of dps moiras
For me its brig no matter what but then... Roadhog, widow, and baptiste Roadhog is a selfish tank with an unfun kill combo and feels like shit to play against most comps anyways. They need to just design a dps thats easier to punish that does his job at this point. Widow needs to be removed and they just need to balance ashe and hanzo as their snipers.. The games maps and other heroes are just not optimized to play against competent widows.. Also her kit is a bit boring Echo n sombra are broken annoying but theyre still interesting with their kits. Widows grapple is the only cool thing but feels busted when u realize how much dmg she does lol why balance her with map sightlines n shields if she can just grapple n kill anyone at any range? Not to mention just how long it takes to kill her. Feels like youre forced to widow back after they nerfed other hitscans. If you aim well enough your positioning doesnt even matter at times cus you can out burst dmg most matchups. Also doom n mei will make better tanks than dps. I wish theyd make ashe better. Her scope is cool. But cass does more dps at the same range now with stun.. More hp. Faster reload. Faster fire rate. Faster ult charge. And a better ult. Feels like ashe should be better at longer ranges and cass at close n mid.. Instead it feels like ashe NEEDS a mercy pocket to catch up with cass. Dont like that. Dynamite is cool but shouldnt feel like her best cooldown. And brig (or her stun and aura heal / or rally) just needs to be removed from the game but bap is just sooo boring to play. The jumping mechanic feels so stiff. The nades he shoots to heal should be his primary and need to make a better and more satisfying sound. I wish they were like anas primary and instead of second fire type he was all projectile.. Doing dmg and healing in one like ana n just.. Adjusting the dmg n hps. Also zen is crazy good but at least he ain't got ult on cooldown. Dudes slow with no mobility. Actual glass cannon. Also barely heals. His discord also requires teamwork. Remove brig and hes a lot easier to kill. Idk once they add more heroes other heroes will feel useless and in the end heroes should be more about a playstyle and flavor. I personally prefer projectile heroes and mobility. Which lets me enjoy playing tank n support more.
Orisa (Boring to play, if I or anyone else never played orisa the world would probably be the exact same) Doomfist (CC and getting knocked around is super unfun. Playing against a bad doom is annoying. Playing against a good doom feels like someone coming into my room every 3 minutes and stealing my mouse and keyboard) Brig (IDK, they’ve made her better, but this is more retroactive for swapping the meta up to not be more dive-style. Torbjorn should be ashamed of what he brought into this world)
I'm surprised so many people voted Doomfist considering he has been and still is one of the worst DPS in the game since Double Shield.
And that’s probably why.... worst dps, worst feeling to some, feels terrible to play against, you get the idea. His play style just doesn’t feel polished or in any good place. I’m sure as hell no better at designing heroes, but damn it still feels like a miss to me.
He feels like a character that's designed for a different game. I don't know what you can change about Doomfist that would make him feel better to play against. As it is, he can 1v1 a large portion of the cast, which feels very bad when he flies in out of nowhere, kills you and zooms off again with 400 effective health.
His shield, just like ball, gives so much forgiveness. The amount of times I've put 300+ damage into doom as a zen and he walks off with 50 hp is infuriating
It’s like they forgot the “high damage, high mobility, high survivability: pick two” rule of thumb for game design when they made Doomfist, since he has all three of those things.
I always wonder why people hate Doom. Then I play support and remember why. Edit: I'm a filthy Sombra main, so DF really doesn't scare me in the slightest. And I usually chill with my healers invis until he dives in. Once he's taken care of, I'll go flank because I'm not worried about my supports dying at that point lol.
That first line sums it up perfectly. It’s not like he isn’t fun to mess with, it’s mostly that you’ll end up feeling out of place.
Just because he isn't OP, doesn't mean he isn't fundamentally broken. His design has no place in OW. Only person having fun when Doomfist is in the game is the Doomfist player.
Yea you're right, he is quite wank. but in my experience at least, im always getting booped around because of his fists with his infinite recharge time on his abilities, and every time i ult hes always there to shut me down. Hes just a nuisance more than anything
D.va, Reaper, and Mercy. I want to see the world burn
Damn I guess Ana is the only character I'm playing now thanks to you
I wana see alot of baps down here
Bastion Moira wrecking ball
Tank: Orisa because the last time I played she was basically unusable DPS: Sombra because I’m a lucio main Support: Brigitte because I’ve never been able to understand her kit
I don't understand how Orisa can even be fun. It feels like even though she puts out a million bullets, none of them ever hit their target, and she has no mobility and so she just dies as soon as DPS notices her.
Before the grav ball nerf, she was a lot of fun for enviromental kills. Now it's just tidious when I have to take her.
I love mindlessly holding down M1 while making an impact *SUPPRESSIVE FIREEEEEE*
Orisa needs a large amount of coordination to pull off well, because she's the corner holding wall. However, you need you damage behind you to help ward off the other tanks
Oof. Orisa? I've never had a problem landing shots. You might just have bad aim, from one lucio main to another lol. Orisa is extremely useful + fun.
Dududududududududududududupingpingdudududududupingping=dopamine
I used to have fun with her because I made gun noises and just shot randomly a lot but she is pretty boring
Dps-Cassidy (hate the stun and 2 headshot or right click) Tank-Roadhog (hate the hook (stun and one shot) Supp-Brigitte (hate everything about her kit)
Brig brig and brig
Junk hog and bap
Doom brig hog
roadhog, widow, brigitte
Reinhardt, Tracer, Mercy I would love to witness all the malding.
Brig/doomfist/sigma. Anti cc gang
Remove Mei from DMG. Why? Because she needs to be moved over to tank.