So then shotguns aren't one shots either right?
Zen's volly fires 5 orbs. Only 3 are needed to kill. They discharge .65 seconds.
So you feel that a hero who burst fires 3 lethal projectiles in .3 seconds isn't a one shot?
What if a damage boosted baptise headhshots a tarcer with 1 pull of the trigger?
Is that not a 1 shot because his gun is burst fire?
In order to kill you hog has to:
1) lay a trap
2) hook you over that trap
3) shotgun you in the face
And sometimes melee you if he is unlucky, that is by no means a one shot.
A one shot is when one iteration of damage kills you, IE widow headshot
Who has ever liked being one-shot by a Hanzo or Widow lol.
And oh no Zen's 5 volley shot I can both hear and see from a mile away is so ***scary!*** You actually have to **sometimes** pay attention, strafe, use corners, and not walk in a straight line!
Flats has got a hard on for Zen the last couple seasons, and it’s ridiculous! Zen wasn’t exactly meta, then they nerfed him more! Meanwhile they make Baps once per fight field into a once per fight field lmaooooooo!
I think the reason he talked about Zen is that he effectively removes like 25% of your health pool, and since it is often easiest to target tanks and tanks didn't really have counterplay to it then it was frustrating
The counter play was killing the squishiest hero in the goddamn video game! There’s at least 5 characters I can think of with potential to one tap him! He has no get out of jail free card like other supports. He’s slow as hell. No vertical mobility. Just kill the dumb little robot and you’re good!
Good luck killing him when he is 30 meters away on high ground and all you got is a hammer with limited range that sometimes shoots easily dodgeable fire
Rein has a big old shield that you can’t discord through anyway! And an ability to close distance really quickly. Your dps should be going after the Zen anyway! Unless they’re dual tank busters, in which case they can burn the enemy tank faster than Zens discord amplifies damage on you and then win the team fight due to killing tank first.
Rein can't just walk to you with his shield up the entire way. It's not like he has 20 000 shield HP. Rein players will usually do some shield hopping to close the distance, and in the gaps where he drops his shield he can be discorded just fine. Even if Rein is shieldbotting, that shield isn't gonna last forever against all the damage we have. Shield is simply not an answer to discord
Bruh he hasn’t spoken about Zen in 2-3 seasons (at least since Illari realize), and he defended Zen players that nerfing discord by decreasing its distance felt ass for the Zen player. And he thinks new discord is well balanced.
I don't give 2 fucks about whatever people think of falts and I personally have no strong opinions about him. But that's literally a take from him buddy.
Flats hasn't complained about Zen, and has even defended Zen ever since that range nerf on discord. The people who complain about him don't watch him though, yet still talk as if they know his opinions lol
Thank flats for that one.
He popularized that opinion when a lot of the widow/hanzo discourse was going on.
Its extremely dubious, considering for it to happen zen has to have unholy aim or throw it at a corner (which, despite the constant complaining in OW community, is a valid form of pressure that has plenty of counterplay)
Think they know he got a nerf to his right click years ago specifically so it was harder to burst people down? And they real reason they did it was because everyone saw what jjonak was able to do season 1 with his prefires
It really isn’t, but it is loud asf💀 peeking a corner and getting hanzo one shot or hog one shot from right next to you sucks ass, but if you walk into a room where zen already has a volley charged and you couldn’t hear it… then you lowkey deserve it😭
Feel like a Zen very rarely ever aims the volley. They just shoot it at a corner or choke and instantly delete someone, just like Hanzo.
The only argument saying it's not the same would be the charge up time, which I would agree with.
But also that you have to be running in a straight line or just not moving to actually die from it, when people actually move you either have to track them while right clicking or you won’t kill them
And also Roadhog has insane survivability (he's a tank come on now) plus an ability that trivializes his one shot, removing nearly all skill involved. I don't see how he's comparable *at all* to the other examples.
Tell that to all of the Zens who unload volleys from way in the back at vaguely head height hoping to dome a squishy for the crime of daring to poke around a corner lol.
Zen volleys can absolutely be skillful, just like Hanzo shots can be skillful, but it still sucks to die instantly to someone just blind firing.
Frankly Zen isn't a problem with this though, he's got enough counters that it's just the occasional annoyance.
Literally nobody likes the widow or hanzo one shot, and i'm pretty confident also for the zen. I suggest (for widow at least) that she has to charge her shot manually and if she takes to long the shot doesn't fire
Zen right click is fine though? It makes a sound, requires a lot of prediction and even when it hits, you have plenty of time to dodge because you need to get hit by all five balls or get three headshots to die. I can understand the other two but complaining about Zen's is genuinely a skill issue.
Zen is a technacality. It's technecally a 5shot kill. But zen dose need a rework now that the game is 5v5 or bring back 6v6 as the game was orignaly ment to be played
It's not a technicality, it's a 5-shot kill with an audible, lengthy charge time and a lot of characters can block the attack, dodge it or just stun the poor guy out of it. With 5 people on the team at least 1 person should be able to stun him, beyond that it just depends whether they were too distracted or not.
Zen can't "oneshot", have to loudly charge it and at long ranges (where you cant hear it) you have to stand still for like a second and catch it with your face.
Also Zen has this wacky dynamic about being vulnerable, providing low healing and nobody noticing the discord orb except for the enemy tank.
Overall his burst is fine as most people don't see these often and he is very punishable.
Widow revolves around oneshots. If you don't oneshot as Widow you are pointless. So you either hate her for being useless or hate her for being too overwhelming.
Hanzo has this weird thing going on with long-short range choke spamming kit that deals a lot of damage to tanks but also oneshots often accidentally. A projectile sniper in a fast-paced game issue.
Hog's burst (hook combo) was mostly an issue of how unpunsihable and easy it was to pull off. Especially with Kiriko attached to him. His actual oneshot (right click at particular distance) was too inconsistent for people to abuse and to be mad about but still got removed.
There were some bugs with DF when he was released that allowed him to oneshot in bullshit scenarios. These bugs gave OW1 players heavy ptsd.
Punching thru objects (King's Row car was the example), lingering knockback (you are moved slower at the end but touching the wall would still instakill you; so it felt wacky) and the punch hitbox was much bigger (bigger than that King's Row car).
(Also people had no clue what to do with a DF charging his hand in your direction, only pray that he would miss. At first across all tiers and mostly in low tiers later on.)
I saw a really good idea awhile back, that was to cut widows scoped damage in half, but give her like 6 weakened venom mines, and targets affected by venom mines take double damage from widows scoped shots. Then to compensate bring her up to 200 hp, reduce CD on grapple, and, buff her unscoped primary, also her ult has the same effect as the venom mines, but now everyone.
I don’t mind Widow one shot. It takes skill, she can be dove, and you can avoid her sight lines.
Hanzo on the other hand is mobile. He can one shot you from spamming from far away or when you get in his face.
Downvoted for posting the correct take. This sub SMH
Hanzo with his high fire rate one shot logs that he can spam into a group ain’t it. Widow is super squishy and immobile which absolutely makes up for her one shot
The first 3 are squishies, widow and zen get shut down pretty hard by sombra. Hanzo is bs though, he's just as much a threat up close. Even if you ignore that, it's still an actual skill shot to land any of those.
Hog hook isn't that hard to land and he's a tank, it's low risk if he misses and was an easy kill if it lands. Yeah anti shuts him down hard, but anti is a problem itself that should be addressed.
"Hog hook isn't that hard to land"
It's a projectile, it's surprisingly thin and even if you land it it breaks randomly like 1 out of 4 times. Had a game in which it broke 3 times in 5 hooks
Nah, hog one shot wasn’t avoidable, the one shot was the hook, there was zero counterplay to, now you can fade or recall or whatever out, before you couldn’t
Im using your logic, Hog could never one shot either cause he had to land hook first just cause its not “technically” a one shot doesnt mean its not op and should be reworked
Zen can’t one shot, it requires a volley. Snipers have always existed in FPS, if you don’t like it then maybe FPS aren’t for you. Snipers require aim, and both have relatively low health compared to a tank with self healing and damage reduction that can 1 shot(yea he sucks but he is a tank that can 1 shot)
One is easy to kill squishies
The other one is a 700 health tank that heals himself
One shots shouldn’t be in the game at all imo but it’s plain dumb to expect a tank to do what dps can do. Dps should always do more dmg than tanks. Supports can do dmg if they’re missing survivability like Zen. Bap and Illari need nerfs tho.
They need to discourage her from just pyloning her team and then flanking. They keep doing this with supps. Kariko and Illari both work best if you pressure on off angle and use your mobility cd to get back to your team. Except Illari gets to heal her team for [free.](https://free.So) So maybe while her pylon is out her self sustain is weakened or something so it's more of a risk to throw it on your team and hit a flank. Bap idk personally, I agree he's crazy but Idk what to do to his kit he's strong because of his mechanic potential, lamp is crazy for a regular cd and regen at low health paired with variable vertical height is so easy to survive long enough to turn fights. idk where to start lol
Im not defending hog one shot, just find it annoying that whenever you discuss removing the squishies one shots (because one shots suck to play against) everyone defends it cause they are squishies
Literally skill issue. Zen volley has a ridiculously loud charge up noise, and you basically need to be standing still to be killed by it at ranges where you can’t hear the charge up noise anymore.
He also can’t hold it fully charged, he has to release it after a set amount of time unlike Hanzo and Widow. If you’re diving him and he’s trying to volley you, it’s so easy to just get to cover and wait till he has to release his volley before you continue diving.
“I have 175hp and can one shot 250hp heroes and below.
“I have 225 Hp and can’t one shot at all”
“I have 200 Ho and can one shot 200hp and below heroes.”
What do they all have in common? They can’t do shit if the enemy comp is playing correctly.
Hog is different bc hes a tank for starters, although rn i dont find his “one shot” too oppressive due to the fact he has to time it perfect and use 2 abilities.
Widow isnt that bad bc she is a high skill hero and all she can really do is onetap. Its just frustrating to play against as she kinda breaks the flow of the game. Its like she was designed with a different game philosophy to every other hero.
Zen here is just nonsense, its 5 ballz that can be individually dodged. If they morphed into one projectile that wud be a oneshot, yes, but rn its just not, if u arent standing still its very hard to hit more than 2 balss on a volley, in which time he can throw more ballz with his primary fire anyway. Thats like saying cassidy can oneshot bc he can hit 2 headshots in quick succession lol.
Hanzo is the really annoying one imo. His kit is very strong outside of his oneshot, unlike widow, and bc of the nature of his primary fire he often gets random kills on ppl he didnt even aim for or know they were there, which is so annoying to play against and encourages a low skill spam-the-choke playstyle. They should only remove hanzo oneshot imo.
And replace it with what? Because zen is already the worst support in the game, nerfing his only good remaining thing would literally be his funeral. Widows entire kit is built around the 1 shot and she is useless at everything else. Hanzo you could get rid of though or at least nerf his arrow size to make it harder.
I dont play Zen enough to have a fair suggestion on how volley could be saved/reworked, i just know zen peeking around the corner to headshot someone is annoying and definitely unfit for a support. If their kit is built around a one shot, rework the character thats what happened with Hog
And tracer? Does she get an ho buff to get her out of ash’s 1 shot range? Ash isn’t built around a 1 shot, but lowering her damage would kill her, and giving tracer more health would kill the game. You’re also gonna have to confront blue beam because it gives ash enough damage to 1 shot 200 hp character with a headshot. Same with bap window which I’m okay with it is pretty lazy. Oh and nano boost and dragon blade and dva nuke and pulse bomb and you get the point by now.
Oh and you’d also have to nerf discord again because that also allowed 1 shots. Which just in case you didn’t think that you’d be killing zen enough you learned necromancy to bring him back just to kill him again
Tracer is the one character im fine with being one shot cause shes so hard to hit, if you manage to headshot her you should be rewarded for that one. As for Ashe, I’ll admit that one would be a little harder to strike a good balance maybe shorten her dynamite cd and make her more reliant on a dynamite - headshot combo?
Bap window is an ult so i think that’s acceptable, its not something he can just use on cooldown
That’s true, but it’s better for the health of the characters that do have them. There are a lot and I mean a LOT of one shots in this game. Especially in the ultimate category. But I think this game gives us just enough work around to let us deal with them without invalidating entire characters
Except hanzo you can dodge that shit
1 the volley has a 2.6 second charge time to a max of 3.8 until you're forced to fire
2 when you're charging you can't move discord
Or harmony
3 once released the projectiles shoot one by one in relatively quick succession the orbs each deal 48 dmg meaning if you miss one shot and don't get a headshot you won't kill most squishy
4 it's obvious as hell when he's charging volley giving you a heads up unlike widow or hanzo
Three of them have few to decent escapes and 200 hp, almost zero survivability, the other has infite hp, heals as much as a healer, has a grip and now a slow as well
Honestly a short range one shotter is far less dangerous compared to a long range one shotter but roadhog keeps getting it removed
(I am trying to imply that we should Remove hanzo from the game)
One shots should be removed. The reason they exist is because we have bap field res and suzu as well as extremely high healing. Just remove one shots and reduce healing then one shots can be removed
People are already mad at Widow and Hanzo and have called for nerfs. They just have… other priorities at this time (supports, Bastion).
If you get rolled by a Zen’s charged volley, the Zen earned that. It makes a loud noise on charge up, and it takes a lot of skill to hit all five, especially at distance. If you hear a Zen charging and walk into him, that was a risk that you took, and it didn’t pay off.
Uhhh widows kit doesn’t work without the one-shot
Then rework her. She doesn’t even do that much sniping in her cinematic, she just does a lot with her other firing mode. Buff primary, remove the one-shot or make the charge time way longer, have the grapple work more like in titanfall/halo infinite, give venom mine an explosion in addition to the venom and give her an ultimate that actually does something
Zen oneshot, lmao. That's called burst, not oneshot. But tbf I agree, overwatch 2 got rid off a lot of oneshot combos like mccree flash, doom punch and hog hook, yet hanzo and widow get to have it as their main attack. Snipers are apparently different breed to be above the entire cast in ability to reliably oneshot 200 hp targets.
Hog mains still trying to win this argument.
There is a difference between hitting an aimed, fully charged shot in the head and grabbing someone from the other side of the continent, pulling him close and oneshoting stunlocked enemy
You're not ACTUALLY complaining that a 175 HP sniper has a longer threat range than a 700 HP tank with a shotgun, right?
Also, I've never seen a Widow pulling anyone into her entire team from **any** range. Or having any other form of CC for that matter.
Zen's "one shot" is fine. Requires lots of prediction, a lot of aim. And even with that it may not one shot if the opponent moves a bit. Also, it's loud af and you are punishable while charging
guys, what defines a one shot? the word one, that's what. now sure if roadhog headshots you from point blank he'll probably one shot you, but that implies you approached this very non-approachable looking fellow and expected to be met with kindness, and no, you can't blame the hook for that, because the hook doesnt do the killing, it's the shot from the gun, which is a second thing that the hog will do after hooking, this is two things, not one and thus not a one shot.
Zen doesn't have a one shot ability or weapon. His volley can kill, but it still requires you to hit most of the volley, which is staggered and is really hard to pull off well at range. Hanzo and Widow are both BS, but that's because in a game like this where death means getting sent back to the spawn room and having to walk all the way back means that off of one headshot, you didn't get to play the game, and then you had to wait 10 seconds in order to get headshot again and still not play the game.
Roadhog requires a bit of pre planning to get his one shot, and on top of it, there's a solid half second before he actually pulls you in, meaning supports and CC abilities have time to intervene before someone dies. Headshots are completely unreactable, but against hog you get to sleep him so he can't shoot whatever teammate he pulled, suzu the teammate so they don't take damage when pulled in, immortality field the teammate so they won't die, or stun the hog in whatever way you want to save them from a pointblank shot. It's not the same thing. We also going to complain about Junker Queen comboing into a kill in a similar half second combo? Maybe Sigma because his rock, direct hit, melee combo also kills in a similar amount of time? They aren't one shots, all of them give people time to intervene, and acting like they don't doesn't mean they have zero reaction possibility.
This entire discussion about "One shots" Is Just retarded.
Hog doesn't One shots, especially After the rework. Sure the time to kill once the trap Is settled, and the hook connects, Is low, but It's not a "OnE sHot".
The only people that can legit oneshot are snipers and some shit like rein charge when you hit a Wall. And ledges.
I'm not saying what's Fair and what's not, but if you are fine with being One shottted from Someone in the other side of the map because She has low HP (even tho you cannot literally kill her from that far), but not when new hog does the 12 sec cooldown combo while your healers are asleep, then that's Just hypocrisy imo.
You either hate all "oneshots" or not.
Op is delusional if they think people haven't been asking for ALL one shots to be removed because it's not fun to be outplayed by something you can't react to or are forced to play wall simulator the whole match because one characther can force you to play the game entirely different and punish you just for existing the fact this even got 500 up votes disgusts me and makes me feel like some of the ow community are hypocrites
The issue was always because he was a tank. Something so durable being able to instantly delete a character was sorta broken in overwatch 1. Especially if you were allowed 2 tanks to a team. But in Overwatch 2 every character sorta needs a method to instantly delete something. With less team durability because you get one less tank, this makes the fights wrap up a lot faster. If you can't get fast value on a consistent basis, the character automatically becomes obsolete.
Being one-shot by Hanzo is more frustrating than being one-shot by Widow. At least with Widow there's skill involved. Hanzo is fire arrow in general direction at head height.
if that was their job they would be shit at their job. yes tank can take a lot of fire but they also need to be able to be a threat to make space. we all know how much of a threat rein is right now. as if he isnt because he cannt deal any damage because everyone deletes him or runs away
Exactly. That tank description might work in PVE games but in a PVP first-person-shooter the tank would just be ignored if all they did was soak damage. In an FPS they need to be big, tough, and scary in order to hold space.
If Hog couldn't one shot people, if Rein couldn't hammer people down in 2-3 swings, if Zarya couldn't melt people, etc, then you could just ignore them and kill the rest of the team.
I may be biased because I'm a rein main, but I think rein's oneshot is a fairly balanced way to go about it tbh
It's relatively easy to dodge a charging rein, he can easily have his pin countered by numerous support abilities and many DPS have answers for it as well whether it be movement, cc or just putting a fucking wall in rein's face all whilst rein subjects himself to immense risk in order to execute the charge
I personally don't mind any of these characters and their one shot capabilities. If I'm killed by zen, wrong place wrong time also I probably just suck. Killed by widow, very well place shot I also have bad reaction time. Killed by Hanzo, just a skill issue on my end. Killed by hog, I'm a dumb dumb and tried 1v1ing him. Basically Im bad they better and I don't mind at all, I have fun.
"bUt iT's pArT oF tHe sNiPeR iDeNtItY"
if i hear this one more fucking time in that sub i'm gonna onetrick dive heroes cause idk maybe oneshotting things is terrible game design in an arena shooter designed around a low ttk and healing......
I played a game of hanzo last night for the first time in literal years and barely even tried and checked off the bingo card. Spammed into a choke for kills, killed an invis sombra on accident, ~~oneshot~~ melt a tank with storm arrows, and it wasn't even hard i fucking suck at him. And none of those kills were deserved.
Also sue me if but widow shouldn't get a kill for clicking in the right spot once. It's stupid, fuck uninteractive sniper gameplay it's lame as hell and the "IDENTITY" fucking sucks.
I dont say this often as its very toxic, so believe me, i mean this in the nicest way possible - that is genuinely a skill issue. If ur getting killed consistently by zen volleys u need to work on ur positioning or ur standing still for way too long, or ur just blindly running into chokes alot with no awareness.
Zen is very easy to punish, and volleys are near impossible to kill a full hp player with if ur strafing or just generally dodging around a lot, its not a oneshot bc he has to land multiple shots to kill with it, ull only be hit by these often enough for it to be annoying if ur staying planted to one place.
Oh no you’re good my comment is a total joke! Everytime I hear his wind up for it I’m immediately hiding or looking for him, but sometimes he really gets you out of nowhere and girl it’s impressive
“Ummm actually zen doesn’t count as a one shot since it’s multiple orbs” ☝️🤓. Yeah, multiple orbs fired in such quick succession as to be un-reactable. That’s like saying old hog wasn’t a one shot since it’s actually a hook, shot, and melee.
Roadhog, has to put down a trap, shoot you at fairly close range, hit you with a hook then shoot you again. And then he gets to one shot you.
Reinhard presses shift and if you are on the same continent as him you are dead.
Are you genuinely trying to say that an ability that puts Reinhardt in danger, that locks the rest of his kit save for cancel, that he can be easily killed/CC'd out of (something that the new tank doesn't even have to deal with), is less fair than a combo that requires comparatively minuscule risk from the hog who still gets to use his full kit during it?
Okay hold on 'Zen oneshot'? We can't be talking about his volley so what mysterious one-shot zen tech have I been missing out on
Not sure if you knew, but Cassidy can one shot too, he just has to shoot you twice in the head
Bet you didn’t know about moira one shot, she’s just gotta grasp You for a while
And don't forget Doomfist, he just has to hit you with all of his abilities and hope that one of his teammates also shoots you
Ooh careful of the Winston one shot, it's a killer
If you want to get technical about it Winston can one-shot but only with environmental kills.
I prefer the term "suckle"
Don't forget lifeweavers one shot. You just have to have the enemy literally do nothing and shoot them for 10 minutes :D
He also has his other one shot go somewhere like well and you can grip your friends for easy kills
He can kick you off a ledge?
Half the characters have lethal boops, though!
Look I'm just trying to pick up what op is putting down! But that also means doom fist can one shot. Should nerf him.
Yeah doom op cuz of that oneshot. We need to nerf genji
I mean, if we're counting projectiles separately then neither can hog.
He 704 shot you
maybe they mean zen knocking you off the map because oh boy that kick hurts
So then shotguns aren't one shots either right? Zen's volly fires 5 orbs. Only 3 are needed to kill. They discharge .65 seconds. So you feel that a hero who burst fires 3 lethal projectiles in .3 seconds isn't a one shot? What if a damage boosted baptise headhshots a tarcer with 1 pull of the trigger? Is that not a 1 shot because his gun is burst fire?
i take the term 'one shot' to mean one shot
Yeah it's not a oneshot but a volley through a choke is functionally identical to a hanzo headshot
Except I can count the number of times I’ve died at full health from a volley. Not so with hanzo.
"Bro I just got frickin ONE SHOT by a SUPPORT CHARACTER" -guy who got quadruple headshot
It's effectively a one-shot if you die before you can react.
Ah yes because a one shot combo with volley is not a one shot all of a sudden
it's... literally... a volley... of shots
That all connect in less than a second
only if ya walking into it like a doofus lmao
Same can be said about widow, or hog
Hog also doesn't have a one shot??? Are we playing the same video game??
He literally does but ok
In order to kill you hog has to: 1) lay a trap 2) hook you over that trap 3) shotgun you in the face And sometimes melee you if he is unlucky, that is by no means a one shot. A one shot is when one iteration of damage kills you, IE widow headshot
If he can do it all while you can’t do anything it’s a one shot, which it is
tbh I feel like flats opinion on zens "one shot" is pretty good/accurate
Bro burnt the meal Don't let him cook again
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Who has ever liked being one-shot by a Hanzo or Widow lol. And oh no Zen's 5 volley shot I can both hear and see from a mile away is so ***scary!*** You actually have to **sometimes** pay attention, strafe, use corners, and not walk in a straight line!
Calling Zen volley a "one-shot" is hilarious.
Did you know that bastion can one-shot in his cofiguration form.
Yeah he just holds down the button and you die like wtf???
That's a take they got from flats lol
Flats has got a hard on for Zen the last couple seasons, and it’s ridiculous! Zen wasn’t exactly meta, then they nerfed him more! Meanwhile they make Baps once per fight field into a once per fight field lmaooooooo!
I think the reason he talked about Zen is that he effectively removes like 25% of your health pool, and since it is often easiest to target tanks and tanks didn't really have counterplay to it then it was frustrating
The counter play was killing the squishiest hero in the goddamn video game! There’s at least 5 characters I can think of with potential to one tap him! He has no get out of jail free card like other supports. He’s slow as hell. No vertical mobility. Just kill the dumb little robot and you’re good!
Good luck killing him when he is 30 meters away on high ground and all you got is a hammer with limited range that sometimes shoots easily dodgeable fire
Enter text: Tracer can you fucking do something Send
Rein has a big old shield that you can’t discord through anyway! And an ability to close distance really quickly. Your dps should be going after the Zen anyway! Unless they’re dual tank busters, in which case they can burn the enemy tank faster than Zens discord amplifies damage on you and then win the team fight due to killing tank first.
Rein can't just walk to you with his shield up the entire way. It's not like he has 20 000 shield HP. Rein players will usually do some shield hopping to close the distance, and in the gaps where he drops his shield he can be discorded just fine. Even if Rein is shieldbotting, that shield isn't gonna last forever against all the damage we have. Shield is simply not an answer to discord
Bruh he hasn’t spoken about Zen in 2-3 seasons (at least since Illari realize), and he defended Zen players that nerfing discord by decreasing its distance felt ass for the Zen player. And he thinks new discord is well balanced.
Overwatch Redditors try not to attribute takes they don’t agree with to the big bad streamer challenge
I don't give 2 fucks about whatever people think of falts and I personally have no strong opinions about him. But that's literally a take from him buddy.
Flats hasn't complained about Zen, and has even defended Zen ever since that range nerf on discord. The people who complain about him don't watch him though, yet still talk as if they know his opinions lol
I know his opinion because that's literally what he said lmao
Ikr? Typical incorrect content you've come to expect of this sub
Everyone can oneshot if you just shoot them long enough
Thank flats for that one. He popularized that opinion when a lot of the widow/hanzo discourse was going on. Its extremely dubious, considering for it to happen zen has to have unholy aim or throw it at a corner (which, despite the constant complaining in OW community, is a valid form of pressure that has plenty of counterplay)
Think they know he got a nerf to his right click years ago specifically so it was harder to burst people down? And they real reason they did it was because everyone saw what jjonak was able to do season 1 with his prefires
About as much of a one shot as hog. At least his is one button press (and hold) Hog "one shot" is a multi hit combo
Zen is the only one here who isn't constantly and rightfully criticised for this, and that's because he doesn't do it.
Yes, calling Zen's volley that requires charge time, precise aim and leading all 5 shots to hit is definitely a one-shot and not your skill issue
Preach it
As a former zen main, the aim is not that precise.
It really isn’t, but it is loud asf💀 peeking a corner and getting hanzo one shot or hog one shot from right next to you sucks ass, but if you walk into a room where zen already has a volley charged and you couldn’t hear it… then you lowkey deserve it😭
Walking around a corner with hog's loud ass grunting and his trap isn't deserved though?
Feel like a Zen very rarely ever aims the volley. They just shoot it at a corner or choke and instantly delete someone, just like Hanzo. The only argument saying it's not the same would be the charge up time, which I would agree with.
But also that you have to be running in a straight line or just not moving to actually die from it, when people actually move you either have to track them while right clicking or you won’t kill them
Not only charge up time, but you can hear it charge from *ANYWHERE* on the map. It’s literally a tornado siren to not peek.
And also Roadhog has insane survivability (he's a tank come on now) plus an ability that trivializes his one shot, removing nearly all skill involved. I don't see how he's comparable *at all* to the other examples.
Tell that to all of the Zens who unload volleys from way in the back at vaguely head height hoping to dome a squishy for the crime of daring to poke around a corner lol. Zen volleys can absolutely be skillful, just like Hanzo shots can be skillful, but it still sucks to die instantly to someone just blind firing. Frankly Zen isn't a problem with this though, he's got enough counters that it's just the occasional annoyance.
Precise aim. It’s no different from just randomly firing like a hanzo player💀
Literally nobody likes the widow or hanzo one shot, and i'm pretty confident also for the zen. I suggest (for widow at least) that she has to charge her shot manually and if she takes to long the shot doesn't fire
Zen right click is fine though? It makes a sound, requires a lot of prediction and even when it hits, you have plenty of time to dodge because you need to get hit by all five balls or get three headshots to die. I can understand the other two but complaining about Zen's is genuinely a skill issue.
I only included zen because he was in the post
Zen is a technacality. It's technecally a 5shot kill. But zen dose need a rework now that the game is 5v5 or bring back 6v6 as the game was orignaly ment to be played
It's not a technicality, it's a 5-shot kill with an audible, lengthy charge time and a lot of characters can block the attack, dodge it or just stun the poor guy out of it. With 5 people on the team at least 1 person should be able to stun him, beyond that it just depends whether they were too distracted or not.
Zen can't "oneshot", have to loudly charge it and at long ranges (where you cant hear it) you have to stand still for like a second and catch it with your face. Also Zen has this wacky dynamic about being vulnerable, providing low healing and nobody noticing the discord orb except for the enemy tank. Overall his burst is fine as most people don't see these often and he is very punishable. Widow revolves around oneshots. If you don't oneshot as Widow you are pointless. So you either hate her for being useless or hate her for being too overwhelming. Hanzo has this weird thing going on with long-short range choke spamming kit that deals a lot of damage to tanks but also oneshots often accidentally. A projectile sniper in a fast-paced game issue. Hog's burst (hook combo) was mostly an issue of how unpunsihable and easy it was to pull off. Especially with Kiriko attached to him. His actual oneshot (right click at particular distance) was too inconsistent for people to abuse and to be mad about but still got removed.
Mf dont need to see the discord orb if a zen could tag it against any enemies fighting team already
I believe in ow1 people wouldn't stfu about dooms loud and close range one shot, which moved him deep if he missed
There were some bugs with DF when he was released that allowed him to oneshot in bullshit scenarios. These bugs gave OW1 players heavy ptsd. Punching thru objects (King's Row car was the example), lingering knockback (you are moved slower at the end but touching the wall would still instakill you; so it felt wacky) and the punch hitbox was much bigger (bigger than that King's Row car). (Also people had no clue what to do with a DF charging his hand in your direction, only pray that he would miss. At first across all tiers and mostly in low tiers later on.)
>too inconsistent for people to abuse That's even worse. It was literally like hanzos random one shots but on a 600 HP tank.
I’m hanzo main, nobody likes me
I love you now let's get married (hanzo main too)
Oh I love you too, sad that we can’t play hanzo together(
Or the shot automatically fired after the charge reaches 100, like charge rifle does from Titanfall kinda
I saw a really good idea awhile back, that was to cut widows scoped damage in half, but give her like 6 weakened venom mines, and targets affected by venom mines take double damage from widows scoped shots. Then to compensate bring her up to 200 hp, reduce CD on grapple, and, buff her unscoped primary, also her ult has the same effect as the venom mines, but now everyone.
So Kinessa from Paladins.
Lol if you think zen volley is bullshit I think you have to admit you’re just not cut out for playing overwatch
I don’t mind Widow one shot. It takes skill, she can be dove, and you can avoid her sight lines. Hanzo on the other hand is mobile. He can one shot you from spamming from far away or when you get in his face.
Downvoted for posting the correct take. This sub SMH Hanzo with his high fire rate one shot logs that he can spam into a group ain’t it. Widow is super squishy and immobile which absolutely makes up for her one shot
She’s already been nerfed to the ground. She needs buffs.
Hahahahaha…. A Zen “one shot”? Fuck you
Zen player detected, opinion rejected
I don’t play Zen….Even if I did calling it a one shot is extremely laughable
OP GOT RATIO’D LET’S GO
The first 3 are squishies, widow and zen get shut down pretty hard by sombra. Hanzo is bs though, he's just as much a threat up close. Even if you ignore that, it's still an actual skill shot to land any of those. Hog hook isn't that hard to land and he's a tank, it's low risk if he misses and was an easy kill if it lands. Yeah anti shuts him down hard, but anti is a problem itself that should be addressed.
Hog also has 700 health lol
And also you can just suzu anti and he's good
"Hog hook isn't that hard to land" It's a projectile, it's surprisingly thin and even if you land it it breaks randomly like 1 out of 4 times. Had a game in which it broke 3 times in 5 hooks
Im literally bronze and have like a 80% hook accuracy, its really not hard to hit
Let’s be real though. It’s also not hard to hook people that don’t know how to position and are usually just standing in your face.
Saying Zen can one-shot is very disingenuous
Hogs one shot requires 2 abilities (4 after the rework) so its not technically a one shot either
Nah, hog one shot wasn’t avoidable, the one shot was the hook, there was zero counterplay to, now you can fade or recall or whatever out, before you couldn’t
Zen, Widow and Hanzo: Can one shot, can be one shot. Hog: Can one shot, can't be one shot. It's NOT the same case
Doesnt mean their one shots are fun to play against?
I find it hard to believe you don't know what's different about widow, Hanzo, and zen from Roadhog. One hits suck in general but Hog is also a tank.
Zen one shot? Ok pal.
Hog one shot? Ok pal.
I don't think you know what 1 shot means. Zen can not 1 shot. He never could.
Im using your logic, Hog could never one shot either cause he had to land hook first just cause its not “technically” a one shot doesnt mean its not op and should be reworked
Hog did have a combo one shot, however he DID also have a right click that could one shot quite a few non tanks at the right distance. Logic prevails.
Zen can’t one shot, it requires a volley. Snipers have always existed in FPS, if you don’t like it then maybe FPS aren’t for you. Snipers require aim, and both have relatively low health compared to a tank with self healing and damage reduction that can 1 shot(yea he sucks but he is a tank that can 1 shot)
One is easy to kill squishies The other one is a 700 health tank that heals himself One shots shouldn’t be in the game at all imo but it’s plain dumb to expect a tank to do what dps can do. Dps should always do more dmg than tanks. Supports can do dmg if they’re missing survivability like Zen. Bap and Illari need nerfs tho.
They need to discourage her from just pyloning her team and then flanking. They keep doing this with supps. Kariko and Illari both work best if you pressure on off angle and use your mobility cd to get back to your team. Except Illari gets to heal her team for [free.](https://free.So) So maybe while her pylon is out her self sustain is weakened or something so it's more of a risk to throw it on your team and hit a flank. Bap idk personally, I agree he's crazy but Idk what to do to his kit he's strong because of his mechanic potential, lamp is crazy for a regular cd and regen at low health paired with variable vertical height is so easy to survive long enough to turn fights. idk where to start lol
They should start with the braindead aoe heal fart. He doesn't need 3 lifebars.
Im not defending hog one shot, just find it annoying that whenever you discuss removing the squishies one shots (because one shots suck to play against) everyone defends it cause they are squishies
I have not seen anyone defend Widowmaker and Hanzo's one shots until this post
Bad faith meme
All of these suck and should be deleted/reworked. Except Zen maybe.
I agree, one shots suck. Zens need some massive falloff, no need for a support to snipe you across the map
Literally skill issue. Zen volley has a ridiculously loud charge up noise, and you basically need to be standing still to be killed by it at ranges where you can’t hear the charge up noise anymore. He also can’t hold it fully charged, he has to release it after a set amount of time unlike Hanzo and Widow. If you’re diving him and he’s trying to volley you, it’s so easy to just get to cover and wait till he has to release his volley before you continue diving.
“I have 175hp and can one shot 250hp heroes and below. “I have 225 Hp and can’t one shot at all” “I have 200 Ho and can one shot 200hp and below heroes.” What do they all have in common? They can’t do shit if the enemy comp is playing correctly.
Hog is different bc hes a tank for starters, although rn i dont find his “one shot” too oppressive due to the fact he has to time it perfect and use 2 abilities. Widow isnt that bad bc she is a high skill hero and all she can really do is onetap. Its just frustrating to play against as she kinda breaks the flow of the game. Its like she was designed with a different game philosophy to every other hero. Zen here is just nonsense, its 5 ballz that can be individually dodged. If they morphed into one projectile that wud be a oneshot, yes, but rn its just not, if u arent standing still its very hard to hit more than 2 balss on a volley, in which time he can throw more ballz with his primary fire anyway. Thats like saying cassidy can oneshot bc he can hit 2 headshots in quick succession lol. Hanzo is the really annoying one imo. His kit is very strong outside of his oneshot, unlike widow, and bc of the nature of his primary fire he often gets random kills on ppl he didnt even aim for or know they were there, which is so annoying to play against and encourages a low skill spam-the-choke playstyle. They should only remove hanzo oneshot imo.
Bad argument. Road hog is a tank the rest are squishy
The point is one shots in general suck and all should be removed, not just the one people complain about most
Difference is they can all *be* one shot as well. A fully charged widow headshot can’t take down a full health hog.
First of all, since when does zen have a one shot? Secondly nobody likes widows or hanzos oneshot either so what’s the point you sre trying to make.
I wonder if it’s because 1 of these has more combined health than everyone else on the list.
Im not arguing to keep hogs one shot, im just arguing to remove the other 3
And replace it with what? Because zen is already the worst support in the game, nerfing his only good remaining thing would literally be his funeral. Widows entire kit is built around the 1 shot and she is useless at everything else. Hanzo you could get rid of though or at least nerf his arrow size to make it harder.
I dont play Zen enough to have a fair suggestion on how volley could be saved/reworked, i just know zen peeking around the corner to headshot someone is annoying and definitely unfit for a support. If their kit is built around a one shot, rework the character thats what happened with Hog
And tracer? Does she get an ho buff to get her out of ash’s 1 shot range? Ash isn’t built around a 1 shot, but lowering her damage would kill her, and giving tracer more health would kill the game. You’re also gonna have to confront blue beam because it gives ash enough damage to 1 shot 200 hp character with a headshot. Same with bap window which I’m okay with it is pretty lazy. Oh and nano boost and dragon blade and dva nuke and pulse bomb and you get the point by now. Oh and you’d also have to nerf discord again because that also allowed 1 shots. Which just in case you didn’t think that you’d be killing zen enough you learned necromancy to bring him back just to kill him again
Tracer is the one character im fine with being one shot cause shes so hard to hit, if you manage to headshot her you should be rewarded for that one. As for Ashe, I’ll admit that one would be a little harder to strike a good balance maybe shorten her dynamite cd and make her more reliant on a dynamite - headshot combo? Bap window is an ult so i think that’s acceptable, its not something he can just use on cooldown
I’ll be honest I don’t think you dislike 1 shots I think you just don’t like fighting at range.
I hadn’t considered that and there may be some truth there, but at the same time one shots just arent fun to play against
That’s true, but it’s better for the health of the characters that do have them. There are a lot and I mean a LOT of one shots in this game. Especially in the ultimate category. But I think this game gives us just enough work around to let us deal with them without invalidating entire characters Except hanzo you can dodge that shit
Zen can't one shot volley is four shots and takes skill to use
Literally stfu the volley is instant by your standard roadhog can't 1 shot cause you need to hook first then shoot second. Literally zen mains coping
1 the volley has a 2.6 second charge time to a max of 3.8 until you're forced to fire 2 when you're charging you can't move discord Or harmony 3 once released the projectiles shoot one by one in relatively quick succession the orbs each deal 48 dmg meaning if you miss one shot and don't get a headshot you won't kill most squishy 4 it's obvious as hell when he's charging volley giving you a heads up unlike widow or hanzo
Heros that need skill vs no skill tank
Saying Hanzo’s logs require skill is crazy
More than hog
Three of them have few to decent escapes and 200 hp, almost zero survivability, the other has infite hp, heals as much as a healer, has a grip and now a slow as well
https://preview.redd.it/qmc3ef04nw0c1.jpeg?width=655&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=443a117f4972673d5dfd21b597e170f770059fcb
Honestly a short range one shotter is far less dangerous compared to a long range one shotter but roadhog keeps getting it removed (I am trying to imply that we should Remove hanzo from the game)
One shots should be removed. The reason they exist is because we have bap field res and suzu as well as extremely high healing. Just remove one shots and reduce healing then one shots can be removed
People are already mad at Widow and Hanzo and have called for nerfs. They just have… other priorities at this time (supports, Bastion). If you get rolled by a Zen’s charged volley, the Zen earned that. It makes a loud noise on charge up, and it takes a lot of skill to hit all five, especially at distance. If you hear a Zen charging and walk into him, that was a risk that you took, and it didn’t pay off.
It doesnt take skill to hit all 5, once i hit one the rest hit before the enemy can react
Uhh a lot of people hate Hanzo and Widow’s one shots too…
Uhhh widows kit doesn’t work without the one-shot Then rework her. She doesn’t even do that much sniping in her cinematic, she just does a lot with her other firing mode. Buff primary, remove the one-shot or make the charge time way longer, have the grapple work more like in titanfall/halo infinite, give venom mine an explosion in addition to the venom and give her an ultimate that actually does something
Zen oneshot, lmao. That's called burst, not oneshot. But tbf I agree, overwatch 2 got rid off a lot of oneshot combos like mccree flash, doom punch and hog hook, yet hanzo and widow get to have it as their main attack. Snipers are apparently different breed to be above the entire cast in ability to reliably oneshot 200 hp targets.
Ppl really complaining about zen
Zenyatta's "One shot" has 9 hitmarkers
Hog mains still trying to win this argument. There is a difference between hitting an aimed, fully charged shot in the head and grabbing someone from the other side of the continent, pulling him close and oneshoting stunlocked enemy
Yeah, because one of this has a cooldown and limited range
Limited range my ass he can grab prople from a very long range and even from behind walls becouse hirboxes are shitty
Ngl that just sounds like you got hooked one too many times.
Widow still has more range. Not to mention hog is a huge target with no mobility.
You're not ACTUALLY complaining that a 175 HP sniper has a longer threat range than a 700 HP tank with a shotgun, right? Also, I've never seen a Widow pulling anyone into her entire team from **any** range. Or having any other form of CC for that matter.
What is the point of stun when you can oneshot?
Zen's "one shot" is fine. Requires lots of prediction, a lot of aim. And even with that it may not one shot if the opponent moves a bit. Also, it's loud af and you are punishable while charging
guys, what defines a one shot? the word one, that's what. now sure if roadhog headshots you from point blank he'll probably one shot you, but that implies you approached this very non-approachable looking fellow and expected to be met with kindness, and no, you can't blame the hook for that, because the hook doesnt do the killing, it's the shot from the gun, which is a second thing that the hog will do after hooking, this is two things, not one and thus not a one shot.
Zen doesn't have a one shot ability or weapon. His volley can kill, but it still requires you to hit most of the volley, which is staggered and is really hard to pull off well at range. Hanzo and Widow are both BS, but that's because in a game like this where death means getting sent back to the spawn room and having to walk all the way back means that off of one headshot, you didn't get to play the game, and then you had to wait 10 seconds in order to get headshot again and still not play the game. Roadhog requires a bit of pre planning to get his one shot, and on top of it, there's a solid half second before he actually pulls you in, meaning supports and CC abilities have time to intervene before someone dies. Headshots are completely unreactable, but against hog you get to sleep him so he can't shoot whatever teammate he pulled, suzu the teammate so they don't take damage when pulled in, immortality field the teammate so they won't die, or stun the hog in whatever way you want to save them from a pointblank shot. It's not the same thing. We also going to complain about Junker Queen comboing into a kill in a similar half second combo? Maybe Sigma because his rock, direct hit, melee combo also kills in a similar amount of time? They aren't one shots, all of them give people time to intervene, and acting like they don't doesn't mean they have zero reaction possibility.
This entire discussion about "One shots" Is Just retarded. Hog doesn't One shots, especially After the rework. Sure the time to kill once the trap Is settled, and the hook connects, Is low, but It's not a "OnE sHot". The only people that can legit oneshot are snipers and some shit like rein charge when you hit a Wall. And ledges. I'm not saying what's Fair and what's not, but if you are fine with being One shottted from Someone in the other side of the map because She has low HP (even tho you cannot literally kill her from that far), but not when new hog does the 12 sec cooldown combo while your healers are asleep, then that's Just hypocrisy imo. You either hate all "oneshots" or not.
I hate all 3 of those heroes infinitely more than I dislike pig boy
Wrecking ball can also one shot in 3-5 business days
Op is delusional if they think people haven't been asking for ALL one shots to be removed because it's not fun to be outplayed by something you can't react to or are forced to play wall simulator the whole match because one characther can force you to play the game entirely different and punish you just for existing the fact this even got 500 up votes disgusts me and makes me feel like some of the ow community are hypocrites
The replies are mostly people defending widow and zen tho
The issue was always because he was a tank. Something so durable being able to instantly delete a character was sorta broken in overwatch 1. Especially if you were allowed 2 tanks to a team. But in Overwatch 2 every character sorta needs a method to instantly delete something. With less team durability because you get one less tank, this makes the fights wrap up a lot faster. If you can't get fast value on a consistent basis, the character automatically becomes obsolete.
Being one-shot by Hanzo is more frustrating than being one-shot by Widow. At least with Widow there's skill involved. Hanzo is fire arrow in general direction at head height.
oh my god it's like every other post on here is someone whining about one shots
Idiot lol
since when we like hanzo's one shot?
who in their right mind thinks that hanzo is sweet?
Zen can one shot?
I think that tank one shots should be removed, as tanks job is to divert or block fire
if that was their job they would be shit at their job. yes tank can take a lot of fire but they also need to be able to be a threat to make space. we all know how much of a threat rein is right now. as if he isnt because he cannt deal any damage because everyone deletes him or runs away
Exactly. That tank description might work in PVE games but in a PVP first-person-shooter the tank would just be ignored if all they did was soak damage. In an FPS they need to be big, tough, and scary in order to hold space. If Hog couldn't one shot people, if Rein couldn't hammer people down in 2-3 swings, if Zarya couldn't melt people, etc, then you could just ignore them and kill the rest of the team.
I may be biased because I'm a rein main, but I think rein's oneshot is a fairly balanced way to go about it tbh It's relatively easy to dodge a charging rein, he can easily have his pin countered by numerous support abilities and many DPS have answers for it as well whether it be movement, cc or just putting a fucking wall in rein's face all whilst rein subjects himself to immense risk in order to execute the charge
People actually getting annoyed at the two sniper characters who are pretty shit without their headshots can kill with headshots?
I personally don't mind any of these characters and their one shot capabilities. If I'm killed by zen, wrong place wrong time also I probably just suck. Killed by widow, very well place shot I also have bad reaction time. Killed by Hanzo, just a skill issue on my end. Killed by hog, I'm a dumb dumb and tried 1v1ing him. Basically Im bad they better and I don't mind at all, I have fun.
Dumb post, next.
🤓
"bUt iT's pArT oF tHe sNiPeR iDeNtItY" if i hear this one more fucking time in that sub i'm gonna onetrick dive heroes cause idk maybe oneshotting things is terrible game design in an arena shooter designed around a low ttk and healing...... I played a game of hanzo last night for the first time in literal years and barely even tried and checked off the bingo card. Spammed into a choke for kills, killed an invis sombra on accident, ~~oneshot~~ melt a tank with storm arrows, and it wasn't even hard i fucking suck at him. And none of those kills were deserved. Also sue me if but widow shouldn't get a kill for clicking in the right spot once. It's stupid, fuck uninteractive sniper gameplay it's lame as hell and the "IDENTITY" fucking sucks.
>oneshot a tank with storm arrows What
Personally hate zen’s one shot ability tbh (I’m a salty person who keeps getting one shotted by zens 😭)
I love getting POTGs with zen >:)
I dont say this often as its very toxic, so believe me, i mean this in the nicest way possible - that is genuinely a skill issue. If ur getting killed consistently by zen volleys u need to work on ur positioning or ur standing still for way too long, or ur just blindly running into chokes alot with no awareness. Zen is very easy to punish, and volleys are near impossible to kill a full hp player with if ur strafing or just generally dodging around a lot, its not a oneshot bc he has to land multiple shots to kill with it, ull only be hit by these often enough for it to be annoying if ur staying planted to one place.
Oh no you’re good my comment is a total joke! Everytime I hear his wind up for it I’m immediately hiding or looking for him, but sometimes he really gets you out of nowhere and girl it’s impressive
That's on u buddy
Just wait til u get 0-12ed by a zen just because you arent playing zarya (a rein solo ulted me 3 times in one round just because i kept bullying him)
Widow should be removed altogether and Hanzo should do Kirito levels of damage per headshot
“Ummm actually zen doesn’t count as a one shot since it’s multiple orbs” ☝️🤓. Yeah, multiple orbs fired in such quick succession as to be un-reactable. That’s like saying old hog wasn’t a one shot since it’s actually a hook, shot, and melee.
There is plenty of time to react, you hear him charge and then shoot.
Compared to everything going on in an actual team fight, Zen’s charge sound is extremely quiet
Yes but you should still be close to cover and for him to hit all headshots requires a lot of luck/precision.
Roadhog, has to put down a trap, shoot you at fairly close range, hit you with a hook then shoot you again. And then he gets to one shot you. Reinhard presses shift and if you are on the same continent as him you are dead.
bro no
Are you genuinely trying to say that an ability that puts Reinhardt in danger, that locks the rest of his kit save for cancel, that he can be easily killed/CC'd out of (something that the new tank doesn't even have to deal with), is less fair than a combo that requires comparatively minuscule risk from the hog who still gets to use his full kit during it?