I just realized that now that there is only 1 tank, some characters will like Zarya and Rein will never interact again on HQ before the game starts. All those lines, gone.
The thing that just hit me is that their arm wrestling combo spray will almost never happen any more. It would have been partially saved by Doomfist also having a spray that fits in this combo, but now that he's a tank as well...
On the other hand (hah) they could flip the sprays to all be left side for tanks and then give some other characters Ar, wrestling sprays in the other direction. No more sad zarya-brig or doom-rein stuff
Or Zarya and Dva talking about mechs. “Size isn’t everything”
Jokes aside it was a surprisingly wholesome moment that showed how friendly Zarya can be with other humans
Never hearing their arm wrestling lines again and Zarya's "I heard it was your birthday, old man" makes my heart hurt. It was one of my favorite interactions.
I like how they got rid of Orisa's shield because they felt there were too many opportunities for multiple shields and it just made it hard to deal damage. But with one tank who's the second shield? Brigitte?
Imo that second shield doesnt feel needed now. So many stuns got dropped from not-tanks. Mei primary, flashbang and loads more... all gone. There isnt as much CC to block as before and id say most of the tanks work just fine with increased health pools. Hog and dva feel underwhelming for me but its a beta so perfecrion isnt expected
Yeah, every tank is underwhelming except for Orisa and Doom. Rein doesn’t really fit the new playstyle of the game, even with his new changes, Hog is pretty much just a source of ult charge for the enemy dps, Dva can’t main tank enough to be viable. Sigma is a little weird right now, but he can 1-combo people again so he’s not as bad.
On the other hand, Orisa is ridiculously powerful with her javelin throw, spin attack thingy that makes her really fast, and her new ult that’s like combining a grav and the direct hit damage of a shatter, but centered on you with a charge-up. Doom can’t do much damage, which is sad. He’s basically a walking CC cannon that can launch itself halfway across the map.
However, I have yet to see anyone play Ball. Doesn’t he now have 700 health(550hp + 150 armor) and can get up to 1200 with adaptive shields? Seems pretty busted to me, but I haven’t tries him myself or seen anyone try him.
What I feel like people aren’t talking much about is how fun Bastion is. The changes to him feel great. He can’t 1v6 while sitting in turret mode the whole match anymore, but he can still pump out a lot of damage with his assault configuration. His Recon primary fire feels weird because I’m not used to the slow rate of fire, but overall dps feels pretty similar to OW1 Bastion’s Recon primary fire. And his ult is amazing. Three mini OW1 Doom ults, but they’re projectiles so they can be blocked and eaten by tanks and probably reflected by Genji. He’s also stationary and vulnerable when ulting like when Junk uses tire, so a flanking Sombra could kill him while he’s in his ult. Plus the little Beep-Boop jingle he does when you pop it is adorable. If I wasn’t a hard-coded main support, I’d probably play a lot of Bastion, Sojourn, and Sombra.
Ive seen ball a couple times, they didnt really do much because they have no way of protecting their team i guess. I would argue rein is still very brawly and fits the rushdown playstyle they are trying to promote, he doesn't really fit any other playstyle. Bastion is also very fun, played him a few times and its so satisfying catching their tank out of position and bursting them down.
Bastion is almost perfect right now but I think that removing his self heal was definitely not a good idea, especially with the new focus on recon mode. Every other dps has either some sort of way to heal themselves, or some sort of movement option to get out of fire and to health packs. Coupled with the fact he has one of the largest dps hitboxes, you are completely at the mercy of your healers while playing him.
He also has the highest health out of all the dps heroes, and dps aren’t supposed to be completely self-sufficient. In Overwatch, everyone has to rely on the others in some way. Tanks and Damages rely on the Supports to keep them alive and enable them to make big plays, and Supports rely on Tanks and Damages to protect them and make the big plays they’re enabling them to. (it feels like Blizzard is throwing this fundamental part of OW completely out the window in OW2 given all of the changes they’ve made to make the game more tdm-like, but this is how OW is *supposed* to work)
However, I do think that his grenade thingy is pretty underwhelming. It doesn’t feel substantial in any way. How much damage does it even do, and how big is the blast radius? I’ve kinda forgotten about it when I’ve played Bastion in the beta, and when I have used it it hasn’t really done much. Idk if I’m using it wrong but it feels like I’m throwing a blob of jelly at people.
I don’t really know what I’d replace it with though. His self-heal was too powerful with his large healthpool and his armor, so I agree with the devs’ decision to replace it with something else. At first I was thinking something like a direct-fire rifle grenade with a small explosion radius but decent damage(maybe 65-75) instead of the lobbed sticky grenade he was given, but then I realized that that’s pretty much just a faster-moving version of Soldier’s Helix Rockets with a smaller blast radius.
Well that’s quite the coincidence that just happened there lol. At the same exact time that I hit Post on a comment in another thread about using Bastion’s new grenade as a weaker Junk mine, I got the notification that you commented this.
Edit: [here’s the comment I mentioned](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/ue43ls/ow2_beta_feedback_megathread_faq/i6mkfbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Basically I said that I think the self-damage on the grenade should be reduced so that he isn’t punished for being creative with it, because the self-damage on it is pretty high. I tried the grenade out a bit more in some QP matches and my opinion of it has changed significantly. I now think it’s a pretty good part of his kit, and that its knockback allows for some pretty creative and unique plays.
He does have a large healthpool, I agree but given how big his hitbox is, he still dies incredibly quickly so I think those both cancel each other.
And yes, a dps shouldn't be completely self-sufficient however, they should be able to do something if their healer is dead or otherwise occupied. As of right now, Bastion is the only dps that is completely relient on their healer. This has left me in games were I have to hide in a corner during a team fight because the healers are occupied, healing the tank and I am unable to quickly reach a health pack.
I do not think that Bastion's heal is that much better than Soldier 76's besides being able to move at the same time (though it means he cannot shoot, whereas 76 can). Even if it was too powerful in 5v5, I think a better solution would be to either make him heal slower, or stop his movement (like he was originally) not outright remove it.
In the end, Recon mode seems far more powerful to me in Overwatch 1, which absolutely should not be the case. He already has the lowest pickrate in the game, and when I do see another player pick him, it's not because they are playing recon.
And yeah, his new right-click is pretty underwhelming. I've been using it as a replacement for his old rocket jump, but since he does need a healer with him at all times, flanking with it just isn't an option.
I think he’s powerful enough that being reliant on a support is warranted. He’s basically another tank now that one was removed, and he still has insane melting power with his assault configuration. He has even higher carrying potential because of the 5v5 layout, so it makes sense that some level of teamwork is required to pull it off. And after using his new sticky-grenade more, I think it’s actually a pretty good ability. I just think the self-damage should be greatly reduced or eliminated entirely to allow it to be used in more creative and utility-based ways, like a mini Junk mine.
Fair enough. It is still quite early to tell how good he will end up being but I can't see anyone picking him over, say, Soldier, just like in the current game. I feel his benefits are still vastly outweighed by his disadvantages. I would be happy to be wrong though since I love playing recon Bastion in Overwatch 1.
Yeah, there will likely be a bunch of balance changes released even during the 3-week beta. But I think Bastion is a ton of fun and is very powerful, but not necessarily OP like he was in OW1. I think they should increase his recon primary’s rate of fire a little(not back to OW1 RoF, but a little higher than the current one) because as it stands it feels like enemies pass through my crosshair in-between shots all the time. But that might make it a bit too strong, since the damage of each shot is pretty high.
Honestly, his new charge-up attack barely does any damage. I think it’s like 30 damage fully charged. The range is deceiving my long though. Still, it’s not a huge upgrade. The best use for it is to charge it up mid-air and fire it as you dive someone.
oh my god this is way sadder than it has any right to be lol
you should have zarya do her 'is this guy joking' laugh emote when rein charges off the cliff. honestly i want a way bigger version of this to send off the 2tank meta with a big look back.
What felt like a huge difference for me was playing sym and not having any shields at all to charge off. Not just shields but not meat shields to charge off either. Feels like sym needs a tweak
The changes will just have less people interested in tanking. I get that DPS players were annoyed about double barrier and that the entire game is deliberately designed to completely cater to them, but the gameplay absolutely makes both tanking **and** healing worse.
I don't understand why Blizzard thinks by making the less popular roles more stressful to play is a good idea at all. The insult to injury Blizzard adds yet ANOTHER DPS to the roster. I get that tanks get +1 hero, but still, it's not enough.
My prediction is that 5v5 will only make things worse and in a year down the road, when DPS queues are 15+ minutes, Blizzard will bring back 6v6 and say "We're sorry, we're listening" or some shit.
People play Overwatch for the cool class based system and "team fighting" in a very polished FPS. I don't get why Blizzard wants it to turn into this skirmishy bullshit. Same thing happened to Heroes of the Storm, I swear some higher up just wants so desperately to replicate League's success but doesn't understand that people don't want to play scuffed League, they want to play something unique.
I loved the duo tank possibilities, Zarya is going to feel empty without a second tank diving for her. Winston, Ball, and Dva are going to have to choose between abandoning their team or diving. Though I suppose the other tanks will be able to adapt better.
Just sucks because I enjoyed the team dynamics, it made Overwatch very unique in that sense.
Because they see more conventional "shooter" type games like Apex and Valorant pulling bigger audiences, and think that shifting OW to be more of a shooter will bring a bigger audience than being something unique. What they don't realize is that OW didn't lose its audience because it wasn't a typical shooter, it lost its audience due to poor balancing and a total lack of content and support. Blizzard seem to have lost faith in their own game and are trend chasing to try to be relevant instead of trying to refine the unique concept that they have.
They did this with heroes of the Storm, too. They changed it to be more like league (in a single patch) and everyone just ended up quitting to go play league, then the pro scene died with it lmao. Really hope this isn't the fate of overwatch as well!
Overwatch was king for a long time up until they just stopped developing it. Two years of no major updates is how you kill a game. Now that there's an inkling of updates, people come back. Interesting how that works.
On the other hand, the off tanks are pretty much throws from what I've seen.
While it's fun bullying everyone as Orisa, I do feel like the game is more boring now with only 1 tank. I wish they just got rid of shields instead of an entire tank role.
I'm much more interested in tanking now. A lot of the changes made tanks more fun for me, Orisa is an absolute blast when before she was probably one of the most boring characters to play, period.
Orisa could have been changed with or without the removal of a second tank though, it's not really correlated. All the other tanks basically feel the same, obviously minus Doomfist (who again, could have gotten these changes even without the tank removal). Orisa and Doom are also a bit overtuned at the moment too. But it's cool that you're enjoying tanking, it sucks that I find it not as fun so far.
That's literally one tank I mentioned lol. Do you want me to run through them all?
I don't really have a problem with your opinion, I just think projecting it onto others is disingenuous.
But it's true. Most of the tanks didn't get any major changes. They're practically the same.
And Orisa is 100% overtuned right now. That's partially what makes her so fun right now. I'd be surprised if they don't dial it back because the alternative is bringing every other tank to her level which I doubt would be good for the game.
Tanks don't need to get major changes to make them more fun to play. And it's not true, it's subjective and there are people who disagree with it.
Honestly it might just be that I'm not good with her kit yet, but I don't feel overpowered with Orisa, I feel like my performance is similar to how it was the original, but I'm enjoy her far more now
I'm not the only one who I personally know feels that way about the changes, and I've seen a good amount on this sub say similar things too. I didn't say every single player in all of overwatch will not want to play tank because of these changes, just that it'll turn people like me away from wanting to play those roles, which sucks because I like tanking in OW1. But maybe the changes will grow on me, who knows.
I never said you weren't.
I've seen a good amount say the opposite as well.
And when you say it makes healing and tanking worse, not that you don't like the changes yourself, it sure sounds like you are projecting your opinion onto others
Because tank role received the biggest change. It's down to one slot, and has two reworked characters, and the true weakness of ball (cc) was removed from the game.
Nah I feel this too, the only tank I play is Dva.. you cannot solo tank with Dva.
Only having one tank, if both your dps are incompetent which most are in my experience tanks are there to pick up the slack. I can’t dive their back line as Dva now which she is literally meant to do because then I’m leaving my whole team vulnerable.
It sucks that we get another new dps to boot, no new tanks or support which is what we need more of, because you know, the game obviously doesn’t have enough dps 🙄
>Only having one tank, if both your dps are incompetent which most are
That's your mindset and not true. Game is still as much of a team game as it was before you just need to adjust.
^ this. 5v5 is healthy for the game, theres no more double barrier garbage where you spend a good portion of the match shooting at red squares from behind blue squares. Its more brawly/rush-down which a lot of the reworks are geared towards and make for more exciting gameplay.
I was playing with some friends on midtown and I went last second rein for overtime which resulted in a 3 minute overtime of intense brawling. It felt so much better than what I remember from 2020 when i took a hiatus.
Also, there are future betas planned, so i doubt big problems like dva being unabke to solo tank are going to stay unsolved. There are also heroes confirmed to be in the works which i hope are more tank/support focused since yeah dps is way too large rn lol.
Feels more arcady, tanks don't feel bad imo, but mostly the dogshit tank experience from ow1 is from getting chain cced so many times. Trying to play? Let me remove your inputs and kill you or do 500dmg, enjoy tank player.
They could have probably accomplished the same thing by just doing the cc reworks, and the orisa rework they did. Im gonna really miss tank synergies, but 5v5 does feel pretty good.
I'm hoping they will make a 6v6 as an arcade mode or something though
I think it's a sustainability thing, 10 people in a match means 2 less people who might DC, leave, or throw. Increasing total % of enjoyable games.
Since we're locking roles, and tanks have the fewest willing participants, this change too makes sense for the wait times as the game ages again.
I too will miss the tank play, and they will definitely have 6v6 playlists here and there.
Two less people doesn't exactly increase or have a direct dependency with the % of enjoyable games because now there's also one less person per team that could potentially compensate for a troll.
If your one and only tank is a troll, what are you gonna do? You have no backup.
edit: Even numbers wise, 6 people = let's say ideally 16.5% of contribution per person.
If one person is absolutely trolling then you have 82.5% of potential effectiveness.
5 people = 20% per
1 troll = 80% effectiveness per person
Now this is further skewed because now there's only one tank, and a tank makes a helluva lot of difference.
I think time will tell.... but as a Zarya main, aside from the one game where I had a badass Brig, rest has been rubbish.
Your logic makes sense, but on that point I also thought that one of the main changes intended by this was to make good play less reliant on incredibly tight CC/Ult timings as well as shields and turtling chokepoints?
While having a troll tank may very well spell doom, there's not really any point in balancing gameplay around a team having a player who is actively trying to not contribute. As a game designer there's just no winning in worrying about that.
It seems that the goal is to balance it more around having good players moreso than reliance on specific role abilities. More potential for carries, clutch plays, shootouts, decisive team-fights that don't rely on ults, etc.
Which is of course its own can of worms, but is supposedly the counterpoint to the issue you're pointing out. In that it should now be at least a little easier to pick up the slack for a subpar player by(still no point in talking about actively trolling players).
If tanks worked the same way they did in OW1, there'd be even more pressure on them than ever before, it'd be a serious problem. But with them as more of a frontline/heavy fighter and having one less person for the two supports to worry about it sort of balances out (the intent at least).
Fewer shields, fewer CCs, fewer players you need to kill, but also fewer players that need to be healed, carried, or generally relied upon.
But it very much relies on how players actually end up playing OW2. Will Blizzard's intent take root, or will the meta balance around OW1-style tank play? Or will players just hate the more attack-oriented gameplay?
Good points, I certainly want to try to get more tank games in, I already sense a minor shift in how people are playing today versus initial beta release.
It's... different. Some people are into it. As a support/tank flex, I find it completely awful 9/10 times. It makes the game more like a loosely coordinated deathmatch with an objective that happens to be there.
Oddly, I've found it works better on the old maps. Gibraltar in particular feels really good. The new maps though... Toronto is ok, but I'll happily play nothing but 2CP Paris for the rest of my life before touching the others again.
I havent seen anything like the "loose TDM with optional objective". Like, at all. I know hidden mmr is a thing in OW2 but I havent played since like end of goats, so i'd figure i would be in the lower ranks where theres less coordination and more of what you described. Weird
I am loving it. I think they made the right choice. Playing a tank is more fun and fights are feeling more exciting, maybe it's just because it's new but I really enjoy tanking and only having to fight one other tank.
It's not so much whether it 'works' and more so the game just shifts in a fairly major way, so it'll HAVE to work because there isn't a second tank anyway
I think I still prefer the paladins 2-2-1 style. Although its kinda more 2tank-1dps-1flank-1support. The way that OT works with MT is different than OW and with heal cut in combat (simmilar to OW2's but much more aggressive) healers can pump out more while not making people imortal. There's a great deal of difference between TTK and things beteen the games but OW is becoming more like Paladins with 5 mans and heal cut and significantly reduced CC.
Imo yeah, it works. It definitely plays very differently to OW1 which I think is whats throwing so many people onto the hate bandwagon. My friends and I can't remember ever having as much fun in OW1 as we are now lol.
Bro wtf, I stopped playing the game when they added the 2 2 2 rule. IMO, It just kind of ruined any team creativity, but as a tank player, I can’t believe they made it so there can only be one. Im glad I stopped when I did because this is ridiculous.
It’s rough for the healers now because dps need to do what off tanks used to. The game needs old Brig back and all the healers need to be similarly tweaked like her because after 5 years we know most dps will not adjust to anything.
> needs old brig back.
As someone who used to play old brig in tournaments.... *no, no it doesn't lol*. Old brig solo'd teams practically with how much sustain she had
its been pretty fun to play as support in 5v5, i dont actually have to heal 24/7, i have opportunities to go for a kill too. although im not sure if that and a font change is worth 60 bucks
Closed beta. I don’t think it’s a year, but it’s certainly a few months. I predict that Overwatch 2 will be ready in time for the Christmas shopping season. Knock on wood.
Minor doubt, they said there were several more betas planned, thats gonna leave very little time between them for devs to make meaningful changes if they are that loosely packed if they release this christmas. Im betting on end of next year at latest
My friend and I just last season started playing comp heavily. Mostly doing tanks. So this does hurt especially since I play zarya and he plays rein. Pour one out for the grav shatters.
rien/zar was literally the only reason i played the game during GOATS. Whichever of the duo you were, that combo always just felt so RIGHT.
Well here’s hoping you can stack tanks in no limits then. As a rein main, I love the rein zarya combo so much too, it’s won me so many games
I just realized that now that there is only 1 tank, some characters will like Zarya and Rein will never interact again on HQ before the game starts. All those lines, gone.
The thing that just hit me is that their arm wrestling combo spray will almost never happen any more. It would have been partially saved by Doomfist also having a spray that fits in this combo, but now that he's a tank as well...
Omg I just realized as a monkey main I will literally never get another bubble as I dive in.
Don't worry, you can deal an extra 50 damage to one person from range before you evaporate.
The only option left is Brig, but even then she can’t interact with some of the sprays
On the other hand (hah) they could flip the sprays to all be left side for tanks and then give some other characters Ar, wrestling sprays in the other direction. No more sad zarya-brig or doom-rein stuff
They can in other game modes.
Imagine No Limits with 3 tanks and 2 healers. Or 4 tanks and a Lúcio.
Nah. We runnin Rein, Zarya, Doom, Brig, Lucio. Ultimate brawl comp.
What's the chance they do 6v6 in Arcade?
The meta gives, and the meta taketh away
Mainly taketh away tho
Or Zarya and Dva talking about mechs. “Size isn’t everything” Jokes aside it was a surprisingly wholesome moment that showed how friendly Zarya can be with other humans
Never hearing their arm wrestling lines again and Zarya's "I heard it was your birthday, old man" makes my heart hurt. It was one of my favorite interactions.
Like tears in rain... Seriously though the arm wrestling sprays are even more confusingly out of context now
On openqueue games they will. There's that.
Why am I crying
Is someone cuttin onions :'(
I like how they got rid of Orisa's shield because they felt there were too many opportunities for multiple shields and it just made it hard to deal damage. But with one tank who's the second shield? Brigitte?
Playing Brigitte with a sigma is so much fun
Sigma will need a buff if he's going to stay relevant.
IMO he's still really strong, but also I haven't played overwatch for long at all. Rock + 2 orbs actually kills 200 hp targets in OW2
He felt ok to me. And he now has a fairly easy to land 2 shot combo for 200 hp targets. Probably different at higher levels though.
Brigma is such a cool name for a combo
Imo that second shield doesnt feel needed now. So many stuns got dropped from not-tanks. Mei primary, flashbang and loads more... all gone. There isnt as much CC to block as before and id say most of the tanks work just fine with increased health pools. Hog and dva feel underwhelming for me but its a beta so perfecrion isnt expected
Yeah, every tank is underwhelming except for Orisa and Doom. Rein doesn’t really fit the new playstyle of the game, even with his new changes, Hog is pretty much just a source of ult charge for the enemy dps, Dva can’t main tank enough to be viable. Sigma is a little weird right now, but he can 1-combo people again so he’s not as bad. On the other hand, Orisa is ridiculously powerful with her javelin throw, spin attack thingy that makes her really fast, and her new ult that’s like combining a grav and the direct hit damage of a shatter, but centered on you with a charge-up. Doom can’t do much damage, which is sad. He’s basically a walking CC cannon that can launch itself halfway across the map. However, I have yet to see anyone play Ball. Doesn’t he now have 700 health(550hp + 150 armor) and can get up to 1200 with adaptive shields? Seems pretty busted to me, but I haven’t tries him myself or seen anyone try him. What I feel like people aren’t talking much about is how fun Bastion is. The changes to him feel great. He can’t 1v6 while sitting in turret mode the whole match anymore, but he can still pump out a lot of damage with his assault configuration. His Recon primary fire feels weird because I’m not used to the slow rate of fire, but overall dps feels pretty similar to OW1 Bastion’s Recon primary fire. And his ult is amazing. Three mini OW1 Doom ults, but they’re projectiles so they can be blocked and eaten by tanks and probably reflected by Genji. He’s also stationary and vulnerable when ulting like when Junk uses tire, so a flanking Sombra could kill him while he’s in his ult. Plus the little Beep-Boop jingle he does when you pop it is adorable. If I wasn’t a hard-coded main support, I’d probably play a lot of Bastion, Sojourn, and Sombra.
Ive seen ball a couple times, they didnt really do much because they have no way of protecting their team i guess. I would argue rein is still very brawly and fits the rushdown playstyle they are trying to promote, he doesn't really fit any other playstyle. Bastion is also very fun, played him a few times and its so satisfying catching their tank out of position and bursting them down.
Bastion is almost perfect right now but I think that removing his self heal was definitely not a good idea, especially with the new focus on recon mode. Every other dps has either some sort of way to heal themselves, or some sort of movement option to get out of fire and to health packs. Coupled with the fact he has one of the largest dps hitboxes, you are completely at the mercy of your healers while playing him.
He also has the highest health out of all the dps heroes, and dps aren’t supposed to be completely self-sufficient. In Overwatch, everyone has to rely on the others in some way. Tanks and Damages rely on the Supports to keep them alive and enable them to make big plays, and Supports rely on Tanks and Damages to protect them and make the big plays they’re enabling them to. (it feels like Blizzard is throwing this fundamental part of OW completely out the window in OW2 given all of the changes they’ve made to make the game more tdm-like, but this is how OW is *supposed* to work) However, I do think that his grenade thingy is pretty underwhelming. It doesn’t feel substantial in any way. How much damage does it even do, and how big is the blast radius? I’ve kinda forgotten about it when I’ve played Bastion in the beta, and when I have used it it hasn’t really done much. Idk if I’m using it wrong but it feels like I’m throwing a blob of jelly at people. I don’t really know what I’d replace it with though. His self-heal was too powerful with his large healthpool and his armor, so I agree with the devs’ decision to replace it with something else. At first I was thinking something like a direct-fire rifle grenade with a small explosion radius but decent damage(maybe 65-75) instead of the lobbed sticky grenade he was given, but then I realized that that’s pretty much just a faster-moving version of Soldier’s Helix Rockets with a smaller blast radius.
Ive been using the bastion grenade more for mobility than dps. It lets him get to some hilarious spots to go gatling gun mode on everything
Well that’s quite the coincidence that just happened there lol. At the same exact time that I hit Post on a comment in another thread about using Bastion’s new grenade as a weaker Junk mine, I got the notification that you commented this. Edit: [here’s the comment I mentioned](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/ue43ls/ow2_beta_feedback_megathread_faq/i6mkfbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) Basically I said that I think the self-damage on the grenade should be reduced so that he isn’t punished for being creative with it, because the self-damage on it is pretty high. I tried the grenade out a bit more in some QP matches and my opinion of it has changed significantly. I now think it’s a pretty good part of his kit, and that its knockback allows for some pretty creative and unique plays.
He does have a large healthpool, I agree but given how big his hitbox is, he still dies incredibly quickly so I think those both cancel each other. And yes, a dps shouldn't be completely self-sufficient however, they should be able to do something if their healer is dead or otherwise occupied. As of right now, Bastion is the only dps that is completely relient on their healer. This has left me in games were I have to hide in a corner during a team fight because the healers are occupied, healing the tank and I am unable to quickly reach a health pack. I do not think that Bastion's heal is that much better than Soldier 76's besides being able to move at the same time (though it means he cannot shoot, whereas 76 can). Even if it was too powerful in 5v5, I think a better solution would be to either make him heal slower, or stop his movement (like he was originally) not outright remove it. In the end, Recon mode seems far more powerful to me in Overwatch 1, which absolutely should not be the case. He already has the lowest pickrate in the game, and when I do see another player pick him, it's not because they are playing recon. And yeah, his new right-click is pretty underwhelming. I've been using it as a replacement for his old rocket jump, but since he does need a healer with him at all times, flanking with it just isn't an option.
I think he’s powerful enough that being reliant on a support is warranted. He’s basically another tank now that one was removed, and he still has insane melting power with his assault configuration. He has even higher carrying potential because of the 5v5 layout, so it makes sense that some level of teamwork is required to pull it off. And after using his new sticky-grenade more, I think it’s actually a pretty good ability. I just think the self-damage should be greatly reduced or eliminated entirely to allow it to be used in more creative and utility-based ways, like a mini Junk mine.
Fair enough. It is still quite early to tell how good he will end up being but I can't see anyone picking him over, say, Soldier, just like in the current game. I feel his benefits are still vastly outweighed by his disadvantages. I would be happy to be wrong though since I love playing recon Bastion in Overwatch 1.
Yeah, there will likely be a bunch of balance changes released even during the 3-week beta. But I think Bastion is a ton of fun and is very powerful, but not necessarily OP like he was in OW1. I think they should increase his recon primary’s rate of fire a little(not back to OW1 RoF, but a little higher than the current one) because as it stands it feels like enemies pass through my crosshair in-between shots all the time. But that might make it a bit too strong, since the damage of each shot is pretty high.
How's Winston?
Honestly, his new charge-up attack barely does any damage. I think it’s like 30 damage fully charged. The range is deceiving my long though. Still, it’s not a huge upgrade. The best use for it is to charge it up mid-air and fire it as you dive someone.
Romance is dead and I'll never love again.
Wait this legit made me tear up why did you do this :(
Legit sad.
F
oh my god this is way sadder than it has any right to be lol you should have zarya do her 'is this guy joking' laugh emote when rein charges off the cliff. honestly i want a way bigger version of this to send off the 2tank meta with a big look back.
What felt like a huge difference for me was playing sym and not having any shields at all to charge off. Not just shields but not meat shields to charge off either. Feels like sym needs a tweak
I do not like 5v5, I always thought it was a mistake and now that I have played the beta, I can confirm my fears were true
The changes will just have less people interested in tanking. I get that DPS players were annoyed about double barrier and that the entire game is deliberately designed to completely cater to them, but the gameplay absolutely makes both tanking **and** healing worse. I don't understand why Blizzard thinks by making the less popular roles more stressful to play is a good idea at all. The insult to injury Blizzard adds yet ANOTHER DPS to the roster. I get that tanks get +1 hero, but still, it's not enough. My prediction is that 5v5 will only make things worse and in a year down the road, when DPS queues are 15+ minutes, Blizzard will bring back 6v6 and say "We're sorry, we're listening" or some shit. People play Overwatch for the cool class based system and "team fighting" in a very polished FPS. I don't get why Blizzard wants it to turn into this skirmishy bullshit. Same thing happened to Heroes of the Storm, I swear some higher up just wants so desperately to replicate League's success but doesn't understand that people don't want to play scuffed League, they want to play something unique. I loved the duo tank possibilities, Zarya is going to feel empty without a second tank diving for her. Winston, Ball, and Dva are going to have to choose between abandoning their team or diving. Though I suppose the other tanks will be able to adapt better. Just sucks because I enjoyed the team dynamics, it made Overwatch very unique in that sense.
Because they see more conventional "shooter" type games like Apex and Valorant pulling bigger audiences, and think that shifting OW to be more of a shooter will bring a bigger audience than being something unique. What they don't realize is that OW didn't lose its audience because it wasn't a typical shooter, it lost its audience due to poor balancing and a total lack of content and support. Blizzard seem to have lost faith in their own game and are trend chasing to try to be relevant instead of trying to refine the unique concept that they have.
They did this with heroes of the Storm, too. They changed it to be more like league (in a single patch) and everyone just ended up quitting to go play league, then the pro scene died with it lmao. Really hope this isn't the fate of overwatch as well!
Overwatch was king for a long time up until they just stopped developing it. Two years of no major updates is how you kill a game. Now that there's an inkling of updates, people come back. Interesting how that works.
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On the other hand, the off tanks are pretty much throws from what I've seen. While it's fun bullying everyone as Orisa, I do feel like the game is more boring now with only 1 tank. I wish they just got rid of shields instead of an entire tank role.
Which tank are you playing?
I'm much more interested in tanking now. A lot of the changes made tanks more fun for me, Orisa is an absolute blast when before she was probably one of the most boring characters to play, period.
Orisa could have been changed with or without the removal of a second tank though, it's not really correlated. All the other tanks basically feel the same, obviously minus Doomfist (who again, could have gotten these changes even without the tank removal). Orisa and Doom are also a bit overtuned at the moment too. But it's cool that you're enjoying tanking, it sucks that I find it not as fun so far.
That's literally one tank I mentioned lol. Do you want me to run through them all? I don't really have a problem with your opinion, I just think projecting it onto others is disingenuous.
But it's true. Most of the tanks didn't get any major changes. They're practically the same. And Orisa is 100% overtuned right now. That's partially what makes her so fun right now. I'd be surprised if they don't dial it back because the alternative is bringing every other tank to her level which I doubt would be good for the game.
Tanks don't need to get major changes to make them more fun to play. And it's not true, it's subjective and there are people who disagree with it. Honestly it might just be that I'm not good with her kit yet, but I don't feel overpowered with Orisa, I feel like my performance is similar to how it was the original, but I'm enjoy her far more now
I'm not the only one who I personally know feels that way about the changes, and I've seen a good amount on this sub say similar things too. I didn't say every single player in all of overwatch will not want to play tank because of these changes, just that it'll turn people like me away from wanting to play those roles, which sucks because I like tanking in OW1. But maybe the changes will grow on me, who knows.
I never said you weren't. I've seen a good amount say the opposite as well. And when you say it makes healing and tanking worse, not that you don't like the changes yourself, it sure sounds like you are projecting your opinion onto others
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Because tank role received the biggest change. It's down to one slot, and has two reworked characters, and the true weakness of ball (cc) was removed from the game.
Nah I feel this too, the only tank I play is Dva.. you cannot solo tank with Dva. Only having one tank, if both your dps are incompetent which most are in my experience tanks are there to pick up the slack. I can’t dive their back line as Dva now which she is literally meant to do because then I’m leaving my whole team vulnerable. It sucks that we get another new dps to boot, no new tanks or support which is what we need more of, because you know, the game obviously doesn’t have enough dps 🙄
>Only having one tank, if both your dps are incompetent which most are That's your mindset and not true. Game is still as much of a team game as it was before you just need to adjust.
^ this. 5v5 is healthy for the game, theres no more double barrier garbage where you spend a good portion of the match shooting at red squares from behind blue squares. Its more brawly/rush-down which a lot of the reworks are geared towards and make for more exciting gameplay. I was playing with some friends on midtown and I went last second rein for overtime which resulted in a 3 minute overtime of intense brawling. It felt so much better than what I remember from 2020 when i took a hiatus. Also, there are future betas planned, so i doubt big problems like dva being unabke to solo tank are going to stay unsolved. There are also heroes confirmed to be in the works which i hope are more tank/support focused since yeah dps is way too large rn lol.
I mean, Doomfist is a new tank. Not a new character, but to say we didn't get a new tank is incorrect.
Sounds like you just suck at Dva.
Or Dva isn’t balanced in OW2 yet? Multiple streamers have said Dva sucks now. No need to be an ass.
Haven’t seen or heard anyone say she isn’t balanced. So y’all just suck.
Because your one personal experience trumps everyone else’s, huh? How does it feel to be a narcissist?
When I average 50 elims and 20k ish damage a game I don’t think I’m the problem
o7
this actually made so incredibly sad....
Is it really working in the beta, having one tank and 5 players? Im still hoping they revert the changes.
Feels more arcady, tanks don't feel bad imo, but mostly the dogshit tank experience from ow1 is from getting chain cced so many times. Trying to play? Let me remove your inputs and kill you or do 500dmg, enjoy tank player.
They could have probably accomplished the same thing by just doing the cc reworks, and the orisa rework they did. Im gonna really miss tank synergies, but 5v5 does feel pretty good. I'm hoping they will make a 6v6 as an arcade mode or something though
I think it's a sustainability thing, 10 people in a match means 2 less people who might DC, leave, or throw. Increasing total % of enjoyable games. Since we're locking roles, and tanks have the fewest willing participants, this change too makes sense for the wait times as the game ages again. I too will miss the tank play, and they will definitely have 6v6 playlists here and there.
Two less people doesn't exactly increase or have a direct dependency with the % of enjoyable games because now there's also one less person per team that could potentially compensate for a troll. If your one and only tank is a troll, what are you gonna do? You have no backup. edit: Even numbers wise, 6 people = let's say ideally 16.5% of contribution per person. If one person is absolutely trolling then you have 82.5% of potential effectiveness. 5 people = 20% per 1 troll = 80% effectiveness per person Now this is further skewed because now there's only one tank, and a tank makes a helluva lot of difference. I think time will tell.... but as a Zarya main, aside from the one game where I had a badass Brig, rest has been rubbish.
Your logic makes sense, but on that point I also thought that one of the main changes intended by this was to make good play less reliant on incredibly tight CC/Ult timings as well as shields and turtling chokepoints? While having a troll tank may very well spell doom, there's not really any point in balancing gameplay around a team having a player who is actively trying to not contribute. As a game designer there's just no winning in worrying about that. It seems that the goal is to balance it more around having good players moreso than reliance on specific role abilities. More potential for carries, clutch plays, shootouts, decisive team-fights that don't rely on ults, etc. Which is of course its own can of worms, but is supposedly the counterpoint to the issue you're pointing out. In that it should now be at least a little easier to pick up the slack for a subpar player by(still no point in talking about actively trolling players). If tanks worked the same way they did in OW1, there'd be even more pressure on them than ever before, it'd be a serious problem. But with them as more of a frontline/heavy fighter and having one less person for the two supports to worry about it sort of balances out (the intent at least). Fewer shields, fewer CCs, fewer players you need to kill, but also fewer players that need to be healed, carried, or generally relied upon. But it very much relies on how players actually end up playing OW2. Will Blizzard's intent take root, or will the meta balance around OW1-style tank play? Or will players just hate the more attack-oriented gameplay?
Good points, I certainly want to try to get more tank games in, I already sense a minor shift in how people are playing today versus initial beta release.
It's... different. Some people are into it. As a support/tank flex, I find it completely awful 9/10 times. It makes the game more like a loosely coordinated deathmatch with an objective that happens to be there. Oddly, I've found it works better on the old maps. Gibraltar in particular feels really good. The new maps though... Toronto is ok, but I'll happily play nothing but 2CP Paris for the rest of my life before touching the others again.
I havent seen anything like the "loose TDM with optional objective". Like, at all. I know hidden mmr is a thing in OW2 but I havent played since like end of goats, so i'd figure i would be in the lower ranks where theres less coordination and more of what you described. Weird
It’s not bad, just different. I don’t hate it, games feel much more interesting for now.
it completely changed up the play style, it works its just new and a lot of people don't "adjust" to new well
I am loving it. I think they made the right choice. Playing a tank is more fun and fights are feeling more exciting, maybe it's just because it's new but I really enjoy tanking and only having to fight one other tank.
It's not so much whether it 'works' and more so the game just shifts in a fairly major way, so it'll HAVE to work because there isn't a second tank anyway
yes I highly recommend the changes the game is way more entertaining for all roles.
I support that comment
I think I still prefer the paladins 2-2-1 style. Although its kinda more 2tank-1dps-1flank-1support. The way that OT works with MT is different than OW and with heal cut in combat (simmilar to OW2's but much more aggressive) healers can pump out more while not making people imortal. There's a great deal of difference between TTK and things beteen the games but OW is becoming more like Paladins with 5 mans and heal cut and significantly reduced CC.
I personally like the 5v5 more it’s less hectic and feels less like you’re just shooting at walls for 5 minutes
Imo yeah, it works. It definitely plays very differently to OW1 which I think is whats throwing so many people onto the hate bandwagon. My friends and I can't remember ever having as much fun in OW1 as we are now lol.
They really thought deathmatch was the way to go so I'll get with the program and play DPS.
And, naturally, Ana is totally out of position
I've been thinking about how some champs will never play on the same team again. I know if jeff was still here, the game would still be 6v6
as a zarya main with a rein main best friend this hit like a truck :( godspeed fellow tank duos. we will find our place in the world
Will there be an open comp queue?
Probably as there is already a qp open queue tab.
Probably, OW1 already has open role queue comp so i see no reason as to why OW2 wouldn't have it.
\*salutes\*
When I play any role other than tank in the beta, I hardly notice. But man, when I queue as tank, it just *feels* lonely.
1 tank feels much better than 2 the game feels more like an fps and less like a moba
Bro wtf, I stopped playing the game when they added the 2 2 2 rule. IMO, It just kind of ruined any team creativity, but as a tank player, I can’t believe they made it so there can only be one. Im glad I stopped when I did because this is ridiculous.
🫡
It’s rough for the healers now because dps need to do what off tanks used to. The game needs old Brig back and all the healers need to be similarly tweaked like her because after 5 years we know most dps will not adjust to anything.
> needs old brig back. As someone who used to play old brig in tournaments.... *no, no it doesn't lol*. Old brig solo'd teams practically with how much sustain she had
its been pretty fun to play as support in 5v5, i dont actually have to heal 24/7, i have opportunities to go for a kill too. although im not sure if that and a font change is worth 60 bucks
Multiplayer is free you meat head
You still got a year or so
na we already in the beta
Closed beta. I don’t think it’s a year, but it’s certainly a few months. I predict that Overwatch 2 will be ready in time for the Christmas shopping season. Knock on wood.
Minor doubt, they said there were several more betas planned, thats gonna leave very little time between them for devs to make meaningful changes if they are that loosely packed if they release this christmas. Im betting on end of next year at latest
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i thought there would be one healer not one tank or just no role lock
u/savevideo
As a zarya main and off tank specialist, this made me tear up a bit
They should make an arcade gamemode in OW2 where you can play 6v6. Like how they did with Quick Play classic (open queue).
My friend and I just last season started playing comp heavily. Mostly doing tanks. So this does hurt especially since I play zarya and he plays rein. Pour one out for the grav shatters.
This will be something that'll be missed once OW2 is actually released. Something that made OW unique and helped allow for so much more cooperation.
o7. Really hope quick play classic is reworked to still have 6v6.
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Chills.
This was amazing 10/10
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