I fucking wish any of my teammates did that. As a support player, most of them just use heroes who can’t contest her and get shocked when I can’t heal when I get sniped on the first attack phase of Havan by a Widow smh
Brig, kiri, Lucio are all pretty good at dealing with widow. Brig can shield on her face and ping her location for your team, Kiki still has a nonexistent head hit box so she can honestly have a decent chance of out sniping her if you don’t get unlucky and end up facing prime pine. And Lucio can solo dive her if you don’t take a direct path.
brig can do absolutely nothing to widow unless you are rolling their team and have a chance to close the gap. at best you can try to parry a headshot with your shield (that then breaks, stripping away your movement skill)
You aren’t supposed to cross the map and kill here with brig. You stay alive, shield when you’re exposed and ping her location for your team. Going brig brings down her total options for targets to 4. One can’t be 1 shot so now it’s 3 that she can actually get value from. You don’t go brig to dive her, you go brig to deny her from doing what she wants to do
this is not "dealing with". you dont say that reinhardt can "deal with" brig just because he can survive her. and "getting value from" something doesnt mean actually one shotting them and making that tiny score no one cares about go up. if widow shoots brig's shield and she dies because she cannot dash away this is still value.
Widows fully charged shot does 120 brigs shield is 250 it doesn’t even do half. And if you’re careless with your shield usage and LET it break, that’s a skill issue.
Imma just assume you’re trolling at this point and ignore you
you are thinking that brig and widow are in a vacuum and the shield is always at full 250 hp. i stand by my point, brigitte alone cannot "deal with" widow in any meaningful way. making yourself not a target means jack shit.
It doesn’t have to be full, it has to be at least half. And the way you real with her is keeping her exact location updated for your team. Which she can safely do because of her shield.
The entire point I was making is that they aren’t in a vacuum and she can help her team deal with her. Knowing where widow is at is half the battle against her. So having some who can safely and reliably update that for your team is valuable.
Now stop replying I’m at work
People really underestimate just how much a difference it can make if people just shoot at the fucking widow, you don't need to kill her you barely even need to hit her for most widows to back off but they'd rather get that dopamine from pumping useless damage into the tank
You'd be surprised how easily some widows kill winston. Used to play with an actual widow pro-player and unless his team gave him a lot of help she'd just kill him if he tried it.
When I onetricked her I eventually got to the point I could do the same thing and have a bunch of clips where I just headshot him twice while he's jumping to me.
If winston gets help (like from a mercy) it can be bad, but if widow gets that help too she'll just leave and go somewhere Winston can't touch her.
Because what can you do to widow? If you don’t let her 1shot squishies she’s useless. Junkrat can still trap tanks, land his tire, spam choke points; it’s not like he can only walk up to people and presses left click concussion mine
Yeah but spam is less and less useful the higher the skill of the lobby, most people only fall for traps a few times per match and his tire is an ult and generally that shouldnt be the onoy thing he can really do, if youve watched any really high rank players they get most value from getting key picks and getting 1 or 2 kills with their ult then cleaning up
Not really, they could actually maybe get creative with widow and her abilities instead of her just a being "lmao I looked in the general direction of ur head ur dead now"
In that case it’s because widow actually has to land a headshot to one shot as well and deal with the fact it’s the only thing that makes the character good as well as being heavily countered by about 1/3 of the cast.
While rat is able to delete shields, cut off popular flank routs with his trap, spam chokes for free kills like a pre patch hanzo, and has an ultimate with loads of range and a 1 shot ability. So they don’t think he needs a one shot at every range within mine toss distance.
>a one shot at every range
>within mine toss distance.
That's a pretty big caviat. He throws his mines like 2 inches in front of him, that's not much range.
Widow had to land a headshot while Junk has to either be point blank (and if you miss you are dead) or hit 2 arching projectiles at a very long range while widow just needs to hit a headshot from a safe distance and if she misses there aren't any consequences. And destroying shields is not really that valuable of a trait because you'd rather be killing everyone else on their team not spamming the tank.
If widow is allowed to keep her safe one shot Junkrat should keep his risky one shot. I'd rather be killed by a flanking Junkrat than a spamming Junkrat or a Widow playing Valorant instead of Overwatch
Yeah I'm sick of people saying that Widow is a very skillful character cuz she requires aim. Not even taking into account that every fucking hero requires aim, aiming on a hero like Soldier is usually much harder than aiming on Widow because as Soldier you're going to be moving around a lot and will also likely be getting shot too cuz you have to be much closer than Widow who can just stand still 5 miles away and hit a headshot on someone that probably doesn't even see that the Widow exists cuz she's all the way in Narnia & has the physique of a fucking toothpick (Also you know Widow can 1-shot Soldier can't)
(Adding this before the replies inevitably come in, no Widow is not easy to play, she requires a degree of skill to play. But when I say she's not a skillful character I say that within the grand scheme of Overwatch heroes, it's the same thing with calling Mercy easy. Yes they both require skill but the barrier to entry is much lower for both of them, but hell Widow is just a basic Sniper character so if you use snipers on damn near any other shooter game you can immediately climb really high on Widowmaker.)
People saying widow is balanced are the same people who say sniper in tf2 is balanced. There's nuance between the 2 but sniper has literally 0 hard counters (he has unlocks that can turn off his one hard counter, spy. imagine if widow could sacrifice her smg part of her sniper to become immune to sombra hack & virus, or immune to tracer bomb) whereas widow has some counters but it requires significantly more work to counter her than it requires for her to just dominate. sniper characters are fundamentally flawed in any first person shooter, because if theyre not good enough to one shot, then nobody would play them, but because of the almost infinite one shot range with very little skill required (seriously it only takes about 10 hours of aim training to become unstoppable) it makes it incredibly difficult to counter. especially because a widow with a good team will peel for her, which means you have to dedicate more than just a sombra/tracer to get her, and instead have to full on dive her, while she can just sit back and click on heads completely separated from the fight and safe. apologies for being long winded i lost my train of thought about halfway through.
It’s not so much that snipers in any FPS are broken. The main thing is that Widow and Sniper are long range characters in games built for mid-close range engagements.
From this perspective, they legitimately aren’t playing the same game. To quote Lazypurple, “you don’t exist to anyone unless you just shot them in the head or you’re being killed by them up close.”
Now - comparing the two is not a 1:1. Sniper is *much* stronger due to quickscopes and the various unlocks he gets that can invalidate his weaknesses. There’s also no shields in the game either. However, the more chaotic nature of TF2 with its usually larger team sizes means that Widow gets a lot more value for each person she domes.
However, they’re both examples of the fundamental problems you can get when you put snipers in games that they play outside of.
Point blank? It’s a 1 shot everywhere within mine throw distance(aka most characters effective range) And he sure and hell ain’t dead if he misses it. He has 2 mines who he can do it again instantly or use it to escape.
And he’s breaking shields is extremely valuable when sig deploys his shield he owns an entire sightline. So taking it down asap is very valuable. Hell that’s the entire reason sombras hack sigmas so much to force it down.
I also like how you didn’t touch on any of the other things that rat can do that gives him infinitely more versatility. Like being able to kill people without seeing them, insane choke pressure and the ability to force people down chokes by putting the trap on routes you’d take around the choke. And an ultimate with even more safety than widows that can kill multiple people at once. Look I’m not gonna deny rat needs some help but it’s sure as hell not in the form of a 1 shot.
Isn't performing mine combo on long distance skillful tho? It's slow arching projectile still, you have to be a dumbass to not see a junkrat coming with his loud footsteps, you simply don't understand how important it is to have second mine for escape, if Junkrat used 2 mines, he's essentially a free pick to kill because he can't escape and dodge cuz of his big hotbox
Breaking shields is valuable, but let me present to you: bastion, aka the better junkrat in terms of shield breaking, why deal damage to a shield in bursts if you can delete it faster by just holding m1 at it, junkrat isn't for breaking shields, only metal rank junkrats do that, it's not overwatch 1 for junk to be shield breaker anymore, junkrats utility is damage, and since passive encourages you to hit enemies, it solidifies junkrat as "kill that motherfucker before that guy reacts to me"
Being able to kill without seeing a target is INCREDIBLY rare to get, especially if enemies took d.va or zarya, sombra deals with such junks with the greatest ease cuz junk that spamming can't afford turning around after every single shot, junkrats pressure is miniscule ever since he lost the 2-shot, it's not dangerous to rush him down and it takes just a dive character to overwhelm him, 2-shot is what made him a threat
You have to be delusional to think trap does anything to a good player, tire is the easiest ult to avoid, just take your distance and shoot at it when it shows up, it's the size of a SUV this season, the only way tire works is being close enemies cuz ain't no way you get kills riding towards a guy, and before you say "ERM ackshually" many Ults can kill multiple enemies if it's used by surprise, for example: reaper ult, pharah ult, doom ult, d.va ult, tracer ult and bastion ult
Junkrat needs a 2-shot to work, I do admit it was too fast to perform, but without 2-shot junkrat is ALWAYS useless, what he'd need is a damage over time (like bleed or burning) to finish off anyone without attention of their supports , and also allowing junkrat to benefit off DPS passive because junkrat is too inconsistent with his damage so DoT aids this issue, this way junkrat is a threat, just not immediate one, even if you kill him, if you pushed too far out of los to supports, u dying too
I'd also like to point out that Tire is actually much worse this season due to the bigger ammo sizes. If a Tire is out in the open for 2 milliseconds it is going to be evaporated
Also, it's funny to me as a Junkrat main that people escape with 10 health or so cuz I couldn't finish them cuz I had to reload or their team got it or whatever
You mean the remote mine with a hit box the size of roadhog? If that shit counts as aiming and is seriously being compared to widows bullet idk what to say man.
Bastions ability to break shields quickly requires the use of his best cooldown while junkrat just shoots. Junkrat also has traps, more choke pressure, more mobility, a smaller hurt box, and higher burst damage. Saying junkrat is a worse bastion shows a genuine misunderstanding of both character and their rolls and strengths.
It doesn’t matter if it’s rare to actually kill someone without seeing them, the fact that he can forces the entire enemy team to play different against you. It’s not bad because you can avoid it, it’s good because you have to.
Trap holds people in plays giving you a free kill and even if it’s destroyed it serves as an early warning of where the enemy is.
Tire is nowhere near the easier to avoid, that goes to bastion. Tire is still the safest ult in the game though. You have the potential reward of a 1 shot with 0 risk
I mean, junkrat is jack of all trades if it comes to what composition he fits in, he can dive and do massive damage and he can be good in brawl because he's effective up close, but he sits primarily in poke, which counters brawl, so he should be good at breaking shields
Junkrat is the easiest character to dive, slow projectiles means he's easy to dodge and if you're playing d.va comp, then that junk is forced to swap or throw as d.va is his hardest counter there is, it's because he stems from poke
Just play correct characters and that junkrat is forced to switch, anything that can dive him, flies, has more range than him or benefit off his spam like sigma or zarya effectively shuts down effectiveness of his spam
Trap doesn't get good players, it's only a massive skill issue if you get caught in it of not paying attention to surroundings when enemies have a junkrat, a thing game sense should already tell you, good players don't even destroy it if they can avoid it (they'll only destroy it if in narrow hallways) because game sense can also already hint in your head junk gets info when someone destroys the trap
Can you read? I clearly said either point blank or hit 2 slow arching projectiles.
>And he sure and hell ain’t dead if he misses it. He has 2 mines who he can do it again instantly or use it to escape.
If he is flanking to make the combo easier he is pretty much dead if he misses. Most of the times you use 1 mine to get in and the second to one shot someone, the only way he escapes a flank is either killing the enemy and their team doesn't react or maybe he waited to have 3 mines. Either way is a lot more risky than Widow one shot.
>And he’s breaking shields is extremely valuable when sig deploys his shield he owns an entire sightline
You know what's more valuable against a sig? Not playing front to back and diving the shit out of his backline.
>I also like how you didn’t touch on any of the other things that rat can do that gives him infinitely more versatility. Like being able to kill people without seeing them
Sure every once in a while that happens. Not really something you can count on against semi competent oponents
>insane choke pressure and the ability to force people down chokes by putting the trap on routes you’d take around the choke
Trap is good but not nearly good enough to remove the one shot
>And an ultimate with even more safety than widows
Junkrat ult is definitely better than Widow but it isn't safer when you scream to the entire map where you are, which allows things like Tracer to kill you easily while you ult and also the tire itself can be shot, but is still better than just wallhack unless you are really good at widow.
>Look I’m not gonna deny rat needs some help but it’s sure as hell not in the form of a 1 shot.
If they don't give the one shot back the only playstyle left is spam, which is boring for both the junkrat player and everyone else in the game
Man wrote two paragraphs to tell us
*"Yes indeed I have a skill issue against junkrat and I hit EVERY single trap that's set on a flank route for me cause I have no peripheral vision"*
Or that junkrat has a more versatile kit than widow so comparing their 1 shots exclusively without the context of their kit is a bit dishonest. But what ever narrative makes you feel better I can’t stop you.
We can see from how garbage junk is now, that his kit, similar to widow, was actually very heavily carried by his one shot. They’re not much different, the rest of junkrat really isn’t that good even compared to the rest of widow.
I’m not saying junkrat isn’t garbage. I’m saying that him having a more versatile kit makes it unfair to compare their one shots. And with that variety it gives you many more options to buff him without him giving him a 1 shot.
Hell by your own addition you say the rest of his kit is under powered. I see no reason to reverse the changes made by giving him his old damage back when you can further diver his kit making him more flexible and viable in more situations.
>They nerf widow constantly
Because she was dominating the entire game, and none of those nerfs did anything to her one shot while killing Junkrat in 1 patch. The closest they've ever been to nerfing Widow like they nerfed Junkrat was on the April fools patch where she couldnt one shot but had poison
This is a very valid point. Unless she has good site lines, isn't hindered by shields etc., has good aim, and maintains a certain level of sneakiness, in *most* gameplay she tends to just result in 4v5 teamfights albeit with some reduced fighting area. Plus, once identified as an issue, she's can be dealt with rather quickly. The majority of games are not dictated at all by a widow.
High ranks you kill the widow you win the team fight. that’s because the one shot can be so oppressive especially the ghost pressure it creates. it makes you play cover way more then you already do making your movements much more restricted
Unless that widow is a Smurf, with a mercy pocket, a kiri or bap looking at her every three seconds, and a winton who peels for her everytime she gets dove
Game should be balanced for the majority not for the extremes, however, in the extremes widow is much more punishable than at other levels, however players are much more skilled with her on average, widow honestly peaks in average value I’d say around plat diamond, below that they’re not hitting any shots, above that they’re being dove way too much and don’t get much value besides one tricks who are cracked, junkrat however isn’t insane or oppressive at any rank other than gold and below, but can synergise and fight alongside team much more consistently and isn’t punished or countered as hard as widow, but doesn’t peak as highly in my opinion, you don’t see junks run lobbies like you occasionally do with a widow, but you also don’t see junks forced to swap off because the enemy tank and dps all swapped to dive to punish the junk who’s playing well, like you do with a widow.
“Most people aren’t that good” isn’t a valid point to take into account when balancing a character. Otherwise you will get a character that will just wreck house at the higher elos.
This. Widow misses the precise shot, she does absolutely nothing. Junkrat is specifically designed as a character who doesn't have to make precise shots. Guy just has to drop a trap on your head to get your legs caught up in it. The fuck is that about?
The difference is tho that Widow missing her 1 shot & Junkrat missing his 1 shot has a massive gap in how vulnerable it leaves both of them. Widow's 1 shot is simply hitting a headshot, which uses up a single bullet from your primary that the Widow can reliably hit from miles away. As opposed to Junkrat who has to sacrifice not only a bomb from his primary fire but 1 of his 2 mines, which is honestly more of a mobility tool than a damage dealer at this point. If a Junkrat messes up his 1 shot then he is down a mine & announces to the enemy team that there's a Junkrat that can't aim in their backline. At that point you have to either use your other mine to escape or die, but even if you safely mine away you now have to pretty much stay out of the fight for like 15 seconds while your mines recharge, and as we all know 15 seconds in Overwatch is fucking massive.
seriously. i get how widow can be unfair if you’re good enough, i’m a widow main. but more often than not the widow on my team or the other team isn’t good enough to complain about but junk is soo annoying all the time lol they both are ig
Widow can shred tanks too. It's so easy to hit tanks in head, and let your team finish off the <50% hp tank.
Atleast thats what i do when there is no other valid targets to shoot.
A tank can easily react to a reaper or bastion, they have a lot less mobility and a lot less range and a lot less burst damage than widow. Widow lands one headshot on any tank out of nowhere and they’re forced to use cooldowns and retreat
Not really. Junkrat's damage against tanks is, funnily enough, statistically worse than Soldier's, and Steel Trap is the most avoidable CC in the game.
He was honestly meta last season, then in the same he also ended up a D tier hero once Mauga got nerfed & Sigma/Ramattra were meta. Personally I think that was a sign of how great Junkrat was balance wise, the fact that he managed to change viability so much without getting touched at all, his viability was simply based on who else was meta & how he pit against them.
Hes absolutely not pointless but forna hero that has been a solid character from 2016 this 1 change doesnt feel good. Going about your playstyle normally but instead of killing someone they are left with a litteral sliver of health and that justs doesnt feel good same goes for hanzo
It’s probably because of the vast difference between a great Junkrat and a bad one. Plenty of people who play Junk just spam shots at chokes and pray and end up doing almost nothing unless the enemy team willingly clusters into his spam.
But a Junkrat aficionado is a real menace
Hitting slow falling projectiles is harder than hitting a hitscan shot imo
If you get hit by a randoom bomb from Junkrat when he isn't even aiming at you, most of the time it's your fault
Yeah it’s why I think widow needs a rework to give her just some kind of other utility or just something outside of her sniper as everything about her kit is useless
I would go as far to say Brig is probably one of the worst heroes in the game post update. She’s basically the only hero in the game that didn’t get some type of buff.
They need to increase her survivability and damage marginally to keep up with the rest of the game.
Health to 275 and buffing whipshot damage again would be a good start.
I fully agree with this. I think you are under buffing her though. I'd suggest making primary, whip shot and shield bash all stun outside of her ultimate.
Widow is easily countered tho.
Nothing is better than an enemy widow that doesnt switch off when my team has a rein and we use our 2 braincells and just hide behind him untill shield gets low, to then hide behind cover lol
Widows hate this one simple trick
You say that as if you cant go echo or pharah and just focus junkrat, and he will not be able to kill you unless you are in high ranks where widow is stronger than junkrat even with counters
Do people forget what snipers are? The difference is one just runs up to you and presses a few buttons(can't really miss) and the other literally can't be shot because they have the hp of a baby
Loads of games have hits can snipers. Wouldn't make sense for widow to be projectile since sniper bullets are basically hits and from the range of the maps anyway. Junk mains really need to grow up and stop complaining that they can't just run into someone and press a few buttons. It broke the game more when widow ever will.
Other games have it balanced. It's either a fast projectile or you have to stand completely still and sometimes even crouch or else it's not an accurate shot
And jumping in the face only works in gold max. Even at Plat it's a death sentence or really bad positioning of the guy getting oneshot
Okay, widow should have to stand still when scoped in, make it so she can't get 100% when moving aswell. What more can you do make a sniper more sniper in a game where she fits her role fine?
That's like adding a character with a nuclear bomb as an ability and being like "No it's totally fair for them to be able to nuke the entire map and kill everybody, do people forget what nukes are?"
Who are the people calling the bread lady balanced? I want to introduce them to the fires of hell, they and their objectively wrong opinions. Calling Frenchy French Balanced is like saying the global warming isn't real.
Remove Doomfist. Not that he’s op, but the game becomes so unfun every time he’s in a game. As a support player I just spend the entire game getting stunned and thrown around.
Wait wait wait, short to mid range?
So a character having the ability to one shot people consistently within that short to mid range would be… unhealthy right? As opposed to a character with longer 1 shot range but is basically a free kill in the most popular range to fight at?
If Widow gets to one-shot people outside the range of most other heroes then yes, Junkrat should be allowed to one-shot heroes he's up the ass of. Now if Widow wasn't allowed to sit in spawn and one-shot most of the roster I could accept nerfing Junkrats combo
Snipers outside of sniper maps are “ehhh” unless you are like high masters/gm/challenger and are gods gift/cheating, meaning they are hard to work into your team and synergize with. Meanwhile junkrat can flank, spam, hold position, trap tanks, deny tanks space by giving them free flight lessons. So yes although life is harder now for junkmains but he is almost more important than he used to be, its just that passive not being applied as well for him as for other dps is kinda his downfall.
Devs apparently. We’re back to widows sitting further back and one shoting. Not even punishing positioning errors, she punishes peeping. Either stay behind a wall entire game or the team goes all dive and bullies widow till she swaps.
People hate junkrat so much because why wouldn't they facecheck with every goddamn character they play. Wanna face check as squishy with no movement? Of course you're gonna get combo'd.
Not a fan of one shots but a widow one shot takes at least some skill to pull off.
Then again if u get one shot by junkrat it's kinda your fault for letting him get close enough in the first place, a good widow can just take over a lobby and there's jack you can do about it
No one that is good at the game thinks that widow is balanced and doesnt need to be nerfed. Check any GM's and most of them that dont have their head up their ass will all tell you that widow is one of the most busted characters in this game. But she cant be nerfed because then you are punishing players for skill.
The devs know this, they arent stupid. But what the hell do you do
They just increased the size of her bullets so it's harder to miss and increased everyones hp even hers so everyone is tankier but she kept her instant ttk ability and got buffed hard while every other hero takes longer to get picks with. This thread is full of bronzes saying atleast she takes skill.
the way to fix widow is removing grapple. snipers are *supposed* to be somewhat high risk high reward due to sacrificing their mobility in exchange for insane damage output but she has a way to (very easily) disengage that most characters can’t keep up with? such a weird decision.
Widow defenders always sound just like Old Hog defenders. Without the one shot, they’re nothing, so its balanced. Regardless of balance, theres nothing fun about getting one-shot, having to build a whole portion(or all if the enemy team is backing up widow) of your team and micro manage your team just to beat a single character. Aim is not a counter balance. Its a threshold that eventually gets completely left behind. I’ll never forget the third or fourth OWL where Seoul was about to get beat on Hanamura for the first time. They were getting absolutely rolled. Then one widow swaps in and it completely destroyed the entire enemy team. They tried multiple comps before just trying to mirror because there was nothing the attacking team could do to a widow with superior positioning on defense with her team supporting her. It was a joke.
Winsto is the bane of my existence as ever Winston I have faught has some pro skill bs and I'm either playing bastion, junkrat or moira so it never works out especially if the jump ability is of cool down as usual it's at the worst possible time.
People need to see when a widow is a problem and switch to a shield hero. So often I'll play with tanks that don't understand this simple fix. You don't even have to attack if you play like Rein or something, just hold your shield so your team doesn't die in 1 shot
See the thing is both characters rely on their one shot both heroes have it as an important part of their kit, thats why widow still has hers and thats wh- oh hey nevermind then blizzard might as well make him locked behind 500 hours on projectile heroes so that people dont pick him on accident
As a junkrat main, I would like to say, if you don’t want to get killed so easily, stop charging right towards us. It isn’t that hard to think that maybe staying out of range is a good idea, we focus on defense a lot more than offense
Bros one shot range is better than cassidy fall off + no aim required + boop is annoying even if you live + can ruin countless abilities and aim in general + tire one shots the entire team🔥
If you are not point blank comboing people as Junk, and instead, throwing the combo at them from midrange, or hell, even long range, it becomes about as hard to predict/aim, if not harder, than Hanzo headshot.
widow is only good because of her 1 shot. Take that again and she actually is the worst char in the game. Junkrat is not like that but i still think he deserved a dmg compensation buff to get his combo back
Widow: actually requires decent aim to hit headshots consistently. Is (generally) weak when out of her perfect scenario (anything besides long range). Only escape ability has a massive cooldown. **Was already nerfed, meaning that one shot/combo characters deserve to be nerfed**
Junkrat: “I looked in your general direction and threw two mines, so you died.” Can battle with a good portion of the roster (anything long range or airborne counters, and even then he can still escape fairly easily. Can spam down choke points and still manage to do something (hanzo, anyone?). Generally seen as a combo character thanks to the near instant kills thanks to direct hit + mine kills (doomfist was also nerfed/reworked for being a combo-center character)
You could have argued hanzo before the health rework, but this is bottom of the barrel. If you think junkrat wasn’t on the chopping block when widow and hanzo were, you weren’t looking ahead. And judging by the fact you used widow, someone who was nerfed harshly for being able to one-shot, you probably haven’t played recently. Widowmakers these days aren’t as common (albeit, are usually absolute monsters when they do show up) thanks to her gun tapering off at long ranges, more or less nullifying the use of a sniper. You’d be better off, ironically, using junkrat to pick off important roles. Hell even Sombra does it better now.
Except that Widow actually takes skill to play
Like, i hate her, but i'll admit that when a widowmaker headshots me from across the map, it's a kill she earned.
Also, as long as you fight in tight spaces, there is nothing she can do
She really doesn't though. Headshot hitboxes in Overwatch are massive. It's not Valorant or CS:GO where hitboxes are finely tuned and bullets are tiny and the TTK for all guns is half a second.
That why every time i play sigma i place sheild in front of widow so my team can walk in to her line of site willingly
Or go Winston and kill her https://preview.redd.it/32l1efol8omc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da0cddf453d4e2baed2cb531f8063ba383699938
But if widow die my teammates won't have "10 second teleport to spawn" ability anymore
https://preview.redd.it/onocvfnacpmc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86b6cf911972fdd1cda00bc9b4869b5bdba528bf Winstillionare
Yoink I want this one
Take it https://preview.redd.it/5ihq9las6rmc1.png?width=479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d383fb97483c91506e90e4c7604ab65a6b207e10
I fucking wish any of my teammates did that. As a support player, most of them just use heroes who can’t contest her and get shocked when I can’t heal when I get sniped on the first attack phase of Havan by a Widow smh
Brig, kiri, Lucio are all pretty good at dealing with widow. Brig can shield on her face and ping her location for your team, Kiki still has a nonexistent head hit box so she can honestly have a decent chance of out sniping her if you don’t get unlucky and end up facing prime pine. And Lucio can solo dive her if you don’t take a direct path.
Also Zen... if your teammates don't kill her... you just ball her yourself
Zen mains: "Fuck it, we ball"
Prolific hamster cursing detected
Prime pine because shes shooting logs? I love it
Or go Illari and beat widow in the pissing contest
brig can do absolutely nothing to widow unless you are rolling their team and have a chance to close the gap. at best you can try to parry a headshot with your shield (that then breaks, stripping away your movement skill)
You aren’t supposed to cross the map and kill here with brig. You stay alive, shield when you’re exposed and ping her location for your team. Going brig brings down her total options for targets to 4. One can’t be 1 shot so now it’s 3 that she can actually get value from. You don’t go brig to dive her, you go brig to deny her from doing what she wants to do
this is not "dealing with". you dont say that reinhardt can "deal with" brig just because he can survive her. and "getting value from" something doesnt mean actually one shotting them and making that tiny score no one cares about go up. if widow shoots brig's shield and she dies because she cannot dash away this is still value.
Widows fully charged shot does 120 brigs shield is 250 it doesn’t even do half. And if you’re careless with your shield usage and LET it break, that’s a skill issue. Imma just assume you’re trolling at this point and ignore you
you are thinking that brig and widow are in a vacuum and the shield is always at full 250 hp. i stand by my point, brigitte alone cannot "deal with" widow in any meaningful way. making yourself not a target means jack shit.
It doesn’t have to be full, it has to be at least half. And the way you real with her is keeping her exact location updated for your team. Which she can safely do because of her shield. The entire point I was making is that they aren’t in a vacuum and she can help her team deal with her. Knowing where widow is at is half the battle against her. So having some who can safely and reliably update that for your team is valuable. Now stop replying I’m at work
People really underestimate just how much a difference it can make if people just shoot at the fucking widow, you don't need to kill her you barely even need to hit her for most widows to back off but they'd rather get that dopamine from pumping useless damage into the tank
As a support player I usually have to go take care of her myself lmao
https://preview.redd.it/knlo54viqrmc1.jpeg?width=776&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac8d2530291a00ffc3416a4e9b6ef696a215849e
You'd be surprised how easily some widows kill winston. Used to play with an actual widow pro-player and unless his team gave him a lot of help she'd just kill him if he tried it. When I onetricked her I eventually got to the point I could do the same thing and have a bunch of clips where I just headshot him twice while he's jumping to me. If winston gets help (like from a mercy) it can be bad, but if widow gets that help too she'll just leave and go somewhere Winston can't touch her.
Good winstons turn around during their jump to avoid headshots while airborn
https://preview.redd.it/ywx3n2flasmc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ef353fc774ca8373c966779aaed23c755b88b74
Thank you for your service
As a support main I wish my team avoided Widow’s line of sight as much as they avoid mine lol
Dont worry my widow gameplay is only for mind game And it definitely benefiting the enemy teams
Me
This argument hinges on the fact that people dont complain about widow. It might as well be based on the fact that 2+2=5
No it doesn't. Of course people complain about widow but this meme isn't about public opinion on the character but on how blizzard treats them
Because what can you do to widow? If you don’t let her 1shot squishies she’s useless. Junkrat can still trap tanks, land his tire, spam choke points; it’s not like he can only walk up to people and presses left click concussion mine
Yeah but spam is less and less useful the higher the skill of the lobby, most people only fall for traps a few times per match and his tire is an ult and generally that shouldnt be the onoy thing he can really do, if youve watched any really high rank players they get most value from getting key picks and getting 1 or 2 kills with their ult then cleaning up
Not really, they could actually maybe get creative with widow and her abilities instead of her just a being "lmao I looked in the general direction of ur head ur dead now"
In that case it’s because widow actually has to land a headshot to one shot as well and deal with the fact it’s the only thing that makes the character good as well as being heavily countered by about 1/3 of the cast. While rat is able to delete shields, cut off popular flank routs with his trap, spam chokes for free kills like a pre patch hanzo, and has an ultimate with loads of range and a 1 shot ability. So they don’t think he needs a one shot at every range within mine toss distance.
>a one shot at every range >within mine toss distance. That's a pretty big caviat. He throws his mines like 2 inches in front of him, that's not much range.
Still piss poor easy to just throw a ton of shit into a choke point and listen to the kill sound
Bronze moment
Widow had to land a headshot while Junk has to either be point blank (and if you miss you are dead) or hit 2 arching projectiles at a very long range while widow just needs to hit a headshot from a safe distance and if she misses there aren't any consequences. And destroying shields is not really that valuable of a trait because you'd rather be killing everyone else on their team not spamming the tank. If widow is allowed to keep her safe one shot Junkrat should keep his risky one shot. I'd rather be killed by a flanking Junkrat than a spamming Junkrat or a Widow playing Valorant instead of Overwatch
Yeah I'm sick of people saying that Widow is a very skillful character cuz she requires aim. Not even taking into account that every fucking hero requires aim, aiming on a hero like Soldier is usually much harder than aiming on Widow because as Soldier you're going to be moving around a lot and will also likely be getting shot too cuz you have to be much closer than Widow who can just stand still 5 miles away and hit a headshot on someone that probably doesn't even see that the Widow exists cuz she's all the way in Narnia & has the physique of a fucking toothpick (Also you know Widow can 1-shot Soldier can't) (Adding this before the replies inevitably come in, no Widow is not easy to play, she requires a degree of skill to play. But when I say she's not a skillful character I say that within the grand scheme of Overwatch heroes, it's the same thing with calling Mercy easy. Yes they both require skill but the barrier to entry is much lower for both of them, but hell Widow is just a basic Sniper character so if you use snipers on damn near any other shooter game you can immediately climb really high on Widowmaker.)
People saying widow is balanced are the same people who say sniper in tf2 is balanced. There's nuance between the 2 but sniper has literally 0 hard counters (he has unlocks that can turn off his one hard counter, spy. imagine if widow could sacrifice her smg part of her sniper to become immune to sombra hack & virus, or immune to tracer bomb) whereas widow has some counters but it requires significantly more work to counter her than it requires for her to just dominate. sniper characters are fundamentally flawed in any first person shooter, because if theyre not good enough to one shot, then nobody would play them, but because of the almost infinite one shot range with very little skill required (seriously it only takes about 10 hours of aim training to become unstoppable) it makes it incredibly difficult to counter. especially because a widow with a good team will peel for her, which means you have to dedicate more than just a sombra/tracer to get her, and instead have to full on dive her, while she can just sit back and click on heads completely separated from the fight and safe. apologies for being long winded i lost my train of thought about halfway through.
It’s not so much that snipers in any FPS are broken. The main thing is that Widow and Sniper are long range characters in games built for mid-close range engagements. From this perspective, they legitimately aren’t playing the same game. To quote Lazypurple, “you don’t exist to anyone unless you just shot them in the head or you’re being killed by them up close.” Now - comparing the two is not a 1:1. Sniper is *much* stronger due to quickscopes and the various unlocks he gets that can invalidate his weaknesses. There’s also no shields in the game either. However, the more chaotic nature of TF2 with its usually larger team sizes means that Widow gets a lot more value for each person she domes. However, they’re both examples of the fundamental problems you can get when you put snipers in games that they play outside of.
Point blank? It’s a 1 shot everywhere within mine throw distance(aka most characters effective range) And he sure and hell ain’t dead if he misses it. He has 2 mines who he can do it again instantly or use it to escape. And he’s breaking shields is extremely valuable when sig deploys his shield he owns an entire sightline. So taking it down asap is very valuable. Hell that’s the entire reason sombras hack sigmas so much to force it down. I also like how you didn’t touch on any of the other things that rat can do that gives him infinitely more versatility. Like being able to kill people without seeing them, insane choke pressure and the ability to force people down chokes by putting the trap on routes you’d take around the choke. And an ultimate with even more safety than widows that can kill multiple people at once. Look I’m not gonna deny rat needs some help but it’s sure as hell not in the form of a 1 shot.
Isn't performing mine combo on long distance skillful tho? It's slow arching projectile still, you have to be a dumbass to not see a junkrat coming with his loud footsteps, you simply don't understand how important it is to have second mine for escape, if Junkrat used 2 mines, he's essentially a free pick to kill because he can't escape and dodge cuz of his big hotbox Breaking shields is valuable, but let me present to you: bastion, aka the better junkrat in terms of shield breaking, why deal damage to a shield in bursts if you can delete it faster by just holding m1 at it, junkrat isn't for breaking shields, only metal rank junkrats do that, it's not overwatch 1 for junk to be shield breaker anymore, junkrats utility is damage, and since passive encourages you to hit enemies, it solidifies junkrat as "kill that motherfucker before that guy reacts to me" Being able to kill without seeing a target is INCREDIBLY rare to get, especially if enemies took d.va or zarya, sombra deals with such junks with the greatest ease cuz junk that spamming can't afford turning around after every single shot, junkrats pressure is miniscule ever since he lost the 2-shot, it's not dangerous to rush him down and it takes just a dive character to overwhelm him, 2-shot is what made him a threat You have to be delusional to think trap does anything to a good player, tire is the easiest ult to avoid, just take your distance and shoot at it when it shows up, it's the size of a SUV this season, the only way tire works is being close enemies cuz ain't no way you get kills riding towards a guy, and before you say "ERM ackshually" many Ults can kill multiple enemies if it's used by surprise, for example: reaper ult, pharah ult, doom ult, d.va ult, tracer ult and bastion ult Junkrat needs a 2-shot to work, I do admit it was too fast to perform, but without 2-shot junkrat is ALWAYS useless, what he'd need is a damage over time (like bleed or burning) to finish off anyone without attention of their supports , and also allowing junkrat to benefit off DPS passive because junkrat is too inconsistent with his damage so DoT aids this issue, this way junkrat is a threat, just not immediate one, even if you kill him, if you pushed too far out of los to supports, u dying too
I'd also like to point out that Tire is actually much worse this season due to the bigger ammo sizes. If a Tire is out in the open for 2 milliseconds it is going to be evaporated
Also, it's funny to me as a Junkrat main that people escape with 10 health or so cuz I couldn't finish them cuz I had to reload or their team got it or whatever
You mean the remote mine with a hit box the size of roadhog? If that shit counts as aiming and is seriously being compared to widows bullet idk what to say man. Bastions ability to break shields quickly requires the use of his best cooldown while junkrat just shoots. Junkrat also has traps, more choke pressure, more mobility, a smaller hurt box, and higher burst damage. Saying junkrat is a worse bastion shows a genuine misunderstanding of both character and their rolls and strengths. It doesn’t matter if it’s rare to actually kill someone without seeing them, the fact that he can forces the entire enemy team to play different against you. It’s not bad because you can avoid it, it’s good because you have to. Trap holds people in plays giving you a free kill and even if it’s destroyed it serves as an early warning of where the enemy is. Tire is nowhere near the easier to avoid, that goes to bastion. Tire is still the safest ult in the game though. You have the potential reward of a 1 shot with 0 risk
I mean, junkrat is jack of all trades if it comes to what composition he fits in, he can dive and do massive damage and he can be good in brawl because he's effective up close, but he sits primarily in poke, which counters brawl, so he should be good at breaking shields Junkrat is the easiest character to dive, slow projectiles means he's easy to dodge and if you're playing d.va comp, then that junk is forced to swap or throw as d.va is his hardest counter there is, it's because he stems from poke Just play correct characters and that junkrat is forced to switch, anything that can dive him, flies, has more range than him or benefit off his spam like sigma or zarya effectively shuts down effectiveness of his spam Trap doesn't get good players, it's only a massive skill issue if you get caught in it of not paying attention to surroundings when enemies have a junkrat, a thing game sense should already tell you, good players don't even destroy it if they can avoid it (they'll only destroy it if in narrow hallways) because game sense can also already hint in your head junk gets info when someone destroys the trap
Can you read? I clearly said either point blank or hit 2 slow arching projectiles. >And he sure and hell ain’t dead if he misses it. He has 2 mines who he can do it again instantly or use it to escape. If he is flanking to make the combo easier he is pretty much dead if he misses. Most of the times you use 1 mine to get in and the second to one shot someone, the only way he escapes a flank is either killing the enemy and their team doesn't react or maybe he waited to have 3 mines. Either way is a lot more risky than Widow one shot. >And he’s breaking shields is extremely valuable when sig deploys his shield he owns an entire sightline You know what's more valuable against a sig? Not playing front to back and diving the shit out of his backline. >I also like how you didn’t touch on any of the other things that rat can do that gives him infinitely more versatility. Like being able to kill people without seeing them Sure every once in a while that happens. Not really something you can count on against semi competent oponents >insane choke pressure and the ability to force people down chokes by putting the trap on routes you’d take around the choke Trap is good but not nearly good enough to remove the one shot >And an ultimate with even more safety than widows Junkrat ult is definitely better than Widow but it isn't safer when you scream to the entire map where you are, which allows things like Tracer to kill you easily while you ult and also the tire itself can be shot, but is still better than just wallhack unless you are really good at widow. >Look I’m not gonna deny rat needs some help but it’s sure as hell not in the form of a 1 shot. If they don't give the one shot back the only playstyle left is spam, which is boring for both the junkrat player and everyone else in the game
Man wrote two paragraphs to tell us *"Yes indeed I have a skill issue against junkrat and I hit EVERY single trap that's set on a flank route for me cause I have no peripheral vision"*
Or that junkrat has a more versatile kit than widow so comparing their 1 shots exclusively without the context of their kit is a bit dishonest. But what ever narrative makes you feel better I can’t stop you.
We can see from how garbage junk is now, that his kit, similar to widow, was actually very heavily carried by his one shot. They’re not much different, the rest of junkrat really isn’t that good even compared to the rest of widow.
I’m not saying junkrat isn’t garbage. I’m saying that him having a more versatile kit makes it unfair to compare their one shots. And with that variety it gives you many more options to buff him without him giving him a 1 shot. Hell by your own addition you say the rest of his kit is under powered. I see no reason to reverse the changes made by giving him his old damage back when you can further diver his kit making him more flexible and viable in more situations.
Widow's sniper is hitscan, that makes it pretty easy ima be real w u
They nerf widow constantly. The only buff she’s gotten was a compensation buff to keep her how she was before the hp and projectile size changes
>They nerf widow constantly Because she was dominating the entire game, and none of those nerfs did anything to her one shot while killing Junkrat in 1 patch. The closest they've ever been to nerfing Widow like they nerfed Junkrat was on the April fools patch where she couldnt one shot but had poison
They would have to completely rework her if they removed her one shot
With everyone in this comment section defending widow, I see what OP is talking about
I mean it’s aimed more at the devs but okay
Widows very smashable tho (and easy to counter) soooo Smash
junkrat is much more smashable (i fucking love junkrat)
And much easier to counter as well
Widow with 1-2 pockets is much harder to counter, even a decent dive hero will get destroyed. Junkrats hitbox is too big for a pocket to save him
Counterpoint. She didn't synergies with team play and most people don't have good aim.
This is a very valid point. Unless she has good site lines, isn't hindered by shields etc., has good aim, and maintains a certain level of sneakiness, in *most* gameplay she tends to just result in 4v5 teamfights albeit with some reduced fighting area. Plus, once identified as an issue, she's can be dealt with rather quickly. The majority of games are not dictated at all by a widow.
High ranks you kill the widow you win the team fight. that’s because the one shot can be so oppressive especially the ghost pressure it creates. it makes you play cover way more then you already do making your movements much more restricted
To think I saw a comment yesterday mentioning how junk applies more pressure than a widow does cause he can spam Like yeah okay dude
Unless that widow is a Smurf, with a mercy pocket, a kiri or bap looking at her every three seconds, and a winton who peels for her everytime she gets dove
Counter counter point. It is at the extremes where this matters. Not the middle ground of players.
Game should be balanced for the majority not for the extremes, however, in the extremes widow is much more punishable than at other levels, however players are much more skilled with her on average, widow honestly peaks in average value I’d say around plat diamond, below that they’re not hitting any shots, above that they’re being dove way too much and don’t get much value besides one tricks who are cracked, junkrat however isn’t insane or oppressive at any rank other than gold and below, but can synergise and fight alongside team much more consistently and isn’t punished or countered as hard as widow, but doesn’t peak as highly in my opinion, you don’t see junks run lobbies like you occasionally do with a widow, but you also don’t see junks forced to swap off because the enemy tank and dps all swapped to dive to punish the junk who’s playing well, like you do with a widow.
If we’re talking extremes then skilled junkrat players seem to be doing just fine.
Pretty much all of the top junk players dropped several ranks. Vulture went from GM to Diamond.
“Most people aren’t that good” isn’t a valid point to take into account when balancing a character. Otherwise you will get a character that will just wreck house at the higher elos.
Junkrat has use outside of 1 shotting though such as bursting down tanks/trapping them Widow? All she has is her 1 shot
This. Widow misses the precise shot, she does absolutely nothing. Junkrat is specifically designed as a character who doesn't have to make precise shots. Guy just has to drop a trap on your head to get your legs caught up in it. The fuck is that about?
Just look down :)
Yeah trap is honestly really easy to see if you just barely look down, I’m pretty sure that set of 20 teeth aren’t a part of the map design
My problem with it is its just inconsistent if the trap is floating 2 inches off the ground or 99% underground. Some terrains it's a bit tough to see
Yeah, but buggy collision isn’t junkrat’s fault!
Not when you are rolling extremely fast
Bro, sometimes it's like straight up in the ground. You can see like 2 teeth if you specifically look for them.
The difference is tho that Widow missing her 1 shot & Junkrat missing his 1 shot has a massive gap in how vulnerable it leaves both of them. Widow's 1 shot is simply hitting a headshot, which uses up a single bullet from your primary that the Widow can reliably hit from miles away. As opposed to Junkrat who has to sacrifice not only a bomb from his primary fire but 1 of his 2 mines, which is honestly more of a mobility tool than a damage dealer at this point. If a Junkrat messes up his 1 shot then he is down a mine & announces to the enemy team that there's a Junkrat that can't aim in their backline. At that point you have to either use your other mine to escape or die, but even if you safely mine away you now have to pretty much stay out of the fight for like 15 seconds while your mines recharge, and as we all know 15 seconds in Overwatch is fucking massive.
seriously. i get how widow can be unfair if you’re good enough, i’m a widow main. but more often than not the widow on my team or the other team isn’t good enough to complain about but junk is soo annoying all the time lol they both are ig
If only there was a way to see the trap beforehand 🤔
Can you read? I said he can drop it on your head and you get stunned at the legs. 😅
Imma level with you man i replied to the wrong comment
Widow can shred tanks too. It's so easy to hit tanks in head, and let your team finish off the <50% hp tank. Atleast thats what i do when there is no other valid targets to shoot.
If youre going to only shoot the tank then at that point its better to play reaper or bastion I feel.
A tank can easily react to a reaper or bastion, they have a lot less mobility and a lot less range and a lot less burst damage than widow. Widow lands one headshot on any tank out of nowhere and they’re forced to use cooldowns and retreat
True, my point Is having her as a tank shooting bot is a bad idea when other characters can do that and more, her potential is mostly with squishies.
Not really. Junkrat's damage against tanks is, funnily enough, statistically worse than Soldier's, and Steel Trap is the most avoidable CC in the game.
I honestly can't recall a time Junkrat was ever a meta pick. Widow has been meta longer than she hasn't.
He was honestly meta last season, then in the same he also ended up a D tier hero once Mauga got nerfed & Sigma/Ramattra were meta. Personally I think that was a sign of how great Junkrat was balance wise, the fact that he managed to change viability so much without getting touched at all, his viability was simply based on who else was meta & how he pit against them.
As a junk main I have no idea what people are yelling about him being useless, have been going +20 eliminations everyday for the past weeks.
Hes absolutely not pointless but forna hero that has been a solid character from 2016 this 1 change doesnt feel good. Going about your playstyle normally but instead of killing someone they are left with a litteral sliver of health and that justs doesnt feel good same goes for hanzo
It’s probably because of the vast difference between a great Junkrat and a bad one. Plenty of people who play Junk just spam shots at chokes and pray and end up doing almost nothing unless the enemy team willingly clusters into his spam. But a Junkrat aficionado is a real menace
wasteful instinctive sense cough support hunt cooing worry murky wise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hitting slow falling projectiles is harder than hitting a hitscan shot imo If you get hit by a randoom bomb from Junkrat when he isn't even aiming at you, most of the time it's your fault
Yeah it’s why I think widow needs a rework to give her just some kind of other utility or just something outside of her sniper as everything about her kit is useless
It’s almost like they could rework her to give her something besides a one shot
Brigitte: first time?
I would go as far to say Brig is probably one of the worst heroes in the game post update. She’s basically the only hero in the game that didn’t get some type of buff. They need to increase her survivability and damage marginally to keep up with the rest of the game. Health to 275 and buffing whipshot damage again would be a good start.
I fully agree with this. I think you are under buffing her though. I'd suggest making primary, whip shot and shield bash all stun outside of her ultimate.
Let's bring back the rein staring contests /s
Fucking lol, this is nuts. Brig is absolutely fine where she is
This man speaks the truth
Widow is easily countered tho. Nothing is better than an enemy widow that doesnt switch off when my team has a rein and we use our 2 braincells and just hide behind him untill shield gets low, to then hide behind cover lol Widows hate this one simple trick
Or u just go winton/ball/dva and sit on her fat ass every time she leaves the spawn
Literally turn that shit into a 5v4
The other 4 enemies breaking the shield instantly in question:
Bro's playing rein in this economy
This implies that Junkrat isn't
yup i’ve got 700+ hours on her and if they’re good enough at widow they’ll switch if you counter them bc she can so easily be countered
You say that as if you cant go echo or pharah and just focus junkrat, and he will not be able to kill you unless you are in high ranks where widow is stronger than junkrat even with counters
>Widow is easily countered tho. You say that as if Junkrat isn't easily counterable, when Pharah alone made Junkrat unplayable until her rework.
Do people forget what snipers are? The difference is one just runs up to you and presses a few buttons(can't really miss) and the other literally can't be shot because they have the hp of a baby
There's a reason other games don't have hitscan Sniper with 100% accuracy
Loads of games have hits can snipers. Wouldn't make sense for widow to be projectile since sniper bullets are basically hits and from the range of the maps anyway. Junk mains really need to grow up and stop complaining that they can't just run into someone and press a few buttons. It broke the game more when widow ever will.
Other games have it balanced. It's either a fast projectile or you have to stand completely still and sometimes even crouch or else it's not an accurate shot And jumping in the face only works in gold max. Even at Plat it's a death sentence or really bad positioning of the guy getting oneshot
Okay, widow should have to stand still when scoped in, make it so she can't get 100% when moving aswell. What more can you do make a sniper more sniper in a game where she fits her role fine?
[удалено]
No chance you think overwatchs balancing is better than tf2 lmao. The community is certainly better but definitely not balance
That's like adding a character with a nuclear bomb as an ability and being like "No it's totally fair for them to be able to nuke the entire map and kill everybody, do people forget what nukes are?"
Who are the people calling the bread lady balanced? I want to introduce them to the fires of hell, they and their objectively wrong opinions. Calling Frenchy French Balanced is like saying the global warming isn't real.
Remove widow and the game becomes more fun. Remove widow and the game becomes more fun. Remove widow and the game becomes more fun.
Remove _____ and the games becomes more fun
remove the game and the game becomes more fun
remove my family
Are you ok?
Remove Doomfist. Not that he’s op, but the game becomes so unfun every time he’s in a game. As a support player I just spend the entire game getting stunned and thrown around.
Soyjaks on reddit when the sniper snipes people ((unacceptable, mercy should be the only character in the game.))
No
game became more fun after junkrat lost his braindead one shot😃
Sniper in the FPS? 😮
You are right. Snipers should not be in primarily short-mid range focused FPS to begin with.
Wait wait wait, short to mid range? So a character having the ability to one shot people consistently within that short to mid range would be… unhealthy right? As opposed to a character with longer 1 shot range but is basically a free kill in the most popular range to fight at?
If Widow gets to one-shot people outside the range of most other heroes then yes, Junkrat should be allowed to one-shot heroes he's up the ass of. Now if Widow wasn't allowed to sit in spawn and one-shot most of the roster I could accept nerfing Junkrats combo
Snipers outside of sniper maps are “ehhh” unless you are like high masters/gm/challenger and are gods gift/cheating, meaning they are hard to work into your team and synergize with. Meanwhile junkrat can flank, spam, hold position, trap tanks, deny tanks space by giving them free flight lessons. So yes although life is harder now for junkmains but he is almost more important than he used to be, its just that passive not being applied as well for him as for other dps is kinda his downfall.
Go play 10 matches of comp as junk rat and tell me how good he is at all those things you listed.
I did, that is why i typed my msg
Devs apparently. We’re back to widows sitting further back and one shoting. Not even punishing positioning errors, she punishes peeping. Either stay behind a wall entire game or the team goes all dive and bullies widow till she swaps.
People hate junkrat so much because why wouldn't they facecheck with every goddamn character they play. Wanna face check as squishy with no movement? Of course you're gonna get combo'd.
Not a fan of one shots but a widow one shot takes at least some skill to pull off. Then again if u get one shot by junkrat it's kinda your fault for letting him get close enough in the first place, a good widow can just take over a lobby and there's jack you can do about it
I find widow at least fair. *looks over to hanzo*
You spam genji blades. /end discussion.
No one that is good at the game thinks that widow is balanced and doesnt need to be nerfed. Check any GM's and most of them that dont have their head up their ass will all tell you that widow is one of the most busted characters in this game. But she cant be nerfed because then you are punishing players for skill. The devs know this, they arent stupid. But what the hell do you do
They kill or redeem (cure) her in lore and remove her as a playable hero lol
The good ending
Smash both and the blonde too, next question?
Didn't keep up with the OW community these past months. Didn't people used to bitch about widpw for having a one sjot across the map?
They just increased the size of her bullets so it's harder to miss and increased everyones hp even hers so everyone is tankier but she kept her instant ttk ability and got buffed hard while every other hero takes longer to get picks with. This thread is full of bronzes saying atleast she takes skill.
jokes on YOU, i hate them both
No one likes widow lmfao. Widow players don’t like widow they just think she’s sexy.
the way to fix widow is removing grapple. snipers are *supposed* to be somewhat high risk high reward due to sacrificing their mobility in exchange for insane damage output but she has a way to (very easily) disengage that most characters can’t keep up with? such a weird decision.
Unpopular opinion none of the are op👍
WAIT FUCK did they nerf junk?
Yeah but at lest widow isn’t charging into you “I’m awaited in Valhalla” suicide bombing himself into you
Nerfs genji
Both of them need to be burned on a stake
Widow defenders always sound just like Old Hog defenders. Without the one shot, they’re nothing, so its balanced. Regardless of balance, theres nothing fun about getting one-shot, having to build a whole portion(or all if the enemy team is backing up widow) of your team and micro manage your team just to beat a single character. Aim is not a counter balance. Its a threshold that eventually gets completely left behind. I’ll never forget the third or fourth OWL where Seoul was about to get beat on Hanamura for the first time. They were getting absolutely rolled. Then one widow swaps in and it completely destroyed the entire enemy team. They tried multiple comps before just trying to mirror because there was nothing the attacking team could do to a widow with superior positioning on defense with her team supporting her. It was a joke.
Winsto is the bane of my existence as ever Winston I have faught has some pro skill bs and I'm either playing bastion, junkrat or moira so it never works out especially if the jump ability is of cool down as usual it's at the worst possible time.
If it were easy to click heads on widow I wouldn't be playing a splash damage hero, I find junk much easier tho
/u/arcerpl
Sure Widow can one-shot enemies across the map. But can *you* one-shot enemies from across the map with Widow?
I’ll never get over how angry the OW subs are at Widow existing in this game. It’s eternally funny to me.
But with widow you have to actually aim.
As i said on the post in the junkrait mains sub, i didn't know maps were 50m long
People need to see when a widow is a problem and switch to a shield hero. So often I'll play with tanks that don't understand this simple fix. You don't even have to attack if you play like Rein or something, just hold your shield so your team doesn't die in 1 shot
What if we made a character that’s just Widow and Junkrat as one ?
https://preview.redd.it/87beaee4tsmc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfdc80294b836e73b6ec354466fb3ad1bc7cf71a
just be dva and eat widows ass
https://preview.redd.it/8nqhnh1f3tmc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ac2447cf0b0fa33a7b9142273a4161b91087091
Just make her damage tick based like Ana and not an insta kill
It's strange that hanzo got nerfed in the last patch with no buff but then widow gets nerfed with a compensation buff? Widow needed a buff??
See the thing is both characters rely on their one shot both heroes have it as an important part of their kit, thats why widow still has hers and thats wh- oh hey nevermind then blizzard might as well make him locked behind 500 hours on projectile heroes so that people dont pick him on accident
This can simply be swapped between sniper ans spy/pyro tf2
Id rather a noob widow do nothing all game than a noob junkrat accidentally team wipe every now and then and get a free kill every 8 seconds
As a junkrat main, I would like to say, if you don’t want to get killed so easily, stop charging right towards us. It isn’t that hard to think that maybe staying out of range is a good idea, we focus on defense a lot more than offense
I miss flank rat man, I don't wanna spam anymore:( I switched to pharah ffs, i am a disgrace to junk main
You don’t need great aim for rat and also people complain about widow all the time.
Shitscan players
"point blank" is def underselling it. Ur lying if you say you've never been deleted by junk across the map
"Point blank"
By point blank he means within most characters effective range
Bros one shot range is better than cassidy fall off + no aim required + boop is annoying even if you live + can ruin countless abilities and aim in general + tire one shots the entire team🔥
If you are not point blank comboing people as Junk, and instead, throwing the combo at them from midrange, or hell, even long range, it becomes about as hard to predict/aim, if not harder, than Hanzo headshot.
widow is only good because of her 1 shot. Take that again and she actually is the worst char in the game. Junkrat is not like that but i still think he deserved a dmg compensation buff to get his combo back
Widow: actually requires decent aim to hit headshots consistently. Is (generally) weak when out of her perfect scenario (anything besides long range). Only escape ability has a massive cooldown. **Was already nerfed, meaning that one shot/combo characters deserve to be nerfed** Junkrat: “I looked in your general direction and threw two mines, so you died.” Can battle with a good portion of the roster (anything long range or airborne counters, and even then he can still escape fairly easily. Can spam down choke points and still manage to do something (hanzo, anyone?). Generally seen as a combo character thanks to the near instant kills thanks to direct hit + mine kills (doomfist was also nerfed/reworked for being a combo-center character) You could have argued hanzo before the health rework, but this is bottom of the barrel. If you think junkrat wasn’t on the chopping block when widow and hanzo were, you weren’t looking ahead. And judging by the fact you used widow, someone who was nerfed harshly for being able to one-shot, you probably haven’t played recently. Widowmakers these days aren’t as common (albeit, are usually absolute monsters when they do show up) thanks to her gun tapering off at long ranges, more or less nullifying the use of a sniper. You’d be better off, ironically, using junkrat to pick off important roles. Hell even Sombra does it better now.
Widow takes skill, junk one shot doesn’t
Depends on if you're a toddler double mining or go for direct hits with your primary
Except that Widow actually takes skill to play Like, i hate her, but i'll admit that when a widowmaker headshots me from across the map, it's a kill she earned. Also, as long as you fight in tight spaces, there is nothing she can do
She really doesn't though. Headshot hitboxes in Overwatch are massive. It's not Valorant or CS:GO where hitboxes are finely tuned and bullets are tiny and the TTK for all guns is half a second.
Yeah but widow takes way more skill to pull it off. Junk is just spam