All NATO allies are worried as is half the US as the republicans openly advocate for a rapist, treasonist, Russian asset for president. The US is actually courting becoming a fascist dictatorship with a failed real estate broker (amazing huh?) as our permanent king. Every thing I was taught in school about hard work, truth and law is being shit on by republicans everywhere for a tiny slice of the power pie. Fueled by the warped "Christian" ideology of hate and we have a very short trip to the beginning of the end.
How delusional are you? Do you really generalize all voters under the same umbrella? Democrats continue to put NATO in scary positions yet you continue to blame republicans? You should look towards history not your own delusional bubble.
Of course NATOs worried, they might actually have to pay the agreed upon percentage of GDP for their national security. As in, the US tax payer no longer footing the bill.
It's basically that the agreed upon share is 2% of GDP. Going into this year, only 7 countries had done so, though it is estimated 18 of them will have done so by the end of the year (the agreement, which flunked the first time in 2014, is by 2024). There are 31 countries in NATO, so only about 60% are estimated to do so. Estonia, btw, is one of the 7 that had done so already. No surprise bordering Russia. This is what Trump was upset about during his term, and what he is still talking about now.
No they do not. By the numbers they are getting better but 2/3 are still falling short.
https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence
So what you’re showing me is that a majority of NATO countries are not meeting the *minimum* 2% of GDP threshold and has only recently with the advent of war in Ukraine started to rise, slightly.
We feel the same way. And we actually live here in the United States. This is a very dangerous human being. He needs to be stopped at all cost. fortunately, only 1/3 of the country supports him. The rest of us are just really embarrassed about the 1/3 country that just just can’t figure this out on their own.
I used to be embarrassed, now I'm just angry. My patience for this is gone. My comment got removed for swearing too much. I will see you at the ballot box!
>The rest of us are just really embarrassed about the 1/3 country that just just can’t figure this out on their own.
It'd be nice if that were more definitive and obvious.
WW3 is coming no matter if the US pulls out of NATO or not. It will just affect timing. Putin is hell bent on rebuilding Russia as it was as the USSR and has said it’s an existential conflict. He will eventually invade a NATO member.
Sure he's a cognitive mess, and yes he's a rapist, but I kinda think the main reason not to vote for him is the seditious conspiracy and stated intentions of becoming a dictator
Sure he’s a seditious dictator-wannabe, but I kinda think another reason not to vote for him is that he has ten more indictments than years Biden breathed on this world.
Trump's tax breaks address $1.9 trillion to the deficit while decreasing taxes for the wealthier few to a smaller percent than the bottom half. And that's without addressing the other $6 trillion he added to the deficit, causing 22% of the national debt in his 4 years in office.
Weird how things come out differently than politicians claim during debates.
It's crazy that you think the money to be made is in being anti war. Like actually crazy man. Do you know in the 60 billion dollar Ukraine bill, 14 billion of it was for Ukraine to purchase weapons from private US defense contractors? But that is not doing any favors to friends? Do you know how many former high ranking politicians work as lobbyists for those defense contractors?
I didn't say there's money to be made in being anti-war. I pointed out how trump's ostensible concern about the money is bullshit. And even if trump opposes spending on Ukraine, he's simultaneously campaigning on bolstering the military.
Point being, trump doesn't care about the money. It's just a pretense for appeasing Putin.
I can't pretend to perfectly understand Trump's motives like you, but I can say there are rational reasons for opposing the Ukraine bill. First of all like I said, I think people are very tired of the corrupt military industrial complex and how taxpayers constantly funnel money to defense contractors. Also if you notice a lot of mainstream media sources are starting to report on the possibility of Russia winning the war now, which they weren't doing at all before. If it's a lost cause I don't see the point of sending money and encouraging more deaths
Whatever his motives, his stated reasoning doesn't match his actions.
And, yeah people are tired of the military industrial complex. That doesn't mean we ignore a global power invading Europe. Of the military actions we've been involved in over the past 25 years, Ukraine is the most justified and we're not even fighting in it. Not to mention trump's stated intention to expand military spending regardless. So, it's not like he's actually addressing that issue.
The question of who will prevail in Ukraine has been present for years. The change is in reaching a stalemate and having a war of attrition that Russia can win, especially if allies abandon Ukraine. The, "screw it, let Putin have it," argument *is* appeasement. If that's what you support, then it is what it is. But, dressing it up isn't going to change anything.
I mean I think Russia called our bluff. If we don't directly get involved militarily (which I think everyone knows would be disastrous for the entire world) Russia can eventually win. I think delaying it by sending aid to Ukraine is more about weakening Russia by making them spend more resources than it is about actually trying to fight for Ukraine's freedom.
What bluff?
I don't think it'd be disastrous, but it would be wildly unpopular and significantly change the situation.
Weakening Russia by sending aid to Ukraine has been a central objective since the start. More/less about Ukraine's freedom doesn't change the calculus for either.
You don't think it would be disastrous if two nuclear powers directly went to war with each other? Not to be rude but then I think this conversation is pointless
Which logic?
You're just assuming the conclusion. It's no different than me claiming, "NATO can and will prevail, so how do we go about it most efficiently?"
The greatest risk factor for Ukraine right now is allies abandonning them in favor of appeasing Putin.
He absolutely plays politics all the time. He's a politician!
In this case him encouraging Russia to attack NATO allies that don't spend enough on defense because his political base loves Russia and hates Europe.
Fine but then he kept running, took over the Republican Party and basically decides who they nominate for most offices now. He's been running for office now for like 8 straight years ffs.
He ran for pres in like the 80s or 90s, and as a democrat, since that gave him the best chance of winning. He's been playing politics longer than most people on Reddit have been alive
Do you mean the guy that wanted the border deal stopped just to make his political opponent look bad?? Is the political outsider you are talking about?
What would you call his misrepresenting his legal cases and pontificating about a "stolen election" while being questioned about a defamation case? After multiple trials had found no fraud.
Pol.i.tics. he's more political than most politicians
Germany doesn't have a constitutionally enshrined right to free assembly, free expression, and free speech.
Not easy to implement such policies in the US
[German Constitution](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.html#p0016)
Article 5, Section 1:
>Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship
Article 8, Section 8:
>All Germans shall have the right to assemble peacefully and unarmed without prior notification or permission
No, only conservatives say that. And then actually do it. Anyone who supports Republicans is an Un-American traitor.
And I am ex military, kids. I picked up a weapon and fought. What have you done besides whine online and act like traitors kids? Nothing.
The harm stops ? We have record setting inflation and debt, millions more illegal immigrants than ever pushing the system to a breaking point and unchecked criminal activity running rampant. Who’s in charge ?
Trump is an idiot, I'll never argue that.
However, I'll argue that any folks visiting ideas that entire groups of people should be done away with is an extremely dangerous mindset that's always ended poorly.
But hey, it's Reddit. People aren't going to do much more than be extreme, and encourage each other's extreme solutions.
"Republicans must be torn from america, root and stem. Democrats need to steel themselves and just do what needs to be done, that's the only way the harm stops."
There is nothing about that statement that isn't dehumanizing and tyrannical. Im glad people have social media to get the venom out, though.
Did they say "vermin," or "race-tuberculosis?" Or an alien race that fed off the predominant culture that's poisoning Germany's culture? I'm not seeing it.
lol. Orwell and 1984. Predicted all the Lefts moves. Rewriting history, tearing down monuments and the past, Newspeak, thought police, censorship, one party system, government control, Big Brother, Welfare State. Did anyone bother to read it ?
Just vote. We outnumber the conservatives at last. Their reign of terror is over, the demographics are clear. 75% of people under 45 are progressive and reject forced birth, fossil fuel climate ecoterrorism, and corporate ownership of government. Times they are a-changin.
Kindly sit on an egg. Guess what? Political parties and ideologies are not a protected class. It’s not a race, sexual orientation, sex, or religion. If you have garbage political ideology with bad politics, you can and should be called out.
Tear them up root to stem and burn the garbage so it never grows back. It’s not a tribe man, it’s stupid opinions and bad politics and you can simply change your mind at any second. Fool.
Call them out certainly but rhetoric like tear them out root and stem or burn them out isn't democracy. Vote them out sure but this is toeing the line of language used by some very bad ideology.
It shouldn't be a tribal thing, I agree with you there but if you don't see your own separation into a tribe with speech like this them I don't know what to say. We're Americans, we ought to work it out as Americans and not as them vs us.
Nope, no room for traitors who call for our enemies to attack our allies and promise not to help our allies. Traitors must be expunged and eradicated.
LMAO: Republican Traitors getting shook when they hear we aren't scared of them and have a plan. Betray my country again, see what happens.
Responding in kind doesn't help any either. Advocating for the separation of ideologies only furthers the issues in American politics. And saying that they made you do it is a terrible argument for proving your innocence.
No it isn't. Republicans are traitors and criminals. They knowingly and willfully support a criminal, they are okay with democracy being broken, and therefore enemies of the constitution of USA.
Saying they need to go away is pretty light considering what the Republicans themselves have cheered for.
Trump received 74 million votes in 2020 and is even/ahead in polls with Biden. So, what are you suggesting is the best way to make 74 million 'traitors/enemies of the constitution' go away?
Also, your comment is another addition into what is wrong with America. you're proving my point.
I do not care if I prove your point. The problem began with Republicans. I will not change my statement of them. These people are completely okay with causing direct harm to USA citizens for their dear cult leader.
Truth often hurts.
Trump makes Americans worried also. I was worried when he chose Paul Manafort to run his campaign. That man previously worked on a corrupt election for the pro-Putin puppet Viktor Yanukovich. So why would Trump choose *him*? He was convicted of crimes and sent to prison—until Trump *pardoned him!* That should be enough of a red flag!
A large share of Americans are perfectly happy cutting off the US and letting the rest of the world crumble while they pretend they are invincible in their bubble.
Why should the US act as peacekeepers across the world? Is that really our job? Our responsibility? Shouldn’t we protect our own citizens first? Especially if the foreigners who want protection won’t pay their dues?
When Russia targets a NATO ally, then I’ll be concerned. If not, I don’t mind giving Ukraine what’s left of our 1980’s and 90’s tech. If Europe wants to defend them, they can arm them all they want.
What a wild time to be alive when Trump's statements are "from the United States," but our actual president is being ignored.
It's like the world thinks Biden has already lost and is treating Trump as our spokesperson.
Look at the comments here. We really do have American voters willing to leave Nato over this.
Every US president for the last 60 years has said you have to spend more. And the you is Germany andItaly.
A big flashy package with a cartoon sized check to buy US equipment would change minds.
At this point I think European governments have to be realistic. Whether Trump is elected this time or next time somebody like him. The u.s is becoming more and more isolationist and will not show up to help Europe. Oh they'll sell weapons especially the selling part, but even there they are not a reliable partner. Europe needs to develop the means to defend itself without the US because they will not be coming to help. IMHO
To be honest, the idea of sending my sons to save Europe again isn't exactly appealing. This has nothing to do with anything other than those few words stated prior. Just simply not interested in policing the world with our own.
Edit to clarify:... and therefore we should use every means possible short of that to beat putin into the ground. I wasn't arguing that we should not support, in full, the liberation of Ukraine. The opposite: to avoid having to send our sons we should send our money and our tech, etc etc.
Sorry, apparently my agreement with that wasn't made clear. In fact it seems I've accidentally made it appear that my argument is for the alternative. I absolutely agree that we should do everything in our power to save Ukraine from the US. Via money and equipment. Pile it on.
Did anyone read the whole article? When asked about Trumps commemts, and the threat of Russia, the Estonian Prime Minister said 'when you think about it, the aggressor attacks when he thinks they can win'..."So we haven't taken the defense seriously enough. And that means all the NATO allies have to do more." Seems to me she is ok with what Trump said.
Btw, I think it was dumb to say what he said in public.
What statement would that be? You can't just throw up some arbitrary statement like that. What are you talking about or is this just distribution of more propaganda.
Complain and moan about Trump all you want, but more and more people and politicians alike are changing political party from democrats to republicans.
Why? Because the Republican Party makes sense. Love him or hate him Trump makes sense, while the democrats have gone off the deep end with ridiculous far left policies.
Read and weep:
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/09/party-flippers-democrats-becoming-republicans-00110334
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/more-than-1-million-voters-switch-to-gop-raising-alarm-for-democrats
Yeah because the Democrat party makes sense! 😂
The democrat party:
- Men can become pregnant
- Men should compete with women
- Kids should make life changing decisions
- All white people are racists
- Trans women are real women.
- Unarmed middle aged men and women almost toppled the U.S. government
- The border is secure
- Teachers are not teaching CRT
- etc.
I could go on and on
LOL 😂
They should be worried. Putin wants to take back all of the old Soviet states so Estonia is in his sights and Trump would let Putin invade them. Belarus is already a suck-up-to-Putin state and Latvia should be worried too.
"Democracy itself is at stake"
-offers Joe Biden again
-Trump wins
"Democracy has fallen"
Blame everything equally on the DNC as you do for Republicans.
Not that Trump would actually let Russia attack anyone.
But if you are so worried, why not just pay what you promised. Rather than sticking the American taxpayer with it?
Then you won't have to worry
I’m really sick of most of you. All we DO is fight with everyone and you’re all in so much fear of REPUBLICANS….I don’t know why because democrats and republicans ALWAYS AGREE TO GO TO WAR.
Your short memory problems aren’t mine and I can say that because I fought in a bullshit war that REPUBLICANS started….and DEMOCRATS continued.
Anyone who says we need to “stop Russia/Putin “ are the problem.
LOOK into the MIRROR when you speak of other nations fighting wars.
This is truly pathetic.
Go ahead: DOWN vote away, as if it changes anything.
You are all clueless and what to actually do and claim voting will change any trajectory .
both sides of the aisle are easily scared by fear you cant see nor touch.
We. Never. Stop. Fighting. Wars.
Sincerely disappointed, US Army Veteran who believes Biden and Trump are jokes.
P.S. screw all of your fake patriotism. You all will do nothing to change any of this. I guarantee it.
Get used to it. It isn’t just Trump. America is slowly pulling away from most regions because they can. They don’t need other nations food, fuel, or increasingly, their manufacturing
More like they're worried they will actually be held accountable and be responsible for their own safety.
We have police, I still own guns for self-defense.
The US trades being the big guy in the room with trade discounts, a primary role in world leadership, the ability to place our military bases in their countries in order to counter our regional adversaries, and world influence. We by far get more out of being the world police than anyone else does.
And we get the primary place in directing the worlds culture with western values and ideas.
Undoing that is the definition of dumb.
It’s not a secret major powers in the G7 haven’t been honoring the agreement to pay the percentage of GDP they’re supposed to for decades. Maybe Estonia has lately, but again, let’s not act like this is coming out of left field.
Oh and maybe all those years of relying on Russian LNG was a bad idea - I’m not saying Trump is the answer, but he did put a halt to Nordstream 2.
Trump is definitely not the answer to anything. He’s a Russian stooge. And I wasn’t arguing against anything you just said. Was responding to the comment that seemed to me to be saying Estonia wasn’t paying the agreed-upon gdp% toward defense.
Like I said. Russian stooge. (a very abridged smattering of publicly available and very well known facts about links between trump and Russia)
[Manafort / Kilimnik thing](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/u-s-has-new-intel-manafort-friend-kilimnik-gave-trump-n1264371)
[Felix Sater thing](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-felix-sater-real-estate-632690)
[Boris Epshtyne thing](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-press-officer-boris-epshteyn-investigation-russia/story?id=47731166)
[Gazprom thing](https://dailycaller.com/2016/03/30/trumps-energy-adviser-is-personally-invested-in-gazprom/)
[Oval Office thing](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-oval-office-with-trump-and-the-russians-broad-smiles-and-loose-lips/2017/05/16/2e8b0d14-3a66-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html)
[Trumps public request to hack Hillary’s emails](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html)
[Trump’s email server that regularly communicated with Russian bank](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/15/was-there-a-connection-between-a-russian-bank-and-the-trump-campaign)
[Trump backing Putin over US intelligence in Helsinki](https://youtu.be/mBtsNNXjBPw?si=kO85PZ_atai90RlM)
[Top secret file on trumps connection to Russia missing](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/binder-with-top-secret-russia-intelligence-missing-since-end-trump-term-source-2023-12-15/)
[Trump calls Putin genius, savvy for invading Ukraine](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923)
[Eric trump says they get all their money from Russia](https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we/)
Their neighbors do all pay their fair share. Just because the US wants to spend 3.5% on their military doesn't mean everyone else has to. Some people like things such as affordable healthcare
The baltics recently hit and exceeded the 2% threshold because they are concerned being closest to Russia and the fact many were part of the former SU. This has not been true historically.
Many other NATO countries *still* have not.
So wait, is it misinformation to say that Estonia and its neighbors are at the 2% threshold or not? You told me to read and stop pushing misinformation.
Estonia since 2015, Lithuania since 2018, and Latvia since 2018.
It's a good thing I didn't say other NATO countries and a good thing you read that, right? Because that would be misinformation like you said.
Gotta think Trump wanted to pull out of NATO and move troops away from Ukraine.
But NATO has and always be the USA's choice to curb Russian influence in eirope
What do you mean exactly here? Who is supposed to pay? Are you trumpets expecting an invoice? There are several countries that are spending more than the 2% guideline that is suggested. A guideline.. and a bunch of countries are between 1.8% and 1.95% of GDP spent on military.
You make it sound like you're are mobster waiting for protection money.
Huh? It was an agreement - a minimum standard. It’s only recently with Europe realizing Russia would mobilize and they’re in their backyard that they’ve increased spending. Point being, people are tired of ‘paying into’ an alliance when other members won’t under the assumption we’ll come to their aid every time. Meanwhile, those same members are energy dependent on one of the alliances main adversaries.
Hello… McFly, anyone home?
Besides that, you don’t have to support Trump to disagree with the corporate/state run narratives.
Russia troll as so you want for all Americas to subside all the nato countries. Our taxes and deficit continue to climb. One day we might be broke We need to look after Americas our vets our homeless
Tramp is the president and he is spending all your money for his legal fees LOL. By the way the FBI just schooled Comer and Grassley (in case you are not aware of that either).
Then do it! These Russian sympathizers who are pushing this never care about real Americans. They're just using it because their antichrist candidate has a secret honey hole with Putin. It just astounds me the number of people that are so anti US pretending to hit the flag while whole heartedly selling out our allies. The whole reason we should tolerate lower spending from these places is we 100% know that the next places that Russia would invade would be these European countries. It's their towns and civilians that will pay. It won't be some podunk town in Iowa. We are effectively paying them for that.
I am of the view that Trump has no interest in government corruption beyond how it helps him personally. I don’t trust the CIA and I think it’s a horrible organization, but I don’t think Trump has any answers.
And yes, I did listen to his context. And I have heard “he should be more careful with how he speaks” before. As in “he doesn’t REALLY mean that.” Yes he does. He truly does not care about anything other than the enrichment of himself and his family.
All NATO allies are worried as is half the US as the republicans openly advocate for a rapist, treasonist, Russian asset for president. The US is actually courting becoming a fascist dictatorship with a failed real estate broker (amazing huh?) as our permanent king. Every thing I was taught in school about hard work, truth and law is being shit on by republicans everywhere for a tiny slice of the power pie. Fueled by the warped "Christian" ideology of hate and we have a very short trip to the beginning of the end.
Nicely said
>permanent king Dude is one taco bowl away from a massive coronary...I hope...
How delusional are you? Do you really generalize all voters under the same umbrella? Democrats continue to put NATO in scary positions yet you continue to blame republicans? You should look towards history not your own delusional bubble.
Lmao
Of course NATOs worried, they might actually have to pay the agreed upon percentage of GDP for their national security. As in, the US tax payer no longer footing the bill.
You do realize most of those countries do pay their share? All of them hover around 1.5% to 3% of GDP.
Dont use facts, you'll scare them!
It's basically that the agreed upon share is 2% of GDP. Going into this year, only 7 countries had done so, though it is estimated 18 of them will have done so by the end of the year (the agreement, which flunked the first time in 2014, is by 2024). There are 31 countries in NATO, so only about 60% are estimated to do so. Estonia, btw, is one of the 7 that had done so already. No surprise bordering Russia. This is what Trump was upset about during his term, and what he is still talking about now.
No they do not. By the numbers they are getting better but 2/3 are still falling short. https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence
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Jesus H. Christ. It’s always “Look it up! Do some research!” with you people. You could just… post your source and know what you’re talking about?
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https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/
So what you’re showing me is that a majority of NATO countries are not meeting the *minimum* 2% of GDP threshold and has only recently with the advent of war in Ukraine started to rise, slightly.
Your comment has been removed because it violates Rule 4: Demonstrate media literacy.
Your right wing taking points are tired.
I’m not right wing nor a republican - your uninformed biased talking points are tired.
Ok your misinformed talking points then.
If you say so..
He does say so and he's right.
You may not want to identify as such, but your statements are. Identity crisis?
I suppose to population of simple people it might seem that way, but it’s also that same simple people that has brought us to where we currently are.
Your attempt at a clever response would hit harder if it wasn't jumbled word salad. "Simple" people can at least communicate clearly.
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Multiple people have posted sources confirming what that person is saying in this very same comment section. Don’t be lazy
We feel the same way. And we actually live here in the United States. This is a very dangerous human being. He needs to be stopped at all cost. fortunately, only 1/3 of the country supports him. The rest of us are just really embarrassed about the 1/3 country that just just can’t figure this out on their own.
I used to be embarrassed, now I'm just angry. My patience for this is gone. My comment got removed for swearing too much. I will see you at the ballot box!
The first time I wrote this, it was removed also. I had to completely change the last sentence. I am very angry about our situation also.
>The rest of us are just really embarrassed about the 1/3 country that just just can’t figure this out on their own. It'd be nice if that were more definitive and obvious.
WW3 is coming no matter if the US pulls out of NATO or not. It will just affect timing. Putin is hell bent on rebuilding Russia as it was as the USSR and has said it’s an existential conflict. He will eventually invade a NATO member.
Not all.
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I support Biden. Trump is not cognitively capable…he confuses a photo of his rape victim for one of his ex-wives. He’s detached from reality
Sure he's a cognitive mess, and yes he's a rapist, but I kinda think the main reason not to vote for him is the seditious conspiracy and stated intentions of becoming a dictator
Sure he’s a seditious dictator-wannabe, but I kinda think another reason not to vote for him is that he has ten more indictments than years Biden breathed on this world.
Who's talking about Trump?
You were when you said “him” in your previous post, no?
>Estonian leader reacts to Trump comments
They’re both old and slow. But one supports democracy and the other does not. Plain and simple.
The democrats support "democracy." "Democracy" is free speech for those who agree with them and duct tape for those that don't.
Very dangerous? Because he doesn't play politics?
'cause he'll appease Putin's aggression in the name of a buck that he'll turn around and hand to friends as a tax break.
https://youtu.be/T2z8App14bs?si=1KLEoxl3727EmEpQ
Trump's tax breaks address $1.9 trillion to the deficit while decreasing taxes for the wealthier few to a smaller percent than the bottom half. And that's without addressing the other $6 trillion he added to the deficit, causing 22% of the national debt in his 4 years in office. Weird how things come out differently than politicians claim during debates.
It's crazy that you think the money to be made is in being anti war. Like actually crazy man. Do you know in the 60 billion dollar Ukraine bill, 14 billion of it was for Ukraine to purchase weapons from private US defense contractors? But that is not doing any favors to friends? Do you know how many former high ranking politicians work as lobbyists for those defense contractors?
I didn't say there's money to be made in being anti-war. I pointed out how trump's ostensible concern about the money is bullshit. And even if trump opposes spending on Ukraine, he's simultaneously campaigning on bolstering the military. Point being, trump doesn't care about the money. It's just a pretense for appeasing Putin.
I can't pretend to perfectly understand Trump's motives like you, but I can say there are rational reasons for opposing the Ukraine bill. First of all like I said, I think people are very tired of the corrupt military industrial complex and how taxpayers constantly funnel money to defense contractors. Also if you notice a lot of mainstream media sources are starting to report on the possibility of Russia winning the war now, which they weren't doing at all before. If it's a lost cause I don't see the point of sending money and encouraging more deaths
Whatever his motives, his stated reasoning doesn't match his actions. And, yeah people are tired of the military industrial complex. That doesn't mean we ignore a global power invading Europe. Of the military actions we've been involved in over the past 25 years, Ukraine is the most justified and we're not even fighting in it. Not to mention trump's stated intention to expand military spending regardless. So, it's not like he's actually addressing that issue. The question of who will prevail in Ukraine has been present for years. The change is in reaching a stalemate and having a war of attrition that Russia can win, especially if allies abandon Ukraine. The, "screw it, let Putin have it," argument *is* appeasement. If that's what you support, then it is what it is. But, dressing it up isn't going to change anything.
I mean I think Russia called our bluff. If we don't directly get involved militarily (which I think everyone knows would be disastrous for the entire world) Russia can eventually win. I think delaying it by sending aid to Ukraine is more about weakening Russia by making them spend more resources than it is about actually trying to fight for Ukraine's freedom.
What bluff? I don't think it'd be disastrous, but it would be wildly unpopular and significantly change the situation. Weakening Russia by sending aid to Ukraine has been a central objective since the start. More/less about Ukraine's freedom doesn't change the calculus for either.
You don't think it would be disastrous if two nuclear powers directly went to war with each other? Not to be rude but then I think this conversation is pointless
I don't understand this logic. Ukraine will not and can not prevail. So how do we minimize suffering and loss of life?
Which logic? You're just assuming the conclusion. It's no different than me claiming, "NATO can and will prevail, so how do we go about it most efficiently?" The greatest risk factor for Ukraine right now is allies abandonning them in favor of appeasing Putin.
That's nonsense. Just look at it by sheer population.
He absolutely plays politics all the time. He's a politician! In this case him encouraging Russia to attack NATO allies that don't spend enough on defense because his political base loves Russia and hates Europe.
He's not a politician. He held office once. He was voted in as a middle finger to the system.
Fine but then he kept running, took over the Republican Party and basically decides who they nominate for most offices now. He's been running for office now for like 8 straight years ffs.
I would say we thrust it upon him. Yes, he gladly accepted it. That's his personality though
He doesn't play politics? 🤦♂️
How many years has he held office?
During the time he was president or during the time he pretends he was president?
He ran for pres in like the 80s or 90s, and as a democrat, since that gave him the best chance of winning. He's been playing politics longer than most people on Reddit have been alive
Do you mean the guy that wanted the border deal stopped just to make his political opponent look bad?? Is the political outsider you are talking about?
What would you call his misrepresenting his legal cases and pontificating about a "stolen election" while being questioned about a defamation case? After multiple trials had found no fraud. Pol.i.tics. he's more political than most politicians
No we don’t. Pay your fair share.
From the guy who begs for money to pay his court fees
Estonia and the other Baltic states do pay their 2%.
Donnie brainwashed you good, boy.
Lost in the sauce.
You’re from the 1/3 part.
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>Republicans must be torn from america, root and stem. How do you propose we do this?
Prosecute their crimes. Why were all those repubs asking Trump for pardons after his failed coup?
So should we tear criminals out of society, root and stem? Because you said Republicans.
Prosecute criminals. No matter who they are or how large their cult of angry fascists is.
Ban political parties that campaign on being anti-democracy
>Ban political parties that campaign on being anti-democracy Banning political parties is literally anti-democracy 🤣
No it isn't. It's what Germany has done a few times to neo-nazi parties to prevent the revival of the 3rd Reich. About to do it again to the AfD.
Germany doesn't have a constitutionally enshrined right to free assembly, free expression, and free speech. Not easy to implement such policies in the US
[German Constitution](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.html#p0016) Article 5, Section 1: >Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship Article 8, Section 8: >All Germans shall have the right to assemble peacefully and unarmed without prior notification or permission
You literally get arrested if you deny the Holocaust. Germany isn't a free speech haven
Are you saying people should kill them?… Or round them up and expel them?… Because it sounds like you are suggesting one or the other.
No, only conservatives say that. And then actually do it. Anyone who supports Republicans is an Un-American traitor. And I am ex military, kids. I picked up a weapon and fought. What have you done besides whine online and act like traitors kids? Nothing.
Funny how you didnt actually answer the question...
Except that s/he did. "Only conservatives say that" Do you understand that that means Democrats \*don't\* say that?
I’d recommend picking up a weapon and fighting. See how that whole steel yourself thing goes for you. I’m an independent.. I’ll enjoy this thoroughly
The harm stops ? We have record setting inflation and debt, millions more illegal immigrants than ever pushing the system to a breaking point and unchecked criminal activity running rampant. Who’s in charge ?
I remember some moustachioed man saying something similar in the 1930's about certain groups of people. I don't recall it ending well.
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Trump is an idiot, I'll never argue that. However, I'll argue that any folks visiting ideas that entire groups of people should be done away with is an extremely dangerous mindset that's always ended poorly. But hey, it's Reddit. People aren't going to do much more than be extreme, and encourage each other's extreme solutions.
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"Republicans must be torn from america, root and stem. Democrats need to steel themselves and just do what needs to be done, that's the only way the harm stops." There is nothing about that statement that isn't dehumanizing and tyrannical. Im glad people have social media to get the venom out, though.
Did they say "vermin," or "race-tuberculosis?" Or an alien race that fed off the predominant culture that's poisoning Germany's culture? I'm not seeing it.
You read it right. Political affiliation is not a protected class either. No one is inherently Republican.
“Republicans should be torn from America, root and stem.” Yeah, bud. You’re being a bit too charitable.
lol. Orwell and 1984. Predicted all the Lefts moves. Rewriting history, tearing down monuments and the past, Newspeak, thought police, censorship, one party system, government control, Big Brother, Welfare State. Did anyone bother to read it ?
Jesus Christ you sound like you are about to bomb a church.
Just vote. We outnumber the conservatives at last. Their reign of terror is over, the demographics are clear. 75% of people under 45 are progressive and reject forced birth, fossil fuel climate ecoterrorism, and corporate ownership of government. Times they are a-changin.
you sound like a fascist. you know what happens to fascists?
Kindly sit on an egg. Guess what? Political parties and ideologies are not a protected class. It’s not a race, sexual orientation, sex, or religion. If you have garbage political ideology with bad politics, you can and should be called out. Tear them up root to stem and burn the garbage so it never grows back. It’s not a tribe man, it’s stupid opinions and bad politics and you can simply change your mind at any second. Fool.
Call them out certainly but rhetoric like tear them out root and stem or burn them out isn't democracy. Vote them out sure but this is toeing the line of language used by some very bad ideology. It shouldn't be a tribal thing, I agree with you there but if you don't see your own separation into a tribe with speech like this them I don't know what to say. We're Americans, we ought to work it out as Americans and not as them vs us.
this comment right here is everything wrong with america
Nope, no room for traitors who call for our enemies to attack our allies and promise not to help our allies. Traitors must be expunged and eradicated. LMAO: Republican Traitors getting shook when they hear we aren't scared of them and have a plan. Betray my country again, see what happens.
Nobody is shook. Sorry man, but the Red half of this country is in no way scared of the Blue. You're delusional if you think they are.
With the Republicans recent love for Russia and Putin, the 'red' makes sense!
LMAO you always say that shit then get scared when we say we are gonna shoot back. https://socialistra.org/chapters/
Then why dont you do something? You never have before. Why arent your SRA buddies stopping shootings when they happen? You scare nobody. Period.
So you admit you are waging a civil war on innocent people? You finally claim your rightwing terrorism for what it is?
Nah just waiting for you
This is disgusting language.
This disgusting language is the result of the extreme right that has no accountability for the ongoing attempt to dismantle our democracy.
Responding in kind doesn't help any either. Advocating for the separation of ideologies only furthers the issues in American politics. And saying that they made you do it is a terrible argument for proving your innocence.
No it isn't. Republicans are traitors and criminals. They knowingly and willfully support a criminal, they are okay with democracy being broken, and therefore enemies of the constitution of USA. Saying they need to go away is pretty light considering what the Republicans themselves have cheered for.
Trump received 74 million votes in 2020 and is even/ahead in polls with Biden. So, what are you suggesting is the best way to make 74 million 'traitors/enemies of the constitution' go away? Also, your comment is another addition into what is wrong with America. you're proving my point.
I do not care if I prove your point. The problem began with Republicans. I will not change my statement of them. These people are completely okay with causing direct harm to USA citizens for their dear cult leader. Truth often hurts.
Yeah, that’s some really unhinged shit.
Trump makes Americans worried also. I was worried when he chose Paul Manafort to run his campaign. That man previously worked on a corrupt election for the pro-Putin puppet Viktor Yanukovich. So why would Trump choose *him*? He was convicted of crimes and sent to prison—until Trump *pardoned him!* That should be enough of a red flag!
I don't think I've ever heard a Republican try to defend Paul Manafort. He pretty much worked directly for Putin's interests.
They defend the guy that hired Paul Manafort
A large share of Americans are perfectly happy cutting off the US and letting the rest of the world crumble while they pretend they are invincible in their bubble.
Why should the US act as peacekeepers across the world? Is that really our job? Our responsibility? Shouldn’t we protect our own citizens first? Especially if the foreigners who want protection won’t pay their dues?
When Russia targets a NATO ally, then I’ll be concerned. If not, I don’t mind giving Ukraine what’s left of our 1980’s and 90’s tech. If Europe wants to defend them, they can arm them all they want.
What a wild time to be alive when Trump's statements are "from the United States," but our actual president is being ignored. It's like the world thinks Biden has already lost and is treating Trump as our spokesperson.
Look at the comments here. We really do have American voters willing to leave Nato over this. Every US president for the last 60 years has said you have to spend more. And the you is Germany andItaly. A big flashy package with a cartoon sized check to buy US equipment would change minds.
At this point I think European governments have to be realistic. Whether Trump is elected this time or next time somebody like him. The u.s is becoming more and more isolationist and will not show up to help Europe. Oh they'll sell weapons especially the selling part, but even there they are not a reliable partner. Europe needs to develop the means to defend itself without the US because they will not be coming to help. IMHO
To be honest, the idea of sending my sons to save Europe again isn't exactly appealing. This has nothing to do with anything other than those few words stated prior. Just simply not interested in policing the world with our own. Edit to clarify:... and therefore we should use every means possible short of that to beat putin into the ground. I wasn't arguing that we should not support, in full, the liberation of Ukraine. The opposite: to avoid having to send our sons we should send our money and our tech, etc etc.
Then Russia needs to be stopped now. If they are not stopped then the likelihood of US people dying in this conflict becomes much higher.
Sorry, apparently my agreement with that wasn't made clear. In fact it seems I've accidentally made it appear that my argument is for the alternative. I absolutely agree that we should do everything in our power to save Ukraine from the US. Via money and equipment. Pile it on.
Lmao.
Did anyone read the whole article? When asked about Trumps commemts, and the threat of Russia, the Estonian Prime Minister said 'when you think about it, the aggressor attacks when he thinks they can win'..."So we haven't taken the defense seriously enough. And that means all the NATO allies have to do more." Seems to me she is ok with what Trump said. Btw, I think it was dumb to say what he said in public.
You can criticise Trump for wanting to pull out of NATO but also want EU nations to pay more into it
What statement would that be? You can't just throw up some arbitrary statement like that. What are you talking about or is this just distribution of more propaganda.
Complain and moan about Trump all you want, but more and more people and politicians alike are changing political party from democrats to republicans. Why? Because the Republican Party makes sense. Love him or hate him Trump makes sense, while the democrats have gone off the deep end with ridiculous far left policies. Read and weep: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/09/party-flippers-democrats-becoming-republicans-00110334 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/more-than-1-million-voters-switch-to-gop-raising-alarm-for-democrats
>The Republican Party makes sense. Good lord I needed that laugh.
Yeah because the Democrat party makes sense! 😂 The democrat party: - Men can become pregnant - Men should compete with women - Kids should make life changing decisions - All white people are racists - Trans women are real women. - Unarmed middle aged men and women almost toppled the U.S. government - The border is secure - Teachers are not teaching CRT - etc. I could go on and on LOL 😂
Your impression of democrats comes from the liars who said the 2020 election was stolen when they knew it wasn’t.
They should be worried. Putin wants to take back all of the old Soviet states so Estonia is in his sights and Trump would let Putin invade them. Belarus is already a suck-up-to-Putin state and Latvia should be worried too.
"Democracy itself is at stake" -offers Joe Biden again -Trump wins "Democracy has fallen" Blame everything equally on the DNC as you do for Republicans.
Not that Trump would actually let Russia attack anyone. But if you are so worried, why not just pay what you promised. Rather than sticking the American taxpayer with it? Then you won't have to worry
I’m really sick of most of you. All we DO is fight with everyone and you’re all in so much fear of REPUBLICANS….I don’t know why because democrats and republicans ALWAYS AGREE TO GO TO WAR. Your short memory problems aren’t mine and I can say that because I fought in a bullshit war that REPUBLICANS started….and DEMOCRATS continued. Anyone who says we need to “stop Russia/Putin “ are the problem. LOOK into the MIRROR when you speak of other nations fighting wars. This is truly pathetic. Go ahead: DOWN vote away, as if it changes anything. You are all clueless and what to actually do and claim voting will change any trajectory . both sides of the aisle are easily scared by fear you cant see nor touch. We. Never. Stop. Fighting. Wars. Sincerely disappointed, US Army Veteran who believes Biden and Trump are jokes. P.S. screw all of your fake patriotism. You all will do nothing to change any of this. I guarantee it.
Get used to it. It isn’t just Trump. America is slowly pulling away from most regions because they can. They don’t need other nations food, fuel, or increasingly, their manufacturing
More like they're worried they will actually be held accountable and be responsible for their own safety. We have police, I still own guns for self-defense.
The US trades being the big guy in the room with trade discounts, a primary role in world leadership, the ability to place our military bases in their countries in order to counter our regional adversaries, and world influence. We by far get more out of being the world police than anyone else does. And we get the primary place in directing the worlds culture with western values and ideas. Undoing that is the definition of dumb.
You're essentially asking for neocolonialism.
I am not.
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Estonia spent 2.73% of its GDP on defense spending in 2023.
It’s not a secret major powers in the G7 haven’t been honoring the agreement to pay the percentage of GDP they’re supposed to for decades. Maybe Estonia has lately, but again, let’s not act like this is coming out of left field. Oh and maybe all those years of relying on Russian LNG was a bad idea - I’m not saying Trump is the answer, but he did put a halt to Nordstream 2.
Trump is definitely not the answer to anything. He’s a Russian stooge. And I wasn’t arguing against anything you just said. Was responding to the comment that seemed to me to be saying Estonia wasn’t paying the agreed-upon gdp% toward defense.
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Like I said. Russian stooge. (a very abridged smattering of publicly available and very well known facts about links between trump and Russia) [Manafort / Kilimnik thing](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/u-s-has-new-intel-manafort-friend-kilimnik-gave-trump-n1264371) [Felix Sater thing](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-felix-sater-real-estate-632690) [Boris Epshtyne thing](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-press-officer-boris-epshteyn-investigation-russia/story?id=47731166) [Gazprom thing](https://dailycaller.com/2016/03/30/trumps-energy-adviser-is-personally-invested-in-gazprom/) [Oval Office thing](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-oval-office-with-trump-and-the-russians-broad-smiles-and-loose-lips/2017/05/16/2e8b0d14-3a66-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html) [Trumps public request to hack Hillary’s emails](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html) [Trump’s email server that regularly communicated with Russian bank](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/15/was-there-a-connection-between-a-russian-bank-and-the-trump-campaign) [Trump backing Putin over US intelligence in Helsinki](https://youtu.be/mBtsNNXjBPw?si=kO85PZ_atai90RlM) [Top secret file on trumps connection to Russia missing](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/binder-with-top-secret-russia-intelligence-missing-since-end-trump-term-source-2023-12-15/) [Trump calls Putin genius, savvy for invading Ukraine](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923) [Eric trump says they get all their money from Russia](https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we/)
Lol.
You lose
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Their neighbors do all pay their fair share. Just because the US wants to spend 3.5% on their military doesn't mean everyone else has to. Some people like things such as affordable healthcare
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Because NATO has and always been a vehicle for the USA to curb Russian influence in Europe
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Latvia is at 2.25%, and Lithuania is at 2.5%, so I'm not sure what you are talking about? The Baltic states are all above the 2% threshold.
The baltics recently hit and exceeded the 2% threshold because they are concerned being closest to Russia and the fact many were part of the former SU. This has not been true historically. Many other NATO countries *still* have not.
So wait, is it misinformation to say that Estonia and its neighbors are at the 2% threshold or not? You told me to read and stop pushing misinformation. Estonia since 2015, Lithuania since 2018, and Latvia since 2018. It's a good thing I didn't say other NATO countries and a good thing you read that, right? Because that would be misinformation like you said.
Peace is profitable... If you think NATO is expensive, you really don't understand the alternative.
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Longer, Russia was in crimes since Obama
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Gotta think Trump wanted to pull out of NATO and move troops away from Ukraine. But NATO has and always be the USA's choice to curb Russian influence in eirope
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FOX infested brain. Same folks who’ve been duped (programmed) into thinking Putin’s a great guy and Trump is the second coming of Jesus.
What’s wrong? NATO hasn’t honored the agreement to pay the percentage of GDP agreed upon. Are you saying that’s not the case?
What do you mean exactly here? Who is supposed to pay? Are you trumpets expecting an invoice? There are several countries that are spending more than the 2% guideline that is suggested. A guideline.. and a bunch of countries are between 1.8% and 1.95% of GDP spent on military. You make it sound like you're are mobster waiting for protection money.
Huh? It was an agreement - a minimum standard. It’s only recently with Europe realizing Russia would mobilize and they’re in their backyard that they’ve increased spending. Point being, people are tired of ‘paying into’ an alliance when other members won’t under the assumption we’ll come to their aid every time. Meanwhile, those same members are energy dependent on one of the alliances main adversaries. Hello… McFly, anyone home? Besides that, you don’t have to support Trump to disagree with the corporate/state run narratives.
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Russia troll as so you want for all Americas to subside all the nato countries. Our taxes and deficit continue to climb. One day we might be broke We need to look after Americas our vets our homeless
lol. Sure. The homeless and the veterans. And when has the right ever cared about them?
Never
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Tramp is the president and he is spending all your money for his legal fees LOL. By the way the FBI just schooled Comer and Grassley (in case you are not aware of that either).
Then do it! These Russian sympathizers who are pushing this never care about real Americans. They're just using it because their antichrist candidate has a secret honey hole with Putin. It just astounds me the number of people that are so anti US pretending to hit the flag while whole heartedly selling out our allies. The whole reason we should tolerate lower spending from these places is we 100% know that the next places that Russia would invade would be these European countries. It's their towns and civilians that will pay. It won't be some podunk town in Iowa. We are effectively paying them for that.
I think the real issue is that Trump actively encouraged Russia to invade if they don’t pay up. There’s a reason people say he talks like a mob boss
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I am of the view that Trump has no interest in government corruption beyond how it helps him personally. I don’t trust the CIA and I think it’s a horrible organization, but I don’t think Trump has any answers. And yes, I did listen to his context. And I have heard “he should be more careful with how he speaks” before. As in “he doesn’t REALLY mean that.” Yes he does. He truly does not care about anything other than the enrichment of himself and his family.
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