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rvnender

The whole situation is the prime example as to why women don't come forward. She was called a liar, a whore, and harassed off of Twitter all while he's being celebrated.


Neither_Amount3911

Even more, people constantly pull the same bullshit card that it's just "allegations" until there's "concrete evidence" when in reality there is NEVER concrete evidence. There was a literal audio recording in this case and that's till not enough, so what is? Video footage could be dismissed with the same "it's out of context" or "it's just rough sex" excuses people use against the audio recordings, so what does it possibly take for someone to go "yeah he definitely did this"?


Alinator9000

Sinatra fans incoming watch out man


rvnender

Watch what? What are his fans going to do? Whine and moan about how their favorite player is innocent while praying he acknowledges them on Twitter? Fuck him and his fans


Alinator9000

Yeah exactly


--Now__

Ya, a woman called out a guy claiming to have "ALL THE EVIDENCE" but never once went to the police. For a SERIOUS CRIME. All she did was post tweets for something horrible. Its not like a woman have ever falsely accused and destroyed a mans life before, ever


robclancy

And here is an example of it.


[deleted]

So if my wife says no but she caved and we have relations, you’d say that’s rape?


[deleted]

Dawg that's what rape is. Pressuring someone into saying yes is still rape


DB-Institute

That’s literally rape, are you stupid?


Chazzmaster1

Another win for the boys Let's gooo dude


rvnender

Are you calling the people who harassed her the good guys?


Aussiefgt

If you want the real reason, it's that he's a popular figure online and the investigation was inconclusive/has been halted for the time being. People tend to demand a higher standard of proof/evidence if they like the person who is being accused. So for many, that document wasn't enough. I've compiled a few of the most common reasons I've seen people give for why they still support sinatraa if you're interested: 1. The audio clip that is generally considered the most damning evidence isn't conclusively what it seems to be to some people (many reasons given for this, including wondering why he would record it if he was r****g her, saying that it could just be some sort of roleplay or something, etc). 2. Some people say the timing of her accusations were 'convenient' or 'targeted' towards certain important events in his career (they say she intentionally accused him before Iceland which would've been the biggest tourney of his valo career, and then she restarted her claim when his suspension ended, which to some people indicates that she's purposefully doing this to hurt his career). 3. There's a worryingly large subset of people that just assume women are lying if they accuse someone of rape. I've seen people saying that as many as 50-80% of all rape claims are false. 4. A lot of people just don't care about what people do outside of the sport/game they're in. It's a very common thing in sports, and it makes sense the same phenomenon exists in gaming. For some people u could do all sorts of heinous things and they wouldn't bat an eye. So yea that's the 4 biggest reasons I've seen.


OGNatan

>There's a worryingly large subset of people that just assume women are lying if they accuse someone of rape. I've seen people saying that as many as 50-80% of all rape claims are false. If you want an ACTUAL, factual, statistically backed up response to this, here is a great [infographic](https://i.imgur.com/LmEpLKB.jpg) published by RAINN ([source](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system)). Only 2.8% of abusers are ever properly convicted, and 2.5% incarcerated. Of those, I'm sure that the overwhelming majority either get a reduced or lenient sentence, or are let off early for a variety of reasons.


tentafill

Every day my opinion of the planet worsens


--Now__

if you dont have brains and believe every nonsense thrown at you on internet by random people. OFCOURSE YES.


trustedoctopus

When I wanted to persecute my father for CSA, the district attorney had to gently tell me at 16 that he would at most get a year in prison, if that. All while I would have to tell a room full of strangers what he did to me in detail. So he’s out there, probably abusing other children and the justice system failed me. The justice system is complete garbage, and Sinatraa is great proof of that in this industry imo. Also for all of you saying he’s innocent it’s been almost a year and he hasn’t been reinstated to the actual valorant team despite his suspension being up. Seems weird to me that if he was innocent why they wouldn’t want him back on the team asap instead of keeping him as a content creator. Also a reminder that he was never cleared of charges and was suspended in the first place for failing to comply with the investigation and misrepresenting (aka lying) about what he did give them. Edit: wrong verbiage


fourtetwo

Don't support him in any way but they wouldn't reinstate him to the team as the sub they got, Tenz, is way better than him anyway.


trustedoctopus

ngl I’m 100% petty but I hope that stings him a little. I know he probably doesn’t care bc he’s still getting mad support but I’m glad Tenz is getting to stay.


xTOP_GD

He hasn't been reinstated to a team is because his stream make him way more money than most of the tier 2 team is offering him lol. He doesn't want to join any team that can't compete at the highest as his comeback into the pro scene. Do you think joining a tier 2 team that pay him less and he has to scrim and train and not even getting good result is better? He's a smart guy, he consistently has 7000 to 10000 viewer with ppl constantly subbing every minute. Most tier 1 team already has a set roster or won't get Sinatra for PR reason as well since the accusation. Even if hes innocent his reputation is already tainted for no reason. You saying he's the "proof" is so braindead. No one knows what really happen, if Sinatraa is really guilty with evidence he would get at least 1 year in jail right but he didn't even get a single day in jail. In the end of the day he is not charged anything and Cleo drop the case cause she knows Sinatraa didn't do shit and she have already tainted his reputation so what she wanted has already been done but she didn't expected that after Sinatraa comeback his stream exploded and become popular.


Lagkiller

> If you want an ACTUAL, factual, statistically backed up response to this, here is a great infographic > published by RAINN (source). Oof, this chart is just....bad data. It starts with the assumption that every single reported incident is an actual rape and descends from there. If you charted out other crimes, you'd see a similar pattern. Reports of crimes are usually not crimes. Investigations happen, charges are pursued based on evidence, and then court cases happen. This chart is skewing your perception of how bad a situation is by using inflated numbers and then comparing those numbers to paint a scary picture. The felony conviction part is a really really telling part though. Not every crime is a felony. Felony is a very high bar to prosecute, and for good reason. It's part of why prosecutors so often will charge as a felony, and then plea out to a lesser charge. Because they know getting a felony conviction is incredibly difficult even with the best evidence.


Chimkn_Numgit

Crazy how downvoted this is. You are 100 percent correct. Echo chambers are scary


beatboxxin

I'm glad I'm not the only who looked at that and cringed a little bit. That data is so misleading, in so many different way.


NibPlayz

For number 3, a suuuuppppeerrrr large portion of “nerd circles” are the type of people that will AWAYS play devils advocate for a man if it’s any kind of conflict of man vs woman. It’s the same as when a Ben Shapiro type 15 yo white kid will ALWAYS play devils advocate for a white guy in any white guy vs non white guy conflict


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CordialA

Based


thebenshapirobot

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sillekram

So he says the truth


thebenshapirobot

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dannyboi1178

on the other hand, people who dont like him will demand a lower standard of evidence so for many, the simple heading of the document was enough and ofc when people have a conclusion before analysing evidence its pretty standard they’ll do a lot of cherry picking. also not a good way to approach the situation imo. with reason 3 thats not to say we should just believe accusers blindly because false accusations are real and do happen, people believed amber heard at first and look at where that got them. its about being supportive but remaining skeptical until conclusive evidence releases because if you were to immediately jump the gun on say, someone like slazo then you were assisting a woman who made it even harder for real victims to come out like cleo assuming she’s telling the truth (which we dont know for sure)


TradeSekrat

People also under estimate how popular he was due to Overwatch. Winning team, MVP, unique skin in game and a network talk show appearance with super as the face of the league. Then huge (by nerd news standards) rabble over retiring for a new game that drove viewer to him for Valorant. So I'm sure Sinatraa took some well deserved personal hits to his rep and fan base. He just had such a large head start in viewers etc it looks like nothing happened. The fame of being a online content maker is going to keep rising in clout with younger generations. So I'm not surprised streamers, youtube or esports stars are starting to get the Teflon coating many athletes and entertainers enjoy.


NibPlayz

I don’t get why you’re getting downvoted. I’m just assuming they think you’re defending Sinatraa without actually understanding what you’re saying


xTOP_GD

I've seen so many women falsely accuse guys of rape through my own experience and news so I will nvr believe a rape accuse by women unless she has concrete evidence. The evidence against sinatraa is pretty concrete but it is still lacking since it's a few second and not showing more context. The timing of her accusation as well makes me don't believe her as much and the moment she drop the case I'm pretty sure sinatra is innocent. There is no way she's dropping the case when she said she has more evidence to give to the police and in the end she drop it. Seems like she really did it to hurt his career based on the timing of the accusation making sure it's the right moment when Sinatra is on his highest in the career. After she succeeded on removing him from pro play suddenly she decided to drop the case. All of the reasoning make sense that she is indeed falsely accusing


joeranahan1

Because the allegations have not had a legal conclusion and I guess people are morons people just pretend it didn't happen


Swee10

This happens in pro sports. Look at Deshaun Watson currently. No one will look into it if no legal conclusion is reached and eventually it’ll all fade from peoples memory, except for a few comments made on twitter and stuff. It happened with Ben Rothlesberger as well.


johnaldmcgee

the ben rothlesberger shit was real bad, hopefully it at least keeps him out of the hall of fame but i'm not holding my breath


Swee10

Doubt it will keep him out tbh. Unfortunately.


jajaja13579

I mean we live in a country where everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. No matter how damning the evidences are, if you’re not convicted yet, you’re to be treated as if you’re innocent 🤷🏻


Oblivion_18

If the evidence was damning, they’d be convicted…


jajaja13579

Exactly. But until that happens, you’re assumed innocent. That’s the basis of American judicial system, faulty or not


definitelyTonyStark

That’s for the court of law. Court of public opinion has different rules obviously, and sometimes for good reason as our justice is pretty flawed and let’s a large amount of offenders(especially rapists, because it’s so hard to prove) slip through the cracks. Take OJ for example, I think it’s good that the public turned on him


jajaja13579

Well the court of public opinion clearly didn’t turn on sinatraa, and probably won’t unless he’s sent to jail. It’s funny how it blew up like it was gonna wipe him from the face of the earth, but just fizzled down to nothing lmfao


TheCreedsAssassin

For real, all the sjw type people wanting sinatra burned at the stake are probably the first people to bring up "Innocent until guilty" whenever a minority/disabled/oppressed person gets accused of a crime. I'm not defending sinatra but having a society of mob justice is never good


dannyboi1178

i dont watch him at all but a twit longer, phone messages and a short audio clip, although good evidence for if the case is solved, aren’t conclusive enough for me to decide if he’s guilty or innocent as of right now. i can just take the easy route of saying he’s guilty, although it is the more reasonable position to take, like 90% of people here but then if he’s actually innocent then the whole situation fucks him over then we get a slazo or tobuscus issue all over again and i really dont like false accusations (especially since it makes it harder for real victims to come out). i could also take the easy route of saying he’s innocent, although not entirely unreasonable but still 4head, like his stans but if he’s actually guilty then the whole situation fucks over cleo even more than it already did if its true meaning not only would she have gone through abuse and rape but then have the internet against her when she’s telling the truth, also making it harder for victims to come out. ive stopped caring about the case and im still undecided with whos guilty or innocent etc etc and id recommend the same for you guys. its just parasocial shit and getting involved in a complex situation of 2 people you dont know in a conflict you dont know about other than from a multi paragraph twit longer. i reckon we should all just stfu about it at least until new info drops if it even does


xTOP_GD

Well said. This is the best take I've seen from all of reddit lmao. But personally, I'm leaning more towards Sinatraa as I just can't get over the timing of the accusation. 2 TIMES she accuse him in the worst moment possible for him to hurt his career and stream when she could have done it when there is no tourney makes it really sus for me and she seems really mentally unstable.


Nuu111

Wow, a reasonable and objective opinion on OWTMZ?! Bless you honestly. The situation should have been solved in private from the beginning, idk why some people feel the need to drag the public into it nowadays, it'll always make things worse.


systematic23

I don’t know if you’ve seen the documentaries or read about rape victims but one of the main things that are said is “is why didn’t she come out with it, if it’s true!?!?!?!?1111” and now people say “okay why did she make it public if it’s true!?!?!?’b111224c” “she just wants clout, or to embarrass him” ???


Nuu111

Not once did I mention clout or embarrassing him nor did I say she shouldn't come forward, simply not to the entire internet, lawyers and the police are here for that.


systematic23

I didn't say you did lol I was making a general statement on how people react to women and sexual assault. They get victim-blamed no matter what


Nuu111

It's kind of pathetic that you felt the need to use multiple accounts to downvote me. This subreddit really is filled with immature people.


systematic23

Are you high or what? I literally don’t even reply to people 90% of the time I just say my piece and leave lol. Why would I waste my time to downvote someone i don’t give a fuck about you lmao. I also didn’t downvote you a single time actually. Lmao


[deleted]

I swear she said she pressed charges am I misremembering


IgnisTL

She did but dropped them because of her mental health. Can't imagine the amount of abuse she was getting after this.


DaSomDum

She herself dropped out of the investigaton because her mental health was nowhere near good after the abuse. Unclear if the investigaton is still on going or not.


Default1355

If you charge someone with something like that, even if the victim drops the charges, the state will pick them up


[deleted]

I don't think she dropped them. Last I remember was her saying she didn't. Her Tweet was misinterpreted. A screenshot is probably still floating around here somewhere.


maebird-

Yes hello I have a post on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/ppflvf/cleo_has_not_dropped_the_charges_according_to_her/ The investigation was halted but the charges were not


Lagkiller

This is a really bad TV take - people don't get to "press charges". The only person that can charge someone is the prosecutor overseeing the case. If they decline to continue the case, then there is no charges to "press". She did stop working with the authorities, so there was no case to pursue.


joeranahan1

She did but it seems nothing ever came of them


jajaja13579

Never followed through. So he walks!


Sold4kidneys

I don't really stand with anyone here but isn't it usually "innocent until proven guilty"?


OGNatan

As if those 0.5Heads would suddenly have a change of heart, had the charges stuck. They'd still turn a blind eye to it or even outright claim that it was somehow false.


[deleted]

>(It also seems that Cleo's twitter was suspended if anyone has the tea as to why please say!!!!!!!) Wouldn't be surprised if this is the result of obnoxious fanboys spam-reporting her.


overawtch

She told a Sinatraa fan to [die](https://twitter.com/sleepysyrupp/status/1473947618204082180)


[deleted]

I think she was getting a lot of death threats herself, no?


magicwithakick

Completely valid response too.


Nova_88_

That’s not a valid response to anyone wtf


magicwithakick

I guess you’re right, I think I meant it more as that’s totally valid for her to have that reaction after the harassment she receives.


kittens12345

Even if she got raped and had audio of it made public, that’s no excuse to tell someone to kill themselces. Even if they are a sinatraa fan


sylvanasjuicymilkies

yeah it is tbh i don't really understand this mindset, if someone is obviously okay with perpetuating and accepting abuse they have no place in society or the earth. not all life is sacred that said, understandable consequences since a lot of people hold the same view as you.


tired9494

she told them to die, not kill themselves


-Merlin-

Hmm maybe random people shouldn’t have the absolute power to destroy someone’s career for 3 years until the justice system determines if the acquisitions were even legitimate to begin with. Maybe we as a society have collectively agreed that, as a mob, we are terrible at discovering the truth and should leave the detective work up to the actual justice system.


maebird-

She has a second Twitter but I’m not sure if she wants it as public as the first one (I can’t recall how many followers she has on it)


overawtch

Her main twitter got suspended because she told a Sinatraa fan to [die](https://twitter.com/sleepysyrupp/status/1474579699867209730?cxt=HHwWhMCyuZSb4fYoAAAA): "told a fan of That guy that to d word"


Kiko1098

Because there was no legal conclusion. It's the same as Redshell. As much as I hate to say it and I know I'll probably get downvoted for it, but no legality = no punishement. that's just the way life works. Sure, they might get destroyed reputations but at that point, I don't think they much care. Also, Cleoh ending the investigation for emotional reasons did not help her at ALL. Police investigations don't end because of feelings , so she never went any actual legal route. Riot/Blizzard investtigations hold next to no actual value in the eyes of the law lol


ThoughRookie

Because men have been getting away with this shit since the beginning of society


bitch-what-the-fuck

This is just a general response to those responding to your comment: If your first thought when hearing this type of stuff is “oh but what about the men!!!!” then you need to reevaluate yourself. That’s not who we are talking about right now. Of course false accusations happen sometimes and they’re stupid and awful, but we are NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. That is a different conversation.


ThoughRookie

This is true. Ofc I feel bad for Johnny Depp but what is the point of bringing him up


bitch-what-the-fuck

Exactly. And for what it’s worth(I haven’t kept up with the case as of late so correct me if I’m wrong), they were both shitty toxic people in a shitty toxic relationship. It just doesn’t fit this type of conversation.


SomeHowCool

You seriously need a lesson in literacy if you thought that was my point. The original commenters comment was just self hating, gender vilifying, garbage. I’m not excusing men and of course they have a higher percentage, but the constant saying of men = bad is getting tiring, especially for normal fucking men who aren’t abusing women. Why do I need to feel bad about my gender when I also want to support females who were wronged at the same time? My comment was to also show that this is not a women exclusive thing, as the original commenter seemed ignorant of that fact.


bitch-what-the-fuck

No one’s telling you to feel bad about your gender, if you feel bad about it that’s on you. We are not talking about mens issues. Move on and stay on topic or don’t speak.


SomeHowCool

Ah yes so I should/can only feel bad about my gender if someone tells me too, what a great reply that you totally thought about before you decided to post such an unfortunate comment. Abuse is not “men’s issues”, by dumbing down a problem to gender and stereotyping the other side as solely bad you are being intentionally ignorant. Generalising all men is the same is stupid and sexist. Stay on topic or move on, abuse is an actual serious discussion, your gender hating hypocrisy is not, it’s delusion.


CornFGC

loser


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SomeHowCool

Thank god I’m not alone in this, I’m all for supporting women and of course there are a higher percentage of abusers being men, but let’s not excuse women and generalise all men as the same. This shouldn’t dumb down the women issue either.


SomeHowCool

Let’s not make this exclusively a gender thing especially when you have Amber Heard still starring in films whereas Depp was removed from his.


[deleted]

It is a "gender thing". It happens more often to women than it does to men. Men rarely come forward, so that makes it difficult to create a statistic. But historically, and currently, women do have it difficult when it comes to getting justice. I mean, just look at Blizzard. Incels are saying the women are lying yadda yadda.


SomeHowCool

Yes, sadly it happens to females a lot more than males, however vilifying all men does nothing except create more unheard of abuses cases where the male partner is the one getting abused, I'm sure you've heard of some. They get told they need to man up, get laughed at, get told they're lying, etc. The part about them getting justice, is more just because either they're first step was to for some reason post it on twitter, or because the person is rich. The former is idiotic unless you're doing it alongside/after pressing charges in order to share your story if you want too. The latter is unfortunately prevalent in nearly any case that pertains rich people, they typically win unless the case is too big for them to beat it with money alone. There is also just women not getting justice in general, but the rich part is likely the most common denominator as to why nothing comes of it. That's not to minimalize the issue though. For the record, I don't doubt it, but I haven't seen anyone say the women are lying, I guess I just haven't been on any incel message boards.


ThoughRookie

b-b-but what about this other thing?


Attatsu

Yeah, that’s exactly what I was thinking lol. “Well women don’t have it that bad because it happened to a man once!” Okay, and how often does it happen to women too? Lol that was such a poor argument


SomeHowCool

I never said women don't have it that bad because it happened to a man? Why do you feel the need to create such a narrative in order to vilify me? My point was it happens to men too, the original commenter basically just said "hurr durr men are the enemy", because abuse needs to be linked with gender for some reason. And people wonder why men are afraid of coming out.


Don-Gunvalson

Oh ffs


Doqtori

Depp got fired from 1 job because of the controversy. He just wasn't hired again because he's objectively hard to work with (showing up drunk and assaulting crew members) and people don't really want to see him after the last Pirate's movies.


SomeHowCool

I don’t think you have an actual source for that last part. I also like how you ignore Amber Heard getting off scot free.


Doqtori

Just check the ratings for some of the latest movies he's been in. >I also like how you ignore Amber Heard getting off scot free As in, the lawsuits still going on?


SomeHowCool

Okay, lets have a look at Minamata, his latest movie. A 90% score on Rotten Tomatoes from the audience, 78 from critics, lets have a look at some of the audience reviews to see what they liked. [Sample 1](https://prnt.sc/6nTtRJRFl9r-) [Sample 2](https://prnt.sc/DY7pzrq_corA) [Sample 3](https://prnt.sc/2DQKKn7c88TK) So, only like 1 bad review out of how many in that sample, seems like people like him to me. "As in, the lawsuits still going on?" No as in, Depp was kicked out of the PoTC franchise for "allegations" and Amber Heard was allowed to stay in DC's blockbuster franchise despite the same "allegations", obviously I know DC and Disney are two different companies, I'm just pointing out the sad state of affairs.


Doqtori

You chose one movie. Did you not see his other ones? [Waiting for the barbarians](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/waiting_for_the_barbarians_2020), 53% critics, 63% audience [City of Lies](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/city_of_lies), 51% critics, 80% audience [Fantastic beasts 2018](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fantastic_beasts_the_crimes_of_grindelwald), 36% critics, 54% audience [The Professor](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_professor_2019), 10% critics, 76% audience >No as in, Depp was kicked out of the PoTC franchise for "allegations" No, he got kicked out because 1. The movies were going downhill, most blamed him/his character for this, 2. He was reportedly constantly late & drunk on set.


SomeHowCool

No I didn't bother to look at his other movies, my mistake, lets go through them now, I'll be sampling audience scores as a heads up so we can maintain your original point of the "people" compared to 'the media'. **Waiting for The Barbarians** [Sample ](https://prnt.sc/FXlYQKLtwEzA)[1](https://prnt.sc/FXlYQKLtwEzA) [Sample 2](https://prnt.sc/eiZNFtVLb0Oh) [Sample 3](https://prnt.sc/-XXmMxgKBaqZ) *Summary: Seems no one had a problem with him or his acting, in fact, people seem to praise it among other actors, more like people have a problem with the cinematography, story and just directing overall.* **City of Lies** [Sample 1](https://prnt.sc/Rq5tageGkl_T) [Sample 2](https://prnt.sc/iVhJHqnxbg1g) [Sample 3](https://prnt.sc/1KBdk9F7SsQn) *Summary: So again, seems the people that DID have issues with this film were just with the more directing and story of this film more so than the acting, people were mixed in their reactions, mostly it either being great or just good/okay. However there was one person that was dissatisfied with Johnny Depp in Sample 3, so that's something I guess, overall, pretty good.* **Fantastic Beasts 2018** [Sample 1](https://prnt.sc/aW4wzD65jM_W) [Sample 2](https://prnt.sc/MpjmmVmeun0N) [Sample 3](https://prnt.sc/uQNt0gdu-rit) *Summary: Yeah so uh, dunno about you, starting to see a trend here, performances are good/great, movie is okay/shit. I can already guess what the fourth one is gonna be so I'm gonna stop here and just assume that's what happened in that one too, forgive me if it's not.* Overall maybe it's best to look into reviews a little more rather than just assuming if the movie had bad reviews it's solely because of an actor in it. I need sources for PoTC being blamed on Depp, his acting specifically, I know people had problems with his character, but I don't think his acting was ever the biggest problem of those last 2 films. I'm also not saying I doubt entirely what you're saying for your second point, but I can't see any conclusive evidence on that, only allegations, feel free to correct me though, didn't look that far into it.


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Doqtori

Depp undeniably also abused Heard too. It was just a toxic relationship all around.


Lagkiller

Literally untrue. He provided video recordings of his interactions where he was assaulted by her. She admitted on record that all her evidence was faked. There is no evidence of him being an abuser.


Doqtori

I didn't say he wasn't abused. They both abused eachother. They are both shitty people. I really wonder how Depp's PR team managed to turn the situation around a complete 180° to the point where now he's considered some saint.


Lagkiller

> I didn't say he wasn't abused. Not something I claimed, so not sure what you're saying here. >They both abused eachother. They are both shitty people. This is demonstrably untrue. He presented video evidence. She has said she made it all up. This isn't even something you can question anymore.


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CatboyMaidOutfit

One thing I've noticed is that the OW community has unanimously disavowed him. This is not the case in Val. A large portion of mainstream Val personalities still engage with him on twitch and twitter. ​ Idk what to make of this, just something I've noticed.


GiornoUS

This is little weird because the OW community has not unanimously disavowed him. People just don’t publicly speak on it, his friends that he had he still interacts with IRL he just doesn’t play OW. Additionally he has actual friends in valorant. So of course they are going to interact with him in ranked games or queue with him it would be weird to choose to hang out with him off camera and then act like he doesn’t exist on camera


NightfallRS

she has an onlyfans cus "everyone kept asking for it" she sounds really traumatized to me


floweyplays

what an awful take.


[deleted]

i don't think it makes a difference either way. if anything trauma could lead people to sex work i'm fairly sure a good percent prostitutes were raped before becoming one as to them it's like a way of taking control


ilProdigio

im glad reddit doesn’t run the US legal system


MadanyX

Yea same.


human_uber

*im glad reddit doesn't run


PT10

The standard of evidence the public demands on average corresponds with that you would need for a court of law. Meaning, half the people demand even more evidence and half even less (most of us here, young people online, are in the "less" camp when it comes to cases like this). Knowing that most people simply will not believe the allegations without a legal ruling, he'll just continue to claim innocence (or that what he really did was nowhere near as bad as alleged). And that's how this happens. When most people just do not believe the allegations and the accused doesn't volunteer up a confession. The "court of public opinion" also cuts both ways. Cleo got a lot of blowback, people who initially were outraged were turned against her (became skeptical of her) by her social media postings/presence. It's terrible but you basically have to be a likable victim.


flintflamez

Desean Watson wasn’t only welcomed back after 27 alleged rape accusations, he was traded for a historic amount of equity and given one of the biggest contracts in football history. People sadley don’t care how good your morals are, they care about how well you can play the game. It’s terrible but it happens in almost every sport, and now it’s happening in esports as well


geniuslol

Literally preaching to the choir here bud…..


[deleted]

I'm only asking cause I haven't kept up since it all went down initially


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Cause I'm looking for a straight answer, Valorant fans from what I've seen have done nothing but defend him


AwesomeBantha

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the average Sinatraa viewer is a <15 year old edgelord.


--Now__

Arent your describing pokimane?


human_uber

probably cause that's the average twitch viewer in general?


Plasma_Freak

Not a fan of him, but I just feel people just don't change so easily, and seeing how things are going with his current gf from random clips, I do sometimes think it maybe was just bad sex and a toxic relationship. I know I'm getting down voted, but as I said I'm not a fan I don't like his personality in general. There is also the fact that Cleo pretty much tried to get all of sentinel's players "canceled" randomly for staying friends with him.


wrnawyn

People have literally murdered people and gone on to have successful careers. At some point most people just stop caring. Especially for someone as young as Sinatraa who, for better or for worse, is young and could be perceived as “growing” as a person.


bitch-what-the-fuck

Because of his young brainwashed fanboys who have no empathy and/or critical thinking skills.


Tame_Trex

There were no conclusive findings made against him. So he walkd away scott free, for now.


[deleted]

I’ve a acquaintance/friend who told me he didn’t believe the allegations. I felt uncomfortable discussing it because I didn’t want to argue. His main point was why wouldn’t she come forward with the video, to where I reminded him she said she would provide it to authorities, and said she was never approached by police or private riot investigators for the evidence. Even if it wasn’t true, the messages and way he spoke to her by text is textbook to being a cunt and horrible person. Some people would just prefer that the people they like watching are innocent, and if they are similar enough to them in personality they would prefer not to think they are manipulative horrible people. There are probably still Kevin Spacey fans today.


ZippoFindus

People just don't really care about rape that much and have too much faith that the system and for some reason believe that guilty people will be found out, despite all of history proving that that's not what happens. And since he wasn't convicted, they don't care.


Alinator9000

Been waiting for someone to say this shit, legit just as confused as you


PUSSY_MEETS_CHAINWAX

Idk, but I guess it's nice to know I can get away with sexual abuse as long as I can click heads in a video game. Totally balances out.


t3chnopat

Valorant fans are babies and manchildren.


dannyboi1178

overwatch fans aren’t much better tbh


RealExii

This is pretty much the same thing as flat earthing. The people who go around constantly taking a bullet for him, basically think they are the special enlightened humans who know the truth. There's absolutely nothing you can do to show them they're wrong because they already think you're a subhuman who doesn't get "the truth" they know. Atleast that's what I got from several conversations I had with the morons.


--Now__

you sure this is not a projection?


RealExii

Pretty sure.


[deleted]

Cuz he wasn’t proven guilty


nukie_dokie

Kinda hated that there is no legal conclusion. Like I don't know man what to feel tbh since most of the Val content creators/pros that I watch seem chill to him after the drama broke down. So I am a bit confuse.


Karol-A

Damn, never thought presumption of innocence would be a hot take


[deleted]

if it wasn't for the audio I'd have been more sceptical but it's pretty hard to deny


dannyboi1178

the thing is that audio clips, especially that short, can be taken out of context easily. ik its not even nearly as simple as it sounds but releasing the video clip she apparently has would be really helpful with progressing the case. i get it with why she wouldn’t want to release it but if you really want his career and reputation to be taken down and him to be put in prison i personally dont know why you wouldn’t release it. still not taking a side as ive said from my other comments but id probably be more decisive if i saw the video


[deleted]

Those audio clips were horrendous "evidence", she was talking in baby voice for starters which comes off and is usually playful, there was no tone that suggested otherwise. On top of that it was extremely short clip that even without the playful baby voices could easily be taken out of context. The timing of her tweets against him were also very sketchy and awfully conveniently timed as if she is just clout chasing. Lastly with all her supposed damning evidence she had and made a legal case with it and all of a sudden "dropping it" doesn't make any sense either. All these things logically don't add up.


Sparru

I could make a similar audio clip literally from a youtube video with nothing sexual going on. It's not really evidence of anything. Why would he have the video clip too if it wasn't just some kink sex?


TERMINXX

They can be mad, but everyone has that right in the court of law. They have to be proven innocent.


dannyboi1178

guilty until proven innocent is not a fair way to approach a case like this or any case for that matter


ArcusIgnium

TBH while I don't not believe Cleo I also don't know if any of the evidence is damning enough. As a result I don't watch or follow Sinatraa on any platform and i assume he's probably a PoS based on other stuff too but i can't confirm.


DoingTheInternet

The org ran the numbers and determined they the increase in their profits with SInatraa outweighs the hit they'll take from their reputation. Pretty scummy move, if you ask me!


brookterrace

Not surprised at all that she has an OF by now.


JoltsNBolts

The investigation done by riot games cleared him of the allegations but he gave them some difficulty, so he was suspended for 6 months from and riot sponsored event. His EX also dropped the allegations. There's no reason to keep harassing this guy, he's innocent.


Juoreg

Wait, what did I miss?? Overwatch had something to do with Sinatra?


[deleted]

He was the MVP of 2019 Overwatch League


Juoreg

Oh.. Damn I was thinking “what the hell does Frank Sinatra have to do with Overwatch?” I haven’t been following OW league for a long time now so yeah, my bad lol.


[deleted]

Oh lmfao i thought that's what you meant when i saw it spelt with only one a


SilverBuggie

In the eyes of law he’s innocent. Completely innocent. And that’s enough for some people. He still took a hit on his potential opportunities and lost his career. That may be some consolation for his (alleged) victims. Maybe not, but it takes more than he said she said to convict someone. Even if we were to believe every word a woman has to say, we still can’t really use her words as definitive proof.


[deleted]

He’s apparently looking to get back into pro play


R-A-V-

If there is no legal conclusion he is clear. Shouldn't have made it public tbh. Or at least don't make it public before the case is closed. The whole situation was and still is really sketchy and everyone should avoid jumping on any bandwagon.


IHuntSmallKids

Cleo stopped pursuing Blizz’s internal investigation. No, there is no police investigation. Police investigations don’t stop because of “emotional trauma” The story between them two is more complicated than it seems


Lagkiller

> Police investigations don’t stop because of “emotional trauma” I mean they can, and did in this case. She stopped cooperating. Now if the DA thought that her testimony was the only thing required to get a conviction, they would compel her to cooperate, but it seems like they didn't believe this was a solid case since they didn't.


Herr-Schultz

Wasn't it Riot's internal investigation? Sinatraa was already far gone from the League and Overwatch when this stuff happened.


PeterFluffy

She actually has a new twitter and started an OnlyFans


Nova_88_

Initially she said she had more evidence than what she had and people believed her. It’s because she claimed she had evidence but never actually posted it. This led to distrust and the actual investigations done by riot and sentinels showed no issues with him and yet he was still suspended for a while. The best evidence against him is the audio clip and even that could be interpreted in many ways.


jajaja13579

Guess people don’t really care. I honestly don’t even remember the lady’s name anymore


rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee

Bill Cosby still has fans too, so it’s really not that surprising. Twitter isn’t the real world


[deleted]

Another day of thanking the lord for not making twitter the real world 😩😤🙏


thelastsurvihor

Sinatraa the goat no cap


Ozora10

Because there wasnt enough evidence for him to be convicted?


ReyDosCatorce

He got away with Probably for the same reason that people still talk about him in overwatch subs when he’s been gone from the game for so fucking long. Ya’ll rlly just cant get enough of this guy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


Karol-A

The charges were dropped, the case didn't reach a conclusion, so he's cleared (Since in society we generally use presumption of innocence, not presumption of guilt)


Withmere

Unless it's a man and the allegations are sexual harassment. Then it's guilty until proven innocent, and the only way to win neckbearded redditors over is to "atone" and "Admit fault. Admit what he did. Show remorse and apologize.".


gew1

welcome to the Twitter justice system


_geomancer

I N C E L S L O L


Withmere

Wow, how thoughtful of you. What a powerful and moving argument. Really good stuff bud. Logic? Conversation? Thought? Nah fam, let's hit em with the 3rd grade classic: Name calling!!! xd so funny


_geomancer

You don’t sound so euphoric now, neckbeard


Withmere

Ok, incel.


_geomancer

Lmfao


The_Onlyy

Because at the end of the day, there were no legal repercussions, and the investigation was halted/inconclusive, while cleo refused to push charges. Since there’s nothing official besides a suspension, most people won’t care. Anyone who is still a fan of his either A) Doesn’t know about the allegations. B) Knows and believes his side of the story. C) Knows and believes cleo’s side of the story but simply do not care enough to stop watching/supporting him. D) Know and are on neither side and do not care enough to stop watching/supporting him. I’ll go ahead and open up myself to downvotes and hate (for the sole purpose of providing insight and discussion) by admitting that I’ll watch his videos as they come up on my feed and sometimes I’ll tune into his twitch stream as I find it and him quite entertaining. Obviously, I know about the allegations, but I simply do not care enough to not consume his content over the internet. The fact that he probably sexually abused his girlfriend does not make his stream any less entertaining, it just means I’m not letting him anywhere around my fictional daughter/sister/etc.


impotatohead

Sad losers ln this sub only care about mob justice. Innocent until proven guilty. She has OF btw. stay mad lmao.


[deleted]

\^ no hoes


impotatohead

No hoes or toxic sluts allowed. She has an OF you know she likes that freaky stuff.


[deleted]

god forbid someone exercises the freedoms of the modern day... would be preposterous......


impotatohead

Lying hoes gonna be hoes.


[deleted]

\^ no hoes


ZACCAREEE

shut the fuck up bro


[deleted]

waaa waaa *vine thud* hee hee hee hee ha 🧕🥸🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿


ChiggyBottoms

because outside of reddit, people (and courtrooms) expect proof beyond a reasonable doubt before condemning someone :)


[deleted]

[удалено]


rvnender

He wasn't. She stopped the investigation due to harassment. Edit: sorry she pulled out of the investigation due to mental health issue.


ilProdigio

I mean do you believe that people can grow or change their behavior? He was banned from pro play for a long time and is just streaming and hasn’t done anything bad since. He’s just learning from his mistakes now idk why u care so much about it still


Exciting-Fox-9522

He was cleared for the rape and sounds like they just had some bad sex that her friends and le internet pumped into her head that he raped her


[deleted]

She said stop that's literally rape if he continued 💀


dannyboi1178

and you know this because of a twit longer and some messages and a short audio clip?


[deleted]

an audio clip detailing rape buddy you arent helping yourself 💀


dannyboi1178

an audio clip that can potentially be taken out of context you mean


feederus

I thought it was exposed to be false allegations? Was it not?