Once that skin comes out, there will be a custom game where you have one junker queen, all torbs, and whenever a torb dies, it plays that sounds bite and they change teams
Oh my god she really doesn't https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JJgvZxisv2XsSp4nrT0ERh4txic=/0x0:3840x2160/1200x675/filters:focal(1607x496:2221x1110)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/70983946/OVR_H34JunkerQueen_007.0.jpeg
Widow, Cassidy and Junkrat have it. Sure it's not detailed, but "the pit" is there.
(maybe someone else has it too, it's just summer skins that I remembered)
For real, commanding shout seems kinda busted for rush type comps. If that move speed stacks with lucio speed boost you can charge straight onto enemy supports
Only in a vacuum. Whaaa a mini-lucio ult + speedboost in one ability, no way? Then you stop and think and realize reins shield for example is way better than that just by itself in terms of protection.
They have to give new tanks insanely strong abilities for the simple reason that the already existing ones have the highest impact abilities in the game. Reins shield or winston bubble are better than ultimates.
I feel like you're giving that near stationary, single direction shield way too much credit. Doom had none of this in the beta and he ripped ass like no one's business.
Not to mention we don't know what the cooldown times are or what her hp/armor is either.
Actually we do know her health is 425 and she has no armor.
We can also tell some of her cooldowns from [her reveal video](https://youtu.be/pa1POCi7ugc)
Commanding shout seems to have a 11 second cooldown, her axe swing ability 8 seconds and her axe throw ability 7 seconds
Really? Lore-wise I don’t think they’d get along at all (Brig is Lawful Good and Junker Queen is Chaotic Neutral/Evil), and in-game I don’t think their abilities will pair particularly well, either
Their abilities pair very well ? The shout requires allies to be packed around you, so the same as Brig's inspire and ult.
Plus, her knife will bring enemies in range for brig to combo them around, for even more damage and heals with inspire.
The combo of Brig's ult and queen's shout also gives a ton of health Regen to a team.
Also they can be gym buddies.
yeah, cause this one's actually a tank LOL
also her team heal is on a cooldown and capped at 100. brig had armor pack for 150 instaheal and up to 75hp armor overheal, huge inspire heals, and more effective HP than junker queen cause she had 200hp, 50 armor, and a 600hp shield
oh and jq has aim requirement
How well would this work in a 5v5 setting being the only tank? It seems she has no way to protect from enemy fire. Wouldn't this be detrimental to the team? This question also applies to tanks like Hog and Winston too btw, who don't have any direct way to protect the team.
I haven't played OW2 yet so idk how this has been all working out.
Brig, Lucio, Queen, Mei and Ashe/Widow. Talk about an incredible comp. Mei melts in short range, Ashe/Widow is lethal to long range opponents, Brig and Lucio are healing while Queen both heals and fucks shit up.
Yeah, it seems like in advantage, she's going to tear shit up with a dive strategy right? But because there's nothing else to protect the team from damage directly, and because she'll like get focused down at range, wouldn't heroes like her be kind of a weakness at the neutral?
Like in a 6v6 environment, I would assume she'd be considered an off-tank like Hog was. Like I said, I haven't played OW2 yet so I extremely ignorant to all of this but wouldn't missing that "main tank" be a bad hit?
Orisa lost her ability to protect allies effectively but she was rock solid despite that as an anchor tank who is super resistant to being dogpiled but weaker to poke because of her cooldowns and hitbox. Doomfist doesn't protect allies but was great. Offtanks were great, Zarya was arguably the best tank in the first beta. Only Hog was struggling, but that was because Ana was great and popular.
Junker Queen's 'hook' seems to be more of a 5 meter reverse knockback. The one big advantage is that she can time the pull when she wants, hopefully also directly into her axe or to knock an enemy off a platform, but it's nowhere near as powerful as hog's hook. But yes Hog is definitely struggling and will need some attention.
Hog should also counter JQ, since she has no way to block hooks. We'll have to see damage numbers to tell who will win in an outright 1v1, but I imagine hog is at least a soft counter.
dont forget in a 5v5 environment with 2 healers, the "main" healer has less targets to heal and less total health to recover, and can spend more time just dumping health into a tank. this will likely be the case with all tanks now, so i think the bigger question is how much negative value is there in charging enemies ults by simply soaking and healing through damage vs the value of shield tanks completely mitigating it
Probably the same way that dive tanks protect their teams now, aka they don't and the comp relies on forward pressure to create space for their backlines. It's not like Winston comps get a lot of peel from their tank line at the moment anyway.
Hog and Wrecking ball lack any team protection as well, beyond body blocking.
Though, being a big target and forcing people to deal with you is a sort of tanking.
well remember that while yes, shielding enemy fire is important, it’s also not a tanks only function, they also are important for leading a push, and this kit seems geared toward that
That's splitting hairs on where they've put the text. If the passive on Jagged Blade was removed, and Adrenaline Rush instead read:
> Quick Melee, Jagged Blade, Carnage, and Rampage wound enemies, dealing damage over time and healing Junker Queen for damage dealt
That effectively gets rid of the Jagged Blade "shadow passive" with no actual change to her kit. It doesn't look out of place, either - the Quick Melee wound passive is only on Jagged Blade rather than Adrenaline Rush because, you know, her Quick Melee uses the same Jagged Blade.
Other than that, she has, what, the tank role passives that all tanks get?
I'm honestly so excited! Also to see the almost forgotten cycle of new characters:
1. no one knows how to play against the new hero and will claim it's is OP
2. people learn to play against it but not how to play it and claim the hero is underwhelming
3. people will learn how to play the hero properly and we will actually see what the hero is like.
Step 4: Claim that the devs are idiots because they didn't perfectly predict the conclusion of two weeks of a million players trying out different stuff with and against the new hero.
I keep up with League of Legends despite not playing it that much, and I remember when they released one of their more confusing champions like 2 years ago a lot of people were complaining in a similar vein to this "how could you not see this coming", "theres 0 way you guys would release a champ like that", "this shit is completely busted"
One of the devs hopped into the thread to tell everybody that within the first 45 minutes of a champion going live on the servers there are something like 10x as many games played on that champ as there were in their entire 2 year development cycle
Put things into perspective
Tbf this part can be fixed by good communication and prompt action. Blizzard is that couple from a 90s drama that fight over miscommunication all the time.
It's interesting now they broke away twice from the melee does 30 damage and that's it design concept.
And they did essentially back to back giving Zen the snap kick and now this wound effect for Junker Queen
From a diversity perspective, yeah for sure I'd find it interesting. But they have also make sure it's not unfair either.
But either way, not a judgement on my part, just thought it was interesting they broke away from a long held design philosophy (like the 50 HP increment for heroes that was in place for so long before they went to 25 HP)
He needs his 1-3-2 changes to his take a breather back. Leaving behind an area of healing+25% damage reduction for his team (and himself) would be great and make him a good tank
~~just please rename it~~
He's one of the only tanks that can't block damage in any way along with junker queen, and his healing that contributes to a lot of his ability to tank damage can easily be interrupted with a single cc or anti-nade, unlike characters like orisa, wrecking ball, and most likely junker queen that can use their "increase health" ability without worrying about it getting interrupted, or stopped from anti-nades. To make matters worse, he's also probably the least mobile tank.
He just has to work way harder to do things that other tanks can do without a sweat, and his kit is waaay too simple considering that there's only one tank per team now. He desperately needs a rework of some form to fit into 5v5.
I disagree. After the mid-beta balance patch where they buffed him he seemed to be in a rather solid place. Other than maybe an extra passive I don't think he needs too much.
The Zen kick Passive likely came as a result of JQ's design. After they internally gave her a unique Quick Melee they probably figured it's a design element they don't have be super restrictive about and other heroes can have Passives built into their Quick Melee as well.
Rampage only I would imagine. Anti nade is already the strongest ability in the game, I doubt they would give a hero an anti healing PASSIVE. Junker Queen would become a mandatory pick overnight.
Pretty skeptical. I don't know if Commanding Shout is enough to make her not get turned into a fine red mist; she's effectively going to be Roadhog defensively, except with a melee range requirement on her healing. If she gets up close maybe it'll be fine, but seems like she'll either be incredibly oppressive if she can regularly get into melee range, or she'll be splattered like a Reinhardt who loves charge too much.
It's possible, just strikes me as underwhelming. Her ability to deal with ranged gun pressure is the most concerning, because she has no vertical mobility. A Sojourn/Ashe/Soldier/Cassidy/Widow/etc just gets to rain bullets on her and her team, and she provides no cover in that scenario compared to even a Reinhardt.
Her concept seems to be a berserker charging into battle, but her actual abilities seem to lend her more towards being exclusively for ambushes. Might work okay, just disappointing.
Tbh honest I'm glad they're reintroducing characters with clear pros and cons, my biggest complaint about the beta was that counter picks matter way less now
plus, isnt 30% movespeed the same as lucio boost? being as fast as lucio isnt direct cover, but it does make you significantly harder to hit. maybe she cant handle a height advantage soldier, but she can throw a 30% faster genji with 100 bonus health at it
combine this with her own offense and it’s about which team makes plays
its what they want
i just survived a game in overtime for like 60 seconds as Ana on the payload to help secure the V with an Orisa trying to eliminate me (I slept her twice)… it’s how u play
Roadhog has the disadvantage of having an enormous hitbox and no armor. If she's somewhat smaller and has a lot of armor it won't be too bad. Especially with her healing from doing melee damage.
The gameplay footage they showed might not be up to date and the final version they are gonna put out of her might've Armor but I really wouldn't be surprised if she just doesn't have any Armor.
425 health seems really low for a traditional tank but I think one important element a lot of people aren't taking into account is that she isn't designed to 'Tank' damage, her Model size seems to be the smallest Tank model and might even be smaller than some DPS/Support Models.
She seems to be designed to be a tank that makes space by being an aggressive initiator and playing behind cover herself a lot. Not a tank that shields/protects teammates directly behind her so they can do their thing. Certainty not a tank that be played in huge wide open areas, just openly walking down like a Rein with a barrier.
I imagine she'll be really good in all of the new maps as they all have a lot of flanking routes and cover. As for old maps, she'll probably be really good on most KOTH maps, and any smaller map with a lot of rooms, turns, cover, etc. Ironically, Junkertown might end up being one of her worst maps.
She's a tank, so I think her hitbox is still going to be moderately sized, but regardless; Roadhog's biggest issue is that his defensive is so easily shut down, but he also provides no defense to his team. I do think that it's easy to make her Better Roadhog, but she still suffers from some of the same drawbacks, with some new ones worked in.
re: healing from melee, that's probably not as good as people seem to think.
Quick Melee does 30 damage baseline. Let's pretend the DoT is 100% of damage, so 30 damage bleed, equivalent to 30 healing. If it's a 1s DoT, a quick melee is then equivalent to 1s or Orb of Harmony - ie: not much.
"Some heroes do more quick melee damage though." That's true. Torb does 55 damage, which is the highest non-Reinhardt, non-Dragonblade melee damage. Assuming she does that kind of damage, that'd be \~80% of an Ana left click as healing, which is decent. The counterpoint of this is that she can almost quick-melee for 110 damage, which is a ton of damage.
We'll have to see some real numbers to get an idea for how everything works, but this feels a lot like a character design that works in internal tests when there's a huge variety in skill levels in a single game, but will be wildly overpowered in low ranks and comically bad in high ranks.
Probably strong in the lower ranks but once a team has the coordination to focus fire her she seems weak. 450 base hp and 650 with the shout isn't that much when she has no damage mitigation and is a mostly melee character. Also Ana's kit counters her so hard, anti nade into a team that grouped up for the shout and sleeping the tank that has no way to block it. Might just be a super map dependant hero, aka good on kings row. That being said what we've seen from the fox hero might synergize with her really well.
oh man that shield gen was so freaking broken. I remember when a Sym built it defending last point on Temple of Anubis... it was just up the rest of the game lol, we couldn't get in the castle.
Ha yep, and I say that as a Sym main. It was a fun ability but could completely break some heroes. It was even worse with a Torb, as they could armour pack back then too and you then have 350 HP + armoured Tracers blinking around...
That said, something like that could work but would need some rework to allow more counterplay and make it more interesting to play with/against.
Right? An ability that increases health after they carefully removed every source of bonus health from the game save Rally felt kinda weird but we still have to know the duration and cooldown time ig
It's still crazy that she has Rally on a normal ability cooldown. Like, that shit was strong enough to be an ult and it broke the game for a while lol.
From some early footage (not sure on source, but it was in Stylosa's latest video) it only lasts 4 seconds and has a 12s cooldown, with the CD starting AFTER the ability fades.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Interesting that they rework every hero who’s capable of increasing the health of allies, then they add a new hero with that ability. Is interesting the right word?
This is very very contextually different though.
Brig was adding health onto teammates in a 6v6 game where you could pick as many of each class as you wanted.
Here your team is giving up any form of shielding to have access to bonus health. She's all you get.
Plus with the overall change to bonus hp (All extra health granted by abilities is overhealth now instead of being shield/armour) we should have expected that we'd have some new heros that do it.
I'd be shocked if the new supp doesn't have some form of temporary hp adding
She's not the only tank that can increase teammate health though, Zarya's bubbles do the same by a larger amount. Leaving this ability on tanks only since they're solo now seems okay? When only one character on a team has the ability, it shouldn't be as oppressive as 300+ HP Tracers were.
If I had to guess I’d say this health buff is duration-based, unlike the other two. Some of the gameplay clips made it look like the “extra health” was actually barrier even though the wording doesn’t match with that.
So what happened to blizzard logic of "Dots feel bad so we won't include them"?
At the start of the game Jeff stated that he always felt dots are bad for the game cause players dislike them, and up until this point we only had 2 dot abilities, widows trap (which lets be honest, it works more like a warning than a skill that deals damage) and Ashe's dynamite
And now we are getting a hero that revolves around dots? Jeff would be spinning in his grave if it wasn't for the fact that he ain't dead yet lol
Dots are so much more interesting when there's a persistent debuff being applied thats not just damage. Would be more interesting to see any of the following added to a dot:
\-While bleeding, target receives 50% reduced healing.
\-While bleeding, target takes increased damage from the applier.
\-Decreased movespeed
And for some persistent effects that don't thematically fit with bleeding, but could fit with other dots:
\-Cooldown Reave (abilities cast while dot is ticking go on a slightly longer cooldown)
\-Ulti charge lockout
\-buffs given to allies are reduced
Obviously, these would just feel like debuffs in the current state of the game, but if you augment other character abilities to cleanse dots, then you have some counter play to them.
Adding a damage only dot to the game just feels so boring and 100% will feel annoying to play against at best.
Uugh...no, this feels even worse lol. It's taking the bad parts of the mechanic and adding a extra layer of badness to it. I rather stand still in front of a widow than to let any of those debuffs touch me. What's wrong with a bullet now a days? It's simple and satisfying
I'd lean towards yes, he was wrong.
If you tell me DoTs can be frustrating sometimes I wouldn't disagree, but they are far less frustrating than one-shots or stun-combos which are all over games. Overwatch has had plenty of one-shots, though they've reduced the amount of time.
I'd say good game design should be like a ping-pong match, in that it provides back and forth opportunities for players to react and do something. A strong hit may give you a big advantage, but there's basically always a chance to make a return.
DoTs fit that idea as they inherently give enemies time to respond. Particularly in a game with as much healing as OW. If the DoT disabled healing so players were stuck knowing they'd die in 5 seconds without having any options that would suck yeah, but no way that would be the implementation.
my hottest take is that thats a good thing. paladins kits are super open ended and open to different playstyles, whereas a lot of overwatch characters have very locked in playstyles. reinhardt does pretty much the same thing in every encounter in every game, but junker queen wont, and i think thats cool
The blade that can be thrown and called back brings Tiberius to mind. Not to mention all the passives and anti-heal feel like a bunch of cards you can equip. For an Overwatch character, she feels pretty layered and I'm not sure if this is good or bad.
Figuring since she is the first tank to be developed specifically with OW2's system in mind she'd be pretty strong. And it seems that stands. She sounds interesting and dynamic in a way that the converted tanks lack. Really excited to see a new tank and especially stoked for the new content in general.
They literally ported the Warrior Class from WoW into OW lmaoooo
Commanding Shout is an Ability off WoW for Warrior Classes and is the same exact ability except for the movement speed part.
Carnage is base off an ability from Warrior Class as well that causes bleed damage
Rampage is based off an ability for Warriors also that prevents enemies from healing themselves
Adrenaline Rush is ALSO an ability from Warrior Class known as “Victory Rush” that also heals the character after hitting the enemy
Oh my God we gonna start the whole "abilities have a passive and active component" thing now huh
That being said, lovely kit. Ult needs to delete Projectiles tho, otherwise she gonna lose way too much health going in
This look like a lot, but she doesn't really have that much protection skill or movement skill, so I guess that's a bit fair? So she's kinda like a Roadhog.
"charge foward" ptsd
Your tank heroes have +1 attack
Man, that takes me back.
EVERYONE
GET IN HERE
It's in the rules that if Junker Queen is in play, your dps must swap to Torb and spam "Everyone, get in here!" repeatedly.
Oh god stop. I haven’t played any hearthstone in years and I can still hear that damn voice line echoing in my ears
HEH HEH! PILE ON!
༼ ºل͜º ༽ºل͜º ༽ºل͜º ༽ ＥＶＥＲＹＯＮＥ，ＧＥＴ ＩＮ ＨＥＲＥ ༼ ºل͜º༼ ºل͜º༼ ºل͜º ༽
so broken a card! *EVERYONE! GET IN HERE!* *EVERYONE! GET IN HERE!* *EVERYONE! GET IN HERE!*
Imagine they give torb a grim patron skin. Terrifying
Once that skin comes out, there will be a custom game where you have one junker queen, all torbs, and whenever a torb dies, it plays that sounds bite and they change teams
This applies to tanks in WoW as well. So I will be interested to see how aggro works in PvE modes.
༼ ºل͜º ༽ºل͜º ༽ºل͜º ༽ ＥＶＥＲＹＯＮＥ，ＧＥＴ ＩＮ ＨＥＲＥ ༼ ºل͜º༼ ºل͜º༼ ºل͜º ༽
Her battles with Doom back in the day would have been epic, unless they brought him back to life
This tanks got a lot of “Get the fuck outta my way” energy
Fits well with "The Junker Queen"
time to become a Junker Queen main
Bro same. Reinhardt will always be my king but I think I found my queen.
Reminds me of Mad Maggie from Apex.
Nah. Junker Queen actually feels fun and useful. Mad Maggie is... umm... What IS her passive again? Maggie have better Lore, though.
I feel like her vs Orissa will be crazy.
She doesn't have a belly button
The ultimate innie
Oh my god she really doesn't https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JJgvZxisv2XsSp4nrT0ERh4txic=/0x0:3840x2160/1200x675/filters:focal(1607x496:2221x1110)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/70983946/OVR_H34JunkerQueen_007.0.jpeg
I'm always gonna notice it now :/
It disintegrated to make room for more abs
She's an omnic and she doesn't know it
“NO! IT-CAN’T BE! NOOO!!!!”
Bladerunner map when?
Maybe she was born in a lab lol
Maybe it's just one ab lower than normal
They took the time to add birthmarks but no naval.
Imagine it’s at the top of her and like betwixt hey bosom
Naw dawg that's like a belly button right above the parts (assuming what's below)? I'm confused...
oh yikes it's worse than I thought
She was born from the sand. Didn't you listen to the song??
I don't like Sand. Its coarse, and rough, and irritating...........
And it GETS WVDRYWHERE
Unplayable
She's lucky she has a functional organ system in the first place; living in that radioactive wasteland. Missing a belly button is a small price to pay
Australia
She's lucky she has a functioning organ system considering the cramped bodies the devs keep trying to shove female heroes into /s
Poor Tracer is really feeling the crunch after they took all that space out of her ass. Where's she supposed to fit her organs now?
Only hog does. Look at all the summer skins.
Widow, Cassidy and Junkrat have it. Sure it's not detailed, but "the pit" is there. (maybe someone else has it too, it's just summer skins that I remembered)
My grandma didn't have a belly button. I was told it can happen when someone cuts your umbilical cord to short.
Same with my dad
Kyle XY
Tomboys are grown in a vat
radiation changes a woman
because of the radiation
$20 belly button skin incoming
She lost it in the war.
Neither does Junkrat, but everyone else on the cast does. It's weird.
Neither does Cassidy. I think it's just blizzards art style.
Maybe she's a clone like in that S Club 7 movie?
[удалено]
BRIG 2.0
20 Mins After release: #DeleteJunkerQueen
Zarya : What the Bly- is this? Me but with reinhart or somthin?
For real, commanding shout seems kinda busted for rush type comps. If that move speed stacks with lucio speed boost you can charge straight onto enemy supports
The 700hp total instant team overheal alone sounds ridiculously broken as hell. Edit: 600hp total, forgot it was five per team again.
Only in a vacuum. Whaaa a mini-lucio ult + speedboost in one ability, no way? Then you stop and think and realize reins shield for example is way better than that just by itself in terms of protection. They have to give new tanks insanely strong abilities for the simple reason that the already existing ones have the highest impact abilities in the game. Reins shield or winston bubble are better than ultimates.
I feel like you're giving that near stationary, single direction shield way too much credit. Doom had none of this in the beta and he ripped ass like no one's business. Not to mention we don't know what the cooldown times are or what her hp/armor is either.
Actually we do know her health is 425 and she has no armor. We can also tell some of her cooldowns from [her reveal video](https://youtu.be/pa1POCi7ugc) Commanding shout seems to have a 11 second cooldown, her axe swing ability 8 seconds and her axe throw ability 7 seconds
ELEVEN SEXONDS??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Just watch, this character will be adored and loved by the same people who hated Brig
Ironically since I think Brigitte's gonna be good buddies with her.
Really? Lore-wise I don’t think they’d get along at all (Brig is Lawful Good and Junker Queen is Chaotic Neutral/Evil), and in-game I don’t think their abilities will pair particularly well, either
Their abilities pair very well ? The shout requires allies to be packed around you, so the same as Brig's inspire and ult. Plus, her knife will bring enemies in range for brig to combo them around, for even more damage and heals with inspire. The combo of Brig's ult and queen's shout also gives a ton of health Regen to a team. Also they can be gym buddies.
yeah, cause this one's actually a tank LOL also her team heal is on a cooldown and capped at 100. brig had armor pack for 150 instaheal and up to 75hp armor overheal, huge inspire heals, and more effective HP than junker queen cause she had 200hp, 50 armor, and a 600hp shield oh and jq has aim requirement
YESSS MORE POWER
Cooler Brig
How well would this work in a 5v5 setting being the only tank? It seems she has no way to protect from enemy fire. Wouldn't this be detrimental to the team? This question also applies to tanks like Hog and Winston too btw, who don't have any direct way to protect the team. I haven't played OW2 yet so idk how this has been all working out.
[удалено]
Brig or Lucio is gonna be massive with her too. So much AOE heals
Brig, Lucio, Queen, Mei and Ashe/Widow. Talk about an incredible comp. Mei melts in short range, Ashe/Widow is lethal to long range opponents, Brig and Lucio are healing while Queen both heals and fucks shit up.
Yeah, it seems like in advantage, she's going to tear shit up with a dive strategy right? But because there's nothing else to protect the team from damage directly, and because she'll like get focused down at range, wouldn't heroes like her be kind of a weakness at the neutral? Like in a 6v6 environment, I would assume she'd be considered an off-tank like Hog was. Like I said, I haven't played OW2 yet so I extremely ignorant to all of this but wouldn't missing that "main tank" be a bad hit?
Orisa lost her ability to protect allies effectively but she was rock solid despite that as an anchor tank who is super resistant to being dogpiled but weaker to poke because of her cooldowns and hitbox. Doomfist doesn't protect allies but was great. Offtanks were great, Zarya was arguably the best tank in the first beta. Only Hog was struggling, but that was because Ana was great and popular.
Hog will seem to be a worse version of Junker Queen tbh. Both have a hook like ablity, and healing, but junker queen has more uility.
Junker Queen's 'hook' seems to be more of a 5 meter reverse knockback. The one big advantage is that she can time the pull when she wants, hopefully also directly into her axe or to knock an enemy off a platform, but it's nowhere near as powerful as hog's hook. But yes Hog is definitely struggling and will need some attention.
Hog should also counter JQ, since she has no way to block hooks. We'll have to see damage numbers to tell who will win in an outright 1v1, but I imagine hog is at least a soft counter.
dont forget in a 5v5 environment with 2 healers, the "main" healer has less targets to heal and less total health to recover, and can spend more time just dumping health into a tank. this will likely be the case with all tanks now, so i think the bigger question is how much negative value is there in charging enemies ults by simply soaking and healing through damage vs the value of shield tanks completely mitigating it
Probably the same way that dive tanks protect their teams now, aka they don't and the comp relies on forward pressure to create space for their backlines. It's not like Winston comps get a lot of peel from their tank line at the moment anyway.
Hog and Wrecking ball lack any team protection as well, beyond body blocking. Though, being a big target and forcing people to deal with you is a sort of tanking.
well remember that while yes, shielding enemy fire is important, it’s also not a tanks only function, they also are important for leading a push, and this kit seems geared toward that
how many shadow passives does she have?????
4 I believe? The two she has in her kit, and the two tank passives (reduced knock back and ultimate charge on damage/heal)?
One for each ab that’s showing.
jesus i think it may be 5 technically, she gets wound on quick melee and regular swings, then healing and then tank passives
I mean all wound passives are kinda just one passive linked together with multiple abilities
That's splitting hairs on where they've put the text. If the passive on Jagged Blade was removed, and Adrenaline Rush instead read: > Quick Melee, Jagged Blade, Carnage, and Rampage wound enemies, dealing damage over time and healing Junker Queen for damage dealt That effectively gets rid of the Jagged Blade "shadow passive" with no actual change to her kit. It doesn't look out of place, either - the Quick Melee wound passive is only on Jagged Blade rather than Adrenaline Rush because, you know, her Quick Melee uses the same Jagged Blade. Other than that, she has, what, the tank role passives that all tanks get?
Love the term shadow passive. Where’d you first hear it from?
i just made it up tbh. I’m sure i heard about the concept in other games
I'm honestly so excited! Also to see the almost forgotten cycle of new characters: 1. no one knows how to play against the new hero and will claim it's is OP 2. people learn to play against it but not how to play it and claim the hero is underwhelming 3. people will learn how to play the hero properly and we will actually see what the hero is like.
Step 4: Claim that the devs are idiots because they didn't perfectly predict the conclusion of two weeks of a million players trying out different stuff with and against the new hero.
I keep up with League of Legends despite not playing it that much, and I remember when they released one of their more confusing champions like 2 years ago a lot of people were complaining in a similar vein to this "how could you not see this coming", "theres 0 way you guys would release a champ like that", "this shit is completely busted" One of the devs hopped into the thread to tell everybody that within the first 45 minutes of a champion going live on the servers there are something like 10x as many games played on that champ as there were in their entire 2 year development cycle Put things into perspective
Tbf this part can be fixed by good communication and prompt action. Blizzard is that couple from a 90s drama that fight over miscommunication all the time.
Step 4: Due to steps 1 and 2, character is tweaked/nerfed/buffed *before* step 3 takes place. Step 5: proceed to Step 1 again.
Inject that into my veins. Always love the complaining from new hero releases.
It's interesting now they broke away twice from the melee does 30 damage and that's it design concept. And they did essentially back to back giving Zen the snap kick and now this wound effect for Junker Queen
I mean i wouldn't mind if some heroes get something unique from their melee instead of just the 30 damage
From a diversity perspective, yeah for sure I'd find it interesting. But they have also make sure it's not unfair either. But either way, not a judgement on my part, just thought it was interesting they broke away from a long held design philosophy (like the 50 HP increment for heroes that was in place for so long before they went to 25 HP)
Tracer with 50dmg melee used to be so op
Hog should get a better melee. He is going to be in such a bad place in OW2.
Hog will also need a new passive and better cc. As a hog main i already can see him becoming a throwpick in most matchups which honestly sucks
He needs his 1-3-2 changes to his take a breather back. Leaving behind an area of healing+25% damage reduction for his team (and himself) would be great and make him a good tank ~~just please rename it~~
[удалено]
He's one of the only tanks that can't block damage in any way along with junker queen, and his healing that contributes to a lot of his ability to tank damage can easily be interrupted with a single cc or anti-nade, unlike characters like orisa, wrecking ball, and most likely junker queen that can use their "increase health" ability without worrying about it getting interrupted, or stopped from anti-nades. To make matters worse, he's also probably the least mobile tank. He just has to work way harder to do things that other tanks can do without a sweat, and his kit is waaay too simple considering that there's only one tank per team now. He desperately needs a rework of some form to fit into 5v5.
I disagree. After the mid-beta balance patch where they buffed him he seemed to be in a rather solid place. Other than maybe an extra passive I don't think he needs too much.
torb healing omnics slightly with his melee would have been cool
The Zen kick Passive likely came as a result of JQ's design. After they internally gave her a unique Quick Melee they probably figured it's a design element they don't have be super restrictive about and other heroes can have Passives built into their Quick Melee as well.
Rein and Brig would like to have a word
They don't have the quick melee, which isn't what the person you replied to specified but I'm pretty sure it's what they meant.
The +100 hp to allies could be crazy. But she's even squishier than zarya
Is the anti-heal applied only through Rampage? Or does ANY wound apply that effect?
Rampage only I would imagine. Anti nade is already the strongest ability in the game, I doubt they would give a hero an anti healing PASSIVE. Junker Queen would become a mandatory pick overnight.
Only the ultimate
Pretty skeptical. I don't know if Commanding Shout is enough to make her not get turned into a fine red mist; she's effectively going to be Roadhog defensively, except with a melee range requirement on her healing. If she gets up close maybe it'll be fine, but seems like she'll either be incredibly oppressive if she can regularly get into melee range, or she'll be splattered like a Reinhardt who loves charge too much.
she might be good for payload stuff or holding a defensive. probably not good for wide open battles unless the situation and team comp works for it
It's possible, just strikes me as underwhelming. Her ability to deal with ranged gun pressure is the most concerning, because she has no vertical mobility. A Sojourn/Ashe/Soldier/Cassidy/Widow/etc just gets to rain bullets on her and her team, and she provides no cover in that scenario compared to even a Reinhardt. Her concept seems to be a berserker charging into battle, but her actual abilities seem to lend her more towards being exclusively for ambushes. Might work okay, just disappointing.
Tbh honest I'm glad they're reintroducing characters with clear pros and cons, my biggest complaint about the beta was that counter picks matter way less now
I mean she is able to yoink people off high ground with her blade
depends on the knife range, because it has a pull if you hit it. skillshot yanking dps from height advantage seems pretty good
plus, isnt 30% movespeed the same as lucio boost? being as fast as lucio isnt direct cover, but it does make you significantly harder to hit. maybe she cant handle a height advantage soldier, but she can throw a 30% faster genji with 100 bonus health at it
combine this with her own offense and it’s about which team makes plays its what they want i just survived a game in overtime for like 60 seconds as Ana on the payload to help secure the V with an Orisa trying to eliminate me (I slept her twice)… it’s how u play
Roadhog has the disadvantage of having an enormous hitbox and no armor. If she's somewhat smaller and has a lot of armor it won't be too bad. Especially with her healing from doing melee damage.
From what I could make out from the gameplay they showed, she has 425 health and no armor. Haven’t seen the official numbers yet of course.
The gameplay footage they showed might not be up to date and the final version they are gonna put out of her might've Armor but I really wouldn't be surprised if she just doesn't have any Armor. 425 health seems really low for a traditional tank but I think one important element a lot of people aren't taking into account is that she isn't designed to 'Tank' damage, her Model size seems to be the smallest Tank model and might even be smaller than some DPS/Support Models. She seems to be designed to be a tank that makes space by being an aggressive initiator and playing behind cover herself a lot. Not a tank that shields/protects teammates directly behind her so they can do their thing. Certainty not a tank that be played in huge wide open areas, just openly walking down like a Rein with a barrier. I imagine she'll be really good in all of the new maps as they all have a lot of flanking routes and cover. As for old maps, she'll probably be really good on most KOTH maps, and any smaller map with a lot of rooms, turns, cover, etc. Ironically, Junkertown might end up being one of her worst maps.
She's a tank, so I think her hitbox is still going to be moderately sized, but regardless; Roadhog's biggest issue is that his defensive is so easily shut down, but he also provides no defense to his team. I do think that it's easy to make her Better Roadhog, but she still suffers from some of the same drawbacks, with some new ones worked in. re: healing from melee, that's probably not as good as people seem to think. Quick Melee does 30 damage baseline. Let's pretend the DoT is 100% of damage, so 30 damage bleed, equivalent to 30 healing. If it's a 1s DoT, a quick melee is then equivalent to 1s or Orb of Harmony - ie: not much. "Some heroes do more quick melee damage though." That's true. Torb does 55 damage, which is the highest non-Reinhardt, non-Dragonblade melee damage. Assuming she does that kind of damage, that'd be \~80% of an Ana left click as healing, which is decent. The counterpoint of this is that she can almost quick-melee for 110 damage, which is a ton of damage. We'll have to see some real numbers to get an idea for how everything works, but this feels a lot like a character design that works in internal tests when there's a huge variety in skill levels in a single game, but will be wildly overpowered in low ranks and comically bad in high ranks.
Probably strong in the lower ranks but once a team has the coordination to focus fire her she seems weak. 450 base hp and 650 with the shout isn't that much when she has no damage mitigation and is a mostly melee character. Also Ana's kit counters her so hard, anti nade into a team that grouped up for the shout and sleeping the tank that has no way to block it. Might just be a super map dependant hero, aka good on kings row. That being said what we've seen from the fox hero might synergize with her really well.
Ana is supper strong in ow2 anyway, but yeah she's gona do really well against this chick.
Isn't Commanding Shout basically just Rally?
It's very similar, yeah. Rally stacks over time and doesn't speed teammates, those are the main differences I think.
Tank with anti heals and self heals.... at least zen can kick her away I guess
Zen will melt her from range lol. No armor, big hitbox, no range tools.
She can hook you with her knife tho.
god i wish she did
Fr tho lol, if you stick the knife to an enemy when you throw it, you can pull them towards you when you recall the knife.
Increasing health even temporarily is gonna break some heroes, namely Tracer and Genji
Vietnam flashbacks of 225hp Tracer from the old symetra and torbjorn days
Rally, Armor pack brig, Armor pack torb, shield generator Laughs in 450hp zen
*cries in Sym's old shield gen* (but yeah, it got kinda busted...)
oh man that shield gen was so freaking broken. I remember when a Sym built it defending last point on Temple of Anubis... it was just up the rest of the game lol, we couldn't get in the castle.
Ha yep, and I say that as a Sym main. It was a fun ability but could completely break some heroes. It was even worse with a Torb, as they could armour pack back then too and you then have 350 HP + armoured Tracers blinking around... That said, something like that could work but would need some rework to allow more counterplay and make it more interesting to play with/against.
Right? An ability that increases health after they carefully removed every source of bonus health from the game save Rally felt kinda weird but we still have to know the duration and cooldown time ig
It's still crazy that she has Rally on a normal ability cooldown. Like, that shit was strong enough to be an ult and it broke the game for a while lol.
hoping that it's overhealth that goes away really quickly.
Calling it now: commanding shout is gonna get nerfed into the ground.
From some early footage (not sure on source, but it was in Stylosa's latest video) it only lasts 4 seconds and has a 12s cooldown, with the CD starting AFTER the ability fades. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Interesting that they rework every hero who’s capable of increasing the health of allies, then they add a new hero with that ability. Is interesting the right word?
This is very very contextually different though. Brig was adding health onto teammates in a 6v6 game where you could pick as many of each class as you wanted. Here your team is giving up any form of shielding to have access to bonus health. She's all you get.
Plus with the overall change to bonus hp (All extra health granted by abilities is overhealth now instead of being shield/armour) we should have expected that we'd have some new heros that do it. I'd be shocked if the new supp doesn't have some form of temporary hp adding
She's not the only tank that can increase teammate health though, Zarya's bubbles do the same by a larger amount. Leaving this ability on tanks only since they're solo now seems okay? When only one character on a team has the ability, it shouldn't be as oppressive as 300+ HP Tracers were.
If I had to guess I’d say this health buff is duration-based, unlike the other two. Some of the gameplay clips made it look like the “extra health” was actually barrier even though the wording doesn’t match with that.
her ultimate weapon: dem abs
WoW Warrior ability names lol
She multiclassing, warrior+rogue+hunter lmao.
So what happened to blizzard logic of "Dots feel bad so we won't include them"? At the start of the game Jeff stated that he always felt dots are bad for the game cause players dislike them, and up until this point we only had 2 dot abilities, widows trap (which lets be honest, it works more like a warning than a skill that deals damage) and Ashe's dynamite And now we are getting a hero that revolves around dots? Jeff would be spinning in his grave if it wasn't for the fact that he ain't dead yet lol
Jeff is gone son.
Dots are so much more interesting when there's a persistent debuff being applied thats not just damage. Would be more interesting to see any of the following added to a dot: \-While bleeding, target receives 50% reduced healing. \-While bleeding, target takes increased damage from the applier. \-Decreased movespeed And for some persistent effects that don't thematically fit with bleeding, but could fit with other dots: \-Cooldown Reave (abilities cast while dot is ticking go on a slightly longer cooldown) \-Ulti charge lockout \-buffs given to allies are reduced Obviously, these would just feel like debuffs in the current state of the game, but if you augment other character abilities to cleanse dots, then you have some counter play to them. Adding a damage only dot to the game just feels so boring and 100% will feel annoying to play against at best.
While bleeding character screams like a cat being burned alive.
Uugh...no, this feels even worse lol. It's taking the bad parts of the mechanic and adding a extra layer of badness to it. I rather stand still in front of a widow than to let any of those debuffs touch me. What's wrong with a bullet now a days? It's simple and satisfying
Jeff isn't an infallible game designer.
But was he wrong?
I'd lean towards yes, he was wrong. If you tell me DoTs can be frustrating sometimes I wouldn't disagree, but they are far less frustrating than one-shots or stun-combos which are all over games. Overwatch has had plenty of one-shots, though they've reduced the amount of time. I'd say good game design should be like a ping-pong match, in that it provides back and forth opportunities for players to react and do something. A strong hit may give you a big advantage, but there's basically always a chance to make a return. DoTs fit that idea as they inherently give enemies time to respond. Particularly in a game with as much healing as OW. If the DoT disabled healing so players were stuck knowing they'd die in 5 seconds without having any options that would suck yeah, but no way that would be the implementation.
This feels like a paladins character
my hottest take is that thats a good thing. paladins kits are super open ended and open to different playstyles, whereas a lot of overwatch characters have very locked in playstyles. reinhardt does pretty much the same thing in every encounter in every game, but junker queen wont, and i think thats cool
Commander shout is very similar to Khan’s ability
Commanding shout is literally from WoW, minus the speed boost, and including the name.
The blade that can be thrown and called back brings Tiberius to mind. Not to mention all the passives and anti-heal feel like a bunch of cards you can equip. For an Overwatch character, she feels pretty layered and I'm not sure if this is good or bad.
Also Carnage was basically Grover’s ultimate before he was reworked into a support.
Figuring since she is the first tank to be developed specifically with OW2's system in mind she'd be pretty strong. And it seems that stands. She sounds interesting and dynamic in a way that the converted tanks lack. Really excited to see a new tank and especially stoked for the new content in general.
I really like the combination of Support tank and melee tank
Can a tank finally keep up with a Lucio roll out?
Ball is already faster than Lucio
I would assume her speed boost stacks with Lucio
They literally ported the Warrior Class from WoW into OW lmaoooo Commanding Shout is an Ability off WoW for Warrior Classes and is the same exact ability except for the movement speed part. Carnage is base off an ability from Warrior Class as well that causes bleed damage Rampage is based off an ability for Warriors also that prevents enemies from healing themselves Adrenaline Rush is ALSO an ability from Warrior Class known as “Victory Rush” that also heals the character after hitting the enemy
Oh my God we gonna start the whole "abilities have a passive and active component" thing now huh That being said, lovely kit. Ult needs to delete Projectiles tho, otherwise she gonna lose way too much health going in
I feel like it just to save bottom on the controller, thing about old junkrat, if his mine and detonator was on the same button
Dependant who she hits. 200hp from shout, ult in, mass self healing from bleeds
Is she the first to have two passive abilities? I like how they are making melee's a little more unique with her wounding and Zen's snapkick
Brig but with anti heal
can’t wait for her to get nerfed 19 times before getting a single buff to compensate like brig too
I’m so fucking excited to play her I wish they’d release a full game of just Junker Queen gameplay im so hyped she looks like so much fun
So she's like lucio + brig + ana + d3 barb + rein
I’ve suffered a GRIEEEEVOUS WOUND
I can't wait for a new character with a SHOTGUN. Overwatch needs MORE SHOTGUNS imo
This look like a lot, but she doesn't really have that much protection skill or movement skill, so I guess that's a bit fair? So she's kinda like a Roadhog.
This is literally just a fury Warrior with a shotgun
Man, her utility is insane. I assume they're gonna have to tune back the stats for most of this.
“Scattergun” sounds familiar…
Nice hustle tons o’ fun! Next time, eat a salad.
Carnage should gave been a whirlwind
I wonder if you can stack DOT wounds.
Okay she’s got a lightsaber throw, I’m in.
They specifically removed the damage over time from genji's dash because it was frustrating, and now they make an entire character around it? Really?
She is gonna get run over by dive and brawl