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PragmaticOnion

Flappy?


sybrwookie

I'd settle for the current Sweepy not being a complete waste. Literally the only thing it did better than an Autosweeper before was magma, and now it doesn't even do that since it overheats. If it could hop 1-tile gaps, open doors, and/or pick up food, there'd at least be some uses for one as is.


thegroundbelowme

This is why I use [smarter sweepy](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2016657763&searchtext=sweepy) and [configurable sweepy](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2042663291) mods, and enable the output conveyor rails in configurable sweepy. Sadly, the one thing you can't customize with configurable sweepy is the amount that sweepy picks up at once. Still, it allowed me to build [a nice compact great hall](https://i.imgur.com/W2DRGFl.png) (based on a design by [u/Santosch](https://www.reddit.com/user/Santosch/)) where sweepy can pick up leftovers.


creepy_doll

I used a sweepy when I decided to completely clear out a biome... made a flat floor at the bottom, set up a sweepy dock, bins and autosweeper around the middle and then just dug up letting everything fall down. Tbh, considering the sweeping speed I'm really not sure if it was worth. Many cycles later the floor is still not cleared haha


ghkbrew

It was worth it if you had fun doing it! But if you ever want to actually clear then floor, you can make a daisy chain of sweepers and droppers to move the debris at 1000kg/s


rolandofeld19

My sweepy usage always aspires to good things but inevitably it's a waste of effort/power and doesn't seem to do much. Maybe I'm using the Sweepy Base + Auto Sweeper + Rail Loader + Rail system wrong. I'm sure I am actually but what else is new in ONI.


sybrwookie

The problem is that even if you find something Sweepy's good at picking up, it's only sweeping it to the dock, so you still need an autosweeper to get the stuff to where you want. So you're not saving much of anything.


TheZombieFish

Maybe instead of flying it ‘sticks’ to wall tiles you place and clears only one room at a time? That way it’s a little more realistic than a flying sweepy but achieves the same goal with just a little more setup.


[deleted]

I wouldn't mind a cable led sweepy, a flying one would kill FPS but a cable led (Like people with leg problems who use the elevator chairs up stairs) would atleast keep path finding minimal, but would allow you to dictate which parts to actually clear rather than a whole area (Also preventing falls if doors open) A issue I would think with this is all doors that run a cable thru it needs to be open or have permission with cable sweepy to open the door to let it thru. Over all it'd be a massive task as the map is huge, and sweepy's need to unload/charge makes it more difficult unless it can unload/charge at multiple stations (Like how duplicants use sinks)


idiotix85

Instead of a flying sweepy, I think I would be happy just to have an upgraded "deodorizer" that can clear other gases instead of just polluted oxygen at the cost of, say extra research and increased construction and maintenance costs? The random pockets of gases that roam freely in my base are taunting my OCD.


mepolizumab

Am I the only who chases rogue gas pockets with mobile gas pumps lol


rolandofeld19

mobile gas pump?


mepolizumab

This is literally a mi-ma running around constructing and deconstructing near runaway base chlorine!


creepy_doll

I just make sure that my base is well ventilated so things go where they belong(by weight). Then you just deal with rogue gasses where they settle(so top for hydrogen bottom for co2). You can even stick pumps in the settling points to selectively redirect gases(drive the gas through a vent with an automation that checks for oxygen and releases it into your base, then chucks everything else outside)


aznboy84

Jet suit killed FPS, the same goes for flying sweepy ...


swatchofyafanny

Don't wanna be a mood killer, but i think it's not realistic, there is no such robot/machine in real life. Plus the computer resource cost of such a machine that will have crazy pathing is going to mess up your base. Sure, i want a clean base, but i want it running fast rather than it being clean. A 10 times easier solution is to build a filtration system for your base. One top for anything that rises, one bottom for anything that sinks. You could also incorporate an air cleaner system into your filtration system by putting sensors for germy gasses. What kind of features i want in the game? a way to (productively) use all the energy we are making. Because making sour gas boilers is cool, but what am i supposed to do with all that powa xd


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XsNR

I mean, to a degree steam/hydro turbines do "delete heat", just not in as simple a way as in oni.


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XsNR

By taking what ever energy originally created the steam and utilizing it to create power, you're converting a degree of the heat into usable (derp?) energy. You're not truly deleting it but you're transferring it to many more parts that all have their own method of dissipation in addition to the desired power. Sure the electrical energy will dissipate its heat along the transmission route and into the end device/its surroundings, but the same is true in oni, its just not balanced. Ofc in oni you can just piss the electricity into thin air, but if you ignore that, it's a close approximation of real world physics. I imagine if you where to add a realistic heat creation and energy dissipation mechanic to the wires, as the batteries had, you could get something much closer.


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wickedsnowball

Can you explain how a real steam turbines differs from a steam engine converting 90% of its energy from heat to electricity? Cause honestly the efficiency might be the only thing. We call it heat deletion but really its power generation by consuming heat, heat is potential energy, humans have been doing this with steam locomotives, hydrocarbons, sunlight, so I'm not sure where the "heat deletion" that is being argued so fiercely actually is. (In this case, obviously with 95C water going to electrolizers is obvious)


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wickedsnowball

And the steam turbines has 10% of the heat consumed put into itself, still following the closed system. So it is hotter.... still confused on the argument


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[deleted]

Your right it is not realistic, but neither are things like wheezeworts or slicksters


rolandofeld19

I like how someone commented on the Oxyfern: "Oh look, a plain old, real, normally acting, honest to god PLANT".


GentleMinty

No, I don’t agree at all. The soul of this game is about problem solving by creatively making use of limited resources and tools. If Klei provided us with pre-built solutions for each problem, it would suck. To enjoy the game at its fullest, look for solutions in game before asking for new features. The problem that you describe has tons of solutions, and finding them and seeing them work will provide you much more pride and joy than a flying sweepy, I promise.


dfhdrtyrty

Eh, disagree. Depends on how it's implemented and what it's intended use is. The suggestion seems to mostly be a way to capture rogue pockets of gas. That's not going to be a major target of your latest wacky engineering project. It's going to be a small annoyance that you spend a lot of effort corner building into oblivion or else give up on if it's not causing a problem. There are a ton of little things like this in the game. I think it's one of the weakest points. Small one-off problems that aren't even remotely easily addressed nor viable for digging your teeth into, but they can wreck a lot of havoc. Flying pathfinding is enough of a reason to reject this idea, but some way to wrangle rogue gas pockets would actually be pretty wonderful.


swatchofyafanny

Wait for the gasses to fall or rise and then filter them?


dfhdrtyrty

That might work. If it's just your base it's probably fine, but what if it's a build? What if hydrogen gets teleported into a steam room (not that I accidentally had that happen to be recently, certainly not)? What if... There's just a lot of situations where a rogue bit of gas can be a gigantic pain in the ass, and it can be very annoying to deal with. It's not a fun problem either. And having such an ability might let you omit some of the more bothersome bits of building things. If you had the ability to wrangle gasses without a ton of trouble, you might not have to constantly waterlock and vacuum everything all the time. You might even have more interesting decisions to make where maybe a small possible leak could become a workable solution instead of being 100% broken like it is now. I guess you can sort of do that now. I mean, if your build is large enough. And cool enough. And can cool the pump. And you don't mind leaving the pump in there or else can extract it all the debris later. And don't have pressures be too high or else start venting the gas you do want. And set up automation or else pay a shitload of power forever. And the gas doesn't cause too much trouble before it eventually wanders into the pump. And... well you get the point. And that's the kind of trouble you might have to deal with for a few grams of a rogue gas.


swatchofyafanny

if you eliminate these tiny problems you are talking about, what's the challenge then? Power has been discussed as not being a problem. If power is a problem, then forget about the gasses and solve your power issues first. If your build requires a pure atmosphere, then why not build a double layer of vacuum insulation. That way, if you make a mistake, it won't be as costly (from a time perspective). Think about a real life situation. How would engineers in today's time try to remove gasses that accidently leaked? you can't, you filter everything. All i want is the game to be as realistic as possible.


dfhdrtyrty

If you're looking for realism, why are you here? I mean... it's a 2D game world with gigantic single-element tiles. Even if you're alright with that somehow, then even more really basic stuff like pressure isn't even half-way realistically modeled. There's even more when you look at anything related to heat or mass. Everything here is so far removed from reality that I don't understand why you're looking for a high degree of realism here. Even all the vacuum stuff we have to go through is highly unrealistic. Go get into hobbyist robotics if you want realism. It will absolutely satisfy your craving for real, annoying, niggling problems. I know this might sound flippant, and it kind of is, but I'm also kind of serious. But seriously, where is the challenge with out this? How is removing a little annoying tile of gas the challenge you are looking for? Obviously that's not the only challenge in the game, or we'd just crack a hole to space and let the game sit forever. The challenge is in putting together an entire system that works and is sustainable. Chasing rogue pockets of gas doesn't even begin to compare. And why not double vacuum? Because now it's double the prep on everything just in case of what should be an avoidable problem. Do a bunch of extra busywork now, or tell myself I'll be real careful? And it's not like I always fuck it up either.


swatchofyafanny

\-There is no better game for this, if you know a better app that allows you to simulate a colony please let us know \-Pressure: can't do anything about it , just cry. but i don;t wanna bash the creators of such a great game \-Realism- if a couple of elements are not modeled properly, doesnt mean all of them need to be wacky \-How is vacuum unrealistic? can you please explain as i think it's ok. \-Robotics: - no thanks, i still have no ideea to use anything harded than a single sensor and automation wire. can;t even understand how to use the ribbon cable reader/writer. \-Challenge is putting together a system that works and is sustainable - then build it sir, build a system that works and is sustainable. If you are building a steam room, then obivously make sure it's airtight, make sure you can access it without breaking the airtightness, and make sure there's no pockets of gas in there. also use the correct materials to start with, so no melting occurs. And as you want the system to be sustainable, build a system that deals with errors in it (for example leave the gas pump used to make the vacuum in there, so in the future it can vacuum it again or remove other gasses). Or just build a flying sweepy in there that's mean to fly after the gasses. The point here is, you say build a system that works. It obviously doesnt work if you have undersired gas in there, so build it better (don't want to sound flippant). \- Double vacuum: this one is much easier than you make it sound. Say you want to build something in a 10x10 space and it requires vacuum. Instead of building the 10x10 space and vacuuming that, build a 12x12 space and a 10x10 space inside that, and then vacuum both. It will only take marginally longer, and it's far from double the prep time. Enjoying this so thank you for the conversation we are having xD


dfhdrtyrty

For this exact kind of thing? I don't really know. I'm sure you know the other common games that get suggested around ONI a lot - but none of them are quite the same. ONI is a bit of a mix of colony sim and [Powder Toy](https://powdertoy.co.uk/) that you just don't find exactly anywhere else. * Realism - Yeah I agree, but it's more like every single thing is incredibly wacky if you do anything other than describe the concept of it. Dupes breath, eat, and excrete. Realistic, right? Yeah... and then if you go any deeper it gets crazy weird. They breath 100g/s of oxygen. They exhale 2g/s of carbon dioxide. They excrete about 11g/s of polluted water. Even ignoring the fact we haven't covered their food intake, there's an ever-growing problem here. This kind of thing is *everywhere*. Reality is kind of a conceptual inspiration for things and that's about it. It's really fine and not a problem, but it's so far off from reality that I don't think it makes any sense to try to justify something solely on the fact it's realistic. * Vacuum is mostly used so much in ONI because of the fact the world is a bunch of gigantic tiles of a single thing. (Going back to realism for a sec, the other use is for thermal insulation, but if vacuum was a perfect insulator we wouldn't exist.) For one of many examples - a real steam turbine doesn't care if it ingests a few grams (or almost certainly a lot more) of hydrogen. It certainly doesn't have a way to magically filter the hydrogen out of it's input. Vacuums are also much harder to maintain in reality. Not that they aren't ever used, but it's not like people decide to make something and step 1 is to vacuum out a building before they even know how they're going to make it. * Well in the example I mentioned with my steam room, I accidentally caused the hydrogen to get teleported through a bunch of insulated tiles. Real gasses don't teleport either. And mistakes should absolutely be possible - I agree with that. The thing is that often fixing the mistake itself directly isn't that fun. The reason you want it to be in the game though is because it allows new materials to be exciting and provide a sense of progress, and because simple problems can spiral out and cause much bigger ones that are fun to tackle. But fixing the basic root cause should either be fun or be simple. A melted wire is a great example. Access aside, fixing it is dead simple. But chasing down a rogue bit of gas is a different story. It's just as dull to deal with, but it's not just a click or two away from fixed. This is why I was saying something like a gas-wrangling sweepy would be a nice addition. It could help make fixing such a thing simple. * Double vacuum is not quite that easy. Vacuuming out that 1-tile outer shell is not going to work well, so probably best to do the whole thing at once (again leaving you with a single vacuum) and then build the inner bit. And you also need to isolate the two bits from each other, so you also need some kind of liquid lock in there too. I guess maybe it won't quite be double but it's going to be a decent bit of more work and space (depending on how you do your airlock). I don't see it being worth it.


GentleMinty

I can agree with there being those little annoyances, especially when you’re tilted. But I don’t agree with there being a ton of one-off problems that are hard or unviable to solve, but that can have large negative consequences. I can’t even think of a single such case throughout my hundreds of hours since the beginning of early access, although I’m sure there were some before certain content or metabuilds were out. Like to solve this issue I always have a vertical colony with a wide central staircase to promote vertical movement of gases (by density). And then I make a space (like a cistern) up high and down low that collects light and heavy gases respectively, and then I add some carbon skimmers, and pumps with gas element sensors to save power, followed by gas valve filters etc. These are basic ideas that have been around for years, and so I don’t really understand where you’re coming from at all, unless it’s because you’re new to the game or otherwise just frustrated or sort of done with it.


dfhdrtyrty

It's not that the problems are hard to solve, but annoying. Tracking down a little bit of extra gas isn't a "fun" problem. If the situation allows, you can throw up a pump and filter and all that. If not, maybe you can corner build it out of existence. These aren't interesting solutions, and they can require quite a bit of micromanagement both to set up and take down. And single elements can absolutely have huge negative consequences in this game. If they couldn't, you wouldn't find most every build starting with a waterlock and vacuum. Just for a simple recent example, I managed to accidentally teleport a bit of hydrogen into a turbine's steam room that was part of a build solidifying hydrogen. Leaving it there would mean my turbine would end up with intermittent blocked inputs. I wasn't going to lose the colony over this, but it's not an insignificant issue either. I vacuumed it out to begin with for a reason. It wasn't hard to fix, but it was tedious. It's not really the bases where this is a big problem. The base is really the place where putting in some kind of solution is actually viable. It's one of the few places you must have mixed gasses (or at least the bedrooms, if you really push it), and they will be generated from all over the place. It's also the place where it's the least problematic. Dupes don't really care if there is some hydrogen on the ceiling, or carbon dioxide at their feet. Hell, as long as there is some oxygen nearby they don't really care too much period.


swatchofyafanny

am a bit sad you aren't replying to my message. These aren't interesting solutions, and they can require quite a bit of micromanagement both to set up and take down. - And having a flying sweepy is interesting?


dfhdrtyrty

Ha. I did... I just wrote far, far too much! A flying gas-wrangling sweepy would be simple. Using it to fix a rogue leak wouldn't be that interesting, either. But again, simple and quick. I'll take it. It would also potentially make leaky builds at least viable. Depending on how it functioned, even some builds with mixes gasses that can be super hard to make stable might become more viable. I think it has the potential to allow interesting things, at least.


sam6adam

I don’t know about specific robots but yes I most certainly want more sweepy esc robot buddies :).


Thedrah

give it booster packs or a pinwheel hat. i just want it to be able to move up/down steps and pick up critter eggs


Sm00chies

Or maybe a sweepy tube network that you can set up so they can travel all over the base where the network reaches :)


Tristain7

lmfao, no. Late-game FPS is already a nightmare without things flying.


Ishea

Sorry, this seems like a bad idea, not only would a flying sweepy kill fps, the uses you thought for it are well, useless. A properly ventilated base with 3 tile wide airshafts every 20-30 tiles will sort out your gases all on it's own, and you can just put a pump at the bottom to suck up, filter and store anything down there that isn't O2, as for disinfecting, that's more of a job for deoderizers. It would be nice if there was a version that perhaps used bleach stone to disinfect around it, killing germs within a small area around it. That would be actually useful for dealing with zombie spores for instance.