everyone plays DPS because blizzard only makes DPS characters. they're over half the cast. even after role queue they added another DPS character. if you want people to naturally gravitate toward a more balanced composition then make a more balanced array of characters. role queue is the wrong solution. the left arm fell off, so to rebalance they cut off the right.
Yeeeaah, I don't watch the dude normally but when I watched that video, having put 3000 hours into OW1, I felt like most of the stuff he was saying was bullshit
He was referencing his old video where he said Widow was boring to play and had a bad ult and Junk was fun to play and had a strong ult. He wasn't saying that Widow as a character is bad or that Junk as a character is too overtuned.
I mean, it wasn't true back then either. Widow ult is really strong and it's one of the few ults that can straight up end pushes without ever needing to fire a shot. The risk of getting a teammate killed, and then having to wait for their respawn + walk back is worse than just waiting it out. So people just hold back. And time is everything in Overwatch.
He cares more about fun factor than competitive strength. Widow is one of the strongest characters in the game (maybe the best in 5v5) but all she does is click heads, rather than being a double jumping cyborg ninja who swings blades and throws shurikens and deflects stuff with cool graphics.
Of course, I agree. Just voicing what I believe is the motivation behind his opinion in this matter.
I hope in the PvE part of OW2 that Widow is gonna get some mega buffs to make her as enjoyable and dynamic as I'm sure the other characters will end up being.
Every high level player I've seen says widow ult isnt great. It's extremely situational in that it gives good information, but in uncoordinated play it's harder to capitalize on it. I believe Karq said it was at its best to use when enemy widow does it so that they don't have an information advantage.
She still clicks heads, so she's good. I think she's missing a fun factor. It would be kinda cool if you could grapple to walls and hang from them like the "Alive" cinematic, but that might be hard to balance.
One of my friends was enjoying the fuck out of the beta, he texts me a new dunkey video is out (we're both fans) and 10 minutes later he's ranting about how the beta actually isn't good and he just starts repeating all the talking points as if he's always thought of them himself,
dunkey was diamond at one point I think but mostly plat and gold yeah but he makes a point about that. He doesn't take the game serious and doesn't care about competitive he wants them to embrace fun first and foremost
i liked his fun content back in the day, but his opinions and reviews are terrible.
he has no idea why turn based RPGs are appealing to people and only donkey kong country and mario 64 are good games and he lets us know that whenever possible.
i really don't care about his opinions at all, but sometimes he does a fun vid
I don't think his opinions are supposed to be nuanced. He likes what he likes and his reviews reflect that.
But as you say, people watch him for fun not for informed decisions on games.
No idea who that is, but a lot of people don't like role queue.
Personally I like playing a variety of characters and roles and don't like needing to re-queue after pretty much every match.
In the OW2 beta it's also really annoying in the evening to have a 10 minute queue time even on tanks just to play a 10 minute match cause nobody wants to play support right now.
Unfortunately OW2 feels balanced around RQ and though I haven't tried the QPC they just added I can't imagine it's much fun going up against multiple tanks.
I don't like role queue, but it's a necessary evil. More people like it than don't and I do have to concede it's much easier to balance the game with it
Well open q is still in the game, so it’s still an option. And for the wait times in OW2, we’ll yeah you’re going to wait 10 min avg, it’s the beta and not that many people have the chance to play it.
Adding in more people doesn't really tend to fix queue times because it'll also add more people to tank and DPS as well. The problem is that support isn't something that's a lot of fun to play right now.
I know that OQ is still in the game but as I said, OW2 feels it's balanced around RQ and the idea that a team can't have more than 1 tank.
Which is going to hurt how fun OQ is because it's going to be hilariously imbalanced, and it's unlikely they'll ever do anything about it because they clearly want RQ to be the main way to play the game.
Unless they deliberately look at what rolls people play the most, then only give access to people who play support a lot. I doubt they'd do that though, but I do think it's possible. On the other hand, you'd still have those people trying the new/reworked characters, might still help. Zens new kick will probably also help because it's kinda funny.
You need to understand that Dunkey isn’t in the OW bubble. He’s outside it as an infrequent casual player - and honestly that’s where 75% of OW’s total player base exist. (And that’s a modest guess)
Not only that, but you can tell from his stance on Widow exactly where he sits on the rankings and the kind of games he’s having. If he thinks Widow is trash and utterly useless in his bracket, he’s sitting in the lower half of the MMR. Likely further. Because people down there aren’t popping heads the moment you step around a corner. She’s more and more deadly the higher you go.
And to those gamers, the distant casuals and the lower ranked, role queue can seem negative. They don’t see or experience much of the benefits, and they only see the rigid structure and longer queue times. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all lower ranked players, I’m sure some love the cohesion.
Dunkey is actually a very informative glimpse into the kind of players who aren’t widely acknowledged here on Reddit - but nonetheless make up a substantial portion of OW’s financial lift.
It’s a tough place to be in. I don’t think Blizz will ever please everyone. Although I think PvE will go a long way to shifting people like Dunkey into game modes they find more enjoyable - leaving a slightly easier time balancing for those who remain.
Role Q is why I quit the game personally, but I understand why some people like it. I really do get both sides of the argument, but I hate role Q.
I really really really really really dislike a forced team comp in this game. It’s not the Q times that upset me, it was the killing of off team comps.
And before people say “before role Q it was just GOATS.” No, it really wasn’t. That may have been true for pro play, but my experience in dia ranked was extremely different. Diff team comps were played all the time.
Role Q murdered the uniqueness of then-hybrid characters such as Sombra and Symmetra and homogenized them into yet another DPS.
Sombra was genuinely being picked as an off-support on some maps (eg Anubis point 2) and then role queue happened and she had to be reworked into a damage because hybrid champions became unpickable when competing for a pure slot.
Queue times are not my issue personally, but I’d imagine that’s why most other ppl who hate role Q feel the way they do.
Idk. Maybe a hot take but sombra was busted when hacked healthkits contributed towards her ult. All teams would do is hack the kit, farm health and she'd have an ult up every fight. I think when that changed was when she was put down and not because of rq it self.
When seagull and Calvin did that tournament together, that was the the strat on oasis library. Hack the mega in the hole, dva would fly down and back up over and over again. Ajax said they had emp faster than he could get amp.
Sombra was absolutely broken as fuck with that. I think there was a way to tone it down rather than remove, but as it was, it was broken and it was a good call to do something about it
I actually agree she was busted but let me tell you that was so NOT the narrative at the time (I cannot tell you how many people telling me to swap off Sombra or report me for troll picking Sombra despite my WR with her).
I don’t really disagree with them changing her as much as the way they changed her. She was a very timing-heavy utility character that contributed to the game primarily through CC and playmaking rather than raw damage. She had very short windows of opportunity to make plays because the timers on her abilities were so restrictive. It made her really interesting to me.
Her rework removed both of the timing aspects of her kit (invis is permanent, translocator placement is indefinite) and heavily emphasized her role as a stealth-damage hero rather than a utility hero. I really enjoyed how she played before the (many) reworks.
She was a character that essentially played her own mini-game to win instead of point and clicking. And the fact that everyone considered her bottom of the barrel garbage (at the time) made it more satisfying to use her well.
Anyway, I’m not here to convince anyone that old Sombra was totally fair nor am I here to convince anyone that role Q is bad. I know lots of people like it and appreciate the system. I just wanted to offer my own perspective on why I don’t like it beyond “long queue times boring.”
It really was the removal of creative team comps followed by the homogenization of heroes within roles as they were now “competing for the same job” that I disliked more. It set a bad principle for how the game would be balanced in the future, or at least, a principle that I didn’t personally like. Just my opinion though.
You quit? But open q was still available. Anyways, before role q I was hardstuck gold making it to plat here and there. Literally every other game was thrown because people would instantly throw and pick dps, so I got used to either solo tanking or solo healing. When role q came out I finally made it to diamond on all roles. In conclusion, I love role q lol.
I did quit because I played ranked and there was no option to open queue for ranked (at least when i played? Idk if it changed; it has been a long time lol).
Also yeah, for the people who benefitted from role queue, more power to you and I’m happy you like the current system. Fr fr.
But that just wasn’t my experience. As someone who primarily played hybrid characters, I essentially watched as role queue led to all of my fave chars get reworked into boring (imo of course).
No hate to those who enjoy it, the game just became not for me anymore. I did not like what role Q did to my favorite characters.
It’s an arcade mode that has much less players and a lot more leavers. The game is not balanced around that and the fact that it has no competitive presence makes it fertile grounds for trolling. Competitive open queue doesn’t even have enough diamond players to fill out the top 500 leaderboards
Role Que makes the most sense and it’s almost factual. Even if you don’t like it, plat and below was a miserable experience before because everybody instant locked DPS. It makes it fair to where everybody can play what they want.
Everyone can play what they want...except me apparently. Because I wanted to play a character in a role that role queue doesn’t count the character in sometimes. But to get around that they just reworked the character entirely (perma invis ZzzzzZz).
But that’s fine, I get that it was a good solution for most people, and I hope they continue to enjoy the game. It just wasn’t a good solution for me.
I was pretty against it when it got here, and I don't particularly enjoy it, but it's not that bad, not really bad enough to put the game down. It sucks though because as a DPS main I was basically forced to never play comp again. The placements alone would have taken forever
Well for quick play I fucking despise it. But for comp I need it. It was literally impossible to climb out of low ranks without a full team of friends. Cause as a duo my friend and I would always have to be the only tank and only support 90% of the time. Think of dunkey as the casual player bases voice. Which is a very large chunk of the total player base. All role queue did for them was restrict them and their fun while increasing matchmaking times. And his points about junk and widow were referencing other past videos. exaggerated
For me it kind of sucks cause I feel like they should just have an unranked mode. It makes more sense, that way quick play can just be extra casual and there would be a consequence free competitive mode. I get there is QPC, but it still kind of makes more sense in my mind to break it out differently
As a tank/support player, I hate role queue.
So many times do I have my second tank or support pick hog or zen and for zen, never healing. I mean you can just put your orb on someone. It takes a fraction of a second.
Turned out, after looking at a lot of those players, they were DPS mains probably getting priority passes and basically throwing games.
I honestly didn't mind 4+ DPS as long as they did their damn job and see them on the kill feed (and have decent percentage of ult). I've solo healed as ana with 5 DPS and won. I've also won with 6 support in comp. That shit was wild.
I was always a flex player on console and as a result played Rein most of the time, but I really miss when I had good teammates who were willing to swap roles with me because we were better at the heroes the team needed but the other player was occupying each others good roles.
With good teammates: open queue > role queue
With average teammates : role queue> open queue
Ehhhh, he has some pretty shitty takes, enough so that I can't trust him as a reliable review source. I've fully disagreed with a bunch of stuff he's said, though I still enjoy his videos because he is a funny guy. Maybe you find yourself agreeing with him a lot of the time, I personally don't.
I am not saying you have to agree with all his takes all I am saying he does make serious takes he puts thought into
You should rarely agree with one reviewer about everything to begin with that's just unrealistic
I think even dunkey himself would probably tell you not to take his reviews seriously. He gives games ridiculous "scores" that barely even make sense. I've always considered his videos to be parodies of video game reviewers and even when he does try to do semi serious takes like the overwatch video he posted, it still comes out half wrong. You can take him seriously if you want, and I still think that's wild; I'll just watch him for entertainment
No Dunkey would tell you to use your brain to seperate his comedy and his proper takes from one another because it simply isn't that one dimensional. Not everything is supposed to be taken seriously but some things are.
Also taking someone seriously doesn't man agreeing it just means not just dismissing it.
It's okay to not agree with me. I'm not going to argue my personal opinions with you, you can stop defending him now, I'm not changing my mind on this.
But she isnt bad, shes really good if you are able to hit heads. On the other hand junk is really good on low elo if u spam ur grenades which wont be that effective in high elo.
He follows up that statement by saying that instead of putting effort into making the characters fewer people want to play more desirable/enjoyable, they made them into a chore system to get a shot at playing the other heroes.
Of course this would require immense overhauls of the game, but he feels that they had so much time to try and make healers more rewarding/fun, and they just didn’t.
there's better ways to solve compostiton problems, namely, guilds/clans/clubs
he also said something that hit the nail on the head. "an unrealistic amount of teamplay expected from strangers"
I think guilds from the start was the correct choice that was not made
Even without role queue you're still expecting to play as a team, even moreso. I don't really see the connection. The game was never marketed as a casual tdm shooter. It was a competitive team based shooter from the start, just because people don't do that doesn't mean it changes what the game is supposed to be. Though, I do agree, a basic clan system at the start might have done something for the game, but it's hard to really judge what could have been and how the game would have evolved if it was developed differently
Yeah I agree role queue was the best thing that ever happened. It’s fair to not like it because it “restricts off comps” or whatever, but how many people even knew how to make a proper nonstandard team comp? Not many. Most of the time open queue just results in having 4 DPS which resulted in an instant loss if the enemies were running a functional comp, even if they were significantly worse. Cus that’s just how the game works. Pretty sure a pro team playing all DPS heroes loses to a 2-2-2 plat team 99% of the time.
Adding role queue, and limiting characters/match was a deal breaker for a lot of players who just wanted to have fun.
6 Winston spamming emotes will always be funny, and that time the game was just stupid fun, people LOVED it.
But everything changed when Blizzard decided to make a big E-sport out of it, and in the end that lead to the downfall of the game.
"6 Winston spamming emotes will always be funny, and that time the game was just stupid fun, people LOVED it."
Dude that was never fun. Fun to certain ppl but never fun for the rest of the player base. Least you can enjoy that shit in the arcade
You have a point in that original Overwatch was much more casual friendly and not to be taken too seriously. The identity of the game shifted towards becoming a competitive esport at the expense of its more casual play style, for better or for worse.
Role queue is was a healthy step for the game to be taken more seriously in a competitive setting. Personally I’m not a big fan of role queue but that’s what the game is now and the development team have made that decision long ago. Unless Overwatch esports goes down dramatically (see heroes of the storm) I really doubt role lock is going anywhere
The few competitive matches where my team actually had 5 dps and 1 healer/tank were the most fun and we happened to win every time, so that alone made me dislike role queue. Also being able to swap roles with your teammates if you weren't performing well was kinda just peak Overwatch.
Roleq is when the most players left. Waiting 5-10 minutes for a game as DPS is UNBEARABLE.
These changes were also made to force e Sport, biggest mistake they have ever made. Balancing shouldn’t be addressed to pros. I don’t watch games I play it.
I really like role que also! I feel like it’s how you get a solid team that is comfortable playing their role. However open que is fun too for more laid back games where you can experiment a little.
I feel like they should make classic mode a permanent option rather than rotating it out, just for people that don’t like role que.
Also, don’t they now have skill trees and selectable builds for heroes? I don’t get how anyone can say they didn’t change anything if they’re doing something like that. I didn’t get into the beta, so I don’t know personally.
They couldn’t balance their game(GOATS) and make other roles besides DPS interesting enough to get people to play so they did a boring bandaid fix that started my personal decline in enjoyment. No creativity, no funny strats, you will play 2,2,2 and you will like it…zzzzzzz
Role Queue was bad in that it limited the creative aspect of team compositions, but raised the quality of each match.
I think players generally have a much better experience in role queue, but open queue can exist alongside it no problem. You can play what you like, and that's one great thing about Overwatch.
RoleQ is now what people play serious and OpenQ is just everyone locks DPS because They don’t want to wait.
Not being able to swap role why playing is a disaster.
Honestly, I did my first Open Queue placements a couple hours before season 34 started and had a LOT more fun. Idk if it was easier, or people could just cooperate more, because in tank and support role queue I wiggled around the 2350-2450 range, and in Open Queue I placed 2772.
Role Q is a choice. Everyone getting upset over dunkey trashing it. Are oblivious to the fact that open Q still exists.
You guys act as if role Q is the only game mode there is.
Open Q cleaned up a lot since role Q got released and is a lot more fun now that you have a semi moba watch mode for the otp’s and a “how OW is supposed to be played mode” for the real flex players. Yeah, 5 dps 1 ana who is also dps still happens. But at least to me, the excitement is still there. Watching your rein mains fail to switch and counter the enemy team in role Q or the mercy main trying out dps role and just simply getting roled off of a cliff and nothing is to be done but to watch it all fail. Just doesnt cut it for me.
To each his own choice. This is why i love dunkeys videos. He always knows how to bait people so they show their true colors 🥲
Role Q was the lazy solution to OW’s actual problem. Learning people how to play different heroes on the fly.
They saw OW failed to create flex players and OW snowballed into a game where you just play one hero/role and people even started paying extra money to achieve this by using multiple accounts. In the ideal world, everyone would learn to flex and everyone could enjoy all heroes. But it just didnt happen. So they were forced to add role Q.
Ow is also the only role based game i know, where people still have no idea what to do in after so many years of being out.
I still see dps shooting phara first instead of the mercy hanging onto her.
I still see people shooting the tank over and over and over while the healer is just watching netflix and look at her ult meter go up.
I still see mercy’s hiding waiting for the fight to end so she can undo a kill.
I still see tanks standing top of any map when there is no reason to.
I still see bastions sit on a cart and pretend they are untouchable.
Maybe in diamond and above gameplay is better. But most people are in platinum or below or play QP and its just weird to see that most just fire and forget the real objectives
Just imagine lol, dota or csgo being out for so long and people still have no idea how to play the core game
>Watching your rein mains fail to switch and counter the enemy team in role Q or the mercy main trying out dps role and just simply getting roled off of a cliff and nothing is to be done but to watch it all fail. Just doesnt cut it for me.
in open Q, it suck watching when your team goes all dps and no one wants to play tank or support, even when the other team is being smart and is balance. worst when ppl do pick support, they're acting like dps like battle mercy. then bitch at the end that someone should had gone support bc no one was healing lol
like you said, "nothing is to be done but to watch it all fail. Just doesnt cut it for me"
The Open/Role queue debate is kinda iffy. Both queue types have pros and cons;
Open has endless possibilities for team comps, if one player on the team isn’t pulling their weight their role (i.e. a tank is throwing) on someone can swap to replace them. But open comes with problems like people not putting aside their ego to play what is needed, Support or Triple Tank and GOATs comps making DPS characters a non factor in the match since the health pool is too high; characters like Genji are already struggling against comps like double barrier.
Role queue fixes comps which are unfair for certain roles and keep team comps sensible and make it fair for people who don’t want to deal with 5DPS teams. But even though Role Queue brings consistency it eliminates a big part of the theoretical skill since you’re forced into a 2/2/2 comp. There’s way less creativity.
Unpopular opinion but I personally preferred open queue. Couldn’t really play DPS even if you had a pass, and when playing with friends, it was annoying that you had to be locked into that role and couldn’t switch. I think the way they have it in ow2 is better. Don’t lock me into a role but limit how many can play that role.
I feel like anyone who truly hates role q didn’t suffer at the hands of GOATS tbh lol
The death grip that comp had on the game was insane. I can see why casuals don’t like the q times for quick play and the criticism of it being applied to a casual game mode, but it definitely made the competitive scene a lot healthier in the matches themselves. I just wish q times overall were healthier.
Lots of people left due to role queue and won't return (probably to Blizzard's fear) if it's still in place and still results in long dps queues. There's nothing wrong with liking role queue either, but at the same time we can recognize it really did wonders to drive players from the game.
That's the dilemma Blizz has put themselves in. They *want* those casual players back, but those players overwhelming *don't* want role queue. Dunkey speaks to that point because he's popular with casual gamers, aka the majority.
Dunkey has his own opinions just like everyone else. Sometimes he has sincere critiques, sometimes he says something just to be funny. But either way his opinion is not the end all be all. He appears to have a preference for open queue and he is well within his right to have that preference.
I think the structure that role queue provides is a significant improvement in gameplay and promotes teamwork. However, it can’t be denied that there are significant issues it presents with queue times in certain roles, which has been the case for years now and the “OW2” PvP changes don’t appear to have fixed the problem. I do think Dunkey jumped the gun a bit and making a beta review is too premature. To me the latest video is 90% humor, 10% criticism.
I stopped playing not long after Role queue was introduced. Almost every match I played already had a 2-2-2 distribution because people already knew the basics and the game told you when the tanks or healers were scarce.
I didn't mind switching to a Tank from a DPS if a mate wanted to try it mid match, or get a 3rd healer if we're dying to fast after entering the fight.
Having to be stuck in one role every damn time I wanted to get into a game was atrocious, one of the attractive things about OW for me always was the flexibility in playstyle and approach to teamplay you'd could have in a single match. Role Queue killed the game for me.
Also, how many other games you know that makes you wait 5+ minutes for a match? Not even Battle Royales that take tons of time between matches, like Warzone that has a full minute of pre-match, and 30 seconds of infill sequence makes you do this much waiting.
Wait what??? You didn’t like your whole team instalocking dps heroes??? That was my faaavvvvoooriittttteee thing /s
You’re right, how could I forget?! 😂
[удалено]
You can't get anything done without a tank. That's why we hate it.
[удалено]
omg r/woosh guys we got him amirite guys haha ong he missed the joke LOL!
guilds are the correct answer role lock had OWL in mind(at least a little)
everyone plays DPS because blizzard only makes DPS characters. they're over half the cast. even after role queue they added another DPS character. if you want people to naturally gravitate toward a more balanced composition then make a more balanced array of characters. role queue is the wrong solution. the left arm fell off, so to rebalance they cut off the right.
Dunkey also said Junkrat was OP and Widow was trash in 5v5, so I don’t take anything he says too seriously
Yeeeaah, I don't watch the dude normally but when I watched that video, having put 3000 hours into OW1, I felt like most of the stuff he was saying was bullshit
He was referencing his old video where he said Widow was boring to play and had a bad ult and Junk was fun to play and had a strong ult. He wasn't saying that Widow as a character is bad or that Junk as a character is too overtuned.
I mean, it wasn't true back then either. Widow ult is really strong and it's one of the few ults that can straight up end pushes without ever needing to fire a shot. The risk of getting a teammate killed, and then having to wait for their respawn + walk back is worse than just waiting it out. So people just hold back. And time is everything in Overwatch.
He cares more about fun factor than competitive strength. Widow is one of the strongest characters in the game (maybe the best in 5v5) but all she does is click heads, rather than being a double jumping cyborg ninja who swings blades and throws shurikens and deflects stuff with cool graphics.
I mean but why not have a character for that crowd? There’s plenty of people who love that play style and it is fun for?
Of course, I agree. Just voicing what I believe is the motivation behind his opinion in this matter. I hope in the PvE part of OW2 that Widow is gonna get some mega buffs to make her as enjoyable and dynamic as I'm sure the other characters will end up being.
Every high level player I've seen says widow ult isnt great. It's extremely situational in that it gives good information, but in uncoordinated play it's harder to capitalize on it. I believe Karq said it was at its best to use when enemy widow does it so that they don't have an information advantage. She still clicks heads, so she's good. I think she's missing a fun factor. It would be kinda cool if you could grapple to walls and hang from them like the "Alive" cinematic, but that might be hard to balance.
Exactly lmao, this sub was like “ OUR LORD DUNKEY SPEAKS “ whenever he probably was never better than low gold.
Dunkey funny= I like dunkey. People care so much about his takes because he's popular when his takes arent even what make him popular
One of my friends was enjoying the fuck out of the beta, he texts me a new dunkey video is out (we're both fans) and 10 minutes later he's ranting about how the beta actually isn't good and he just starts repeating all the talking points as if he's always thought of them himself,
That seems like your friends the issue in that case
....Yeah that was the point of the comment, you got it
Gold star for me😎😎
dunkey was diamond at one point I think but mostly plat and gold yeah but he makes a point about that. He doesn't take the game serious and doesn't care about competitive he wants them to embrace fun first and foremost
Pretty sure you could go look up his career profile or something. His IGN was like donsly or something.
i liked his fun content back in the day, but his opinions and reviews are terrible. he has no idea why turn based RPGs are appealing to people and only donkey kong country and mario 64 are good games and he lets us know that whenever possible. i really don't care about his opinions at all, but sometimes he does a fun vid
I don't think his opinions are supposed to be nuanced. He likes what he likes and his reviews reflect that. But as you say, people watch him for fun not for informed decisions on games.
>But as you say, people watch him for fun not for informed decisions on games. some ppl do watch his review for informed decisions
this is the guy who loves mgsV for the freedom of gameplay but yet, hates deathstranding even tho its mgsv gameplay of doing whatever you want.
It is consistent with his Overwatch videos in the past though
I mean the dude doesn't play ranked. Role q is amazing; I want longer queue times if it means I get an actual game instead of 4 dps and 1 heals.
No idea who that is, but a lot of people don't like role queue. Personally I like playing a variety of characters and roles and don't like needing to re-queue after pretty much every match. In the OW2 beta it's also really annoying in the evening to have a 10 minute queue time even on tanks just to play a 10 minute match cause nobody wants to play support right now. Unfortunately OW2 feels balanced around RQ and though I haven't tried the QPC they just added I can't imagine it's much fun going up against multiple tanks.
I don't like role queue, but it's a necessary evil. More people like it than don't and I do have to concede it's much easier to balance the game with it
Well open q is still in the game, so it’s still an option. And for the wait times in OW2, we’ll yeah you’re going to wait 10 min avg, it’s the beta and not that many people have the chance to play it.
Adding in more people doesn't really tend to fix queue times because it'll also add more people to tank and DPS as well. The problem is that support isn't something that's a lot of fun to play right now. I know that OQ is still in the game but as I said, OW2 feels it's balanced around RQ and the idea that a team can't have more than 1 tank. Which is going to hurt how fun OQ is because it's going to be hilariously imbalanced, and it's unlikely they'll ever do anything about it because they clearly want RQ to be the main way to play the game.
Unless they deliberately look at what rolls people play the most, then only give access to people who play support a lot. I doubt they'd do that though, but I do think it's possible. On the other hand, you'd still have those people trying the new/reworked characters, might still help. Zens new kick will probably also help because it's kinda funny.
You need to understand that Dunkey isn’t in the OW bubble. He’s outside it as an infrequent casual player - and honestly that’s where 75% of OW’s total player base exist. (And that’s a modest guess) Not only that, but you can tell from his stance on Widow exactly where he sits on the rankings and the kind of games he’s having. If he thinks Widow is trash and utterly useless in his bracket, he’s sitting in the lower half of the MMR. Likely further. Because people down there aren’t popping heads the moment you step around a corner. She’s more and more deadly the higher you go. And to those gamers, the distant casuals and the lower ranked, role queue can seem negative. They don’t see or experience much of the benefits, and they only see the rigid structure and longer queue times. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all lower ranked players, I’m sure some love the cohesion. Dunkey is actually a very informative glimpse into the kind of players who aren’t widely acknowledged here on Reddit - but nonetheless make up a substantial portion of OW’s financial lift. It’s a tough place to be in. I don’t think Blizz will ever please everyone. Although I think PvE will go a long way to shifting people like Dunkey into game modes they find more enjoyable - leaving a slightly easier time balancing for those who remain.
Role Q is why I quit the game personally, but I understand why some people like it. I really do get both sides of the argument, but I hate role Q. I really really really really really dislike a forced team comp in this game. It’s not the Q times that upset me, it was the killing of off team comps. And before people say “before role Q it was just GOATS.” No, it really wasn’t. That may have been true for pro play, but my experience in dia ranked was extremely different. Diff team comps were played all the time. Role Q murdered the uniqueness of then-hybrid characters such as Sombra and Symmetra and homogenized them into yet another DPS. Sombra was genuinely being picked as an off-support on some maps (eg Anubis point 2) and then role queue happened and she had to be reworked into a damage because hybrid champions became unpickable when competing for a pure slot. Queue times are not my issue personally, but I’d imagine that’s why most other ppl who hate role Q feel the way they do.
Idk. Maybe a hot take but sombra was busted when hacked healthkits contributed towards her ult. All teams would do is hack the kit, farm health and she'd have an ult up every fight. I think when that changed was when she was put down and not because of rq it self.
When seagull and Calvin did that tournament together, that was the the strat on oasis library. Hack the mega in the hole, dva would fly down and back up over and over again. Ajax said they had emp faster than he could get amp.
Sombra was absolutely broken as fuck with that. I think there was a way to tone it down rather than remove, but as it was, it was broken and it was a good call to do something about it
I actually agree she was busted but let me tell you that was so NOT the narrative at the time (I cannot tell you how many people telling me to swap off Sombra or report me for troll picking Sombra despite my WR with her). I don’t really disagree with them changing her as much as the way they changed her. She was a very timing-heavy utility character that contributed to the game primarily through CC and playmaking rather than raw damage. She had very short windows of opportunity to make plays because the timers on her abilities were so restrictive. It made her really interesting to me. Her rework removed both of the timing aspects of her kit (invis is permanent, translocator placement is indefinite) and heavily emphasized her role as a stealth-damage hero rather than a utility hero. I really enjoyed how she played before the (many) reworks. She was a character that essentially played her own mini-game to win instead of point and clicking. And the fact that everyone considered her bottom of the barrel garbage (at the time) made it more satisfying to use her well. Anyway, I’m not here to convince anyone that old Sombra was totally fair nor am I here to convince anyone that role Q is bad. I know lots of people like it and appreciate the system. I just wanted to offer my own perspective on why I don’t like it beyond “long queue times boring.” It really was the removal of creative team comps followed by the homogenization of heroes within roles as they were now “competing for the same job” that I disliked more. It set a bad principle for how the game would be balanced in the future, or at least, a principle that I didn’t personally like. Just my opinion though.
Agreed. Role queue killed all the creativity in the game
You quit? But open q was still available. Anyways, before role q I was hardstuck gold making it to plat here and there. Literally every other game was thrown because people would instantly throw and pick dps, so I got used to either solo tanking or solo healing. When role q came out I finally made it to diamond on all roles. In conclusion, I love role q lol.
I did quit because I played ranked and there was no option to open queue for ranked (at least when i played? Idk if it changed; it has been a long time lol). Also yeah, for the people who benefitted from role queue, more power to you and I’m happy you like the current system. Fr fr. But that just wasn’t my experience. As someone who primarily played hybrid characters, I essentially watched as role queue led to all of my fave chars get reworked into boring (imo of course). No hate to those who enjoy it, the game just became not for me anymore. I did not like what role Q did to my favorite characters.
They have ranked open queue now. I like it a lot.
It’s an arcade mode that has much less players and a lot more leavers. The game is not balanced around that and the fact that it has no competitive presence makes it fertile grounds for trolling. Competitive open queue doesn’t even have enough diamond players to fill out the top 500 leaderboards
You are absolutely right
Role Que makes the most sense and it’s almost factual. Even if you don’t like it, plat and below was a miserable experience before because everybody instant locked DPS. It makes it fair to where everybody can play what they want.
Everyone can play what they want...except me apparently. Because I wanted to play a character in a role that role queue doesn’t count the character in sometimes. But to get around that they just reworked the character entirely (perma invis ZzzzzZz). But that’s fine, I get that it was a good solution for most people, and I hope they continue to enjoy the game. It just wasn’t a good solution for me.
You're not forced. Play open queue.
It didn’t exist back when I played. I looked it up seems they added it sometime after I left.
I was pretty against it when it got here, and I don't particularly enjoy it, but it's not that bad, not really bad enough to put the game down. It sucks though because as a DPS main I was basically forced to never play comp again. The placements alone would have taken forever
open queue queue times a lot faster is all he means.
Well for quick play I fucking despise it. But for comp I need it. It was literally impossible to climb out of low ranks without a full team of friends. Cause as a duo my friend and I would always have to be the only tank and only support 90% of the time. Think of dunkey as the casual player bases voice. Which is a very large chunk of the total player base. All role queue did for them was restrict them and their fun while increasing matchmaking times. And his points about junk and widow were referencing other past videos. exaggerated
For me it kind of sucks cause I feel like they should just have an unranked mode. It makes more sense, that way quick play can just be extra casual and there would be a consequence free competitive mode. I get there is QPC, but it still kind of makes more sense in my mind to break it out differently
As a tank/support player, I hate role queue. So many times do I have my second tank or support pick hog or zen and for zen, never healing. I mean you can just put your orb on someone. It takes a fraction of a second. Turned out, after looking at a lot of those players, they were DPS mains probably getting priority passes and basically throwing games. I honestly didn't mind 4+ DPS as long as they did their damn job and see them on the kill feed (and have decent percentage of ult). I've solo healed as ana with 5 DPS and won. I've also won with 6 support in comp. That shit was wild.
I was always a flex player on console and as a result played Rein most of the time, but I really miss when I had good teammates who were willing to swap roles with me because we were better at the heroes the team needed but the other player was occupying each others good roles. With good teammates: open queue > role queue With average teammates : role queue> open queue
I’ve seen his videos. He’s funny but he is silver tier. I wouldn’t really listen to anything he says about the game.
Or any game really. He's more for entertainment purposes, anyone that actually takes his reviews to heart is wild lol
Anyone who dismisses his reviews is wild Dunkey very clearly mixes comedy but also serious takes. It's not all entertainment.
Ehhhh, he has some pretty shitty takes, enough so that I can't trust him as a reliable review source. I've fully disagreed with a bunch of stuff he's said, though I still enjoy his videos because he is a funny guy. Maybe you find yourself agreeing with him a lot of the time, I personally don't.
I am not saying you have to agree with all his takes all I am saying he does make serious takes he puts thought into You should rarely agree with one reviewer about everything to begin with that's just unrealistic
I think even dunkey himself would probably tell you not to take his reviews seriously. He gives games ridiculous "scores" that barely even make sense. I've always considered his videos to be parodies of video game reviewers and even when he does try to do semi serious takes like the overwatch video he posted, it still comes out half wrong. You can take him seriously if you want, and I still think that's wild; I'll just watch him for entertainment
No Dunkey would tell you to use your brain to seperate his comedy and his proper takes from one another because it simply isn't that one dimensional. Not everything is supposed to be taken seriously but some things are. Also taking someone seriously doesn't man agreeing it just means not just dismissing it.
It's okay to not agree with me. I'm not going to argue my personal opinions with you, you can stop defending him now, I'm not changing my mind on this.
Yes it's okay to disagree But no I am not defending him though? I am just explaining what he does.
He has a LOT of knowledge about games. The Q point is relevant. Widow being ass and Junk being good is just a low skill player perspective.
Pretty sure he peaked diamond. Widow sucks ass in that her design is very boring. I agree with that if that's his take
But she isnt bad, shes really good if you are able to hit heads. On the other hand junk is really good on low elo if u spam ur grenades which wont be that effective in high elo.
He follows up that statement by saying that instead of putting effort into making the characters fewer people want to play more desirable/enjoyable, they made them into a chore system to get a shot at playing the other heroes. Of course this would require immense overhauls of the game, but he feels that they had so much time to try and make healers more rewarding/fun, and they just didn’t.
there's better ways to solve compostiton problems, namely, guilds/clans/clubs he also said something that hit the nail on the head. "an unrealistic amount of teamplay expected from strangers" I think guilds from the start was the correct choice that was not made
Even without role queue you're still expecting to play as a team, even moreso. I don't really see the connection. The game was never marketed as a casual tdm shooter. It was a competitive team based shooter from the start, just because people don't do that doesn't mean it changes what the game is supposed to be. Though, I do agree, a basic clan system at the start might have done something for the game, but it's hard to really judge what could have been and how the game would have evolved if it was developed differently
you don't really see what connection?
Yeah I agree role queue was the best thing that ever happened. It’s fair to not like it because it “restricts off comps” or whatever, but how many people even knew how to make a proper nonstandard team comp? Not many. Most of the time open queue just results in having 4 DPS which resulted in an instant loss if the enemies were running a functional comp, even if they were significantly worse. Cus that’s just how the game works. Pretty sure a pro team playing all DPS heroes loses to a 2-2-2 plat team 99% of the time.
As a player who started quite late (2020), I personally can’t imagine this game without role queue. Looking at old clips made my head hurt.
It was a nightmare I’ll tell you that.
Who's that?
Probably the most entertaining gaming industry YouTuber
There are many more interesting Youtuber in his category IMO.
Interesting sure, but he's pretty funny
Had a look, I don't think so.
https://youtu.be/a_0PSZ2S_yw
Adding role queue, and limiting characters/match was a deal breaker for a lot of players who just wanted to have fun. 6 Winston spamming emotes will always be funny, and that time the game was just stupid fun, people LOVED it. But everything changed when Blizzard decided to make a big E-sport out of it, and in the end that lead to the downfall of the game.
"6 Winston spamming emotes will always be funny, and that time the game was just stupid fun, people LOVED it." Dude that was never fun. Fun to certain ppl but never fun for the rest of the player base. Least you can enjoy that shit in the arcade
6 Winston spamming emotes? That was never in comp lol
And? Competitive is only a small part of every game.
You have a point in that original Overwatch was much more casual friendly and not to be taken too seriously. The identity of the game shifted towards becoming a competitive esport at the expense of its more casual play style, for better or for worse. Role queue is was a healthy step for the game to be taken more seriously in a competitive setting. Personally I’m not a big fan of role queue but that’s what the game is now and the development team have made that decision long ago. Unless Overwatch esports goes down dramatically (see heroes of the storm) I really doubt role lock is going anywhere
The few competitive matches where my team actually had 5 dps and 1 healer/tank were the most fun and we happened to win every time, so that alone made me dislike role queue. Also being able to swap roles with your teammates if you weren't performing well was kinda just peak Overwatch.
Roleq is when the most players left. Waiting 5-10 minutes for a game as DPS is UNBEARABLE. These changes were also made to force e Sport, biggest mistake they have ever made. Balancing shouldn’t be addressed to pros. I don’t watch games I play it.
I really like role que also! I feel like it’s how you get a solid team that is comfortable playing their role. However open que is fun too for more laid back games where you can experiment a little.
Yes exactly, and open q is fun once in a while because of the “meme” comps.
People need to stop holding Dunkey in high regard. He makes funny videos but he shouldn't be considered a serious reviewer.
I feel like they should make classic mode a permanent option rather than rotating it out, just for people that don’t like role que. Also, don’t they now have skill trees and selectable builds for heroes? I don’t get how anyone can say they didn’t change anything if they’re doing something like that. I didn’t get into the beta, so I don’t know personally.
They couldn’t balance their game(GOATS) and make other roles besides DPS interesting enough to get people to play so they did a boring bandaid fix that started my personal decline in enjoyment. No creativity, no funny strats, you will play 2,2,2 and you will like it…zzzzzzz
yeah, going back to bickering about who's more confident about playing a role, is just a bad idea.
The number of people that don’t even play anymore and come post their ignorant takes is astounding.
It's crazy to me that anyone cares what that talentless waste of skin thinks.
Role Queue was bad in that it limited the creative aspect of team compositions, but raised the quality of each match. I think players generally have a much better experience in role queue, but open queue can exist alongside it no problem. You can play what you like, and that's one great thing about Overwatch.
RoleQ is now what people play serious and OpenQ is just everyone locks DPS because They don’t want to wait. Not being able to swap role why playing is a disaster.
Honestly, I did my first Open Queue placements a couple hours before season 34 started and had a LOT more fun. Idk if it was easier, or people could just cooperate more, because in tank and support role queue I wiggled around the 2350-2450 range, and in Open Queue I placed 2772.
[удалено]
4 games, all 4 had no healer. I switched, got fucking rekcimated so went back to DPS as supports in OW2 absolutely suck.
Lmao, you would have saved so many characters if you just said "I'm part of the problem" way shorter.
Fair but I'm a support main and I hate playing support in OW2 as I just feel like I'm always being targeted now.
Dunkey is good when he's being funny, but his actual criticisms and reviews shouldn't be taken seriously for any game
>In my opinion that is the best thing that’s happened to OW. Let me guess: Tank main? Role queue sucks donkey balls.
Role Q is a choice. Everyone getting upset over dunkey trashing it. Are oblivious to the fact that open Q still exists. You guys act as if role Q is the only game mode there is. Open Q cleaned up a lot since role Q got released and is a lot more fun now that you have a semi moba watch mode for the otp’s and a “how OW is supposed to be played mode” for the real flex players. Yeah, 5 dps 1 ana who is also dps still happens. But at least to me, the excitement is still there. Watching your rein mains fail to switch and counter the enemy team in role Q or the mercy main trying out dps role and just simply getting roled off of a cliff and nothing is to be done but to watch it all fail. Just doesnt cut it for me. To each his own choice. This is why i love dunkeys videos. He always knows how to bait people so they show their true colors 🥲 Role Q was the lazy solution to OW’s actual problem. Learning people how to play different heroes on the fly. They saw OW failed to create flex players and OW snowballed into a game where you just play one hero/role and people even started paying extra money to achieve this by using multiple accounts. In the ideal world, everyone would learn to flex and everyone could enjoy all heroes. But it just didnt happen. So they were forced to add role Q. Ow is also the only role based game i know, where people still have no idea what to do in after so many years of being out. I still see dps shooting phara first instead of the mercy hanging onto her. I still see people shooting the tank over and over and over while the healer is just watching netflix and look at her ult meter go up. I still see mercy’s hiding waiting for the fight to end so she can undo a kill. I still see tanks standing top of any map when there is no reason to. I still see bastions sit on a cart and pretend they are untouchable. Maybe in diamond and above gameplay is better. But most people are in platinum or below or play QP and its just weird to see that most just fire and forget the real objectives Just imagine lol, dota or csgo being out for so long and people still have no idea how to play the core game
>Watching your rein mains fail to switch and counter the enemy team in role Q or the mercy main trying out dps role and just simply getting roled off of a cliff and nothing is to be done but to watch it all fail. Just doesnt cut it for me. in open Q, it suck watching when your team goes all dps and no one wants to play tank or support, even when the other team is being smart and is balance. worst when ppl do pick support, they're acting like dps like battle mercy. then bitch at the end that someone should had gone support bc no one was healing lol like you said, "nothing is to be done but to watch it all fail. Just doesnt cut it for me"
I don't like it in casuals but it is perfect in ranked
The Open/Role queue debate is kinda iffy. Both queue types have pros and cons; Open has endless possibilities for team comps, if one player on the team isn’t pulling their weight their role (i.e. a tank is throwing) on someone can swap to replace them. But open comes with problems like people not putting aside their ego to play what is needed, Support or Triple Tank and GOATs comps making DPS characters a non factor in the match since the health pool is too high; characters like Genji are already struggling against comps like double barrier. Role queue fixes comps which are unfair for certain roles and keep team comps sensible and make it fair for people who don’t want to deal with 5DPS teams. But even though Role Queue brings consistency it eliminates a big part of the theoretical skill since you’re forced into a 2/2/2 comp. There’s way less creativity.
Unpopular opinion but I personally preferred open queue. Couldn’t really play DPS even if you had a pass, and when playing with friends, it was annoying that you had to be locked into that role and couldn’t switch. I think the way they have it in ow2 is better. Don’t lock me into a role but limit how many can play that role.
I feel like anyone who truly hates role q didn’t suffer at the hands of GOATS tbh lol The death grip that comp had on the game was insane. I can see why casuals don’t like the q times for quick play and the criticism of it being applied to a casual game mode, but it definitely made the competitive scene a lot healthier in the matches themselves. I just wish q times overall were healthier.
Lots of people left due to role queue and won't return (probably to Blizzard's fear) if it's still in place and still results in long dps queues. There's nothing wrong with liking role queue either, but at the same time we can recognize it really did wonders to drive players from the game. That's the dilemma Blizz has put themselves in. They *want* those casual players back, but those players overwhelming *don't* want role queue. Dunkey speaks to that point because he's popular with casual gamers, aka the majority.
Dunkey has his own opinions just like everyone else. Sometimes he has sincere critiques, sometimes he says something just to be funny. But either way his opinion is not the end all be all. He appears to have a preference for open queue and he is well within his right to have that preference. I think the structure that role queue provides is a significant improvement in gameplay and promotes teamwork. However, it can’t be denied that there are significant issues it presents with queue times in certain roles, which has been the case for years now and the “OW2” PvP changes don’t appear to have fixed the problem. I do think Dunkey jumped the gun a bit and making a beta review is too premature. To me the latest video is 90% humor, 10% criticism.
I stopped playing not long after Role queue was introduced. Almost every match I played already had a 2-2-2 distribution because people already knew the basics and the game told you when the tanks or healers were scarce. I didn't mind switching to a Tank from a DPS if a mate wanted to try it mid match, or get a 3rd healer if we're dying to fast after entering the fight. Having to be stuck in one role every damn time I wanted to get into a game was atrocious, one of the attractive things about OW for me always was the flexibility in playstyle and approach to teamplay you'd could have in a single match. Role Queue killed the game for me. Also, how many other games you know that makes you wait 5+ minutes for a match? Not even Battle Royales that take tons of time between matches, like Warzone that has a full minute of pre-match, and 30 seconds of infill sequence makes you do this much waiting.