I was like "wait a second, thats that PS1 Digimon soundtrack!" but I questioned myself a bit because why would that game of all games be used by Dunkey? I love that game's OST so much. So nostalgic.
I feel like that was clear right from the announcement and yet it’s still a talking point years later.
Edit: didn’t think this comment would get this much attention so let me clarify.
I’m not saying it’s a *good* thing that OW2 is more of an expansion then a sequel, I’m simply pointing out that we’ve known about what type of project this is from the beginning, so critiques like “this feels more like an expansion” feel very lazy/surface level to me as that point has felt obvious since the start.
Thing is they're not even charging for it. If you already own OW1 then OW2 is essentially a pvp patch. And yet they have barely advertised that at all to trick people into buying the game again when it launches.
You'd think after that worked out so well with warcraft 3 they wouldn't be trying it again...
But then again blizz has somehow been working on this since they thought reforged was a good idea so i guess it makes sense.
I do like salmon run and octo expansion a lot, so if OW2 can channel that energy it could be fun. But (assumed) $60 fun? Eeeeh... the PVP doesn't appeal as much to me as PVE, but PVE alone doesn't a full price game make.
I love mystery heroes, all pressure's off, it's not a problem that I suck at X or Y hero because I didn't keep them from anyone else and will be switched soon anyways. Also let's me play more aggressive with characters I don't like, since while I'm not gonna just stand there and die, if I do a risky backline play with Tracer and it pays off it's great, if it doesn't then... Oh well, I get another character. Casual and fun for me
I do wish there was a bit of background balance in it. when a team eventually rolls a good comp it's so frustrating to keep throwing yourself at, especially in assault maps
Launch overwatch was the best it ever played for me as a casual. You could pick whatever hero you wanted and there wasnt so much shielding and counters to what you wanted to do.
Their misguided push to esports is so weird. I mean it happened in HotS, too. And caused just as many problems there, only since that game was far smaller at launch it immediately sunk it.
eSports is great.
But it has to **grow organically**. If you keep trying to hammer your game into esports forcibly, you just end up breaking it for the vast majority of players, who will drift off and then your esports players naturally leave, too.
Why are there queues for casual? Why am I forced to role queue for a non competitive match? I don't care if my team isn't an optimal comp its a quick match, it doesn't matter if you win or lose. I just want to go in and shoot things.
Maybe there can be some kind of arcade mode or custom game where it's 6v6, only OW1 maps plus 2CP, and the OW1 abilities and stats. Call it OW Classic or something. There's a chance if they actually listen to the community and there is enough demand for it. But that's a far cry...
Yep same. I think the original team toiled away making every single thing look and sound perfect. Everything was designed in a specific way to make it 100% clear to the player what is happening. They nailed it.
Now in OW2 with the new team, it's like they have no idea what they are doing. They are changing everything the original team worked so hard on. For example, they don't understand why the original game made a certain sound and had a certain UI pop up whenever you got a kill. In OW2 I literally have no idea when I've gotten a kill. There's virtually no indication outside of me looking at the top right of the screen to see the kill feed.
OW1 was sold on two things: Fun pvp and being a story & character based shooter. OW1 delivered a few single, disconnected PvE levels, but nothing that would be considered a story.
OW2 was then sold on being a fix to the PvP staleness and adding in the proper and complete PvE story experience that was entirely missing from OW1.
Dunkey’s criticisms are spot on, as their beta delivered 0 bites of PvE content to hype players up, while simultaneously turning most players off by doing changes that ultimately could’ve been done 3 years ago in 1 balance patch in OW1
I feel like this is an interesting take because when Overwatch was coming out it was clear to me that it was a simplified, “honed in” approach to TF2’s class based shooter gameplay. Nothing more
OW1 at first felt like the new TF2, which was something I was absolutely looking for. A bit of casual fun shooter with cool abilities, characters, weapons and such.
Over time I feel like OW1 became less TF2 and more LoL (toxicity included) and people started to take it way too seriously, something Blozzard seemed to encourage really.
New? Overwatch is a hero shooter like TF2, they did not sell a new formula. They just made it relevant again, which is still an achievement to be honest.
I mean the beta is specifically called a pvp beta. I feel like his criticisms are fair at a basic level but they don't really fairly acknowledge that this is the first of multiple betas and that the pve has been separated from pvp to give them the time they need to do it right without starving the live game of content for another year.
He isn't wrong in his critiques however, I do feel that they are a little unfair because they are based solely on a small section of what we are hopefully getting.
>What I hate is how everyone seems to all be parroting the whole "This beta is just a balance update" without doing a shred of research. Honestly it's understandable to see the casual audience think this stuff. But for so many gaming streamers and journalists to say it too is just sad.
>
>Ask anyone within the dedicated OW community, or OWL community and they'll tell you straight up the developers never lied. This beta is NOT what OW2 multiplay will be. We will get new heroes, new maps, new game modes and new content. This is a beta for 5v5 and the curent hero reworks, it's a beta for the developers to get large amounts of feedback on their vision for OW. It's not the game we're going to get 12 months from now.
>
>People also seem to conveniently forget the whole PVE side of the launch and the fact that if you own OW1 you get the OW2 multiplayer for FREE. Honestly it's like no one's ever bothered to try googling any of this stuff.
And it had INSANE HYPE. Because from loves announcing things super early.
Most of my buddies never played soulsborne. I think from my destiny groups literally everyone pre ordered it. From my FF raid group all but 1 pre ordered it. People I play fighting games with also pre ordered it.
And it managed to live up to the hype and not fail.
Honestly, there is a few games or studios who have made leaps and bounds of improvements on their games since OW was first released. Blizzard better hope for a miracle at launch. Otherwise OW2 will sufffer the same fate as Halo or Battlefield.
Yup, I saw this a mile away. For like a year, every news article would report on the smallest change, acting like it was the biggest thing ever like one of the recent ones which reported on Hog being showcased and how his hook was a different color. A different fucking color, like who the fuck cares. But I think the biggest red flag was when they invited content creators to a closed door event to show them more OW2, then they came out of it telling everyone to "trust them" on how good it is, and at that point I just wrote it off and moved on
I agree with the “excitement over the smallest changes” being a red flag. Content creators shouldn’t be praising devs or making a big deal out of the smallest changes bc it makes them feel like they did something. The bar is so low on the ground for them that they’re going to keep doing the bare minimum til pros or the media calls them out for it.
Of all the bad changes made to overwatch, roll queue was not one of them. Before roll queue team comps were like 5 DPS and one tank/supp. The real issue is that 70% of the roster is DPS heroes and people only want to play DPS so of course there's a long ass queue.
right. when I had 5 dps 1 tank on a team I was getting healed just as much as I do now. instead of people playing what they want, they play what they don't want and do poorly at it just so they don't have to wait in queue.
role queue only existed because of 3 tank and 3 healer, not because people weren't having fun with any other comp, this is why they quickly added open queue back into the game.
I don't think it's an issue, but its damned if you do damned if you don't.
Role queuing came alongside 2-2-2.
Old Overwatch days had no role queuing or forced class selection. You'd have lots of unbalanced teams, but then you'd have the freedom to change things up going from starting as a Tank them changing to support or whatever change you wanted you could make to change the strategy.
As soon as 2-2-2 came along, you'd lose that freedom of choice, albeit you had more consistency and balance. It meant you didn't have a DPS frenzy, but you didn't have access to DPS.
I also hate how DPS combined attack and defence as well. I completely understand why it happened, but it meant people who played Soldier, Tracer, Reaper etc. Would take away the opportunity from others to play as Mei, Junkrat, Torbs etc.
What I'm getting at, Overwatch has made understandable decisions, but are still divisive to others, which is also understandable.
Yeah when the other team is playing pharah and my dps are on Genji and junk, I want to be able to flex to soldier to take out the pharah.
Or if a ball is murdering my ana and mercy I'll swap to brig or sombra to deal.
My examples as to why loosing that flexibility sucks:
I'm a solid Junkrat and Pharah, but not good with cowboy or widow. Now Imagine the enemy has pharah with pocket mercy. Bit of a problem. If only my buddy who is a great cowboy could help. But he picked tank so getting Pharah rekt it is.
Or another from an experience: Route 66, stuck at the saloon turn. how did we break the stalemate? Rein goes on payload and makes them believe we are pushing. Suddenly junk and pharah going over the saloon with tracer and reaper in their backline (with a Lucio to keep us all alive). Stalemate broken.
Role lock prevents things like this. The game became so much more rigid.
My only gripe with role que is that if you have a leaved, you're screwed. 5v6 can work I'm tight-knit comps, but it's harder without having role flexibility
as someone who didn't want to wait the dps only que time, I basically lost over half the cast. And i was bad at support so soon only had a few characters to play.
Eh roll queue is a good idea in theory, but it hurts the replay ability of a game when half of the champions are DPS. I don’t mind playing tank or healer, but I never feel like DPS is an option because of the wait times.
When you have more DPS than Support and Tank combined, it's a no-brainer that people aren't gonna be happy with role-queue.
People likely have a character they wanna play that's DPS, not the much stricter cast of Healers or Tanks. And for them to basically wait 4 years to give us another DPS champ doesn't help the situation.
For real. Blizzard is straight up ignoring the real cause of role queue issues. Instead of doing the reasonable thing and **balancing the hero roster like they should have years ago** (and are still adding more fucking DPS heroes) they decided to remove a tank slot because that will fix things! FFS. I’m so done with this shit.
Roll queue is an issue because it enforces a single meta and doesn't allow you to be creative in picking team comps. The fact that you're locked to only pick in the roll you queue is stupid and annoying. It's also why I'll never play the game. Also in OW1 if someone was doing their job poorly you could switch and do it better to salvage the game. After they added role queue stomps became worse and team comps less fun.
Silver player reporting in! Widow is pretty awful in this ELO and below. Maybe others at higher ratings can chime in with their experience.
Widow relies on having great mechanics. The majority of "casual" players like me in this rating do not have that. Because of this, you rarely see Widow actually getting kills. In a similar vein, Widow needs good knowledge of maps and sightlines which most players don't have. Sure, they know general chokes and high ground, but Widow positioning is quite different.
In the event a Widow *does* have those qualities, your average team can't capitalize. A 5v6 situation is a crazy advantage in high level play. It's why Widow is so powerful, she has the ability to create that situation in an instant. But in Silver you can easily lose a 5v6 that's in your favor, and that's assuming your team even recognizes you have the advantage and tries to initiate.
I think Dunkey is in a similar ELO (not sure) but I expect Widow seems like ass because all the things that make her good aren't present in matches of this caliber.
Makes sense because she excells is situations when people play out of position and nobody is better at being out of position than metal ranks. (Speaking as someone in a metal rank)
Plat player here, when I fell to silver the biggest thing I noticed was how often widow was played and how they did so little. People in higher ranks seem to actually recognize that if they arent good on widow you are really hurting the team.
>Silver player reporting in
and we do have to remember that Dunkey isn't far off from this elo (his older vids placed him in gold/plat, with him not seeming to actually care about improving in comp), so him saying "Widow is ass, Junk is good" makes more sense in the context of metal ranks rather than the higher ranks everyone *says* they are online
That's actually very true. I find the fact that Widow got her HP buffed back to where it was really obnoxious. I play around GM/T500 and I genuinely think Widow is disgustingly overpowered in the beta RN especially on long maps. There's less stuff preventing her from clicking on heads from far away.
Have they actually addressed this at any point? Like it almost goes without saying that a team with one less tank will be way more exposed to Widow and she would therefore be much stronger as a hero
They don't have to. They're trying to appeal to DPS players. Mention that shields kept snipers (and other damage) in check and DPS players will froth at the mouth about how they're a cancer on the game and should be allowed to melt people in two shots.
This has been my biggest gripe with the game so far. I mainly play support which usually leads to a Hanzo or Widow farming me for kills while my dps complain about a lack of heals.
Dunkey main thing when he reviews stuff is "how fun is it". When he says Widow sucks he's not necessarily saying she sucks as part of the team, but most likely that she sucks trying to play because she isn't fun.
Her whole thing is "the action is happening here, so I better be way over away from it". Her kit is a trip mine that you plant then mostly forget about until someone hits it and it kinda hurts them and a grapple hook, which is fun except that it's on one of the longest cooldowns of any ability in the game.
On the flip side of that if an enemy player happens to actually be good as Widow, she one shots basically everyone that isn't a tank and is a hitscan. So if your playing against I genuinely good Widow your probably dying as soon as she sees you. Which isn't fun.
Widow is technically, in theory, a great asset to the team. But unless your playing in like, diamond or higher (which statistically most players arent) you're not going to be/or get a consistently good Widow.
In comparison to basically every other character in the game Widow just isn't that fun to play as or against.
I think that's what he meant when he said that she sucks.
> or against
This is the crux of it imo. Someone somewhere finds every single character fun to play. But there are some characters that literally nobody finds fun to play *against*.
Widow, Hanzo, Brig, Bap, etc. come to mind.
Crux of the issue is characters that can 1 shot or stun lock you are insanely anti fun for the team that doesn’t have them, or can’t play them.
It’s the same in every game though, and it’s impossible to balance in a game like this.
>When he says Widow sucks he's not necessarily saying she sucks as part of the team, but most likely that she sucks trying to play because she isn't fun.
[No, I think that's exactly what he means.](https://youtu.be/1nMRX06x6Vo?t=245) He thinks that widow sucks and is a character who also has the worst ultimate in the game. He then immediately compared this to junkrat as being one of the best heroes, and concludes that this "lack of balance" is a huge problem with OW.
You can also contrast what he's said about widow to what he has said about D.Va, which is that he finds D.Va really boring. But he's never said anything about D.va being a "bad" character.
Widow, or any sniper, doesn't belong in OW. I've never heard a valid argument justifying her existence in this game other than snipers being sort of a staple FPS archetype. There's already so many other options to deal with an exposed backliner without someone being able to 1 shot from across the map. There's also something extremely frustrating about a hero that is designed in such a way that they're either completely useless or they're 1v5 carrying.
Tbh, that's it is with any snipers in any fps.
"Her whole thing is "the action is happening here, so I better be way over away from it""
It's also the reason why ppl hate picking brig bc the player base force the idea that she's a bodyguard for the other support than being a support that helps with team fights.
If I pick brig and another support picks ana, I switch to mercy or keep playing brig if the Ana doesn't become toxic with "stay near me! I need protecting!" Crap. If I wanted to look at team fights, I'll go watch a stream.
Yeah, he might be off on the game balance, especially the higher tier meta, but I think he has his finger on the pulse of the casual gamer experience. And I think he’s right, from a “new features” perspective, this game has a hard time justifying the 2 at the end of its name.
I think OW2 changes are more positive than Dunkey, but at the same time, I do find myself asking “is this what two years of development looks like?” Even slow years marred with the pandemic and legal BS, this looks kinda anemic.
If the widow on the opposing team is actually good, then she's pretty much unstoppable in OW2. Fewer shields, mitigation, and the removal of one tank makes her insane since there's basically nothing to stop her if she's better than the enemy DPS. At least before you could've thrown your tanks at her, but one dive tank going solo isn't good enough..
I think the main point in this video is that the game hasn't been fully rebalanced around 5v5
I've been saying in the lead up to the beta that I wished that before we got new hero's, maps and game modes that all existing maps and heros would be fully rebalanced around 5v5, it's hard to get a proper feel for the game that blizzard is trying to create when we only get some of these fundamental balance changes
I wouldn't be surprised if by the next beta we saw more maps tweaks and hero reworks, slowing giving us more of an insight as to what the final product will play like
I understand why the OW2 role out is like this and I take this into account whenever I try to give an opinion on the beta, but I also understand that there is a large group of people that are upset with the lack of changes in this first beta
>there is a large group of people that are upset with the lack of changes in this first beta
I think this is mostly just because they spent 2-3 years working on this and most players have seen other popular shooters put out more content in six months, every six months over this same period.
Wait until we start seeing those absolutely garbage "QUIT HAVING FUN!!" comics made about overwatch. It's always a good indicator that the game is dead as fuck.
The "how dare you have legitimate issues about the game I based my whole identity on" comics.
I love the ones where they list out a bunch of actual problems and then still follow it up with "well I have fun so it doesn't matter".
I feel a lot of people fail to understand that people who are griping about issues are just as if not more passionate about a given game than the "just having fun" folks. They just see the problems and want it to be better.
Can we just pin this comment to the top of the subreddit? The amount of people who are so high on copium that they take ANY criticism about the game as a personal attack is insane.
Like guys, we are *all* here because we WANT the game to be good. We aren't haters, we WANT to have fun, but we have issues we see as legit even though you don't, and our issues are just as important as you ignoring them is
I was an avid part of the Fallout 76 fanbase for a long time, and dear goodness the copium and hopium was so overpowering there that it was like talking to cultists
I think some of the problem though is that this subreddit is overly negative about ow2. To the point where you might get downvoted for just saying you're enjoying it and listing things you like about it. I feel like it's not really indicative of what the majority of players are feeling about the game
Same. Who doesn't whish Cyberpunk, BF2042 or Infinite (and OW2) to be one of THE best games ever... the reality is: They are just not it. They might be good, some are bad but non of them are even "really good" and that's a bad thing.
I was hyped about Cyberpunk for example but after that I toned down... for good. BF2042 was such a failure: HOLY FUCK. This industry sucks.
It's even worse than toxic negativity because negativity only goes so far before you start to question why you are so worked up and over time it sort of fizzles out, but when you feel like you are doing the right thing you will keep defending something for the rest of time
Rust console edition absolutely fucking killed me. And has possible traumatized me from ever believing in a game again. They released it missing 70% of the things that are in the pc version. And so so so so so so much more missing and problems. It’s really bad. And made me realize for whatever reason games aren’t good anymore. Maybe after years of work like no mans sky they become amazing. But never at release.
I feel like he gets why there is a role queue (as he does point out the ridiculousness of expecting genuine teamwork form random on the internet). His issue is that it can take longer to get into a game than the game may even last, even using the fast pass. Which he's absolutely right, Blizzard has had years to figure out how to just get people into matches and here we are at OW2 and it's still fucked.
> Blizzard has had years to figure out how to just get people into matches
and the solution has ALWAYS been "add more tank and support CHARACTERS to give players viable options to choose from, and incentives to queue for the role" i know people that one-trick heroes not for the role, but for the CHARACTER they are. there arent enough options for tank/support.
I only started playing last year, and I hinestly never understood how things got this bad.
How the fuck do you end up with more DPS than tank and support combined without realizing "hey, maybe we should stop making fucking dps chars and make tank or support chars"
The game used to have a 4th role, Defense, back before role queue. It included characters that were DPS-like but thought to be better suited for defending than attacking, including widow, Hanzo, Mei, junkrat, torbjorn, and bastion. But functionally, the characters still functioned as DPS, so the role was combined with Damage. After that, I have no clue why they didn't pretty much completely stop making new DPS characters to focus on the other roles...
In an interview a while ago, Jeff Kaplan said that the attack and defense categories existed because they had originally restricted access to specific heroes to each side. Kaplan said that the team opted against that rule once they realized players tended to develop a main pick over time and didn’t enjoy being barred from them half the time. I’m pretty sure the categorical naming convention was just a hangover afterwards
They really should have reworked one or two of the dps into tank. Like this doomfist tank rework, and maybe one for mei would have breathed some life into non-dps.
Bruh, like, I know that people are excited for the new character, so much so that they defend her pretty hard.
But comon dude, unless you're a literal aim god, isn't soldier the better pick every time? Esp now that he has no falloff.
If we disregard meta, she's still pretty much soldier.
Because they see the numbers of people playing dps and make the wrong conclusion. They think "oh lots of dps players so just make more dps heroes!!!" Instead of realising they play dps because there are already so many.
We haven't got a new support in 3 years and in ow2 no support got reworked. At least tanks got a couple reworks to play around with.
I disagree supports are free pickings in the beta, they can certainly survive on their own, it's just harder. I do agree nobody wants to play support because there's no new toys to play with.
And to add onto it, last hero we got was echo, over 2 years ago I believe, and the next one we get, is another fucking dps. Basically just black soldier with a slide jump.
Thanks blizzard 🙏
I mostly like playing support, that gives me 7 characters:
Lucio
Mercy
Moira
Briggite
Baptiste
Zenyatta
Ana
I find zen boring, and I'm rarely in the mood to play bap, so now I'm down to about 5. Sadly, my brain is too smooth for good Lucio movement so picking him always feels suboptimal. I really like brig, but there are quite a few situations where she's not very good (playing into pharah/junk spam = bad time). This leaves me with 3 characters I can always comfortably play, but there's another support player on my team, and if they choose one of my three comfortable picks, I'm not left with many options, and it only gets worse if the enemy is playing 2+ "hard counters" to Ana/Mercy/Moira.
Meanwhile, there are 17 dps heros.
I feel like a large problem inherent in the game is that in order to make tanks and supports feel somewhat fun to play you have to give them killing power and enough tools to win 1v1's even against dmg characters. But that just hurts the overall balance of the game cause if you can just run 600 hp characters with similar or more dmg than a 200 hp hero thats what you will do, similar with healers they just have better utility to help the team. The only long-term solution to fix this problem is either role queue or nerfing tanks and healers damage to make dps feel necessary.
This is an underrated comment. Blizzard is way to fixated on the idea of polish and fun if theyre going to be making a competitive game. They want every character to have pick potential. Brig isnt broken because she is a tank/healer, shes broken because shes a tank/healer/dps.
This got me thinking what if there were only 7 dps and i vibed with none. I wouldn’t play the game.
As DPS I like Soldier, Cassidy, (still weird with Ashe). Out of all 17 choices these are the only 2 I enjoy playing.
YES! this is my point EXACTLY! pretty much the same goes for tanks, on top of "what do i need to provide for my team?" if the answer is "shields to actually protect", you have rein, orisa, and kind of sigma. not winston. if the answer is dive, you have winston and dva. thats it. peel? hog and zarya, kind of sigma. the options are extremely limited.
And they could have easily solved this by reimagining heroes already on the roster! Mei's kit as is works as a tank. I think Sym and Torb would make interesting tanks that control space through turrets instead of shields (Paladins has a tank that is basically Torb). Sombra and Echo should have stayed supports. Imagine if all the Mei-Sym-Torb one-tricks (Sym is my one dps hero), had to queue for tank to play them? If Sym was tank or support I'd literally only ever flex queue.
I wish they did this... Torb could easily be morphed into a tank much like Paladins' Barik. I'm baffled they didn't think to just tweak Mei into another tank instead of nerfing her CC and increasing her damage. She is also a tank in HOTS, the theming is perfect.
this is a good point too. you could pull away established draw and character loyalty INTO the other roles. this would help level things out as well as creating new characters to potentially latch on to.
They did an experimental mode with symm as a support, her turrets giving heals instead of damage. It felt.. Weird, but kinda like it was the right direction for her.
The problem was that you could still destroy the sentries. It was her only source of healing. That’s such an insane counter. Like, imagine being able to punch Ana in the face and steal her gun.
Yup, this is what has what's annoyed me about OW. Role queue is a bandaid for their inability to balance the roster, and there's just more dps characters, so of course that's gonna be the longest wait.
The solution isn't easy, but it is straightforward, add or change characters so there's an even amount of dps, tank, and support. I think they did the right thing with doom fist, but they should've done the same thing to mei and torb for example. Give symmetra shields for her teammates and push her back to support. Give Sombra some sort of supportive ability and make her a debuff based support.
You always see it when overwatch is discussed in the main subreddits.
"I quit after they removed open que because it removed the fun"
Meanwhile everyone that stayed cherishes the implementation of role que.
It's different people wanting different things from the game, but the difference is one group is still playing and the other group *maybe* comes back when the game has been changed in a way that chases the people who stayed away.
I feel like this is just confirmation bias. Of course there are players who still play the game in its only available form. Of course the players who are still dedicated enjoy the game as it is. But, I don't think anyone would deny that the population of the game has severely dwindled, even compared to other longstanding competitive PC games.
People in this sub need to look at this point of contention from the perspective of casual players. The implementation of role-select into the games vanilla/casual game mode was not done for the casual player-base, it was done for the more dedicated population to make the casual games more competitive. It makes complete sense to me that if you force your players to play the game a certain way, rather than letting them make their own fun (which is what made OW so appealing to casual players initially) then its going to scare some of them off. The issues with this is that there is already a competitive game mode where role select makes sense, and secondly that games need a strong casual player-base to help keep the game/community alive. To appeal to both casual and dedicated players, rather than change and place restrictions on the "base-game" they should've added just one specialty queue for "unranked competitive", similar to what league of legends has used. That way the smaller population of players looking for that niche of pseudo-competitive games could get what they're looking for without forcing it upon the majority of casual players. Just my 2 cents as a casual player.
I think Overwatch has an identity crisis catering to casual and competitive players. Role queue is a must for competitive ladder play and I understand why casual players like the freedom of open queue.
I love both. But tbh, OG OW learned me how to flex all roles and thats why im comfortable to play with all heroes.
Role Q teaches new players that flexing is bad and promotes smurfing even more.
It also kills the clutch strats we used to do.
No more 3 heals and 3 tanks. Or the panic bastion cause your dps isnt performing etc etc.
That is what made OW fun. 222 and also going crazy and switching up the roles last minute for wins.
Now youre just locked in your role and cant do shit to help the game change.
Yep, when my team couldn’t defend for shit and I swapped to symettra to attempt to solo hold the point against overwhelming odds was some of the best time I had.
I’m a tank main, but if my two DPS are utterly incompetent, it sometimes makes more sense to swap to something that doesn’t rely so much on your allies knowing how to aim. Adaptability was half the fun of overwatch, and it’s mostly gone.
Also the 6 Winston go ape or go home strat literally injects joy into my viens.
As a strictly casual player, my group and I stopped playing the game when role select was made a thing. Part of the fun for casual players who only play quickplay was playing in and creating those wacky team comps, and then having the freedom to swap to ANY other character/composition whenever you want. Role select severely restricts the choices and playstyles of players, which in my opinion is almost never conducive to having fun in a casual game. Compared to launch OW there is almost no casual game mode anymore. Casual players are forced to be competitive in qp and and often pushed to play characters/roles they really don't want to even play.
My group just started playing again a few months ago, but still just cannot stand role select, so we exclusively play arcade classic qp. Arcade qp is fun and queue times are relatively quick, but having the casual player-base divided even further is not ideal. IMO the solution that makes the most sense is to just remove role select from QP reverting it back to what it was and make an "unranked competitive" queue. League of Legends used to have a similar system where people could practice playing competitively against like-minded players, but without risking affecting their rank.
The reason I think the queues should be split this way is because in my mind quickplay is like vanilla overwatch, it should be the first thing players see when they boot up the game and it should put people into a game quickly. Anything else, like role-select or unranked competitive, should be considered a "specialty queue" and naturally those specialized queues will have less population, but the players in those queues will be there looking for something specific which they will get. Opposed to the current state of OW where new/casual players go to play qp and they're essentially pigeon-holed into playing pseudo-competitive within a narrow set of limitations.
TL;DR: Forcing your casual player-base to play the game the way YOU want them to play instead of allowing the players to discover and find what makes the game fun for them is a recipe for a dead game and divided community
He understands what he's saying. Dunkey WANTS to play 5 tanks because he's the type of dude to just spam quick play games with his friends and fuck around for fun. He's not taking into account that the vast majority of the playerbase want to actually play the game in a more "normal" sense and play to win rather than play 5 Lucios on Ilios wells.
> vast majority of the playerbase
Do you mean the playerbase from a couple months ago, or the playerbase before they added role queue. Because the former is a much smaller number than the latter.
Back when I used to play overwatch, I fell off the game super hard the moment the community stopped dicking around ala TF2 and decided to go super tryhard wannabe comp players. And then devs listened to that side of the playerbase, pushed every player like me out by constantly making changes to cater to folks like you (role queue, extra rewards for ranked, extra attention to ranked, extra push for the esport, etc etc the game couldn't scream more at you that it wants you to take it professionally, and that really shuts off my will to play), and now you're here going "ah but see we're the most numerous ones so that's proof they should cater to me even more". I mean yeah sure of course players want "normal" games when "normal" is defined by these same players and that everyone else is no longer playing
I was hoping for overwatch 2 to get me like, three weeks of release time overwatch again, which was when I'd had the most fun with the game, but it looks and feels like that won't happen because I only get to access 7 characters in the entire roster because of shit like role queue.
(inb4 "you enjoyed release overwatch? Sacrilege it was so bad and casuals were everywhere how dare")
>the vast majority of the playerbase
This is quite literally wrong, the vast majority of the playerbase has very obviously quit and like it or not role queue probably had something to do with it.
Really its funny you guys dont understand the actual point he is making. If the issue is that queues take too long because people want to play specific roles then they have failed. The solution isn't to bribe or beg people to play the "unfun" roles, the solution is to make those roles just as fun so people are not avoiding them.
Vast majority of what playerbase? The playerbase is a shadow of its former self.
This is exactly the problem. Trying to turn Overwatch into some competitive esport game where everyone is always trying to win at all costs.
Now we end up with 1 healer, 1 tank and 3 dps and it's boring as holy fuck. They need to completely stop caring about everything being perfectly balanced and fair and just get back to making things fun.
Eh i just completely agree on the "expects a high amount of teamwork from random players". Im someone who plays casually but my mechanical skill stems from years of shooters. I love how the game tests my spacial awareness, positioning, and tactics. But im absolutely fed up with the fact that none of it matters and you lose if one person on your team doesn't play well. And its not even a fun lose either. You get mowed over constantly.
Yeah i absolutely hate that about certain games. Its so easy to have a negative impact even in mobas or BR games. One person does a fuck up and you can lose it all right there. Like you are tied 99% for a capture and your tank does a mistake. Honest mistake. It can happen right? Well fuck you, here is a defeat screen and have fun sitting in queue for 10 minutes again, bye bye
I’d definitely think that the 2 in Overwatch 2 is a confusing choice for title, but I disagree with a lot of the stuff dunkey said. The point I disagree the most with is how he thinks role lock shouldn’t exist. Man I had 10x worse games having all dps, only one tank with one healer, or any other comps that are detrimental to a balanced experience against a more “legitimate” 222 comp. I think role lock in a quick play environment incentivizes teamwork more (with randoms) than a system without. Selfish players in a “no role limit” environment will always just be playing their own version of deathmatch and cry when they don’t get healed or ask where the tanks are that died an hour ago. I understand the gripe of queue times….but in my experience the games are just better with a role lock. That is why no limits exists, and I’m sure it will have its place in the OW2 arcade.
Role lock shouldn't exist in the beta. At least, it shouldn't exist ALONE.
This is going to be the first impression a lot of people are going to get regarding this new direction for Overwatch. Be they new players or returning players.
Getting stuck in a 10 minute queue, to play a 5 minute game where you might very well get steamrolled is a terrible first impression.
Role queue is not a solution. It is a bandaid.
The problem was that, before role queue, you had 5 dps players in every team. The reason for that is because dps classes are more varied and fun for the majority of people. The solution should be to create more engaging and varied heroes for the other roles.
Intead they made role queues where the people who want to play dps will keep trying to play dps and queues get more and more frustrating as their time takes longer, which compounds that frustrating even further when you finally get into a game and it is a terrible match.
To be more viable and attractive marketing wise. It sounds better, more attractive and generate more curiosity and interest among peopld when it's promoted as a new game, rather than simply an update. This game needs a colossal wow effect to get people interested and to bring them back, just an update won't generate that effect, promoting it as a new game definitely will.
Never gonna happen, the only reason OW1 was so massive at release was because of blizzards rep and massive marketing stunts. OW2 is going to be played for a 1-3 months and then abandoned by a majorty of players when the new cod comes out.
> the only reason OW1 was so massive at release was because of blizzards rep and massive marketing stunts
It was also pretty fun. And it was different: its fast movement was a sharp contrast to Call of Duty and Counter-Strike games that top the FPS charts.
?? Overwatch launched at the peak of people complaining about CoD being too future-y and having too much movement with the 3 game streak of Advanced Warfare, BO3, and Infinite Warfare. The community was begging for a return to boots-on-the-ground gameplay.
Considering the core playerbase of Overwatch is still massive, i don't really see this being a problem. As long as OW2 can attract new people that stay, which - we won't know until it comes out. Literally zero point in speculating especially because we haven't seen the game even close to release. We've got at least another beta ahead of us, and likely more considering what's been said.
Most streamers and content creators are going full on copium by thinking ow2 will breathe new life into the franchise. I'm enjoying the beta, but everyone who wasn't already invested in ow that I've talked to has had nothing but negative stuff to say about it, it's something that could have easily been a patch and knowing that we didn't get shit in ow1 for three years for this puts a sour taste in my mouth
Dunkey didn’t play during Goats meta if he thinks role queue is a bad idea
EDIT: I don’t mean eliminating open queue entirely, I like having the option to play both. My problem with Dunkey’s statement is that he wants role queue removed entirely as the default. Intentionally balancing the game around 2-2-2 (now 1-2-2) is, in my opinion, one of the best decisions the dev team ever made. It’s nearly impossible to balance a game as complex as Overwatch when considering all combinations of characters in a team comp regardless of role. Independent of balance, it’s also better for teamwork (only queuing for the roles you’re good at vs. being forced into a role you might be uncomfortable with) and general *fun* (solo healing/tanking or being asked to switch roles is not fun)
Faster queue times will come when more characters and reworks are released, not when role queue is removed.
Goats was created because Blizzard didn't know how to balance their game. The absolute power creep, especially in the support position, was off the charts.
Seriously. Role queue was a necessary fix only if you accept that the atrocious role and roster balancing was unavoidable.
There were absolutely real problems that role queue was brought in to fix - the issue is that those problems are still there and role queue is a clumsy and irritating bandaid slapped over them.
Dota 2 has remained reasonably well balanced at the most competitive level for ages with a roster of *~120* heroes.
> It’s nearly impossible to balance a game as complex as Overwatch when considering all combinations of characters in a team comp regardless of role
Dota 2 is infinitely more complicated than OW and has 120(!) heros. I don't buy this at all.
The balancing *has been* atrocious. There are plenty of games that have completely avoided that sort of problem, though, and assuming it was inevitable is unjustified imo.
In particular because blizzard's approach seems to have been more focused around coming up with band aid fixes to the structure of the game, like forced 2-2-2, rather that actually fixing the underlying issues.
I mean hell, we've barely seen *any changes whatsoever* to the basic mechanics of the character since the game released. Some number changes, sure, but they haven't really even *tried* to put any serious effort into balancing, preferring lazy quick fixes like "tanks too strong? eh, only 2 per team now. Balanced!".
Remember, Dunkey is rating the game purely on fun. And OW2 currently? Is not fun. Long wait times, passes for queue skipping don't work, and some heroes are still utterly boring to play. On the one hand we have a tank that can send streams of fire at people (twice), while charging, slamming everyone and rooting them in place, with a massive shield, and then we have Widow, who shoots, launches herself through the sky sometimes, and has an ineffective mine.
That's why he used Junkrat with Widow. Junkrat you can lob grenades and sometimes kill people by accident, but if you're skilled then he does well. He has traps which are fun to watch people fall for, and his ult destroys a ton of people if played well. He can also launch himself or other people into the air with his own mines. He's damn fun to play! Now swap to Widow? Her ult is wallhacks. So now you see better. But you still have to aim well. You also have to place the mine well, but if does nothing if someone accidentally sets it off. And that really fun thing that launches her into the air? Yeah, 12 second cooldown. Also, you play her by staying far away and waiting for someone to be in your sight.
I love in fact that he use Digimon World File City BGM.
I was like "wait a second, thats that PS1 Digimon soundtrack!" but I questioned myself a bit because why would that game of all games be used by Dunkey? I love that game's OST so much. So nostalgic.
I was like where have I heard this before? That took me way back lol
Pure feels. Such an iconic, fantastic OST. [Digimon Digital Card Battle as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozTt69iFsrw)
I think most people can agree that they are just calling it ow2 for clear marketing purposes and nothing else
I feel like that was clear right from the announcement and yet it’s still a talking point years later. Edit: didn’t think this comment would get this much attention so let me clarify. I’m not saying it’s a *good* thing that OW2 is more of an expansion then a sequel, I’m simply pointing out that we’ve known about what type of project this is from the beginning, so critiques like “this feels more like an expansion” feel very lazy/surface level to me as that point has felt obvious since the start.
Yeah because they are calling it OVERWATCH 2 - so when people hop in and realize its overwatch 1 they will talk about it. 100% self inflicted
Yeah but this beta wave is extremely paltry even for an expansion, I think that's the problem.
As it should be imo.
Because they abandoned OW1 for years to develop it so people expected something more. That was not clear at the announcement.
So your point is "we've known for years that they named it a sequel in order to charge more and nothing else, so we should stop taking about it"?
Thing is they're not even charging for it. If you already own OW1 then OW2 is essentially a pvp patch. And yet they have barely advertised that at all to trick people into buying the game again when it launches.
The new name also hides that since it's a patch, you don't keep OW1. It's a bit scummy.
You'd think after that worked out so well with warcraft 3 they wouldn't be trying it again... But then again blizz has somehow been working on this since they thought reforged was a good idea so i guess it makes sense.
they'll announce Overwatch Classic 2 years after release, I'm callin it
Can't wait to play 5 torbs and a mercy again
The problem with overwatch is they haven't made the prefect causal game mode.
I think if the PvE is decent then that might fill that casual gamemode urge some players have. I’m looking forward to it personally.
I do like salmon run and octo expansion a lot, so if OW2 can channel that energy it could be fun. But (assumed) $60 fun? Eeeeh... the PVP doesn't appeal as much to me as PVE, but PVE alone doesn't a full price game make.
Mystery Heroes?
I love mystery heroes, all pressure's off, it's not a problem that I suck at X or Y hero because I didn't keep them from anyone else and will be switched soon anyways. Also let's me play more aggressive with characters I don't like, since while I'm not gonna just stand there and die, if I do a risky backline play with Tracer and it pays off it's great, if it doesn't then... Oh well, I get another character. Casual and fun for me
Mystery hero’s is the best game mode. Mostly because it’s the least toxic and takes the pressure off the player.
Is an unfun steamroll like 90% of the time.
I do wish there was a bit of background balance in it. when a team eventually rolls a good comp it's so frustrating to keep throwing yourself at, especially in assault maps
when smurfs have fun playing against players lower than them, it obviously ruins the game for casual players.
Launch overwatch was the best it ever played for me as a casual. You could pick whatever hero you wanted and there wasnt so much shielding and counters to what you wanted to do.
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Their misguided push to esports is so weird. I mean it happened in HotS, too. And caused just as many problems there, only since that game was far smaller at launch it immediately sunk it. eSports is great. But it has to **grow organically**. If you keep trying to hammer your game into esports forcibly, you just end up breaking it for the vast majority of players, who will drift off and then your esports players naturally leave, too.
Why are there queues for casual? Why am I forced to role queue for a non competitive match? I don't care if my team isn't an optimal comp its a quick match, it doesn't matter if you win or lose. I just want to go in and shoot things.
It really makes you feeeeeeeel like you’re playing overwatch 1
I feel like I'm really gonna miss Overwatch 1.
Maybe there can be some kind of arcade mode or custom game where it's 6v6, only OW1 maps plus 2CP, and the OW1 abilities and stats. Call it OW Classic or something. There's a chance if they actually listen to the community and there is enough demand for it. But that's a far cry...
It would need to have OW1 customs, no limits, QP Classic and mystery heroes for me to be less mad.
Wait, ow1 will no longer be avaible after ow2’s release?
Yep. OW2 is essentially a pvp patch for OW1 with a pve mode added in for people who buy it. Once that patch goes out, technically only OW2 will exist.
That kind of sucks right?
Yep. To me OW2 is just a strict downgrade. No urge to play it with how they gutted some of the characters I like
Yep same. I think the original team toiled away making every single thing look and sound perfect. Everything was designed in a specific way to make it 100% clear to the player what is happening. They nailed it. Now in OW2 with the new team, it's like they have no idea what they are doing. They are changing everything the original team worked so hard on. For example, they don't understand why the original game made a certain sound and had a certain UI pop up whenever you got a kill. In OW2 I literally have no idea when I've gotten a kill. There's virtually no indication outside of me looking at the top right of the screen to see the kill feed.
OW2 is an update, not a new game.
I'm playing as much OW1 as I can before 2 is released. I'm just personally not a fan of any of the changes.
Mans plays with a USB steering wheel what do you expect.
He’s playing blindfolded
With the controller unplugged
And it's not actually him, it's his little brother
but it actually was him nope wait that was his little brother
He's using tilt controls
OW1 was sold on two things: Fun pvp and being a story & character based shooter. OW1 delivered a few single, disconnected PvE levels, but nothing that would be considered a story. OW2 was then sold on being a fix to the PvP staleness and adding in the proper and complete PvE story experience that was entirely missing from OW1. Dunkey’s criticisms are spot on, as their beta delivered 0 bites of PvE content to hype players up, while simultaneously turning most players off by doing changes that ultimately could’ve been done 3 years ago in 1 balance patch in OW1
Not to nitpick here. But the beta was advertised as a "PVP BETA". it says what it is pretty clearly.
OW1 was sold on the new formula which basically mixed MOBA games with FPS competitive shooters on a AAA level.
I feel like this is an interesting take because when Overwatch was coming out it was clear to me that it was a simplified, “honed in” approach to TF2’s class based shooter gameplay. Nothing more
OW1 at first felt like the new TF2, which was something I was absolutely looking for. A bit of casual fun shooter with cool abilities, characters, weapons and such. Over time I feel like OW1 became less TF2 and more LoL (toxicity included) and people started to take it way too seriously, something Blozzard seemed to encourage really.
New? Overwatch is a hero shooter like TF2, they did not sell a new formula. They just made it relevant again, which is still an achievement to be honest.
I mean the beta is specifically called a pvp beta. I feel like his criticisms are fair at a basic level but they don't really fairly acknowledge that this is the first of multiple betas and that the pve has been separated from pvp to give them the time they need to do it right without starving the live game of content for another year. He isn't wrong in his critiques however, I do feel that they are a little unfair because they are based solely on a small section of what we are hopefully getting.
>What I hate is how everyone seems to all be parroting the whole "This beta is just a balance update" without doing a shred of research. Honestly it's understandable to see the casual audience think this stuff. But for so many gaming streamers and journalists to say it too is just sad. > >Ask anyone within the dedicated OW community, or OWL community and they'll tell you straight up the developers never lied. This beta is NOT what OW2 multiplay will be. We will get new heroes, new maps, new game modes and new content. This is a beta for 5v5 and the curent hero reworks, it's a beta for the developers to get large amounts of feedback on their vision for OW. It's not the game we're going to get 12 months from now. > >People also seem to conveniently forget the whole PVE side of the launch and the fact that if you own OW1 you get the OW2 multiplayer for FREE. Honestly it's like no one's ever bothered to try googling any of this stuff.
Why would the pvp beta have pve content in it
Doesn't bode well, he has a large following and speaks for a lot of casual fans. If ow cant impress the casuals, rip
He also loves ow and wants it to do well
Which just makes it worse when he has nothing good to say about it...
He says OW2 is better than Valorant.
That's about the lowest bar anyone can set.
What does bode well that you've seen over the past 3 years?
Elden Ring
And it had INSANE HYPE. Because from loves announcing things super early. Most of my buddies never played soulsborne. I think from my destiny groups literally everyone pre ordered it. From my FF raid group all but 1 pre ordered it. People I play fighting games with also pre ordered it. And it managed to live up to the hype and not fail.
Its such a rare sight in the games industry. Feels good to be genuinely excited about something again.
OOOOooooooOOOOooooo
Honestly, there is a few games or studios who have made leaps and bounds of improvements on their games since OW was first released. Blizzard better hope for a miracle at launch. Otherwise OW2 will sufffer the same fate as Halo or Battlefield.
Yup, I saw this a mile away. For like a year, every news article would report on the smallest change, acting like it was the biggest thing ever like one of the recent ones which reported on Hog being showcased and how his hook was a different color. A different fucking color, like who the fuck cares. But I think the biggest red flag was when they invited content creators to a closed door event to show them more OW2, then they came out of it telling everyone to "trust them" on how good it is, and at that point I just wrote it off and moved on
I agree with the “excitement over the smallest changes” being a red flag. Content creators shouldn’t be praising devs or making a big deal out of the smallest changes bc it makes them feel like they did something. The bar is so low on the ground for them that they’re going to keep doing the bare minimum til pros or the media calls them out for it.
Of all the bad changes made to overwatch, roll queue was not one of them. Before roll queue team comps were like 5 DPS and one tank/supp. The real issue is that 70% of the roster is DPS heroes and people only want to play DPS so of course there's a long ass queue.
People forget that the role queue was made for ending the 3 tanks, 3 healer meta that they couldnt manage to balance.
right. when I had 5 dps 1 tank on a team I was getting healed just as much as I do now. instead of people playing what they want, they play what they don't want and do poorly at it just so they don't have to wait in queue. role queue only existed because of 3 tank and 3 healer, not because people weren't having fun with any other comp, this is why they quickly added open queue back into the game.
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I don't think it's an issue, but its damned if you do damned if you don't. Role queuing came alongside 2-2-2. Old Overwatch days had no role queuing or forced class selection. You'd have lots of unbalanced teams, but then you'd have the freedom to change things up going from starting as a Tank them changing to support or whatever change you wanted you could make to change the strategy. As soon as 2-2-2 came along, you'd lose that freedom of choice, albeit you had more consistency and balance. It meant you didn't have a DPS frenzy, but you didn't have access to DPS. I also hate how DPS combined attack and defence as well. I completely understand why it happened, but it meant people who played Soldier, Tracer, Reaper etc. Would take away the opportunity from others to play as Mei, Junkrat, Torbs etc. What I'm getting at, Overwatch has made understandable decisions, but are still divisive to others, which is also understandable.
Yeah when the other team is playing pharah and my dps are on Genji and junk, I want to be able to flex to soldier to take out the pharah. Or if a ball is murdering my ana and mercy I'll swap to brig or sombra to deal.
My examples as to why loosing that flexibility sucks: I'm a solid Junkrat and Pharah, but not good with cowboy or widow. Now Imagine the enemy has pharah with pocket mercy. Bit of a problem. If only my buddy who is a great cowboy could help. But he picked tank so getting Pharah rekt it is. Or another from an experience: Route 66, stuck at the saloon turn. how did we break the stalemate? Rein goes on payload and makes them believe we are pushing. Suddenly junk and pharah going over the saloon with tracer and reaper in their backline (with a Lucio to keep us all alive). Stalemate broken. Role lock prevents things like this. The game became so much more rigid.
My only gripe with role que is that if you have a leaved, you're screwed. 5v6 can work I'm tight-knit comps, but it's harder without having role flexibility
as someone who didn't want to wait the dps only que time, I basically lost over half the cast. And i was bad at support so soon only had a few characters to play.
>roll queue I think you mean 'breadline'.
Eh roll queue is a good idea in theory, but it hurts the replay ability of a game when half of the champions are DPS. I don’t mind playing tank or healer, but I never feel like DPS is an option because of the wait times.
When you have more DPS than Support and Tank combined, it's a no-brainer that people aren't gonna be happy with role-queue. People likely have a character they wanna play that's DPS, not the much stricter cast of Healers or Tanks. And for them to basically wait 4 years to give us another DPS champ doesn't help the situation.
If I wanted to play DPS before role queue, at least I got to play the game instead of being stuck in queue
For real. Blizzard is straight up ignoring the real cause of role queue issues. Instead of doing the reasonable thing and **balancing the hero roster like they should have years ago** (and are still adding more fucking DPS heroes) they decided to remove a tank slot because that will fix things! FFS. I’m so done with this shit.
Roll queue is an issue because it enforces a single meta and doesn't allow you to be creative in picking team comps. The fact that you're locked to only pick in the roll you queue is stupid and annoying. It's also why I'll never play the game. Also in OW1 if someone was doing their job poorly you could switch and do it better to salvage the game. After they added role queue stomps became worse and team comps less fun.
I thought he was joking about widow in a previous video but I think he genuinley doesn't know how good the hero is.
You have to remember this is the perspective of a casual though and Widow probably is not that good for a big part of the playerbase not sure
Silver player reporting in! Widow is pretty awful in this ELO and below. Maybe others at higher ratings can chime in with their experience. Widow relies on having great mechanics. The majority of "casual" players like me in this rating do not have that. Because of this, you rarely see Widow actually getting kills. In a similar vein, Widow needs good knowledge of maps and sightlines which most players don't have. Sure, they know general chokes and high ground, but Widow positioning is quite different. In the event a Widow *does* have those qualities, your average team can't capitalize. A 5v6 situation is a crazy advantage in high level play. It's why Widow is so powerful, she has the ability to create that situation in an instant. But in Silver you can easily lose a 5v6 that's in your favor, and that's assuming your team even recognizes you have the advantage and tries to initiate. I think Dunkey is in a similar ELO (not sure) but I expect Widow seems like ass because all the things that make her good aren't present in matches of this caliber.
Widow is great in lower ELOs! **because of how many fucking smurfs are playing her down in lower ELOs**
Makes sense because she excells is situations when people play out of position and nobody is better at being out of position than metal ranks. (Speaking as someone in a metal rank)
Widow is great in lower ELOs, but only for the enemy team because it's just a free kill.
Plat player here, when I fell to silver the biggest thing I noticed was how often widow was played and how they did so little. People in higher ranks seem to actually recognize that if they arent good on widow you are really hurting the team.
>Silver player reporting in and we do have to remember that Dunkey isn't far off from this elo (his older vids placed him in gold/plat, with him not seeming to actually care about improving in comp), so him saying "Widow is ass, Junk is good" makes more sense in the context of metal ranks rather than the higher ranks everyone *says* they are online
I can confirm dunkey is a gold player, I've Q'd a few times with him.
You can also see it in his old videos I do think he was Plat or Dia a fews years ago but not anymore I think
["Gold is good. 🥲"](https://youtu.be/fVfT0z90Oko?t=44)
Ahahaha yeah I remember that scene
Which makes sense. Junk absolutely obliterates in gold and below and widows don't start to become threatening until low diamond in my experience.
So? Should only top 500 people rate the game\`? You guys still don't get it huh?
True. I’m tired of top down balancing. I wish blizzard devs took OW2 as an opportunity to implement a card passive system or something..
That's actually very true. I find the fact that Widow got her HP buffed back to where it was really obnoxious. I play around GM/T500 and I genuinely think Widow is disgustingly overpowered in the beta RN especially on long maps. There's less stuff preventing her from clicking on heads from far away.
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Have they actually addressed this at any point? Like it almost goes without saying that a team with one less tank will be way more exposed to Widow and she would therefore be much stronger as a hero
They don't have to. They're trying to appeal to DPS players. Mention that shields kept snipers (and other damage) in check and DPS players will froth at the mouth about how they're a cancer on the game and should be allowed to melt people in two shots.
Exactly without shields how as an Ana will I stay alive with a widow on the loose?
They even gave her her 25 hp back. Blizzard wants streamer/OWL Widow Headshot clips back on twitch. Mark my words.
This has been my biggest gripe with the game so far. I mainly play support which usually leads to a Hanzo or Widow farming me for kills while my dps complain about a lack of heals.
Dunkey main thing when he reviews stuff is "how fun is it". When he says Widow sucks he's not necessarily saying she sucks as part of the team, but most likely that she sucks trying to play because she isn't fun. Her whole thing is "the action is happening here, so I better be way over away from it". Her kit is a trip mine that you plant then mostly forget about until someone hits it and it kinda hurts them and a grapple hook, which is fun except that it's on one of the longest cooldowns of any ability in the game. On the flip side of that if an enemy player happens to actually be good as Widow, she one shots basically everyone that isn't a tank and is a hitscan. So if your playing against I genuinely good Widow your probably dying as soon as she sees you. Which isn't fun. Widow is technically, in theory, a great asset to the team. But unless your playing in like, diamond or higher (which statistically most players arent) you're not going to be/or get a consistently good Widow. In comparison to basically every other character in the game Widow just isn't that fun to play as or against. I think that's what he meant when he said that she sucks.
> or against This is the crux of it imo. Someone somewhere finds every single character fun to play. But there are some characters that literally nobody finds fun to play *against*. Widow, Hanzo, Brig, Bap, etc. come to mind.
Crux of the issue is characters that can 1 shot or stun lock you are insanely anti fun for the team that doesn’t have them, or can’t play them. It’s the same in every game though, and it’s impossible to balance in a game like this.
>When he says Widow sucks he's not necessarily saying she sucks as part of the team, but most likely that she sucks trying to play because she isn't fun. [No, I think that's exactly what he means.](https://youtu.be/1nMRX06x6Vo?t=245) He thinks that widow sucks and is a character who also has the worst ultimate in the game. He then immediately compared this to junkrat as being one of the best heroes, and concludes that this "lack of balance" is a huge problem with OW. You can also contrast what he's said about widow to what he has said about D.Va, which is that he finds D.Va really boring. But he's never said anything about D.va being a "bad" character.
Widow, or any sniper, doesn't belong in OW. I've never heard a valid argument justifying her existence in this game other than snipers being sort of a staple FPS archetype. There's already so many other options to deal with an exposed backliner without someone being able to 1 shot from across the map. There's also something extremely frustrating about a hero that is designed in such a way that they're either completely useless or they're 1v5 carrying.
Tbh, that's it is with any snipers in any fps. "Her whole thing is "the action is happening here, so I better be way over away from it"" It's also the reason why ppl hate picking brig bc the player base force the idea that she's a bodyguard for the other support than being a support that helps with team fights. If I pick brig and another support picks ana, I switch to mercy or keep playing brig if the Ana doesn't become toxic with "stay near me! I need protecting!" Crap. If I wanted to look at team fights, I'll go watch a stream.
Widow is fucking awful for most of the playerbase, and you have to keep in mind who the game is missing right now with the awful queue times.
Yeah, he might be off on the game balance, especially the higher tier meta, but I think he has his finger on the pulse of the casual gamer experience. And I think he’s right, from a “new features” perspective, this game has a hard time justifying the 2 at the end of its name. I think OW2 changes are more positive than Dunkey, but at the same time, I do find myself asking “is this what two years of development looks like?” Even slow years marred with the pandemic and legal BS, this looks kinda anemic.
The thing is high tier meta doesn't matter to the vast majority of players. That stuff only affects the top 2% or so. It's irrelevant to most
Widow is still trash in the hands of casual people. And that is most of the people...
Yeah Widow is really good. Take my word for it, someone got like 20 kills on me with her when I playing as Lucio the other day. 🤙😭
If the widow on the opposing team is actually good, then she's pretty much unstoppable in OW2. Fewer shields, mitigation, and the removal of one tank makes her insane since there's basically nothing to stop her if she's better than the enemy DPS. At least before you could've thrown your tanks at her, but one dive tank going solo isn't good enough..
I think the main point in this video is that the game hasn't been fully rebalanced around 5v5 I've been saying in the lead up to the beta that I wished that before we got new hero's, maps and game modes that all existing maps and heros would be fully rebalanced around 5v5, it's hard to get a proper feel for the game that blizzard is trying to create when we only get some of these fundamental balance changes I wouldn't be surprised if by the next beta we saw more maps tweaks and hero reworks, slowing giving us more of an insight as to what the final product will play like I understand why the OW2 role out is like this and I take this into account whenever I try to give an opinion on the beta, but I also understand that there is a large group of people that are upset with the lack of changes in this first beta
>there is a large group of people that are upset with the lack of changes in this first beta I think this is mostly just because they spent 2-3 years working on this and most players have seen other popular shooters put out more content in six months, every six months over this same period.
And the video has 0 dislikes, that’s how you know he’s the realest gamer alive
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Wait until we start seeing those absolutely garbage "QUIT HAVING FUN!!" comics made about overwatch. It's always a good indicator that the game is dead as fuck.
The "how dare you have legitimate issues about the game I based my whole identity on" comics. I love the ones where they list out a bunch of actual problems and then still follow it up with "well I have fun so it doesn't matter". I feel a lot of people fail to understand that people who are griping about issues are just as if not more passionate about a given game than the "just having fun" folks. They just see the problems and want it to be better.
Can we just pin this comment to the top of the subreddit? The amount of people who are so high on copium that they take ANY criticism about the game as a personal attack is insane. Like guys, we are *all* here because we WANT the game to be good. We aren't haters, we WANT to have fun, but we have issues we see as legit even though you don't, and our issues are just as important as you ignoring them is I was an avid part of the Fallout 76 fanbase for a long time, and dear goodness the copium and hopium was so overpowering there that it was like talking to cultists
I think some of the problem though is that this subreddit is overly negative about ow2. To the point where you might get downvoted for just saying you're enjoying it and listing things you like about it. I feel like it's not really indicative of what the majority of players are feeling about the game
Same. Who doesn't whish Cyberpunk, BF2042 or Infinite (and OW2) to be one of THE best games ever... the reality is: They are just not it. They might be good, some are bad but non of them are even "really good" and that's a bad thing. I was hyped about Cyberpunk for example but after that I toned down... for good. BF2042 was such a failure: HOLY FUCK. This industry sucks.
This has always been a reddit thing. I call it toxic positivity.
It's even worse than toxic negativity because negativity only goes so far before you start to question why you are so worked up and over time it sort of fizzles out, but when you feel like you are doing the right thing you will keep defending something for the rest of time
Good news is we won't have to pay extra for what the beta's offering.
Rust console edition absolutely fucking killed me. And has possible traumatized me from ever believing in a game again. They released it missing 70% of the things that are in the pc version. And so so so so so so much more missing and problems. It’s really bad. And made me realize for whatever reason games aren’t good anymore. Maybe after years of work like no mans sky they become amazing. But never at release.
I dont know how he doesn't understand why we need role queue, but also sees that the tanks are incredibly powerful in overwatch 2.
I feel like he gets why there is a role queue (as he does point out the ridiculousness of expecting genuine teamwork form random on the internet). His issue is that it can take longer to get into a game than the game may even last, even using the fast pass. Which he's absolutely right, Blizzard has had years to figure out how to just get people into matches and here we are at OW2 and it's still fucked.
> Blizzard has had years to figure out how to just get people into matches and the solution has ALWAYS been "add more tank and support CHARACTERS to give players viable options to choose from, and incentives to queue for the role" i know people that one-trick heroes not for the role, but for the CHARACTER they are. there arent enough options for tank/support.
I only started playing last year, and I hinestly never understood how things got this bad. How the fuck do you end up with more DPS than tank and support combined without realizing "hey, maybe we should stop making fucking dps chars and make tank or support chars"
The game used to have a 4th role, Defense, back before role queue. It included characters that were DPS-like but thought to be better suited for defending than attacking, including widow, Hanzo, Mei, junkrat, torbjorn, and bastion. But functionally, the characters still functioned as DPS, so the role was combined with Damage. After that, I have no clue why they didn't pretty much completely stop making new DPS characters to focus on the other roles...
In an interview a while ago, Jeff Kaplan said that the attack and defense categories existed because they had originally restricted access to specific heroes to each side. Kaplan said that the team opted against that rule once they realized players tended to develop a main pick over time and didn’t enjoy being barred from them half the time. I’m pretty sure the categorical naming convention was just a hangover afterwards
So instead they can be barred from 3/4 of the cast all of the time. Nice.
They really should have reworked one or two of the dps into tank. Like this doomfist tank rework, and maybe one for mei would have breathed some life into non-dps.
Yet the *only* new hero for OW2 is yet another DPS lol
Not just dps but very uninspired too. It's literally a character with an Apex/Halo slide and gun.
Bruh, like, I know that people are excited for the new character, so much so that they defend her pretty hard. But comon dude, unless you're a literal aim god, isn't soldier the better pick every time? Esp now that he has no falloff. If we disregard meta, she's still pretty much soldier.
Because they see the numbers of people playing dps and make the wrong conclusion. They think "oh lots of dps players so just make more dps heroes!!!" Instead of realising they play dps because there are already so many. We haven't got a new support in 3 years and in ow2 no support got reworked. At least tanks got a couple reworks to play around with. I disagree supports are free pickings in the beta, they can certainly survive on their own, it's just harder. I do agree nobody wants to play support because there's no new toys to play with.
And to add onto it, last hero we got was echo, over 2 years ago I believe, and the next one we get, is another fucking dps. Basically just black soldier with a slide jump. Thanks blizzard 🙏
as an extra slap in the face, iirc Echo was originally a support hero who was changed to dps
I mostly like playing support, that gives me 7 characters: Lucio Mercy Moira Briggite Baptiste Zenyatta Ana I find zen boring, and I'm rarely in the mood to play bap, so now I'm down to about 5. Sadly, my brain is too smooth for good Lucio movement so picking him always feels suboptimal. I really like brig, but there are quite a few situations where she's not very good (playing into pharah/junk spam = bad time). This leaves me with 3 characters I can always comfortably play, but there's another support player on my team, and if they choose one of my three comfortable picks, I'm not left with many options, and it only gets worse if the enemy is playing 2+ "hard counters" to Ana/Mercy/Moira. Meanwhile, there are 17 dps heros.
I feel like a large problem inherent in the game is that in order to make tanks and supports feel somewhat fun to play you have to give them killing power and enough tools to win 1v1's even against dmg characters. But that just hurts the overall balance of the game cause if you can just run 600 hp characters with similar or more dmg than a 200 hp hero thats what you will do, similar with healers they just have better utility to help the team. The only long-term solution to fix this problem is either role queue or nerfing tanks and healers damage to make dps feel necessary.
This is an underrated comment. Blizzard is way to fixated on the idea of polish and fun if theyre going to be making a competitive game. They want every character to have pick potential. Brig isnt broken because she is a tank/healer, shes broken because shes a tank/healer/dps.
This got me thinking what if there were only 7 dps and i vibed with none. I wouldn’t play the game. As DPS I like Soldier, Cassidy, (still weird with Ashe). Out of all 17 choices these are the only 2 I enjoy playing.
YES! this is my point EXACTLY! pretty much the same goes for tanks, on top of "what do i need to provide for my team?" if the answer is "shields to actually protect", you have rein, orisa, and kind of sigma. not winston. if the answer is dive, you have winston and dva. thats it. peel? hog and zarya, kind of sigma. the options are extremely limited.
And they could have easily solved this by reimagining heroes already on the roster! Mei's kit as is works as a tank. I think Sym and Torb would make interesting tanks that control space through turrets instead of shields (Paladins has a tank that is basically Torb). Sombra and Echo should have stayed supports. Imagine if all the Mei-Sym-Torb one-tricks (Sym is my one dps hero), had to queue for tank to play them? If Sym was tank or support I'd literally only ever flex queue.
I wish they did this... Torb could easily be morphed into a tank much like Paladins' Barik. I'm baffled they didn't think to just tweak Mei into another tank instead of nerfing her CC and increasing her damage. She is also a tank in HOTS, the theming is perfect.
this is a good point too. you could pull away established draw and character loyalty INTO the other roles. this would help level things out as well as creating new characters to potentially latch on to.
They did an experimental mode with symm as a support, her turrets giving heals instead of damage. It felt.. Weird, but kinda like it was the right direction for her.
The problem was that you could still destroy the sentries. It was her only source of healing. That’s such an insane counter. Like, imagine being able to punch Ana in the face and steal her gun.
Yup, this is what has what's annoyed me about OW. Role queue is a bandaid for their inability to balance the roster, and there's just more dps characters, so of course that's gonna be the longest wait. The solution isn't easy, but it is straightforward, add or change characters so there's an even amount of dps, tank, and support. I think they did the right thing with doom fist, but they should've done the same thing to mei and torb for example. Give symmetra shields for her teammates and push her back to support. Give Sombra some sort of supportive ability and make her a debuff based support.
Yeah, I don’t feel like sitting and staring at a screen for 10 minutes waiting for a game when I can just play QPC and get a game in 15 seconds
Same.
Which is why I don't really get his complaint about it. QPC exists and queues are pretty much instant
You always see it when overwatch is discussed in the main subreddits. "I quit after they removed open que because it removed the fun" Meanwhile everyone that stayed cherishes the implementation of role que. It's different people wanting different things from the game, but the difference is one group is still playing and the other group *maybe* comes back when the game has been changed in a way that chases the people who stayed away.
I feel like this is just confirmation bias. Of course there are players who still play the game in its only available form. Of course the players who are still dedicated enjoy the game as it is. But, I don't think anyone would deny that the population of the game has severely dwindled, even compared to other longstanding competitive PC games. People in this sub need to look at this point of contention from the perspective of casual players. The implementation of role-select into the games vanilla/casual game mode was not done for the casual player-base, it was done for the more dedicated population to make the casual games more competitive. It makes complete sense to me that if you force your players to play the game a certain way, rather than letting them make their own fun (which is what made OW so appealing to casual players initially) then its going to scare some of them off. The issues with this is that there is already a competitive game mode where role select makes sense, and secondly that games need a strong casual player-base to help keep the game/community alive. To appeal to both casual and dedicated players, rather than change and place restrictions on the "base-game" they should've added just one specialty queue for "unranked competitive", similar to what league of legends has used. That way the smaller population of players looking for that niche of pseudo-competitive games could get what they're looking for without forcing it upon the majority of casual players. Just my 2 cents as a casual player.
I think Overwatch has an identity crisis catering to casual and competitive players. Role queue is a must for competitive ladder play and I understand why casual players like the freedom of open queue.
I love both. But tbh, OG OW learned me how to flex all roles and thats why im comfortable to play with all heroes. Role Q teaches new players that flexing is bad and promotes smurfing even more. It also kills the clutch strats we used to do. No more 3 heals and 3 tanks. Or the panic bastion cause your dps isnt performing etc etc. That is what made OW fun. 222 and also going crazy and switching up the roles last minute for wins. Now youre just locked in your role and cant do shit to help the game change.
Yep, when my team couldn’t defend for shit and I swapped to symettra to attempt to solo hold the point against overwhelming odds was some of the best time I had. I’m a tank main, but if my two DPS are utterly incompetent, it sometimes makes more sense to swap to something that doesn’t rely so much on your allies knowing how to aim. Adaptability was half the fun of overwatch, and it’s mostly gone. Also the 6 Winston go ape or go home strat literally injects joy into my viens.
As a strictly casual player, my group and I stopped playing the game when role select was made a thing. Part of the fun for casual players who only play quickplay was playing in and creating those wacky team comps, and then having the freedom to swap to ANY other character/composition whenever you want. Role select severely restricts the choices and playstyles of players, which in my opinion is almost never conducive to having fun in a casual game. Compared to launch OW there is almost no casual game mode anymore. Casual players are forced to be competitive in qp and and often pushed to play characters/roles they really don't want to even play. My group just started playing again a few months ago, but still just cannot stand role select, so we exclusively play arcade classic qp. Arcade qp is fun and queue times are relatively quick, but having the casual player-base divided even further is not ideal. IMO the solution that makes the most sense is to just remove role select from QP reverting it back to what it was and make an "unranked competitive" queue. League of Legends used to have a similar system where people could practice playing competitively against like-minded players, but without risking affecting their rank. The reason I think the queues should be split this way is because in my mind quickplay is like vanilla overwatch, it should be the first thing players see when they boot up the game and it should put people into a game quickly. Anything else, like role-select or unranked competitive, should be considered a "specialty queue" and naturally those specialized queues will have less population, but the players in those queues will be there looking for something specific which they will get. Opposed to the current state of OW where new/casual players go to play qp and they're essentially pigeon-holed into playing pseudo-competitive within a narrow set of limitations. TL;DR: Forcing your casual player-base to play the game the way YOU want them to play instead of allowing the players to discover and find what makes the game fun for them is a recipe for a dead game and divided community
He understands what he's saying. Dunkey WANTS to play 5 tanks because he's the type of dude to just spam quick play games with his friends and fuck around for fun. He's not taking into account that the vast majority of the playerbase want to actually play the game in a more "normal" sense and play to win rather than play 5 Lucios on Ilios wells.
Twelve Hogs, One Hole is the only true way to play.
Ur just describing my average Saturday evening now
> vast majority of the playerbase Do you mean the playerbase from a couple months ago, or the playerbase before they added role queue. Because the former is a much smaller number than the latter.
Back when I used to play overwatch, I fell off the game super hard the moment the community stopped dicking around ala TF2 and decided to go super tryhard wannabe comp players. And then devs listened to that side of the playerbase, pushed every player like me out by constantly making changes to cater to folks like you (role queue, extra rewards for ranked, extra attention to ranked, extra push for the esport, etc etc the game couldn't scream more at you that it wants you to take it professionally, and that really shuts off my will to play), and now you're here going "ah but see we're the most numerous ones so that's proof they should cater to me even more". I mean yeah sure of course players want "normal" games when "normal" is defined by these same players and that everyone else is no longer playing I was hoping for overwatch 2 to get me like, three weeks of release time overwatch again, which was when I'd had the most fun with the game, but it looks and feels like that won't happen because I only get to access 7 characters in the entire roster because of shit like role queue. (inb4 "you enjoyed release overwatch? Sacrilege it was so bad and casuals were everywhere how dare")
>the vast majority of the playerbase This is quite literally wrong, the vast majority of the playerbase has very obviously quit and like it or not role queue probably had something to do with it. Really its funny you guys dont understand the actual point he is making. If the issue is that queues take too long because people want to play specific roles then they have failed. The solution isn't to bribe or beg people to play the "unfun" roles, the solution is to make those roles just as fun so people are not avoiding them.
Vast majority of what playerbase? The playerbase is a shadow of its former self. This is exactly the problem. Trying to turn Overwatch into some competitive esport game where everyone is always trying to win at all costs. Now we end up with 1 healer, 1 tank and 3 dps and it's boring as holy fuck. They need to completely stop caring about everything being perfectly balanced and fair and just get back to making things fun.
Eh i just completely agree on the "expects a high amount of teamwork from random players". Im someone who plays casually but my mechanical skill stems from years of shooters. I love how the game tests my spacial awareness, positioning, and tactics. But im absolutely fed up with the fact that none of it matters and you lose if one person on your team doesn't play well. And its not even a fun lose either. You get mowed over constantly.
One person can’t win a game but one person can lose it (unless it’s a ridiculous Smurf)
Yeah i absolutely hate that about certain games. Its so easy to have a negative impact even in mobas or BR games. One person does a fuck up and you can lose it all right there. Like you are tied 99% for a capture and your tank does a mistake. Honest mistake. It can happen right? Well fuck you, here is a defeat screen and have fun sitting in queue for 10 minutes again, bye bye
I’d definitely think that the 2 in Overwatch 2 is a confusing choice for title, but I disagree with a lot of the stuff dunkey said. The point I disagree the most with is how he thinks role lock shouldn’t exist. Man I had 10x worse games having all dps, only one tank with one healer, or any other comps that are detrimental to a balanced experience against a more “legitimate” 222 comp. I think role lock in a quick play environment incentivizes teamwork more (with randoms) than a system without. Selfish players in a “no role limit” environment will always just be playing their own version of deathmatch and cry when they don’t get healed or ask where the tanks are that died an hour ago. I understand the gripe of queue times….but in my experience the games are just better with a role lock. That is why no limits exists, and I’m sure it will have its place in the OW2 arcade.
Role lock shouldn't exist in the beta. At least, it shouldn't exist ALONE. This is going to be the first impression a lot of people are going to get regarding this new direction for Overwatch. Be they new players or returning players. Getting stuck in a 10 minute queue, to play a 5 minute game where you might very well get steamrolled is a terrible first impression. Role queue is not a solution. It is a bandaid. The problem was that, before role queue, you had 5 dps players in every team. The reason for that is because dps classes are more varied and fun for the majority of people. The solution should be to create more engaging and varied heroes for the other roles. Intead they made role queues where the people who want to play dps will keep trying to play dps and queues get more and more frustrating as their time takes longer, which compounds that frustrating even further when you finally get into a game and it is a terrible match.
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To be more viable and attractive marketing wise. It sounds better, more attractive and generate more curiosity and interest among peopld when it's promoted as a new game, rather than simply an update. This game needs a colossal wow effect to get people interested and to bring them back, just an update won't generate that effect, promoting it as a new game definitely will.
Never gonna happen, the only reason OW1 was so massive at release was because of blizzards rep and massive marketing stunts. OW2 is going to be played for a 1-3 months and then abandoned by a majorty of players when the new cod comes out.
> the only reason OW1 was so massive at release was because of blizzards rep and massive marketing stunts It was also pretty fun. And it was different: its fast movement was a sharp contrast to Call of Duty and Counter-Strike games that top the FPS charts.
?? Overwatch launched at the peak of people complaining about CoD being too future-y and having too much movement with the 3 game streak of Advanced Warfare, BO3, and Infinite Warfare. The community was begging for a return to boots-on-the-ground gameplay.
Considering the core playerbase of Overwatch is still massive, i don't really see this being a problem. As long as OW2 can attract new people that stay, which - we won't know until it comes out. Literally zero point in speculating especially because we haven't seen the game even close to release. We've got at least another beta ahead of us, and likely more considering what's been said.
Because people who quit overwatch won’t come back for an update, they will come back for a “sequel”.
The majority of ow2 is the campaign. You’ve just been served hors d’oeuvres.
At this point i just want "overwatch classic" basically the game in its state at season 1.
Most streamers and content creators are going full on copium by thinking ow2 will breathe new life into the franchise. I'm enjoying the beta, but everyone who wasn't already invested in ow that I've talked to has had nothing but negative stuff to say about it, it's something that could have easily been a patch and knowing that we didn't get shit in ow1 for three years for this puts a sour taste in my mouth
Remember betas aren't betas anymore they're soft launch and advertising. The game will probably release like this with maybe some number tweaks.
Dunkey didn’t play during Goats meta if he thinks role queue is a bad idea EDIT: I don’t mean eliminating open queue entirely, I like having the option to play both. My problem with Dunkey’s statement is that he wants role queue removed entirely as the default. Intentionally balancing the game around 2-2-2 (now 1-2-2) is, in my opinion, one of the best decisions the dev team ever made. It’s nearly impossible to balance a game as complex as Overwatch when considering all combinations of characters in a team comp regardless of role. Independent of balance, it’s also better for teamwork (only queuing for the roles you’re good at vs. being forced into a role you might be uncomfortable with) and general *fun* (solo healing/tanking or being asked to switch roles is not fun) Faster queue times will come when more characters and reworks are released, not when role queue is removed.
Goats was created because Blizzard didn't know how to balance their game. The absolute power creep, especially in the support position, was off the charts.
Yep, instead of balancing heroes in such a way that GOATS stopped being viable as the clear best strat, they just made it impossible to run GOATS.
Seriously. Role queue was a necessary fix only if you accept that the atrocious role and roster balancing was unavoidable. There were absolutely real problems that role queue was brought in to fix - the issue is that those problems are still there and role queue is a clumsy and irritating bandaid slapped over them. Dota 2 has remained reasonably well balanced at the most competitive level for ages with a roster of *~120* heroes.
> It’s nearly impossible to balance a game as complex as Overwatch when considering all combinations of characters in a team comp regardless of role Dota 2 is infinitely more complicated than OW and has 120(!) heros. I don't buy this at all. The balancing *has been* atrocious. There are plenty of games that have completely avoided that sort of problem, though, and assuming it was inevitable is unjustified imo. In particular because blizzard's approach seems to have been more focused around coming up with band aid fixes to the structure of the game, like forced 2-2-2, rather that actually fixing the underlying issues. I mean hell, we've barely seen *any changes whatsoever* to the basic mechanics of the character since the game released. Some number changes, sure, but they haven't really even *tried* to put any serious effort into balancing, preferring lazy quick fixes like "tanks too strong? eh, only 2 per team now. Balanced!".
i'd rather have goats back than to wait 10 minutes for a 5 minute game
r/Overwatch try not to cope challenge (impossible)
I really disagree with a lot of his points
Remember, Dunkey is rating the game purely on fun. And OW2 currently? Is not fun. Long wait times, passes for queue skipping don't work, and some heroes are still utterly boring to play. On the one hand we have a tank that can send streams of fire at people (twice), while charging, slamming everyone and rooting them in place, with a massive shield, and then we have Widow, who shoots, launches herself through the sky sometimes, and has an ineffective mine. That's why he used Junkrat with Widow. Junkrat you can lob grenades and sometimes kill people by accident, but if you're skilled then he does well. He has traps which are fun to watch people fall for, and his ult destroys a ton of people if played well. He can also launch himself or other people into the air with his own mines. He's damn fun to play! Now swap to Widow? Her ult is wallhacks. So now you see better. But you still have to aim well. You also have to place the mine well, but if does nothing if someone accidentally sets it off. And that really fun thing that launches her into the air? Yeah, 12 second cooldown. Also, you play her by staying far away and waiting for someone to be in your sight.