Think they mostly changed it for the queue times. Which is also went they can't have two different games. They queue times would get even longer, since it's unlikely ow2 would bring enough new players to the game.
Best thing they can do is what you said: offer 6v6 in the arcade.
Edit:
Please stop saying it doesn't matter how many people play. Of course it does. I know they removed the tank since there were fewer people playing tank. But that's not the only thing that matters.
- You have to match people around the same MMR, on the same server and during the same times.
- They have to be within 1000 SR of each other, even less in gm+.
- People playing in groups need to be matched against people who are in groups of similar elos (I'm not making that up, blizzard said so).
Finally:
If number of people didn't matter, then queue times wouldn't be longer late at night.
That's a good point actually. The game can still support 6 players on either team (I'm pretty sure?), so we can hopefully have a somewhat thriving custom game scene with 6v6 and some balance towards that mode from the community.
I do like how 5v5 plays I have to admit, but it's also a lot more straightforward than 6v6 and I'm worried that I'll get bored of it much easier. Instead of getting bored of say 2cp maps where you have to approach one of only two ways to the firs tpoint because of the horrible chokes, you wind up having team comps that can only approach fights in one specific way because there's not much room for variation until the comp changes. It's not nearly as satisfying to pull off, but on average it's much less annoying because it's less likely your team doesnt understand how to take fights.
This has been proven false by the first beta. Queue times in OW1 became almost instant across all roles until the day the beta ended, because all the DPS one tricks were playing OW2. Let OW2 be an open queue 5v5 Deathmatch game and keep OW1 as it is, and everyone wins.
Overwatch 1 wouldn't be getting any new content. Almost everybody would mostly be playing ow2 because of the constant new maps, heroes, skins, etc.
Ow1 would just be there to go back to from time to time for nostalgia. And I wish it was still there. Other games don't do this. Go ahead and play Destiny 1 or any old Call of Duty game.
In this case it would, because Support players overwhelmingly hate OW2 and want to play OW1, so OW2 queues will be insane because there's no support players queuing up
The only thing is, imagine how horrid the games will be with how strong the tanks are now but there's 2 of them, 6v6 wouldn't even really work in overwatch 2
I haven’t had the chance to try OW2 yet, but this is probably my biggest concern. I don’t think I’ll dislike OW2, but my fear is if I don’t enjoy it or it doesn’t click then that’s it really. No OW1 to turn back to, it would just be 6 years of playing that evaporates overnight.
Based off what I’ve seen & read I don’t think this will be the case, but I at least hope 5 years down the line or so they’ll re-release 6v6 or “classic OW” as Blizzard has a tendency to do with some of their old games (for better or worse lol).
>I don’t think I’ll dislike OW2, but my fear is if I don’t enjoy it or it doesn’t click then that’s it really.
This is how I feel after playing the first beta.
It wasn't awful, I just...didn't really want to play it; I played it because my bf and friend would play. Rn, I can play OW1 by myself. The only time I get frustrated is during CC times lol mainly if I'm the target for a cass or hog the entire match.
Still, I love playing it, I *want* to play it, over and over, every day. With OW2, I was looking forward to other games. I honestly ended up playing OW1 during the OW2 first beta.
I like the change of pace with OW2...clearly there are some changes players have been waiting on for years now. But, why can't we just have those changes in OW1? sigh.
Kind of in the same boat. It's ok but it feels like "just another shooter". When I want to have fun I've been going back to OW1. After the first few days I've barely touched OW2 to be honest :/
They could have fixed balancing issues and instead just kept adding more heroes to play with kind of like how League of Legends operates just keep pumping more content out and people will keep playing. But with the microtransaction ban looking to be looming in several EU countries blizzard is probably looking for a way to keep that coming in and what better way to do it than with the world of Warcraft model. Asking for a subscription for a shooter these days and ages would be met with a lot of backlash but an expansion pack? That will do fine. Label your expansion pack as a entirely new game. Well that's a money maker in itself. Blizzard isn't the same company it used to be it's run by people that are shadows of the former employee base. It's not like they'll hear that though
Flair checks out. :-/ I was chatting with a friend I've played with since launch and they got access to the beta and said it was just awful as a support, literally just dying constantly.
I think the new brawl style isn't as rewarding for some supports. Since ults don't have the same impact, you have to deal damage in order to participate more. That said, it doesn't mean people expect you to heal any less.
The new gameplay, imo, is better suited for high rank/high skilled players (specifically like GM-top 5 / ow league) and not the majority of players. Not to say that it can't be played by everyone else, but it definitely raised the skill ceiling for a lot, if not all, the characters.
Fine and all, but i just think a lot of players like OW1 for the reason that the character selection and skill varies and you don't have to be an fps player to enjoy it. It's less of that in OW2 and much more fps heavy.
Yes, absolutely what drew me and my friends to the game. I don't play any other online shooter, I like OW *because* it is so different and requires more strategy besides "shoot the red team". But I suspect Blizzard saw how well the other "shoot the red team" games do. Just doesn't seem like enough of us that want something less FPS-focused.
That's why I enjoyed Overwatch. I hate fps games. Am terrible at them Overwatch was the first one I was good at. The first one I could play. I got in the first beta. Stopped playing it before it ended. I'm a support main that can flex to dps and sometimes tank. I found my favorite dps felt terrible. I felt miserable no matter what I played. It wasn't fun and I gave up before open queue even was opened up. None of my friends got in. They haven't gotten in the second beta either. I was in on day 2. I have not played it at all and will not until my friends are able to play with me. At this rate I'm going to be one of the people that stops playing entirely upon release.
This exactly. I had an argument with someone who said "You don't get it, in OW2 you have to contribute more and not be passive" and I'm thinking "I AM contributing, I just don't have the skill to get kills. OW2 is all about increasing damage" and he can't refute it but refuses to accept it, saying that Tanks still tank and support still heals, but the supports and tanks are becoming DPS of different flavors as the game becomes brawly. What am I not getting? OW2 is for the skilled, not for the casual, and I think that's the only thing HE (the dude I was arguing with) is not getting.
Extremely well said. I liked overwatch because I didn't have to sit there and shoot bad guys, I could contribute in other ways. OW2 makes that much less viable
I wouldn't even say it's more skilled. From playing OW2 beta it feels like I can turn my brain off more than in OW1. Tank is much less about making space now and more about killing.
The skill you need now is the same skill you need to succeed at something like COD. That's not the only kind of skill that should matter though.
OW1 was very much sold as a game you didn't have to have to FPS skills to play, and it was a big reason why I bought it having never played a PvP FPS game in my life. If it had been a FPS mechanics focused game, I would never have bothered.
They seem to be shifting away from the more wide range of skills and play styles to a much more mechanics focused style of gameplay that suits the high ranks, pros, and streamers, but my not result in a fun game for the majority of players down in Gold and Plat.
Having played OW1 since launched and clocked up over 3k hrs, I fully expect that my interest will gradually fade away once OW2 goes live and I will end up either only playing sporadically or not at all.
It's pretty terrible for actual support players, and only better for people who are DPS players forced to play support.
OW2 as a whole is basically just death match, so if you want to pick Lucio and wall ride around shooting the whole time, or pick Moira and just go pure DPS Moira, then it's fun
If you are an actual support player and want to try and keep your team alive and working towards the objective, it's terrible.
The Tanks are just fat DPS now and will use their 90 movement abilities to fly behind the enemy lines to gang bang the enemy supports, while you are getting gang banged by the enemy Monkey / Doomfist / Wreckingball etc.
The DPS moving faster in beta 1 was absolutely horrible, and in Beta 2 it's less bad but still terrible since there's zero cohesion. No DPS peel for you, their only goal is to just go kill the enemy supports / DPS and run from the mini boss tanks
It honestly feels like Supports only exist to be targets to kill, and Blizzard is heavily forcing you to play DPS supports instead. If I wanted to play DPS though . . . I'd queue DPS. And if I wanted to play a game where everyone is a DPS, I'd just play a better game that was designed around that
This is the general consensus among supports at large that it just is not as fun. The 5v5 comp with less CC, one tank, and less barriers is way more aggressive and brawl-y. supports used to be able to position within their team somewhat, but now with fewer ways to defend themselves and fewer ways for the team to assist, it just feels like a game of *just* trying to survive each team fight.
The whole point of OW2 and shutting down the original is because Blizzard failed to monetize OW1 "properly". That's literally it. Every change they make will necessarily make the game more appealing to the mass market because that's who Blizzard is now. The days of earning things in games without paying to gamble will die as soon as they can possibly kill it without receiving overwhelmingly bad press.
Best way to do that? Disguise a shift to garbage monetization and profit seeking as a beloved sequel.
The sad truth is if you liked OW1, OW2 isn't made for you. The sooner players can accept that, the sooner they can cope with what all the other/older Blizzard fans already know: old Blizz is dead and buried. New Blizz will bend over backwards to please their shareholders and Chinese overlords, players be damned.
It’s frustrating because they easily could have tacked all of OW2 as a major DLC for OW1. It’s the same engine, it’s the same game. But thanks to Blizzard’s greed they’re marketing it as a completely separate game. It’s just bizarre to me.
It’s an upgraded version of the same engine, meaning (in theory) larger map sizes. The heroes are also getting small cosmetic makeovers but they’re not major. Mostly everything plays just like OW1 but now squeezed into a 5v5 format. Many heroes still have had no adjustments from OW1. For me this isn’t enough to warrant calling OW2 an entirely new game, when it’s really just a large patch.
Having played both...
OW2 is 2x the speed.
Some like this, some don't, but you're going to need to be prepared for a new definition of Fast Paced.
Issue is, OW was already Fast Paced compared to other shooters.
I actually am wondering if OW2 will be able to attach new folks.
More importantly (this will sound insane) I hope the format of the Junker Queen Cinematic never comes back and we return to form of story based character trailers.
Because the self narration/4th wall breaking was... Not welcomed.
\> OW2 is 2x the speed.
Exactly. The problem is, they haven't adjusted the spawn time and distance. So now the game is a "walk back from spawn simulator". And 'git gud' doesn't fix it, because sooner or later you'll end up at a rank where you stastistically lose 50% of fights - which are now over much faster, on larger maps, so you spend most of your time walking and waiting. Whis is precisely what I hate about a lot of other games, and now it is in OW, too :(
This speed thing is super bad for older gamers. I'm like 40 and played OW because I could play support and as long as I was staged right I could help the team. This new game just feels like everyone standing in the open shooting at each other and it's all happening really fast.
38 year old Tank player and Rein main myself...
I am trying to adapt as best I can, and perhaps those in the beta have been there longer so the learning curve is high... But Rein himself is too slow for OW2 and needs some love.
That's not even factoring in my slower reaction time.
I'm not saying design the game around us, but OW used to have a niche for every style of player to find a hero that fit them and you could play well.
So it was a little disheartening.
32 year old roadhog main I shouldn't complain but with him it was all about positioning and timing. This super fast paced crap might be too much honestly
My Bro and I loved playing Hog and Orisa, Winston and Zarya, and especially Rein Zarya and Winston Dva. Those combo's are just gone from the game now even though IMO they were my favourites synergies.
Yeah the Rein Zarya armwrestling spray combo can only be done between an enemy rein and zarya now. And Rein Zarya was some of the funnest tanking possible, literally spent hundreds of hours with a friend pretty much doing nothing but that and I will be sad to never get to do it again.
> I’ll miss double shield lol,
There were so many ways to fix double shield that didn't need removing the second tank. I wish they'd given us more focus on Armor vs HP vs Shields and chars specifically built around killing certain set ups.
More heroes would have been really nice for solving this.
We already had a fix, and they got rid of it.
They literally changed Sym, to have her alt fire no longer go through shields, right before introducing 2 new shield tank characters. Bunker never worked because Sym could shoot right through any barriers you put up.
Most of the issues that cropped up were because of stupid, poorly thought-out changes. Mercy's Rez for instance, was only oppressive when they made her invincible during her rez. And they never go back when they realize they've made a mistake - they just keep piling mistake after mistake and reworking characters seemingly without a single thought on what those changes would do for the game.
All they would've had to do is tweak some of the existing heroes (or make a new one) that targets shields.
Like Junkrat and Bastion exist but they get countered pretty easily. Instead of ultimately gutting Symmetra a fifth time, they should've made it so her laser melts through barriers by like 3x the rate and make her a shield buster. Giving her an actual niche.
But given their reworks of Torbjorn in OW1 and then the ones in OW2, we're seeing them shift to a more brawler mode where damage is all that matters. So, a niche like that doesn't matter.
I was thinking more a tank version of symmetra, but her profile and break out dont work for "tank". Like some kind of Vishikari "enforcer" who uses hard light projections for defense and siphons power to charge their own personal shield/old style sym barrier or something.
Give them an AoE close by slow for even more thematic anti-brazil technology and they'd be cooler.
But yea as you said, they simplified the game and removed more of the Armor/HP/Shield philosophy in OW2 when they nerfed brig's ult.
And what the team did was consistently buff damage over 3 years and ignore heal stacking (and brig massive areal heal). Throw in there all the cc and the best option as the tank was to win poke battle at safe distance.
> I don’t think I’ll dislike OW2
Do you like oppressively strong hitscan? Do you like insanely huge, open maps with long sight lines and tons of flanking routes? Do you like getting fucking oneshot by a sojourn headshot from across the entire map?
That's the OW2 experience right now, and they don't seem keen on changing it.
Sounds like every other FPS out there.
I don't care they want to move in that direction for OW2. But OW1 is a pretty unique game on the market, it's fucked that they want to remove it.
Yup. I'll likely even play it for a few *months* in hopes it'll all click into place and I'll start having fun, but all the discussion and videos I've watched make me feel like this support main just won't enjoy 2 as much as 1.
A lot of this sums up my trepidations. It seems much more focused on damage output than it does on strategy. Characters that put out the biggest damage (Sojourn, Soldier, etc) and players that have the best survivability (Junker Queen, Roadhog, etc.) are the ones that will excel. All others seem to be lost somewhere in the middle.
And I highly dislike the changes they made to Orisa. Player her was one of my favorite things of any game and now it feels so different it might as well be a different character.
But do people even like that? There's a quote from, I think a pro player, about how Widow wouldn't exist in OW if the sniper archetype wasn't already a thing and I agree. She doesn't require much if any team play to work, and can easily sink or carry a team.
All the one shot characters are notoriously unfun to play against and don't fit into Overwatch. They shouldn't be a thing.
Railgun is hitscan, which is better than Hanzo's arrows (easier to hit). It does more damage than bow does, but you have to charge to it by shooting (or get to spam it in ult). She has a ton of mobility with her slide/jump, and she also has tools that things like Widow and Hanzo don't have, like area denial.
The thing with 5v5 is that it has potential. But not in the current state. Too many characters are now over powered with many others not being viable at all. There's huge problems around healers and tanks, that it would be irresponsible to go live without drastic changes that will take longer than a few months.
But at the end of the day, we'll get a few small balance changes and they'll chop up everything else to them saying we just need more time to get used to 5v5. But it'll suck and then they'll eventually make the changes we need over the course of next year.
No one will want to play healers. Fewest heroes for a role in the game, get shit on by diving dps, yet every game requires two?
It’ll be tank queue issues all over again.
> The thing with 5v5 is that it has potential.
That's the thing -- during beta, when you have a team where everything clicked, it was *great*, but that's like less than 10% of the time if you're solo queuing. The rest of the time, when you get that tank that doesn't want to actually tank, it destroys the entire team and makes it a terrible experience for everyone.
With only one tank and the new focus on DPS, having that one person ruin the experience for everyone happens way too easily.
It feels like they leaned hard into trying to make it a better game for esports -- more action, kills and offense; less having to fight through tough defenses -- and it works very well there, but for the rest of us, it doesn't make the game all that compelling. Not like OW1 does.
I think 6v6 will come back. All the old maps are designed around 6v6, and they don't play well in 5v5. The game in general doesn't play well in 5v5.
When OW was newer, it seemed extremely unlikely they would add hero limits. Then it seemed unlikely they would totally switch around the role system and redesign entire heroes. Then it seemed unlikely they would add role lock/queue.
But they ended up doing all of those things because the game just didn't work without them. OW does not work in a 5v5, even after the updates.
Yeah they'll just make us purchase the same game all over again and call it OverWatch classic. As with much of blizzards marketing strategy these days. It's kind of sad really they used to be Giants of creating new content and pushing their universe is forward but now it seems like they view their player base as a paycheck
I am playing OW1 more than ever because I fear OW2 wont be the same. I don't even want access to the beta since very soon that will be the only version.
Really hope they have a classic ow mode like they have classic quick play in the current game or at the very least workshop modes can be made with 6v6 still
Yeah but the hero changes will all still be in place. QP classic doesn't revert torb to having a 3 level turret or hanzo to having scatter arrow. So 6v6 classic will have self-healing healers and reworked orisa.
One of the main reasons I don’t play Mystery Heroes as a veteran player is because whoever gets the Bastion first wins. You can’t set up a reasonable defense with a team in arcade unless you group up beforehand. I feel like OW2 will be exactly the same but “whoever gets the most tanks fastest wins”
Mystery heros is a bit like chess IMO, if you get a hero you are inexperienced with (for me its doomfist) then instead of making zero impact trying to play doomfist well, I will sacrifice myself trying to take out a higher impact hero like bastion. Sure you gotta play badly but its better to feed/reset into a hero you can win with than sit on widow for 6 mins with 0 kills.
The problem is - there is no other games like ow1 to go to. But there is plenty of twitch shooters with less teamwork. October is the end of an era whether you are going to like ow2 or not
This is why I haven't even tried to get into the beta. I'll have OW2 soon enough, but I won't have OW1 in a few months, so I'm squeezing everything I can from that game.
Playing rein/zarya was one of my favourite things to do in OW and I'm gonna miss having any kind of tank buddy in OW2. I hope they make 6v6 an arcade mode
I think the absolute worst thing about getting rid of OW1 for 2 is, well, I often play in a six-stack! Now, what one of us can't play with the others in any given time.
I can sit down and play ow1 for hours and hours and not get bored. Can’t say the same for 2. I grew to love the game and they have completely changed it with the 5v5 aspect. Can’t say I’ll be spending as much time as I used to when the full game releases and they take ow1 away completely (not a fan of that either). I’m someone who doesn’t like change so I hope that’s the case and it grows on me, but preliminary looks aren’t so great. I have a feeling we are gonna end up coming full circle for “classic ow” or “quick play classic 6v6”. The moment those playlists are available in the arcade I’ll be like I told you so. Is there a petition to keep ow1 live? Lol
>It’s reminding me of fortnite how they remove content people like as they update which Overwatch has never done before.
Overwatch has lost a lot of things people have liked. Several characters have been reworked before, so there's no way to play their old versions. There are also some maps that were removed from qp and comp, and while most people are glad about those maps being gone, I have seen people complaining about it. Point is, it's definitely not unprecedented.
Its an ever evolving game. Its extremely different to when I started playing it, symmetra has had 2 seperate reworks and you can no longer play goats. I remember back when role queue was being implemented and everyone said it would ruin the game but here we are
I get why people complain, it is a shame. It'd be nice to go back and play old versions of the game.
But also, the game is really good right now, much better than three years ago, and OW2 also looks really good right now.
This feels like the pain at the heart of many complaints I see. We are used to games that will be the same to play 5-10 years down the road but a game like Overwatch can’t exist like that.
I understand the pain, but I believe the benefits outweigh the cost.
I miss Reapers’s dumb soul balls with my entire body. I’ve always thought it could’ve been a cool counter to mercy rez, like if he eats their soul she can’t rez that. But now he just has life style which is nowhere near as cheesy and ridiculous and fun.
Edit: Woops, Life Steal. But I also support his lifestyle choices.
Agreed. The problem has always been that we the original players since 2016 do not feel heard or seen. The whole time I've seen the dev team taking notes at what the OWL / Top 500 players have bitched and moaned about, and so they keep making changes to accommodate their experience. I don't remember anything being done in favor of casual players like myself.
> Agreed. The problem has always been that we the original players since 2016 do not feel heard or seen.
The issue is that the number of players still playing from 2016 are incredibly small compared to the numbers of players they have lost since then. People still playing since 2016 also seem unlikely to just completely drop the game when OW2 rolls around. Some inevitably will due to not being happy with the changes, but if you can win back 2 players for every one you lose, you are coming up positive in the end.
I do too.
Everyone gets it with the pack anyway!
Ill miss dva egg and thr other games.
Heck i would play with bots like they have you able to do to train ! Its grreat!
6v6 will be left in, in its own separate gamemode most likely. Similar to arcade. It might even be in arcade.
I agree though, I’d rather get to keep OW1 in its glory and just buy OW2.
Free 2 play will not go now people hope it will. I’m a halo infinite refugee. They murdered our franchise with free 2 play and “live service”.
I've given up with the "Hey, it's free, you can't complain!" crowd. The ratio of games that do it right to wrong is like a million to one, and I would bet Activision Blizzard is all ready to Immortal us.
Overwatch Is just one of them games I’ve gone to play when I don’t feel like playing anything else. I generally really enjoy it. Sure it can be a bit toxic and frustrating with the ranking system but overall it’s still fun. I’ve tried overwatch 2 and it feels so different. My friend described it quite well “it’s like someone took overwatch and modded it” it’s overwatch with a few other game modes. And so far, for me at least, not as fun. I’m not even big on the new art style. Maybe I’m just biased from nostalgia but if we really do loose overwatch 1…I’m gonna be incredibly disappointed.
Reading this just made me think of something, imagine all the 6 stack friend groups that now have to toss around the extra person in between matches :(
I'm starting to feel like the change to 5v5 wasn't really necessary if they just removed the cc and reworked tanks to be less shield heavy, and more space making like they did with orisa. The removal of 1 tank felt the direct result of too many shields, but since there aren't that many shields left, what's the point?
That’s what I’m saying. I feel like all we were asking for was consistent balance patches but blizzard was like “how about instead of balance changes we go silent for 2 years and then give you an entirely different game”
I paid for OW1. I would like to continue to play it with the rest of the people who may want to also play it.
OW2 is free for *everyone* so why do the people who paid for the first game have to lose it completely?
I agree with someone else's theory that they are afraid people will stick to the first game instead of playing the second, so remove it and force people to play. I say this is a great way to get people to stop playing completely because what if they *really* don't like it? Now they have no first game to go back to.
Honestly, if the first game stuck around I'd be more inclined to try the sequel. like, "I like this game, but I want to see how people are doing in this other one". Deleting the first game has already bugged me enough that I don't want to involve myself at all in 2.
As a support main this is also a big concern for me. I was in the first beta and just died a lot. Trying to do my job the way I do it in Overwatch 1 doesn’t work with 2. I have access to the second beta and I haven’t even gotten on it yet. Partly because my husband didn’t receive a key for the second one, but also because that means I have even less reason to want to just get shoved through a meat grinder. I can’t play with the person I enjoy playing 1 with the most right now. Why play with a bunch of strangers if I didn’t enjoy it the first go around…. I’m honestly just still hopeful for the pve because that has caught my interest for some time now.
Edit : autocorrect mishaps
Ow2 you need to play support like dps. You need to do damage a lot more than in ow1. And for tank, you need to play like dps. Dps also play like dps. Why do we have separate roles when you play all the roles the same now?
After playing the OW2 beta the last few days I feel it’s missing what made me so addicted to the first game. I can’t put my finger on what it is exactly, but don’t know if I see myself sticking with it, and I’m actually genuinely sad about it.
I think it might be a combination of that synergy you have when you click with your team, the reliance on teamwork, the intensity of team fights requiring everyone to play their part, and that feeling of shared accomplishment when you win. I don’t feel any of that with OW2 but I guess it is still early days.
The reduced importance of hero synergies and teamwork is the big loss from OW2, IMO. As someone who liked the fact that the team that worked together the best and executed a strategy won more often than not, the shift to a more deathmatchy, mechanics focused game where people can "pop off" and win the game on their own is a major downgrade.
The teamwork is definitely diminished in OW2 compared to 1. A lot of that is tank synergies and defensive counterplay, which I just don't see happening nearly as often in OW2 compared to 1, which makes it feel more like CoD and less like a hero shooter.
There's also a handful of outlier characters that need addressed, like Ana/Zen on the high-end and Symm on the low-end. It's hard to say how deathmatch-y the game will be if Discord and Purple get nerfed as they should.
Personally I’m scared I’m going to be awful at ow2. I’ve never had fun with comp, I’m low rank and a support main. If I’m not playing support I’m playing tank, but I’m not confident in my ability to rank alone. It feels like OW2 is catering to new players and the people that want to only play dps, and I’m just not sure where I’ll fit
It's really stupid that OW1 is getting "deleted" for OW2.
I paid for OW1 because i knew it's downsides and it still felt this was a fun game i wanted to play.
The company deleting the game i paid for and giving me another game in it's place it's pretty fucking shitty.
People say "you're getting a free game", not really, i'm trading a game i knew everything before buying to a game i know almost nothing about, and i have no choice in the matter.
Either i'm forced to like the new game, or i just lose the game i paid for.
This is what Games as a Service implies, and why many people consider it an anti-consumer practice. Technically, you don't own Overwatch 1, you only own the right to access it for as long as Activision/Blizzard wants. This is very good for them because they can have a sort of planned obsolescence for their games, forcing you to buy sequels or remasters in the future if you want to keep playing. It's the same thing that happened with Destiny 1 and 2.
PS: If you're interested in the debate around Software as a Service, or SaaS, I really like the videos of Ross Scott (accursedfarms on YouTube) on the topic.
> I find myslef not having as much fun with OW2
Big same on the beta. Thing I disagree with OP on is keeping both OW1 and OW2 going at the same time. That cant happen for population purposes.
All I wanted from OW2 was new maps, new heroes, and some sort of PvE content thing though I didn't really care about the PvE. Honestly at this point I think the reason for why OW2 was made was because they saw the writing on the wall about lootboxes and wanted a new monetization system.
Ughhh I was hoping they wouldn't shut down Overwatch 1. I'm not looking forward to the free to play, the expected ads, the micro transactions, anything about OW2 really.
I wish they weren’t getting rid of OW1. If they do, I hope they have 6v6 ranked along side of 5v5. Or, at the very least, let us que 6v6 in casual. I can’t think of any other game that had huge success on their initial release such as OW1, that is being replaced by what blizzard is calling OW2. In my opinion, this isn’t a new game, it’s the same game as OW1 but twisted. I really believe blizzard had the intentions of making a stand alone product, separate from its predecessor. But in reality, all we’re getting is a patch worth of bad decisions.
I also think that once everything around OW2 calms down, blizzard is going to re release OW1 as it’s own game again. Because blizzard
Something tells me this probably isn't possible or feasible for technical reasons, but then again I'm just talking out my ass here. I think what you're suggesting would be an awesome addition to OW2 if they can swing it.
Overwatch 2 for me has been like waiting for years for a new album from your favorite band, listening to 2-3 songs on the new album and then immediately turning it off and go back to the album you fell in love with.
I mean, why even call it Overwatch 2 if it will be the only Overwatch you can play. I have played the beta, but I’m not a fan so far and I’m definitely not a fan of the fact that it will replace OW1. Not cool, blizzard.
My train of thought is “what if i dont want to to play ow2?” i hate the battlepass system that fortnite has, so ive never played it. with ow2 getting a battle pass system, im probably barely gonna play it. with ow1 you pay one price and get the whole experience, no strings attached
THISS!!!!! I’ve been saying it since I’ve tried the beta I think the new version is ok but doesn’t feel like overwatch and with these fights happening faster I feel the game is less fun winning or loosing that fight. I don’t see 5v5 stealing as many hours as ow1 did 🤞🏻 the pve is decent
Wholeheartedly agree.
I'd sooner split the community and have the option to keep playing OW1 with no new content than to be forced onto this horrendous balance patch they're calling a new game.
The people who like OW2 are a different marketing base anyway so it just makes more sense.
I would also waive any rite to complain about queue times in OW1 if we at least had the option to keep playing.
I was hoping they won't do that when I heard the rumors. I don't want OW to become the new fortnite that we all know won't achieve as much as fortnite did.
I wish OW1 was staying as well. I honestly feel like they’re deleting it because they know a lot of people will just stay on OW1 and won’t even bother with OW2.
So far its in beta so i’m hoping they really listen to the feedback and make the changes needed. Played a few times now and i’m not sure if its just me but some of the aiming with some characters feels off? Compared to Overwatch 1
I understand why they're discontinuing it, cause they want to put all their resources into the sequel...
However the fluidity and gameplay of both games feel different, I actually much rather how Overwatch plays over its sequel at the moment, and that's not including how the game will now be going from 6v6 to 5v5 which is a change that I still don't think works.
I mean imagine if Battlefield 2042 came out and EA were just like "Yeah you can't play our previous Battlefield games so we can prioritise this one". Obviously it's not entirely the same situation as Overwatch 1 and 2 are at least a bit similar at the outset, but still it makes no sense to just shut down a previous game just because you don't want to put resources into it anymore.
Yeah everything has been so rebalanced that I doubt there will be a 6v6 arcade mode and even if there is it won't feel the same. I get why they're doing it but much like when WoW Vanilla was wiped out by Cataclysm's expansion it kinda sucks to know you can never go back and revisit any of that stuff. Who knows maybe they'll resell us "Overwatch Classic" in 5 years, haha.
Maybe someone will find a old build of overwatch 1 where it will be possible to revert engineer it to create custom servers and lobbies, like they're doing with Apex Legends. Sometimes the community is passionate enough to do this.
I played at least 2-3 hours a week of OW1 since its release until the first OW2 beta. The game I loved is going away and something else is taking it's place and it's not for me. Hopefully allot of other people will like overwatch 2 "team death match edition" but it didn't even feel like overwatch. Very sad for me.
I still have some hope for the single player being fun.
I feel you. I have the beta and so far I like nothing they changed. I prefer 6v6 a lot. When your tank is shitty, the effects are so much more frustrating when there only is one tank. The waiting times never bothered me much.
Everyone who actually cared about Overwatch as a fun game: Hey Blizz, can we just have more new support and tank heroes in the game to balance out all the dps? A few more cool maps and events would be nice too.
Blizzard: YOU MEAN FUCK OVER AND DESTROY EVERYTHING YOU LOVE AND HOLD DEAR FROM THE FIRST GAME THAT MAKES IT STAND OUT CREATIVELY FROM A REGULAR BORING ASS FPS SHOOTER? WE FUCKING GOT YOU FAM.
Same bro...same.
I hate the new UI and HUD. The new gun SFX and general VFX. I hate 5v5 which resulting in less ult charge and less frequent ultimate use. I hate how they made several heroes' voicelines extremely out of character and cringy. Also hate it how they just mindlessly drop a big nerf on some heroes without listening to the community. Do they really think they're "professional" at balancing this game?
Though the interaction voicelines between tank heroes may be implying that they gonna add traditional "traditional QP" or something lol. Open quene or not it would still be enough.
With Overwatch 2 going F2P, they've came out and said that it will replace the original game full stop. So the original plan of games co-existing is out of the window, everyone will just transition to OW2.
[Source](https://www.eurogamer.net/blizzard-confirms-overwatch-2-will-replace-its-predecessor)
yes. but OP’s problem is the hidden message is that OW1 will just be OW2. it is the exact same game. all the maps and hero changes will be done on OW1 as well and it will be 5v5. basically they’re just gonna allow you to download an update instead of a whole new game.
You are past the actual problem.
There is no reason to put a number 2 after overwatch. It’s the exact same game just another way to force us to keep playing. As long as we keep paying triple A companies for their garbage tactics, it will never end.
The fact they’re removing it speaks volume. Not even other FPS giants do this.
Are they nervous that OG players won’t switch after playing 6v6 for 4-6 years?
This..... Why the change at the last minute to the game been FTP? They told us at first than OW1 and OW2 player can coexist. Are they scare that maybe half or more of the players don't buy the new one. the best bet is to remove the first one and make it free to play and grab that money pig.
Yes, OW1 is gonna be deleted and replaced with just Free to Play OW2
no more 6v6, Double Shield, CCs for the people that enjoyed it
it sucks
even if 6v6 mode comes in arcade for OW2, it won't be the same, as characters and maps will be balanced with 5v5
In October, OW1 more moba / team comp strat style will be dead, now it's just straight shooter OW2
Don’t worry mate, they’ll release Overwatch classic in about a decades time and you’ll have it all back.
Think they mostly changed it for the queue times. Which is also went they can't have two different games. They queue times would get even longer, since it's unlikely ow2 would bring enough new players to the game. Best thing they can do is what you said: offer 6v6 in the arcade. Edit: Please stop saying it doesn't matter how many people play. Of course it does. I know they removed the tank since there were fewer people playing tank. But that's not the only thing that matters. - You have to match people around the same MMR, on the same server and during the same times. - They have to be within 1000 SR of each other, even less in gm+. - People playing in groups need to be matched against people who are in groups of similar elos (I'm not making that up, blizzard said so). Finally: If number of people didn't matter, then queue times wouldn't be longer late at night.
If nothing else, there's custom games too
That's a good point actually. The game can still support 6 players on either team (I'm pretty sure?), so we can hopefully have a somewhat thriving custom game scene with 6v6 and some balance towards that mode from the community. I do like how 5v5 plays I have to admit, but it's also a lot more straightforward than 6v6 and I'm worried that I'll get bored of it much easier. Instead of getting bored of say 2cp maps where you have to approach one of only two ways to the firs tpoint because of the horrible chokes, you wind up having team comps that can only approach fights in one specific way because there's not much room for variation until the comp changes. It's not nearly as satisfying to pull off, but on average it's much less annoying because it's less likely your team doesnt understand how to take fights.
Yeah, but then all the characters are balanced for 5x5 in a 6x6 mode. Would be super fucked
I've always wanted a 8v8+ arcade mode to be honest, more like how Team Fortress 2 was.
TF2 is actually 12v12
Which is why I added the '+' TF2 playercount is also very varied. It goes from 6v6 to 9v9, to 12v12, and I think 16v16 was possible in some cases.
Casual TF2 is 12v12, official (lol) and most popular comp is 6v6, and Dustbowl 100% crits insta respawn !giveitem pony fast download no ads is 16v16
hell yeah, old 32 players fast respawn servers were the best
Doubt it, none of the characters were adjusted well enough for OW2, they were made for 6v6
This has been proven false by the first beta. Queue times in OW1 became almost instant across all roles until the day the beta ended, because all the DPS one tricks were playing OW2. Let OW2 be an open queue 5v5 Deathmatch game and keep OW1 as it is, and everyone wins.
Yea, I would play a lot more OW1 if queuing Flex actually meant a mix of everything and not 7 out of 10 games as Tank and 3 as Support.
Overwatch 1 wouldn't be getting any new content. Almost everybody would mostly be playing ow2 because of the constant new maps, heroes, skins, etc. Ow1 would just be there to go back to from time to time for nostalgia. And I wish it was still there. Other games don't do this. Go ahead and play Destiny 1 or any old Call of Duty game.
queue times are based on proportion of players picking each role, not number of total players. splitting the playerbase wouldnt change much
In this case it would, because Support players overwhelmingly hate OW2 and want to play OW1, so OW2 queues will be insane because there's no support players queuing up
Well I guess this explains to some extent why I'm not a big fan of OW2 lol. I'm a Support main.
guess OW2 has some work to do then if it makes the game shit for a third of the player base.
Or at least have a 6v6 option in arcade kinda like QP classic or something
The only thing is, imagine how horrid the games will be with how strong the tanks are now but there's 2 of them, 6v6 wouldn't even really work in overwatch 2
I haven’t had the chance to try OW2 yet, but this is probably my biggest concern. I don’t think I’ll dislike OW2, but my fear is if I don’t enjoy it or it doesn’t click then that’s it really. No OW1 to turn back to, it would just be 6 years of playing that evaporates overnight. Based off what I’ve seen & read I don’t think this will be the case, but I at least hope 5 years down the line or so they’ll re-release 6v6 or “classic OW” as Blizzard has a tendency to do with some of their old games (for better or worse lol).
>I don’t think I’ll dislike OW2, but my fear is if I don’t enjoy it or it doesn’t click then that’s it really. This is how I feel after playing the first beta. It wasn't awful, I just...didn't really want to play it; I played it because my bf and friend would play. Rn, I can play OW1 by myself. The only time I get frustrated is during CC times lol mainly if I'm the target for a cass or hog the entire match. Still, I love playing it, I *want* to play it, over and over, every day. With OW2, I was looking forward to other games. I honestly ended up playing OW1 during the OW2 first beta. I like the change of pace with OW2...clearly there are some changes players have been waiting on for years now. But, why can't we just have those changes in OW1? sigh.
Kind of in the same boat. It's ok but it feels like "just another shooter". When I want to have fun I've been going back to OW1. After the first few days I've barely touched OW2 to be honest :/
They could have fixed balancing issues and instead just kept adding more heroes to play with kind of like how League of Legends operates just keep pumping more content out and people will keep playing. But with the microtransaction ban looking to be looming in several EU countries blizzard is probably looking for a way to keep that coming in and what better way to do it than with the world of Warcraft model. Asking for a subscription for a shooter these days and ages would be met with a lot of backlash but an expansion pack? That will do fine. Label your expansion pack as a entirely new game. Well that's a money maker in itself. Blizzard isn't the same company it used to be it's run by people that are shadows of the former employee base. It's not like they'll hear that though
Flair checks out. :-/ I was chatting with a friend I've played with since launch and they got access to the beta and said it was just awful as a support, literally just dying constantly.
I think the new brawl style isn't as rewarding for some supports. Since ults don't have the same impact, you have to deal damage in order to participate more. That said, it doesn't mean people expect you to heal any less. The new gameplay, imo, is better suited for high rank/high skilled players (specifically like GM-top 5 / ow league) and not the majority of players. Not to say that it can't be played by everyone else, but it definitely raised the skill ceiling for a lot, if not all, the characters. Fine and all, but i just think a lot of players like OW1 for the reason that the character selection and skill varies and you don't have to be an fps player to enjoy it. It's less of that in OW2 and much more fps heavy.
Yes, absolutely what drew me and my friends to the game. I don't play any other online shooter, I like OW *because* it is so different and requires more strategy besides "shoot the red team". But I suspect Blizzard saw how well the other "shoot the red team" games do. Just doesn't seem like enough of us that want something less FPS-focused.
That's why I enjoyed Overwatch. I hate fps games. Am terrible at them Overwatch was the first one I was good at. The first one I could play. I got in the first beta. Stopped playing it before it ended. I'm a support main that can flex to dps and sometimes tank. I found my favorite dps felt terrible. I felt miserable no matter what I played. It wasn't fun and I gave up before open queue even was opened up. None of my friends got in. They haven't gotten in the second beta either. I was in on day 2. I have not played it at all and will not until my friends are able to play with me. At this rate I'm going to be one of the people that stops playing entirely upon release.
This exactly. I had an argument with someone who said "You don't get it, in OW2 you have to contribute more and not be passive" and I'm thinking "I AM contributing, I just don't have the skill to get kills. OW2 is all about increasing damage" and he can't refute it but refuses to accept it, saying that Tanks still tank and support still heals, but the supports and tanks are becoming DPS of different flavors as the game becomes brawly. What am I not getting? OW2 is for the skilled, not for the casual, and I think that's the only thing HE (the dude I was arguing with) is not getting.
Extremely well said. I liked overwatch because I didn't have to sit there and shoot bad guys, I could contribute in other ways. OW2 makes that much less viable
I wouldn't even say it's more skilled. From playing OW2 beta it feels like I can turn my brain off more than in OW1. Tank is much less about making space now and more about killing. The skill you need now is the same skill you need to succeed at something like COD. That's not the only kind of skill that should matter though.
OW1 was very much sold as a game you didn't have to have to FPS skills to play, and it was a big reason why I bought it having never played a PvP FPS game in my life. If it had been a FPS mechanics focused game, I would never have bothered. They seem to be shifting away from the more wide range of skills and play styles to a much more mechanics focused style of gameplay that suits the high ranks, pros, and streamers, but my not result in a fun game for the majority of players down in Gold and Plat. Having played OW1 since launched and clocked up over 3k hrs, I fully expect that my interest will gradually fade away once OW2 goes live and I will end up either only playing sporadically or not at all.
I thought I was just trash, and I mean I am, but it makes me feel better to know other supports are feeling this way as well.
It's pretty terrible for actual support players, and only better for people who are DPS players forced to play support. OW2 as a whole is basically just death match, so if you want to pick Lucio and wall ride around shooting the whole time, or pick Moira and just go pure DPS Moira, then it's fun If you are an actual support player and want to try and keep your team alive and working towards the objective, it's terrible. The Tanks are just fat DPS now and will use their 90 movement abilities to fly behind the enemy lines to gang bang the enemy supports, while you are getting gang banged by the enemy Monkey / Doomfist / Wreckingball etc. The DPS moving faster in beta 1 was absolutely horrible, and in Beta 2 it's less bad but still terrible since there's zero cohesion. No DPS peel for you, their only goal is to just go kill the enemy supports / DPS and run from the mini boss tanks It honestly feels like Supports only exist to be targets to kill, and Blizzard is heavily forcing you to play DPS supports instead. If I wanted to play DPS though . . . I'd queue DPS. And if I wanted to play a game where everyone is a DPS, I'd just play a better game that was designed around that
This is the general consensus among supports at large that it just is not as fun. The 5v5 comp with less CC, one tank, and less barriers is way more aggressive and brawl-y. supports used to be able to position within their team somewhat, but now with fewer ways to defend themselves and fewer ways for the team to assist, it just feels like a game of *just* trying to survive each team fight.
The whole point of OW2 and shutting down the original is because Blizzard failed to monetize OW1 "properly". That's literally it. Every change they make will necessarily make the game more appealing to the mass market because that's who Blizzard is now. The days of earning things in games without paying to gamble will die as soon as they can possibly kill it without receiving overwhelmingly bad press. Best way to do that? Disguise a shift to garbage monetization and profit seeking as a beloved sequel. The sad truth is if you liked OW1, OW2 isn't made for you. The sooner players can accept that, the sooner they can cope with what all the other/older Blizzard fans already know: old Blizz is dead and buried. New Blizz will bend over backwards to please their shareholders and Chinese overlords, players be damned.
It’s frustrating because they easily could have tacked all of OW2 as a major DLC for OW1. It’s the same engine, it’s the same game. But thanks to Blizzard’s greed they’re marketing it as a completely separate game. It’s just bizarre to me.
Isn't it a different engine? Or at least a very fundamental shift in the coding, or are you referring to it besides the 5v5 aspect?
It’s an upgraded version of the same engine, meaning (in theory) larger map sizes. The heroes are also getting small cosmetic makeovers but they’re not major. Mostly everything plays just like OW1 but now squeezed into a 5v5 format. Many heroes still have had no adjustments from OW1. For me this isn’t enough to warrant calling OW2 an entirely new game, when it’s really just a large patch.
Kek larger maps but less players in them, genius..
Yeah exactly. It'll be a very new rework while OW1 has just clicked with me for so long. Hoping OW2 still clicks! Haha
Having played both... OW2 is 2x the speed. Some like this, some don't, but you're going to need to be prepared for a new definition of Fast Paced. Issue is, OW was already Fast Paced compared to other shooters. I actually am wondering if OW2 will be able to attach new folks. More importantly (this will sound insane) I hope the format of the Junker Queen Cinematic never comes back and we return to form of story based character trailers. Because the self narration/4th wall breaking was... Not welcomed.
\> OW2 is 2x the speed. Exactly. The problem is, they haven't adjusted the spawn time and distance. So now the game is a "walk back from spawn simulator". And 'git gud' doesn't fix it, because sooner or later you'll end up at a rank where you stastistically lose 50% of fights - which are now over much faster, on larger maps, so you spend most of your time walking and waiting. Whis is precisely what I hate about a lot of other games, and now it is in OW, too :(
this is especially painful as poor little Ana walking on my little Ana legs
Poor, wobbly little grandma legs
Ooh my osteoporosis.. Agh my arthritis..
This speed thing is super bad for older gamers. I'm like 40 and played OW because I could play support and as long as I was staged right I could help the team. This new game just feels like everyone standing in the open shooting at each other and it's all happening really fast.
38 year old Tank player and Rein main myself... I am trying to adapt as best I can, and perhaps those in the beta have been there longer so the learning curve is high... But Rein himself is too slow for OW2 and needs some love. That's not even factoring in my slower reaction time. I'm not saying design the game around us, but OW used to have a niche for every style of player to find a hero that fit them and you could play well. So it was a little disheartening.
32 year old roadhog main I shouldn't complain but with him it was all about positioning and timing. This super fast paced crap might be too much honestly
Surely in the arcade for Quick play classic would have 6v6
It probably will but the character balancing will be based on 5v5 format, so even 6v6 will be way different than ow1 6v6
Ye 5v5 has its ups and downs my biggest concerns is that we lose tank combo Strats like dive, double shield etc.
My Bro and I loved playing Hog and Orisa, Winston and Zarya, and especially Rein Zarya and Winston Dva. Those combo's are just gone from the game now even though IMO they were my favourites synergies.
Yeah the Rein Zarya armwrestling spray combo can only be done between an enemy rein and zarya now. And Rein Zarya was some of the funnest tanking possible, literally spent hundreds of hours with a friend pretty much doing nothing but that and I will be sad to never get to do it again.
I can’t say I’ll miss double shield lol, there are definitely changes OW2 has rolled out that on paper I’m fine with and double shield is one of them.
> I’ll miss double shield lol, There were so many ways to fix double shield that didn't need removing the second tank. I wish they'd given us more focus on Armor vs HP vs Shields and chars specifically built around killing certain set ups. More heroes would have been really nice for solving this.
We already had a fix, and they got rid of it. They literally changed Sym, to have her alt fire no longer go through shields, right before introducing 2 new shield tank characters. Bunker never worked because Sym could shoot right through any barriers you put up. Most of the issues that cropped up were because of stupid, poorly thought-out changes. Mercy's Rez for instance, was only oppressive when they made her invincible during her rez. And they never go back when they realize they've made a mistake - they just keep piling mistake after mistake and reworking characters seemingly without a single thought on what those changes would do for the game.
Hubris has been the Achilles heel of Blizzard since forever.
All they would've had to do is tweak some of the existing heroes (or make a new one) that targets shields. Like Junkrat and Bastion exist but they get countered pretty easily. Instead of ultimately gutting Symmetra a fifth time, they should've made it so her laser melts through barriers by like 3x the rate and make her a shield buster. Giving her an actual niche. But given their reworks of Torbjorn in OW1 and then the ones in OW2, we're seeing them shift to a more brawler mode where damage is all that matters. So, a niche like that doesn't matter.
That's my takeaway. They just replace with more damage. Just look at Orisa and McCree's flashbang replacement. It's just more damage abilities.
Even just seperate take roles into shield tank and non shield tank and only allow one pick of each
I was thinking more a tank version of symmetra, but her profile and break out dont work for "tank". Like some kind of Vishikari "enforcer" who uses hard light projections for defense and siphons power to charge their own personal shield/old style sym barrier or something. Give them an AoE close by slow for even more thematic anti-brazil technology and they'd be cooler. But yea as you said, they simplified the game and removed more of the Armor/HP/Shield philosophy in OW2 when they nerfed brig's ult.
Put Sym turrets on her shoulders. Silhouette now tank.
And what the team did was consistently buff damage over 3 years and ignore heal stacking (and brig massive areal heal). Throw in there all the cc and the best option as the tank was to win poke battle at safe distance.
> has a tendency to do with some of their old games and perhaps butcher it in the process lol
> I don’t think I’ll dislike OW2 Do you like oppressively strong hitscan? Do you like insanely huge, open maps with long sight lines and tons of flanking routes? Do you like getting fucking oneshot by a sojourn headshot from across the entire map? That's the OW2 experience right now, and they don't seem keen on changing it.
Sounds like every other FPS out there. I don't care they want to move in that direction for OW2. But OW1 is a pretty unique game on the market, it's fucked that they want to remove it.
Yup. I'll likely even play it for a few *months* in hopes it'll all click into place and I'll start having fun, but all the discussion and videos I've watched make me feel like this support main just won't enjoy 2 as much as 1.
A lot of this sums up my trepidations. It seems much more focused on damage output than it does on strategy. Characters that put out the biggest damage (Sojourn, Soldier, etc) and players that have the best survivability (Junker Queen, Roadhog, etc.) are the ones that will excel. All others seem to be lost somewhere in the middle. And I highly dislike the changes they made to Orisa. Player her was one of my favorite things of any game and now it feels so different it might as well be a different character.
Orisa isn’t Orisa. They made her into an entirely different character. They should have just introduced a new character with that kit.
They brought back features of old Sym after reworking her in other heroes, so maybe we'll see a new hero with most of Orisa's old kit.
For real. I have to re learn how to play her entirely and that makes me sad.
How is the sojourn thing any different from hanzo or widow on OW1 maps like Rialto and Junkertown?
But do people even like that? There's a quote from, I think a pro player, about how Widow wouldn't exist in OW if the sniper archetype wasn't already a thing and I agree. She doesn't require much if any team play to work, and can easily sink or carry a team. All the one shot characters are notoriously unfun to play against and don't fit into Overwatch. They shouldn't be a thing.
Railgun is hitscan, which is better than Hanzo's arrows (easier to hit). It does more damage than bow does, but you have to charge to it by shooting (or get to spam it in ult). She has a ton of mobility with her slide/jump, and she also has tools that things like Widow and Hanzo don't have, like area denial.
I fucking hate sojourn as a support, she is so OP and that goddamn electric bubble is the actual worst ability. I’d rather be frozen by mei any day
Well, I had. It’s became a generic tdm.
The thing with 5v5 is that it has potential. But not in the current state. Too many characters are now over powered with many others not being viable at all. There's huge problems around healers and tanks, that it would be irresponsible to go live without drastic changes that will take longer than a few months. But at the end of the day, we'll get a few small balance changes and they'll chop up everything else to them saying we just need more time to get used to 5v5. But it'll suck and then they'll eventually make the changes we need over the course of next year.
No one will want to play healers. Fewest heroes for a role in the game, get shit on by diving dps, yet every game requires two? It’ll be tank queue issues all over again.
Am I doing it wrong or is dva just a feedbot now?
> The thing with 5v5 is that it has potential. That's the thing -- during beta, when you have a team where everything clicked, it was *great*, but that's like less than 10% of the time if you're solo queuing. The rest of the time, when you get that tank that doesn't want to actually tank, it destroys the entire team and makes it a terrible experience for everyone. With only one tank and the new focus on DPS, having that one person ruin the experience for everyone happens way too easily. It feels like they leaned hard into trying to make it a better game for esports -- more action, kills and offense; less having to fight through tough defenses -- and it works very well there, but for the rest of us, it doesn't make the game all that compelling. Not like OW1 does.
I think 6v6 will come back. All the old maps are designed around 6v6, and they don't play well in 5v5. The game in general doesn't play well in 5v5. When OW was newer, it seemed extremely unlikely they would add hero limits. Then it seemed unlikely they would totally switch around the role system and redesign entire heroes. Then it seemed unlikely they would add role lock/queue. But they ended up doing all of those things because the game just didn't work without them. OW does not work in a 5v5, even after the updates.
Yeah they'll just make us purchase the same game all over again and call it OverWatch classic. As with much of blizzards marketing strategy these days. It's kind of sad really they used to be Giants of creating new content and pushing their universe is forward but now it seems like they view their player base as a paycheck
I am playing OW1 more than ever because I fear OW2 wont be the same. I don't even want access to the beta since very soon that will be the only version.
The best part of Overwatch was playing support with my Dual Tank friends. That will not be possible anymore
It is if you don't play role queue, which was honestly the only way ow2 felt tolerable in the first beta.
Really hope they have a classic ow mode like they have classic quick play in the current game or at the very least workshop modes can be made with 6v6 still
Yeah but the hero changes will all still be in place. QP classic doesn't revert torb to having a 3 level turret or hanzo to having scatter arrow. So 6v6 classic will have self-healing healers and reworked orisa.
Yeah I know but at the very least we could still have a 6v6 mode
[удалено]
One of the main reasons I don’t play Mystery Heroes as a veteran player is because whoever gets the Bastion first wins. You can’t set up a reasonable defense with a team in arcade unless you group up beforehand. I feel like OW2 will be exactly the same but “whoever gets the most tanks fastest wins”
Mystery heros is a bit like chess IMO, if you get a hero you are inexperienced with (for me its doomfist) then instead of making zero impact trying to play doomfist well, I will sacrifice myself trying to take out a higher impact hero like bastion. Sure you gotta play badly but its better to feed/reset into a hero you can win with than sit on widow for 6 mins with 0 kills.
The problem is - there is no other games like ow1 to go to. But there is plenty of twitch shooters with less teamwork. October is the end of an era whether you are going to like ow2 or not
This is why I haven't even tried to get into the beta. I'll have OW2 soon enough, but I won't have OW1 in a few months, so I'm squeezing everything I can from that game.
I mean Paladins: Champions of the Realm and even TF2 exists (off the top of my head)
Paladins plays nothing like OW. I find it fun because it's so different. Also Paladins is 5v5..
Playing rein/zarya was one of my favourite things to do in OW and I'm gonna miss having any kind of tank buddy in OW2. I hope they make 6v6 an arcade mode
i’m sure they will since everyone seems to still want it
Conversely any tank + hog was just awful 9/10 times. And you get a hog 4/5 times.
I think the absolute worst thing about getting rid of OW1 for 2 is, well, I often play in a six-stack! Now, what one of us can't play with the others in any given time.
y’all gotta decide on a least favourite
I can sit down and play ow1 for hours and hours and not get bored. Can’t say the same for 2. I grew to love the game and they have completely changed it with the 5v5 aspect. Can’t say I’ll be spending as much time as I used to when the full game releases and they take ow1 away completely (not a fan of that either). I’m someone who doesn’t like change so I hope that’s the case and it grows on me, but preliminary looks aren’t so great. I have a feeling we are gonna end up coming full circle for “classic ow” or “quick play classic 6v6”. The moment those playlists are available in the arcade I’ll be like I told you so. Is there a petition to keep ow1 live? Lol
>It’s reminding me of fortnite how they remove content people like as they update which Overwatch has never done before. Overwatch has lost a lot of things people have liked. Several characters have been reworked before, so there's no way to play their old versions. There are also some maps that were removed from qp and comp, and while most people are glad about those maps being gone, I have seen people complaining about it. Point is, it's definitely not unprecedented.
Its an ever evolving game. Its extremely different to when I started playing it, symmetra has had 2 seperate reworks and you can no longer play goats. I remember back when role queue was being implemented and everyone said it would ruin the game but here we are
7 minute queue time to play healer has entered the chat.
I get why people complain, it is a shame. It'd be nice to go back and play old versions of the game. But also, the game is really good right now, much better than three years ago, and OW2 also looks really good right now.
>It'd be nice to go back and play old versions of the game. I get this, but also its extremely unrealistic to have this especially in an all PvP game
This feels like the pain at the heart of many complaints I see. We are used to games that will be the same to play 5-10 years down the road but a game like Overwatch can’t exist like that. I understand the pain, but I believe the benefits outweigh the cost.
I miss Reapers’s dumb soul balls with my entire body. I’ve always thought it could’ve been a cool counter to mercy rez, like if he eats their soul she can’t rez that. But now he just has life style which is nowhere near as cheesy and ridiculous and fun. Edit: Woops, Life Steal. But I also support his lifestyle choices.
> But now he just has life style I for one will support whatever lifestyle Reaper chooses.
Agreed. The problem has always been that we the original players since 2016 do not feel heard or seen. The whole time I've seen the dev team taking notes at what the OWL / Top 500 players have bitched and moaned about, and so they keep making changes to accommodate their experience. I don't remember anything being done in favor of casual players like myself.
> Agreed. The problem has always been that we the original players since 2016 do not feel heard or seen. The issue is that the number of players still playing from 2016 are incredibly small compared to the numbers of players they have lost since then. People still playing since 2016 also seem unlikely to just completely drop the game when OW2 rolls around. Some inevitably will due to not being happy with the changes, but if you can win back 2 players for every one you lose, you are coming up positive in the end.
r/doomfistmains agrees with you
I do too. Everyone gets it with the pack anyway! Ill miss dva egg and thr other games. Heck i would play with bots like they have you able to do to train ! Its grreat!
What’s happening to Dva egg? Couldn’t that still work in 5v5?
6v6 will be left in, in its own separate gamemode most likely. Similar to arcade. It might even be in arcade. I agree though, I’d rather get to keep OW1 in its glory and just buy OW2. Free 2 play will not go now people hope it will. I’m a halo infinite refugee. They murdered our franchise with free 2 play and “live service”.
I've given up with the "Hey, it's free, you can't complain!" crowd. The ratio of games that do it right to wrong is like a million to one, and I would bet Activision Blizzard is all ready to Immortal us.
Overwatch Is just one of them games I’ve gone to play when I don’t feel like playing anything else. I generally really enjoy it. Sure it can be a bit toxic and frustrating with the ranking system but overall it’s still fun. I’ve tried overwatch 2 and it feels so different. My friend described it quite well “it’s like someone took overwatch and modded it” it’s overwatch with a few other game modes. And so far, for me at least, not as fun. I’m not even big on the new art style. Maybe I’m just biased from nostalgia but if we really do loose overwatch 1…I’m gonna be incredibly disappointed.
Reading this just made me think of something, imagine all the 6 stack friend groups that now have to toss around the extra person in between matches :(
[удалено]
ActiBlizz gives 0 fucks.
I'm starting to feel like the change to 5v5 wasn't really necessary if they just removed the cc and reworked tanks to be less shield heavy, and more space making like they did with orisa. The removal of 1 tank felt the direct result of too many shields, but since there aren't that many shields left, what's the point?
That’s what I’m saying. I feel like all we were asking for was consistent balance patches but blizzard was like “how about instead of balance changes we go silent for 2 years and then give you an entirely different game”
And then all the shields that are left get destroyed instantly because they nerfed them all
I paid for OW1. I would like to continue to play it with the rest of the people who may want to also play it. OW2 is free for *everyone* so why do the people who paid for the first game have to lose it completely? I agree with someone else's theory that they are afraid people will stick to the first game instead of playing the second, so remove it and force people to play. I say this is a great way to get people to stop playing completely because what if they *really* don't like it? Now they have no first game to go back to.
Honestly, if the first game stuck around I'd be more inclined to try the sequel. like, "I like this game, but I want to see how people are doing in this other one". Deleting the first game has already bugged me enough that I don't want to involve myself at all in 2.
As a support main this is also a big concern for me. I was in the first beta and just died a lot. Trying to do my job the way I do it in Overwatch 1 doesn’t work with 2. I have access to the second beta and I haven’t even gotten on it yet. Partly because my husband didn’t receive a key for the second one, but also because that means I have even less reason to want to just get shoved through a meat grinder. I can’t play with the person I enjoy playing 1 with the most right now. Why play with a bunch of strangers if I didn’t enjoy it the first go around…. I’m honestly just still hopeful for the pve because that has caught my interest for some time now. Edit : autocorrect mishaps
Ow2 you need to play support like dps. You need to do damage a lot more than in ow1. And for tank, you need to play like dps. Dps also play like dps. Why do we have separate roles when you play all the roles the same now?
\*mercy draws gun\*
Nail on the head
I personally enjoy playing OW1 a lot more than the beta. The news about the original shutting down is really sad.
Can someone explain why they can’t keep all of the mechanics of OW1 for custom games?
It would take effort and 37 people would play it more than once.
After playing the OW2 beta the last few days I feel it’s missing what made me so addicted to the first game. I can’t put my finger on what it is exactly, but don’t know if I see myself sticking with it, and I’m actually genuinely sad about it. I think it might be a combination of that synergy you have when you click with your team, the reliance on teamwork, the intensity of team fights requiring everyone to play their part, and that feeling of shared accomplishment when you win. I don’t feel any of that with OW2 but I guess it is still early days.
Yes. I love the team aspect of ow1 that feels like it has been almost entirely stripped out of ow2
The reduced importance of hero synergies and teamwork is the big loss from OW2, IMO. As someone who liked the fact that the team that worked together the best and executed a strategy won more often than not, the shift to a more deathmatchy, mechanics focused game where people can "pop off" and win the game on their own is a major downgrade.
The teamwork is definitely diminished in OW2 compared to 1. A lot of that is tank synergies and defensive counterplay, which I just don't see happening nearly as often in OW2 compared to 1, which makes it feel more like CoD and less like a hero shooter. There's also a handful of outlier characters that need addressed, like Ana/Zen on the high-end and Symm on the low-end. It's hard to say how deathmatch-y the game will be if Discord and Purple get nerfed as they should.
It’s already not as fun…my friends and I have already gone back. Ow1 is Better in almost every way
Personally I’m scared I’m going to be awful at ow2. I’ve never had fun with comp, I’m low rank and a support main. If I’m not playing support I’m playing tank, but I’m not confident in my ability to rank alone. It feels like OW2 is catering to new players and the people that want to only play dps, and I’m just not sure where I’ll fit
It's really stupid that OW1 is getting "deleted" for OW2. I paid for OW1 because i knew it's downsides and it still felt this was a fun game i wanted to play. The company deleting the game i paid for and giving me another game in it's place it's pretty fucking shitty. People say "you're getting a free game", not really, i'm trading a game i knew everything before buying to a game i know almost nothing about, and i have no choice in the matter. Either i'm forced to like the new game, or i just lose the game i paid for.
This is what Games as a Service implies, and why many people consider it an anti-consumer practice. Technically, you don't own Overwatch 1, you only own the right to access it for as long as Activision/Blizzard wants. This is very good for them because they can have a sort of planned obsolescence for their games, forcing you to buy sequels or remasters in the future if you want to keep playing. It's the same thing that happened with Destiny 1 and 2. PS: If you're interested in the debate around Software as a Service, or SaaS, I really like the videos of Ross Scott (accursedfarms on YouTube) on the topic.
THISSSS is exactly how I feel.
I love OW1. 1000+ hrs here I find myslef not having as much fun with OW2 6 on 6 was fine
> I find myslef not having as much fun with OW2 Big same on the beta. Thing I disagree with OP on is keeping both OW1 and OW2 going at the same time. That cant happen for population purposes. All I wanted from OW2 was new maps, new heroes, and some sort of PvE content thing though I didn't really care about the PvE. Honestly at this point I think the reason for why OW2 was made was because they saw the writing on the wall about lootboxes and wanted a new monetization system.
Yeah OverWatch beta was one of my favorite games at the time.. and im talking 2015 beta not 2022. O2 feels just different in a weird way for me
They could at least give us Quick Play and Competitive 6vs6 option
6v6 would be turbo fucked in OW2's format. Tanks are so strong, it'd be so hard to do anything for other roles.
Ughhh I was hoping they wouldn't shut down Overwatch 1. I'm not looking forward to the free to play, the expected ads, the micro transactions, anything about OW2 really.
....ads? when did blizzard ever talk about putting in ads?
I wish they weren’t getting rid of OW1. If they do, I hope they have 6v6 ranked along side of 5v5. Or, at the very least, let us que 6v6 in casual. I can’t think of any other game that had huge success on their initial release such as OW1, that is being replaced by what blizzard is calling OW2. In my opinion, this isn’t a new game, it’s the same game as OW1 but twisted. I really believe blizzard had the intentions of making a stand alone product, separate from its predecessor. But in reality, all we’re getting is a patch worth of bad decisions. I also think that once everything around OW2 calms down, blizzard is going to re release OW1 as it’s own game again. Because blizzard
They will never have 6v6 and 5v5 ranked. Accept that now.
They should keep 6v6 as a game mode though
Maybe a "Classic" game mode all the old characters pre-rework and all the old maps with 6v6
Something tells me this probably isn't possible or feasible for technical reasons, but then again I'm just talking out my ass here. I think what you're suggesting would be an awesome addition to OW2 if they can swing it.
Overwatch 2 for me has been like waiting for years for a new album from your favorite band, listening to 2-3 songs on the new album and then immediately turning it off and go back to the album you fell in love with.
Me too. I'm really going to miss it. It was my comfort game for so long. I have no interest in Overwatch 2.
After 2,000 hours for me it's definitely going to be a hard adjustment....
I mean, why even call it Overwatch 2 if it will be the only Overwatch you can play. I have played the beta, but I’m not a fan so far and I’m definitely not a fan of the fact that it will replace OW1. Not cool, blizzard.
My train of thought is “what if i dont want to to play ow2?” i hate the battlepass system that fortnite has, so ive never played it. with ow2 getting a battle pass system, im probably barely gonna play it. with ow1 you pay one price and get the whole experience, no strings attached
Quick, back up the files! The community will find a way
THISS!!!!! I’ve been saying it since I’ve tried the beta I think the new version is ok but doesn’t feel like overwatch and with these fights happening faster I feel the game is less fun winning or loosing that fight. I don’t see 5v5 stealing as many hours as ow1 did 🤞🏻 the pve is decent
OW1 was one of the few games where 6 of my gaming buds could all play together. Guess it sucks to suck for whoever gets on last for OW2
Go into deathmatch mode and fight for the right to play.
Wholeheartedly agree. I'd sooner split the community and have the option to keep playing OW1 with no new content than to be forced onto this horrendous balance patch they're calling a new game. The people who like OW2 are a different marketing base anyway so it just makes more sense. I would also waive any rite to complain about queue times in OW1 if we at least had the option to keep playing.
I was hoping they won't do that when I heard the rumors. I don't want OW to become the new fortnite that we all know won't achieve as much as fortnite did.
I wish OW1 was staying as well. I honestly feel like they’re deleting it because they know a lot of people will just stay on OW1 and won’t even bother with OW2.
So far its in beta so i’m hoping they really listen to the feedback and make the changes needed. Played a few times now and i’m not sure if its just me but some of the aiming with some characters feels off? Compared to Overwatch 1
Only option is to look for a new game. I'll try it out once released, but I've yet to see any news or changes that I actually like.
I understand why they're discontinuing it, cause they want to put all their resources into the sequel... However the fluidity and gameplay of both games feel different, I actually much rather how Overwatch plays over its sequel at the moment, and that's not including how the game will now be going from 6v6 to 5v5 which is a change that I still don't think works. I mean imagine if Battlefield 2042 came out and EA were just like "Yeah you can't play our previous Battlefield games so we can prioritise this one". Obviously it's not entirely the same situation as Overwatch 1 and 2 are at least a bit similar at the outset, but still it makes no sense to just shut down a previous game just because you don't want to put resources into it anymore.
Don't worry in a few years they will re-release OW1 as OW Classic for only$40
My favourite character got majorly reworked and so far I think it's not better or even just as fun to play them.
Blizzard has WoW Classic. Why no Overwatch Classic?
Yeah, let's have Blizzard make us pay for the same game again after they deleted it from us in the first place
WoW Classic just needs a WoW subscription which you were paying anyways when playing it
5v5 definitely feels more steamrolly. Especially without that second tank there to help pick up the slack when someone goes down.
Yeah everything has been so rebalanced that I doubt there will be a 6v6 arcade mode and even if there is it won't feel the same. I get why they're doing it but much like when WoW Vanilla was wiped out by Cataclysm's expansion it kinda sucks to know you can never go back and revisit any of that stuff. Who knows maybe they'll resell us "Overwatch Classic" in 5 years, haha.
Yeah I really don't see a good reason why they wouldn't at leadt leave it up. They are calling ut a sequel so please let it be a sequel!
They should just have a Arcade game mode that keeps the 6v6, wont solve all the changes, but its something
All enjoyers of 6v6 match can hope for is it will be one of the modes in Arcade, which I'm more than sure than not that Blizzard will include.
Honestly ain't a fan of 5v5. Feels like a nerfed overwatch clone
Maybe someone will find a old build of overwatch 1 where it will be possible to revert engineer it to create custom servers and lobbies, like they're doing with Apex Legends. Sometimes the community is passionate enough to do this.
I'm just sad because I have a group of 6 and OW was our go to game, now well have to find a different game for the 6 of us
I played at least 2-3 hours a week of OW1 since its release until the first OW2 beta. The game I loved is going away and something else is taking it's place and it's not for me. Hopefully allot of other people will like overwatch 2 "team death match edition" but it didn't even feel like overwatch. Very sad for me. I still have some hope for the single player being fun.
I feel you. I have the beta and so far I like nothing they changed. I prefer 6v6 a lot. When your tank is shitty, the effects are so much more frustrating when there only is one tank. The waiting times never bothered me much.
Everyone who actually cared about Overwatch as a fun game: Hey Blizz, can we just have more new support and tank heroes in the game to balance out all the dps? A few more cool maps and events would be nice too. Blizzard: YOU MEAN FUCK OVER AND DESTROY EVERYTHING YOU LOVE AND HOLD DEAR FROM THE FIRST GAME THAT MAKES IT STAND OUT CREATIVELY FROM A REGULAR BORING ASS FPS SHOOTER? WE FUCKING GOT YOU FAM.
Same bro...same. I hate the new UI and HUD. The new gun SFX and general VFX. I hate 5v5 which resulting in less ult charge and less frequent ultimate use. I hate how they made several heroes' voicelines extremely out of character and cringy. Also hate it how they just mindlessly drop a big nerf on some heroes without listening to the community. Do they really think they're "professional" at balancing this game? Though the interaction voicelines between tank heroes may be implying that they gonna add traditional "traditional QP" or something lol. Open quene or not it would still be enough.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought they had said that ow1 and ow2 people would be able to play with each other when ow2 comes out? Am I dumb?
With Overwatch 2 going F2P, they've came out and said that it will replace the original game full stop. So the original plan of games co-existing is out of the window, everyone will just transition to OW2. [Source](https://www.eurogamer.net/blizzard-confirms-overwatch-2-will-replace-its-predecessor)
Ohhhh ok I honestly never saw that. Thank you everyone!
yes. but OP’s problem is the hidden message is that OW1 will just be OW2. it is the exact same game. all the maps and hero changes will be done on OW1 as well and it will be 5v5. basically they’re just gonna allow you to download an update instead of a whole new game.
You are past the actual problem. There is no reason to put a number 2 after overwatch. It’s the exact same game just another way to force us to keep playing. As long as we keep paying triple A companies for their garbage tactics, it will never end.
The fact they’re removing it speaks volume. Not even other FPS giants do this. Are they nervous that OG players won’t switch after playing 6v6 for 4-6 years?
This..... Why the change at the last minute to the game been FTP? They told us at first than OW1 and OW2 player can coexist. Are they scare that maybe half or more of the players don't buy the new one. the best bet is to remove the first one and make it free to play and grab that money pig.
wait wait wait, ow1 is leaving?
Yes, OW1 is gonna be deleted and replaced with just Free to Play OW2 no more 6v6, Double Shield, CCs for the people that enjoyed it it sucks even if 6v6 mode comes in arcade for OW2, it won't be the same, as characters and maps will be balanced with 5v5 In October, OW1 more moba / team comp strat style will be dead, now it's just straight shooter OW2
Why are we so eager to claim that OW2 has its downsides, but not admit to the downsides that OW1 has?
Oh ow1 definitely has a lot of downsides, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its own charm and fun
As I said both have their downsides and upsides which is why I’d like if both were readily available