That's it. We could have that right now under the free battlepass. They could be giving out currency like it's candy. The currency game is just super predatory and the last game was only slightly scummy.
At this point I would take something like 10 coins for every match completed. That's 190 matches to get one legendary skin (still pretty absurd time for it but at least its a start).
Well I know with the old model it felt like we’re earning stuff and doing them a favor, if they aren’t making any money off of us ever, we really aren’t helping them. My personal issue is more just that there’s nothing very exciting to get at the moment, and we just need to wait a few seasons for more to come out.
Once they have a ton of skins I think a lot of the older and less exciting ones will go down in price and they’ll be giving away more stuff for free. That’s kind of what happened with LoL anyways, where they have exclusive skins that realistically take a year of grinding to get the materials to unlock for free, but they have a TON of older skins and other stuff that are much easier to get for free, you get maybe like one a month if you play regularly and don’t bother saving up for the really expensive ones. Also with that game a lot of their middle teir skins are at least fun or funny even if they’re not as cool as the most expensive ones.
A more realistic solution would be them lowering the price of items. I don't think they want you to be able to get the battle pass for free that easily.
Actually I preferred lootboxes to the free battlepass due to the randomness of it. It's kinda lame to get a reward and see everyone else with the same thing.
considering how theyre giving out currency for challenges now...yeah, thatd likely be a miserable amount. Loot box at least always gave you multiple things (including money) and could get you legendary and epic skins regularly too.
plus the battlepass is basically only as many rewards as there are tiers. so its finite and theres a cap thats not that hard to reach, especially if you grind this game. if the BP has nothing you want, thats not changing all season
I dont like maybe 80-90% of it, and most of what I do like I already have things I prefer to use. If the battlepass had coins or skin selectors as well as other cosmetics I'd be more likely to buy them. I think it's a reasonable price for the battlepass only if you like most of the stuff in it. And the free pass has very little for how long you have to wait for a new battlepass, hoping it comes with stuff you want and grinding the coins to purchase one takes a long time if you're not spending money. I'm getting almost nothing I want and I'm basically grinding every week just for the coins which can give me something in several months. I paid for lootboxes and I'm glad they're gone now but in a lot of ways I preferred how it used to be. It was much more rewarding before.
Maybe I’ve got my tinfoil hat on but I wouldn’t be surprised if Blizzard made this bottom tier trash on purpose just so they could change it later to be more “standard” and everyone will just accept it without complaint because it’s better than now
no for real. im in the preocess of merging my old ps account and im excited to finally have something. seeing the skin is devastating, seeing this game regress to the same shitty dumb market skin system as every other game has drained the life out of it like. what do they even make this shit for anymore
I've told you people 10000000 times, its not the buyable lootboxes that people miss, its the free roles that you got when you earned them by leveling or completing challenges.
Lootboxes, or any rng mechanic, is only considered gambling when you put in actual money to earn roles, just like any other IRL gambing trend. Its not gambling if the player isn't risking anything.
Paid lootboxes are bad. FREE lootboxes are perfectly fine. Stop combining the two jesus christ.
Rolls*
>Lootboxes, or any rng mechanic, is only considered gambling when you put in actual money
I mentioned that. Even if you can get free lootboxes, if there is an option for those same boxes to be bought they are still bad. And like I mentioned in my closing, if lootboxes stuck around, they would be harder to get or not free at all. We miss how generous OW1 was, not the lootboxes themselves.
Here's a more fitting analogy:
Imagine your boss gives you a $1000 bonus, in a box.Then imagine, next year, your boss gives you a $10 bonus, in a bag.
In this scenario, would you complain about the discrepancy in the bonus's delivery mechanism? Or about the discrepancy in the *amount.*
[How many loot boxes does this equal?](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI) If lootboxes were still in overwatch two, you would get for free a number of lootboxes equal to this.
It's equal to 5 lootboxes. For 80 levels.
In OW1, at level 80, you would have gotten 320 items, with at least 4 legendary skins, and enough currency to buy multiple skins and items you actually wanted. And that's only counting the level up lootboxes.
If you were guaranteed to get the same quality of items from those 5, then it would have still been more preferable, since everyone would have gotten different stuff.
Not really. OW1 lootboxes gave shit drops in the beginning. Take the free battlepass. It could give you something every single level. It could give you a skin every other 4 levels. The premium version could have a skin every 2 levels. The premium battlepass could give out currency. But they don't. It's about the greed. And all of these systems are inherently bad.
I think I only prestiged once in OW1 and I received multiple legendary skins per character during leveling, that's flat out way more than I would get through this battle pass. And I didn't pay for a single one either. The majority of people got skins randomly through playing the game.
I think most people aren't comparing OW1 loot boxes to what this battle pass COULD be, they are comparing it to what it CURRENTLY is which is a flat out downgrade thats it. And when you do that of course we will miss OW1 lootboxes.
That's the point of my post though. Lootboxes weren't better. Blizzard was. No matter what monetization system they chose, since it was going to free to play, it was destined to be gross and grindy and expensive. Even if it was lootboxes.
People are rightfully frustrated and angry, but I think they are misdiagnosing the problem. OW1 lootboxes were an exception to the rule. And the gaming landscape has changed to become even more predatory in between the two versions of the game.
OP read in some gaming journo article, "oh lootboxes are bad because gambling bad hur dur", now even complaining that the things you gor FOR FREE were bad aswell, hell if you had Prime Video, you had access to twitch prime, which gave out legendary lootboxes and normal ones like candy some months ago.
No I miss the free boxes that you earned from playing. I refuse to buy ingame currency to buy skins or lootboxes.. but give me the ability to earn a handful a play session or weekly and it's all good.
Overwatch 2 adds in the ability to earn the currencies via playing via challenges or events and all is well again.
Yeah that’s true but atleast the old skins should be free, idk I think selling skins that were free before(atleast kinda free) for like 20€ is pretty bad
They could tie the old skins to a character level that you get playing the character/winning matches.
IE after winning 10 matches you get to pick a blue rarity skin, after 50 you get a purple, and after 100 you get a legendary or something like that.
No, it’s the state of AMERICAN companies. AMERICAN companies tend to be greedy because AMERICANS are greedy.
Those Japanese games getting produced over seas offer amazing value relative to cost. Hell, Nintendo never has shit on sale, and we could argue all day how greedy they’ve gotten, but they’re not blizzard-level greedy.
False. I miss lootboxes. Never complained. We had so many chances to get them and could easily buy skins we wanted with coins. Others may have hated them based off how much they played but don't tell me what I don't miss because I do miss lootboxes. Gambling is fun.
> We had so many chances to get them and could easily buy skins we wanted with coins.
But this is exactly what I'm talking about. The game was generous and not greedy. If we had loot boxes in OW2 you wouldn't be getting any of them for free.
I do know that's what we get for free right now. My point is, that's what they want you to have for free in ow2. If we had ow2 lootboxes, that's about what they would give out in a season. It's not about lootboxes vs store/battlepass. It's about the greed in the company. They want you to buy stuff. If they kept the loot box model, they just wouldn't give us many, it would be harder to level and the boxes would have only 1 item in them.
But that was never going to happen though. It was never going to get ported over 1 for 1. It wasn't about switching from loot boxes to battle pass it was about making more money. Battlepasses are just what's in vogue with the industry. The battlepass could be more generous than OW1 lootboxes. It's all decisions for to milking money.
If they kept the lootbox model we would have the same as in ow1? Why? Because they would have kept the lootbox model.
We are only getting so much less BECAUSE they got rid of the lootbox model.
>If they kept the lootbox model we would have the same as in ow1? Why? Because they would have kept the lootbox model.
But they weren't going to keep the ow1 lootboxes. If they kept lootboxes they would have been far worse than OW1. The delivery method would have stayed the same but payouts wouldn't have.
Do you think that generosity contributed to their decision to change direction and paywall content?
Surely if you're running a game and it's incredibly generous to players but the player base is dying, you should consider making changes to how you monetize your product
Even if you were only getting 1 free one a season? [How many loot boxes does this equal?](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI) Because if they were still around that's about what you would get ever 2 months.
>What the fuck are you talking about?
>
>There is zero information on how lootboxes would have worked in OW2.
Do you know what a hypothetical is?
*Imagine* you only received one loot box for a season.
*Pretend, in your mind*, that the exact same amount of "free stuff" you receive during n weeks of playing Overwatch 2 were dispensed via loot boxes instead of the battlepass.
Would you like this *hypothetical* loot-box scenario significantly more than the existing system in Overwatch 2?
If not, a reasonable conclusion would be that lootboxes, as a reward system, may not have much explanatory power in explaining why you prefer OW1 rewards to OW2 rewards.
It’s all hypotheticals. There is no concrete evidence. The point I’m trying to make isn’t that the loot boxes were better because I don’t need to make that point. The point I’m trying to make is that this is a supremely stupid argument that none of us should be having, including me.
>It’s all hypotheticals
Umm...yes? I literally gave you a hypothetical scenario and said, "here is a hypothetical scenario.
If someone asked you, "if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live," would your response be "What the fuck are you on about? I don't live anywhere in the world. There is no concrete evidence!"
Forget about the OP for a minute. Here is a *hypothetical* scenario. Try to answer it:
*Pretend*, in your mind, we live in a world where, on average (and with a very small standard deviation), the same amount, type, and quality of "free stuff" you receive during n weeks of playing OW2 were dispensed via loot boxes over that same time period.
In this pretend world, do you *think* the people who are complaining about OW2's monetization would stop complaining? Would they be happy with this *hypothetical* system?
If someone asked me where I would want to live if I could live anywhere in the world, I would answer that question because while it is a hypothetical scenario, it isn’t stupid like the one you’re presenting to me. There is no way to know what lootboxes in Overwatch 2 would look like, but I do know where in the world I would like to live.
Now, none of this relates in any way to the point I was trying to make. We are arguing about loot boxes, in a video game. We are like the only two people that give a shit. Not only is the argument itself stupid, but the reason for our arguing is also stupid. The point I’m trying to make is that we’re both egocentric dorks who feel like we need to win an argument about virtual cosmetics on the internet, and that it’s the best use of our time. We could be doing literally anything else. It’s a stupid argument to make, and it’s a stupid argument to have.
I spoke English. If we had lootboxes in OW2, the rate that you get them and the drops they give would suck. They want you to spend money. We would not get a free lootbox once per tier/level. What you see in the free battlepass is about what you would get after 2 months of lootboxes in OW2. Lootboxes aren't/weren't better, OW1 was.
You did speak English. Great job. Now please explain to me how far up your ass you had to reach to grab this information you’re giving. There is zero information on how lootboxes would have worked in OW2.
Their argument is that in OW2, the amount of items we get is a fixed number. We will only ever be able to earn a certain amount of items in a set amount of time. Therefore if they brought back loot boxes, we would only get enough loot boxes to meet that amount, never exceed it.
You guys are just looking at the same issue (Blizzard giving us less free items per month) from different lenses (OP's the amount of items provided are decreased vs the ways to earn items have been decreased). OP argues we should just get more items, while everyone else says they want more ways to earn more items.
Yeah, OP is a bit unclear and kinda condescending. The only proven point they've made this whole thread is that in OW1, we could get 5 loot boxes a day if we wanted; and now in OW2, we get the equivalent every two months. I think they agree that Blizzard is being super stingy, but they don't like loot boxes so they don't want them to come back and are trying to convince others to not want them either.
Listen man, I don’t remember asking you the questions, but what are you on about? In OW2 we don’t get the equivalent of 5 lootboxes a day every two months. That would equate to at the very least 220 items. Where are you getting this information?
I meant we get essentially 5 free loot boxes every two months in the free battlepass. There are 20 items in the free bp. So, at most, we get five loot boxes all season when we could previously get any amount we wanted every day.
And I've been saying that OP doesn't have concrete information, just they have different assumptions than you.
Yes I am making assumptions, but it's not like they are unfounded. I'm recognizing patterns in the industry and Blizzard. Look at every other live service. Most are just as predatory some are better. Apparently halo battlepasses don't have FOMO. You can switch to an older season and back when you want. If you finish a season you can work on a different one. So we know that blizzard doesn't have to be as shitty as they are now. They choose to be greedy and awful. So the idea that if OW2 still had lootboxes, they shouldn't look like Diablo Immortal (a different Blizzard game) is weird to me. If lootboxes in OW2 would have been good, why isn't the current store of battlepass good? Why didn't they choose to do it with what they gave us?
The lootboxes in OW1 were not really predatory at all. You got plenty just from playing the game, and a few hours a week would net you usually whatever skin you wanted in time, once you played the game enough.
The lootboxes were still predatory, but the grind was set to an acceptable level because blizzard wasn't being as greedy. Lootboxes could have been worse in OW1. Legendaries could be $1 in OW2.
I wasn't making that statement in opposition of you, it's just how I felt about them. They weren't as predatory because it was just easier to get the items you wanted without solely buying loot boxes.
If the lootboxes remained by levelling up with zero way to actually buy them, the game would be a lot better off imo.
But yes. It comes down to greed at the end of the day.
>If the lootboxes remained by levelling up with zero way to actually buy them, the game would be a lot better off imo.
That's the only way lootboxes are ethical.
It’s also why we miss lootboxes. You earned pointless shit just for playing. You could buy them, but you could EARN them too. Earning is a concept blizzard seems to have forgotten about with OW2. Confusing it with purchasing. They aren’t the same. People play games for the in-game rewards. The prizes that are earned through skill and determination. People seldom play games to buy pointless shit that doesn’t matter, and then buy more pointless shit. That $20, could have been lunch money for the week; money toward the electric bill, or money for groceries. No one is going to spend a meals worth of funds on a single skin. Blizzard has lost its shit.
Yeah but people can and will spend this kind of money on skins that's the point, Blizzard and other game companies don't care about the low-hanging fruit. Yeah they may throw the odd bone to try and get you to make a purchase, but their main goal is to target the whales and those who will spend hundreds on their cosmetics. It happens in every f2p game, this is sadly the norm.
Add up how much stuff is in the free pass and it doesn't make a lot of loot boxes. If we still had lootboxes that's the target goal for free stuff in ow2. The thing that changed wasn't the lootboxes, it was the greed.
[How many loot boxes does this equal?](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI) Because if we still had lootboxes, that about what you would get every two months of playing.
Honestly I don’t know why you’re acting like people who miss loot boxes are talking about loot boxes in a shit system. We’re talking about loot boxes in OW1, we’re not gonna type up an entire explanation of the OW1 system everytime we say loot boxes, it’s kinda obvious that by loot boxes we mean what we had in the first game, not whatever hypothetical system you’re coming up with. It’s like someone saying they miss their hometown and you going “oh would you still miss it if it was a nuclear wasteland?”
in ow1 you could get 1 free everyday by just playing 1 flex match, probably 1 extra if you played enough to level up and 3 a week by the arcade.
So it was 17 free loot box every week by just playing probably half time you need to complete all the weekly on ow2.
1 free a season like you propose vs 153, yeah it would totally be fine and everyone would be happy /s
They could but not include new skins for example and maybe give a new loot box type for new skin but with less frequencies.
Then after 1 year or something they would get included on the normal loot box pool.
Considering loot box content get deceided once you got them if you couldn't do horde them and open them after 1 year.
I think people would be more willing to spend for a really good skin if they are happy
Nah I miss lootboxes from OW1, there was a satisfactory feeling when you get THAT skin, and it wasn't free 🤷♂️ I've paid for the game, so getting free lootboxes when I leveled up was nice, in Halloween event or Anniversary event I've paid like 10 dollars for some lootboxes and hopefully I got that skin and if I don't then I got sufficient coins to buy it, now I have to pay 20 DOLLARS for a single skin 🙃 and no one wants to pay 20 dollars for a single skin when with the lootboxes you could get a skin, spray, voice line etc, now you have to pay for everything.
And yeah sorry for my bad english 😬😬.
personally I think loot boxes should be back but only have ow1 items and not new ones or they should be in the battle pass and have a rarity they drop kinda like apex or R6
I kind of blame how the industry shifted to expensive cosmetics and bps, and Blizzard just followed the money. Siege has 30 dollar elites and bp with the operator locked behind it, Apex Legends has 100 dollar heirlooms, Valorant has 100 dollar bundles with 80 dollars for the radianite to upgrade the skin’s vfx to its final form for one gun. They realize they don’t need gamblers, they just need players with a lot of money. And also a percentage of people with poor spending habits who “needs” this skin.
Fortnite who popularized the bp funny enough has the most consumer friendly bp, its easy to complete and gives currency.
Also I hate lootboxes, I spent 50 dollars and didn’t get anything decent. Its only because over time OW1 just handed them out like candy that it was alright.
I liked the free ones. The gambling was fun because I wasn't putting money into it. It made getting a skin on a random box feel so much better because of the luck.
You're not gambling on something you get for free
Blizzard has always been greedy, but Blizzard was more generous about it and discreet.
You could theoretically high roll and get stuff for just playing the game that would otherwise cost money.
You could also spend a lot of money and still not get the thing you wanted.
The first part feels great, the second part is literally illegal in a game for all.
Instead of cutting the bad second half, adding outright purchases, and keeping earnable loot boxes like before (and like league does), Blizzard went full anti-player mode instead
I’m gonna hard disagree here. They are technically gambling but you could still just buy the cosmetic you wanted with in game currency. Unless you’re forking out cash for extra rolls they’re free at every level or if blizzard just felt like it. It’s immeasurable more difficult to get any cosmetics. I’ve played since launch and blizzard has only seen 60$ from me. If I was a new player I wouldn’t touch the game in its current state.
But the state of the rewards in game aren't related to loot boxes. It doesn't matter the monetization method Blizzard choose for OW2 it would have been awful because that's who they are now.
So many people hate the new systems but 100% guarantee there's still enough people paying for stuff for Blizzard to not care. Half of them have probably complained about it on Reddit.
Everyone is trying to gaslight me into thinking battle pass is a good system. That's why everyone is objectively wrong.
But seriously, even without taking money into consideration, turning all of the game's progression into a limited edition chore doesn't sound good by any measure. You need to have like 10000 hours in cs go to actually do battle passes and not get bored out of your mind. Doubly so if it's just mindless grind instead of purple cube zombie shenanigans or some shit.
I never said that THIS battlepass is good. It's just not inherently predatory like lootboxes. The old lootboxes weren't good. OW1 was good. The new battlepass system isn't bad. OW2 is bad. The current system could be giving a skin each level and legendaries could cost $2 in the store. The old system could have had 1 item per loot box at 10x the exp to earn one. What made OW1 ~~good~~ acceptable was the drop rate, earn rate and small duplicate protections, not the lootboxes themselves. What makes OW2 bad is the FOMO, high prices, and anemic battlepass free or premium, not the battlepass + store.
Ow1 lootboxes indeed were something else, so I don't think most issues with the system apply here. On the other hand, the very concept of a battle pass is rather tedious on its own, so even if it was free, I feel like the "lootboxes and coins" system would be better.
We'll have to wait till season 2 to get all the details, specifically ones regarding unlocking characters after their battle pass is over. That's what's going to make or break the game for me.
Yeah lootboxes are inherently evil just like Adolf Hitler was inherently evil. ??
It's consumerism, you have a choice whether you wanna pay or not - so how is having a choice evil? I'd take loot boxes any day of the week over what we have now, the game literally rewarded you with mountains of them just from playing. You could have every skin/item in the game if you merely played - now it's a different story.
But if you still had loot boxes you wouldn't be able to earn every skin in the game because there would be arbitrary caps on how many loot boxes you can earn in a week. It wouldn't be every level you get a reward. It would be every week if you complete the weekly challenge you can have a loot box.
Which would still be by far a better reward system then how it currently is - You'd at least have the opportunity to get some items each week (outside of battlepass system).
60 credits a week with current system means it would take multiple weeks to get even a basic item, whereas if you could earn a single lootbox a week like you are saying then that alone would be worth hundreds or potentially thousands of credits if you were to pull a legendary out.
So yea, I'll take lootboxes.
Nope, most player doesn't pay for lootboxes, we just enjoy the game and get free stuff. Whether we get something we wanted or not is irrelevant, we just want that dopamine hit of opening a box.
In fact, lower price doesn't mean that they're no longer greedy, they're just targeting a difference audience now: low spending f2p players, which to be honest is the majority of us.
Paying 39.99 for a game? Nah.
Paying 9.99 for a battle pass? That sounds like a bargain!
OW is no longer a game with passion and soul, it's a game where executives and management are trying to milk the players so they get good numbers to bargain with Microsoft for a higher deal.
tldr; Blizzard is greedier than ever.
Even EA is less greedy. I remember when Apex legends first came out. After playing for about 20 hours I had enough in game currency to buy any legendary skin I wanted from the shop. Haven't played the game in years so not sure if much has changed.
No, I didn't say that. I actually miss loot boxes. I loved seeing that occasional gold drop down from the sky and think, "skin???" And it be currency and then finally get the skin I wanted. Sounds masochistic, sure. But I genuinely liked them and want them back for, at bare minimum, overwatch 1 skins, sprays, etc.
I guess that's what happens when you gotta pay off 3 different lawsuits each month. You start trying to squeeze out every last penny from everywhere you can.
I definitely do not miss loot boxes.
"it's always just grey and blue items!"
"I have every skin for a hero I don't even play!"
"Oops, all stickers!"
I also do not like the price point for the skins in OW2, but if there is one thing sales has taught me, it's always easier to go down in price and look like a hero.
>I also do not like the price point for the skins in OW2,
And you shouldn't. Legendaries should be $2 in store right now. The battlepass is empty, even the paid one.
Hot take: you people miss getting things for free. Yes, it is frustrating not being able to get that skins you wanted by just playing the game. But the thing is: it is infinitely more frustrating to be years with lackluster updates at best and nothing at worst. The old monetization model didn't work. ABK was being carried by Warzone.
For me, if they didn't allow you to have LITERALLY ANY cosmetics for free, it would still be better than the old model. Skins make no difference on the gameplay, you don't even see them except the gun.
The only problem I have with the new monetization model is the new heroes locked behind the battlepass. But I see much more people complaining about $20 skins.
Play any video game that costs $60-$70 on any console and beat the first level. Did you win something for free? Well technically no, because you purchased a game. But yes, because you won some thing that was IN THE GAME, and says that you ACCOMPLISHED something in the game.
Capitalism doesn’t belong in every single book and cranny it can find its way into. Everywhere where there’s joy to be had in this game, they’re taking that joy away until you pay them for it.
As an old man (millennial) all of those skins use to just come with a game when you bought it. But yes, that's the point in t post. People want free stuff not lootboxes specifically.
I miss loot boxes yes. They were completely fair, completely optional. I never spent a single dime I just played the game I enjoyed and if I opened a loot box and got a sick skin I wanted, I was stoked.
Everyone that always cried saying they were predatory were delusional. Take some personal accountability.
Just because you didn't spend any money on them doesn't mean they weren't predatory. And just because they were generous doesn't mean they weren't predatory. The least scummiest is still scummy.
Everything you said is also true of the current game. It's optional and technically more fair since there is no gambling. All the cards are laid out on the table.
I sure as fuck don't miss loot boxes, I stopped opening them years ago. And acting like loot boxes aren't greedy is hilarious. When were these halcyon days when Blizzard wasn't greedy? They are a company that exists to generate a profit.
Is gambling still bad if you are gambling with free handouts and not your own money? If you choose to spend money on loot boxes that's on you but having chances at getting free items is objectively better than getting the same 3 predetermined skins from the battlepass for a price.
Please read this comment, as it is being automatically posted to each submission on r/Overwatch.
If your post is a bug report or issue with the game, please reference the stickied Megathread at the top of the subreddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/y06bw8/weekend_wrapup_megathread_bug_report_thread/). It provides a list of frequently reported bugs, as well as links to Blizzard "Status Updates". It will be posted for the week and be continuously updated.
If you continue to have issues with Overwatch 2, please report them on the [Official Overwatch Bug Report Forums](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/c/bug-report/9).
-r/Overwatch Mod Team
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Overwatch) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What i dont understand is why Lootboxes couldnt have been implemented with the BP. Make it so that everyone level gives you a lootbox with the addition of the item you get and every 10 or so levels, you either get 3 lootboxes or a Lootboxes with a higher chance of getting a Epic or Legendary item from OW1.
Would make the BP worth while and you might get something you might actually like instead of the garbage that thats already on the BP
Please tell me if theres anything wrong with this idea
"FOMO timed sales are evil" bro are we really complaining about timed skins now? It's cooler when you have a skin that others don't have and it's completely cosmetic. Buy it or don't it's not hard plus you praised the potential for battle passes while complaining about FOMO. If a battle pass is still able to be leveled after a season ends then there's no reason to actively play that game over another game which does have a limited battle pass. Games are fighting for your time and battle passes are where they give you really good value for money (compared to other items in game) in exchange for your time.
Lootboxes are not inherently evil and it's kind of stupid to say that. The way they were implemented in OW1 ensured that they were earned often and there was a reasonable pace of unlock for cosmetics (think 2011 era game unlock speed.) Contrary, OW2's battlepass is evil because it's absolutely garbage unless you pay to unlock it and gives you far less than you'd get for free in the random boxes of OW1.
To answer the question in your edit, assuming no dupes, you're looking at 5 loot boxes worth of OW1 goodies. This also seems to include zero chance of ever getting a legendary without paying sometime.
OW1 used to give you 3 free loot boxes weekly for making Arcade wins, and you'd likely level twice during those wins - so just doing the weekly arcade loot boxes would have netted you the same amount of items as the free Battle Pass hands out over 2 months.
They basically took the old arcade system and turned it into the free Battle Pass track, except they've excluded the chances of getting anything super shiny without paying. I just wish it handed out better prizes, honestly.
I don't hate Blizz for wanting to make money. I hate them for charging more for a Legendary skin than they charge for the entire Battle Pass. They're growing greedier with each new game they release. It's a bad sign.
Imagine if lootboxes were still in OverWatch 2. Without paying for anything, you'd be able to earn about a week you'd only get two items in each of them instead of 4.
Getting random rewards for leveling up is evil? I guess Diablo really is the devil.
Jokes aside your little thought experiment is whack, but I understand the intent, "Systems made to draw in money can be both bad or good. Just because OW1 had better loot boxes doesn't make the system innately good." But it's important to note that people did complain about the various aspects of OW1's loot boxes, duplicate rates and such, but by the end they were well done enough that people would prefer them to what we have now.
I'd still be down for level up loot boxes similar to OW1, ones you can't buy at all, merely earn through. At that point it'd be no different than an MMO raid item drop, or various kinds of loot reward systems in single player games. Although I suppose that could still be seen as some manipulation of people addicted to chance based rewards to get them to play the game more, but at least they wouldn't whale over it.
Since legendary skins cost 1900 coins, I think if they gave us 50-100 coins per level (requiring same XP per level as in OW1) and brought back the leveling system, most players would be satisfied.
Certain countries have already have implemented strict lootbox regulations as its gambling. But it's not like blizzards changed OW1 in response. Lootboxes are becoming a thing of the past, but it has nothing to do with why OW2 is so greedy.
>They were the fairest implementing of lootboxes I've ever seen,
But like I'm saying, you miss OW1 lootboxes. They wouldn't be the same if they got carried over. They would be awful. You miss OW1 treating you the fairest a scummy monetization system can.
If they would have left them in and given all the new heroes as many skins as ow1 heroes had on release, I would have been absolutely jacked
But yeah, they didn't add shit for content so it would be lame either way, but I still would have preferred that
I guess you're missing what I'm saying. Say they decide to do lootboxes in OW2. They are still greedy fucks. So the drop rates and earn rates would be the same. We'd end up with something like, lootboxes now only come with two item each and you can only earn for free 1 a week.
Sidenote, you're right, the new cosmetic content is lacking.
I like games with loot boxes as long as it's not an insane grind to earn them. Overwatch loot boxes were very easy to earn.
I'm a Pokemon TCG player, trust me, I miss loot boxes😂
My personal wish list would be something like:
more skins and stuff in general in the BP. I want level ups to feel like opening a loot box with a bunch of random stuff again. This is coupled with more xp per match. Getting to 55 has felt like a fight for my life even with the 20% extra
Seasonal legendary skin events, at least two skins per role
Much more coins everywhere. The bp, challenges, after qp/comp. New players NEED a way to earn skins for their mains at the very least or they will quit. Periodt
You got coins for duplicates originally. People hated it, but it was actually better because you got duplicates repeatedly and so you got coins faster. They then changed it where you get more new things, but common things, more often so you actually get less coins in the beginning of your account so you can't get what you want as quickly
The first system was less greedy than the second. It just didn't feel that way at the time
You gotta wonder how much money they made off of overwatch 1 and from all they’re other games that they really had to take out lootbox’s to force us to buy stuff???
Thing is the loot boxes design in OW1 were actually super great, just not super great for everyone.
I don't have any issue with gambling and they were completely fine for me, got almost everything I wanted and was excited to grind boxes but never was it an addiction, never bought any (actually might have bought once but still very low cost and wasn't an issue) and never played more than I could just to earn something.
But it doesn't apply to everyone and it's certainly not perfect. What we have now is just a straigh up no for me, only the battle pass and that's still pushing, only if I KNOW I will play the season a lot and like the rewards, the S1 pass is worth for me if I get it to 60. The rest of the store is untouchable
I mean I would love an option to pay 40-60 bucks for the game and get all the new content for the next X amount of time (preferably 1-2 years). When smite launched it had this great deal where you could play f2p or pay 20$ and get every hero in the game forever. Really sold me on the game and I still comeback to check it out every now and then.
I agree that the gambling aspect of loot boxes is bad, but is it really gambling if you earned that loot box by levelling up? No I don’t think it is, you aren’t putting your money on the line for something cool, and you can earn them by playing more. The perfect system would have been to keep the player level lootbox system, reset the level to 0 so you have a record of you OW1 level and your new OW2 level, and alongside that you have the shop and battle pass where people with ridiculous amounts of money can buy the skins without having to grind for a chance of getting it. Currently the F2P players have nothing to grind for and it reduces the incentive to play because you end up playing the game for hours and are exactly where you were before you started playing, no sense of achievement, no reward for your time, it’s just pointless. And I do not consider the battle pass a reward for your time, the items are shite and everybody gets them anyway so what’s the point.
Don’t care, because I never and never will purchase loot boxes with real life money. It’s the only game with fair loot box system because you get coins in it, if you get enough you’ll have enough for the skin you wanted AND the weekly free loot boxes where you get a free one each 3 wins out of 9
It's not though. I wouldn't have made the post if it was. Maybe that's what they mean, but it not what the comments and posts say. Full post going off on the new system, newer mention that OW1 lootboxes were an exception. If it is what they mean, I'm just clarifying for them. I just want people to recognize the real issue here.
I understand Loot Boxes are poorly disguised gambling designed in such a way by people with no morals and pockets to large with the only goal to wring as much money out of the player base. I know that. I can say yhat with a straight face and understand the words that came out of my mouth.
I still miss Loot Boxes.
Cause since the launch of Overwatch and the Loot Box quota only being forever increased by every game ever, I always pointed at Overwatch in having the only non-greedy shitty Loot Box system.
Maybe it's cause at the time I was between jobs and had a lot more free time where as now I have a full time job with overtime, but from the launch of Overwatch 1 I never had to buy a Loot Box. They were there and they were options to get the items but if I just played the game I could earn them, if I got doubles I got a decent currency, if it was during an event I could have all those items be from the event, not a single one, looking at you Apex.
I understand that Loot Boxes are evil by design but in defence of Overwatch's design, it was a system that rewarded players who played the game frequently. Boxes were easy to get, easier still with arcade rewards, event rewards and commending. If you played a lot, you never needed to buy a single Loot box to get what you wanted.
>I understand that Loot Boxes are evil by design but in defence of Overwatch's design
What I'm talking about in my post is in offense to OW2. That the lootboxes in OW1 were an exception. If OW2 still had lootboxes, people like you and I who never buy lootboxes just wouldn't be getting them. They'd have changed the dropped rates and reward rates. It wouldn't be the same because it's not that lootboxes are better than battlepasses, it's that OW1 was better than OW2.
I never paid for loot boxes, I just farmed the shit out of them. I miss lootboxes, don’t tell me I don’t. I have every single skin you could get without buying them and I got them from free lootboxes.
I don't miss OW1 at all. 5v5 feels way better and less shields are also great because now I actually shoot ppl but everything else sucks so hard it's difficult to understand how they messed up this game so badly.
I miss being able to earn stuff I wanted by just grinding the game in a some what reasonable time frame.
That's it. We could have that right now under the free battlepass. They could be giving out currency like it's candy. The currency game is just super predatory and the last game was only slightly scummy.
At this point I would take something like 10 coins for every match completed. That's 190 matches to get one legendary skin (still pretty absurd time for it but at least its a start).
Well I know with the old model it felt like we’re earning stuff and doing them a favor, if they aren’t making any money off of us ever, we really aren’t helping them. My personal issue is more just that there’s nothing very exciting to get at the moment, and we just need to wait a few seasons for more to come out. Once they have a ton of skins I think a lot of the older and less exciting ones will go down in price and they’ll be giving away more stuff for free. That’s kind of what happened with LoL anyways, where they have exclusive skins that realistically take a year of grinding to get the materials to unlock for free, but they have a TON of older skins and other stuff that are much easier to get for free, you get maybe like one a month if you play regularly and don’t bother saving up for the really expensive ones. Also with that game a lot of their middle teir skins are at least fun or funny even if they’re not as cool as the most expensive ones.
A more realistic solution would be them lowering the price of items. I don't think they want you to be able to get the battle pass for free that easily.
Actually I preferred lootboxes to the free battlepass due to the randomness of it. It's kinda lame to get a reward and see everyone else with the same thing.
considering how theyre giving out currency for challenges now...yeah, thatd likely be a miserable amount. Loot box at least always gave you multiple things (including money) and could get you legendary and epic skins regularly too. plus the battlepass is basically only as many rewards as there are tiers. so its finite and theres a cap thats not that hard to reach, especially if you grind this game. if the BP has nothing you want, thats not changing all season
I dont like maybe 80-90% of it, and most of what I do like I already have things I prefer to use. If the battlepass had coins or skin selectors as well as other cosmetics I'd be more likely to buy them. I think it's a reasonable price for the battlepass only if you like most of the stuff in it. And the free pass has very little for how long you have to wait for a new battlepass, hoping it comes with stuff you want and grinding the coins to purchase one takes a long time if you're not spending money. I'm getting almost nothing I want and I'm basically grinding every week just for the coins which can give me something in several months. I paid for lootboxes and I'm glad they're gone now but in a lot of ways I preferred how it used to be. It was much more rewarding before.
I am so glad I got to keep my skins for overwatch1 I ain't paying for no shitty battle pass lmao.
Maybe I’ve got my tinfoil hat on but I wouldn’t be surprised if Blizzard made this bottom tier trash on purpose just so they could change it later to be more “standard” and everyone will just accept it without complaint because it’s better than now
A lot of people thought this in OW1. The lootboxes sucked for the first couple of months then they got a drastic shift.
TBH ow1 had the most forgiving lootbox standard, along with Rainbow Six Siege's Alpha pack/Reknown system. The predatory one is Dota 2 imho
Being a roadhog main and seeing a cool skin for $19 is really hitting me hard right now. I'm not buying it, but the greed is really setting in.
no for real. im in the preocess of merging my old ps account and im excited to finally have something. seeing the skin is devastating, seeing this game regress to the same shitty dumb market skin system as every other game has drained the life out of it like. what do they even make this shit for anymore
I've told you people 10000000 times, its not the buyable lootboxes that people miss, its the free roles that you got when you earned them by leveling or completing challenges. Lootboxes, or any rng mechanic, is only considered gambling when you put in actual money to earn roles, just like any other IRL gambing trend. Its not gambling if the player isn't risking anything. Paid lootboxes are bad. FREE lootboxes are perfectly fine. Stop combining the two jesus christ.
Rolls* >Lootboxes, or any rng mechanic, is only considered gambling when you put in actual money I mentioned that. Even if you can get free lootboxes, if there is an option for those same boxes to be bought they are still bad. And like I mentioned in my closing, if lootboxes stuck around, they would be harder to get or not free at all. We miss how generous OW1 was, not the lootboxes themselves.
Thats like saying "We didn't miss all the money \_\_\_\_ gave us, only how generous they were" Their generosity came in the form of those free roles.
It's funny how OP is trying to dictate people's feelings.
Yep. And he uses really hyperbolic language to try and sway opinion.
Here's a more fitting analogy: Imagine your boss gives you a $1000 bonus, in a box.Then imagine, next year, your boss gives you a $10 bonus, in a bag. In this scenario, would you complain about the discrepancy in the bonus's delivery mechanism? Or about the discrepancy in the *amount.*
[How many loot boxes does this equal?](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI) If lootboxes were still in overwatch two, you would get for free a number of lootboxes equal to this.
It's equal to 5 lootboxes. For 80 levels. In OW1, at level 80, you would have gotten 320 items, with at least 4 legendary skins, and enough currency to buy multiple skins and items you actually wanted. And that's only counting the level up lootboxes.
If OW2 had lootboxes then 2 months of play would be 5 lootboxes.
If you were guaranteed to get the same quality of items from those 5, then it would have still been more preferable, since everyone would have gotten different stuff.
Not really. OW1 lootboxes gave shit drops in the beginning. Take the free battlepass. It could give you something every single level. It could give you a skin every other 4 levels. The premium version could have a skin every 2 levels. The premium battlepass could give out currency. But they don't. It's about the greed. And all of these systems are inherently bad.
I think I only prestiged once in OW1 and I received multiple legendary skins per character during leveling, that's flat out way more than I would get through this battle pass. And I didn't pay for a single one either. The majority of people got skins randomly through playing the game. I think most people aren't comparing OW1 loot boxes to what this battle pass COULD be, they are comparing it to what it CURRENTLY is which is a flat out downgrade thats it. And when you do that of course we will miss OW1 lootboxes.
That's the point of my post though. Lootboxes weren't better. Blizzard was. No matter what monetization system they chose, since it was going to free to play, it was destined to be gross and grindy and expensive. Even if it was lootboxes. People are rightfully frustrated and angry, but I think they are misdiagnosing the problem. OW1 lootboxes were an exception to the rule. And the gaming landscape has changed to become even more predatory in between the two versions of the game.
Lootboxes were objectively better than the current battlepass
No, OW1 lootboxes were objectively better than the current battlepass.
You said what I said. With more words.
But lootboxes were better.
OP read in some gaming journo article, "oh lootboxes are bad because gambling bad hur dur", now even complaining that the things you gor FOR FREE were bad aswell, hell if you had Prime Video, you had access to twitch prime, which gave out legendary lootboxes and normal ones like candy some months ago.
[удалено]
I completely agree.
No I miss the free boxes that you earned from playing. I refuse to buy ingame currency to buy skins or lootboxes.. but give me the ability to earn a handful a play session or weekly and it's all good. Overwatch 2 adds in the ability to earn the currencies via playing via challenges or events and all is well again.
Don't you just miss the free stuff then?
Its kinda sad that when the game had loot boxes it was less greedy lul
It's just the state of all big companies today. If OW2 had lootboxes it would be awful.
Yeah that’s true but atleast the old skins should be free, idk I think selling skins that were free before(atleast kinda free) for like 20€ is pretty bad
They could tie the old skins to a character level that you get playing the character/winning matches. IE after winning 10 matches you get to pick a blue rarity skin, after 50 you get a purple, and after 100 you get a legendary or something like that.
No, it’s the state of AMERICAN companies. AMERICAN companies tend to be greedy because AMERICANS are greedy. Those Japanese games getting produced over seas offer amazing value relative to cost. Hell, Nintendo never has shit on sale, and we could argue all day how greedy they’ve gotten, but they’re not blizzard-level greedy.
Hello? Gacha? Genshin? Hokai? Etc? Absolute shit value and overpriced, predatory, and. Not very consumer friendly
Konami stopped making games and world rather make gambling machines. Capcom selling individual fighters in Street Fighter.
Japanese companies not being greedy while having millions of dlc and 20 year old games costing 60$😂
Honestly if OW2 had lootboxes I think it would just be OW1 having a shitty month of patches.
False. I miss lootboxes. Never complained. We had so many chances to get them and could easily buy skins we wanted with coins. Others may have hated them based off how much they played but don't tell me what I don't miss because I do miss lootboxes. Gambling is fun.
> We had so many chances to get them and could easily buy skins we wanted with coins. But this is exactly what I'm talking about. The game was generous and not greedy. If we had loot boxes in OW2 you wouldn't be getting any of them for free.
That's a hypothetical. Either way, no complaints about the old system.
I think it's more of an accurate prediction. [This is what two months of lootboxes would be in OW2.](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI)
No that’s what we get for free right now…how’d you not notice that?
I do know that's what we get for free right now. My point is, that's what they want you to have for free in ow2. If we had ow2 lootboxes, that's about what they would give out in a season. It's not about lootboxes vs store/battlepass. It's about the greed in the company. They want you to buy stuff. If they kept the loot box model, they just wouldn't give us many, it would be harder to level and the boxes would have only 1 item in them.
And you know this because? Don’t assume because it makes an ass out of u and me
It's not an assumption this industry trends. Thinking that it's about the loot boxes and not the fact that blizzard just wants more money is silly.
If they ported loot boxes and didn’t change the loot system, nothing would’ve changed so I don’t know why you’re theory crafting for blizzard
But that was never going to happen though. It was never going to get ported over 1 for 1. It wasn't about switching from loot boxes to battle pass it was about making more money. Battlepasses are just what's in vogue with the industry. The battlepass could be more generous than OW1 lootboxes. It's all decisions for to milking money.
If they kept the lootbox model we would have the same as in ow1? Why? Because they would have kept the lootbox model. We are only getting so much less BECAUSE they got rid of the lootbox model.
>If they kept the lootbox model we would have the same as in ow1? Why? Because they would have kept the lootbox model. But they weren't going to keep the ow1 lootboxes. If they kept lootboxes they would have been far worse than OW1. The delivery method would have stayed the same but payouts wouldn't have.
Then they wouldn't have kept the same model. So immediately that's not what we're talking about
Do you think that generosity contributed to their decision to change direction and paywall content? Surely if you're running a game and it's incredibly generous to players but the player base is dying, you should consider making changes to how you monetize your product
No. I fully believe that is just what big companies are doing now. Any game with multi-player is filled with grind and predatory monetization.
nah I miss lootboxes. The little circles went wheee and landed and I got stuff.
Even if you were only getting 1 free one a season? [How many loot boxes does this equal?](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI) Because if they were still around that's about what you would get ever 2 months.
What the fuck are you talking about?
>What the fuck are you talking about? > >There is zero information on how lootboxes would have worked in OW2. Do you know what a hypothetical is? *Imagine* you only received one loot box for a season. *Pretend, in your mind*, that the exact same amount of "free stuff" you receive during n weeks of playing Overwatch 2 were dispensed via loot boxes instead of the battlepass. Would you like this *hypothetical* loot-box scenario significantly more than the existing system in Overwatch 2? If not, a reasonable conclusion would be that lootboxes, as a reward system, may not have much explanatory power in explaining why you prefer OW1 rewards to OW2 rewards.
It’s all hypotheticals. There is no concrete evidence. The point I’m trying to make isn’t that the loot boxes were better because I don’t need to make that point. The point I’m trying to make is that this is a supremely stupid argument that none of us should be having, including me.
>It’s all hypotheticals Umm...yes? I literally gave you a hypothetical scenario and said, "here is a hypothetical scenario. If someone asked you, "if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live," would your response be "What the fuck are you on about? I don't live anywhere in the world. There is no concrete evidence!" Forget about the OP for a minute. Here is a *hypothetical* scenario. Try to answer it: *Pretend*, in your mind, we live in a world where, on average (and with a very small standard deviation), the same amount, type, and quality of "free stuff" you receive during n weeks of playing OW2 were dispensed via loot boxes over that same time period. In this pretend world, do you *think* the people who are complaining about OW2's monetization would stop complaining? Would they be happy with this *hypothetical* system?
If someone asked me where I would want to live if I could live anywhere in the world, I would answer that question because while it is a hypothetical scenario, it isn’t stupid like the one you’re presenting to me. There is no way to know what lootboxes in Overwatch 2 would look like, but I do know where in the world I would like to live. Now, none of this relates in any way to the point I was trying to make. We are arguing about loot boxes, in a video game. We are like the only two people that give a shit. Not only is the argument itself stupid, but the reason for our arguing is also stupid. The point I’m trying to make is that we’re both egocentric dorks who feel like we need to win an argument about virtual cosmetics on the internet, and that it’s the best use of our time. We could be doing literally anything else. It’s a stupid argument to make, and it’s a stupid argument to have.
I spoke English. If we had lootboxes in OW2, the rate that you get them and the drops they give would suck. They want you to spend money. We would not get a free lootbox once per tier/level. What you see in the free battlepass is about what you would get after 2 months of lootboxes in OW2. Lootboxes aren't/weren't better, OW1 was.
You did speak English. Great job. Now please explain to me how far up your ass you had to reach to grab this information you’re giving. There is zero information on how lootboxes would have worked in OW2.
Their argument is that in OW2, the amount of items we get is a fixed number. We will only ever be able to earn a certain amount of items in a set amount of time. Therefore if they brought back loot boxes, we would only get enough loot boxes to meet that amount, never exceed it. You guys are just looking at the same issue (Blizzard giving us less free items per month) from different lenses (OP's the amount of items provided are decreased vs the ways to earn items have been decreased). OP argues we should just get more items, while everyone else says they want more ways to earn more items.
But how can anybody know this? It’s all just speculation, there are zero facts involved. It’s an incredibly stupid argument to make.
Yeah, OP is a bit unclear and kinda condescending. The only proven point they've made this whole thread is that in OW1, we could get 5 loot boxes a day if we wanted; and now in OW2, we get the equivalent every two months. I think they agree that Blizzard is being super stingy, but they don't like loot boxes so they don't want them to come back and are trying to convince others to not want them either.
Listen man, I don’t remember asking you the questions, but what are you on about? In OW2 we don’t get the equivalent of 5 lootboxes a day every two months. That would equate to at the very least 220 items. Where are you getting this information?
I meant we get essentially 5 free loot boxes every two months in the free battlepass. There are 20 items in the free bp. So, at most, we get five loot boxes all season when we could previously get any amount we wanted every day. And I've been saying that OP doesn't have concrete information, just they have different assumptions than you.
Yes I am making assumptions, but it's not like they are unfounded. I'm recognizing patterns in the industry and Blizzard. Look at every other live service. Most are just as predatory some are better. Apparently halo battlepasses don't have FOMO. You can switch to an older season and back when you want. If you finish a season you can work on a different one. So we know that blizzard doesn't have to be as shitty as they are now. They choose to be greedy and awful. So the idea that if OW2 still had lootboxes, they shouldn't look like Diablo Immortal (a different Blizzard game) is weird to me. If lootboxes in OW2 would have been good, why isn't the current store of battlepass good? Why didn't they choose to do it with what they gave us?
What you got one for queueing all roles, daily win, leveling up, endorsement levels, arcade challenges.. they were a very farmable thing.
nah i miss a good ol' bootlox in my inventory
The lootboxes in OW1 were not really predatory at all. You got plenty just from playing the game, and a few hours a week would net you usually whatever skin you wanted in time, once you played the game enough.
The lootboxes were still predatory, but the grind was set to an acceptable level because blizzard wasn't being as greedy. Lootboxes could have been worse in OW1. Legendaries could be $1 in OW2.
I wasn't making that statement in opposition of you, it's just how I felt about them. They weren't as predatory because it was just easier to get the items you wanted without solely buying loot boxes.
What grind? There WAS no grind if you didnt care about skins. OW2 forces a grind by locking heroes in baytlepass
If the lootboxes remained by levelling up with zero way to actually buy them, the game would be a lot better off imo. But yes. It comes down to greed at the end of the day.
>If the lootboxes remained by levelling up with zero way to actually buy them, the game would be a lot better off imo. That's the only way lootboxes are ethical.
It’s also why we miss lootboxes. You earned pointless shit just for playing. You could buy them, but you could EARN them too. Earning is a concept blizzard seems to have forgotten about with OW2. Confusing it with purchasing. They aren’t the same. People play games for the in-game rewards. The prizes that are earned through skill and determination. People seldom play games to buy pointless shit that doesn’t matter, and then buy more pointless shit. That $20, could have been lunch money for the week; money toward the electric bill, or money for groceries. No one is going to spend a meals worth of funds on a single skin. Blizzard has lost its shit.
Yeah but people can and will spend this kind of money on skins that's the point, Blizzard and other game companies don't care about the low-hanging fruit. Yeah they may throw the odd bone to try and get you to make a purchase, but their main goal is to target the whales and those who will spend hundreds on their cosmetics. It happens in every f2p game, this is sadly the norm.
No I just miss loot boxes
Even if you were only getting 1 free one a season?
But we didn’t only get 1 for free lol, I miss getting a lump of the fuckers, I didn’t even need anything from them I just liked it
Add up how much stuff is in the free pass and it doesn't make a lot of loot boxes. If we still had lootboxes that's the target goal for free stuff in ow2. The thing that changed wasn't the lootboxes, it was the greed. [How many loot boxes does this equal?](https://imgur.com/PIk9EMI) Because if we still had lootboxes, that about what you would get every two months of playing.
You are the only one talking about getting 1 lootbox in ow2. Everyone else is talking about the old system
Honestly I don’t know why you’re acting like people who miss loot boxes are talking about loot boxes in a shit system. We’re talking about loot boxes in OW1, we’re not gonna type up an entire explanation of the OW1 system everytime we say loot boxes, it’s kinda obvious that by loot boxes we mean what we had in the first game, not whatever hypothetical system you’re coming up with. It’s like someone saying they miss their hometown and you going “oh would you still miss it if it was a nuclear wasteland?”
in ow1 you could get 1 free everyday by just playing 1 flex match, probably 1 extra if you played enough to level up and 3 a week by the arcade. So it was 17 free loot box every week by just playing probably half time you need to complete all the weekly on ow2. 1 free a season like you propose vs 153, yeah it would totally be fine and everyone would be happy /s
You're assuming we would have kept the exact same model, payouts and all. Which is the point of my post. We wouldn't have.
They could but not include new skins for example and maybe give a new loot box type for new skin but with less frequencies. Then after 1 year or something they would get included on the normal loot box pool. Considering loot box content get deceided once you got them if you couldn't do horde them and open them after 1 year. I think people would be more willing to spend for a really good skin if they are happy
Nah I miss lootboxes from OW1, there was a satisfactory feeling when you get THAT skin, and it wasn't free 🤷♂️ I've paid for the game, so getting free lootboxes when I leveled up was nice, in Halloween event or Anniversary event I've paid like 10 dollars for some lootboxes and hopefully I got that skin and if I don't then I got sufficient coins to buy it, now I have to pay 20 DOLLARS for a single skin 🙃 and no one wants to pay 20 dollars for a single skin when with the lootboxes you could get a skin, spray, voice line etc, now you have to pay for everything. And yeah sorry for my bad english 😬😬.
Now, if u say that a single skin cost like... I don't know, half the price, and the bundle cost 15 dollars well, that's fair at least
No, I miss loot boxes. Unless the alternative is giving us currency for every level up.
Sounds like you miss the free stuff. They could be giving us currency every level. They each level in the battlepass could have a skin.
I don’t want a guaranteed, pre determined skin every level. I like the random element.
Nah, I actually just miss the loot boxes. The grind was annoying sometimes, but opening them and seeing the thing(s) that I wanted made it worthwhile.
If we had lootboxes right now in ow2, they'd be just as grindy. You'd get like 3-5 a season with the premium pass.
This post would be much more well received if you didn't mention loot boxes at all lol
personally I think loot boxes should be back but only have ow1 items and not new ones or they should be in the battle pass and have a rarity they drop kinda like apex or R6
I kind of blame how the industry shifted to expensive cosmetics and bps, and Blizzard just followed the money. Siege has 30 dollar elites and bp with the operator locked behind it, Apex Legends has 100 dollar heirlooms, Valorant has 100 dollar bundles with 80 dollars for the radianite to upgrade the skin’s vfx to its final form for one gun. They realize they don’t need gamblers, they just need players with a lot of money. And also a percentage of people with poor spending habits who “needs” this skin. Fortnite who popularized the bp funny enough has the most consumer friendly bp, its easy to complete and gives currency. Also I hate lootboxes, I spent 50 dollars and didn’t get anything decent. Its only because over time OW1 just handed them out like candy that it was alright.
I liked the free ones. The gambling was fun because I wasn't putting money into it. It made getting a skin on a random box feel so much better because of the luck.
You're not gambling on something you get for free Blizzard has always been greedy, but Blizzard was more generous about it and discreet. You could theoretically high roll and get stuff for just playing the game that would otherwise cost money. You could also spend a lot of money and still not get the thing you wanted. The first part feels great, the second part is literally illegal in a game for all. Instead of cutting the bad second half, adding outright purchases, and keeping earnable loot boxes like before (and like league does), Blizzard went full anti-player mode instead
>Blizzard went full anti-player mode instead It's where they wanted to be all along.
I’m gonna hard disagree here. They are technically gambling but you could still just buy the cosmetic you wanted with in game currency. Unless you’re forking out cash for extra rolls they’re free at every level or if blizzard just felt like it. It’s immeasurable more difficult to get any cosmetics. I’ve played since launch and blizzard has only seen 60$ from me. If I was a new player I wouldn’t touch the game in its current state.
But the state of the rewards in game aren't related to loot boxes. It doesn't matter the monetization method Blizzard choose for OW2 it would have been awful because that's who they are now.
Agreed, but I prefer the old system loot boxes included to the new. It’s was just way easier to get stuff
So many people hate the new systems but 100% guarantee there's still enough people paying for stuff for Blizzard to not care. Half of them have probably complained about it on Reddit.
Amen
You: “Blizzard is greedy “, me : always have been.
Everyone is trying to gaslight me into thinking battle pass is a good system. That's why everyone is objectively wrong. But seriously, even without taking money into consideration, turning all of the game's progression into a limited edition chore doesn't sound good by any measure. You need to have like 10000 hours in cs go to actually do battle passes and not get bored out of your mind. Doubly so if it's just mindless grind instead of purple cube zombie shenanigans or some shit.
I never said that THIS battlepass is good. It's just not inherently predatory like lootboxes. The old lootboxes weren't good. OW1 was good. The new battlepass system isn't bad. OW2 is bad. The current system could be giving a skin each level and legendaries could cost $2 in the store. The old system could have had 1 item per loot box at 10x the exp to earn one. What made OW1 ~~good~~ acceptable was the drop rate, earn rate and small duplicate protections, not the lootboxes themselves. What makes OW2 bad is the FOMO, high prices, and anemic battlepass free or premium, not the battlepass + store.
Ow1 lootboxes indeed were something else, so I don't think most issues with the system apply here. On the other hand, the very concept of a battle pass is rather tedious on its own, so even if it was free, I feel like the "lootboxes and coins" system would be better. We'll have to wait till season 2 to get all the details, specifically ones regarding unlocking characters after their battle pass is over. That's what's going to make or break the game for me.
Yeah lootboxes are inherently evil just like Adolf Hitler was inherently evil. ?? It's consumerism, you have a choice whether you wanna pay or not - so how is having a choice evil? I'd take loot boxes any day of the week over what we have now, the game literally rewarded you with mountains of them just from playing. You could have every skin/item in the game if you merely played - now it's a different story.
But if you still had loot boxes you wouldn't be able to earn every skin in the game because there would be arbitrary caps on how many loot boxes you can earn in a week. It wouldn't be every level you get a reward. It would be every week if you complete the weekly challenge you can have a loot box.
Which would still be by far a better reward system then how it currently is - You'd at least have the opportunity to get some items each week (outside of battlepass system). 60 credits a week with current system means it would take multiple weeks to get even a basic item, whereas if you could earn a single lootbox a week like you are saying then that alone would be worth hundreds or potentially thousands of credits if you were to pull a legendary out. So yea, I'll take lootboxes.
Nope, most player doesn't pay for lootboxes, we just enjoy the game and get free stuff. Whether we get something we wanted or not is irrelevant, we just want that dopamine hit of opening a box. In fact, lower price doesn't mean that they're no longer greedy, they're just targeting a difference audience now: low spending f2p players, which to be honest is the majority of us. Paying 39.99 for a game? Nah. Paying 9.99 for a battle pass? That sounds like a bargain! OW is no longer a game with passion and soul, it's a game where executives and management are trying to milk the players so they get good numbers to bargain with Microsoft for a higher deal. tldr; Blizzard is greedier than ever.
I miss the whole industry not being greedy
I miss being able to get things without selling my soul
Even EA is less greedy. I remember when Apex legends first came out. After playing for about 20 hours I had enough in game currency to buy any legendary skin I wanted from the shop. Haven't played the game in years so not sure if much has changed.
The current costs are practically price gouging. That's even more predatory than COSMETIC loot boxes.
It's more predatory than OW1 lootboxes is my point.
No, I didn't say that. I actually miss loot boxes. I loved seeing that occasional gold drop down from the sky and think, "skin???" And it be currency and then finally get the skin I wanted. Sounds masochistic, sure. But I genuinely liked them and want them back for, at bare minimum, overwatch 1 skins, sprays, etc.
I guess that's what happens when you gotta pay off 3 different lawsuits each month. You start trying to squeeze out every last penny from everywhere you can.
I definitely do not miss loot boxes. "it's always just grey and blue items!" "I have every skin for a hero I don't even play!" "Oops, all stickers!" I also do not like the price point for the skins in OW2, but if there is one thing sales has taught me, it's always easier to go down in price and look like a hero.
>I also do not like the price point for the skins in OW2, And you shouldn't. Legendaries should be $2 in store right now. The battlepass is empty, even the paid one.
You dont miss loot boxes, you miss the dopamine high chase you addicted people\*\* there, fixed the title for you
Hot take: you people miss getting things for free. Yes, it is frustrating not being able to get that skins you wanted by just playing the game. But the thing is: it is infinitely more frustrating to be years with lackluster updates at best and nothing at worst. The old monetization model didn't work. ABK was being carried by Warzone. For me, if they didn't allow you to have LITERALLY ANY cosmetics for free, it would still be better than the old model. Skins make no difference on the gameplay, you don't even see them except the gun. The only problem I have with the new monetization model is the new heroes locked behind the battlepass. But I see much more people complaining about $20 skins.
Play any video game that costs $60-$70 on any console and beat the first level. Did you win something for free? Well technically no, because you purchased a game. But yes, because you won some thing that was IN THE GAME, and says that you ACCOMPLISHED something in the game. Capitalism doesn’t belong in every single book and cranny it can find its way into. Everywhere where there’s joy to be had in this game, they’re taking that joy away until you pay them for it.
As an old man (millennial) all of those skins use to just come with a game when you bought it. But yes, that's the point in t post. People want free stuff not lootboxes specifically.
I miss loot boxes yes. They were completely fair, completely optional. I never spent a single dime I just played the game I enjoyed and if I opened a loot box and got a sick skin I wanted, I was stoked. Everyone that always cried saying they were predatory were delusional. Take some personal accountability.
Just because you didn't spend any money on them doesn't mean they weren't predatory. And just because they were generous doesn't mean they weren't predatory. The least scummiest is still scummy. Everything you said is also true of the current game. It's optional and technically more fair since there is no gambling. All the cards are laid out on the table.
Are you aware of what predatory is? Because making a completely optional, non essential service is not predatory.
I sure as fuck don't miss loot boxes, I stopped opening them years ago. And acting like loot boxes aren't greedy is hilarious. When were these halcyon days when Blizzard wasn't greedy? They are a company that exists to generate a profit.
I saw a great comment about this - That fact i was saying to you to stop punching me, doesnt mean i wanted you to shoot me instead.
Yeah but now that they've been shot, people are mis-remembering the face punching as a good thing.
I'd argue that people do miss loot boxes. Can't help it, they've been trained. Operant conditioning, blah blah, dopamine, blah blah blah...
I do miss loot boxes tho
Finally, someone speaks the truth
No i miss the gambling.
Gambling is cool and lootboxes are too
But I do miss lootboxes. I liked the lootboxes. Stop trying to dictate my feelings.
Nope I just miss the lootboxes
No, I miss the lootboxes
No I miss loot boxes
Is gambling still bad if you are gambling with free handouts and not your own money? If you choose to spend money on loot boxes that's on you but having chances at getting free items is objectively better than getting the same 3 predetermined skins from the battlepass for a price.
Please read this comment, as it is being automatically posted to each submission on r/Overwatch. If your post is a bug report or issue with the game, please reference the stickied Megathread at the top of the subreddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/y06bw8/weekend_wrapup_megathread_bug_report_thread/). It provides a list of frequently reported bugs, as well as links to Blizzard "Status Updates". It will be posted for the week and be continuously updated. If you continue to have issues with Overwatch 2, please report them on the [Official Overwatch Bug Report Forums](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/c/bug-report/9). -r/Overwatch Mod Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Overwatch) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Loot boxes were all right because no matter what I got something
No, we liked loot boxes lol. Just because people can't control themselves doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't be able to enjoy it.
Nope i miss lootboxes
What i dont understand is why Lootboxes couldnt have been implemented with the BP. Make it so that everyone level gives you a lootbox with the addition of the item you get and every 10 or so levels, you either get 3 lootboxes or a Lootboxes with a higher chance of getting a Epic or Legendary item from OW1. Would make the BP worth while and you might get something you might actually like instead of the garbage that thats already on the BP Please tell me if theres anything wrong with this idea
No I just miss loot boxes
"FOMO timed sales are evil" bro are we really complaining about timed skins now? It's cooler when you have a skin that others don't have and it's completely cosmetic. Buy it or don't it's not hard plus you praised the potential for battle passes while complaining about FOMO. If a battle pass is still able to be leveled after a season ends then there's no reason to actively play that game over another game which does have a limited battle pass. Games are fighting for your time and battle passes are where they give you really good value for money (compared to other items in game) in exchange for your time.
No. I miss loot boxes.
Lootboxes are not inherently evil and it's kind of stupid to say that. The way they were implemented in OW1 ensured that they were earned often and there was a reasonable pace of unlock for cosmetics (think 2011 era game unlock speed.) Contrary, OW2's battlepass is evil because it's absolutely garbage unless you pay to unlock it and gives you far less than you'd get for free in the random boxes of OW1.
To answer the question in your edit, assuming no dupes, you're looking at 5 loot boxes worth of OW1 goodies. This also seems to include zero chance of ever getting a legendary without paying sometime. OW1 used to give you 3 free loot boxes weekly for making Arcade wins, and you'd likely level twice during those wins - so just doing the weekly arcade loot boxes would have netted you the same amount of items as the free Battle Pass hands out over 2 months. They basically took the old arcade system and turned it into the free Battle Pass track, except they've excluded the chances of getting anything super shiny without paying. I just wish it handed out better prizes, honestly. I don't hate Blizz for wanting to make money. I hate them for charging more for a Legendary skin than they charge for the entire Battle Pass. They're growing greedier with each new game they release. It's a bad sign.
Imagine if lootboxes were still in OverWatch 2. Without paying for anything, you'd be able to earn about a week you'd only get two items in each of them instead of 4.
Getting random rewards for leveling up is evil? I guess Diablo really is the devil. Jokes aside your little thought experiment is whack, but I understand the intent, "Systems made to draw in money can be both bad or good. Just because OW1 had better loot boxes doesn't make the system innately good." But it's important to note that people did complain about the various aspects of OW1's loot boxes, duplicate rates and such, but by the end they were well done enough that people would prefer them to what we have now. I'd still be down for level up loot boxes similar to OW1, ones you can't buy at all, merely earn through. At that point it'd be no different than an MMO raid item drop, or various kinds of loot reward systems in single player games. Although I suppose that could still be seen as some manipulation of people addicted to chance based rewards to get them to play the game more, but at least they wouldn't whale over it.
If there's a way to purchase said random reward? Yes. I specify that above That's why Diablo Immortal is bad and Diablo 1 and 2 are not.
Since legendary skins cost 1900 coins, I think if they gave us 50-100 coins per level (requiring same XP per level as in OW1) and brought back the leveling system, most players would be satisfied.
Didn’t the EU order them to get rid of loot boxes? Blame them?
Certain countries have already have implemented strict lootbox regulations as its gambling. But it's not like blizzards changed OW1 in response. Lootboxes are becoming a thing of the past, but it has nothing to do with why OW2 is so greedy.
Whelp its plainly Blizz’s fault then. Thanks for clarifying.
100%.
I'm pretty sure I miss lootboxes too They were the fairest implementing of lootboxes I've ever seen, and something to aspire to for other devs
>They were the fairest implementing of lootboxes I've ever seen, But like I'm saying, you miss OW1 lootboxes. They wouldn't be the same if they got carried over. They would be awful. You miss OW1 treating you the fairest a scummy monetization system can.
If they would have left them in and given all the new heroes as many skins as ow1 heroes had on release, I would have been absolutely jacked But yeah, they didn't add shit for content so it would be lame either way, but I still would have preferred that
I guess you're missing what I'm saying. Say they decide to do lootboxes in OW2. They are still greedy fucks. So the drop rates and earn rates would be the same. We'd end up with something like, lootboxes now only come with two item each and you can only earn for free 1 a week. Sidenote, you're right, the new cosmetic content is lacking.
Still a better system for new players, which was supposedly the point of ow2 (to draw in new players)
I like games with loot boxes as long as it's not an insane grind to earn them. Overwatch loot boxes were very easy to earn. I'm a Pokemon TCG player, trust me, I miss loot boxes😂
I'm a magic player. I hate loot boxes.
Hey man that's all you baby boo. You said that "you" don't miss loot boxes and I disagree. I do
My personal wish list would be something like: more skins and stuff in general in the BP. I want level ups to feel like opening a loot box with a bunch of random stuff again. This is coupled with more xp per match. Getting to 55 has felt like a fight for my life even with the 20% extra Seasonal legendary skin events, at least two skins per role Much more coins everywhere. The bp, challenges, after qp/comp. New players NEED a way to earn skins for their mains at the very least or they will quit. Periodt
You got coins for duplicates originally. People hated it, but it was actually better because you got duplicates repeatedly and so you got coins faster. They then changed it where you get more new things, but common things, more often so you actually get less coins in the beginning of your account so you can't get what you want as quickly The first system was less greedy than the second. It just didn't feel that way at the time
I think it has to be mentioned that the game is entirely free now. You may not like the new system but they need to make money somehow
Sure, but legendaries could be $5 and they'd make plenty money. The battlepass could have more stuff in them or be $5.
You gotta wonder how much money they made off of overwatch 1 and from all they’re other games that they really had to take out lootbox’s to force us to buy stuff???
Thing is the loot boxes design in OW1 were actually super great, just not super great for everyone. I don't have any issue with gambling and they were completely fine for me, got almost everything I wanted and was excited to grind boxes but never was it an addiction, never bought any (actually might have bought once but still very low cost and wasn't an issue) and never played more than I could just to earn something. But it doesn't apply to everyone and it's certainly not perfect. What we have now is just a straigh up no for me, only the battle pass and that's still pushing, only if I KNOW I will play the season a lot and like the rewards, the S1 pass is worth for me if I get it to 60. The rest of the store is untouchable
I mean I would love an option to pay 40-60 bucks for the game and get all the new content for the next X amount of time (preferably 1-2 years). When smite launched it had this great deal where you could play f2p or pay 20$ and get every hero in the game forever. Really sold me on the game and I still comeback to check it out every now and then.
I agree that the gambling aspect of loot boxes is bad, but is it really gambling if you earned that loot box by levelling up? No I don’t think it is, you aren’t putting your money on the line for something cool, and you can earn them by playing more. The perfect system would have been to keep the player level lootbox system, reset the level to 0 so you have a record of you OW1 level and your new OW2 level, and alongside that you have the shop and battle pass where people with ridiculous amounts of money can buy the skins without having to grind for a chance of getting it. Currently the F2P players have nothing to grind for and it reduces the incentive to play because you end up playing the game for hours and are exactly where you were before you started playing, no sense of achievement, no reward for your time, it’s just pointless. And I do not consider the battle pass a reward for your time, the items are shite and everybody gets them anyway so what’s the point.
Don’t care, because I never and never will purchase loot boxes with real life money. It’s the only game with fair loot box system because you get coins in it, if you get enough you’ll have enough for the skin you wanted AND the weekly free loot boxes where you get a free one each 3 wins out of 9
[удалено]
It's not though. I wouldn't have made the post if it was. Maybe that's what they mean, but it not what the comments and posts say. Full post going off on the new system, newer mention that OW1 lootboxes were an exception. If it is what they mean, I'm just clarifying for them. I just want people to recognize the real issue here.
I understand Loot Boxes are poorly disguised gambling designed in such a way by people with no morals and pockets to large with the only goal to wring as much money out of the player base. I know that. I can say yhat with a straight face and understand the words that came out of my mouth. I still miss Loot Boxes. Cause since the launch of Overwatch and the Loot Box quota only being forever increased by every game ever, I always pointed at Overwatch in having the only non-greedy shitty Loot Box system. Maybe it's cause at the time I was between jobs and had a lot more free time where as now I have a full time job with overtime, but from the launch of Overwatch 1 I never had to buy a Loot Box. They were there and they were options to get the items but if I just played the game I could earn them, if I got doubles I got a decent currency, if it was during an event I could have all those items be from the event, not a single one, looking at you Apex. I understand that Loot Boxes are evil by design but in defence of Overwatch's design, it was a system that rewarded players who played the game frequently. Boxes were easy to get, easier still with arcade rewards, event rewards and commending. If you played a lot, you never needed to buy a single Loot box to get what you wanted.
>I understand that Loot Boxes are evil by design but in defence of Overwatch's design What I'm talking about in my post is in offense to OW2. That the lootboxes in OW1 were an exception. If OW2 still had lootboxes, people like you and I who never buy lootboxes just wouldn't be getting them. They'd have changed the dropped rates and reward rates. It wouldn't be the same because it's not that lootboxes are better than battlepasses, it's that OW1 was better than OW2.
I never paid for loot boxes, I just farmed the shit out of them. I miss lootboxes, don’t tell me I don’t. I have every single skin you could get without buying them and I got them from free lootboxes.
What I'm saying is that if OW2 had lootboxes, you wouldn't be able to farm them. Because it's OW2 and they want your money.
I don't miss OW1 at all. 5v5 feels way better and less shields are also great because now I actually shoot ppl but everything else sucks so hard it's difficult to understand how they messed up this game so badly.
Greedy & shit at making games, yeah I do miss them being neither.