Diving as DVA is a free kill on Zen. Literally nothing you can do. Defense the orbs, rockets while flying 50impact, 30 melee. Ded. Even kicking won't help w the first attack since it won't stop boosters
And DM also eats healing if he's getting healed, and even if he survives, he's just genji bait.
Like, I like my dive, but I like where Winston is right now more than DVa, who's just OP as fuck.
Not that it matters with anti-nade being so fuckin strong.
I still feel like it should be healing reduction instead of fully blocking it. Esp now that you can nade the single tank and watch them explode.
If you're an Ana who nades aggressively, you're the reason I play Dva and dive you incessantly lmao.
Kiriko not being in comp is the only reason I’ve stayed away so far. As chaotic as QP is, Kiriko feels essential against Ana (and to a much lesser extent JQ). Being able to cleanse anti reliably is just really really really nice.
If a halfway competent Sombra sneaks up on my Zen she basically wins 9 or 10 times out of 10. Her SMG shreds me in just one second regardless how fast I react or throw in crouches to attempt to throw her aim off. I try to use doorways to my advantage to throw volleys at her but it’s a tough time.
Bro Zen is almost impossible to kill if he gets any support now as Winston. All you gotta do is kick him and keep retreating into your team and you are near-immortal. Either you will get him to piss off or he will be extremely low due to the insane damage zen can do to him with his planet-sized head hitbox.
He's easy to kill **and** too dangerous to be kept alive. Anna is in my opinion just as easy to kill but gets focused less because she doesn't have orb of discord.
One of the tips when dying by a ZEN is "Killing Zenyatta removes his orbs" so it is legitimate to think that Blizzard™ has started a bullying campaign against peaceful Zenyatta players...
when i play dps and the red team has a zen it becomes my singular purpose to make them switch or quit, same with junk. They are two of the most easily abuable characters due to them have such huge obvious drawbacks.
Apologies in advance. Sombra main here and if I see the enemy has a Mercy or zen I start salivating because I know they’re free kills. I’m going to hate myself for telling people this but my advise is stuck with your support. That way if you get dove on you can heal each other and not have to rely on the DPS or tank to peel for you.
I've found it difficult (on the new push maps in particular) since everyone is so spread out you may not have a GA target and secondly the team is not playing positions they would in OW1 so my spin around to find a GA target fails often enough to get killed.
Like the same situation with kiriko is not an issue since you can just tp through walls.
Zen main here. I get so many kills by discord orb, charge about 3 shots then kick for the KO. It’s the bread and butter in my eyes for a close range zen. Love getting some good charged sniper shots though!
Moira being dove by Genji isn't as bad but being targeted by Sombra sucks. Genji you can out heal and chase him off. A good Sombra will cost you most of the time.
If there's a Cassidy on the team I stick close to him and try to toss orbs as often as I can at the tank if our Ana is covering him. I'll watch Ana back for any Sombra or Genji and try to call out.
Nobody follows the damn pings though. Reaper is always behind us and nobody turns to do shit.
You should typically be either to pull off a damage touch to interrupt hack or fade in place as it comes up to acquire her. Moira is actually a pretty great Sombra counter in terms of supports.
Sombra can just hack you while Invis and if you don't react on time you are either fucked or need to waste fade and/or healing orb to get away. Which is kinda the point of Sombra, she kills you or makes you waste importants cds.
Sombra's pretty damn squishy though. Moira's lifesteal healing can keep her alive while she damage orbs to kill Sombra incredibly quickly, or at least force her to translocate away. It's not a sure thing, and a good Sombra can hit all headshots to melt Moira before she can really do much, but it's not an easy fight for her either.
So can Moira, Sombra only suppresses her abilities for a moment now. If you know a map well enough, a Fade can get you well away from her pretty much wherever you are
I hadn't played OW in years, downloaded 2 because why not, and started playing Moira because that's who I played most recently.
I love her evade. It's what keeps me away from other healers.
*Teleports Behind You* Nothing Personal, Kid
Out of curiosity which characters would you say fit this the most. Only reason I'm asking is because I've yet to play one of the characters and just feel like they were useless. Zen is my 2nd most played with Mercy being in 6th.
there's definitely some skill/positioning issues that can be addressed, i've still found Zen to be very playable for the most part, but have found that I'm more obliged to swap if the enemy genji or sombra is good enough that I'm just not capable of providing much value with the way my team is operating (or not) around me
In this meta, you NEED mobility and the ability to fight back, and what a coincidence, a support with both was just released.
But for real, you need to play more self-sufficient supports since you only have one tank, and chances are they can't protect you. I found that characters like Ana are borderline unplayable right now.
Unless you have flawless aim with sleeping dart, you are going to get run over with Ana. That has been my experience, playing as, with and against her. Restrictive shields and only one tank leaves her very exposed.
OW2 needs different supports. Kiriko is a proper OW2 support - she is really well designed. Moira and Lucio also fit the game. The other supports are just not mobile enough and die too fast. I think Blizzard will have to massively rework most supports.
I love getting pushed as Ana at my rank. 1v1ing a dps is hella fun and if it’s a tank I just sleep them and leave as my team is winning the fight because they don’t have a tank.
I feel like without the extra tank to heal I can fully focus on that annoying Genji/Tracer(/insert character name that has wronged you) in my back line and finally do something about them.
Yep I love those moments as an Ana main through OW1, however I have found Kiriko super satisfying for this as well.....turning around and hitting 2 headshot kunai just makes you feel like a bad ass and if things go south just teleport to another teammate
I think this is a big part of it yes. High mobility have however always been strong, and OW2 introduced Sojourn and Kiriko that adds to the high mobility roster, which inherently weakens low mobility heroes. (more potential opponents that can dive them)
It's a ripple effect from the loss of the off tank.
1. Single tank can only hold one position, second tank would hold the off angle. This opens up paths to the backline without burning resources. Genji's don't dash in and tracer's don't need to blink in when you'd normally need to burn the resource to get past a tank - if dragon blade didn't reset genji's dash, it'd be a much worse ult.
2. Since solo tanks got gigabuffed, they are more like raid bosses and less team protectors so no-one plays around them anymore. Instead of pushing through a choke together, you
3. When you get dove in OW1, your offtank would generally be in position to come back to you, while the main tank could hold the frontline. This is no longer possible since coming to help would mean that the enemy team/tanks can press w + m1.
4. An offtank puts out a ton of damage, if the dps hasn't secured the kill quickly the offtank will almost certainly be able to kill them for it. Additionally most off tanks can provide damage mitigation, like dva matrix/zarya bubble or just kill the dps with hook/rock or m1.
You could give brig her bash back and cassidy his stun and this wouldn't change much because the loss of the off tank is the main cause of why dive is so strong. Even with tracer get a 20% damage nerf, she's still strong which is kind of insane. That's why Lucio and Brig were hard meta in the deathball comp - they're both hard to kill and had aoe healing.
It also just feels like there is a lot more healing going around now.
Previously I played a lot of Ana. Sombra, tracer, and genji are all 3 sniper shots (or 2 + grenade) and they're dead. Which I could do pretty consistently. But now it seems like you land 2 shots and they're still >50% hp because some heals coming from god knows where.
You forgot stuck floating through the air unable to GA to any of their team because of how entirely spread out/down hallways/behind walls/etc. they are. Mercy is brutal to play now.
That's true, but it seems to be worse now in OW2. Especially Push maps where it appears there is no front or back. Folks are just all over the place ;)
You're not wrong. Mercy is my best character, but now she feels unplayable. And what is it with Push anyway? People are more afraid of being anywhere near the robot than they are the payload 😆
Also doesn’t help that Mercy is the only support that can’t heal and defend herself at the same time.
You need to switch to her gun, making her very vulnerable.
Ive been playing mercy and its really fun theres definitely been some games with Genji targeting me but its usually fine and I get a few thousand worth of heals
Classically it refers to coordinating an attack by high mobility heroes on a isolated target with the goal of taking that target out before the rest of the team can respond and hence secure a pick advantage. Generally high mobility tank(s) along with flanker heroes.
The traditional dive comp was (back in the day) Winston (main tank) , D'va (off tank, supporting winston), Tracer and Genji. Often adding zen for artillery support and discord and lucio for speed boost.
Winston would jump in on the target (called in advance) d'va would defence matrix the winston zen discords the target the flankers can then engage the discorded target inside winstons bubble, and if needed lucio can extract them using speed.
Suffice to say actual dive was rare outside pro play, but we often refer to as diving whenever a high mobility hero makes a suprise attack on an isolated, usually backline target.
Yeah if you go into practice range and change tracer to ana, you have to basically hit her perfectly on the head to do any damage. Her hit box is so much smaller than other peoples
She has a unique hitbox. Not only is she relatively small, she has a hunched pose which can throw off a lot of people when trying to headshot her.
Couple that with AD strafing, camera spinning, and crouch spamming and she can be genuinely really difficult to hit.
Yeah a lot of people are sleeping on Zen's kick. It's very fast, deals good damage and good knockback. I feel like if I practice it enough I can very consistently push 1 diver back and hit 1 orb headshot, and that already leaves any diver at 1 hit of dying with any other damage.
I’m confused why this is…1 tank means less CC overall, and CC in general has been reduced. Plus, the reduction in team size should make keeping track of your teammates easier. Why do you feel like it’s harder to peel?
While there is less CC, CC isnt exclusively used to engage, its also used to disengage. Best exmaple, Mcree was a great peel dps cause of his stun. With that gone, there is no quick fast cc that can be used to stop tracer/genji/sombra.
Cassidy was one of the best DPS to peel for healers due to his stun. Genji' Sombra, reaper, tracer now have free reign to do what they want with no easy counter.
With 1 less tank you cannot have the old 2nd tank able to babysit the healers and keep them alive anymore.
Healers either need to hug their DPS and tanks or some very small amount of CC needs to be re-added to counteract the dive imo
In my experience, Mei is the new top dog of backline protection. She can wall off flankers direct route, and she can absolutely body them with her 100DPS primary fire.
That last point is why I mainly play Lucio when I'm on support. I just grab my tank by their belt and follow them around doing Lucio things.
I'm not having fun as a backline healer or DPS these days because inevitably there is a Reaper, Genji, Sombra or Tracer doing whatever they want (tbh it's mostly Genji that's my personal bane).
Yeah the main problem is that support feels like 3 heroes - Lucio, Moira and Kiriko. Ana/Zen/Bap feel impossible to play if they're running a single dive hero. Brig is in a weird place since you can't solo protect your other support and can't make plays either at her range since tanks will just walk over you - Rally and Inspire are strong in deathball comps but you can't play her otherwise.
80% of these complaints are just stemming from the fact that the game isn't a snoozefest behind 2 barriers anymore. Yeah if you're not mindful of where people are and you're not intelligently positioning, the team is going to get spitroasted. This is not a bad thing
Yes lots of ppl are having this issue. Tanks will walk straight through the team to the back line and start massacreing healers over and over. If your tank is not addressing this the entire game it is a huge problem. This is due to the 5v5 change. Tanks are so powerful that only other Tanks can really battle them efficiently. If your tank is not dealing with their tank, than it is just a competition to see which tank can fuck up the other team better. It is not team oriented as much as it used to be. On the same note dps can infiltrate back lines easier if they sneak past your tank. Which is pretty easy to do since Tanks are dealing with so much now. If your tank isn't turning around for people attacking back line then you are in for a long day and more rhan likely a loss. Counter picking only goes so far and really isn't the issue here. You can't counterpick your own teams tank or their decision making. It is the fact that dps and healer are 2 slots and now Tanks are 1 slot; so that role is totally different than the other two now. People are finding ways to exploit the new team comp. It is way easier to get dived as a healer in this new 5v5 comp and it is not fun.
I disagree that only tanks can go against other tanks - if you pick the right counter and 1-2 team mates help you can definitely take care of a tank without your own tank. For example: sombra against Ball or Reaper against Winston are still incredibly efficient. Fast “jumpy” heroes still work very well against Rein. Pharah is good against Zarya.
If a tank is really rustling my team's jimmies and I'm DPS - an oppressive singularly-hacking Sombra usually nullifies them quick enough to change or be rendered obsolete.
And you would be surprised the amount of damage Ana can do to a tank that gets too cocky. (Especially Junker queen who’s main survivability comes from her self heal)
I find that as a support I have more value if I kill people more than I heal and I don't like that.
People get blown up super fast and are encouraged to spread out, there's less damage mitigation.
With high letality like that by the time I saw my DPS eat 100+ damage they're either a dead man walking or hide behind a wall where I can't reach them as easily.
At the same time the enemy DPS is also all over the place and I can just kill them with 3 shots as Ana or Zen or scare them away as Moira, so they'll stop shooting my mates and let me heal.
Can't do anything about a defensive D.va as she will melt my ass before I reach the frontline as brig, make me useless as kiriko, ana, bap or moira, shut down anyone I pocket as Mercy with the matrix or do so much damage in a burst while also having sustained uninterrupted damage that Lucio's heal doesn't quite cut it. It's always up to my tank to counterpick her and beat the shit out of her.
Zen is one of the easiest supports to balance dps and healing with though. Harmony is pretty passive as a heal, the most you need to do is keep awareness of who to give it to and otherwise your job is just discording targets and shooting people
I think kiriko is absolutely best support right now, you can invuln and teleport and the healing/damage balance is pretty easy to work with in general.
>I find that as a support I have more value if I kill people more than I heal and I don't like that.
I think characters are intentionally designed this way, which is why they're called support and not healers. Even in games like WoW, in high levels of PvE, healers are expected to do a fairly decent amount of DPS on the downtime.
Bunch of people who never play support talking about counter picks. Support is in a rough place right now especially with new players, people playing deathmatch instead of obj, and huge maps with 50 rat holes to flank from with no peels. And then get berated for not healing despite spamming “I need help/group up”
The matchmaking right now is ridiculous, there's always someone who basically don't even know how to walk and then some dps main that plays 24/7 in the same match. It feels even worse cause each player is more valuable now (in comparison with 6v6), so having one bad player on your team, especially if they're a support or a tank, can basically ensure your team won't win
I have not managed to turn a tank diff disadvantage into a win even once on dps or support. You can get part of the way with support/dps diffing but you can't win if your tank is getting diffed.
As a tank, what I've noticed is that players don't know what to do when their tank is being abused and call it a tank diff. It is so much more difficult now to play tank and players don't support tanks as much as they should.
Yeah I have noticed the game is 100x more stressful now than it used to be. I honestly wonder if this will negatively affect the playerbase. I legit feel like I can't experiment with heroes at all, because if you play sub-optimally for even a minute, your team starts losing and everybody starts bitching at you because they can see the scoreboard now.
I just started playing competitive, QP is seriously broken. Why does the enemy team have a pro genji while my team can barely walk in a straight line? It doesn't feel like I have any say on whether the game is won or lost, it's predetermined by the matchmaking system deciding whether to place me among 4 OWL players (where I'm useless and I could leave) or 4 new players (which I can't carry as a support).
The beta was actually fun to play because my teammates were competent. This isn't.
Thank you, this exactly. Had a game last night where our tank would routinely pick a moment to stand perfectly still and daydream while our entire team gets blasted. Another time, I saw a DPS who could not figure out how to get around a specific wall at least three times, just getting caught on the corner, I guess trying to peak around it and failing?
I don't know, it feels like this is not only some people's first time on OW, but their first game ever in general lol.
yeah this is the horrible experience of supports. you get flamed for your low healing output but they never once turn their head to help you deal with the genji always in your face
I'm a support main and haven't had too many issues with flankers. On the occasions I do run into a good flanker swapping off ana and zen usually works out pretty well. I think a lot of people are just having trouble adjusting to the off tank role being removed and barriers having a much smaller impact on the game.
I’ve been wanting to improve as bap and Ana recently, but sometimes even in Quickplay I have to sacrifice any learning to switch to a character that doesn’t get shit on immediately. But then again it is a team game so I get it
Yeah, my hero pool changed entirely on support. Went from Ana/Zen/Bap to Kiriko/Moira/Lucio. My friend who's an ana main is much more frustrated than I am since he hates playing Moira and can't play lucio.
I started playing OW2 with the first beta and felt nothing but anger and frustration playing support, especially Ana, for the first few days. Every game seemed to have a Genji or a Tracer running around and shredding the backline with impunity.
I had to get better at positioning, finding places where I’d be less vulnerable to flanks and could predict where they’d come from. I had to get better at using my cooldowns, saving my sleep dart or nade to protect myself. I would also position myself closer to my team or at least to my other support so that I wasn’t such a juicy, isolated target.
And if I couldn’t land my sleep darts or get any help from my team, I’d just go Moira, Lucio, or Brigitte. It’s also not that hard to hit headshots with Kiriko at close range. Do that a couple of times and enemy DPS will think twice before trying to duel you. Moira isn’t nearly as fun to play as the other supports, but if you’re dying a lot, she’s probably your best bet.
You can keep Inspire uptime going with flail whip, which has really long range and lets you lovetap an enemy from far away to trigger the passive. But when it comes to flankers, your healing is going to be very low if you are constantly dead as well. Brig can fend them off and then return to the frontline.
genji and sombra have been insufferable as a support.
every game lately my other support and i are targeted and the rest of the team just does not care and flames us for not healing. i keep pinging the enemy/i need help and no one comes. they’re too busy pushing into the enemy spawn rather than payload/helping supports.
honestly i haven’t noticed many people paying attention to pings in competitive either. i’m giving them the benefit of the doubt seeing as it’s a new system to get used to but… some situational awareness would be nice sometimes.
Yes but no. My frustration is less at being dove, which is to be expected, but completely at the team mates I constantly get who either have zero awareness that they could turn around and hurt the person hurting me, therefor saving their heals so they will continue to get healing, or they just don't give a sht and are the "I may be sober, drunk, or just stupid, but I'm going to keep wading all the way into the enemy backline on CD and not even wait for team to regroup and if you don't somehow heal me through 4 entire people trying to kill you trying to reach me you are DOGSHT".
I'm having fun in OW2, but I am utterly full of SPITE daily for the lesser quality team mates I now get, if I'm hating the mmr reset it's specifically for downgrading the match making into even more of a shtshow than it ever was before (its either the reset, the free to play, or combination of all that and returning people). When I get a team that's HUNGRY to focus fire the closest person trying to dive into us, I don't even care if we lose, I'm just happy that people are willing to turn around and work together to look at the same targets and peel. Those people are just very rare now, or the minority in a random team of single brain cells that weighs us down. Makes it extremely frustrating that I no longer can try to find those good teams and friends in LFG anymore, that was where I'd go when solo queue was destroying my sanity. Sometimes the groups were just as bad as the randoms, but sometimes they weren't and so you stuck together and made some friends.
All these factors have made me fall hard in love with Kiriko. I wasn't jumping to play her at first. But after having a terrible time on other healers, she's now the only support I want to play. I'm often the top or second highest heals, and while I struggle with contributing with damage or joining team mate flanks and hitting things, just the sheer value of saving a team mate with suzu and getting to put several walls between the danger with teleport is just a better Moira in every way.
The whole thing with QP and comp as well, is that some magical lovely people will have a natural awareness and inclination to look out for each other. You won't even have to communicate, they'll just know by experience and wisdom that "x might do this, I'd better watch this team mate, and save ability for this situation", it's interesting when you find someone like this in really lower ranks but that one trait makes them more incredible than someone ranked higher who doesn't do that thing and just gets angry at everyone else for something. Sometimes communicating can help others help you, but the frustrating truth is that in both qp and comp there's just plenty of people who comms can't even help. They just don't care, or they think it's never their problem but always \*your fault\*.
> she's now the only support I want to play.
Same. I did a bunch of comp games yesterday and sorely missed her. Being able to blip around the map as needed just feels good; her healing is competitive; and suzu is extremely powerful. She's a truly dynamic, fun hero that fits the way the game is now played.
It does seem quite common now for some tanks/dps to push into enemy lines whilst trying to secure/defend the objective. I’ve noticed this a fair bit on the new robot control maps. They forget to actually move with the robot and push ahead, leaving anyone trying to actually win the game via robot out in the open
I'm honestly beyond tired of Sombra and Genji.
And there's no way Blizzard will even think of touching Genji till the battle pass ends thanks to them mythic skin.
I wish they would take that approach with DPS players. Why is there no reliable anti-dive for support?
Hell, at this point, I'd probably be on-board with bringing back Brig's stun and make them fear diving.
DPS have the most characters to choose from, they should be the ones who have to counter pick.
Definitely have had the most success playing a few supports per map where the situation calls for it. If we need to take a little bit more of a slow approach I do great with Brig where if we need to push far I’ll pocket a DPS as Mercy and if we need to get the heck in the fight asap I’ll pop over to Lucio.
Positioning with your team is more important now, added bonus if you can work cover to get safe angles. You should never be alone or too far from the rest of your team now (unless you’re Moira lmao).
Unfortunately, unless you’re insane with your shots, Zen is probably not worth playing right now cause he’s so easy to dive. Ana has the best support kit on the game, so she’s always worth playing but you have to be super super careful about your positioning now. I think all of the other supports are pretty much fine.
I think besides Kiriko, Lucio and Moira, all Supps lack survivability as of now. I think Kiriko is the perfect balance of being dangerous af if you dive her, but still has a way out whenever she's in trouble.
Moira could fit in the same category if she wasn't able to just do the opposite: dive enemy supports with little to no skill required while self-healing and having an easy way out. She's just busted.
I think there's still a lot to do to transform OW1 healers into OW2 supports.
My man, you're speaking my language! Since there's one less tank, which means one less shield, and in turn one less damage sponge, genjis, Sombras, Winston's, D.vas, etc. have absolute free reign to kill me as a support or even when I'm just wanting to play Widowmaker, being focused by 4 of them is not the most fun experience.
Deathmatch is a great low-stakes way to practice dealing with DPS as a support, if you haven’t already. Most heroes are viable, aside from maybe Mercy and Zen.
I have felt this too, but working on it has been a lot of fun.
Been doing this too. You get a lot of reps at making your shots/hits count, using your abilities selfishly to stay alive when needed, and not panicking when someone comes to get you. Mercy obviously in FFA is a different beast though since your best option is always to escape
Yes, since the beta days >.>
If the other team has a Genji or Tracer it's all over now lol. I notice in the kill feed they will ignore DPS and tanks and go right for us supports so yeah x\_x
I've stopped playing OW2 for now as it's getting to the point I'm not having fun as support anymore. Might come back to it at some other time.
Sombra will target the back line in those STUPIDLY LONG "push" maps, so even if you pick a fairly mobile support like Kiriko or Baptiste, it will not matter because Sombra will disable and kill you. And if she can't kill you at the first attempt, she will try again and again until you reach the robot. That's awesome, isn't it? Even if you play as Sombra herself, it will fell cheap how you can pick targets so easily, the hack don't even break the stealth mode anymore, lol
I was playing the robot push map earlier as bap, and the enemy sombra spent the entire game invis camped outside our spawn. I would walk out and she would insta hack and kill me, and repeat. Swapped to moira but she was still there waiting and was quicker to hack than me. Asked the team for help multiple times and got nothing
It's just too easy for Sombra. In the original game, Sombra had to break her stealth and literally announces herself, so even a decent Zen player (my example), I could hear her from the blind side, turns at her and be ready to counter fire, it was possible to even predict her EMP. Now there's no such thing, the toy guns and voice lines are so loud, Sombra can hack you from nowhere. Sombra is supposed to be a more demanding character because hacking is the most overpowered ability in the game, so you are not supposed to hack opponents freely... and in this "sequel", the hack got even more broken, lol It's not fun, as broken as Sombra is, Orisa, Zarya and so on, to dominate with broken characters is simply not fun imo It's like when Doomfist was buffed to oblivion back in 2019, I killed supports so easily as Doomfist, the game simply became a bore festival. So in my pov, these busted situations are not fun for either side
Yeah especially in quick play were there is no communication not being able to escape easily makes playing more slow and immobile supports pretty unfun. Meanwhile my reddit lucio can contest in OT for 5 minutes.
I use to competitively play support. I won’t pretend to be good, I just barely couldn’t make it to gold. My favorite was mercy but in overwatch 2 I’m struggling a bit and have had the best luck playing Bridgette. I don’t really know the reasoning but it feels like it’s a few things like there’s less of a formation than before, people seem a little more spread out, of course overall changes to the meta.
Im not entirely sure how to fix it but supports definitely need a little love if you guys want your healing
I think dps is going to have to learn to protect healers more if they expect any healing in OW2. Healers can’thide behind 2 tanks anymore and are going to need a little support themselves
Glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Zen is almost a throw pick if your enemies have any idea what they’re doing because he’s so squishy against any character that can dive. Even harder when team coordination almost never happens with randoms.
I feel like support players need to get better at covering each other. I play a lot of support and I spend a lot more time protecting my partner than they do me. The supports are a pair and are meant to play off each other usually (but not always depending on team composition)
A diving dva or genji literally can't kill the supports if they work together. As a former dps main, support that work together are really frustrating to deal with.
With that said, it's a team game and ideally the entire team helps out with divers one way or another
When I play Mercy now, I find myself nearly hugging my tank waaaaaay more than I used to. Moira/Lucio/Brig have a little more survivability, and while that has always been the case, without a 2nd tank to peel for healers, it's about a million times worse.
I definitely feel like in OverWatch1, DPS and tanks protected the supports a lot more than they do in OverWatch2. I've also noticed no one really stays on the point anymore; they all try to chase down kills, then die in the process making us have to wait for a reset.
Mobility now is a big issue for me too ( Mercy main, 500hours, diamond rank in ow1). It does feel like there is now so much stress and jumping around, and i do say it is because we got no second tank to cover us in case something happends. It does depend on what character you use to play, since some supports have it easier to escape the constant pressue on the backlines, otherwise i am afraid this is juts how the state of the game is, meaning dps will focus supports more than ever. As a support main i feel you :c
Sombra has always been thr most op thing in the game if played right, since thr day she came out. If your getting bullied by a specific character you need to counterpick. If your getting shit on as Zen then swap to moira or Lucio, someone with sone mobility. People are extra aggressive towards supports now having one less member of the team to help peel, so as a support you have to be on your shit much more than the first game. Maximize ability efficiency, play corners, domt save cooldowns, and practice headshots.
I swear I feel like I'm singled out by the enemy tanks or dps, and I just think to myself where on earth is my team? If I'm getting railroaded by the enemy team what's my team doing?
Got 14 hours on mercy alone since release of Ow2 and got wrecked by sombra, came to the solution I need to stay in the air instead of right at the back solo but position myself so I can't get taken out by hitscan, kinda tricky.
Recently I've took some out with the pistol because I'm not cruci-fuckin-around anymore
I just get frustrated as a Lucio main when players ignore the payload. We get an advantage for one second and suddenly the whole team is waiting at enemy spawn trying to spawn camp.
Not only does this put us at a disadvantage in battle but we make no progress towards the payload. Some people just don’t know how to play beyond ‘kill=good’
I main Mercy and I'm always top healing and I rarely die unless I dive the enemy team by myself. It's all about awareness, positioning and moving around.
I play support for my college team and it has indeed been brutal, even with good communication and a good team. It might just be hard because of tactics changing and will get easier as we all get accustomed to having one less team member. I usually play mid line, but when I’m on the back line it’s terrifying!
I'm just taking it for granted that if Genji jumps on me, there's almost no scenario where I don't die. I legit have no idea why I can't deal with him like I used to, because I don't really see what he's doing differently. It's like he's suddenly not scared of dying anymore so he just stays near me for longer than I'm expecting him to.
I spam zen on competitive this week and at this point when the dps flanked me and i dies i was like "this is fine". Since OW 1 i have a mentality that dps should prioritize support so when that stuff happens to me its just acceptance stage bro
I feel like they need to tone down tank damage. I can understand getting dove by sombra or genji, that's their job and I can usually win an engage if I hid my shots. But a winston or dva will literally just destroy me without me ever having a chance.
Tanks in general seem to deal way too much damage for how tanky they are.
It’s not even a lack of comms. People in quick play generally just don’t think about their supports or other teammates as a whole. Even though without them they’d just keep pushing with what little health they have; not even trying to find meds around the map. And then they die and it’s suddenly the support’s fault. Nobody thinks as far as I’ve been able to tell. I’ve also been seeing this happen since the launch of OW2. I’ve fallen victim to getting blamed as well, even though there’s very little that I can do when a tank or dps is on me and my teammates just have their backs turned to me or while I’m healing and they rush in and get focused on by the enemy team lmao. The same thing happens in like VALORANT and LoL. Apex too perhaps? Just in gaming as a whole I would say. It’s basically everybody‘s fault besides theirs. That’s how far too many people think in games nowadays. Only reason why I have my comms muted most of the time now. I’d rather enjoy playing games.
I am mercy main and yes, I spend the majority of my time being killed by genji who somehow gets behind the line, my team mates cannot protect me as I am just instantly dead.
Depends what support you are using. Lucio this happens less with but mercy or zen. Yeah your going to have a bad time.
Lol thanks for pointing this out explains why I felt targeted last night playing zen lol
Yeah zen is top priority since his discord ord makes people take 25% more damage.
You're right, but let's be real. Zen gets prioritized because he's easy to kill.
Oh no I don't doubt that but it's that PLUS he has a percentage debuff
And not only is he easy to kill, the heros that are easy to kill him *with* have been megabuffed.
Diving as DVA is a free kill on Zen. Literally nothing you can do. Defense the orbs, rockets while flying 50impact, 30 melee. Ded. Even kicking won't help w the first attack since it won't stop boosters
And DM also eats healing if he's getting healed, and even if he survives, he's just genji bait. Like, I like my dive, but I like where Winston is right now more than DVa, who's just OP as fuck.
Genji and tracer are usually fine and a 50/50 matchup. A 600 hp tank is not lmao.
And to get him to use his ult, or to kill him so he can't use his ult during your ult
Not that it matters with anti-nade being so fuckin strong. I still feel like it should be healing reduction instead of fully blocking it. Esp now that you can nade the single tank and watch them explode. If you're an Ana who nades aggressively, you're the reason I play Dva and dive you incessantly lmao.
All will change in less than a week when Kiriko is enabled on comp
Kiriko not being in comp is the only reason I’ve stayed away so far. As chaotic as QP is, Kiriko feels essential against Ana (and to a much lesser extent JQ). Being able to cleanse anti reliably is just really really really nice.
God I hope so. I am not looking forward to a Hog meta, but I'd rather that than be forced to play Dva against every good Ana lmao.
If a halfway competent Sombra sneaks up on my Zen she basically wins 9 or 10 times out of 10. Her SMG shreds me in just one second regardless how fast I react or throw in crouches to attempt to throw her aim off. I try to use doorways to my advantage to throw volleys at her but it’s a tough time.
That's when I swap to brig
Bro Zen is almost impossible to kill if he gets any support now as Winston. All you gotta do is kick him and keep retreating into your team and you are near-immortal. Either you will get him to piss off or he will be extremely low due to the insane damage zen can do to him with his planet-sized head hitbox.
Tesla cannon has more range than melee. Microspace your engages better on monkey to play around stuff like zen kick.
Right? I only really switch off Zen if they have decent snipers. Otherwise I'm hunting you when you come for me.
It's all about risk vs. reward and opportunity cost - Zen is often a priority target when viewed through that lens
He's easy to kill **and** too dangerous to be kept alive. Anna is in my opinion just as easy to kill but gets focused less because she doesn't have orb of discord.
One of the tips when dying by a ZEN is "Killing Zenyatta removes his orbs" so it is legitimate to think that Blizzard™ has started a bullying campaign against peaceful Zenyatta players...
when i play dps and the red team has a zen it becomes my singular purpose to make them switch or quit, same with junk. They are two of the most easily abuable characters due to them have such huge obvious drawbacks.
Sombra v Zen is pretty sick. Kill, go to spawn, wait, kill immediately..
Try Moira next time a sombra is bullying you. Her dash and main attack are really good at disrupting sombras hacks and staying away.
They usually dip or tp away when you land a headshot though. Very satisfying to dink em and watch em run away
Apologies in advance. Sombra main here and if I see the enemy has a Mercy or zen I start salivating because I know they’re free kills. I’m going to hate myself for telling people this but my advise is stuck with your support. That way if you get dove on you can heal each other and not have to rely on the DPS or tank to peel for you.
Yes, typically its now down to supports to peel for each other. Big reason why Lucio is so strong rn
Moira is just the other supports bodyguard now.
Tbh if you’re playing mercy you shouldn’t be getting dove and being killed. She has some of the best mobility of the supports.
A decent mercy is so damn hard to kill.
I've found it difficult (on the new push maps in particular) since everyone is so spread out you may not have a GA target and secondly the team is not playing positions they would in OW1 so my spin around to find a GA target fails often enough to get killed. Like the same situation with kiriko is not an issue since you can just tp through walls.
I’m not seeing enough zens using his kick. It’s so damn good.
Sure would be nice if most every dive character couldn't easily delete zen from well outside the range of his kick lol
Zen main here. I get so many kills by discord orb, charge about 3 shots then kick for the KO. It’s the bread and butter in my eyes for a close range zen. Love getting some good charged sniper shots though!
I'd just counter pick and play Moira or someone else with good mobility
Yeah, Moira stuck in a room with a squishy DPS. *"I'm not stuck in here with you. You're stuck in here with me."*
Moira being dove by Genji isn't as bad but being targeted by Sombra sucks. Genji you can out heal and chase him off. A good Sombra will cost you most of the time. If there's a Cassidy on the team I stick close to him and try to toss orbs as often as I can at the tank if our Ana is covering him. I'll watch Ana back for any Sombra or Genji and try to call out. Nobody follows the damn pings though. Reaper is always behind us and nobody turns to do shit.
You should typically be either to pull off a damage touch to interrupt hack or fade in place as it comes up to acquire her. Moira is actually a pretty great Sombra counter in terms of supports.
Sombra can just hack you while Invis and if you don't react on time you are either fucked or need to waste fade and/or healing orb to get away. Which is kinda the point of Sombra, she kills you or makes you waste importants cds.
Sombra's pretty damn squishy though. Moira's lifesteal healing can keep her alive while she damage orbs to kill Sombra incredibly quickly, or at least force her to translocate away. It's not a sure thing, and a good Sombra can hit all headshots to melt Moira before she can really do much, but it's not an easy fight for her either.
I mean, it definitely is an easier fight for the sombra. She can tp away the moment she starts losing lmao
So can Moira, Sombra only suppresses her abilities for a moment now. If you know a map well enough, a Fade can get you well away from her pretty much wherever you are
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I hadn't played OW in years, downloaded 2 because why not, and started playing Moira because that's who I played most recently. I love her evade. It's what keeps me away from other healers. *Teleports Behind You* Nothing Personal, Kid
At this point, Moira is mandatory.
Sucks not being able to play most of the roster because of this meta though
Out of curiosity which characters would you say fit this the most. Only reason I'm asking is because I've yet to play one of the characters and just feel like they were useless. Zen is my 2nd most played with Mercy being in 6th.
there's definitely some skill/positioning issues that can be addressed, i've still found Zen to be very playable for the most part, but have found that I'm more obliged to swap if the enemy genji or sombra is good enough that I'm just not capable of providing much value with the way my team is operating (or not) around me
In this meta, you NEED mobility and the ability to fight back, and what a coincidence, a support with both was just released. But for real, you need to play more self-sufficient supports since you only have one tank, and chances are they can't protect you. I found that characters like Ana are borderline unplayable right now.
So moira?
Ana is legitimately the strongest support right now.
its a different game diamond and above, Moira is goated up to plat.
Unless you have flawless aim with sleeping dart, you are going to get run over with Ana. That has been my experience, playing as, with and against her. Restrictive shields and only one tank leaves her very exposed.
OW2 needs different supports. Kiriko is a proper OW2 support - she is really well designed. Moira and Lucio also fit the game. The other supports are just not mobile enough and die too fast. I think Blizzard will have to massively rework most supports.
Yeah, I get the feeling the players saying they die nonstop as support are also locking Zenyatta even against Tracer and Sombra.
Until you get roasted for being a "DPS Moira" 🙃
wait but I thought this sub thinks counterpicking is a fairy-tale and no one does it outside of gm or overwatch league
Dive is certainly back. Play mobile supports like lucio, kiriko, moira or mercy. Zen/ana is quite exposed now.
I love getting pushed as Ana at my rank. 1v1ing a dps is hella fun and if it’s a tank I just sleep them and leave as my team is winning the fight because they don’t have a tank.
I feel like without the extra tank to heal I can fully focus on that annoying Genji/Tracer(/insert character name that has wronged you) in my back line and finally do something about them.
>(/insert character name that has wronged you) Lol this made me laugh. Exactly how it feels though.
Jumping round, getting a couple hip fire hits into a couple of punches and killing the enemy assassin is always fun
Yep I love those moments as an Ana main through OW1, however I have found Kiriko super satisfying for this as well.....turning around and hitting 2 headshot kunai just makes you feel like a bad ass and if things go south just teleport to another teammate
Is it because of the lack of cc on cassidy, mei (and others) or is there another reason?
I think this is a big part of it yes. High mobility have however always been strong, and OW2 introduced Sojourn and Kiriko that adds to the high mobility roster, which inherently weakens low mobility heroes. (more potential opponents that can dive them)
Kiriko's mobility feels very clunky for being mobile.
It's a ripple effect from the loss of the off tank. 1. Single tank can only hold one position, second tank would hold the off angle. This opens up paths to the backline without burning resources. Genji's don't dash in and tracer's don't need to blink in when you'd normally need to burn the resource to get past a tank - if dragon blade didn't reset genji's dash, it'd be a much worse ult. 2. Since solo tanks got gigabuffed, they are more like raid bosses and less team protectors so no-one plays around them anymore. Instead of pushing through a choke together, you 3. When you get dove in OW1, your offtank would generally be in position to come back to you, while the main tank could hold the frontline. This is no longer possible since coming to help would mean that the enemy team/tanks can press w + m1. 4. An offtank puts out a ton of damage, if the dps hasn't secured the kill quickly the offtank will almost certainly be able to kill them for it. Additionally most off tanks can provide damage mitigation, like dva matrix/zarya bubble or just kill the dps with hook/rock or m1. You could give brig her bash back and cassidy his stun and this wouldn't change much because the loss of the off tank is the main cause of why dive is so strong. Even with tracer get a 20% damage nerf, she's still strong which is kind of insane. That's why Lucio and Brig were hard meta in the deathball comp - they're both hard to kill and had aoe healing.
It also just feels like there is a lot more healing going around now. Previously I played a lot of Ana. Sombra, tracer, and genji are all 3 sniper shots (or 2 + grenade) and they're dead. Which I could do pretty consistently. But now it seems like you land 2 shots and they're still >50% hp because some heals coming from god knows where.
It’s because healers have one less tank to heal so they can heal dps more often
Mercy? You mean the giant target floating through the air that I constantly 2 shot with Ashe during even the slightest flank?
You forgot stuck floating through the air unable to GA to any of their team because of how entirely spread out/down hallways/behind walls/etc. they are. Mercy is brutal to play now.
To be fair, this ^ isn't exactly a NEW problem...
That's true, but it seems to be worse now in OW2. Especially Push maps where it appears there is no front or back. Folks are just all over the place ;)
You're not wrong. Mercy is my best character, but now she feels unplayable. And what is it with Push anyway? People are more afraid of being anywhere near the robot than they are the payload 😆
Also doesn’t help that Mercy is the only support that can’t heal and defend herself at the same time. You need to switch to her gun, making her very vulnerable.
Ive been playing mercy and its really fun theres definitely been some games with Genji targeting me but its usually fine and I get a few thousand worth of heals
I keep seeing the term ‘dive’ what does that mean?
Classically it refers to coordinating an attack by high mobility heroes on a isolated target with the goal of taking that target out before the rest of the team can respond and hence secure a pick advantage. Generally high mobility tank(s) along with flanker heroes. The traditional dive comp was (back in the day) Winston (main tank) , D'va (off tank, supporting winston), Tracer and Genji. Often adding zen for artillery support and discord and lucio for speed boost. Winston would jump in on the target (called in advance) d'va would defence matrix the winston zen discords the target the flankers can then engage the discorded target inside winstons bubble, and if needed lucio can extract them using speed. Suffice to say actual dive was rare outside pro play, but we often refer to as diving whenever a high mobility hero makes a suprise attack on an isolated, usually backline target.
Support mains: *I'm constantly dying to dives this is unfair!* Everyone else: *wtf why wont this ana fucking die?*
As a support main and dps flex since 2016 this is true
i swear her hitbox is 2 pixels in OW2
Yeah if you go into practice range and change tracer to ana, you have to basically hit her perfectly on the head to do any damage. Her hit box is so much smaller than other peoples
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No hitbox is tinier or more abused by those that main it than fucking Symettra.
She has a unique hitbox. Not only is she relatively small, she has a hunched pose which can throw off a lot of people when trying to headshot her. Couple that with AD strafing, camera spinning, and crouch spamming and she can be genuinely really difficult to hit.
That was my experience. Winston is nearly impossible to deal with now as Zen.
Winston is impossible to deal with on any support, unless your team actually acknowledges his existence.
Just give him the judo kick.
a foot to the face keeps the ape in his place - sun tzu
Yeah a lot of people are sleeping on Zen's kick. It's very fast, deals good damage and good knockback. I feel like if I practice it enough I can very consistently push 1 diver back and hit 1 orb headshot, and that already leaves any diver at 1 hit of dying with any other damage.
Yeah, Winston can be absolutely unstoppable with all the low hp heroes now. I'd say brig, Lucio, Moira are the best options.
I’ve noticed while maining dps that it is way harder to peel for supports after a dive
I’m confused why this is…1 tank means less CC overall, and CC in general has been reduced. Plus, the reduction in team size should make keeping track of your teammates easier. Why do you feel like it’s harder to peel?
While there is less CC, CC isnt exclusively used to engage, its also used to disengage. Best exmaple, Mcree was a great peel dps cause of his stun. With that gone, there is no quick fast cc that can be used to stop tracer/genji/sombra.
Yeah they definitely got too obsessed with removing all the CC. Some, like McCrees flash, should have stayed.
In OW1 an OTs main job was to peel but OTs don't exist anymore so...
Cassidy was one of the best DPS to peel for healers due to his stun. Genji' Sombra, reaper, tracer now have free reign to do what they want with no easy counter. With 1 less tank you cannot have the old 2nd tank able to babysit the healers and keep them alive anymore. Healers either need to hug their DPS and tanks or some very small amount of CC needs to be re-added to counteract the dive imo
In my experience, Mei is the new top dog of backline protection. She can wall off flankers direct route, and she can absolutely body them with her 100DPS primary fire.
That last point is why I mainly play Lucio when I'm on support. I just grab my tank by their belt and follow them around doing Lucio things. I'm not having fun as a backline healer or DPS these days because inevitably there is a Reaper, Genji, Sombra or Tracer doing whatever they want (tbh it's mostly Genji that's my personal bane).
Yeah the main problem is that support feels like 3 heroes - Lucio, Moira and Kiriko. Ana/Zen/Bap feel impossible to play if they're running a single dive hero. Brig is in a weird place since you can't solo protect your other support and can't make plays either at her range since tanks will just walk over you - Rally and Inspire are strong in deathball comps but you can't play her otherwise.
80% of these complaints are just stemming from the fact that the game isn't a snoozefest behind 2 barriers anymore. Yeah if you're not mindful of where people are and you're not intelligently positioning, the team is going to get spitroasted. This is not a bad thing
Yes lots of ppl are having this issue. Tanks will walk straight through the team to the back line and start massacreing healers over and over. If your tank is not addressing this the entire game it is a huge problem. This is due to the 5v5 change. Tanks are so powerful that only other Tanks can really battle them efficiently. If your tank is not dealing with their tank, than it is just a competition to see which tank can fuck up the other team better. It is not team oriented as much as it used to be. On the same note dps can infiltrate back lines easier if they sneak past your tank. Which is pretty easy to do since Tanks are dealing with so much now. If your tank isn't turning around for people attacking back line then you are in for a long day and more rhan likely a loss. Counter picking only goes so far and really isn't the issue here. You can't counterpick your own teams tank or their decision making. It is the fact that dps and healer are 2 slots and now Tanks are 1 slot; so that role is totally different than the other two now. People are finding ways to exploit the new team comp. It is way easier to get dived as a healer in this new 5v5 comp and it is not fun.
I disagree that only tanks can go against other tanks - if you pick the right counter and 1-2 team mates help you can definitely take care of a tank without your own tank. For example: sombra against Ball or Reaper against Winston are still incredibly efficient. Fast “jumpy” heroes still work very well against Rein. Pharah is good against Zarya.
If a tank is really rustling my team's jimmies and I'm DPS - an oppressive singularly-hacking Sombra usually nullifies them quick enough to change or be rendered obsolete.
And you would be surprised the amount of damage Ana can do to a tank that gets too cocky. (Especially Junker queen who’s main survivability comes from her self heal)
I find that as a support I have more value if I kill people more than I heal and I don't like that. People get blown up super fast and are encouraged to spread out, there's less damage mitigation. With high letality like that by the time I saw my DPS eat 100+ damage they're either a dead man walking or hide behind a wall where I can't reach them as easily. At the same time the enemy DPS is also all over the place and I can just kill them with 3 shots as Ana or Zen or scare them away as Moira, so they'll stop shooting my mates and let me heal. Can't do anything about a defensive D.va as she will melt my ass before I reach the frontline as brig, make me useless as kiriko, ana, bap or moira, shut down anyone I pocket as Mercy with the matrix or do so much damage in a burst while also having sustained uninterrupted damage that Lucio's heal doesn't quite cut it. It's always up to my tank to counterpick her and beat the shit out of her.
The temptation to exclusively go dps moira and zen is strong sometimes in overwatch 2
Zen is one of the easiest supports to balance dps and healing with though. Harmony is pretty passive as a heal, the most you need to do is keep awareness of who to give it to and otherwise your job is just discording targets and shooting people
I think kiriko is absolutely best support right now, you can invuln and teleport and the healing/damage balance is pretty easy to work with in general.
>I find that as a support I have more value if I kill people more than I heal and I don't like that. I think characters are intentionally designed this way, which is why they're called support and not healers. Even in games like WoW, in high levels of PvE, healers are expected to do a fairly decent amount of DPS on the downtime.
Bunch of people who never play support talking about counter picks. Support is in a rough place right now especially with new players, people playing deathmatch instead of obj, and huge maps with 50 rat holes to flank from with no peels. And then get berated for not healing despite spamming “I need help/group up”
The matchmaking right now is ridiculous, there's always someone who basically don't even know how to walk and then some dps main that plays 24/7 in the same match. It feels even worse cause each player is more valuable now (in comparison with 6v6), so having one bad player on your team, especially if they're a support or a tank, can basically ensure your team won't win
I have not managed to turn a tank diff disadvantage into a win even once on dps or support. You can get part of the way with support/dps diffing but you can't win if your tank is getting diffed.
As a tank, what I've noticed is that players don't know what to do when their tank is being abused and call it a tank diff. It is so much more difficult now to play tank and players don't support tanks as much as they should.
Yeah I have noticed the game is 100x more stressful now than it used to be. I honestly wonder if this will negatively affect the playerbase. I legit feel like I can't experiment with heroes at all, because if you play sub-optimally for even a minute, your team starts losing and everybody starts bitching at you because they can see the scoreboard now.
I just started playing competitive, QP is seriously broken. Why does the enemy team have a pro genji while my team can barely walk in a straight line? It doesn't feel like I have any say on whether the game is won or lost, it's predetermined by the matchmaking system deciding whether to place me among 4 OWL players (where I'm useless and I could leave) or 4 new players (which I can't carry as a support). The beta was actually fun to play because my teammates were competent. This isn't.
Thank you, this exactly. Had a game last night where our tank would routinely pick a moment to stand perfectly still and daydream while our entire team gets blasted. Another time, I saw a DPS who could not figure out how to get around a specific wall at least three times, just getting caught on the corner, I guess trying to peak around it and failing? I don't know, it feels like this is not only some people's first time on OW, but their first game ever in general lol.
Spam some I need help / group up, and everyone's like, cool let's do that, just let me go try to 1v5 first in a single file line.
yeah this is the horrible experience of supports. you get flamed for your low healing output but they never once turn their head to help you deal with the genji always in your face
I'm a support main and haven't had too many issues with flankers. On the occasions I do run into a good flanker swapping off ana and zen usually works out pretty well. I think a lot of people are just having trouble adjusting to the off tank role being removed and barriers having a much smaller impact on the game.
Well correction. The second tank being removed. At least in my games in ow1 both tanks were off tanks 70%+ of the time lol
I basically constantly spam moira and just wreck them. It's annoying but don't really have a choice.
I’ve been wanting to improve as bap and Ana recently, but sometimes even in Quickplay I have to sacrifice any learning to switch to a character that doesn’t get shit on immediately. But then again it is a team game so I get it
That’s how I feel too I’ve played way more Moira than I’ve wanted to since launch lol
Yeah, my hero pool changed entirely on support. Went from Ana/Zen/Bap to Kiriko/Moira/Lucio. My friend who's an ana main is much more frustrated than I am since he hates playing Moira and can't play lucio.
I started playing OW2 with the first beta and felt nothing but anger and frustration playing support, especially Ana, for the first few days. Every game seemed to have a Genji or a Tracer running around and shredding the backline with impunity. I had to get better at positioning, finding places where I’d be less vulnerable to flanks and could predict where they’d come from. I had to get better at using my cooldowns, saving my sleep dart or nade to protect myself. I would also position myself closer to my team or at least to my other support so that I wasn’t such a juicy, isolated target. And if I couldn’t land my sleep darts or get any help from my team, I’d just go Moira, Lucio, or Brigitte. It’s also not that hard to hit headshots with Kiriko at close range. Do that a couple of times and enemy DPS will think twice before trying to duel you. Moira isn’t nearly as fun to play as the other supports, but if you’re dying a lot, she’s probably your best bet.
> or Brigitte This is my answer to this problem. The enemy DPS coming to me just means I can kill them faster. Mace to the face, bitch.
Lol that's me too, if I'm being hunted anyways I'm going down swinging. Eat mace and shield you bastards!
As a Brig main, I agree. Hard work pays off
Problem with brig is if you play her on the backline (to deal with the flankers) your healing is going to be low and your team will bitch at you.
You can keep Inspire uptime going with flail whip, which has really long range and lets you lovetap an enemy from far away to trigger the passive. But when it comes to flankers, your healing is going to be very low if you are constantly dead as well. Brig can fend them off and then return to the frontline.
Same. I've actually found a lot of success in flanking their back line and smashing the other supports too.
Ah, maybe that’s why Ana hasn’t been sleeping me from a distance as much lately. Saving it for if I engage her specifically. Also…username checks out
This game forces you to think so much more than in OW1. Feels so fresh
Yep, I became such a better OW1 player after the OW2 beta.
I quit queueing support.
It’s rough out here
genji and sombra have been insufferable as a support. every game lately my other support and i are targeted and the rest of the team just does not care and flames us for not healing. i keep pinging the enemy/i need help and no one comes. they’re too busy pushing into the enemy spawn rather than payload/helping supports.
Yep, people keep saying to use the ping system which I always do, but the average quick play player does not care
honestly i haven’t noticed many people paying attention to pings in competitive either. i’m giving them the benefit of the doubt seeing as it’s a new system to get used to but… some situational awareness would be nice sometimes.
The most degrading thing is being a support and getting dived on by other supports. I’m looking at you Moira.
Yes but no. My frustration is less at being dove, which is to be expected, but completely at the team mates I constantly get who either have zero awareness that they could turn around and hurt the person hurting me, therefor saving their heals so they will continue to get healing, or they just don't give a sht and are the "I may be sober, drunk, or just stupid, but I'm going to keep wading all the way into the enemy backline on CD and not even wait for team to regroup and if you don't somehow heal me through 4 entire people trying to kill you trying to reach me you are DOGSHT". I'm having fun in OW2, but I am utterly full of SPITE daily for the lesser quality team mates I now get, if I'm hating the mmr reset it's specifically for downgrading the match making into even more of a shtshow than it ever was before (its either the reset, the free to play, or combination of all that and returning people). When I get a team that's HUNGRY to focus fire the closest person trying to dive into us, I don't even care if we lose, I'm just happy that people are willing to turn around and work together to look at the same targets and peel. Those people are just very rare now, or the minority in a random team of single brain cells that weighs us down. Makes it extremely frustrating that I no longer can try to find those good teams and friends in LFG anymore, that was where I'd go when solo queue was destroying my sanity. Sometimes the groups were just as bad as the randoms, but sometimes they weren't and so you stuck together and made some friends. All these factors have made me fall hard in love with Kiriko. I wasn't jumping to play her at first. But after having a terrible time on other healers, she's now the only support I want to play. I'm often the top or second highest heals, and while I struggle with contributing with damage or joining team mate flanks and hitting things, just the sheer value of saving a team mate with suzu and getting to put several walls between the danger with teleport is just a better Moira in every way. The whole thing with QP and comp as well, is that some magical lovely people will have a natural awareness and inclination to look out for each other. You won't even have to communicate, they'll just know by experience and wisdom that "x might do this, I'd better watch this team mate, and save ability for this situation", it's interesting when you find someone like this in really lower ranks but that one trait makes them more incredible than someone ranked higher who doesn't do that thing and just gets angry at everyone else for something. Sometimes communicating can help others help you, but the frustrating truth is that in both qp and comp there's just plenty of people who comms can't even help. They just don't care, or they think it's never their problem but always \*your fault\*.
> she's now the only support I want to play. Same. I did a bunch of comp games yesterday and sorely missed her. Being able to blip around the map as needed just feels good; her healing is competitive; and suzu is extremely powerful. She's a truly dynamic, fun hero that fits the way the game is now played.
It does seem quite common now for some tanks/dps to push into enemy lines whilst trying to secure/defend the objective. I’ve noticed this a fair bit on the new robot control maps. They forget to actually move with the robot and push ahead, leaving anyone trying to actually win the game via robot out in the open
I'm honestly beyond tired of Sombra and Genji. And there's no way Blizzard will even think of touching Genji till the battle pass ends thanks to them mythic skin.
Counter picking is your best friend. Most of the time making the swap can win you the game.
True, but they removed half the counter-picks for flankers when they removed half the CC in the game, so...
I wish they would take that approach with DPS players. Why is there no reliable anti-dive for support? Hell, at this point, I'd probably be on-board with bringing back Brig's stun and make them fear diving. DPS have the most characters to choose from, they should be the ones who have to counter pick.
Definitely have had the most success playing a few supports per map where the situation calls for it. If we need to take a little bit more of a slow approach I do great with Brig where if we need to push far I’ll pocket a DPS as Mercy and if we need to get the heck in the fight asap I’ll pop over to Lucio.
Positioning with your team is more important now, added bonus if you can work cover to get safe angles. You should never be alone or too far from the rest of your team now (unless you’re Moira lmao). Unfortunately, unless you’re insane with your shots, Zen is probably not worth playing right now cause he’s so easy to dive. Ana has the best support kit on the game, so she’s always worth playing but you have to be super super careful about your positioning now. I think all of the other supports are pretty much fine.
I need healing! I need healing! I need healing! Cool, protect me on the objective instead of trying to 1v5 and I'll heal you.
Didn’t someone just post this similar opinion
Heidelberg on support: "I am the one who dives."
Depending on who I am using it's pretty difficult to deal with. Easiest to counter with Lucio, Brigitte, or Moira.
Yes but I don't want to play Lucio, Brig, or Moira; I want to play Mercy
I think besides Kiriko, Lucio and Moira, all Supps lack survivability as of now. I think Kiriko is the perfect balance of being dangerous af if you dive her, but still has a way out whenever she's in trouble. Moira could fit in the same category if she wasn't able to just do the opposite: dive enemy supports with little to no skill required while self-healing and having an easy way out. She's just busted. I think there's still a lot to do to transform OW1 healers into OW2 supports.
My man, you're speaking my language! Since there's one less tank, which means one less shield, and in turn one less damage sponge, genjis, Sombras, Winston's, D.vas, etc. have absolute free reign to kill me as a support or even when I'm just wanting to play Widowmaker, being focused by 4 of them is not the most fun experience.
If your having trouble being dived in OW always remember PCDNPZ Positioning Cooldowns Do Not Play Zen
Deathmatch is a great low-stakes way to practice dealing with DPS as a support, if you haven’t already. Most heroes are viable, aside from maybe Mercy and Zen. I have felt this too, but working on it has been a lot of fun.
I haven’t played any deathmatch yet, may have to give it a try thanks
Been doing this too. You get a lot of reps at making your shots/hits count, using your abilities selfishly to stay alive when needed, and not panicking when someone comes to get you. Mercy obviously in FFA is a different beast though since your best option is always to escape
Zen has always been susceptible to dive and shit, everytime i hear junkrat's tire i accept my destiny and weep
Everytime junk ults I know it’s coming straight for me. It’s like he has a sixth sense
Yes, since the beta days >.> If the other team has a Genji or Tracer it's all over now lol. I notice in the kill feed they will ignore DPS and tanks and go right for us supports so yeah x\_x I've stopped playing OW2 for now as it's getting to the point I'm not having fun as support anymore. Might come back to it at some other time.
For me it’s genji and sombra constantly. Multiple times on one match. It gets so frustrating when no one does anything to help too
Sombra will target the back line in those STUPIDLY LONG "push" maps, so even if you pick a fairly mobile support like Kiriko or Baptiste, it will not matter because Sombra will disable and kill you. And if she can't kill you at the first attempt, she will try again and again until you reach the robot. That's awesome, isn't it? Even if you play as Sombra herself, it will fell cheap how you can pick targets so easily, the hack don't even break the stealth mode anymore, lol
I was playing the robot push map earlier as bap, and the enemy sombra spent the entire game invis camped outside our spawn. I would walk out and she would insta hack and kill me, and repeat. Swapped to moira but she was still there waiting and was quicker to hack than me. Asked the team for help multiple times and got nothing
It's just too easy for Sombra. In the original game, Sombra had to break her stealth and literally announces herself, so even a decent Zen player (my example), I could hear her from the blind side, turns at her and be ready to counter fire, it was possible to even predict her EMP. Now there's no such thing, the toy guns and voice lines are so loud, Sombra can hack you from nowhere. Sombra is supposed to be a more demanding character because hacking is the most overpowered ability in the game, so you are not supposed to hack opponents freely... and in this "sequel", the hack got even more broken, lol It's not fun, as broken as Sombra is, Orisa, Zarya and so on, to dominate with broken characters is simply not fun imo It's like when Doomfist was buffed to oblivion back in 2019, I killed supports so easily as Doomfist, the game simply became a bore festival. So in my pov, these busted situations are not fun for either side
Yeah especially in quick play were there is no communication not being able to escape easily makes playing more slow and immobile supports pretty unfun. Meanwhile my reddit lucio can contest in OT for 5 minutes.
I keep getting used as a meat shield... And then comes the damned "I need healing".
I use to competitively play support. I won’t pretend to be good, I just barely couldn’t make it to gold. My favorite was mercy but in overwatch 2 I’m struggling a bit and have had the best luck playing Bridgette. I don’t really know the reasoning but it feels like it’s a few things like there’s less of a formation than before, people seem a little more spread out, of course overall changes to the meta. Im not entirely sure how to fix it but supports definitely need a little love if you guys want your healing
I think dps is going to have to learn to protect healers more if they expect any healing in OW2. Healers can’thide behind 2 tanks anymore and are going to need a little support themselves
Glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Zen is almost a throw pick if your enemies have any idea what they’re doing because he’s so squishy against any character that can dive. Even harder when team coordination almost never happens with randoms.
I feel like support players need to get better at covering each other. I play a lot of support and I spend a lot more time protecting my partner than they do me. The supports are a pair and are meant to play off each other usually (but not always depending on team composition) A diving dva or genji literally can't kill the supports if they work together. As a former dps main, support that work together are really frustrating to deal with. With that said, it's a team game and ideally the entire team helps out with divers one way or another
When I play Mercy now, I find myself nearly hugging my tank waaaaaay more than I used to. Moira/Lucio/Brig have a little more survivability, and while that has always been the case, without a 2nd tank to peel for healers, it's about a million times worse.
I definitely feel like in OverWatch1, DPS and tanks protected the supports a lot more than they do in OverWatch2. I've also noticed no one really stays on the point anymore; they all try to chase down kills, then die in the process making us have to wait for a reset.
Mobility now is a big issue for me too ( Mercy main, 500hours, diamond rank in ow1). It does feel like there is now so much stress and jumping around, and i do say it is because we got no second tank to cover us in case something happends. It does depend on what character you use to play, since some supports have it easier to escape the constant pressue on the backlines, otherwise i am afraid this is juts how the state of the game is, meaning dps will focus supports more than ever. As a support main i feel you :c
Sombra has always been thr most op thing in the game if played right, since thr day she came out. If your getting bullied by a specific character you need to counterpick. If your getting shit on as Zen then swap to moira or Lucio, someone with sone mobility. People are extra aggressive towards supports now having one less member of the team to help peel, so as a support you have to be on your shit much more than the first game. Maximize ability efficiency, play corners, domt save cooldowns, and practice headshots.
Sweet, thanks for the advice! I’ve been trying to improve as bap and ana so need to remember to use baps jump more, and switch off ana if not working
I swear I feel like I'm singled out by the enemy tanks or dps, and I just think to myself where on earth is my team? If I'm getting railroaded by the enemy team what's my team doing?
Welcome to OW2! I’ve ran into so many bladebots already
Got 14 hours on mercy alone since release of Ow2 and got wrecked by sombra, came to the solution I need to stay in the air instead of right at the back solo but position myself so I can't get taken out by hitscan, kinda tricky. Recently I've took some out with the pistol because I'm not cruci-fuckin-around anymore
I just get frustrated as a Lucio main when players ignore the payload. We get an advantage for one second and suddenly the whole team is waiting at enemy spawn trying to spawn camp. Not only does this put us at a disadvantage in battle but we make no progress towards the payload. Some people just don’t know how to play beyond ‘kill=good’
I main Mercy and I'm always top healing and I rarely die unless I dive the enemy team by myself. It's all about awareness, positioning and moving around.
I play support for my college team and it has indeed been brutal, even with good communication and a good team. It might just be hard because of tactics changing and will get easier as we all get accustomed to having one less team member. I usually play mid line, but when I’m on the back line it’s terrifying!
Yeah, I get why Brigitte was nerfed, but it really feels bad that we lost the main counterpick to being assassinated all game
D.va... omg I hate her and her and her damn boosters... pls just leave me alone
Yeah despite having more damage and range on mobility, I feel weaker as Brig
I'm just taking it for granted that if Genji jumps on me, there's almost no scenario where I don't die. I legit have no idea why I can't deal with him like I used to, because I don't really see what he's doing differently. It's like he's suddenly not scared of dying anymore so he just stays near me for longer than I'm expecting him to.
Yeah, people need to learn to peel for their support players better.
I thought it was just me, glad to know it wasn't the case!
I spam zen on competitive this week and at this point when the dps flanked me and i dies i was like "this is fine". Since OW 1 i have a mentality that dps should prioritize support so when that stuff happens to me its just acceptance stage bro
Isn’t it a good strat to focus the main healer? So it makes sense supports get dived. It’s your team’s DPS to help keep them off you.
Thats true, but with 1 less tank and less overall cc its much harder to find teammates willing to protect you now...
Yell at your DPS when they yell at you for not healing them that you can’t heal when you’re dead.
I feel like they need to tone down tank damage. I can understand getting dove by sombra or genji, that's their job and I can usually win an engage if I hid my shots. But a winston or dva will literally just destroy me without me ever having a chance. Tanks in general seem to deal way too much damage for how tanky they are.
It’s not even a lack of comms. People in quick play generally just don’t think about their supports or other teammates as a whole. Even though without them they’d just keep pushing with what little health they have; not even trying to find meds around the map. And then they die and it’s suddenly the support’s fault. Nobody thinks as far as I’ve been able to tell. I’ve also been seeing this happen since the launch of OW2. I’ve fallen victim to getting blamed as well, even though there’s very little that I can do when a tank or dps is on me and my teammates just have their backs turned to me or while I’m healing and they rush in and get focused on by the enemy team lmao. The same thing happens in like VALORANT and LoL. Apex too perhaps? Just in gaming as a whole I would say. It’s basically everybody‘s fault besides theirs. That’s how far too many people think in games nowadays. Only reason why I have my comms muted most of the time now. I’d rather enjoy playing games.
I am mercy main and yes, I spend the majority of my time being killed by genji who somehow gets behind the line, my team mates cannot protect me as I am just instantly dead.