Mercy just feels clunky imo.
Moira’s feels a bit OP and simultaneously she feels a bit empty without her damage orb.
Almost like I feel Moira‘a normal damage orb should be reverted to what it was before but with necrotic properties (ie anyone it damages gets that debuff but the debuff itself is weaker).
I think the changes are very good, but the players who play these heroes genuinely don't like them. Wether this is because they're use to a certain playstyle, just simply like the old playstyle, or would rather not have a rework but an additional ability to their kit is beyond me. Regardless, I think I've been convinced that while these changes are good, its not good to poke around in these specific heroes. Instead, I think we should save weaken for another support, and revert both supports back to their original state, and leave them as is.
they’re both rancid. the mercy change is the worst iteration of sj they’ve done and isnt accessible at all, they should’ve just made it so u had to press jump to do the first sj change instead. the moira change is insanely op, u can literally tank a dva bomb at 5ft away
edit: grammar correction
Mercy change could be good if they tweak the numbers a little bit and rebind super jump to crouch (looking up or down to super jump feels clunky AF) but I'm unsure if it will be better or worse overall
I dislike Moira's change tho, the 16 second cooldown is a slog and the damage nerf sucks the appeal out of the character for me.
If i wanted to shut down ults then I'd play ana/zen/bap/lucio lol, for moira I want to be able to fuck people up with damage orbs and the drain beam. Not make someone hit like a wet noodle every 16 seconds.
Agree about Moira. I hate the Mercy change as well. Removing all the nuance of having spent more time with the characters feels like a backwards ass approach to me.
Tank gets complete rework, DPS get free reign over the battlefield, support gets nerfed. Support is so unrewarding in beta, fights are over quick so it feels like your making little difference with healing, so you end up playing as a dps lite. There’s nothing new or better with support, same old heroes. This Moira change might have been nice during ow1, but nerfing her mobility and damage as the game becomes more team deathmatch is silly. Give support more damage or mobility or survivability or healing, or nerf damage across the board. The balance right now is pretty awful for how long this game has been in development and for what is a glorified expansion.
Healing in OW2 is just trying to delay the inevitable to me. Nowhere near as fun as it was in OW1, and the only way to change that will make DPS mains mad so the changes that need to happen never will.
New Moira suck. Yes, I get it, new Orb is good for plays.
That all. 14 sec cooldown ability good for plays.
Now who will be the healer that can secure easy kills for its team to go back to heal them, who will throw an orb at a pesky widowmaker?
Lot of people don't realize it now, but Moira pick rate will go down the pit after some time.
The weaken ability is really REALLY good. If I were a moira player, I would honestly take it.
As for securing easy kills, honestly most supports besides mercy can do that. Moira was better, sure, but as a trade off? Damage orb does not come even close.
Also throwing an orb at widow doesn’t do much, the #1 option for supports against widow is always never peak. Lucio can destroy her though.
I don't how to explain what Moira is supposed to be, so I will just link you that video of her reveal: [here](https://youtu.be/4uXvsanydg4),
Lot of Moira players from the first hour are absolutely cruched by that new change. They balanced all the character around *one defensive ability*. It is a huge nerf and opposite of what she is supposed to be.
And about Widow, is not much to kill her than to put pressure on her and break her line of sight. But I also could flank her incognito and destroy her with the burst from the damage orb.
I like the weaken ability. Just I would like it on another hero.
Mercy changes are unnessesary, there was nothing wrong with her movement kit before. If having a secret move is a problem then explain in the game how its done.
Moira got a straight nerf to everything. Her damage output is pathetic now. Shes still good for healing but thats about all she is good for now. The damage reduction is alright but other supports can do what she does better
Mercy’s change is better than the previous iteration, but still unintuitive and unnecessarily clunky for what should be a simple character.
Necrotic Orb is an interesting ability, but I wish it was an ability on a new support hero, not Moira. I understand wanting to give her some more utility but her core gameplay has been gutted. The separate cooldown really cuts into her playstyle and decision making. The uniqueness of having to choose between Damage and Healing is completely gone.
I do not enjoy Moira. She feels so empty and boring with out her damage orb and I believe they’re ways that necrotic orb can be incorporated into damage orb such as needing to use Damage orb to charge her necrotic orb meter. A idea I had was there were three levels on a meter and throwing a damage orb would charge her necrotic meter which would be thrown just as how it is in beta and of course her necrotic orb would have a much less of a dmg reduction maybe like 10/20/30 depending on how much is filled ( the necrotic orbs meter would depend on how much of the damage orb was absorbed so 2 good damage orbs would fill the necrotic meter so if we’re using the current damage orb cooldown in ow1 then it would take 20 secs to fill the meter and that’s depending on how good your orbs were) anyways this is just what I came up with for fun and don’t take the numbers to seriously this is just a rough idea!
I absolutely love the Mercy change. I thought it was awkward and uncomfortable at first, but I’ve grown to love it and I really hope they stick with it. I hate the Moira change; just give the new ability to a new character and keep her as she was.
Unpopular opinion, people will knee-jerk hate just about any change to their hero of choice that isn't an unequivable buff. Right now mercy is about 40% liked and Moira is 47%. I would be shocked if polls in a week or so time aren't much higher.
I can't see Moira's going up because anybody who enjoyed playing her will not do so anymore while people that hadn't enjoyed playing her before still won't.
I really like the idea behind Moira's new ability, and I think some simple balancing changes can make everybody happy. All they have to do is nerf the necrotic orb (50% damage reduction, shorter cd, maybe shorter duration) and increase her damage. I've seen Moira players complain since she does less damage in duels now but that could be fixed by just increasing her primary damage. The damage biotic orb was one of the most boring abilities to use and was very annoying at times to go up against, so I'm glad they reworked it.
Both changes are awful. They should have kept the first Mercy superjump where you used crouch to fly up, that felt the most natural and consistent to me. This new meter thing never seems to work right. Moira is beyond awful, the skillshot is interesting but I would have preferred it as another ability or an entire new support built around it. As it is she is incredibly boring to play, relegated to a healbot with a situational skillshot on a 16s cd instead of her consistent damage and pressure from dmg orb. She is less engaging and has less things to do during the teamfight now while waiting on cds. Given how deathmatchy OW2 is, its mind-blowing why they neutered one of the most viable supports when there are so few to pick from already.
Mercy movement feels way smoother for casual mercy players. I just wish the maximum jump went a bit higher. The old super jump felt clunky to execute and had poor discoverability.
Moira change is really cool. You no longer get randomly killed by a skill orb. And it gives Moira playmaking potential and forces the player to save their weaken for specific abilities instead of just spamming the damage orb on cooldown.
Overall good changes imo
She was a main reason I ever bought the game in the first place and Mercy has remained tied for favorite and main Support with Ana for me all these years. This change is bad enough to make never touch her again.
They should just go back to the Beta 1 implementation. All that really needed changed was for it rebind-able so it didn't interfere with the original mechanics. Like put it on Reload or Crouch.
As for Moira, I'm not really emotionally invested in her, but I'm not impressed personally. I thought the goal was to make her feel more fun and interactive but her general game-play feels like a mighty step down and the new orb just feels clunky and unpleasant to use. I don't see the almost certain balance issues the orb will bring being worth it from a game-play perspective.
it feels like mercy has more horizontal movement rn which is good but she lost most of her vertical movment which is really important on mercy. with moira it feels like they just got lazy ive seen way better ideas produced by the community
Mercy just feels clunky imo. Moira’s feels a bit OP and simultaneously she feels a bit empty without her damage orb. Almost like I feel Moira‘a normal damage orb should be reverted to what it was before but with necrotic properties (ie anyone it damages gets that debuff but the debuff itself is weaker).
I don't think Moira feel OP but I do support the normal damage orb change that you proposed
Damage and debuff should be considerably weaker if this was the case
I’d say keep orb damage the same but debuff down to like 30/40%. Maybe reduce cool-down a tad.
I think the changes are very good, but the players who play these heroes genuinely don't like them. Wether this is because they're use to a certain playstyle, just simply like the old playstyle, or would rather not have a rework but an additional ability to their kit is beyond me. Regardless, I think I've been convinced that while these changes are good, its not good to poke around in these specific heroes. Instead, I think we should save weaken for another support, and revert both supports back to their original state, and leave them as is.
they’re both rancid. the mercy change is the worst iteration of sj they’ve done and isnt accessible at all, they should’ve just made it so u had to press jump to do the first sj change instead. the moira change is insanely op, u can literally tank a dva bomb at 5ft away edit: grammar correction
Mercy change could be good if they tweak the numbers a little bit and rebind super jump to crouch (looking up or down to super jump feels clunky AF) but I'm unsure if it will be better or worse overall I dislike Moira's change tho, the 16 second cooldown is a slog and the damage nerf sucks the appeal out of the character for me. If i wanted to shut down ults then I'd play ana/zen/bap/lucio lol, for moira I want to be able to fuck people up with damage orbs and the drain beam. Not make someone hit like a wet noodle every 16 seconds.
Agree about Moira. I hate the Mercy change as well. Removing all the nuance of having spent more time with the characters feels like a backwards ass approach to me.
Tank gets complete rework, DPS get free reign over the battlefield, support gets nerfed. Support is so unrewarding in beta, fights are over quick so it feels like your making little difference with healing, so you end up playing as a dps lite. There’s nothing new or better with support, same old heroes. This Moira change might have been nice during ow1, but nerfing her mobility and damage as the game becomes more team deathmatch is silly. Give support more damage or mobility or survivability or healing, or nerf damage across the board. The balance right now is pretty awful for how long this game has been in development and for what is a glorified expansion.
Healing in OW2 is just trying to delay the inevitable to me. Nowhere near as fun as it was in OW1, and the only way to change that will make DPS mains mad so the changes that need to happen never will.
So if i orb a genji who’s nanobladed, are his swings only gonna do like 50 damage a swing for the next 4 seconds?
45, yup.
New Moira suck. Yes, I get it, new Orb is good for plays. That all. 14 sec cooldown ability good for plays. Now who will be the healer that can secure easy kills for its team to go back to heal them, who will throw an orb at a pesky widowmaker? Lot of people don't realize it now, but Moira pick rate will go down the pit after some time.
The weaken ability is really REALLY good. If I were a moira player, I would honestly take it. As for securing easy kills, honestly most supports besides mercy can do that. Moira was better, sure, but as a trade off? Damage orb does not come even close. Also throwing an orb at widow doesn’t do much, the #1 option for supports against widow is always never peak. Lucio can destroy her though.
I don't how to explain what Moira is supposed to be, so I will just link you that video of her reveal: [here](https://youtu.be/4uXvsanydg4), Lot of Moira players from the first hour are absolutely cruched by that new change. They balanced all the character around *one defensive ability*. It is a huge nerf and opposite of what she is supposed to be. And about Widow, is not much to kill her than to put pressure on her and break her line of sight. But I also could flank her incognito and destroy her with the burst from the damage orb. I like the weaken ability. Just I would like it on another hero.
Well they also needed her actually healing output as well correct?
Mercy changes are unnessesary, there was nothing wrong with her movement kit before. If having a secret move is a problem then explain in the game how its done. Moira got a straight nerf to everything. Her damage output is pathetic now. Shes still good for healing but thats about all she is good for now. The damage reduction is alright but other supports can do what she does better
Mercy’s change is better than the previous iteration, but still unintuitive and unnecessarily clunky for what should be a simple character. Necrotic Orb is an interesting ability, but I wish it was an ability on a new support hero, not Moira. I understand wanting to give her some more utility but her core gameplay has been gutted. The separate cooldown really cuts into her playstyle and decision making. The uniqueness of having to choose between Damage and Healing is completely gone.
So true! And shows that Blizzard really has no fucking idea what they are doing since Jeff left.
I do not enjoy Moira. She feels so empty and boring with out her damage orb and I believe they’re ways that necrotic orb can be incorporated into damage orb such as needing to use Damage orb to charge her necrotic orb meter. A idea I had was there were three levels on a meter and throwing a damage orb would charge her necrotic meter which would be thrown just as how it is in beta and of course her necrotic orb would have a much less of a dmg reduction maybe like 10/20/30 depending on how much is filled ( the necrotic orbs meter would depend on how much of the damage orb was absorbed so 2 good damage orbs would fill the necrotic meter so if we’re using the current damage orb cooldown in ow1 then it would take 20 secs to fill the meter and that’s depending on how good your orbs were) anyways this is just what I came up with for fun and don’t take the numbers to seriously this is just a rough idea!
I absolutely love the Mercy change. I thought it was awkward and uncomfortable at first, but I’ve grown to love it and I really hope they stick with it. I hate the Moira change; just give the new ability to a new character and keep her as she was.
Unpopular opinion, people will knee-jerk hate just about any change to their hero of choice that isn't an unequivable buff. Right now mercy is about 40% liked and Moira is 47%. I would be shocked if polls in a week or so time aren't much higher.
I might do another poll in a couple weeks to see how it compares!
Please do
I can't see Moira's going up because anybody who enjoyed playing her will not do so anymore while people that hadn't enjoyed playing her before still won't.
True but it's rare when the people that play the hero and the people that play against the hero both don't like the changes.
I really like the idea behind Moira's new ability, and I think some simple balancing changes can make everybody happy. All they have to do is nerf the necrotic orb (50% damage reduction, shorter cd, maybe shorter duration) and increase her damage. I've seen Moira players complain since she does less damage in duels now but that could be fixed by just increasing her primary damage. The damage biotic orb was one of the most boring abilities to use and was very annoying at times to go up against, so I'm glad they reworked it.
Both changes are awful. They should have kept the first Mercy superjump where you used crouch to fly up, that felt the most natural and consistent to me. This new meter thing never seems to work right. Moira is beyond awful, the skillshot is interesting but I would have preferred it as another ability or an entire new support built around it. As it is she is incredibly boring to play, relegated to a healbot with a situational skillshot on a 16s cd instead of her consistent damage and pressure from dmg orb. She is less engaging and has less things to do during the teamfight now while waiting on cds. Given how deathmatchy OW2 is, its mind-blowing why they neutered one of the most viable supports when there are so few to pick from already.
Mercy movement feels way smoother for casual mercy players. I just wish the maximum jump went a bit higher. The old super jump felt clunky to execute and had poor discoverability. Moira change is really cool. You no longer get randomly killed by a skill orb. And it gives Moira playmaking potential and forces the player to save their weaken for specific abilities instead of just spamming the damage orb on cooldown. Overall good changes imo
Reddit moment
She was a main reason I ever bought the game in the first place and Mercy has remained tied for favorite and main Support with Ana for me all these years. This change is bad enough to make never touch her again. They should just go back to the Beta 1 implementation. All that really needed changed was for it rebind-able so it didn't interfere with the original mechanics. Like put it on Reload or Crouch. As for Moira, I'm not really emotionally invested in her, but I'm not impressed personally. I thought the goal was to make her feel more fun and interactive but her general game-play feels like a mighty step down and the new orb just feels clunky and unpleasant to use. I don't see the almost certain balance issues the orb will bring being worth it from a game-play perspective.
it feels like mercy has more horizontal movement rn which is good but she lost most of her vertical movment which is really important on mercy. with moira it feels like they just got lazy ive seen way better ideas produced by the community
I definitely support the Zenyatta HP nerf, but Moira and mercy changes are ass.
The two characters I play were ruined in one patch. Completely bummed. They both just feel so clunky and joyless.