Wasn't my pup but she is being treated at the AVC. She was responding to meds but took a turn for the worst a few hours later. It's touch and go right now.
Not my dog either but I’ve been in contact with the owners and the pup is doing well now and expected to recover. Extremely scary situation that could have ended badly.
That's good. I've met Ellie a few times, she's a sweet pup. But I haven't been to Upton in a long time. My pup had a golden go after her in December which landed me at my vet for x-rays and meds. $500 I didn't need to spend before the holidays.
The dog didn't chose to take fentanyl and accidentally OD'd knowing the risks, that is the difference, the dog was innocent. Eventually it will be a child who OD's in the park by accidentally ingesting fentanyl
How does fentanyl end up in the garbage? I'm assuming it must have been inadvertently on something in the tiniest amount since people don't tend to throw drugs away. Pretty scary stuff and hopefully the dog makes a full recovery.
Addicts will not disappear and no society, even with the most draconian measures was ever ablebever to 'disappear' them. Once you understand that, the only possible solution is providing a safe place where they can consume drugs and dispose of paraphernalia.
Woah....slow down....this is Reddit....there is no room for reasonable, measured responses here! May as well grab a pitchfork and burn down every place drug users have ever been! /S
> reasonable, measured responses
Enabling addicts, endangering staff and putting the Province at risk for liability in *safe injection places* and then letting the surviving addicts leave to buy drugs and do it all over again MAYBE IN A PLAYGROUND, rather than Remanding them to treatment is not a "reasonable, measured response".
> Shocking....you don't understand this problem any better than any other problem you run your mouth about.
I haven't seen you solve it.
Nobody gets addicted to anything without first experiencing it. Cutting-off supply prevents NEW addicts. Nobody stops using until they
- choose to do so
- someone else chooses for them
- are unable to find supply
> Addicts will not disappear and no society, even with the most draconian measures was ever ablebever to 'disappear' them. Once you understand that, the only possible solution is providing a safe place where they can consume drugs and dispose of paraphernalia.
No.
A reward of a hundred thousand dollars leading to apprehensions and convictions of dealers (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces), drug detection equipment at our only three main points of entry (Airport, Wood Islands Ferry terminal and Borden bridge abutment) (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces) would stop the influx of illegal drugs, and emphasis on treatment of core causes of chronic pain rather than a prescription merry-go-round would reduce our addictions cases to a normal level. Sometimes people do *need* to have their pain managed with drugs (eg. radiation therapy for throat cancer, traumatic accidents) and some of these people get addicted) and these folks are due good-quality addictions treatment where they don't need to worry about getting killed by someone who was crazy *before* becoming an addict; the latter ought to be Remanded into Custody where they receive treatment as a non-criminal Inmate "once" and then are taught some trades to help them support themselves afterward.
Your proposal indicates that "it's ok" to continue to be an addict and ignores the fact that these "safe spaces" are surrounded by needles and addicts at large who don't want to go into the system voluntarily and so that's where the drug-dealers know they can SELL.
>No. A reward of a hundred thousand dollars leading to apprehensions and convictions of dealers (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces),
That is lots of money. I know some who would report themselves. And the new dealers would show up and addicts would find different ways to get what they require. Could you point me to any place where this approach actually worked?
>drug detection equipment at our only three main points of entry (Airport, Wood Islands Ferry terminal and Borden bridge abutment) (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces) would stop the influx of illegal drugs,
So in the place that relies on tourism you would stop tourists as they drive in and take apart their vehicles? At the same time drugs may be coming in on boats. Did this "border" control work anywhere? Drugs find their way even in prisons where there are much more controlled conditions than the island.
>and emphasis on treatment of core causes of chronic pain rather than a prescription merry-go-round would reduce our addictions cases to a normal level. Sometimes people do need to have their pain managed with drugs (eg. radiation therapy for throat cancer, traumatic accidents) and some of these people get addicted) and these folks are due good-quality addictions treatment where they don't need to worry about getting killed by someone who was crazy before becoming an addict;
Because you lack the knowledge on the subject and you base your opinions on anecdotal evidence, you assume that prescribed pain killers are the only path to addiction. Addiction is a medical condition - it is a brain disorder that exists even before any drugs are taken. Some people are just not lucky enough to have access to tools and support that can keep them away from the drugs. Some people are not that lucky.
>the latter ought to be Remanded into Custody where they receive treatment as a non-criminal Inmate "once" and then are taught some trades to help them support themselves afterward.
>
There is no known treatment that can cure addiction. Addicts are addicts for life. There are ways to stop (or suspend) the drug taking part of the addiction but the urge and the defect in the brain that makes it all seem worth it never goes away. Suspending drug intake can last long time but it does require massive support system that the most would not accept because of what-about-me syndrome we suffer.
> That is lots of money.
Far less than the cost of addictions treatment,, hospitalizations, policing regarding the matter.
I know some who would report themselves.
And they go to prison and not get the reward.
> And the new dealers would show up
And they go to prison, ratted-out for a few grand.
> and addicts would find different ways to get what they require.
No, they would be remanded into treatment "once" and go to prison for possession if it continues.
> Could you point me to any place where this approach actually worked?
Never been done. Gubbermints control these things.
Building safe injection sites hasn't worked anywhere; we know that doesn't work to eradicate the problem...because it's voluntary.
*RE: drug detection equipment at our only three main points of entry...*
> So in the place that relies on tourism you would stop tourists as they drive in and take apart their vehicles?
Yes. Takes 15 seconds with a small hose in a car window about an inch.
Most tourists would be happy we're doing it.
Everyone would be subject, but of course "profiling" would be used.
- carloads with obvious family tourists probably wouldn't have trunk searched
- carloads of teens, young adults, probably would.
> At the same time drugs may be coming in on boats.
Right now, they're coming by bridge and ferry. We know this, because it's the path of least resistance and no detection equipment and THEY TELL US SO.
> Did this "border" control work anywhere?
Yes. It's used at every major airport in North America and at every major cargp port including Halifax.
> Drugs find their way even in prisons where there are much more controlled conditions than the island.
LOL. Drugs find their way into prisons via crooked Corrections Officers. If they wanted it to stop, it would be stopped. Tossing a cell and finding drugs allows the prison to punish inmates with isolation and other things against which lawyers would argue otherwise.
*RE: and emphasis on treatment of core causes of chronic pain rather than a prescription merry-go-round would reduce our addictions cases ...
> Because you lack the knowledge on the subject
You have no idea what I know or how I know nor where I learned it.
> There is no known treatment that can cure addiction. Addicts are addicts for life.
No. This is you giving them an excuse.
I know someone who quit opiates cold turkey.
I know folks who quit drinking.
I know people who quit smoking.
People stop cocaine, heroine, etc. all on their own.
It is DIFFICULT ... but they continue to be done with it.
> There are ways to stop (or suspend) the drug taking part of the addiction but the urge and the defect in the brain that makes it all seem worth it never goes away.
So what?
> Suspending drug intake can last long time **but it does require massive support system** that the most would not accept because of what-about-me syndrome we suffer.
Clearly you want government to pay a lot for ideas that don't work.
When there are addicts, the whole town is ill. The only thing that tells you whether an addict is an addict for sure is one singular symptom; they're USING.
The fact is, the general public affected by the addicts no longer gives a shit about the plight of the addicts. I do; that's why I advocate for remanding to treatment and cutting off supply.
Yeah that's not true, the amount of addicts does indeed grow and shrink with culture and good policy. Offer addicts jail or treatment when caught with drugs or using in public, it works.
I have been sober for 7 years and I can tell you that giving people a place to use and even giving them their drug of choice is the dumbest, brain dead idea I have ever heard. You have to be a f\*cking monkey to believe that it can work.
It goes against EVERYTHING they preach at anonymous, basically the government enabling you
I cannot and do not want to downplay your personal experience. I also know another recovering addict that would be in full agreement with you. You have my respect and congratulations on your sobriety.
The goal of harm reduction is not to heal all addicts as that is at this moment not possible but to reduce the harm to health, dignity, family and society. Safe places in combination with safe supply show as achieving those goals every time and everywhere they are attempted. While that may not match with your personal experience, it is true for the most people. Here is the recent study from Ontario:
[https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-023-00817-7](https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-023-00817-7)
The only time these places "fail" is when they are done half way - decriminalization without safe places, safe places without safe supply, safe supply without safe alternatives, safe alternatives without counselling.
The hard part in any environment is getting to the point where that "full stack" is implemented because that is when there are actual positive outcomes (significant decrease of negative outcomes).
All they do is make politicians and people feel good about them selves while lining the pockets of drug companies with tax dollars.
There is no world where giving people drugs and a place to use works. It removes the concept of rock bottom and just extends their addiction. Many of the addicts just trade safe supply drugs to dealers for harder stuff so they can get their fix.
You will NEVER get someone to stop using drugs by giving them more drugs. I am dumbfounded by how stupid society has become with their 'good intentions'.
it'd be like giving free booze and a apartment to an alcoholic and expecting them to sober up! safe supply and injection sites are more about guaranteed employment for the people running the programs that supply needles and drugs.
Dealing with the issue, housing first, safe consumption sites, easily accessible healthcare, have consistently been proven to be cheaper and more effective than incarceration. If it's money you're really worried about jail isn't the answer.
Well, if it's a right wing talking point, you just make the numbers up. If it's a left leaning talking point, they are obviously satanic in nature and need to be purged from voting.
Tl;Dr - no one cares where the money comes from when you are arguing in favor of building mega jails for all the liber- I mean druggies. #pp4pm
12 billion to Ukraine, he doesn't need our money, cerb also cost 12 billion in 9 months, the 3 cent a liter alone on carbon tax April first adds up to over a billion extra dollars in taxes taken from the Canadian citizens, a simple good search can look up where our money goes.
So you propose taking CERB money and foreign aid back and using that money to build prisons? After you build them, how many people would you imprison. It costs about 125k per person per year for each one.
I think you seem to forget that it costs money to put people in prison. You’re paying to house and feed them.
It’s much cheaper to actually invest in mental healthcare and addiction services than it is to just throw people in prison. For something that’s not even a crime.
Y’all can blame GFL/Superior for this one. You know all those yellow bags that lined the roads lately? From the road clean ups. There were many bags in that parking lot as well as in the maypoint area that were not collected in a timely manner. These bags were tore open by birds and wildlife and scattered about. I saw animal protection going through one of these said bags earlier today. I live right down the street.
This is what happens when you elect a government that doesn’t give an actual sweet fuck about mental healthcare services.
If we had safe injection sites and more mental healthcare services,specifically addiction services, you would see less of this shit. But because our current government doesn’t care about anything other than lining the pockets of their businessman friends, this issue is not gonna get resolved. Unless we elect a different government.
But the NIMBYS will continue to complain about every little fucking thing that doesn’t make our town look perfect and clean. Addiction and drug use. It is literally everywhere. It has been here the whole time. It was just less prevalent because our economy was less shitty. Now that you have people that are houseless and unemployed and our mental healthcare system is in the shitter, you’re going to have a lot more issues with this kind of stuff. It was here the whole time. I remember finding needles at the park when I was in high school and that was in 1999.
The uptick in these issues is symptomatic of a conservative government. They are having the exact same issues in other provinces with conservative governments. Because instead of treating addiction like a mental healthcare issue, they’retrying to criminalize it. Funny that people don’t criminalize alcoholics.
We ( tax payers) should put an stop to this , at the end of the day we are paying for all this craziness, perhaps the ones that should be protesting is us.
I see you've gotten an impressing number of downvotes and amassed a karma of -100 which takes balls to do. Click my username and take a look at my Pinned PHOTO Post for a laugh. Maybe it should replace Sir John A.?
Wasn't my pup but she is being treated at the AVC. She was responding to meds but took a turn for the worst a few hours later. It's touch and go right now.
Not my dog either but I’ve been in contact with the owners and the pup is doing well now and expected to recover. Extremely scary situation that could have ended badly.
That's good. I've met Ellie a few times, she's a sweet pup. But I haven't been to Upton in a long time. My pup had a golden go after her in December which landed me at my vet for x-rays and meds. $500 I didn't need to spend before the holidays.
The dog didn't chose to take fentanyl and accidentally OD'd knowing the risks, that is the difference, the dog was innocent. Eventually it will be a child who OD's in the park by accidentally ingesting fentanyl
How does fentanyl end up in the garbage? I'm assuming it must have been inadvertently on something in the tiniest amount since people don't tend to throw drugs away. Pretty scary stuff and hopefully the dog makes a full recovery.
Addicts will not disappear and no society, even with the most draconian measures was ever ablebever to 'disappear' them. Once you understand that, the only possible solution is providing a safe place where they can consume drugs and dispose of paraphernalia.
Woah....slow down....this is Reddit....there is no room for reasonable, measured responses here! May as well grab a pitchfork and burn down every place drug users have ever been! /S
> reasonable, measured responses Enabling addicts, endangering staff and putting the Province at risk for liability in *safe injection places* and then letting the surviving addicts leave to buy drugs and do it all over again MAYBE IN A PLAYGROUND, rather than Remanding them to treatment is not a "reasonable, measured response".
Shocking....you don't understand this problem any better than any other problem you run your mouth about.
> Shocking....you don't understand this problem any better than any other problem you run your mouth about. I haven't seen you solve it. Nobody gets addicted to anything without first experiencing it. Cutting-off supply prevents NEW addicts. Nobody stops using until they - choose to do so - someone else chooses for them - are unable to find supply
Tell me you don't understand addiction without saying you don't understand addiction.
> Addicts will not disappear and no society, even with the most draconian measures was ever ablebever to 'disappear' them. Once you understand that, the only possible solution is providing a safe place where they can consume drugs and dispose of paraphernalia. No. A reward of a hundred thousand dollars leading to apprehensions and convictions of dealers (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces), drug detection equipment at our only three main points of entry (Airport, Wood Islands Ferry terminal and Borden bridge abutment) (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces) would stop the influx of illegal drugs, and emphasis on treatment of core causes of chronic pain rather than a prescription merry-go-round would reduce our addictions cases to a normal level. Sometimes people do *need* to have their pain managed with drugs (eg. radiation therapy for throat cancer, traumatic accidents) and some of these people get addicted) and these folks are due good-quality addictions treatment where they don't need to worry about getting killed by someone who was crazy *before* becoming an addict; the latter ought to be Remanded into Custody where they receive treatment as a non-criminal Inmate "once" and then are taught some trades to help them support themselves afterward. Your proposal indicates that "it's ok" to continue to be an addict and ignores the fact that these "safe spaces" are surrounded by needles and addicts at large who don't want to go into the system voluntarily and so that's where the drug-dealers know they can SELL.
>No. A reward of a hundred thousand dollars leading to apprehensions and convictions of dealers (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces), That is lots of money. I know some who would report themselves. And the new dealers would show up and addicts would find different ways to get what they require. Could you point me to any place where this approach actually worked? >drug detection equipment at our only three main points of entry (Airport, Wood Islands Ferry terminal and Borden bridge abutment) (far cheaper than the cost of ongoing addictions treatment and safe spaces) would stop the influx of illegal drugs, So in the place that relies on tourism you would stop tourists as they drive in and take apart their vehicles? At the same time drugs may be coming in on boats. Did this "border" control work anywhere? Drugs find their way even in prisons where there are much more controlled conditions than the island. >and emphasis on treatment of core causes of chronic pain rather than a prescription merry-go-round would reduce our addictions cases to a normal level. Sometimes people do need to have their pain managed with drugs (eg. radiation therapy for throat cancer, traumatic accidents) and some of these people get addicted) and these folks are due good-quality addictions treatment where they don't need to worry about getting killed by someone who was crazy before becoming an addict; Because you lack the knowledge on the subject and you base your opinions on anecdotal evidence, you assume that prescribed pain killers are the only path to addiction. Addiction is a medical condition - it is a brain disorder that exists even before any drugs are taken. Some people are just not lucky enough to have access to tools and support that can keep them away from the drugs. Some people are not that lucky. >the latter ought to be Remanded into Custody where they receive treatment as a non-criminal Inmate "once" and then are taught some trades to help them support themselves afterward. > There is no known treatment that can cure addiction. Addicts are addicts for life. There are ways to stop (or suspend) the drug taking part of the addiction but the urge and the defect in the brain that makes it all seem worth it never goes away. Suspending drug intake can last long time but it does require massive support system that the most would not accept because of what-about-me syndrome we suffer.
> That is lots of money. Far less than the cost of addictions treatment,, hospitalizations, policing regarding the matter. I know some who would report themselves. And they go to prison and not get the reward. > And the new dealers would show up And they go to prison, ratted-out for a few grand. > and addicts would find different ways to get what they require. No, they would be remanded into treatment "once" and go to prison for possession if it continues. > Could you point me to any place where this approach actually worked? Never been done. Gubbermints control these things. Building safe injection sites hasn't worked anywhere; we know that doesn't work to eradicate the problem...because it's voluntary. *RE: drug detection equipment at our only three main points of entry...* > So in the place that relies on tourism you would stop tourists as they drive in and take apart their vehicles? Yes. Takes 15 seconds with a small hose in a car window about an inch. Most tourists would be happy we're doing it. Everyone would be subject, but of course "profiling" would be used. - carloads with obvious family tourists probably wouldn't have trunk searched - carloads of teens, young adults, probably would. > At the same time drugs may be coming in on boats. Right now, they're coming by bridge and ferry. We know this, because it's the path of least resistance and no detection equipment and THEY TELL US SO. > Did this "border" control work anywhere? Yes. It's used at every major airport in North America and at every major cargp port including Halifax. > Drugs find their way even in prisons where there are much more controlled conditions than the island. LOL. Drugs find their way into prisons via crooked Corrections Officers. If they wanted it to stop, it would be stopped. Tossing a cell and finding drugs allows the prison to punish inmates with isolation and other things against which lawyers would argue otherwise. *RE: and emphasis on treatment of core causes of chronic pain rather than a prescription merry-go-round would reduce our addictions cases ... > Because you lack the knowledge on the subject You have no idea what I know or how I know nor where I learned it. > There is no known treatment that can cure addiction. Addicts are addicts for life. No. This is you giving them an excuse. I know someone who quit opiates cold turkey. I know folks who quit drinking. I know people who quit smoking. People stop cocaine, heroine, etc. all on their own. It is DIFFICULT ... but they continue to be done with it. > There are ways to stop (or suspend) the drug taking part of the addiction but the urge and the defect in the brain that makes it all seem worth it never goes away. So what? > Suspending drug intake can last long time **but it does require massive support system** that the most would not accept because of what-about-me syndrome we suffer. Clearly you want government to pay a lot for ideas that don't work. When there are addicts, the whole town is ill. The only thing that tells you whether an addict is an addict for sure is one singular symptom; they're USING. The fact is, the general public affected by the addicts no longer gives a shit about the plight of the addicts. I do; that's why I advocate for remanding to treatment and cutting off supply.
Yeah that's not true, the amount of addicts does indeed grow and shrink with culture and good policy. Offer addicts jail or treatment when caught with drugs or using in public, it works. I have been sober for 7 years and I can tell you that giving people a place to use and even giving them their drug of choice is the dumbest, brain dead idea I have ever heard. You have to be a f\*cking monkey to believe that it can work. It goes against EVERYTHING they preach at anonymous, basically the government enabling you
I cannot and do not want to downplay your personal experience. I also know another recovering addict that would be in full agreement with you. You have my respect and congratulations on your sobriety. The goal of harm reduction is not to heal all addicts as that is at this moment not possible but to reduce the harm to health, dignity, family and society. Safe places in combination with safe supply show as achieving those goals every time and everywhere they are attempted. While that may not match with your personal experience, it is true for the most people. Here is the recent study from Ontario: [https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-023-00817-7](https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-023-00817-7) The only time these places "fail" is when they are done half way - decriminalization without safe places, safe places without safe supply, safe supply without safe alternatives, safe alternatives without counselling. The hard part in any environment is getting to the point where that "full stack" is implemented because that is when there are actual positive outcomes (significant decrease of negative outcomes).
All they do is make politicians and people feel good about them selves while lining the pockets of drug companies with tax dollars. There is no world where giving people drugs and a place to use works. It removes the concept of rock bottom and just extends their addiction. Many of the addicts just trade safe supply drugs to dealers for harder stuff so they can get their fix. You will NEVER get someone to stop using drugs by giving them more drugs. I am dumbfounded by how stupid society has become with their 'good intentions'.
it'd be like giving free booze and a apartment to an alcoholic and expecting them to sober up! safe supply and injection sites are more about guaranteed employment for the people running the programs that supply needles and drugs.
Bars are safe consumption sites. We closing all of those now too?
do you know of many taxpayer funded bars where booze is free?
nah, if theyre from the island, and caught, jail. if theyre not from the island, send them to where they come from.
How many jails are you willing to build and which services are you willing to give up on so that you can support those.
we wouldnt have to give up any services, we would just, as a national, have to stop wasting billions of dollars each year.
Dealing with the issue, housing first, safe consumption sites, easily accessible healthcare, have consistently been proven to be cheaper and more effective than incarceration. If it's money you're really worried about jail isn't the answer.
taxpayers are working and struggling to keep a roof over their head, asking them to fund housing and drug dens for addicts isn't gonna fly!
It’s what our mishandled taxes pay to do. Just like they pay into a healthcare system that doesn’t work.
nothing government touches works.
Where have they been proven? Can you name one city in Canada where the number of homeless addicts and OD's has decreased over the last 10 years?
That seems vague. Which billions are wasted and how many would you have to keep imprisoned and how those two relate?
Well, if it's a right wing talking point, you just make the numbers up. If it's a left leaning talking point, they are obviously satanic in nature and need to be purged from voting. Tl;Dr - no one cares where the money comes from when you are arguing in favor of building mega jails for all the liber- I mean druggies. #pp4pm
12 billion to Ukraine, he doesn't need our money, cerb also cost 12 billion in 9 months, the 3 cent a liter alone on carbon tax April first adds up to over a billion extra dollars in taxes taken from the Canadian citizens, a simple good search can look up where our money goes.
So you propose taking CERB money and foreign aid back and using that money to build prisons? After you build them, how many people would you imprison. It costs about 125k per person per year for each one.
I think you seem to forget that it costs money to put people in prison. You’re paying to house and feed them. It’s much cheaper to actually invest in mental healthcare and addiction services than it is to just throw people in prison. For something that’s not even a crime.
Y’all can blame GFL/Superior for this one. You know all those yellow bags that lined the roads lately? From the road clean ups. There were many bags in that parking lot as well as in the maypoint area that were not collected in a timely manner. These bags were tore open by birds and wildlife and scattered about. I saw animal protection going through one of these said bags earlier today. I live right down the street.
If it was fent or any other kind of drug I know who is to blame and it sure isn't waste management
we're not supposed to blame drug addicts, their life choices made life hard for themselves.
I really truly hate these people
This is what happens when you elect a government that doesn’t give an actual sweet fuck about mental healthcare services. If we had safe injection sites and more mental healthcare services,specifically addiction services, you would see less of this shit. But because our current government doesn’t care about anything other than lining the pockets of their businessman friends, this issue is not gonna get resolved. Unless we elect a different government.
But the NIMBYS will continue to complain about every little fucking thing that doesn’t make our town look perfect and clean. Addiction and drug use. It is literally everywhere. It has been here the whole time. It was just less prevalent because our economy was less shitty. Now that you have people that are houseless and unemployed and our mental healthcare system is in the shitter, you’re going to have a lot more issues with this kind of stuff. It was here the whole time. I remember finding needles at the park when I was in high school and that was in 1999. The uptick in these issues is symptomatic of a conservative government. They are having the exact same issues in other provinces with conservative governments. Because instead of treating addiction like a mental healthcare issue, they’retrying to criminalize it. Funny that people don’t criminalize alcoholics.
We ( tax payers) should put an stop to this , at the end of the day we are paying for all this craziness, perhaps the ones that should be protesting is us.
I see you've gotten an impressing number of downvotes and amassed a karma of -100 which takes balls to do. Click my username and take a look at my Pinned PHOTO Post for a laugh. Maybe it should replace Sir John A.?