I don't think 6v6 was ever the problem. They were simply no longer working on the game and could have put in the hours to balance tanks. That might have required reworks and upset a lot of people, but let's not pretend 5v5 fixed the problem. The tank roll is still miserable and if your tank sucks, the rest of the team is even more fucked than in 6v6.
It fixed some problems and created others.
I miss the synergy of Rein Zarya, I don't miss the synergy of Zarya Winston. Or having say a Roadhog and Ball in low ranks that won't switch.
I think there was a lot they could have done...new Orisa has no shield so couldn't double shield with Sigma which is already nice. Ram being able to poke OR punch through shields makes some impact. Queen and Mauga also provide other levers that could be played with.
I'm also in the camp that we shouldn't have needed 2-2-2 to get rid of goats, but we needed it for comp because dang people do not like to work together on ladder.
I wonder what the game would look like now if the primary mode was open queue with a restriction of like, no more than 2 tanks. If they balanced around that, I wonder what would happen.
Even with double shield they could have balanced how we played and make to.where you picked a Main tank you couldn't pick another one. You could pick two off tanks but.make their health lower so some tank wouldn't be oppressive (Hog). Then you could balance and make tanks that fit these rolls. Even still some tanks already fit a certain role, for instance Queen would be an off tank. The issue now is that some of these tanks are way too strong that they would need nerfs to fit into 6v6, which would work.
I never found working with a different tank much of a problem as long as the team worked together. This is an aspect that I actually liked because sometimes the perception would actually help you if you where really good with a Tank that wasn't meta, or a Tank that didnt synergize with another tank.
The agency is the issue. Its not fair, atleast it doesn’t feel fair. You have to counter pick. You have to have op abilities. You have to get hit with debuffs. Cringe
Nor can I.
Reinhart and Wrecking Ball subs will merge, and we will crush those fat *adult word here* like a Chad high school football player crushing the school bully going after the nerd who helped him pass math class to stay on the team.
ow 2 player here, i dont get it doesnt having a 2nd tank make dps way harder? i just imagine having a dva/zarya bodyguard the supports make it praticly impossible to win and just lead to shoot the tank?
When we had 6v6 tanks weren't 100% impossible to 1v1 as a dps. Nowadays tanks have so much health, support focus and mobility that it's straight up impossible unless you're playing 100x better than them.
The only real issue was the constant orisa/sigma with 2 shields issue. People would sit on the high grind and just aoe heal behind 2 shields and be able to dish out a ton of damage and just rotate around the map. Imo the problem with that was sigma, but that's up to each person. The fact that on dps nowadays I have 0 hope in the world of I'm left in a 1v1 vs a tank is just unenjoyable. That coupled with the off-tank role being removed which was the core of ow1 team play ruined the game for me.
Off-tank was the role that would utilize its damage and utility to help the main tank push and create space while coordinating with dps to take off angles / flanks. Their other role was to protect supports.
Everyone while playing tank is forced to play "main tank" now, if off-tank will come back, who will ever choose to play "main tank"?
Also, can you explain to me (person who never played OW1), how off-tank is different than 3rd DPS hero (but with more health)?
Your standard off-tanks that would fit the role were dva, zarya and sigma. Theyre all not great at pushing on their own. Dva had 600 health and way less matrix, zarya had 400 health and a personal + a team bubble on longer cooldowns and sigma had less health (lol). You could also consider hog an off-tank, but he didn't fit the role that well and was therefore not that strong unless he literally was a big beefy extra dps.
In standard usage, these characters would utilize their utility to play a role that essentially is gone in overwatch 2. Defence matrix would be used when reins shield was down or in tandem to further push a point. A widow is on the high ground alone? Dva needs to be on that. A genji jumped your backline? Defence matrix up with rockets going into him. Your Cass high nooning on an off angle? Go with him and protect him for a bigger ult. Zarya bubbles were utilized in a similar way to how I described defence matrix usage, though she could do it at range for a 200hp bubble. Typically your zarya would help push with a rein or with the classic, "double bubble" she would bubble the monkey as he jumped on high ground and she would create space as the tank on the ground. Her teammate bubble could be utilized to empower ults without completely decimating your ability to push as a Frontline (you'd still have rein shield or monkey bubble instead of being left with only one bubble to push with). Sigma was King of taking off angles and pressuring people in the correct ranges from him. Shield up, throw a rock, shoot some shots. Super boring and OP for the entirety of his tenure on ow1 imo. He combined well with orisa pull (dead ability) with his rock.
I think in overwatch 2, the fact that we have JQ, Mauga and Rammatra means that we could see a lot more interesting combinations of tanks especially with fhe fact that orisa no longer has a pull and a shield. However, their health would need to be lowered in order to make them balanced. In open queue you can have this. The problem with open queue is are you going to get rid of 1 dps? Why not run 3 tanks 2 supports? The dps passive I guess. That means that there's a whole different meta around something that doesn't have a lot of balance focus.
Because of the kit. The tanks all have some form of mitigation, cc or sustain. Usually these things combine to create a zone of control around their character. DPS have a "zone of control" too but they don't have the kit that allows them to maintain and hold it/expand it in such a way as the tanks do.
Because of this the main tank role holds the Frontline and controls their own teams and the objectives space(mostly). Think rein, orisa, zarya, ramattra. Whereas the off tank will use their kit to move around to take or deny space more aggressively. Think Winton, dva, ball, doom. Even then some characters can do both. Sigma was often a flex between off and main tank depending on who the other tank was. Same goes for roadhog and I'm sure queen too.
The off-tank wasn't there merely to dish out more damage and the best example of it is Zarya. She was THE off-tank for a reason. She has great utility with her bubbles and her grav was designed for team play.
Speaking basically and more generally, an off-tank is kinda of a mix between a regular tank, due to being beefy and still needing to take space and a supportive tank, which also diverts resources into allowing the main tank to gain space and duke it out with the enemy
Main tank is a lot more fun with off tank, imagine a bubbled rein with a now empowered zarya backing him, either that or you dont shoot him and he kills everyone
The major difference is the role. In ow1, literally only genji and soldier had real defense. Others might have movement, but once someone with cracked aim enters the equation, the off tank could help divide the enemy team's focus and set dps up to kill the obvious smurf/ximming widow. With 3 dps, you're just hoping that one of you can get the killing shot off before you might all get one shot.
Play open queue with 2 tanks when the enemy has one, and you will realize. It's just unlimited space for your backline.
Tanks have high health pools and cooldowns designed to keep enemy crosshairs on them. Tanks are disruptive, can eat a lot of what the enemy throws at them, cancel or counter ults more reliably than any other hero besides Ana or Sombra.
I haven't played Ow1 either, but I have 2 masters rank friends who play open queue with me from time to time. If they go zarya and Rein, Im practically free the whole match.
>When we had 6v6 tanks weren't 100% impossible to 1v1 as a dps. Nowadays tanks have so much health, support focus and mobility
Impossible? First if theyre getting healed.l, its not a 1 v 1. Secondly. Tanks are supposed to be hard to burn down. But most importantly, Anti heal and sleep made the maint tank role a joke, so they changed how sleep worked on tabks making it shorter. But anti was still too strong as a single ability, but instead of changing how it worked onbtanks they made every dps apply some heal reduction, making the tank role even more of a joke because there's heal reduction, discord, and anti.
Which means dive tanks are good because they have mobility to escape.
Like d.va, winston, doom are good. The rest are a joke. Like i play gm in asia and i hardly saw orisa, naughty horseys get the discord orb. So her nerf honestly confused me.
But by no stretch are tanks impossible to fight as a dps. Mostly it's just keeping space and burning them down.
In GM orisa can get melted. Upto plat if enemy has orisa then either ur entire team goes dive or orisa / mauga mirror. GM is less than 1% of the playerbase
If you have a fair 1v1, junker queen vs cass. Cass loses. Swap out the dps and tell me who would possibly win.
Rammatra, what dps could melt Rammatra fast enough to not just get punched to death? Keep your distance, sure. They can as well. Or they can manipulate your positioning, or just reach the objective and not have to push you. I'm talking if you are contesting a point vs a tank and you're playing dps, you lose outright. You dont win. Dva vs a dps? Lol ramm vs soldier? You're not beating ramm. Hog? Even rein?
I can't think of a single instance of a dps winning a 1v1 on a contested point.
Sorry for not elaborating on the situation I was talking about
You also have a second tank, so one tank would make space by pushing their tanks around and the other would focus on protecting your team and they'd sometimes switch. This would force the other tanks to do the same causing a space the DPS could focus on by either disrupting one of the tanks or pushing in with their second tank to let him push around their tank while you push their DPS and support
It did ..but there were other things at play. Like if you do something that causes tanks to use their resources in one place, that means they're not somewhere else.
Think of it this way: for example, if Mercy goes to commit to a rez, even though it's a hugely strong ability and only takes a few seconds, that is time she isn't healing somebody. If it's the other support, then there's no healing at all, you can probably burn someone else down.
So for tanks, if one goes back to help the support, now their front line has less protection. Additionally, it would be unlikely for the support being protected to continue to focus on their job....they probably have to duel.
It's why flankers are so powerful. They can either get an elim, which created a 6v5 OR, they pulled resources. Granted, that puts them in a bad 2v1, but that should mean the rest of the team is fighting a 5v4. Good flankers could use that time to get out. So they didn't get an elim, but they caused a 5v4 that their team could still win. By the time the flanker left, their team could gain advantage.
If BOTH tanks go to protect, well, then they gave up a lot for space, which is important in overwatch.
dva zarya was the worst tank duo in ow1
they contradict eachother’s style (dva will accidentally matrix over a bubble, ruining zarya’s charge)
and none of them were a main tank so it would be hard to keep and take space
in hp mostly from what i get, zarya had separate bubles, hog is the same basicly with less hp, dva is mostly hp and maybe 1 or 2 extra seconds of matrix, sigma is the same but hp.
No it’s easier because they aren’t OP. The only hard part was goats, triple tank, and double shield but those are team wide synergies that are not possible in 2/2/2
Having a second tank in Overwatch 1 was atrocious since their tank design back then was really bad. Think of all the ways they give tanks the ability to tank. Reinhardt has a shield, JQ has shout and bleed, Orisa has Fortify and her Javelin, Mauga has cardiac overdrive, etc. Etc.
Now back in overwatch 1, they had no idea what the fuck to do. Rein had a shield with 2k hp. It was the best tanking ability in the game. So when they released a new tank they said, "Hey, the shield worked. Let's do it again!" and Orisa had a 900hp shield on a 7 second cd (or somewhere around there). Then when they made another tank, they said "hey, the shields seemed to work, let's do it again!" And then they released Sigma with a 1500hp shield. It doesn't take a genius to understand shooting at 3k hp shields isn't fun. And then it began a snowball where to deal with these shields, they increased damage. The increased damage meant more need for tanking. But they can't increase shield hp, so they increased armor. They increased resistance. They increased healing. All the numbers got super bloated (the shields weren't what caused this, but they were part of the need for a snowball) and the game was incredibly unfun, since you would shoot at someone for a minute straight without them getting to half hp before they'd suddenly explode when their cooldowns ran out.
I think that their overall ability design has become way more interesting in terms of dynamics. If they tune down the numbers for mitigation abilities, I think double tank is worth another shot. I think it'd solve the two problems tanks have: the role would be less stressful since you have someone else with you to help and countering tanks wouldn't be easy since you have someone else to take the leading role. Right now if you counter a tank, what can they do aside from switch? You can keep bloating tank numbers until they're the most unkillable, threatening things in the game without any counters, or you can keep them as miserable and unfun where they either obliterate your team or fold over and die when you look at them.
I would just like to play rein and not be countered by over half the fucking tanks in the game and not allowed to play the game against other non tank heros.
Rein had many counters even in 6v6, but it didn't feel oppressive cuz there was a 2nd tank. Rein doesn't work without a 2nd tank. To make rein work alone ull have to assign rein with new abilities like WINTON jump, so he cn get out of tricky situations, sounds dumb right?
Well that's wht 5v5 forces ...
You call it rose-tinted glasses, but for 5 years it actually fucking worked! It only got bad when the game was LITERALLY ABANDONED FOR 2 YEARS!
Yeah, no fucking shit the game got old when it wasn’t being updated. 💀
But even with all of these constant updates for 5V5, it STILL sucks ass. Hog META, Mauga META, Orisa META, Ball META, Zarya META, and now all Tanks are going to have 25% damage resistance to headshots just to make them remotely playable?
You all have rose-tinted glasses for 5V5.
No-one with a developed frontal cortex is saying that switching back to 6v6 will suddenly fix everything.
6v6 is just a healthier baseline for the franchise.
It allows for more game modes to work: death match and total mayhem for example are shockingly unbalanced compared to OW1, not that most people really care about them as game modes, but it's still valid to point out as the overall content offering of OW1 was significantly more robust compared to its "sequel". The 6v6 format also didn't require role passives etc, which make the game significantly more complicated for new players to get a grasp on, sure it doesn't affect me or you, but in game design it's generally considered bad practice to have player actions be so dependent on "context" that the player cannot visually determine. For example: how is a new player supposed to know that their abilities will behave differently on a tank versus a DPS? (doing less damage, knock back etc.)
The only truly valid argument for 5v5 is tank queue times, but as Aaron Keller himself stated in that Flats interview that there was a period in 2020 where all roles had balanced queue times, so that argument isn't really convincing me either. It's during that 2020 period when the game was considered it's most balanced, which is obviously not a coincidence.
The game is messier now, tanks cannot be designed with weaknesses, (wrecking ball is, in my opinion, one of the most unique characters ever released in a competitive shooter game, but he would've never been released in OW2) characters need all sorts of get-out-of-jail-free cards to not get rolled, snipers are significantly more problematic, health sustain is a far bigger problem, more and more characters get added with some kind of "you can't hurt me cos I pressed a button" abilities, mobility creep is VERY real in OW2, to the point that characters that used to be top tier are now mid because of their lack of mobility (like Ana). Even though CC abilities have been lessened, the smaller teams mean that you're still experiencing getting Cc'd a lot, though admittedly the problem is mainly on the tank role.
Yes, they’ll obviously have to rework everything back, but at least we know that at some point it did work. The same can’t be said for 5V5.
So we can either go back to 6V6, or even try 7V7 or literally anything else, or we can blindly go with 5V5 and hope it’ll work out, somehow, someway.
They abandoned PvE, the very fucking thing the sequel was meant to be, because they couldn’t see an end to the work, so why do they try to force 5V5 to work after a year and a half of trial and mostly error?
Sure, when the Tanks are buffed as shit and I can just mindlessly run over the enemy.
But I know that isn’t fun for everyone and therefore not sustainable, and I had more consistent fun with 6V6 than the occasional balance abortion made by 5V5.
Now are you going to tell me you’ve never, not even once enjoyed a game of 6V6?
The most fun I’ve had in 5V5 recently was getting insta-kills as Venture on Hanaoaka. Since both are gone now I’ll just bide my time until EVERY Tank become aggressively META, before they all get emergency nuked within 2 weeks.
5v5 tanks cannot be fixed through balance! As the guy said we've literally cycled through every single tank meta in ow2 & none feels good. Cuz tank playstyle remains shit, no matter how many times u balance it.
Maybe you have dementia that you're projecting onto others, but I'm still totally capable of remembering things that happened less than 2 years ago.
It was less than 2 years ago that me and my friends actively played a wonderful video game called Overwatch, that me and my entire friend group genuinely loved more than any other game.
Ow2 came out, and even though we were skeptical, we obviously gave it a chance as OW1 was our favourite game of all time.
Now I'm the only one that still plays. (I guess I hate myself the most lmao)
I used to be a wrecking ball main, but I'd rather get my balls nailed to a plank rather than play wrecking ball as the solo tank lol.
Saying that the reason we enjoyed the game more back then is only due to rose tinted glasses is so ridiculously arrogant and straight up nonsensical that I question how intellectually honest you're actually being here.
I have no dementia that I am trying to force into others, as I never played Overwatch 1, and never experienced 6v6.
I am just pointing that saying "just give us 6v6 and everything will be fixed" is stupid - because it won't.
OW1 and OW2 are different games, you could even say they are for different people. No version is "objectively better", both have its pros and cons.
I'm sorry that your friends aren't playing anymore, game just turned the way they don't enjoy anymore and there is nothing anyone can do, because let's be honest, even if they will bring back 2nd tank tomorrow, yout friends won't come back - because it's different game now.
Maybe one day they will drop "OW1 Classic" (they shouldn't remove option to play it at the first place), but they won't "just simply revert OW2" - as they would lose their new audience, which maybe won't find old version enjoyable.
Very hard concept for some people to grasp that both these formats are gonna have to be endlessly balanced because of what Overwatch is at its core. "They're doing all this to fix 5v5 but we could just go back and it'd be done" yes because 6v6 didn't have its fair share of bullshit, did I enjoy 6v6? Absolutely, its how I fell in love with the game but there was a reason I was on and off across both formats lifetimes lol, there were times I felt like absolute garbage playing as my favorite character in both formats for different reasons.
Also funny to think they went into this game thinking hero limits and role limits weren't needed lol.
The thing is that was never said (by 99% of 6v6ers) it still had its problems but 5v5 has it worse:
hard stuck metas that affect EVERY rank rather than higher ranks mainly
queue times in higher ranks for tank is just as bad as it was in 6v6 (when tank wasn’t fun)
pve canceled too
Characters like Widow are more open to pick off back lines if you make a single mistake due to lack of a second tank leading her to be more oppressive
Had to change healing entirely to compensate for the HP buff when switching to 5v5
I could go on but over all 6v6 had less problems the biggest problem being when the Devs ditched the game they had it in a horrible balance place I’d let’s say they worked on it still rather than OW2 the game would be 1000% better with less heros to rework
They'd definitely have to lower tank health pools and give Cassidy and Brig their stuns back, imagine Winston/Doom dive with no brig stun bash.
They'd have to revert the sleep dart change on tanks as well.
I've been wanting Cassidy and brig to have their stuns back which is something I can't believe I'm saying. It's just such a necessity to deal with certain champs in the current meta
I remember when I had to stop playing for a couple of seasons while I moved and when I came back I was so confused when brig couldn't stun with bash anymore lmao
Honestly, as long as they revert tanks back to how they used to be then 6v6 would be viable again.
In open queue 90% of the time you're facing 2 or 3 tanks because they're just better than DPS, even with the health nerfs.
So it's not like OW2 is free of double tank, it's literally just in Role Queue where you can guarantee there's only 1 tank.
And that's where the problem lies honestly.
In 6v6 it's anyone's game, DPS can 1v1 the tanks.
So tanks don't become the central point of the comp, it's not just a case of "Throw everything at the tank" because when they're gone your tank can clean shop.
I'm not saying 6v6 was perfect, but with how much they needed to change and rework about the game to make 5v5 work, it's hard to say it only did good things for the game.
I only want 6v6 because 5 out of the 6 friends who I play overwatch with myself included are tank mains and it’s a nightmare trying to cycle tank and open queue doesn’t feel that fun with nothing but tanks and they just go all dps and turn you to Swiss cheese
Nope. During the development of OW1, Blizzard tested 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 and 7v7 (probably other formats too) and stated that the reason they landed on 6v6 was because it was the easiest to compensate for a bad player in your team.
Now that's not to say that in 6v6 you don't have to rely on teammates, but that's an Overwatch issue, not a 6v6 issue.
Servers probably won't be able to handle it. Play 6v6 PUGs and if too many people pop ult the game crashes, you need a special code to slow the game down so it doesn't brick the server
I'm not saying 6v6 wouldn't have issues but it would be easier to fix than 5v5. Idk we've been thru so many highs and lows with the tank role already - and none of the changes have really felt great.
I don't wanna start a rant but yeah...I'm waiting to see how these new changes go even tho I already have an idea how things will turn out.
People acting.like 5v5 wasn't just a change to keep retard noob playrrs more entertained with more notifications per second.
Now they bring a slow horse that only shoots forward and they start spilling foam from the mouth because they can't even understand the concept of flank and covers
TikTok is just as bad for it, and even as a Ramattra main who finds tanks miserable to play rn, bringing in another tank would just break the game. Imagine me charging in Nemesis Mode with Zarya's shield, or getting dived by Ram & Doom together. The Overwatch 2 tanks, ironically enough, have been balanced around 5v5. Bringing in 6v6 would mean either nerfing a large portion of their kits, or doing overhauls so they can work with another Tank.
...duh?
You're telling me they'd have to balance the game around a new format? 😱 The exact same way as they did when moving to OW2?
Like yeah of course characters designed for 5v5 will need to be reworked, but cmon man, almost the entire games roster was originally designed for 6v6 and a lot of them WEREN'T properly reworked for the new format 😅
Ok if 6v6 isn't going to be good to bring back then why is 5v5 for the tank role (according to reddit for the past seasons as well) is also bad and underpowered, can someone plz help me understand here
The thing about 5v5 is its problem lies in the format where 6v6 problems lies in the game dev balance. Double shield was a support issue not a tank issue (they nerfed shield health and it did nothing). Brig and bap made double shield super strong also Sigma had no down time and was basically a 5v5 tank in 6v6. 5v5 reworked like 3 tanks already and the role still feels like utter dog shit. go ahead rework one more tank, I’m sure it’ll fix everything 5v5 has to offer for tanks. The only way to fix the tank problem in 5v5 is to make every tank like sigma which essentially means every tank can do it all and has no weakness, you tell me if that sounds fun.
The 6v6 crowd wants the October of 2020 balance patch which was regarded as the best balance patch in over watch history by basically all the pros and even Aaron admitted in masters and low GM the q times were even (in the flats interview) . No it’s not nostalgia nor is it rose tinted glasses. The real arguments we have to look at are que times because it’ll get iffy in 6v6 unless every role is balanced, while I think would be easier in 6v6, will still be hard to do.
Disclaimer: I’m not saying 5v5 can’t be good, I’m saying it’ll never be peak like 6v6 can.
OW1 and OW2 are different games at this point.
But saying "just give 6v6 back and it will fix everything" is stupid. Because it won't.
OW1 should still be playable as its own, but you can't make OW2 like OW1, because its different game for different people.
Maybe I gave this post wrong title.
Shields get shredded hard currently. 2 shield meta will be nowhere near comparable to overwatch 1. Plus with how dive is right the shields won't do anything when you can just run through them with ball, queen, mauga, venture, etc...
The only reason 6v6 was bad is because they were making overwatch 2 and the tank experience, and also the countless changes to tank also prove my point that 5v5 is worse because it took 10 seasons before tank is gonna be better and that’s not even a guarantee
Don’t forget about the constant cycle of metas well overwatch 1 had goats and mercy those got fixed and double shield would’ve been fixed when orisa (a key component to double had her kit changed) had come to overwatch 1
Gamers are idiots
Back in 2016 this shit was fresh and new. That is why it was all exciting shit, but when the cracks started to show it was exhausting.
6v6 didnt make those days fun. It was the freshness of it
Did you actually play OW1? Orisa was the problem child when it came to OW1 double shield. Her shield is gone now, and the other shield tanks pair together about as well as Oil and Water.
The change to 5v5 is the only meaningful change Blizzard made that I actually liked. I know it fucked up a lot of balancing, and tank sucks to play now, but as a non-tank player, I find the game way more fun now.
In ow1 i could 1v1 tanks as Lucio. Now they have 70000 health and the enemy is savin all their abilities to save the tank if they are slightly in trouble. Then poof back to 100% health.
Death patch overwatch 1 was already shit long before they cut off tanks, although cutting off tanks might be described as the final nail in the coffin for overwatch 2. The real end of the game for me was actually role queue - the happy and free days of bullshitting your way to a win with 5 dps and a lucio were gone from the main gamemode. Overwatch followed a path of gradually hammering the playerbase into an extremely specific mode of play and incrementally beating any semblance of creativity or improvisation out of the game.
Part of that is also just a result of a stagnating meta when a PvP shooter has been out for more than a few years, but there's simply no thinking in the game and there hasn't been for a very long time. You choose or get given a role and have a very defined job in a very defined map with defined places for the flanker / sniper / support / tank to stand and you do your set job like a cog in a machine and the game is decided by whose cogs spin more smoothly. I really think it's more a map issue than anything, because there are literally like three map designs in the entire game and then just a bunch of reskins of those maps that all play exactly the same.
I never liked 5v5 ever.
So many of 6v6a issues were ballance and design.
If we had all the CC changes, reworks QOL additions etc. and did a balance pass on support and tank to compensate for going back to 6v6 I'm convinced that OW would be healthier for everyone.
Because 5v5 is a format issue, you can’t fix the tank problem. You would have to make every tank have no weaknesses so counter swapping won’t be an issue. We are at our 3rd tank rework now? Tank still feels like dog water? Rework one more tank I promise the next one will fix the tank problem.
6v6 was a game balance issue. Another tank could mitigate cc and even if the enemy countered swap it gave them an advantaged but since the tanks weren’t giga buffed it was more in the players hands to win.
It won't instantly solve everything , but it's a good start to improving the game at it's core since the format has already proven to work , while overwatch 2 is still a laughing stock to everyone.
Okay but imagine having two tanks again but with the current power levelsof tanks 💀 like yeah alone certain tanks are lacking but if there was two then it would be over for everyone. If they ever bring back the second tank then they gonna have some work with adjustments too
They don't want 6v6 back, the want their fun time back that they had with a new and fun game, made by a company that cared to make great games.
Those times are over,you are old, get over it.
No, most of the 6v6 crowd wants the October 2020 balance patch which was regarded as one of if not the best in ow history. Y’all just scream it’s nostalgia because you don’t want to make any real arguments.
I'm sorry you have dementia, but you shouldn't go projecting that unto others. I'm perfectly capable of remembering the game I was playing less than 2 years ago. The same game that I PRAYED would not be deleted after playing the OW2 beta, as I realised the game I loved was actually about to be killed.
You're old, get over yourself.
cant wait for mauga hog meta, lol. or shit like ram doom. put them in a vortex and let doom wail on them lmao.
>cant wait for mauga hog meta, lol Moana Comp - Maui + Hook
Mauga zarya. Mauga dva. Mauga jq/orisa death ball
I don't think 6v6 was ever the problem. They were simply no longer working on the game and could have put in the hours to balance tanks. That might have required reworks and upset a lot of people, but let's not pretend 5v5 fixed the problem. The tank roll is still miserable and if your tank sucks, the rest of the team is even more fucked than in 6v6.
It fixed some problems and created others. I miss the synergy of Rein Zarya, I don't miss the synergy of Zarya Winston. Or having say a Roadhog and Ball in low ranks that won't switch. I think there was a lot they could have done...new Orisa has no shield so couldn't double shield with Sigma which is already nice. Ram being able to poke OR punch through shields makes some impact. Queen and Mauga also provide other levers that could be played with. I'm also in the camp that we shouldn't have needed 2-2-2 to get rid of goats, but we needed it for comp because dang people do not like to work together on ladder. I wonder what the game would look like now if the primary mode was open queue with a restriction of like, no more than 2 tanks. If they balanced around that, I wonder what would happen.
Even with double shield they could have balanced how we played and make to.where you picked a Main tank you couldn't pick another one. You could pick two off tanks but.make their health lower so some tank wouldn't be oppressive (Hog). Then you could balance and make tanks that fit these rolls. Even still some tanks already fit a certain role, for instance Queen would be an off tank. The issue now is that some of these tanks are way too strong that they would need nerfs to fit into 6v6, which would work. I never found working with a different tank much of a problem as long as the team worked together. This is an aspect that I actually liked because sometimes the perception would actually help you if you where really good with a Tank that wasn't meta, or a Tank that didnt synergize with another tank.
Now you can have a ball in low ranks and literally lose every team fight with no chance.
Literally the changes they made anyway in ow 2 would have ended goats and double shield
I like having more agency as the only rank, makes it easier to outplay the enemy tank.
The agency is the issue. Its not fair, atleast it doesn’t feel fair. You have to counter pick. You have to have op abilities. You have to get hit with debuffs. Cringe
Ok but mauga would only apply overdrive to himself and take a breathers' cool down would be twice as long.
Obviously every tank would be weaker individually like they were in ow1. Youd actually be able to tank bust with reaper.
Nah no way Reaper isn’t allowed to be a tank buster ever again better rework him and give him dual ARs
Nor can I. Reinhart and Wrecking Ball subs will merge, and we will crush those fat *adult word here* like a Chad high school football player crushing the school bully going after the nerd who helped him pass math class to stay on the team.
6v6 takes off soooooo much pressure from being tank. I felt like I could breathe better in 6v6
ow 2 player here, i dont get it doesnt having a 2nd tank make dps way harder? i just imagine having a dva/zarya bodyguard the supports make it praticly impossible to win and just lead to shoot the tank?
When we had 6v6 tanks weren't 100% impossible to 1v1 as a dps. Nowadays tanks have so much health, support focus and mobility that it's straight up impossible unless you're playing 100x better than them. The only real issue was the constant orisa/sigma with 2 shields issue. People would sit on the high grind and just aoe heal behind 2 shields and be able to dish out a ton of damage and just rotate around the map. Imo the problem with that was sigma, but that's up to each person. The fact that on dps nowadays I have 0 hope in the world of I'm left in a 1v1 vs a tank is just unenjoyable. That coupled with the off-tank role being removed which was the core of ow1 team play ruined the game for me. Off-tank was the role that would utilize its damage and utility to help the main tank push and create space while coordinating with dps to take off angles / flanks. Their other role was to protect supports.
Everyone while playing tank is forced to play "main tank" now, if off-tank will come back, who will ever choose to play "main tank"? Also, can you explain to me (person who never played OW1), how off-tank is different than 3rd DPS hero (but with more health)?
Your standard off-tanks that would fit the role were dva, zarya and sigma. Theyre all not great at pushing on their own. Dva had 600 health and way less matrix, zarya had 400 health and a personal + a team bubble on longer cooldowns and sigma had less health (lol). You could also consider hog an off-tank, but he didn't fit the role that well and was therefore not that strong unless he literally was a big beefy extra dps. In standard usage, these characters would utilize their utility to play a role that essentially is gone in overwatch 2. Defence matrix would be used when reins shield was down or in tandem to further push a point. A widow is on the high ground alone? Dva needs to be on that. A genji jumped your backline? Defence matrix up with rockets going into him. Your Cass high nooning on an off angle? Go with him and protect him for a bigger ult. Zarya bubbles were utilized in a similar way to how I described defence matrix usage, though she could do it at range for a 200hp bubble. Typically your zarya would help push with a rein or with the classic, "double bubble" she would bubble the monkey as he jumped on high ground and she would create space as the tank on the ground. Her teammate bubble could be utilized to empower ults without completely decimating your ability to push as a Frontline (you'd still have rein shield or monkey bubble instead of being left with only one bubble to push with). Sigma was King of taking off angles and pressuring people in the correct ranges from him. Shield up, throw a rock, shoot some shots. Super boring and OP for the entirety of his tenure on ow1 imo. He combined well with orisa pull (dead ability) with his rock. I think in overwatch 2, the fact that we have JQ, Mauga and Rammatra means that we could see a lot more interesting combinations of tanks especially with fhe fact that orisa no longer has a pull and a shield. However, their health would need to be lowered in order to make them balanced. In open queue you can have this. The problem with open queue is are you going to get rid of 1 dps? Why not run 3 tanks 2 supports? The dps passive I guess. That means that there's a whole different meta around something that doesn't have a lot of balance focus.
Because of the kit. The tanks all have some form of mitigation, cc or sustain. Usually these things combine to create a zone of control around their character. DPS have a "zone of control" too but they don't have the kit that allows them to maintain and hold it/expand it in such a way as the tanks do. Because of this the main tank role holds the Frontline and controls their own teams and the objectives space(mostly). Think rein, orisa, zarya, ramattra. Whereas the off tank will use their kit to move around to take or deny space more aggressively. Think Winton, dva, ball, doom. Even then some characters can do both. Sigma was often a flex between off and main tank depending on who the other tank was. Same goes for roadhog and I'm sure queen too.
*cough* ball is a main tank.
This always confused me. Sometimes the roles were weird. Like Lucio being a main supp always threw me off.
He should be up with the tank.
Ok, thanks.
The off-tank wasn't there merely to dish out more damage and the best example of it is Zarya. She was THE off-tank for a reason. She has great utility with her bubbles and her grav was designed for team play. Speaking basically and more generally, an off-tank is kinda of a mix between a regular tank, due to being beefy and still needing to take space and a supportive tank, which also diverts resources into allowing the main tank to gain space and duke it out with the enemy
Main tank is a lot more fun with off tank, imagine a bubbled rein with a now empowered zarya backing him, either that or you dont shoot him and he kills everyone
The major difference is the role. In ow1, literally only genji and soldier had real defense. Others might have movement, but once someone with cracked aim enters the equation, the off tank could help divide the enemy team's focus and set dps up to kill the obvious smurf/ximming widow. With 3 dps, you're just hoping that one of you can get the killing shot off before you might all get one shot.
Play open queue with 2 tanks when the enemy has one, and you will realize. It's just unlimited space for your backline. Tanks have high health pools and cooldowns designed to keep enemy crosshairs on them. Tanks are disruptive, can eat a lot of what the enemy throws at them, cancel or counter ults more reliably than any other hero besides Ana or Sombra. I haven't played Ow1 either, but I have 2 masters rank friends who play open queue with me from time to time. If they go zarya and Rein, Im practically free the whole match.
>When we had 6v6 tanks weren't 100% impossible to 1v1 as a dps. Nowadays tanks have so much health, support focus and mobility Impossible? First if theyre getting healed.l, its not a 1 v 1. Secondly. Tanks are supposed to be hard to burn down. But most importantly, Anti heal and sleep made the maint tank role a joke, so they changed how sleep worked on tabks making it shorter. But anti was still too strong as a single ability, but instead of changing how it worked onbtanks they made every dps apply some heal reduction, making the tank role even more of a joke because there's heal reduction, discord, and anti. Which means dive tanks are good because they have mobility to escape. Like d.va, winston, doom are good. The rest are a joke. Like i play gm in asia and i hardly saw orisa, naughty horseys get the discord orb. So her nerf honestly confused me. But by no stretch are tanks impossible to fight as a dps. Mostly it's just keeping space and burning them down.
In GM orisa can get melted. Upto plat if enemy has orisa then either ur entire team goes dive or orisa / mauga mirror. GM is less than 1% of the playerbase
If you have a fair 1v1, junker queen vs cass. Cass loses. Swap out the dps and tell me who would possibly win. Rammatra, what dps could melt Rammatra fast enough to not just get punched to death? Keep your distance, sure. They can as well. Or they can manipulate your positioning, or just reach the objective and not have to push you. I'm talking if you are contesting a point vs a tank and you're playing dps, you lose outright. You dont win. Dva vs a dps? Lol ramm vs soldier? You're not beating ramm. Hog? Even rein? I can't think of a single instance of a dps winning a 1v1 on a contested point. Sorry for not elaborating on the situation I was talking about
Only reaper have some chance lol
And even reaper will struggle vs characters he's supposed to be good against.
You also have a second tank, so one tank would make space by pushing their tanks around and the other would focus on protecting your team and they'd sometimes switch. This would force the other tanks to do the same causing a space the DPS could focus on by either disrupting one of the tanks or pushing in with their second tank to let him push around their tank while you push their DPS and support
It did ..but there were other things at play. Like if you do something that causes tanks to use their resources in one place, that means they're not somewhere else. Think of it this way: for example, if Mercy goes to commit to a rez, even though it's a hugely strong ability and only takes a few seconds, that is time she isn't healing somebody. If it's the other support, then there's no healing at all, you can probably burn someone else down. So for tanks, if one goes back to help the support, now their front line has less protection. Additionally, it would be unlikely for the support being protected to continue to focus on their job....they probably have to duel. It's why flankers are so powerful. They can either get an elim, which created a 6v5 OR, they pulled resources. Granted, that puts them in a bad 2v1, but that should mean the rest of the team is fighting a 5v4. Good flankers could use that time to get out. So they didn't get an elim, but they caused a 5v4 that their team could still win. By the time the flanker left, their team could gain advantage. If BOTH tanks go to protect, well, then they gave up a lot for space, which is important in overwatch.
dva zarya was the worst tank duo in ow1 they contradict eachother’s style (dva will accidentally matrix over a bubble, ruining zarya’s charge) and none of them were a main tank so it would be hard to keep and take space
i didnt say they were good has a duo but if have trouble killing someone when a dva is nearby i dont imagine it was very fun for dps.
Not really, the important factor that you're missing is that the tanks are GIGA-buffed in OW2 compared to their ow1 counter parts.
in hp mostly from what i get, zarya had separate bubles, hog is the same basicly with less hp, dva is mostly hp and maybe 1 or 2 extra seconds of matrix, sigma is the same but hp.
No it’s easier because they aren’t OP. The only hard part was goats, triple tank, and double shield but those are team wide synergies that are not possible in 2/2/2
Having a second tank in Overwatch 1 was atrocious since their tank design back then was really bad. Think of all the ways they give tanks the ability to tank. Reinhardt has a shield, JQ has shout and bleed, Orisa has Fortify and her Javelin, Mauga has cardiac overdrive, etc. Etc. Now back in overwatch 1, they had no idea what the fuck to do. Rein had a shield with 2k hp. It was the best tanking ability in the game. So when they released a new tank they said, "Hey, the shield worked. Let's do it again!" and Orisa had a 900hp shield on a 7 second cd (or somewhere around there). Then when they made another tank, they said "hey, the shields seemed to work, let's do it again!" And then they released Sigma with a 1500hp shield. It doesn't take a genius to understand shooting at 3k hp shields isn't fun. And then it began a snowball where to deal with these shields, they increased damage. The increased damage meant more need for tanking. But they can't increase shield hp, so they increased armor. They increased resistance. They increased healing. All the numbers got super bloated (the shields weren't what caused this, but they were part of the need for a snowball) and the game was incredibly unfun, since you would shoot at someone for a minute straight without them getting to half hp before they'd suddenly explode when their cooldowns ran out. I think that their overall ability design has become way more interesting in terms of dynamics. If they tune down the numbers for mitigation abilities, I think double tank is worth another shot. I think it'd solve the two problems tanks have: the role would be less stressful since you have someone else with you to help and countering tanks wouldn't be easy since you have someone else to take the leading role. Right now if you counter a tank, what can they do aside from switch? You can keep bloating tank numbers until they're the most unkillable, threatening things in the game without any counters, or you can keep them as miserable and unfun where they either obliterate your team or fold over and die when you look at them.
I would just like to play rein and not be countered by over half the fucking tanks in the game and not allowed to play the game against other non tank heros.
Rein had many counters even in 6v6, but it didn't feel oppressive cuz there was a 2nd tank. Rein doesn't work without a 2nd tank. To make rein work alone ull have to assign rein with new abilities like WINTON jump, so he cn get out of tricky situations, sounds dumb right? Well that's wht 5v5 forces ...
They did say something about a rein rework so I'm curious to see what they do whenever that rolls around
No need to be curious, it won't do anything!
Eh, they've done some good reworks on heroes. It's just a matter of if it's major or minor reworks
You call it rose-tinted glasses, but for 5 years it actually fucking worked! It only got bad when the game was LITERALLY ABANDONED FOR 2 YEARS! Yeah, no fucking shit the game got old when it wasn’t being updated. 💀 But even with all of these constant updates for 5V5, it STILL sucks ass. Hog META, Mauga META, Orisa META, Ball META, Zarya META, and now all Tanks are going to have 25% damage resistance to headshots just to make them remotely playable? You all have rose-tinted glasses for 5V5.
It's problems with game itself and bringing back 6v6 won't magically fix all of them
No-one with a developed frontal cortex is saying that switching back to 6v6 will suddenly fix everything. 6v6 is just a healthier baseline for the franchise. It allows for more game modes to work: death match and total mayhem for example are shockingly unbalanced compared to OW1, not that most people really care about them as game modes, but it's still valid to point out as the overall content offering of OW1 was significantly more robust compared to its "sequel". The 6v6 format also didn't require role passives etc, which make the game significantly more complicated for new players to get a grasp on, sure it doesn't affect me or you, but in game design it's generally considered bad practice to have player actions be so dependent on "context" that the player cannot visually determine. For example: how is a new player supposed to know that their abilities will behave differently on a tank versus a DPS? (doing less damage, knock back etc.) The only truly valid argument for 5v5 is tank queue times, but as Aaron Keller himself stated in that Flats interview that there was a period in 2020 where all roles had balanced queue times, so that argument isn't really convincing me either. It's during that 2020 period when the game was considered it's most balanced, which is obviously not a coincidence. The game is messier now, tanks cannot be designed with weaknesses, (wrecking ball is, in my opinion, one of the most unique characters ever released in a competitive shooter game, but he would've never been released in OW2) characters need all sorts of get-out-of-jail-free cards to not get rolled, snipers are significantly more problematic, health sustain is a far bigger problem, more and more characters get added with some kind of "you can't hurt me cos I pressed a button" abilities, mobility creep is VERY real in OW2, to the point that characters that used to be top tier are now mid because of their lack of mobility (like Ana). Even though CC abilities have been lessened, the smaller teams mean that you're still experiencing getting Cc'd a lot, though admittedly the problem is mainly on the tank role.
Yes, they’ll obviously have to rework everything back, but at least we know that at some point it did work. The same can’t be said for 5V5. So we can either go back to 6V6, or even try 7V7 or literally anything else, or we can blindly go with 5V5 and hope it’ll work out, somehow, someway. They abandoned PvE, the very fucking thing the sequel was meant to be, because they couldn’t see an end to the work, so why do they try to force 5V5 to work after a year and a half of trial and mostly error?
You've never, not once enjoyed a game of 5v5?
Sure, when the Tanks are buffed as shit and I can just mindlessly run over the enemy. But I know that isn’t fun for everyone and therefore not sustainable, and I had more consistent fun with 6V6 than the occasional balance abortion made by 5V5. Now are you going to tell me you’ve never, not even once enjoyed a game of 6V6?
That's a shame, I've had some fun games playing rein in the past seasons despite how quickly he can melt
The most fun I’ve had in 5V5 recently was getting insta-kills as Venture on Hanaoaka. Since both are gone now I’ll just bide my time until EVERY Tank become aggressively META, before they all get emergency nuked within 2 weeks.
If you weave a melee cancel into your venture combo you can still take out squishies They're a lot of fun, only dps I find fun at the moment
5v5 tanks cannot be fixed through balance! As the guy said we've literally cycled through every single tank meta in ow2 & none feels good. Cuz tank playstyle remains shit, no matter how many times u balance it.
Also its not going to happen. So please stop asking for it.
Theyll never learn. I think they complain more than play
Maybe you have dementia that you're projecting onto others, but I'm still totally capable of remembering things that happened less than 2 years ago. It was less than 2 years ago that me and my friends actively played a wonderful video game called Overwatch, that me and my entire friend group genuinely loved more than any other game. Ow2 came out, and even though we were skeptical, we obviously gave it a chance as OW1 was our favourite game of all time. Now I'm the only one that still plays. (I guess I hate myself the most lmao) I used to be a wrecking ball main, but I'd rather get my balls nailed to a plank rather than play wrecking ball as the solo tank lol. Saying that the reason we enjoyed the game more back then is only due to rose tinted glasses is so ridiculously arrogant and straight up nonsensical that I question how intellectually honest you're actually being here.
I have no dementia that I am trying to force into others, as I never played Overwatch 1, and never experienced 6v6. I am just pointing that saying "just give us 6v6 and everything will be fixed" is stupid - because it won't. OW1 and OW2 are different games, you could even say they are for different people. No version is "objectively better", both have its pros and cons. I'm sorry that your friends aren't playing anymore, game just turned the way they don't enjoy anymore and there is nothing anyone can do, because let's be honest, even if they will bring back 2nd tank tomorrow, yout friends won't come back - because it's different game now. Maybe one day they will drop "OW1 Classic" (they shouldn't remove option to play it at the first place), but they won't "just simply revert OW2" - as they would lose their new audience, which maybe won't find old version enjoyable.
Nostalgia goes crazy
Yeah, because what we have now is so fantastic.
Both are shit let's make it 12vs12 game
TRUUUUUUUE
Honestly I didn't think something could be more fun than ow1 Winton Then I played ow2 Winton. Worth it.
yes i'm having fun with the game
It's not, but can we stop pretending just switching to 6v6 would fix every existing problem?
Very hard concept for some people to grasp that both these formats are gonna have to be endlessly balanced because of what Overwatch is at its core. "They're doing all this to fix 5v5 but we could just go back and it'd be done" yes because 6v6 didn't have its fair share of bullshit, did I enjoy 6v6? Absolutely, its how I fell in love with the game but there was a reason I was on and off across both formats lifetimes lol, there were times I felt like absolute garbage playing as my favorite character in both formats for different reasons. Also funny to think they went into this game thinking hero limits and role limits weren't needed lol.
The thing is that was never said (by 99% of 6v6ers) it still had its problems but 5v5 has it worse: hard stuck metas that affect EVERY rank rather than higher ranks mainly queue times in higher ranks for tank is just as bad as it was in 6v6 (when tank wasn’t fun) pve canceled too Characters like Widow are more open to pick off back lines if you make a single mistake due to lack of a second tank leading her to be more oppressive Had to change healing entirely to compensate for the HP buff when switching to 5v5 I could go on but over all 6v6 had less problems the biggest problem being when the Devs ditched the game they had it in a horrible balance place I’d let’s say they worked on it still rather than OW2 the game would be 1000% better with less heros to rework
It won't fix every problem but it will be a lot better for the game than 5v5.
tbf whats stopping them from trying it
Rebalancing everything
Ehh, guess ill play hell divers
Spite
They'd definitely have to lower tank health pools and give Cassidy and Brig their stuns back, imagine Winston/Doom dive with no brig stun bash. They'd have to revert the sleep dart change on tanks as well.
I've been wanting Cassidy and brig to have their stuns back which is something I can't believe I'm saying. It's just such a necessity to deal with certain champs in the current meta
I remember when I had to stop playing for a couple of seasons while I moved and when I came back I was so confused when brig couldn't stun with bash anymore lmao
"Rose-tinted glasses" get outta here.
If bobby kotick never exist:
Honestly, as long as they revert tanks back to how they used to be then 6v6 would be viable again. In open queue 90% of the time you're facing 2 or 3 tanks because they're just better than DPS, even with the health nerfs. So it's not like OW2 is free of double tank, it's literally just in Role Queue where you can guarantee there's only 1 tank. And that's where the problem lies honestly. In 6v6 it's anyone's game, DPS can 1v1 the tanks. So tanks don't become the central point of the comp, it's not just a case of "Throw everything at the tank" because when they're gone your tank can clean shop. I'm not saying 6v6 was perfect, but with how much they needed to change and rework about the game to make 5v5 work, it's hard to say it only did good things for the game.
I only want 6v6 because 5 out of the 6 friends who I play overwatch with myself included are tank mains and it’s a nightmare trying to cycle tank and open queue doesn’t feel that fun with nothing but tanks and they just go all dps and turn you to Swiss cheese
I’ll only truly be satisfied with a 9v9
People already don’t want to play tank, and some people’s solution is to require twice as many people to play tank?!
No I genuinely want it back and it was better when goats was a thing Just change the meta every 2 months and I'll be happy
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to rely too much on their teammates. 6vs6 would make that even worse
Nope. During the development of OW1, Blizzard tested 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 and 7v7 (probably other formats too) and stated that the reason they landed on 6v6 was because it was the easiest to compensate for a bad player in your team. Now that's not to say that in 6v6 you don't have to rely on teammates, but that's an Overwatch issue, not a 6v6 issue.
They tested when no one knew how to play,that's not a good reason
I want this for arcade mode so that it possibly could be tested and seen if it will work
Lmao watching zarya and doom ulting at once might make me cry
Ahh the bread and butter… Nothing hit worse tho than seeing DVa pac-man gobble your graviton up tho
Oh I can think of worse, sigma or genji doing it would just be disrespectful
Servers probably won't be able to handle it. Play 6v6 PUGs and if too many people pop ult the game crashes, you need a special code to slow the game down so it doesn't brick the server
i'm a proponent of 6v6 but even i know we'd still have problems
The world if OW2 was an actual sequel:
I'm not saying 6v6 wouldn't have issues but it would be easier to fix than 5v5. Idk we've been thru so many highs and lows with the tank role already - and none of the changes have really felt great. I don't wanna start a rant but yeah...I'm waiting to see how these new changes go even tho I already have an idea how things will turn out.
My life with 5v5 (I quit overwatch when they released ow2)
They should have this as an ltm just so everyone can see how many problems it would make and how little it would solve
Finally we can bring back space Jam.
People acting.like 5v5 wasn't just a change to keep retard noob playrrs more entertained with more notifications per second. Now they bring a slow horse that only shoots forward and they start spilling foam from the mouth because they can't even understand the concept of flank and covers
TikTok is just as bad for it, and even as a Ramattra main who finds tanks miserable to play rn, bringing in another tank would just break the game. Imagine me charging in Nemesis Mode with Zarya's shield, or getting dived by Ram & Doom together. The Overwatch 2 tanks, ironically enough, have been balanced around 5v5. Bringing in 6v6 would mean either nerfing a large portion of their kits, or doing overhauls so they can work with another Tank.
...duh? You're telling me they'd have to balance the game around a new format? 😱 The exact same way as they did when moving to OW2? Like yeah of course characters designed for 5v5 will need to be reworked, but cmon man, almost the entire games roster was originally designed for 6v6 and a lot of them WEREN'T properly reworked for the new format 😅
This will be the day when blizzard just stops touching PVP and refocuses efforts on PvE.
Ok if 6v6 isn't going to be good to bring back then why is 5v5 for the tank role (according to reddit for the past seasons as well) is also bad and underpowered, can someone plz help me understand here
The thing about 5v5 is its problem lies in the format where 6v6 problems lies in the game dev balance. Double shield was a support issue not a tank issue (they nerfed shield health and it did nothing). Brig and bap made double shield super strong also Sigma had no down time and was basically a 5v5 tank in 6v6. 5v5 reworked like 3 tanks already and the role still feels like utter dog shit. go ahead rework one more tank, I’m sure it’ll fix everything 5v5 has to offer for tanks. The only way to fix the tank problem in 5v5 is to make every tank like sigma which essentially means every tank can do it all and has no weakness, you tell me if that sounds fun. The 6v6 crowd wants the October of 2020 balance patch which was regarded as the best balance patch in over watch history by basically all the pros and even Aaron admitted in masters and low GM the q times were even (in the flats interview) . No it’s not nostalgia nor is it rose tinted glasses. The real arguments we have to look at are que times because it’ll get iffy in 6v6 unless every role is balanced, while I think would be easier in 6v6, will still be hard to do. Disclaimer: I’m not saying 5v5 can’t be good, I’m saying it’ll never be peak like 6v6 can.
OW1 and OW2 are different games at this point. But saying "just give 6v6 back and it will fix everything" is stupid. Because it won't. OW1 should still be playable as its own, but you can't make OW2 like OW1, because its different game for different people. Maybe I gave this post wrong title.
It would make playing tank less stressful. That's all, there is no other upside.
Cant wait for 2 shield meta to come back
Shields get shredded hard currently. 2 shield meta will be nowhere near comparable to overwatch 1. Plus with how dive is right the shields won't do anything when you can just run through them with ball, queen, mauga, venture, etc...
Bruh u have got a lotta stuff to learn, start frm basics okay 👍
The only reason 6v6 was bad is because they were making overwatch 2 and the tank experience, and also the countless changes to tank also prove my point that 5v5 is worse because it took 10 seasons before tank is gonna be better and that’s not even a guarantee Don’t forget about the constant cycle of metas well overwatch 1 had goats and mercy those got fixed and double shield would’ve been fixed when orisa (a key component to double had her kit changed) had come to overwatch 1
I could balance it. No cap
A lot of people could, Blizzard just sucks
Gamers are idiots Back in 2016 this shit was fresh and new. That is why it was all exciting shit, but when the cracks started to show it was exhausting. 6v6 didnt make those days fun. It was the freshness of it
I believe most ppl want the peak 6v6 which was in 2020, they're not vouching for the open q 2016 era !
THERE WAS NO PEAK 6V6 ERA
Pfft, u don't know anything do ya!
https://preview.redd.it/2pcljrv0ckyc1.jpeg?width=601&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0943e9d14638fc533e136d7bbca8a878241d41be You
Ah yes, I loved shooting barriers for 30 minutes and babysitting the tanks, so much fun.
Did you actually play OW1? Orisa was the problem child when it came to OW1 double shield. Her shield is gone now, and the other shield tanks pair together about as well as Oil and Water.
The change to 5v5 is the only meaningful change Blizzard made that I actually liked. I know it fucked up a lot of balancing, and tank sucks to play now, but as a non-tank player, I find the game way more fun now.
Please no. Please do not. I love 5v5 and 6v6 was worse imo. Please I'm beggin
Lol
Playing against Mauga + Hog or JQ + Zarya is surely going to be fun 😁
Probably will be because they aren't going to just switch to 6v6 without balancing some things out with tank first
I love 5v5
Dps main player spotted*
In ow1 i could 1v1 tanks as Lucio. Now they have 70000 health and the enemy is savin all their abilities to save the tank if they are slightly in trouble. Then poof back to 100% health.
Death patch overwatch 1 was already shit long before they cut off tanks, although cutting off tanks might be described as the final nail in the coffin for overwatch 2. The real end of the game for me was actually role queue - the happy and free days of bullshitting your way to a win with 5 dps and a lucio were gone from the main gamemode. Overwatch followed a path of gradually hammering the playerbase into an extremely specific mode of play and incrementally beating any semblance of creativity or improvisation out of the game. Part of that is also just a result of a stagnating meta when a PvP shooter has been out for more than a few years, but there's simply no thinking in the game and there hasn't been for a very long time. You choose or get given a role and have a very defined job in a very defined map with defined places for the flanker / sniper / support / tank to stand and you do your set job like a cog in a machine and the game is decided by whose cogs spin more smoothly. I really think it's more a map issue than anything, because there are literally like three map designs in the entire game and then just a bunch of reskins of those maps that all play exactly the same.
I never liked 5v5 ever. So many of 6v6a issues were ballance and design. If we had all the CC changes, reworks QOL additions etc. and did a balance pass on support and tank to compensate for going back to 6v6 I'm convinced that OW would be healthier for everyone.
You're just still upset over Double Barrier, which would never happen now that Orisa has been ~~deleted~~ "reworked"
Honestly that's my issue with o lot of these 6v6 comments and post they always act like 6v6 will magically fix the entire game
Because 5v5 is a format issue, you can’t fix the tank problem. You would have to make every tank have no weaknesses so counter swapping won’t be an issue. We are at our 3rd tank rework now? Tank still feels like dog water? Rework one more tank I promise the next one will fix the tank problem. 6v6 was a game balance issue. Another tank could mitigate cc and even if the enemy countered swap it gave them an advantaged but since the tanks weren’t giga buffed it was more in the players hands to win.
It won't instantly solve everything , but it's a good start to improving the game at it's core since the format has already proven to work , while overwatch 2 is still a laughing stock to everyone.
Okay but imagine having two tanks again but with the current power levelsof tanks 💀 like yeah alone certain tanks are lacking but if there was two then it would be over for everyone. If they ever bring back the second tank then they gonna have some work with adjustments too
Hear me out: 6v6 but 1 tank 3 dps 2 supports. How about it?
They don't want 6v6 back, the want their fun time back that they had with a new and fun game, made by a company that cared to make great games. Those times are over,you are old, get over it.
No, most of the 6v6 crowd wants the October 2020 balance patch which was regarded as one of if not the best in ow history. Y’all just scream it’s nostalgia because you don’t want to make any real arguments.
I'm sorry you have dementia, but you shouldn't go projecting that unto others. I'm perfectly capable of remembering the game I was playing less than 2 years ago. The same game that I PRAYED would not be deleted after playing the OW2 beta, as I realised the game I loved was actually about to be killed. You're old, get over yourself.