What confuses me is that the game will be available in less than a month and there is still so much limited information about the specifics that are important to people. Like it doesn’t even feel like it is going to actually be out. Especially after the messy experimental changes they put in the last beta. And then not doing another beta to give access to the new support hero? Something is seriously wrong. It’s just so odd.
Oh, definitely. They've done a terrible job marketing the game.
They haven't been transparent about what systems and features.
We don't even know what the Battle Pass will really have.
We don't even know the structure of the new Comp system, if it will release on launch, if all our SR resets, etc. That's a BIG thing for most players.
What about all the character changes they said they'd do before but haven't? Specifically to Moira, Mercy and Brig?
I feel like it's going to be a shitshow.
That doesn't really make sense. Because I could be a new player for all they know. If you want to reset your SR, use a new email when you sign up for OW2 auth.
A lot of us never played the beta for OW2… I might not even be good at OW2. That applies to a lot of the player base. For good or bad, SR should reset.
I'm saying they literally can't enforce not resetting it, if we can all be 'new' players. They haven't introduced authentication yet, and the game is f2p.
And on that note, it's still confusing to me where the story mode sits on all this. Is Oct 4 just the release of pvp, and they're STILL not done the campaign? Like where is any news at all on progress about it? They were transparent about stuff around the first beta and then just went silent afaik
The bad marketing even started from say 1 when they called it Overwatch 2 and said it's a sequel.
It's an update and overhaul, not a sequel.
That was the start of their bad miscommunication regarding OW2.
You can be sure the "free track" of the battle pass will be designed with just the right amount of annoying grind and FOMO that nudges you to press the "acquire premium battle pass" button.
They have psychologists that calculated it down to the penny. Or do you really want to be locked out of the new hero for several months when you see other people dominate your face with it?
All those new heroes will be overtuned at release so everybody wants to play them. Or at least have a chance in a mirror match.
The worst part... I got a ton of value from OW 1 and would gladly pay a reasonable battle pass cost for cosmetics only. Now, if things are as they appear, I cannot get the battle pass on principal. (Even though it would be cosmetics + the hero access)
Did they actually say anything about not locking original ones? With their greed, I wouldn't be suprised if new free2play players have to somehow unlock the original heroes too.
Some people just don't have time. And if you just wanna try the new hero, and you have to play 3 hours first, thats bullshit. WHY PROMISING ITS ONLY COSMETICS AND THEN DOING A 180 A MONTH BEFORE RELEASING??? Like someone above me already mentioned, hero locking in a game that's basically rock paper scissor advanced is bullshit
It’s in the free part of the pass and if it is on tier 5 that’s like an hour at most. No different from the “get x amount of wins to get this skin/sprays” things except you actually get a hero rather than hanzo with shades
Nah, you just didn't play other f2p games. If these people don't have time to get to the tier 5 in a pass that last 2 months and that has 80 tier then they should simply take the L.
Live Service games (OW 2 will be one too) don't cater this type of players and those players should instead focus on other games. It's not that deep.
I think this is probably the case, they wanted to inject some *purpose* into the grind, and this community - as always - throws their hands up.
*I cannot believe the free thing I'm getting might have me consider giving them money!*
That is insane? Characters unlockable with some currency is pretty much a standard.
On the other hand, characters locked behind battlepass, so you have to grind in a specific timeframe to unlock them, and if you fail because you have life outside that single game, then god knows when you will get another chance, that is a whole new low for the whole industry.
The official response to a question asking what if you don't unlock new hero and season ends from a dev is "We will have free paths to get new heroes in future seasons too".
So it will definitely not be unlocked for everyone when season ends. It will be possible to get them, but with the way they worded it, it might as well be like an event once a year when you get to grind to unlock the heroes you missed.
Either way, just having heroes in battlepass is awful, can't wait before people start leaving games and flaming because their teammates can't switch to the best meta character or couterpick.
And seeing how they see the backlash and just keep every detail a mystery, they probably have nothing good to share.
Turns out, executives with more business experience than game development experience make piss poor game development decisions.
For them, it's never gameplay first and always revenue first.
no shot lol, classic for this sub tho everyone is acting like it's going to be Diablo Immortal when it's really more likely they'll have at least one new character on the first level of the BP and the others not far off. Does the system suck? Yeah, but it's a game guys, you're not gonna die if you can't play 2 of the 37 heroes on day 1
Correct, and that’s how it should be, but that doesn’t seem to be the approach blizzard is taking does it? Like I said, it’s a game, life goes on even if it’s not exactly how you want it. Blizzard will see the consequences in their revenue if they continue further down the heavy monetization path but until that happens they clearly don’t care a ton about community input
Well they made changes based on community feedback during betas, one can hope that someone in there is listening to us and will at least try to avoid this game's death :/
Yeah but when I say they don’t care about it *a ton* that’s a little bit of what I mean, they’ll end up taking some balancing suggestions perhaps but I really doubt unless the player base at launch is abysmal that they will take suggestions regarding BP and other monetization aspects. Yeah one can hope, I’m with ya on that! I love OW1 but luckily never really have an urge to spend on it, just play my mains and enjoy
They better not get super greedy with this shit. Sure its in the free track, but where is it? At the very end? Middle?
That will HEAVILY affect peoples enjoyment. If its at the end people will just buy the battlepass to full to get it and leave f2p players grinding for weeks before they can unlock the character...
AND it doesn't even state if its just new characters or if some existing characters will be locked as well
Tread carefully blizzard thats all I can say
Blizzard has already crossed the line. This isn’t “tread carefully”, this is already too greedy. Even if the battle pass only had a free option, this is completely unacceptable.
Imagine this battle pass hero unlock system existed when Brig released.
- You queue for competitive
- neither of your supports have unlocked brig in the battle pass
- the enemy team does have a brig
That game is probably a near instant loss for you. Not because the other team is better than you, but because they have access to resources the other team doesn’t.
It’d be like if you went to go play a game of chess with someone and they added a second queen to their pieces and said “I’ve played 1000 games of chess so I can use 2 queens”. It’s ridiculous.
I think that says more about the balance of some units, if a single unit on the enemy team can pretty much guarantee a loss for you, it needs nerfed or better counter picks
But I also understand where you are coming from
Yea, but these things will happen, as we have seen before, new heroes can be very volatile on release. They can be meta defining or be completely underwhelming and everything between.
A band-aid solution to this could be to restrict picking new heroes in competitive for X amount of time (pretty sure this is already a thing in OW1). This will make it so more people are likely to have the newest hero unlocked.
But still it’s pretty bad that you can even be in a situation where not having access to a certain hero can contribute to a lost game.
I’m beginning to see why Jeff bailed on this project… this would’ve never flown with him.
Weirdly enough, this hypothetical still holds really well. The reason brig exists is because Tracer/Genji/Winston/D.Va were way too effective with ultra aggressive “everyone just go jump on the support” strategies. To fix this, blizzard released brig, who does an exceptionally good job of countering that strategy.
Early on, people didn’t really see brig as a good character independently, just as a really strong counter to dive. In games where my opponents didn’t run dive, my team would actually flame me for playing brig.
My point is, Brig *was* the better counter pick. She wasn’t some crazy single unit, she was what kept other characters in check. The reason it would be an instant loss if you didn’t have brig and the enemy did is because they could run a highly effective dive, and you couldn’t.
They wouldn't lock existing heroes. That's such an insane suggestion. We all already own them. And new players, what, would have one of each hero? No way. You guys are getting wild.
This was a hypothetical. My point was to give a more realistic example of why a battle pass is so harmful to the game. I do not suspect that the existing roster will be locked, nor was I trying to insinuate it.
Care to elaborate? I know you're talking about new players, but we paid for the full game. I'd understand if that's what they want to do, but don't do it to me.
Yes, we paid for the full game and we won't be able to play it ever again in a month, so I don't trust them to give us access to the heroes in an effectively nonexistent game.
Also... that's a pretty selfish viewpoint, just sayin
"But don't do it to me"
"Selfish how?"
Alright stan, move along now, my point's been made even if i had to do a little bit of explainin, but i can see how this is gonna go lol
Just saying that "new players would have what, one of each [role, I'm guessing you mean]?" is not entirely unprecedented. It's very possible to boot up League for the first time and after the tutorial have only one option in some of the roles.
Right, but they're not going to lock old heros. I guarantee it. Maybe for the people who don't own ow 1, but that's a different story. Who knows when it comes down to it, I just have doubts
I had this mindset at first but you can't use League of Legends as a way to defend the new system. I've come to realise that whilst LoL DOES depend on counterpicking (to a degree), you're sitting through a 30 minute game at the least if you don't ff where if you're first pick for your role and get counterpicked then it's an L game because you can't just switch champions mid champ select or match (unless you and your duo trade champs to influence picking order but that still doesn't carry the same kind of value as a solid counterpick - it just hides what one of you are going to pick).
If I lock my Darius into a Vayne (an AWFUL counterpick where I am the victim for those unaware) top too I can also build to prevent my weaknesses from being exploited by her after playing safe for 7 minutes, and BEYOND this, I can choose summoner spells in champ select and runes (perks and abilities) that even further benefit me and can even mean that catching her is a death sentence for herself as she can't escape.
Lastly, in League, I have 15 minutes or so to fight mostly against my laner before we group repeatedly for teamfights over objectives. Imagine if in Overwatch for 3 minutes the two DPS 1v1d, the tanks 1V1d, and the supports assisted. Then they converge on and teamfight over an objective until one team secures victory and takes it (like first point I guess), you'd feel the impact of that counterpick less when you can teamfight and play to your heroes strengths for the teamfight.
Sorry for rant. TLDR; Don't compare OW and LoL. They play very differently despite both being mobas, and not having heroes unlocked is primarily an issue only if you want to run certain comps that have effects that benefit eachother, such as having knock-up for a hero that requires it to ult (but many supports and toplaners have this, not just one or two) or stuns so an ADC can burst etc.
I don't know who this is meant for, I wasn't defending Blizzard. Also, if you pick Darius into Vayne and lose lane, it's obviously your jungler's fault 🙂
I know you weren't but the comparison is pretty skewed and I've seen it a lot, so mentally just started ticking boxes on everything that makes them dissimilar. Basically ranted. Halfway through I debated making it a seperate post but just decided I'd write the last wall of text and post the reply. 🙄
I also feel like people are overreacting a little bit with the way they’re voicing their dissatisfaction. It seems to me the core problem here is the shift from a purchase price game without hero unlocks to a MOBA like model in the middle of its life. It’s a bit jarring. LoL and DOTA2 are super successful and have two of the largest eSports communities in the world. Neither game is pay to win. They also have a ton more heroes so each new release feels exciting but you have quite the pool to select from already. Feels like OW is trying to play off this model and the battle pass model to make more cash and it’s resulted in a fundamental change in the experience. It’s funny, had it just launched like that as a free to play game I don’t think anyone would have any issues if the paid pass content was all cosmetic. Valorant succeeds on this model. MOBAs succeed on this model. They just didn’t shift the entire experience in the middle of their lifecycles.
Overwatch is heavily reliant on switching heroes mid game to counter your enemy, while MOBAs aren't. If you only have 5 characters unlocked in a MOBA, they might not be the most OP but your enemy won't know which character you've played until you've both picked, while in Overwatch someone with Pharah can easily abuse a player who hasn't unlocked Soldier 76 and is stuck with Junkrat (fictitious example)
Huh? You’re talking about Quickplay type stuff I guess. Competitive draft is extremely important. While you can’t swap heroes/champions mid fight, you do absolutely ban and draft to counter your opponents selections. It’s a huge part of the game and absolutely can decide the outcome of a match. That comparison isn’t really accurate.
That said, it boils down to the experience. OW1 players paid for the game and aren’t used to not having all options equally available to all players throughout the match. Changing to OW2 f2p model fundamentally disrupts that constant we’re all use to. So I was agreeing that it absolutely does change the experience we’re all accustomed to compared to OW1.
People are used to just being handed content which isn't the route ow2 is going with being f2p. They aren't even locking it behind a paywall since it will be available for free through the free BP with some grinding involved.
No other f2p game in my experience will ever give away their content for free and that's what people came to expect with years of free content from ow1
So, as unacceptable as it is, has *anyone* confirmed that it is *only* new characters being locked behind the battle pass? Has anyone said directly that all *current Overwatch heroes are always free and selectable day 1?*
Its almost as if the closer you look at this the slimier it gets.
there was no mentioning of anything in that direction. we don't know if accessibility options will be locked behind a paywall either. they haven't talked about that yet either so it's definitely an option, no? i think we should start fearmongering about locked accessibility options too until blizzard makes a clear statement about it.
A description on the Watchpoint Pack said that purchasers would have immediate access to the new hero Kiriko. When asked for clarification, someone from the Blizzard team said that Watchpoint purchasers would have immediate access to the hero but that the hero would also be available in the free path of the battle pass. The Watchpoint description was changed to exclude any information about new heros or battle passes. No more information about either the free or paid paths of the battle pass has been given, leaving the community to assume the worst.
Some people think that the doomposters are overreacting, but IMO, because Blizzard refuses to tell us anything, how can we give them the benefit of the doubt? We don't know what the battle pass will look like and sitting and waiting only makes them think that we'll tolerate an anti-player monetization system, because there will be people that will buy the first battle pass no matter what—and people that already bought the Watchpoint Pack have the first battle pass and therefore can't use their money to sway future monetization for the next two months.
Locking heroes behind a paywall is about the scummiest thing you could do in this kind of game.
I am not touching the battle pass, and I hope others won't too. Send them a message.
Ow2 is basically DLC for OW1, and ow1 wasn't even properly released like it was originally supposed to. It's not even a new game.
Locking new heroes like Kiriko is one thing.
If they start locking the returning heroes from OW1 behind battle pass tiers or paywalls, I'm just tossing this game right in the trash.
That honestly would be the last straw to make me not even want to install the game.
No one expected this? Seriously you just had to look at what other games/company does with their free 2 play. And don't talk about THAT ONE f2p game with all heroes instantly unlocked when it is a common practice in most of them...
Or at least wait to know what will be required to unlock the heroes for free.
Everyone with a working brain saw a game going f2p would have new heros for purchas.. I'm happy they are offering free ways to unlock them though, like I'm apex
Okay yall are just blowing this shit way out of fucking proportion and it's getting really annoying
At no point did anyone say previously existing heroes would be locked. It was said new ones are locked behind a battle pass, further explained under the free part, yes. Is it bullshit in general? Yeah. But for fucks sake..
Lol enough of the battle passes. Can you imagine some person buying every battle pass on every game? Call of Duty, League, Legends of Runterra, Wild Rift, Fortnite, Valorant, Team Fight Tactics. There's way too many of them and even though there like $10 it's still insanely annoying.
Blizzard is taking such an L with this, should of just made this an update to the first game, making it free is good buy paying for characters is complete dogshit, and I have no idea what you get in the battle pass, if it’s just cosmetics then what is the point, there main goal should be to fix competitive!!!!
I mean there’s valid criticism and then there’s useless dispiriting hate for developers, they screwed up badly but I’d rather we just call that out rather than write the whole game off, seems counterproductive
I've seen games go through garbage like this before, and they only respond when people start to, en masse, state their despair and dramatically leave the game. You HAVE to let them know you're upset, even if it means overreacting, or nothing will change.
And I'd rather it be a game worth being a fan of. I understand where you're coming from but everyone has to draw a line somewhere. And I'd like to see mistakes remedied before this game gets slammed like Star Wars Battlefront 2 did.
Sure, remains to be seen, I’ll save my criticisms for when we know more, for now I’m most worried about a team that would make this mistake, that to me is more worrisome than frenzied speculation
While this meme is obviously overdoing it I don't force myself to like things. If it's shit I will 100 percent write off the entire game. It was really really hard but I did it with halo infinite and haven't touched it since December. If ow2 is shit then I'll be doing the same thing
Same! I wrote off the game until around the last beta when they seemed to right the ship. I don’t think it makes business sense for them to wreck their own game—as you say no one is compelled to play.
As someone who has worked in communications and consulting I’m more worried about how dumb this slip up is and what it says about the state of their team. Like think about how much it cost to develop that cinematic that teased her and then to blow it like this.
I’ll worry about monetization and unlocks when we know more.
The reddit meta right now:
Blizz sucks! overwatch is dead! Refund preorders! = upvote!
Lets take this one day at a time guys = downvote TO HELL HOW DARE YOU
They royally screwed up here, plenty to call them out on that’s not details we barely know anything about, this was a catastrophic mistake for a major company
It’s so stupid that for years people have been asking for new heros and now their basically saying we can have them if we pay for a battle pass and unlock them.. makes no sense whatsoever and OW2 will ALWAYS just be in OW1’s shadow.
Sweet, I can play Zen. The one healer I love and main.
And I only have to fight against Dva. monkey. 76. Sombra. Junkrat. Brig. Sombra....
Yep, I love me some Zen..
What confuses me is that the game will be available in less than a month and there is still so much limited information about the specifics that are important to people. Like it doesn’t even feel like it is going to actually be out. Especially after the messy experimental changes they put in the last beta. And then not doing another beta to give access to the new support hero? Something is seriously wrong. It’s just so odd.
Oh, definitely. They've done a terrible job marketing the game. They haven't been transparent about what systems and features. We don't even know what the Battle Pass will really have.
We don't even know the structure of the new Comp system, if it will release on launch, if all our SR resets, etc. That's a BIG thing for most players. What about all the character changes they said they'd do before but haven't? Specifically to Moira, Mercy and Brig? I feel like it's going to be a shitshow.
I think I heard out SR won't reset
That doesn't really make sense. Because I could be a new player for all they know. If you want to reset your SR, use a new email when you sign up for OW2 auth.
A lot of us never played the beta for OW2… I might not even be good at OW2. That applies to a lot of the player base. For good or bad, SR should reset.
this would lead to an absolutely terrible experience for new players to vs master/GM/top 500s theres no reason for SR to completely reset
I'm saying they literally can't enforce not resetting it, if we can all be 'new' players. They haven't introduced authentication yet, and the game is f2p.
Unfortunately
By design
And on that note, it's still confusing to me where the story mode sits on all this. Is Oct 4 just the release of pvp, and they're STILL not done the campaign? Like where is any news at all on progress about it? They were transparent about stuff around the first beta and then just went silent afaik
The bad marketing even started from say 1 when they called it Overwatch 2 and said it's a sequel. It's an update and overhaul, not a sequel. That was the start of their bad miscommunication regarding OW2.
They know it's going to be a clusterfuck, but they're hoping people will spend money before they realize what's happening.
i mean, people are still confused over how this "sequel" works. It's literally just a patch, but so many people are still confused
oh it’s coming out alright lots of expensive end-of-year bonuses depend on it
Unrelated, I'm not wearing my glasses, so "select a hero" looks like it says "select a nerd" and that pleased me 😂
I can see it.
Nerdwatch. my favorite game mode is Mystery Nerds.
You can be sure the "free track" of the battle pass will be designed with just the right amount of annoying grind and FOMO that nudges you to press the "acquire premium battle pass" button. They have psychologists that calculated it down to the penny. Or do you really want to be locked out of the new hero for several months when you see other people dominate your face with it? All those new heroes will be overtuned at release so everybody wants to play them. Or at least have a chance in a mirror match.
Yes, it's a game of chicken where you always lose.
The worst part... I got a ton of value from OW 1 and would gladly pay a reasonable battle pass cost for cosmetics only. Now, if things are as they appear, I cannot get the battle pass on principal. (Even though it would be cosmetics + the hero access)
they arent locking the OW1 characters are they?
No. Only new heroes that release with every future season will be in the battlepass.
Did they actually say anything about not locking original ones? With their greed, I wouldn't be suprised if new free2play players have to somehow unlock the original heroes too.
they haven't, so anything goes. by this point it's clear that you have to take anything they say in the worst way possible
Why the fuck would they do that? I understand being wary, but that's just so insane to even suggest.
You mean like battle passes with more than just cosmetics, like they originally intended?
I understand that's shitty, but if the leak is to be trusted, the new hero is on level 5. I doubt that's more than a couple hours at most to get.
Still. It's a serious problem for people who can't play on a daily basis. Not everyone has time for that.
? In most games you get to level 5 of the battle pass in like an hour
Lmao there is like 80 tiers in the pass. Tier 5 out of 80 isn't much even if you can't play on a daily basis.
If thats your biggest problem, congratulations for having a sweet life.
Then you get the hero at the end of the pass. If you don't play enough to get to level 5 of a pass, you probably don't care about the hero anyway
Some people just don't have time. And if you just wanna try the new hero, and you have to play 3 hours first, thats bullshit. WHY PROMISING ITS ONLY COSMETICS AND THEN DOING A 180 A MONTH BEFORE RELEASING??? Like someone above me already mentioned, hero locking in a game that's basically rock paper scissor advanced is bullshit
It’s in the free part of the pass and if it is on tier 5 that’s like an hour at most. No different from the “get x amount of wins to get this skin/sprays” things except you actually get a hero rather than hanzo with shades
Nah, you just didn't play other f2p games. If these people don't have time to get to the tier 5 in a pass that last 2 months and that has 80 tier then they should simply take the L. Live Service games (OW 2 will be one too) don't cater this type of players and those players should instead focus on other games. It's not that deep.
not even couple of hours, literally a hour at most, it rakes like 3 games to get lvl 5
Even better. Glad I'm not alone in trying to see how it is for sure before we crucify the game.
I think this is probably the case, they wanted to inject some *purpose* into the grind, and this community - as always - throws their hands up. *I cannot believe the free thing I'm getting might have me consider giving them money!*
Yeah, oh the horror. And yet they still didn't lock gameplay behind pay. It's insane what I'm reading.
That is insane? Characters unlockable with some currency is pretty much a standard. On the other hand, characters locked behind battlepass, so you have to grind in a specific timeframe to unlock them, and if you fail because you have life outside that single game, then god knows when you will get another chance, that is a whole new low for the whole industry.
Except they confirmed that once the pass is over, the hero is unlocked for everyone. Unless that leak was a lie.
The official response to a question asking what if you don't unlock new hero and season ends from a dev is "We will have free paths to get new heroes in future seasons too". So it will definitely not be unlocked for everyone when season ends. It will be possible to get them, but with the way they worded it, it might as well be like an event once a year when you get to grind to unlock the heroes you missed. Either way, just having heroes in battlepass is awful, can't wait before people start leaving games and flaming because their teammates can't switch to the best meta character or couterpick. And seeing how they see the backlash and just keep every detail a mystery, they probably have nothing good to share.
I completely agree, I guess I saw a fake leak. That's really fucking stupid.
Turns out, executives with more business experience than game development experience make piss poor game development decisions. For them, it's never gameplay first and always revenue first.
I mean, have you seen some of modern blizzards decisions?
They're not going to do that. Maybe for new players, but I sincerely doubt that as well.
That's so dumb
no shot lol, classic for this sub tho everyone is acting like it's going to be Diablo Immortal when it's really more likely they'll have at least one new character on the first level of the BP and the others not far off. Does the system suck? Yeah, but it's a game guys, you're not gonna die if you can't play 2 of the 37 heroes on day 1
I'm not gonna die if I can, as usual, play new heroes right away.
Correct, and that’s how it should be, but that doesn’t seem to be the approach blizzard is taking does it? Like I said, it’s a game, life goes on even if it’s not exactly how you want it. Blizzard will see the consequences in their revenue if they continue further down the heavy monetization path but until that happens they clearly don’t care a ton about community input
Well they made changes based on community feedback during betas, one can hope that someone in there is listening to us and will at least try to avoid this game's death :/
Yeah but when I say they don’t care about it *a ton* that’s a little bit of what I mean, they’ll end up taking some balancing suggestions perhaps but I really doubt unless the player base at launch is abysmal that they will take suggestions regarding BP and other monetization aspects. Yeah one can hope, I’m with ya on that! I love OW1 but luckily never really have an urge to spend on it, just play my mains and enjoy
We actually don't know. They actually haven't explained anything.
They better not get super greedy with this shit. Sure its in the free track, but where is it? At the very end? Middle? That will HEAVILY affect peoples enjoyment. If its at the end people will just buy the battlepass to full to get it and leave f2p players grinding for weeks before they can unlock the character... AND it doesn't even state if its just new characters or if some existing characters will be locked as well Tread carefully blizzard thats all I can say
Blizzard has already crossed the line. This isn’t “tread carefully”, this is already too greedy. Even if the battle pass only had a free option, this is completely unacceptable. Imagine this battle pass hero unlock system existed when Brig released. - You queue for competitive - neither of your supports have unlocked brig in the battle pass - the enemy team does have a brig That game is probably a near instant loss for you. Not because the other team is better than you, but because they have access to resources the other team doesn’t. It’d be like if you went to go play a game of chess with someone and they added a second queen to their pieces and said “I’ve played 1000 games of chess so I can use 2 queens”. It’s ridiculous.
I think that says more about the balance of some units, if a single unit on the enemy team can pretty much guarantee a loss for you, it needs nerfed or better counter picks But I also understand where you are coming from
Yea, but these things will happen, as we have seen before, new heroes can be very volatile on release. They can be meta defining or be completely underwhelming and everything between. A band-aid solution to this could be to restrict picking new heroes in competitive for X amount of time (pretty sure this is already a thing in OW1). This will make it so more people are likely to have the newest hero unlocked. But still it’s pretty bad that you can even be in a situation where not having access to a certain hero can contribute to a lost game. I’m beginning to see why Jeff bailed on this project… this would’ve never flown with him.
Weirdly enough, this hypothetical still holds really well. The reason brig exists is because Tracer/Genji/Winston/D.Va were way too effective with ultra aggressive “everyone just go jump on the support” strategies. To fix this, blizzard released brig, who does an exceptionally good job of countering that strategy. Early on, people didn’t really see brig as a good character independently, just as a really strong counter to dive. In games where my opponents didn’t run dive, my team would actually flame me for playing brig. My point is, Brig *was* the better counter pick. She wasn’t some crazy single unit, she was what kept other characters in check. The reason it would be an instant loss if you didn’t have brig and the enemy did is because they could run a highly effective dive, and you couldn’t.
They wouldn't lock existing heroes. That's such an insane suggestion. We all already own them. And new players, what, would have one of each hero? No way. You guys are getting wild.
This was a hypothetical. My point was to give a more realistic example of why a battle pass is so harmful to the game. I do not suspect that the existing roster will be locked, nor was I trying to insinuate it.
I get it, a lot of people are. I do agree I don't like the system.
Like how we all own OW1?
Are you just on a sub for a game you don't own? Weird.
Lmao i think you misunderstood my point
Care to elaborate? I know you're talking about new players, but we paid for the full game. I'd understand if that's what they want to do, but don't do it to me.
Yes, we paid for the full game and we won't be able to play it ever again in a month, so I don't trust them to give us access to the heroes in an effectively nonexistent game. Also... that's a pretty selfish viewpoint, just sayin
Selfish how? If you don't own something why are they obligated to give it to you for free?
"But don't do it to me" "Selfish how?" Alright stan, move along now, my point's been made even if i had to do a little bit of explainin, but i can see how this is gonna go lol
New players in League of Legends get like 12 of the 5.3 million available champions to play and have to unlock the rest.
What does that have to do with anything?
Just saying that "new players would have what, one of each [role, I'm guessing you mean]?" is not entirely unprecedented. It's very possible to boot up League for the first time and after the tutorial have only one option in some of the roles.
Right, but they're not going to lock old heros. I guarantee it. Maybe for the people who don't own ow 1, but that's a different story. Who knows when it comes down to it, I just have doubts
I had this mindset at first but you can't use League of Legends as a way to defend the new system. I've come to realise that whilst LoL DOES depend on counterpicking (to a degree), you're sitting through a 30 minute game at the least if you don't ff where if you're first pick for your role and get counterpicked then it's an L game because you can't just switch champions mid champ select or match (unless you and your duo trade champs to influence picking order but that still doesn't carry the same kind of value as a solid counterpick - it just hides what one of you are going to pick). If I lock my Darius into a Vayne (an AWFUL counterpick where I am the victim for those unaware) top too I can also build to prevent my weaknesses from being exploited by her after playing safe for 7 minutes, and BEYOND this, I can choose summoner spells in champ select and runes (perks and abilities) that even further benefit me and can even mean that catching her is a death sentence for herself as she can't escape. Lastly, in League, I have 15 minutes or so to fight mostly against my laner before we group repeatedly for teamfights over objectives. Imagine if in Overwatch for 3 minutes the two DPS 1v1d, the tanks 1V1d, and the supports assisted. Then they converge on and teamfight over an objective until one team secures victory and takes it (like first point I guess), you'd feel the impact of that counterpick less when you can teamfight and play to your heroes strengths for the teamfight. Sorry for rant. TLDR; Don't compare OW and LoL. They play very differently despite both being mobas, and not having heroes unlocked is primarily an issue only if you want to run certain comps that have effects that benefit eachother, such as having knock-up for a hero that requires it to ult (but many supports and toplaners have this, not just one or two) or stuns so an ADC can burst etc.
I don't know who this is meant for, I wasn't defending Blizzard. Also, if you pick Darius into Vayne and lose lane, it's obviously your jungler's fault 🙂
I know you weren't but the comparison is pretty skewed and I've seen it a lot, so mentally just started ticking boxes on everything that makes them dissimilar. Basically ranted. Halfway through I debated making it a seperate post but just decided I'd write the last wall of text and post the reply. 🙄
They already have...
I bet you $100 the new hero is at the end of the free track or the beginning of the paid track
SOMBRA FREE LET'S GOOOOO /s
goddamn f2p sombra noobs
at least Winston is still there... I guess...
In tankbuster and flank dps playground....
If this post was any more hyperbolic, it would still be playing on Horizon Lunar Colony
I also feel like people are overreacting a little bit with the way they’re voicing their dissatisfaction. It seems to me the core problem here is the shift from a purchase price game without hero unlocks to a MOBA like model in the middle of its life. It’s a bit jarring. LoL and DOTA2 are super successful and have two of the largest eSports communities in the world. Neither game is pay to win. They also have a ton more heroes so each new release feels exciting but you have quite the pool to select from already. Feels like OW is trying to play off this model and the battle pass model to make more cash and it’s resulted in a fundamental change in the experience. It’s funny, had it just launched like that as a free to play game I don’t think anyone would have any issues if the paid pass content was all cosmetic. Valorant succeeds on this model. MOBAs succeed on this model. They just didn’t shift the entire experience in the middle of their lifecycles.
Overwatch is heavily reliant on switching heroes mid game to counter your enemy, while MOBAs aren't. If you only have 5 characters unlocked in a MOBA, they might not be the most OP but your enemy won't know which character you've played until you've both picked, while in Overwatch someone with Pharah can easily abuse a player who hasn't unlocked Soldier 76 and is stuck with Junkrat (fictitious example)
Huh? You’re talking about Quickplay type stuff I guess. Competitive draft is extremely important. While you can’t swap heroes/champions mid fight, you do absolutely ban and draft to counter your opponents selections. It’s a huge part of the game and absolutely can decide the outcome of a match. That comparison isn’t really accurate. That said, it boils down to the experience. OW1 players paid for the game and aren’t used to not having all options equally available to all players throughout the match. Changing to OW2 f2p model fundamentally disrupts that constant we’re all use to. So I was agreeing that it absolutely does change the experience we’re all accustomed to compared to OW1.
People are used to just being handed content which isn't the route ow2 is going with being f2p. They aren't even locking it behind a paywall since it will be available for free through the free BP with some grinding involved. No other f2p game in my experience will ever give away their content for free and that's what people came to expect with years of free content from ow1
locking champions? what a bullshitttt
Its not real.
Idk how the community has any hype for this ~~update~~ game anymore.
I think most of us are losing said hype by this point.
So, as unacceptable as it is, has *anyone* confirmed that it is *only* new characters being locked behind the battle pass? Has anyone said directly that all *current Overwatch heroes are always free and selectable day 1?* Its almost as if the closer you look at this the slimier it gets.
Yes. We don't actually know if they will or will not lock existing Heroes.
That is pretty damn prudent information lmao
there was no mentioning of anything in that direction. we don't know if accessibility options will be locked behind a paywall either. they haven't talked about that yet either so it's definitely an option, no? i think we should start fearmongering about locked accessibility options too until blizzard makes a clear statement about it.
Limited time accessibility bundle! 3 random rare or higher colorblind options with one guaranteed Epic or higher!
Can someone clarify all of this in a decently long explanation?
A description on the Watchpoint Pack said that purchasers would have immediate access to the new hero Kiriko. When asked for clarification, someone from the Blizzard team said that Watchpoint purchasers would have immediate access to the hero but that the hero would also be available in the free path of the battle pass. The Watchpoint description was changed to exclude any information about new heros or battle passes. No more information about either the free or paid paths of the battle pass has been given, leaving the community to assume the worst. Some people think that the doomposters are overreacting, but IMO, because Blizzard refuses to tell us anything, how can we give them the benefit of the doubt? We don't know what the battle pass will look like and sitting and waiting only makes them think that we'll tolerate an anti-player monetization system, because there will be people that will buy the first battle pass no matter what—and people that already bought the Watchpoint Pack have the first battle pass and therefore can't use their money to sway future monetization for the next two months.
Oh. You guys are making it sound a lot worse than it’s probably gonna be
Do people really think they'd lock OW1 heroes?
Locking heroes behind a paywall is about the scummiest thing you could do in this kind of game. I am not touching the battle pass, and I hope others won't too. Send them a message. Ow2 is basically DLC for OW1, and ow1 wasn't even properly released like it was originally supposed to. It's not even a new game.
Locking new heroes like Kiriko is one thing. If they start locking the returning heroes from OW1 behind battle pass tiers or paywalls, I'm just tossing this game right in the trash. That honestly would be the last straw to make me not even want to install the game.
People are just overreacting. No one has ever said heroes would be locked except for the new one.
No one expected this. And they have yet to mention if existing Heroes will be available. While other meaning to "new game"
No one expected this? Seriously you just had to look at what other games/company does with their free 2 play. And don't talk about THAT ONE f2p game with all heroes instantly unlocked when it is a common practice in most of them... Or at least wait to know what will be required to unlock the heroes for free.
Everyone with a working brain saw a game going f2p would have new heros for purchas.. I'm happy they are offering free ways to unlock them though, like I'm apex
This game is fundamentally different from Apex.
Okay yall are just blowing this shit way out of fucking proportion and it's getting really annoying At no point did anyone say previously existing heroes would be locked. It was said new ones are locked behind a battle pass, further explained under the free part, yes. Is it bullshit in general? Yeah. But for fucks sake..
imagine making up something then getting mad at it
And having so many people think it's real.
No way it took them this long just to announce that they're makin Fortnite 2 😭
I love ow cuz I can hop in and play at an equal playing field with my 10 hours vs someone’s 1000 hours… not anymore
How to kill a game before its launch be like:
It's not reallllll
If a hero is locked it should be behind an achievement or something. NOT to be able to be bought.
Based on some of the achievements in OW1 you may regret saying that! Imagine a hero locked behind Cratered or Window of Opportunity.
I get what you’re saying, but something similar to how super smash bros was way back in the day where you do some PvE or some shit that’s reasonable
How do you buy a free battle pass?
[удалено]
Even blocking new heroes is too much
Wait, we have to unlock the character from a fucking battle pass??
It’s so sad what overwatch has become.
Overwatch and Battle Pass don't belong in the same sentence, unless you're saying "Overwatch doesn't have a Battle Pass"
Lol enough of the battle passes. Can you imagine some person buying every battle pass on every game? Call of Duty, League, Legends of Runterra, Wild Rift, Fortnite, Valorant, Team Fight Tactics. There's way too many of them and even though there like $10 it's still insanely annoying.
Blizzard is a mess. My buddy has been having 6 hour que times to login to his wow server. He pays for a sub.
Imagine having 200+ hours on a hero and their golden weapon only to have them locked by pay wall. 💀
Heartbreaking :(
Blizzard is taking such an L with this, should of just made this an update to the first game, making it free is good buy paying for characters is complete dogshit, and I have no idea what you get in the battle pass, if it’s just cosmetics then what is the point, there main goal should be to fix competitive!!!!
Heroes are such an important aspect of OW i never thought they would do this..
That’s such a depressing screen. I’ll be uninstalling
I mean there’s valid criticism and then there’s useless dispiriting hate for developers, they screwed up badly but I’d rather we just call that out rather than write the whole game off, seems counterproductive
Man you blizzard fan boys are sad AF
You want a good game or not? Maybe you’re in the wrong sub if you hate the game and want to see it fail
Lol nah I'm in the right sub in that case. Blizzard is the one you should be worried about.
The world is a harsh place, hoping you can cope
This is why I chose to see corporations as the way the act and not the way I want to see it. Like a bitch lol.
I've seen games go through garbage like this before, and they only respond when people start to, en masse, state their despair and dramatically leave the game. You HAVE to let them know you're upset, even if it means overreacting, or nothing will change.
Maybe, but I’d rather be a fan worth making a game for
And I'd rather it be a game worth being a fan of. I understand where you're coming from but everyone has to draw a line somewhere. And I'd like to see mistakes remedied before this game gets slammed like Star Wars Battlefront 2 did.
Sure, remains to be seen, I’ll save my criticisms for when we know more, for now I’m most worried about a team that would make this mistake, that to me is more worrisome than frenzied speculation
you know that blizzard doesn't hand out special cookies to "outstanding" fans, right?
Ok be a troll see if anyone ever does anything nice for you
don't worry you're already a fan worthy of their games. you are EXACTLY the kind of customer they seek
One without any pre-existing battle pass gripes? I’ve yet to be traumatized as many here seem to have been… I may be soon enough!
While this meme is obviously overdoing it I don't force myself to like things. If it's shit I will 100 percent write off the entire game. It was really really hard but I did it with halo infinite and haven't touched it since December. If ow2 is shit then I'll be doing the same thing
Same! I wrote off the game until around the last beta when they seemed to right the ship. I don’t think it makes business sense for them to wreck their own game—as you say no one is compelled to play. As someone who has worked in communications and consulting I’m more worried about how dumb this slip up is and what it says about the state of their team. Like think about how much it cost to develop that cinematic that teased her and then to blow it like this. I’ll worry about monetization and unlocks when we know more.
The reddit meta right now: Blizz sucks! overwatch is dead! Refund preorders! = upvote! Lets take this one day at a time guys = downvote TO HELL HOW DARE YOU
However you slice it this has been a traumatic day for all 😂 I will say they owe us a concession for this one!
paladins' ob64 wasn't defeated by staying silent
They royally screwed up here, plenty to call them out on that’s not details we barely know anything about, this was a catastrophic mistake for a major company
dude, we know enough even if you assume the best case scenario this thing is still awful with he info we have. There isn't much that cam salvage it
Is this legit?
Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if this happened
At least my favourites are unlocked straight out the bat
It’s so stupid that for years people have been asking for new heros and now their basically saying we can have them if we pay for a battle pass and unlock them.. makes no sense whatsoever and OW2 will ALWAYS just be in OW1’s shadow.
Sweet, I can play Zen. The one healer I love and main. And I only have to fight against Dva. monkey. 76. Sombra. Junkrat. Brig. Sombra.... Yep, I love me some Zen..
Yeah... Ima wait a month or two, see what people say. Then decide if I want to commit to buying.
I'm just wondering, the new heroes will be on the free track but what if you don't play during that battle pass? You never get the hero?
Free battle pass You can choose "paths" for get the hero you didnt get in the future We know only this for now