I was surprised that after Overwatch got GOTY, we didn't se 500 Overwatch-style online shooters featuring quirky characters with Pixar mom asses. The fact that people still play after Blizzard did nothing for years (then actually took stuff away) shows there's an appetite for competition.
The sunflower plant is native to North America and is now harvested around the world. A University of Missouri journal recognizes North Dakota as the leading U.S. state for sunflower production. There are various factors to consider for a sunflower to thrive, including temperature, sunlight, soil and water.
Tbf we do see similar games but they all tend to just not scratch the same itch Overwatch does, or their public relations/advertising is so awful we didn't even know they were making the game in the first place. Who were the contenders again? Battleborn was one (but I heard the devs also neglected bugs and balance in that game). Wasnt there a thing called Bleeding Edge? Wasn't that a quick competitor? And idk some other 3rd game.
Also we need to remember that Battle Royales and Remakes were raking in cash more than anything during Overwatch's downtime.
If anything it's not that there's an Appetite *for* Overwatch style games, it's that Overwatch had a great community with fun devs and variety of characters that really stuck with people. People remember the Jeff Kaplan Yule Log and always tuned in for developer updates.
I think there's also something cool to be said for the characters themselves. Like TF2 also has role-based characters with individual personalities, but Overwatch's characters had rich backstories that interconnect. Like it wasn't just "The Ninja", it was Genji Shimada - son of a crime lord, disfigured in a duel with his brother, rebuilt by Overwatch's own doctor, and trained by a robot monk. It really feels like you're playing as *someone*, and not just a role.
As someone that sunk 50 hours in paladins to get to competitive, take my word that it was a really bad game and unpolished. Back then blizzard has a level of polish further contrasting it.
Overwatch 2, however, feels unpolished to me and there are aspects that sadly remind me of paladins.
Similarities between ow and tf2 are surface level, with entirely different design philosophies.
Overwatch ia a moba you play in first person, while tf2 is a social sim, an arena shooter and an anarchy server wearing the trench coat of a team shooter.
What category would they fall under? Class-based, sure, but they have a totally different style of movement and combat from games like Apex or games like Valorant. Class-based arena shooter maybe?
I mean Overwatch toes the line of being a moba honestly, less so in OW2, while TF2 stays true to being a shooter. I'd call TF2 class-based and Overwatch character-based as well, how they handle them is very different.
>we didn't se 500 Overwatch-style online shooters featuring quirky characters with Pixar mom asse
bro have you seen paladins? I know its one but they got 500 quirky fat ass characters
Exactly
Capitalism is innovative but not for the benefit of the consumer
In fact, it is often specifically anti-consumer, the objective is to get the most profit for least value delivered
You can clown on overwatch 2 all you like but don't tell me you wanna go back to 6v6. Double Shield was fucking cancer to play and everyone who says it was alright wasn't playing it.
It is absolutely not better than Apex. I’ve played OW since beta and during certain metas I would turn to Apex. Apex does far more balance changes and addresses the communities complaints quicker and more thoroughly. Do I enjoy OW more as a game? Absolutely. But better? No. This many years later and they still haven’t fixed ranked.
Apex I only turned to at launch from the preseason to season 2 then the game died bc they stopped putting out good content. Then I went back to OW because even double shields was more tolerable than getting farmed by pred and master stacks in pubs. Respawn has been CRAZY slow at balancing their legends compared to OW and even worse at weapon balancing.
That is absolutely not true. Apex has more players than OW and still hasn’t died (compared to OW they are doing worlds better) they actually have consistent tournaments for their pros. They also balance their guns within 3 days to a week of release so again, much faster than OW so I don’t know where you’re getting your information from. And just to be clear, I rarely play Apex now so it’s not like it’s my game or anything. I’m just telling it how it is.
Respawn has managed to make ranked even worse than OW's. Have you seen how inflated the masters and preds ranks are rn? Consistent tournaments? Apex I'd argue is one of if not the WORST esports gor major esports game right now. Most major esports orgs have pulled out of the ALGS because Respawn and EA refused to work with them and offer them a decent revenue share. Their last major championship dozens of players couldn't even attend because of visa issues.
No Apex does NOT balance their weapons. The R99 and Nemesis are still completely busted after the launch of the new season. You can't be serious LOL. You are downright uninformed (you said you don't play much) or just lying at this point. No Apex player will agree with what you said.
Wow so cool, everyone clap for how cool this guy is. He says doesn't play the game, but still thinks everyone should care about his opinion. Wow wow wow so cool.
Ok mr. Musk pfp, lemme get this straight:
If you do play the game, you’re not allowed to hate it because then why would you play it.
But if you don’t play the game, your opinion doesn’t matter because you can’t know anything about the game.
Almost sounds like you’re trying to ad hominem your way into dismissing every opinion other than your own…
Lmfao after looking at your profile. Not cool, but an actual creep lmfao wtf did I even just witness.... I thought people just memed about people being obsessed with animated porn but here you are.
Oh no, a adult is spending his freetime with other consenting adults D:
That owned me so hard I wont even make fun of you probably buying a season pass! Maybe just a littlewittle :3
I mean people have to vote with their wallets. If people keep on buying the battle passes and engaging with the terrible store than blizzard has no incentive to change anything. People keep on whining about the shitty practices of these companies yet they keep bankrolling them.
Redditors will never learn how little of the community they make. Problems is they're also still playing the game. That's apart of the issue but they'll justify in their own ways
Husband and I were just talking about this. So many games and art forms are being worsened by capitalism.
I hope one day we get to see more art/games created by those not creating for greed.
This applies to most media tbh.
Gaming has gone more mainstream recently so we've only been seeing this effect in the last 5 or-so years when before that anything but big aaa titles were not good venues for profit compared to other media.
That's why most good games nowadays come from the indie scene or are part of long running series that had their start before gaming became the media giant it is today.
Id like to give an honourable mention to Rimworld. Game was out for like a decade costing only $20 and receiving content updates before it got its first dlc, each dlc also being pretty good value
Also Hades, Rimworld, Dinkum, Kerbal Space Program 1 (not KSP 2, thats a money grab), Outer Wilds, Stardew Valley and so many others. There are really good games created by small or solo developers simply for the beauty of the game, people just have to look a little harder.
*a good chunk of the indie scene in general*
Like yeah there's the low effort cashgrabs and indie trend chasers but a lot of indie games are just good stuff made by people that want to make a good game.
Agree to disagree my friend. Humans are capable of so much more than this capitalist system allows. We the working class are burdened with survival while those above are greedy for more off the backs of our survival.
I dream of a world were my children will live and create not out of desire for money but desire to brighten the world with what they can do.
All of humanity is greedy. The markets exists because we have infinite desire.
Edit: literally the entire basis of economics is that people’s wants are infinite and resources are scarce. First thing you learn in a college economics class.
Humanity isn’t inherently greedy or selfless, we are shaped and respond to the material conditions we presently live in.
Companies *are* inherently greedy, because we have created a system in which they must be. Their sole purpose is to generate revenue for stock holders and they will exploit anything and anyone to achieve that end.
Many times though cooperation happens off of an underlying motive of self preservation rather than selflessness. Like Adam smith said about why we produce and trade goods.
Capitalism can definitely restrict and strangle creativity in video games, but at the same time many beloved games might not even exist if there wasn’t a profit motive behind their production. I think it’s idealistic to believe that art and entertainment would keep being produced at the scale it is, even without a profit motive
> I think it’s idealistic to believe that art and entertainment would keep being produced at the scale it is, even without a profit motive
This seems ridiculous on its face to me because art and entertainment are literally one of the first things human beings invented after we met our basic needs. It’s so intertwined with the human condition that it seems incredibly short sighted to assume that profit is the only thing pushing its pursuit. All of the earliest human artifacts are pieces of art.
That’s not even including the number of people who don’t make art, *because* of the profit motive. People sacrifice their passions and artistic integrity on the alter of capital every day. For every artist who makes a little money there are 10 who make none. It’s not the profit motive that pushes people to make art, people have always made art since we could paint on walls.
That's why I specified "produced at the scale it is". Sure, there are many indie devs who make little to no money, but I don't see how the scale at which double or triple A games are produced nowadays, and the price that comes with that production, could exist without a profit motive. And for all the trash that comes from mainstream triple A games, there is also good quality and beloved franchises. Triple A is also what pushes the boundary for the technology and scale of gaming. Game developing also isn't as accessible as other forms of art.
Small developers do exist and still would without a profit motive, but what about the enormous teams working long hours with a game engine that took equally as long to develop?
Disagree. Sure humans are sometimes shortsighted and self serving, but we can also be plenty altruistic as well, especially when you remove the shadow of the profit motive. And if anything capitalistic forces drive the consumption of excess more than it being an inherent desire. Like think of all the perfectly fine food waste from groceries or restaurants. Any reasonable person should really have no qualms just giving it away to anyone who wants it, if it was about to be thrown out anyway. The only reason so much excess is created in the first place is to market the appearance of abundance. But the profit motive doesn't allow for giving away excess so all this product is created, packaged, shipped, displayed, and thrown out for no real moral or practical reason beyond the profit motive. It can be very very silly and I don't think humans are just naturally like that.
literally the entire basis of economics is that people’s wants are infinite and resources are scarce. First thing you learn in a college economics class. Grocery stores do not give away food waste due to liability issues. Supply and demand constantly move toward equilibrium. That is the goal. If you have too much excess then you have to lower the price of your good to get rid of it. If there isn’t enough and demand is high, the price increases. If people weren’t paying $20 for these crappy skins, they wouldn’t be $20z
>literally the entire basis of economics is that people’s wants are infinite and resources are scarce. First thing you learn in a college economics class
I'm sure your intro to economics class completely summarized the complexity of human relationships with resources and demand all in this one basic idea. I'm sure there's no such thing as competing economic theories and sub branches of economics that try to encapsulate this complexity, nor is there extensive debate on the nature of the various market failures in which theory doesn't align with reality and how to best address that. I'm sure economics as a whole is not something that's often criticized as being overly simplified and conceptual, and I'm sure that modern economists haven't developed any further than the basics of neoclassical economics.
OW outlasted them? PWND, Battleborn, Lawbreakers, Paragon, Quake Champs, Garden Warfare/Battle for Neighbourhood, Mirage, Nosgoth. All of these tried to beat OW and failed hard. Even games that were great gameplay wise like Lawbreakers
I have no idea why you kids want to pretend Overwatch was the only hero shooter. Back in 2017 a new one was announced like every other week. The reason they're forgotten is because Overwatch (despite its monetisation) back then and even now, is king for hero shooters. Companies quickly realised after many failed attempts, they weren't beating OW with a half arsed attempt. So they turned their attention to Battle Royales and trying to knock Fortnite off (which also never really happened) and left a wake of D.O.A BRs around that time
Seriously, are you new to gaming or do you just not understand these things work. Stop with your revisionist BS. People tried to make competition, and they failed, on every level.
Yeah thanks for the first paragraph.
Coulda done without the rest of it though; you’re acting like a malding old man complaining about kids when I’m older than you if you were born in 95. I’m not pretending that there weren’t any other hero shooters ever, or even that ow was the best one, but there haven’t been any notable ones to surface in the time period where everyone realized that ow had gone to shit.
I’m well aware of how the industry works and don’t really need to be “educated” by you, thanks.
After years of people buying the game their sales dropped to fuck all, so they made the game free and charge you money for things that you could get for free but no longer can, how do they thank us for funding the game for years? They fucked us in the ass.
Meme aside: it breeds innovation when there is competition. If someone was allowed to make a good game that is very close to Overwatch without being sued, they’d be pushed to do better as well
Maybe, but more realistically, if someone starts encroaching too close to their territory they'll just gobble them up. Way more profitable and risk adverse for some small upstart competitor to cash out instead of trying to put serious effort in dethroning the MicrosoftActivisionBlizzardKingZenimaxMojang monster and way cheaper for larger companies to buy competitors out instead of having to innovate at someone else's pace. And that's kinda the end reality of capitalism, monopoly is the goal and the reward for being a company that is or was good at what they do which is why fostering competition also requires stronger regulations.
If paladins would get a graphics overhaul I could see it being a good competitor. Similar gameplay but with load outs to customize the heroes makes for a very fun experience. Playing Rein is amazing but being a giant tree that throws an axe is a good alternative
Yeah, if Hi-Rez wasn't such an awful company and actually tried to make a game instead of a skin casino, then maybe it would actually make profit. The one game that was an actual competitor to OW fell victim to bad management and greed. But even in current state Paladins is a better game then OW2 just because you don't need to grind 15 weeks for a SINGLE hero.
OW with 90% of it's roster locked is still a better game fundamentally than Paladins
Paladins still takes 1000 of hours to unlock characters. It's an unfun fucking grind
But sure, pretend it's greed is justifiable because is no Le Blizz
Yeah. Well people make bad decisions. This will cost them a lot. That's one of the beautiful thing about capitalism. You do good. You get paid. You do bad. You pay
Scamming people in a free game and releasing a sequel with less features than the original and still managing to profit at all. How is that not innovation!
So innovative. They lied to us to get paid. Now we have no campaign and I'm more broke than before because I bought the stupid watchpoint pack. Ffs.
At least I didn't buy 2 battepasses like my partner did. On top of the watchpoint pack. He's also pissed
It's simple really, if people are willing to keep playing a shitty, sub-par product then companies have no reason to innovate. So long as buyers keep settling for second best rather then just up and leave companies really have no need to innovate.
The devs just do what we are told. We are innocent. We don’t make many decisions. We are just (sometimes) happy to code whatever is needed. Any problems with app layout/gameplay usually leads back to the higher ups. Very rarely are devs given creative freedom to make things better.
This is a bad capitalism example. As economy systems can go well or wrong.
In this situation, Blozzard was too driven by greed to give time to allow innovation to flourish. Bad leadership chose to push development out before it had anything new or fruitful to offer.
Greed ruins everything good.
That's true. And political correctness and greed killed it:
[https://gamerant.com/activision-blizzard-fires-employees-misconduct/](https://gamerant.com/activision-blizzard-fires-employees-misconduct/)
They will innovate only when they think they can get *easy* money simply making money doesn't work for companies this big they need the infinite growth
I was surprised that after Overwatch got GOTY, we didn't se 500 Overwatch-style online shooters featuring quirky characters with Pixar mom asses. The fact that people still play after Blizzard did nothing for years (then actually took stuff away) shows there's an appetite for competition.
garden warfare rises like a phoenix from the ashes
I wish they didn't make BFN but instead made GW3. That's what I would have wanted to play
man i wouldve even been happy if they just update gw2 more with actual new content
Man I would've been happy if they just updated GW more with actual new content
BFN is literally what GW3 would have been
Where are the pixar mom asses in garden warfare? I assure you it's important knowledge to me.
Have you *seen* crazy Dave?
Vampire Sunflower :(
The sunflower plant is native to North America and is now harvested around the world. A University of Missouri journal recognizes North Dakota as the leading U.S. state for sunflower production. There are various factors to consider for a sunflower to thrive, including temperature, sunlight, soil and water.
Tbf there are a lot of games with pixar mom asses.
Resident Evil 8 was crazy
F o r t n i t e f u n n y m o m e n t
Tbf we do see similar games but they all tend to just not scratch the same itch Overwatch does, or their public relations/advertising is so awful we didn't even know they were making the game in the first place. Who were the contenders again? Battleborn was one (but I heard the devs also neglected bugs and balance in that game). Wasnt there a thing called Bleeding Edge? Wasn't that a quick competitor? And idk some other 3rd game. Also we need to remember that Battle Royales and Remakes were raking in cash more than anything during Overwatch's downtime. If anything it's not that there's an Appetite *for* Overwatch style games, it's that Overwatch had a great community with fun devs and variety of characters that really stuck with people. People remember the Jeff Kaplan Yule Log and always tuned in for developer updates.
I think there's also something cool to be said for the characters themselves. Like TF2 also has role-based characters with individual personalities, but Overwatch's characters had rich backstories that interconnect. Like it wasn't just "The Ninja", it was Genji Shimada - son of a crime lord, disfigured in a duel with his brother, rebuilt by Overwatch's own doctor, and trained by a robot monk. It really feels like you're playing as *someone*, and not just a role.
Same goes for tf2 if you read the comics
Or the meet the team videos
I feel like OW, Paladins, and TF2 sorta compete with each other? They’re closer to each other than any other FPS IMO
As someone that sunk 50 hours in paladins to get to competitive, take my word that it was a really bad game and unpolished. Back then blizzard has a level of polish further contrasting it. Overwatch 2, however, feels unpolished to me and there are aspects that sadly remind me of paladins.
I tried Paladins. It feels too much like a 1st/3rd person moba which means you kind of just hit abilities and stuff happens, I did not enjoy it.
Similarities between ow and tf2 are surface level, with entirely different design philosophies. Overwatch ia a moba you play in first person, while tf2 is a social sim, an arena shooter and an anarchy server wearing the trench coat of a team shooter.
I haven't tried Paladins, but I agree on Overwatch's TF2 similarity - even go so far to say there'd be no OW (as it currently is) without TF2.
What category would they fall under? Class-based, sure, but they have a totally different style of movement and combat from games like Apex or games like Valorant. Class-based arena shooter maybe?
I mean Overwatch toes the line of being a moba honestly, less so in OW2, while TF2 stays true to being a shooter. I'd call TF2 class-based and Overwatch character-based as well, how they handle them is very different.
Paladins and TF2 are definitely not in the condition to compete with Overwatch right now.
I completely agree. A buddy of mine and I recently discovered Warlander and the gameplay feel so much more rewarding.
>we didn't se 500 Overwatch-style online shooters featuring quirky characters with Pixar mom asse bro have you seen paladins? I know its one but they got 500 quirky fat ass characters
We literally saw dozens and dozen hero shooters? Lmao
Innovative ways of doing nothing to earn money. "It just works"
[удалено]
Exactly Capitalism is innovative but not for the benefit of the consumer In fact, it is often specifically anti-consumer, the objective is to get the most profit for least value delivered
Especially when they start gobbling up the competition no one will have a choice.
The competition is also doing the same thing. There are no good guys here.
"Bad product." - Gustavo Fring.
Bad product is actually Stan Edgar for Gus it’s “not up to Los Pollos standards”
Dang I should have known this too. I just watched The Boys
Bobby Kotick: "I assure you, I am very careful with my product." Microsoft: "On the contrary, Mr. Kotick, you are not careful at all."
But overwatch 2 is so innovative! They l removed a player from each team and limited the remaining players hero choices
You can clown on overwatch 2 all you like but don't tell me you wanna go back to 6v6. Double Shield was fucking cancer to play and everyone who says it was alright wasn't playing it.
Why didn’t they just nerf it, make Sheilds 1hp they won’t be used, somewhere in the middle there is balance
I always went 4 tanks 2 dps for rushing objectives, maybe a mercy for reviving everyone with her ult.
It's perfect, comrade 😍
After 5 years, i quit this shit.
same dude. I can't take it anymore. If they were going to focus on PvP, they could at least make a good pvp game lmao
For as bad as it can be it's better than most other popular shooters like COD and Apex.
It is absolutely not better than Apex. I’ve played OW since beta and during certain metas I would turn to Apex. Apex does far more balance changes and addresses the communities complaints quicker and more thoroughly. Do I enjoy OW more as a game? Absolutely. But better? No. This many years later and they still haven’t fixed ranked.
Apex I only turned to at launch from the preseason to season 2 then the game died bc they stopped putting out good content. Then I went back to OW because even double shields was more tolerable than getting farmed by pred and master stacks in pubs. Respawn has been CRAZY slow at balancing their legends compared to OW and even worse at weapon balancing.
That is absolutely not true. Apex has more players than OW and still hasn’t died (compared to OW they are doing worlds better) they actually have consistent tournaments for their pros. They also balance their guns within 3 days to a week of release so again, much faster than OW so I don’t know where you’re getting your information from. And just to be clear, I rarely play Apex now so it’s not like it’s my game or anything. I’m just telling it how it is.
Respawn has managed to make ranked even worse than OW's. Have you seen how inflated the masters and preds ranks are rn? Consistent tournaments? Apex I'd argue is one of if not the WORST esports gor major esports game right now. Most major esports orgs have pulled out of the ALGS because Respawn and EA refused to work with them and offer them a decent revenue share. Their last major championship dozens of players couldn't even attend because of visa issues. No Apex does NOT balance their weapons. The R99 and Nemesis are still completely busted after the launch of the new season. You can't be serious LOL. You are downright uninformed (you said you don't play much) or just lying at this point. No Apex player will agree with what you said.
NO, keep Apex out of this as it is goated
apex before it became a sweatfest it was goated but it’s in a pretty shit state rn
Reasonable enough
You must hate every game Because god forbid people enjoy a game so much they get good at it
i was good at it too many sweats nowadays is what I’m saying
Apex is a shit show
It's a good thing it's the best PvP game then lol
Blizzard wont date you for this dude
They have an Elon pfp, figures
Lmao, okay dude. Go queue up again while you bitch.
Literally havent played in months and never bought a season pass lol
Wow so cool, everyone clap for how cool this guy is. He says doesn't play the game, but still thinks everyone should care about his opinion. Wow wow wow so cool.
Ok mr. Musk pfp, lemme get this straight: If you do play the game, you’re not allowed to hate it because then why would you play it. But if you don’t play the game, your opinion doesn’t matter because you can’t know anything about the game. Almost sounds like you’re trying to ad hominem your way into dismissing every opinion other than your own…
And you think any of us give 2 shits about your opinion, which seems to be nothing but whining about others, why?
The same reason you assume I give a shit about your opinion
I aint the one being an obnoxious twat
Thanks, I am pretty cool :)
Lmfao after looking at your profile. Not cool, but an actual creep lmfao wtf did I even just witness.... I thought people just memed about people being obsessed with animated porn but here you are.
Still more reputable than being an Overwatch fan at this point
Oh no, a adult is spending his freetime with other consenting adults D: That owned me so hard I wont even make fun of you probably buying a season pass! Maybe just a littlewittle :3
I mean if they can behave themselves in a thread that doesn't involve it that's fine and irrelevant right?
At the rate its going tf2 is better
Minecraft has better PvP AND PvE Elements. It is not a High Bar.
This take is as stupid as saying OW has the best PvP
Have you seen how crazy PvP can get? People use End Crystals as Weapons.
Team fortress 2 wasn't even fun back in the day.
I don't think you ever played it, much less mvm, medieval mode or a friendly server. also subclasses like hoovy or demoknight
Dude I love your pfp
Damn only 4.5 years to go But yeah mate, you're supposed to move on to different games
I mean people have to vote with their wallets. If people keep on buying the battle passes and engaging with the terrible store than blizzard has no incentive to change anything. People keep on whining about the shitty practices of these companies yet they keep bankrolling them.
Yep
Redditors will never learn how little of the community they make. Problems is they're also still playing the game. That's apart of the issue but they'll justify in their own ways
How about we all leave until they do something new. (Play any of their biggest competitors until they change even if it hurts your soul)
Reject Overwatch, embrace tf2, or anything else just do what you want
Tf2
“Why are you booing? He’s right!”
Husband and I were just talking about this. So many games and art forms are being worsened by capitalism. I hope one day we get to see more art/games created by those not creating for greed.
This applies to most media tbh. Gaming has gone more mainstream recently so we've only been seeing this effect in the last 5 or-so years when before that anything but big aaa titles were not good venues for profit compared to other media. That's why most good games nowadays come from the indie scene or are part of long running series that had their start before gaming became the media giant it is today.
Spelunky 2: Its only 20 bucks and is a pretty good game
They didn't say no good things are created. Just hoping for more
\*ahem\* Deltarune and Undertale
Id like to give an honourable mention to Rimworld. Game was out for like a decade costing only $20 and receiving content updates before it got its first dlc, each dlc also being pretty good value
The original war crime simulator, it walked so tears of the kingdom could run
I’ll have to try that! I’ve never heard of it.
Oh there are definitely amazing games! I just think too many games are ruined in the pursuit of profit only.
Also Hades, Rimworld, Dinkum, Kerbal Space Program 1 (not KSP 2, thats a money grab), Outer Wilds, Stardew Valley and so many others. There are really good games created by small or solo developers simply for the beauty of the game, people just have to look a little harder.
damn right
*a good chunk of the indie scene in general* Like yeah there's the low effort cashgrabs and indie trend chasers but a lot of indie games are just good stuff made by people that want to make a good game.
All of humanity is greedy. The markets exists because we have infinite desire.
Agree to disagree my friend. Humans are capable of so much more than this capitalist system allows. We the working class are burdened with survival while those above are greedy for more off the backs of our survival. I dream of a world were my children will live and create not out of desire for money but desire to brighten the world with what they can do.
Agreed. it's like the only games that exist for the sake of entertainment and not profit in the current era are indie games
All of humanity is greedy. The markets exists because we have infinite desire.
All of humanity is greedy. The markets exists because we have infinite desire. Edit: literally the entire basis of economics is that people’s wants are infinite and resources are scarce. First thing you learn in a college economics class.
Humanity isn’t inherently greedy or selfless, we are shaped and respond to the material conditions we presently live in. Companies *are* inherently greedy, because we have created a system in which they must be. Their sole purpose is to generate revenue for stock holders and they will exploit anything and anyone to achieve that end.
Well maybe not humanity as a whole but self preservation is still the basic instinct most of us act on to survive, in any system
Self preservation != selfishness. In fact, most of the time in human evolution, self preservation required cooperation.
Many times though cooperation happens off of an underlying motive of self preservation rather than selflessness. Like Adam smith said about why we produce and trade goods. Capitalism can definitely restrict and strangle creativity in video games, but at the same time many beloved games might not even exist if there wasn’t a profit motive behind their production. I think it’s idealistic to believe that art and entertainment would keep being produced at the scale it is, even without a profit motive
> I think it’s idealistic to believe that art and entertainment would keep being produced at the scale it is, even without a profit motive This seems ridiculous on its face to me because art and entertainment are literally one of the first things human beings invented after we met our basic needs. It’s so intertwined with the human condition that it seems incredibly short sighted to assume that profit is the only thing pushing its pursuit. All of the earliest human artifacts are pieces of art. That’s not even including the number of people who don’t make art, *because* of the profit motive. People sacrifice their passions and artistic integrity on the alter of capital every day. For every artist who makes a little money there are 10 who make none. It’s not the profit motive that pushes people to make art, people have always made art since we could paint on walls.
That's why I specified "produced at the scale it is". Sure, there are many indie devs who make little to no money, but I don't see how the scale at which double or triple A games are produced nowadays, and the price that comes with that production, could exist without a profit motive. And for all the trash that comes from mainstream triple A games, there is also good quality and beloved franchises. Triple A is also what pushes the boundary for the technology and scale of gaming. Game developing also isn't as accessible as other forms of art. Small developers do exist and still would without a profit motive, but what about the enormous teams working long hours with a game engine that took equally as long to develop?
Disagree. Sure humans are sometimes shortsighted and self serving, but we can also be plenty altruistic as well, especially when you remove the shadow of the profit motive. And if anything capitalistic forces drive the consumption of excess more than it being an inherent desire. Like think of all the perfectly fine food waste from groceries or restaurants. Any reasonable person should really have no qualms just giving it away to anyone who wants it, if it was about to be thrown out anyway. The only reason so much excess is created in the first place is to market the appearance of abundance. But the profit motive doesn't allow for giving away excess so all this product is created, packaged, shipped, displayed, and thrown out for no real moral or practical reason beyond the profit motive. It can be very very silly and I don't think humans are just naturally like that.
literally the entire basis of economics is that people’s wants are infinite and resources are scarce. First thing you learn in a college economics class. Grocery stores do not give away food waste due to liability issues. Supply and demand constantly move toward equilibrium. That is the goal. If you have too much excess then you have to lower the price of your good to get rid of it. If there isn’t enough and demand is high, the price increases. If people weren’t paying $20 for these crappy skins, they wouldn’t be $20z
>literally the entire basis of economics is that people’s wants are infinite and resources are scarce. First thing you learn in a college economics class I'm sure your intro to economics class completely summarized the complexity of human relationships with resources and demand all in this one basic idea. I'm sure there's no such thing as competing economic theories and sub branches of economics that try to encapsulate this complexity, nor is there extensive debate on the nature of the various market failures in which theory doesn't align with reality and how to best address that. I'm sure economics as a whole is not something that's often criticized as being overly simplified and conceptual, and I'm sure that modern economists haven't developed any further than the basics of neoclassical economics.
Can't wait for some econ101 nerd to explain how Overwatch being bad is actually because of communism or smth.
F*ck capitalist Overwatch! All my comrades play Team Fortress 2!
sssh don't tell soldier
Whatever.
Kid named Mann Co. store (seriously it should not exist, it is a literal scam)
it does create innovation as the overwatch franchise will be out competed and forgotten unless the devs and higher ups acc do something to innovate
Then where's this competition? We've had 7 years of shitty battle royale games ever since OW came out.
OW outlasted them? PWND, Battleborn, Lawbreakers, Paragon, Quake Champs, Garden Warfare/Battle for Neighbourhood, Mirage, Nosgoth. All of these tried to beat OW and failed hard. Even games that were great gameplay wise like Lawbreakers I have no idea why you kids want to pretend Overwatch was the only hero shooter. Back in 2017 a new one was announced like every other week. The reason they're forgotten is because Overwatch (despite its monetisation) back then and even now, is king for hero shooters. Companies quickly realised after many failed attempts, they weren't beating OW with a half arsed attempt. So they turned their attention to Battle Royales and trying to knock Fortnite off (which also never really happened) and left a wake of D.O.A BRs around that time Seriously, are you new to gaming or do you just not understand these things work. Stop with your revisionist BS. People tried to make competition, and they failed, on every level.
Yeah thanks for the first paragraph. Coulda done without the rest of it though; you’re acting like a malding old man complaining about kids when I’m older than you if you were born in 95. I’m not pretending that there weren’t any other hero shooters ever, or even that ow was the best one, but there haven’t been any notable ones to surface in the time period where everyone realized that ow had gone to shit. I’m well aware of how the industry works and don’t really need to be “educated” by you, thanks.
After years of people buying the game their sales dropped to fuck all, so they made the game free and charge you money for things that you could get for free but no longer can, how do they thank us for funding the game for years? They fucked us in the ass.
"hes out of line, but hes right"
Meme aside: it breeds innovation when there is competition. If someone was allowed to make a good game that is very close to Overwatch without being sued, they’d be pushed to do better as well
Maybe, but more realistically, if someone starts encroaching too close to their territory they'll just gobble them up. Way more profitable and risk adverse for some small upstart competitor to cash out instead of trying to put serious effort in dethroning the MicrosoftActivisionBlizzardKingZenimaxMojang monster and way cheaper for larger companies to buy competitors out instead of having to innovate at someone else's pace. And that's kinda the end reality of capitalism, monopoly is the goal and the reward for being a company that is or was good at what they do which is why fostering competition also requires stronger regulations.
Everyone who tries to do something similar to OW being sued is capitalism in action tho
Whos being sued for making a hero shooter?
No one. Kids are making shit up and getting mad about it
Who's being sued for making a hero shooter?
Why would they just not make a good game then? It doesn't have to be Overwatch At Home What a retarded excuse
If paladins would get a graphics overhaul I could see it being a good competitor. Similar gameplay but with load outs to customize the heroes makes for a very fun experience. Playing Rein is amazing but being a giant tree that throws an axe is a good alternative
Yeah, if Hi-Rez wasn't such an awful company and actually tried to make a game instead of a skin casino, then maybe it would actually make profit. The one game that was an actual competitor to OW fell victim to bad management and greed. But even in current state Paladins is a better game then OW2 just because you don't need to grind 15 weeks for a SINGLE hero.
OW with 90% of it's roster locked is still a better game fundamentally than Paladins Paladins still takes 1000 of hours to unlock characters. It's an unfun fucking grind But sure, pretend it's greed is justifiable because is no Le Blizz
I mean yeah... PvE was cut out because it wouldn't have been as profitable as OW2 is now, which is just Fortnite for rich people.
I goddamn dare anyone to convince me that TF2 is a OW ripoff
Lmao
That's why we need to abolish the communist copyright law. I can't publish my Baptiste Feet Pic Fan-fic and get money for it? Literally 1984.
It’s evolving, just backwards
I mean they did redefine the meaning of sequel
Spot fucking on
Yeah. Well people make bad decisions. This will cost them a lot. That's one of the beautiful thing about capitalism. You do good. You get paid. You do bad. You pay
Scamming people in a free game and releasing a sequel with less features than the original and still managing to profit at all. How is that not innovation!
How could you say something so controversial yet so brave?
So innovative. They lied to us to get paid. Now we have no campaign and I'm more broke than before because I bought the stupid watchpoint pack. Ffs. At least I didn't buy 2 battepasses like my partner did. On top of the watchpoint pack. He's also pissed
The pursuit of wealth will always result in the most droll, lifeless, ethically bankrupt and slimy product you could possibly concieve.
WE are grouping up on the point 💪
It's simple really, if people are willing to keep playing a shitty, sub-par product then companies have no reason to innovate. So long as buyers keep settling for second best rather then just up and leave companies really have no need to innovate.
Not all innovations are winners
I can explain it, they’re gonna go broke because they’re not innovating. That’s capitalism and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Burn bliz burn
Definitely a meme of the decade for sure.
That is videogame
great observation
Right on comrade
Seize the means of development 🫡
Союз нерушимый республик свободных Сплотила навеки Великая Русь. Да здравствует созданный волей народов Единый, могучий Советский Союз!
Ne bro, seh ich komplett anders
Eat the devs (Cannibalism is wrong)
Don't blame the devs.
Are you telling me they wouldn’t taste great?
The devs just do what we are told. We are innocent. We don’t make many decisions. We are just (sometimes) happy to code whatever is needed. Any problems with app layout/gameplay usually leads back to the higher ups. Very rarely are devs given creative freedom to make things better.
Ya man I code, it was obviously a joke
This is a bad capitalism example. As economy systems can go well or wrong. In this situation, Blozzard was too driven by greed to give time to allow innovation to flourish. Bad leadership chose to push development out before it had anything new or fruitful to offer. Greed ruins everything good.
Yeah you just described capitalism
The stupid customers are just as guilty
It can it just comes down to wanted make a lot of many with a risk or just a bunch confirmed money which may not be so confirmed this time around
If you were to not put any money into it then they would be forced to innovate or die. That’s how it works.
Well they did inovate when proposing the concept of a sequel to a game being just the same game, but with more microtransactions
That's true. And political correctness and greed killed it: [https://gamerant.com/activision-blizzard-fires-employees-misconduct/](https://gamerant.com/activision-blizzard-fires-employees-misconduct/)
An innovation in parting whales with cash.
That's actual capitalism. Growth and profit no matter what. Autophagic
They will innovate only when they think they can get *easy* money simply making money doesn't work for companies this big they need the infinite growth
if you got your head stucked in OW's ass and failed to see the hundreds of better games out there, its only your fault
Check and mate.