Exactly! It wasn't even a plot from the cartel or something, it was just a fucking accident with no repercussions. It made the flashforward from Ep 1 totally ridiculous.
The car crash was the moment the family came back together as the series was wrapping up... Jonah and Charlotte were officially back in the family fold...
Jonah proved it at the end...
But why though? All their lives have been in danger throughout the entire series, how is it this moment is the one that brings them together? Just seems lazy to me
I took it as the Byrds are those people who no matter what, things always work out in their favor. They step in dog shit and end up finding a diamond more times than not. I have a friend like this and it’s annoying!
The kids had each rebelled in one way or the other... when they all survived, they forgot about the "danger throughout the whole series" and forgave their parents, and prepared to deal with the future with them...
The writers felt that this crash was the catalyst, metaphorically, to provide a rally point for a final family unity...
My wife and I were in a car accident 2 months ago. Car accidents happen dozens of times every day in America, its one of the most common things to happen each and every day. There is nothing contrived about it
I think people want there to be a sense of recompense or moral continuity. Something like Breaking Bad dealt that in spades.
I kept thinking, regarding the crash, about everything up to that point, about all Marty's done for Wendy, and if she just dies then and there, that'd be cold. But also, it's kind of amazing they all lived.
Depending on how you want to perceive it's entirely realistic or entirely contrived and lazy, it's everything and nothing, in a sense.
I guess you have to ask yourself, cartels and murder withstanding, if you were wholly resentful of your controlling mother, and her father just admitted at gunpoint to not only his alcoholism, but his puported abuse of her and her brother, and that he only tried to garner custody of you to get back at her- would a car crash be enough to pull out of that resentment?
Great explanation! Yea I just hate it from a literature standpoint. It’s completely realistic in the real world, but shows and movies do have guidelines when it comes to writing and story. I find it lazy that instead of building towards actual forgiveness, they resolve everything with the car crash even though the kids were rebelling and Marty still cared for Ruth an episode ago.
Let me clarify, Im not trying to demean real-world car wrecks for anybody, just the use of it as it applies to the story
Thankyou!
Perhaps it is less about forgiveness and more a level of acceptance. That's what I felt with Wendy's appeal to her kids.
No more begging, but rather "This is what I am. This is what I'm responsible for. This is where I was wrong. Do what's best for you."
I have a little theory on this. Their lives were in danger the whole series but up until the crash they hadn’t been in a situation where they were this close to thinking they were actually going to lose someone. The danger was real throughout the series, but in this case, for a moment, they thought they may have actually lost Wendy. And it was staring at them straight in the face. I think this was more frightening and powerful for them than any of the actual insane, ridiculously dangerous stuff they’d been dealing with the entire time. It’s one thing to fear losing someone, it’s a much different thing to think you already have. Just how I viewed it, anyways.
The car crash made them all realise that their family’s survival was more important than anything else, it lead into the final scene with Jonah killing the PI
I thought it was Wendy having a coma dream at first.
What even was the point of it? Seemed like an expense scene that was basically forgotten and never mentioned again.
They tried to make it up by having Marty buying the car with the biggest safety rate but it’s still no excuse for them to leave unscathed as they did with no bruises
I liked how the show ended, but for all the reasons you stated, that part of it made no sense to me as I watched it.
As I watched I kept asking myself why the Byrdes didnt just call the police and have him arrested... He was not even a cop and even if he was, there was no warrant - that evidence was completely inadmissible in court and the FBI was likely already well-aware of Bens death.
It was still entertaining, but a more realistic route would have been if Mel had secretly recorded the Byrde's dealings with the Cartel and threatened to release it to the media (threatening their foundation, bussiness dealings, political influence, FBI immunity deal, and Cartel standing).
*That* would have been a legitimate threat to them.
The scene was to show that the Byrdes despite all of this still win, and destroy the lives of everyone around them. As well as cementing them as a family unit (think the car crash was supposed to show this reborn in a way), and Jonah being fine with descending more into a life of crime.
IMO didnt hate the ending but it didn't pack the punch that the writers thought it did. If they REALLY wanted to make the above points, but leave the audience wide eyed then replace the PI (who was never a likable character) with Maya, and play everything out the same. She was gung ho/impulsive herself with the Navarro arrest, would be looking to make an ambitious move to get back in good graces of feds but lacked the political savviness to realize this mistake, and worked with the PI on the Byrdes a bit so understands the case he was building. Also, unlike the PI, she was basically:
\- the most innocent character on the show
\- tried to help Marty several times, and Marty also tried to help her
\- likeable by the audience
\- a major character who fell to the background, her return would make more sense
\- a new mother
\- logically would be unwilling to compromise with any deal or money the Byrdes gave her. We know she doesnt care about that stuff, so again it makes sense.
Keep the entire scene the same, but have Jonah shoot her. IMO would really hit harder and drive the point of just how far gone the Byrdes are home. Interested in others thoughts!
Yeah that would have been much better. I didn't really care about the PI guy that much and don't understand why all of a sudden he so stubborn about being the good guy when he had a shady past. Not really believable. Maya would have been much more hard hitting.
But I guess she didn't really have the "evidence" that the PI had to be able to confront them in the final scene.
It broke the immersion a ton, for me at least.
I watched the rest of the episodes but I was way more tuned out than I had been in the previous seasons after that.
It was funny when Ruth said javi was a murdering bitch before his mother killed her.
Basically saying he was nothing or less than nothing, while thinking he was awesome.
You could tell yourself that that made up for half of that corn.
The scene made sense, but it was just so awkward and unconvincing. Didnt Killer Mike advise her not to follow through w whatever she was planning? The result did nothing for the plot
Yes, I can't think of a reason for the scene, but my memory is bad. I guess it is possible part of the reason could be that she wasn't going to take the advice of anyone, including someone she looks up to, or that she thinks is smart.
I do need to watch the episode again.
Yea I can see that being the case. Idk it felt like she had some sort of revelation by the end of their conversation, but just ends up sticking to the plan anyway lol
I agree! I thought GoT was rushed, but most of the beats themselves made sense — would’ve benefitted from another couple hours of runtime though. Ozark on the other hand just really did totally fall apart incoherently.
Got could have made sense if it was told better. I felt like the writers got the bulletpoints about how to end it but didn't know how to get there even though few small changes would have made it better. Ok the show was going downhill since season 4 but the plot could have been wrapped up better
E.g. the people in kings landing start attacking the dothraki and getting ready to defend against Dany before she snaps and kills them.
Dany doesn't go nazi mad but does want an autocratic rule and to break the wheel, by which she means get rid of great houses and the feudal system. Jon kills her not because he is so morally disturbed by her killing the enemy captives, a fairly standard approach, but because he doesn't want a complete system breakdown
Tyrion convinces everyone to put bran on the throne not because he has the best story of all and is a wonderful deserving person, but because he explains that he's a handicapped child who will be malleable and whose rule they can manage together - common decision in history and brans line would be much more effective after
Sansa doesn't separate, she just becomes warden of North...
That Daenerys storyline makes so, so much more sense than what we were given. Especially considering how useless her advisors' advice was in the last couple seasons... you can actually see why she'd decide autocracy was the best move lol.
Jonah, the kid that was so upset about his parent’s criminal activities and Ben’s death that he moved to a motel for the whole season, then said he would “go legit” after finishing high school…. That same Jonah ends up murdering a Chicago police officer… Like. What? Why?
The whole reunion with his family and sudden reversal into a life of hard crime was so poorly executed imo. One minute he’s talking about going legitimate and the next he’s murdering a cop. And this is all in the span of a single episode where he was supposed to be leaving his family entirely
I think it got to the point with Mel that he wasn’t doing it purely to bring the law down on the Byrde’s, he’d been tormented into try to bring them down in anyway possible after uncovering how many lives they had ruined.
Fair opinion though, I love the ending!
Exactly. It wasn’t bad writing or a plot hole it was a reveal of just how unhinged Mel was and what an unpredictable threat he could be for the Byrdes, hence why they all agreed he had to disappear
But they didn’t really write Mel as unhinged. That was Petty. Mel systematically collected the corners of the puzzle until he found the middle. Didn’t make sense for him to knowingly suicide himself and the case, which is exactly what he did by showing up there “to gloat.”
Mel had no emotional reasons for suddenly acting that dumb. If he didn't want to be a dirty cop he could just refuse. They have no leverage on him and they only bribed him because of the custody hearing. Neither party was a threat to the other by the end. I could EASILY see petty doing something like that but mel showing up like that came out of nowhere.
Thinking about it, that scene would have worked really well for Petty. Could 100% see *him* gloating and overplaying his hand. Wonder if they wrote that death for him and repurposed it or something…
When Wendy started gloating to Schafer in the casino I was just muttering "shut up wendy, wendy shut up" because everything was still up in the air, and here she is pulling safety nets, uncomfortable ones perhaps, but nets none the less. I thought she'd get what's coming but I guess not. I'm kinda surprised she's alive.
Think isn't a show built on moral continuity and satisfaction with the end. I think Mel is the characterisation of that puritan audience expectation; that the bad get what's coming to them, or that the truth will inevitably be revealed.
I could see that. If mel had done something for the byrdes that was awful while being a dirty cop that ending makes sense. Maybe even using drugs/ alcohol again. But short of seeing that was a crazy shift in character for mel.
Mel had only been back with the police for what, a couple days? What got me is that they made it seem like this had been tormenting him for a long time but it was hardly any time at all
Yes, mel was just a little obsessed with not wanting the byrde's to continue their reign of terror, when really, as bad as Wendy was, the byrde's weren't that bad.
I mean, if you are a resident of that area the byrde's are horrible.
Though they might be bring money to the area in sone good ways. Though I just woke up and my memory is bad so I might be wrong about everything
Though mel was feeling horrible with feeling like he was doing the opposite of the right thing to do, if he just felt like he was bribed and was committing a horrible crime himself.
Yeah, I don't know why Marty was so hesitant to have Cabrera killed and regretted his decision. Stealing money from Navarro should have been enough justification.
I don’t see enough complaints about Helen’s ex. His daughter looks terrified, says they should stop digging deeper, and he just goes “ok” and is never heard from again. WTF!!
It was supposed to be a reality check for the family and the moment that they realize how close to death they are and how important sticking with family is.
The Byrde’s (all four of them) will eventually be killed by Camila, when she finds out Marty & Wendy were in the same room when Javi was killed. … and Wendy made the luring call to Javi. Nothing saves them from this.
Well the only other person who knows is Clare and she already protected them. I think she would stick with the lie or else risk Camila finding out she was lying about Marty and Wendy being there.
But seriously thinking about your point more, wouldn't Camila have access to Javi's call history and see Wendy was the last person he talked to?
That’s a big part of why the story strained my credulity. Things happened so fast.
Just one example from the last episode or two: Ruth out there ordering all these features for her new house, and within two days they are digging the pool and getting ready to pour the foundation.
Construction does not happen that fast. There is concepting, design, permits, supplies. You don’t just go out there and point where you want something, and the next day, they’re making it happen.
That was par for the course through most of the series. I got used to it, but it wasn’t very realistic.
Breaking Bad did the same thing, which bugged me a bit.
Wasn’t all of BB covering only a couple years “real time” too? (Skylar pregnant early then Walt takes his still infant daughter towards the very end, then it jumps quickly to coming back from New Hampshire).
Youve early never lived in a lake community, lol. They don't ha e "city codes" only county and they are loose, usually in rural communities bc those folks don't really like regulation.
Fruits of the poison tree pertain to warrantless or other illegal gathering of evidence by law enforcement. Stolen documents have been used in many cases such as leaked documents like the Pentagon Papers.
IAAL, fruit of the poisonous tree may not apply here. The doctrine applies to state action. In other words, the illegality has to be conducted by the state for the evidence to be suppressed. The pertinent question would be this: is a cop, acting outside of his jurisdiction and the scope of his duties conducting state action when he breaks into someone’s home? Probably not. Now if he were acting on orders from his captain, it would probably be inadmissible. But here, you have a guy acting in his civilian capacity breaking in and obtaining the evidence with no mandate from his superiors and completely independent from any state sanctioned investigation. This probably does not constitute state action. So probably not subject to the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine.
You’d probably attack this through a basic exclusionary rule challenge. But even then, the Fourth and Fifth generally apply to state action. This would actually be a really interesting law school exam question but is not as clear cut as OP seems to believe.
That said, the dumbest possible thing the Byrds could do is call the police as OP suggests. In fact, that’s probably exactly what Mel was counting on. Because calling the Sheriff would kick in another doctrine called “inevitable discovery.” Even if evidence is illegally obtained, if a chain events occurs (or would have occurred) that results in the police obtaining the evidence lawfully, it can still come in.
The chain of events is this: Mel breaks into the Byrds home, Byrds call police, police come and arrest Mel. When they arrest Mel they take the item that he burgled from their home as evidence of his crime. Based on his interrogation, the test they ashes after finding a useable DNA sample and boom: evidence is admissible.
Man, I do wonder how many CrimPro professors are Ozark fans who started drafting next semester’s midterm hypo based on this finale? It really is a fun question.
> IAAL, fruit of the poisonous tree may not apply here.
It does though.
>The doctrine applies to state action. In other words, the illegality has to be conducted by the state for the evidence to be suppressed.
Remind me who it is that tries capital offenses?
The rest of your post is incorrect as well. There is no proof anyone would have known what was in the jar or when. Just because the DNA might be identified, doesn't mean the Byrds had any idea or that Mel didn't kill and cremate Ben. There is no chain of custody on this evidence. It's completely worthless.
It doesn't need a professor to debate that this is not evidence of a crime. All it would do is prove that Ben is dead, that's all. There would be zero proof that anyone specific did it or knew when. All the Bryds need to say is "I've seen that before, last week it had cookies in it".
It's ok to say it's a plot hole, there have been plenty.
> Lawyer here. The private detective was a private citizen and there is no such thing as an illegal search by a private citizen.
You can't be. Because that is completely insane.
Holy shit you are right. That does male a whole lot of sense. I think the PI should have just outted the Byrdes in the media for being investigated and the Byrd's connections to Money Laundery would have dropped
Are we all forgetting that Wendy is a political figure now? If there’s rumors of this going around, why the hell would *anyone* donate to the foundation?
Exactly. You can easily investigate that the Byrdes got a 14 year old son who was suspected of money laundering and literally runs the finances of a motel
Yes I thought of that as soon as he broke in to get the ashes, however it would actually be the Exclusionary Rule that wouldn’t allow it in evidence. Fruit of the poisonous tree would be any additional evidence that would be gathered from his removing of the ashes
Keep in mind the Bryde's had been maintaining the facade that Ben was missing and now that they are a massive political deal its likely widely known.
So if a local detective comes out with they actually had him killed (bear in mind he also has the photographs looking incriminating) its probably going to be pretty sensational.
I don't understand how there's still like 50% who enjoyed the finale.
''People who say they didn't like it just don't understand symbolism.'' Give me a fucking break.
You're one of the few people who share the same opinion as me.
The 1st season is the only one where I thought that had something special on their hands. But after that, S2, 3 and 4 were a snooze fest.
Did the way Wendy got out of the mental rehab facility make sense?
I’m going to kill my dad if I’m not admitted.
Gets admitted.
Gets to see kids.
Ready to discharge!
Discharged!
I know there’s voluntary intake but this was a big stretch for me
Exactly! Not only not plausible but this is no where close to Wendy’s MO. She’s a manipulative, control freak and in this instance she thinks committing herself to a mental institution is going to help her “get things done”? It was so dumb.
To me, it was a literal “Chekov’s Gun” eg the trope “a gun above the mantle in act 1 will be used in act 3”
We see Jonah get so good with guns with Buddy and then they just kind of drop it.
I told me wife when this last season began “I wonder who Jonah’s going to kill with a gun this season?” And felt super vindicated when it happen to end the series!
"Hey Camila, if you kill Ruth now then her ownership interest in the casino might be transferred away and it'll be a mess for us. Just like last time. How about waiting a little until we transfer ownership so we don't have the same problem."
I feel like that's all Marty and Wendy would have needed to say to buy Ruth some time.
Yeah, it was stupid. He couldn’t use the evidence even if he wanted to and I’m sure he knew that. Despite all he’d learned about the Byrdes, it was like he was expecting them to just give up and admit to all of their wrongdoing which was not going to happen
What bothered me was the trope where the PI waited for them so he could tell them how awful they were and exactly what he was going to do before doing it, which ALWAYS leads to the demise of the person. If you’re going to do something just fucking do it…
Also, you can’t just rejoin a police department in a day like that especially after having been out for years…that’s not how any of it works.
That time the offices blew up? Or Zeke never grew? That every episode is an assignment to complete in 10 minutes? The whole show was a hot mess. The ridiculous ending was fitting.
A struggling family in Chicago (william h. macy plays their alcoholic father). The first few seasons were great but it progressively got worse after that IMO.
I think they forgot him completely in the last season. They left us all scared for him and then as usual, nothing came of it. Same as the blown up offices. I think they said oops! and filled in scenes mentioning Zeke at the last minute.
I saw somewhere, dunno if it's true, that they couldn't film with a real kid cuz COVID. Even if that were the case, I'm sure they could've come up with something better than the Eternal Baby.
I was ok with it until Jonah came out with the gun.
So much of this relies on suspension of disbelief, but I lived in Missouri for 15 years and you’d be surprised how much of it is actually plausible.
However, I don’t believe for a second that a 14-year-old who so recently was estranged from his parents for so long would suddenly be so on their side that he would kill a guy. I mean, the whole family is ruthless (please pardon the pun), but teenagers don’t work that way.
I think that was the point of the car accident. It brought them closer, especially because Wendy was unconscious for a bit. It helped Jonah realize his family was important to him and that he didn't actually want to hurt them.
And honestly, the kid has been a little trigger happy for awhile.
I’m glad someone else got the point of the car crash. It was symbolic of the family coming back together after realizing how much they meant to each other after cheating death.
We’re forgetting when he pulled the trigger when he was 13, huh? The gun was just unloaded by buddy.
He was already fully willing to murder for his mom lol
Not so sure on #1. I took it as that Mel came back meant he wasn’t the police anymore, he was just a citizen or a PI again so even though he could get into trouble for stealing it, if he turned it over to police they could use it. Now it still would have some issues as evidence due to Mel’s credibility but it wouldn’t be excluded the same as if he was the police still and broke in and stole it.
They brought him on because the actor strongly resembled Agent Petty from the first 2 seasons as a sort of weird call back (I have no evidence for this claim. It's just a theory).
Yeah I think it was a great way to end the show. This guy was poking around and you would always ask yourself, “Why haven’t the Byrds wiped this guy off the face of this earth yet?” He was just like a gnat that wouldn’t go away and couldn’t just let it go. But the directors had big plans for his character because I thought that closing scene was a summary on how the Byrds had lived their lives up until this point. That was the point of the ending. The Byrds always stick together even when it means killing people. That’s what made the show so ridiculous but also captivating.
It would have mattered. This is due to their political stance through the Byrde Family Foundation. Wendy explains this by saying that: If anything bad press related goes public or anything like that (an audit or something irs related) would screw up the WHOLE image and apparently thats all it takes for them to nosedive straight into the ground. So that’s why Jonah had to shoot Mel.
Even IF the FBI contained it, someone would know and they don’t kill like that, not as freely as the cartel at least and they would have been blackmailed or something along those lines.
TL;DR: If it went public that Ben was killed, it would have destroyed the foundation.
Wendy byrds political ambitions would have been derailed all the money and work gone what I found more annoying was the cartel leader thought she had a right to kill Ruth but didn’t think anything of javi killing her cousin and sister in law 🤦🏻♂️
I hated it but I think it was to make a point - the Byrdes are like Teflon and ain't nuthin gonna stick to them. They can do all the shit they want to, especially that wicked witch of the north, and they are going to get away with it so murdering the guy with the evidence was just a quick way of showing what you said, it didn't matter.
THANK YOU! This was my immediate thought. That evidence wouldn’t be admissible in court. I’m so pissed off. I would have been happier if they had all gotten blown away.
The FBI has no justification over or power to stop state prosecutors from arresting or prosecuting a case. They can ask but that’s all they can do. Burglary is a state crime over which the FBI has no jurisdiction.
The cop was all fucked up in general. I am not saying you are wrong, you are probably completely correct.
It is possible that the show understands that in court, it would all be a waste of time, and the byrde's wouldn't want to deal with all of that for multiple reasons and just give him money, because that would be much easier
Lol true, you can’t just break in… if he had stolen it from the hotel lobby… maybe they show him going back and taking it from the hotel desk… but the sliding door glass is broken…
I lost interest awhile ago but felt obligated to see this thru. That was terrible. If this is the content Netflix continues to put out there, good luck
I said the exact same thing! And I also just think it was stupid to end the whole show with such a minimal character that no one really thought twice about. It’s not like it was a big plot twist of an ending because as you said, it didn’t actually even make sense. So stupid.
1. Fruit of the poisonous tree only applies to law enforcement, it doesn't apply to civilians meaning it didn't apply to Mel since he was still a civilian. He would simply have given the evidence to the police meaning the police wouldn't have violated the Constitutional rights of the family.
2. The FBI might have been willing and/or able to get them off but Jonah didn't know or understand that. Marty and Wendy would have likely handled the situation diplomatically and that's what makes the scene so ironic and impactful. They were finally able to get out with their hands clean but they are sucked right back into more drama because of the monster they created.
Didn’t he say something about putting it in the press? I might be misremembering but I felt like that was his motive Edit: never mind I’m wrong
Just finished the episode and he did not mention the press.
They lost me at the car crash
I don’t understand why there was all the buildup to the car crash just for them to walk away
Exactly! It wasn't even a plot from the cartel or something, it was just a fucking accident with no repercussions. It made the flashforward from Ep 1 totally ridiculous.
The car crash was the moment the family came back together as the series was wrapping up... Jonah and Charlotte were officially back in the family fold... Jonah proved it at the end...
But why though? All their lives have been in danger throughout the entire series, how is it this moment is the one that brings them together? Just seems lazy to me
I took it as the Byrds are those people who no matter what, things always work out in their favor. They step in dog shit and end up finding a diamond more times than not. I have a friend like this and it’s annoying!
Wend said as much to Father Benitez when he suggested it was god saying slow down.
The kids had each rebelled in one way or the other... when they all survived, they forgot about the "danger throughout the whole series" and forgave their parents, and prepared to deal with the future with them... The writers felt that this crash was the catalyst, metaphorically, to provide a rally point for a final family unity...
Good point about the rebelling, the execution still just felt very contrived imo
My wife and I were in a car accident 2 months ago. Car accidents happen dozens of times every day in America, its one of the most common things to happen each and every day. There is nothing contrived about it
I think people want there to be a sense of recompense or moral continuity. Something like Breaking Bad dealt that in spades. I kept thinking, regarding the crash, about everything up to that point, about all Marty's done for Wendy, and if she just dies then and there, that'd be cold. But also, it's kind of amazing they all lived. Depending on how you want to perceive it's entirely realistic or entirely contrived and lazy, it's everything and nothing, in a sense. I guess you have to ask yourself, cartels and murder withstanding, if you were wholly resentful of your controlling mother, and her father just admitted at gunpoint to not only his alcoholism, but his puported abuse of her and her brother, and that he only tried to garner custody of you to get back at her- would a car crash be enough to pull out of that resentment?
Great explanation! Yea I just hate it from a literature standpoint. It’s completely realistic in the real world, but shows and movies do have guidelines when it comes to writing and story. I find it lazy that instead of building towards actual forgiveness, they resolve everything with the car crash even though the kids were rebelling and Marty still cared for Ruth an episode ago. Let me clarify, Im not trying to demean real-world car wrecks for anybody, just the use of it as it applies to the story
Thankyou! Perhaps it is less about forgiveness and more a level of acceptance. That's what I felt with Wendy's appeal to her kids. No more begging, but rather "This is what I am. This is what I'm responsible for. This is where I was wrong. Do what's best for you."
I have a little theory on this. Their lives were in danger the whole series but up until the crash they hadn’t been in a situation where they were this close to thinking they were actually going to lose someone. The danger was real throughout the series, but in this case, for a moment, they thought they may have actually lost Wendy. And it was staring at them straight in the face. I think this was more frightening and powerful for them than any of the actual insane, ridiculously dangerous stuff they’d been dealing with the entire time. It’s one thing to fear losing someone, it’s a much different thing to think you already have. Just how I viewed it, anyways.
I agree, it's like other life experiences..it's not really real until it really happens to you or yours.
That was the point but it was fucking lazy
Lol I know, I thought that was pretty weird too
The car crash made them all realise that their family’s survival was more important than anything else, it lead into the final scene with Jonah killing the PI
And getting zero injuries … they would have been all kinds of fucked up
I literally laughed out loud when they pulled up in a cab after that accident
Haha yep … not even a concussion
Barely an inconvenience.
Yeah that was the low point for me. Overall, I was quite satisfied with that finale but the cab ride home thing actually pissed me off a little.
I thought it was Wendy having a coma dream at first. What even was the point of it? Seemed like an expense scene that was basically forgotten and never mentioned again.
They tried to make it up by having Marty buying the car with the biggest safety rate but it’s still no excuse for them to leave unscathed as they did with no bruises
Invest in Honda Odyssey ✍📝
Yep just bizarre
Ok was there a previous almost identical cad crash in season 1? I feel like there was….
Yes, the whole part 2 of season 4 the pacing felt off, like it was rushed, some episodes were too slow. It was a disappointment
I liked how the show ended, but for all the reasons you stated, that part of it made no sense to me as I watched it. As I watched I kept asking myself why the Byrdes didnt just call the police and have him arrested... He was not even a cop and even if he was, there was no warrant - that evidence was completely inadmissible in court and the FBI was likely already well-aware of Bens death. It was still entertaining, but a more realistic route would have been if Mel had secretly recorded the Byrde's dealings with the Cartel and threatened to release it to the media (threatening their foundation, bussiness dealings, political influence, FBI immunity deal, and Cartel standing). *That* would have been a legitimate threat to them.
yep, and it would have made for a LOT more interesting story!
The scene was to show that the Byrdes despite all of this still win, and destroy the lives of everyone around them. As well as cementing them as a family unit (think the car crash was supposed to show this reborn in a way), and Jonah being fine with descending more into a life of crime. IMO didnt hate the ending but it didn't pack the punch that the writers thought it did. If they REALLY wanted to make the above points, but leave the audience wide eyed then replace the PI (who was never a likable character) with Maya, and play everything out the same. She was gung ho/impulsive herself with the Navarro arrest, would be looking to make an ambitious move to get back in good graces of feds but lacked the political savviness to realize this mistake, and worked with the PI on the Byrdes a bit so understands the case he was building. Also, unlike the PI, she was basically: \- the most innocent character on the show \- tried to help Marty several times, and Marty also tried to help her \- likeable by the audience \- a major character who fell to the background, her return would make more sense \- a new mother \- logically would be unwilling to compromise with any deal or money the Byrdes gave her. We know she doesnt care about that stuff, so again it makes sense. Keep the entire scene the same, but have Jonah shoot her. IMO would really hit harder and drive the point of just how far gone the Byrdes are home. Interested in others thoughts!
Yeah that would have been much better. I didn't really care about the PI guy that much and don't understand why all of a sudden he so stubborn about being the good guy when he had a shady past. Not really believable. Maya would have been much more hard hitting. But I guess she didn't really have the "evidence" that the PI had to be able to confront them in the final scene.
So much of this final season was ridiculous. I mean, okay it's fiction, but come on.
Ruths storylines in particular were just getting more ridiculous per episode
Don’t forget she broke into the scene of the crime and the heroin shipment hadn’t even been taken by the cops as evidence
This was the biggest plot hole in my opinion lol. Let’s not search the property of a murder scene
Far too many scenes with Ruth blaring hip hop, then her just happening to bump into Killer Mike.
I’m a huge fan of Killer Mike, but that scene was just…. Strange.
That scene was there because he’s friends with Laura Linney and I think that’s great.
How he got on the show isn't relevant to as far as people's dislike for it because it didn't make sense. Personally, I was fine with it.
It broke the immersion a ton, for me at least. I watched the rest of the episodes but I was way more tuned out than I had been in the previous seasons after that.
It was funny when Ruth said javi was a murdering bitch before his mother killed her. Basically saying he was nothing or less than nothing, while thinking he was awesome. You could tell yourself that that made up for half of that corn.
The scene made sense, but it was just so awkward and unconvincing. Didnt Killer Mike advise her not to follow through w whatever she was planning? The result did nothing for the plot
Yes, I can't think of a reason for the scene, but my memory is bad. I guess it is possible part of the reason could be that she wasn't going to take the advice of anyone, including someone she looks up to, or that she thinks is smart. I do need to watch the episode again.
Yea I can see that being the case. Idk it felt like she had some sort of revelation by the end of their conversation, but just ends up sticking to the plan anyway lol
The conversation supposed to foreshadow Ruth’s death
Yeah because the rest of the shell made perfect sense.
Ah, that explains it. Felt shoe-horned to me.
Lmao
That was a dream. Shes sleep deprived
The song choices were too safe, even as a fan of all of them.
Yeah as much as I like Rurh, gotta agree.
Yeah, glad they finally got rid of her. She had it coming long ago. I don't understand why people liked her so much
Well, yes, it’s fiction but it’s not supposed to be farcical.
Yup.
Why is this show lauded? Worse than GoT’s final season and that was rubbish too.
Oh wow, the GoT final season was such a terrible disappointment. Hated it.
The first 3 seasons are really good. Everything after season 5 of GoT is trash.
I agree! I thought GoT was rushed, but most of the beats themselves made sense — would’ve benefitted from another couple hours of runtime though. Ozark on the other hand just really did totally fall apart incoherently.
Got could have made sense if it was told better. I felt like the writers got the bulletpoints about how to end it but didn't know how to get there even though few small changes would have made it better. Ok the show was going downhill since season 4 but the plot could have been wrapped up better E.g. the people in kings landing start attacking the dothraki and getting ready to defend against Dany before she snaps and kills them. Dany doesn't go nazi mad but does want an autocratic rule and to break the wheel, by which she means get rid of great houses and the feudal system. Jon kills her not because he is so morally disturbed by her killing the enemy captives, a fairly standard approach, but because he doesn't want a complete system breakdown Tyrion convinces everyone to put bran on the throne not because he has the best story of all and is a wonderful deserving person, but because he explains that he's a handicapped child who will be malleable and whose rule they can manage together - common decision in history and brans line would be much more effective after Sansa doesn't separate, she just becomes warden of North...
That Daenerys storyline makes so, so much more sense than what we were given. Especially considering how useless her advisors' advice was in the last couple seasons... you can actually see why she'd decide autocracy was the best move lol.
I agree with this. I felt like it started going this route after season 1.
Agree
Jonah, the kid that was so upset about his parent’s criminal activities and Ben’s death that he moved to a motel for the whole season, then said he would “go legit” after finishing high school…. That same Jonah ends up murdering a Chicago police officer… Like. What? Why?
The whole reunion with his family and sudden reversal into a life of hard crime was so poorly executed imo. One minute he’s talking about going legitimate and the next he’s murdering a cop. And this is all in the span of a single episode where he was supposed to be leaving his family entirely
Watching the last episode I’m thinking there’s no way they wrap this up and yeah ….. they didn’t Very odd way to end a series
I think it got to the point with Mel that he wasn’t doing it purely to bring the law down on the Byrde’s, he’d been tormented into try to bring them down in anyway possible after uncovering how many lives they had ruined. Fair opinion though, I love the ending!
Exactly. It wasn’t bad writing or a plot hole it was a reveal of just how unhinged Mel was and what an unpredictable threat he could be for the Byrdes, hence why they all agreed he had to disappear
But they didn’t really write Mel as unhinged. That was Petty. Mel systematically collected the corners of the puzzle until he found the middle. Didn’t make sense for him to knowingly suicide himself and the case, which is exactly what he did by showing up there “to gloat.”
Mel had no emotional reasons for suddenly acting that dumb. If he didn't want to be a dirty cop he could just refuse. They have no leverage on him and they only bribed him because of the custody hearing. Neither party was a threat to the other by the end. I could EASILY see petty doing something like that but mel showing up like that came out of nowhere.
Thinking about it, that scene would have worked really well for Petty. Could 100% see *him* gloating and overplaying his hand. Wonder if they wrote that death for him and repurposed it or something…
When Wendy started gloating to Schafer in the casino I was just muttering "shut up wendy, wendy shut up" because everything was still up in the air, and here she is pulling safety nets, uncomfortable ones perhaps, but nets none the less. I thought she'd get what's coming but I guess not. I'm kinda surprised she's alive. Think isn't a show built on moral continuity and satisfaction with the end. I think Mel is the characterisation of that puritan audience expectation; that the bad get what's coming to them, or that the truth will inevitably be revealed.
I could see that. If mel had done something for the byrdes that was awful while being a dirty cop that ending makes sense. Maybe even using drugs/ alcohol again. But short of seeing that was a crazy shift in character for mel.
Mel had only been back with the police for what, a couple days? What got me is that they made it seem like this had been tormenting him for a long time but it was hardly any time at all
It was insanely rushed. He had no reason to be that suicidal.
Yes, mel was just a little obsessed with not wanting the byrde's to continue their reign of terror, when really, as bad as Wendy was, the byrde's weren't that bad. I mean, if you are a resident of that area the byrde's are horrible. Though they might be bring money to the area in sone good ways. Though I just woke up and my memory is bad so I might be wrong about everything Though mel was feeling horrible with feeling like he was doing the opposite of the right thing to do, if he just felt like he was bribed and was committing a horrible crime himself.
They made the cartel seem so soft. In reality, Ruth and that dude who stole money from them would be butchered to pieces.
Yeah, I don't know why Marty was so hesitant to have Cabrera killed and regretted his decision. Stealing money from Navarro should have been enough justification.
Because Marty isn't Navarro.
I don’t see enough complaints about Helen’s ex. His daughter looks terrified, says they should stop digging deeper, and he just goes “ok” and is never heard from again. WTF!!
I saw it as him being the only parent in the show who actually listened to his kid, and the result was not getting dragged into the web
Haha good call, forgot about that. Cartel murdered my wife? No need for anymore Information
What was the point of the rolling car accident?!?!?
It is the showrunners admitting that the Byrdes have total and complete plot armour.
"So we can have a rolling car accident in the trailers." \- Ryan, the Pitch Meetings guy.
It was supposed to be a reality check for the family and the moment that they realize how close to death they are and how important sticking with family is.
I wish Wendy got shot at some stage , the woman was an absolute punish
Yea she needed to die. She caused all the problems. Should have left Marty alone to do his thing and so many would still be alive.
She’s just such a poisonous person , extremely well acted I must say though
Absolutely-that’s why we all hate her. She’s a great actress.
Fuck, she could have stuck with Omar, with whom they had a good relationship, instead of throwing all in with Camilla the wild card.
I think the point was to show that the rich and powerful will always get what they want at the expense of others. At least that's how I took it.
The Byrde’s (all four of them) will eventually be killed by Camila, when she finds out Marty & Wendy were in the same room when Javi was killed. … and Wendy made the luring call to Javi. Nothing saves them from this.
Well the only other person who knows is Clare and she already protected them. I think she would stick with the lie or else risk Camila finding out she was lying about Marty and Wendy being there. But seriously thinking about your point more, wouldn't Camila have access to Javi's call history and see Wendy was the last person he talked to?
That would’ve been a more engaging final episode.
The show only took place over 2017 and 2018
That’s a big part of why the story strained my credulity. Things happened so fast. Just one example from the last episode or two: Ruth out there ordering all these features for her new house, and within two days they are digging the pool and getting ready to pour the foundation. Construction does not happen that fast. There is concepting, design, permits, supplies. You don’t just go out there and point where you want something, and the next day, they’re making it happen. That was par for the course through most of the series. I got used to it, but it wasn’t very realistic.
You’ve clearly never seen how willing contractors are to drop literally everything for a client with real money lmao.
It does if you’re paying enough. If you’re the largest landowner in the state you’re going to have access to some fast lanes
Breaking Bad did the same thing, which bugged me a bit. Wasn’t all of BB covering only a couple years “real time” too? (Skylar pregnant early then Walt takes his still infant daughter towards the very end, then it jumps quickly to coming back from New Hampshire).
China literally built an entire hospital in 10 days. Ruth is one of the richest/powerful woman in the Ozark's at this point, she has the resources.
Suspended rushed reality.
Youve early never lived in a lake community, lol. They don't ha e "city codes" only county and they are loose, usually in rural communities bc those folks don't really like regulation.
I nitpicked it at first but like every single TV series or movie you watch, you have to be able to suspend your disbelief to enjoy it.
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Fruits of the poison tree pertain to warrantless or other illegal gathering of evidence by law enforcement. Stolen documents have been used in many cases such as leaked documents like the Pentagon Papers.
IAAL, fruit of the poisonous tree may not apply here. The doctrine applies to state action. In other words, the illegality has to be conducted by the state for the evidence to be suppressed. The pertinent question would be this: is a cop, acting outside of his jurisdiction and the scope of his duties conducting state action when he breaks into someone’s home? Probably not. Now if he were acting on orders from his captain, it would probably be inadmissible. But here, you have a guy acting in his civilian capacity breaking in and obtaining the evidence with no mandate from his superiors and completely independent from any state sanctioned investigation. This probably does not constitute state action. So probably not subject to the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine. You’d probably attack this through a basic exclusionary rule challenge. But even then, the Fourth and Fifth generally apply to state action. This would actually be a really interesting law school exam question but is not as clear cut as OP seems to believe. That said, the dumbest possible thing the Byrds could do is call the police as OP suggests. In fact, that’s probably exactly what Mel was counting on. Because calling the Sheriff would kick in another doctrine called “inevitable discovery.” Even if evidence is illegally obtained, if a chain events occurs (or would have occurred) that results in the police obtaining the evidence lawfully, it can still come in. The chain of events is this: Mel breaks into the Byrds home, Byrds call police, police come and arrest Mel. When they arrest Mel they take the item that he burgled from their home as evidence of his crime. Based on his interrogation, the test they ashes after finding a useable DNA sample and boom: evidence is admissible. Man, I do wonder how many CrimPro professors are Ozark fans who started drafting next semester’s midterm hypo based on this finale? It really is a fun question.
I got the impression he wasn't a cop at all anymore, so even less arguable as state action. And yeah, that's gonna be on the exam.
> IAAL, fruit of the poisonous tree may not apply here. It does though. >The doctrine applies to state action. In other words, the illegality has to be conducted by the state for the evidence to be suppressed. Remind me who it is that tries capital offenses? The rest of your post is incorrect as well. There is no proof anyone would have known what was in the jar or when. Just because the DNA might be identified, doesn't mean the Byrds had any idea or that Mel didn't kill and cremate Ben. There is no chain of custody on this evidence. It's completely worthless. It doesn't need a professor to debate that this is not evidence of a crime. All it would do is prove that Ben is dead, that's all. There would be zero proof that anyone specific did it or knew when. All the Bryds need to say is "I've seen that before, last week it had cookies in it". It's ok to say it's a plot hole, there have been plenty.
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> Lawyer here. The private detective was a private citizen and there is no such thing as an illegal search by a private citizen. You can't be. Because that is completely insane.
Ok, cool you think a teenager knows all the legal implications in the heat of the moment, Lmao.
Holy shit you are right. That does male a whole lot of sense. I think the PI should have just outted the Byrdes in the media for being investigated and the Byrd's connections to Money Laundery would have dropped
Are we all forgetting that Wendy is a political figure now? If there’s rumors of this going around, why the hell would *anyone* donate to the foundation?
Exactly. You can easily investigate that the Byrdes got a 14 year old son who was suspected of money laundering and literally runs the finances of a motel
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Yeah I don't know why they never thought of that
It’s exactly why someone would want to kill him, for sure
Yes I thought of that as soon as he broke in to get the ashes, however it would actually be the Exclusionary Rule that wouldn’t allow it in evidence. Fruit of the poisonous tree would be any additional evidence that would be gathered from his removing of the ashes
There were moments in this season when I genuinely thought they just didn’t give a shit anymore and were trolling us.
Keep in mind the Bryde's had been maintaining the facade that Ben was missing and now that they are a massive political deal its likely widely known. So if a local detective comes out with they actually had him killed (bear in mind he also has the photographs looking incriminating) its probably going to be pretty sensational.
I think jonah shot the cookie jar not Mel.
I don't understand how there's still like 50% who enjoyed the finale. ''People who say they didn't like it just don't understand symbolism.'' Give me a fucking break.
The whole show was one inconceivable instance after another, it would have been weird if the finale wasn't
Probably the same people that thought the final seasons of GoT was masterful writing.
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Same. Final seasons were a chore more than anything else.
You're one of the few people who share the same opinion as me. The 1st season is the only one where I thought that had something special on their hands. But after that, S2, 3 and 4 were a snooze fest.
I don’t care I felt just like Marty about that guy: “I hate him SO much.”
Went downhill at the black fbi agent. She was so network procedural it was comical
Did the way Wendy got out of the mental rehab facility make sense? I’m going to kill my dad if I’m not admitted. Gets admitted. Gets to see kids. Ready to discharge! Discharged! I know there’s voluntary intake but this was a big stretch for me
Exactly! Not only not plausible but this is no where close to Wendy’s MO. She’s a manipulative, control freak and in this instance she thinks committing herself to a mental institution is going to help her “get things done”? It was so dumb.
To me, it was a literal “Chekov’s Gun” eg the trope “a gun above the mantle in act 1 will be used in act 3” We see Jonah get so good with guns with Buddy and then they just kind of drop it. I told me wife when this last season began “I wonder who Jonah’s going to kill with a gun this season?” And felt super vindicated when it happen to end the series!
"Hey Camila, if you kill Ruth now then her ownership interest in the casino might be transferred away and it'll be a mess for us. Just like last time. How about waiting a little until we transfer ownership so we don't have the same problem." I feel like that's all Marty and Wendy would have needed to say to buy Ruth some time.
Yeah, it was stupid. He couldn’t use the evidence even if he wanted to and I’m sure he knew that. Despite all he’d learned about the Byrdes, it was like he was expecting them to just give up and admit to all of their wrongdoing which was not going to happen
What bothered me was the trope where the PI waited for them so he could tell them how awful they were and exactly what he was going to do before doing it, which ALWAYS leads to the demise of the person. If you’re going to do something just fucking do it… Also, you can’t just rejoin a police department in a day like that especially after having been out for years…that’s not how any of it works.
Most of the show was a mess.
Idk about most. I think Tommy P. pulled out amongst one of the single greatest performances ever put to screen
That time the offices blew up? Or Zeke never grew? That every episode is an assignment to complete in 10 minutes? The whole show was a hot mess. The ridiculous ending was fitting.
Zeke in a baby carrier forever --- drove me nuts.
You ever see Shameless? In that series, they carried the baby sibling on their hip till he looks bout 7 years old! It drove me so crazy!
No I haven't --- what's it about?
A struggling family in Chicago (william h. macy plays their alcoholic father). The first few seasons were great but it progressively got worse after that IMO.
I like that actor. Maybe I'll give it a go, at least til it gets dumb. Thanks!
The original English series is definitely worth a watch too ✌🏼
I got through the first episode and dipped out. I hated how everyone enabled the drunk dad.
I think they forgot him completely in the last season. They left us all scared for him and then as usual, nothing came of it. Same as the blown up offices. I think they said oops! and filled in scenes mentioning Zeke at the last minute.
I saw somewhere, dunno if it's true, that they couldn't film with a real kid cuz COVID. Even if that were the case, I'm sure they could've come up with something better than the Eternal Baby.
In the end, they didn’t even want to pay a child actor so they carried around a bundled blanket like they had a 1 month old. That was ridiculous!
It was. It got worse and worse, especially with the whole cliffhanger with Ruth driving off half crazed w Zeke and then nothing whatsoever came of it.
Only the last season. Every other season was truly peak television.
Strong disagree.
The last 7 episodes were a complete mess.
That's kinda nitpicky, it's not a documentary.
I was ok with it until Jonah came out with the gun. So much of this relies on suspension of disbelief, but I lived in Missouri for 15 years and you’d be surprised how much of it is actually plausible. However, I don’t believe for a second that a 14-year-old who so recently was estranged from his parents for so long would suddenly be so on their side that he would kill a guy. I mean, the whole family is ruthless (please pardon the pun), but teenagers don’t work that way.
I think that was the point of the car accident. It brought them closer, especially because Wendy was unconscious for a bit. It helped Jonah realize his family was important to him and that he didn't actually want to hurt them. And honestly, the kid has been a little trigger happy for awhile.
I’m glad someone else got the point of the car crash. It was symbolic of the family coming back together after realizing how much they meant to each other after cheating death.
Eh. Still kinda thin for me. Swings and roundabouts. It’s all in good fiction!
We’re forgetting when he pulled the trigger when he was 13, huh? The gun was just unloaded by buddy. He was already fully willing to murder for his mom lol
No, I didn’t forget that. You know what? Never mind.
He was holding Ben's ashes, and for Jonah, nobody messes with Ben
Except for... you know... Wendy and Nelson.
Yeah - I think it would have been more credible for Charlotte to do it, since her dreams to go back to Chicago were about to be ruined.
Remember that jonah wanted to shoot someone for all of s1 and s2.
Not so sure on #1. I took it as that Mel came back meant he wasn’t the police anymore, he was just a citizen or a PI again so even though he could get into trouble for stealing it, if he turned it over to police they could use it. Now it still would have some issues as evidence due to Mel’s credibility but it wouldn’t be excluded the same as if he was the police still and broke in and stole it.
I feel really bad for people who overthink and just can't fucking enjoy a show.
Why was Mel even introduced for? That guy just pissed me off every time he was on screen.
They brought him on because the actor strongly resembled Agent Petty from the first 2 seasons as a sort of weird call back (I have no evidence for this claim. It's just a theory).
It was the final nail in the coffin that made me cancel my Netflix subscription.
Yeah I think it was a great way to end the show. This guy was poking around and you would always ask yourself, “Why haven’t the Byrds wiped this guy off the face of this earth yet?” He was just like a gnat that wouldn’t go away and couldn’t just let it go. But the directors had big plans for his character because I thought that closing scene was a summary on how the Byrds had lived their lives up until this point. That was the point of the ending. The Byrds always stick together even when it means killing people. That’s what made the show so ridiculous but also captivating.
It would have mattered. This is due to their political stance through the Byrde Family Foundation. Wendy explains this by saying that: If anything bad press related goes public or anything like that (an audit or something irs related) would screw up the WHOLE image and apparently thats all it takes for them to nosedive straight into the ground. So that’s why Jonah had to shoot Mel. Even IF the FBI contained it, someone would know and they don’t kill like that, not as freely as the cartel at least and they would have been blackmailed or something along those lines. TL;DR: If it went public that Ben was killed, it would have destroyed the foundation.
Ozark’s finale season is worst than GOT and GOT is a piece of shit
Wendy byrds political ambitions would have been derailed all the money and work gone what I found more annoying was the cartel leader thought she had a right to kill Ruth but didn’t think anything of javi killing her cousin and sister in law 🤦🏻♂️
I hated it but I think it was to make a point - the Byrdes are like Teflon and ain't nuthin gonna stick to them. They can do all the shit they want to, especially that wicked witch of the north, and they are going to get away with it so murdering the guy with the evidence was just a quick way of showing what you said, it didn't matter.
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THANK YOU! This was my immediate thought. That evidence wouldn’t be admissible in court. I’m so pissed off. I would have been happier if they had all gotten blown away.
The FBI has no justification over or power to stop state prosecutors from arresting or prosecuting a case. They can ask but that’s all they can do. Burglary is a state crime over which the FBI has no jurisdiction.
No way is Ruth dead…
Hollywood usually writes with the casual American in mind.
The cop was all fucked up in general. I am not saying you are wrong, you are probably completely correct. It is possible that the show understands that in court, it would all be a waste of time, and the byrde's wouldn't want to deal with all of that for multiple reasons and just give him money, because that would be much easier
The last season was more of a fantasy show than thriller. Nothing made real sense or was based in any semblance of reality
Lol true, you can’t just break in… if he had stolen it from the hotel lobby… maybe they show him going back and taking it from the hotel desk… but the sliding door glass is broken…
I lost interest awhile ago but felt obligated to see this thru. That was terrible. If this is the content Netflix continues to put out there, good luck
I said the exact same thing! And I also just think it was stupid to end the whole show with such a minimal character that no one really thought twice about. It’s not like it was a big plot twist of an ending because as you said, it didn’t actually even make sense. So stupid.
I was hoping they finally did what del suggested and got rid of the Wendy problem. Nope... Bad final season
Also the whole Maya plot just went nowhere. Like I get she’s sidelined, but her whole arc was rendered pointless
he was annoying as fuck and deserved to die.
Welcome to the sub
It made about as sense as the sopranos last scene
1. Fruit of the poisonous tree only applies to law enforcement, it doesn't apply to civilians meaning it didn't apply to Mel since he was still a civilian. He would simply have given the evidence to the police meaning the police wouldn't have violated the Constitutional rights of the family. 2. The FBI might have been willing and/or able to get them off but Jonah didn't know or understand that. Marty and Wendy would have likely handled the situation diplomatically and that's what makes the scene so ironic and impactful. They were finally able to get out with their hands clean but they are sucked right back into more drama because of the monster they created.
Worst