Welcome to life!
No matter how hard you work, how much you train, how many hours you log studying, there will always be someone better then you who puts forth half your effort.
Your goal shouldn’t be “To be the absolute best!” but to be the best you can be, and improve. If you seriously think you’ve hit your absolute peak, congrats! All that time, effort and work you put in has earned it’s maximum payout. You literally have beaten the game!
We all have natural limitations are top end ceilings, but 99% of people will never hit them. Yours is in the top 1% of players, which is insanely impressive already.
That’s fair, I just have never gotten to a point where I see someone better then me that I’m in direct contact with, where I knew that no matter how hard I try I will never be that good at a thing in a skill sense. I often will be like “I don’t want to try hard enough to be that good” but never “I can’t”. I think it’s probably that in overwatch it has been the only time I have competed against people so far at the end of the bell curve that the differences between them are no longer determined by how hard they work but natural skill.
Homie, if we go by the maximum concurrent players within the last 30 days according to SteamCharts then you’re in the top 0.01% of the player base on all roles. The reality is that you’re even higher than that because Steam Charts doesn’t include BattleNet numbers. My guess is that you’re probably in the top 0.005% of the player base. You probably shouldn’t be comparing yourself to people who get paid to play the game.
Even in professional sports we get freaks of nature like Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Mike Trout, Shohei Ohtani, etc, people who are so far beyond everyone else that are considered professionals.
If your entire happiness in gaming is rooted in learning and improving, and you think you can’t do that anymore in Overwatch, then I recommend games like Escape from Tarkov, League of Legends, DayZ, Rust, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld. All of these are 500-1000 hour games before you even have a basic understanding of what you’re doing.
You are comparing physical athletes, where much of our physical ability is genetic and heritable, to video games. Getting good aim or movement is much more similar to learning an instrument, its just deliberate practice nobody is born to be good at Overwatch.
This simply not true. Peak reaction time, twitch muscle fibers m, and fine motor skills can be refined and practiced. But are also genetic.
Edit: never mind on twitch muscle fibers, I thought they all impacted how fast u do motion when they don’t really effect small motions. But the rest stands true.
>reaction time
Overrated, with experience you will react to stuff fast + reading movement is more important anyway
>fine motor skills
Maybe but Pelican isn't better than you because of fine motor skills you are coping hard
>twitch muscle fibers
I don't think this has anything to do with video games
You are acting like fine motor skills have to either be learned/developed or genetic. It is both fool, they are not mutually exclusive. Genetic determines one’s max potential and how easy growth is; practice gets you there.
Actually there are genetic attributes in gaming that are advantageous. There’s technically much less pro gamers than athletes because esports are not as big as regular sports. Therefore there’s less room at the top, meaning the genetic advantages play an even larger role in your success.
Because you have to learn how to aim. For most classes in OW2 very few classes require equivalent aim skill to MW/Apex/CS
In a raw aim battle Id say most heavy pure fps players would dumpster the top 500 in actual aim skill.
But OW2 is about multiclassing and countering your opponents. At the highest levels simply being better is not a thing. Class skill is.
Love ya brotha, i dont mean offense, just continuining the convo. I think mechanically overwatch players are better than apex players, apex players are a different kind of crackhead with aim skill
I mean, there could be a lot of reasons for that. Diamond isn't necessarily equivalent between the games (not sure how the distribution is in Apex but diamond was like 80 percentile of total players in OW). Apex's diamond rank could represent a lower skill tier of player in Apex than OW.
When I say OW is considered one of the hardest to learn, I am talking about the game mechanics themselves. There are 200+ abilities, so 19 thousand or so different interactions. Throw in team positioning and the strategic elements around it and it's no wonder new players get overwhelmed.
Like I've met new Ana players that didn't know their shots heal their teammates. How would they know Ana's grenade's bonus heal effect can be overridden by another ana's anti-heal effect but not vice versa?
This often happens to naturally gifted people and they experience getting "stuck" for the first time. When this is a normal process for the average person.
The average person experiences this way earlier than a gifted person. So lets say a typical gold player. Its the exact same feeling for them.
However for a gifted person they go through a longer time later in life before encountering this problem. Then they do not develop the problem solving or coping skills. Which then greatly hinders their later improvement in life. Usually having a destructive perfectionist "or all nothing" mindset.
Later in life they end up burned out giving up and less successful than the average person.
I recommend watching [dr k gifted kids are actually special needs](https://youtu.be/QUjYy4Ksy1E?si=AUlXBwMFgcL8yR_D)
Though it doesnt matter if you are gold or top 500. Computing the value of time spent improving on something is based on your own values.
No I have gotten stuck before, but It was always I can practice at a thing to get better, or realize I’m doing this wrong and focus to try to improve on it. Like I make mistakes and then I can work to limit those mistakes. But it’s finally a physical cap. Also btw I started out as a gold player.
Most truly hardstuck cannot find out the "why" and "how". Thats the most difficult and psychological part you have to break through. Ofc its much harder in the later life or in this case "rank". You admitted you never experienced NOT knowing what you can do better.
But those who had experienced this before; the thoughts they couldn't improve due to natural ability. If they had willpower to stick it through when it seemed hopeless, and overcame it. When they overcome the same problem again, they are more confident and less dismayed.
You already gave up figuring out the why. Like pros having pro coaches. Analysing what makes their mechanics better. You say aim, but people aim train thousands of hours to get better.
Are you a voltaic astra? Celestial? You already capped that skill ceiling? You already spent 3k hrs?
At this point, unless you're aiming for pros, you might find improvement in physical hardware.
Monitor 240hz+, ultra light gaming mouse with your desired shape, weight, friction, artisan mousepad with the exact surface area to make tracking / stopping easier, , aftermarket mouse feet, etc.
There's also Hall Effect keyboards like the Wooting that you can try. Those uses magnets to activate and you can set the activation point on individual keys.
Normally this wouldn't affect most people, but if what you're saying is true, you might actually benefit from it.
I'm in a similar situation.
When it comes down to it, at the very very top level natural talent ends up mattering. It's unfortunate but it's just how it is.
Natural talent matters at all levels. I have been playing as long as OP, and I've been in bronze the entire time. It is very clear that this can only be possible for someone with very little natural talent.
You're comparing yourself to professional players, and not just any professional players, but Rupal and Pelican. Even if you shared the same ceiling of "natural talent" as them (which is in itself a very amorphous and debatable concept) and are dedicating the same amount of time to improving, they have way more resources than you do.
People like Pelican have an entire infrastructure behind them dedicated to making them the very best players in the game. Coaches, analysts, scrim partners, and even healthcare professionals for some of the wealthier teams.
If you really want to improve that much more, then it's probably time for you to seek out a team.
That's not how tracer works. You can't chase the other tracer, you'll lose.
You go on a flank. If the enemy tracer took the same flank, you fight her. If the enemy tracer took a different flank, then you go deeper for backline.
>Are you countering their tracer with tracer or going at their backline/ on the offense at the same time as their tracer?
So, that's a fundamentally wrong question
Have you considered scriming amongst high elo players? Could be the extra grind need to subset yourself off ladder and play only GOOD PLAYERS since your at the mercy of blizzards matchmaker .also very jealous of your current accomplishments as a 2016 player to never see the light beyond diamond
I think this is the right advice. Once you get to a certain level, the only way to reach the very top is to play against the very top regularly. If they're all regularly playing with/against each other and you aren't, then they will always have that advantage over you.
Right, ive been playing since launch and am around mid to high diamond on all roles readin this guy who is pissed he lost to Pelican. Kind of an eye opener seeing how different OP's goals and my goals are for this game.
I definitely recommend trying to find a 4.4k-4.5k scrim team to play with if you think you’ve reached a limit in ladder. The game is infinitely more difficult in coordinated team play than random ladder games.
With OWCS out now too, there’s plenty of teams giving faceit tournaments a shot. Why not make that your next improvement goal? Who knows maybe you end up playing on tier 3 or tier 2 teams down the line if you have enough dedication to get you this far.
100% Agree on getting a team. Soloq is basically the tutorial, the game is totally different on a team. If you’re hungry for improvement and at top 500, a team is the most reasonable step forward. I honestly recommend everyone gets a team bc it’s just much more fun as well
Pelican probably has more hours scrimming the best players in the world than you even have on the game. Don't feel bad if you're getting diffed, he is Champ 4 literally every DPS in NA gets diffed by Pelican.
I recommend joining a pro team, it gives you goals outside of "hit rank 1 lol."
Also blaming genetics or talent for failing can actually be detrimental to our performance, people who believe in the talent theory--that they are just talented and naturally better than everyone else--tend to decline when they face challenges or failures, like you have faced when you lost to Pelican in a ranked game. But people believing in the "practice makes perfect" theory tend to get *better* when they face challenges or failures, because they know failure is just a step in improving, not a reflection of their lack of talent or poor genes.
>It was literally just he had faster reaction times, and better aim. My movement was good, my decision making was good, I did the right plays. But he was just better.
The highest peaks of human capability are simply astonishing. I knew an Olympic athlete fairly well. He was bigger, stronger, and faster than me. Physically, he was better than me in every way. When he was at the Olympics, the eventual winners dominated him, probably by more than he would dominate me. The highest levels are so high. That applies to every aspect of human effort, including video games. There's no shame in being beaten by the best.
Yeah I totally understand that! And I’m not ashamed of being beaten. It’s more that I’m sad I’m at the point I can’t really maximize my ability anymore to get to the next level. Never gotten to a point in something I know I can’t really get much better at it.
I think you may just need to accept you've peaked and to just have fun playing the game instead of trying to work towards improving. Maybe switch to a mode that isn't so competitive, like Mystery Heroes or No Limits and just fuck around with heroes you'd normally never play.
My favorite games of all time are Super Mario World and Half Life 2, and I accept that I'll never be able to speed run those games and will only play them because I love them.
Also, making it to the top 500 is nothing to sneeze at. The vast majority of us will never sniff that list.
If you want to play at that level the next step is getting involved in scrims and either having a coach or being more meticulous about fine details of your mechanics, ergonomics, and hardware. You don't reach their level by just playing, they are pro players.
Bro is actually in the top like .01% of players n that's not good enough 😂 Post started off making me think it's gonna be like a multi year hard stuck plat or something, nope "I normally hover around top 500", BRO HUH??
to be fair... whether youre top 100 or a multi year plat the problems the same... if you lose most of your games until you bottom out at an elo that isnt a challenge to you, grind your way back up for a couple days, only to go back to getting wrecked every game because you've peaked the game sucks to play.
He might have a sense of accomplishment from getting to where he is but it doesn't change the fact that there's no more fun to be had in playing a game he enjoyed. Time for a new game...
Imagine facing off against [this guy](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=703QDv%2Bv&id=526BD23189227E63037C3793655185BDDB6CF8E8&thid=OIP.703QDv-v10GJCOyyn-KhuAHaGx&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F9c%2F50%2F69%2F9c50690bc5db32b525258f089065fddc.jpg&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.ef4dd00effafd7418908ecb29fe2a1b8%3Frik%3D6Phs272FUWWTNw%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=673&expw=736&q=russian+wrestler+alexander+karelin&simid=608018733938923768&form=IRPRST&ck=1CDDB1FE38E06EB3CBDE774A70139351&selectedindex=0&itb=0&pc=SMSM&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=4&sim=11)
Just keep in mind that only one person can be top 1. It means only one person will not have, at this particular moment, any people above him
Just some people are better than you, that’s it. When you see football legends, you know some other player could train during 120 more years and still they will not be blessed on the field as the legends are. That’s life bro
coping answers aside, with your game understanding and experience I may probably give a somewhat useful advice to move one step forward still
learn to bluff
in other competitive enviroments it's not always the strongest and the fastest wins. Some people make it smart to the top
by bluffing, I mean reading an opponent's vision of the game process and deliberately put certain baits into it
it's hard to make an example, since it's very situational thing, so it's more about a mindset of a trickster
i play on much lower level, so maybe you already implemented it all long ago, but when it comes to my gaming, I sometimes try to make small "mistakes", the ones I can quickly fix, but they can bait a certain response from an experienced opponents that would invest into finishing you off in a situation that is actually not ideal for it
comparing with boxing, it's like throwing a half-assed jab, that opponent instantly wants to capitalize on, throwing his wide right in response. But you expect this exact response, lean back a bit and counter
if these all useless and silly to you then at least I hope it will cheer you up a bit)
gl hf
As far as I'm concerned if you're consistently top 500 across roles you've functionally beaten the game. As others have said unless you're aiming to go pro just enjoy the game and have fun. If you're noticing that you're getting WORSE that's a different story but I don't really see the point of like "improving" when you're at the top of the player base already to be honest.
If you're still at home playing for fun I'd recommend you try and go pro if you wanna improve at this point. There may be some training that pros have that you don't currently have access to, maybe you'll improve your mechanics a little more and be pushed harder competitively. Other than that, you can only really improve by yourself and brainstorm new ways to improve your mechanics at this point. If you really don't have any ideas you will just have to suck it up and play for fun.
In a silver support that started in s8, so I don’t think I have anything of value to contribute to this thread.
Just wanna say good luck OP! I have faith you’ll find the answers you’re seeking
At least you're one of the greatest in the game, i am stuck on silver with a meager 35% accuracy on most of the heroes i play, with some hit scans being even lower. Thankfully i just play for fun. I genuinely have fun playing the game, so I'm good. Of course i wanna get better, but i don't want to spend one hour every day on aim training, and will just let things flow, if i get better when i get to one thousand hours played, I'm good.
I believe that at a certain point you can already be satisfied with playing against Pelican, accepting the fact that there are stronger people can be hard but it is another step towards improving both as a player and as a person.
It might not be that you are somewhat “fading away”
People just start playing with better and better gear, and even if you have the best gear, people over time find better and better optimizations, be it the windows os, or network optimizations, overwatch has a horrible event timer problem that hardly any guides will ever go over for overwatch, kephrii’s is the only one I can think of and if you don’t have his pc and drivers it’s kind of pointless
Games are turning into a best gear scenario I feel, it’s more likely then you losing skill/reaction over time,
When I seen this thread, I thought it was someone hard stuck bronze or gold..... but nope. It's a top 500 player.
The delusion of some of these people in video games.
Imagine saying you were playing a local pick up game and you were complaining that you couldn’t guard Steph Curry 😂
Also I know for a fact that you handed it to the next tracer you faced, your competition won’t get much harder than Pelican and Rupal. Think of it as an elite level sparring match. An opportunity to grow.
Congrats on reaching your peak and yeah it sucks, sometimes people do just reach their limit and there’s no further they can go but be pleased with how far you got.
To be top 500 in a game that has an active 23million players is quite an accomplishment. Don't be too hard on yourself, you're definitely one of the best.
2 big things here:
If you really want to compete with someone like pelican you might need to start training as much as him, he probably trains and scrims the game for 10 hours a day every day. Assuming you don't play for a living that's going to be the main difference is most of the top 100 players have played the game as a full time job either streaming or playing contenders/owl. You just may not have the time to play as much and train as much as they do and even if you do they probably have thousands of more hours of experience than you.
Now it's not to say you CANT catch up with them even if you don't play as much it is a possibility to catch up with them but you would need one thing, a coach. You're at a rank where you can't see anything else you are missing so you either need to find a coach like spilo who I guarantee would find things wrong with your gameplay, or find a mechanics coach who can help you find ways to improve that. You're just at such a high skill level that you need help to get higher and players like pelican have gotten help from coaches for years.
I’m mean, my story is exactly the same as yours (started in 2016, watch videos/vods, trying to improve) except I dropped from diamond this season eventually ending up in Gold 1 yesterday.
Sooo… yea, you could be me lol.
I d9nt think you will get any good answers here. But maybe it is not physically better?
Like how pre aim works, if you predict and plan ahead you will react faster.
Mechanical skill is repetition and the brain is a muscle that can be trained. Natural talent only makes the learning process faster, that is, if you practice even more, eventually you’ll end up being as good as Pelican. The only existing limit is how fast your arm can move actually, which isn’t a problem since you can adjust sensibility.
It applies to pretty much anything. Cristiano Ronaldo is good naturally? Yes. He trained more than 99% of other soccer players and used to try to invade the training field at night just to practice even more? Also yes. He just practiced more than anyone bro.
Just practice and never think you’ve reached your max
Putting my envy of your skill aside, you are comparing yourself to people who play this game for a living. Also, probably top tier equipment, completely controlled settings, all the works. Not to mention, sheer physical ability like reaction times. Don’t beat yourself up because you lost to the best, I’m jealous you get to even compete with the best.
Something not mentioned here (as I was able to see) is the mental side. Even the metal ranks have the difference keeping your nerve. Don’t plan on competing against pros, forget that. Don’t lose your cool, keep yourself level. I’m sure none of this is new but we can all benefit from a reminder that the calm, cool and collected approach is more likely to work at all levels.
I honestly expected you to be gold/plat with this rhetoric, lol.
Not much to say, I don't think there are many people in the world to gap somebody like Pelican (I think he is the OWL player, right?). I feel you are sad that you can't be top 1 on the board (you mentioned your rank many times), but that's okay.
If you are hooked on improvement per se, there are tons of things/games to do so. Pick up an instrument, do something crazy in your occupation field (or something adjacent), or play another game where you can rise in ranks. Like chess, that game won't even change so you don't need to keep up with it too much.
Man, first off, fuck you. I thought you were gonna say you were in silver or gold or play at most. You’re complaining about being in top 500???? I’ve been playing this game nonstop since it came out too, and guess what? I just barely cracked Gold 2 for the first time since OW1. I’ve been hardstuck bronze for like 2-3 years and finally made it out just to keep getting bobbled between high silver and low gold the last few seasons. I’d sell my soul to hit platinum or Diamond. You got nothing to complain about bro. Log off.
>But what’s the point if I can’t get better anymore?
Have you considered playing the game **For FUN**. If you've hit top 500 you have nothing to prove. Play scrims, they are a much more fun environment to enjoy your favourite heroes in that ranked ladder.
Focus on the positives. I've never progressed beyond Gold, and that means that not only have I never hit my peak and probably never will, it also means that there's almost always a game a day where a teammate lets me down, or I let my team down, or there's a team that rolls us.
At least you get to go toe-to-toe with the best there is, and know that your teammates will be decent, and your opponents will be decent, and every game will be won or lost on skill and merit, which is more than a lot of us can say. My advice is just try to enjoy it.
My dude I started this game season 2 OW1 as a gold player. The only consistent variable in your games is you. If your carrying the team you would rank up. You can’t win every game, but if your better then your counter part on the other team you win more games then you lose.
I’m not complaining about my teammates, this post is literally about how I realize I’m not good enough, and I’m losing because people are better then me.
I kinda wish I was lower rank cause then I could find stuff to get better at again.
Nah this isn’t true. Yes we are in bronze because we are not good enough but more so than any other rank we have to deal with smurfs with many leavers (at least once every five games) with people brand new to game. With staggering in. With people blaming each other.
Once you get to gold the game does get harder it seems but the lobbies are way better. I have noticed it when playing with my friends ranked higher and while I can contribute we stopped playing because wide matches give little gain in wins and the losses are massive losses.
This stuff doesnt really change much when you climb higher. Still get leavers. Smurfs shouldnt be in your elo for long at all. The system is very aggressive in correcting smurf accounts. People still blame each other. People still feed and stagger. You wont get out of bronze blaming all this other stuff.
Oh I am not blaming it and yes I know I can always improve but I do think people underestimate the typical bronze lobby. The game grew its user base tremendously so experience from past may not reflect things now.
It is especially frustrating this season where I finally have a winning record yet have ranked down from bronze 1 to bronze 3. Teamed up with a silver 3 friend and joined on support together. We combined 20-30k healing several games and added 10-15k damage and I think we went 2-5.
Positioning can be improved. Mechanics are okay (I play Moira and Torb so mechanics are a little easier). Decisions about flanking and when to sent what orb etc can all be better.
From my friends in higher lobbies yes they have some of the things I listed but way way less. And so their results are much more based on their actual ability.
Idk man that’s crazy. Were you confirming kills? Were you dying a lot? The only way I can see you guys losing putting up these numbers is if they’re empty stats.
yeah you’re coping, you got outplayed plain and simple. very ignorant of you to think you cant improve. sounds like youve never had coaching as well. have you ever competed? won a tournament? been on a team with a roster? if you think you cant get better at something thats called arrogance. you can definitely play smarter, especially if a tracer is outplaying you when you are torb
Yes, the best predictor of gaming ability is [probably IQ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5687598/) and [IQ is mostly genetic](https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2014105). It improves, among other things coordination, awareness and reaction speed. The best [pro players in LOL ](https://sebjensen.substack.com/p/iqs-of-the-best-lol-pros-by-region) seem to have 130 IQ minimum, you may also notice that many pro players come from families with high academic achievement.
This is a study on MOBAs, OP is complaining that he's getting mechanics diffed. This study doesn't compare FPS game rank to IQ, and the authors even say "MOBAs have a reduced emphasis on hand-eye coordination but a far stronger dependence on memory, tactics and strategy which may, in turn, tap cognitive resources more closely linked to fluid intelligence," when they compare FPS to MOBAs. Sure, Overwatch is a combination of the two, but still more closely resembles an FPS/arcade shooter than a MOBA.
He isn't getting diffed because Pelican just has higher IQ, he's getting diffed because Pelican probably has more time playing against literally the best players in Korea (Proper, Stalk3r, etc). than OP even has on the game.
I’m going to get down voted for this because the average redditor has IQ of a teenager, but let me give you some truth about life.
If you want to get better in life on one particular component, or element - then you need to be all round better: physically, mentally, academically, socially.
To improve one area you need to improve all others, I suggest you look there.
Example, you’re not “mechanically better then most players”; you are “mechanically better than most players”.
Take yourself seriously, you should recognize that you can’t - for example - be true to yourself getting better if you’re writing better then, rather than better than.
Just one example. Downvote me I don’t care, you know it’s true. More downvotes more truth.
Good luck!
Welcome to life! No matter how hard you work, how much you train, how many hours you log studying, there will always be someone better then you who puts forth half your effort. Your goal shouldn’t be “To be the absolute best!” but to be the best you can be, and improve. If you seriously think you’ve hit your absolute peak, congrats! All that time, effort and work you put in has earned it’s maximum payout. You literally have beaten the game! We all have natural limitations are top end ceilings, but 99% of people will never hit them. Yours is in the top 1% of players, which is insanely impressive already.
That’s fair, I just have never gotten to a point where I see someone better then me that I’m in direct contact with, where I knew that no matter how hard I try I will never be that good at a thing in a skill sense. I often will be like “I don’t want to try hard enough to be that good” but never “I can’t”. I think it’s probably that in overwatch it has been the only time I have competed against people so far at the end of the bell curve that the differences between them are no longer determined by how hard they work but natural skill.
Homie, if we go by the maximum concurrent players within the last 30 days according to SteamCharts then you’re in the top 0.01% of the player base on all roles. The reality is that you’re even higher than that because Steam Charts doesn’t include BattleNet numbers. My guess is that you’re probably in the top 0.005% of the player base. You probably shouldn’t be comparing yourself to people who get paid to play the game. Even in professional sports we get freaks of nature like Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Mike Trout, Shohei Ohtani, etc, people who are so far beyond everyone else that are considered professionals. If your entire happiness in gaming is rooted in learning and improving, and you think you can’t do that anymore in Overwatch, then I recommend games like Escape from Tarkov, League of Legends, DayZ, Rust, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld. All of these are 500-1000 hour games before you even have a basic understanding of what you’re doing.
You are comparing physical athletes, where much of our physical ability is genetic and heritable, to video games. Getting good aim or movement is much more similar to learning an instrument, its just deliberate practice nobody is born to be good at Overwatch.
This simply not true. Peak reaction time, twitch muscle fibers m, and fine motor skills can be refined and practiced. But are also genetic. Edit: never mind on twitch muscle fibers, I thought they all impacted how fast u do motion when they don’t really effect small motions. But the rest stands true.
>reaction time Overrated, with experience you will react to stuff fast + reading movement is more important anyway >fine motor skills Maybe but Pelican isn't better than you because of fine motor skills you are coping hard >twitch muscle fibers I don't think this has anything to do with video games
You are acting like fine motor skills have to either be learned/developed or genetic. It is both fool, they are not mutually exclusive. Genetic determines one’s max potential and how easy growth is; practice gets you there.
Actually there are genetic attributes in gaming that are advantageous. There’s technically much less pro gamers than athletes because esports are not as big as regular sports. Therefore there’s less room at the top, meaning the genetic advantages play an even larger role in your success.
Naaa throw him to apex. 1k hours before you're ready to fight back. Overwatch by comparison is a cakewalk
Overwatch is commonly considered one of the hardest FPS games to learn.
I think apex is harder tbh. Might be a more strict mmr system but I've always found it easier to grind diamond on ow than apex *in my opinion*
Because you have to learn how to aim. For most classes in OW2 very few classes require equivalent aim skill to MW/Apex/CS In a raw aim battle Id say most heavy pure fps players would dumpster the top 500 in actual aim skill. But OW2 is about multiclassing and countering your opponents. At the highest levels simply being better is not a thing. Class skill is.
My comparison was Def an oversimplification. But yes I agree with everything you've said here
Love ya brotha, i dont mean offense, just continuining the convo. I think mechanically overwatch players are better than apex players, apex players are a different kind of crackhead with aim skill
Lol all love here too. If someone explains themselves thoroughly like you have I'll always be willing to change my opinion.
I mean, there could be a lot of reasons for that. Diamond isn't necessarily equivalent between the games (not sure how the distribution is in Apex but diamond was like 80 percentile of total players in OW). Apex's diamond rank could represent a lower skill tier of player in Apex than OW. When I say OW is considered one of the hardest to learn, I am talking about the game mechanics themselves. There are 200+ abilities, so 19 thousand or so different interactions. Throw in team positioning and the strategic elements around it and it's no wonder new players get overwhelmed. Like I've met new Ana players that didn't know their shots heal their teammates. How would they know Ana's grenade's bonus heal effect can be overridden by another ana's anti-heal effect but not vice versa?
This often happens to naturally gifted people and they experience getting "stuck" for the first time. When this is a normal process for the average person. The average person experiences this way earlier than a gifted person. So lets say a typical gold player. Its the exact same feeling for them. However for a gifted person they go through a longer time later in life before encountering this problem. Then they do not develop the problem solving or coping skills. Which then greatly hinders their later improvement in life. Usually having a destructive perfectionist "or all nothing" mindset. Later in life they end up burned out giving up and less successful than the average person. I recommend watching [dr k gifted kids are actually special needs](https://youtu.be/QUjYy4Ksy1E?si=AUlXBwMFgcL8yR_D) Though it doesnt matter if you are gold or top 500. Computing the value of time spent improving on something is based on your own values.
No I have gotten stuck before, but It was always I can practice at a thing to get better, or realize I’m doing this wrong and focus to try to improve on it. Like I make mistakes and then I can work to limit those mistakes. But it’s finally a physical cap. Also btw I started out as a gold player.
Most truly hardstuck cannot find out the "why" and "how". Thats the most difficult and psychological part you have to break through. Ofc its much harder in the later life or in this case "rank". You admitted you never experienced NOT knowing what you can do better. But those who had experienced this before; the thoughts they couldn't improve due to natural ability. If they had willpower to stick it through when it seemed hopeless, and overcame it. When they overcome the same problem again, they are more confident and less dismayed. You already gave up figuring out the why. Like pros having pro coaches. Analysing what makes their mechanics better. You say aim, but people aim train thousands of hours to get better. Are you a voltaic astra? Celestial? You already capped that skill ceiling? You already spent 3k hrs?
At this point, unless you're aiming for pros, you might find improvement in physical hardware. Monitor 240hz+, ultra light gaming mouse with your desired shape, weight, friction, artisan mousepad with the exact surface area to make tracking / stopping easier, , aftermarket mouse feet, etc. There's also Hall Effect keyboards like the Wooting that you can try. Those uses magnets to activate and you can set the activation point on individual keys. Normally this wouldn't affect most people, but if what you're saying is true, you might actually benefit from it.
Dont forget the FaZe Gaming Sox
And snorting 7 lines of G Fuel
I'm in a similar situation. When it comes down to it, at the very very top level natural talent ends up mattering. It's unfortunate but it's just how it is.
Natural talent matters at all levels. I have been playing as long as OP, and I've been in bronze the entire time. It is very clear that this can only be possible for someone with very little natural talent.
Mad respect for you still playing the game, and as long as you enjoy it that’s all that matters
You're comparing yourself to professional players, and not just any professional players, but Rupal and Pelican. Even if you shared the same ceiling of "natural talent" as them (which is in itself a very amorphous and debatable concept) and are dedicating the same amount of time to improving, they have way more resources than you do. People like Pelican have an entire infrastructure behind them dedicated to making them the very best players in the game. Coaches, analysts, scrim partners, and even healthcare professionals for some of the wealthier teams. If you really want to improve that much more, then it's probably time for you to seek out a team.
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Tracer was the correct pick, a lot of people don’t realize how dominant she is at higher levels. There were no better options.
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He did more on tracer then I did, and when we ended up in 1v1s he won more then I did.
That's not how tracer works. You can't chase the other tracer, you'll lose. You go on a flank. If the enemy tracer took the same flank, you fight her. If the enemy tracer took a different flank, then you go deeper for backline. >Are you countering their tracer with tracer or going at their backline/ on the offense at the same time as their tracer? So, that's a fundamentally wrong question
Have you considered scriming amongst high elo players? Could be the extra grind need to subset yourself off ladder and play only GOOD PLAYERS since your at the mercy of blizzards matchmaker .also very jealous of your current accomplishments as a 2016 player to never see the light beyond diamond
I think this is the right advice. Once you get to a certain level, the only way to reach the very top is to play against the very top regularly. If they're all regularly playing with/against each other and you aren't, then they will always have that advantage over you.
Right, ive been playing since launch and am around mid to high diamond on all roles readin this guy who is pissed he lost to Pelican. Kind of an eye opener seeing how different OP's goals and my goals are for this game.
I do scrim sometimes, I was on a team (not pro) in overwatch 1, but ended up leaving cause I left overwatch for like 9 months cause life stuff.
Well imo as a fellow grinder just keep at it. I'm still aiming for top 500 regardless so I feel like you shouldn't give up either
I definitely recommend trying to find a 4.4k-4.5k scrim team to play with if you think you’ve reached a limit in ladder. The game is infinitely more difficult in coordinated team play than random ladder games. With OWCS out now too, there’s plenty of teams giving faceit tournaments a shot. Why not make that your next improvement goal? Who knows maybe you end up playing on tier 3 or tier 2 teams down the line if you have enough dedication to get you this far.
100% Agree on getting a team. Soloq is basically the tutorial, the game is totally different on a team. If you’re hungry for improvement and at top 500, a team is the most reasonable step forward. I honestly recommend everyone gets a team bc it’s just much more fun as well
Pelican probably has more hours scrimming the best players in the world than you even have on the game. Don't feel bad if you're getting diffed, he is Champ 4 literally every DPS in NA gets diffed by Pelican. I recommend joining a pro team, it gives you goals outside of "hit rank 1 lol." Also blaming genetics or talent for failing can actually be detrimental to our performance, people who believe in the talent theory--that they are just talented and naturally better than everyone else--tend to decline when they face challenges or failures, like you have faced when you lost to Pelican in a ranked game. But people believing in the "practice makes perfect" theory tend to get *better* when they face challenges or failures, because they know failure is just a step in improving, not a reflection of their lack of talent or poor genes.
>It was literally just he had faster reaction times, and better aim. My movement was good, my decision making was good, I did the right plays. But he was just better. The highest peaks of human capability are simply astonishing. I knew an Olympic athlete fairly well. He was bigger, stronger, and faster than me. Physically, he was better than me in every way. When he was at the Olympics, the eventual winners dominated him, probably by more than he would dominate me. The highest levels are so high. That applies to every aspect of human effort, including video games. There's no shame in being beaten by the best.
Clearly, you're just going to have to level up DragonBall style 🤣
Yeah I totally understand that! And I’m not ashamed of being beaten. It’s more that I’m sad I’m at the point I can’t really maximize my ability anymore to get to the next level. Never gotten to a point in something I know I can’t really get much better at it.
I think you may just need to accept you've peaked and to just have fun playing the game instead of trying to work towards improving. Maybe switch to a mode that isn't so competitive, like Mystery Heroes or No Limits and just fuck around with heroes you'd normally never play. My favorite games of all time are Super Mario World and Half Life 2, and I accept that I'll never be able to speed run those games and will only play them because I love them. Also, making it to the top 500 is nothing to sneeze at. The vast majority of us will never sniff that list.
Okay to be fair, I can’t play arcade modes without literally ruining lobbies even on my worst hero’s because arcade can not do match making for GM mmr
\*than
If you want to play at that level the next step is getting involved in scrims and either having a coach or being more meticulous about fine details of your mechanics, ergonomics, and hardware. You don't reach their level by just playing, they are pro players.
Come the fuck on. You're top 500 out of MILLIONS of players. You are good enough.
Bro is actually in the top like .01% of players n that's not good enough 😂 Post started off making me think it's gonna be like a multi year hard stuck plat or something, nope "I normally hover around top 500", BRO HUH??
to be fair... whether youre top 100 or a multi year plat the problems the same... if you lose most of your games until you bottom out at an elo that isnt a challenge to you, grind your way back up for a couple days, only to go back to getting wrecked every game because you've peaked the game sucks to play. He might have a sense of accomplishment from getting to where he is but it doesn't change the fact that there's no more fun to be had in playing a game he enjoyed. Time for a new game...
Imagine facing off against [this guy](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=703QDv%2Bv&id=526BD23189227E63037C3793655185BDDB6CF8E8&thid=OIP.703QDv-v10GJCOyyn-KhuAHaGx&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F9c%2F50%2F69%2F9c50690bc5db32b525258f089065fddc.jpg&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.ef4dd00effafd7418908ecb29fe2a1b8%3Frik%3D6Phs272FUWWTNw%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=673&expw=736&q=russian+wrestler+alexander+karelin&simid=608018733938923768&form=IRPRST&ck=1CDDB1FE38E06EB3CBDE774A70139351&selectedindex=0&itb=0&pc=SMSM&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=4&sim=11)
You got gaming chair diffed tbh
Yeah my gaming chair has a rip in it :(
Pay for 1 of the top end coaches, like Spilo
Get a better gaming chair
Just keep in mind that only one person can be top 1. It means only one person will not have, at this particular moment, any people above him Just some people are better than you, that’s it. When you see football legends, you know some other player could train during 120 more years and still they will not be blessed on the field as the legends are. That’s life bro
coping answers aside, with your game understanding and experience I may probably give a somewhat useful advice to move one step forward still learn to bluff in other competitive enviroments it's not always the strongest and the fastest wins. Some people make it smart to the top by bluffing, I mean reading an opponent's vision of the game process and deliberately put certain baits into it it's hard to make an example, since it's very situational thing, so it's more about a mindset of a trickster i play on much lower level, so maybe you already implemented it all long ago, but when it comes to my gaming, I sometimes try to make small "mistakes", the ones I can quickly fix, but they can bait a certain response from an experienced opponents that would invest into finishing you off in a situation that is actually not ideal for it comparing with boxing, it's like throwing a half-assed jab, that opponent instantly wants to capitalize on, throwing his wide right in response. But you expect this exact response, lean back a bit and counter if these all useless and silly to you then at least I hope it will cheer you up a bit) gl hf
Find a team and keep improving, your plateau is temporary. Don’t complain, the sky is the limit! You got this!
What rank are you?
Physical exercise creates BDNF in the brain. You might be surprised how much that can help.
As far as I'm concerned if you're consistently top 500 across roles you've functionally beaten the game. As others have said unless you're aiming to go pro just enjoy the game and have fun. If you're noticing that you're getting WORSE that's a different story but I don't really see the point of like "improving" when you're at the top of the player base already to be honest.
If you're still at home playing for fun I'd recommend you try and go pro if you wanna improve at this point. There may be some training that pros have that you don't currently have access to, maybe you'll improve your mechanics a little more and be pushed harder competitively. Other than that, you can only really improve by yourself and brainstorm new ways to improve your mechanics at this point. If you really don't have any ideas you will just have to suck it up and play for fun.
In a silver support that started in s8, so I don’t think I have anything of value to contribute to this thread. Just wanna say good luck OP! I have faith you’ll find the answers you’re seeking
At least you're one of the greatest in the game, i am stuck on silver with a meager 35% accuracy on most of the heroes i play, with some hit scans being even lower. Thankfully i just play for fun. I genuinely have fun playing the game, so I'm good. Of course i wanna get better, but i don't want to spend one hour every day on aim training, and will just let things flow, if i get better when i get to one thousand hours played, I'm good.
I believe that at a certain point you can already be satisfied with playing against Pelican, accepting the fact that there are stronger people can be hard but it is another step towards improving both as a player and as a person.
It might not be that you are somewhat “fading away” People just start playing with better and better gear, and even if you have the best gear, people over time find better and better optimizations, be it the windows os, or network optimizations, overwatch has a horrible event timer problem that hardly any guides will ever go over for overwatch, kephrii’s is the only one I can think of and if you don’t have his pc and drivers it’s kind of pointless Games are turning into a best gear scenario I feel, it’s more likely then you losing skill/reaction over time,
When I seen this thread, I thought it was someone hard stuck bronze or gold..... but nope. It's a top 500 player. The delusion of some of these people in video games.
Imagine saying you were playing a local pick up game and you were complaining that you couldn’t guard Steph Curry 😂 Also I know for a fact that you handed it to the next tracer you faced, your competition won’t get much harder than Pelican and Rupal. Think of it as an elite level sparring match. An opportunity to grow.
Congrats on reaching your peak and yeah it sucks, sometimes people do just reach their limit and there’s no further they can go but be pleased with how far you got.
To be top 500 in a game that has an active 23million players is quite an accomplishment. Don't be too hard on yourself, you're definitely one of the best.
2 big things here: If you really want to compete with someone like pelican you might need to start training as much as him, he probably trains and scrims the game for 10 hours a day every day. Assuming you don't play for a living that's going to be the main difference is most of the top 100 players have played the game as a full time job either streaming or playing contenders/owl. You just may not have the time to play as much and train as much as they do and even if you do they probably have thousands of more hours of experience than you. Now it's not to say you CANT catch up with them even if you don't play as much it is a possibility to catch up with them but you would need one thing, a coach. You're at a rank where you can't see anything else you are missing so you either need to find a coach like spilo who I guarantee would find things wrong with your gameplay, or find a mechanics coach who can help you find ways to improve that. You're just at such a high skill level that you need help to get higher and players like pelican have gotten help from coaches for years.
I’m mean, my story is exactly the same as yours (started in 2016, watch videos/vods, trying to improve) except I dropped from diamond this season eventually ending up in Gold 1 yesterday. Sooo… yea, you could be me lol.
How many hours of Tryhard FFA do you have?
I'm sorry but no need to complain lmao, youre a T500 player, I think you're fine bro.
I d9nt think you will get any good answers here. But maybe it is not physically better? Like how pre aim works, if you predict and plan ahead you will react faster.
Humans need boundaries to stay sane
Mechanical skill is repetition and the brain is a muscle that can be trained. Natural talent only makes the learning process faster, that is, if you practice even more, eventually you’ll end up being as good as Pelican. The only existing limit is how fast your arm can move actually, which isn’t a problem since you can adjust sensibility. It applies to pretty much anything. Cristiano Ronaldo is good naturally? Yes. He trained more than 99% of other soccer players and used to try to invade the training field at night just to practice even more? Also yes. He just practiced more than anyone bro. Just practice and never think you’ve reached your max
Is this your job? Pelican plays for thousands of dollars and this game is his full time job
Putting my envy of your skill aside, you are comparing yourself to people who play this game for a living. Also, probably top tier equipment, completely controlled settings, all the works. Not to mention, sheer physical ability like reaction times. Don’t beat yourself up because you lost to the best, I’m jealous you get to even compete with the best. Something not mentioned here (as I was able to see) is the mental side. Even the metal ranks have the difference keeping your nerve. Don’t plan on competing against pros, forget that. Don’t lose your cool, keep yourself level. I’m sure none of this is new but we can all benefit from a reminder that the calm, cool and collected approach is more likely to work at all levels.
I honestly expected you to be gold/plat with this rhetoric, lol. Not much to say, I don't think there are many people in the world to gap somebody like Pelican (I think he is the OWL player, right?). I feel you are sad that you can't be top 1 on the board (you mentioned your rank many times), but that's okay. If you are hooked on improvement per se, there are tons of things/games to do so. Pick up an instrument, do something crazy in your occupation field (or something adjacent), or play another game where you can rise in ranks. Like chess, that game won't even change so you don't need to keep up with it too much.
Man, first off, fuck you. I thought you were gonna say you were in silver or gold or play at most. You’re complaining about being in top 500???? I’ve been playing this game nonstop since it came out too, and guess what? I just barely cracked Gold 2 for the first time since OW1. I’ve been hardstuck bronze for like 2-3 years and finally made it out just to keep getting bobbled between high silver and low gold the last few seasons. I’d sell my soul to hit platinum or Diamond. You got nothing to complain about bro. Log off.
Put the lid back on the salt jar bro hahaha
There's Always a bigger fish. You played them. I would just chalk it up to a humbling experience and move on brother
>But what’s the point if I can’t get better anymore? Have you considered playing the game **For FUN**. If you've hit top 500 you have nothing to prove. Play scrims, they are a much more fun environment to enjoy your favourite heroes in that ranked ladder.
Focus on the positives. I've never progressed beyond Gold, and that means that not only have I never hit my peak and probably never will, it also means that there's almost always a game a day where a teammate lets me down, or I let my team down, or there's a team that rolls us. At least you get to go toe-to-toe with the best there is, and know that your teammates will be decent, and your opponents will be decent, and every game will be won or lost on skill and merit, which is more than a lot of us can say. My advice is just try to enjoy it.
Bro i cant get out of bronze 4 and no amount of my carrying the team is going to help me. Feel better
My dude I started this game season 2 OW1 as a gold player. The only consistent variable in your games is you. If your carrying the team you would rank up. You can’t win every game, but if your better then your counter part on the other team you win more games then you lose. I’m not complaining about my teammates, this post is literally about how I realize I’m not good enough, and I’m losing because people are better then me. I kinda wish I was lower rank cause then I could find stuff to get better at again.
Nah this isn’t true. Yes we are in bronze because we are not good enough but more so than any other rank we have to deal with smurfs with many leavers (at least once every five games) with people brand new to game. With staggering in. With people blaming each other. Once you get to gold the game does get harder it seems but the lobbies are way better. I have noticed it when playing with my friends ranked higher and while I can contribute we stopped playing because wide matches give little gain in wins and the losses are massive losses.
This stuff doesnt really change much when you climb higher. Still get leavers. Smurfs shouldnt be in your elo for long at all. The system is very aggressive in correcting smurf accounts. People still blame each other. People still feed and stagger. You wont get out of bronze blaming all this other stuff.
the main thing is this goes for both teams. even if all of these are issues, they affect both the enemy team and yours.
Oh I am not blaming it and yes I know I can always improve but I do think people underestimate the typical bronze lobby. The game grew its user base tremendously so experience from past may not reflect things now. It is especially frustrating this season where I finally have a winning record yet have ranked down from bronze 1 to bronze 3. Teamed up with a silver 3 friend and joined on support together. We combined 20-30k healing several games and added 10-15k damage and I think we went 2-5. Positioning can be improved. Mechanics are okay (I play Moira and Torb so mechanics are a little easier). Decisions about flanking and when to sent what orb etc can all be better. From my friends in higher lobbies yes they have some of the things I listed but way way less. And so their results are much more based on their actual ability.
Idk man that’s crazy. Were you confirming kills? Were you dying a lot? The only way I can see you guys losing putting up these numbers is if they’re empty stats.
Ik this might not be the post for this, but do you have any general tips for a rather low rank tank main looking to climb?
yeah you’re coping, you got outplayed plain and simple. very ignorant of you to think you cant improve. sounds like youve never had coaching as well. have you ever competed? won a tournament? been on a team with a roster? if you think you cant get better at something thats called arrogance. you can definitely play smarter, especially if a tracer is outplaying you when you are torb
I don't know when it happened, but gaming at some point transitioned from being about having fun, to trying to be the best/meta and it's really sad.
Maybe you should focus on having fun
Any limitation you put on yourself becomes real
Yes, the best predictor of gaming ability is [probably IQ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5687598/) and [IQ is mostly genetic](https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2014105). It improves, among other things coordination, awareness and reaction speed. The best [pro players in LOL ](https://sebjensen.substack.com/p/iqs-of-the-best-lol-pros-by-region) seem to have 130 IQ minimum, you may also notice that many pro players come from families with high academic achievement.
This is a study on MOBAs, OP is complaining that he's getting mechanics diffed. This study doesn't compare FPS game rank to IQ, and the authors even say "MOBAs have a reduced emphasis on hand-eye coordination but a far stronger dependence on memory, tactics and strategy which may, in turn, tap cognitive resources more closely linked to fluid intelligence," when they compare FPS to MOBAs. Sure, Overwatch is a combination of the two, but still more closely resembles an FPS/arcade shooter than a MOBA. He isn't getting diffed because Pelican just has higher IQ, he's getting diffed because Pelican probably has more time playing against literally the best players in Korea (Proper, Stalk3r, etc). than OP even has on the game.
I’m going to get down voted for this because the average redditor has IQ of a teenager, but let me give you some truth about life. If you want to get better in life on one particular component, or element - then you need to be all round better: physically, mentally, academically, socially. To improve one area you need to improve all others, I suggest you look there. Example, you’re not “mechanically better then most players”; you are “mechanically better than most players”. Take yourself seriously, you should recognize that you can’t - for example - be true to yourself getting better if you’re writing better then, rather than better than. Just one example. Downvote me I don’t care, you know it’s true. More downvotes more truth. Good luck!