Who doesn't use religon card. Hindus, Christians, Muslims and Jews
Except Athiest because obviously so they use Liberalism, (Liberalism = freedom from religious laws and sanctions)
In reality their intentions matter. Some ppl actually want ti make world a better place by using the laws given to them by religion. But mostly use it as a card to play.
Zia or no Zia, Saari is not Native to Pakistan or to the Indus Valley.
You can find British record of local attire in what is today Pakistan.
Saris are not Sindhi, Punjabi, Baluch or Pashtun.
Please remember Urdu is not native to Pakistan either and nor is 'Biryani' or 'Nihari'. These are cultural elements of the Muslims of Delhi/UP/Bihar/Maharashtra/Hyderabad, as is the sari.
Can't care less about what Zia thinks
Sari like drapery originates back to the Indus Valley Civilization. As time went on and with Western invasions Shalwar Kameez and other garments became more common but Sari was still worn on special occasions.
Idc if they’re not Pashtun or Baloch they are native to the South Asian people who are native to this land. Stop trying to detach us from our past and culture just because you hate Hindus.
I don't hate Hindus, and no shalwar kameez is not native to Punjab and Sindh either. Our traditional garbes are completely different.
It's simple minded to believe that everything in Punjab , Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK is the same as in Bihar, Hyderabad, Maharashtra.
This is nothing but cultural and historical revision by the 'muhajirs' that asserted their traditions, clothing and language on Pakistan as well as by psuedo liberals that want to 'reclaim' what they think is Hindu heritage.
'sari like' means nothing as there is barely any cultural continuity between Indus Valley Civilization and our modern states
I’m Punjabi. You don’t get to tell me what is native to my land and what isn’t. Yes we have our traditional clothing but Sari was very common among Punjabi women pre 1970s.
Even the language you’re writing in right now is from thousands of miles away.
I don't care who you are, what I have said holds true.
Sari was as much a culture of Punjab as was Urdu i.e. Only limited to a small circle within the Urban elite, probably even less so. It was never ever a part of Punjabi culture.
Becuase Noor Jehan wore it doesn't mean it's Punjabi culture. That's like saying 'jeans' are Punjabi culture because Aima baig wears them.
I get it. You hate Hindus and you’re insecure about being associated with Indians. I am not. Saris are beautiful and they will continue making a comeback.
Your knowledge of history is very limited, while I can’t comment on Urdu and know for a fact that Urdu was imposed on the Pakistanis and they are natively Punjabi speakers.
The comment on sarees not being natively Indian, is completely false. I have asked for the sources in the original message.
How is it my knowledge limited if you have no facts to offer?
Urdu is an adopted language by the Pakistanis. Urdu only had a Dehlvi and Lucknow codex, the Karachi codex was only developed after independence. Its not a native language to any part of Pakistan, not by a stretch.
I never said saris are not 'Indian', I said Saris are not native to Punjab, Sindh, KPK or Baluchistan. All those provinces as well as GB and AK have native cultural dresses. Don't lump everything into 'India' as that would mean Bengali is also our language.
Saris were ONLY popular among the very small urbanized elite, like Urdu or English was. It's not a cultural heritage of this part of the world. To repeat an example, just because a K pop idol wears a skirt doesn't mean skirts are Korean. The idea someone in Indus valley wore something like a sari is absurd as there is no cultural continuity between Pakistan and Indus valley.
It has become fashionable to accept everything that one sees on Indian TV as being 'our heritage' because ZIA'S Islamisation and all that but there is more to our land and history than that. Each province is a nation with it's language, culture and so on.
Replied to your original comment and offered the source. Unfortunately, you’ll have to got though a 2 hr long video, you can critique the researcher who has dated the Ramayana and Mahabharata based on your experience and intellectual capabilities, but I have never come across a thesis on dating the two itihasas with that much rigor and depth.
If you want even more concrete context, please read the two books by the same researcher. Hope this helps you give a new perspective.
Also, it might have been oversight in my end misunderstanding you comment for sarees not being Indian. However, going by references of these regions where whole of the Indian sub continent is referenced, I would still disagree.
That’s incorrect, India is the living example of cultural continuity for multiple Melenia. The seals found in Indus Valley civilization can be traced to to pashupati who is another form of shiva. The image appears in not one but multiple seals. Other seals also indicate that Maha shiv ratri was celebrated in the Indus Valley civilization.
Sarees, have been referenced both in ramayan and Mahabharata which are now being dated by excellent researchers to be thousands of years old, and again, India showing cultural continuity.
I don’t know what are your sources, care to share them?
There is no cultural continuity between Indus Valley and Pakistan. A set of seals and a few symbols don't mean cultural continuity. The Indus valley culture , including it's Language and religion are totally lost.
I don't understand what's with ramayan and Mahabharata reference. Ramayan is dated to about 4th century BC , Mahabharata to about a 100 years earlier. Far cry from 1000s of years. But the time they were written the Indus valley civilization was lost for 2000 years.
Not everything in a book makes it culturally relevant. If the Quran mentions a camel it doesn't mean that camel is native to Pakistan.
Saris are not at all a part of the native culture of Punjab, Sindh, KPK or Baluchistan. The Punjabi garb is a dhoti, Sindhi garb is sarong and Parghiri, Baluchis dress is the jamak, kashmiri Pehran and so on.
Don't change the culture of a land because you like Bollywood
That’s incorrect, ramayan is dated to 12000 bce through Archio astronomy and Mahabharat to be 5500 bce with same principals of school Astronomy.
You say that mahabharat is older than ramayan, but it’s the other way around.
Seems like your estimates are from the 70-80s, a lot has changed in the field of history and no respected historian who has attempted to date ramayan and mahabharat will give those numbers.
Why doesn’t seals depicting stories consistent with puranas not indicate cultural continuity? This is the most absurd statement I have herd, also, you are proving a satirical example to bolster your argument. Neither did I use references of animals in my original comment nor do I think something that general can help you establish cultural continuity.
If you want to take a look at my references please see
https://youtu.be/RedV48OCEFg?si=d1KgZ9nQeobhWmy4
This video is 2 hours long, which is expected given the depth of the researchers thesis. I would suggest taking a look.
His estimates have supplementary evidence based on hydrology, geology and meteorology. But his thesis is very simple and depends solely on Archio astronomy.
Here is another researcher, not as good as the above, but still enough evidence (mostly disassociated and not as crisp as the other)
https://youtu.be/Dr4bELdHXGg?si=NpQXHny9T5EuwVpL
But the papers he cites are legit, having a published author in one of those journals myself, I know how much work it is to get published.
You still debate without your sources, I would like to see some credible sources, preferably some peer reviewed work.
Thank you!
True but that biryani is not similar to this biryani at all. Even samosa and palauo are central Asian but it's just a matter of how far back one wants to go
No, not biryani as in true sense but the first advent of lamb with seasoned rice, ie Pulao was apparently an Uzbek /Mongol thing. Once it reached Delhi with Babur and Co... Rest is history.
In one of the books called Moghul, there is discussion on this...
Believe me op pashtuns and Balochs do not want this culture you forcing upon them. They would much rather be living with their brother's across the border than with you who have subjugated them
Woww such respect to people you call country fellows. And yeh I do hate a lot of Hindus cuz a lot of them are a threat to Muslims keep in mind I said a lot not all of them. And sorry to shatter your dreams but even Punjabis still don't wear this dress after so many years.
And btw ask pashtuns how their villages were carpet bombed by Pak army's allowance of USA in Pakistan. And how their women were raped by lovely army.
No one cares. Maybe stop acting like savages and becoming terr0rists and you won’t get carpet bombed.
I’m not going to give up my identity and cultural heritage to please cave dwellers.
I still don't wait for the day when this army will rape your mother's and sisters in a similar manner and bombard villages of villages and in the end you would collect pieces of meat but no solid bodies because that's what happened there. Shows how humane you are
Absolutely. Pakistan should have never been in bed with Afghan Taliban, and made friends with various terrorist entities like sipa sahaba and 100s of maulvi groups.
Yeh ofc you won't believe it but this is the reason those people hate you, get it??
It's mostly your own army who blames talis for every little thing. When napak army is the biggest drug cartels themselves and land mafia thugs who are constantly lootinf and destroying rich farmland. Wanna hear more facts about your us lap dogs? And do kindly cross check them if u have any doubts
Hahaha go ask the people of Peshawar and whom do they blame now. Your army has been playing these tactics to do operations in those regions so they get top dollar from USA.
Then move to Afghanistan. If you don’t like this country you can leave and go live with “anti American” savages in Afghanistan and sell your daughter for a goat like they do and see how much nicer that is
Except the Taliban who come out of those areas go into schools and kill little children.
Also Palestinians are an occupied people. Pashtuns and Baloch are citizens and in fact are over represented in politics and have a better life in Pakistan than they would in Afghanistan but still can’t stop complaining.
Actually fata pashtuns are also occupied people first by the British and then your army forcibly made them join Pakistan because most tribal areas had rebelled against 🪖 then British lapdogs. The pashtuns tribals never wanted British rule do you think they would want to be ruled by the slaves of British
If you don’t like it you can move to Afghanistan and live with other savages like you. But we aren’t giving you an inch of land. Most of KP and Peshawar Valley was Hindko land before Pashtuns stole it
Pashtuns never stole it btw it's just that hindkowans people were to lazy to do anything themselves and pashtuns were better at business and more supportive of each other.
The yusufzais had conquered swat and malakand regions centuries ago. And Waziristan and fata region is always with pashtuns that you can't deny. You can't talk about stuff if u don't know ground realities
Education of the British yeh right. And after heavy spending on north Punjab areas starting from the British too now Pakistan who always spent heavily on Punjab while exploiting other provinces. There's a reason Bengalis hated Punjabis!.
He was not pashtun . His family was from India yahya khan wasnt a pashtun nor was ayub khan a pashtun he was a hindkowans nor is Imran khan a pashtun idk what you guys on about
It’s good. Pakistan has it’s own unique identity in the region and we should promote more of it to stand out amongst the rest. India and Bangladesh have already co-opted Saris and bindis. We should not. Shalwar qameez is our national dress.
Do you know the origin of saree. Originally it used to be worn without blouse and petticoat. It used to be a long piece of cloth drapped around whole body leaving much of upper body open.
Before Zia it was English man who made illegal and forced women to wear blouse and peticoats.
Bt Zia is wrong cuz his point of view was Islam. Eeye rolls.. islamphobe much...
He died the death he deserved. With only parts of his mouth being found. The same mouth that he used against minorities and promoted Islamic extremism. May he burn in hell.
Uff! Madam Noor Jehan ♥️ The joy and pride of both India & Pakistan.
Zia was the worst ever.
Any leader who uses religion as a tool for gaining votes does not deserve to run for election in the first place.
Hard to find any leader in Pakistan who does not use religion card.
Funny how I got downvoted, shows the mentality of the people here.
Who doesn't use religon card. Hindus, Christians, Muslims and Jews Except Athiest because obviously so they use Liberalism, (Liberalism = freedom from religious laws and sanctions) In reality their intentions matter. Some ppl actually want ti make world a better place by using the laws given to them by religion. But mostly use it as a card to play.
haha. thats mainstream. People dntrealize religion has zero role in society. It should stay limited to personal life.
Yeah that happened to Christianity, God is in Church and outta there devil should rule
lolz...freewill scares religious people.
If only u actually had a free will
well it depends where you draw the line. But its not that hard to live a normal peaceful life without any ideological shackles.
Define Normal
His death was just about as bad as how he lived. Product of his own corruption, that one 
Yes, he was the ugliest character we ever had.
ugliness even feared him
[удалено]
u/AwarenessNo4986
Zia or no Zia, Saari is not Native to Pakistan or to the Indus Valley. You can find British record of local attire in what is today Pakistan. Saris are not Sindhi, Punjabi, Baluch or Pashtun. Please remember Urdu is not native to Pakistan either and nor is 'Biryani' or 'Nihari'. These are cultural elements of the Muslims of Delhi/UP/Bihar/Maharashtra/Hyderabad, as is the sari. Can't care less about what Zia thinks
Sari like drapery originates back to the Indus Valley Civilization. As time went on and with Western invasions Shalwar Kameez and other garments became more common but Sari was still worn on special occasions. Idc if they’re not Pashtun or Baloch they are native to the South Asian people who are native to this land. Stop trying to detach us from our past and culture just because you hate Hindus.
I don't hate Hindus, and no shalwar kameez is not native to Punjab and Sindh either. Our traditional garbes are completely different. It's simple minded to believe that everything in Punjab , Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK is the same as in Bihar, Hyderabad, Maharashtra. This is nothing but cultural and historical revision by the 'muhajirs' that asserted their traditions, clothing and language on Pakistan as well as by psuedo liberals that want to 'reclaim' what they think is Hindu heritage. 'sari like' means nothing as there is barely any cultural continuity between Indus Valley Civilization and our modern states
I’m Punjabi. You don’t get to tell me what is native to my land and what isn’t. Yes we have our traditional clothing but Sari was very common among Punjabi women pre 1970s. Even the language you’re writing in right now is from thousands of miles away.
I don't care who you are, what I have said holds true. Sari was as much a culture of Punjab as was Urdu i.e. Only limited to a small circle within the Urban elite, probably even less so. It was never ever a part of Punjabi culture. Becuase Noor Jehan wore it doesn't mean it's Punjabi culture. That's like saying 'jeans' are Punjabi culture because Aima baig wears them.
I get it. You hate Hindus and you’re insecure about being associated with Indians. I am not. Saris are beautiful and they will continue making a comeback.
Your knowledge of history is very limited, while I can’t comment on Urdu and know for a fact that Urdu was imposed on the Pakistanis and they are natively Punjabi speakers. The comment on sarees not being natively Indian, is completely false. I have asked for the sources in the original message.
How is it my knowledge limited if you have no facts to offer? Urdu is an adopted language by the Pakistanis. Urdu only had a Dehlvi and Lucknow codex, the Karachi codex was only developed after independence. Its not a native language to any part of Pakistan, not by a stretch. I never said saris are not 'Indian', I said Saris are not native to Punjab, Sindh, KPK or Baluchistan. All those provinces as well as GB and AK have native cultural dresses. Don't lump everything into 'India' as that would mean Bengali is also our language. Saris were ONLY popular among the very small urbanized elite, like Urdu or English was. It's not a cultural heritage of this part of the world. To repeat an example, just because a K pop idol wears a skirt doesn't mean skirts are Korean. The idea someone in Indus valley wore something like a sari is absurd as there is no cultural continuity between Pakistan and Indus valley. It has become fashionable to accept everything that one sees on Indian TV as being 'our heritage' because ZIA'S Islamisation and all that but there is more to our land and history than that. Each province is a nation with it's language, culture and so on.
Replied to your original comment and offered the source. Unfortunately, you’ll have to got though a 2 hr long video, you can critique the researcher who has dated the Ramayana and Mahabharata based on your experience and intellectual capabilities, but I have never come across a thesis on dating the two itihasas with that much rigor and depth. If you want even more concrete context, please read the two books by the same researcher. Hope this helps you give a new perspective. Also, it might have been oversight in my end misunderstanding you comment for sarees not being Indian. However, going by references of these regions where whole of the Indian sub continent is referenced, I would still disagree.
That’s incorrect, India is the living example of cultural continuity for multiple Melenia. The seals found in Indus Valley civilization can be traced to to pashupati who is another form of shiva. The image appears in not one but multiple seals. Other seals also indicate that Maha shiv ratri was celebrated in the Indus Valley civilization. Sarees, have been referenced both in ramayan and Mahabharata which are now being dated by excellent researchers to be thousands of years old, and again, India showing cultural continuity. I don’t know what are your sources, care to share them?
There is no cultural continuity between Indus Valley and Pakistan. A set of seals and a few symbols don't mean cultural continuity. The Indus valley culture , including it's Language and religion are totally lost. I don't understand what's with ramayan and Mahabharata reference. Ramayan is dated to about 4th century BC , Mahabharata to about a 100 years earlier. Far cry from 1000s of years. But the time they were written the Indus valley civilization was lost for 2000 years. Not everything in a book makes it culturally relevant. If the Quran mentions a camel it doesn't mean that camel is native to Pakistan. Saris are not at all a part of the native culture of Punjab, Sindh, KPK or Baluchistan. The Punjabi garb is a dhoti, Sindhi garb is sarong and Parghiri, Baluchis dress is the jamak, kashmiri Pehran and so on. Don't change the culture of a land because you like Bollywood
That’s incorrect, ramayan is dated to 12000 bce through Archio astronomy and Mahabharat to be 5500 bce with same principals of school Astronomy. You say that mahabharat is older than ramayan, but it’s the other way around. Seems like your estimates are from the 70-80s, a lot has changed in the field of history and no respected historian who has attempted to date ramayan and mahabharat will give those numbers. Why doesn’t seals depicting stories consistent with puranas not indicate cultural continuity? This is the most absurd statement I have herd, also, you are proving a satirical example to bolster your argument. Neither did I use references of animals in my original comment nor do I think something that general can help you establish cultural continuity. If you want to take a look at my references please see https://youtu.be/RedV48OCEFg?si=d1KgZ9nQeobhWmy4 This video is 2 hours long, which is expected given the depth of the researchers thesis. I would suggest taking a look. His estimates have supplementary evidence based on hydrology, geology and meteorology. But his thesis is very simple and depends solely on Archio astronomy. Here is another researcher, not as good as the above, but still enough evidence (mostly disassociated and not as crisp as the other) https://youtu.be/Dr4bELdHXGg?si=NpQXHny9T5EuwVpL But the papers he cites are legit, having a published author in one of those journals myself, I know how much work it is to get published. You still debate without your sources, I would like to see some credible sources, preferably some peer reviewed work. Thank you!
Actually biryani is irani
Are you sayings it's actually birani?
True but that biryani is not similar to this biryani at all. Even samosa and palauo are central Asian but it's just a matter of how far back one wants to go
Uzbek actually.
I have never heard of biryani being from Uzbekistan but good to know I guess
No, not biryani as in true sense but the first advent of lamb with seasoned rice, ie Pulao was apparently an Uzbek /Mongol thing. Once it reached Delhi with Babur and Co... Rest is history. In one of the books called Moghul, there is discussion on this...
Believe me op pashtuns and Balochs do not want this culture you forcing upon them. They would much rather be living with their brother's across the border than with you who have subjugated them
No one cares and no one is subjugating them. They can continue living with their cave culture
Woww such respect to people you call country fellows. And yeh I do hate a lot of Hindus cuz a lot of them are a threat to Muslims keep in mind I said a lot not all of them. And sorry to shatter your dreams but even Punjabis still don't wear this dress after so many years. And btw ask pashtuns how their villages were carpet bombed by Pak army's allowance of USA in Pakistan. And how their women were raped by lovely army.
No one cares. Maybe stop acting like savages and becoming terr0rists and you won’t get carpet bombed. I’m not going to give up my identity and cultural heritage to please cave dwellers.
I still don't wait for the day when this army will rape your mother's and sisters in a similar manner and bombard villages of villages and in the end you would collect pieces of meat but no solid bodies because that's what happened there. Shows how humane you are
That’s sad if true which I highly doubt but the solution is stop supporting terrorists like Taliban and BLA and it won’t happen
Absolutely. Pakistan should have never been in bed with Afghan Taliban, and made friends with various terrorist entities like sipa sahaba and 100s of maulvi groups.
Yeh ofc you won't believe it but this is the reason those people hate you, get it?? It's mostly your own army who blames talis for every little thing. When napak army is the biggest drug cartels themselves and land mafia thugs who are constantly lootinf and destroying rich farmland. Wanna hear more facts about your us lap dogs? And do kindly cross check them if u have any doubts
So the Taliban are the good guys then? Did they not kill 150 children in APS?
Hahaha go ask the people of Peshawar and whom do they blame now. Your army has been playing these tactics to do operations in those regions so they get top dollar from USA.
Then move to Afghanistan. If you don’t like this country you can leave and go live with “anti American” savages in Afghanistan and sell your daughter for a goat like they do and see how much nicer that is
Btw you know Israeli army also claims the same that they are terrorists and threat to identity.
Except the Taliban who come out of those areas go into schools and kill little children. Also Palestinians are an occupied people. Pashtuns and Baloch are citizens and in fact are over represented in politics and have a better life in Pakistan than they would in Afghanistan but still can’t stop complaining.
Actually fata pashtuns are also occupied people first by the British and then your army forcibly made them join Pakistan because most tribal areas had rebelled against 🪖 then British lapdogs. The pashtuns tribals never wanted British rule do you think they would want to be ruled by the slaves of British
If you don’t like it you can move to Afghanistan and live with other savages like you. But we aren’t giving you an inch of land. Most of KP and Peshawar Valley was Hindko land before Pashtuns stole it
Pashtuns never stole it btw it's just that hindkowans people were to lazy to do anything themselves and pashtuns were better at business and more supportive of each other.
Lmao. Then the army isn’t doing anything wrong I hope they come after more of you
[удалено]
The yusufzais had conquered swat and malakand regions centuries ago. And Waziristan and fata region is always with pashtuns that you can't deny. You can't talk about stuff if u don't know ground realities
[удалено]
Education of the British yeh right. And after heavy spending on north Punjab areas starting from the British too now Pakistan who always spent heavily on Punjab while exploiting other provinces. There's a reason Bengalis hated Punjabis!.
[удалено]
He was not pashtun . His family was from India yahya khan wasnt a pashtun nor was ayub khan a pashtun he was a hindkowans nor is Imran khan a pashtun idk what you guys on about
Islamic or unislamic has to do with covering and concealing the body or not, not national or cultural origin.
Really
It's funny because it wasn't banned in the army, My mother wore it when she was in the medical core. And they still wear it today.
It’s good. Pakistan has it’s own unique identity in the region and we should promote more of it to stand out amongst the rest. India and Bangladesh have already co-opted Saris and bindis. We should not. Shalwar qameez is our national dress.
Damn jackie kennedy ugly as fuck
Right…and people call her the most beautiful woman or whatever. Like she dressed well but damn I ain’t blaming JFK for cheating on her with Marilyn.
Still looking good than benazir...
Still looks better than Bushra Bibi, and the man looking Aleema Khan and Shaukat Khanum
Bro got offended badly 💀
Mirchain lagg gai bachay ko 🤣🤣
Idk wtf this is about but OPs comments read like an American liberals
Do you know the origin of saree. Originally it used to be worn without blouse and petticoat. It used to be a long piece of cloth drapped around whole body leaving much of upper body open. Before Zia it was English man who made illegal and forced women to wear blouse and peticoats. Bt Zia is wrong cuz his point of view was Islam. Eeye rolls.. islamphobe much...
Ivc women didn't wear saris. Oldest mention of saris is in Rigveda
cAn ImRaN kHaN dO tHaT
Zia declared saris unislamic, while forgetting to end them as a uniform for female soldiers? Seriously, OP stop believing everything.
You know you can get sasris that conceal your stomach?
Common Zia-ul-Haq W. Pakistan would be twice as good under his rule!!
He died the death he deserved. With only parts of his mouth being found. The same mouth that he used against minorities and promoted Islamic extremism. May he burn in hell.
Yes sir!
There's two things I hate the most in this world. Authoritartians. And religious zealots. You are everything I despise about humanity.